Full Comment - Danielle Smith challenges Trudeau to call an election

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00:01:58.720 Alberta is one of the most stunningly beautiful parts of this country.

00:02:10.160 But often when it's in the news, especially in eastern Canada, it gets a certain portrayal that isn't exactly favorable.

00:02:17.300 Backwater hick, Alberta. Uncultured, Alberta.

00:02:20.880 And yet, if you've actually visited the place, you know none of those things are true.

00:02:24.680 It's a wonderfully vibrant economy.

00:02:27.420 It's a wonderfully vibrant culture in big cities like Calgary and Edmonton or smaller centers, be it High River, Red Deer, what have you.

00:02:35.120 I wanted to take some time and speak with Alberta Premier Danielle Smith this week on the Full Comment Podcast.

00:02:41.120 Hello, my name is Brian Lilly, host of the Full Comment Podcast.

00:02:44.000 And we're going to talk about the issues surrounding her gender policy, her ongoing fights with Ottawa, which include the gender policy,

00:02:52.480 and also what Alberta is about and what it's offering, why it felt it had to open an embassy in Ottawa.

00:02:58.900 It will give you an insight into the province that you probably won't get elsewhere unless you're already in Alberta,

00:03:04.680 because, as I said, far too often the province is portrayed in ways that don't match up with reality.

00:03:10.560 We were able to join Alberta Premier Danielle Smith from her office in Calgary.

00:03:15.700 Premier Smith, thanks for the time today.

00:03:17.160 My pleasure. Nice to talk to you, Brian.

00:03:19.460 I thought I was going to be opening up with your new statement that came out about taxation, about the Heritage Fund.

00:03:28.220 And I thought, well, the issue of gender and your gender policy is a bit in the rearview mirror now.

00:03:33.320 But then the prime minister brought it all back up.

00:03:35.480 He was in Edmonton just a few days ago and really going after you, both while he was there at a news conference and online since.

00:03:44.520 He's taken a very different and aggressive tone compared to you.

00:03:51.020 What's your response to him?

00:03:52.220 Do you think that he actually understands your policy, which seems to have widespread support?

00:03:58.320 Well, I think the reason our policy has widespread support is because it's so reasonable.

00:04:03.240 I mean, I started with having met with many transgender individuals over the years,

00:04:07.780 knowing that we have a bit of gap in our medical support for those who have transitioned,

00:04:13.100 especially when it comes to a surgical aftercare, as well as the long-term support for hormone therapy

00:04:19.600 and the impacts that has on a person for their lifetime.

00:04:23.440 So we started by saying those are the gaps we need to fill.

00:04:26.060 And then it begins the conversation about at what point should someone make the decision to make life-changing

00:04:32.520 and unalterable decisions to their body that will affect their ability to have kids.

00:04:39.540 And it just seems evident that over 18, these are adult decisions.

00:04:45.000 And so over 18 is the age that we felt was appropriate to be making surgical decisions.

00:04:49.960 But when you start getting onto puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones,

00:04:54.560 that also starts you down a path that could lead to infertility. 0.99

00:04:57.600 So we wanted to make sure that the decisions were made at an age that a child is able to fully comprehend

00:05:02.980 the consequences of what they're choosing.

00:05:04.720 So we put a ban in place on age 15 and under, being on those types of treatments.

00:05:09.660 We want to make sure that families have support with mental health support and good counseling

00:05:14.780 so that as kids are figuring this out, the whole family is involved in it

00:05:18.240 because it really is an entire family affair.

00:05:21.640 So we wanted to ensure that the schools were working alongside parents

00:05:25.960 to make sure those kids receive support as opposed to keeping secrets.

00:05:29.160 And so if it is the case that a child is transitioned at school

00:05:32.940 and everyone knows and the teacher is calling them by a different name and different pronouns

00:05:37.300 and it's part of the school record, the families have to be involved in that.

00:05:41.340 And then the final piece, of course, was on transgender athletes,

00:05:45.100 who I think we've heard from many female-born athletes,

00:05:48.180 how unfair they feel that it is to compete against somebody who was male-born.

00:05:52.240 And so we want to ensure everyone has an option to participate in sports.

00:05:55.380 So more co-ed and all-gender categories, but also making sure that those sports,

00:06:00.840 where especially there's an advantage to those who are male-born,

00:06:04.160 that we have a biological female-only category.

00:06:06.640 So I think we got the right balance.

00:06:08.620 And I think that there's a sort of a smear that the prime minister is trying to bring forward

00:06:14.660 against all parents who want to be involved in these really crucial decisions for their kids.

00:06:20.080 And I think the reason why people are on our side on it is they realize that it's very reasonable and balanced.

00:06:25.860 Well, I think what was lost in much of the coverage of your announcement several weeks ago now

00:06:31.940 was that you did start with the decision of saying,

00:06:36.740 OK, look, there are gaps in care for people who are going through a transition.

00:06:43.540 We will look after that.

00:06:45.080 We will provide supports.

00:06:46.200 That was pretty much ignored.

00:06:48.580 And it was portrayed as you attacking the trans community.

00:06:54.000 And nothing could be further from the truth.

00:06:55.540 Right now, the transgender surgeries that we pay for are being performed in Quebec.

00:07:01.060 And I can tell you that I just received a briefing, though,

00:07:05.100 that says the thalloplasty actually has a 100% complication rate.

00:07:09.440 So if you're going to have complications with that kind of surgery,

00:07:12.460 you darn well better have people trained up and on-site and on-hand to be able to deal with that.

00:07:16.620 So that's been very much on my mind, is that when people make these kinds of decisions

00:07:21.140 that are going to result in a greater need for very specialized care,

00:07:26.240 then we've got to make sure that we're bridging that gap.

00:07:28.780 And that is the starting point for us.

00:07:30.840 But I think when we were talking about what occurs when someone goes through a transition,

00:07:36.880 we have to be very clear about it.

00:07:38.160 Because if you do end up removing your reproductive organs, you're not able to have kids. 0.51

00:07:42.940 And if you start on to puberty blockers and don't go through puberty,

00:07:46.400 you're not able to have kids.

00:07:48.080 And so I think that we have to make a decision about at what age should a child make that decision.

00:07:53.500 And I think most studies and most assessment points to age 16 and 17 being the age that kids are able to understand

00:08:01.920 the long-term consequences associated with that kind of decision.

00:08:05.920 And so that's why we put that out there as the starting point.

00:08:09.880 So we're going to continue to get feedback as we implement.

00:08:13.240 But the overwhelming feedback that we're getting is that we struck the right balance.

00:08:17.040 And polling would seem to indicate that.

00:08:20.720 But the prime minister is portraying this as an attack that will lead to suicides,

00:08:29.000 an attack on the trans community, on the LGBTQ plus community,

00:08:33.520 that it is far-right politicians, that it's social conservatives.

00:08:37.000 Anybody calling you a social conservative has never spent five minutes talking to you

00:08:43.140 because that is definitely not where you come from within politics unless things have changed.

00:08:48.520 But as long as I've known you, that has not been something that I would describe to you.

00:08:53.140 So how do you respond to the very personal and politicized attacks that you're facing,

00:09:01.280 be it from the prime minister or from an awful lot in the media who don't seem to look at the issue,

00:09:07.260 don't seem to look at the balance in your position, the polling, where people are at?

00:09:16.000 They just, you know, you've got the majority of people on your side,

00:09:19.600 and yet you're the one constantly called controversial.

00:09:23.160 Well, I would say that I hope that there's some good reporting done

00:09:26.480 on the changing clinical practice around the world

00:09:29.500 because there have been other jurisdictions that took a look at this

00:09:33.560 and realized that the process of diagnosing gender dysphoria needs more rigor.

00:09:39.440 And so there are also, in places like the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, Finland, Norway, Sweden,

00:09:45.620 that they're also questioning the clinical practice and developing new criteria and guidelines.

00:09:52.020 And so we in politics have to be alive to the fact

00:09:55.340 that there are alternative views in the medical industry and among medical professionals.

00:10:01.860 And I know that there's this reflexive approach that seems to be taken in Canada

00:10:06.240 where once a narrative sets in, everybody assumes that there's no dissenting or alternative ways

00:10:12.160 at looking at complicated issues.

00:10:14.160 I have always taken a different view.

00:10:15.900 Maybe it's because of the history that I've had.

00:10:17.800 I think it's very important for us to not be closed-minded

00:10:21.320 and to be aware that there are changing clinical practices

00:10:24.660 and we have to be prepared to respond to that.

00:10:26.720 So I don't accept what the Prime Minister is saying.

00:10:29.820 I know that he's trying to get people angry and worked up.

00:10:32.580 I have always looked at this through the perspective of the child.

00:10:35.360 I don't think that it does children any good to feel like somehow they're going to be rejected.

00:10:39.900 And the approach that has been taken so far

00:10:41.900 where there's this notion that teachers should be keeping secrets from families,

00:10:46.900 I think that's outrageous.

00:10:48.900 We have to make sure that that child is supported.

00:10:51.880 And loving parents and loving families want to know what's going on with their kids.

00:10:56.320 That has got to be the starting point that we have.

00:10:58.380 We have to trust that we're going to make sure that parents and kids stay together

00:11:04.580 because that's the fact of the matter

00:11:05.860 is that when somebody makes this kind of life-altering decision,

00:11:08.700 a teacher is sort of a temporary influence in their life.

00:11:12.660 A family is a permanent influence in a person's life.

00:11:15.340 And I've been quite alarmed to see some of the discussion

00:11:18.060 that thinks that parents and families should be kept out of the mix.

00:11:20.760 We need to know that as kids are walking these journeys,

00:11:23.360 that they have their loving family members with them every step of the way.

00:11:26.900 Well, the unfortunate part in my view,

00:11:29.500 and I'd like to hear your thoughts on this,

00:11:32.180 is that there is a...

00:11:33.880 they begin at the starting point

00:11:37.760 that families are inherently dangerous to their children.

00:11:40.880 And we all know that some parents are not going to be accepting,

00:11:44.560 that some parents will be abusive.

00:11:46.760 But that is the exception, not the rule.

00:11:49.480 And the prime minister and critics of,

00:11:51.920 many critics of your position and your policy,

00:11:55.100 start with the idea that

00:11:56.880 teachers need to protect children from families at all times.

00:12:01.180 To me, that is fundamentally wrong and backwards.

00:12:05.860 And I tend to agree with you.

00:12:08.040 We know that there are lots of reasons

00:12:10.960 why kids could potentially be at risk in a home environment.

00:12:14.660 It's part of the reason why we have Child Protective Services.

00:12:18.380 It's a very sad reality that there are some people who are not good parents

00:12:21.920 and some kids who are at risk for a whole variety of reasons.

00:12:25.420 But we can't presume that because some kids

00:12:29.960 have come into the Child Protective Services

00:12:33.820 that all families are bad.

00:12:35.500 I think we have to start from the starting point

00:12:37.180 that families support their kids, parents love their children.

00:12:40.560 And if we do have a very small number of cases

00:12:43.360 where a child has to be removed to be put into Child Protective Services,

00:12:48.100 then we'll be prepared to do that.

00:12:49.700 There's no justification for any child being abused or feeling at risk.

00:12:55.320 And so we want to make sure that those kids are feeling supported.

00:12:58.780 But by having your starting point be that families are going to reject,

00:13:04.740 families are not going to be supportive,

00:13:06.800 that's outrageous.

00:13:08.060 That is not the case in the vast, vast majority of cases.

00:13:11.380 And I don't think kids should be given any kind of indication

00:13:13.880 that they're going to be rejected by their families.

00:13:17.000 Parents love their kids.

00:13:17.820 And parents want to know what's going on with their kids.

00:13:19.740 That's the bottom line.

00:13:20.840 Okay, last point on this issue.

00:13:22.400 We had Julia Malata on a little while ago, 0.99

00:13:25.000 a trans woman who said,

00:13:27.860 look, I'm not very good at sports,

00:13:28.980 but here's my thoughts on the sports issue.

00:13:31.380 Fully agrees with you that there are times

00:13:33.320 where biological males have an advantage, 0.97

00:13:36.960 but in other sports do not.

00:13:39.040 And so she was actually quite complimentary

00:13:41.460 of your position on sport,

00:13:43.900 but said, you know,

00:13:44.620 there are some sports where you could just do it

00:13:47.220 by weight and height class and things like that.

00:13:49.940 You're pretty open, aren't you?

00:13:51.280 You're not saying a complete ban

00:13:53.520 on trans women in female sports.

00:13:56.660 You're saying, let's figure it out.

00:13:58.840 Let's figure out where we need to have

00:14:01.280 a biological female-only category 1.00

00:14:03.600 and make sure that women and girls 0.81

00:14:06.160 are able to participate in that category.

00:14:08.560 I mean, one of the things to remember,

00:14:09.760 maybe people don't know exactly

00:14:12.860 how vitally important participation in sports are

00:14:15.440 to a person's long-term aspirations in life.

00:14:19.120 But 97% of women who end up in leadership positions 0.99

00:14:23.700 played some kind of collegiate sport

00:14:26.220 or high school sports on a sports team.

00:14:28.780 So we don't want to create an environment

00:14:30.500 where girls aren't challenging themselves 1.00

00:14:32.940 because they're fearful that they can't compete,

00:14:35.500 they're fearful that they might get hurt,

00:14:37.060 or they're fearful that they're not going to be competitive

00:14:38.820 because of an unfair advantage.

00:14:40.380 We want to ensure that this is the reason

00:14:42.640 why we had a female sporting category to begin with. 0.90

00:14:46.300 It's why we wanted to have more young women 1.00

00:14:48.280 and girls participating in sports.

00:14:50.440 And so we want to make sure that that becomes an option.

00:14:52.700 And it's quite true.

00:14:53.900 There are certain sports where it's immaterial.

00:14:57.160 I remember watching a show jumping competition,

00:14:59.920 and in the end, it was sort of a middle-aged male rider

00:15:02.680 up against a young female rider,

00:15:04.460 and she ended up winning.

00:15:05.780 So there are some sports where you can have

00:15:08.400 across all gender, it can be co-ed,

00:15:11.660 and we want to make sure that we're embracing

00:15:13.100 all of those options.

00:15:14.980 Let's stay with the prime minister

00:15:16.940 and the relationship that he has with both you

00:15:19.180 and with your province,

00:15:21.180 because there are times when you've surprised people,

00:15:25.020 not necessarily me,

00:15:26.040 but you've surprised people by working closely with them,

00:15:28.680 including on the health accord.

00:15:30.840 You obviously needed to sign a health deal,

00:15:33.940 and you came to an agreement

00:15:35.140 that both sides could work with.

00:15:36.420 Maybe not everyone's not happy about all points,

00:15:39.180 but you found agreement.

00:15:40.600 And you've done that several times,

00:15:42.580 but still, Alberta seems to be

00:15:46.200 a prime target for this prime minister

00:15:51.480 in this government.

00:15:52.780 Do you feel that Alberta is under attack

00:15:56.260 from Ottawa far too often

00:15:57.780 by Justin Trudeau and his administration?

00:16:01.320 Well, you know, I wanted to give the prime minister

00:16:03.020 the benefit of the doubt that he made a decision

00:16:06.320 to put Stephen Guibault in the environment ministry,

00:16:09.520 and that he wanted to give him the latitude

00:16:11.560 to bring policy forward.

00:16:13.180 But a leader also has to know

00:16:15.600 that when their minister is going off

00:16:19.020 in a direction that is harmful to the country,

00:16:21.480 harmful to national unity,

00:16:23.180 when they're proposing policies

00:16:24.640 that are unachievable and impractical,

00:16:26.960 when they're creating that kind of division,

00:16:28.800 it's the job of a leader to step in,

00:16:30.000 whoa, and say, whoa, hold on a minute.

00:16:31.860 There might be something that I need

00:16:33.220 to do some course correction on here.

00:16:34.620 So I've been giving the prime minister

00:16:35.700 to the benefit of the doubt

00:16:36.700 that he understands that a net zero power grid

00:16:39.720 in Alberta is not achievable,

00:16:41.180 that he understands that a 2030 emissions target

00:16:44.620 that's too aggressive is actually a production cap,

00:16:46.820 that he has no business doing,

00:16:49.520 trying to put forward a policy

00:16:51.140 to have zero emissions vehicles sold 100% by 2035,

00:16:56.360 that when his minister said

00:16:58.640 that we're not building roads anymore

00:17:00.420 after everybody's going through the effort

00:17:02.320 of trying to invest in zero emissions vehicles,

00:17:04.580 like at what point does the prime minister step in

00:17:07.880 and say that his minister of environment

00:17:10.300 has gone completely off the rails?

00:17:11.640 And so that's what I've been encouraging him to do,

00:17:14.180 to come to the table,

00:17:15.380 to work collaboratively with those of us

00:17:16.920 who want to find a solution.

00:17:18.780 I've put forward an emissions reduction

00:17:20.520 and energy development plan

00:17:21.700 that would get us to carbon neutrality by 2050.

00:17:23.920 That's our target.

00:17:25.740 That's the target of our major trading partners.

00:17:28.620 That's the target we should be working forward together.

00:17:30.940 But we keep having an environment minister

00:17:32.760 that is just pulling things out of thin air

00:17:35.520 that can't be implemented.

00:17:37.280 And I think he has to be accountable for that.

00:17:39.580 He's not just a minister

00:17:40.540 who is picking fights with Alberta.

00:17:44.980 It's every province.

00:17:46.160 I mean, on Bill C-69,

00:17:47.680 it was every single province

00:17:49.460 joined in the court challenge to Bill C-69

00:17:53.920 because this is a minister

00:17:55.920 that definitely goes too far on C-69,

00:17:59.820 on other issues.

00:18:01.460 He seems to be picking fights

00:18:03.080 at a time when the prime minister

00:18:04.640 doesn't need more headaches.

00:18:06.120 Look at the polling numbers.

00:18:07.540 He needs friends.

00:18:08.480 He needs wins.

00:18:09.640 And you don't get that by fighting with everyone.

00:18:12.040 No, you don't.

00:18:12.900 And look, that's where we're heading,

00:18:14.560 where we're heading to an election

00:18:15.760 and he's using Alberta as a punching bag

00:18:17.560 to try to win votes in Eastern Canada.

00:18:19.340 It's the same old story.

00:18:20.460 It happens over and over again.

00:18:21.920 Then let's just do it.

00:18:22.780 Let's just have an election

00:18:23.780 so that this can be resolved one way or another.

00:18:26.440 And if he loses the election,

00:18:28.840 then we move into a different path.

00:18:30.720 And if we win,

00:18:32.540 then perhaps we'll have a more mature

00:18:34.100 professional relationship again.

00:18:35.980 But fighting this kind of campaign battle

00:18:38.560 when we're trying to get things done

00:18:40.760 and trying to behave

00:18:43.020 in a collaborative and cooperative way

00:18:44.600 is not helpful.

00:18:45.800 It was the last election

00:18:47.080 and that was prior to you taking office.

00:18:49.380 But in the last election,

00:18:50.580 he campaigned in B.C.'s lower mainland

00:18:52.840 and in the suburbs of Toronto

00:18:54.520 against Alberta.

00:18:56.140 He went to those places

00:18:57.460 and warned suburban mothers

00:18:58.780 worried about the health of their children.

00:19:00.780 Look at what's happening in Alberta.

00:19:03.040 A COVID spike.

00:19:04.300 Well, if you vote for the conservatives,

00:19:06.120 the federal conservatives,

00:19:07.280 your children are at risk.

00:19:09.460 That is unhelpful to national unity.

00:19:12.980 It is.

00:19:13.800 And it's unacceptable.

00:19:15.240 I mean, the court has come down

00:19:17.520 every time they lose,

00:19:19.320 saying that they have an anticipation,

00:19:21.380 an expectation of cooperative federalism.

00:19:23.660 That means that the federal government

00:19:25.680 cannot just announce unilateral policy

00:19:28.220 in our areas of jurisdiction.

00:19:29.720 And yet they do it time and time and time again.

00:19:32.940 The court calls them out

00:19:34.060 and then it's like they slough it off.

00:19:36.700 They act like the court didn't render a decision.

00:19:38.280 And so this is not the way

00:19:40.460 a constructive confederation works.

00:19:43.060 I get that we have different political views

00:19:45.520 and we've got different ideas

00:19:47.340 about how we want to reach our targets.

00:19:49.920 But I can tell you,

00:19:51.340 when I get to the table with the first ministers,

00:19:53.320 we come from all different perspectives, too.

00:19:55.900 NDP, liberal, conservative.

00:19:58.340 And yet we've managed to find areas of common ground.

00:20:00.620 That's how you're supposed to deal

00:20:01.760 in an environment of cooperative federalism.

00:20:04.480 And I'm just not seeing that the federal government

00:20:06.680 is coming to the table in good faith that way.

00:20:08.540 Well, when the prime minister was in Edmonton recently,

00:20:11.160 it was for a housing announcement.

00:20:12.420 Now, housing is primarily a responsibility

00:20:15.120 of municipalities and then provincial governments.

00:20:17.680 Federal government has the least amount of responsibility.

00:20:19.920 I know he's wearing the issue right now.

00:20:22.000 And that's for political reasons,

00:20:23.960 some of them of his own making.

00:20:26.300 But not to get too wonky,

00:20:28.000 but Quebec said to the federal government,

00:20:31.060 no, you're not going to sign a deal

00:20:32.240 with every municipality.

00:20:33.240 You'll sign a deal with us and we will deal with it.

00:20:36.000 Does it bother you that he's going

00:20:38.040 across the country signing deals

00:20:40.060 directly with municipalities?

00:20:41.580 Should this have gone through the provinces?

00:20:44.220 Because, I mean, if he had,

00:20:45.400 there's only 10 provinces.

00:20:46.860 You can get the changes implemented far quicker

00:20:49.380 than having hundreds.

00:20:52.620 I mean, we've got 400 municipalities in Ontario alone.

00:20:55.360 So you've got a few thousand across the country.

00:20:58.800 Wouldn't it have been wiser to just go to you?

00:21:01.280 I know he doesn't get the photo ops,

00:21:03.100 but wouldn't that have been a better way to do it?

00:21:05.600 Or does this not really matter to you?

00:21:08.040 Well, you know, the thing is,

00:21:09.020 you can do joint press conferences.

00:21:11.000 I've watched with great interest

00:21:12.180 over the last couple of weeks.

00:21:13.280 He's done a joint press conference with Doug Ford,

00:21:15.520 did a joint press conference with Wavcanu,

00:21:17.780 did a joint press conference with David Eby.

00:21:20.000 And then he didn't even really bother

00:21:22.220 to try to set up even so much as a courtesy call with me

00:21:25.320 when he was in our province.

00:21:26.520 So you can see that he is treating Alberta differently

00:21:29.000 and there's no reason for it.

00:21:30.640 We have approached the federal housing minister

00:21:33.240 and said we'd like to work together

00:21:34.800 on a similar type of approach to Quebec

00:21:36.700 where we identify a certain amount of money

00:21:38.540 that we would put up that they would then match.

00:21:40.660 Because I, well, I'm very pleased

00:21:43.040 for both Calgary and Edmonton

00:21:44.340 and some of the other smaller centres

00:21:45.900 that have been able to get these accelerator funds.

00:21:48.940 We've got 350 municipalities in this province as well.

00:21:53.180 And if you've got a federal government

00:21:54.640 that's kind of picking the projects

00:21:56.600 based on who has the best lobbyists,

00:21:58.900 then you're going to be making mistakes

00:22:00.420 and you're going to be missing out

00:22:01.600 on some of the priority areas.

00:22:02.840 That's what we can do as a province

00:22:04.220 is we can, we have the eyesight

00:22:06.640 on which municipalities are really the ones

00:22:09.180 that are doing the work to grow

00:22:11.320 and the areas where people want to move to.

00:22:14.320 We've got about 24 mid-sized municipalities

00:22:16.260 that are just bursting at the seams

00:22:17.740 that need to continue growing.

00:22:19.600 And by not, by failing to work cooperatively with us,

00:22:23.220 he's politicizing something

00:22:24.700 that is an issue that we all care about

00:22:26.120 and we all want to solve together.

00:22:27.740 And it's not helpful.

00:22:28.600 All right, Premier Smith, we have to take a break.

00:22:30.760 When we come back, I do want to ask you

00:22:32.120 about your heritage fund

00:22:32.980 and also your opening of an embassy in Ottawa

00:22:35.740 and trying to sell the province here in Toronto.

00:22:39.340 So more of that when we come back.

00:22:44.020 Bank more encores

00:22:45.280 when you switch to a Scotiabank banking package.

00:22:48.520 Learn more at scotiabank.com slash banking packages.

00:22:52.120 Conditions apply.

00:22:54.080 Scotiabank, you're richer than you think.

00:22:56.320 When I found out my friend got a great deal

00:22:58.440 on a wool coat from Winner's,

00:23:00.080 I started wondering,

00:23:01.720 is every fabulous item I see from Winner's?

00:23:04.820 Like that woman over there with the designer jeans. 1.00

00:23:07.560 Are those from Winner's?

00:23:09.080 Ooh, or those beautiful gold earrings.

00:23:11.540 Did she pay full price?

00:23:12.900 Or that leather tote?

00:23:13.900 Or that cashmere sweater?

00:23:15.100 Or those knee-high boots?

00:23:16.580 That dress?

00:23:17.360 That jacket?

00:23:18.040 Those shoes?

00:23:19.060 Is anyone paying full price for anything?

00:23:21.960 Stop wondering.

00:23:23.280 Start winning.

00:23:24.220 Winners.

00:23:24.780 Find fabulous for less.

00:23:26.200 So, Premier Smith,

00:23:27.620 you announced that you'd like to get the Heritage Fund

00:23:30.380 up to, what is it,

00:23:31.700 between $250 and $400 billion?

00:23:35.320 Did I hear that correctly?

00:23:36.520 With a B?

00:23:37.860 That is right.

00:23:39.420 You know,

00:23:39.640 when you look back on the history of our province,

00:23:41.920 and if we had just had

00:23:43.020 a sustained amount of investment

00:23:45.180 in the Heritage Savings Trust Fund

00:23:46.660 from that original deposit,

00:23:48.380 just allowing it to grow.

00:23:49.360 Hold on.

00:23:49.980 I should stop you there

00:23:51.240 and back up a little bit

00:23:52.180 because I'm sure not everyone knows

00:23:53.580 what the Heritage Fund is.

00:23:54.880 I do.

00:23:55.420 Tell us what this is

00:23:56.480 because that helps explain

00:23:58.080 why you think it should be a lot bigger now.

00:24:01.540 Of course.

00:24:02.280 So, our Heritage Trust Fund

00:24:03.540 began under Peter Lougheed

00:24:05.360 with his vision in,

00:24:06.960 I believe, 1976,

00:24:08.400 where he wanted to deposit

00:24:10.520 a third of the resource royalties

00:24:12.440 that came in

00:24:13.240 with the idea

00:24:14.080 that it would grow over time.

00:24:15.820 Now, of course,

00:24:16.460 when we ended up

00:24:17.200 with the oil crisis

00:24:17.940 in the early 80s,

00:24:20.080 the deposits stopped,

00:24:21.640 but various governments

00:24:22.500 have made inflation adjustments over time.

00:24:25.000 But pretty well,

00:24:26.620 all of the investment income

00:24:27.700 has been taken into general revenues.

00:24:30.140 And so,

00:24:30.560 we want to take an approach now

00:24:31.680 where we keep that investment income

00:24:32.860 in the fund

00:24:33.380 as well as make periodic deposits

00:24:35.320 and grow the funds

00:24:36.680 so it can be substantial by 2050.

00:24:39.880 And the goal there

00:24:41.180 is that you,

00:24:42.380 that's your goal

00:24:43.940 of getting to net zero.

00:24:44.920 Do you think that by 2050,

00:24:47.640 the oil industry

00:24:48.380 will be moving out of Alberta,

00:24:51.140 that it will be subsiding?

00:24:54.380 Well, I would say

00:24:55.360 that we're moving

00:24:56.340 towards carbon neutrality.

00:24:57.980 I think that there

00:24:59.080 is going to be a demand

00:25:00.180 for our oil and natural gas

00:25:01.900 for the foreseeable future.

00:25:03.700 But I don't know

00:25:04.700 what the world demand

00:25:05.800 is going to be in 2050.

00:25:07.740 And so,

00:25:08.000 we have to plan for a future

00:25:09.100 where our resource

00:25:10.520 might not be as in demand

00:25:11.960 as it is today

00:25:13.700 and make the most of it

00:25:14.940 in the meantime.

00:25:16.420 And Norway has been 0.91

00:25:17.260 very successful in that.

00:25:18.420 There have been

00:25:19.040 other sovereignty funds,

00:25:21.580 I guess you'd call them.

00:25:23.540 And so,

00:25:24.300 the idea is this will help

00:25:25.560 balance out the province

00:25:27.200 and its economy

00:25:28.680 when oil ceases to be

00:25:31.240 as big of a player,

00:25:32.540 as big of a factor.

00:25:33.540 Well, look,

00:25:35.040 I look at what Norway has done. 0.91

00:25:36.860 They started after us

00:25:37.880 and they now have

00:25:38.860 a $1.6 trillion fund.

00:25:41.520 The Alaska Permanent Fund

00:25:42.900 is substantially more than ours

00:25:45.260 and they're able to generate

00:25:46.220 a dividend for their people

00:25:47.420 every single year.

00:25:48.720 And then the sovereign wealth funds

00:25:50.260 in the Middle East,

00:25:51.220 I spoke when I was

00:25:52.960 in the Middle East,

00:25:53.680 I did end up doing

00:25:54.340 a visit to Qatar.

00:25:55.700 And they were pretty

00:25:56.360 straight up about it.

00:25:57.540 They have an objective

00:25:58.560 to grow their fund

00:25:59.240 to a trillion dollars

00:26:00.520 by 2035

00:26:01.600 on the expectation

00:26:03.460 that perhaps

00:26:04.180 there's not going to be

00:26:04.800 as great a demand

00:26:05.560 for their natural gas.

00:26:07.080 So, it just seems like

00:26:08.200 it's prudent management.

00:26:09.880 If we have the responsibility

00:26:10.980 of stewarding these resources

00:26:12.300 as a subnational government

00:26:14.060 and if there is going to be

00:26:17.160 any kind of difficulty

00:26:19.440 getting our product to market

00:26:20.520 or the value of it

00:26:21.980 declining over time,

00:26:23.500 I think we have to make

00:26:24.400 the decisions now

00:26:25.780 so that by 2050

00:26:26.920 we have enough revenue

00:26:28.540 being generated

00:26:29.500 from that investment fund

00:26:31.480 to replace our reliance

00:26:32.800 on resource revenues.

00:26:33.900 If resource revenues

00:26:34.720 are still valuable in 2050

00:26:36.400 and I can tell you

00:26:37.620 our aspiration

00:26:38.540 is that we want to be

00:26:39.760 the best barrel in the market

00:26:41.240 so that we are the,

00:26:42.560 if there is a last barrel

00:26:43.500 in the market,

00:26:44.160 we want it to be

00:26:44.680 an Alberta barrel.

00:26:45.860 But it still may be

00:26:47.000 that we have a longer

00:26:48.320 time horizon than that.

00:26:49.640 But I think we have to plan.

00:26:51.520 What do you do with the fund

00:26:52.600 at that point?

00:26:53.440 Does it become

00:26:54.040 an investment vehicle?

00:26:56.360 Does it, you know,

00:26:57.160 do you draw down on it

00:26:58.360 to pay for health care

00:26:59.860 and education?

00:27:01.660 You know,

00:27:01.920 does it become like the,

00:27:03.920 I know you have talked

00:27:05.760 about an Alberta pension plan,

00:27:07.100 but in Quebec

00:27:07.640 where they do have

00:27:08.420 a provincial pension plan,

00:27:09.580 they use the case

00:27:10.140 to depot

00:27:10.660 as an economic innovator

00:27:13.220 and driver.

00:27:14.760 So what would the fund

00:27:16.340 be used for?

00:27:17.700 Well, I hope

00:27:18.780 that's a very robust discussion

00:27:20.240 in 2050

00:27:21.220 because I think my job

00:27:22.740 is to get it started

00:27:23.600 and to get the expectation there

00:27:25.580 that we can achieve this.

00:27:26.740 And then it will be up

00:27:27.840 to future governments

00:27:28.780 to decide at what point

00:27:30.480 do they convert it

00:27:31.740 from a vehicle

00:27:32.440 that's growing

00:27:33.140 to a vehicle

00:27:34.020 that's going to be

00:27:34.620 generating income.

00:27:35.580 I think that they'll probably

00:27:36.740 be at some point

00:27:37.600 along the way,

00:27:38.700 depending on what

00:27:39.300 our resource revenues are,

00:27:40.500 some government

00:27:41.240 will make a decision

00:27:41.980 that a certain portion

00:27:43.000 goes to offset

00:27:44.480 that revenue loss.

00:27:46.280 But I want to stay

00:27:47.780 focused on a target.

00:27:49.300 Let's figure out

00:27:50.000 where we can be by 2050

00:27:51.200 because that aligns

00:27:52.040 with our carbon neutrality

00:27:52.980 target of 2050 as well.

00:27:54.500 and just have a little bit

00:27:56.740 of additional discipline

00:27:57.840 so that we can make sure

00:28:00.440 that we don't blow

00:28:01.380 this next boom.

00:28:02.160 I think we're in the middle

00:28:02.900 of another oil and gas boom.

00:28:05.000 We have new pipelines

00:28:06.360 coming on stream.

00:28:07.440 Can you really be

00:28:08.600 an oil and gas boom?

00:28:10.160 Hold on.

00:28:10.800 You're in the middle

00:28:11.460 of an oil and gas boom?

00:28:12.460 I didn't think you could

00:28:13.420 do that with

00:28:14.260 Gibault and Trudeau in Ottawa.

00:28:16.420 Oh, well,

00:28:17.000 this is the nice part

00:28:17.840 about some of the decisions

00:28:19.080 that have been made historically

00:28:20.940 that our energy industry

00:28:22.560 has really shifted

00:28:23.860 to oil sands development,

00:28:26.000 which is heavier oil.

00:28:27.400 The Trans Mountain pipeline

00:28:28.840 is really weeks

00:28:31.020 or months away

00:28:31.680 from being open.

00:28:32.720 The coastal gas link pipeline

00:28:34.040 is completed

00:28:34.620 and LNG projects

00:28:36.160 are being proposed.

00:28:37.780 And so I think

00:28:38.540 that there is an opportunity

00:28:39.620 for us to continue

00:28:40.580 increasing production,

00:28:41.540 but we want to be

00:28:42.340 a responsible producer.

00:28:43.720 We also want to reduce

00:28:44.740 the amount of

00:28:45.840 greenhouse gas emissions.

00:28:47.020 So I think we have,

00:28:48.880 at least in the near term horizon,

00:28:52.000 an amazing opportunity

00:28:53.380 to be able to benefit the world,

00:28:56.020 have energy security,

00:28:57.300 energy affordability,

00:28:58.440 as well as reduce emissions

00:28:59.840 and be able to be

00:29:01.320 a really responsible player globally.

00:29:02.940 So yeah,

00:29:03.180 I think we've got some,

00:29:04.580 in the near term,

00:29:05.440 some really positive things

00:29:07.480 happening on the horizon.

00:29:08.820 Okay.

00:29:09.180 Am I wrong to describe,

00:29:10.600 you were in Ontario

00:29:11.460 a little while ago,

00:29:12.220 you had to stop in Ottawa,

00:29:13.200 stop in Toronto.

00:29:14.240 Am I wrong to describe

00:29:15.440 what you set up in Ottawa

00:29:17.340 as Alberta's embassy?

00:29:20.000 I made a joke

00:29:20.960 that that's what Quebec

00:29:22.480 calls their office.

00:29:24.520 I was corrected.

00:29:25.200 They said they don't call it

00:29:25.960 an embassy,

00:29:26.440 but it was kind of

00:29:27.080 a funny joke.

00:29:28.300 No, it's just an office

00:29:29.460 and it is a way for us.

00:29:31.140 We have an office

00:29:31.940 in the,

00:29:32.580 co-located

00:29:33.680 in the Washington embassy

00:29:35.640 as well

00:29:36.200 for Alberta interests.

00:29:37.480 We share a floor

00:29:38.120 actually with Ontario.

00:29:39.600 We've got 16 offices

00:29:40.860 internationally

00:29:41.820 and it just felt like

00:29:43.460 it was time

00:29:43.980 for us to have an office

00:29:44.900 in Ottawa.

00:29:45.440 I mean,

00:29:45.660 I look at Quebec.

00:29:46.640 Quebec has 0.62

00:29:47.660 the lion's share

00:29:48.780 of its people

00:29:49.460 are in the Federal

00:29:50.060 Civil Service.

00:29:50.900 They're right across

00:29:51.620 the river

00:29:52.120 in Hull

00:29:52.980 and they feel a need

00:29:54.160 to have an office

00:29:54.840 in Ottawa.

00:29:55.680 So if that's the case,

00:29:56.620 then I think it's important

00:29:57.620 for Alberta to be there

00:29:58.720 so my ministers

00:29:59.360 can come out,

00:30:00.200 they can have meetings,

00:30:01.280 they can meet with people

00:30:02.360 who share common interests,

00:30:05.580 they can meet with ministers

00:30:06.540 and that was the purpose

00:30:07.820 for it

00:30:08.180 is that I feel increasingly

00:30:09.780 with the federal government

00:30:10.960 interfering in our jurisdiction,

00:30:13.020 coming up with policies,

00:30:14.200 surprising them with us.

00:30:15.160 We want to make sure

00:30:15.720 we have someone on the ground

00:30:16.600 so that we know exactly

00:30:17.600 what the status is

00:30:18.860 of some of those initiatives.

00:30:20.700 You were in Toronto

00:30:22.520 trying to drum up business,

00:30:23.700 trying to get people

00:30:24.280 to invest in Alberta.

00:30:25.640 I could easily make the pitch

00:30:28.340 for moving,

00:30:30.240 but that's just to live in

00:30:31.260 the area that you represent

00:30:32.540 of High River

00:30:33.100 because several years ago

00:30:35.340 I spent a lot of time there.

00:30:36.260 It's stunningly beautiful

00:30:37.620 as is the whole province,

00:30:39.140 but what's your sales pitch

00:30:40.740 for Alberta right now,

00:30:43.120 especially to Central Canadians

00:30:44.620 who mostly hear bad things,

00:30:47.380 not mostly bad things,

00:30:48.480 but you know what I'm talking about.

00:30:49.760 There is a Central Canadian

00:30:52.340 Laurentian elite view

00:30:54.380 of backwater Alberta.

00:30:56.160 So what do you say

00:30:57.400 when you come to Toronto?

00:30:59.760 Well, I have to tell you,

00:31:01.200 this is the most exciting place

00:31:03.520 to be in Canada,

00:31:05.200 maybe in North America,

00:31:06.320 that we have created

00:31:08.000 an environment here

00:31:09.020 where anyone who wants

00:31:10.580 to invest can do so

00:31:11.820 and get a greater return

00:31:13.040 on their money

00:31:13.660 than virtually,

00:31:14.500 than anywhere else in Canada

00:31:15.560 and most of the United States.

00:31:17.560 Our 8% corporate income tax rate

00:31:19.320 is 30% below

00:31:20.600 what exists in the combined

00:31:22.740 provincial federal rate

00:31:24.060 in the rest of the country,

00:31:25.420 as well as better

00:31:26.980 than 44 U.S. states.

00:31:28.800 We've got no sales tax,

00:31:30.060 we've got no capital tax,

00:31:31.660 we've got a well-educated workforce,

00:31:34.060 some amazing premier universities

00:31:36.280 and polytechnics

00:31:37.840 and technical colleges,

00:31:39.520 and we have an affordability proposal

00:31:42.900 or proposition

00:31:43.600 that's second to none.

00:31:44.700 You can live not just

00:31:45.660 in Calgary or Edmonton,

00:31:46.720 but also Red Deer,

00:31:48.120 Lethbridge, Medicine Hat,

00:31:49.180 Grand Prairie, Fort McMurray,

00:31:50.420 and within an hour drive

00:31:52.540 of any of those jurisdictions.

00:31:53.720 So you can get

00:31:54.560 an affordable home

00:31:55.780 if you want to own a home

00:31:57.100 and have a backyard

00:31:57.960 that's attainable here.

00:32:00.620 And we have a growing tech industry,

00:32:04.140 we have agri-food,

00:32:05.060 we've got oil and gas,

00:32:06.000 we're going to be at the forefront

00:32:07.180 of green technology,

00:32:08.340 we've got a film industry

00:32:09.560 that is vibrant and robust.

00:32:11.920 Is that housing part though?

00:32:13.440 Not for everyone.

00:32:13.700 Has that housing part

00:32:15.140 really taken off

00:32:16.180 with young people?

00:32:17.860 Are you seeing an influx

00:32:19.040 of people in their 20s

00:32:21.040 and early 30s saying,

00:32:22.020 you know what,

00:32:22.500 I'm leaving Ontario

00:32:24.140 and I'm going to Alberta

00:32:25.180 because I can buy a house there?

00:32:26.600 Is that happening?

00:32:27.960 That is happening.

00:32:29.260 In fact,

00:32:29.580 I just was even reading

00:32:30.500 some stories

00:32:31.180 about some commuters

00:32:32.860 from who are working

00:32:34.440 in Vancouver

00:32:35.140 but living in Edmonton

00:32:37.180 or Calgary

00:32:37.840 because it's so much cheaper.

00:32:39.740 There was one family,

00:32:41.080 he's a marketing professor.

00:32:42.520 He can have a home

00:32:43.740 for $600,000 in Edmonton

00:32:45.840 and then just hop on a plane

00:32:47.020 and be in Vancouver

00:32:48.180 for four days a week

00:32:49.180 and then come home

00:32:49.940 and be able to enjoy

00:32:51.480 our beautiful outdoors

00:32:52.740 and landscapes

00:32:53.440 and cheaper property values

00:32:54.860 and the lower cost

00:32:55.560 of living here.

00:32:56.120 So I would say yes

00:32:57.400 and others are just relocating here

00:32:59.340 because I think a lot of,

00:33:00.720 especially in the post-COVID era,

00:33:02.640 there's a lot more tolerance,

00:33:04.380 I think,

00:33:04.800 for telecommuting

00:33:05.940 and being available

00:33:07.080 on these kinds of forums

00:33:08.560 and so what I've heard

00:33:10.480 from a number of individuals

00:33:12.600 is that as long as you're within

00:33:14.180 an hour drive

00:33:15.180 of an international airport,

00:33:16.620 you can pretty well work

00:33:17.340 anywhere in the world

00:33:18.120 if you need to be able

00:33:18.980 to get somewhere

00:33:19.580 and we've got two

00:33:20.840 international airports

00:33:21.800 and we've got an affordable way

00:33:25.500 of living

00:33:26.000 and affordable housing

00:33:27.260 in a number

00:33:29.300 of different municipalities

00:33:30.280 within that distance.

00:33:31.820 And of course,

00:33:32.760 our beautiful mountain parks

00:33:33.700 at BAM, Jasper, Waterton.

00:33:36.320 There's so much to do

00:33:37.580 from an outdoors point of view.

00:33:38.880 It's not just all work.

00:33:39.820 There's a lot of play as well.

00:33:41.020 So I feel like

00:33:42.100 that is the reason why

00:33:43.580 not only businesses

00:33:44.440 would want to invest here

00:33:45.700 but also they would want

00:33:47.100 to move their employees here.

00:33:48.560 They would want to hire here 1.00

00:33:49.660 because I think that we can

00:33:50.860 we can make an argument

00:33:52.220 about the prosperity

00:33:54.060 that both the company

00:33:54.960 and the individual

00:33:55.500 is going to have

00:33:56.060 by being in Alberta.

00:33:57.820 As someone that deals

00:33:58.700 with Pearson Airport a lot,

00:33:59.920 I truly appreciate Calgary

00:34:01.240 because it works.

00:34:02.360 Don't tell Edmonton

00:34:03.100 I was nice to Calgary

00:34:04.000 and not nice to Edmonton

00:34:04.920 but Calgary Airport works.

00:34:07.240 Premier, thanks for your time today.

00:34:08.780 If I don't see you soon

00:34:10.060 in Alberta,

00:34:10.620 perhaps we'll see you here

00:34:11.540 back in Ontario.

00:34:13.240 You bet.

00:34:13.580 Thanks, Brian.

00:34:14.520 I hope you enjoyed

00:34:15.480 this week's episode

00:34:16.400 and I hope that you

00:34:17.060 take some time to share it

00:34:18.220 on social media,

00:34:19.040 send it to your friends,

00:34:19.900 so on and so forth.

00:34:20.860 Make sure that you

00:34:21.500 hit the subscribe button.

00:34:23.120 Full Comment

00:34:23.720 is a post-media podcast.

00:34:25.820 My name's Brian Little,

00:34:26.720 your host.

00:34:27.220 This episode was produced

00:34:28.300 by Andre Pru

00:34:29.140 with theme music

00:34:30.220 by Bryce Hall.

00:34:31.100 Kevin Libin

00:34:31.620 is the executive producer.

00:34:33.420 As I mentioned,

00:34:33.980 you can subscribe

00:34:34.620 to Full Comment

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00:34:42.540 Help us out

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00:34:47.680 Thanks for listening,

00:34:48.420 thanks for watching.

00:34:49.140 Until next time,

00:34:50.280 I'm Brian Lilly.

00:34:51.480 Ah,

00:34:53.320 Michael,

00:34:53.400 thank you.

00:34:53.760 Bye for now.

00:34:54.540 Bye for now.

00:34:55.600 Bye for now.

00:34:57.940 Bye for now.

00:34:59.220 Bye.

00:35:03.800 Bye for now.

Full Comment - February 26, 2024

Danielle Smith challenges Trudeau to call an election

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