Lieutenant General Michel Mezeneuve is a retired Canadian general who served in the Royal Canadian Air Force, the Canadian Forces, and the Canadian Intelligence Service. He is also a professor at the Royal Military College in Saint-Jean-Baptiste, a professor of journalism at the University of Toronto, and a retired lieutenant general with the Canadian Foreign Legion. He was the 30th recipient of the VIMI Award, which is given every year by the Conference of Defence Associations Institute, a group that advocates for national defense for security.
00:01:11.800Asking that the military actually be uniform in how it operates.
00:01:15.860These are the things that can get you cancelled in 2022 in Canada.
00:01:20.240Hi, I'm Brian Lilly, columnist with Post Media and guest host this week for Full Comment.
00:01:26.180We're going to bring you the story of Lieutenant General Michel Mezeneuve, who a few weeks ago made news over a speech that, in my view, shouldn't be controversial at all.
00:01:35.780And yet, it is leading to cancel culture being enacted on him, one of the many things he warned about in his speech.
00:01:42.880Before we get to the general, though, I do want to take a moment for a bit of housekeeping and ask everyone listening now to make sure that you are hitting subscribe for our podcast or leaving a comment, sharing it on social media, or spreading the word in other ways.
00:01:57.960It helps get the word out, and it helps let people hear differing viewpoints like that of Lieutenant General Michel Mezeneuve, who joins me now.
00:02:06.760General, thank you very much for your time.
00:02:44.600Well, the award is called the VIMI Award.
00:02:47.100It's given every year, and I guess I was the 30th recipient.
00:02:50.540I'm very honored to have received this award, and it's for a lifetime of service and protection of our democratic values in Canada.
00:02:59.480And it's given, as I say, every year by the Conference of Defense Associations Institute, which is a large group of folks who advocate for national defense for security.
00:03:18.700This year, it was at the Museum of History in Getsemane.
00:03:20.820And it was a lovely gathering of about 600 people.
00:03:27.120And folks from, yes, serving people from the military, but also a lot of retired folks, some public servants, academics, a large community of folks there.
00:03:43.920And so I used the forum, the platform, as a way to express my views of where we stand today in Canada.
00:03:55.100One of the ideas that you put forward was service.
00:04:01.340Before we get into the depths of the speech and your ideas on cancel culture and woke journalism and many things that I know the listeners will want to hear about, tell me about your service.
00:04:14.240Because in your speech, you talk about how it is a family tradition for you, not just yourself, but your wife served.
00:04:34.740I was then, I was then, my last post was in Norfolk, Virginia, where we stood up the NATO's Allied Command transformation.
00:04:43.520It was a command meant to transform NATO from a static institution to being able to deploy and fight elsewhere.
00:04:54.260But yeah, I mean, service generally, I must say, is something that I believe very much in.
00:04:59.860Yes, I spent 35 years, and then I was asked to be the academic director or principal, if you wish, of the reopening of the Royal Military College in Saint-Jean in Quebec.
00:05:09.160So I spent 10 and a half more years there with, and when I left, we actually managed to get it back up to university level, which was, you know, I thought a great, a great thing for the armed forces and so on.
00:05:19.900So service, yes, my wife did serve 21 years in the Air Force.
00:05:27.460He's a petty officer, first class, and he's the coxswain of HMCS Moncton, a maritime coastal defense vessel.
00:05:35.340And my daughter is in the reserves as well.
00:05:37.380So we have, you know, we have a tradition.
00:05:39.860We have more than, I guess, when you put it all together, more than 85 to 90 years of service altogether.
00:05:46.840That is something that you alluded to this in your speech, so I'd like you to expand on it a bit, that we don't have a service of tradition in a culture that puts too much emphasis on me first.
00:06:02.740Well, I think today's society, a lot of today's society, and, you know, it's easy to generalize.
00:06:09.920There are so many great Canadians, and I think our society needs to put more emphasis on service.
00:06:16.680And it's one of the values, I think, that I won't say missing, but not emphasized enough.
00:06:22.600Service, volunteerism, giving to your country as opposed to taking or expecting from your country.
00:06:29.800And so, you know, that's kind of what I meant.
00:06:33.300And, you know, in today's society, there is a lot of, you know, it's all about me.
00:06:38.480And, you know, and so I, you know, I feel that we need to, and, you know, it starts from the top, and it starts by individuals.
00:06:45.480It starts by all of us trying to enhance our belief in service and actually to put our money where our mouth is and to actually serve in some capacity.
00:06:57.780So, you know, do you think that the military, do you think that the military and service in the military is held in high esteem at this point?
00:07:10.540And, you know, we wonder why, you know, the military and the chief of defense staff referred to the number of folks that are missing, and he's trying to recruit all these people.
00:07:17.700Well, we have to make the military, again, we, and we have to put it out there that it's a wonderful opportunity to serve your country.
00:07:27.780And it's a, it's an incredible calling and a passion and something that we should all aspire to.
00:07:33.580So, and it's a, look, just that's the philosophical view of the thing, but it's also a great career.
00:07:39.260I mean, you, right now you're well paid, you know, the military is trying to change its culture and, and by God, I give all kudos to, to General Air, you know, he's trying to, you know, get the, the culture changed in the military.
00:07:52.860But it's a great career and, and it's a place where you can demonstrate leadership, your initiative, and, and then retire with a great pension, you know, and it's, so it is a career.
00:08:05.460It should be a career of choice. It's just not seen that way. And of course, why not? So let's look at the, the reasons, you know, I mean, you could probably come up with as many as I can.
00:08:15.280Of course, you've heard all the, the, the, the military sexual trauma issues that are going on and it's, and I don't belittle those, you know, they're happening.
00:08:23.180A predator is a predator in the military or not. Everybody should be able to, you know, to serve with respect and have respect for others.
00:08:31.800So, and if they're not, I'm, I'm the first guy to say, let's mercilessly root them out, turf them, and let's make sure we change the culture to, to one of respect.
00:08:41.280So when people hear that, you know, of course it doesn't help recruiting. When people see that the military is underfunded, um, that doesn't help recruiting because of course, who wants to join an organization that's got old kit.
00:08:55.300And, and in my speech, I talked about the moral contract and the moral contract between the military who accept to go and serve in difficult locations to do those missions that we send them to do, to project Canadian values abroad, to fight our wars if we need to, if they need to, and they're prepared to give their life up for it.
00:09:14.680That's their part of the contract. Well, the other part of the contract ought to be that, that the Canadian society, Canadian government will actually ensure that those that go and do that,
00:09:25.160they will give them all the means necessary to do the job to the best of their ability.
00:09:29.040So what's that? Well, give them, you know, good kit, good equipment and up to date to give them the training, the education, the knowledge that they need for that, to, um, to ensure they're taken care of while they're serving and then to look after them when they come back.
00:09:46.320And right now that moral contract between, between Canadian society, the government, and the military is broken.
00:09:54.200I want to ask you about getting the right kit and spending the right amount, but you mentioned looking after them when they come back.
00:10:01.260I'm sure you've seen the headlines from my, my colleague, Brian Passifium at the National Post, writing about the horrifying stories of veterans, including one who was looking to transfer from active service to being a veteran, being offered medical assistance in dying.
00:10:21.220I think we're up to five different veterans that instead of giving them the services they need, we've offered them, you know, why don't you consider medical assistance in dying?
00:10:34.780Kudos to Minister Macaulay, who has referred it to the RCMP, um, launched an investigation, but that to me doesn't, uh, signify a country that wants to show respect for those who have served.
00:10:49.560It's a horrible situation and I, I, you know, it's almost unfathomable.
00:10:55.900I just, you know, and of course you may know, Brian, that I've been working with veterans now for more than 10 years, probably 12 years, something like that.
00:11:03.360I, I was, uh, on the, uh, the transition committee for St. Anne's hospital in Montreal that transitioned from a federal institution to a public, to a, to a provincial institution.
00:11:13.780Um, and there were a lot of problems, there was a, there were a lot of issues there, but I started working with veterans even before that, um, as part of the St. Anne's foundation.
00:11:23.780And so I've, and these veterans who were at the time when the hospital transferred, there were 305, uh, veterans from the world war II and, uh, Korea.
00:11:33.620So these guys average age was 95 and amazing people, men and women.
00:11:41.020I made so many friends and, and I, you know, did my best to represent them on this committee.
00:11:45.500So I know veterans and of course I also know, you know, younger veterans, new veterans who are friends of mine who are, you know, who I've served with and some that I haven't served with, but I've heard since the speech, by the way, we're all in great support.
00:11:59.780I, I think our veterans need support from veterans affairs, not just on policy, but they need support also on employees of veterans, veterans affairs who know veterans, who understand veterans.
00:12:17.660My good friend, um, Walter Natinchuk, when he was deputy minister, he brought something in, he, he called it care and compassion, respect, care and compassion.
00:12:25.940That's what the employees need to have.
00:12:28.220And he, he was kind of trying to change the culture also, but you have to understand veterans affairs is a public service department.
00:12:35.880So they have public servants in there who may not necessarily have any idea what a veteran is.
00:12:41.720They maybe get some training when they arrive.
00:12:43.800I don't know the point is that unless you actually, uh, can understand and, and feel for them, you it's hard to give them, you know, uh, the service.
00:12:55.140And I, I dare say a lot of, probably the employees of veterans affairs who are case managers, whoever are looking after veterans are probably overworked.
00:13:02.160Cause there's a lot of them and a lot of veterans have issues.
00:13:05.280I mean, they have, of course, physical issues.
00:13:07.680They have mental issues and, uh, you know, I'm lucky I came out relatively unscathed, I'm getting old.
00:13:13.540So I've got a lot of Bobo's that are hurting and so on.
00:13:16.740My mind is, is, uh, not as sharp as it was, but you know what?
00:13:20.400Uh, but a lot of our veterans need care, need compassion, need respect.
00:13:25.300And, and so, uh, so, you know, this, uh, medical aid in dying is, it was just a horrible thing.
00:13:32.960Getting to that point requires leadership.
00:13:35.480You spoke about leadership in your speech and that's part of what got you in trouble because you talked about leaders who you can't divide your people and then expect to lead them.
00:13:46.740Um, uh, you, you, you gave that example within a military context, but were you speaking about prime minister, Justin Trudeau at that point?
00:13:55.920Well, Brian, you know, if the hat fits as my dad used to say, you know, uh, but, but I would say to you that, uh, I, I can, I have my views.
00:14:06.720I think as long as I'm, and I'm not being hateful here, but about anybody, but what I was trying to say was that in a military context, if you divide people,
00:14:15.860you're never going to be able to, you know, it's the opposite of creating teamwork.
00:14:19.640One of my, I have four leadership principles.
00:14:25.160And what do you do when you're a leader while you communicate, you, uh, you try to create a team and how do you do that?
00:14:32.300Well, you know, people help each other, they are, they're tolerant of each other.
00:14:37.720Uh, they don't disrespect a certain group, you know, and this all applies to today in, in society, whether you're talking about, you know,
00:14:45.620a government, a corporation, and I gave those examples, a sports team, you know, you want to create unity and tolerance.
00:14:51.280And, and so, yeah, I, but I mean, I got in trouble for worse things before.
00:14:56.500General, one of the things that, um, you know, I've, I've, I've read the full speech.
00:15:02.040Um, I unfortunately was not there to hear it and have not heard, uh, or seen a video presentation of it, but.
00:15:10.180You didn't hear me singing then, Brian.
00:15:11.680No, no, I did not hear you singing Satchmo at the end, but I did see it was there.
00:15:16.220The, uh, you talked about unity, um, the uniform.
00:15:22.300You were critical of the military for, uh, making changes that will allow people to wear beards in the military, to dye their hair, all kinds of colors.
00:15:33.700That was put forward by some people as, well, you're being anti-trans.
00:15:41.060I read, read it as someone in the military, um, speaking up for the idea that you need unity and conformity in the military.
00:15:50.500I'm not going to, to claim to be a veteran, sir, a brief time as a reservist more than 30 years ago, but it gave me some insight into the military and being around family members who have been, um, serving over the last several decades gives me insight into it.
00:16:07.260You need unity and cohesion, and it seems like the military in response to cultural changes, political pressures is moving away from that.
00:16:56.200Well, that's making a huge leap and, and, uh, you know, it's completely ridiculous because I, you know, I believe anybody who wants to serve their country, I don't care their race and, uh, sex, gender, their, uh, their political affiliation, religion makes no difference.
00:17:12.380If you want to serve your country, you ought to be able to do it, first of all.
00:17:16.380And secondly, you ought to be able to do it with respect.
00:17:22.000So, and you know, when I say creating a team, I didn't say if it, you know, and women and men and everybody should have the same opportunity.
00:17:28.840So, but on the question of uniforms, what I was, the point I was trying to make was a uniform is the first thing that they try to give you when you're in recruit training to make you feel part of the team.
00:17:44.120They give you a uniform and everybody dresses this doesn't matter where you come from.
00:17:50.100You can come, you can be French, English, uh, you know, whatever origin, rich or poor, whatever, whatever sexual orientation you are, it makes no difference.
00:17:58.820They dress you the same so that you are uniform.
00:18:01.740To me, if you want to use methods of expressing your individuality, do it outside the uniform.
00:18:08.640So I'm not going to, you know, sit with you and say, okay, this one is wrong, that's wrong, that's right, that's wrong.
00:18:13.680But what I will tell you is there are some things that don't make a bit of difference.
00:18:54.120So his finger kind of grew to twice its size.
00:18:57.400He had to get the thing removed, you know, uh, and so, okay.
00:19:01.980So does that mean you should not be, yeah, it means you shouldn't be wearing jewelry when you're working on a tank.
00:19:07.640And so a lot of these, you know, the, the question of uniforms, I think should be looked at in, you know, you look at a sports like the national football league.
00:19:18.100They are very restrictive in terms of what a player can wear on the field because they're part of a team and they want them to look like they're part of a team.
00:19:26.340And so, so there are some things that I have issues with in, uh, in, uh, on uniforms.
00:19:31.960And as you said about beards, I don't think many people get that, that if you're wearing a beard, fitting a gas mask properly becomes much more difficult.
00:19:40.460Well, you know, exactly, but there is a, I think there's a rule that says if it, for operational reasons, you need to, to have a clean, be clean shaven, you know, that's, that's the rule that will come down.
00:19:51.660So, so there's some stuff that matters, but other stuff that doesn't matter and the stuff that doesn't matter fine.
00:19:57.420You know, just, but as long as the uniform remains a uniform and uniformity, I mean, you just look at the definition of what a uniform is, you know, it's a question of belonging, uh, of creating teamwork, of creating that, that cohesion that, that you want to have.
00:20:12.640And so, uh, you know, so that, and, and people took it, uh, Brian as, as me, you know, dish dissing, uh, general air.
00:20:25.200He's been through a lot of difficult moments and he's picked up the challenge and he's trying to, he's trying to change the forces culture at the same time as he's trying to recruit the forces to bring them back to up to the compliment that they should be.
00:20:42.760Uh, he's also, uh, he's also having to respond to operational requirements.
00:20:47.560Now the government is, you know, is, you know, bringing out new strategies, the Indo-Pacific strategy and so on.
00:20:54.580And, uh, but this stuff doesn't come with the necessary resources.
00:20:59.140So, you know, when we talk about, you know, being able to do all these things at once, the chief of defense staff has so much, you know, he has so much capacity.
00:21:07.980And so if the capacity is right now being used for something, he's going to have to pull it out of there to do something else.
00:21:26.780And when we come back, I want to read part of your speech for the audience to hear where you describe the great things that Canada has done.
00:21:34.940And, and you seem to be saying that we don't rise up to that level of greatness anymore.
00:21:40.320So we'll take a break now and, and get to that when we return.
00:21:56.080And you set up credit card transaction alerts, a secure VPN for a private connection, and continuous monitoring for our personal info on the dark web?
00:23:57.020However, I do think we have the potential to get there.
00:24:00.440We need, and you know, obviously the speech, the idea of the speech was to talk about what was required.
00:24:05.720I think what's required is leadership, service, tolerance, courage, unity, and I don't think we're there right now.
00:24:14.320I mean, and I look at the state of our country in the world, you know, in the world right now, are we the first place that, you know, that people will come to make an alliance?
00:24:30.840You know, is Canada pulling its weight in different places?
00:24:35.120I mean, you know, the thing that killed me, this, you know, the AUKUS arrangement there in the Pacific, you know, that Canada was not even consulted, was not even at the table.
00:24:47.060You know, that, I thought that was absolutely horrible.
00:24:51.840That's essentially, are you talking about the submarine purchases or the Five Eyes becoming three?
00:24:56.940Well, yes, that, and frankly, you know, and the way I see our country right now on the world stage, I think our priorities are in the wrong way, in the wrong place.
00:25:10.480We, you know, we have so much potential.
00:25:13.160Let's talk resources for one second, okay?
00:25:15.240We talk about climate change, and people will read my speech and think I'm a climate denier.
00:25:24.700But I don't think that it's man that's doing everything.
00:25:28.700So the question that I ask myself is, will we be able to stop climate change and to go back?
00:25:36.400Or should we more, and by the way, Canada produces, I mean, look at this, you know, you can find the statistics yourself, but apparently something like 1.6% of the greenhouse gases of the world.
00:25:49.960Okay, so instead of trying to be, you know, trying to be more, you know, I say Catholic than the Pope, I probably get in trouble for that too.
00:26:00.200But, you know, that we are, you know, that we're going to, you know, cut our emissions, which are only 1.6%, that we're going to, you know, we're not going to do any more development of fossil fuels.
00:26:11.400You know, and therefore we're going to kill our resource sector.
00:26:16.560Instead of using our resource sector to help those who are producing 20 and 30% of the greenhouse gases of the world to help them change from coal to gas, which is cleaner, and eventually to, you know, renewable energy.
00:26:35.520So we could be a leader from that point of view, and we're not.
00:26:39.620We're trying to lead by example with our 1.6%.
00:26:43.040And so the other thing is I believe that water is one of the greatest resources in the world.
00:26:49.600And Canada has more reserves of water, I think, than any nation except probably Russia.
00:26:54.700But we have to really protect our water.
00:26:57.380And that's an area we should be, you know, working on, you know, single-use plastics.
00:27:04.740And, but, you know, so the environment is more than climate change.
00:27:07.960As far as climate change goes, what we should be doing is developing mitigation ways because the climate is going to continue to change.
00:27:17.920But you also seem to be saying in your speech that we could be lowering the emissions in other countries by using our natural resources.
00:27:28.760Were you talking about using Canadian natural gas to replace coal plants in China and India and elsewhere, which is something that the current government doesn't seem to want to do?
00:27:39.360So they're happy to let others do that or, you know, continue to allow coal exports, but they don't want Canadian natural gas replacing coal in Asia.
00:27:50.020Well, that's, that's exactly the point I just made.
00:27:52.360It's absolutely exactly what we could be doing.
00:27:54.900And what a leadership role that would be.
00:27:56.980What an international leadership role that would make us, that would put us in.
00:28:01.960So, you know, and there are others who are experts in this stuff.
00:28:06.360I'm just a ordinary old armored guy, retired, and I'm looking at this and this is how I feel.
00:28:12.320So that, that, that was where my speech was going.
00:28:14.660It's just, I find that our, our leadership internationally could be enhanced by some of these measures and, and, you know, and also look our economy, you know, and I talked about courage and I find sometimes governments generally don't make, you know, they, they'll listen to a lot of the individual kind of special interests and so on.
00:28:35.780And as opposed to saying, well, here's a vision for Canada, here's where we could be, here's the potential we have.
00:28:41.380And then saying, and, and then, and then selling that to Canadians, you know, and something that's, you know, I'm not going to make this part of the country happy or that part of country happy.
00:28:51.420But for Canada itself, it's the best thing.
00:28:54.220So let's go sell it to those parts who will be unhappy, but maybe for the good of our country, coming back to service, to leadership, to tolerance, maybe that, you know, then our country will, will increase in stature and Canadians will be happy.
00:29:09.100We, look, we live in the best country in the world.
00:29:11.260And I, you know, I'm not, you know, I, I, I haven't lost faith in our country and our people.
00:29:17.180And, and so I think, I think we, we can do a better job.
00:29:22.940Immediately after the speech, you were criticized by members of the armed forces.
00:29:30.000Some, not all you got applause, definitely at the event.
00:29:56.080Yeah, it's a chronic pain center of excellence, which is a, a, an institution organization that does research on, on chronic pain for veterans and how to, to best manage it, to deal with it and to bring, bring hope and care to, to veterans.
00:30:13.540The other thing that the center does is it's creating a network of clinics across the country that are, where, where veterans can get, receive treatment.
00:30:24.000So, um, why did they ask you to step away then?
00:30:28.360Well, I mean, I think it's as a result of, uh, of my remarks and, uh, that's, I think some veterans contacted them and, and were, uh, were unhappy with some of the things I said, or at least extrapolated some of the things that I did not say, uh, or took, you know, a meaning from something I might've said.
00:30:45.640So they asked me, and I think it was, it was creating, uh, you know, a little bit of, uh, a little bit of, uh, you know, hoopla.
00:30:55.500And, uh, and so, yeah, so they asked me to resign.
00:30:58.060And of course the, the mission is what's important here, Brian, and the mission of the center is more important than me or my service on that, on that center.
00:31:06.100So I, I resigned, uh, because they asked me, uh, I'm not happy about it.
00:31:12.760And I thought I, I could have been, uh, you know, there, there were other ways to deal with this, but I, uh, you know, because I, as I say to people, I spent 50 years protecting freedom of speech and I was using my platform to, to give some ideas that I have.
00:31:27.220They're on my own, they're my own ideas.
00:31:29.800They're not the center of excellence's ideas.
00:31:32.280Uh, but you know, they have, as I said, off this, off the top though, general, your speech was maybe not for everybody, but to me, there was nothing offensive in it.
00:31:42.000And yet we've got professor Juno at university of Ottawa, um, saying that the speech was an embarrassment and a good illustration of the culture of entitlement that has led to systemic abuses of power in the senior ranks of the military.
00:31:57.220Colonel Rob Kearney, someone I've never heard of before, um, said the gala was sullied with arrogance, entitlement, and not in keeping with the humility and spirit of the event.
00:32:08.880Minister Anand, um, said that she expects military personnel to uphold Canadian values, which to me implies that she doesn't think your speech did.
00:32:19.200And, and, and, and Yuri Cormier, uh, who is the executive director of the conference of defense associations, um, he said that, uh, your remarks do not reflect those of the CDA Institute.
00:32:39.040Did, did people express disappointment on the evening?
00:32:43.600Um, where did this backlash come from?
00:32:46.480Well, I don't know, and of course, you know, I talk about free speech, they're all entitled to their ideas and their opinions and thank you for them.
00:32:55.060But as I used to do in my, uh, in my military career, I would often listen to everybody's opinion and then thank them for it and then make my own decision based on what I, you know, what I thought was the right thing to do.
00:33:06.240Um, where does the backlash come from?
00:33:10.240And, and some of these people that you talk about, uh, you know, um, are fun or good ones to talk about, uh, about me being entitled and so on.
00:33:18.700And I, you know, and I don't know where they get that from the, you know, from, from the, uh, from the remarks.
00:33:24.700But, uh, but I, uh, you know, I, I have received, I will tell you, Brian, I've received two people who've reached out to me to say, you know, crazy people.
00:33:34.800So they said, you know, go beat up your wife and things like this.
00:33:37.660All the rest of the hundreds of people who've reached out to me, folks, have all been positive.
00:33:43.960One wrote me and said, I agree with 80% of what you said.
00:33:48.260Here's what I don't agree with and here's why.
00:33:51.360And, you know, what I wanted to do was create a dialogue, a respectful dialogue with some of these issues that are important for our country that we need to put on the table and discuss in a respectful manner.
00:34:03.880And you come back to, nobody's written me and said, you know, here's, I disagree entirely with your speech and here's why.
00:34:09.820I'd be happy to write them back and say, okay, thank you for, you know, for that.
00:34:14.000And here's my kind of, here's my opinion on this and let's continue to have discussion.
00:34:44.800So, you know, it's, it's very interesting to, to hear all this backlash now, but again, they're entitled to their opinion.
00:34:51.380I was not trying to make everybody happy on the other hand.
00:34:54.720Uh, on the contrary, I was trying to actually raise issues that would force people to think about those issues and say, well, I don't agree with him.
00:35:01.980Um, or geez, you know, first time I've heard that and I, it's kind of true, isn't it?
00:35:35.500Um, look, I've been in the media business a long time, but you highlighted something that, uh, has driven me bonkers over the past several years.
00:36:13.100Well, I, you know, I, and I don't want to paint again, everybody, you know, every young person as, uh, you know, poorly informed.
00:36:21.100But what I was trying to say was the difference, the, the, the line between an, an opinion and a report, uh, that comes in is, is kind of blurred now.
00:36:31.120And the way you report, you can, you know, they're reporting now kind of left-leaning, right-leaning sometimes, you know, and they don't give the whole, you know, all sides of an issue.
00:36:40.840And so that, you know, I, I, just the facts, you know, and, uh, and in your case as an opinion writer, well, that's a different story.
00:36:49.620Again, people may agree, they may not.
00:36:51.560That's what I was doing with my speech.
00:36:53.060So, so there's a lot of that, uh, that goes on, I mean, and you know, the one thing we didn't talk about was, uh, indigenous issues and people have come back to me and said that, you know, here I was standing under these totems, totem poles, fantastic, spectacular totem poles and, and, uh, talking about how, uh, you know, how, uh, we shouldn't apologize anymore.
00:37:13.260And I guess all, all I was, would say about that and, and, uh, I believe apologies are important and they've been made.
00:37:20.000Now we need to show some action and we need to, for example, one of the things I cannot believe is that our country, not every community, indigenous or whatever, has clean water.
00:37:31.620Brian, I would think that's the simplest thing to fix.
00:37:34.040And would that give, would that show our indigenous, our first nations people that we care, you know, a lot more than sometimes the virtue signaling that, that, that happens, you know?
00:37:43.520So I wanted to get that out there before we finish.
00:37:46.240So, uh, no, understood. And I've heard from people in living in, in indigenous communities who, who said they would prefer action over words as well.
00:37:55.960Absolutely. And I, and I respect, uh, the first nations I tell you.
00:37:59.540All right. Lieutenant general, Michelle Mezenov, thank you for your time. Thank you for your service today.
00:38:05.040Thank you, Brian. Thanks very much. All the best.
00:38:07.400Full comment is a post media podcast. My name's Brian Lilly guest host this week.
00:38:11.400The episode was produced by Andre Proulx. The theme music is by Bryce Hall.
00:38:16.120Kevin Libin is the executive producer. Remember, you can subscribe to full comment on Apple podcasts, Google, Spotify, and Amazon music.
00:38:24.500You can listen through the app or your Alexa enabled devices, and you can help us out by giving us a rating or leaving a review and make sure you tell your friends about us.
00:38:33.780Share it on social media. My name's Brian Lilly. Thanks for listening.