Full Comment - How Qatar supports terrorists and still enjoys vast western influence

00:00:00.000 Qatar. It's a small country. It's one of the smallest of the Gulf states, a population of

00:00:07.480 less than 3 million people, but a GDP that outsizes their population. And it has become central to

00:00:15.100 peace in the Middle East, to push for a Middle East peace plan by President Donald Trump.

00:00:19.580 And yet, it also throws its weight around the Western world.

00:00:23.080 Hello and welcome to the Full Comment Podcast. My name's Brian Lilly, your host.

00:00:26.580 And if you're like me, you don't know as much about Qatar as you'd like to,

00:00:31.880 especially at this pivotal moment in time. You've heard that Qatar and Egypt were interlockers with

00:00:38.040 the United States in trying to secure a peace deal. You may have also heard that they can be a

00:00:42.900 malignant force in the Western world, funding universities to the tunes of tens of millions

00:00:48.920 of dollars and, according to some, funding anti-Semitism on campus and other fights that

00:00:54.820 undermine the Western way of life. So, what is the reality with Qatar? That is what we are trying 1.00

00:01:00.820 to break down on the Full Comment Podcast this week. And to do that, well, two people who know a lot

00:01:07.320 about the region, but with two very different points of view. Professor Elan Benmaier is a retired

00:01:14.040 professor from New York University. He was born in Iraq. He has studied the region extensively,

00:01:19.500 writes on the topics of the Middle East extensively, and appears on television, radio, podcasts, and

00:01:25.080 elsewhere. On the other side of the issue is Haras Rafiq. Born and raised in the United States to a

00:01:31.100 Muslim family, he is someone who is, well, very much of the view that Qatar is not a benign force,

00:01:38.460 not a friend. He is a trustee of the UK charity of Muslims against anti-Semitism. He's been a counter-

00:01:44.100 extremism and counter-terrorism expert since 2004, working with the UK government, the American

00:01:51.140 government, Canadians, and elsewhere. And he is also part of the group that is known as the Institute

00:01:57.720 for the Study of Global Anti-Semitism and Policy. We spoke to both gentlemen from their respective

00:02:03.780 homes in New York City and in the United Kingdom, and want to bring you this conversation. First,

00:02:09.420 my discussion with Professor Benmaier. So, Professor, how did Qatar end up as this linchpin 1.00

00:02:17.380 in Middle Eastern security right now, in the peace talks? This is a country with some difficult

00:02:25.520 relationships with its neighbors, some questionable ties in the past to terrorism, promoting anti-Western

00:02:32.400 issues, and now they are the linchpin. How did we arrive at this point?

00:02:36.040 Professor Benmaier. Well, this is, you know, go back, you might say, several decades, for

00:02:40.420 the matter of fact, you know, Qatar is the mother land of the Jazeera. So, Qatar has been,

00:02:46.900 you know, broadcasting itself as a country that has been advancing, so to speak, of free speech.

00:02:55.000 And Jazeera has had significant influence over the Arab world for many, many years now. So,

00:03:00.540 this is, this is a factor, an important factor. The second thing, Qatar was the home, so to speak,

00:03:06.180 of the Hamas leadership throughout the years. That is, Hamas openly supported Hamas financially.

00:03:12.900 As a matter of fact, Netanyahu himself was a conduit. He transferred billions, I should say,

00:03:19.160 in cash, in suitcases of money from Qatar to the Hamas or Hamas. So, Qatar was a very strong supporter

00:03:27.080 of Hamas, and Hamas leadership primarily resided in Qatar. The other thing is Hamas, of course,

00:03:36.440 Qatar wealth has played an extremely important role in financing its various projects throughout the

00:03:44.120 Middle East. And it has acquired this reputation. But, and the most important thing is, of course,

00:03:49.160 it's the house of the largest U.S. military base in the region. And it has been as such. So,

00:03:57.080 it is extremely close ally of the United States. And it has held that position for many decades now.

00:04:05.080 And that gives it the sort of the not original, become a regional power, you might say, but also

00:04:12.200 international has been able to exert significant influence as a result of that because of its

00:04:18.040 involvement in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, because of its strong relationship with the United

00:04:24.840 States, and because of its ability to put its money, so to speak, where its mouth is by financing any kind

00:04:33.080 of project that is deemed to advance its national interest. And in such a place, you know, the Emir of

00:04:40.440 Qatar places himself in a very important role, and he continued to adhere to that, to play that role

00:04:47.560 for many years now. And the final point I want to make is an attack, attacking Qatar that is trying to 1.00

00:04:55.400 assassinate Hamas negotiator, you know, a few weeks back. And that also put again Qatar in the spotlight

00:05:03.560 again, and made it possible that for President Trump, actually, when Netanyahu was in the White House,

00:05:13.080 to apologize to Qatar for the attack. And that gave Qatar another layer of, you know, I might say, 0.66

00:05:19.240 another level of strength to have presented itself as a major player.

00:05:25.240 You mentioned that Hamas is resident in Qatar. How did that happen? Because they weren't always

00:05:32.520 there. My understanding is that it goes back to the Obama administration wanting them there to,

00:05:38.840 I guess, facilitate negotiations at one point.

00:05:41.160 Yeah, well, you know, Hamas, Qatar believed all along in the Palestinian cause. They do not necessarily

00:05:51.720 advocate violence per se, but they have believed in the Palestinian cause. And they saw Hamas as a

00:06:00.120 movement that, from their perspective, could advance the Palestinian cause. Again, regardless of their own

00:06:08.920 calculation. From their perspective, this was a necessary element to do in order to keep the

00:06:16.360 Israeli-Palestinian conflict, so to speak, alive and not dormant. And so from there, they saw Hamas as

00:06:25.720 a conduit to keep the light, so to speak, albeit they have not advocated or encouraged Hamas to undertake

00:06:36.440 necessarily in a consistent violent action against Israel. So they sort of, they played it both ways.

00:06:44.920 Because, again, having close relationship with the United States was very important to them.

00:06:50.280 On the other hand, they were able also to maintain that kind of relationship with an extremist Palestinian 0.79

00:06:56.280 group. And I think that put them all along in a very better position than any other Arab 0.99

00:07:02.040 countries. And they're playing this role they're playing today. Because they can claim to have been

00:07:07.800 behind Hamas years back, and now they have been able to gain the influence, significant influence 0.69

00:07:13.480 over Hamas, to be able now to persuade Hamas to a great extent to go along with the various concessions

00:07:19.640 they have been making all along.

00:07:20.520 The issue of the payments from Qatar to Hamas has come up frequently. And people who are, well, 0.99

00:07:31.080 they're beyond strong critics of the Israeli government. They seem to believe things that

00:07:36.040 aren't quite true. They will say, Hamas is just an Israeli invention. And look, they funded them through 0.99

00:07:42.200 Qatar and all of this. I spoke to the gentleman who delivered the first payments to Qatar years ago,

00:07:51.880 a general name, a gentleman named Colonel Grishka Jakubowicz. And he said at the time that everyone

00:07:59.720 thought this was the right idea, that this would bring about peace. Was everyone just misguided by

00:08:07.720 the Qataris, the Israelis, the Americans? Because they all seemed to think it would bring about 0.98

00:08:13.160 peace and stability. And Hamas obviously had different ideas.

00:08:17.560 No, I think precisely the opposite is what actually happened. Netanyahu was very clear,

00:08:24.200 and he said it on a number of occasions. We need to support Hamas in order to maintain the cleavage, 0.94

00:08:30.520 the gap between Hamas and the Palestinian Authority. And in so doing, we're going to

00:08:36.760 prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state. He has said that time and time and again.

00:08:42.520 Quoting him, those who want to prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state should be

00:08:47.640 supporting Hamas. And in so doing, maintaining the competitiveness between the two sides. 0.76

00:08:54.360 That was really Netanyahu's idea from day one. He sustained that all the time that he has been in power.

00:09:02.200 And I can tell you from sources that I'm very familiar with, and I'm first-hand sources. I can say that.

00:09:11.320 Israeli intelligence, Israel and Netanyahu himself knew all along for years now.

00:09:16.760 The extent of the tunnels that are being built, the extent of the money, how much of that money they've

00:09:22.200 been receiving from Qatar was going to procuring weapons, developing new weapons for Hamas.

00:09:28.680 Hamas and Netanyahu knew this all along. But from his perspective, maintaining that relationship

00:09:36.920 is going to be a factor in preventing the Israeli-Palestinian from getting together, united,

00:09:43.400 and to move toward, and to demand the Palestinians. He said that's what he wanted all along. And as a matter of 0.94

00:09:49.480 fact, throughout these negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians, going back to 2008, 2009,

00:09:55.400 with Almut and others, Netanyahu always mentioned, if there's a unity government, he will not negotiate

00:10:01.400 with the India government because Hamas is part of it. But he will not negotiate with all Palestinians 1.00

00:10:06.040 because they are not united. That has been his gameplay all along. So to him, this was a

00:10:11.720 fact that supporting Hamas directly led to preventing the establishment of the Palestinian state.

00:10:22.680 Qatar has also been quite successful in building up their influence in Western countries, the United

00:10:31.960 States, in Canada, United Kingdom, elsewhere. A lot of money going towards universities. Has this been an

00:10:39.640 attempt by Qatar to extend their influence beyond the Arab world? You mentioned Al Jazeera. And yes,

00:10:48.040 they are influential within Western countries with the Arab diaspora, but they don't have the same clout

00:10:57.080 that they do in the Middle East and elsewhere. So is this an attempt, all this money to the universities,

00:11:02.120 to buy up influence? There's no doubt about it. They have been used the

00:11:09.880 significant wealth in order to advance their interest outside Qatar and outside the Arab world in Europe.

00:11:17.320 And by financing from making significant contribution to many universities in Europe and elsewhere.

00:11:23.720 This is part of their overall plan. And they have always, you know, using the fact that the United

00:11:30.440 States has maintained the largest military base in Qatar, that was something that they've always been

00:11:35.880 advertising, that they are actually pivotal to Western interest in the Middle East. They are pivotal to

00:11:44.200 the Western security in the Middle East. This is something that they've been able to sell and they've been

00:11:48.440 able to sell it effectively, has also done.

00:11:50.440 Donald Trump clearly had to lean on Benjamin Netanyahu to get him to the place where he is now.

00:11:57.080 How much did Qatar have to lean on the leadership of Hamas, be it Sheikh Mohammed or others in the

00:12:02.520 Qatari leadership, saying to their Hamas contacts, you need to accept this deal. You need to move

00:12:11.480 forward. Because they've been close many times and then walked away. And of course, the countries such

00:12:18.120 as Canada, the United Kingdom, France, recognizing a Palestinian state at the United Nations just

00:12:24.120 weeks ago could have emboldened them. So, how much was it Qatar leaning on them and saying,

00:12:29.400 no, it's time to take the deal that got them to this place?

00:12:33.080 BASOLA I don't know very heavily that have been on them. They have been telling them clearly,

00:12:38.680 we have supported you for all these years. And this is where we are now. We have found ourselves

00:12:44.840 what's up now. You have a historic opportunity to change course, to change direction.

00:12:51.240 But Hamas is also saying, okay, we want to play a role. We want to play a role in the 0.72

00:12:57.400 political process. This is what I'm hearing from Qataris themselves. They want to play a role.

00:13:03.480 Hamas amended its charter in 2017, agreeing to the two-state solution at the time.

00:13:10.840 Before, they were calling for Hudna for like the CISFA for 20 years. But in 2017,

00:13:15.400 they've changed their charter. I think if they are given the opportunity a path now,

00:13:19.960 to be a part of the political process, you might find Hamas to be amenable to join the

00:13:30.120 movement toward peace. And then again, you have also the Arab state, the Saudi Arabia, who are insisting

00:13:37.080 that further normalization of relations with Israel by Saudis and many other Arab countries and other

00:13:43.720 Islamists is going to dehinge upon establishing a clear path toward a solution to Israeli Palestinian 0.99

00:13:50.040 community, two-state solution. Hamas is in favor of that. 100% is in favor of that. The question is, 0.83

00:13:57.480 will they be given the opportunity? Because to suggest, lay down your arms, and you will have

00:14:04.040 absolutely no role to play in the future, that is going to be a problem. That's going to basically

00:14:09.240 freeze the whole process, as I see it. So you don't believe the claim that Hamas launched October

00:14:15.560 7th to scuttle the normalization of relationships between, relations between Israel and Saudi Arabia,

00:14:24.120 because that has been widely reported that they wanted to make sure that didn't happen.

00:14:28.440 Absolutely. That is the case. That was part of their strategy, yes.

00:14:32.200 But now it's different?

00:14:34.040 Well, of course. You look at any revolutionary movement, historically speaking,

00:14:40.600 sooner or later, after decades, after sometimes a century of fighting, they come to the conclusion

00:14:45.960 that they have come to a state where they may have to make a choice. How much longer will they

00:14:53.080 continue to fight? I think they have succeeded. And honestly, I feel very strongly that

00:14:58.360 they have, as I weigh the whole picture today, as far as I'm concerned, Hamas has led to where we 0.82

00:15:05.960 are today. Hamas's attack, however, disgusting, savagery it was. And the horrific destruction that 0.51

00:15:16.200 took place in Gaza has changed the dynamic of Israeli-Palestinian company in a fundamental way,

00:15:21.800 in a fundamental way. And in my view, the two-state solution today become a more viable option than

00:15:28.520 any time before going back 30 or 40 years for that matter. So time, things change. The dynamics

00:15:35.480 have changed in a dramatic way because of these events. And Hamas, if there are any people, 0.62

00:15:42.280 wise among them right now, they have brought this about, and now they can capitalize on it. Doha,

00:15:49.640 Qatar is playing a very important role in saying to them, you have made this, you have brought it to

00:15:54.360 this point, let's build on it, because you have no way of succeeding militarily against Israel. Israel 0.61

00:16:01.720 will always be able to crush you, to crush any violent resistance, as it has all along. So you have no

00:16:09.720 chance of defeating Israel by violence. That's going to happen. And since now they have reached, 0.99

00:16:17.480 you got to a point where you can capitalize on what's changed globally in support of the

00:16:22.840 Palestinian cause. And from that perspective, Hamas can say they have won. They have won this battle. 0.95

00:16:31.960 How important is it to have Saudi Arabia and all these other countries from the region

00:16:38.600 backing the peace plan? And does that keep both the Israelis and the Palestinians on side?

00:16:45.560 The Israelis, because they want that normalization of relations. Palestinians, because, well,

00:16:51.320 Qatar and others have been their patrons. And they won't be there if they start fighting again.

00:16:57.320 I think Saudi Arabia has played and continues to play an extremely important role,

00:17:05.480 not just in and of itself to normalize relations with Israel, but given its status as the leading

00:17:12.760 Arab state today, because of its position as the representative of the Sunni Islam. What Saudi Arabia

00:17:22.920 does says it matters a great deal at this point. And I think as long as Saudi Arabia continues to insist 0.93

00:17:32.200 that it will not normalize relations with Israel until there is a clear path towards a solution to the

00:17:38.360 Israeli-Palestinian conflict, that's going to be very important. That will continue to put pressure

00:17:43.720 on the Israeli government. And I might say, you know, I have to say that I don't really expect that this

00:17:50.840 government, the Netanyahu government, as it is composed today, is going to go along with the

00:17:58.520 Palestinian statehood. That has to change. So we are far off from talking about it, practically speaking,

00:18:05.320 in terms of here we're going to have moving toward two-state solution. There's going to be significant

00:18:10.440 change within the Israeli mindset itself how to approach this whole thing. But what happened in

00:18:17.720 the last two years has awakened many people, both in Israel and among the Palestinians, that this is a

00:18:23.240 dead end. That continuing violence, as I said, continuing war between the two sides has led to

00:18:30.200 nowhere. And in fact, today Israeli-Palestinian relations has been worse than it has been since 1948.

00:18:37.640 So the both strategy, the strategy of resistance, violent resistance has failed on both sides.

00:18:43.480 Israeli use of a brutal power occupation has failed. And the Palestinian resistance, Islamic resistance, 0.93

00:18:50.200 Jihad, Hamas, has also failed. So this is, I think there is now a crossroad on both sides, 0.70

00:18:57.400 need to face it. Where do we go from here? Continuing violent resistance, continuing war,

00:19:02.600 it is not going to lead to any better result than what happened today.

00:19:11.400 For years, Saudi Arabia was in the lead-up to 9-11, turning a blind eye towards groups like Al-Qaeda,

00:19:20.200 at times playing footsies with terrorism. That charge has been made against Qatar in recent years.

00:19:25.800 Saudi Arabia evolved away from that. How do you see Qatar when it comes to their support

00:19:33.800 of terrorism generally throughout the region?

00:19:37.160 I think Qatar is not supporting any, really, to my knowledge, any other Islamic resistance

00:19:48.200 movement other than Hamas has been all along. Even their relationship with Islamic Jihad was

00:19:53.240 extremely limited, extremely limited. Today Qatar wants to play, continue to play a very important

00:20:01.720 role. One of the prerequisites that the Qatari Amir sees that they will have to support a peace process

00:20:12.040 and no longer support any resistance movement, any violent resistance movement. This is what they are

00:20:18.680 doing now. This is the path they have chosen to do because they want to hold on to the position that

00:20:25.320 they have been able to acquire to gain now and not allow that to wither. So that's

00:20:34.360 their strategy now to continue to play a very important role, but it will have to be excluding

00:20:41.240 the support of any other violent resistance movement among the Palestinians.

00:20:45.960 A quick break from this discussion, and when we come back, my conversation with Haras Rafiq

00:20:51.880 with a very different point of view.

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00:21:57.320 where we unpack the biggest, weirdest, and wildest political moments in Canadian history you thought you

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00:22:13.320 Did What? everywhere you get podcasts. Well, you've heard one side of the argument about Qatar,

00:22:18.840 that they are a good force, that they are vibrant partners of the United States. That's not the view of

00:22:25.960 everyone. And so we wanted to get a different idea. Haras Rafiq is someone who has been studying

00:22:33.160 terrorism. He's been studying issues around Qatar for years. He has advised governments in the United

00:22:38.920 Kingdom, in Canada, in the United States, government institutions as well, and joins us on the line from

00:22:45.080 the UK. Haras, it's great to speak to you again. Your view on Qatar, a malign element, a benign element. 1.00

00:22:56.600 First of all, Brian, thank you for having me on your show again. It's always a pleasure to be on.

00:23:03.240 The question that you asked is actually, the answer is very straightforward. Qatar for the last

00:23:10.040 five years plus has been one of the single drivers and supporters and promoters and enablers and funders

00:23:18.520 of what we believe and what we call, and actually it's not a name that we've made up,

00:23:23.000 Islamist extremism around the world. And when I say Islamist, I'm talking Islamism as opposed to Islam. 0.92

00:23:30.360 In the same way that we have a difference between social and socialism, social happens to be the

00:23:34.760 the way that we interact, and socialism is a distinct political ideology that just happens to be left of

00:23:40.040 centre. Islamism is separate to Islam, and it is a distinct political ideology. Islam is a...

00:23:46.280 Islamism is a political interpretation of Islam. Is that how you would put it?

00:23:53.080 So Islamism, as from the words of the Islamists, let's use their definitions. First of all, Islamism 0.99

00:24:00.840 is a plausible reading of Islam, one of many, and it's a contemporary reading that comes from two

00:24:07.560 places, from the Middle East for the Muslim Brotherhood and from sort of Indian, Southeast

00:24:12.440 Asia with the Jamaat Islami. And they say, and they use the word Islamism, Islamiyun in Arabic,

00:24:18.200 to differentiate themselves from ordinary Muslims at the time. Two things that they have that are

00:24:23.640 very clear, and one is a tactic. The first thing is that it is the desire to actually enforce a

00:24:31.240 version of state law derived from the personal code of Sharia on all of the people in a state.

00:24:37.960 Secondly is to spread that around the world, and the tactic is to wipe Israel off the map. 0.99

00:24:43.640 Islam is a religion that's practiced by people in so many different ways around the world,

00:24:47.560 often excommunicating each other, I hasten to add. But Islamism is, as far as they're concerned, 0.91

00:24:52.920 and as far as they've defined, a distinct political ideology. But it is a plausible reading of Islam,

00:24:59.960 one of many.

00:25:00.600 Yeah, I think that that part, that there are so many different interpretations is lost on people

00:25:07.320 in the West, even though there's more than 25,000 different denominations of Christianity,

00:25:13.160 Christianity. And we don't bat an eye at that, but perhaps it's not as political,

00:25:18.520 at least these days. You're a Muslim, would you be excommunicated by the Islamists?

00:25:26.760 I'm going to answer that question by saying I have been excommunicated by the Islamists. 1.00

00:25:31.160 It's not that I would. Over the years, I've been called a kafir, an apostate, a heretic,

00:25:37.800 an Islam... But actually, it's not Muslims that tend to call me an Islamophobe, it's non-Muslims 1.00

00:25:42.520 that tend to call me an Islamophobe, and those that are actually working as what we call

00:25:47.720 part of the red-green alliance, where red represents the regressive left, and green represents Islamist

00:25:54.040 theocracies. Yeah, I've been excommunicated many times, but my thing is I'm from the aspects of

00:26:02.680 traditional classical Islam, which isn't political Islam, nor is it Islamism.

00:26:07.560 So your view is that Qatar is trying to spread this. Is that through funding of universities? Is

00:26:19.080 it through Al Jazeera? Is it all of the above? We see the funding of universities in Canada is

00:26:26.680 significant. It's even bigger in the United States, though. Is this all part of an attempt to push a

00:26:34.040 viewpoint that is at odds with the West, or are they just trying to, you know, as our previous

00:26:40.680 guests say, you know, well, they're good partners with the Americans? So there was a time when most,

00:26:48.440 if not all, of the Arab states in the Middle East were funding, supporting, promoting, whether it's

00:26:56.600 through universities, whether it's through other elements of soft power, the Muslim Brotherhood ideology.

00:27:02.920 Something interesting and very important happened a few years ago, where Saudi Arabia, the UAE,

00:27:09.800 Bahrain, and other countries have since caught up as well, for their own reasons, I hasten to add,

00:27:16.280 decided that Islamism, and particularly Muslim Brotherhood, was a direct threat to their own 0.54

00:27:23.960 sovereignty and to peace within the region. What they decided to do was actually ban the Muslim 1.00

00:27:30.200 Brotherhood as a terrorist entity in any of their offshoots and derivatives. Qatar didn't. And there 0.86

00:27:36.200 was a Gulf blockade of Qatar a few years ago, when they tried to put pressure on Qatar, to try to stop

00:27:43.160 enabling and continuing with their support. And the fact that Islamism and the Muslim Brotherhood 0.97

00:27:49.400 is very much part of the institution within Qatar. Qatar decided to double down, the blockade didn't work,

00:27:56.920 and they got support from Turkey and from Iran. So they tried a different approach. Right now,

00:28:03.080 in the Middle East, in the Arab countries, the main Arab, the majority Arab, the big ones that we would 0.59

00:28:08.920 consider, putting Kuwait to one side. Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Bahrain, Jordan, Egypt, have all banned the

00:28:20.440 Muslim Brotherhood ideology as a terrorist entity. Qatar hasn't. I hasten to add a sidebar. Israel is 0.92

00:28:28.520 also another country that hasn't banned the Muslim Brotherhood, but that's another sort of point that

00:28:34.920 rather than banning them, they actually have members of the Muslim Brotherhood ideology who are

00:28:40.520 representatives within Parliament. And that's the decision they've taken. We can discuss that later

00:28:45.320 if you like. But to answer your question directly, Qatar decided that they want to influence.

00:28:53.960 They're a very small country. They're one of the smallest countries in the region, that they want to

00:28:59.080 have influence within the region, throughout the West. So they decided to actually continue with this

00:29:06.040 funding, supporting in universities, but other aspects as well. The Muslim Brotherhood came up

00:29:13.240 with a strategy in the 1980s, and the document was found in a Swiss counter-terrorism raid. And then

00:29:20.040 another document was found that actually supported that in the US, and was used in the Holy Land Foundation

00:29:25.960 trials a 100-year plan on how they're going to infiltrate and effect change within Western countries,

00:29:35.080 especially North America, and that includes Canada and the US. Qatar has been promoting that and

00:29:42.200 supporting it financially around the world. Canada is one of the main places, the US, of course, in the UK

00:29:49.800 and Europe as well. But they're still doing it, they haven't stopped. And they are really causing, I

00:29:58.840 blame in the modern day times, Qatar, for actually enabling this ideology that is a direct threat to our 0.58

00:30:10.120 liberal secular democracies, more than any other country in the world, through the financing and the direct support

00:30:16.760 that they're giving. Can you speak to me a bit about the Muslim Brotherhood? Because 0.76

00:30:22.520 while I'm familiar with it, I'm sure many listeners are not. And, you know, my read of Canada, as it has

00:30:30.280 stood for the last 20 years that I've been looking at this, is fertile ground for the Muslim Brotherhood. 0.99

00:30:36.360 Absolutely. So the Muslim Brotherhood was, so post the age of the empires, when we had the 0.99

00:30:42.520 Ottoman Empire, we had the British Empire, when that collapsed sort of after World War One and

00:30:48.120 started to decline, we saw that the Middle East was carved up into protectorates, and Britain and

00:30:56.920 France and others. And there was a group of people, at the time led by a guy called Hassan al-Banna,

00:31:03.000 who used to be a school teacher, that wanted to bring back in what they called the glory days of Islam.

00:31:08.760 And they thought, well, we need to become more in line with what they considered to be

00:31:15.640 Islamic values, from their perspective. So the Muslim Brotherhood was born, and then 0.99

00:31:20.360 along the way there were instances where they worked with governments, and they were born in Egypt.

00:31:25.560 They found fertile ground for their ideology outside of Egypt, and they found lots of money.

00:31:31.880 And with that money, they were able to spread this ideology around the world.

00:31:37.000 They've never really wanted an Islamic State in Europe. Their focus has always been to have 1.00

00:31:43.080 it somewhere in the Middle East. Now let's move on to what they were doing, what the strategy has

00:31:47.560 been in the West. The Muslim Brotherhood does not exist as an official entity in Canada, the UK,

00:31:55.240 or the US. Rather, what they did, because of this whole history of sometimes being banned,

00:32:00.440 sometimes working with governments, etc., they used a strategy of getting their people to set

00:32:07.960 up organizations, institutions, whether it's in education, whether it's to speak to government,

00:32:13.640 whether it's academia, whether it's just social care, that were aligned directly to their ideology.

00:32:21.960 And what we've seen over the years is funding from, initially from Saudi Arabia and the UAE and others,

00:32:27.880 but they've cut it and they no longer support it. Now, from Qatar, that has actually created this beast 1.00

00:32:35.240 that actually has a very high level of success in the way that they've been able to penetrate our societies.

00:32:43.400 Are we able to tie in the protest movements that we've seen since October 7th, supporting Hamas,

00:32:55.560 supporting violent terrorist acts, to this funding from Qatar, through Muslim Brotherhood or other

00:33:03.720 organizations, through their funding of Al Jazeera and a media outfit that is still freely

00:33:12.840 available to get in Canada while other media outlets are shut down or blocked? Can we tie all of that back to Qatar?

00:33:20.440 So, we can tie a lot of things to Qatar which are directly related to terrorism in other countries.

00:33:27.560 And there's plenty of sort of news open source out there where Qatar has been accused by its neighbors

00:33:33.480 and even by the US and even by the UK of actually funding terrorist activities, not in Canada.

00:33:41.400 But what we can say about Canada, if we're talking specifically about Canada, what they've been able to do

00:33:47.880 and what they've done is, first of all, is create the dissemination of Islamism and we find ourselves 0.79

00:33:56.040 in a situation that we see with the protest where the entryism has been so great through professors,

00:34:02.440 through their funding. Look, Qatar is funding a lot of universities in Canada. You've got universities

00:34:09.240 like McGill and others and we've, in our report that we did as ISCAP, we've put the facts out on the table.

00:34:17.960 But what they've done is they've created this beast and now we're moving on to what I'm

00:34:22.920 calling what we're calling Islamism beyond Islamist and Islam. And that is where we have non-Muslims, 1.00

00:34:30.600 we have non-Islamists that have come together on common platforms, this hatred of Jews, this hatred of 0.59

00:34:37.400 Israel, especially after post, sorry, post-October the 7th, where the messaging, the demands of these

00:34:45.800 activists, these encampments are directly in line with what the Islamists have been asking for. We've 0.98

00:34:52.680 heard people on these encampments, actually in the list of demands, demanding the release of

00:35:00.280 convicted Islamist terrorists. What's that in the West, in the US and other places?

00:35:05.720 And they're portrayed just as, well, they're hostages, just like the Israeli hostages. No,

00:35:11.560 they killed a lot of people in a terrorist attack.

00:35:13.880 Yeah, look, at the end of the day, we in the West, we in Canada, Canada has its own legal system. And

00:35:23.080 it is separate from government, it's independent, the judiciary is, and the people, or in Canada,

00:35:28.760 in the US or the UK, the people that have actually, they're talking about terrorists,

00:35:32.600 convicted terrorists in the West. They're not even talking about people in Israel. They're talking

00:35:37.720 about Arsia Bibi. This is a person who's al-Qaeda, who's been convicted by going through the Jew 1.00

00:35:43.640 process in the US of killing or enabling and supporting and killing a lot of people. 0.65

00:35:51.320 And these are the demands. And I don't see what that's got to do with the release of hostages

00:35:56.520 in Israel or actually a ceasefire in Gaza. These are demands that you would only expect and hear from

00:36:06.600 Muslims who are Islamists a few years ago. So the funding has enabled this ideology through academia, 0.88

00:36:13.560 through professors, through the grants of actually spreading and becoming almost mainstream in a lot

00:36:21.400 of universities. And I'll give you another example of something. So we did a report on Texas A&M in the US,

00:36:31.240 and they received billions of, and sometimes undocumented money from Qatar, from Qatar proxies.

00:36:38.520 And the proxies happen to be the Qatar Foundation, which is a separate company, but wholly owned by the

00:36:44.040 government. So when some president from a university says, we don't receive any money from the Qatari

00:36:49.320 government. Technically and legally, they're actually correct. They're not lying. But what they

00:36:55.640 actually mean is that, yeah, we've got money from Qatar Foundation, which is a separate entity,

00:37:00.440 which is wholly owned by the Qatari state. So it is actually coming from the government. But Texas A&M

00:37:05.800 was giving billions. And we found online on one of their portals, on Qatar Foundation portals,

00:37:13.080 the actual contract, and there were three problematic areas. One was that Qatar owned all of the IP and all

00:37:21.480 the research that it actually commissioned. And we found that approximately 10% of that research had

00:37:28.600 potential dual purpose applications, including nuclear and other weapons. The second thing was that they had

00:37:36.360 access to all student information. And of course, they owned all of the IP. And we exposed it.

00:37:46.680 They doubled down and said, no, no, no. And then we actually put more data out and give them their

00:37:51.000 credit. The trustee, the governors, the trustees of Texas A&M, one of the most prestigious universities

00:37:57.400 in the US, actually took a decision that based on all of this evidence, that they will pull out of

00:38:03.240 Doha in Education City. So we've exposed what Qatar is doing. It's happening in Canada as well.

00:38:12.840 A lot of it is about ideology, but some of it is actually commissioning and getting the best

00:38:19.400 research done and then owning the IP. It's soft power.

00:38:24.440 Okay, just a quick aside, and then we'll move on. On that defense by the university, that's like saying,

00:38:28.920 well, I didn't go to the whorehouse because they sent someone over to my hotel room. 1.00

00:38:34.440 It's the same thing.

00:38:36.920 Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. That's what it is. And that's why a lot of these presidents from,

00:38:43.560 you must have seen all these congressional hearings, where a lot of presidents were asked,

00:38:49.560 are you receiving any money from the country government? And some of them said no. And some

00:38:54.040 of them said, oh, we'll have to get back on you. We don't know. We don't know the answer to that

00:38:57.480 question. And some of them said no. Well, they didn't really technically lie. They didn't go to

00:39:01.960 the whorehouse. They had the whore come to them. 1.00

00:39:05.800 Yeah. Unreal. Now, how should we feel about Qatar being so central to the peace talks? It's left me 0.99

00:39:14.840 uneasy from the beginning. But we were speaking with Professor Ben Meir from NYU, and he was singing the

00:39:26.200 praises of Qatar being involved, and a staunch ally of the United States, and a real player in the

00:39:32.680 region. I have my concerns. Because of the housing of Hamas for so long, because of the soft power that 0.94

00:39:44.360 you've been describing, with them being so vital to the peace process that's going on, does that raise

00:39:51.560 any red flags for you? I mean, I will say this. Sheikh Mohammed, the Prime Minister,

00:39:58.040 appears to have exerted good pressure to land us at a good spot. We'll see how long that lasts.

00:40:05.240 But do you have any concerns?

00:40:07.400 I have a lot of concerns, and I have some hope as well, by the way. It's not all doom and gloom.

00:40:11.960 My initial concerns are based on the following. We have to ask the question, why have Qatar been so 0.99

00:40:23.480 instrumental in being able to mediate this, what we hope is a long-term peace plan? And the reason is

00:40:33.240 that they are not only housing the Muslim Brotherhood, because let's not forget, Hamas said in their

00:40:38.840 charter, sorry, in their founding charter, we are a chapter, we are the Palestinian chapter of the

00:40:44.200 Muslim Brotherhood. So when we talk about Hamas, we can talk about the Muslim Brotherhood, because they

00:40:49.000 said we're part of the Muslim Brotherhood. They said it very clearly. Qatar has been instrumental because

00:40:56.360 they house them, they support them, the Hamas leaders who are billionaires, who clearly 0.80

00:41:04.280 take a commission from the billions of dollars that Qatar has given to Palestinians in Gaza over the

00:41:12.360 year, over the years. They house them, they support them, they fund them. They are the same ideology.

00:41:19.160 My question to Qatar is, and I think I kind of know some of the answers to this,

00:41:24.520 why haven't they been able to do this deal a year ago, or a year and a half ago?

00:41:28.360 Why are they so all of a sudden instrumental in being able to negotiate this deal, when this deal

00:41:38.520 or versions of this deal have actually been sitting on the table for over a year, and it's been rejected

00:41:43.160 by many people? You mentioned that to me earlier, before we were recording. This deal was there,

00:41:49.160 and nobody really talked about it, thought about it, looked at it.

00:41:52.520 Yeah, but the Biden administration didn't want to look at it. At the time, for whatever reason,

00:41:58.920 Bibi Netanyahu said no. I think that, and by the way, this deal, we're all saying that Qatar is 0.71

00:42:08.120 instrumental. Yes, they are. Why the instrumental? Because they brought their buddies to the table,

00:42:12.680 and the people that they fund, the people that listen to them to actually negotiate a deal with Israel,

00:42:18.760 with the US and Egypt and Turkey and other countries being there as well. But let's not

00:42:24.280 forget the other countries in the region as well. This deal is about Saudi Arabia, it's about the UAE,

00:42:31.480 it's about Jordan, it's about Egypt, it's about all of the other countries as well, who've been

00:42:36.760 wanting this deal for a long time. Qatar hasn't been able to persuade, or maybe they haven't even tried,

00:42:43.240 sorry, been able to persuade. Maybe they haven't even tried to persuade Hamas to actually agree to

00:42:51.160 all of these things. And if you look at Netanyahu, from his perspective, I don't think that what Yahya

00:42:58.520 Sinwar and the leaders of Hamas expected to be the result of October the 7th is what they've actually 0.64

00:43:03.800 ended up with. Through the actions of Israel in defending themselves, they've been able to decapitate 0.75

00:43:12.520 Hezbollah. They've taken out the nuclear threat from Iran for now. They've actually dealt with the Houthis, 0.85

00:43:19.480 Iraq, the proxies in Iraq have been quiet. There hasn't been an attack on Israel from Iraq for a long time.

00:43:27.240 So maybe he was waiting to actually clear the ground from some of the other potential strikes.

00:43:35.800 But Qatar really hasn't tried, I believe, to the fullest force over the last two years to get Hamas 0.98

00:43:43.640 to agree to releasing the hostages. And so one could argue, or one could ask the question,

00:43:51.080 is it partially Qatar's fault that the hostages haven't been released over the last two years,

00:43:57.800 sooner? Then I'll put the blame on another side, the Biden administration.

00:44:04.760 Look, I know this, because some of the work that I do, they weren't really interested either.

00:44:11.800 So why were they not interested?

00:44:14.760 I can't answer that question exactly. I can only give you my analysis. I think there was some

00:44:20.760 ideological influence within people at the administration that actually were very much in line

00:44:30.040 with the whole narrative of from the river to the sea. That's my analysis. I don't know the exact answer.

00:44:36.280 And I think there was some reluctance. And then there were some demands from Saudi Arabia as well. Because,

00:44:43.880 again, why did I ask myself the question? And I've been working in Saudi Arabia for the last four years

00:44:50.440 as part of some of the work that I do. I asked myself the question on October the 7th,

00:44:54.600 why now? Why has Hamas and PIJ, ordered and supported by Iran, why have they done 0.91

00:45:05.960 what they did now? Why didn't they do it before? And the reality of the situation was that there was a

00:45:11.720 broader deal that Saudi and others were considering with Israel for normalization. And what Saudi wanted

00:45:21.160 was very simple. They wanted from the US an enhanced deal to protect them at that time from Iran, 0.89

00:45:27.880 because they were worried about Iran. Secondly, they wanted supervised nuclear energy. And the third

00:45:34.440 thing, they just wanted a roadmap for some form of Palestinian self-determination. They weren't asking

00:45:41.960 for it right now. Like the peace plan, some form of road plan that if X happens and we can move on to

00:45:48.760 A, the Biden administration just wasn't interested. And I can't answer for sure the reasons why.

00:45:58.520 That's the theory, which is widely accepted, that Hamas launched the attack on October 7th to scupper

00:46:07.960 any attempts at normalization of relations between Saudi Arabia, Israel, and the West.

00:46:13.160 And this is my own personal analysis. I actually said it on the day. And evidence that I've seen and

00:46:23.160 sort of the build up to pre-October the 7th that I was partially involved in leads me to that assessment.

00:46:29.720 And for me, it's a very strong theory. Again, you know, the only people that can speak to exactly why

00:46:37.800 they did it are the people that did it. But why didn't Qatar, if they're so influential, which they

00:46:43.400 are with Hamas, their leaders sitting in Doha, why didn't they stop them?

00:46:47.560 I had scribbled down to ask you, are the Qataris ideologically aligned with Hamas? Professor Ben

00:46:56.920 Mir would say no, it sounds like you would say yes. The whole of the Qatari infrastructure, the

00:47:05.000 institutional infrastructure, and that which is manifested as one example of Al Jazeera, if you look

00:47:12.120 at what Al Jazeera is pumping out in Arabic, it's totally different to what they're pumping out in

00:47:17.080 English and the stuff they're pumping out in English is very much in line with the Muslim 1.00

00:47:21.080 Brotherhood Islamist ideology anyway. The Arabic stuff is actually even worse. Institutionally, 1.00

00:47:29.080 and this comes from the top, institutionally, the Muslim Brotherhood ideology is so intertwined

00:47:36.600 within the whole of the Qatari, the whole of Qatar, like it was at one time in Saudi Arabia,

00:47:44.440 I hasten to add, which it isn't now. At this moment in time, that hasn't changed. Yet. I'll say yet.

00:47:54.440 We saw Benjamin Netanyahu apologize to the Qatari government for his airstrike to try and take

00:48:04.440 out Hamas leadership there. But I have to ask, did that airstrike perhaps adjust the thinking

00:48:15.000 of the rulers in Doha?

00:48:16.440 Oh, absolutely. But it did more than that, Brian. So, you may recall that after the airstrike,

00:48:24.440 there was an emergency meeting of the Gulf coalition, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar,

00:48:32.760 and Egypt was involved. Pakistan, I think, was there. Turkey, I think, even though they're not Arab,

00:48:38.200 they were there. There was a big movement from some of the countries, including Egypt at the time, to try

00:48:45.720 and get the regional countries to form some form of NATO-type alliance, so that if there's an attack

00:48:52.520 on one, there's an attack on all of them. And Qatar was actually promoting that as well. They thought

00:48:57.880 they could turn up with Egypt, and Egypt would be part of the supplied forces. Turkey would be

00:49:05.160 another one that would supply their forces. The country, one of the countries that said no,

00:49:10.760 was Saudi Arabia. And they went away, and they signed this enhanced deal with Pakistan.

00:49:18.280 So, Saudi Arabia now, in effect, has a nuclear deterrent through Pakistan. So, all of a sudden,

00:49:24.520 Qatar was even more isolated than just the airstrikes. Secondly, if you look at all of the,

00:49:29.960 and I talked about the Texas A&M pullout from Doha City, there has been more of a focus,

00:49:38.040 and ISKAP has been at the forefront of this, on the soft power and their ideological support,

00:49:45.640 financially and otherwise, within the West, that they have been, the strikes has led to a catalyst

00:49:52.600 that has left them very, very isolated. And I think that Qatar were looking for a way out,

00:50:00.040 and the Americans then signed an even further enhanced deal with Qatar, because, yes,

00:50:06.680 they've got the military air force base there. 10,000, I think, American troops are there.

00:50:11.960 But now, it was signed a couple of weeks ago, I think, there was a deal signed where now the US has

00:50:18.840 said that an attack on Qatar, if there's an attack by anybody on Qatar, we will defend. And I believe,

00:50:24.520 as part of that negotiation, Qatar, feeling isolated, knowing that all of a sudden, you know, Israel could 0.67

00:50:32.440 bombers again, if they want to, and try to take out Hamas leaders or others, and the way that they took

00:50:39.400 out a lot of the senior military command within Iran, they found themselves boxed in, in a situation

00:50:48.600 that finally they said to the people that are their housing and their funding and their supporting,

00:50:54.280 you've got to do this deal. But I think we need to go further than this. It won't just stop. Because

00:50:59.880 my concerns are that until Qatar disavows and actually take steps to remove their support within

00:51:10.760 the country and outside of the country of the Muslim Brotherhood ideology, in the same way that Saudi

00:51:15.400 Arabia did, and the UAE did, even after this peace deal, we're going to have more problems in the

00:51:23.960 West, Canada, for example, than we will have within the Middle East.

00:51:29.000 So what we need is Qatar to find their own Mohammed bin Salman, who will say,

00:51:35.480 this is not a good path for us, we need to change.

00:51:38.440 And we need to change, and then implement the changes, because the changes that Mohammed bin, 0.68

00:51:44.920 the Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman has initiated and implemented within Saudi Arabia

00:51:51.160 have happened quickly. I mean, I first went, there was a time when I couldn't go to Saudi Arabia,

00:51:56.680 it wasn't really safe for me, I criticised, not the, not the, the ruling family, but their support

00:52:03.480 for Wahhabism and their support for Islamism on mainstream media, Sky, CNN, BBC, on many occasions,

00:52:11.000 it wasn't safe. Just during COVID lockdowns, I went, and had meetings with some very, very senior

00:52:19.480 people, and I looked them in the eye, and somebody, I won't say who, said to me, Harris, you've decided

00:52:26.600 to come to Saudi Arabia now and have these discussions with us, you've criticised us heavily in the past,

00:52:32.680 and you haven't been here for 15 years to perform Umrah or Hajj. Why did you accept this invitation now?

00:52:41.000 And I looked this person in straight in the eye, and I said, look, for decades, you have been one of

00:52:44.840 the main causes of the problems that we're facing in the West and around the world. I now want, I was

00:52:50.040 curious, I wanted to ask you directly, are you going to be part of the solution? And this person,

00:52:56.520 without hesitation, looked me straight in the eye and said, yes, we want to be, and yes, we have to be.

00:53:01.000 And I don't recognise, when I went during COVID lockdowns, I'd seen vast changes already. Women 1.00

00:53:07.640 could drive, the religious police, the morality police have been disbanded. Every year, every time

00:53:13.960 I go, and I sometimes go four or five times a year these days, I see something new. But the key thing is,

00:53:21.240 they have not only removed the Muslim Brotherhood ideology, they've also moved away from the

00:53:27.720 fundamentalist Wahhabist theology as well. Qatar needs to do the same. Until Qatar does that,

00:53:35.560 until Qatar disavows this ideology and the Wahhabist theology, there will always remain a problem. 0.71

00:53:41.880 And there will be peace in the region. There has to be peace in the region. Whether this peace plan

00:53:46.600 works or not, there will be peace. I really believe it, because there's an appetite for peace.

00:53:53.240 But this soft power funding of the Islamist ideology, and now Islamism beyond Islamists,

00:54:01.640 that's happening in Canada. And by the way, I think Canada is one of the worst 0.90

00:54:05.240 countries for this soft power. We have the jihadist terrorist attacks here in the UK,

00:54:09.560 but you have this infiltration, this entryism within Canada, far greater than we have in the UK.

00:54:14.600 And I say that as somebody who's been in Canada a lot over the last couple of years.

00:54:18.680 And you and I discussed that about 18 months ago on this podcast.

00:54:21.560 We did. We did. We did. We did. And it hasn't gotten better.

00:54:25.080 It hasn't gotten better. And this funding and this support for this ideology, for these proxies,

00:54:33.000 these aligned organizations, Muslim Brotherhood aligned organizations, who first of all persuaded

00:54:38.520 Muslims who are not Islamist within Canada, that we're the gatekeepers, we're the only ones that are 0.91

00:54:43.480 representing your interests. And secondly, have persuaded schools, they've persuaded governments,

00:54:51.080 they've persuaded the police, they've persuaded a whole bunch of other people,

00:54:54.040 hey, we are the authentic version of Islam. Until Qatar stops this support, continuous support,

00:55:02.120 where the people, Canada, the UK and the US, who are going to continue to have these problems.

00:55:07.800 Because the other side of this problem also, and we're starting to see it here in the UK,

00:55:12.520 is there's going to be a backlash. And the backlash is creating something, people are calling it far

00:55:18.520 right, but it's not far right. This ethno-nationalist, and sometimes Christian ethno-nationalist backlash,

00:55:25.560 so what's been happening more visibly over the last two years with the protests and the encampments,

00:55:30.520 etc. But it's actually been going on quietly for a long time. We're the ones that are going to have the problems,

00:55:37.000 and we need to deal with that. Qatar needs to do their bit, and we need to do our bit.

00:55:41.080 So, I'm hoping that Qatar now will, the pressure will continue, and people won't just say, 1.00

00:55:46.600 oh, Qatar, well done, you know, hurrah, hurrah. You've actually mediated and helped to do something

00:55:52.040 that you actually could have done a year and a half ago, had you really wanted to do.

00:55:56.920 But now that there's been an airstrike, and Saudi's gone their own way, and nobody wants 1.00

00:56:02.120 to set up a military force with you, and etc., etc., and you know, on your doorstep,

00:56:06.920 you've been bombed, and you've been exposed in the West to some extent.

00:56:12.200 They need to be, they need to stop doing that. We need to, they've got to realize that this

00:56:17.640 pressure, this pressure has to continue. They, because if that pressure stops,

00:56:22.280 it'll be business as usual in the West.

00:56:23.880 Haras, we could talk for hours, and that's what I appreciate about you. So,

00:56:29.400 Wise, very insightful. Thank you for your time today.

00:56:32.040 No, my pleasure, and thank you for having me on.

00:56:33.880 There you have it. Two very different viewpoints. They agree on some points, they disagree on others,

00:56:39.480 and I'm sure it would be a fascinating discussion to have them both, but we leave it to you. We leave

00:56:44.440 it to you to decide, to comment, to share this. Thanks for listening, and as always, do what you can to

00:56:50.520 spread the word? Full Comment is a post-media podcast. My name's Brian Lilly, your host.

00:56:55.320 This episode was produced by Andre Proulx, theme music by Bryce Hall. Kevin Libin is the executive

00:57:00.680 producer, and please help us out by posting this to social media, leaving us a rating or review,

00:57:06.600 and hitting the subscribe button. Thanks for listening. As always, I'm Brian Lilly.

00:57:11.160 Here's that clip from Canada did what? I promised you. 0.67

00:57:18.680 In the late 1960s, you have members of the Montreal police who can spend their entire shift rushing from

00:57:25.320 one FLQ bombing to another. Here's how New Year's Eve 1968 played out for Robert Coté, a member of

00:57:33.240 the Montreal police bomb squad, which put him at the forefront of fighting the FLQ during this period.

00:57:39.560 He was supposed to be at home with his wife, who had just miscarried twin daughters, but instead,

00:57:45.080 at 11pm, he's called out to Montreal City Hall to investigate a bomb that had just gone off.

00:57:50.840 He's en route with sirens blaring when he's told, actually, don't bother with the exploded bomb,

00:57:56.280 there's an unexploded bomb on the other side of City Hall you have to defuse.

00:58:01.640 And then, right after snipping the wires on the City Hall bomb, Coté has to speed west,

00:58:07.240 where a third bomb has just exploded outside a federal building.

00:58:12.360 The bombing started in April and May of 1963. That's when the first bombings took place.

00:58:18.760 And the mailbox bombings were the most famous part of the whole thing, 0.58

00:58:23.560 which was basically on the Thursday night and Friday night leading into the Victoria Day weekend

00:58:29.480 in 1963. And initially, they started attacking these symbols of federalism, federal institutions,

00:58:37.800 whether it was the Montreal Post Office or Revenue Canada. But the bombings escalated as time went on

00:58:44.440 in terms of the size of the bombs and the powerfulness of these bombs.

00:58:49.560 If you want to hear the rest of the story, make sure you subscribe to Canada Did What?

00:58:56.680 everywhere you get your podcasts.

Full Comment - October 13, 2025

How Qatar supports terrorists and still enjoys vast western influence

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