How Canada got on the wrong side in the war against Iran
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Summary
Life in the middle of a war zone: What is it like in Israel? We talk to two Canadians: Adam Zivo, a journalist and frequent contributor to the National Post, and Vivian Berkovich, a former ambassador for Canada to Israel.
Transcript
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When I found out my friend got a great deal on a wool coat from Winners,
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Like that woman over there with the designer jeans.
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For days, Donald Trump had been coy about whether he would strike Iran or continue to negotiate.
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On Saturday night or early Sunday morning in Tehran,
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Trump gave his definitive answer with the biggest use of bunker busters in history.
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A short time ago, the U.S. military carried out massive precision strikes on the three key nuclear facilities
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in the Iranian regime for Doe, Natanz, and Esfahan.
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Everybody heard those names for years as they built this horribly destructive enterprise.
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Our objective was the destruction of Iran's nuclear enrichment capacity and a stop to the nuclear threat posed by the world's number one state sponsor of terror.
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Hello, and welcome to the Full Comment Podcast.
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I'm Brian Lilly, your host, and this is the second time I've recorded the introduction to this edition of the podcast.
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In trying to have up-to-date discussions on what happens in a war zone, things can change quickly, and they did here.
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That Trump gave Iran 60 days to negotiate a deal, a deal they clearly didn't want, now looks like it might have been a ruse to allow Israel and the United States time to prepare for and carry out their actions.
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Iran is currently threatening retaliation, as they did after Israel struck, and that is what we wanted to discuss in this episode.
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What is life like in the middle of a war zone, specifically in Israel?
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We talked to two Canadians on Friday, Adam Zivo, a journalist and frequent contributor to National Post, and Vivian Berkovich, a former ambassador for Canada to Israel.
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But even before the American bombing on Saturday night, connecting with people in Israel was difficult due to Iran's ongoing bombing campaign.
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We had hoped to speak to Jonathan Conricus in this episode.
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He's a former spokesman for the IDF, still makes a lot of media appearances, but our ability to connect was cut off by he and his family having to take refuge in a bomb shelter.
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And our chat with Adam Zivo was delayed, as he had to go to a bomb shelter, while Vivian Berkovich spoke to us from her safe room during an attack.
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Life simply isn't normal, at least it's not something most Canadians have experienced, and that's where we wanted to start our conversation with Adam Zivo.
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Adam, I know you're used to war zones, you've been in and out of Ukraine over the past several years, but war is not something you grew up with in Toronto, in suburban Toronto.
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What has it been like the past week in Tel Aviv and then Jerusalem, as Israel and Iran have ramped things up?
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Well, I'll say that the first night was shocking and rather anxiety-inducing, although at the same time, no one was particularly surprised.
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Because in the days leading up to the attack, there were rumors that Israel was going to attack Iran, that had been reported in the international media.
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GPS wasn't working reliably in the South, which indicated that it was being jammed to a certain extent.
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And so when we all received that emergency message at 3 a.m., and the people in my building and the Airbnb that I was staying at, when we all gathered in the stairwell, we said, well, I guess this is it.
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This is what's happening now, and the world has changed.
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Now, the emergency alert that we received is different from the one that is normally given out.
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So most Israelis have an app on their phone where they receive a notification and some siren when there is an air raid siren.
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This was more like an amber alert that went out to every phone, regardless of what app they had.
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So that emergency system is used very sparringly, although it's been used a lot over the past two weeks or a week.
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But as a result, you know, everyone knew this was serious.
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And after one hour, we just left because nothing happened.
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And so the next morning, I went to go report on the streets of Tel Aviv, and there weren't that many pedestrians, which is understandable.
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And the few that were there were gathering supplies for their shelters, or they were carrying small pieces of luggage because they were relocating to smaller cities or towns, or they were walking their dogs because dogs always need to be walked.
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There was some fear that a large-scale Iranian drone attack was going to mess the city up because Tehran sent about 100 drones.
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To be frank, as someone who's been in Ukraine a lot, 100 drones is really nothing.
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And by the afternoon, people had begun to resume their normal life to a certain extent, and some of the people who I interviewed felt underwhelmed by Iran's response.
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But then, of course, that changed by that night.
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Well, and I would say I think it was Sunday night where I was watching American Cable News just checking in on what was happening before turning out the lights, and it was middle of the night in Israel, and the American networks cut back into live programming because of how many bombs were falling.
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The ballistic missiles that have been hitting, as noted, you've been in Ukraine, you've been around that war, and the drones are different.
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What about when Iran started to send in the ballistic missiles and they were getting through the various levels of defense?
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Well, so on Saturday night, that was when the first barrage of ballistic missiles came in.
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And I really want to emphasize that it could have been much worse.
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So Iran's original plan was to retaliate using about 1,000 ballistic missiles.
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However, that didn't happen because the Israelis very intelligently destroyed about one-third of Iran's ballistic missile launchers.
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And we went to the shelter, we came out, went to the shelter, we came out.
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The following day, we saw that some areas in the outskirts of Tel Aviv had been hit.
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But people didn't seem overly stressed because they really trusted that their bomb shelters would protect them.
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It is necessary to include them in any building that has been constructed, I believe, after the 1980s or 1990s.
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So as long as you follow the protocol and you go inside, you can be reasonably assured that you will be okay.
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They were, you know, running, exercising, playing volleyball.
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And they said, or at least the people I interviewed said, well, what else can we do?
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Because if we accept fear, if we accept panic, then that is conceding a victory to the Iranians, to the Islamic regime.
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And this time, there was a strike in the center of Tel Aviv.
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And that has never really happened before to this extent.
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In the morning, there was, it actually, I was 850 meters away.
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And it landed very close to the first Airbnb that I'd stayed in two, three weeks earlier.
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And very inconveniently, it destroyed the Airbnb that I was going to relocate to afterwards.
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But you're talking about, you know, checking in and out of Airbnbs in a war zone.
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And this is something which may seem insane to a Canadian who's never been in a war zone.
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And the best comparison that I can provide for the average Canadian here is imagine the
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April or May 2020 version of you explaining to the January 2020 version of you what COVID
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And the January version of you would say, that's crazy.
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And the April, May version of you would say, well, I have to go get groceries.
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When you've been talking to people on the street and you're, you know, reporting for
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various outlets, but also just on your social media platforms has been fantastic.
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Um, I remember you posting at one point about how, uh, the, the bombs coming from Tehran,
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uh, we're not going to stop, uh, pride activities in, um, in Tel Aviv.
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Tell me about that because, you know, we've got Fred Hahn from QP Ontario, uh, backing, uh,
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So the day that this attack occurred, so I guess like the day after the night that this
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occurred, uh, was supposed to be Tel Aviv pride.
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And I actually came to Israel to do a documentary on LGBTQ Israeli life.
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So when I heard the rumors that there was going to be attack on Iran, I was praying that it
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would come after I could get all of my footage.
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But anyways, um, this attack came because all public gatherings have been banned.
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You know, pride was canceled, uh, the gay bar, the missile dedicated gay bar in the city.
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There are other bars that are gay friendly, but it's like the one that's dedicated just
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Um, and an underappreciated and very idiosyncratic aspect of this war is that because there was
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Tel Aviv pride, you had all of these gay tourists who were out clubbing and at bars the night
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And so one person who I interviewed, uh, described going to get water at 4 30 AM, going to the
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grocery store, like 90 minutes after Iran had been struck and then realizing that the
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grocery store was filled with gay tourists who had clearly just left the clubs that were
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abruptly shut down and were wasted and like seemed to be high on MDMA or something.
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So, I mean, imagine that you're, you're, you know, you're going out for a party and then
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your, your night is interrupted because now there's a war with Iran and you have to rush
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Cause you know, it's chatted with Vivian Bercovici.
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She's in a different scenario, um, these days, she's not in Tel Aviv.
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She's got a safe room, um, inside her own home.
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So in the Airbnb that I was in, in Tel Aviv, before I came to Jerusalem, it was basically
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just a basement and the basement looked like it belonged in the film saw it's the kind of
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place where you could just imagine someone getting murdered, you know, covered in old paint
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There's not a lot of space, you know, you're kind of, you're sitting side by like shoulder
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And it's basically just a vault that is located in the basement and you stay inside.
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And how long have you had to stay in these places?
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Like, you know, half an hour to an hour and then you leave.
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Um, but in the shelter that is just down the street from where I, where I am right now,
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So it's a series of different rooms, all connected.
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Um, I I'm told some of them do not have facilities.
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And, you know, there was one time where I had to debate, do I, do I leave to use the
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Do I not, you know, thank God I had a modium, but, um, like I think, and, and, and one thing
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you have to also keep in mind is that there are buildings that have shelters.
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Once again, those are the newer ones and there are ones that don't.
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And if you don't have a shelter, like in the building that I'm in right now, you go
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to a public shelter, which is, you know, usually quite close.
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And then you end up meeting all sorts of different people and you end up connecting with them.
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So, uh, because you end up going to these shelters often and there's nothing else to
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do really, except to talk to the people around you.
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Cause there's no signal, cell phone signal inside, you end up making these interesting
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And, you know, on my end, my family's Serbian and I heard from my mom, how my aunt who went
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to the NATO bombings in the late nineties, she mentioned that, you know, you make no
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better friends than the people that you meet in the shelter.
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You know, it's a, it's a, you end up really making some interesting connections.
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I'm making a joke for people that don't know because I know Adam and, uh, you are an incredibly
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Um, so you're trying to get out and by the time this airs, you may be out.
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So the thing is, because I'm here as a reporter, now I've pivoted away from the gay stuff to
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covering the war, you know, I should be here for some period of time, but I also promised
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my fiance that we'd, you know, take a vacation together and he's stuck in Ukraine and we have
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a non-refundable, you know, cabin rental in early July.
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I booked a flight earlier today that would take me from Amman in Jordan to the Polish
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Ukrainian border that got canceled just about half an hour ago, uh, for, because of force
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majeure, which makes absolute sense, but there's an underlying sense of uncertainty because,
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okay, if this flight is canceled, well, does that mean you can, you can book a replacement
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Like as of now, there is so much confusion about, uh, how to get out of here and look the
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You can go and pay like 3000 us dollars and take a boat to Cyprus and fly from there, or
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you can cross into Egypt, but then you need military aircraft to get you out because otherwise
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And that is one of the most lawless areas in the world.
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And, you know, on my end, I'm not a fan of being kidnapped or beheaded or anything like
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I mean, look, I'm a social person, but I don't want to talk to my kidnapper.
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The alternative is to Jordan, but everyone's doing that.
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Uh, compare this to, um, where you are normally staying when you're in Ukraine, uh, safer,
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Uh, it's hard to tell because everything is in flux.
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I think that Ukraine is somewhat more dangerous because, uh, well, Israel has prepared for
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So because there are, there are safe rooms everywhere, bomb shelters everywhere, because
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all the hotels have reinforced stairwells, you know that you can just go to the bomb shelter
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You know, I interviewed two Canadian hockey players a few days ago.
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They were staying in an apartment just by the Allen B impact site.
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That was the downtown impact that I mentioned earlier.
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They came out, everything was destroyed, but they were fine.
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So as long as you follow protocol, you'll be okay.
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Whereas in Ukraine, they didn't anticipate being bombed by Russia this way.
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So there you just go to your hallway or to your stairwell and you pray, uh, and that's
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And then on top of that, the scale of attacks coming from Russia is far greater.
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I mentioned earlier that the Iranians sent 100 drones to Tel Aviv.
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That was their bit, like that was their initial big response.
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You know, just a few days ago, Kiev, I think, well, all of Ukraine was trucked by a combined
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So what counts as an exceptional attack upon Israel is just a normal week for Ukraine.
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Whether that is to your home in Ukraine or back here in Toronto, where I hope to see
00:18:03.000
This is Tristan Hopper, the host of Canada Did What?
00:18:06.300
Where we unpack the biggest, weirdest, and wildest political moments in Canadian history
00:18:11.020
you thought you knew and tell you what really happened.
00:18:14.600
Stick around at the end of the episode to hear a sample of one of our favorite episodes.
00:18:19.080
If you don't want to stick around, make sure you subscribe to Canada Did What?
00:18:24.920
In my discussion with Ambassador Berkovich, we talked about many things, including how
00:18:29.500
irrelevant Canada and the Kearney Liberal government are on foreign affairs.
00:18:33.440
We don't matter on the international stage anymore.
00:18:36.180
The disastrous response, once again, from the embassy in Israel to Canadians looking for
00:18:42.140
But we began again with the personal, dealing with life conducted from a bomb shelter.
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So Vivian, as you and I were setting up to speak, you got a notice to get to your safe
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Jonathan Conricus, who we were trying to connect with, sent back a note saying, I'm, you know,
00:19:04.720
Talk to me about this, because this has been the reality, especially the last week, but for
00:19:16.560
I don't think most Canadians could relate to hearing an alarm saying, go get in a bomb
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Yeah, you can't relate until you're, you're in it.
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So what they did here, actually, for this particular round of conflict was the IDF and the Home
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Front Command kind of changed up the warning system and the signals, because I think that
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this war-weary nation had become so sort of apathetic.
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Plus, there would be one alarm and you would have, wherever you lived in the country, 15
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seconds to make it to the shelter, 10, 25, whatever it was.
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So what they are doing now is they launched a 10-minute sort of warning bell.
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It overrides, yeah, every single phone in Israel, even if you have it off and you're sleeping,
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And, but they're really smart because they knew that we'd all ignore it.
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And so on Friday at 3 a.m. when the first sound came and it's like, it's ear splitting.
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And, and it starts and it gives you this announcement that tells you get near your safe
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You, there may be incoming, you know, missiles within 10 minutes.
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So you're not rushing and tripping and falling.
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And you know how many brick, broken legs and sprained ankles there are in this country now.
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And they were brilliant because of course I rolled over in bed that night and my daughter
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She said, get out of bed and get down to the safe room.
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And then if there is an incoming missile into your area, then there is the siren.
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I remember when I was in Israel with you, we went and we spoke with a journalist and
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I'm forgetting his name, but you're going to help me remember him.
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He and his family had been in a kibbutz that was overrun.
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Very well-known political writer in, in Israel.
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And he said that, um, he wanted a life where his three and four year old girls didn't know
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what to do about a bomb shelter when they were outside playing, that this is the life
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And, and it's, it was heartbreaking to hear that, but that, that's just your reality.
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Um, I had, uh, one of my neighbor's kids here helping me out in the house with something,
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uh, when the first notice came just now, he's 15 year old boy.
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And I said to him, you know, you either come in the shelter with me or you go home with your
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Um, and so, and two seconds later, his mom called and off he went.
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Cause they're teenagers, but, uh, yeah, that is the reality for kids.
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And, um, we understand the consequences of not going in all too well.
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Over the last week, what has been the, uh, the mood of the population?
00:22:44.780
Um, you know, we, we've spoken before about, uh, at different points since October 7th, you
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and I talked before October 7th about how, uh, so many people wanted Netanyahu gone that
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changed after the war started and it's been up and down.
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Where are people at right now with, you know, now that he's prosecuting the war against Iran?
00:23:08.560
To be honest, I don't think people are really giving him much thought.
00:23:12.300
Um, I don't think that the views of Israelis with respect to Benjamin Netanyahu and the way
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in which he's conducted the, uh, war against Hamas in the Gaza Strip.
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I don't think any of those issues have, uh, moved much.
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On the political issue matrix, um, Iran is a very different equation for Israel.
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There is no daylight between people on the far left and the far right period.
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It is the financier and moral and religious leader of what I call the axis of terror in
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the Middle East, Iran, Qatar, the Houthis, Hamas, Hezbollah.
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Uh, Syria no longer is part of that axis of terror.
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Every single nation in this region wants this, this regime destroyed, including Saudi Arabia,
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They're making some noises, Saudi Arabia and Qatar.
00:24:10.120
Oh, make sure you're following international law or saying you're not following international
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Syria and Jordan have cleared airspace for Israeli jets.
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I haven't heard anything from Qatar specifically.
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Uh, Saudi, as you know, it has been very low key, but made the most public comments.
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The others have been very quiet, but behind the scenes, everyone's going like, go Israel,
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The Iranian regime is a threat to every country in the Middle East that does not support terror
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It's incredible because Israel launched the first attacks at 3am on Friday morning or around
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there and literally within 24 max 48 hours, Israel not only controlled the skies over all
00:25:06.800
of Iran, a huge country that is more than 2000, you know, kilometers away from here.
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They can't even strike without refueling their attack jets in the air.
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But we also, as you noted, um, were given clearance to, uh, use the Syrian airspace freely.
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I mean, Syria is on side with the West in this battle.
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This is, you know, a hundred years ago, it was, are you with the allies or the Axis?
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And today it's really, are you with terror or the West?
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And it doesn't mean everybody in the West is great and perfect and all that crap.
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It means there's a very stark choice to be made now.
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And, uh, the question, the real live question to be candid is on which side is Canada, France
00:25:54.520
and the UK, Germany came out very strongly yesterday, the day before Chancellor Mertz.
00:26:00.680
He said, Israel is doing the dirty work for all of us and we should all be grateful.
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Many European countries have made similar comments.
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Before we get into where Canada is, because, um, you wrote a great piece for national post
00:26:15.180
Uh, I just want to pause for a moment and have everyone think about what you were saying about
00:26:19.480
the Saudis and everyone else, but in particular Syria, Syria led by a man who until the end of
00:26:24.480
Israel a little while ago, what had been considered a member of Al Qaeda.
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Um, and you know, a lot of questions when he took over, okay, is this guy seriously reformed?
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Uh, has Syria just been taken over by a terrorist group?
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Not only does he want Israel to, to win, he clearly wants to restore, um, you know, some
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He wants people to be able to have proper jobs and live aspirationally and in peace and
00:27:03.620
comfortably and with a nice standard of living and not constantly be fighting.
00:27:08.360
But the big issue with Syria that no one's talking about is that he's kind of, Al-Sharab
00:27:15.600
is kind of giving the middle finger to Turkish, uh, president Erdogan.
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I mean, he is totally not cooperating with Erdogan.
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Erdogan is, you know, a member of NATO, but really more an ally of Iran, Qatar, Hamas,
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I don't know why Turkey under Erdogan is in NATO.
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And, um, what Syria is doing by siding with the good guys, in my view, is very, very courageous
00:27:52.460
Just looking up the, the background, cause I, you know, wasn't planning on talking about
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Uh, he, uh, he helped create the Al-Nusra front in 2012, part of the Syrian civil war
00:28:06.980
So he, uh, you know, look, if he's, if he's, uh, moving on to a better view, let, let's
00:28:15.540
You know, I just have to add, he was born in the Golan Heights, eh?
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He's a Syrian, he's a, he's a, uh, I believe he's from, uh, Majd al-Shams up in the
00:28:27.740
Um, is Canada though, uh, you know, I, I look at the statements that we've signed
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on to whether, or, or that we've put out on our own and I thought you nailed it.
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Canada used to be, you know, we were never as big as the Americans or, or, you know, various
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And, you know, maybe, maybe Mark Carney can change things.
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It's been 10 years of Trudeau denigrating our voice.
00:29:02.480
Time will tell on that, but it will not change if he stays on the path that he's on now on
00:29:16.860
And if they can get to the, to it, North America, that they want to get the great Satan, our
00:29:22.240
next door neighbor and, and inflict damage, which will damage us.
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Iran's been funding every attack on Israel for the last, how many decades?
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I mean, Iran is the, the most powerful, largest, boldest state sponsor of terrorism.
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For goodness sake, they shot down a jet with carrying dozens and dozens of Canadian citizens.
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So the, this problem, this, these platitudes that mean nothing, that they just kind of regurgitate,
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you know, in that department and from the prime minister's office, de-escalate.
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And, you know, there were the jokes, like the online memes and jokes, um, about Starmer,
00:30:24.840
Macron, and to the degree that anyone even like knows who Carney is, because of course
00:30:29.520
But like, I follow the European press closely, Middle East press.
00:30:33.440
Um, they're looking at these three countries and being like, what are you, what are you talking
00:30:44.720
Like, they're completely detached from the reality on the ground.
00:30:52.560
When Tehran does open up, when Iran opens up to the world, it is going to be so glorious.
00:30:59.340
There, it is such an incredible country, culture, very intellectual, very advanced and sophisticated.
00:31:06.000
And I'll tell you who's not going to be coming in the front door is Canada and France, especially
00:31:12.600
France that has supported this regime overtly, as it did with the previous Ayatollah.
00:31:19.960
So, you know, Carney was sort of stuck at the G7 and making his very solemn kind of banker-like
00:31:28.160
And at the same time, you have a really dramatic reordering of the world order happening in
00:31:39.280
I mean, Bibi's talking to Putin and Trump's talking to Putin and who knows who's talking
00:31:44.300
And the pieces on the chessboard are moving mighty quickly.
00:31:49.780
And the only German, sorry, the only European countries that are very engaged are Germany
00:31:56.640
and then Czech Republic, as always, and a few others.
00:32:02.840
And meanwhile, we're ignoring the fact that Ukrainian flight PS-752 had 63 Canadians on
00:32:17.080
Iran has targeted not just Israel, not just supporting Hamas and Hezbollah, but as you said,
00:32:24.460
exported terror around the world and hit country after country.
00:32:27.280
You know, we're concerned about the discussion of extrajudicial killings by India with Hardip
00:32:40.780
Well, Iran has death squads that they've been sending into Canada and the U.S. to target
00:32:45.500
us, to target people from Iran who have dared to speak up against the regime.
00:32:52.780
As you say, beautiful country, beautiful culture.
00:33:01.360
You used to want to go to Beirut and Tehran before things went sideways.
00:33:06.900
Nobody would want to go there now unless they had family there.
00:33:10.560
We also have developed a reputation in Canada, not only for being among Western nations, the
00:33:15.940
most hostile, sort of horrible country for a Jewish person to live in.
00:33:21.540
Um, that reputation has become quite entrenched, but we are well known for, um, giving Haven,
00:33:30.920
And there's word on various sites, um, in the Middle East, um, that senior IRGC officials
00:33:37.220
have already sort of, you know, hopped on planes, trains, and automobiles and made their
00:33:43.000
The prime destinations for these IRGC officials are Canada and Doha, and I am sure that they
00:33:53.520
And I don't even hear the government of Canada acknowledging that very real issue that is
00:34:02.740
being talked about in Europe and in the Middle East.
00:34:05.940
I, I will give them this small piece of defense last September, but only after incredible
00:34:13.580
pressure from especially the Iranian community here who were saying, look, we fled Iran to
00:34:20.520
escape these guys and I'm running into them at the gym and they're wearing IRGC, uh, you
00:34:30.420
It's like when we, we, we, we, when the, uh, Rwandan genocide happened, we brought in
00:34:41.820
Sadly, what we also did was allowed the, the people who committed the genocide to come and
00:34:49.340
And we're doing that with officials from this regime.
00:34:52.000
But last September, the Trudeau government announced expanded measures to try and deport them.
00:35:03.000
And in one case that happened this past January, the government, uh, wanted to deport this individual
00:35:09.360
whose name is not being released, closed door session.
00:35:13.360
And the immigration and refugee board declined and said, no, you can't deport this guy.
00:35:19.080
That, that's how crazy our country is now, Vivian.
00:35:24.840
Um, and then there will be things that'll start happening, you know, um, on Canadian soil
00:35:30.860
and people will be like, you know, wow, how'd this happen?
00:35:36.040
You've got CUPE, uh, sponsoring and supporting a hands-off Iran rally that's organized by people
00:35:42.920
who have backed all kinds of terror groups in the past.
00:35:59.880
You know, as much as we were talking about the military strikes that Israel's doing, Israel
00:36:06.120
Iran is targeting civilian sites, residential areas, hospitals.
00:36:23.980
Um, like the problem is that you're so kind of wired, high anxiety, you know, hyped on adrenaline
00:36:30.380
that even if there is a lull, you can't exactly like lie down and, you know, doze off immediately.
00:36:39.280
Like they tend to sort of strike kind of late afternoon, early evening, like now it's just
00:36:46.880
Um, and then usually there are one or two more rounds kind of late at night, um, middle of
00:36:54.540
Um, the early morning stuff of the last couple of days is new.
00:36:58.160
So, but what we do seem to be able to plan is, you know, kind of in that midday period
00:37:05.060
for a few hours to be able to get out and do whatever needs to be done.
00:37:18.820
Like, so for example, like I live on a kibbutz and there's a swimming pool and I'm a swimmer and
00:37:22.980
I, I can't work out because we can't operate the pool because there are too many people,
00:37:27.580
even though there are shelters everywhere on the kibbutz.
00:37:33.780
Like you always are very kind of cognizant of, you know, whether or not there's a shelter
00:37:38.440
or a structure you can dash to within 10 minutes if an alert comes through.
00:37:42.560
So if you're driving from one town to another, you plan it pretty carefully.
00:37:46.500
And, um, you know, I mean, so, I mean, is it normal?
00:37:55.460
I mean, it's the, it's the normal during wartime attacks from Iran.
00:37:59.940
Um, obviously I'm living in a rural area again on a kibbutz and I have a house.
00:38:05.740
And so I have a safe room in my house and it's much more comfortable.
00:38:09.200
I was taking in, you know, like underground railroad and some of them were Canadians as they
00:38:13.620
were passing through on their way from Tel Aviv, um, to Jordan to fly, fly back home.
00:38:22.420
We don't have nearly as many, um, sirens and alerts because, you know, Tel Aviv is the prize.
00:38:27.720
They want to take down buildings in Tel Aviv Iranians.
00:38:30.120
They don't care about my backwater, but you know, the other thing is, so it's easier.
00:38:39.980
Um, and it's a much more pleasant, um, environment.
00:38:43.620
The other thing is that in Tel Aviv, um, like the shelters are gross.
00:38:49.480
I mean, I know some people, you know, like where I lived in Tel Aviv in this really groovy,
00:38:54.620
you know, apartment for, for years and central, but I didn't have a safe room in my apartment.
00:39:01.180
And I also, um, had to go to a public shelter and the closest public shelter was like five minutes
00:39:09.300
Like these public shelters in Tel Aviv haven't been used since, you know, 73 war really.
00:39:16.340
Maybe for a few minutes, you know, during the Iran Iraq war.
00:39:19.580
So, you know, they're underground, there's no air.
00:39:24.780
You know, they're gross, you know, cats, raccoons, whatever we have live there.
00:39:29.560
And a lot of people are having to live in those places.
00:39:33.580
A lot of people are living in the, um, underground light rail stations, just like we see photos
00:39:42.120
So when you're in a dense urban area that's targeted, um, there's a lot of other stuff
00:39:48.980
So why not come out to a rural place and people are flocking to this area.
00:39:53.620
So I was in touch with some of the Canadians that, uh, that passed through your home and
00:39:58.960
you were known as a gracious host, but let's talk for a moment about the Canadian government
00:40:03.900
response, because just as you have been in the past, you've been critical of the current
00:40:09.880
government saying that they're doing everything they can to help people.
00:40:13.720
And you're saying, actually, you know what, um, I'm hearing from people because they can't
00:40:22.040
Uh, what, what is the reality for Canadians who are there, who want to get out or people
00:40:30.640
So people who want to come back into Israel, I've been helping out a lot of those too.
00:40:34.440
Um, the Canadian government won't take responsibility for them.
00:40:40.980
Israel's always good at repatriating their people.
00:40:42.840
Um, remember during COVID, we were the first ones to get them out of so many countries,
00:40:47.320
but in terms of Canadians who are here for all kinds of reasons, I mean, it's interesting
00:40:52.020
to see the backlash, which I don't recall having seen with Ukraine.
00:40:56.020
Um, but you know, well, they're not really our citizens anyhow.
00:41:04.240
Is that from officials or is that just online clap?
00:41:10.340
But I mean, in terms of the officials and the response, um, look, I, I didn't want to
00:41:16.900
run civil evacuation flights after October 7th, nor did I want to open my home, particularly
00:41:23.220
I was happy to do it where there was a need, but you know, it wasn't in the plans.
00:41:26.960
Um, it's unbelievable because, um, the little operation we set up after October 7th, we
00:41:32.960
helped hundreds and hundreds of people and thousands have my number.
00:41:40.220
Even when I lie down and try to rest calls, I get messages day and night.
00:41:45.220
They're in touch with the Canadian embassy, so to speak.
00:41:51.880
Um, first they didn't do anything for a few days.
00:41:55.880
They're like, call back on Monday during business hours.
00:42:03.320
Um, and, and, and this is not the first time I've remembered there was a long weekend.
00:42:08.400
October 7th happened over Thanksgiving weekend for Canadians.
00:42:12.140
And, and, and they refused to do anything then.
00:42:14.440
Oh, well, you know, we have Turkey to look after.
00:42:17.240
If you were ambassador and this was happening, if you were still Canada's ambassador, what
00:42:30.340
And in fact, I was ambassador during a war during 2014 in the summer with Hamas.
00:42:35.100
And, you know, the protocol, so to speak, and the people in Ottawa were telling me, you
00:42:42.360
And frankly, I think the work ethic there is a pollen.
00:42:50.100
My, my Canadian citizens who need help are my clients.
00:42:59.220
And at the time, I mean, I was appointed by Prime Minister Harper.
00:43:01.700
So I did have the support of the Prime Minister's office.
00:43:12.380
And you know who I was really busting my behind for to help then?
00:43:21.060
Canadian citizens, many of whom lived full time for many, many years in the Gaza Strip.
00:43:26.660
And then when the war hit, they would always want to get out.
00:43:28.880
And we mounted several very complex operations in conjunction.
00:43:35.260
We had to work with the Red Cross because they liaised with Hamas to get them out of the Gaza Strip, onto buses, overland.
00:43:44.700
And then they would pass through at the Allenby Bridge.
00:43:47.400
And then the personnel from our Amman embassy would take over from there once they were in Jordan.
00:43:53.620
There are many countries here on the ground now that have already launched overland bus evacuations for their citizens on exactly the same route.
00:44:04.860
So they're assembling them from, you know, Tel Aviv, Jerusalem.
00:44:09.200
I was reading this morning, a couple of other cities show up for the bus and will take in.
00:44:14.020
The Argentinian embassy is taking its citizens straight through to the airport in Amman.
00:44:21.420
There are some boat evacuations that have been going on.
00:44:27.020
Many, many countries have been very, very active.
00:44:29.520
I can also tell you on October 7th, when the crisis broke, there were some Canadians murdered.
00:44:35.500
On October 7th, there were many Canadians who were kind of, they disappeared.
00:44:41.180
The super hotline, you know, that the memos that the office here sends out every day to Canadians stranded.
00:44:48.400
Oh, well, you know, we're not working because, like, it's a long weekend and everything.
00:45:01.120
In fact, some were even unaware that there was anything going on, and if there was, what it was.
00:45:06.240
People sent me recordings of their conversations.
00:45:22.300
Sometimes you just go round and round and round in a loop, and you get nowhere, and eventually it hangs up on you.
00:45:28.120
They're saying to people here on the ground, if you really want to see someone in person, a consular official, you can come to the Canadian embassy in person.
00:45:41.760
Monday to Thursday during business hours, whatever those are.
00:45:51.440
You're telling people in a war zone that they should transport themselves from wherever they are in the country to your embassy, which is horribly located in Tel Aviv, and that's a whole other story,
00:46:05.180
if they want to have the privilege of speaking to a consular official in person.
00:46:11.400
Number one, and they know this well, about 85-90% of Canada's consular clients, i.e. citizens, live in the Jerusalem area, not in the Tel Aviv area.
00:46:23.360
We don't even have a consular presence in Jerusalem.
00:46:27.000
So you're telling people in this very dangerous war situation that they should get on the road to come and see you.
00:46:37.480
Everybody has children at home who they have to take care of because schools and all programs are cancelled.
00:46:42.940
Is there a reason that the government of Canada cannot set up a bank of phones and have people sit and answer them?
00:47:01.420
Make it easy, make it snappy, and make it informative.
00:47:08.840
And it doesn't sound like that's going to change based on how things have been going.
00:47:12.420
As Adam looks to leave Israel, as many Canadians are trying to do, as Ambassador Berkovich stays there trying to help those in need,
00:47:20.600
we only wish the best for them and safety for all.
00:47:23.680
And we also hope that after the bombing that Iran realizes going on with their nuclear program is a fool's game and that peace comes to the region.
00:47:39.000
This episode was produced by Andre Proulx, theme music by Bryce Hall.
00:47:45.640
Please make sure that you hit subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, on Spotify, on Apple, wherever you listen.
00:47:52.160
Hit subscribe, leave us a like or a review, and tell your friends about us.
00:48:11.180
Castro would end up occupying a space in the Trudeau family similar to that of a beloved uncle.
00:48:22.880
Informal talks at an island hideaway intensified their respect for each other and their mutual enjoyment of skin diving added to the rapport.
00:48:32.740
In addition to a well-publicized 1976 summit meeting, Trudeau took three separate vacations to visit Castro after his time in politics had ended.
00:48:41.920
I can make, you know, just one reference to Pierre Trudeau's sons to show the closeness of the relationship.
00:48:53.280
The nickname that the Trudeau's sons had for Fidel Castro was Papa Fidel.
00:48:57.760
So, that gives you an indication of the closeness of the bond that existed between a communist dictator, you know, thorn in the side of every American administration for the past 50 years, and Pierre Trudeau.
00:49:13.820
When Trudeau's youngest son, Michel, died in an avalanche in 1998, Castro called the family in tears to express his condolences.
00:49:22.700
As an eight-year-old, Michel had referred to Fidel Castro as his best friend.
00:49:27.760
When Pierre died, Fidel declared three days of mourning in Cuba and flew to Montreal to act as an honorary pallbearer.
00:49:35.140
Every time Trudeau went down to Cuba, all the people in South Florida, the, you know, the exiles were thinking,
00:49:43.040
why is this Western leader giving comfort to a murderous dictator, you know, who is oppressing their people in Cuba and saying, you know, good things about Fidel Castro?
00:49:54.520
And as I've mentioned, to have him in the pew at Trudeau's funeral in the front row as a dignified person when he had been such a brutal leader says more about Pierre Trudeau than it does about Fidel Castro.
00:50:14.540
Here's where we should probably touch on what Castro had done and what he was continuing to do while going on beach vacations with the Trudeau family.
00:50:22.140
If you want to hear the rest of the story, make sure you subscribe to Canada Did What?