Canada is a criminal hotbed and the Mounties can’t handle it
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Summary
The Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) is one of Canada s most iconic institutions. It is both a local police force and a national police force, and it s one of the most respected institutions in the country. Gary Clement, an ex-RCMP officer and former Chief of Police, has long been a critic of the organization and says it needs to change.
Transcript
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The RCMP is a national treasure, an institution. It's beloved by Canadians. It's also a hot mess.
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Hello, welcome to the Full Comment Podcast. My name's Brian Lilly. Today we're going to look at
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one of Canada's foremost institutions, one of the symbols that people around the world recognize
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this country for, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. It is both a local police force and
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a national police force. But should it be that way? Is its structure impeding the ability of
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the RCMP to go after organized crime, white-collar criminals, the transnational mafia and triads that are
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moving drugs and other illicit materials through this country? Gary Clement is someone who knows
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an awful lot about this. He spent 34 years in policing, most of it with the Mounties. Now he
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is a staunch critic of the organization and says we all, as Canadians, have to figure out what we want
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from the RCMP. Gary Clement, thanks for the time. Thank you very much for having me, Brian.
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Before we get into how you think the RCMP needs to change the issues you've seen in your long
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career, let's establish a bit of your bona fides. You spent a couple of years with the RCMP? Was it
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one, two, 34? What was it? 30 years RCMP and four years Chief of Police.
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So my guess is that your career took you to different parts of the country. And one thing
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that I realized as I talked to people in different parts of the country is we all have a different
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experience of the RCMP. Where I am right now in Toronto, you don't see Mounties. Maybe at the
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airport. Do they have them at the airport? Ceremonial duties. In Ottawa, you see them on certain roads,
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not on others. You see them a lot for government work and ceremonial duties. But in much of the
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country, it's the local police, it's the provincial police. I know that's part of your issue with the
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entire system. But what is it? You know, explain how this is a multifaceted beast before we get into
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why it needs to change if we're going to crack down on things like organized crime. Because I think
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a lot of people don't have a full sense. They know what the Mounties are like around them,
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but not across the rest of the country. Yeah, happy to, Brian. And, you know, I was a proud
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member in the RCMP. I'm a proud ex-member. But I think what has been lost both by, I think,
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government and senior leaders in the RCMP that we've taken, it's become such a complex world that
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we all live in today. The RCMP still is trying to be all things to all people. And contract work is
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municipal and provincial policing in Ontario and Quebec. It's city police forces like Edmonton and
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Calgary. And so it's very capable, other police servers are very capable of carrying out those
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duties. The RCMP chose by contract to keep doing that. Unfortunately, what that has done is pitted
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federal policing against contract policing. And because the RCMP has contracts, they have to, to the extent
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possible, keep positions filled. So it's very easy to rob from Peter to pay Paul. So taking resources out of
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federal policing and putting them into contract has been something that's gone on since the formation of the RCMP.
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And federal policing would be the white collar crime, the organized crime, things like that.
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Correct. Narcotics, all of those things at an international level.
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And as a result of it, what has happened, there has been this tremendous erosion in federal policing.
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And I believe that is led to the situation that confronts society today. Alls we have to look at
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is that we've had over 300,000 deaths in fentanyl. And since 2021, all of that is precursor drugs coming
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out of China into Mexico to the cartels. And there's been a lack of enforcement at the transnational
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level. And so when you look at that, then you look at the totality of cybercrime and the complexity that
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that brings in. You look at terrorism today. And I'll give you an example that Canada is sadly a funder of
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Hamas. And people would say, oh, no, that can't be true. But it is because there's been various charities
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that continue to fund Hamas here in Canada. We need to.
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Well, and we've seen that through the Canada Revenue Agency stepping in at certain points and saying,
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Correct. But then where is the investigative side of this, Brian? And I use the example of building the,
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we've got FinTrack, which is, you know, is a financial intelligence agency, collecting all
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the financial data on money laundering. They disclose about 1,500 to 2,000 documents a year
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for investigation. Ask yourself how many have been investigated. And the answer is very few of them.
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So let's talk about this then, because, you know, look, I, Gary, in much of my writing and much of
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my broadcasting, I've been highly critical of, of the RCMP, not a frontline officers, but I think
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headquarters is a mess. I think that a lot of their white collar crime, like they've got this unit that
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is supposed to look into, you know, politically sensitive issues like the prime minister and SNC
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Lavalin. Well, they went almost four years without updating anyone. And then someone got a, an access
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to information request and said, oh, they're still investigating the RCMP. Let that sit out there
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for a whole day. Correct. That there's an active investigation into the prime minister who, I don't
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want to have to defend Justin Trudeau, but I had to because the RCMP screwed up. They did the same with
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Doug Ford in Ontario. Correct. They can be ham-fisted on, on the political side.
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Right. But every time somebody says, well, let's move away from having Alberta be policed by the RCMP
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and Danielle Smith, the premier there has said that you get voices rising up and saying, oh, we can't,
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we can't take away the RCMP from Canada. And meanwhile, Premier Smith is saying, look, we have so few
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resources. She said this earlier this year. She wonders if the federal government is trying to do away
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with contract policing, as it's called, where they provide the services to BC, Alberta, Manitoba,
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Nova Scotia, et cetera. She said, I have so few police officers and so little ability to get more
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police officers that I'm wondering if they're trying to do away with contract policing by stealth,
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just by not filling the job. So that's kind of the tension that you're talking about. You've got,
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you've got the fentanyl issue, you've got the terrorism issue, and then you've got the, but who's
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going to stop the guy who keeps running red lights in Red Deer? Well, the thing is, and I think that's
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what we have to look at, it's very possible. And let's use the latest example where Surrey is in the
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formation stage of its own police service. And that's controversial though. It's controversial,
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but you know, in 1973, when I went out to British Columbia, they were talking about a regional, lower
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mainland police service. And here we are 45, 50 years later, and they're still talking about it.
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You know, we've got to take off our rose-colored glasses and look at policing and what the needs of
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this country are. And because tomorrow you're going to form over time a regionalized police service or
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provincial police service, you're going to get effective policing. I dare say a lot of the
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officers that are working in contract in RCMP units today will probably go over to one of those units.
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Not all officers want to work federal policing. It's a total different beast. And that's why we
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haven't been able to get that expertise. We need long-term investigators in these areas.
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When the Nova Scotia massacre happened, we saw the absolute botched handling of that with headquarters
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in Ottawa getting involved. And that was very much a local policing issue. Should have been handled out
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of local officials. You had the commissioner getting involved. I mean, so is this one of the big
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premises of your book, then, is that just separate these two things. You don't need to have the guy
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in Red Surge doing traffic enforcement. And we do need this national police force, though.
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Very much so. More so now than ever before. If you look at, as I said, the world's changed in a complex way.
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We're looking, look at China and all of the problems that we have with China today. The Chinese police
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stations. I did a number of interviews regarding what's going on with the Iranian community and the
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Iranian money laundering. And as you know, there was a big case that was exposed. All of that has
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came out four years ago, five years ago. I wrote intelligent briefs during my time running my
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consulting firm that I got this information from. Nobody investigated. Those things are dangerous
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in my mind. And, you know, I really subscribe to what Robert Kennedy said. And, you know, he said that
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we inherit the world and it's trusted to us from our forefathers. And then we pass it on and we someday
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will be held to account by the next generation. And history will only tell whether we did a good job.
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And I, I really want to tell people that we're doing a pathetic job with this whole area of
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organized crime. We are a stopping point for transnational organized crime. It's an embarrassment.
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A lot of, too much time probably, Brian, but yes, I did.
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So tell me about that because I, you know, I've had off the record conversations with police officers on
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that. You've got to go in and build trust with criminal organization and basically infiltrate
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them. That, you know, sometimes that is done at the local policing level in large municipal forces.
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But when you're talking, as you are, about transnational crime, about, as you say, you know,
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the triads and the, you know, Beijing approved organized crime groups out of China, dealing
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with the Mexican cartels and flooding our streets with fentanyl. Well, you need a different level
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of skill. You, we essentially, you know, to put it in terms that Canadians might understand
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better. What you're talking about is the need for an FBI type organization.
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So I, the Americans don't have anything comparable to the RCMP, do they? Where they,
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you know, they're, they're all things to all people.
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Correct. They don't. And, uh, you know, I, a good example is, and everybody who remember,
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will remember Airbus, um, when I became the deputy crime ops officer, that investigation
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had been going on almost a decade. And I did a review of it. And my reaction was, why are
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we continuing with something that, first of all, went way back? And it was, as you know,
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there was a lot of issues right at the outset. Well, you'd never get it through a court of law
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today. And I, we were spinning our wheels, but the problem was, if you'd look at the turnover
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investigators that were handling that file over a 10 year period, it's an absolute embarrassment.
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Well, they would start, they'd get promoted and they're removed somewhere else. The most
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high profile investigation in this country, and we're constantly turning over investigators.
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So, so the investigators would be on for what, six, 12, 18 months, and then move on?
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Yep. Correct. You know, doing that for years, Brian, it's wrong.
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Somebody was asking me just the other day, they said, um, well, what's going to happen with
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Doug Ford? You know, Ontario's premier is now under investigation because the, the OPP
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said, well, you know, so that we're, our hands are clean. We have to hand this over to the RCMP and
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the RCMP, you know, as I said, fuddled with this a bit and then said, oh yeah, we have an
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investigation. They said, well, what's going to happen? I said, in about four years time,
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someone will ask them, are you still investigating? And they'll have to decide and they won't really
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know. And, you know, I highly doubt based on my experience, there will be charges, but I do believe
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that this will take a long, long time for us to end up with nothing because that's what's happened
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in the past. And sadly, you're correct. I, this is where you take a look at when normally, not in all
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cases, the FBI can get caught up in the politics too, unfortunately, but you also have seen where
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they can go in on a major occurrence, do an investigation, have charges laid within 18 to 24
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months and have the trial over with within a total combined three-year period. That's unheard of in
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Canada. And the answer is why? We just got to do a better job. We've got these skills. They're not
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used correctly. Let me ask you about the politics of this then, because a few people have reproached
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me and they said, you know what one of the major problems with the RCMP is? It's the political
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interference, the political interaction. And the fact that the commissioner of the RCMP
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is a deputy minister in the government. And I don't think most people know that, but the commissioner
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of the RCMP is a deputy minister is the highest ranking civil servant in a department. So the
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deputy minister of the RCMP reports directly to the minister of public safety as, as one of their
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basically assistants. This, this is not a normal policing relationship, is it?
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No, it's not. And one of the arguments I put in the, I put in my book is it's time it's treated very
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much like say Toronto police, that you've got an independent police service board that the chief
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reports to. They are accountable. The board is accountable from the administrative side,
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but operationally it's 100% the responsibility of the chief in an unfettered role. That is not the
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case in the RCMP. There is far too much political interference. I don't know if you want to comment
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on specific recent commissioners, but have there been times when you've looked at decisions that have
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been made at headquarters and said, Oh, that's getting too close. That, that is, that is the
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political bosses, either leaning on the commissioner or the commissioner making the decision to either
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appease or antagonize the political bosses for, you know, their own political reasons.
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One of the, one of the ones that I, it's in my book, Brian is a sidewinder, which was the
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intelligence probe on the Chinese, uh, triads and, and infiltration in this country. And that
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definitely, uh, both for CSIS and the RC, it's RCMP was shut down because of political interference.
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That was 1997, 98 in that era. Yeah. I've spoken to Michelle Juno-Katsuya about that many times. He was,
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he was one of the CSIS guys on that. That's correct. And, um, he has been very frustrated
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at how to, how that turned out. And yet there's an issue that the RCMP and CSIS both tried to deal
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with. It's getting close to 30 years ago now, and it was scuttled due to politics and we're still
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dealing with the problems now. In a far bigger way. That's correct. In fact, I was the, one of the
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liaison officers in Hong Kong for that three year period. I started the intelligence probe with Brian
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McAdam on that. And, uh, I can remember being asked, uh, uh, when I was back in Ottawa, do you think
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there's really something here? And, uh, I can remember telling him, yes, it warrants an investigation.
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What did the RCMP do? They put a, uh, a lower level investigator on it with not a, with no depth of
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experience in that level of sophistication. And then they closed it down. And, you know, those are
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the things that are leading to the mess we're in today. I mean, you're hitting on a lot of my
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complaints about the RCMP, Gary, and I've, I've got a lot of respect for the organization.
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I don't have a lot of respect for the people out at, uh, the headquarters in the South end of Ottawa.
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And that's based on experience. Um, you know, I, I, I've, I've been trained into the position that I'm in
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because of disappointment. And it, it, it sounds similar for you that issues of not looking after
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organized crime properly, not looking after foreign interference properly, that these things have
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just, they've tarnished your view of, of, of an organization you'd like to hold in higher esteem.
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Correct. I give you a good example. And I really hit home for me was I appeared before the House of
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Common Security Committee. And I appeared with, uh, a deputy commissioner and, uh, I think the other
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individual was chief superintendent. Anyways, questions were asked. And of course I was told
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that, that I wasn't that answer or anything. So I sat there like a puppet and all of a sudden an
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operational question come up and it was deferred to me and I answered and I can't, I apologize. I can't
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recall who the chair of it was, but I'll never forget it. I answered and I got about three minutes into
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my explanation. And he said, let me stop you there. He said, thank God we finally got a police officer
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in the room. And he looked at the deputy and he said, do you guys not get it? We're the politicians.
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We want to hear from police officers so that we understand what the issues are. And I never forgot
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that Brian, because I think that's the problem. Uh, people at the higher levels do not want to speak,
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speak truth to power. They feel they have to play politics. And well, I will warn you that that
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happens at the municipal level as well to become to a degree. It does to become chief of a major
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municipal force. You have to be a politician and you know, some of them turn into politicians. Bill
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Blair did former Toronto chief. Yeah. Um, Mark Saunders has tried twice, uh, who replaced Bill Blair
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and, uh, I've seen others and, you know, trust me, getting answers out of those guys is,
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is no better than getting answers out of a deputy RCMP commissioner. You, you ask them what day it is
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and you get a very long answer that doesn't tell you it's Monday. And that was when I was chief of
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police. That was my issue with all the chiefs and in Ontario and Canada, stop playing politics. Let's
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get back to doing what we're hired to do. And unfortunately my view was not popular as you can
00:21:52.380
well appreciate. All right, Gary, let me take a quick break here. And when we come back, I want to
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ask you about how you would change things, how the RCMP could be restructured and we could have
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effective policing because we've got many, many issues and problems in this country that are not
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being addressed because of the structure. So more on that when we come back, Gary, I'd like to ask you
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what you see as the biggest issue that a federal police force that is just doing federal policing and
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not, you know, road stops and, you know, everyday municipal issues. If the RCMP were to change and
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were to, you know, be more like the FBI where they're, they're doing those drug investigations,
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those white collar crime investigations, the transnational organized crime, what would be
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the biggest issue they would have to tackle? Well, the first big issue is going to be expertise.
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There's been such an erosion, Brian, over the last 10, 15 years. So, but I'm asking what's the
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external issue and you're saying it's internal. Well, it is partially internal to get the issue, but
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externally? No, I mean, no, you can explain a bit more about the internal problem. I want to hear
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about it, but it's just surprising to me that you say that's the biggest issue. They don't have the
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right people anymore. Well, all you do is go to the calling commission and they were asked about how
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many money laundering investigators were in the province of Bridget, Columbia. They came out and
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said five. Well, when I was the director and ran the program, I think we had 97, if I'm not mistaken,
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and I made a proposal to increase it to 137 in British Columbia just because of the demand. And
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those were people that were supposed to stay in it. And I was able to establish that I could take a
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good investigator, put them in financial crime, and I needed three to five years to get them up to a
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level that they could effectively take on a transnational organized crime investigation. Sadly,
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that wasn't happening because of promotions outside where I had, you know, obviously really talented
00:24:06.660
individuals. Well, they were very promotable and they wouldn't let me over rank positions. I recommended
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we do away with ranks in federal policing. And that was kiboshed. And as a result, then I would have
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somebody one day working with me, getting them up to speed. And all of a sudden they'd receive a
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promotion in an attachment somewhere in Alberta, and I'd lose that skill and have to start over.
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But money laundering is a serious issue across the country. British Columbia is where it's been exposed
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the most. And, you know, the commission was out, you know, there's been a lot of exposés on that.
00:24:49.340
And you're saying we went from 97 down to five? Is that still a current number that five money
00:24:56.000
laundering investigators are in that neighborhood? Well, they've recently gone out and recognizing the
00:25:02.280
situation because of Colin, and they've advertised to get individuals with certain skills, and they're
00:25:08.820
not going to put them through the whole six-month training in DAPL. But again, that's not going to
00:25:13.200
happen overnight. That's, but they're in a building process. And I think that's only a band-aid solution
00:25:20.300
at this stage. It's, you know, you can't go part way. You really need to look at what's it going to
00:25:27.100
take to be effective in this country. And if we're going to be effective, we've got to have a highly
00:25:33.800
trained group of people that are dedicated to that area of expertise long-term.
00:25:43.300
These issues that you're talking about, though, money laundering, transnational organized crime,
00:25:49.680
the drug trade, the fentanyl issue, the opioid crisis that is absolutely devastating our cities,
00:25:57.500
they're all interconnected. I said this during our most recent municipal election in Toronto.
00:26:03.800
People were talking about homelessness, about encampments, about drug paraphernalia everywhere,
00:26:09.620
and I said, about crime. And I said, well, it all comes back to fentanyl. Fentanyl's the issue.
00:26:15.060
But on the policing side, they're all connected because you've got the same people trading the
00:26:20.960
drugs, laundering the money, the organized crime. Is it possible to make a dent in what they're doing
00:26:30.740
to our society? I mean, you go around, you know, whether it's Vancouver or Calgary or Toronto or,
00:26:38.540
I mean, for goodness sakes, five-minute walk from Ottawa or from Parliament Hill in Ottawa now,
00:26:44.200
and you see people sitting like zombies because of what's coming into our country.
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And you can only do so much treatment. If the drugs keep coming, the treatment, you know,
00:27:01.320
Absolutely. And I think what people have to understand, if you look at China, I use the term
00:27:08.820
we're in a disruptive war with China because China wants to disrupt our countries like ours,
00:27:17.280
like United States. And the fentanyl crisis is doing a great job. I don't believe, having been
00:27:22.520
stationed over in Asia for three years, I don't believe for a minute that if China wanted to shut
00:27:28.160
down the fentanyl problem, they couldn't do it. They have the ability. They don't want to. And
00:27:35.340
that's what we have to understand. The other side of it, I, in 30 years, is I have not seen a politician
00:27:43.720
that is really taking this seriously. And, you know, I've appeared a number of times with Senate
00:27:53.240
committees and House of Commons committees. Where is our politicians that are looking at this?
00:27:58.420
Because it is impacting our society. The amount cost of our society, and this is what I think
00:28:03.860
Canadians have to understand. Our waiting rooms and hospitals are full. Why are they full?
00:28:12.200
It's a drug problem. Friday, Saturday night, there is more people rushed in there because of overdoses,
00:28:18.180
et cetera. And that bogs the system right down and the cost is astronomical. We got a military that
00:28:24.360
can't get people to go into it or they have a shortage. 300,000 deaths. Most of these are between
00:28:30.300
15 and 34 years of age. Prime candidates to potentially join the military. We've lost that
00:28:38.320
and lost other abilities. We are in a crisis. And what I would like to see this, any government do,
00:28:45.200
and I'd love to see first, first of all, a spokesperson take this seriously. We need to
00:28:50.020
do a full gap analysis, including legislative loopholes we've got right now. When we're allowing
00:28:56.180
rapists to walk out because their trial didn't happen in a timely manner, that's bringing justice
00:29:03.120
into disrepute. We've got to close those loopholes somehow, Brian. Well, I think we have the intelligence
00:29:08.860
to do it. Look, I feel your frustration on the people walking free. The fact is that trials were
00:29:19.200
taking far too long. We don't invest in any of this, Gary. We don't invest in our court system.
00:29:25.180
You've got to have the right to a speedy trial. And even after the Supreme Court warned and warned and
00:29:32.040
then brought in the Jordan decision, we're still not putting the money into the court system so that
00:29:37.440
people can get out. Of course, there's always games being played by crowns and more often defense
00:29:42.640
lawyers to try and extend things. But we don't invest in our police. We don't invest in our
00:29:48.880
justice system. And then we, you know, well, we'll watch a mob movie and a mafia movie makes us feel
00:29:56.740
better and that's fine. But meanwhile, as you say, cartels and triads and all these things bringing in
00:30:02.720
a very real, very concrete problem into our society that's wreaking havoc on the hospital
00:30:11.080
system, on police resources, on overdoses. I'm not sure how Vancouver Police Service can
00:30:19.320
deal with this when they're having to deal with so many people on overdoses alongside the paramedics
00:30:26.560
and everyone else. I totally agree with you. We were monopolizing resources in an area that
00:30:33.120
is one reason, one reason only there's been a lack of investment, a lack of will on the part of our
00:30:41.280
political leaders. E.B., I think Premier E.B. is the first one to have taken this somewhat seriously.
00:30:48.240
And a lot, at least he recognized the problem. But if Doug Ford thinks in his province that it's any
00:30:55.600
better, we're dreaming in technicolor because it's bad or worse. Well, I can tell you it's not because
00:31:02.500
just like every other province, they're not investing on their side. There is a federal part to this and
00:31:08.240
there is a provincial part to this. Correct. And I don't think anybody is looking after this properly.
00:31:15.040
You know, everybody, all the politicians, in my view, are just trying to look at the day-to-day
00:31:20.380
and not the long-term problem. And what you're talking about is a long-term problem and a long-term
00:31:27.380
fix. Do you think we have that ability in our politics anymore to say, let's do something that
00:31:34.980
we won't see the results for the next three to five years? We have the ability, if the Canadian public,
00:31:43.440
and this is what I hope shows like this do, and thank you for doing this, Brian,
00:31:47.120
if we can get the Canadian public understanding that this is something we're going to leave a mess
00:31:53.660
to our children and our grandchildren, and it's going to get worse. Do we have the collective
00:31:59.400
responsibility to try and fix this? I believe we do. I believe the time is to call for it now.
00:32:05.360
As you know, the Proceeds of Crime Money Laundering Act is up for review. There'll be hearings starting
00:32:13.660
up shortly. I wrote a paper on it. According to one of the people that sit on the committee,
00:32:20.100
I'll be asked to testify before it. And my final conclusion in that is, we can't wait another five
00:32:27.340
years to talk about this. We need action now. And I believe that sincerely. And, you know,
00:32:34.000
when you're turning 70, you only got so long to keep fighting these issues, Brian. And as long as
00:32:39.080
I'm here, I'm going to push this agenda because it's the right thing to do. And I think we have
00:32:43.340
a responsibility. So rather than just golf, you're going to keep pushing this issue.
00:32:48.620
Hey, I'm still working full-time, so you got it.
00:32:51.000
There's so many interconnected issues here. And you've mentioned Fintrack. You've mentioned
00:32:59.020
Proceeds of Crime. The tools are there, but it feels like on every issue we come back to,
00:33:06.200
it's that nothing is properly resourced or funded. And we can all complain about that in our respective
00:33:12.640
jobs. But in this, we can see the results or lack thereof. And so,
00:33:19.840
talk to me a bit about Fintrack. I knew some of the people that helped set it up. I watched that
00:33:27.320
process happen in Ottawa in the days after 9-11. That was supposed to be there as kind of an early
00:33:36.300
warning system to say, hey, funny things are happening. We should look into it. And what you're
00:33:44.340
Well, very few are. They've done, just so you know, I have a pretty strong relationship with
00:33:52.700
Fintrack. And now in the banking world, I obviously have a stronger one because I have to. But
00:33:57.960
in saying that, they have come into their own in a lot of respects. They're putting out some really
00:34:04.380
good material, which I think is beneficial to everybody. But my analogy has always been,
00:34:10.260
you build a Rolls Royce, you need to put a motor in it. And Fintrack is a Rolls Royce. The motor is
00:34:16.700
justice and enforcement and the prosecution, obviously. That's been lacking. So you look
00:34:24.120
around and say, well, we've got one part of the ingredient close to being right. And then it falls
00:34:30.680
off sharply because the other end of it is not working.
00:34:36.520
So let me give you a magic wand. Let me give you an unlimited budget.
00:34:43.960
What does this look like in the end? Do you take federal policing away from the RCMP? Do you get
00:34:48.860
rid of the local stuff and the musical ride? Or how do you do this? I think the cleanest way would
00:34:55.900
be to take federal policing away from the RCMP, establish something new, and resource it properly.
00:35:03.080
But then you've got to resource federal prosecutors properly and everything else along the way. Again,
00:35:10.960
back to the frustration of under-resources. But how would you do it?
00:35:15.560
First thing I do, Brian, and I say that we need a committee of experts. And I'm not talking
00:35:24.780
politicians. I'm saying put a committee of experts. Let's do a full gap analysis. I believe strongly
00:35:32.040
that it will lead to the federal policing being carved out of the RCMP or the RCMP focusing solely
00:35:40.220
on federal policing. That's going to take five years because you can't drop the contracts
00:35:46.620
overnight. But if you've got a plan going forward, you can start working on it. We need to have the
00:35:53.540
properly – and we should be going back to an integrated model that we had a number of years ago
00:35:59.020
where it's a combined law enforcement. It's with tax, with customs, with immigration, prosecutors,
00:36:07.840
all working in one unit. These are complex investigations. You can't afford to do a
00:36:12.860
million-dollar investigation and have it screwed up because of a slip-up of an investigator and
00:36:17.860
the prosecutor finding out in the 11th hour. As we know, a number of these major cases have fallen
00:36:23.560
apart. We need to have prosecutors embedded in these specialized units. And then we have to have the
00:36:30.460
ability – and this is where a federal unit comes in – if you get a high-profile investigation,
00:36:35.540
just like the FBI does today, you can pull those resources because it's under one umbrella,
00:36:41.060
and you can pull them into a central location, and this is your task force, and this is your task,
00:36:46.260
and you've got 24 months to get the job done. Not five years, not six years. You've got 24 months to get
00:36:52.360
the job done with the right resources. And that's possible. It's just we don't put the right resources.
00:36:58.220
As I said, just as it took almost four years for Justin Trudeau and SNC, I think in four years,
00:37:05.100
we'll find out what happened with Doug Ford in the green belt. And it's a sad setup now. I hope for
00:37:14.040
a better future, Gary, and you've laid that out in your book. And hopefully some people, maybe the
00:37:20.060
right people, are listening going forward. Thanks so much for your time today.
00:37:27.480
Full Comment is a post-media podcast. My name's Brian Lilly, your host. This episode was produced
00:37:32.640
by Andre Pru with theme music by Bryce Hall. Kevin Libin is the executive producer. You can subscribe
00:37:38.820
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