Full Comment - Full Comment with Anthony Furey： The Transformation of Sex and Love in the Time of COVID

00:00:00.000 Hey everyone, thanks for joining us for the latest installment of Full Comment with Anthony

00:00:06.620 Fury. Throughout the pandemic, there has been great focus on the disruption to businesses,

00:00:11.140 to kids, because of school closures, to mental health issues. Yes, all very important issues,

00:00:15.480 but today we're taking a look at something different. Dating, relationships, love, sex,

00:00:21.620 and more, all during the pandemic. If you've been happily married throughout, hopefully you've just

00:00:26.180 found renewed closeness. But what if you broke up during lockdowns? What if you were searching for

00:00:31.060 that significant other? What if going to strip clubs was what you did to relax on weekends? Well,

00:00:35.940 today we're joined by three different guests to break down these issues. We've got a relationship

00:00:39.820 and sex columnist, a young woman who's going to tell us all about her dating escapades,

00:00:43.700 and the owner of a strip club who has been fighting for his business and his employees.

00:00:50.420 What's it like to break up during the pandemic, go on dates, and then settle down with a new squeeze?

00:00:54.940 We're joined now by Danielle from Toronto, a young woman who has just had that experience

00:00:59.020 during the pandemic. She joins us now to tell us her story. Danielle, thanks for joining us.

00:01:03.580 Thanks for having me. I'm excited.

00:01:05.260 You know, I was saying earlier, I am in a situation where I've been in a marriage for a number of years,

00:01:09.240 and that's just been the same. And the main logistical challenge for me that has changed is

00:01:12.840 having the small children, you know, at home, not school, that sort of life disruption. You know,

00:01:18.260 it's all relative to different people. There are other people, though, who are in situations where

00:01:22.400 they're in the dating world or in your situation. You had a breakup during the pandemic. Tell us about that.

00:01:28.640 I did. I did. I was seeing someone for about a year and a half. And to be perfectly honest,

00:01:34.680 he wasn't the one. And I think a lot of those underlying issues kind of exacerbated as the

00:01:43.060 pandemic arose. And we broke up in April ish of 2020.

00:01:49.300 Wow, April 2020. So that was first lockdown, pretty tight lockdown. There was still a lot

00:01:53.920 we didn't know about the pandemic, you know, who actually catches it? How bad is it going to be for

00:01:57.600 us and so forth? What were you thinking at that time? You found yourself newly single.

00:02:01.400 Did you go? Well, I'd like to start meeting some people because I'm single right now. Or you thought,

00:02:06.420 nah, I don't know, this virus thing, not too sure. We're going to hold on for a bit.

00:02:10.760 No, I have been surprisingly conservative through the pandemic. I am a very extroverted person. But

00:02:20.920 at the very beginning, you know, partner or not, I had no desire to be out among people. You know,

00:02:27.460 we didn't know what was going on. I was definitely of the camp that was still sanitizing my groceries

00:02:31.980 when they came in the house. So that coupled with, you know, coming out of a year and a half breakup,

00:02:36.980 I took a little bit of breathing room, but also a little bit of, you know, social distance.

00:02:42.800 Right. So eventually, when you jump back into the pool, then the dating pool,

00:02:46.020 what did you do first? Was it was it sort of online dating? You were just chatting with people on the

00:02:50.100 phone? Or you did some zoom meetings and so forth? Tell me how that unfolded.

00:02:53.960 So the first person I dated after the breakup, I think it would have been like June ish was a

00:03:01.660 friend of a friend. We just started kind of talking on Facebook Messenger. I can't remember

00:03:06.700 what the topic of conversation was. But we started talking. And we started hanging out. And suffice it

00:03:12.760 to say that three months later, it did not go well, it did not work out. And then after that,

00:03:18.360 I approached the online dating pool. So when you do first meet a person, I mean, right now,

00:03:24.120 we're, of course, told, you know, don't see anybody who's not in your household or what have

00:03:27.440 you in the stay six feet apart, and so forth. When you jumped into the first date mix, the first

00:03:31.820 in person date situation with people, how did you handle that? Did you say, okay, we're going to do

00:03:36.420 an outdoor walk, we're going to do park bench, I know you're referring to the summer. So places were

00:03:40.460 open, patios and some indoor dining establishments. What was the pandemic calculation you made?

00:03:45.480 I mean, so in my dating experience, it's been a lot of, you know, texting beforehand, you know,

00:03:53.560 obviously being a millennial. But then after kind of breaking through that, and we're like, okay,

00:03:58.240 this person is, you know, not a serial killer, and they're normal. Let's meet up for an outdoor

00:04:03.600 coffee or a walk. And I think this at this time, it was it was very, it started to become clear to me

00:04:12.280 that everyone's thresholds and tolerance for risk were very, very different. You know,

00:04:16.940 we would meet up and some people would say, Oh, you should come over to my house. That's not

00:04:20.580 happening. The first I remember the day the province announced we hit 700, which just feels

00:04:29.000 like halcyon days now. But at the time, 700 was a big number. And I was walking towards meeting

00:04:35.300 someone for a first date. And I was like, I can't back out now. I'm walking to meet him. And at coffee,

00:04:40.180 he, he, you know, took the liberty of putting his hand on my lower back, which was did not go over

00:04:45.660 well, let me tell you. And what was that a thing that you know, in the past, had there been a positive

00:04:51.460 connection going on and reading the cues, you'd be like, Okay, well, that's okay. You know, there's

00:04:54.940 some people who say, Okay, yes, we can't have the kiss or even more on the first date and so forth.

00:04:59.720 But you've decided COVID and not happening.

00:05:03.420 I think it's really dependent on each person's relationship. I've learned so much more about

00:05:08.720 consent through COVID, surprisingly, and you know, not just sexual consent. But I think the the

00:05:15.740 pandemic consent or the social distance consent has entered so much more into the conversation.

00:05:20.780 And so you get to put these barriers up a little bit. After that situation, I began to ask, you know,

00:05:28.220 in the initial texting phase of a relationship, you know, what what are your pandemic or what are your

00:05:36.280 what is your risk tolerance like? And actually, the person that I'm with now? And we had a phone

00:05:44.760 call, you know, we had several hour long phone calls before, before meeting in person for the

00:05:49.660 first time.

00:05:50.480 So would you say it was important to you that you guys were on the same page with pandemic

00:05:53.720 rules? You wanted someone who who who took the same sort of level of caution as you did?

00:05:58.240 Absolutely. And even just to the level of like, you know, don't hug me without asking me don't,

00:06:05.960 you know, reach out and touch me don't take your mask off. Until we've we've established that this

00:06:11.320 is okay between us. And, you know, as a woman, I think there is a bad habit that we've developed at

00:06:21.160 at really putting aside our comfort in favor of making other people feel okay. But in in when it

00:06:28.480 came to, you know, I could actually get sick, then I became a lot more stringent about, you know,

00:06:34.020 you have to respect my boundaries.

00:06:35.880 And would you say just from from being in the dating pool, and then speaking to your friends,

00:06:39.080 whether they were, you know, male or female, or, you know, whoever they were in pursuit of,

00:06:43.320 out there sort of out in the dating pool, would you say that you were more conservative than average

00:06:49.000 that you kind of represent the average? Where would you place your perspective?

00:06:53.560 That is so tough to say, you know, because you're so indicative of your bubble and your group of

00:06:59.340 friends. In my group, I would say I'm about the average. But over the course of the last few months,

00:07:06.200 as I talked to people, I realized I'm definitely more on the conservative end of the spectrum.

00:07:10.300 Just quite surprising. I never considered myself to be that kind of person.

00:07:13.680 I mean, we hear stories for sure that one of the things that the police are doing is breaking up

00:07:17.540 large indoor parties, basically nightclubs that are still going on against the rules,

00:07:22.060 these sort of underground clubs and so forth. So I imagine also in the dating world,

00:07:25.460 there's people who are totally throwing caution to the wind and doing, you know,

00:07:28.620 whatever is advised against during the first date. I mean, what sort of stuff are you kind of seeing

00:07:33.740 and hearing out there from, you know, what other people are doing?

00:07:37.800 I mean, from one end of the spectrum, this is awful. I got a message from someone

00:07:43.540 recently inviting me for group sex, which first of all is sexual harassment, by the way. 0.99

00:07:50.040 But second of all, who is having group sex in a pandemic? Who is having multiple partners 0.98

00:07:56.000 in a pandemic? Because this is, yeah, I can't even wrap my head around that one on multiple levels.

00:08:02.700 I guess from the reports of various nightclub gatherings and so forth. I mean,

00:08:08.000 yeah, the large gatherings are happening a lot out there, which is the focus of some of

00:08:12.140 what the police are doing and so forth. Danielle, when you eventually did settle down with the

00:08:17.020 person, tell me how that experience went. I take it all of those steps that you wanted to follow

00:08:21.640 that this person was on the same page for. Yeah, exactly. I mean, right off the bat,

00:08:27.420 there were a large number of people who I matched with online who had no interest in connecting over

00:08:32.980 the phone or a Zoom date for the first time. Like they just were like, nope, not interested.

00:08:37.340 And that's fine. You know, clearly we put that out of the way.

00:08:40.860 They wanted to meet in the park for coffee right away or at the patio for beer kind of thing.

00:08:45.600 Exactly, exactly. I remember when patios first opened, I was getting all sorts of invitations.

00:08:51.280 Let's go for a beer. Let's grab a coffee. I'm like, the patio is just open. There is a long list of

00:08:56.560 people who I want to see before I meet a stranger. You know, I've got my best friends I haven't seen

00:09:01.920 in months. I'm not breaking my quarantine for you, some random from the internet. But my current

00:09:08.220 partner, we, you know, as I said, our first date was a phone call, not even a video date for a few

00:09:13.680 hours. Eventually, I think after like three, we ended up meeting on the last warm day of the year.

00:09:21.380 I don't know if you remember back in November, we had that like 18 degree day. Yeah.

00:09:25.160 And we had planned to meet up in the park, grab some beers from a local brewery and meet up in

00:09:31.600 the park. And that was great. You know, he brought a whole picnic set. He brought little individual

00:09:37.620 baggies of chips so that we didn't have to share. And I just felt so cared for. It was so considerate.

00:09:46.860 And that really was indicative of who he is as a person as well.

00:09:50.760 Did you feel it was a big deal when you guys ultimately decided, okay, we're going to have the

00:09:55.280 the indoor date, someone's going to come over to someone's house for dinner or what have you. And if

00:09:59.400 you're referring to end of November, I take it, all the places were already shut down pretty much

00:10:02.940 by that point, or someone's going to come over to watch a movie or whatever that was. Was that like a

00:10:06.880 was that like a big leap? I mean, it seems like almost with pandemic rules, that's comparable to,

00:10:10.460 you know, moving in with a person or something.

00:10:13.060 Yeah, definitely. It's a big, it's a big step, right? And a step that didn't exist before is am I going to let

00:10:19.160 this person into my bubble? I mean, I live alone, I've been working from home, I'm very isolated.

00:10:25.420 So I have the luxury of being able to say, you know, if I am in contact with this person,

00:10:30.440 I can still isolate two weeks and not see anyone else. My family still lives in Vancouver. So it's

00:10:35.720 not even like I'm seeing my family. Our second in person date, we actually ended up going to

00:10:41.780 the zoo, there was a some light show thing going on. But the logistics there were do I Uber

00:10:47.080 there and meet him? Or does he pick me up? You know, we're sitting in a car together

00:10:51.340 for like half an hour ish. And that was the risk that we and that was really the hurdle, right?

00:10:57.540 The you know, am I going to get into a car with this person because it's cold out? You know,

00:11:03.740 two days later, it was snowing with all the windows closed. So we're breathing the same air. And this

00:11:09.260 was all stuff that was going through my mind at the time.

00:11:12.260 But you did it, you didn't take the Uber, you took the drive with him.

00:11:14.700 Exactly. Yeah, he picked me up and it was an outdoor date. So even though we were in the car,

00:11:21.240 we had that outdoor. And then after that, our relationship progressed at a much quicker pace,

00:11:25.320 because we have gotten through that physical hurdle.

00:11:29.120 So it looks like that was the right decision taking the car trip up then all turned out well.

00:11:33.920 I think it would have turned out well, even if I had taken the Uber, to be honest, but

00:11:37.540 I'm very pleased with how it turned out. Yeah.

00:11:39.660 Danielle, thanks so much for joining us to tell us your story.

00:11:42.480 Thank you for having me.

00:11:43.480 Have a great day. Anytime.

00:11:45.960 Your local small business has been taking the hits this past year and a half. And that includes

00:11:49.840 not just clothing boutiques and restaurants, but strip clubs. They're small businesses too,

00:11:54.480 and their employees pay their taxes. And while they have bills to pay as well,

00:11:58.700 Rob Marciano knows this all too well as the manager of Club Pro, a strip club in Vaughn,

00:12:03.420 in the greater Toronto area, that's been doing all it can to stay afloat the past year and a half.

00:12:07.860 Rob joins us now. Hey, Rob, thanks for stopping by.

00:12:10.060 Hey, Anthony. How's it going?

00:12:12.560 It's going well, thanks. How's it going with you? Because right now, strip clubs remain closed in

00:12:17.600 Ontario. They have been for, well, tell me, for how long?

00:12:23.140 Effectively since March of 2020.

00:12:26.320 And, you know, we've been trying to make it work in any way possible.

00:12:34.280 So pretty much the entire time.

00:12:35.780 Pretty much. Like, we were able to open up our patios in June of 2020. And then towards the end of the summer,

00:12:46.380 there was the announcement from the province that they were closing all adult entertainment establishments.

00:12:53.900 And since then, we've been trying to operate as a restaurant and bar.

00:12:58.060 And, you know, we actually ended up doing something crazy. We opened up a driving range in our parking lot.

00:13:06.580 A driving range. So you have things set up there so people can hit some balls.

00:13:11.260 Yeah. So we've got five bays set up.

00:13:14.100 They're nets and, you know, real good quality turf.

00:13:18.320 I'm a golfer myself. So I like to, you know, we tried to create a place that would be something that I wouldn't mind going to hit balls at.

00:13:29.680 Is it, you know, in the mood and theme of a strip club? Like, do some of the dancers work there as the staff at the range?

00:13:36.460 Well, we're planning on doing something with our caddies.

00:13:41.040 And, you know, we're trying to help out our dancers and entertainers and bar and waitstaff and kitchen.

00:13:48.000 And we're trying to bring them back in any way, shape or form that we can.

00:13:52.560 What's been the response from your regular customers and clientele?

00:13:55.160 I mean, you guys are being shut down for quite some time now, getting on to a year and a half.

00:14:00.200 I mean, do you hear from people who say, I want to go back?

00:14:02.800 Or are there people who go, yes, we think strip clubs should be shut for pretty much longer than any other establishment?

00:14:07.680 So we have our core group of regulars who keep the lights on.

00:14:13.000 They really allowed for us to hold on to a lot of our staff while we were operating as a restaurant and bar.

00:14:20.340 I know a lot of our competitors in the Greater Toronto Area just didn't see the point of trying to make it like that.

00:14:27.620 But we have a very loyal following and, you know, they're kind of willing to support us in any way.

00:14:39.160 So, Rob, what's your perspective on what the rules around strip clubs in Ontario and Canada in general during COVID should be right now?

00:14:45.520 Because if you're talking about, you know, staying six feet apart and so forth, I mean, I understand the dancers, they do make a lot of their money giving dances and close contact and so forth.

00:14:54.640 So I know some public health officials say, uh-uh, we just can't do that at all.

00:14:58.000 How do you respond to that?

00:15:00.160 I mean, you know, the science says that that's the way that we should operate.

00:15:07.660 And I believe it.

00:15:10.020 I believe this staying six feet apart.

00:15:12.600 But what I didn't like what the province did was that, you know, there were some comments made by the mayor of Toronto saying that he believes that all strip clubs and adult entertainment venues should be closed.

00:15:24.680 And, you know, 24 hours later, the province kind of laid the hammer down.

00:15:31.080 They said, hey, you guys are closing.

00:15:34.140 Like, there wasn't any opportunity for us to course correct, you know, implement any kind of new protocols.

00:15:43.480 I understand that they were worried about the contact tracing with people coming in and giving false names, false phone numbers.

00:15:51.540 But from the start, we had a policy in place saying, you know, we want your government-issued ID when you can come in.

00:15:59.120 Uh, so we, we knew who was coming in was who they said, said they were, but, you know, the, the province didn't really give us an opportunity to, to implement those, those protocols that would have solved their, their issues.

00:16:14.780 So you feel that you could have been responsibly reopened at the same time restaurants and, you know, clothing stores, malls and other indoor facilities were reopened.

00:16:22.120 Absolutely. And I mean, the lap dances are an issue, of course, that's fine.

00:16:27.980 But what about the stage shows? Uh, you know, they're more than six feet apart.

00:16:32.240 Uh, we wouldn't, we would have had to upgrade our, our sanitizing processes, but, uh, I didn't see an issue with that.

00:16:41.540 Like if a guy wanted to come in and, and see a lovely lady on stage, like why would, wouldn't he be able to?

00:16:49.060 And Rob, how have your employees, your wait staff, the dancers, how have they been responding to the pandemic?

00:16:53.460 I guess they're eligible, of course, for the government support and so forth, but, uh, are they, are they eager to get back to work?

00:16:59.020 Or if people just said, Oh, forget it. You know, I'm out of this sector. I'm, you know, I'm done with it.

00:17:02.900 I mean, what's the general, uh, general feeling right now?

00:17:06.020 Well, we have a lot of loyal staff that have been with us for, you know, 10, 15, 20 years, um, bartenders, kitchen, kitchen staff managers.

00:17:17.680 Um, so they're, they're going to be coming back, but it's hard for them, especially the people who have mortgages, kids, right?

00:17:27.620 Trying to survive off of serve alone is, is nearly impossible.

00:17:31.220 And like, we've been trying to do everything in our power to bring them back, uh, whether it was from our patio.

00:17:39.260 Then we opened up a, uh, a virtual restaurant that we tried to keep our kitchen staff, uh, employed.

00:17:47.180 Um, but then it just got to the point where we weren't able to, to pay everybody.

00:17:52.680 And then we had to shut down the, the virtual restaurant as well.

00:17:57.320 And then that's when our team decided, you know what, golf probably won't be closed anytime soon.

00:18:04.260 So let's do something with, with golf.

00:18:07.760 And as sure enough, like, uh, our, our driving range in the parking lot, that was our proverbial, uh, middle finger.

00:18:17.680 And then they, uh, then they made going outside illegal.

00:18:21.240 Right.

00:18:22.340 Rob, do you think that when the rules say strip clubs can reopen, do you think that the customers

00:18:26.320 are going to come back?

00:18:27.200 Because I imagine there are some people who say, I want them reopened right now, but there

00:18:30.040 are other people, uh, who may be frequented strip clubs who go, I don't know.

00:18:33.380 I don't feel good about, you know, the dancing, having the private dances right now and so forth.

00:18:37.340 So I'm still going to hold back for, you know, a number of months or what have you.

00:18:40.460 Uh, you know, we are going to lose some, some customers.

00:18:45.380 Like we can definitely see that, um, whether it's people who have vulnerable family members,

00:18:52.320 you know, they don't want to have that on their conscience coming here, potentially contracting

00:18:58.880 something and then, and then bringing it back to family members.

00:19:02.440 Um, but at the same time, like we are going to gain some people who are just starving for

00:19:08.520 some attention.

00:19:09.240 Uh, and you know what, it's, it's, it's a time that we need to innovate.

00:19:13.760 We need to get creative and, um, put out a, put out a better product, put out a better

00:19:20.700 venue for people to want to come.

00:19:23.480 Rob, I know the number of strip clubs in the greater Toronto area, and I imagine this is

00:19:27.020 the same all across Canada and other, uh, major urban centers.

00:19:30.320 The number has decreased in recent years, in recent decades, it's just not the same industry

00:19:34.700 it once was.

00:19:35.820 What do you think the pandemic has meant for your sector moving forward?

00:19:40.260 Uh, well, there, this is going to accelerate the closure of a lot of these, you know, already

00:19:48.620 struggling businesses.

00:19:50.340 Uh, we were very fortunate that the place was run correctly.

00:19:54.480 So there are some savings.

00:19:56.860 Um, you know, we weren't, we weren't reliant on, you know, coming back full tilt as soon

00:20:04.960 as possible.

00:20:05.540 Like we can kind of get back to the drawing board and then aim correctly and fire.

00:20:13.340 Rob Marciano, you're the manager of club pro in Vaughn in the greater Toronto area.

00:20:16.840 Best of luck to you.

00:20:17.880 And thanks for joining us.

00:20:19.540 Thanks Anthony.

00:20:20.260 Today's episode is a racy one, relationships, dating, and sex during the pandemic, during

00:20:26.860 lockdown.

00:20:27.300 Our guest today, thankfully has all the insights, all the answers on these issues.

00:20:30.860 Simone Padgett is a syndicated columnist with Post Media who covers every aspect of this

00:20:35.280 topic in her writing.

00:20:36.880 Hey Simone, welcome to the program. 1.00

00:20:38.460 Hi, thanks for having me.

00:20:40.020 March, 2020 hits.

00:20:41.740 Canada goes into lockdown.

00:20:43.040 Obviously most other countries in the world do as well.

00:20:45.120 And at that time, I'm sure there were many people who were, uh, casually dating a couple

00:20:50.060 people planning, Hey, let's go out for dinner the next week and so forth.

00:20:53.200 They had their online dating profiles.

00:20:54.900 They were ready to get out and, uh, and live the single life or to perhaps meet their life

00:20:59.180 partner, uh, at their very next date.

00:21:01.620 What happened at that very next moment?

00:21:04.200 I mean, what, what, what was, what was the sense of people who were dating when that first

00:21:09.040 happened?

00:21:09.320 Um, like from what I've heard from friends, like I, well, I'll tell you a bit, like what

00:21:14.640 happened with me.

00:21:15.400 I actually like right before the pandemic, um, I went on a sex themed cruise as a press

00:21:23.580 trip.

00:21:24.440 Um, I was on a Caribbean cruise for a week.

00:21:27.440 Um, it was, um, the temptation cruise and it's a topless optional cruise.

00:21:34.440 Um, it's, you know, there's sex workshops, there's like a playroom where couples can go

00:21:41.460 in and have like, have sex in a sort of semi-public space.

00:21:45.440 Like it was a very like, you know, different environment, um, within like, I got back from

00:21:51.940 that, um, I guess at the end of February and I actually got really sick.

00:21:59.120 Um, they, I thought maybe I had COVID.

00:22:01.420 I didn't, um, so I was kind of like sick for, um, a couple of weeks there.

00:22:06.840 Um, and then, then the pandemic hit.

00:22:09.680 So, uh, I didn't, I kind of went from like, like crazy observing, like these crazy sort

00:22:16.140 of like sexual, like adventures to like full on lockdown.

00:22:20.480 Um, so I wasn't really dating anyone at the time and I kind of went into hibernation until

00:22:25.640 kind of the summer.

00:22:26.380 Um, I think like everyone's had different experiences.

00:22:29.940 I know, um, a lot of single friends who have continued to date and talk to people throughout

00:22:37.300 the pandemic.

00:22:38.520 Um, I think at, from what I've heard, um, a lot of people are having more, um, they're

00:22:47.220 having more conversations.

00:22:48.640 They're talking more.

00:22:50.000 They're getting to know people more before they actually meet up, um, which I don't think

00:22:56.220 is a bad thing, especially given like what we've talked about with like Me Too and, um,

00:23:02.900 actually giving like the chance for you to like suss out a person, get to know them like

00:23:07.860 over FaceTime or like Zoom dates, um, and see if you actually, you know, connect with

00:23:14.320 them before you take that step to meet up.

00:23:16.800 Um, I also know that could be a good thing moving forward, like to keep that post pandemic.

00:23:23.440 Yeah, definitely.

00:23:24.360 And, um, I wrote about recently in one of my columns that, um, the majority of, uh, I

00:23:31.120 believe it was Hinge, the dating site Hinge, um, are actually going to keep doing video dates

00:23:38.080 even after it's like safe to go out and meet in person.

00:23:42.580 Um, because there's a couple of reasons, like it does give you that sort of like, just

00:23:47.460 sort of initial like vibe check to see like, if you, do you want to go out in a public place

00:23:53.040 with this person?

00:23:54.080 Um, do you have anything to like, is there any kind of spark there?

00:23:58.300 Um, can you have a conversation?

00:24:00.340 Um, and also like, it's, it's less of a risk for health reasons, but also like it's cheaper.

00:24:08.000 Like you could have a glass of wine at home and talk to someone on your computer or your

00:24:12.280 phone.

00:24:13.020 Um, isn't that so unromantic though to say, you know, bring your own bottle of wine and

00:24:18.900 sit on the screen.

00:24:20.740 It isn't, it isn't like people are actually saying because they're in their homes and

00:24:26.540 relaxed, they're actually having better conversations.

00:24:29.140 Um, and I have done a little bit of like video dating, like in the summer, um, last summer

00:24:34.820 I got quite into doing like zoom dating and zoom speed dating.

00:24:38.840 And I did make a connection with someone and we kind of had this, like, we, we actually

00:24:43.200 never ended up meeting up, but we had this sort of like two month long phone and like

00:24:48.380 zoom relationship.

00:24:50.300 Um, and it actually was kind of, it was a kind of a nice throwback to the days, like

00:24:56.540 of being, I don't know if you remember like being like a teenager or like in your early

00:25:00.680 twenties and having these like long phone conversations with like the person you were dating or like

00:25:06.660 the person you had a crush on and you kind of end up talking more and it was really kind

00:25:11.840 of, yeah, it was kind of nice in that sense.

00:25:14.100 Um, so I think that is happening, but also people are going out to meet people, um, in

00:25:21.140 public, um, they're doing like socially distant, you know, going for a walk or like a date to

00:25:28.540 like the dog park, um, and you know, or maybe going to like an outdoor dining experience, like

00:25:37.220 depending on how safe they feel, um, which is nice too.

00:25:41.240 But I think, um, what's interesting is like how this ties into me too, is people are seem

00:25:47.300 to be more comfortable now having the conversations about like, Hey, so we're meeting up.

00:25:52.520 Like, are we going to wear masks?

00:25:54.160 Are we going to, you know, how are we going to like conversation?

00:25:58.860 It is.

00:25:59.580 It is.

00:25:59.920 And I think that's like kind of like a positive thing is like, maybe if the me too movement

00:26:04.400 hadn't happened, we wouldn't be able to have these, like, it would be a bit more difficult.

00:26:09.100 I mean, it's already a bit awkward, like to say, you know, ask the person ahead of time,

00:26:13.900 but when you put like health on the table, um, then, you know, it makes it.

00:26:19.840 Right.

00:26:19.940 You can say on the first date, you know, are you going to wear a mask?

00:26:22.220 But on the first date, it's a bit presumptuous to say who's bringing the condom.

00:26:26.280 Oh yeah, exactly.

00:26:28.000 Yeah.

00:26:28.300 But, um, and everyone should always bring the condoms.

00:26:33.060 Everyone should always have.

00:26:33.900 All right.

00:26:34.120 Good.

00:26:34.680 Um, someone, let me ask you about, about sort of volume of people in the dating pool.

00:26:40.100 Like I I'm sure back, you know, March, 2020, everyone was like, Oh, stay home.

00:26:44.000 Don't do anything.

00:26:44.860 And of course for two weeks or three weeks or whatnot, there was just the general fear about,

00:26:48.300 you know, what's going on.

00:26:49.220 But at a certain point people said, okay, you know, got to put my toe in the water again.

00:26:52.900 What, what was, what, what's your impression of what that was like?

00:26:56.660 I mean, was there a greater volume of people suddenly doing online dating?

00:27:01.280 Were there fewer people?

00:27:02.920 I mean, are there people who are just like, look, yes, I'm, I'm single.

00:27:06.380 I want to see people, but I'm out.

00:27:08.720 Can't do it right now.

00:27:09.520 What, what was, what was the general do I, or do I not response?

00:27:14.140 Um, so, I mean, it's, it's different for everyone.

00:27:16.840 Um, the stats that I've seen that have been sent to me show that dating like on apps and

00:27:23.600 stuff, like the volume has remained the same in some cases has actually gone up because

00:27:29.420 people are like at home, bored, looking to connect with people, looking to connect with

00:27:35.560 anyone, like have a new conversation.

00:27:37.720 So it actually hasn't gone down at all.

00:27:40.220 Um, as far as like people actually meeting up in person, like, I don't know, I haven't

00:27:45.640 seen any statistics about how many people are actually going from the apps to meeting in

00:27:52.520 person, um, myself, like I kind of have taken a step back and completely removed myself

00:28:00.420 from the apps.

00:28:02.680 And, um, just because like, I live with someone who is like in like a high risk category.

00:28:10.240 So for me, it just doesn't seem like for me, it just wasn't worth it.

00:28:14.340 So there's a lot to factor in, not just in terms of your own dating life, but then to your

00:28:18.380 point, how it's affecting others going about and meeting other people.

00:28:21.380 Um, yeah.

00:28:22.480 And I'm like, is it worth like me going on some date with some person I don't even know

00:28:26.720 to like potentially kill my family?

00:28:29.280 Like, no, definitely not for me.

00:28:32.600 Um, but I think now to like the people like me who've kind of taken a step back now that

00:28:37.980 like vaccines are starting to roll out slowly.

00:28:41.320 Um, there is going to be those people who kind of hibernated are going to have like a return

00:28:48.280 to dating.

00:28:49.580 Um, and that, that will be interesting, but like it hasn't slowed down at all.

00:28:54.880 Like it's been, the apps have been busy.

00:28:57.740 It's just like, I don't know what's happening like on the ground, like with people actually

00:29:01.320 meeting up.

00:29:01.880 I can only say like, I know some friends have been going on these kinds of socially distant

00:29:06.420 dates.

00:29:07.540 Um, well, you gotta think, you know, there's the hyper cautious people, but there are people

00:29:11.900 who are not cautious at all.

00:29:14.360 And I know there's not a lot of stats out about, you know, people doing stuff when they

00:29:19.000 really shouldn't be, but I can tell you, you go and search on all these different online

00:29:22.840 Kijiji places and I'm not looking to rat anyone out or get anyone charged here, but if you 0.98

00:29:27.540 want someone to come over to your house to, to give you a haircut or for instance, you

00:29:30.740 can find that there's a whole underground economy going on, uh, all across Canada right

00:29:35.360 now in the most locked down jurisdictions.

00:29:37.000 I've got to think there's similar things going on with the hanky panky.

00:29:41.240 Oh yeah, definitely.

00:29:42.280 Like, um, and it's kind of interesting cause it is also like coming out as like people

00:29:48.760 holding other people accountable.

00:29:51.580 Um, there's like, this is not related to like what I write about necessarily, but there is

00:29:56.260 like a popular Instagram account called, um, gaze over COVID and it's basically, um, it

00:30:02.540 was sort of spawned by like that accident that happened in Puerto Vallarta where there was

00:30:06.700 like a party boat, um, full of guys, um, that ended up sinking and it kind of brought

00:30:12.180 up this like idea that there's still people out there, um, of all different sexual orientations,

00:30:17.460 having like sex parties and, um, partying and like hooking up.

00:30:22.860 Um, yeah.

00:30:24.060 And there's always going to be people who are like, are much more comfortable with risk.

00:30:27.480 And I guess the question is how does one move forward?

00:30:29.320 Because when, when lockdown restrictions are over and when the pandemic is more or less

00:30:33.420 behind us, I mean, there, there's going to be sort of lingering cautiousness among many

00:30:38.040 people.

00:30:38.460 I don't know what the percentage is, a sizable percentage of the population.

00:30:41.240 And then there's going to be those others who've always thrown caution to the wind anyway.

00:30:44.820 And you're all going to be on the same dating apps or having the same potential to meet each

00:30:48.800 other at, uh, at various events and so forth.

00:30:50.760 And it'll be curious, uh, to see how those sort of social cues are navigated.

00:30:54.980 Um, yeah, and I've noticed, um, this is like more information that was sent to me from dating

00:31:01.880 apps was, um, a lot of people are listing their like vaccination status in their profile

00:31:09.520 now.

00:31:10.420 Um, I think that should be like a mandatory tick box on the dating thing.

00:31:15.140 Like, you know, you know, say vaccinated or not click kind of thing.

00:31:18.400 Um, I don't, I don't know, because like, I think it's dangerous to do that because there

00:31:25.800 are some people who can't get vaccinated for like other extenuating health circumstances.

00:31:31.960 And I think you don't want to create this like sort of two tier, um, system where people

00:31:40.000 who aren't able to get vaccinated either due to access or because of a health issue are like

00:31:45.620 discriminated against.

00:31:46.780 Um, but I do think it means like, you have to have that conversation with the people you're

00:31:52.420 dating.

00:31:52.680 Like, I want to know if I go out with someone like, Hey, are you vaccinated or how do you

00:31:59.700 feel about vaccines?

00:32:00.620 Like, are you willing to like get a vaccine?

00:32:02.780 Like what, how have you behaved during the pandemic?

00:32:06.420 Like, I want to know, like, are they, have they been kind of, you know, like most people

00:32:11.440 kind of laying low or are they the kind of person who's like going and doing stuff that

00:32:16.340 could potentially put other people in danger?

00:32:18.500 Simone Padgett, this has been such a fantastic conversation.

00:32:21.480 Thank you so much for joining us for your syndicated calmness with Postmedia covering

00:32:24.540 everything to the relationships, dating and sex.

00:32:27.500 Have a great day.

00:32:28.780 Yeah, you too.

00:32:30.660 Full Comment is a postmedia podcast.

00:32:32.520 I'm Anthony Fury.

00:32:33.480 This episode was produced by Andre Prude with theme music by Bryce Hall.

00:32:37.260 Kevin Limon is the executive producer.

00:32:39.200 You can subscribe to Full Comment on Apple Podcasts, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your

00:32:43.560 podcasts.

00:32:44.360 You can help us by giving us a rating or a review and by telling your friends about us.

00:32:48.000 Thanks for listening.

Full Comment - June 07, 2021

Full Comment with Anthony Furey： The Transformation of Sex and Love in the Time of COVID

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