Full Comment - May 12, 2025


It’s not just Alberta flirting with western separatism now


Episode Stats

Length

47 minutes

Words per Minute

173.08101

Word Count

8,146

Sentence Count

335

Misogynist Sentences

7

Hate Speech Sentences

11


Summary

In this episode, we take a look at the challenges facing Canada, from the perspective of Western Canada, and Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's recent trip to Washington, D.C. to meet with the Prime Minister's Council of Advisors.


Transcript

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00:00:55.380 When I found out my friend got a great deal on a wool coat from Winners,
00:01:01.720 I started wondering, is every fabulous item I see from Winners?
00:01:06.780 Like that woman over there with the designer jeans.
00:01:09.480 Are those from Winners?
00:01:11.000 Ooh, or those beautiful gold earrings.
00:01:13.460 Did she pay full price?
00:01:14.820 Or that leather tote?
00:01:15.820 Or that cashmere sweater?
00:01:17.020 Or those knee-high boots?
00:01:18.460 That dress?
00:01:19.280 That jacket?
00:01:19.840 Those shoes?
00:01:20.800 Is anyone paying full price for anything?
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00:01:31.260 Is there a chance that Canada could break apart?
00:01:34.000 I'm not sure we're at that point yet, but warning signs are on the horizon.
00:01:38.460 You could say that the country's check engine light is flashing bright red.
00:01:42.580 This time, the real problem isn't Quebec.
00:01:44.620 It's Western Canada.
00:01:45.820 Yes, Alberta, but more than just Alberta.
00:01:48.080 Hello, and welcome to the Full Comment Podcast.
00:01:50.520 My name's Brian Lilly, your host.
00:01:52.020 And today, a look at national unity from a Western perspective.
00:01:56.680 We just had an election that returned to Liberal government,
00:01:59.260 albeit with a new leader and Prime Minister at the helm.
00:02:02.520 As Mark Carney will gladly and frequently tell you,
00:02:05.480 he was born in the Northwest Territories, raised in Edmonton, Alberta.
00:02:09.240 He loves showing off his Oilers jersey and views himself as a Westerner.
00:02:13.600 But a desire to separate after this latest Liberal win has been on the rise.
00:02:18.080 An Angus Reid poll taken before the election showed 30% in Alberta and 33% in Saskatchewan
00:02:24.780 would want to make their province independent if the Kearney Liberals won.
00:02:28.840 Alberta Premier Danielle Smith recently introduced legislation to make it easier for
00:02:33.160 citizen initiatives to take place, which could include a referendum on separation.
00:02:38.640 We're at a crossroads.
00:02:39.900 How we address these problems before us will determine the future of Canada.
00:02:44.280 On this podcast, you will hear from my conversations with Premier Smith,
00:02:48.620 with Dan Arnold, a Calgary native and Liberal, former senior staffer in the Trudeau PMO,
00:02:53.180 and from Preston Manning about how we can address these issues, how we should address them.
00:02:58.360 First up, Premier Smith, who I interviewed after the First Minister's meeting that took place last Wednesday,
00:03:03.640 day after Prime Minister Carney went to Washington.
00:03:06.180 I asked the Premier to explain for Canadians and the rest of the country,
00:03:10.600 while people in Western Canada, Alberta in particular, are feeling the way they do, neglected by the East.
00:03:16.860 Well, maybe the best way to describe it is for people to examine how scared and fearful they are
00:03:22.860 that Donald Trump will crush their economy.
00:03:25.700 That's how scared and fearful Albertans are that the Liberals will continue to crush our economy.
00:03:29.860 All of the damage that we have seen over the last 10 years, most of it has come from bad federal policy,
00:03:36.980 coming out of the alliance between the Liberals and the NDs to target our industry
00:03:40.940 and to put in punitive policies that are designed to keep our oil and gas in the ground.
00:03:45.960 That is how, maybe that's the best way to understand the feelings Albertans have right now.
00:03:51.020 No, I'm feeling very hopeful.
00:03:53.520 I think I've said before that I don't know if we've got Conservative banker Mark Carney,
00:03:59.240 who is our Prime Minister, or whether we've got a Net Zero Advisory Council to Justin Trudeau.
00:04:06.020 Mark Carney is our Prime Minister.
00:04:07.780 But I want to see which one that is.
00:04:10.540 And I do think that if we can find a pragmatic path forward,
00:04:14.180 then it's going to be, it's going to work for Canada and it's going to work for Alberta.
00:04:17.620 That's interesting that she spoke about Prime Minister Carney in a positive way.
00:04:21.240 She hasn't been shy about being critical.
00:04:23.380 And in fact, she was positive more than once during the interview about Carney,
00:04:27.500 including telling me that when she presented him with her list of demands,
00:04:31.520 he didn't say no right away.
00:04:32.940 What I will say is we've had a conversation, and I'm hoping to have many more,
00:04:37.380 where I put those nine issues on the table and he didn't say no to any of them.
00:04:41.100 Didn't say yes, I'm going to address them all.
00:04:42.740 But the fact that his first reaction was not no says to me that we have some common ground to start on.
00:04:48.560 I've seen Doug Ford very vocally and in public talk about the importance of changing the regulatory process under C-69
00:04:56.120 so we can get things built.
00:04:57.720 And that applies as much to Ring of Fire mining projects as it does to pipelines.
00:05:02.280 I've been grateful to see that level of support from the Chair of our Council of the Federation.
00:05:07.360 And so I think he's getting the message from a number of different voices,
00:05:11.060 not just mine, not just the energy industry, but also other premiers,
00:05:15.280 that this is a rare moment where the nation is united.
00:05:19.160 We realize the threat to our sovereignty that comes from the Americans
00:05:23.240 because we haven't worked as well together in the past.
00:05:25.920 And let's seize this moment to actually act like a nation and support each other.
00:05:30.160 I think that that is a very strong sentiment at the first minister's table,
00:05:34.500 and I think that he's getting that message from a lot of different viewpoints.
00:05:37.500 Let's admit off the top that the bar is pretty low following Justin Trudeau,
00:05:41.420 but Premier Smith does appear optimistic.
00:05:44.520 That's a good thing, I think.
00:05:46.560 The premiers will meet with Prime Minister Carney at the beginning of June,
00:05:49.680 not in Ottawa, as normally happens, but symbolically in Western Canada.
00:05:54.280 In Saskatoon, June 1st and 2nd.
00:05:56.440 We'll see at that point if Carney is still just mouthing nice words,
00:05:59.640 or if he's actually delivered something concrete, or is moving in that direction at least.
00:06:04.160 In addition to talking to Premier Smith, I wanted to get a liberal perspective on Alberta.
00:06:09.220 They are the party in charge federally after all,
00:06:11.840 and there are liberals in and from Western Canada.
00:06:15.160 Dan Arnold, who goes by the handle Calgary Grit on X,
00:06:18.680 is a proud Albertan and a proud liberal.
00:06:21.140 He spent several years running the polling for Justin Trudeau,
00:06:24.340 including many of those years in the Prime Minister's office.
00:06:27.260 I wanted his view on how the new liberal government could handle this issue better.
00:06:32.440 So, Dan, I'd like to get your thoughts on where we are right now.
00:06:38.200 I don't think that we've got a Western separatist movement
00:06:42.640 that is suddenly going to blow the barn doors off of Canada,
00:06:46.460 but we have seen an increase in sentiment.
00:06:48.320 We saw the Angus Reid poll that was out before the election
00:06:51.300 showing that 33% of people in Saskatchewan would vote for their province to become independent
00:06:59.180 if the Kearney Liberals won.
00:07:01.100 We saw the 30% in Alberta say the same thing.
00:07:06.440 National unity is not just a Quebec issue anymore.
00:07:12.400 If this is allowed to fester, we could end up in a pretty bad spot.
00:07:17.440 Yeah, I'd agree with that.
00:07:18.760 I don't think we're in a position where there's going to be a yes vote.
00:07:22.680 It doesn't feel like the winning conditions are there,
00:07:24.260 to take a phrase that Jacques Perrazo used to use.
00:07:26.880 Quebec came very close to a yes vote,
00:07:29.520 but that was on the heels of Meech and Charlottetown and a lot of unrest,
00:07:33.580 whereas at this moment right now,
00:07:35.900 Canada is all together against the U.S.,
00:07:38.800 and there's a bit of almost a nationalism boost that's happening right now
00:07:42.500 given everything that's going on south of the border.
00:07:44.140 So it doesn't feel like this is a moment where the conditions are there
00:07:48.360 for a successful yes vote in Saskatchewan or Alberta,
00:07:52.200 but it's fair to say that there's been a lot of resentment,
00:07:55.620 a lot of frustration bubbling through the surface for a long time out west.
00:08:00.860 Polaro does regular tracking on how Western Canadians feel
00:08:04.020 about their place in the federation,
00:08:07.020 and yes, support for separation is usually pretty low.
00:08:09.140 It's usually around 20% when we pull on the question,
00:08:11.000 but it's only about a third of Albertans who feel they're treated fairly
00:08:13.760 by the federal government.
00:08:14.840 So there is a sense that a lot of people feel like they're treated unfairly,
00:08:17.860 and I think that creates the level of frustration.
00:08:20.380 And if it gets stoked because of things the premier is doing,
00:08:23.340 because of referendums,
00:08:24.280 because of what the federal government does or doesn't do,
00:08:26.900 certainly that frustration could turn into something
00:08:29.100 a lot more dramatic in the long run.
00:08:32.660 Some of my colleagues in the commentariat class
00:08:35.160 are outright dismissive of this idea.
00:08:38.940 Some have mocked it.
00:08:40.240 I don't think that is the way to go,
00:08:42.720 and I don't think, I'll say this up front,
00:08:44.520 I don't think that is the attitude that Prime Minister Carney has taken.
00:08:47.780 In fact, I think it's a bold move and an interesting one
00:08:51.040 that he decided to host the first minister's meeting in Saskatoon.
00:08:54.680 Instead of saying, all right, all you peasants come to Ottawa,
00:08:57.560 he's going to them.
00:08:59.000 I think that that is a good move.
00:09:00.780 But what are the steps, the overtures, the olive branches
00:09:05.060 that this new government could extend to places like Alberta and Saskatchewan
00:09:10.420 to try and turn things around to lower the temperature?
00:09:13.920 Yeah, I've lived in Alberta for many years.
00:09:19.300 I've done a lot of research there.
00:09:21.080 My sense is that the move for separatism there
00:09:25.580 is not driven by a sense of necessarily unique culture or identity
00:09:29.200 the way that the move is in Quebec.
00:09:30.640 It's more stemming from a sense of people feeling alienated,
00:09:34.540 feeling like they're overlooked, like they're not listened to,
00:09:37.640 maybe even treated somewhat as second class
00:09:40.300 compared to people in other parts of the country.
00:09:42.020 So I think the antidote to that is a first step is just listening, right,
00:09:47.960 and spending time there showing that you are taking people seriously,
00:09:51.260 that you are listening to their concerns,
00:09:53.060 which is why I think doing things like having a first minister's meeting out west is good.
00:09:58.780 Certainly, Mark Carney, it sounds like his first call with Premier Smith
00:10:02.200 was positive on both sides.
00:10:04.340 I mean, she was still out two days later with her demands,
00:10:07.080 but nevertheless, she did say the call was positive.
00:10:08.860 And, you know, she was positive with me about the virtual first minister's meeting
00:10:14.620 after the White House visit and saying nice things about Mark Carney.
00:10:19.880 I mean, it wasn't just Doug Ford, it was Danielle Smith as well.
00:10:22.960 That's, I think, surprising a lot of people.
00:10:25.300 The first step is listening,
00:10:26.740 and I think Mark Carney seems to have that attitude, right?
00:10:31.720 He seems like he wants to listen.
00:10:32.880 And look, he's from Alberta, which is an interesting dynamic as well, too.
00:10:35.680 You know, I think in this situation of Trudeau as prime minister,
00:10:40.240 it will be harder to lower the temperature
00:10:42.080 because the Trudeau name carries a lot of baggage with it,
00:10:44.880 whereas Carney is somebody who has lived in Edmonton for a long time.
00:10:49.840 You know, it seems like somebody who maybe is better positioned
00:10:52.560 to show that understanding of Alberta
00:10:55.640 and, you know, maybe is the right person to lower the temperature at this moment.
00:10:59.140 Anything concrete other than in two months' time
00:11:03.080 showing up in Calgary in jeans and a silly hat?
00:11:07.420 And I'm sure he'll wear the Oilers jersey a few times
00:11:10.020 between now and then, too, as the playoffs go along.
00:11:13.660 He is an Oilers fan.
00:11:15.140 You know, absolutely he's an Oilers fan.
00:11:16.940 He's not just jumping on the bandwagon.
00:11:19.880 I'll cheer for the Oilers until they're facing off
00:11:21.860 against the Leafs in the Stanley Cup final.
00:11:23.460 Yeah, but beyond wardrobe that he's wearing,
00:11:27.620 yeah, what can he do at this stage?
00:11:29.120 I think, look...
00:11:29.640 So is there a way to open things up on the oil and gas sector?
00:11:33.920 I know he's been Mr. Net Zero in the past.
00:11:37.280 He kind of gave conflicting messages
00:11:39.200 to Western Canada and Quebec on that,
00:11:42.200 but is there a way for him to make a move
00:11:46.320 for the oil and gas sector
00:11:48.300 without losing the progressive coalition
00:11:51.260 that helped him win the election?
00:11:54.200 Well, I mean, that's the great challenge
00:11:55.480 that all prime ministers face
00:11:57.180 is those regional divisions.
00:11:59.340 And nowhere is that division more apparent
00:12:02.520 than when it gets to issues around environment
00:12:04.240 and the energy sector.
00:12:05.960 I think in most issues,
00:12:07.060 when you ask about healthcare,
00:12:08.500 you know, people don't feel that differently
00:12:09.660 in Alberta from Quebec.
00:12:10.560 When you ask about housing and cost of living,
00:12:13.280 like, it's easy to get consensus.
00:12:14.900 It's less easier to get consensus
00:12:16.140 on some of these other files.
00:12:17.960 Where there does seem to be some opening
00:12:19.860 is where Carney's talked about,
00:12:21.520 you know, energy corridors
00:12:22.600 and, you know, helping resources get to market.
00:12:26.020 He's certainly not anti-development.
00:12:28.320 He's not a keep the oil on the ground type of guy
00:12:30.440 from comments he's made before.
00:12:31.780 So I think there'll be some openness there.
00:12:34.220 But I think if we're being honest about it,
00:12:35.780 if you look at the full list of demands
00:12:37.620 that Daniel Smith put on the table,
00:12:38.940 he's not going to agree to all those things there.
00:12:40.460 He's not going to repeal the clean energy regulations.
00:12:42.160 He's not going to move away
00:12:43.580 from some of the net zero mandates.
00:12:45.400 So, you know, she's never going to get
00:12:47.480 everything she wants.
00:12:48.640 But I suspect there'll be some areas
00:12:50.440 where Carney might,
00:12:52.480 from his kind of pro-business perspective,
00:12:54.240 do some things that she might be happy about.
00:12:56.940 It might help lower the temperature a little bit.
00:12:59.260 The one thing that I've been hearing
00:13:00.960 from several premiers that I've spoken to
00:13:04.220 on the record and off
00:13:05.580 is that it is a very different tone.
00:13:08.000 The meetings don't begin with a lecture
00:13:10.180 from the prime minister anymore.
00:13:11.440 They begin with listening.
00:13:14.440 And so, you know, even politicians
00:13:16.540 that had a good relationship
00:13:17.900 with Prime Minister Trudeau
00:13:20.300 when he was in office
00:13:21.440 just feel better about the meetings now.
00:13:24.360 So that is a good thing.
00:13:25.980 You do a lot of deep dives
00:13:28.260 and your ex-feed was fantastic post-election
00:13:33.420 for trying to figure out a bit of
00:13:35.680 where things had moved.
00:13:38.420 For a little while,
00:13:39.400 it looked like the Liberals,
00:13:41.480 you know, there was talk
00:13:42.140 they could take five.
00:13:43.340 Some, I heard some people mistakenly say,
00:13:45.900 oh, they could get as many
00:13:46.680 as nine seats in Alberta.
00:13:48.140 I always thought that was crazy.
00:13:49.320 They did take one in Saskatchewan
00:13:51.280 that they didn't hold previously,
00:13:52.540 but they were kept to two in Alberta.
00:13:57.020 Did you do any deep dive
00:13:58.360 into how close they were
00:13:59.640 to taking more seats in that province?
00:14:02.220 Because with the expansion,
00:14:03.820 with more urban seats,
00:14:04.980 there is that potential.
00:14:06.360 Did they come close at all?
00:14:07.780 Or was that just pipe dreaming
00:14:10.120 that the people were engaged in
00:14:11.840 prior to the vote?
00:14:14.140 So the Liberal vote share
00:14:15.880 went up a lot
00:14:17.260 in both Saskatchewan and Alberta.
00:14:20.020 And, you know,
00:14:20.520 one of the things I did to comment on
00:14:21.660 was the writings of the Liberals
00:14:22.980 had their biggest gains
00:14:24.440 from 2021 to 2025.
00:14:26.380 I think three of the top five
00:14:27.520 were in Saskatchewan.
00:14:28.820 Saskatchewan University,
00:14:29.940 Regina Luvan were up there.
00:14:31.680 So, you know,
00:14:32.100 the Liberals,
00:14:32.520 they took a big step forward.
00:14:33.820 They got a lot more votes this election
00:14:35.060 in both provinces
00:14:35.780 than they did before.
00:14:36.920 It just didn't really translate
00:14:38.440 to seats at the end of the day.
00:14:40.080 I think they probably
00:14:40.580 would have needed
00:14:40.940 another five or ten points
00:14:42.220 of support
00:14:42.700 to actually turn that into seats.
00:14:44.880 You know,
00:14:45.080 the challenge is really
00:14:45.780 they just kind of ate up
00:14:46.760 the NDP vote
00:14:47.500 in Alberta and Saskatchewan.
00:14:49.080 And they actually need
00:14:50.140 to convert
00:14:50.880 some of those Conservative voters
00:14:52.160 into their side
00:14:53.800 to actually have a chance
00:14:54.760 to win more seats there.
00:14:56.240 Kind of the reverse
00:14:56.820 of the Conservatives in Ontario.
00:14:59.300 Yeah,
00:14:59.560 with the collapse of the PPC,
00:15:01.200 but, you know,
00:15:01.660 other votes don't go there.
00:15:02.700 So, yeah,
00:15:03.540 I think the Liberal brand
00:15:05.060 feels less toxic as a brand
00:15:06.860 now than it did
00:15:07.460 a couple of years ago.
00:15:08.440 Just if you look at the share
00:15:09.760 of the popular vote,
00:15:11.000 even if it didn't turn into seats,
00:15:12.340 and maybe that helps Carney
00:15:13.260 a little bit.
00:15:14.300 You know,
00:15:14.420 he's not,
00:15:15.140 his personal brand numbers,
00:15:16.820 if you ask,
00:15:17.380 are you favourable
00:15:17.860 or unfavourable
00:15:18.360 towards Mark Carney,
00:15:19.180 aren't terrible in Alberta
00:15:20.240 right now.
00:15:20.700 And that could obviously change
00:15:21.600 in a couple of years.
00:15:22.420 But I think he goes into it
00:15:23.980 as not the big bad in Ottawa,
00:15:25.960 which is often the case.
00:15:27.340 And, you know,
00:15:27.960 it's harder for Daniel Smith
00:15:29.180 to kind of hold him up
00:15:30.080 as this villain in the story,
00:15:32.140 at least until he does something
00:15:34.080 that maybe looks villainous,
00:15:35.400 right?
00:15:35.740 People are willing to give him
00:15:36.400 the benefit of the doubt,
00:15:37.200 even if they didn't vote for him.
00:15:38.600 And I think that,
00:15:39.480 that augurs well
00:15:40.580 for perhaps maybe having
00:15:41.680 some ability to work together
00:15:43.460 on some files between,
00:15:44.560 you know,
00:15:45.280 Carney and Moe and Smith.
00:15:46.640 Well,
00:15:47.080 as I said in my column
00:15:48.700 in the Toronto Sun
00:15:49.420 just a little while ago,
00:15:50.660 he's making the right noises.
00:15:52.500 By the time the
00:15:53.260 First Minister's meeting
00:15:54.400 happens at the beginning of June,
00:15:56.480 we'll know whether those noises
00:15:57.880 are just noise
00:15:58.920 or moving in a
00:16:00.400 serious policy direction.
00:16:03.140 Yeah,
00:16:03.600 I think that's right.
00:16:03.980 The first step is
00:16:04.960 it's symbolism.
00:16:06.060 It is listening.
00:16:07.320 The biggest frustration
00:16:09.200 point people have
00:16:09.940 is they don't feel listened to
00:16:10.900 often in Alberta and Saskatchewan.
00:16:12.520 So I think listening
00:16:13.080 is actually a tangible thing to do.
00:16:15.620 We'll see what happens
00:16:16.400 with cabinet appointments.
00:16:17.260 If there is a representative
00:16:18.740 from Alberta or Saskatchewan
00:16:20.280 in cabinet,
00:16:20.720 that could also give another voice
00:16:21.980 that could speak
00:16:22.600 with a bit more authority
00:16:23.760 on these issues.
00:16:25.260 But yeah,
00:16:25.860 eventually it's going to be
00:16:26.900 more about actually outcomes
00:16:28.620 as opposed to conversations.
00:16:31.180 And that's where I think
00:16:32.760 there will be more difficulty
00:16:34.160 because he's not going to do
00:16:35.620 everything Daniel Smith
00:16:36.420 wants to do.
00:16:37.540 A lot of the things
00:16:38.220 she wants to do
00:16:38.780 just are not broadly supported
00:16:40.640 by people nationally.
00:16:41.600 So it's going to be hard
00:16:42.260 for Carney to go along
00:16:43.180 with everything.
00:16:43.780 But I would be hopeful
00:16:44.900 there will be some areas
00:16:45.740 where he can make some moves
00:16:48.740 that will be well received
00:16:49.500 in Alberta.
00:16:49.960 And hopefully that lowers
00:16:50.540 the temperature to the point
00:16:51.480 where there isn't actually
00:16:52.440 a referendum.
00:16:53.600 Because I think the actual
00:16:54.180 nature of having a referendum
00:16:55.740 would really heat this issue
00:16:57.800 up even further.
00:16:59.500 It may not pass,
00:17:00.760 but it would be a very
00:17:02.160 potentially divisive moment
00:17:05.280 in Alberta and nationally
00:17:06.500 if it got to that point.
00:17:07.960 All right, Dan Arnold,
00:17:08.900 thanks so much.
00:17:10.340 Thanks for having me.
00:17:11.280 Finally, Preston Manning,
00:17:12.760 the man,
00:17:13.660 the force behind
00:17:14.460 the Reform Party,
00:17:15.340 which went from
00:17:15.880 a protest movement
00:17:16.760 to a fringe political party
00:17:18.240 to the official opposition
00:17:19.900 in short order
00:17:21.120 in the 1990s.
00:17:22.560 He's still politically involved.
00:17:24.200 He's still concerned
00:17:25.120 about Western Canada
00:17:26.140 and how they're being treated.
00:17:27.880 And he has some thoughts
00:17:28.880 on what should happen next.
00:17:30.880 Well, Mr. Manning,
00:17:32.040 you popularized the phrase
00:17:34.500 the West wants in
00:17:35.460 when you were leading
00:17:36.140 Reform Party
00:17:37.060 a long time ago.
00:17:40.340 Is that still what's going on
00:17:42.000 or does the West want out now?
00:17:44.640 Well, I think that question
00:17:46.100 is being raised.
00:17:47.440 I don't think it's been answered yet,
00:17:49.040 but there's a lot of unrest
00:17:50.720 in Western Canada,
00:17:52.920 mainly produced
00:17:54.240 by the nine years
00:17:56.660 of what Westerners
00:17:58.160 would consider
00:17:58.760 liberal misrule.
00:18:01.400 And that unrest
00:18:02.120 is not confined,
00:18:03.080 of course,
00:18:03.360 to Alberta.
00:18:04.920 It's across the West
00:18:06.320 and there's unrest
00:18:07.720 in Quebec as well.
00:18:08.920 So country has
00:18:10.840 a unity challenge.
00:18:13.320 Many people have said
00:18:14.580 that national unity
00:18:15.760 is one of the main
00:18:17.760 primary jobs
00:18:18.800 of any prime minister.
00:18:20.500 I don't think
00:18:21.140 that Justin Trudeau
00:18:21.900 took it very seriously.
00:18:23.120 He allowed Western alienation
00:18:24.780 to fester.
00:18:26.140 By the end of his time
00:18:28.080 in office,
00:18:28.960 the threat of Quebec separatism
00:18:31.280 and the rise
00:18:32.260 of the Parti Québécois
00:18:33.200 had come back.
00:18:34.700 The Bloc Québécois
00:18:35.500 was a major force
00:18:37.320 after being reduced
00:18:38.240 to just a handful of seats
00:18:40.120 by Stephen Harper
00:18:40.980 in 2011.
00:18:43.440 Justin Trudeau
00:18:44.400 just did not seem to care.
00:18:46.960 And in fact,
00:18:48.480 I would argue
00:18:49.200 that in the 2021 election,
00:18:51.620 he campaigned
00:18:52.480 against Alberta
00:18:53.220 to win seats
00:18:53.940 in B.C. and Ontario.
00:18:56.160 Yeah, he was not
00:18:57.540 conducive
00:18:58.620 to national unity.
00:19:00.740 I think any prime minister
00:19:02.340 to be able
00:19:03.840 to achieve
00:19:04.440 some genuine unity
00:19:05.760 needs to
00:19:06.560 almost formally
00:19:08.240 recognize
00:19:09.120 the regional
00:19:10.840 character of Canada.
00:19:12.140 Canada's a huge country
00:19:13.220 and it's in regions,
00:19:14.140 Atlantic,
00:19:14.500 Laurentian,
00:19:15.780 Prairie,
00:19:16.320 Pacific,
00:19:16.860 the North.
00:19:17.860 And what would be
00:19:18.880 very helpful
00:19:19.640 is a prime minister
00:19:20.480 who recognizes
00:19:22.100 that each of those regions
00:19:23.920 has distinctive,
00:19:25.680 to use the Quebec word,
00:19:27.340 aspirations and concerns
00:19:28.800 which have to be
00:19:29.780 dealt with
00:19:30.400 and acknowledged.
00:19:31.840 And liberal administrations
00:19:33.400 have done that
00:19:35.120 to some extent
00:19:35.900 with respect to
00:19:36.540 Atlantic Canada,
00:19:37.340 Laurentian Canada
00:19:38.040 has ignored
00:19:39.160 the Prairie region,
00:19:40.720 the B.C. region,
00:19:41.600 the Pacific Coast region,
00:19:42.780 and the North.
00:19:44.900 And it's to be seen
00:19:46.740 whether a new government
00:19:48.140 has any better recognition
00:19:50.540 of the aspirations
00:19:51.480 and concerns
00:19:52.060 of those regions.
00:19:53.560 I hope so.
00:19:54.180 I hope so.
00:19:55.480 Some of the Laurentian elite,
00:19:58.860 to use a well-known term,
00:20:01.940 have been highly critical
00:20:03.320 of you
00:20:03.860 and your thoughts
00:20:05.360 surrounding this
00:20:06.620 during the course
00:20:07.820 of the election,
00:20:09.060 accusing you of,
00:20:10.240 you know,
00:20:11.600 fomenting separation,
00:20:13.660 fomenting the breakup
00:20:14.900 of the country.
00:20:16.620 Is that what you're
00:20:17.800 trying to do
00:20:19.000 or what is it
00:20:19.920 that you're trying to do?
00:20:20.880 No, of course not, Brian.
00:20:21.800 And they don't know
00:20:22.820 what my positions are.
00:20:24.940 Give me the name
00:20:25.880 of one of those elites
00:20:27.040 that had actually called me
00:20:28.280 and asked
00:20:28.780 what my positions were.
00:20:30.880 Not a single one.
00:20:32.660 What they do know
00:20:34.200 is a bit from,
00:20:35.260 indirectly,
00:20:35.780 from the media.
00:20:37.100 One of the things
00:20:37.840 I'm trying to do is,
00:20:38.880 and whether this comes about
00:20:40.620 is still a question,
00:20:41.740 is to create
00:20:42.320 what we're calling
00:20:43.580 a Canada West Assembly
00:20:45.860 where you'd get people
00:20:48.180 from the four western provinces
00:20:49.660 and the territories together
00:20:51.040 and then invite
00:20:52.220 these different groups
00:20:53.260 that have perspectives
00:20:54.300 on what the West
00:20:55.280 should be doing
00:20:56.000 in the future
00:20:56.700 to make formal representation,
00:20:59.260 to be subject
00:20:59.940 to cross-examination
00:21:01.300 like you should be
00:21:02.120 in a democratic forum,
00:21:03.540 to listen to the positions
00:21:04.940 of others,
00:21:05.900 and then take a straw vote
00:21:07.060 at the end
00:21:07.640 and make some recommendations
00:21:08.840 to the provincial governments.
00:21:10.760 And those options
00:21:11.700 that will be considered
00:21:12.440 will be everything
00:21:13.140 from the status quo
00:21:14.280 to the status quo
00:21:15.260 modified by the demands
00:21:18.180 of the western provinces,
00:21:20.040 modified perhaps
00:21:21.180 by what the new federal government says,
00:21:23.640 and will include these options
00:21:25.600 for secession in various forms
00:21:28.040 so that you get them
00:21:29.060 out of the back rooms
00:21:29.960 and get them into
00:21:31.220 a democratic arena
00:21:32.320 where they're tested.
00:21:33.160 That's the democratic way
00:21:35.500 to deal with unrest,
00:21:37.080 and I would say
00:21:38.400 that's more conducive
00:21:39.600 to unifying the countries
00:21:40.940 and denying that these concerns
00:21:43.540 or aspirations exist.
00:21:45.800 I think that's part
00:21:46.720 of the problem
00:21:47.300 is that far too many people
00:21:48.740 do just want to deny
00:21:51.960 that these problems exist
00:21:53.920 or that it's just,
00:21:56.660 well, you know,
00:21:57.780 you guys out West,
00:21:59.000 you just hate liberals,
00:22:00.000 and you can't take liberals winning,
00:22:02.580 and that's why you want
00:22:03.640 to take your ball
00:22:04.420 and go home.
00:22:06.760 You know,
00:22:07.400 I've spoken to people
00:22:08.680 who have voted
00:22:09.860 for all the parties
00:22:10.860 in the prairies
00:22:11.520 over the years,
00:22:13.300 over their lifetimes,
00:22:14.780 and, you know,
00:22:16.640 when you talk to them,
00:22:17.840 you find out
00:22:18.400 that many of them,
00:22:19.160 yeah, now they're voting
00:22:20.180 for conservatives
00:22:22.220 or conservative-leaning parties,
00:22:23.980 but they didn't start out that way,
00:22:25.260 and part of the reason
00:22:25.980 that they're doing that
00:22:26.720 is they feel
00:22:27.140 that's the only party
00:22:28.100 willing to listen
00:22:29.700 to what the concerns
00:22:30.780 of farmers
00:22:32.940 or ranchers
00:22:33.960 or people
00:22:34.820 in the natural resource industry
00:22:36.220 in Manitoba, Saskatchewan,
00:22:37.660 or Alberta,
00:22:38.360 that, you know,
00:22:39.240 the other guys
00:22:40.300 are just dismissive.
00:22:42.280 They look past them.
00:22:43.300 It's flyover country to them.
00:22:45.660 Yeah, it's a worry
00:22:46.800 to me, Brian,
00:22:47.840 the apparent
00:22:51.000 utter indifference
00:22:52.540 of not just the parties,
00:22:56.360 but of the voters
00:22:57.720 in central Canada
00:23:00.640 to these concerns
00:23:02.260 in western Canada
00:23:03.680 where you have an industry,
00:23:05.820 particularly the natural resource industry,
00:23:07.820 that is carrying
00:23:08.440 a lot of the freight
00:23:09.440 to the Canadian economy
00:23:10.700 and generating
00:23:12.280 a lot of the revenue
00:23:13.240 for that federal government
00:23:14.300 that is redistributed
00:23:15.320 to other places.
00:23:16.900 And a sign
00:23:17.940 that the next parliament
00:23:19.760 and the next government
00:23:20.800 is acknowledging
00:23:22.900 these concerns,
00:23:23.780 one of the big ones
00:23:25.200 would be
00:23:25.920 an act
00:23:27.760 to reduce
00:23:28.520 the intrusiveness
00:23:29.580 of the federal government
00:23:30.900 in the natural resources sector.
00:23:32.840 That's one of the biggest
00:23:33.900 sources of frustration.
00:23:35.420 Does that,
00:23:36.100 I read your comments
00:23:37.560 on that.
00:23:38.560 Does it actually need
00:23:39.780 to be a piece of legislation?
00:23:40.980 Does it need
00:23:41.460 to be an act?
00:23:42.700 Or does it just need
00:23:44.280 to be
00:23:44.820 that the federal government
00:23:46.520 starts
00:23:47.120 respecting the constitution,
00:23:49.580 the division of powers?
00:23:50.880 Well, you could say that.
00:23:51.900 You could put it that way, yes.
00:23:53.480 But what do they do?
00:23:56.320 They can say
00:23:56.980 they're going to
00:23:57.960 respect the constitution,
00:24:01.120 but a sign
00:24:01.720 that they're doing so,
00:24:03.120 the federal government's intrusion
00:24:05.500 in areas
00:24:06.080 of provincial responsibility
00:24:07.220 is done
00:24:07.820 through statutes
00:24:08.760 that authorize
00:24:09.620 the intrusion
00:24:10.660 in the health field,
00:24:12.440 by the Health Act,
00:24:13.640 in the resources sector,
00:24:14.860 by the Impact Assessment Act,
00:24:17.480 by Bill C-69,
00:24:18.640 in the municipal affairs,
00:24:21.560 which is exclusively
00:24:22.640 a provincial responsibility
00:24:23.840 through the legislation
00:24:25.340 that establishes
00:24:26.360 the Canada Mortgage Bank.
00:24:29.620 Most recently,
00:24:30.800 the Housing Accelerator Fund.
00:24:32.460 Yeah, yeah.
00:24:33.320 And if the federal government
00:24:35.000 wanted to send a signal
00:24:36.400 that it's prepared
00:24:37.840 to withdraw
00:24:39.640 from those areas,
00:24:40.960 that would do a lot
00:24:42.160 to heal relationships,
00:24:44.340 not just with Alberta
00:24:45.800 and the Prairie Provinces.
00:24:46.820 The federal government's
00:24:48.040 got to fight
00:24:48.580 with almost every
00:24:49.820 provincial government.
00:24:50.740 Federal-provincial relations
00:24:51.860 are in a shambles,
00:24:52.860 partly thanks to Tudor,
00:24:54.040 and one way to fix that
00:24:55.780 is to withdraw
00:24:56.320 from those areas.
00:24:58.220 And people will be
00:24:59.120 watching the throne speech
00:25:00.280 to see not just
00:25:01.320 whether there's nice words,
00:25:03.020 not just whether
00:25:03.840 someone comes out
00:25:04.780 of a press conference
00:25:05.620 and says,
00:25:06.140 we're going to do something.
00:25:07.660 Your parliament
00:25:08.860 is a place
00:25:10.200 that makes
00:25:10.760 or unmakes laws,
00:25:12.300 so let's make the law
00:25:14.520 that corrects
00:25:16.020 some of these worries.
00:25:19.480 You mentioned
00:25:20.080 that they've got to fight
00:25:20.920 with every provincial government.
00:25:23.800 While Alberta
00:25:24.720 has taken the lead
00:25:25.660 in being critical
00:25:26.400 of Bill C-69,
00:25:28.620 every provincial government,
00:25:30.240 New Democrat,
00:25:31.160 Liberal,
00:25:31.980 Conservative-leaning,
00:25:33.560 joined in that fight.
00:25:34.800 They joined the court
00:25:35.640 reference case
00:25:36.700 to try and have
00:25:38.020 that law struck down
00:25:39.040 because it's,
00:25:40.280 while it's dubbed
00:25:40.980 the No More Pipelines bill,
00:25:42.720 it's getting in the way
00:25:44.220 of the Ring of Fire
00:25:45.060 in Ontario,
00:25:45.660 it's getting in the way
00:25:46.800 of mining operations
00:25:48.340 in British Columbia,
00:25:49.200 which is still led
00:25:50.240 by an NDP government.
00:25:52.760 You know,
00:25:53.000 there isn't a provincial government
00:25:55.340 that isn't affected by this.
00:25:56.860 Yeah,
00:25:57.020 and one of the things
00:25:58.200 I think that would be helpful,
00:25:59.680 Brian,
00:26:00.020 is this country
00:26:01.700 is the second largest country
00:26:03.140 by landmass
00:26:04.220 in the world
00:26:05.080 that therefore
00:26:05.780 has either the largest
00:26:07.160 or the second largest
00:26:08.240 stock of natural resources,
00:26:10.860 agriculture,
00:26:11.580 energy,
00:26:11.900 mining,
00:26:12.680 forestry,
00:26:13.100 and the fishery.
00:26:14.360 And we need
00:26:16.080 a federal government
00:26:16.820 that recognizes
00:26:17.860 those sectors
00:26:19.100 as fundamental
00:26:19.960 building blocks
00:26:21.260 of the Canadian economy
00:26:22.460 and any economic recovery.
00:26:24.680 And Trudeau,
00:26:25.440 particularly,
00:26:26.020 treated them
00:26:26.480 as relics from the past
00:26:27.800 or even environmental liabilities.
00:26:31.120 And when you talk
00:26:32.780 about those sectors
00:26:33.620 to urban voters,
00:26:35.140 some of them,
00:26:35.600 when you mention agriculture,
00:26:36.760 we think,
00:26:37.120 well,
00:26:37.220 that's cows in the field
00:26:38.280 and grain.
00:26:39.740 No,
00:26:39.980 no,
00:26:40.160 no.
00:26:40.320 The agricultural producing
00:26:41.760 sector is at the bottom.
00:26:42.940 There's an agriculture
00:26:43.660 manufacturing sector
00:26:45.020 on top of that.
00:26:45.720 There's an agricultural
00:26:46.520 service sector
00:26:47.700 on top of that.
00:26:48.440 There's an agricultural
00:26:49.180 knowledge sector
00:26:49.960 on top of that.
00:26:50.920 And there's a pyramid
00:26:51.660 like that on top
00:26:52.500 of every one
00:26:53.180 of those resource sectors.
00:26:54.260 and 90% of those
00:26:55.880 other jobs,
00:26:56.720 manufacturing,
00:26:57.520 processing,
00:26:57.960 and the knowledge sector
00:26:59.640 are in urban centers.
00:27:01.280 So virtually every Canadian
00:27:03.220 has a vested interest
00:27:04.960 in the health
00:27:05.540 and development
00:27:06.040 of those sectors.
00:27:07.160 And when you have
00:27:07.540 a federal government
00:27:08.300 that denies that,
00:27:09.660 ignores that,
00:27:10.560 and even gets in the way
00:27:12.040 of those developments,
00:27:13.480 that's what's crippled
00:27:14.500 the Canadian economy,
00:27:15.520 reduced our GDP
00:27:16.420 to where it is.
00:27:18.200 Well,
00:27:18.740 they look upon it
00:27:19.440 as if we are pursuing
00:27:22.120 those industries,
00:27:22.940 then we're still
00:27:23.580 just being drawers
00:27:25.040 of water
00:27:25.640 and hewers of wood
00:27:26.680 and that isn't
00:27:27.760 what we should be doing.
00:27:28.720 That is a hundred-year-old fallacy.
00:27:34.080 How can you say that
00:27:35.280 when there,
00:27:36.200 has anybody looked
00:27:37.380 at the manufacturing sectors
00:27:40.860 that are on top
00:27:41.820 of those resource sectors?
00:27:43.440 Did anybody look
00:27:44.260 at the service sectors
00:27:45.380 that are on top of those
00:27:46.180 which employ more people
00:27:47.380 than down below
00:27:48.200 the knowledge sectors?
00:27:49.780 How can anyone still
00:27:51.240 adhere to that view?
00:27:53.340 And if they do,
00:27:54.140 they ought not to have
00:27:55.020 any business
00:27:55.580 in the Parliament of Canada.
00:27:57.220 Well,
00:27:57.540 I don't know how many years
00:27:59.660 I spent listening to people,
00:28:01.380 even,
00:28:01.820 you know,
00:28:03.000 politicians dismissing
00:28:04.180 the manufacturing sector,
00:28:05.600 which,
00:28:06.420 we've got a premier
00:28:07.320 in Ontario now
00:28:08.180 that champions it
00:28:09.120 and,
00:28:10.160 you know,
00:28:11.140 but for the longest time
00:28:11.980 it was,
00:28:13.040 well,
00:28:13.480 you know,
00:28:13.960 we need to focus
00:28:14.940 on the knowledge economy.
00:28:16.180 And,
00:28:17.440 you know,
00:28:17.800 we learned to code,
00:28:19.060 you know,
00:28:19.740 buzz phrases like that.
00:28:21.280 They didn't care
00:28:22.600 about manufacturing.
00:28:24.020 They didn't care
00:28:25.160 about resources.
00:28:26.520 They didn't care
00:28:27.280 about ag.
00:28:28.060 I mean,
00:28:28.200 that's something done
00:28:28.920 out in the country
00:28:29.500 somewhere,
00:28:29.880 right?
00:28:30.580 That's where I,
00:28:31.580 you know,
00:28:31.760 the stuff that happens
00:28:32.580 on my drive
00:28:33.260 to the cottage,
00:28:34.060 maybe.
00:28:35.680 Well,
00:28:36.280 that's,
00:28:36.780 if those views prevail,
00:28:38.580 that's why
00:28:39.320 the Canadian economy
00:28:40.540 will malfunction.
00:28:42.520 And it's the neglect,
00:28:44.760 not just the neglect
00:28:45.560 of those sectors
00:28:46.300 by the federal government,
00:28:48.240 but the putting obstruction
00:28:50.340 in the way
00:28:51.720 of their development
00:28:52.480 that is causing
00:28:53.220 a great deal
00:28:53.940 of this frustration
00:28:55.440 in Western Canada.
00:28:57.920 And the different responses
00:29:01.140 are that the premiers,
00:29:02.640 particularly Premier Smith
00:29:03.940 and Premier Moe
00:29:04.780 of Saskatchewan,
00:29:05.520 have put out
00:29:05.960 a list of things
00:29:06.920 that if the federal government
00:29:08.040 would do those,
00:29:09.040 it would alleviate
00:29:09.660 some of this unrest
00:29:11.540 in the West.
00:29:13.240 So when I spoke
00:29:15.300 to Premier Smith
00:29:16.220 the other day,
00:29:18.440 she said that she put forward
00:29:20.460 her nine proposals
00:29:21.320 and Prime Minister Carney
00:29:22.620 didn't say no
00:29:23.380 to any of them,
00:29:24.060 but he didn't say yes.
00:29:25.740 Does she need to get
00:29:27.020 all of her demands met?
00:29:29.600 Does Premier Moe
00:29:30.600 need to get all
00:29:31.260 of his demands met?
00:29:32.240 Or are there simple things
00:29:34.460 that this new government
00:29:36.540 can do
00:29:37.240 to extend an olive branch
00:29:38.780 and show,
00:29:40.420 yes,
00:29:40.660 we understand.
00:29:41.540 Yes,
00:29:41.740 we're going to move on this.
00:29:42.660 We won't give you everything,
00:29:44.020 but we're going to make
00:29:44.620 some moves.
00:29:45.380 But Brian,
00:29:45.620 they have to do something.
00:29:47.980 And that's what I'm asking.
00:29:49.180 What could they do
00:29:50.420 to extend that olive branch?
00:29:53.040 Well,
00:29:53.500 introduce legislation
00:29:55.780 or orders in council
00:29:56.700 to eliminate those barriers
00:29:58.920 that are frustrating Westerners.
00:30:00.740 But do it.
00:30:02.000 Not just talk about it
00:30:03.780 in speeches,
00:30:05.140 come out of meetings
00:30:06.680 and say these things
00:30:08.120 to the media.
00:30:08.820 Go and do it.
00:30:10.220 If you're a member
00:30:10.940 of the Parliament of Canada,
00:30:11.940 and I used to be one,
00:30:13.160 you make laws.
00:30:14.980 You're the only ones,
00:30:16.060 in fact,
00:30:16.420 in the country
00:30:16.880 that can make federal law.
00:30:18.380 So go and do it.
00:30:20.260 And if it's your laws
00:30:21.380 that are the obstructions,
00:30:23.000 as the Impact Assessment Act is,
00:30:26.300 as Bill 69 is,
00:30:27.540 then either repeal them
00:30:28.880 or amend them
00:30:29.580 to reduce the intrusiveness.
00:30:31.500 And I think
00:30:32.140 what's making Westerners
00:30:33.360 increasingly impatient
00:30:34.360 is talk, talk, talk
00:30:35.780 about these things.
00:30:36.800 Say we're going to do things,
00:30:38.020 promise things,
00:30:38.720 but no action on them.
00:30:41.480 And that would be
00:30:42.960 the simplest thing
00:30:43.740 the federal government
00:30:44.480 can do.
00:30:45.300 And the options
00:30:46.240 that Westerners
00:30:46.840 will be looking at,
00:30:47.500 one is whether
00:30:48.100 these conditions
00:30:48.860 that Premier Smith,
00:30:51.020 and I'm a great supporter
00:30:52.180 of what she's doing,
00:30:53.860 whether there's a response
00:30:55.300 from the federal government,
00:30:56.600 whether the federal government
00:30:57.620 itself takes some initiative
00:30:59.080 on these areas,
00:31:00.280 which maybe will be
00:31:01.480 in the throne speech.
00:31:02.340 I don't know.
00:31:02.780 People will be watching.
00:31:03.580 But if there's nothing there,
00:31:05.660 you're going to see
00:31:06.240 an increase in this desire
00:31:09.040 to maybe the West
00:31:10.460 should be more independent
00:31:11.580 from the Federation
00:31:12.960 than it is now.
00:31:14.260 And you've got
00:31:15.120 the same frustration
00:31:16.120 in Quebec
00:31:16.640 on a different set of issues.
00:31:19.200 Well, we've got some polling
00:31:20.100 that I'd like to ask you
00:31:21.020 about when we come back.
00:31:22.060 We're going to take
00:31:22.560 a quick break.
00:31:23.600 And when we come back,
00:31:24.720 I want to ask you about
00:31:25.540 how seriously
00:31:27.140 other Canadians
00:31:28.180 are taking it
00:31:28.760 and whether
00:31:29.400 people who are
00:31:31.240 talking about independence
00:31:32.300 are playing with fire.
00:31:34.280 Back in moments.
00:31:35.860 Whether you own
00:31:36.800 a bustling hair salon,
00:31:38.480 a painting company
00:31:41.940 that just landed
00:31:42.840 a big job,
00:31:44.200 or the hottest
00:31:47.440 new bakery in town,
00:31:49.160 you need business insurance
00:31:52.420 that can keep up
00:31:53.260 with your evolving needs.
00:31:54.760 With flexible coverage options
00:31:56.100 from TD Insurance,
00:31:57.420 you only pay
00:31:58.260 for what you need.
00:32:00.040 Get a quote in minutes
00:32:01.020 from TD Insurance
00:32:02.260 today.
00:32:03.300 TD.
00:32:04.520 Ready for you.
00:32:05.820 This is Tristan Hopper,
00:32:06.940 the host of
00:32:07.380 Canada Did What?
00:32:08.500 where we unpack
00:32:09.520 the biggest,
00:32:10.340 weirdest,
00:32:10.820 and wildest political moments
00:32:12.300 in Canadian history
00:32:13.180 you thought you knew
00:32:14.300 and tell you
00:32:15.280 what really happened.
00:32:16.800 Stick around
00:32:17.500 at the end of the episode
00:32:18.400 to hear a sample
00:32:19.200 of one of our
00:32:19.900 favorite episodes.
00:32:21.260 If you don't want
00:32:22.280 to stick around,
00:32:22.980 make sure you subscribe
00:32:24.100 to Canada Did What?
00:32:25.720 everywhere you get podcasts.
00:32:27.560 New polling
00:32:28.100 published in National Post
00:32:30.000 for the Association
00:32:31.380 of Canadian Studies
00:32:32.380 shows that 52%
00:32:33.800 of Canadians
00:32:34.380 do actually believe
00:32:35.320 that Western separation
00:32:36.580 is an issue
00:32:37.860 to be taken seriously.
00:32:39.880 Mr. Manning,
00:32:40.920 you're talking about
00:32:41.800 the Citizens Assembly.
00:32:43.260 How would that differ
00:32:44.280 from the Alberta
00:32:45.900 Next panel
00:32:46.760 that Premier Smith
00:32:48.380 is putting together?
00:32:49.220 Well, for one thing,
00:32:50.760 if this assembly
00:32:51.780 comes about,
00:32:53.640 it would be
00:32:54.000 a pan-Western assembly,
00:32:56.900 not just Alberta,
00:32:58.180 because these sentiments
00:32:59.200 exist in Saskatchewan,
00:33:02.000 in a lot of rural Manitoba,
00:33:04.000 and eastern, central,
00:33:06.180 and northern British Columbia.
00:33:08.140 So this assembly,
00:33:09.540 if it occurs,
00:33:10.260 would be a pan-Western,
00:33:11.600 not just Alberta.
00:33:13.220 And this is an important thing,
00:33:14.480 I think,
00:33:14.800 for people in central Canada
00:33:16.540 to understand,
00:33:17.540 although Alberta gets
00:33:18.640 a lot of the publicity,
00:33:19.780 these sentiments
00:33:20.320 are a lot broader
00:33:21.160 than Alberta.
00:33:21.860 So this would be
00:33:22.400 pan-Western assembly.
00:33:24.220 And basically,
00:33:25.200 it would be just
00:33:25.800 an opportunity
00:33:26.500 for the proponents
00:33:27.900 of the major options
00:33:29.280 featuring,
00:33:31.220 that the West
00:33:32.180 is considering
00:33:33.680 to be presented,
00:33:35.220 cross-examined,
00:33:36.340 debated,
00:33:36.860 and votes taken,
00:33:37.660 which of these
00:33:38.180 ought to be,
00:33:39.160 if any,
00:33:39.760 recommended
00:33:40.200 to the provincial government.
00:33:41.400 So the panel
00:33:42.600 that Premier Smith
00:33:44.520 is talking about
00:33:45.360 would, of course,
00:33:45.900 be welcome
00:33:46.440 to make one
00:33:47.120 of these presentations.
00:33:48.280 This is what
00:33:48.780 they found
00:33:49.500 with respect to Alberta.
00:33:50.960 There would be
00:33:51.500 similar presentations,
00:33:52.700 maybe from the other provinces.
00:33:54.280 And the idea
00:33:55.000 would be to get
00:33:55.700 these people
00:33:56.300 that are talking
00:33:56.920 about secession
00:33:57.800 and have not
00:33:58.940 thought it through
00:33:59.640 in many cases
00:34:00.700 exactly what that means.
00:34:02.220 Let that get
00:34:03.320 out of the back rooms
00:34:04.520 onto a democratic forum,
00:34:06.420 cross-examine,
00:34:07.660 and look at
00:34:08.320 the practicalities
00:34:09.280 and the process
00:34:09.840 and the minuses
00:34:10.620 doing that.
00:34:11.900 And hopefully,
00:34:13.360 this would provide
00:34:14.240 a democratic way
00:34:15.860 of dealing
00:34:16.300 with these frustrations
00:34:18.460 and leading
00:34:18.940 to recommendations
00:34:19.760 that would be useful
00:34:20.940 to the provincial governments.
00:34:23.020 But are you
00:34:23.760 playing with fire
00:34:24.700 a little bit
00:34:25.400 on this issue?
00:34:27.220 If you start
00:34:28.480 platforming people
00:34:30.300 that do want
00:34:31.020 to break up the country,
00:34:31.900 if you're
00:34:32.400 putting forward
00:34:33.620 a forum
00:34:34.680 for them to explain
00:34:35.680 why the country
00:34:36.220 should be broken up,
00:34:37.120 and I know
00:34:37.660 there's different factions.
00:34:39.080 You're playing with fire
00:34:40.120 if you suppress them.
00:34:41.860 You're playing with fire
00:34:42.900 if you suppress them.
00:34:44.120 And why the double standard?
00:34:45.520 Why is it okay
00:34:46.260 to have these open debates
00:34:47.520 in Quebec
00:34:47.960 and have them
00:34:48.780 for 20 years?
00:34:49.680 Why is that okay?
00:34:50.800 Why is that legitimate?
00:34:52.580 But if Western Canada
00:34:53.680 even considers that,
00:34:54.820 this is some
00:34:55.720 illegitimate practice.
00:34:58.820 The West simply
00:34:59.560 doesn't buy that.
00:35:00.820 And my fear is
00:35:01.840 if you try to suppress
00:35:02.940 these more radical views
00:35:04.520 and keep them
00:35:05.020 in the back room
00:35:05.660 and say,
00:35:06.460 despite the fact
00:35:07.400 that we're a democracy,
00:35:08.440 we're this freedom
00:35:08.960 of expression,
00:35:09.700 you can't do that here,
00:35:10.840 that causes
00:35:12.400 internal combustion
00:35:13.660 that is more dangerous
00:35:15.100 than exposing
00:35:16.360 these things.
00:35:18.480 I'm watching
00:35:19.340 the different factions
00:35:20.220 primarily from Alberta
00:35:21.660 talk about this,
00:35:25.800 although I do recall
00:35:26.980 interviewing the people
00:35:27.780 from the Maverick Party
00:35:28.820 or what was the Wexit Party
00:35:30.540 that became Maverick,
00:35:32.080 and some of their
00:35:32.840 main organizers
00:35:33.620 were originally
00:35:34.340 from Saskatchewan,
00:35:35.340 but in Alberta
00:35:36.260 it's getting a lot
00:35:37.040 of the attention.
00:35:38.840 There are different factions
00:35:40.260 even within the
00:35:41.020 independence movement.
00:35:42.080 There are those
00:35:42.620 who want what Quebec
00:35:43.780 once described
00:35:44.920 as sovereignty association,
00:35:47.060 you know,
00:35:47.920 more independence
00:35:48.840 but still part of Canada.
00:35:50.400 There are people
00:35:51.020 arguing that Alberta
00:35:52.700 should just become
00:35:53.380 its own independent country,
00:35:54.840 and then there are others,
00:35:56.080 and I think this might
00:35:56.960 be the smallest group,
00:35:58.000 but things can change
00:35:59.220 and grow,
00:36:00.280 is the group
00:36:01.460 that wants to join
00:36:02.280 the United States.
00:36:03.720 What would you say
00:36:05.340 to those who,
00:36:06.440 because I believe
00:36:08.200 that you still believe
00:36:09.240 in a united Canada,
00:36:10.600 what would your argument
00:36:11.720 be to those
00:36:12.640 in the groups
00:36:13.640 that either want
00:36:14.300 to make Alberta
00:36:15.560 independent
00:36:16.220 or to join
00:36:17.720 the United States?
00:36:18.820 Well, I'd say
00:36:19.200 get your act together.
00:36:20.620 First of all,
00:36:21.160 there's about 10
00:36:21.940 of these groups
00:36:22.680 in Alberta
00:36:23.200 and maybe four
00:36:24.080 in Saskatchewan.
00:36:25.660 Get your act together
00:36:26.760 so there's a couple
00:36:27.760 of major presentations
00:36:29.020 of your postures.
00:36:30.680 The main one
00:36:31.500 would be to secede
00:36:32.580 to create
00:36:33.020 an independent country.
00:36:34.020 The second one
00:36:35.000 might be to secede
00:36:36.080 in with the aim
00:36:37.160 of joining
00:36:37.600 the United States.
00:36:38.480 Get that proposal
00:36:39.560 as refined
00:36:42.000 and thought through
00:36:43.740 as you can
00:36:44.380 and then make
00:36:45.100 a presentation
00:36:45.680 of that
00:36:46.280 to this assembly
00:36:47.100 and I say
00:36:48.540 to those people
00:36:49.200 and I have said
00:36:49.840 it to some
00:36:50.240 of those people,
00:36:51.240 you'll get a chance
00:36:52.240 to have your say
00:36:53.020 and you won't be
00:36:53.580 pushed in the back room
00:36:54.560 and say we can't
00:36:55.180 talk about that here
00:36:55.980 but your proposal
00:36:57.200 would be subjected
00:36:58.020 to cross-examination
00:36:59.320 by people who know
00:37:00.500 a lot about this subject.
00:37:02.120 You know a lot
00:37:02.700 about the subject
00:37:03.360 so what would
00:37:03.880 your cross-examination
00:37:04.960 be for arguing
00:37:06.800 in favour
00:37:07.380 of a united Canada?
00:37:08.840 Well the cross-examination
00:37:10.140 wouldn't be to argue
00:37:11.220 in favour or against
00:37:12.400 it would be expose
00:37:13.240 the pros and the cons
00:37:14.340 of both sides
00:37:14.980 so that the people
00:37:15.700 in this assembly
00:37:16.460 can make a judgement
00:37:17.360 on it.
00:37:18.020 It's what Jefferson
00:37:18.800 called informing
00:37:19.780 the discretion
00:37:20.600 which is an interesting
00:37:22.140 phrase.
00:37:22.700 It doesn't mean
00:37:23.120 telling people
00:37:23.920 what to do
00:37:24.500 it says give them
00:37:25.200 the tools
00:37:25.680 and the information
00:37:26.360 so they can make
00:37:27.360 a right decision
00:37:28.140 and you know
00:37:30.700 if you had
00:37:31.660 cross-examination
00:37:32.640 of these options
00:37:33.960 one of the issues
00:37:35.260 that come up
00:37:36.220 is access to seaboard
00:37:37.840 if you're independent
00:37:39.120 if it's okay
00:37:40.600 it's BC
00:37:41.160 and Manitoba's engaged
00:37:43.180 but if they're not
00:37:43.840 what about that?
00:37:45.060 What about the status
00:37:45.900 of Aboriginal
00:37:46.820 of Indigenous people
00:37:48.180 who have treaty
00:37:49.220 arrangements
00:37:49.920 with the federal
00:37:50.700 government?
00:37:51.800 We ran into this
00:37:52.680 I was in Ottawa
00:37:53.440 in 1995
00:37:54.200 when the Quebec
00:37:55.220 referendum
00:37:56.280 was posited
00:37:58.240 and we had
00:37:58.860 Northern Cree
00:37:59.560 come and sit
00:38:00.220 in our office
00:38:00.800 and say
00:38:01.160 we don't care
00:38:01.820 what these
00:38:02.380 people in Quebec
00:38:03.640 vote
00:38:04.080 we are going
00:38:04.620 to be part
00:38:05.120 of Canada
00:38:05.560 and the federal
00:38:06.320 government
00:38:06.660 is responsible
00:38:07.360 for us
00:38:07.780 this is all
00:38:08.300 those types
00:38:08.780 of issues
00:38:09.220 and the important
00:38:11.060 thing is to get
00:38:11.780 cross-examination
00:38:12.820 get the pros
00:38:13.860 and the cons out
00:38:14.620 and those will not
00:38:16.080 be the major
00:38:16.840 issues
00:38:17.300 they'll be
00:38:17.960 major proposals
00:38:19.660 at this
00:38:20.520 assembly
00:38:21.900 I would assume
00:38:22.480 the major ones
00:38:23.280 are the position
00:38:24.040 that Premier Smith
00:38:26.200 and Premier
00:38:26.820 Moe has taken
00:38:27.900 here's a list
00:38:29.680 of conditions
00:38:30.340 that if the
00:38:31.040 federal government
00:38:31.700 met them
00:38:32.340 the west
00:38:32.800 would feel
00:38:33.240 more at home
00:38:33.820 in the federation
00:38:34.500 are they
00:38:35.040 or are they
00:38:35.500 not being met
00:38:36.580 there may be
00:38:37.600 some initiatives
00:38:38.300 come from
00:38:38.800 the federal
00:38:39.260 government
00:38:40.380 the new government
00:38:41.060 in the throne
00:38:41.640 speech
00:38:41.980 so if there is
00:38:43.120 that might be
00:38:43.820 a sort of
00:38:44.160 a second set
00:38:45.060 of options
00:38:45.760 so the idea
00:38:47.140 is to have
00:38:47.680 a democratic
00:38:48.380 discussion
00:38:49.420 of these options
00:38:50.120 and there's not
00:38:50.620 very many places
00:38:51.580 today where you
00:38:52.140 can have them
00:38:52.740 you certainly
00:38:53.340 can't have them
00:38:54.020 in the Parliament
00:38:54.560 of Canada
00:38:55.140 which is
00:38:56.840 sad and ironic
00:38:58.220 which is ironic
00:38:59.420 I know
00:39:00.120 ironic
00:39:01.660 when you were
00:39:04.260 starting reform
00:39:05.300 the grievances
00:39:07.160 were different
00:39:07.820 but the fact
00:39:09.260 that so many
00:39:10.640 in Western Canada
00:39:11.620 feel like their
00:39:12.440 voices are silenced
00:39:13.600 that they don't
00:39:14.600 have the political
00:39:15.260 muscle that
00:39:16.080 should match
00:39:16.980 their importance
00:39:18.060 to the country
00:39:18.680 economically
00:39:19.260 and otherwise
00:39:19.900 those remain
00:39:21.940 is it possible
00:39:24.740 to even deal
00:39:25.440 with something
00:39:25.780 you wrote
00:39:27.360 into Ottawa
00:39:28.020 you know
00:39:28.840 wanting a
00:39:30.520 triple E
00:39:31.180 Senate
00:39:31.600 Prime Minister
00:39:32.620 Harper
00:39:33.040 tried
00:39:33.660 valiantly
00:39:34.660 to change
00:39:35.920 the Senate
00:39:36.380 in a few
00:39:36.880 different ways
00:39:37.580 and was
00:39:38.900 stymied at
00:39:39.480 every turn
00:39:39.960 the Supreme
00:39:40.700 Court has
00:39:41.100 effectively said
00:39:41.940 you're not
00:39:42.820 going to change
00:39:43.380 this
00:39:43.660 don't even
00:39:44.240 bother
00:39:44.620 so how do
00:39:46.700 you address
00:39:47.180 those non-economic
00:39:48.680 terms
00:39:49.860 like the
00:39:50.620 political muscle
00:39:51.400 how many
00:39:53.280 senators do
00:39:53.880 you have
00:39:54.280 in the
00:39:55.920 West
00:39:56.200 fewer than
00:39:57.380 yeah that's
00:39:59.160 fewer than
00:39:59.660 all Atlantic
00:40:00.460 Canada has
00:40:01.020 one of the
00:40:01.660 problems will
00:40:02.120 come up
00:40:02.480 is to the
00:40:03.480 extent that
00:40:04.100 the proposed
00:40:05.060 reforms by
00:40:06.000 any of these
00:40:06.760 groups involve
00:40:07.720 constitutional
00:40:08.520 change
00:40:09.140 it brings up
00:40:10.920 the issue
00:40:11.280 that the
00:40:11.640 Canadian
00:40:11.960 constitution
00:40:12.500 is virtually
00:40:13.220 unamendable
00:40:14.200 because of
00:40:14.820 the formula
00:40:15.740 you can't
00:40:16.440 amend it
00:40:17.020 and so
00:40:18.320 your fallback
00:40:20.160 position is
00:40:20.700 to try to
00:40:21.160 achieve some
00:40:21.780 of these
00:40:22.100 things without
00:40:23.420 amending the
00:40:24.140 constitution
00:40:24.680 for example
00:40:25.600 if in the
00:40:26.360 federal parliament
00:40:27.080 there was
00:40:27.540 free voting
00:40:28.800 if this new
00:40:30.300 government
00:40:30.660 tell Carney
00:40:32.480 I could write
00:40:33.540 this out for him
00:40:34.180 and he could
00:40:34.440 say it in
00:40:34.780 20 seconds
00:40:35.480 if the new
00:40:36.400 government
00:40:36.700 got up and
00:40:37.400 said we
00:40:38.120 will not
00:40:38.620 resign
00:40:39.180 unless we
00:40:40.500 lose a
00:40:41.300 specific
00:40:41.900 non-confidence
00:40:42.840 motion
00:40:43.300 we will not
00:40:44.080 resign because
00:40:44.740 some bill
00:40:45.260 gets defeated
00:40:45.880 we won't
00:40:46.320 resign because
00:40:47.000 some section
00:40:47.840 or some
00:40:49.140 motion gets
00:40:49.940 defeated
00:40:50.220 we will only
00:40:50.880 resign if
00:40:51.600 there is an
00:40:52.160 explicit measure
00:40:53.660 of non-confidence
00:40:54.540 to defeat
00:40:55.400 us
00:40:55.700 with the
00:40:57.380 traditional money
00:40:58.080 bill being
00:40:58.820 part of that
00:40:59.260 no I wouldn't
00:41:00.100 even include
00:41:00.520 that
00:41:00.780 but then say
00:41:02.680 to the
00:41:03.040 members that
00:41:03.700 you've got
00:41:04.340 freer voting
00:41:05.500 if there's
00:41:06.760 some liberal
00:41:07.420 members from
00:41:08.020 western Canada
00:41:08.720 who disagrees
00:41:09.700 with what the
00:41:10.360 government is
00:41:10.840 doing they
00:41:11.240 ought to be
00:41:11.580 able to get
00:41:12.020 up and say
00:41:12.780 so and vote
00:41:13.780 against it
00:41:14.280 without toppling
00:41:15.260 the government
00:41:15.800 that's what
00:41:16.640 the amending
00:41:17.640 the confidence
00:41:18.340 convention and
00:41:19.560 providing freedom
00:41:20.340 of voting it
00:41:21.020 would provide
00:41:21.540 at least some
00:41:22.840 effective regional
00:41:24.540 representation in
00:41:25.760 the house of
00:41:26.440 commons if you
00:41:27.400 can't get it in
00:41:28.140 the senate
00:41:28.560 now this is a
00:41:29.900 it's it's not
00:41:30.660 the best way
00:41:31.360 to do it but
00:41:32.080 it's if you
00:41:32.860 can't amend the
00:41:33.600 constitution at
00:41:34.480 least it's one
00:41:34.940 way to do it
00:41:35.640 could you add
00:41:36.680 more senators
00:41:37.380 for the western
00:41:38.640 provinces without
00:41:39.660 amending the
00:41:40.260 constitution
00:41:40.900 well you could
00:41:44.440 add senators but
00:41:45.420 I think they have
00:41:46.320 to be democratically
00:41:47.540 accountable these
00:41:48.740 senators are not
00:41:49.600 accountable to
00:41:50.160 anybody except
00:41:51.820 the person that
00:41:52.520 appointed them
00:41:53.220 that's what's a
00:41:54.920 body like that
00:41:55.640 having anything to
00:41:56.760 do with the
00:41:57.720 making of federal
00:41:58.440 law if we were
00:42:00.160 if we were if
00:42:01.000 Canada was asked
00:42:01.800 to take a look
00:42:02.920 at the
00:42:03.200 constitutional
00:42:03.800 arrangement in
00:42:04.460 some third world
00:42:05.220 country and they
00:42:06.600 had a block in
00:42:08.000 their lawmaking
00:42:08.800 process where there
00:42:09.640 was completely
00:42:10.180 unelected and
00:42:11.120 unaccountable people
00:42:12.260 had something to
00:42:13.240 do with the
00:42:13.580 passage of the
00:42:14.160 laws we would
00:42:14.840 say that's
00:42:15.360 undemocratic but
00:42:16.940 we have it like
00:42:17.780 that well we have
00:42:19.020 it and we are
00:42:19.720 seemingly stuck with
00:42:20.780 it much to my
00:42:21.700 chagrin well
00:42:22.500 what one of the
00:42:23.560 other things that
00:42:24.980 I've heard of
00:42:26.280 though I don't
00:42:26.600 like the prospect
00:42:27.300 of it if Quebec
00:42:28.440 were to decide to
00:42:29.560 leave the
00:42:29.940 federation they
00:42:32.120 that would blow
00:42:32.980 the constitution
00:42:33.820 apart you would
00:42:35.060 have to have a
00:42:35.840 constitutional
00:42:36.420 convention to
00:42:37.060 completely rewrite
00:42:38.280 the the
00:42:39.460 constitution of
00:42:40.300 Canada and
00:42:41.720 you know the
00:42:42.120 west would argue
00:42:42.780 well give us the
00:42:43.620 three seats that
00:42:44.420 Quebec had on the
00:42:45.440 supreme court give
00:42:46.300 us the 24 seats
00:42:47.340 they got in the
00:42:47.980 senate give us a
00:42:48.820 big chunk of the
00:42:49.460 75 seats the
00:42:50.380 house of commons
00:42:51.060 and we'd probably
00:42:51.980 be quite happy
00:42:52.880 I don't like that
00:42:56.600 prospect either
00:42:57.580 though
00:42:58.040 yes yes yes
00:42:59.360 that's a way out
00:43:00.760 one there but
00:43:01.580 it's ironic that
00:43:02.940 the the only way
00:43:04.200 we could force a
00:43:05.180 major rethinking
00:43:07.420 of our constitution
00:43:08.540 is for somebody
00:43:09.260 to blow it
00:43:09.800 apart like that
00:43:10.660 what kind of a
00:43:12.080 system is that
00:43:13.440 you know
00:43:13.800 what are the
00:43:15.720 what are the
00:43:17.280 other issues
00:43:17.860 beyond the
00:43:18.500 economics beyond
00:43:19.300 the the senate
00:43:20.660 and democratic
00:43:21.300 issues that you
00:43:22.440 are hearing about
00:43:23.260 as you talk to
00:43:24.420 people about the
00:43:25.040 grievances from
00:43:25.700 western Canada
00:43:26.280 well one of them
00:43:26.880 is that as you
00:43:28.420 know the west
00:43:29.460 looks west to
00:43:31.880 the asia pacific
00:43:33.160 region as where
00:43:34.480 a lot of the
00:43:35.300 future is going to
00:43:36.200 happen and there
00:43:38.080 were westerners
00:43:38.740 that noticed the
00:43:39.460 first place that
00:43:40.460 mr carney went was
00:43:42.840 to france and
00:43:44.220 england back to
00:43:45.460 the old countries
00:43:47.260 he mentions ties
00:43:48.960 with the european
00:43:50.700 union to every
00:43:52.960 he mentions that
00:43:54.340 ten times to every
00:43:55.640 i haven't even heard
00:43:56.940 him talk about
00:43:57.740 australia japan and
00:43:59.780 how to handle
00:44:00.580 china so there's a
00:44:02.040 fundamental difference
00:44:02.980 with west tends to
00:44:04.000 and particularly
00:44:04.680 the younger people
00:44:05.620 some of our
00:44:06.540 younger people when
00:44:08.040 you know they get
00:44:08.880 out of university
00:44:09.480 and they want to
00:44:09.860 go traveling
00:44:10.380 internationally they
00:44:11.400 go west they go
00:44:12.560 west they do not
00:44:13.640 go necessarily to
00:44:15.180 europe so that
00:44:16.100 that's and this
00:44:17.040 affects our foreign
00:44:17.820 affairs what
00:44:18.440 emphasis is going to
00:44:19.280 be made on the
00:44:19.980 asia pacific and
00:44:21.580 the 21st century
00:44:23.180 asia pacific rather
00:44:24.760 than uh to making
00:44:26.340 time improving our
00:44:28.000 ties to the past
00:44:29.040 is it wise to still
00:44:31.380 tie our hitch our
00:44:32.960 wagon to to china
00:44:34.300 no no one's
00:44:36.200 suggesting that but
00:44:37.080 you can't ignore
00:44:37.880 them and having
00:44:39.060 discussions with the
00:44:39.940 australians as to
00:44:40.980 how do you maintain
00:44:42.160 an independence from
00:44:43.340 china and on the
00:44:45.280 security front but
00:44:46.620 you have to recognize
00:44:47.980 what a big economic
00:44:48.960 players are it would
00:44:49.720 be very it would be
00:44:51.500 very healthy for
00:44:52.460 candidate to do
00:44:53.240 that all right
00:44:54.780 mr manning thanks for
00:44:56.420 your time uh do
00:44:57.760 keep in touch we'll
00:44:58.800 watch the uh the
00:44:59.980 western assembly if
00:45:00.860 it comes together
00:45:01.540 we'll see how the
00:45:03.160 uh the people in
00:45:04.380 uh western canada
00:45:05.860 continue to react to
00:45:06.960 the the carny
00:45:07.640 government as you
00:45:08.660 said uh earlier
00:45:09.540 it's going to be
00:45:10.160 actions and not
00:45:11.060 words and hopefully
00:45:12.380 by the time he meets
00:45:13.460 the premiers in
00:45:14.860 saskatoon we're on
00:45:16.760 the way to seeing
00:45:17.520 what those actions if
00:45:18.800 any will be thanks
00:45:20.180 so much okay so
00:45:21.080 let's stay tuned
00:45:22.300 you're saying yes
00:45:23.320 full comment is a
00:45:26.720 post media podcast
00:45:27.700 my name is brian
00:45:28.440 lily your host this
00:45:29.580 episode was produced
00:45:30.560 by andre pru theme
00:45:31.700 music by bryce hall
00:45:32.900 kevin libban is the
00:45:34.420 executive producer
00:45:35.460 remember to hit
00:45:36.960 subscribe on apple
00:45:38.340 spotify wherever you're
00:45:39.440 listening to your
00:45:39.960 podcast leave us a
00:45:40.940 rating and give us a
00:45:41.940 review thanks for
00:45:42.880 listening until next
00:45:43.760 time i'm brian lily
00:45:44.840 here's that clip from
00:45:49.420 candidate did what i
00:45:50.960 promised you
00:45:51.580 so um although
00:45:57.040 although abortion was
00:46:00.360 sort of accessible it
00:46:01.900 really wasn't but then
00:46:03.120 1988 rolls around and
00:46:05.300 what's the law on
00:46:06.080 abortion then suddenly
00:46:08.140 there wasn't one
00:46:09.700 literally no restrictions
00:46:11.500 existed in 1988
00:46:13.140 abortion went from
00:46:14.720 heavily restricted to
00:46:16.040 completely unrestricted
00:46:17.600 almost overnight there
00:46:20.140 was no referendum on
00:46:21.120 this there wasn't even
00:46:22.200 an act of parliament
00:46:23.160 this whole thing is due
00:46:25.060 to a somewhat surprised
00:46:26.440 decision out of the
00:46:27.500 supreme court of
00:46:28.100 canada and it came
00:46:29.660 about in large part
00:46:30.680 because of one man a
00:46:32.260 canadian doctor who
00:46:33.320 had been relentless
00:46:34.140 about running illegal
00:46:35.340 abortion clinics since
00:46:36.380 the 1960s and was
00:46:37.980 determined to overturn
00:46:39.180 the laws prohibiting the
00:46:40.260 practice along the way
00:46:42.360 he endured multiple
00:46:43.520 arrests constant raids
00:46:44.940 a jail term a firebombing
00:46:46.560 of his clinic and
00:46:47.280 attacked by a fanatic
00:46:48.260 wielding garden shears
00:46:49.200 the approbation of
00:46:50.880 virtually his entire
00:46:51.900 profession and frequent
00:46:53.660 death threats
00:46:54.320 if you want to hear the
00:46:57.940 rest of the story make
00:46:59.300 sure you subscribe to
00:47:00.640 canada did what
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