Full Comment - A trans person, a Christian and a feminist walk into a comedy bar

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00:00:48.780 Hi, I'm Anthony Fury.

00:00:50.120 Thanks so much for joining us for the latest episode of Full Comment.

00:00:52.740 I am so excited about today's episode.

00:00:55.240 It's all about comedy.

00:00:56.700 There's a lot going on in the comedy world today that's making headlines,

00:00:59.240 and Mark Breslin, legendary Canadian comedy figure, is one of the best people to weigh

00:01:04.080 in on it all.

00:01:05.240 No stones unturned.

00:01:06.600 We're going to talk about everything.

00:01:08.300 Breslin is the co-founder of the Yuck Yucks chain of comedy clubs and has helped launch

00:01:11.920 the careers of some of the top comedy figures in the English-speaking world.

00:01:15.520 Very pleased to welcome him to the podcast.

00:01:17.380 Mark, hello.

00:01:19.180 Hello to you, too.

00:01:20.380 Great to have you on.

00:01:21.220 Thanks so much for joining us.

00:01:22.900 Well, maybe you should say that at the end of the podcast.

00:01:26.040 I was reading about Yuck Yucks in 1976, the year you co-founded that, 45 years ago.

00:01:32.940 Wow.

00:01:33.160 Hats off to you, sir.

00:01:34.520 Thank you.

00:01:34.980 Well, I was four, but I was precocious.

00:01:38.860 1976.

00:01:39.480 I think a lot of things that maybe we'll talk about on this podcast is maybe how things

00:01:43.800 have changed, you know, in the past 45 years.

00:01:46.820 I mean, I assume it's fair to say there's been a lot of things changing.

00:01:51.160 There's been a lot of things change, but, you know, I've always liked the French maxim,

00:01:56.320 the more things change, the more they are the same.

00:01:58.320 Um, some of the things that are happening now in terms of not the comedy itself, but

00:02:03.560 people's reaction to comedy, um, seems like it's completely new, but actually I'll, I'll,

00:02:08.600 I'll show you that, um, it's just things that have happened over the years in a different

00:02:13.700 guise, in a different face.

00:02:15.900 Right.

00:02:16.000 Oh, that'll be really interesting stuff to get into.

00:02:18.340 I know I wanted to talk to you about Norm Macdonald, and I thought there's no great place

00:02:22.920 to put it in the podcast, uh, to talk about the unfortunate news, of course, loss of such

00:02:27.420 a figure, uh, Norm Macdonald, you've spoken about him and his career.

00:02:30.780 I mean, what have you been saying when, when people ask you, what was Norm like?

00:02:37.320 Well, he was a sphinx-like creature.

00:02:40.160 Um, it didn't surprise me that he had cancer for nine years and told no one.

00:02:44.620 That was exactly in the way that Norm operated in so many ways.

00:02:49.640 His personal life was very much his personal life and he kept it personal.

00:02:54.040 Um, and if you think about it, um, of all the big stars that you can think of, Norm was

00:03:00.220 rarely in the tabloids, rarely did you hear about him, uh, and anything to do with his

00:03:06.280 personal life or anything about that.

00:03:08.480 Um, he loved his work.

00:03:10.860 His work was paramount.

00:03:12.240 And the reason that he didn't tell anybody about the cancer, um, I think is because he

00:03:17.080 didn't want that to get in the way of the way people appreciated his work.

00:03:21.780 Uh-huh.

00:03:22.040 Uh, because if, you know, if you see somebody and they're being funny and you know that

00:03:26.180 they're possibly dying, it completely changes the way that you look at, at their work.

00:03:32.060 And I think he didn't want that.

00:03:33.840 And that's why he kept it so quiet.

00:03:35.720 He loved his work.

00:03:37.260 He is, his work was paramount to him.

00:03:39.020 The most important thing in the world to him.

00:03:41.400 I know he had a child.

00:03:43.160 He had, um, an ex-wife and he was good to these people, but his work was his focus.

00:03:48.900 A lot of people going back and revisiting his work or discovering him, younger people for

00:03:53.320 the first time.

00:03:54.020 One of the things when I was reviewing a lot of his stuff online, uh, after he passed away

00:03:58.660 was his own show, lower production values, obviously not something that's getting like,

00:04:03.080 you know, top tier ratings on major networks, but you look at the guests and you go, wow.

00:04:07.280 I mean, he must've been such a comedian's comedian.

00:04:09.560 And I feel like, you know, you look at your phone, Norm MacDonald's calling, doesn't matter

00:04:13.460 who you are.

00:04:13.920 You answer it.

00:04:14.420 He says, come to my studio.

00:04:15.400 It seems like everybody said yes.

00:04:16.640 And they were there.

00:04:18.140 Yeah.

00:04:18.320 I mean, comedians loved him.

00:04:20.200 Comedians knew what he was doing.

00:04:22.100 Comedians knew that he was deceptively easy in his comedy, but actually what he was doing

00:04:27.040 was very, very difficult.

00:04:29.100 Um, he was honest to a fault and that's something that's really important for a comic, not all

00:04:36.520 comics, but it's important for most comics to be completely honest.

00:04:40.680 And he was honest.

00:04:42.280 Um, he got fired from Saturday night live for his blunt honesty and comedians love honesty.

00:04:50.100 And yet, is it becoming more difficult for that honesty, knowing that, I guess it seems

00:04:55.500 like people feel like they have to look over their shoulder a little bit more, but I guess

00:04:58.920 as you're saying it, that goes against the comics impulse.

00:05:00.920 Well, um, yeah, this, I mean, this opens up our, our whole world of discussion about what's

00:05:09.340 happening now and what has happened over the years.

00:05:11.600 And if you want to start with that now, that's, that's fine with me.

00:05:15.220 Yeah, for sure.

00:05:16.080 I, I mean, let's do it.

00:05:17.100 Cause I'm, I'm really interested in the idea that you've teased about how what's going

00:05:20.100 on is nothing new because we've gotten, well, let's start with the most high profile

00:05:24.340 one.

00:05:24.800 Dave Chappelle puts that special out on Netflix and no stone unturned.

00:05:28.680 He's making jokes about a whole lot of things that are out there in the news, transgender

00:05:32.220 issues.

00:05:33.080 Uh, you have people at Netflix, uh, do protests.

00:05:36.020 A couple of people resigned, uh, critics said, oh, it's the worst thing ever.

00:05:39.220 Don't watch it.

00:05:39.880 But then you look at the rotten tomatoes or whatever it is.

00:05:42.000 It's got a 94% rating.

00:05:43.640 I watched it.

00:05:44.480 I didn't laugh every second, every word, but who does for any act, but I liked it.

00:05:48.220 I thought it was a good act.

00:05:49.440 I thought it was good too.

00:05:50.760 And I had been defending it when it came out.

00:05:53.460 Um, but here's something that I think we have to have a little bit of historical perspective.

00:05:57.280 There have always, since I got into the business in 1976, there have always been forces, um,

00:06:04.120 that have tried to censor comics or tried to stop what they were saying or stop them from,

00:06:09.740 uh, performing.

00:06:10.860 And those forces have changed over the years.

00:06:14.020 Um, and what they were upset about has changed over the years.

00:06:17.540 When I first opened up, um, the big, big, big problem came, um, from the Christian right. 0.99

00:06:24.880 And all kinds of, uh, right-wing Christian organizations were appalled by what I was

00:06:29.860 doing, uh, because of two things.

00:06:32.600 One was the language.

00:06:33.980 The language itself was enough to make people, um, insanely angry because for the first time

00:06:40.460 on a Canadian stage, um, there was a show that had nothing but four letter words over

00:06:46.220 and over and over and over and over and over again.

00:06:48.780 Um, and that just drove these people crazy.

00:06:51.960 And the second thing that they hated, um, was that there was a kind of hidden agenda.

00:06:58.160 Um, I, I hesitate to call it an agenda because, um, you know, I've never been a political person.

00:07:04.000 I've always been more interested in the psychology of comedy than the politics of comedy.

00:07:08.840 Um, but, um, it's certainly, if you sat in, um, my club in 1978 and listened to what people

00:07:16.360 were talking about, it was a definite libertarian pro-pleasure, uh, agenda that most of them

00:07:22.820 were, uh, espousing because in that, in those days, Toronto was pretty uptight.

00:07:27.560 But if you listened to what the comics were saying in those days, it was kind of pro-abortion,

00:07:32.760 pro-sex, uh, pro-prostitution, uh, pro-drugs for sure.

00:07:39.920 Um, and that used to drive the, the Christian right crazy.

00:07:44.400 Now that eventually went away because we did not go away and things started to open up in

00:07:50.940 other areas.

00:07:51.480 And you started to hear the four letter words on the Sopranos at C on CTV at 10 o'clock

00:07:56.780 at night.

00:07:57.500 So the culture kind of moved a bit towards us, which took a lot of the steam out of any of

00:08:02.560 those arguments.

00:08:03.700 We were no longer the only people who were doing this kind of thing.

00:08:07.500 10 years later, roughly, I started bringing in, well, I was friends, very good friends.

00:08:12.720 In fact, I was roommates for a while with Sam Kinison.

00:08:15.820 And, um, I brought him in.

00:08:17.920 I used to, I started bringing him, bringing him into Yuck X, I'd say 1985 or so 1986.

00:08:25.400 And, um, he was well known enough by then that it created the ire of a lot of feminists.

00:08:31.740 And I had feminist pickets outside my club with signs that said, you know, feminists for 1.00

00:08:37.520 a healthy humor.

00:08:38.640 And I thought, hmm, they've obviously not read their Freud, um, and a Freud and healthy

00:08:45.600 humor. 0.79

00:08:45.980 That sounds as about as exciting as a sober orgy. 0.96

00:08:49.620 Um, so, um, they were, they were using a feminist agenda to say, you know, this guy 1.00

00:08:56.340 hates women. 0.99

00:08:57.080 Oh boy. 0.99

00:08:57.760 He did not hate women.

00:08:58.940 He worshiped women actually.

00:09:00.700 Uh, but, um, that was, that was happening then.

00:09:03.680 And they were trying to close him down, shut him down.

00:09:06.440 Now we go ahead to what's happening now.

00:09:09.260 Uh, and to the woke people and they want to create a better world and start with language.

00:09:15.820 Um, which if I were trying to create a better world, that's not really where I would start.

00:09:20.120 I would start with legislation and then maybe, maybe I would work my way down to something

00:09:26.520 as flimsy and as ephemeral as a comedy performance.

00:09:30.280 So it's not that new for me to experience this kind of, this kind of stuff.

00:09:35.820 One thing I find interesting about those comedy central roasts, I guess both the original

00:09:39.880 versions and then the new incarnations that Jeff Ross is doing is it's not one comedian

00:09:43.980 up there just saying their material out to the audience or, you know, out to the camera

00:09:47.420 recording, but it's everybody there ripping on each other.

00:09:50.980 And then you can kind of see that everybody takes their turn and it's all in good fun and

00:09:56.000 we can be friends afterwards.

00:09:57.240 I've always felt that's a nice dynamic to show people just chill.

00:10:00.500 Like, you know, we can do it and we can take the piss out of each other and it's okay.

00:10:04.500 Well, um, I would say that, um, if there's a problem with the ship, uh, can I use the

00:10:09.160 Chappelle, uh, show as this Chappelle special as an example?

00:10:12.480 Yeah.

00:10:13.400 Well, you know, to me, the problem with the Chappelle, uh, um, show that's Chappelle special

00:10:18.460 was not that Chappelle came on and said these things, um, making fun of trans people.

00:10:23.560 To me, the problem was the trans people don't have their own special. 1.00

00:10:27.240 To come back and make fun of Dave Chappelle.

00:10:29.260 Ah, um, it's an access issue.

00:10:31.640 And one thing I've always been proud of, at least in my own company is that long before,

00:10:36.460 um, you know, multiculturalism became this, uh, wildly important thing.

00:10:42.260 Yuck Yucks was always multicultural. 1.00

00:10:44.160 So, you know, in the early days you had a Greek comic, you had a Jewish comic, you had a

00:10:49.280 lesbian comic, you had a, um, a black comic. 0.93

00:10:52.140 And they would all take their turn in, uh, making fun of the others.

00:10:57.560 And so there was an equality.

00:11:00.000 Um, there was definitely an equality there.

00:11:02.020 And there was something else that I think was even more important is that there was an

00:11:05.300 acknowledgement that we lived in a multicultural society.

00:11:08.060 We weren't trying to pretend that the person living next to you wasn't black or the person 0.92

00:11:12.720 living next to you wasn't Jewish.

00:11:14.220 Um, you were articulating that and you didn't see that being articulated in many places, but

00:11:20.620 around the mid seventies, um, some things started to change in this city, at least.

00:11:24.800 And one of them was Yuck Yucks.

00:11:26.500 Another one was the Toronto sun and another one was city TV.

00:11:30.480 And all those, they, all those, these three institutions were critical in exposing people

00:11:36.580 to the idea that we now live in a culture that is not entirely white.

00:11:40.920 And that white culture is not threatening, but kind of boring.

00:11:46.380 Um, you know, so, um, those three things I think were important.

00:11:49.820 And all of those, of those three things, by the way, come from some different political

00:11:53.720 point of view.

00:11:54.620 You certainly wouldn't say that the Toronto sun was the same as a city TV and its politics,

00:11:59.200 but they were both committed to showing a different face of Toronto or a number of different

00:12:05.240 faces of Toronto and therefore the country.

00:12:07.380 You know, Mark, when you talk about inclusion and different voices, uh, there's lots of concerns

00:12:10.740 right now, for instance, that people are saying too much anti-Muslim, uh, comments online and

00:12:15.100 so forth.

00:12:15.540 And in general society.

00:12:16.520 And I noticed when I look at the lineup for Yuck Yucks, uh, you have a number of Muslim 1.00

00:12:19.720 gentlemen who are doing comedy acts right now.

00:12:21.580 And it maybe seems like, you know, is, is, is, is laughter the best revenge.

00:12:24.360 And, you know, these gentlemen are doing their own acts, poke and find it, I guess, maybe

00:12:27.460 their own culture and at other people's culture.

00:12:29.260 And they're just, they're, you know, they're getting into it.

00:12:30.800 They're going, here's, here's my space guys, you know, make room.

00:12:32.860 Um, well, um, you should know that eight weeks, you should know that eight weeks after, um,

00:12:38.320 9-11, I hosted the first, uh, Muslim comedy festival.

00:12:42.140 Um, and boy, did I get some, uh, did I get some blowback for that?

00:12:46.640 What was the blowback for, for providing a forum for, for Muslim comedians?

00:12:50.560 Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:12:51.340 That was from, if I have to use left versus right, that was from right-wing elements.

00:12:56.400 Um, strangely, um, I got the most positive response from the Jewish community who felt

00:13:03.000 I was building bridges.

00:13:05.060 So, um, but it was very controversial and we had to have extra security in case something

00:13:10.160 happened, nothing happened.

00:13:12.540 But I also had to provide a space upstairs of the club so that the, um, the audience

00:13:16.820 could go pray at a certain, at a certain time.

00:13:19.760 And I certainly never had to do that before or afterwards.

00:13:23.100 That's interesting.

00:13:23.920 I, one thing when I was, uh, thinking about all the different comedy scandals or questions

00:13:29.140 we've had recently, I remember about 20 years ago, right after 9-11, didn't you bring in

00:13:34.680 a policy in Yuck Yucks about no 9-11 jokes?

00:13:37.700 No, I never had any kind of a policy whatsoever on any kind of a joke.

00:13:42.520 The Yuck Yucks has always been an absolute free speech zone.

00:13:46.060 Um, I have never told a comic what to say in terms of content.

00:13:49.200 I may have advised the comic what to say in terms of making their act smoother.

00:13:54.280 Uh, you know, better.

00:13:56.040 Um, but it's never been, oh, you can't talk about that.

00:13:59.140 Never would I have done that.

00:14:00.180 In fact, as I remember, I was probably one of the worst people coming up.

00:14:04.680 I wasn't performing at the time, but I was writing all kinds of 9-11 jokes on 9-12.

00:14:08.800 My apologies.

00:14:09.640 Cause I knew there was a scandal in Canada where a comedian made 9-11 jokes a few days

00:14:13.920 later.

00:14:14.220 And the club owner, and I was Googling around the other day and I thought, was this Yuck

00:14:17.200 Yucks, you know, what was the situation?

00:14:19.140 So it would never have been me.

00:14:21.100 My, my sincere apologies.

00:14:22.880 That's, that's fine.

00:14:23.680 It happened somewhere in Canada.

00:14:25.240 I remember that.

00:14:25.760 I wanted to talk to, talk with you about the issue, you know, of the whole tragedy plus

00:14:29.040 comedy, uh, equals time thing.

00:14:30.960 Did that play out in 9-11?

00:14:32.120 How is that playing out in other things?

00:14:33.900 Cause there are some people, and again, I couldn't find the story, but there was at least

00:14:37.600 someone who thought 9-11, uh, uh, we can't talk about it.

00:14:41.800 You would not put any of those sort of rules there.

00:14:44.640 You'd let, you'd let the comic explore.

00:14:46.840 Nothing, nothing.

00:14:47.940 And I'll tell you why.

00:14:49.820 Um, it's because the comics want laughs.

00:14:52.680 The comics are there for the laughs.

00:14:54.580 And if they don't get the laughs, then they will change their material.

00:14:58.080 They'll move it around.

00:14:58.900 They'll retire a joke.

00:15:00.100 They won't try the joke again.

00:15:01.920 There is censorship in the comedy business.

00:15:04.100 And you know where the censorship should lie?

00:15:06.020 With the customer.

00:15:06.740 If the customer laughs, then it's okay.

00:15:09.900 If the customer doesn't laugh, well, then there's something wrong with the joke, or there's

00:15:14.160 something wrong with the timing of the joke.

00:15:16.060 And the comic is the person who has to, um, figure out how to, how to change it or drop

00:15:20.880 it or, or whatever.

00:15:21.700 But it should never be at the level of the club owner to do so.

00:15:25.540 I mean, I'll go further.

00:15:27.440 Um, some people actually think that I should have some kind of, I should be providing some

00:15:33.480 kind of moral leadership, um, when it comes to material of all kinds.

00:15:37.680 And let me tell you the last person you want to provide moral leadership as a nightclub 0.84

00:15:42.500 owner.

00:15:42.720 You know, it's interesting, the idea of testing out material.

00:15:49.400 And I've heard those stories about you go to a small club or you're at Yuck Yucks one

00:15:53.980 night and suddenly this surprise guest, this mega famous person comes on.

00:15:57.520 You're like, Oh my God, I didn't know this person was going to be here.

00:15:59.460 This is, you know, made my decade to see this.

00:16:01.880 And they're there because they want to try out the new material and they want the sort

00:16:04.640 of quote unquote safe space.

00:16:05.860 And then to your point, they'll find, okay, this didn't get a laugh.

00:16:08.220 I'm taking it off and so forth.

00:16:09.480 But I guess increasingly, uh, we have people who are there with the camera or the recording

00:16:14.720 and so forth.

00:16:15.500 The comedian is just test the material.

00:16:17.440 That one didn't work, but then we got to go viral with that.

00:16:21.380 We got to crucify them.

00:16:22.920 Well, I don't think it would happen at Yuck X because we have a policy of no cameras,

00:16:27.420 um, unless, uh, the comic gives the okay to me or to somebody who's running the room.

00:16:33.080 So, um, if we see somebody surrepetitiously, um, recording, we get them to stop.

00:16:39.660 And I heard that anecdote from a friend of mine who in 2019 went to see Louis CK at a

00:16:44.840 Yuck Yucks club.

00:16:45.920 So 2017 Louis CK, he lost many gigs after the stories came out that he improperly exposed

00:16:52.100 himself to women.

00:16:53.100 Several women alleged lost a lot, but I must ask you the question.

00:16:56.520 What is a way to properly expose yourself to women? 1.00

00:16:59.360 Because I've been trying to figure that out for a long time.

00:17:02.080 Fair enough.

00:17:03.400 I'm trying to do the, the neutral preamble as to how the story's been discussed, you

00:17:07.940 know, you know what I'm doing here, but you were one of the first North American comedy

00:17:12.860 club owners to say, Louis, come on down.

00:17:15.640 Here's a safe space for you to do.

00:17:17.500 I know you did a series of shows with him.

00:17:19.080 They were sold out.

00:17:20.120 I remember my friend got tickets.

00:17:21.440 I said, Oh, can I join you?

00:17:22.800 He said, no, I could only get one.

00:17:23.940 I said, okay.

00:17:24.700 And then I know the phones were not allowed to be recorded.

00:17:27.100 A lot of people, what's he going to say?

00:17:28.420 What's he going to do?

00:17:29.160 You brought him into great controversy, but it seems like the series of shows was also

00:17:33.900 a great success.

00:17:35.620 Yeah.

00:17:36.140 You've summed that up quite well.

00:17:37.700 I mean, I've, first of all, it was kind of a, it was an unusual decision to make.

00:17:43.220 No other club owner made that decision with a, with an exception of two or three in North

00:17:48.320 America.

00:17:48.760 Um, I believe I was the, oh no, the guy in Winnipeg who runs rumors, um, which is the

00:17:55.560 preeminent club in Winnipeg.

00:17:57.080 He brought him in as well.

00:17:58.320 Um, after I brought him in, uh, but not that long afterwards.

00:18:01.140 I think the booking was done around the same time I, I had, I've always been a big fan of

00:18:05.120 Louis CK, which made the decision a little easier.

00:18:07.460 It's kind of hard to, uh, it's much harder to fight for free speech when you think that

00:18:11.740 the person has no talent.

00:18:12.860 Uh, but he's worth fighting for.

00:18:15.240 I also thought, um, that, uh, the case was the, one of the weakest Me Too cases of all

00:18:21.120 because, um, he didn't touch them.

00:18:24.540 Um, he seduced them and he actually just seduced them using his, uh, importance, um, in a hotel

00:18:33.140 room.

00:18:33.720 Uh, he was on these, all of these events always happened when he was on, uh, when he was on

00:18:38.580 tour and he would have an opening act, the opening act would be a woman. 1.00

00:18:42.100 And he, he'd say, come on back to my, my hotel room.

00:18:45.440 Well, first of all, let me say, um, you know, you have to take some responsibility for your

00:18:49.840 actions.

00:18:50.500 And I would never, even as a man, I would never go to somebody's hotel room ever, unless 0.95

00:18:55.760 I intended to have sex with them.

00:18:57.720 Um, always, I tell this to everybody, just don't go to the hotel room. 0.99

00:19:02.100 That's what all night Starbucks are for.

00:19:03.780 If you want to keep talking, but anyway, he went there, um, and after, I don't know,

00:19:10.140 some, maybe some drinks, maybe some pot, whatever, um, everybody, the two people were relaxed

00:19:15.060 and he said, here's what I like to do.

00:19:16.780 And there'd be a series of reactions like no way I'm leaving or, Hey, that sounds hot

00:19:24.020 or, okay.

00:19:25.280 It's weird, but okay.

00:19:26.900 And then later on, much later on, they regretted their decision and believed that they did.

00:19:34.740 They made that decision based on him improperly using his position as an important comic to

00:19:42.180 influence their decision.

00:19:45.560 Do you think Louis CK will make a comeback such that he is comparable to the stature he

00:19:50.560 was before he lost these opportunities?

00:19:52.680 Well, maybe not only because, uh, comics always have a kind of, uh, hot zone in their careers.

00:20:00.140 And he was certainly having a hot zone in his careers.

00:20:02.540 He'll come back.

00:20:03.720 Um, but it won't, it may not be what, what it was.

00:20:08.020 They may not be as white hot.

00:20:09.700 Maybe the venues will be smaller.

00:20:11.840 Um, you know, he played the Air Canada Centre before he played Yuck Yucks.

00:20:16.140 Um, and the intervening scandal was the reason.

00:20:19.480 So I'm not saying he's going to go back to Yuck Yucks, but he's probably not going to

00:20:23.400 go back to the Air Canada Centre.

00:20:25.040 Maybe he's going to go to, you know, a mid-size, um, venue rather than an arena.

00:20:29.780 But something that might change that is his movie.

00:20:33.420 The movie that has never been distributed.

00:20:35.880 Right.

00:20:36.480 Which I saw.

00:20:38.480 Um, I was lucky to be one of the few people to see it.

00:20:41.480 I think it's called, I Love You, Daddy.

00:20:43.740 And, um, it deals with a lot of these issues and the issues of male lust that kind of consume

00:20:51.580 him in a very, very intelligent way.

00:20:55.460 And, um, I saw it at the, at TIFF and then the scandal hit like, I don't know, a month

00:21:02.480 and a half later.

00:21:03.380 And he bought back the, um, the distribution rights from whoever the distributor was and

00:21:09.540 he's keeping it in his pocket.

00:21:10.800 This may be his ticket back because it's such a brilliant movie, but it's also controversial.

00:21:17.060 Those things are so bizarre.

00:21:18.280 The sort of the, the hidden product that just is kind of ghosted away.

00:21:22.520 I'd really like to see the new Woody Allen film.

00:21:24.720 It's called Rifkin's Festival or something like that.

00:21:26.880 I've seen it.

00:21:27.500 Wallace, Sean G.

00:21:28.140 How did you see it?

00:21:29.120 I'm willing to part with good money to see it.

00:21:31.220 And you just can't, I can't get it.

00:21:32.880 I can't see it anywhere.

00:21:33.700 A friend of mine, um, is Chinese and she has access to all these shadow, Chinese, Chinese 1.00

00:21:40.460 shadow sites and gave me a link and I watched it.

00:21:44.000 And it's big in Europe.

00:21:44.640 It's making a lot of money in Europe, but nobody wants to screen it in North America

00:21:48.060 or even put it online where maybe I can find somewhere to pay $34.99 for it.

00:21:51.560 I don't know, but I haven't been able to find it yet.

00:21:53.400 How's the film?

00:21:54.740 It's good, but it's not as good as the one that came right before it, which also had

00:21:58.680 issues, um, uh, you can kind of find it on Amazon prime.

00:22:02.500 If you poke around, it's called a, uh, rainy day in New York.

00:22:06.320 Right.

00:22:06.620 And, um, it's, I think that's the better of the two movies that have not been widely

00:22:11.020 seen, but certainly Rifkin's, uh, festival is, is worth seeing and anything with Wallace

00:22:17.040 Sean is Wallace.

00:22:19.000 Sean is the, uh, as the star is always worth seeing.

00:22:21.660 He's so funny.

00:22:23.280 We'll be back with more full comment with Anthony Fury right after this.

00:22:28.680 Mark Breslin, I know a lot of young comedians, they come to you for mentorship.

00:22:31.740 You've helped to assist the careers of many people over the 45 years of Yuck Yuck's history.

00:22:36.560 I imagine mentoring young comedians now though, is a little different than it used to be in

00:22:40.800 terms of what we're talking about, political correctness and censorship.

00:22:44.020 And I'm sure a lot of them have, have some anxieties about all of this.

00:22:47.320 I mean, do they, do they express it to you and how do you respond to that?

00:22:50.400 Well, um, I once saw, um, Bernardo Bertolucci give a lecture and somebody asked him the question

00:22:59.540 of censorship and he said, censorship has never been a problem for me.

00:23:04.820 The problem is when an artist self-censors.

00:23:08.520 And I thought, you know, I'm that, that lecture must've been 50 years ago, but it all, it just

00:23:15.420 stayed with me, what he said.

00:23:16.980 And I think it's absolutely true.

00:23:19.680 Um, you also have to figure, I mean, when we're talking about censorship, um, of comedians

00:23:25.220 that, uh, different venues are what's appropriate for one venue may not be appropriate for another

00:23:30.520 venue.

00:23:30.740 And I'll give you an example.

00:23:32.080 Um, Yuck Yucks is a completely free speech zone.

00:23:34.960 You could say anything.

00:23:36.120 You will not get fired.

00:23:37.240 If the audience laughs, that's great.

00:23:39.420 If it's not enlightened, if they're not enlightened, uh, and they laugh at a very unenlightened

00:23:43.580 joke, well, I might sit at the back going, no, that's too bad.

00:23:47.120 They'd like that, but it's their prerogative to like it.

00:23:50.920 Um, but, um, at the coffee, at the water cooler, the next day, um, you're not supposed

00:23:58.680 to tell that joke because that's not an appropriate place for it.

00:24:02.040 The framing is different.

00:24:03.200 Plus you're not a comic.

00:24:04.500 You probably won't even tell it right.

00:24:05.700 And I can understand why you're not supposed to do that at the dinner, these jokes at the

00:24:10.060 dinner table.

00:24:11.080 Um, long ago, um, I used to go to Friday night dinners at a friend's house when I was a teenager

00:24:15.880 and I was kind of outrageous all the way through.

00:24:19.260 And I would do this outrageous, these outrageous riffs at the dinner table.

00:24:23.780 And my friend's mother, who was extremely proper, would say, Mark, there are certain

00:24:28.840 things we don't talk about at the dinner table.

00:24:31.320 And of course, I realized my entire career has been telling those things you're not supposed

00:24:36.560 to talk about at the dinner table.

00:24:38.760 So it's all about where you, where you tell it.

00:24:42.180 Yuck, yucks is a very lucky sort of situation for me because I'm playing on a small enough

00:24:47.620 scale that I really don't have to worry about, um, too much, uh, blowback from people.

00:24:53.720 Uh, first of all, everybody knows what yuck, yucks is all about.

00:24:57.920 If you went and you ask people in the street, yuck, yucks, uh, do they do, um, nice comedy

00:25:03.420 there?

00:25:03.760 They probably say, oh no, it's wild.

00:25:05.440 It's, they'll say anything.

00:25:06.880 Everybody knows this.

00:25:07.860 So the marketplace becomes self-selective and the people who come know what they're getting.

00:25:12.460 In fact, they want that.

00:25:14.160 Here's another little tidbit for you.

00:25:16.300 Uh, just for laughs has their traditional nasty show, uh, which isn't really all that

00:25:22.360 nasty, but it's a nasty show compared to the other stuff that they have, right?

00:25:26.680 That show sells out faster than any other show.

00:25:30.000 They do eight of them, um, in a midsize venue to start off the festival.

00:25:34.480 And that is the hottest ticket.

00:25:36.240 So this is kind of what people want many times, not everybody, but this is, there are, there

00:25:42.840 are venues now in this city and probably in other cities where, um, it is censored.

00:25:50.040 Um, at least it's not, at least the, the comics themselves censored.

00:25:53.720 They know that they're going to a room which, uh, attracts a very downtown quote unquote woke

00:25:59.640 audience, um, that is expecting a certain kind of, um, politeness in the comedy, uh, uh,

00:26:06.920 tastefulness.

00:26:07.600 They don't want to hurt anybody's feelings, that those things are really important to them

00:26:12.060 and that will attract that kind of audience and that will attract that kind of comic.

00:26:16.440 Yuck Yucks doesn't do that. 0.96

00:26:17.960 Um, when you get bigger than a comedy club, then you start getting into the problem of

00:26:22.440 you're probably existing with some level of corporate sponsorship.

00:26:26.320 You're probably existing with some level of governmental largesse and, um, you don't want

00:26:32.260 to threaten that because they're answerable to the people.

00:26:35.780 I'm not answerable to anybody except my customers.

00:26:38.960 How have you been able to do this for 45 years successfully?

00:26:41.320 It's, it's, it's amazing, really.

00:26:42.800 It's a triumph.

00:26:43.940 Well, thank you.

00:26:44.700 But part of it is that I'm not, I'm not too big.

00:26:47.840 If I got bigger, um, and you know, if I had a thousand seat venue, then I, I would need

00:26:53.700 all kinds of sponsorship and, um, you know, government assistance and the things that everybody

00:26:58.760 gets.

00:26:59.160 And once you do that, then, um, you know, you're under the threat of, of having that,

00:27:04.500 that stuff withdrawn.

00:27:05.880 Um, this is why Netflix took Louis CK's, uh, specials off.

00:27:10.700 They weren't, I, I assure you they did not, they were not personally offended by what,

00:27:15.980 what, what he had, had done.

00:27:18.200 They're worried about boycotts and they're worried about social media.

00:27:21.980 When I brought in Louis CK, I had some pretty negative social media, but incidentally it ran

00:27:27.440 about a hundred to one in favor of what I did.

00:27:29.660 But even if it hadn't, what could they do?

00:27:33.240 What could they do?

00:27:34.420 Speaking of business struggles, Mark COVID-19, the pandemic, the government, of course said

00:27:38.620 you got to shut down.

00:27:39.580 And a lot of us understood why back during that first wave.

00:27:42.320 And then there's a lot of disagreement as to whether or not things should have, uh, been

00:27:45.940 shut in subsequent waves.

00:27:47.520 When should they reopen?

00:27:48.300 And so on, uh, how was the shutdown for you at Yuck Yucks and, and how were you feeling?

00:27:53.060 How are the comics feeling?

00:27:53.900 How was the audience feeling about let's just get back in a room and, and, and laugh together?

00:27:57.620 Well, the past 18 months were among the most horrible of my life.

00:28:01.820 And I went to high school, so it was, it was pretty awful.

00:28:06.700 I mean, um, from a psychological and spiritual point of view, um, I guess you've read King

00:28:12.620 Lear, you know, what happens when a King loses his kingdom, it's not pretty.

00:28:16.900 And, um, I spent an awful lot of time in the house, just staring into space because I couldn't

00:28:21.620 do anything else.

00:28:22.480 It was a miserable, miserable, miserable time for me.

00:28:25.520 Um, and for the comics, they had, they lost their income and they, even maybe more important,

00:28:30.620 they lost their ability to connect with the world because comics, um, this is how they

00:28:36.920 connect with the world.

00:28:38.000 Many of them don't have conventional or traditional personal lives.

00:28:42.040 Um, they live for their comedy and for the lifestyle that goes with comedy and it's gone.

00:28:46.420 It's all gone.

00:28:47.080 Now it's come back and since they took away the, um, capacity restrictions, now, uh, things

00:28:54.400 feel like they're getting back to normal slowly, but nothing makes me happier than going to

00:28:59.220 my club on a Saturday night here in Toronto, um, and seeing 225 people sitting in the room

00:29:05.280 laughing their heads off.

00:29:07.080 A lot better than when the capacity limits were limited to 90 in a 300 seat room and you

00:29:13.040 had to space the tables out. 0.88

00:29:14.700 Well, you know, comedy, uh, works best when you jam people in, uh, because laughter is catching,

00:29:21.360 right?

00:29:22.140 Laugh and the world laughs with you.

00:29:23.660 Cry and you cry alone.

00:29:24.980 So, uh, it's, it's been so much better now.

00:29:28.740 We're open in all our clubs across the country.

00:29:31.040 Um, but we're not necessarily back to the levels of audience audiences that we were pre-pandemic

00:29:37.160 that will happen.

00:29:38.620 I figure in the next three, four months, maybe as people think, well, I guess I have to go

00:29:45.520 inside and it's cold out.

00:29:47.940 Um, you know, that's the problem they don't have in the Miami clubs. 0.86

00:29:52.100 So I want to get your thoughts on another issue that was in the news recently, a Quebec comedian

00:29:57.160 going all the way to the Supreme court to say, I can make jokes about whatever I want, offensive

00:30:02.160 stuff.

00:30:02.600 I can even make jokes about a disabled youth who is something of a celebrity in Quebec

00:30:06.960 culture.

00:30:07.880 Mike Ward had been making jokes.

00:30:09.360 This is 10 years ago about a young boy who had a disability, who would do a lot of, uh,

00:30:14.000 public singing at various events with high profile figures in front of the Pope.

00:30:17.820 And I guess he was held as a major figure in Francophone culture in Canada.

00:30:21.620 And Mike Ward said, I want to deflate some of these various characters.

00:30:24.980 This young man was among it.

00:30:25.960 Uh, his family took Mike Ward to the Quebec human rights tribunals.

00:30:29.540 They awarded, uh, him $40,000, him and his family in damages.

00:30:33.960 Mike Ward said, I don't want to pay that went to the court and the Supreme court did rule

00:30:37.760 recently.

00:30:38.360 Yeah.

00:30:38.480 You can make these offensive jokes, but it was close.

00:30:40.580 It was a close split decision.

00:30:42.780 What did you think about that?

00:30:44.300 Mark?

00:30:44.440 And what were folks in the comedy world saying?

00:30:46.780 Well, obviously everybody in the comedy world was pro Mike Ward, um, myself included.

00:30:52.060 I met with Mike, um, to offer my support, um, somewhere during this process.

00:30:57.680 Um, you know, the, it's an icky joke, um, because he's a kid, but the joke wasn't really about

00:31:05.000 him.

00:31:05.400 The joke was about fame and how fame touches people and how, how people react to people's

00:31:12.420 fame, perhaps incorrectly.

00:31:15.040 Um, and, uh, because Mike Ward happens to be quite wealthy, um, he's a wealthy comedian

00:31:21.040 because in Quebec, he is a mega star.

00:31:24.120 He could sell out Place des Arts, 2,800 seats, probably for a week.

00:31:29.360 That would not be unusual for Mike Ward.

00:31:32.200 Um, so he had enough money to be able to, um, shoulder the legal fees, um, to go all the

00:31:38.760 way through the Supreme court to get the Supreme court to say, well, you know, maybe what you

00:31:43.480 said was pretty ugly, but you still have the right to say it, which I think goes back to

00:31:47.980 Voltaire, doesn't it?

00:31:49.720 I may not agree with them about what the man says, but I defend his right to say it.

00:31:54.560 Where are these things headed?

00:31:56.160 Is there, because what you've said basically is these things shall pass too, because you

00:32:00.180 give examples from decades before.

00:32:02.060 I've also seen different cultural shifts.

00:32:04.180 It was interesting, uh, to read Seth Rogen kind of renouncing his earlier work.

00:32:09.260 And I was like, what's that about?

00:32:10.680 And we went and we, we rewatched super bad the other month, his sort of first big breakout

00:32:14.500 movie from 2007, man, that's a funny movie.

00:32:17.860 I think it's pretty much his best movie.

00:32:19.320 It's one of my favorite, a favorite movies of his.

00:32:21.940 It is.

00:32:22.280 It's so great.

00:32:23.140 He has renounced it though.

00:32:24.320 And maybe he's, I don't know.

00:32:25.800 Is he indicative of a sort of new culture of, I know he's not a standup or at least isn't

00:32:30.160 anymore.

00:32:30.500 Like what's, what's going on?

00:32:32.160 What's, what's the future of all of this?

00:32:33.820 Well, I'm not sure he really believes what he said.

00:32:36.240 I think he wants to work.

00:32:37.380 Um, it's really hard to get a movie going because somebody has to trust you enough to

00:32:41.380 give you, you know, $20 million or more, 20 million is on the low end.

00:32:45.700 And, um, you know, this is the mood that's in the, uh, in the air right now.

00:32:50.240 Um, so I'm not sure I, I necessarily believe him when he renounces it.

00:32:56.420 And that's such a strong word.

00:32:58.220 I mean, if anything, he could say, well, some of those jokes that we put in that movie,

00:33:02.600 not sure I would do those jokes now.

00:33:05.000 That would seem to be sort of a more balanced reaction.

00:33:09.920 But I mean, there are jokes I told in 1978 that I wouldn't tell now, right?

00:33:15.420 But by all means, go ahead.

00:33:16.440 You have the floor.

00:33:17.480 No, no, no.

00:33:18.080 I'm not going to tell those jokes, but there, there, there, it was an innocent time.

00:33:22.520 And, and, you know, the fact that people would get, uh, maybe get offended or hurt, um, didn't

00:33:29.680 really matter to me.

00:33:30.700 I mean, in some ways it's sort of even better, but we had, but the important thing was it

00:33:35.660 was, there was access and whatever I might've said, the next person could go on and completely

00:33:40.560 denounce it.

00:33:41.440 But I want to make one thing very clear and it's this, and this guides me.

00:33:46.600 This is my lodestar.

00:33:48.140 However, the censorship of comedians, of artists in general and comedians in specific, um, is

00:33:55.400 never, ever the answer.

00:33:58.620 Ever.

00:33:59.560 That's never the answer.

00:34:01.940 What might be the answer is a more, or what I believe is, is a good thing, is a more critical

00:34:08.640 reading of popular culture so that when you're, uh, ingesting it, that you don't just take it

00:34:15.620 as face value, that you maybe question it a little bit, um, that you wonder why people

00:34:20.240 are saying this or that.

00:34:21.640 And, and it leads to a discussion and the discussion is enlightening.

00:34:25.180 Uh, but shutting down the debate, I have no idea why anybody would want to do that.

00:34:30.760 These are artists.

00:34:31.840 They're exploring these spaces between the official version and the way people actually think and

00:34:38.200 behave.

00:34:39.860 Okay.

00:34:40.260 Hey, I'll get off my soapbox now.

00:34:42.080 No, it's a good soapbox.

00:34:43.220 It's good.

00:34:43.900 Uh, well, I have something, well, I have something else to contribute to you that I, I don't think

00:34:48.200 I've ever said publicly because, um, I've just started to, I've just started to formulate

00:34:54.180 this as an idea and the idea doesn't make me feel or look very good.

00:34:58.600 Um, and I'll, I'll show you why for the past 45 years, I have been telling anybody who will

00:35:04.520 listen, especially my family, um, that what I do is really significant.

00:35:08.660 It has all kinds of important, important, uh, values that I'm imparting to the general

00:35:15.100 public.

00:35:15.560 And, um, I look, I want a, an order of Canada because of this.

00:35:20.500 I'm, I'm really important.

00:35:22.280 Comedy is really important for this.

00:35:24.480 And now as I think about it, I'm starting to think the opposite, that comedy's value

00:35:30.160 is precisely in its ephemerality, that it doesn't change people's minds at all, that

00:35:37.400 people come into a comedy club, uh, with basically the attitudes and biases and prejudices that

00:35:44.600 they, they have, they watch a comic, the comic might take them on a journey away from what

00:35:51.020 they believe, but then nine minutes later, when the routine is over and another comic

00:35:56.580 starts, they've forgotten it already.

00:35:59.680 And they're back to what they originally believed.

00:36:02.580 Now, the reason I say this is because I've had this happen a number of times where comics

00:36:09.380 will come to me and they, they'll tell me they got a festival and on a festival, you

00:36:12.960 might have, you know, 10 comics on and a big venue at any given time.

00:36:16.720 This could be just for laughs.

00:36:17.600 This could be the Winnipeg festival.

00:36:18.780 This could be the Vancouver festival.

00:36:20.680 This could be any number of festivals.

00:36:22.660 So they, the festival will book a comic known for their wokeness.

00:36:26.800 The comic will get on stage.

00:36:29.000 They will do the most woke jokes imaginable and the audience will be going crazy.

00:36:34.180 They'll love it.

00:36:34.900 They'll be applauding.

00:36:35.840 They'll be laughing.

00:36:36.720 And the comic will be feeling amazing because not only is it there, are they making them

00:36:40.520 laugh, but they're also nudging them to a political and social position that they

00:36:46.060 believe in.

00:36:46.620 They walk off the stage feeling like they're 10 feet tall.

00:36:50.360 Then the next comic goes on.

00:36:52.540 The next comic has the exact opposite political and social view.

00:36:57.040 And they get huge laughs, applause breaks.

00:37:01.420 They're right with them.

00:37:03.220 Completely contradicting what the reaction to the first comic.

00:37:07.700 And the first comic says, what am I, what, what, what's going on here?

00:37:11.820 And the truth is it's comedy.

00:37:13.980 It's not really to be taken seriously.

00:37:16.300 It's a series of what ifs.

00:37:18.020 And if a comic is good, he can get you, he or she can get you to go with them on whatever

00:37:24.400 their beliefs might be.

00:37:26.700 And then it's over.

00:37:28.100 They go back to whatever positions they had when they walked in.

00:37:32.500 It's, it's ephemeral.

00:37:35.040 It's weightless.

00:37:36.520 And I hate to say this because it kind of undercuts my life's work, but I think it's true.

00:37:42.920 But we keep coming back.

00:37:45.660 Meaning?

00:37:46.560 The audience.

00:37:47.440 We keep going to those Netflix specials.

00:37:49.560 We keep going to Netflix.

00:37:50.540 It's permanently ephemeral.

00:37:53.660 Of course.

00:37:54.080 But we watch them, but we don't take, we don't take comics seriously.

00:37:58.140 You know, Woody Allen once said, as long as you're doing comedy, you'll never sit at the

00:38:01.820 grown-ups table.

00:38:03.300 And, uh, of course, that, that's, that's a quote that can come and bite him on the, on 1.00

00:38:09.580 the ass. 0.99

00:38:10.180 But, um, it's just not, it's, it's wonderfully not taken seriously. 0.99

00:38:16.440 It's just not that important.

00:38:18.340 It's, it's a trifle.

00:38:21.860 It's a distraction.

00:38:23.000 It's a distraction.

00:38:24.920 Who would you say, because you've got your finger on the pulse of the next big thing,

00:38:29.360 who do we take seriously in terms of who do we watch?

00:38:32.840 Who do we look for?

00:38:33.420 Who are you excited about right now these days?

00:38:35.320 Well, um, hard to say, hard to say, hard, hard to say.

00:38:40.260 I'm, I'm very excited about, of course, Canadian comedians because those are the ones I work

00:38:45.280 with directly.

00:38:46.040 Um, I, it's, uh, it's, it's a good opportunity for me to criticize Hannah Gadsby, though.

00:38:53.140 Go for it.

00:38:54.260 All right.

00:38:54.840 So I watched the, the special, the, the Nanette special, and I, there's two parts to it, really.

00:39:01.060 The first part is her, um, being funny and, um, she's reasonably funny, but then she goes

00:39:07.280 into her, um, rant against comedy and pretty much against male comics, and she raises a

00:39:15.000 fabulous issue.

00:39:16.080 But I have to tell you, I disagree with her conclusions.

00:39:19.660 Her fabulous issue that she raises, and so succinctly, is what is the worth of a fantastic

00:39:26.740 artist if that fantastic artist treats people horribly?

00:39:30.680 Which is more important, the work that they leave, or the people whose lives they lay waste

00:39:37.340 to?

00:39:38.040 And as, um, an example, she uses Picasso.

00:39:40.980 And Picasso's a good example, because Picasso, um...

00:39:44.580 No big feminist. 1.00

00:39:46.020 Glad he's not around for me, too.

00:39:47.720 He should be happy about that.

00:39:49.080 Yeah, yeah.

00:39:49.780 I mean, Picasso, um, had a, had a very, um, Picasso did not treat women well, let's just

00:39:57.360 say that, including the 17-year-old that eventually committed suicide, um, after, uh, having a long

00:40:04.080 affair with him, uh, uh, but he did do Guernica, and if you've stood in front of Guernica, you

00:40:10.980 just don't think of how badly he treated individual people.

00:40:15.160 What you think of is, this is the most moving picture against the horrors of war that I have

00:40:22.420 ever seen, and everyone should see this.

00:40:25.720 But to Hannah Gatsby, you should avoid it.

00:40:28.920 So, I, I love the fact that she brought this up, because this is an issue that comes up

00:40:33.280 again and again and again and again, and it comes up in Me Too comedy issues as well.

00:40:38.520 Um, and that is, sometimes, or quite often, horrible people make great art.

00:40:46.600 And it's very hard to find, in fact, people who, um, make great art that aren't horrible

00:40:52.580 on some level.

00:40:53.820 And I'm not sure what, exactly why, because I'm not a psychoanalyst, but, um, if you want

00:40:59.620 to be consistent and you think that, you know, um, Woody Allen went, uh, went after relationships

00:41:06.740 with girls who were just underage, well, you better not listen, you better throw out your 1.00

00:41:10.760 whole record collection, because you know, the Beatles did that too.

00:41:13.860 I assure you, the Beatles were having, um, affairs with girls in Hamburg that were way

00:41:18.260 underage.

00:41:19.140 Um, uh, Led Zeppelin, throw those records out as well.

00:41:22.220 Throw out the Rolling Stones.

00:41:23.520 They all did this.

00:41:25.240 And so, that's that.

00:41:26.660 There's, there's an entire category gone.

00:41:29.440 T.S. Eliot is my favorite, my favorite poet of all time.

00:41:33.120 He was also a notorious anti-Semite, and yet, and I'm Jewish, and yet, uh, a year can't

00:41:40.300 pass without me reading the, rereading The Wasteland and, and Prufrock and thinking that

00:41:46.320 this is genius.

00:41:47.420 So, I'm able to compartmentalize what a person's personal life is and what their personal beliefs

00:41:54.600 are, uh, from their actual work.

00:41:58.120 Uh, Hannah Gadsby is suggesting, no, you shouldn't do that.

00:42:01.320 So, um, uh, I, I don't know.

00:42:04.800 Somebody told me once they thought that men have it easier in terms of compartmentalization,

00:42:09.760 that that's kind of more of a male brain thing.

00:42:12.660 That may be true.

00:42:14.140 I don't know.

00:42:15.400 But I can do it, and I do it every day.

00:42:18.920 Every day.

00:42:21.260 You know, I've always thought we had it easy, the fact that Adolf Hitler, who was a painter, 0.86

00:42:25.080 wasn't that great of a painter.

00:42:26.820 Wouldn't it be rough if he was actually, like, the best painter of the 20th century?

00:42:30.080 And you're like, uh, how do we talk about this right now?

00:42:32.460 It would be very, it would be very difficult.

00:42:34.900 Um, and luckily John Wayne Gacy, um, you know, the serial murderer drew pictures of clowns.

00:42:40.920 Um, and you know that there are people who collect those pictures.

00:42:43.680 They're very much in demand.

00:42:45.720 Oh, that's interesting.

00:42:47.660 A little odd.

00:42:48.200 Yeah, they're very much in demand.

00:42:49.120 They, they fetch high prices.

00:42:51.620 Wow.

00:42:51.860 Not Warhol prices, but they, but five-figure prices.

00:42:55.700 I'm saving up for mine.

00:42:58.700 Mark, I know you give a lot of advice, as we said to, to comedians.

00:43:04.840 What advice would you give to audience members, to regular folks who are seeing these schisms,

00:43:13.080 or whatever you want to call it, in comedy, and they're saying, look, I just want to enjoy it.

00:43:18.160 I just want to have the laughs.

00:43:19.240 Well, first of all, if you're thinking of going out to a night, a night of comedy, the internet is a wonderful thing.

00:43:25.760 Um, you can research the comic that's being advertised, and I never understand why people don't.

00:43:30.740 Certainly, you wouldn't go to a, um, a Cineplex and say, what's playing?

00:43:34.720 Oh, okay, that looks, what's the next, what's the next showtime of whatever you have?

00:43:39.520 You would research what movie you want to see, and you would decide you like the people in it,

00:43:44.020 you like the, you like the director, you like what it's about.

00:43:47.280 So, so you should do the same thing with comedy.

00:43:49.440 I think people should be astute consumers, and it's easy to be an astute consumer these days.

00:43:54.440 The second thing is, um, I admit that one thing I've always wanted, um, was to make people less sensitive.

00:44:02.000 It's always been, um, a goal of mine, even before all of this Me Too thing started to happen.

00:44:07.800 Um, I was always bullied and picked on, and all these things when I was a kid,

00:44:12.460 because I'm really small, and I was Jewish in a non-Jewish environment.

00:44:16.340 Um, and I just got tougher, and there's almost nothing that can offend me now,

00:44:22.840 nothing that anybody could say to me that would ever offend me personally,

00:44:26.200 and nothing that anybody could say that it would offend me theoretically,

00:44:29.500 which is why I guess I'm the right person for my job.

00:44:32.960 But I would like to see people, um, not made of glass,

00:44:37.400 because it feels like they're made of glass, and they shatter much too easily.

00:44:42.440 The right person for the job. Mark Breslin, this has been a fantastic conversation.

00:44:48.520 Really informative stuff. Thanks so much for joining us today.

00:44:51.860 You're, you're welcome.

00:44:53.180 All the best.

00:44:54.400 Thanks.

00:44:54.720 Full Comment is a post-media podcast.

00:44:57.580 I'm Anthony Fury.

00:44:58.700 This episode was produced by Andre Proulx, with theme music by Bryce Hall.

00:45:02.680 Kevin Libin is the executive producer.

00:45:05.100 You can subscribe to Full Comment on Apple Podcasts, Google, Spotify, and Amazon Music.

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00:45:12.980 You can help us by giving us a rating or a review,

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00:45:16.480 Thanks for listening.

Full Comment - November 29, 2021

A trans person, a Christian and a feminist walk into a comedy bar

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