Full Comment - February 26, 2024


Danielle Smith challenges Trudeau to call an election


Episode Stats

Length

35 minutes

Words per Minute

184.12653

Word Count

6,461

Sentence Count

354

Misogynist Sentences

11

Hate Speech Sentences

5


Summary

This week on the Full Comment Podcast, we speak with Alberta Premier Danielle Smith about her gender policy, her relationship with Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, and her ongoing fight with Ottawa over taxes and the Heritage Fund. We also hear from the Prime Minister's office in Calgary.


Transcript

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00:01:58.720 Alberta is one of the most stunningly beautiful parts of this country.
00:02:10.160 But often when it's in the news, especially in eastern Canada, it gets a certain portrayal that isn't exactly favorable.
00:02:17.300 Backwater hick, Alberta. Uncultured, Alberta.
00:02:20.880 And yet, if you've actually visited the place, you know none of those things are true.
00:02:24.680 It's a wonderfully vibrant economy.
00:02:27.420 It's a wonderfully vibrant culture in big cities like Calgary and Edmonton or smaller centers, be it High River, Red Deer, what have you.
00:02:35.120 I wanted to take some time and speak with Alberta Premier Danielle Smith this week on the Full Comment Podcast.
00:02:41.120 Hello, my name is Brian Lilly, host of the Full Comment Podcast.
00:02:44.000 And we're going to talk about the issues surrounding her gender policy, her ongoing fights with Ottawa, which include the gender policy,
00:02:52.480 and also what Alberta is about and what it's offering, why it felt it had to open an embassy in Ottawa.
00:02:58.900 It will give you an insight into the province that you probably won't get elsewhere unless you're already in Alberta,
00:03:04.680 because, as I said, far too often the province is portrayed in ways that don't match up with reality.
00:03:10.560 We were able to join Alberta Premier Danielle Smith from her office in Calgary.
00:03:15.700 Premier Smith, thanks for the time today.
00:03:17.160 My pleasure. Nice to talk to you, Brian.
00:03:19.460 I thought I was going to be opening up with your new statement that came out about taxation, about the Heritage Fund.
00:03:28.220 And I thought, well, the issue of gender and your gender policy is a bit in the rearview mirror now.
00:03:33.320 But then the prime minister brought it all back up.
00:03:35.480 He was in Edmonton just a few days ago and really going after you, both while he was there at a news conference and online since.
00:03:44.520 He's taken a very different and aggressive tone compared to you.
00:03:51.020 What's your response to him?
00:03:52.220 Do you think that he actually understands your policy, which seems to have widespread support?
00:03:58.320 Well, I think the reason our policy has widespread support is because it's so reasonable.
00:04:03.240 I mean, I started with having met with many transgender individuals over the years,
00:04:07.780 knowing that we have a bit of gap in our medical support for those who have transitioned,
00:04:13.100 especially when it comes to a surgical aftercare, as well as the long-term support for hormone therapy
00:04:19.600 and the impacts that has on a person for their lifetime.
00:04:23.440 So we started by saying those are the gaps we need to fill.
00:04:26.060 And then it begins the conversation about at what point should someone make the decision to make life-changing
00:04:32.520 and unalterable decisions to their body that will affect their ability to have kids.
00:04:39.540 And it just seems evident that over 18, these are adult decisions.
00:04:45.000 And so over 18 is the age that we felt was appropriate to be making surgical decisions.
00:04:49.960 But when you start getting onto puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones,
00:04:54.560 that also starts you down a path that could lead to infertility.
00:04:57.600 So we wanted to make sure that the decisions were made at an age that a child is able to fully comprehend
00:05:02.980 the consequences of what they're choosing.
00:05:04.720 So we put a ban in place on age 15 and under, being on those types of treatments.
00:05:09.660 We want to make sure that families have support with mental health support and good counseling
00:05:14.780 so that as kids are figuring this out, the whole family is involved in it
00:05:18.240 because it really is an entire family affair.
00:05:21.640 So we wanted to ensure that the schools were working alongside parents
00:05:25.960 to make sure those kids receive support as opposed to keeping secrets.
00:05:29.160 And so if it is the case that a child is transitioned at school
00:05:32.940 and everyone knows and the teacher is calling them by a different name and different pronouns
00:05:37.300 and it's part of the school record, the families have to be involved in that.
00:05:41.340 And then the final piece, of course, was on transgender athletes,
00:05:45.100 who I think we've heard from many female-born athletes,
00:05:48.180 how unfair they feel that it is to compete against somebody who was male-born.
00:05:52.240 And so we want to ensure everyone has an option to participate in sports.
00:05:55.380 So more co-ed and all-gender categories, but also making sure that those sports,
00:06:00.840 where especially there's an advantage to those who are male-born,
00:06:04.160 that we have a biological female-only category.
00:06:06.640 So I think we got the right balance.
00:06:08.620 And I think that there's a sort of a smear that the prime minister is trying to bring forward
00:06:14.660 against all parents who want to be involved in these really crucial decisions for their kids.
00:06:20.080 And I think the reason why people are on our side on it is they realize that it's very reasonable and balanced.
00:06:25.860 Well, I think what was lost in much of the coverage of your announcement several weeks ago now
00:06:31.940 was that you did start with the decision of saying,
00:06:36.740 OK, look, there are gaps in care for people who are going through a transition.
00:06:43.540 We will look after that.
00:06:45.080 We will provide supports.
00:06:46.200 That was pretty much ignored.
00:06:48.580 And it was portrayed as you attacking the trans community.
00:06:54.000 And nothing could be further from the truth.
00:06:55.540 Right now, the transgender surgeries that we pay for are being performed in Quebec.
00:07:01.060 And I can tell you that I just received a briefing, though,
00:07:05.100 that says the thalloplasty actually has a 100% complication rate.
00:07:09.440 So if you're going to have complications with that kind of surgery,
00:07:12.460 you darn well better have people trained up and on-site and on-hand to be able to deal with that.
00:07:16.620 So that's been very much on my mind, is that when people make these kinds of decisions
00:07:21.140 that are going to result in a greater need for very specialized care,
00:07:26.240 then we've got to make sure that we're bridging that gap.
00:07:28.780 And that is the starting point for us.
00:07:30.840 But I think when we were talking about what occurs when someone goes through a transition,
00:07:36.880 we have to be very clear about it.
00:07:38.160 Because if you do end up removing your reproductive organs, you're not able to have kids.
00:07:42.940 And if you start on to puberty blockers and don't go through puberty,
00:07:46.400 you're not able to have kids.
00:07:48.080 And so I think that we have to make a decision about at what age should a child make that decision.
00:07:53.500 And I think most studies and most assessment points to age 16 and 17 being the age that kids are able to understand
00:08:01.920 the long-term consequences associated with that kind of decision.
00:08:05.920 And so that's why we put that out there as the starting point.
00:08:09.880 So we're going to continue to get feedback as we implement.
00:08:13.240 But the overwhelming feedback that we're getting is that we struck the right balance.
00:08:17.040 And polling would seem to indicate that.
00:08:20.720 But the prime minister is portraying this as an attack that will lead to suicides,
00:08:29.000 an attack on the trans community, on the LGBTQ plus community,
00:08:33.520 that it is far-right politicians, that it's social conservatives.
00:08:37.000 Anybody calling you a social conservative has never spent five minutes talking to you
00:08:43.140 because that is definitely not where you come from within politics unless things have changed.
00:08:48.520 But as long as I've known you, that has not been something that I would describe to you.
00:08:53.140 So how do you respond to the very personal and politicized attacks that you're facing,
00:09:01.280 be it from the prime minister or from an awful lot in the media who don't seem to look at the issue,
00:09:07.260 don't seem to look at the balance in your position, the polling, where people are at?
00:09:16.000 They just, you know, you've got the majority of people on your side,
00:09:19.600 and yet you're the one constantly called controversial.
00:09:23.160 Well, I would say that I hope that there's some good reporting done
00:09:26.480 on the changing clinical practice around the world
00:09:29.500 because there have been other jurisdictions that took a look at this
00:09:33.560 and realized that the process of diagnosing gender dysphoria needs more rigor.
00:09:39.440 And so there are also, in places like the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, Finland, Norway, Sweden,
00:09:45.620 that they're also questioning the clinical practice and developing new criteria and guidelines.
00:09:52.020 And so we in politics have to be alive to the fact
00:09:55.340 that there are alternative views in the medical industry and among medical professionals.
00:10:01.860 And I know that there's this reflexive approach that seems to be taken in Canada
00:10:06.240 where once a narrative sets in, everybody assumes that there's no dissenting or alternative ways
00:10:12.160 at looking at complicated issues.
00:10:14.160 I have always taken a different view.
00:10:15.900 Maybe it's because of the history that I've had.
00:10:17.800 I think it's very important for us to not be closed-minded
00:10:21.320 and to be aware that there are changing clinical practices
00:10:24.660 and we have to be prepared to respond to that.
00:10:26.720 So I don't accept what the Prime Minister is saying.
00:10:29.820 I know that he's trying to get people angry and worked up.
00:10:32.580 I have always looked at this through the perspective of the child.
00:10:35.360 I don't think that it does children any good to feel like somehow they're going to be rejected.
00:10:39.900 And the approach that has been taken so far
00:10:41.900 where there's this notion that teachers should be keeping secrets from families,
00:10:46.900 I think that's outrageous.
00:10:48.900 We have to make sure that that child is supported.
00:10:51.880 And loving parents and loving families want to know what's going on with their kids.
00:10:56.320 That has got to be the starting point that we have.
00:10:58.380 We have to trust that we're going to make sure that parents and kids stay together
00:11:04.580 because that's the fact of the matter
00:11:05.860 is that when somebody makes this kind of life-altering decision,
00:11:08.700 a teacher is sort of a temporary influence in their life.
00:11:12.660 A family is a permanent influence in a person's life.
00:11:15.340 And I've been quite alarmed to see some of the discussion
00:11:18.060 that thinks that parents and families should be kept out of the mix.
00:11:20.760 We need to know that as kids are walking these journeys,
00:11:23.360 that they have their loving family members with them every step of the way.
00:11:26.900 Well, the unfortunate part in my view,
00:11:29.500 and I'd like to hear your thoughts on this,
00:11:32.180 is that there is a...
00:11:33.880 they begin at the starting point
00:11:37.760 that families are inherently dangerous to their children.
00:11:40.880 And we all know that some parents are not going to be accepting,
00:11:44.560 that some parents will be abusive.
00:11:46.760 But that is the exception, not the rule.
00:11:49.480 And the prime minister and critics of,
00:11:51.920 many critics of your position and your policy,
00:11:55.100 start with the idea that
00:11:56.880 teachers need to protect children from families at all times.
00:12:01.180 To me, that is fundamentally wrong and backwards.
00:12:05.860 And I tend to agree with you.
00:12:08.040 We know that there are lots of reasons
00:12:10.960 why kids could potentially be at risk in a home environment.
00:12:14.660 It's part of the reason why we have Child Protective Services.
00:12:18.380 It's a very sad reality that there are some people who are not good parents
00:12:21.920 and some kids who are at risk for a whole variety of reasons.
00:12:25.420 But we can't presume that because some kids
00:12:29.960 have come into the Child Protective Services
00:12:33.820 that all families are bad.
00:12:35.500 I think we have to start from the starting point
00:12:37.180 that families support their kids, parents love their children.
00:12:40.560 And if we do have a very small number of cases
00:12:43.360 where a child has to be removed to be put into Child Protective Services,
00:12:48.100 then we'll be prepared to do that.
00:12:49.700 There's no justification for any child being abused or feeling at risk.
00:12:55.320 And so we want to make sure that those kids are feeling supported.
00:12:58.780 But by having your starting point be that families are going to reject,
00:13:04.740 families are not going to be supportive,
00:13:06.800 that's outrageous.
00:13:08.060 That is not the case in the vast, vast majority of cases.
00:13:11.380 And I don't think kids should be given any kind of indication
00:13:13.880 that they're going to be rejected by their families.
00:13:17.000 Parents love their kids.
00:13:17.820 And parents want to know what's going on with their kids.
00:13:19.740 That's the bottom line.
00:13:20.840 Okay, last point on this issue.
00:13:22.400 We had Julia Malata on a little while ago,
00:13:25.000 a trans woman who said,
00:13:27.860 look, I'm not very good at sports,
00:13:28.980 but here's my thoughts on the sports issue.
00:13:31.380 Fully agrees with you that there are times
00:13:33.320 where biological males have an advantage,
00:13:36.960 but in other sports do not.
00:13:39.040 And so she was actually quite complimentary
00:13:41.460 of your position on sport,
00:13:43.900 but said, you know,
00:13:44.620 there are some sports where you could just do it
00:13:47.220 by weight and height class and things like that.
00:13:49.940 You're pretty open, aren't you?
00:13:51.280 You're not saying a complete ban
00:13:53.520 on trans women in female sports.
00:13:56.660 You're saying, let's figure it out.
00:13:58.840 Let's figure out where we need to have
00:14:01.280 a biological female-only category
00:14:03.600 and make sure that women and girls
00:14:06.160 are able to participate in that category.
00:14:08.560 I mean, one of the things to remember,
00:14:09.760 maybe people don't know exactly
00:14:12.860 how vitally important participation in sports are
00:14:15.440 to a person's long-term aspirations in life.
00:14:19.120 But 97% of women who end up in leadership positions
00:14:23.700 played some kind of collegiate sport
00:14:26.220 or high school sports on a sports team.
00:14:28.780 So we don't want to create an environment
00:14:30.500 where girls aren't challenging themselves
00:14:32.940 because they're fearful that they can't compete,
00:14:35.500 they're fearful that they might get hurt,
00:14:37.060 or they're fearful that they're not going to be competitive
00:14:38.820 because of an unfair advantage.
00:14:40.380 We want to ensure that this is the reason
00:14:42.640 why we had a female sporting category to begin with.
00:14:46.300 It's why we wanted to have more young women
00:14:48.280 and girls participating in sports.
00:14:50.440 And so we want to make sure that that becomes an option.
00:14:52.700 And it's quite true.
00:14:53.900 There are certain sports where it's immaterial.
00:14:57.160 I remember watching a show jumping competition,
00:14:59.920 and in the end, it was sort of a middle-aged male rider
00:15:02.680 up against a young female rider,
00:15:04.460 and she ended up winning.
00:15:05.780 So there are some sports where you can have
00:15:08.400 across all gender, it can be co-ed,
00:15:11.660 and we want to make sure that we're embracing
00:15:13.100 all of those options.
00:15:14.980 Let's stay with the prime minister
00:15:16.940 and the relationship that he has with both you
00:15:19.180 and with your province,
00:15:21.180 because there are times when you've surprised people,
00:15:25.020 not necessarily me,
00:15:26.040 but you've surprised people by working closely with them,
00:15:28.680 including on the health accord.
00:15:30.840 You obviously needed to sign a health deal,
00:15:33.940 and you came to an agreement
00:15:35.140 that both sides could work with.
00:15:36.420 Maybe not everyone's not happy about all points,
00:15:39.180 but you found agreement.
00:15:40.600 And you've done that several times,
00:15:42.580 but still, Alberta seems to be
00:15:46.200 a prime target for this prime minister
00:15:51.480 in this government.
00:15:52.780 Do you feel that Alberta is under attack
00:15:56.260 from Ottawa far too often
00:15:57.780 by Justin Trudeau and his administration?
00:16:01.320 Well, you know, I wanted to give the prime minister
00:16:03.020 the benefit of the doubt that he made a decision
00:16:06.320 to put Stephen Guibault in the environment ministry,
00:16:09.520 and that he wanted to give him the latitude
00:16:11.560 to bring policy forward.
00:16:13.180 But a leader also has to know
00:16:15.600 that when their minister is going off
00:16:19.020 in a direction that is harmful to the country,
00:16:21.480 harmful to national unity,
00:16:23.180 when they're proposing policies
00:16:24.640 that are unachievable and impractical,
00:16:26.960 when they're creating that kind of division,
00:16:28.800 it's the job of a leader to step in,
00:16:30.000 whoa, and say, whoa, hold on a minute.
00:16:31.860 There might be something that I need
00:16:33.220 to do some course correction on here.
00:16:34.620 So I've been giving the prime minister
00:16:35.700 to the benefit of the doubt
00:16:36.700 that he understands that a net zero power grid
00:16:39.720 in Alberta is not achievable,
00:16:41.180 that he understands that a 2030 emissions target
00:16:44.620 that's too aggressive is actually a production cap,
00:16:46.820 that he has no business doing,
00:16:49.520 trying to put forward a policy
00:16:51.140 to have zero emissions vehicles sold 100% by 2035,
00:16:56.360 that when his minister said
00:16:58.640 that we're not building roads anymore
00:17:00.420 after everybody's going through the effort
00:17:02.320 of trying to invest in zero emissions vehicles,
00:17:04.580 like at what point does the prime minister step in
00:17:07.880 and say that his minister of environment
00:17:10.300 has gone completely off the rails?
00:17:11.640 And so that's what I've been encouraging him to do,
00:17:14.180 to come to the table,
00:17:15.380 to work collaboratively with those of us
00:17:16.920 who want to find a solution.
00:17:18.780 I've put forward an emissions reduction
00:17:20.520 and energy development plan
00:17:21.700 that would get us to carbon neutrality by 2050.
00:17:23.920 That's our target.
00:17:25.740 That's the target of our major trading partners.
00:17:28.620 That's the target we should be working forward together.
00:17:30.940 But we keep having an environment minister
00:17:32.760 that is just pulling things out of thin air
00:17:35.520 that can't be implemented.
00:17:37.280 And I think he has to be accountable for that.
00:17:39.580 He's not just a minister
00:17:40.540 who is picking fights with Alberta.
00:17:44.980 It's every province.
00:17:46.160 I mean, on Bill C-69,
00:17:47.680 it was every single province
00:17:49.460 joined in the court challenge to Bill C-69
00:17:53.920 because this is a minister
00:17:55.920 that definitely goes too far on C-69,
00:17:59.820 on other issues.
00:18:01.460 He seems to be picking fights
00:18:03.080 at a time when the prime minister
00:18:04.640 doesn't need more headaches.
00:18:06.120 Look at the polling numbers.
00:18:07.540 He needs friends.
00:18:08.480 He needs wins.
00:18:09.640 And you don't get that by fighting with everyone.
00:18:12.040 No, you don't.
00:18:12.900 And look, that's where we're heading,
00:18:14.560 where we're heading to an election
00:18:15.760 and he's using Alberta as a punching bag
00:18:17.560 to try to win votes in Eastern Canada.
00:18:19.340 It's the same old story.
00:18:20.460 It happens over and over again.
00:18:21.920 Then let's just do it.
00:18:22.780 Let's just have an election
00:18:23.780 so that this can be resolved one way or another.
00:18:26.440 And if he loses the election,
00:18:28.840 then we move into a different path.
00:18:30.720 And if we win,
00:18:32.540 then perhaps we'll have a more mature
00:18:34.100 professional relationship again.
00:18:35.980 But fighting this kind of campaign battle
00:18:38.560 when we're trying to get things done
00:18:40.760 and trying to behave
00:18:43.020 in a collaborative and cooperative way
00:18:44.600 is not helpful.
00:18:45.800 It was the last election
00:18:47.080 and that was prior to you taking office.
00:18:49.380 But in the last election,
00:18:50.580 he campaigned in B.C.'s lower mainland
00:18:52.840 and in the suburbs of Toronto
00:18:54.520 against Alberta.
00:18:56.140 He went to those places
00:18:57.460 and warned suburban mothers
00:18:58.780 worried about the health of their children.
00:19:00.780 Look at what's happening in Alberta.
00:19:03.040 A COVID spike.
00:19:04.300 Well, if you vote for the conservatives,
00:19:06.120 the federal conservatives,
00:19:07.280 your children are at risk.
00:19:09.460 That is unhelpful to national unity.
00:19:12.980 It is.
00:19:13.800 And it's unacceptable.
00:19:15.240 I mean, the court has come down
00:19:17.520 every time they lose,
00:19:19.320 saying that they have an anticipation,
00:19:21.380 an expectation of cooperative federalism.
00:19:23.660 That means that the federal government
00:19:25.680 cannot just announce unilateral policy
00:19:28.220 in our areas of jurisdiction.
00:19:29.720 And yet they do it time and time and time again.
00:19:32.940 The court calls them out
00:19:34.060 and then it's like they slough it off.
00:19:36.700 They act like the court didn't render a decision.
00:19:38.280 And so this is not the way
00:19:40.460 a constructive confederation works.
00:19:43.060 I get that we have different political views
00:19:45.520 and we've got different ideas
00:19:47.340 about how we want to reach our targets.
00:19:49.920 But I can tell you,
00:19:51.340 when I get to the table with the first ministers,
00:19:53.320 we come from all different perspectives, too.
00:19:55.900 NDP, liberal, conservative.
00:19:58.340 And yet we've managed to find areas of common ground.
00:20:00.620 That's how you're supposed to deal
00:20:01.760 in an environment of cooperative federalism.
00:20:04.480 And I'm just not seeing that the federal government
00:20:06.680 is coming to the table in good faith that way.
00:20:08.540 Well, when the prime minister was in Edmonton recently,
00:20:11.160 it was for a housing announcement.
00:20:12.420 Now, housing is primarily a responsibility
00:20:15.120 of municipalities and then provincial governments.
00:20:17.680 Federal government has the least amount of responsibility.
00:20:19.920 I know he's wearing the issue right now.
00:20:22.000 And that's for political reasons,
00:20:23.960 some of them of his own making.
00:20:26.300 But not to get too wonky,
00:20:28.000 but Quebec said to the federal government,
00:20:31.060 no, you're not going to sign a deal
00:20:32.240 with every municipality.
00:20:33.240 You'll sign a deal with us and we will deal with it.
00:20:36.000 Does it bother you that he's going
00:20:38.040 across the country signing deals
00:20:40.060 directly with municipalities?
00:20:41.580 Should this have gone through the provinces?
00:20:44.220 Because, I mean, if he had,
00:20:45.400 there's only 10 provinces.
00:20:46.860 You can get the changes implemented far quicker
00:20:49.380 than having hundreds.
00:20:52.620 I mean, we've got 400 municipalities in Ontario alone.
00:20:55.360 So you've got a few thousand across the country.
00:20:58.800 Wouldn't it have been wiser to just go to you?
00:21:01.280 I know he doesn't get the photo ops,
00:21:03.100 but wouldn't that have been a better way to do it?
00:21:05.600 Or does this not really matter to you?
00:21:08.040 Well, you know, the thing is,
00:21:09.020 you can do joint press conferences.
00:21:11.000 I've watched with great interest
00:21:12.180 over the last couple of weeks.
00:21:13.280 He's done a joint press conference with Doug Ford,
00:21:15.520 did a joint press conference with Wavcanu,
00:21:17.780 did a joint press conference with David Eby.
00:21:20.000 And then he didn't even really bother
00:21:22.220 to try to set up even so much as a courtesy call with me
00:21:25.320 when he was in our province.
00:21:26.520 So you can see that he is treating Alberta differently
00:21:29.000 and there's no reason for it.
00:21:30.640 We have approached the federal housing minister
00:21:33.240 and said we'd like to work together
00:21:34.800 on a similar type of approach to Quebec
00:21:36.700 where we identify a certain amount of money
00:21:38.540 that we would put up that they would then match.
00:21:40.660 Because I, well, I'm very pleased
00:21:43.040 for both Calgary and Edmonton
00:21:44.340 and some of the other smaller centres
00:21:45.900 that have been able to get these accelerator funds.
00:21:48.940 We've got 350 municipalities in this province as well.
00:21:53.180 And if you've got a federal government
00:21:54.640 that's kind of picking the projects
00:21:56.600 based on who has the best lobbyists,
00:21:58.900 then you're going to be making mistakes
00:22:00.420 and you're going to be missing out
00:22:01.600 on some of the priority areas.
00:22:02.840 That's what we can do as a province
00:22:04.220 is we can, we have the eyesight
00:22:06.640 on which municipalities are really the ones
00:22:09.180 that are doing the work to grow
00:22:11.320 and the areas where people want to move to.
00:22:14.320 We've got about 24 mid-sized municipalities
00:22:16.260 that are just bursting at the seams
00:22:17.740 that need to continue growing.
00:22:19.600 And by not, by failing to work cooperatively with us,
00:22:23.220 he's politicizing something
00:22:24.700 that is an issue that we all care about
00:22:26.120 and we all want to solve together.
00:22:27.740 And it's not helpful.
00:22:28.600 All right, Premier Smith, we have to take a break.
00:22:30.760 When we come back, I do want to ask you
00:22:32.120 about your heritage fund
00:22:32.980 and also your opening of an embassy in Ottawa
00:22:35.740 and trying to sell the province here in Toronto.
00:22:39.340 So more of that when we come back.
00:22:44.020 Bank more encores
00:22:45.280 when you switch to a Scotiabank banking package.
00:22:48.520 Learn more at scotiabank.com slash banking packages.
00:22:52.120 Conditions apply.
00:22:54.080 Scotiabank, you're richer than you think.
00:22:56.320 When I found out my friend got a great deal
00:22:58.440 on a wool coat from Winner's,
00:23:00.080 I started wondering,
00:23:01.720 is every fabulous item I see from Winner's?
00:23:04.820 Like that woman over there with the designer jeans.
00:23:07.560 Are those from Winner's?
00:23:09.080 Ooh, or those beautiful gold earrings.
00:23:11.540 Did she pay full price?
00:23:12.900 Or that leather tote?
00:23:13.900 Or that cashmere sweater?
00:23:15.100 Or those knee-high boots?
00:23:16.580 That dress?
00:23:17.360 That jacket?
00:23:18.040 Those shoes?
00:23:19.060 Is anyone paying full price for anything?
00:23:21.960 Stop wondering.
00:23:23.280 Start winning.
00:23:24.220 Winners.
00:23:24.780 Find fabulous for less.
00:23:26.200 So, Premier Smith,
00:23:27.620 you announced that you'd like to get the Heritage Fund
00:23:30.380 up to, what is it,
00:23:31.700 between $250 and $400 billion?
00:23:35.320 Did I hear that correctly?
00:23:36.520 With a B?
00:23:37.860 That is right.
00:23:39.420 You know,
00:23:39.640 when you look back on the history of our province,
00:23:41.920 and if we had just had
00:23:43.020 a sustained amount of investment
00:23:45.180 in the Heritage Savings Trust Fund
00:23:46.660 from that original deposit,
00:23:48.380 just allowing it to grow.
00:23:49.360 Hold on.
00:23:49.980 I should stop you there
00:23:51.240 and back up a little bit
00:23:52.180 because I'm sure not everyone knows
00:23:53.580 what the Heritage Fund is.
00:23:54.880 I do.
00:23:55.420 Tell us what this is
00:23:56.480 because that helps explain
00:23:58.080 why you think it should be a lot bigger now.
00:24:01.540 Of course.
00:24:02.280 So, our Heritage Trust Fund
00:24:03.540 began under Peter Lougheed
00:24:05.360 with his vision in,
00:24:06.960 I believe, 1976,
00:24:08.400 where he wanted to deposit
00:24:10.520 a third of the resource royalties
00:24:12.440 that came in
00:24:13.240 with the idea
00:24:14.080 that it would grow over time.
00:24:15.820 Now, of course,
00:24:16.460 when we ended up
00:24:17.200 with the oil crisis
00:24:17.940 in the early 80s,
00:24:20.080 the deposits stopped,
00:24:21.640 but various governments
00:24:22.500 have made inflation adjustments over time.
00:24:25.000 But pretty well,
00:24:26.620 all of the investment income
00:24:27.700 has been taken into general revenues.
00:24:30.140 And so,
00:24:30.560 we want to take an approach now
00:24:31.680 where we keep that investment income
00:24:32.860 in the fund
00:24:33.380 as well as make periodic deposits
00:24:35.320 and grow the funds
00:24:36.680 so it can be substantial by 2050.
00:24:39.880 And the goal there
00:24:41.180 is that you,
00:24:42.380 that's your goal
00:24:43.940 of getting to net zero.
00:24:44.920 Do you think that by 2050,
00:24:47.640 the oil industry
00:24:48.380 will be moving out of Alberta,
00:24:51.140 that it will be subsiding?
00:24:54.380 Well, I would say
00:24:55.360 that we're moving
00:24:56.340 towards carbon neutrality.
00:24:57.980 I think that there
00:24:59.080 is going to be a demand
00:25:00.180 for our oil and natural gas
00:25:01.900 for the foreseeable future.
00:25:03.700 But I don't know
00:25:04.700 what the world demand
00:25:05.800 is going to be in 2050.
00:25:07.740 And so,
00:25:08.000 we have to plan for a future
00:25:09.100 where our resource
00:25:10.520 might not be as in demand
00:25:11.960 as it is today
00:25:13.700 and make the most of it
00:25:14.940 in the meantime.
00:25:16.420 And Norway has been
00:25:17.260 very successful in that.
00:25:18.420 There have been
00:25:19.040 other sovereignty funds,
00:25:21.580 I guess you'd call them.
00:25:23.540 And so,
00:25:24.300 the idea is this will help
00:25:25.560 balance out the province
00:25:27.200 and its economy
00:25:28.680 when oil ceases to be
00:25:31.240 as big of a player,
00:25:32.540 as big of a factor.
00:25:33.540 Well, look,
00:25:35.040 I look at what Norway has done.
00:25:36.860 They started after us
00:25:37.880 and they now have
00:25:38.860 a $1.6 trillion fund.
00:25:41.520 The Alaska Permanent Fund
00:25:42.900 is substantially more than ours
00:25:45.260 and they're able to generate
00:25:46.220 a dividend for their people
00:25:47.420 every single year.
00:25:48.720 And then the sovereign wealth funds
00:25:50.260 in the Middle East,
00:25:51.220 I spoke when I was
00:25:52.960 in the Middle East,
00:25:53.680 I did end up doing
00:25:54.340 a visit to Qatar.
00:25:55.700 And they were pretty
00:25:56.360 straight up about it.
00:25:57.540 They have an objective
00:25:58.560 to grow their fund
00:25:59.240 to a trillion dollars
00:26:00.520 by 2035
00:26:01.600 on the expectation
00:26:03.460 that perhaps
00:26:04.180 there's not going to be
00:26:04.800 as great a demand
00:26:05.560 for their natural gas.
00:26:07.080 So, it just seems like
00:26:08.200 it's prudent management.
00:26:09.880 If we have the responsibility
00:26:10.980 of stewarding these resources
00:26:12.300 as a subnational government
00:26:14.060 and if there is going to be
00:26:17.160 any kind of difficulty
00:26:19.440 getting our product to market
00:26:20.520 or the value of it
00:26:21.980 declining over time,
00:26:23.500 I think we have to make
00:26:24.400 the decisions now
00:26:25.780 so that by 2050
00:26:26.920 we have enough revenue
00:26:28.540 being generated
00:26:29.500 from that investment fund
00:26:31.480 to replace our reliance
00:26:32.800 on resource revenues.
00:26:33.900 If resource revenues
00:26:34.720 are still valuable in 2050
00:26:36.400 and I can tell you
00:26:37.620 our aspiration
00:26:38.540 is that we want to be
00:26:39.760 the best barrel in the market
00:26:41.240 so that we are the,
00:26:42.560 if there is a last barrel
00:26:43.500 in the market,
00:26:44.160 we want it to be
00:26:44.680 an Alberta barrel.
00:26:45.860 But it still may be
00:26:47.000 that we have a longer
00:26:48.320 time horizon than that.
00:26:49.640 But I think we have to plan.
00:26:51.520 What do you do with the fund
00:26:52.600 at that point?
00:26:53.440 Does it become
00:26:54.040 an investment vehicle?
00:26:56.360 Does it, you know,
00:26:57.160 do you draw down on it
00:26:58.360 to pay for health care
00:26:59.860 and education?
00:27:01.660 You know,
00:27:01.920 does it become like the,
00:27:03.920 I know you have talked
00:27:05.760 about an Alberta pension plan,
00:27:07.100 but in Quebec
00:27:07.640 where they do have
00:27:08.420 a provincial pension plan,
00:27:09.580 they use the case
00:27:10.140 to depot
00:27:10.660 as an economic innovator
00:27:13.220 and driver.
00:27:14.760 So what would the fund
00:27:16.340 be used for?
00:27:17.700 Well, I hope
00:27:18.780 that's a very robust discussion
00:27:20.240 in 2050
00:27:21.220 because I think my job
00:27:22.740 is to get it started
00:27:23.600 and to get the expectation there
00:27:25.580 that we can achieve this.
00:27:26.740 And then it will be up
00:27:27.840 to future governments
00:27:28.780 to decide at what point
00:27:30.480 do they convert it
00:27:31.740 from a vehicle
00:27:32.440 that's growing
00:27:33.140 to a vehicle
00:27:34.020 that's going to be
00:27:34.620 generating income.
00:27:35.580 I think that they'll probably
00:27:36.740 be at some point
00:27:37.600 along the way,
00:27:38.700 depending on what
00:27:39.300 our resource revenues are,
00:27:40.500 some government
00:27:41.240 will make a decision
00:27:41.980 that a certain portion
00:27:43.000 goes to offset
00:27:44.480 that revenue loss.
00:27:46.280 But I want to stay
00:27:47.780 focused on a target.
00:27:49.300 Let's figure out
00:27:50.000 where we can be by 2050
00:27:51.200 because that aligns
00:27:52.040 with our carbon neutrality
00:27:52.980 target of 2050 as well.
00:27:54.500 and just have a little bit
00:27:56.740 of additional discipline
00:27:57.840 so that we can make sure
00:28:00.440 that we don't blow
00:28:01.380 this next boom.
00:28:02.160 I think we're in the middle
00:28:02.900 of another oil and gas boom.
00:28:05.000 We have new pipelines
00:28:06.360 coming on stream.
00:28:07.440 Can you really be
00:28:08.600 an oil and gas boom?
00:28:10.160 Hold on.
00:28:10.800 You're in the middle
00:28:11.460 of an oil and gas boom?
00:28:12.460 I didn't think you could
00:28:13.420 do that with
00:28:14.260 Gibault and Trudeau in Ottawa.
00:28:16.420 Oh, well,
00:28:17.000 this is the nice part
00:28:17.840 about some of the decisions
00:28:19.080 that have been made historically
00:28:20.940 that our energy industry
00:28:22.560 has really shifted
00:28:23.860 to oil sands development,
00:28:26.000 which is heavier oil.
00:28:27.400 The Trans Mountain pipeline
00:28:28.840 is really weeks
00:28:31.020 or months away
00:28:31.680 from being open.
00:28:32.720 The coastal gas link pipeline
00:28:34.040 is completed
00:28:34.620 and LNG projects
00:28:36.160 are being proposed.
00:28:37.780 And so I think
00:28:38.540 that there is an opportunity
00:28:39.620 for us to continue
00:28:40.580 increasing production,
00:28:41.540 but we want to be
00:28:42.340 a responsible producer.
00:28:43.720 We also want to reduce
00:28:44.740 the amount of
00:28:45.840 greenhouse gas emissions.
00:28:47.020 So I think we have,
00:28:48.880 at least in the near term horizon,
00:28:52.000 an amazing opportunity
00:28:53.380 to be able to benefit the world,
00:28:56.020 have energy security,
00:28:57.300 energy affordability,
00:28:58.440 as well as reduce emissions
00:28:59.840 and be able to be
00:29:01.320 a really responsible player globally.
00:29:02.940 So yeah,
00:29:03.180 I think we've got some,
00:29:04.580 in the near term,
00:29:05.440 some really positive things
00:29:07.480 happening on the horizon.
00:29:08.820 Okay.
00:29:09.180 Am I wrong to describe,
00:29:10.600 you were in Ontario
00:29:11.460 a little while ago,
00:29:12.220 you had to stop in Ottawa,
00:29:13.200 stop in Toronto.
00:29:14.240 Am I wrong to describe
00:29:15.440 what you set up in Ottawa
00:29:17.340 as Alberta's embassy?
00:29:20.000 I made a joke
00:29:20.960 that that's what Quebec
00:29:22.480 calls their office.
00:29:24.520 I was corrected.
00:29:25.200 They said they don't call it
00:29:25.960 an embassy,
00:29:26.440 but it was kind of
00:29:27.080 a funny joke.
00:29:28.300 No, it's just an office
00:29:29.460 and it is a way for us.
00:29:31.140 We have an office
00:29:31.940 in the,
00:29:32.580 co-located
00:29:33.680 in the Washington embassy
00:29:35.640 as well
00:29:36.200 for Alberta interests.
00:29:37.480 We share a floor
00:29:38.120 actually with Ontario.
00:29:39.600 We've got 16 offices
00:29:40.860 internationally
00:29:41.820 and it just felt like
00:29:43.460 it was time
00:29:43.980 for us to have an office
00:29:44.900 in Ottawa.
00:29:45.440 I mean,
00:29:45.660 I look at Quebec.
00:29:46.640 Quebec has
00:29:47.660 the lion's share
00:29:48.780 of its people
00:29:49.460 are in the Federal
00:29:50.060 Civil Service.
00:29:50.900 They're right across
00:29:51.620 the river
00:29:52.120 in Hull
00:29:52.980 and they feel a need
00:29:54.160 to have an office
00:29:54.840 in Ottawa.
00:29:55.680 So if that's the case,
00:29:56.620 then I think it's important
00:29:57.620 for Alberta to be there
00:29:58.720 so my ministers
00:29:59.360 can come out,
00:30:00.200 they can have meetings,
00:30:01.280 they can meet with people
00:30:02.360 who share common interests,
00:30:05.580 they can meet with ministers
00:30:06.540 and that was the purpose
00:30:07.820 for it
00:30:08.180 is that I feel increasingly
00:30:09.780 with the federal government
00:30:10.960 interfering in our jurisdiction,
00:30:13.020 coming up with policies,
00:30:14.200 surprising them with us.
00:30:15.160 We want to make sure
00:30:15.720 we have someone on the ground
00:30:16.600 so that we know exactly
00:30:17.600 what the status is
00:30:18.860 of some of those initiatives.
00:30:20.700 You were in Toronto
00:30:22.520 trying to drum up business,
00:30:23.700 trying to get people
00:30:24.280 to invest in Alberta.
00:30:25.640 I could easily make the pitch
00:30:28.340 for moving,
00:30:30.240 but that's just to live in
00:30:31.260 the area that you represent
00:30:32.540 of High River
00:30:33.100 because several years ago
00:30:35.340 I spent a lot of time there.
00:30:36.260 It's stunningly beautiful
00:30:37.620 as is the whole province,
00:30:39.140 but what's your sales pitch
00:30:40.740 for Alberta right now,
00:30:43.120 especially to Central Canadians
00:30:44.620 who mostly hear bad things,
00:30:47.380 not mostly bad things,
00:30:48.480 but you know what I'm talking about.
00:30:49.760 There is a Central Canadian
00:30:52.340 Laurentian elite view
00:30:54.380 of backwater Alberta.
00:30:56.160 So what do you say
00:30:57.400 when you come to Toronto?
00:30:59.760 Well, I have to tell you,
00:31:01.200 this is the most exciting place
00:31:03.520 to be in Canada,
00:31:05.200 maybe in North America,
00:31:06.320 that we have created
00:31:08.000 an environment here
00:31:09.020 where anyone who wants
00:31:10.580 to invest can do so
00:31:11.820 and get a greater return
00:31:13.040 on their money
00:31:13.660 than virtually,
00:31:14.500 than anywhere else in Canada
00:31:15.560 and most of the United States.
00:31:17.560 Our 8% corporate income tax rate
00:31:19.320 is 30% below
00:31:20.600 what exists in the combined
00:31:22.740 provincial federal rate
00:31:24.060 in the rest of the country,
00:31:25.420 as well as better
00:31:26.980 than 44 U.S. states.
00:31:28.800 We've got no sales tax,
00:31:30.060 we've got no capital tax,
00:31:31.660 we've got a well-educated workforce,
00:31:34.060 some amazing premier universities
00:31:36.280 and polytechnics
00:31:37.840 and technical colleges,
00:31:39.520 and we have an affordability proposal
00:31:42.900 or proposition
00:31:43.600 that's second to none.
00:31:44.700 You can live not just
00:31:45.660 in Calgary or Edmonton,
00:31:46.720 but also Red Deer,
00:31:48.120 Lethbridge, Medicine Hat,
00:31:49.180 Grand Prairie, Fort McMurray,
00:31:50.420 and within an hour drive
00:31:52.540 of any of those jurisdictions.
00:31:53.720 So you can get
00:31:54.560 an affordable home
00:31:55.780 if you want to own a home
00:31:57.100 and have a backyard
00:31:57.960 that's attainable here.
00:32:00.620 And we have a growing tech industry,
00:32:04.140 we have agri-food,
00:32:05.060 we've got oil and gas,
00:32:06.000 we're going to be at the forefront
00:32:07.180 of green technology,
00:32:08.340 we've got a film industry
00:32:09.560 that is vibrant and robust.
00:32:11.920 Is that housing part though?
00:32:13.440 Not for everyone.
00:32:13.700 Has that housing part
00:32:15.140 really taken off
00:32:16.180 with young people?
00:32:17.860 Are you seeing an influx
00:32:19.040 of people in their 20s
00:32:21.040 and early 30s saying,
00:32:22.020 you know what,
00:32:22.500 I'm leaving Ontario
00:32:24.140 and I'm going to Alberta
00:32:25.180 because I can buy a house there?
00:32:26.600 Is that happening?
00:32:27.960 That is happening.
00:32:29.260 In fact,
00:32:29.580 I just was even reading
00:32:30.500 some stories
00:32:31.180 about some commuters
00:32:32.860 from who are working
00:32:34.440 in Vancouver
00:32:35.140 but living in Edmonton
00:32:37.180 or Calgary
00:32:37.840 because it's so much cheaper.
00:32:39.740 There was one family,
00:32:41.080 he's a marketing professor.
00:32:42.520 He can have a home
00:32:43.740 for $600,000 in Edmonton
00:32:45.840 and then just hop on a plane
00:32:47.020 and be in Vancouver
00:32:48.180 for four days a week
00:32:49.180 and then come home
00:32:49.940 and be able to enjoy
00:32:51.480 our beautiful outdoors
00:32:52.740 and landscapes
00:32:53.440 and cheaper property values
00:32:54.860 and the lower cost
00:32:55.560 of living here.
00:32:56.120 So I would say yes
00:32:57.400 and others are just relocating here
00:32:59.340 because I think a lot of,
00:33:00.720 especially in the post-COVID era,
00:33:02.640 there's a lot more tolerance,
00:33:04.380 I think,
00:33:04.800 for telecommuting
00:33:05.940 and being available
00:33:07.080 on these kinds of forums
00:33:08.560 and so what I've heard
00:33:10.480 from a number of individuals
00:33:12.600 is that as long as you're within
00:33:14.180 an hour drive
00:33:15.180 of an international airport,
00:33:16.620 you can pretty well work
00:33:17.340 anywhere in the world
00:33:18.120 if you need to be able
00:33:18.980 to get somewhere
00:33:19.580 and we've got two
00:33:20.840 international airports
00:33:21.800 and we've got an affordable way
00:33:25.500 of living
00:33:26.000 and affordable housing
00:33:27.260 in a number
00:33:29.300 of different municipalities
00:33:30.280 within that distance.
00:33:31.820 And of course,
00:33:32.760 our beautiful mountain parks
00:33:33.700 at BAM, Jasper, Waterton.
00:33:36.320 There's so much to do
00:33:37.580 from an outdoors point of view.
00:33:38.880 It's not just all work.
00:33:39.820 There's a lot of play as well.
00:33:41.020 So I feel like
00:33:42.100 that is the reason why
00:33:43.580 not only businesses
00:33:44.440 would want to invest here
00:33:45.700 but also they would want
00:33:47.100 to move their employees here.
00:33:48.560 They would want to hire here
00:33:49.660 because I think that we can
00:33:50.860 we can make an argument
00:33:52.220 about the prosperity
00:33:54.060 that both the company
00:33:54.960 and the individual
00:33:55.500 is going to have
00:33:56.060 by being in Alberta.
00:33:57.820 As someone that deals
00:33:58.700 with Pearson Airport a lot,
00:33:59.920 I truly appreciate Calgary
00:34:01.240 because it works.
00:34:02.360 Don't tell Edmonton
00:34:03.100 I was nice to Calgary
00:34:04.000 and not nice to Edmonton
00:34:04.920 but Calgary Airport works.
00:34:07.240 Premier, thanks for your time today.
00:34:08.780 If I don't see you soon
00:34:10.060 in Alberta,
00:34:10.620 perhaps we'll see you here
00:34:11.540 back in Ontario.
00:34:13.240 You bet.
00:34:13.580 Thanks, Brian.
00:34:14.520 I hope you enjoyed
00:34:15.480 this week's episode
00:34:16.400 and I hope that you
00:34:17.060 take some time to share it
00:34:18.220 on social media,
00:34:19.040 send it to your friends,
00:34:19.900 so on and so forth.
00:34:20.860 Make sure that you
00:34:21.500 hit the subscribe button.
00:34:23.120 Full Comment
00:34:23.720 is a post-media podcast.
00:34:25.820 My name's Brian Little,
00:34:26.720 your host.
00:34:27.220 This episode was produced
00:34:28.300 by Andre Pru
00:34:29.140 with theme music
00:34:30.220 by Bryce Hall.
00:34:31.100 Kevin Libin
00:34:31.620 is the executive producer.
00:34:33.420 As I mentioned,
00:34:33.980 you can subscribe
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00:34:42.540 Help us out
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00:34:47.680 Thanks for listening,
00:34:48.420 thanks for watching.
00:34:49.140 Until next time,
00:34:50.280 I'm Brian Lilly.
00:34:51.480 Ah,
00:34:53.320 Michael,
00:34:53.400 thank you.
00:34:53.760 Bye for now.
00:34:54.540 Bye for now.
00:34:55.600 Bye for now.
00:34:57.940 Bye for now.
00:34:59.220 Bye.
00:35:03.800 Bye for now.