Full Comment - Harry and Meghan are the Royal Kardashians

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00:01:12.740 The Royal Family.

00:01:20.900 Are they imploding?

00:01:22.120 It certainly seems like it.

00:01:23.300 Hello, I'm Brian Lilly, guest host for the Full Comment podcast for this week.

00:01:27.760 We've all been watching the circus, the soap opera that is the Royal Family for the last

00:01:32.560 few years.

00:01:33.460 Last few decades, depending on how old you are.

00:01:35.600 The last little while, though, even if you don't care for the story, it's become impossible

00:01:40.600 to escape, especially with the antics of Harry and Meghan.

00:01:45.040 H&M, as they're now called.

00:01:47.320 There was the Oprah interview, the Netflix specials, the interviews with Anderson Cooper

00:01:51.280 on 60 Minutes, the interview with Tom Bradby on ITV in the UK, and now the book Spare, where

00:01:58.120 we got to learn new words like todger, as we figured out what frostbite on a todger meant.

00:02:06.100 What's the endgame here?

00:02:07.340 What are Harry and Meghan playing at?

00:02:10.120 Well, before we get to our guest, who I know will have all the answers, all the insights,

00:02:14.100 just a reminder that you can subscribe to this podcast, and please do.

00:02:17.760 Make sure that you're subscribing, whether it's on Apple Podcasts, Google Play Podcasts,

00:02:23.500 Spotify, Amazon, anywhere you can get your podcasts.

00:02:26.120 Please subscribe, leave a comment, leave a like.

00:02:28.780 It always helps us out.

00:02:31.440 But the Royal Family, how do we analyze what they're doing?

00:02:36.360 What is this endgame for Meghan and Harry?

00:02:38.780 Well, Kinsey Schofield is the woman behind the website to diefor.com.

00:02:43.700 That's D-I, diefor.com. 0.61

00:02:46.140 She's long been a fan, an analyst, a commentator on all things Royal, and Princess Diana, and

00:02:52.460 she joins me from Los Angeles.

00:02:54.160 Kinsey, thank you so much for the time.

00:02:56.120 Thank you.

00:02:56.740 Yeah, it's been a crazy week for royal watchers and royal commentators.

00:03:00.660 Harry has spilled the beans.

00:03:02.820 I'm sure that spilling the tea is more appropriate, but his is nasty, so I'm going to say beans,

00:03:08.840 not tea.

00:03:09.300 Look, I grew up with immigrant parents from Glasgow, and I'd never heard the word todger

00:03:16.560 before reading the excerpts of Harry's book where he described getting frostbite on his

00:03:22.620 genitals.

00:03:23.560 Had you ever heard of the word todger before this book leak?

00:03:26.760 I hadn't, but that's not even the weirdest part for me.

00:03:29.720 The weirdest part is describing using Elizabeth Arden to try to heal it, and it being the product

00:03:36.980 that his mother put on her lips, and feeling her presence in the room as he put it on her

00:03:42.500 daughter.

00:03:42.680 Who approved that?

00:03:45.120 You know, at least 45 people read that, heard that before it was released to the public,

00:03:50.460 and nobody put their hand up and said, wait, I don't know how this is going to go over in

00:03:54.360 real life.

00:03:54.880 Oh, man, I hadn't read that part, but I haven't read the book, and I'm torn on whether I will.

00:04:02.420 Kinsey, I'd like to get your sense of what's going on with the royal family, but I'm going

00:04:09.060 to play a bit of devil's advocate here, because the popular thing to do is to pile on Harry

00:04:13.560 and Meghan.

00:04:14.180 No, it's not.

00:04:15.140 Oh, my gosh, I have been doing this for a year, and I cannot tell you how many people

00:04:18.600 have called me racist, how many people have told me.

00:04:22.180 That is just a new development.

00:04:24.940 The Megyn Kellys of the world, the Megyn McCains of the world, all of a sudden, they jumped

00:04:29.540 on this bandwagon.

00:04:30.500 It's been me, Brian, taking the hit for the last year.

00:04:33.440 It has been me.

00:04:35.160 But I can feel some sympathy for Harry, which is odd for me.

00:04:38.760 I'll tell you why.

00:04:39.440 As I mentioned, immigrant parents from Glasgow and Scotland, where the royal family is not

00:04:45.600 overly popular, the family has an Irish Catholic background, makes us even less inclined 1.00

00:04:50.880 to be lovers of the royal family.

00:04:52.800 There were no tea towels with the queen, the queen's face on it, in my household growing

00:04:57.840 up.

00:04:59.340 But I appreciate the royal family, and being in Canada with our form of government, I

00:05:05.360 appreciate the stability that brings with a constitutional monarchy and a parliamentary

00:05:09.560 democracy.

00:05:10.280 And so I'm a reluctant fan of the royal family that way.

00:05:14.800 This fight, though, is making me see things in a different light, and I can feel some sympathy

00:05:20.460 for Harry when he says he's done what he's done to protect his family.

00:05:25.260 How are you viewing it as someone who is a royal commentator, royal watcher, also a woman

00:05:32.960 and an American?

00:05:33.700 Well, yeah, I mean, my country went to war, so we didn't have to deal with them. 0.99

00:05:38.840 So I...

00:05:39.600 But you're all obsessed.

00:05:40.880 Yeah, but we love them.

00:05:43.020 Yes, I think that protecting your family is one thing, but for over a year, I said, oh,

00:05:50.900 my goodness, almost two years, I said, don't worry about this book.

00:05:55.900 I really think this book is going to be a self-help book, a way for him to elevate himself,

00:06:01.020 to become a thought leader.

00:06:04.080 He runs with the likes, or previously ran with the likes of Justin Trudeau, Barack Obama,

00:06:10.440 our former president.

00:06:12.160 He could have continued to utilize those contacts, create brand recognition in spaces like mental

00:06:24.280 health or serving vets once they're released from duty.

00:06:29.720 He really had a great opportunity to be a true leader.

00:06:36.380 And so for a long time, I said, don't worry about this book.

00:06:39.900 This isn't going to be a tell-all.

00:06:41.140 He wouldn't do that.

00:06:41.940 This is going to be a man that is going to use this as a platform to build his brand and

00:06:47.320 to get paid millions of dollars, to talk in a room full of stuffy suits.

00:06:52.480 He completely surprised me with this book.

00:06:54.880 Why go into the gutter?

00:06:57.640 Why tear down your family?

00:07:00.640 That's not going to protect your family.

00:07:03.540 What you're, in fact, doing is stirring the pot, which is the exact opposite of protecting

00:07:08.680 your family.

00:07:10.320 You know, I understand the context is different than what's been initially reported with the

00:07:15.920 Taliban kills.

00:07:16.920 But why even go there?

00:07:18.220 What's the point?

00:07:20.420 I just feel like he could have done so much, and I'm disappointed by the route that he's

00:07:25.100 taken.

00:07:26.120 I mean, to spend three years complaining about Meghan's 18 working months as a senior member

00:07:31.620 of the royal family, I think most people would say, get over it.

00:07:35.580 That is a context I haven't heard it put in before.

00:07:39.460 She spent now more time complaining about the job than the time she had the job. 0.84

00:07:45.000 Mm-hmm.

00:07:46.060 Harry, too.

00:07:47.060 I mean, and it's just, I'm sorry that they had a difficult experience over there, but

00:07:51.780 you've moved to America thanks to the kindness and selflessness of other people.

00:07:58.860 Tyler Perry putting you on his private jet, flying you over to his home, allowing you to

00:08:03.800 live there for months, providing you with security for all those months.

00:08:08.960 You've moved into a bathroom or a house with 16 bathrooms.

00:08:12.240 Sometimes you live in one of the richest parts of the state of California near people that

00:08:18.640 like you, Ellen, Oprah, all of these celebrities.

00:08:22.600 Your life is blessed.

00:08:24.300 Let's just move on.

00:08:25.560 Let's talk about how great your life is in America.

00:08:29.200 Kinsey, you said that this book went a different way than you expected.

00:08:33.720 It didn't go the self-help direction.

00:08:36.180 And I think that could have done Harry all kinds of favors if he had gone that route.

00:08:43.280 But he went tell-all.

00:08:45.340 And in my view, this book takes tell-all to the next level.

00:08:49.720 It's, you know, he complains a lot.

00:08:52.520 Harry complains a lot about the Daily Mail and the tabloid press in the UK.

00:08:57.380 This, the details that I've seen are the type of details I would expect if a writer from

00:09:02.200 the Daily Mail was asked, slap together a quick bio of Harry, we need something quick

00:09:06.640 and trashy. 0.94

00:09:07.740 He went the trashy route. 0.96

00:09:09.100 He took tell-all to a new level. 0.74

00:09:11.440 Did the level of detail, especially on the personal side, on sometimes the gross side,

00:09:17.480 did it surprise you?

00:09:19.480 Absolutely.

00:09:20.300 And I'll tell you why.

00:09:21.720 Well, first of all, he's, you know, as you know, he's suing the Daily Mail.

00:09:25.420 He's very against the Daily Mail.

00:09:27.420 So that's funny that you would use that as a referral, but specifically Thomas Markle

00:09:34.560 is criticized in the Netflix documentary.

00:09:37.860 Thomas is Meghan's father.

00:09:39.800 She grew up, she spent a lot of her youth with Thomas Markle, actually, and you don't

00:09:44.900 really see that throughout the Netflix documentary.

00:09:47.500 But Harry and Meghan criticized Thomas for monetizing his relationship with his daughter

00:09:52.700 and her relationship with the royal family.

00:09:55.920 And I have a hard time hearing that when Harry is monetizing his relationship with the royal

00:10:02.480 family, as well as Meghan monetizing her relationship with the royal family.

00:10:05.780 It all just seems like hypocrisy.

00:10:08.480 And I know people make comparisons to Princess Diana and her book with Andrew Morton, Diana,

00:10:14.860 Her True Story.

00:10:15.980 As you'll remember at the time, that was written in secret.

00:10:18.700 We had no idea Diana was involved in the, no idea Diana was involved in that book until

00:10:25.820 after her death when Andrew Morton finally admitted to it.

00:10:30.020 And I think that the objectives were different there.

00:10:32.840 Diana was looking for a way out. 0.98

00:10:35.000 This was a step towards that.

00:10:36.920 Harry has found his way out.

00:10:39.320 He's free.

00:10:40.060 And he's continuing down this destructive path.

00:10:42.840 You said in a recent television interview that you feel Harry in particular, and we'll talk

00:10:52.180 about the other royals soon.

00:10:53.200 I don't want to make this all about H&M, but you said you feel that Harry is making the

00:10:59.300 same mistakes as his mother.

00:11:01.820 What do you mean by that?

00:11:02.900 Well, I mean, if you'll remember, it seems like he's got her playbook in front of him.

00:11:10.460 It seems like he is just checking off a list of things that she executed.

00:11:15.660 When it comes to the Oprah interview, you could throw that back to Martin Bashir.

00:11:19.700 When it comes to this book, you could compare that to Andrew Morton.

00:11:23.800 And I just think he's checking off this list of things going, well, mommy did it.

00:11:28.160 But the reality is at the time of Diana's death, she was not a very popular character.

00:11:33.800 She was the lowest she had been when it came to the YouGov scores, those types of things.

00:11:40.460 At the time of her death, she was chasing after a man who had a drug problem.

00:11:45.320 And I love Diana.

00:11:46.220 I've built an entire brand around her.

00:11:48.200 But Dodie was a known drug user. 0.99

00:11:51.120 He was engaged to another woman.

00:11:53.200 I don't know if you remember that humiliating press conference that that very famous L.A.-based

00:12:00.460 attorney, Gloria Allred, did with Dodie's fiancee at the time crying, saying that Diana had

00:12:06.540 broken up her and Dodie's relationship.

00:12:08.640 And she ironically had a ring that looked just like Diana's famous engagement ring from Prince

00:12:14.100 Charles.

00:12:15.120 But, you know, she was not the loved character that she is today.

00:12:20.040 Diana became this martyr and became this angelic figure to us upon her last breath.

00:12:27.100 And I do feel like Harry and Meghan look at Diana and define her by this angelic role that

00:12:34.040 the whole world sees.

00:12:35.180 And Diana was a great human who was sincere in her hurt and sincere in her compassion.

00:12:42.180 And because I felt like she felt like she lacked love in her life, she gave her all to strangers

00:12:47.680 and gave her all to people in need.

00:12:49.500 I do think that that was sincere.

00:12:51.780 But the reality is she died trying to make Hasnick Khan jealous by publicly dating Dodie

00:12:59.060 Fayyad.

00:13:00.280 And I think that Harry needs to really look into her history and understand that the decisions

00:13:07.480 she made at the time were not necessarily popular.

00:13:11.180 And her decisions had consequences.

00:13:15.060 And unfortunately, one of those consequences towards the end of her life was her death.

00:13:23.160 The claim is often made that it's Harry and Meghan that are starting this fight with the royal family.

00:13:31.160 That if they were just quiet, this would go away.

00:13:34.960 So let me flip that around and say, whether it's the media in the UK or the media around

00:13:44.000 the world, they can't get enough of Harry and Meghan.

00:13:46.140 And the royal family continues to leak stories about them.

00:13:50.840 I don't believe for a second that that's just a claim made by Harry and Meghan have been in

00:13:56.340 the media business too long.

00:13:58.800 You recognize what a leak is.

00:14:01.520 And these are definite leaks.

00:14:05.780 So how does this fighting stop then?

00:14:10.200 If Harry and Meghan stop tomorrow, do you actually think that there would stop being stories on

00:14:16.420 them, often stories that are facilitated by the institution, as they always called it in

00:14:23.400 the Netflix special?

00:14:24.960 Well, first I'd say, if you're realistic about the situation, the palace continues to protect

00:14:32.000 Harry and Meghan.

00:14:33.140 Because if they wanted to hurt Harry and Meghan, they would release the bully report that they've

00:14:38.440 had several third parties come in and investigate Meghan's behavior towards staff. 1.00

00:14:43.740 And the palace decided they wanted no more drama so that they locked those reports up because

00:14:51.200 they just wanted to stop the conversation.

00:14:53.260 They don't like the tit for tat that he said, she said that happens when you respond or when

00:14:59.180 you, I mean, that's the never complain, never explain definition right there. 0.75

00:15:04.840 Just shut up and hopefully it goes away.

00:15:08.420 There are obviously, you know, I've had several people ask me straight forward this week, do palace 0.89

00:15:16.820 officials contact you and tell you things?

00:15:19.320 Because I broke the story almost a year ago that Harry wanted to happen.

00:15:25.180 Harry and Meghan wanted to work half in, half out.

00:15:27.240 That was with Tom Quinn on my podcast.

00:15:30.400 But I can honestly say no one's come to me and asked me to leak something.

00:15:36.840 I really only know of a few people that I could consider sources.

00:15:43.680 And one is somebody that works in the vicinity and hears things that, but it's gossip on top

00:15:51.060 of gossip on top of gossip.

00:15:52.360 There's no way that William is telling this person, I want you to go leak a story about

00:15:56.600 avocados.

00:15:57.240 And then another is like a hairdresser.

00:15:59.520 So, so I, while I understand what you're saying, and while I'm sure that there have

00:16:06.360 been leaks, I don't really know what the reality is that they're coming fast and furious right

00:16:14.800 now.

00:16:15.180 I mean, there's no relationship between Harry and the Royal family.

00:16:18.340 So there's nothing to leak at this point in time, but the idea that Camilla was leaking

00:16:24.700 stories, which he, he really, he, he points the finger at a lot.

00:16:28.660 I know that Camilla leaked stories to Diana in the night about Diana in the nineties.

00:16:34.140 There was actually a reporter that came out and admitted that she gave him a few stories

00:16:38.580 about Diana in the nineties.

00:16:39.960 And then all of a sudden he swiftly changed his tune and said, Oh, I don't know what you're

00:16:44.340 talking about.

00:16:44.840 I never had a relationship with her.

00:16:47.040 Um, so I know that that happened, but after Diana's death, Camilla was vilified.

00:16:55.240 She was terrified.

00:16:57.140 She hated the negative press coverage and feared it immensely.

00:17:00.940 And so, um, Prince Charles had somebody come in named Mark Boland who did a complete rebrand

00:17:08.640 of Camilla.

00:17:09.700 I mean, there are stories about people throwing bread at Camilla in a grocery store.

00:17:13.160 Charles denies that that ever happened, but they've lived long enough that, you know,

00:17:17.640 maybe there is some truth to it, but Charles brought in a man named Mark Boland who wanted

00:17:22.640 to do the complete rebrand of Camilla.

00:17:25.000 And I do believe that they probably shared some negative stories about Prince Harry as

00:17:31.260 a teenager to elevate Camilla's brand.

00:17:33.860 But boy, did he give them plenty to work with.

00:17:36.500 I don't know.

00:17:38.060 I really don't know if, if Charles and Camilla are sitting around sharing negative stories

00:17:43.280 about their son.

00:17:44.040 Now, I would hope we'd be past that.

00:17:45.980 I would hope that we would be beyond something like that.

00:17:49.880 Um, but I don't know at this point in time, there's no relationship there.

00:17:54.320 So stories right now are not coming out about Harry and Meghan because the palace are leaking

00:17:59.040 them.

00:17:59.340 They, there is no communication.

00:18:02.380 If Harry and Meghan want to contact any member of the royal family today, they have to go

00:18:07.360 through a law firm.

00:18:08.620 The royal family won't even take their calls.

00:18:11.140 Wow.

00:18:11.880 That is a relationship breakdown.

00:18:14.020 Uh, speaking with Kinsey Schofield, we're going to take a quick break, come back with

00:18:18.960 more, including, uh, Kinsey, one thing that I want to, to get into is could this have

00:18:25.080 been avoided?

00:18:26.080 There's an old saying in politics, keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

00:18:30.620 And a lot of work goes into keeping enemies inside the tent and politics.

00:18:35.040 Royal family is very much about politics.

00:18:36.640 So when we come back, I want to ask you about that.

00:18:41.680 Kinsey, we were talking previously about all the fights.

00:18:45.560 We were talking about the, how Prince Harry is revealed so much, how you mentioned that

00:18:51.480 he can't even speak to his family unless he goes through a law firm.

00:18:56.940 Could this have been avoided?

00:18:59.940 You know, in politics, it's better to keep somebody who's upset, who's part of your team,

00:19:04.880 but is upset with you inside the tent rather than have them outside the tent shooting inwards.

00:19:11.020 I think that that's a good point.

00:19:13.820 Um, I do think that everybody's disappointed by this situation because no matter what,

00:19:20.640 you started out loving Harry and Meghan.

00:19:22.460 I know I did.

00:19:23.400 I loved Harry and Meghan.

00:19:25.280 Um, I, and, uh, and they could have done a lot for the Royal family, but there is a stubbornness

00:19:33.000 within the men of the Windsor household.

00:19:35.440 There is a temper within the men of the Windsor household and, you know, there's this fight

00:19:42.880 that Harry describes within the book where Willie shoves him down, breaks his necklace,

00:19:48.000 and then Harry proceeds to break a dog bowl when he falls on top of it.

00:19:52.720 Um, that to me sounds like a man that believes what he's saying and that, that's a passionate

00:19:59.240 fight.

00:19:59.740 And the fight was about employees of Kensington palace going the proper HR route, reporting

00:20:10.000 something to a manager who reported something to a senior manager.

00:20:13.720 This inevitably trinkles up to Prince William and William approached Harry at his home and

00:20:20.860 said, we have got to talk about the way that Meghan is behaving. 0.99

00:20:24.360 We've lost several staff members.

00:20:26.380 They're accusing her of bullying.

00:20:28.100 I think she's rude.

00:20:29.620 I think she's abrasive.

00:20:31.220 And this is something we have to deal with.

00:20:33.460 Now, Harry rejects William's claim, says it's the employees that are the problem.

00:20:38.960 But then in Harry's book, he goes on to describe working in their offices and having staff members

00:20:44.460 crying at their desk.

00:20:45.820 That's a toxic work environment, Harry.

00:20:48.060 I know you've never had a job.

00:20:50.180 I know you haven't worked the drive-thru at McDonald's, but you're not supposed to cry

00:20:55.220 regularly at your desk if you are going to work every day.

00:20:59.040 That is not a typical Tuesday for most people.

00:21:01.880 Of course, it has been in some of the newsrooms I've worked in, but that's another story.

00:21:06.620 But yeah, so the idea that Harry and William got into this nasty fight, to me, it's William

00:21:14.480 is very passionate about this.

00:21:16.280 He believes what his employees are saying.

00:21:18.260 And Harry's the one that's not going to give an inch, that doesn't say, okay, well, maybe

00:21:24.140 we'll hire an assistant that Meghan communicates that she's comfortable with, and then that

00:21:29.660 assistant communicates everything to everybody else.

00:21:32.380 There were solutions.

00:21:34.040 Harry just refused to acknowledge the problem.

00:21:36.740 And I firmly believe that the problem was the way that Meghan communicated.

00:21:41.300 And it has nothing to do with race.

00:21:43.160 It has everything to do with the fact that Meghan is a self-made American woman who probably 1.00

00:21:48.820 is a little abrasive in her communication. 0.99

00:21:51.620 Americans, we work around the clock.

00:21:54.060 So yes, you are probably going to get an email at 2 a.m. or 5 a.m. because we wake up and

00:21:59.080 think about something and we shoot that email over.

00:22:01.700 I think that it's just a culture clash at the end of the day.

00:22:07.960 Does the royal family survive this?

00:22:11.620 Oh, yeah.

00:22:12.320 Are you kidding me?

00:22:13.700 Yes.

00:22:14.080 Are you kidding me?

00:22:15.280 If the royal family was going to go down, it would have been that love triangle, Charles,

00:22:21.200 Camilla, and Diana.

00:22:22.520 The difference between this situation and that is that, I mean, I think the majority of the

00:22:27.620 people, after all is said and done, are siding with the royal family because they can't believe

00:22:33.500 all of the dirty laundry that's been aired.

00:22:35.360 I mean, I'm looking at this thinking about Joey Buttafuoco.

00:22:39.020 This is giving very much tabloid vibes, right?

00:22:41.560 Like, Joey, what are the Lorena Bobbitt?

00:22:44.640 It's sending me back into the 80s and the 90s with all of this content that Harry's sharing

00:22:49.440 that's so unnecessary.

00:22:50.980 It does give you those flashes of old school tabloids that are so outrageous.

00:22:55.520 When you see the headlines at the grocery store in the aisle, they're so outrageous that you

00:22:59.620 go, this can't be true.

00:23:00.840 Oh, my God, you open it up.

00:23:02.060 And yes, Harry is talking about his peen.

00:23:04.980 So I think that this is something that they can overcome.

00:23:09.140 Absolutely.

00:23:09.580 The King Charles, his poll numbers went up immensely upon the death of Queen Elizabeth.

00:23:17.140 Camilla got a boost, too.

00:23:18.820 People are super excited for Prince William to inevitably become king one day.

00:23:24.400 They love Catherine, the Princess of Wales.

00:23:26.320 So I think that while Harry might have hurt the brand a little bit, he doesn't care.

00:23:33.540 His objective is to build a brand in America where the stuff he shared will only elevate

00:23:39.400 him.

00:23:39.800 Look at what the Kardashians have done for themselves with the sex tape.

00:23:43.860 Harry's got nothing on that.

00:23:45.040 Harry can share as much as he wants.

00:23:47.020 People are going to eat it up here.

00:23:48.240 People are going to love him.

00:23:50.260 But in the...

00:23:50.760 Is that the endgame, though?

00:23:52.220 You mentioned the Kardashians.

00:23:53.520 And I said off the top, we're trying to figure out what the endgame is for Meghan and Harry.

00:23:58.060 Is their goal to become just like the Kardashians, famous for being famous?

00:24:03.880 I don't know what you do after some of this, because I was really under the impression that

00:24:09.720 Meghan had political aspirations.

00:24:12.920 She was doing these virtual tours with Kamala Harris, Hillary Clinton, Stacey Abrams, which are

00:24:19.760 all high-profile Democrats here in the United States, female Democratic leaders. 0.99

00:24:24.920 I was under the impression that Meghan wanted to pursue politics. 0.97

00:24:29.120 But I don't know how you pursue politics with a husband that will talk so openly about, you

00:24:34.120 know, cocaine use and, you know, smoking dope outside of Tyler Perry's house while his baby and his

00:24:41.460 wife are sleeping inside.

00:24:43.060 I don't think that's a positive reflection on him or his family.

00:24:47.200 And I don't know if Americans would be excited to have that in the White House.

00:24:51.200 So I don't know if they're really...

00:24:53.520 I'd say looking at what's been released over the last month or two based on the Netflix

00:24:59.460 docuseries and the autobiography, how do you not pursue anything but entertainment?

00:25:06.440 I think you are limiting yourself to podcasts and producing content for Netflix.

00:25:10.360 I don't really think you can be taken seriously as a thought leader when not only the content

00:25:16.380 of the book, but he looks so vindictive and angry throughout the series of interviews he's

00:25:20.760 done.

00:25:22.020 I don't know.

00:25:23.060 You know, have you seen our prime minister?

00:25:25.540 He's done many of the things that you talk about and it's been reported and he keeps getting

00:25:31.380 elected.

00:25:32.040 So maybe Americans are different.

00:25:33.920 He looks like a Disney prince.

00:25:35.480 Maybe that's what his secret is.

00:25:37.220 It kind of does.

00:25:39.000 So in terms of popularity, the UK, very negative impressions of both Meghan and Harry.

00:25:47.780 I'm looking at the latest YouGov numbers.

00:25:51.160 69% have a very negative impression of Prince Harry.

00:25:56.040 17% a fairly negative.

00:25:58.980 Only 9% have any kind of positive view of him.

00:26:02.220 For Meghan, it's 73% very negative, 14% fairly negative, and just 8% have any kind of positive

00:26:10.500 view of them.

00:26:11.820 What's your sense of Meghan and Harry in the United States?

00:26:16.680 I know you said that it's starting great on people, but given the celebrity culture, does

00:26:24.040 their star continue to rise?

00:26:27.460 Well, I do know that when I worked with a polling company not too long ago to put just a comparison

00:26:37.820 together of William and Catherine and Meghan and Harry, and Kate was, I'd say, knocked it

00:26:46.680 out of the park for popularity here in the States.

00:26:49.000 So if we're just comparing the former royals, Harry and Meghan, to the current royals, I

00:26:54.460 do think that statistically, the royal family dominates over Harry and Meghan.

00:27:02.040 But Harry and Meghan, you know, they were smart.

00:27:05.320 They came over here and immediately started that victim narrative that the United States

00:27:09.800 just goes gaga over.

00:27:11.920 The Jessie Smollett, Amber Heard, you know, woe is me.

00:27:15.500 I think that that was a key strategy that Harry and Meghan used as quickly as they, you know,

00:27:22.880 settled down here in the States. 1.00

00:27:24.660 And there are people in America that are idiots and will gladly follow that, you know. 1.00

00:27:31.780 I think most people look at it and go, really, you live a life of privilege, Meghan. 1.00

00:27:38.080 I highly doubt that half of these things went on that you're saying.

00:27:42.660 I mean, they told us during the Oprah Winfrey interview that their child was denied security,

00:27:49.000 that their child was denied his rightful title because there was, you know, any percent of

00:27:55.660 black in him. 0.58

00:27:57.500 That was a lie. 0.98

00:27:58.860 That was a bold-faced lie.

00:28:00.760 Harry turns around and tells ITV, we never said they were racist.

00:28:04.220 OK, well, there's another lie because I just gave you the example.

00:28:06.860 But then he goes on to Anderson Cooper the same night, several hours later, and tells Anderson

00:28:13.320 Cooper that his family didn't get along with Meghan Markle because of stereotypes.

00:28:18.300 For instance, she's black, biracial. 1.00

00:28:20.280 So you're calling them racist again.

00:28:22.340 So obviously they're playing our countries against each other because of the narrative.

00:28:26.640 They know that the UK is offended when they say that there's racism there, so that they're

00:28:31.620 trying to shut that down.

00:28:32.780 But he forgets that the Internet exists and comes over to America and says, yeah, my family's

00:28:37.780 racist.

00:28:38.300 They're playing our countries against each other. 0.98

00:28:40.260 They're playing our news sources against each other.

00:28:44.740 Americans are afraid to criticize Harry and Meghan.

00:28:47.160 American media organizations are afraid to criticize Harry and Meghan because you're told

00:28:51.240 you're racist if you do that, because the UK is racist for criticizing them. 0.89

00:28:56.080 It's all very sick. 0.99

00:28:57.380 It's all very warped.

00:28:58.420 And I think it's all very planned.

00:28:59.940 And just before I get on to the next point, Newsweek did have a poll out at the beginning

00:29:06.740 of December around the time the Netflix special dropped.

00:29:10.420 And Meghan was liked by 43% of Americans, disliked by 20%, meaning the other remaining, what,

00:29:18.080 37% just don't know or care.

00:29:21.260 A little bit less popular than Kate, who's liked by 52%.

00:29:25.140 But, you know, 40% approval rating is not horrible.

00:29:28.440 It's in line with most presidents.

00:29:31.120 I'll just correct you right there really quickly, though.

00:29:33.700 Newsweek is one of the magazines that worked with Harry and Meghan, were very positive about

00:29:39.480 Harry and Meghan, and over the last few weeks have started to question Harry and Meghan.

00:29:44.980 Jack Royson, I believe, is the journalist over there who just ate everything up that they

00:29:50.820 said.

00:29:51.140 He reported some of those statistics that were not true about Meghan being bullied online,

00:29:57.240 that Twitter actually shut down and said, these statistics are not true.

00:30:01.980 And he's actually come around over the last few weeks, I'd say the last two weeks, and

00:30:07.020 started pointing out some of the inconsistencies within Harry and Meghan's stories, and has

00:30:13.180 said, you guys have got to change the narrative.

00:30:15.140 You've got to change your tune.

00:30:16.320 And you've got to look forward, because people are sick about hearing about the same old,

00:30:20.580 same old victimhood narrative.

00:30:22.380 So Variety, Newsweek, CNN, The Today Show, these are some of the outlets that have previously

00:30:28.820 been very glowing of the Sussexes here in the States that are actually starting to question

00:30:33.280 their motives over the last few weeks.

00:30:35.040 If, and I understand that, but, and I know you've pointed out that Jimmy Kimmel is even

00:30:41.020 making fun of him in skits, but if your goal is Kardashian-like celebrity, then that doesn't

00:30:47.700 really matter, because, well, it's more publicity.

00:30:51.700 I mean, Kim Kardashian's sex tape has never hurt her.

00:30:55.420 Some of the things that have happened to that family do not hurt them.

00:30:58.380 They just make more money.

00:31:01.200 Yeah, I mean, if that is their endgame, then yes, they're on a good track, right?

00:31:05.360 I'm sure they're giving each other high fives.

00:31:08.440 In terms of playing the media against each other, and as you pointed out, the internet,

00:31:14.200 yeah, that thing goes across the ocean, and you can see that they're saying one thing to

00:31:19.080 Tom Bradby, and one thing to Anderson Cooper, if you want.

00:31:22.000 It's kind of like in Canada, you know, we've got 25% of the country is French.

00:31:27.360 Politicians used to try and say one thing in English, one thing in French.

00:31:30.400 Well, guess what?

00:31:31.720 Some of us speak both languages.

00:31:33.220 Maybe not well, but there's also Google Translate now, and you can find these things out.

00:31:39.720 Harry has been incredibly, and Meghan, have been incredibly inconsistent in their comments,

00:31:46.740 and as you point out, playing one issue in the States versus another issue in the UK.

00:31:54.980 Do you think that he's really trying to push the narrative that the royal family is racist in America,

00:32:02.360 because that will get him sympathy in the US that he wouldn't get in the UK?

00:32:06.960 Yes.

00:32:07.720 I mean, short answer is yes.

00:32:09.440 I think that being victims has become a very lucrative brand for the Sussexes.

00:32:15.920 And, you know, when they originally left the royal family, ultimately, Americans wanted to protect them.

00:32:23.320 We were very protective of them, and we thought, no, come over here, we'll take care of you,

00:32:26.940 because we were so horrified by the death of his mother and because we felt like we grew up with him

00:32:32.060 and wanted to protect him and wanted to take care of him because we saw such a huge loss for him.

00:32:37.080 And that was devastating for us, too.

00:32:38.700 So I do think that they play each other when it comes to, or they play the press when it comes to racism.

00:32:49.060 And I just, what is the ultimate objective?

00:32:52.340 It's friends like Oprah.

00:32:53.520 It's friends like Tyler Perry.

00:32:54.840 It's friends like Gayle King that goes on CBS and says, we have receipts.

00:32:58.800 The royal family was racist.

00:33:00.560 They've made some high-profile friendships and contacts that do elevate them and elevate their brand.

00:33:06.960 And, you know, there's been no proof.

00:33:11.040 They've shown us no proof of the alleged royal racist that they now deny exists.

00:33:16.300 Just, if you have receipts, if you have any proof of it whatsoever, show us and we will defend you greatly.

00:33:23.520 But at this point in time, it just feels like it's trash for cash.

00:33:27.660 And your popularity soars and interest in you soars when there's another headline like this.

00:33:32.860 Harry specifically says to Anderson Cooper, at some point, silence is betrayal.

00:33:38.260 Well, if there's really not a racist within the royal family, then why did you spend two years not fighting that narrative?

00:33:44.520 You allowed that narrative to continue.

00:33:47.280 Yeah.

00:33:48.180 In one of the interviews, he said, it wasn't me that said that we're racist.

00:33:51.920 It was the media.

00:33:53.780 I know.

00:33:54.520 Yeah.

00:33:54.940 Like, what?

00:33:55.660 I mean, to say, and tell me if I'm wrong, but to tell us that a family member questioned your child's skin color, because of that child's skin color, you would not receive the title that is inherited, historically inherited, which, by the way, that was not true.

00:34:15.920 The only reason that William's children were princes and princesses was because the queen stepped in and did that specifically because William was the heir.

00:34:24.920 So that was, that's not how it typically goes.

00:34:27.540 Harry was not, his children were not automatically going to be princes and princesses until King Charles became king and ascended to the throne.

00:34:37.060 And then that's actually a choice now that Charles is going to make based on Harry and Meghan's activity and their actions.

00:34:43.860 But tell me if I'm wrong. 0.98

00:34:46.420 Your child is not going to be a prince because he's black. 1.00

00:34:49.940 Your child is not going to get security because he's black. 1.00

00:34:53.300 Also, we're worried about how black he's going to be. 0.99

00:34:56.840 That sounds pretty racist to me. 0.92

00:34:59.520 Yeah.

00:34:59.980 Yeah.

00:35:00.320 No, it definitely is.

00:35:01.740 Now, let me ask you about something that Harry raised several times in the Netflix documentary, that because of his wife's race and because of the composition of the Commonwealth,

00:35:13.860 that they, the royal family lost out on an opportunity to work with him and with Meghan to showcase her and say,

00:35:26.600 look, we've got somebody in the family who is more representative of the people that make up the Commonwealth.

00:35:32.920 Do you put any stock in that?

00:35:34.780 Or did the royal family miss that opportunity?

00:35:37.960 Or did Harry and Meghan poison that possibility with their actions?

00:35:43.540 I do think that they poison that possibility with their actions.

00:35:47.400 You know, we are, I know you, you, it sounds like you work in a newsroom.

00:35:52.320 You know, how great are we when we work together?

00:35:55.220 How great is it when there is good chemistry and there is teamwork and no one thinks that they are the star of the show,

00:36:01.480 but everyone is just trying to contribute as much as they can.

00:36:06.480 And I just think that that's where the disconnect was, that they weren't willing to be team players,

00:36:11.940 that they had their own agendas and that they, I don't know, they, they, they just seem to have their own agendas and want,

00:36:19.480 want their own thing.

00:36:20.640 And when they didn't get it, they became difficult and they be, and you know, they, there's, it's not one sided.

00:36:26.140 Harry and Meghan released, Harry and Meghan released stories too.

00:36:30.760 I'll give you an example.

00:36:32.060 Knowing that Meghan sent a wreath during Prince Philip's funeral.

00:36:35.620 Do you remember when that story leaked?

00:36:37.340 Even the, what the card said inside the card that hadn't, didn't even look open when it was on the screen.

00:36:43.120 Somebody released that Harry, that Harry and Meghan sent a wreath that Meghan specifically sent this wreath during Prince Philip's funeral.

00:36:49.120 Here's what's inside.

00:36:50.020 You know, there are arguments that this, the, the Megxit, which they claim was leaked by the palace.

00:36:58.600 Harry specifically says it was leaked by the palace.

00:37:01.300 There are arguments that that story was actually leaked by Meghan, that Harry and Meghan were planning on leaving the company or the country.

00:37:11.320 It is a bit of a company as well.

00:37:13.580 Yeah, the, the institution, the company, the country, that, that Meghan actually had her friends leak that story to Dan Wooten, who was working at the sun at the time and who actually is the one that, that broke that story.

00:37:26.980 There are rumors that Meghan's friends leaked that to Dan because Meghan wanted to scare the royal family into giving them everything they wanted.

00:37:36.080 So these leaks are not one sided.

00:37:39.000 Harry and Meghan are, are, were playing games behind the scenes too.

00:37:43.580 It's going to be a fascinating next little while.

00:37:48.060 Cause I don't think this story is going to stop Kinsey.

00:37:50.160 I think it's going to continue and we will continue to watch the headlines, continue to watch you and, and lap it all up while saying, we just want them to stop.

00:38:00.860 Yeah, help.

00:38:03.360 Thank you very much for the time today.

00:38:05.420 Thank you.

00:38:06.840 This has been a full comment.

00:38:08.760 It's a post media podcast.

00:38:10.540 My name is Brian Lilly guest host for this week.

00:38:13.200 This episode was produced by Andre Proulx with theme music by Bryce Hall.

00:38:17.460 Kevin Libin is the executive producer.

00:38:20.060 And do remember you can subscribe to full comment on Apple, Google, Spotify, Amazon, and more.

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00:38:28.700 And you can help us by giving us a rating or leaving a review.

00:38:33.360 And by the way, tell your friends about it, share it on social media until next time.

00:38:37.740 I'm Brian Lilly.

00:38:38.820 Thanks for listening.

Full Comment - January 16, 2023

Harry and Meghan are the Royal Kardashians

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