Full Comment - Canadian politics plays right into the Carney Liberals’ hands

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00:01:08.340 Hello, welcome to the Full Comment Podcast.

00:01:10.220 My name's Brian Lilly, your host.

00:01:11.860 And while we had planned on doing an episode that would mainly focus on

00:01:15.420 floor crossers and Matt Jenneroo,

00:01:18.000 Mark Carney's attempt to get a majority government by poaching other MPs,

00:01:22.180 well, events, dear boy.

00:01:24.820 Events, as they say.

00:01:26.280 Donald Trump's tariffs struck down by the U.S. Supreme Court on Friday morning,

00:01:30.780 just prior to recording.

00:01:32.400 But wait!

00:01:33.800 It doesn't really apply to Canada.

00:01:35.720 And there's more, as they say, in those late-night infomercials.

00:01:39.360 So, we've pivoted.

00:01:40.660 We're still going to talk about floor crossers, 1.00

00:01:42.860 such as Matt Jenneroo, joining Mark Carney earlier this week.

00:01:46.540 You know, Matt brings a wealth of experience,

00:01:50.520 despite his young demeanor.

00:01:54.480 He brings a wealth of experience.

00:01:56.260 First, became a member of the Legislative Assembly here in Alberta in 2012.

00:02:01.920 Yeah.

00:02:02.220 And then elected four consecutive times as an MP.

00:02:05.860 Edmonton River Bend, I know it well from my time growing up,

00:02:10.600 although it's changed a little bit since I was here.

00:02:15.080 And a lot of parliamentary experience,

00:02:17.700 including on the international side, on the security side.

00:02:22.260 But we'll start with the idea of the Supreme Court striking down Donald Trump's tariffs.

00:02:27.900 It was a short-lived victory as Trump popped up to say,

00:02:31.640 wait a minute, I'm going to keep more tariffs in place.

00:02:34.540 Today, I will sign an order to impose a 10% global tariff under Section 122,

00:02:40.800 over and above our normal tariffs already being charged.

00:02:45.560 And we're also initiating several Section 301 and other investigations

00:02:50.780 to protect our country from unfair trading practices of other countries and companies.

00:02:58.140 A whirlwind week of news.

00:03:00.100 A week where there's so much happening, you don't know where to start.

00:03:03.220 Joining me to talk about all of that this week are two post-media columnists,

00:03:07.800 Lauren Gunter and Chris Selle.

00:03:09.840 So, Chris, Lauren, thanks for joining me in a very uneventful week in politics.

00:03:15.100 Let's start with the tariff situation because, you know, as we talk here on Friday afternoon,

00:03:20.640 that is the new news.

00:03:22.840 A lot of Canadians celebrating, and I'm not sure why, one, this Supreme Court ruling doesn't apply

00:03:30.560 to the tariffs that are on our lumber, on our steel, our aluminum, our autos.

00:03:36.900 And by the way, Donald Trump just imposed new tariffs on everything else.

00:03:41.840 So should we be celebrating?

00:03:43.680 Is this something to celebrate, Lauren?

00:03:45.540 Yeah.

00:03:45.840 It's a psychological victory.

00:03:48.900 If you listen to what he was saying after this decision came out, the man who's already

00:03:55.540 unhinged at most times became even more unhinged.

00:03:59.500 He's more bombastic.

00:04:01.280 He's more of a blowhard than he ever has been.

00:04:03.740 He said, the Supreme Court is disloyal to the United States.

00:04:07.180 The six judges out of nine who voted against me are afraid to stand up for me.

00:04:15.660 Oh, for crying out loud, for once, somebody was willing to stand up to him and tell him

00:04:22.480 he can't do what he wants to do.

00:04:24.060 The U.S. Constitution is very clear.

00:04:26.820 Tariff powers are exclusively with Congress.

00:04:29.280 Congress wouldn't stand up to him.

00:04:31.040 So thank goodness the Supreme Court did.

00:04:33.120 So from that standpoint, I mean, I know that there's not going to affect much about Canada

00:04:37.440 U.S. trade, but psychologically, I love it.

00:04:43.540 My big concern with U.S. politics is always, how does it impact Canada?

00:04:47.720 That's what I've, you know, reduced myself to over the last bunch of years, Chris, because

00:04:52.460 otherwise it just gets quite exhausting.

00:04:54.520 Um, this won't impact our, our tariffs on, on the aforementioned goods, the, uh, the steel,

00:05:02.760 the aluminum, the auto, the, the lumber.

00:05:04.300 These are the things that are really hurting us economically.

00:05:07.640 How do you view it?

00:05:09.360 I mean, it seems to me that there could be, I agree with Lauren about it being a psychological

00:05:14.760 victory in the sense that it's a defeat.

00:05:19.000 Um, I mean, we shouldn't be as obsessed with American politics as we are, even though God

00:05:24.800 knows it has a huge effect on us, but to me, it is a huge psychological victory.

00:05:30.680 If only because supposedly the Supreme court, the whole narrative was that the Supreme court

00:05:34.700 is, is in Trump's back pocket, right?

00:05:37.280 They'll do anything he wants.

00:05:39.780 Um, and if they ever didn't do what he wanted, then he would just defy them, but he can't do

00:05:46.600 that with this, right?

00:05:47.600 You mean tariffs either exist or they don't.

00:05:49.700 So there's a, I think I agree with about a psychological victory, but I think also possibly 0.97

00:05:55.240 in terms of how it might benefit Canada, if it just makes Trump look dumb, um, and kind 0.97

00:06:06.460 of useless and more people notice him ranting and raving and really losing the plot, which 0.98

00:06:12.520 I really think he is like, we've been hearing people say Donald Trump's losing the plot for 0.97

00:06:16.580 10 plus years.

00:06:17.780 But to me right now he is losing the plot.

00:06:21.260 So I, I think potentially it could just weaken his position in trying to just fight this, 0.99

00:06:28.100 this stupid war against Canada and Denmark, you know, and, and, and everyone else. 0.99

00:06:34.880 Yeah. 1.00

00:06:35.800 The IE EPA tariffs, the international emergency economics act or whatever it's called.

00:06:41.460 Um, uh, they are the ones that were struck down.

00:06:44.980 The section 232 tariffs weren't even challenged because you know, the law is very clear that

00:06:51.400 that's section 232 under the 1962 trade expansion act.

00:06:55.500 And in that case, Lauren, the Congress clearly gave up the ability to impose tariffs for national

00:07:03.720 security measures to the president.

00:07:06.140 And those are the ones that are hitting us.

00:07:08.160 Uh, the, by the way, the judges that, um, uh, voted against Donald Trump and were disloyal,

00:07:14.700 uh, chief justice, John Roberts, justice, Neil Gorsuch, justice, Amy Coney Barrett.

00:07:19.760 Those are three that are supposed to be on his side.

00:07:22.700 Um, and then the three liberal judges, Sonia Sotomayor, uh, Elena Kagan, uh, Katanya Brown

00:07:28.420 Jackson, uh, were the other three of the six with Thomas Alito and Kavanaugh voting, uh, a

00:07:34.900 rule, you know, agreeing with a dissent that it was allowable under the law, but six, three

00:07:40.180 is a majority.

00:07:40.760 So Trump loses only one of the judges who voted in his favor was a Trump appointee.

00:07:48.460 That's Kavanaugh.

00:07:49.760 Uh, and so this is a resounding defeat for Trump because even the people he appointed

00:07:57.300 to the, to the court in his first term, mostly voted against him.

00:08:02.460 Gore, Gorsuch and Coney Barrett.

00:08:04.700 Yes.

00:08:05.680 Well, and I find the fact too, that the, that the ruling, uh, goes back.

00:08:11.000 I mean, the thing I found that made me chuckle was that the ruling was just to like tariffs

00:08:17.920 or taxes.

00:08:18.520 Like it goes out of its way to point this out that this goes back to like the war of

00:08:22.500 independence, right?

00:08:24.100 This, this is, this is fundamental to American society that taxes though, not all tariffs

00:08:31.340 as Brian points out, uh, are the, are the bailwick of Congress and tariffs or taxes on

00:08:38.580 American consumers.

00:08:39.180 And it's just there in black and white.

00:08:42.300 And, and it just completely blows up his whole, you know, the other countries pay the tariffs,

00:08:48.280 um, narrative or the, well, we always, we always knew that that was, uh, incorrect.

00:08:56.960 Yeah.

00:08:58.020 I'm not sure Americans did though.

00:08:59.640 I'm not sure.

00:09:00.420 Trump knows it's incorrect.

00:09:02.120 In some instances it's not because I do remember he said to Walmart, you're going to eat some

00:09:07.620 of this and guess what they did.

00:09:09.960 Yep.

00:09:10.860 But he said today when he was speaking about this decision, he said today that, you know,

00:09:17.940 we still have to keep foreigners paying our tariffs and, you know, we have to keep them 1.00

00:09:24.880 down with these tariffs and I think it's quite clear that he models this up in his mind all

00:09:32.220 the time that he, somebody told him, probably, uh, Lutnick, the commerce secretary told him that

00:09:39.060 if they impose tariffs, they'll be able to rehome all sorts of manufacturing from overseas.

00:09:45.700 And that's all Trump wanted to know because he was, he's going after that former assembly

00:09:51.660 line worker vote.

00:09:53.620 Uh, and so it doesn't matter to him how it works.

00:09:56.920 He just thinks tariffs are the most beautiful word in the dictionary.

00:10:02.080 But he does have smart people around him who believe that this is the right way to go.

00:10:06.960 You know, you can think Peter Navarro is crazy, but the man has a PhD in economics from Harvard.

00:10:13.160 Um, and he fully believes in tariffs, uh, uh, has it, uh, he's got a PhD from, uh, I think it's

00:10:23.280 university of Pennsylvania business school in economics.

00:10:26.400 He fully believes in tariffs.

00:10:27.980 Jameson Greer, his U S trade representative is the architect of all this.

00:10:32.380 Uh, and they found a new way to do it, which is the 1974 trade act.

00:10:36.840 They're going to impose a 10% global tariff.

00:10:40.000 So, I mean, these guys are determined.

00:10:43.160 We have as Canadians spent far too much time trying to convince these guys who are true

00:10:49.420 believers in tariffs, that tariffs are bad.

00:10:51.940 We sound like the high school teacher in Ferris Bueller's day off talking about Smoot 0.92

00:10:55.500 Hawley.

00:10:56.080 And just like the kids in Ferris Bueller, the Trump guys are falling asleep and, and they're

00:11:01.940 happy to go about with tariffs.

00:11:03.140 We need to find a negotiated settlement to get these either lifted or reduced.

00:11:09.580 And we're not doing that.

00:11:10.920 No, we're, we're imposing our own tariffs.

00:11:13.180 The things that, well, not so much as Carney said we would, I guess, but I mean, we, we

00:11:19.220 have this, you know, we were not selling American liquor.

00:11:21.580 You know, this is our, this is our, we are.

00:11:24.160 Yeah.

00:11:24.440 You are.

00:11:25.360 Yeah.

00:11:25.880 It's sorry.

00:11:27.340 Even as I was saying it, I was like, oh, Lawrence on this.

00:11:30.660 And Quebec's putting it back on the table.

00:11:32.680 Oh, I can, I can go to my local liquor store and get all the bourbon I want.

00:11:36.800 And California red.

00:11:38.640 But yeah, we just haven't responded to me.

00:11:42.340 We haven't responded in a way that sort of principled where we can claim that we've

00:11:48.180 sort of, that we actually believe in what we're trying to preach to watching.

00:11:52.760 That's sort of what I'm saying.

00:11:54.120 You know, I was thinking about that the other day.

00:11:56.540 Um, Doug Ford got his win with Diageo.

00:12:00.660 Now Diageo, the global drinks maker had announced that it was closing a bottling plant in Amherstburg,

00:12:09.200 Ontario, just outside of Windsor, a bottling plant that in my view, never made any sense.

00:12:13.700 Uh, they took the, uh, they took crown Royal and added flavor to it to make the, the apple

00:12:20.600 and the peach crown Royal and all of that.

00:12:22.780 And they bottled it there.

00:12:24.100 It was never made there.

00:12:25.040 It was either made in Valleyfield, Quebec, hundreds of kilometers away, or in Gimli,

00:12:30.480 Manitoba, thousands of kilometers away.

00:12:32.540 Why were you bottling it there to then ship to the U S so that, you know, economically

00:12:38.820 it didn't make sense.

00:12:39.900 It had nothing to do with terrorists, but Doug Ford sounding very much like Trump said,

00:12:44.780 you're going to do what I want, or you're going to pay.

00:12:47.040 And he fought and he fought and he said, I'm going to take crown Royal off the shelves.

00:12:51.000 If you don't do this.

00:12:51.880 And eventually all Diageo products off the table.

00:12:54.580 He sounded exactly like Trump at that point.

00:12:57.280 Well, guess what?

00:12:58.200 It worked and he got $23 million worth of concessions from the company just announced

00:13:03.860 last week.

00:13:04.700 So, you know, we, we are not being the purists that we're demanding the others be.

00:13:09.820 Once again, everyone seems to be adopting Trump's measures of protectionism and you'll

00:13:17.080 do this or else.

00:13:18.460 What's just a lack of imagination to my mind.

00:13:21.220 And, and it's also self-destructive.

00:13:23.620 You know, what we'd learned about, uh, tariffs and free trade is that if we do what we're

00:13:31.640 good at and other countries do what they're good at, the sum total of all of that manufacturing

00:13:38.100 and trade is higher than if we all try to do everything for ourselves.

00:13:43.900 Like if we're better at making scotch, we're not, but if, if we were, we make a whole bunch

00:13:52.260 of it and trade it with the rest of the world.

00:13:53.700 One of the best, one of the best arguments against Trump's tariffs that I saw was from

00:13:58.380 a woman in, uh, California who owns a bakery and she posted on Facebook right after this

00:14:04.980 started last year that she has a trade deficit with the grocery store where she buys her

00:14:11.980 supplies.

00:14:12.440 But that trade deficit enables her to make goods that she can sell at a profit. 1.00

00:14:18.800 So we've known for years that tariffs were a mess.

00:14:24.180 Uh, you know, they sort of went out of fashion with David Ricardo back in, in the 1700s.

00:14:31.220 So, uh, I've always been upset.

00:14:35.780 I don't care how many PhDs he's got around them.

00:14:38.420 It doesn't matter. 0.98

00:14:39.140 It's a ridiculous economic policy. 0.87

00:14:41.880 And thankfully, psychologically now, maybe some of the rest of the world will stand up 0.95

00:14:46.580 to him.

00:14:47.720 And one of the frustrating things I find is, is that with this liquor thing, as, as, as 0.99

00:14:52.560 stupid as I find it and, and sort of offensive, like we're limiting Canadians choices because 1.00

00:14:59.000 of Donald Trump. 1.00

00:15:00.340 What?

00:15:01.700 Why, why are we doing this?

00:15:03.380 It's, it's one of the only, because, you know, Ontario, for example, is, I mean, the

00:15:08.660 LCBO must be one of the biggest purchasers of alcohol in the world.

00:15:13.480 So it's one of the only places where the premier of Ontario can ever sort of have a comparable

00:15:19.760 bully pulpit to Donald Trump or any other American president, because he, he's, that's one

00:15:26.720 place where there's leverage, but it, it, it relies on government liquor stores. 0.75

00:15:34.720 I mean, it's, it's just a, you know, it's frustrating living next to the United States,

00:15:39.320 isn't it?

00:15:39.640 It's a, but the, you know, we have to find a way to do it.

00:15:42.880 But to, to go back to what Lauren was just saying, and I agree with you that tariffs

00:15:47.340 are a mess, Lauren, and I'm not a fan of them, but the other guys are, and it's not

00:15:53.740 just a, a fad.

00:15:55.260 Like your premier told me to read this book by Robert Lighthouser a year ago to understand

00:16:00.040 what they're talking about.

00:16:00.840 No trade is free, changing course, taking on China and helping America's workers. 0.98

00:16:05.660 They believe that this will benefit America's workers, that it will bring jobs back to America.

00:16:12.660 They fully believe that they, it's not a fad for them.

00:16:16.720 And if we're still arguing as if we should just convince them that tariffs are bad, then

00:16:23.620 nothing will change until, well, we get a new administration in that doesn't believe

00:16:28.240 that.

00:16:28.500 And if JD Vance gets in or Marco Rubio gets in, in the next presidential election, it won't

00:16:34.160 change.

00:16:34.520 Well, it might change, you know, at some point, Gorbachev came in and changed, uh, all

00:16:41.480 of thinking in the Soviet Union, despite having been part of the apparatus for a decade, but

00:16:46.560 It didn't last long.

00:16:47.920 No, but he did enough that he reformed it.

00:16:50.960 Um, but the, I think one of the people who's really driving this is Howard Lutnick, the commerce

00:16:59.420 secretary, and he's just another Trump.

00:17:02.180 He's a billionaire who's made money in some other angle, doesn't particularly understand

00:17:09.140 politics, but because he's rich, he thinks he's a genius and everyone should listen to

00:17:13.800 him.

00:17:14.220 Uh, he's the one who was behind the Gordie Howe bridge, uh, threat from Trump that he wasn't

00:17:22.640 going to allow it to open because he had talked to the people in Detroit who owned the ambassador

00:17:27.940 bridge.

00:17:28.600 And they said, Canada's screwing us. 1.00

00:17:31.240 Well, I said, that's all you have to say that Trump and his administration is that Canada's

00:17:35.660 pulling one over on you and they're there.

00:17:38.280 That's exactly, that's exactly right.

00:17:40.780 It's the, the, it's people have always said that, that Trump may, maybe not so much recently,

00:17:47.420 but that Trump could be convinced to do almost anything by the last person he talked to.

00:17:52.140 Yeah.

00:17:52.560 Like that, that he could be convinced to adopt a position.

00:17:55.480 And I mean, Maddie Maroon, I don't know how many people know who he is, but I mean, this

00:18:00.560 guy's like a cartoon robber baron villain.

00:18:02.860 He owns the ambassador bridge between Windsor and Detroit, which is the only existing truck

00:18:08.660 route.

00:18:09.660 So he holds, you know, God knows how much trade, uh, hostage over that.

00:18:16.880 I mean, your average car probably goes across that bridge twice before it gets on the lot. 1.00

00:18:22.260 Um, so it's, it's, yeah, I mean, that was just stupid. 0.99

00:18:28.320 And, and why would you anger Michigan? 0.99

00:18:33.860 That, that, that is perplexing.

00:18:36.160 Look, um, I, I, the only way we're getting the tariffs on Canada lifted though, is through

00:18:41.300 negotiated settlement.

00:18:42.380 And I want to point out that this past week we sent 370 people, government officials, bureaucrats,

00:18:52.020 elected officials, business leaders, lobbyists, not to Washington.

00:18:56.880 We sent them to Mexico on a six day, uh, trade junket to try and convince the Mexicans to 1.00

00:19:04.600 stick with us in Kuzma at a time when the Americans are talking about getting rid of 0.96

00:19:09.480 Kuzma and just having two bilateral deals.

00:19:11.580 And I point out that in the last year, in the middle of all this, we have not done a similar

00:19:17.820 charm offensive with Washington.

00:19:20.100 We've sent Dominic LeBlanc and a couple of bureaucrats with them down to, for meetings.

00:19:25.340 We sent, uh, prime minister Carney down.

00:19:27.920 We haven't done a similar trade initiative and our American, the exports that we send

00:19:33.280 to the Americans are worth 68 times what we send to Mexico.

00:19:37.920 To me, it seems like the Carney guys realize, okay, dealing with Trump is tough.

00:19:45.220 Seeing, uh, being seen to fight with them is good for me politically.

00:19:49.460 Let's keep the fight going. 0.92

00:19:51.940 Do you think that they want a deal or do you think they like the fight because it helps

00:19:55.800 them politically, Lauren?

00:19:57.820 No, I think you're absolutely right.

00:19:59.400 There is no consideration in the mind of a liberal that Trump's, I use this pun, uh, that,

00:20:09.360 that overshadows their reelection. 0.91

00:20:13.480 They, they, they would kill all the firstborn children in the country if they thought it 0.99

00:20:19.480 would get them reelected. 0.62

00:20:21.140 They, and that's what the reason they are the most successful political organization in

00:20:25.740 the Western world in the last 100 years is that that's all they focus on.

00:20:30.280 Like, you know, we were talking a little bit earlier and I assume we're going to get into

00:20:34.360 this a little bit later about Jamal Giovanni who went, the conservative MP who went to Washington

00:20:41.960 to talk to Trump and then came back and said, you know, we have to, uh, we have to stop

00:20:46.920 getting ourselves in a tizzy over, over the United States.

00:20:51.000 We should be working with Trump.

00:20:53.180 He should be working in the liberal war room because he is making commercials for them that

00:20:59.860 they will use in the next election, which I expect with, will be within the next election.

00:21:03.880 And yet he's right.

00:21:05.280 Well, he may be right.

00:21:06.560 He's 100% right.

00:21:07.720 He may be right, but I don't think he is.

00:21:09.600 He's too tight with J.D. Vance, who he met in law school at Yale, uh, and he's, he's too

00:21:16.240 Trumpian, uh, but what, because what the conservative party in Canada needs is its own Canadian conservative

00:21:27.400 response to Trump.

00:21:29.080 And I would fault Poliev for a year of not coming up with one.

00:21:34.260 I mean, all I would say is, is that I just don't think it's possible to, uh, conclude

00:21:39.120 a deal with Donald Trump because he'll just turn around the next day and say, I don't like

00:21:43.900 this deal anymore.

00:21:44.580 I mean, he signed the free trade deal that he now wants to get rid of.

00:21:48.920 I, I, I, I certainly agree that we should, uh, for the greater good, we should put up

00:22:00.780 with Trump as best we can and make the best of it.

00:22:03.780 And if that involves flattering the guy, uh, then fair enough.

00:22:09.420 But I don't think there's any charm offensive that can do it.

00:22:12.740 I don't think there's any charm offensive.

00:22:14.140 That's going to win over this administration, their whole thing is just, you know, the art

00:22:20.620 of the deal, right?

00:22:22.280 Uh, you know, this is him negotiating.

00:22:25.500 This is his genius with the full force of the greatest, you know, military and economic

00:22:31.380 power in the world behind him.

00:22:32.940 I mean, what a genius he is for, for managing to bully people with that.

00:22:37.420 I just don't think, I mean, Carney went to Carney went to Mar-a-Lago.

00:22:42.040 I'm not sure what else he, they had nice photos.

00:22:45.320 No, you didn't go to, you went to Washington.

00:22:47.060 You went to the White House twice, not Mar-a-Lago.

00:22:49.660 Let's do a quick round on Jamil Giovanni and the reaction to that is more reaction to him

00:22:57.960 saying Canadians have to stop having a hissy fit, which when you look at it in the whole

00:23:03.060 context, he's talking about protecting jobs and we need to protect jobs.

00:23:07.280 And that's why he's doing what he does and let's stop having a hissy fit.

00:23:10.900 More reaction to that than a liberal MP standing in the house of commons, calling him unity

00:23:16.240 Mitford, a, um, Nazi sympathizer. 0.94

00:23:19.340 And by extension, Trump is Adolf Hitler. 0.99

00:23:21.940 Uh, and David Hurley saying he's too ugly to be successful in politics. 0.90

00:23:26.640 Uh, you know, I thought the guy was doing, and we had him on the podcast.

00:23:31.100 I took him at his word that I thought he was trying to do what was, uh, good for Canada.

00:23:36.260 I mean, we've had this talk of let's have a team Canada approach.

00:23:40.560 And then this guy who's besties with the VP comes forward and says, let me help you.

00:23:46.160 And the liberal say, no, we'd rather attack you because it helps us politically.

00:23:50.100 I don't recall him saying, let us help you.

00:23:52.480 He, that, as far back as November, he offered to go down and work with the liberals as part

00:23:58.920 of the conversation.

00:23:59.600 And they said, no, sorry, I meant, sorry, I meant recently with this last trip, but yeah,

00:24:03.920 fair enough. 0.53

00:24:04.620 I mean, I think hissy fit was a ridiculous thing to say just for a politician, just not 0.71

00:24:12.100 a good idea. 0.62

00:24:13.400 And I don't think it's fair.

00:24:14.700 I mean, if his, if his, if his point is Canadian jobs being, um, in great peril, and that is thanks

00:24:27.200 to Donald Trump, I mean, the Canadian say what you will about Canada's, you know, contribution

00:24:33.340 to global affairs, but I mean, the auto industry worked pretty well.

00:24:38.860 Uh, and that's a, that's a by not, you know, it's that's that, that exists across the Quebec

00:24:45.500 or about across the Windsor Detroit border.

00:24:47.580 Essentially, I think, I think, I think a hissy fits completely understandable, frankly, not

00:24:54.700 useful, but nor would I criticize people for being really upset about it.

00:25:00.960 All right.

00:25:01.140 When we come back, we got to take a quick break.

00:25:03.140 When we come back, let's talk about floor crossings and Matt Jenneru, who, uh, said he

00:25:09.900 needed to leave politics to spend more time with his family.

00:25:12.840 And apparently has spent enough time with his family because he's a liberal now.

00:25:16.760 Things are feeling a little less human these days, aren't they?

00:25:20.400 But isn't the whole point of progress to make things more human?

00:25:23.780 That's why at TD, when we design a product, whether it's an app for making trading easier

00:25:28.920 or monitoring your account for fraud, we ask one simple question.

00:25:33.480 How does this help people?

00:25:35.740 That's how we're making banking more simple, more seamless, and more intuitive.

00:25:40.520 But most importantly, that's how TD is making banking more human.

00:25:45.440 Are we human?

00:25:48.440 There were so many missed opportunities to catch this before the devastating thing happened.

00:25:55.140 A third of them we found literally in the phone book.

00:25:58.660 These people were not afraid.

00:26:00.900 They knew that nobody was effectively hunting them.

00:26:03.520 They knew they had escaped justice, that they were going to die in their beds.

00:26:07.820 When I give talks at law schools, it's that the Charter ultimately is empowering a minority.

00:26:11.800 And it's empowering a minority that's a guild across the country.

00:26:14.780 And it's a fairly elite guild, and the guild is lawyers.

00:26:16.780 Families who were split by a referendum and brothers and sisters who never talked to each

00:26:23.120 other for years after the referendum because they were so angry at each other because of

00:26:27.580 the emotions on both sides.

00:26:29.440 The reason he was assassinated was not because he was trying to put a satellite into space,

00:26:34.240 but because the gun that he was creating had other applications that made him and the

00:26:42.620 gun very dangerous.

00:26:44.620 It's finally here.

00:26:46.000 A new season of Canada Did What?

00:26:48.440 Host media podcast that revisits the big Canadian political events you might think you remember

00:26:53.840 and tells you the real story you never knew.

00:26:57.020 I'm Tristan Hopper.

00:26:58.100 The voices you just heard are from our brand new season two.

00:27:02.320 We will unpack some of the pivotal moments that helped define our country, often without

00:27:06.560 a vote, usually without a plan, and sometimes without anyone admitting what they've done.

00:27:12.360 We'll find out how Canada became a welcoming paradise for untold numbers of Nazi war criminals 0.96

00:27:18.340 after the Second World War.

00:27:19.640 We let them build monuments to their wartime exploits and even ended up honoring a Nazi 0.58

00:27:24.520 fighter in the House of Commons.

00:27:26.840 And I'm sorry to say that none of that happened by accident.

00:27:30.400 We'll bring you the little-known story of a troubled Canadian rocket scientist who turned

00:27:34.820 to a sinister life of selling giant guns to terrible people.

00:27:39.700 And if that sounds like a spy novel, it ends like one too.

00:27:43.060 You'll hear the behind-the-scenes story of Quebec's attempted secession from Canada and how

00:27:47.740 very close we came to a political crisis that would have made Brexit look like a picnic.

00:27:53.420 You'll hear about how the much-celebrated Charter of Rights and Freedoms turned into something

00:27:58.120 its creators never wanted, and how many of the most extravagant warnings about the document

00:28:03.500 were all quickly proven true.

00:28:06.120 And you'll even hear about how authorities bungled multiple chances to stop the deadliest terrorist

00:28:11.340 attack in our country's history, and then proceeded to pretend it never happened.

00:28:16.220 These aren't dusty history lessons.

00:28:18.480 They're stories about power, ambition, madness, and the things about Canada that a lot of people

00:28:23.720 would rather ignore.

00:28:25.120 But not you!

00:28:26.480 You won't want to miss an episode.

00:28:28.400 Subscribe to make sure you get all of Season 2 starting March 2026 anywhere you get your podcasts.

00:28:34.260 So I had announced my resignation back in November, largely due to family reasons, but quite simply

00:28:45.400 couldn't sit on the sidelines after seeing what the Prime Minister was, the vicious agenda

00:28:51.980 he was undertaking across the country and across the world.

00:28:56.680 And quite honestly, it was the speech in Davos where you took everything head-on, and I think

00:29:04.520 for me, that's where a lot of the world changed.

00:29:07.820 I think it opened a lot of eyes for Canadians, Albertans, Evertonians, just how serious this

00:29:12.940 national media crisis truly is.

00:29:14.820 And for me, it felt disingenuine and quite simply wrong to be sitting on the sidelines anymore.

00:29:21.820 So I reached out to the Prime Minister's office, and he'll be joining his caucus, and I couldn't

00:29:28.220 be more.

00:29:29.920 Excellent.

00:29:30.480 There you have it, Matt Jenneru, once again, saying he couldn't sit on the sidelines.

00:29:34.640 I mean, he was leaving politics, wasn't he?

00:29:38.400 Lauren, let's start with you on this, because he is an Edmonton area MP.

00:29:42.520 He may not be your member of Parliament, but he's from the Edmonton area.

00:29:46.320 Uh, I looked through all the records, and of course, Edmonton Riverbend, that the writing

00:29:52.720 he represents has only been around since 2015, and it's been stitched together over the years

00:29:59.320 and changed, and boundaries have moved.

00:30:01.960 The only thing that could come close to finding a liberal to represent this area was a guy named

00:30:06.620 Hugh Harry, in 1968, represented part of Edmonton that, you know, was kind of in that area.

00:30:13.580 And he lasted one term.

00:30:15.400 That was the last liberal in that part of Edmonton.

00:30:19.220 Uh, does, does Matt Jenneru have a chance at winning?

00:30:22.360 Before we get into whether it's good or bad, does he have a chance of winning again as a

00:30:26.880 liberal?

00:30:27.200 No, I don't think so.

00:30:28.060 And, and there have been at the provincial level, ridings within the larger federal riding

00:30:34.560 that have gone liberal over the years.

00:30:37.360 Uh, two or three times.

00:30:39.760 And in fact, there was even one NDP member elected from a part of that federal riding.

00:30:44.780 So, is it possible with the right issues and the right national campaign that it could go

00:30:51.380 to the liberals?

00:30:52.260 Yes, I think it is possible.

00:30:54.520 But as you said, it's very, very unlikely.

00:30:57.560 And Jenneru personally will not win after this.

00:31:02.840 Why?

00:31:03.040 Because people think this is disloyal.

00:31:05.820 I mean, I, I am a firm believer in, as a lot of people are, that you were elected to

00:31:12.860 represent your constituents as a, the member of a particular party.

00:31:17.320 If you decide to cross the floor, you should be required to step down, run in a by-election

00:31:22.400 to reaffirm that that's what your constituents want.

00:31:25.600 And he's not going to do that.

00:31:27.160 And, and I don't think he's going to be terribly effective with the liberals.

00:31:30.720 They're not going to make him a minister.

00:31:33.100 Uh, they.

00:31:34.880 Oh, he's an advisor on international trade and defense and security issues.

00:31:39.120 Exactly.

00:31:39.500 I can, I can be named an advisor on defense issues.

00:31:45.200 Chris, um, let me read off the results of a Leger poll for Post Media.

00:31:49.420 Uh, it was about three weeks ago.

00:31:52.180 This came out.

00:31:53.740 What, uh, preferred process when a member of parliament changes party affiliation?

00:31:59.640 38% of Canadians said they should be required to run in a special by-election to get approval

00:32:04.920 of voters in his or her riding for changing parties.

00:32:08.340 26% said they should be required to sit as an independent until the next general election.

00:32:14.000 20% said they should be allowed to continue to do, uh, to cross the floor with no

00:32:19.340 conditions as is currently the case.

00:32:21.400 And 15% said, I don't know.

00:32:23.580 And look down at their shoes.

00:32:25.260 Where do you come down?

00:32:26.760 As a practical matter, there will never be a rule that says, uh, any of those things because

00:32:34.220 no party would actually support such a rule if it had any teeth because they want people.

00:32:40.500 Well, the new Democrats would, but they, they will not never be in power.

00:32:44.480 Uh, yeah.

00:32:45.160 And not many people cross the floor to them.

00:32:47.700 Uh, in fact, I was looking at this the other day, I believe there's only one who's ever

00:32:51.700 done it at the federal level and it was quite a long time ago and I can't even remember his

00:32:56.000 name.

00:32:56.720 Uh, he was a one-term MP and I think he sat for the liberals, NDP and Tories in the same.

00:33:04.180 Um, no, I think the Tories rejected him.

00:33:06.840 Sorry.

00:33:07.520 That's, and that's why he ended up with the NDP.

00:33:10.220 Um, I, so I, I don't think such a law is possible.

00:33:15.060 Uh, and if it ever such a law existed, it would be like fixed election dates laws or

00:33:20.020 balanced budgets laws, right?

00:33:21.980 Like it would just be ignored or overturned if necessary when the circumstances existed.

00:33:30.000 We've had two laws on this at the provincial level.

00:33:34.420 One in, uh, I believe it was New Brunswick and it was brought in by the liberals and then

00:33:43.720 the conservatives got rid of it when they were elected.

00:33:45.940 So it was never challenged.

00:33:47.420 Nobody crossed the floor.

00:33:49.300 Um, and then the conservatives got in, they scrapped it.

00:33:52.440 But in Manitoba, it was in place and it said you had to either sit as an independent or

00:34:00.020 quit and run in a by-election.

00:34:02.440 And this was challenged in court and it survived.

00:34:07.060 That was, uh, it was Stephen Fletcher, the former federal conservative MP was in Brian

00:34:13.300 Pallister's Manitoba PC caucus.

00:34:16.480 And they kicked him out.

00:34:17.860 He didn't even cross the floor.

00:34:19.080 He kicked, they kicked him out, which means he changed party affiliation and he wanted

00:34:24.760 to start a new party.

00:34:26.000 Well, that would mean changing party affiliation and he's not allowed to do that.

00:34:29.640 So he challenged it in court and the judge said, no, this is, this is allowable.

00:34:33.840 So Lauren, do you think that we should consider a law like that?

00:34:37.060 Or, you know, do you like the idea, but like Chris say, you know, realize that turkeys won't 1.00

00:34:42.300 vote for Thanksgiving?

00:34:43.580 Well, I mean, Chris was absolutely right about that.

00:34:46.960 It's, it's like proportional representation, all sorts of opposition parties love it.

00:34:52.040 And then as soon as they went a majority of the seats with 42% of the vote, oh no, we

00:34:58.000 couldn't do that.

00:34:58.680 We couldn't possibly do that.

00:35:00.440 Um, I would prefer it was a convention rather than a law that it just became our habit that

00:35:09.420 if you decided to switch parties in the middle of a term, you stepped down and you went honestly

00:35:15.760 to your constituents and said, here's why I'm changing.

00:35:19.880 Please vote for me again.

00:35:22.080 It is a very interesting poll that Brian cited.

00:35:24.380 I mean, one of the things I'm not sure I'd ever seen this question asked quite so in black

00:35:29.960 and white like this and they asked Canadians, um, you know, what's your primary influence

00:35:35.720 when you vote?

00:35:36.460 Is it the leader of the party or the local candidate?

00:35:38.820 And it was only 14% across the board who said the local candidate.

00:35:43.120 And I hate that.

00:35:45.860 I really hate that.

00:35:47.740 And, and it like, I, I, I hate the emasculate that this.

00:35:53.580 If you talk to people who run election campaigns, they'll tell you it's actually lower.

00:35:58.220 Oh yeah.

00:35:58.700 Yeah.

00:35:59.300 Yeah.

00:35:59.680 They'll claim it's 2%.

00:36:01.200 Yeah.

00:36:02.280 And I hate that.

00:36:03.380 I, I think, I think it leads to, you know, sheep like behavior and it, it, it leads people

00:36:11.820 to, it, it sort of convinces MPs that they have less power than they actually do.

00:36:15.620 So I don't want to reinforce that with the law that says, uh, you know, who you are doesn't

00:36:23.560 matter.

00:36:24.160 What matters is what the name, uh, on the, what the party name on the ballot was.

00:36:29.500 But at the same time, I think if it were a convention, which clearly isn't, uh, that,

00:36:36.060 that would be, um, preferable to me.

00:36:39.040 I just wanted to flag another really interesting thing in that poll, which was that, um, so if

00:36:45.140 you look at the liberals, the conservatives, 10%, um, of both the liberal and conservative

00:36:51.440 voters, 10% said they voted primarily for the, uh, local candidate, but among liberals,

00:36:57.660 63% said they voted primarily for the leader conservatives, 37% primarily for the leader.

00:37:06.640 So I'm not even sure what, what that flags to me, but it seems like it flags something

00:37:12.260 about the carny polyev dynamic.

00:37:15.660 And just so that people know that the total numbers, Chris said only 14% say they vote

00:37:21.160 for the local candidate, 39% of all Canadians say they vote for the party and 47% say they

00:37:27.680 vote for the leader.

00:37:29.600 And then just, I'm going to read out some numbers.

00:37:32.240 I told you what people, uh, thought should happen, uh, and should, um, should floor crossings

00:37:39.740 be allowed.

00:37:40.840 Um, you know, it really does vary by, by party.

00:37:45.320 So 42% of all Canadians say that, um, that, uh, floor crossing should not be, uh, allowed

00:37:56.100 again, uh, in 38% or yeah, 42% say it should be allowed 38% say no.

00:38:02.900 But when you go to, uh, conservatives, conservatives right now say 63% say no, it shouldn't be allowed.

00:38:09.480 62% of liberals say it shouldn't.

00:38:11.820 And it's 20% roughly in, in the, uh, in the other camp for each of them.

00:38:17.400 If you change government and people were crossing the floor for the, to the conservatives, they

00:38:23.100 would definitely stick with it and love it.

00:38:25.540 So let's turn to Matt Jenneru specifically.

00:38:29.200 Here's the guy that was rumored to be looking to cross the floor to the, um, to the liberals

00:38:35.900 back in November when Chris Donchermont did.

00:38:38.760 And, and then quickly put out a weird statement saying he wasn't crossing the floor and please

00:38:44.360 leave my family alone.

00:38:45.960 Uh, why?

00:38:47.240 Um, that was odd.

00:38:49.540 And then said he had to go spend more time with his family.

00:38:52.040 He was, uh, moving to Victoria, which is where he lives now.

00:38:57.060 He doesn't even live in Edmonton, hasn't spent much time there.

00:39:00.240 Uh, and then according to a good rundown timeline by the Toronto star, the, the conservatives

00:39:09.160 were working with him to select the candidate for the upcoming by-election a week or so before

00:39:14.780 he crossed the floor.

00:39:15.680 What do you make of his personal decision, Chris, to say, okay, I know I said all these

00:39:22.020 things before, but now I'm moving on.

00:39:25.000 Well, it's absolutely shameless.

00:39:27.020 I mean, I, I, I, I don't understand that how someone does what you just described and

00:39:36.360 then looks themselves in the mirror every morning.

00:39:38.960 But then I'd say I've said that about a lot of politicians over the years and not just

00:39:44.340 the ones who crossed the floor.

00:39:46.260 Um, it's, you know, there's a fair amount of money in politics, not, uh, not just at the

00:39:57.980 time you're sitting as an MP, but afterwards, you know, it looks good on a resume.

00:40:01.960 So it all comes out in the wash.

00:40:05.860 It seems like for most of these, for most of these people.

00:40:09.080 And, uh, I mean, it's completely disreputable.

00:40:11.700 And I, as Lawrence says, I, I don't, I don't see how he wins, uh, Edmonton

00:40:17.520 Riverbend, uh, even if Carney, uh, continues sort of.

00:40:22.700 Does, does he have a reputation left in Edmonton, Lauren?

00:40:26.520 No, but to be quite frank, he didn't have much of a reputation to start with.

00:40:32.540 He's not the best known, uh, MP in the city.

00:40:36.000 He's not even the best known backbencher in the city.

00:40:39.180 Uh, our own, uh, MP, a guy named Kelly McCauley is much better known.

00:40:45.080 Uh, and he's always been a backbencher.

00:40:47.140 He's not a critic.

00:40:48.500 Um, but Matt Jenner, you know, when they, when they said Matt Jenner was resigning rather

00:40:55.520 than crossing the floor, I had to scratch my head to remember what writing he represented

00:41:01.220 because he, he just doesn't make much of an impression.

00:41:03.660 Kind of Chesterton's old adage about journalism.

00:41:06.760 Journalism is informing the public that Lord Jones died when they didn't know that Lawrence

00:41:10.540 Jones, Lord Jones ever lived.

00:41:12.780 Um, Matt who, oh, right.

00:41:15.860 That guy, I saw him once.

00:41:17.500 Um, but what does it mean for Polyev's leadership?

00:41:24.480 He just passed his leadership review with 87% of the vote.

00:41:28.500 I was there in Calgary.

00:41:30.660 I went to go see, was there a movement to try and unseat him?

00:41:34.840 Were there dissenters?

00:41:36.220 It was hard to find people dissenting.

00:41:39.240 The worst you would hear is, well, who else is there?

00:41:42.800 That was kind of the gist and a lot of strong vocal support for him, by the way, that was

00:41:48.140 more common than who else is there.

00:41:50.140 But with a third floor crossing in the potential for a carny majority, is this bad for Polyev 1.00

00:41:57.920 or good?

00:41:58.820 Does someone ambitious waiting in the wings now say, aha, the leader's weak.

00:42:05.140 Now's my chance.

00:42:06.480 That's what Polyev and the people around him did with Aaron O'Toole.

00:42:09.740 Yeah, that's the most ambitious person to try and get rid of Polyev was having his own 0.98

00:42:16.340 convention the same weekend in Ontario.

00:42:20.440 And I know Doug Ford says he doesn't want the job.

00:42:23.940 It's not what he wants. 0.99

00:42:25.020 But that, I think, is a load of rubbish. 0.96

00:42:28.220 He does want the job. 0.98

00:42:29.760 He's cozied up to to Carney on at least a couple of occasions.

00:42:34.140 Apparently, he was giving advice to Carney about when to hold an election.

00:42:37.060 And the only reason that would work for Ford, it's not because he wants Carney to do well.

00:42:42.120 It's because he wants Carney to beat Polyev.

00:42:44.760 Polyev is fine within the party.

00:42:47.240 Even with this latest floor crossing, he still has strong support within the party.

00:42:53.300 But if he loses another election, a lot of that goes away.

00:42:58.040 And he doesn't have strong support beyond the members of the party.

00:43:01.980 So he hasn't got a lot of growth potential in an election because he just doesn't appeal

00:43:09.320 to people other than the base in the party.

00:43:12.540 And so I think he survives this.

00:43:14.580 I don't think it's a real threat to his leadership, but it is a threat to him winning the next election.

00:43:20.280 And if he loses another election, he's up.

00:43:22.600 I'll give you a quick list on why I don't think Doug Ford is going to be the next conservative

00:43:27.400 leader.

00:43:27.740 And then I'll let Chris weigh in with his view.

00:43:30.900 So you said he's cozied up to Carney.

00:43:34.920 How does he become conservative leader and then say, you got to elect me. 1.00

00:43:39.080 This guy's a load of crap. 1.00

00:43:40.560 He can't speak French. 1.00

00:43:42.440 He doesn't like leaving Etobicoke, the suburban part of Toronto that he lives in.

00:43:46.740 So can you imagine him spending all of his time in Ottawa?

00:43:49.880 He would hate it.

00:43:50.900 Uh, I, and these are not issues that he actually likes or cares about.

00:43:55.100 So I know that some part of him wants to be prime minister.

00:43:58.900 If you have people in your ear telling you, yeah, you'd be great at it.

00:44:02.180 Who wouldn't think about it?

00:44:03.840 But in terms of practicality, I think it's a non-starter.

00:44:08.620 And, and two, I, he'd do well in some parts and horribly in others.

00:44:13.080 It, and, and I think part of where he'd do horribly would be Alberta where I hear nothing 0.84

00:44:17.780 but trash talking about, uh, of Doug Ford. 0.79

00:44:20.240 Yeah. 0.96

00:44:20.800 No question.

00:44:21.740 My question.

00:44:22.280 He, he is almost as unpopular here as Justin Trudeau.

00:44:26.580 Chris, your thoughts on Doug Ford, uh, being the guy that wants to replace, uh, Polyev? 1.00

00:44:32.660 No, I, I mean, oh, so, I mean, he may well want to, um, you know, he, he's been doubted

00:44:40.260 at, uh, every stage and is now premier of Ontario.

00:44:46.740 And to my eye can be premier of Ontario for life at this point, uh, as it stands.

00:44:53.880 I mean, he's never faced, he's never faced a liberal leader in the legislature.

00:45:02.340 He was first elected in 2018.

00:45:04.020 Like that's madness.

00:45:05.460 So the liberals, the NEP are never going to win.

00:45:09.040 So, so that people get what Chris is saying here though.

00:45:11.540 Let's explain Kathleen Wynne resigned as leader.

00:45:15.400 They haven't had a leader with a seat since then in 2018.

00:45:20.500 That's why he's never faced a liberal leader.

00:45:23.840 And, and by the way, the NDP is the official opposition, but you wouldn't know it.

00:45:27.400 And you wouldn't know who the leader of that party is.

00:45:29.900 Exactly.

00:45:30.560 So I, I, like what he really wants to be as mayor of Toronto, but you know, being premier

00:45:36.940 of Ontario, you can pretty much be mayor of Toronto if you want to be, because you could

00:45:41.520 do anything you want to Toronto.

00:45:43.300 To me, the, the bigger threat to Polyev's leadership than these floor crossings, which

00:45:48.740 like I, like within the party, I could see some people thinking, oh, he's losing control

00:45:56.960 of it.

00:45:57.280 Although his leadership review would suggest not, but in the broader electorate, I don't

00:46:03.700 think people care about that.

00:46:05.000 To me, the, the biggest problem for Polyev is the NDP absolutely.

00:46:12.140 I mean, this leadership race is like, I'm not sure they'll win a seat.

00:46:18.000 I mean, Alexandra Boulary is, is, is defecting supposedly to Quebec Solidarity and he's going

00:46:24.740 into provincial politics because he doesn't think, and that's their last MP in Quebec.

00:46:28.420 Like, I mean, and a strong MP.

00:46:32.080 Yeah.

00:46:32.800 I mean, it's just like, to me, and, and that was kind of the story of the last election,

00:46:40.340 right?

00:46:40.520 Was that the conservatives did so much better than any party for many years in terms of

00:46:46.920 the popular vote, but the liberals did a little bit better because the NDP collapsed.

00:46:53.760 So that to me is the biggest threat.

00:46:56.280 Um, I mean, not, not just to Polyev, but to the, the conservatives.

00:47:00.500 Harper doesn't win, uh, 10, 15 years ago, uh, without a strong NDP presence because they

00:47:09.820 take away just enough liberal votes that the conservatives can sneak in.

00:47:13.200 As long as the liberals are unopposed on the left, they get to be the government for as long

00:47:19.400 as they want.

00:47:19.800 Well, I think the conservatives have to come up with a way to, to fix that.

00:47:24.360 And, and I'm not sure what that is, but that may be the new normal, especially if someone

00:47:30.780 like Avi Lewis wins the leadership of the NDP.

00:47:34.940 I mean, he was out there the other day in their leadership debate talking about the need

00:47:40.400 for government run grocery stores, government run cell phone companies, government run internet

00:47:45.620 providers, and a government owned and run bank through Canada post.

00:47:51.540 They can't deliver your mail properly, but sure.

00:47:54.040 I'm going to give them my money.

00:47:55.840 That's what the kids want.

00:47:57.140 Postal banking.

00:47:57.960 That makes him more reasonable than Heather McPherson, who is the other major candidate who

00:48:04.460 is totally obsessed, completely obsessed with Palestine, Hamas, and the destruction of Israel.

00:48:13.040 That's, I don't know.

00:48:14.140 I would say Avi Lewis is just as obsessed.

00:48:16.140 I'm not sure Avi Lewis is much better on that front.

00:48:18.380 Yeah.

00:48:18.740 No, I think, I think, I mean, sometimes I see Avi Lewis make an announcement that doesn't

00:48:24.580 involve Israel or, or Gaza and think, well, what does this have to do with Israel and

00:48:28.900 Gaza? 0.52

00:48:29.200 Like, yeah, it seems like the NDP wants to run for the, um, the, the parliament that Donald

00:48:37.120 Trump's going to set up with his board of peace and the reformed Gaza.

00:48:40.460 Well, it's a, it's a leadership race, right?

00:48:42.280 I mean, those are always different than, than general elections, but you still say what

00:48:46.500 you say and it's on the record, uh, and, and it's going to be used against you.

00:48:51.700 Where's the economic approach from the NDP who used to be the assembly line workers, uh,

00:48:59.320 party, uh, and then they became the faculty club party.

00:49:03.520 Uh, they lost an awful lot of the, an awful lot of their private sector union support,

00:49:10.020 but at least they had teachers and professors and civil servants of whom there is a large

00:49:16.240 growing number in this because they can't even win that group anymore.

00:49:20.400 So assuming that the NDP does not resurrect with their next leader, and I, I'm expecting

00:49:27.340 Audrey McDonough type energy from the next NDP leader, Alexa, Alexa McDonough.

00:49:33.480 Yeah.

00:49:33.680 Yeah.

00:49:33.780 Sorry.

00:49:34.260 Combining Audrey McLaughlin and Alexa McDonough combined two people, both, both of them were

00:49:39.520 not good performers.

00:49:41.120 So assuming it's that level of excitement among the electorate, what do the conservatives do

00:49:47.360 to still have a chance at winning with a very weak NDP?

00:49:53.960 Get a new leader.

00:49:56.720 Lauren says, no, I don't know.

00:49:58.680 I don't have anything against Pierre Polyev, but I, I, I agree with Lauren that I don't see

00:50:02.760 how he has room to grow.

00:50:04.480 And then in a, if the NDP collapses, I don't see how, I just don't see another path.

00:50:11.540 Well, and I, and I don't see, uh, I don't see how the liberals become so unpopular between

00:50:19.440 now and the end of the year or the middle of next year, whenever elections are held.

00:50:25.320 I don't see how they become so unpopular that they lose.

00:50:28.880 It is their election to, to lose, uh, and they're not going to, I mean, certainly central

00:50:35.380 Canadians have, have cozied up to Mark Carney.

00:50:39.140 Certainly our colleagues at the globe and the CBC and the star all think he's dreamy.

00:50:46.020 Um, and, and they're, they buy into his, his shtick against Trump.

00:50:52.600 Um, and so, so do a lot of people in your cohort, Lauren, it's a boomer voters love them.

00:50:58.880 Yeah, but not out here.

00:51:02.120 Um, so I, I, no, I say, uh, there, I don't see a way new leader, no new leader, uh, how

00:51:12.620 the conservatives beat the liberals in the next election.

00:51:15.820 I, I'm predicting the liberals will go north of 200 seats, maybe close to 220.

00:51:21.360 Like it's just going to be a bloodbath.

00:51:25.860 So you're, you're predicting juggernaut.

00:51:28.600 Yep.

00:51:29.600 All right.

00:51:30.100 Well, I hope it's a Paul Martin type juggernaut and maybe the higher David Hurley, who believes

00:51:35.120 Jamil Giovanni is too ugly for politics to, uh, uh, to try and run all of this, but we shall

00:51:41.960 see.

00:51:42.640 Uh, gents, we'll leave it at that. 0.97

00:51:44.540 And, uh, I'm sure we'll talk again in the coming weeks or months.

00:51:47.620 Once, uh, Mark Carney has secured his majority, whether it's by floor crossings, by elections

00:51:53.340 or a general election.

00:51:54.900 Thanks so much.

00:51:56.080 Thanks, Brian.

00:51:56.740 Full comment is a post media podcast.

00:51:58.920 My name is Brian Lilly, your host.

00:52:00.600 This episode was produced by Andre Proulx, theme music by Bryce Hall.

00:52:04.460 Kevin Libin is the executive producer.

00:52:06.560 Make sure you hit subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, give us a like, leave us a review,

00:52:12.260 tell your friends about us.

00:52:13.500 Thanks for listening.

00:52:14.240 Until next time, I'm Brian Lilly.

00:52:17.620 There were so many missed opportunities to catch this before the devastating thing happened.

00:52:28.720 A third of them we found literally in the phone book.

00:52:32.240 These people were not afraid.

00:52:34.460 They knew that nobody was effectively hunting them.

00:52:37.100 They knew they had escaped justice, that they were going to die in their beds.

00:52:41.400 When I give talks at law schools is that the charter ultimately is empowering a minority

00:52:45.180 and it's empowering a minority that's a guild across the country.

00:52:48.360 And it's a fairly elite guild and the guild is lawyers.

00:52:50.360 Families who were split by referendum and brothers and sisters who never talked to each

00:52:56.680 other for years after the referendum because they were so angry at each other because of

00:53:01.140 the emotions on both sides.

00:53:03.000 The reason he was assassinated was not because he was trying to put a satellite into space,

00:53:07.820 but because the gun that he was creating had other applications that made him and the gun very dangerous.

00:53:17.680 It's finally here.

00:53:19.660 A new season of Canada Did What?

00:53:22.020 Host media podcast that revisits the big Canadian political events you might think you remember

00:53:27.400 and tells you the real story you never knew.

00:53:30.580 I'm Tristan Hopper.

00:53:31.860 The voices you just heard are from our brand new season two.

00:53:35.780 We will unpack some of the pivotal moments that helped define our country,

00:53:39.520 often without a vote, usually without a plan,

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00:53:53.580 We let them build monuments to their wartime exploits

00:53:56.340 and even ended up honoring a Nazi fighter in the House of Commons.

00:54:00.400 And I'm sorry to say that none of that happened by accident.

00:54:03.980 We'll bring you the little-known story of a troubled Canadian rocket scientist

00:54:07.820 who turned to a sinister life of selling giant guns to terrible people.

00:54:12.580 And if that sounds like a spy novel, it ends like one too.

00:54:16.640 You'll hear the behind-the-scenes story of Quebec's attempted secession from Canada

00:54:20.440 and how very close we came to a political crisis

00:54:23.680 that would have made Brexit look like a picnic.

00:54:26.840 You'll hear about how the much-celebrated Charter of Rights and Freedoms

00:54:30.720 turned into something its creators never wanted

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00:54:37.060 were all quickly proven true.

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00:54:49.780 These aren't dusty history lessons.

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Full Comment - February 23, 2026

Canadian politics plays right into the Carney Liberals’ hands

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