Full Comment - Driven into the ditch by Trudeau, Liberals have no clear way out

00:00:00.000 That is why today we are announcing a three-year pause on the federal pollution price on heating

00:00:12.820 oil so that we can give everyone the time and ability to switch to heat pumps.

00:00:21.260 That moment right there, that might be the moment that Canadians realized it was pretty

00:00:26.600 much over for the Trudeau government. Prime Minister Justin Trudeau standing in front of

00:00:31.140 his Atlantic Canadian Liberal MPs and saying with a straight face that he was pausing the

00:00:36.620 carbon tax on home heating oil and claiming that this was about fighting climate change

00:00:41.560 and not just a brazen attempt to save his political fortunes. Hello and welcome to the Full Comment

00:00:47.260 podcast. I'm Brian Lilly, your host, and today we're talking about the state of the Trudeau

00:00:51.860 government. It's been a tough few months for them in the polls, but the last few weeks in

00:00:56.840 particular have been really tough on them. It's one of the hardest falls I've seen in my

00:01:01.960 near quarter century of covering politics. So one of the questions is, can they recover?

00:01:07.120 Is there someone to take over if Trudeau decides it's time to leave? And what about Pierre

00:01:12.620 Pollyup and the Conservatives? Chris Hilley is a political columnist with the National Post.

00:01:16.960 He spent decades covering the political ups and downs of politicians of all stripes. He's seen

00:01:22.060 governments come and go, and some even rescue themselves from seeming oblivion. He seemed like

00:01:27.620 the right guest to have on this week to take a political temperature check and to survey the state

00:01:33.260 of the Fair Dominion. I got to say, the last couple of weeks for the Trudeau liberals have been one of the

00:01:40.940 most disastrous things I've ever watched in politics. And I've seen governments fall apart.

00:01:45.800 We've, you know, I wasn't covering it, but I'm old enough to remember the Mulroney or Kim Campbell

00:01:52.560 Conservatives going down to two seats. But this is a very rapid decline for them, wouldn't you say?

00:01:58.560 It's a rapid decline brought on, as you say, by them just turning tail on some of their,

00:02:04.560 well, carbon tax, their central environmental policy. You can't, I mean, the whole point of a

00:02:11.940 carbon tax is supposed to be that it's simple and that you don't have carve-outs. You don't have

00:02:16.620 special deals for special industries. Now, Canada is a big country. You pretty much have to have

00:02:21.840 allowances for people who live in rural areas as opposed to urban areas.

00:02:25.640 And they've got an increased rebate for rural areas. And so that does account, and they're

00:02:31.400 doubling that across the country. So that is something for everyone. But they were making

00:02:36.560 very clear that this was a means of helping people in Atlantic Canada specifically, because

00:02:42.500 more Atlantic Canadians use a home heating room than anywhere else in the province. And

00:02:47.500 it's ridiculous. You know, only a month ago, you had Environment Minister Stephen Guilbeau saying, 0.75

00:02:53.700 you know, how ridiculous would it look if we carved out things for different parts of the

00:02:58.640 province? I mean, it just wouldn't work that way. And then they went and did it, because for that

00:03:02.160 long, Atlantic liberal MPs have been going to their party and saying, you have to do something or this

00:03:07.380 is going to kill us. Exactly. Exactly. And so, you know, I'm barely even seeing anyone in media or

00:03:13.820 anywhere else even giving the benefit of the doubt that this is sort of in any way. I mean, it's helped

00:03:18.980 for Atlantic Canadians, for sure. But it's a political move. And after seven years or eight

00:03:27.180 years of them telling you that this is what we need to do our part to save the planet.

00:03:33.720 And now they go and just torpedo the whole idea of a carbon tax. And for what? I mean,

00:03:39.920 why would you vote for the party that's going to take the carbon tax off home heating oil for three

00:03:46.440 years, presumably bringing it back afterwards, when you could vote for the party that's going to get

00:03:50.940 rid of it altogether? And when they bring it back after the three year pause, they will have increased

00:03:56.200 it three times. Yeah, presumably. Yeah. Because it goes up every April 1st or July 1st. I can't remember

00:04:02.460 which time of the year the carbon tax goes up. But it's remarkable. The line I've been using is

00:04:09.120 this was all done because Justin Trudeau's support in Atlantic Canada was melting faster than the

00:04:14.580 polarized caps. That red wall in Atlantic Canada that surprised many, myself included, in 2015, I thought

00:04:22.260 he would do well in Atlantic Canada. Yeah. I didn't think he would sweep the way he did. And that formed

00:04:28.600 the basis of his majority government. He's still got 24 out of 32 seats in Atlantic Canada. But every

00:04:36.700 poll is showing he's going to be just about wiped out one seat. Some projections say in Newfoundland out

00:04:43.160 of seven, about four in New Brunswick could be wiped out in Nova Scotia and PEI. That's a significant 0.91

00:04:49.540 drop. And there's no way that he can form government without that. So do the voters in Atlantic Canada

00:04:55.480 turn around and say, well, sure, it's craven politics, but it helps my pocketbook. So I'll

00:05:01.080 take it. Yeah. Well, look, craven politics is, look, you got to go out there and fight for your

00:05:06.800 best interest in politics. And they've successfully done that. The Atlantic caucus has successfully done

00:05:13.620 that. But that doesn't mean it's going to save their bacon. I mean, you and I have seen all sorts

00:05:18.540 of governments do last Hail Mary passes at the end of the day, throwing out policies that they held

00:05:24.780 dear. It doesn't usually work because at the end of the day, you look ridiculous. And especially if 0.99

00:05:30.080 there's another party that's offering you the same relief or better, Atlantic Canadians have proven 0.99

00:05:36.460 themselves swing voters. And that's, it helps. It helps when you want to get things done in Ottawa.

00:05:45.020 The, the announcement that Trudeau made, um, it's not lost on me that he made it as Pierre

00:05:53.140 Paulieff, the conservative leader was flying to Windsor, Nova Scotia, middle of the writing of King's

00:05:59.480 hands. Scott Bryson's all writing. Remember the, you know, everything bad happened to the Trudeau

00:06:04.640 liberals at one point was Scott Bryson involved, but he, uh, you know, he held that writing and the

00:06:11.000 liberals have held it for 20 years. That's a long time. Pierre Paulie, I've had a thousand people out

00:06:17.580 in, on a Thursday night in October with no election on. Yeah. That's, you know, when I've covered

00:06:26.120 election campaigns, I have not seen it, you know, it's not, not easy to get a thousand people out at

00:06:32.080 the height of a contested election campaign. And we're potentially two years out, you know,

00:06:37.700 we're not just right in the middle of it. We're not just not in an election campaign. It could

00:06:42.200 potentially be ages. And if I'm the liberals, I don't know why, well, I mean, I don't know what,

00:06:49.140 what you're planning at this point. I mean, you don't want an election now. I guess you hang on as

00:06:52.620 long as you can. If, if that's Justin Trudeau's, uh, if that's what he wants to do, if he just wants

00:06:57.620 to stay prime minister, but you know, I guess the bright side for liberals is there's two, two years

00:07:02.140 to turn things around, but then you wonder what could possibly, what would that be? Um, I guess

00:07:08.380 every two week period can't be as terrible as the last two weeks. Yeah. The last few weeks have been

00:07:13.760 really bad. I do want to point out, I believe, uh, both national post and Toronto sun had news of

00:07:19.660 this poll over the last few days. The latest Leger numbers showed that, um, not only were the

00:07:26.200 conservatives ahead on the national numbers at 40% support, but in Atlantic Canada, they had 46%

00:07:33.660 of course. And that was in a poll taken the Friday, Saturday and Sunday after Trudeau's big

00:07:39.640 announcement, which of course was all the news in Atlantic Canada. Yeah. And this is with Pierre

00:07:43.900 Polyev. I mean, let's not forget how long, how recently people were saying, oh, no, I mean,

00:07:47.480 Pierre Polyev is a terrible choice. He's unlikable. People won't, people won't cotton onto him.

00:07:53.200 People won't, uh, like his, his attitude. I mean, either, I mean, I think he's found something that

00:08:01.340 he didn't have before in terms of his, his presentation. Um, but this, this is, this is

00:08:09.160 Justin Trudeau to me. This is, this is like, this is like when Doug Ford, you know, Doug Ford versus

00:08:14.720 Christine Elliott for the PC leadership here in Ontario, that was really the race to be the next

00:08:18.920 premier. And that was the race with, with the conservatives federally, I think, but I'm

00:08:25.040 impressed with Polyev. I never thought I'd see him in the forties. I thought he would, I thought

00:08:31.120 he could become prime minister, you know, with a mid thirties, um, results with, with a minority,

00:08:36.780 but this is really spectacular to see. And he's over delivering, I would say right now. Um, and

00:08:43.060 the question is, can he keep it? The back in the end of May, there were a lot of polls that

00:08:50.420 still had the, uh, the conservatives and the liberals tied. I think there was a Leger poll

00:08:56.080 then, and then had them, I think it was effectively tied 33 for the conservatives, 31 for the liberals,

00:09:04.940 which would have given us pretty much the parliament we have now. Now, the seat projections would say

00:09:12.740 over 200 seats for the conservatives. And, you know, the, on Monday, they're going to have this

00:09:21.300 vote to, um, you know, for Polyev's motion that says you've got to either expand the home heating

00:09:29.160 oil, uh, tax break for everyone on the carbon tax. Uh, you've got to expand it to people who use

00:09:35.960 natural gas, propane, what have you, or liberal and NDP MPs have to stand up and say, oh no,

00:09:42.660 we won't do that. So they're kind of between a rock and a hard place. And, and, and folks are going

00:09:49.500 to notice if you're one of 76 liberal MPs in Ontario, where almost everyone uses natural gas, how do you

00:09:57.760 turn around and say to your voters? Yeah. You just, we don't care enough. Yeah. Natural gas,

00:10:02.360 which is what 30% cleaner in terms of emissions than home heating oil, which, so there's no way to

00:10:09.380 sell this at all. I mean, you'd have been better off sticking with home heating oil, uh, under,

00:10:16.000 under this plan. And that's just, it, it, you know, I, I feel like they killed the carbon tax dead

00:10:21.760 in a stroke, um, doing that. I don't see how, how, as you say, how can they possibly stand up in

00:10:28.480 the house of commons and tell someone who's burning cleaner, cleaner fuel to heat their home

00:10:34.260 that, that they're not entitled to something who's down the, down the block. Someone's burning

00:10:41.240 dirtier fuel. I mean, the whole idea of the carbon tax is that it should be incentivizing that person

00:10:45.380 with the dirty fuel to get the cleaner fuel. And now they're rewarding. Well, they're not rewarding

00:10:49.360 people. I mean, Atlantic Canada, like you can't just flip a switch and, and, and have a heat pump

00:10:55.560 or have a, or switch natural gas. Well, apparently we're going to flip this way and in three years

00:11:00.740 install thousands upon thousands of heat pumps that may or may not, we may not have enough of

00:11:06.720 the manufacturer. It may not have enough skilled tradespeople to install them. And there's questions

00:11:11.220 about whether they will work in the colder parts of the country. Yeah. Well, those are the sorts of

00:11:14.900 things that I don't think this government really thinks that far in advance. I mean,

00:11:21.100 the, the, the, the announcement, like I've been saying for a while, like the announcement is the

00:11:23.780 policy. You know what I mean? Like, it's like, we're going to come out and we're going to say

00:11:27.920 something and it may or may not happen down the line, but we just want to get through the day here 0.90

00:11:34.800 without having too much crap fall down on our heads. And that's what, that, that's what they did for

00:11:40.380 that one day. Uh, and they, you know, probably there's probably some liberal voters in, uh,

00:11:46.100 Atlantic Canada. I think, oh, thank God. Like, all right, now I can go back to my safety vote and I

00:11:50.020 get some money off my home heating, but everyone else, why, why, why would I, I mean, the NDP is,

00:11:56.700 is, as I always called for, you know, to, to, to exempt, um, home heating from certainly the GST.

00:12:02.540 I'm not sure about the carbon tax, not the carbon tax. Um, but you know, there's other options for you

00:12:07.100 out there. If you want to save money on, on your, on, on your home heating. And I just don't

00:12:11.580 understand. And then, and then, you know, other things that the liberals are doing recently, you

00:12:15.220 know, smart, relatively smart things. I think, you know, you got new housing minister, Sean Fraser,

00:12:20.060 who's, who's putting the screws to municipalities that won't, uh, approve dense enough developments.

00:12:27.120 But I mean, that's, that was a pure polyev idea and not originally, but he, he was the one who

00:12:31.700 popularized it just recently. And everyone, all liberals saying, well, that won't work. It's ridiculous.

00:12:35.800 We need to work with municipalities. You know, we need to convene and we need to, and we need

00:12:40.120 to be friendly with everyone. And then suddenly you've got Sean Fraser sending off a, uh, a barbed

00:12:45.660 letter to, to the mayor of Calgary saying, no, we're not going to, we're not going to approve

00:12:49.300 this. Um, we're not going to approve this, this development. We're not going to fund this

00:12:55.060 development unless you make it denser. So let's just do an aside on that. Um, yeah, some good

00:13:02.560 policies in there, but they're going about doing it in a way, what you just described,

00:13:07.120 the announcement is the policy. They're going city by city. Yeah. 444 municipalities just in

00:13:14.200 Ontario. They could have gone to the provinces and Ontario has just gone through a legislative

00:13:19.600 process. British Columbia did to do densification. And that includes saying as of right, you can

00:13:26.500 build three homes on what used to be considered a single family dwelling lot. The provincial

00:13:32.540 government in Ontario went with three because too many municipalities balked at four and they

00:13:38.300 said, well, you know, three works in some, four would work in some, but not others. So

00:13:43.040 they did that. They could have just gone to the province and said, make it four and we'll

00:13:46.320 give you extra money and you can help us distribute it. Yep. But you don't get as many photo ops.

00:13:50.900 No, you don't get to go out with every single announcement. And so they, you know, they, they

00:13:56.680 could have worked with British Columbia and they could have worked with Ontario, the two

00:13:59.700 places where this is the biggest issue, but well, they're not liberals, so we won't work

00:14:05.740 with them. Yeah. It's, uh, it, it is a government that just seems to be, uh, flailing it at every

00:14:12.420 turn. Now you've got this two environmental conferences going on in Ottawa in the days after this

00:14:18.200 carbon tax announcement. You've got Catherine McKenna and future liberal leader, Mark Carney,

00:14:23.820 uh, both criticizing it. Yeah. Uh, well, of course they are, but how can you not criticize

00:14:29.320 it? It's, it's just a complete abdication of the whole idea of a carbon tax. You've had,

00:14:33.900 you've got Percy down and Lawrence Martin, both recently coming up with columns saying that

00:14:38.860 Justin Trudeau has got to go and Percy down is, you know, unless you're a real political

00:14:43.420 want, you're not going to know who he is, but he's a big deal in liberal circles.

00:14:46.900 Yes. He was John Kretchen's chief of staff for a time. He was a liberal Senator for years

00:14:52.940 and Lawrence Martin, you know, globe columnist, who's not been unfriendly to the Trudeau liberal

00:14:58.780 to say the least. And for them to both come out and say, this guy's time's up. That's significant.

00:15:06.140 It's significant, except who, except who replaces him? I mean, yeah, it's, it's quite clear that his

00:15:12.520 time is up, but someone's got to be a liberal leader. And I mean, who wants to donate their

00:15:16.480 body to that cause? I mean, I mean, you know, there are, there's only so many Kathleen wins

00:15:22.060 in the world, right? I mean, that was a, that was a, uh, a clapped out government here in Ontario

00:15:27.580 that Kathleen Wynne came in and she's a great campaigner and she, you know, she pulled it 0.99

00:15:31.600 out of the fire. There's not many people that can do that. And I look at the, and she did that in 2014,

00:15:35.980 but not 2018. No, no, that's right. Well, and then, and then, you know, the Ontario liberals have

00:15:40.800 to look at that and say, did we accomplish anything in those four years that is worth

00:15:45.940 the oblivion that we now live in? There's many in Ontario, the liberals who were in power for

00:15:52.840 15 years are now the minivan party. Yeah. They can all commute to work together. That's right. And

00:15:58.000 the liberals have, you know, I don't think the federal liberals are ever going to, you know,

00:16:01.880 they, they hit bottom with Ignatieff. I think that's probably their floor. I don't think they're

00:16:08.220 going to get wiped out to three or four seats, but, but they're not supposed to like this, you know,

00:16:13.920 this is, this is an incredible brand that Justin Trudeau was driving into the ditch here. Um, let,

00:16:21.500 let me ask you about that then, uh, because part of Percy Downs letter was talking about how the

00:16:27.740 liberals need to get back to the center. And there are still liberals out there who

00:16:33.760 talk as if this is a centrist party. They haven't noticed that this is not a centrist party. This

00:16:41.780 is not your grandfather's or your father's or your uncle's liberal party anymore. This is the party of

00:16:48.380 Justin Trudeau. In fact, he, he, he even calls it a movement. He doesn't call it a party. It's,

00:16:52.740 it's a movement built around it. They got rid of membership fees. So like, I'm probably considered

00:16:59.960 part of the movement because as any smart journalist, I've signed up for their mailing list.

00:17:04.200 All they need is your email and you're part of their movement. Yep. Um, I'm sure, you know,

00:17:09.520 you probably don't even have to sign up. It'll probably just arrive.

00:17:12.980 So you and I are likely members of this movement that I don't know about you, but I have no intention

00:17:17.620 of voting for, and they, they've just built it all around Trudeau. And now his brand is falling apart.

00:17:26.920 I think that's exactly right. I think it's, it's not a left, right thing. It's a Trudeau thing.

00:17:30.780 Like Trudeau. Yeah. I, I think he's probably to the left of your, your average liberal government

00:17:37.620 over the, over the decades. But I don't think there's anything like, it's not like he's, he's a

00:17:42.800 coherent leftist or a coherent ideologue of any sort. I just think it's just a mess of preferences

00:17:48.900 and, and weird ideas pinging around his, his head. And there's no one who seems to be in charge

00:17:55.980 who has any ability to sort of, I mean, this has always been true. Like whether he's going on

00:18:02.480 vacation on the Iacons Island or saying some stupid stuff about canoe storage, like this is just, 0.99

00:18:07.740 as you say, it's all him. He does what he seems to do, what he wants, even when it seems to be an 0.98

00:18:14.140 absolutely terrible idea. Um, and now they're paying the price. All they can do is, is just

00:18:19.640 try and give people what they want. Um, you know, so we're listening after we're going to do all these

00:18:27.400 things that you need after eight years when the opposition parties are promising them as well.

00:18:32.660 I don't know. I mean, I just, I, I, if, if I was liberal, I would probably want a new leader too.

00:18:39.800 But I, as I say, I just can't imagine who would want to do that to their resume, to, to be the

00:18:45.020 person who finally, um, the next Michael Ignatieff. I mean, that's no one, that's not anything to aspire

00:18:51.200 to. You know, there's obviously ambitious people in the party and there's been a lot of talk of

00:18:55.780 Chrystia Freeland. Some people see her as a savior. I don't know why. I don't know why either. Um,

00:19:01.280 like I, I, I, she's a, she's a very intelligent, accomplished person, but I don't, I don't think

00:19:05.600 she's a very good politician. No. So I don't see her translating to retail politics on a national 1.00

00:19:12.800 level when she speaks to adults, like she's, uh, reading a bedtime story. Well, that's right.

00:19:17.300 And she's never had to, she's never contested it. She's never even contested a tough riding,

00:19:20.960 right? Which is more than less than you can say about Justin Trudeau. I mean, Trudeau went into a

00:19:26.000 tough riding and, and, and paid his dues in that respect because the party wasn't willing to lay

00:19:31.180 out the, the, um, sort of the red carpet for him, which was in hindsight, probably a pretty good

00:19:37.760 instinct. I mean, I always go back, like, you remember when, before Justin Trudeau took over

00:19:42.200 and they were in the, in the, in the dumps and they had however many ridiculous number of seats

00:19:47.760 and they were like, well, we're going to, we're going to renew, we're going to have a new Kingston

00:19:50.400 conference. We're going to get all of these smart people together and we're going to decide what

00:19:53.840 the liberal party of Canada really stands for. Oh, Justin's in, forget it. It's done. It's done.

00:19:59.040 We're going to win. We're going to win. We're going to win. That's what we want. That's what

00:20:01.680 we like. We like winning. And Justin Trudeau is going to win for us. And when he leaves,

00:20:05.240 they're going to be just as untethered from any kind of, you know, what is this party?

00:20:12.520 What is it? But I think someone like Frankie Bubbles, uh, or industry minister, is that what he is now?

00:20:20.520 Um, Francois-Philippe Champagne, of course, I'm talking about it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We'll see.

00:20:24.440 Yeah. Yeah. He's more of an old fashioned business liberal. I'm not going to call him a blue liberal

00:20:31.660 because I don't think he is, but he, but he's a business oriented liberal. Uh, I don't know that

00:20:36.980 the party would accept a guy like that now. It's, you know, has the party changed and morphed? Do they

00:20:43.640 expect that you're just going to, without thinking, adopt the latest cause and change your Twitter

00:20:50.320 avatar, uh, to reflect that you're now with the current thing? Well, I feel like that wave may be

00:20:55.120 kind of cresting. I don't know. Like in terms of what people, I hate, I hate the word woke, but it does

00:21:00.760 paint a picture of, of what we're talking about here. I feel like that's that, that horrible sort of

00:21:08.780 performative Twitter garbage that, that Trudeau and his, his gang are so dedicated to. Um, I feel 0.96

00:21:18.860 like that's less of a thing. I'm not, I don't know. It's just, it's just a feeling. Like I feel like

00:21:22.780 people just aren't buying that anymore. And I think Champagne would be, is, would be an interesting

00:21:28.140 choice quite apart from, you know, where, whether he's blue or red or, or whether the party would

00:21:33.100 accept it. But to me, that's like, he's boring. That's kind of almost what I would want if I was

00:21:38.860 liberal. Like, I don't want another cult of personality. I don't want, I want like a manager

00:21:45.660 and someone that voters might just say, well, you know, maybe they don't like Pierre Polyev,

00:21:51.100 but they, they couldn't stand Justin Trudeau. And here's this relatively inoffensive guy in a suit,

00:21:56.380 uh, and regular socks, uh, who doesn't tweet that often. And maybe that's what, but I don't know.

00:22:04.620 I mean, we're, I'm, we're just stabbing in the, I'm just stabbing in the dark here and I don't even

00:22:07.980 have any skin in the game. You mentioned the socks thing and I laughed. And of course, um,

00:22:12.940 it's funny that liberals now get angry when, uh, they, uh, you know, somebody brings up socks,

00:22:19.100 but that was something that they used for their branding to start with. And then when it,

00:22:24.780 you know, started to be the butt of jokes, then they became now, now we, we don't want to talk

00:22:31.260 about socks anymore. Yeah. Well, I mean, look, you look back at, at the early days of Trudeau,

00:22:37.980 and you look at some of the things that were written about him and how he would, you know,

00:22:41.500 rescue the new world order from, I mean, it's just, what the hell, like, what were people thinking?

00:22:47.180 You know, I looked at the guy and saw just, just, I don't want to be too insulting about it,

00:22:52.780 but like just a regular politician, average politician with a famous last name, like why

00:23:00.140 anyone thought that this guy, when then you listen to him talk with his, you know, this weird,

00:23:06.460 this mixture of sort of old time religion, like peacekeeping and, and, uh,

00:23:11.660 which we never got back, which we never, well, we went to Mali for like a year and then scampered out

00:23:16.860 of their UN very small operation with a very small operation. And the UN was like, could you please

00:23:21.180 stay? And we're like, no, no, no, no, no, this is dangerous here. We don't want, yeah. Whoa, whoa.

00:23:26.860 Like that's the, don't you understand the reason we're into peacekeeping is because we don't want

00:23:31.100 to like put ourselves in danger. Like this is, this is, this has always been the scan. Um,

00:23:37.900 and you know, it's, he's sort of, when you look back at the beginning, like he's talking about whipping out

00:23:41.740 your CS CF 18s, you know, he's against, he did admiring China, just, he said all this bizarre

00:23:49.020 stuff and it just, no one noticed. And to me, I mean, I've written a few times over the years,

00:23:54.220 just like, he's weak, like he's a weird guy. Like he, he, he has weird instincts and he says strange

00:24:00.940 things. And for a while people just applauded. And now I don't know how you get that back.

00:24:08.300 Right. Like there's no, you know, Stephen Harper was, was, uh, disliked, um, by a lot of people in

00:24:15.580 the same way Trudeau was, but he didn't, it, people weren't, people were never crazy about

00:24:21.500 Stephen Harper. There was no Harper mania. Um, there was Trudeau mania. He can't get, get that back.

00:24:28.460 It's just, I don't understand. I, I don't know. And that's why I guess I sort of think maybe a new

00:24:33.660 leader is the only path because how can they, what's going to happen over the next two years?

00:24:39.100 I guess anything could happen over the next two years, but I don't see what,

00:24:41.740 what could possibly rescue them. Um, you know, unless something horrible happens to the opposition,

00:24:48.220 it's, it's, it's a, it's an incredible situation, but we have to realize it is only just a couple of

00:24:51.740 weeks. Um, you know, in a year, some horrible other thing might've happened.

00:24:57.660 Yeah. Well, I mean, six, six months of polling have shown steady growth conservatives. Yes.

00:25:02.460 It's, I'd like to point out voters are fickle and things can change and we're a ways off. Uh,

00:25:07.820 let's take a break here. And when we come back, I want to ask you what Trudeau's legacy, you know,

00:25:13.580 if he leaves now where he's defeated in the next election or what have you,

00:25:17.660 does he have a solid legislative or managerial record that he can point to? And we'll kick around a

00:25:25.260 little bit about what PolyEv has to do to, to try and win more when we're, uh, more when we're back.

00:25:33.900 Did you lock the front door?

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00:25:40.700 No.

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00:26:44.620 So let's say Justin Trudeau does decide to take the proverbial walk in the snow or the

00:26:50.060 surfboard to Tofino, whatever analogy you want to make. Let's say he does that.

00:26:55.740 What kind of legacy does he leave? I remember an editor before the 2019 election, I think it was

00:27:04.220 summer of 2018. They asked me to go through Trudeau's first three or so years and look at his

00:27:13.980 legislative record and see if he'd accomplished anything. And at that point, he had boosted the

00:27:23.180 Canada Child Benefit, which was started by Stephen Harper. They like to claim that they invented it.

00:27:28.940 He increased it. And he made pot legal. And that was really it. Has he done much since

00:27:38.220 the carbon tax? Obviously a signature policy that he's now killing.

00:27:41.900 Yeah. But what would you look at Trudeau's legacy and say that that's what he did?

00:27:47.740 Well, I think if you talk about the child benefit, I mean, I would say one of the things is poverty

00:27:53.420 rates fell and child poverty rates specifically fell quite dramatically under his watch. Now,

00:28:02.540 they were already historically low. They were already historically low. And I'm not saying that

00:28:06.460 Justin Trudeau waved a magic legislative wand and made that happen. But, you know, prime ministers

00:28:12.540 always take credit for good things that happen under their watch. And I think that's something

00:28:16.860 that he can legitimately point to. I think legalizing marijuana was a good idea, still a good idea.

00:28:22.300 I'm really surprised they did it, to be honest. That was one of the things that I saw that I thought

00:28:26.460 was going to, you know, I thought along with electoral reform, that was just going to fall off

00:28:30.780 because someone would just say, oh, it's too hard. You know, just like they always said,

00:28:34.300 Washington will never let us do it. And then we did it and Washington never made a peep about it,

00:28:39.660 really. So I think that's a, you know, it's not earth shattering. But I think it was an interesting

00:28:47.580 thing to do. Canada doesn't usually lead the way on things like that, unless the courts order us to.

00:28:52.700 Yeah, euthanasia or same-sex marriage, you know, the liberals take credit for that. But, 1.00

00:29:00.620 you know, until the courts said they had to do it, they were firmly against the same-sex marriage.

00:29:08.220 You know, I think they've managed the Trump

00:29:13.820 four years, the first four years anyway, pretty well. We'll see about the next four.

00:29:18.220 Yeah. Well, maybe. It's tough to deal with a president when he's in prison. But yeah, like I...

00:29:26.700 Well, I'll quibble with you on that. Because...

00:29:29.500 Sure, you could quibble with any of these things I'm saying.

00:29:31.420 Yeah. But let's talk about it. With Trump, they had to go into the NAFTA renegotiations.

00:29:40.940 And we had this... This document was put out on what our priorities were. It was like five priorities,

00:29:49.740 and it was gender and the environment and stuff like that. The Americans had a multi-page thing. 0.99

00:29:56.620 They're required by law to say what their trade priorities and goals are when they're negotiating

00:30:02.300 a deal like this. It was all about more access for their manufacturers, for their businesses,

00:30:07.500 for their services. And we were like, well, we'd like gender equality. Yeah. Well, okay, who's against that?

00:30:13.260 That's a solid quibble. Yeah. Yeah. No. Then why would you waste... Yeah, who's against that?

00:30:17.420 Why would you waste it? If I'm the American, it's like, fine, have gender... 0.71

00:30:20.140 Have gender equality. Are you actually negotiating on this? Like, fine, have it.

00:30:25.580 But we want something in return. We're going to take your auto industry.

00:30:28.940 Yeah. And we want access to your dairy industry. Fat chance. Yeah. No, any of these things could

00:30:35.660 be quibbled with. And, you know, that's not to say that another government would have done terribly

00:30:40.540 with Trump. But I just think, you know, there were a lot of predictions of doom is all I'm saying.

00:30:47.100 And I think they did a reasonable job on that. I think you could argue... I think it's definitely

00:30:52.300 out... It is definitely an open question. I think the things he did with the Senate...

00:30:58.620 I'm not quite sure what my verdict is on that in terms of all these independent senators and

00:31:03.660 kicking all the senators out of caucus. But I don't think it was... I don't think it was a

00:31:06.780 conspicuously bad idea. I think if you're going to have a Senate, more independence is better

00:31:11.980 than less independence in terms of actually getting sober second thought, as they always say.

00:31:21.580 I think senators have done some good work.

00:31:23.500 Yeah. The Senate has changed dramatically over the last few decades. It's no longer the place where

00:31:29.660 people sit, sleep and drool while the place is in session. It hasn't been in a long time.

00:31:35.100 So, you know, all I would say is, if he's going to call it an independent Senate, I'd like him to

00:31:44.380 appoint a few people that don't think exactly like he does.

00:31:47.340 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's certainly... Yeah. I mean, a lot of the independent senators he appoints

00:31:56.780 could certainly be also called liberal senators. It was a little while ago, but one of the media

00:32:04.220 outlets did a look at the votes and found that the independent Senate caucus voted more with the

00:32:10.700 liberal government than the liberal senators did previously. Well, the problem, of course,

00:32:14.940 is that the Senate can go around and point out problems with legislation, and I think that's

00:32:21.740 useful if you're going to have a Senate, but then I also don't want them to ever vote down

00:32:26.940 legislation that they're not elected at the end of the day.

00:32:31.820 But if they send back a piece of legislation and say, here's problems to fix...

00:32:35.820 And they've done that on some good files. I mean, one random one that comes to mind was

00:32:41.980 when they legalized marijuana, they implemented these draconian new rules that now a cop can stop

00:32:48.060 you without any cause whatsoever and stick a breathalyzer in your mouth. You can theoretically

00:32:52.540 be arrested after... Like, they can come into your house and arrest you if someone says that they've

00:32:59.100 been... that you've been drinking. And these were just, you know, they were over the top pieces of

00:33:03.900 legislation and the Senate tore them apart. Then it passed anyways. I think the Senate's done good work

00:33:09.980 on euthanasia, although they recommended the mental illness thing. So I don't know. I don't think it's

00:33:20.540 a strong legacy, whatever Trudeau has.

00:33:22.380 I mean, you can't say at the end of it, though, that Canada's back. No, you certainly can't say

00:33:32.300 that Canada's back. I mean, on the world stage, I mean, his legacy is maybe...

00:33:40.140 is maybe Canadians finally realizing how useless we are. But okay. And I've heard that a lot recently, 0.98

00:33:46.380 especially after, you know, the India debacle, after the fact that we weren't included on the call

00:33:54.220 to deal with Israel in the war against Hamas in the immediate aftermath of the terrorist attacks.

00:34:01.020 And people said, well, you know, we're not big anyway. And I think back to the 2008-2009 financial

00:34:08.060 crisis. Stephen Harper was the prime minister. Jim Flaherty was his finance minister. Future liberal

00:34:14.940 leader Mark Carney was the Bank of Canada governor. All three of them chaired different committees

00:34:21.740 at the G20 dealing with the global financial crisis. Canada was sought out for advice.

00:34:28.700 I can't see that happening ever at the current moment. No, I mean, we don't have anything to offer.

00:34:39.980 I did Trudeau's answer when a journalist asked him after the G20 in Delhi. He's like, well,

00:34:47.500 what did Canada offer to the communique? He literally said gendered language. I mean,

00:34:51.820 he offered that up. And again, there's nothing wrong with pushing for gender equality. But,

00:34:59.820 you know, no wonder we weren't on the call two weeks later dealing with Israel. Well, 0.90

00:35:04.700 should we call Canada? No, no, we're in war. We don't need gender. Yeah, 0.95

00:35:07.900 we don't need gendered language. I mean, that's, and that's one of the, they're so, 1.00

00:35:14.460 he and his brain trusts are so dedicated to that symbolic stuff that nothing concrete gets done. I feel

00:35:23.420 like, uh, to, to them, that is actually an accomplishment, uh, better language on gender.

00:35:32.140 The language is, is, is, is, you know, they always take the path of least resistance. I mean,

00:35:37.500 this is a man who admitted, admitted to, to presiding over an ongoing genocide and then

00:35:45.500 nothing happened and he didn't expect to have any consequences. He was just, yeah, all right,

00:35:49.260 fine. It's, I, I just think that it's, it's so performative, the whole government. And I think

00:35:57.980 it drags the good ministers in, in his cabinet down, uh, which is why I would want a new leader.

00:36:05.340 But again, who is it? I mean, it's okay. In the commercial break, our producer Andre got my ear

00:36:12.380 and was saying, is there really no one that can pull it back from the brain can point it out that

00:36:17.100 something you had said earlier that in 2014 or 2013, when she took over, Kathleen Wynne inherited

00:36:23.740 an Ontario liberal party that had been in power close to a decade and was looking rough and it was

00:36:31.420 a minority government. She turned around and got a majority government. Now, partly that was due to

00:36:39.260 the ineptitude of the people running Tim Hudak's campaign. Uh, they announced the policy to fire a

00:36:44.700 100,000 civil servants. I was about to say, was that the firing 100,000 civil servants election?

00:36:48.540 Yeah. Or was it the chain gangs election? That was the previous one. So, um, you know, sometimes

00:36:54.140 it's your, your opposition. Is there anybody that you see that could turn things around? I, I don't

00:37:00.220 think. What's Kathleen Wynne up to? No, I'm joking. I don't think Anita Anand, who's also been floated,

00:37:05.740 is someone who's got that retail politics. Well, that's it. If, if, if, if there's, if there's a Wynne

00:37:11.180 analogy, waiting in, waiting in the wings somewhere, she's a, she or he is a very, very good campaigner,

00:37:17.980 first and foremost. The people we've been talking about are, are, are not so far as we know. Um,

00:37:26.460 I mean, I, I, I, I am struggling here, uh, to think of anyone in the current

00:37:31.260 liberal caucus who has that sort of, uh, ability and who isn't also tied in people's minds to Trudeau.

00:37:43.900 Like who the, you know, they see Seamus or Reagan would be a silly idea, but you know,

00:37:48.300 you look at him and people see Justin Trudeau, I think, um, man, there might be someone out there. 0.99

00:37:54.620 Uh, Pierre Polyev is not going to do anything as stupid as Tim Hudak did. I don't think, but 0.99

00:38:04.700 he's got two years to step in it and, and politicians often do and politicians often do.

00:38:10.700 Yeah. Let me ask you about Polyev. Uh, you said earlier that you didn't think you would do that.

00:38:17.020 Well, I'm not sure if you said you, you weren't a fan of this, but I'll say that now.

00:38:21.180 No, you're not a fan. I, I, I, I haven't been in the past. I mean, I associate with him, you know,

00:38:27.740 when I think of him and I think certain people of a certain age, uh, think of him as that 20

00:38:32.860 something pit bull and I have some comments who would say anything, uh, you know, whatever the

00:38:40.140 most ridiculous talking point they wanted to put out there, they would have Pierre Polyev deliver and

00:38:44.460 he would do it with gusto. And, and it just, he just rubbed me the wrong way as an ultra partisan. 0.93

00:38:51.020 Um, person. I think now he, uh, he talks differently. Um, he chews apples while he talks.

00:38:59.260 He chews apple. I mean, that was a remarkably effective now, obviously liberals saw that and

00:39:04.140 seethed with hatred, but I mean, as someone who has not been a fan of him like that, I was like,

00:39:10.060 see, that's a natural unscripted, uh, yeah, it's, it's combative, but rightfully combative.

00:39:19.420 Well, the, the journalist showed up and was asking them loaded questions that I, you and

00:39:25.340 I have been in the business for a long time. I don't know about you, but I've asked dumb

00:39:29.500 questions. My editors have sent me with, and I learned quickly not to do that. I remember

00:39:33.500 Lucien Bouchard, Quebec premier making me feel an inch tall because I asked a ridiculous loaded 0.75

00:39:40.140 question that my editor had sent. And I said, I'm never doing that again. I'm going to learn

00:39:45.340 this guy. He's experienced. I think he is the editor. Oh yeah. Yeah. He's the sort

00:39:50.140 of sole proprietor, I think almost of this, uh, and was just asking the most loaded questions.

00:39:54.860 So yeah, of course, rightfully combative. Yeah. And, and it's not the first time, um,

00:39:59.740 that Polly have his face that so sort of like, well, given that, you know, given that you're

00:40:03.980 like Donald Trump, what do you think was just like, there's nobody in Canadian politics.

00:40:10.860 Very few people in American politics or, or anything like Donald Trump. Um,

00:40:15.340 um, yeah, I, I think he has impressed me just with being able to take it, finding another register,

00:40:22.780 I think just sounding more serious. He's clearly, you know, it doesn't matter. Uh, uh, what I think,

00:40:31.020 I live in Toronto center. Um, I, but I think, you know, he's with me both and our votes, our votes

00:40:36.780 don't count for a whole lot, right? He's certainly, um, I mean, the numbers of, uh, younger voters

00:40:43.660 supporting him still, every time I see it just boggles, it doesn't boggle my mind. I understand

00:40:49.340 completely. He's talking about housing and that's the number one issue for, um, for younger Canadians,

00:40:55.660 but it's, it's boggling liberals minds clearly that, that this is, that this is working, but I think it's,

00:41:03.020 it's, it's, it's, it's impressive because it's especially impressive because he, he had so many

00:41:07.260 negatives baked in. Like if you looked at, I can't remember who did this polling, but there was 1.00

00:41:12.860 someone compared like how many people had firm opinions about Aaron O'Toole when he took over

00:41:19.580 and Andrew Scheer, when he took over and Stephen Harper, when he took over and here, I've had was

00:41:24.780 far more known than any of them were at the time that he took over the party and far more negatively

00:41:31.660 known. And he's, he's worked, uh, hard to, to switch that. And it's, it's clearly worked. People may not

00:41:40.460 love him, but they're clearly willing to vote for him. And that's all that matters.

00:41:44.620 Well, let, let me give you some numbers because one of the things that we kept hearing was women 1.00

00:41:48.860 especially don't like. That's another one. Yeah. Right now there's Leger poll that I mentioned

00:41:53.180 earlier that has them at 40% nationally and leading in every single region except Quebec, um,

00:42:02.620 and leading handily in every single region except Quebec. Well, 36% of women say they would vote for,

00:42:11.980 uh, Pierre Polyev and the conservatives compared to 27% for Trudeau and the liberals and 21% for

00:42:19.740 the NDP. Awesome. Poor NDP. 18 to 34. The liberals are in third. It's 38% for the conservatives, 26%

00:42:29.180 for the NDP, 21% for the liberals. And, uh, the numbers don't get any better for the Trudeau liberals.

00:42:37.580 Um, you know, they're, they're down to their core support of, uh, of women 55 plus. Yeah. Retired civil servants,

00:42:45.420 you know, Alice who used to work at the hospital and, uh, Kim, the, uh, retired teacher. That's, 0.96

00:42:51.260 that's their voting base at this point. Well, they had a, they had a, they put an ad on Twitter,

00:42:55.260 I think last week where it was sort of, it was, it was going after Stephen Harper for, uh, for raising

00:43:03.500 the retirement age. And it's like, we'll, and they're like, we'll always have your back because

00:43:07.500 we lowered it. And it's like, but everyone, that's what was a dumb thing to do. Like Stephen 0.84

00:43:12.380 Harper took a bullet for future governments in doing that. Right. It was, it was a politically

00:43:19.020 unpopular thing to do, but a smart thing to do. And then the liberals undid it. Now they're trying

00:43:23.820 to boast about it. Well, as you say, if you're, if, if you're 62, uh, and you're looking to retire,

00:43:31.100 which is sort of the core base, the liberals core base now, that's good news. But what are other

00:43:37.100 people saying? I mean, young people look at that. They know they're not retiring at 65.

00:43:41.660 Uh, I mean, they just don't seem to know they seem over 50 and I don't see myself retiring.

00:43:46.940 No, indeed. Yeah. And it's like, I mean, there's, there's always people joke. It's become a joke,

00:43:52.140 right? Like how liberals think that they have communications problems, right? There was,

00:43:57.020 it becomes sort of a running joke. Like, no, you don't have communications problems. You have

00:44:01.100 governing problems, but they also have communications problems. Like they can't keep,

00:44:06.140 it's kind of the point where they can't keep a story straight. Like with this, with this climate,

00:44:09.660 with the carbon tax announcement, you had, if you look, if you look at a Goody Hutchings

00:44:15.660 Twitter account, this is the minister for rural economic development. You'll see, she's got one

00:44:20.540 tweet and it sort of says, um, we're, you know, raising, we're, we're making life easier for people

00:44:26.300 nationwide. This isn't a regional announcement. And then the tweet one below

00:44:30.780 says we're making life more affordable in Atlantic Canada with this announcement,

00:44:34.780 which everyone knows exactly what they're doing, but you're not supposed to say it out loud.

00:44:38.860 I mean, they just, I don't know. Like it almost looks sometimes like they've given up.

00:44:43.980 So do you think Canadians are willing to, I mean, right now the polls say, yeah,

00:44:50.060 they would back the conservatives, but as we've discussed, election could be as much as two years

00:44:55.500 away. Um, and the liberals are turning now and they're attacking them and saying, oh, uh, these

00:45:02.940 guys will cut or on Fran say the other day, uh, one of the ministers was jump, jump, jump. She said in

00:45:09.340 the, uh, in the house of commons, you've got them going after the fact that probably have this saying,

00:45:15.420 common sense conservatives. And they're saying, well, we saw what happened when there were

00:45:19.660 common sense conservatives in Ontario. You had Walker did. No, that was, you know,

00:45:23.820 two guys that drank a lot on a Friday afternoon and didn't do their job.

00:45:26.700 Also, it was 25 years ago. I mean, or longer, no longer. Like, like who, I mean, I'm picturing

00:45:33.260 a 28 year old voter saying like, who the hell's Mike Harris? Like, why are you talking about this?

00:45:39.020 Who's Stephen Harper for that matter for some of these voters? I mean, they, they just, yeah. Like,

00:45:44.140 like that stuff. I mean, that's just, you know, that's old time liberal religion, right? You just

00:45:48.460 show a picture of Mike Harris and everyone's like, Whoa, where do I vote? Where do I vote? Um,

00:45:56.220 yeah. Do these boogeymen work though with, with abortion? Well, they have worked, but, but will they

00:46:01.820 work this time? I mean, you look at their, uh, their latest move on the gun ban issue. They said on

00:46:08.860 Yeah. Well, there's another example of them. Yeah.

00:46:10.780 May 1st, 2020, they announced they're going to ban all these guns and they'll develop a buyback

00:46:15.180 program. It's, you know, as we record today, it's November 2nd, 2023. They haven't bought back a

00:46:22.860 single gun. They don't have a plan to buy back any guns because they don't know how to do it. Yeah.

00:46:27.740 And they've extended the exemption until October 30th, 2025. So five and a half years after they said

00:46:36.140 these guns are too dangerous to exist, we must, you know, confiscate them. Yeah.

00:46:41.020 The announcement is the policy. Again, they're still going to be in the basements and gun safes

00:46:44.780 of your neighbors. And, and I mean, I think, I mean, probably that was interesting, right?

00:46:49.820 Because every now and again, you see them try to sort of, or you see liberals. I'm not, I'm not sure

00:46:54.700 about the liberal. I'm trying to think if I've seen the liberal party go after him as sort of a

00:46:59.980 social conservative because he really isn't. No, like that's the problem, right? I mean,

00:47:05.740 Andrew Scheer was probably the most socially conservative, outwardly socially conservative

00:47:09.980 leader we've seen in federal politics recently since stock day. This is stock with it. Yeah,

00:47:16.220 that's true. Um, like, I, I just, I don't think there's anything there. Like if, if, you know,

00:47:23.580 he gave a, uh, uh, a really interesting interview, it was in French, not by accident, uh, about how he

00:47:30.300 changed his mind on same sex marriage. Um, but I mean, who can't, who's voting on that? Exactly. 0.97

00:47:36.780 It's done. It's, it's, it's a thing that like, um, and, and there's nobody voting for the conservatives

00:47:45.180 to have them reverse same sex marriage. If, if, if that's what you're voting on, you haven't voted for

00:47:51.100 the conservatives in 20 years or you're a glutton for punishment, which frankly, a lot of Canadian

00:47:55.660 social conservatives seem to be, um, in terms of supporting the conservatives and they never get

00:48:01.820 anything. I think that the most that they would say about Stephen Harper is he didn't make things worse.

00:48:08.860 Yeah. Well, and that's not, I mean, you know, that's part of the reason people vote conservative

00:48:13.260 is to just stop, you know, uh, a conservative government might be seen not to have done that

00:48:20.620 many things, but that's kind of part of being conservative is conserving, uh, the good things

00:48:27.420 you have and, and not messing around with them. Um, so Polly, Polly, does, does he keep going or does

00:48:37.660 he step in it? It's, it's, it's tough, right? Two years trying to maintain that, uh,

00:48:45.980 uh, trying to maintain where he's at. I don't think I, I seem to have a really good read on,

00:48:56.380 on what people care about and the, the things that are working for them, especially housing are not

00:49:03.580 going to get any better in the next two years. They're going to get worse. I mean, you look at

00:49:08.060 the number of housing starts we need to solve the problem versus the number of, and the housing

00:49:12.700 starts going down. I mean, it's, it's, it's talk to the developer, brutal talk to the developers,

00:49:19.500 especially the ones getting beaten up as, um, uh, you know, just, uh, jealous or, uh, greedy, um,

00:49:26.700 kleptocrats in Ontario. They'll tell you it's the, uh, the, the interest rates are, are killing the

00:49:32.940 ability of people to buy the ability of them to build. Um, and so you keep blaming that back on

00:49:39.020 Justin Trudeau. I, I would say that if, uh, Trudeau's numbers were better, I think he would

00:49:44.940 have tried to go to the polls this fall, engineer his own defeat, come up with a reason to call an

00:49:50.700 election. But if the numbers keep looking like this, I don't, uh, you know, I think you'll try

00:49:55.420 and drag it out, uh, you know, uh, until he's forced to go to an election because there's no upside at

00:50:01.820 the moment. Well, yeah. I mean, I, I can't imagine the party would be too happy with them calling

00:50:06.540 election right now. I mean, you're in the twenties, buddy. Yeah. Like what? Um, and

00:50:14.940 yeah, I don't know. I mean, it's, it's going to be, I just, I don't know why, I don't know why he

00:50:21.660 wants to be, I mean, I guess what, why does anyone want to be prime minister? They're ambitious.

00:50:25.900 They have, but I mean, he's been prime minister for eight years and, and he's just spinning his wheels.

00:50:31.580 He can walk away at this point and say, I had a good run. He did have a good run. And I mean,

00:50:37.740 I don't know why, you know, I'm not going to bring up his family into it, but I mean, you know,

00:50:43.500 it must be pretty, pretty exhausting getting beaten up day after day after day in the press

00:50:49.980 and you've got other things to worry about in your life. Um, but I don't know. I mean, I, I, I can't

00:50:56.380 put myself in the, in the, in the mind of a prime minister because God knows the things I would

00:51:02.140 have had to do to get there. Well, Chris, thanks for coming in. Thank you. Great first, uh, appearance

00:51:09.820 on full comment. I hope the, uh, the audience liked it. They can let us know. They can drop us a line

00:51:14.380 and, uh, and argue with us in the comment section, but, uh, please everyone, if you enjoyed the conversation,

00:51:19.580 make sure you're, you're sharing this full comment is a post media podcast. My name is Brian Lilly,

00:51:24.460 your host. This episode was produced by Andre crew with theme music by Bryce Hall. Kevin Libin

00:51:30.140 is the executive producer. You can subscribe to full comment on Apple podcast, Google, Spotify,

00:51:35.500 Amazon music, et cetera. You can listen through the app or your Alexa enabled devices. And of course,

00:51:40.700 you can help us out by giving us a rating or leaving a review. Thanks for listening until next time. I'm Brian Lilly.

00:51:49.580 So,

00:51:50.780 yeah,

00:51:52.540 yeah,

00:51:54.700 yeah,

00:51:55.580 yeah,

00:52:00.200 yeah.

00:52:04.740 Yeah,

00:52:05.620 yeah.

00:52:07.740 Yeah,

00:52:09.780 yeah,

00:52:09.900 yeah,

Full Comment - November 06, 2023

Driven into the ditch by Trudeau, Liberals have no clear way out

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