Full Comment - It’s not just Alberta flirting with western separatism now

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00:00:55.380 When I found out my friend got a great deal on a wool coat from Winners,

00:01:01.720 I started wondering, is every fabulous item I see from Winners?

00:01:06.780 Like that woman over there with the designer jeans. 1.00

00:01:09.480 Are those from Winners?

00:01:11.000 Ooh, or those beautiful gold earrings.

00:01:13.460 Did she pay full price?

00:01:14.820 Or that leather tote?

00:01:15.820 Or that cashmere sweater?

00:01:17.020 Or those knee-high boots?

00:01:18.460 That dress?

00:01:19.280 That jacket?

00:01:19.840 Those shoes?

00:01:20.800 Is anyone paying full price for anything?

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00:01:31.260 Is there a chance that Canada could break apart?

00:01:34.000 I'm not sure we're at that point yet, but warning signs are on the horizon.

00:01:38.460 You could say that the country's check engine light is flashing bright red.

00:01:42.580 This time, the real problem isn't Quebec.

00:01:44.620 It's Western Canada.

00:01:45.820 Yes, Alberta, but more than just Alberta.

00:01:48.080 Hello, and welcome to the Full Comment Podcast.

00:01:50.520 My name's Brian Lilly, your host.

00:01:52.020 And today, a look at national unity from a Western perspective.

00:01:56.680 We just had an election that returned to Liberal government,

00:01:59.260 albeit with a new leader and Prime Minister at the helm.

00:02:02.520 As Mark Carney will gladly and frequently tell you,

00:02:05.480 he was born in the Northwest Territories, raised in Edmonton, Alberta.

00:02:09.240 He loves showing off his Oilers jersey and views himself as a Westerner.

00:02:13.600 But a desire to separate after this latest Liberal win has been on the rise.

00:02:18.080 An Angus Reid poll taken before the election showed 30% in Alberta and 33% in Saskatchewan

00:02:24.780 would want to make their province independent if the Kearney Liberals won.

00:02:28.840 Alberta Premier Danielle Smith recently introduced legislation to make it easier for

00:02:33.160 citizen initiatives to take place, which could include a referendum on separation.

00:02:38.640 We're at a crossroads.

00:02:39.900 How we address these problems before us will determine the future of Canada.

00:02:44.280 On this podcast, you will hear from my conversations with Premier Smith,

00:02:48.620 with Dan Arnold, a Calgary native and Liberal, former senior staffer in the Trudeau PMO,

00:02:53.180 and from Preston Manning about how we can address these issues, how we should address them.

00:02:58.360 First up, Premier Smith, who I interviewed after the First Minister's meeting that took place last Wednesday,

00:03:03.640 day after Prime Minister Carney went to Washington.

00:03:06.180 I asked the Premier to explain for Canadians and the rest of the country,

00:03:10.600 while people in Western Canada, Alberta in particular, are feeling the way they do, neglected by the East.

00:03:16.860 Well, maybe the best way to describe it is for people to examine how scared and fearful they are

00:03:22.860 that Donald Trump will crush their economy.

00:03:25.700 That's how scared and fearful Albertans are that the Liberals will continue to crush our economy.

00:03:29.860 All of the damage that we have seen over the last 10 years, most of it has come from bad federal policy,

00:03:36.980 coming out of the alliance between the Liberals and the NDs to target our industry

00:03:40.940 and to put in punitive policies that are designed to keep our oil and gas in the ground.

00:03:45.960 That is how, maybe that's the best way to understand the feelings Albertans have right now.

00:03:51.020 No, I'm feeling very hopeful.

00:03:53.520 I think I've said before that I don't know if we've got Conservative banker Mark Carney,

00:03:59.240 who is our Prime Minister, or whether we've got a Net Zero Advisory Council to Justin Trudeau.

00:04:06.020 Mark Carney is our Prime Minister.

00:04:07.780 But I want to see which one that is.

00:04:10.540 And I do think that if we can find a pragmatic path forward,

00:04:14.180 then it's going to be, it's going to work for Canada and it's going to work for Alberta.

00:04:17.620 That's interesting that she spoke about Prime Minister Carney in a positive way.

00:04:21.240 She hasn't been shy about being critical.

00:04:23.380 And in fact, she was positive more than once during the interview about Carney,

00:04:27.500 including telling me that when she presented him with her list of demands,

00:04:31.520 he didn't say no right away.

00:04:32.940 What I will say is we've had a conversation, and I'm hoping to have many more,

00:04:37.380 where I put those nine issues on the table and he didn't say no to any of them.

00:04:41.100 Didn't say yes, I'm going to address them all.

00:04:42.740 But the fact that his first reaction was not no says to me that we have some common ground to start on.

00:04:48.560 I've seen Doug Ford very vocally and in public talk about the importance of changing the regulatory process under C-69

00:04:56.120 so we can get things built.

00:04:57.720 And that applies as much to Ring of Fire mining projects as it does to pipelines.

00:05:02.280 I've been grateful to see that level of support from the Chair of our Council of the Federation.

00:05:07.360 And so I think he's getting the message from a number of different voices,

00:05:11.060 not just mine, not just the energy industry, but also other premiers,

00:05:15.280 that this is a rare moment where the nation is united.

00:05:19.160 We realize the threat to our sovereignty that comes from the Americans 1.00

00:05:23.240 because we haven't worked as well together in the past.

00:05:25.920 And let's seize this moment to actually act like a nation and support each other.

00:05:30.160 I think that that is a very strong sentiment at the first minister's table,

00:05:34.500 and I think that he's getting that message from a lot of different viewpoints.

00:05:37.500 Let's admit off the top that the bar is pretty low following Justin Trudeau,

00:05:41.420 but Premier Smith does appear optimistic.

00:05:44.520 That's a good thing, I think.

00:05:46.560 The premiers will meet with Prime Minister Carney at the beginning of June,

00:05:49.680 not in Ottawa, as normally happens, but symbolically in Western Canada.

00:05:54.280 In Saskatoon, June 1st and 2nd.

00:05:56.440 We'll see at that point if Carney is still just mouthing nice words,

00:05:59.640 or if he's actually delivered something concrete, or is moving in that direction at least.

00:06:04.160 In addition to talking to Premier Smith, I wanted to get a liberal perspective on Alberta.

00:06:09.220 They are the party in charge federally after all,

00:06:11.840 and there are liberals in and from Western Canada.

00:06:15.160 Dan Arnold, who goes by the handle Calgary Grit on X,

00:06:18.680 is a proud Albertan and a proud liberal.

00:06:21.140 He spent several years running the polling for Justin Trudeau,

00:06:24.340 including many of those years in the Prime Minister's office.

00:06:27.260 I wanted his view on how the new liberal government could handle this issue better.

00:06:32.440 So, Dan, I'd like to get your thoughts on where we are right now.

00:06:38.200 I don't think that we've got a Western separatist movement

00:06:42.640 that is suddenly going to blow the barn doors off of Canada,

00:06:46.460 but we have seen an increase in sentiment.

00:06:48.320 We saw the Angus Reid poll that was out before the election

00:06:51.300 showing that 33% of people in Saskatchewan would vote for their province to become independent

00:06:59.180 if the Kearney Liberals won.

00:07:01.100 We saw the 30% in Alberta say the same thing.

00:07:06.440 National unity is not just a Quebec issue anymore.

00:07:12.400 If this is allowed to fester, we could end up in a pretty bad spot.

00:07:17.440 Yeah, I'd agree with that.

00:07:18.760 I don't think we're in a position where there's going to be a yes vote.

00:07:22.680 It doesn't feel like the winning conditions are there,

00:07:24.260 to take a phrase that Jacques Perrazo used to use.

00:07:26.880 Quebec came very close to a yes vote,

00:07:29.520 but that was on the heels of Meech and Charlottetown and a lot of unrest,

00:07:33.580 whereas at this moment right now,

00:07:35.900 Canada is all together against the U.S.,

00:07:38.800 and there's a bit of almost a nationalism boost that's happening right now

00:07:42.500 given everything that's going on south of the border.

00:07:44.140 So it doesn't feel like this is a moment where the conditions are there

00:07:48.360 for a successful yes vote in Saskatchewan or Alberta,

00:07:52.200 but it's fair to say that there's been a lot of resentment,

00:07:55.620 a lot of frustration bubbling through the surface for a long time out west.

00:08:00.860 Polaro does regular tracking on how Western Canadians feel

00:08:04.020 about their place in the federation,

00:08:07.020 and yes, support for separation is usually pretty low.

00:08:09.140 It's usually around 20% when we pull on the question,

00:08:11.000 but it's only about a third of Albertans who feel they're treated fairly

00:08:13.760 by the federal government.

00:08:14.840 So there is a sense that a lot of people feel like they're treated unfairly,

00:08:17.860 and I think that creates the level of frustration.

00:08:20.380 And if it gets stoked because of things the premier is doing,

00:08:23.340 because of referendums,

00:08:24.280 because of what the federal government does or doesn't do,

00:08:26.900 certainly that frustration could turn into something

00:08:29.100 a lot more dramatic in the long run.

00:08:32.660 Some of my colleagues in the commentariat class

00:08:35.160 are outright dismissive of this idea.

00:08:38.940 Some have mocked it.

00:08:40.240 I don't think that is the way to go,

00:08:42.720 and I don't think, I'll say this up front,

00:08:44.520 I don't think that is the attitude that Prime Minister Carney has taken.

00:08:47.780 In fact, I think it's a bold move and an interesting one

00:08:51.040 that he decided to host the first minister's meeting in Saskatoon.

00:08:54.680 Instead of saying, all right, all you peasants come to Ottawa, 0.99

00:08:57.560 he's going to them.

00:08:59.000 I think that that is a good move.

00:09:00.780 But what are the steps, the overtures, the olive branches

00:09:05.060 that this new government could extend to places like Alberta and Saskatchewan

00:09:10.420 to try and turn things around to lower the temperature?

00:09:13.920 Yeah, I've lived in Alberta for many years.

00:09:19.300 I've done a lot of research there.

00:09:21.080 My sense is that the move for separatism there

00:09:25.580 is not driven by a sense of necessarily unique culture or identity

00:09:29.200 the way that the move is in Quebec.

00:09:30.640 It's more stemming from a sense of people feeling alienated,

00:09:34.540 feeling like they're overlooked, like they're not listened to,

00:09:37.640 maybe even treated somewhat as second class

00:09:40.300 compared to people in other parts of the country.

00:09:42.020 So I think the antidote to that is a first step is just listening, right,

00:09:47.960 and spending time there showing that you are taking people seriously,

00:09:51.260 that you are listening to their concerns,

00:09:53.060 which is why I think doing things like having a first minister's meeting out west is good.

00:09:58.780 Certainly, Mark Carney, it sounds like his first call with Premier Smith

00:10:02.200 was positive on both sides.

00:10:04.340 I mean, she was still out two days later with her demands, 1.00

00:10:07.080 but nevertheless, she did say the call was positive.

00:10:08.860 And, you know, she was positive with me about the virtual first minister's meeting

00:10:14.620 after the White House visit and saying nice things about Mark Carney.

00:10:19.880 I mean, it wasn't just Doug Ford, it was Danielle Smith as well.

00:10:22.960 That's, I think, surprising a lot of people.

00:10:25.300 The first step is listening,

00:10:26.740 and I think Mark Carney seems to have that attitude, right?

00:10:31.720 He seems like he wants to listen.

00:10:32.880 And look, he's from Alberta, which is an interesting dynamic as well, too.

00:10:35.680 You know, I think in this situation of Trudeau as prime minister,

00:10:40.240 it will be harder to lower the temperature

00:10:42.080 because the Trudeau name carries a lot of baggage with it,

00:10:44.880 whereas Carney is somebody who has lived in Edmonton for a long time.

00:10:49.840 You know, it seems like somebody who maybe is better positioned

00:10:52.560 to show that understanding of Alberta

00:10:55.640 and, you know, maybe is the right person to lower the temperature at this moment.

00:10:59.140 Anything concrete other than in two months' time

00:11:03.080 showing up in Calgary in jeans and a silly hat?

00:11:07.420 And I'm sure he'll wear the Oilers jersey a few times 0.76

00:11:10.020 between now and then, too, as the playoffs go along.

00:11:13.660 He is an Oilers fan.

00:11:15.140 You know, absolutely he's an Oilers fan.

00:11:16.940 He's not just jumping on the bandwagon.

00:11:19.880 I'll cheer for the Oilers until they're facing off

00:11:21.860 against the Leafs in the Stanley Cup final.

00:11:23.460 Yeah, but beyond wardrobe that he's wearing,

00:11:27.620 yeah, what can he do at this stage?

00:11:29.120 I think, look...

00:11:29.640 So is there a way to open things up on the oil and gas sector?

00:11:33.920 I know he's been Mr. Net Zero in the past.

00:11:37.280 He kind of gave conflicting messages

00:11:39.200 to Western Canada and Quebec on that,

00:11:42.200 but is there a way for him to make a move

00:11:46.320 for the oil and gas sector

00:11:48.300 without losing the progressive coalition

00:11:51.260 that helped him win the election?

00:11:54.200 Well, I mean, that's the great challenge

00:11:55.480 that all prime ministers face

00:11:57.180 is those regional divisions.

00:11:59.340 And nowhere is that division more apparent

00:12:02.520 than when it gets to issues around environment

00:12:04.240 and the energy sector.

00:12:05.960 I think in most issues,

00:12:07.060 when you ask about healthcare,

00:12:08.500 you know, people don't feel that differently

00:12:09.660 in Alberta from Quebec.

00:12:10.560 When you ask about housing and cost of living,

00:12:13.280 like, it's easy to get consensus.

00:12:14.900 It's less easier to get consensus

00:12:16.140 on some of these other files.

00:12:17.960 Where there does seem to be some opening

00:12:19.860 is where Carney's talked about,

00:12:21.520 you know, energy corridors

00:12:22.600 and, you know, helping resources get to market.

00:12:26.020 He's certainly not anti-development.

00:12:28.320 He's not a keep the oil on the ground type of guy

00:12:30.440 from comments he's made before.

00:12:31.780 So I think there'll be some openness there.

00:12:34.220 But I think if we're being honest about it,

00:12:35.780 if you look at the full list of demands

00:12:37.620 that Daniel Smith put on the table,

00:12:38.940 he's not going to agree to all those things there.

00:12:40.460 He's not going to repeal the clean energy regulations.

00:12:42.160 He's not going to move away

00:12:43.580 from some of the net zero mandates.

00:12:45.400 So, you know, she's never going to get

00:12:47.480 everything she wants.

00:12:48.640 But I suspect there'll be some areas

00:12:50.440 where Carney might,

00:12:52.480 from his kind of pro-business perspective,

00:12:54.240 do some things that she might be happy about.

00:12:56.940 It might help lower the temperature a little bit.

00:12:59.260 The one thing that I've been hearing

00:13:00.960 from several premiers that I've spoken to

00:13:04.220 on the record and off

00:13:05.580 is that it is a very different tone.

00:13:08.000 The meetings don't begin with a lecture

00:13:10.180 from the prime minister anymore.

00:13:11.440 They begin with listening.

00:13:14.440 And so, you know, even politicians

00:13:16.540 that had a good relationship

00:13:17.900 with Prime Minister Trudeau

00:13:20.300 when he was in office

00:13:21.440 just feel better about the meetings now.

00:13:24.360 So that is a good thing.

00:13:25.980 You do a lot of deep dives

00:13:28.260 and your ex-feed was fantastic post-election

00:13:33.420 for trying to figure out a bit of

00:13:35.680 where things had moved.

00:13:38.420 For a little while,

00:13:39.400 it looked like the Liberals,

00:13:41.480 you know, there was talk

00:13:42.140 they could take five.

00:13:43.340 Some, I heard some people mistakenly say,

00:13:45.900 oh, they could get as many

00:13:46.680 as nine seats in Alberta.

00:13:48.140 I always thought that was crazy.

00:13:49.320 They did take one in Saskatchewan

00:13:51.280 that they didn't hold previously,

00:13:52.540 but they were kept to two in Alberta.

00:13:57.020 Did you do any deep dive

00:13:58.360 into how close they were

00:13:59.640 to taking more seats in that province?

00:14:02.220 Because with the expansion,

00:14:03.820 with more urban seats,

00:14:04.980 there is that potential.

00:14:06.360 Did they come close at all?

00:14:07.780 Or was that just pipe dreaming

00:14:10.120 that the people were engaged in

00:14:11.840 prior to the vote?

00:14:14.140 So the Liberal vote share

00:14:15.880 went up a lot

00:14:17.260 in both Saskatchewan and Alberta.

00:14:20.020 And, you know,

00:14:20.520 one of the things I did to comment on

00:14:21.660 was the writings of the Liberals

00:14:22.980 had their biggest gains

00:14:24.440 from 2021 to 2025.

00:14:26.380 I think three of the top five

00:14:27.520 were in Saskatchewan.

00:14:28.820 Saskatchewan University,

00:14:29.940 Regina Luvan were up there.

00:14:31.680 So, you know,

00:14:32.100 the Liberals,

00:14:32.520 they took a big step forward.

00:14:33.820 They got a lot more votes this election

00:14:35.060 in both provinces

00:14:35.780 than they did before.

00:14:36.920 It just didn't really translate

00:14:38.440 to seats at the end of the day.

00:14:40.080 I think they probably

00:14:40.580 would have needed

00:14:40.940 another five or ten points

00:14:42.220 of support

00:14:42.700 to actually turn that into seats.

00:14:44.880 You know,

00:14:45.080 the challenge is really

00:14:45.780 they just kind of ate up

00:14:46.760 the NDP vote

00:14:47.500 in Alberta and Saskatchewan.

00:14:49.080 And they actually need

00:14:50.140 to convert

00:14:50.880 some of those Conservative voters

00:14:52.160 into their side

00:14:53.800 to actually have a chance

00:14:54.760 to win more seats there.

00:14:56.240 Kind of the reverse

00:14:56.820 of the Conservatives in Ontario.

00:14:59.300 Yeah,

00:14:59.560 with the collapse of the PPC,

00:15:01.200 but, you know,

00:15:01.660 other votes don't go there.

00:15:02.700 So, yeah,

00:15:03.540 I think the Liberal brand

00:15:05.060 feels less toxic as a brand

00:15:06.860 now than it did

00:15:07.460 a couple of years ago.

00:15:08.440 Just if you look at the share

00:15:09.760 of the popular vote,

00:15:11.000 even if it didn't turn into seats,

00:15:12.340 and maybe that helps Carney

00:15:13.260 a little bit.

00:15:14.300 You know,

00:15:14.420 he's not,

00:15:15.140 his personal brand numbers,

00:15:16.820 if you ask,

00:15:17.380 are you favourable

00:15:17.860 or unfavourable

00:15:18.360 towards Mark Carney,

00:15:19.180 aren't terrible in Alberta

00:15:20.240 right now.

00:15:20.700 And that could obviously change

00:15:21.600 in a couple of years.

00:15:22.420 But I think he goes into it

00:15:23.980 as not the big bad in Ottawa,

00:15:25.960 which is often the case.

00:15:27.340 And, you know,

00:15:27.960 it's harder for Daniel Smith

00:15:29.180 to kind of hold him up

00:15:30.080 as this villain in the story,

00:15:32.140 at least until he does something

00:15:34.080 that maybe looks villainous,

00:15:35.400 right?

00:15:35.740 People are willing to give him

00:15:36.400 the benefit of the doubt,

00:15:37.200 even if they didn't vote for him.

00:15:38.600 And I think that,

00:15:39.480 that augurs well

00:15:40.580 for perhaps maybe having

00:15:41.680 some ability to work together

00:15:43.460 on some files between,

00:15:44.560 you know,

00:15:45.280 Carney and Moe and Smith.

00:15:46.640 Well,

00:15:47.080 as I said in my column

00:15:48.700 in the Toronto Sun

00:15:49.420 just a little while ago,

00:15:50.660 he's making the right noises.

00:15:52.500 By the time the

00:15:53.260 First Minister's meeting

00:15:54.400 happens at the beginning of June,

00:15:56.480 we'll know whether those noises

00:15:57.880 are just noise

00:15:58.920 or moving in a

00:16:00.400 serious policy direction.

00:16:03.140 Yeah,

00:16:03.600 I think that's right.

00:16:03.980 The first step is

00:16:04.960 it's symbolism.

00:16:06.060 It is listening.

00:16:07.320 The biggest frustration

00:16:09.200 point people have

00:16:09.940 is they don't feel listened to

00:16:10.900 often in Alberta and Saskatchewan.

00:16:12.520 So I think listening

00:16:13.080 is actually a tangible thing to do.

00:16:15.620 We'll see what happens

00:16:16.400 with cabinet appointments.

00:16:17.260 If there is a representative

00:16:18.740 from Alberta or Saskatchewan

00:16:20.280 in cabinet,

00:16:20.720 that could also give another voice 0.52

00:16:21.980 that could speak

00:16:22.600 with a bit more authority

00:16:23.760 on these issues.

00:16:25.260 But yeah,

00:16:25.860 eventually it's going to be

00:16:26.900 more about actually outcomes

00:16:28.620 as opposed to conversations.

00:16:31.180 And that's where I think

00:16:32.760 there will be more difficulty

00:16:34.160 because he's not going to do

00:16:35.620 everything Daniel Smith

00:16:36.420 wants to do.

00:16:37.540 A lot of the things

00:16:38.220 she wants to do

00:16:38.780 just are not broadly supported

00:16:40.640 by people nationally.

00:16:41.600 So it's going to be hard

00:16:42.260 for Carney to go along

00:16:43.180 with everything.

00:16:43.780 But I would be hopeful

00:16:44.900 there will be some areas

00:16:45.740 where he can make some moves

00:16:48.740 that will be well received

00:16:49.500 in Alberta.

00:16:49.960 And hopefully that lowers

00:16:50.540 the temperature to the point

00:16:51.480 where there isn't actually

00:16:52.440 a referendum.

00:16:53.600 Because I think the actual

00:16:54.180 nature of having a referendum

00:16:55.740 would really heat this issue

00:16:57.800 up even further.

00:16:59.500 It may not pass,

00:17:00.760 but it would be a very

00:17:02.160 potentially divisive moment

00:17:05.280 in Alberta and nationally

00:17:06.500 if it got to that point.

00:17:07.960 All right, Dan Arnold,

00:17:08.900 thanks so much.

00:17:10.340 Thanks for having me.

00:17:11.280 Finally, Preston Manning,

00:17:12.760 the man,

00:17:13.660 the force behind

00:17:14.460 the Reform Party,

00:17:15.340 which went from

00:17:15.880 a protest movement

00:17:16.760 to a fringe political party

00:17:18.240 to the official opposition

00:17:19.900 in short order

00:17:21.120 in the 1990s.

00:17:22.560 He's still politically involved.

00:17:24.200 He's still concerned

00:17:25.120 about Western Canada

00:17:26.140 and how they're being treated.

00:17:27.880 And he has some thoughts

00:17:28.880 on what should happen next.

00:17:30.880 Well, Mr. Manning,

00:17:32.040 you popularized the phrase

00:17:34.500 the West wants in

00:17:35.460 when you were leading

00:17:36.140 Reform Party

00:17:37.060 a long time ago.

00:17:40.340 Is that still what's going on

00:17:42.000 or does the West want out now?

00:17:44.640 Well, I think that question

00:17:46.100 is being raised.

00:17:47.440 I don't think it's been answered yet,

00:17:49.040 but there's a lot of unrest

00:17:50.720 in Western Canada,

00:17:52.920 mainly produced

00:17:54.240 by the nine years

00:17:56.660 of what Westerners

00:17:58.160 would consider

00:17:58.760 liberal misrule.

00:18:01.400 And that unrest

00:18:02.120 is not confined,

00:18:03.080 of course,

00:18:03.360 to Alberta.

00:18:04.920 It's across the West

00:18:06.320 and there's unrest

00:18:07.720 in Quebec as well.

00:18:08.920 So country has

00:18:10.840 a unity challenge.

00:18:13.320 Many people have said

00:18:14.580 that national unity

00:18:15.760 is one of the main

00:18:17.760 primary jobs

00:18:18.800 of any prime minister.

00:18:20.500 I don't think

00:18:21.140 that Justin Trudeau

00:18:21.900 took it very seriously.

00:18:23.120 He allowed Western alienation 0.64

00:18:24.780 to fester.

00:18:26.140 By the end of his time

00:18:28.080 in office,

00:18:28.960 the threat of Quebec separatism

00:18:31.280 and the rise

00:18:32.260 of the Parti Québécois

00:18:33.200 had come back.

00:18:34.700 The Bloc Québécois

00:18:35.500 was a major force

00:18:37.320 after being reduced

00:18:38.240 to just a handful of seats

00:18:40.120 by Stephen Harper

00:18:40.980 in 2011.

00:18:43.440 Justin Trudeau

00:18:44.400 just did not seem to care.

00:18:46.960 And in fact,

00:18:48.480 I would argue

00:18:49.200 that in the 2021 election,

00:18:51.620 he campaigned

00:18:52.480 against Alberta

00:18:53.220 to win seats

00:18:53.940 in B.C. and Ontario.

00:18:56.160 Yeah, he was not

00:18:57.540 conducive

00:18:58.620 to national unity.

00:19:00.740 I think any prime minister

00:19:02.340 to be able

00:19:03.840 to achieve

00:19:04.440 some genuine unity

00:19:05.760 needs to

00:19:06.560 almost formally

00:19:08.240 recognize

00:19:09.120 the regional

00:19:10.840 character of Canada.

00:19:12.140 Canada's a huge country

00:19:13.220 and it's in regions,

00:19:14.140 Atlantic,

00:19:14.500 Laurentian,

00:19:15.780 Prairie,

00:19:16.320 Pacific,

00:19:16.860 the North.

00:19:17.860 And what would be

00:19:18.880 very helpful

00:19:19.640 is a prime minister

00:19:20.480 who recognizes

00:19:22.100 that each of those regions

00:19:23.920 has distinctive,

00:19:25.680 to use the Quebec word,

00:19:27.340 aspirations and concerns

00:19:28.800 which have to be

00:19:29.780 dealt with

00:19:30.400 and acknowledged.

00:19:31.840 And liberal administrations

00:19:33.400 have done that

00:19:35.120 to some extent

00:19:35.900 with respect to

00:19:36.540 Atlantic Canada,

00:19:37.340 Laurentian Canada

00:19:38.040 has ignored

00:19:39.160 the Prairie region,

00:19:40.720 the B.C. region,

00:19:41.600 the Pacific Coast region,

00:19:42.780 and the North.

00:19:44.900 And it's to be seen

00:19:46.740 whether a new government

00:19:48.140 has any better recognition

00:19:50.540 of the aspirations

00:19:51.480 and concerns

00:19:52.060 of those regions.

00:19:53.560 I hope so.

00:19:54.180 I hope so.

00:19:55.480 Some of the Laurentian elite,

00:19:58.860 to use a well-known term,

00:20:01.940 have been highly critical

00:20:03.320 of you

00:20:03.860 and your thoughts

00:20:05.360 surrounding this

00:20:06.620 during the course

00:20:07.820 of the election,

00:20:09.060 accusing you of,

00:20:10.240 you know,

00:20:11.600 fomenting separation,

00:20:13.660 fomenting the breakup

00:20:14.900 of the country.

00:20:16.620 Is that what you're

00:20:17.800 trying to do

00:20:19.000 or what is it

00:20:19.920 that you're trying to do?

00:20:20.880 No, of course not, Brian.

00:20:21.800 And they don't know

00:20:22.820 what my positions are.

00:20:24.940 Give me the name

00:20:25.880 of one of those elites

00:20:27.040 that had actually called me

00:20:28.280 and asked

00:20:28.780 what my positions were.

00:20:30.880 Not a single one.

00:20:32.660 What they do know

00:20:34.200 is a bit from,

00:20:35.260 indirectly,

00:20:35.780 from the media.

00:20:37.100 One of the things

00:20:37.840 I'm trying to do is,

00:20:38.880 and whether this comes about

00:20:40.620 is still a question,

00:20:41.740 is to create

00:20:42.320 what we're calling

00:20:43.580 a Canada West Assembly

00:20:45.860 where you'd get people

00:20:48.180 from the four western provinces

00:20:49.660 and the territories together

00:20:51.040 and then invite

00:20:52.220 these different groups

00:20:53.260 that have perspectives

00:20:54.300 on what the West

00:20:55.280 should be doing

00:20:56.000 in the future

00:20:56.700 to make formal representation,

00:20:59.260 to be subject

00:20:59.940 to cross-examination

00:21:01.300 like you should be

00:21:02.120 in a democratic forum,

00:21:03.540 to listen to the positions

00:21:04.940 of others,

00:21:05.900 and then take a straw vote

00:21:07.060 at the end

00:21:07.640 and make some recommendations

00:21:08.840 to the provincial governments.

00:21:10.760 And those options

00:21:11.700 that will be considered

00:21:12.440 will be everything

00:21:13.140 from the status quo

00:21:14.280 to the status quo

00:21:15.260 modified by the demands

00:21:18.180 of the western provinces,

00:21:20.040 modified perhaps

00:21:21.180 by what the new federal government says,

00:21:23.640 and will include these options

00:21:25.600 for secession in various forms

00:21:28.040 so that you get them

00:21:29.060 out of the back rooms

00:21:29.960 and get them into

00:21:31.220 a democratic arena

00:21:32.320 where they're tested.

00:21:33.160 That's the democratic way

00:21:35.500 to deal with unrest,

00:21:37.080 and I would say

00:21:38.400 that's more conducive

00:21:39.600 to unifying the countries

00:21:40.940 and denying that these concerns

00:21:43.540 or aspirations exist.

00:21:45.800 I think that's part

00:21:46.720 of the problem

00:21:47.300 is that far too many people

00:21:48.740 do just want to deny

00:21:51.960 that these problems exist

00:21:53.920 or that it's just,

00:21:56.660 well, you know,

00:21:57.780 you guys out West,

00:21:59.000 you just hate liberals, 0.69

00:22:00.000 and you can't take liberals winning,

00:22:02.580 and that's why you want

00:22:03.640 to take your ball

00:22:04.420 and go home.

00:22:06.760 You know,

00:22:07.400 I've spoken to people

00:22:08.680 who have voted

00:22:09.860 for all the parties

00:22:10.860 in the prairies

00:22:11.520 over the years,

00:22:13.300 over their lifetimes,

00:22:14.780 and, you know,

00:22:16.640 when you talk to them,

00:22:17.840 you find out

00:22:18.400 that many of them,

00:22:19.160 yeah, now they're voting

00:22:20.180 for conservatives

00:22:22.220 or conservative-leaning parties,

00:22:23.980 but they didn't start out that way,

00:22:25.260 and part of the reason

00:22:25.980 that they're doing that

00:22:26.720 is they feel

00:22:27.140 that's the only party

00:22:28.100 willing to listen

00:22:29.700 to what the concerns

00:22:30.780 of farmers

00:22:32.940 or ranchers

00:22:33.960 or people

00:22:34.820 in the natural resource industry

00:22:36.220 in Manitoba, Saskatchewan,

00:22:37.660 or Alberta,

00:22:38.360 that, you know,

00:22:39.240 the other guys

00:22:40.300 are just dismissive.

00:22:42.280 They look past them.

00:22:43.300 It's flyover country to them.

00:22:45.660 Yeah, it's a worry

00:22:46.800 to me, Brian,

00:22:47.840 the apparent

00:22:51.000 utter indifference

00:22:52.540 of not just the parties,

00:22:56.360 but of the voters

00:22:57.720 in central Canada

00:23:00.640 to these concerns

00:23:02.260 in western Canada

00:23:03.680 where you have an industry,

00:23:05.820 particularly the natural resource industry,

00:23:07.820 that is carrying

00:23:08.440 a lot of the freight

00:23:09.440 to the Canadian economy

00:23:10.700 and generating

00:23:12.280 a lot of the revenue

00:23:13.240 for that federal government

00:23:14.300 that is redistributed

00:23:15.320 to other places.

00:23:16.900 And a sign

00:23:17.940 that the next parliament

00:23:19.760 and the next government

00:23:20.800 is acknowledging

00:23:22.900 these concerns,

00:23:23.780 one of the big ones

00:23:25.200 would be

00:23:25.920 an act

00:23:27.760 to reduce

00:23:28.520 the intrusiveness

00:23:29.580 of the federal government

00:23:30.900 in the natural resources sector.

00:23:32.840 That's one of the biggest

00:23:33.900 sources of frustration.

00:23:35.420 Does that,

00:23:36.100 I read your comments

00:23:37.560 on that.

00:23:38.560 Does it actually need

00:23:39.780 to be a piece of legislation?

00:23:40.980 Does it need

00:23:41.460 to be an act?

00:23:42.700 Or does it just need

00:23:44.280 to be

00:23:44.820 that the federal government

00:23:46.520 starts

00:23:47.120 respecting the constitution,

00:23:49.580 the division of powers?

00:23:50.880 Well, you could say that.

00:23:51.900 You could put it that way, yes.

00:23:53.480 But what do they do?

00:23:56.320 They can say

00:23:56.980 they're going to

00:23:57.960 respect the constitution,

00:24:01.120 but a sign

00:24:01.720 that they're doing so,

00:24:03.120 the federal government's intrusion

00:24:05.500 in areas

00:24:06.080 of provincial responsibility

00:24:07.220 is done

00:24:07.820 through statutes

00:24:08.760 that authorize

00:24:09.620 the intrusion

00:24:10.660 in the health field,

00:24:12.440 by the Health Act,

00:24:13.640 in the resources sector,

00:24:14.860 by the Impact Assessment Act,

00:24:17.480 by Bill C-69,

00:24:18.640 in the municipal affairs,

00:24:21.560 which is exclusively

00:24:22.640 a provincial responsibility

00:24:23.840 through the legislation

00:24:25.340 that establishes

00:24:26.360 the Canada Mortgage Bank.

00:24:29.620 Most recently,

00:24:30.800 the Housing Accelerator Fund.

00:24:32.460 Yeah, yeah.

00:24:33.320 And if the federal government

00:24:35.000 wanted to send a signal

00:24:36.400 that it's prepared

00:24:37.840 to withdraw

00:24:39.640 from those areas,

00:24:40.960 that would do a lot

00:24:42.160 to heal relationships,

00:24:44.340 not just with Alberta

00:24:45.800 and the Prairie Provinces.

00:24:46.820 The federal government's

00:24:48.040 got to fight

00:24:48.580 with almost every

00:24:49.820 provincial government.

00:24:50.740 Federal-provincial relations

00:24:51.860 are in a shambles,

00:24:52.860 partly thanks to Tudor,

00:24:54.040 and one way to fix that

00:24:55.780 is to withdraw

00:24:56.320 from those areas.

00:24:58.220 And people will be

00:24:59.120 watching the throne speech

00:25:00.280 to see not just

00:25:01.320 whether there's nice words,

00:25:03.020 not just whether

00:25:03.840 someone comes out

00:25:04.780 of a press conference

00:25:05.620 and says,

00:25:06.140 we're going to do something.

00:25:07.660 Your parliament

00:25:08.860 is a place

00:25:10.200 that makes

00:25:10.760 or unmakes laws,

00:25:12.300 so let's make the law

00:25:14.520 that corrects

00:25:16.020 some of these worries.

00:25:19.480 You mentioned

00:25:20.080 that they've got to fight

00:25:20.920 with every provincial government.

00:25:23.800 While Alberta

00:25:24.720 has taken the lead

00:25:25.660 in being critical

00:25:26.400 of Bill C-69,

00:25:28.620 every provincial government,

00:25:30.240 New Democrat,

00:25:31.160 Liberal,

00:25:31.980 Conservative-leaning,

00:25:33.560 joined in that fight.

00:25:34.800 They joined the court

00:25:35.640 reference case

00:25:36.700 to try and have

00:25:38.020 that law struck down

00:25:39.040 because it's,

00:25:40.280 while it's dubbed

00:25:40.980 the No More Pipelines bill,

00:25:42.720 it's getting in the way

00:25:44.220 of the Ring of Fire

00:25:45.060 in Ontario,

00:25:45.660 it's getting in the way

00:25:46.800 of mining operations

00:25:48.340 in British Columbia,

00:25:49.200 which is still led

00:25:50.240 by an NDP government.

00:25:52.760 You know,

00:25:53.000 there isn't a provincial government

00:25:55.340 that isn't affected by this.

00:25:56.860 Yeah,

00:25:57.020 and one of the things

00:25:58.200 I think that would be helpful,

00:25:59.680 Brian,

00:26:00.020 is this country

00:26:01.700 is the second largest country

00:26:03.140 by landmass

00:26:04.220 in the world

00:26:05.080 that therefore

00:26:05.780 has either the largest

00:26:07.160 or the second largest

00:26:08.240 stock of natural resources,

00:26:10.860 agriculture,

00:26:11.580 energy,

00:26:11.900 mining,

00:26:12.680 forestry,

00:26:13.100 and the fishery.

00:26:14.360 And we need

00:26:16.080 a federal government

00:26:16.820 that recognizes

00:26:17.860 those sectors

00:26:19.100 as fundamental

00:26:19.960 building blocks

00:26:21.260 of the Canadian economy

00:26:22.460 and any economic recovery.

00:26:24.680 And Trudeau,

00:26:25.440 particularly,

00:26:26.020 treated them

00:26:26.480 as relics from the past

00:26:27.800 or even environmental liabilities.

00:26:31.120 And when you talk

00:26:32.780 about those sectors

00:26:33.620 to urban voters,

00:26:35.140 some of them,

00:26:35.600 when you mention agriculture,

00:26:36.760 we think,

00:26:37.120 well,

00:26:37.220 that's cows in the field

00:26:38.280 and grain.

00:26:39.740 No,

00:26:39.980 no,

00:26:40.160 no.

00:26:40.320 The agricultural producing

00:26:41.760 sector is at the bottom.

00:26:42.940 There's an agriculture

00:26:43.660 manufacturing sector

00:26:45.020 on top of that.

00:26:45.720 There's an agricultural

00:26:46.520 service sector

00:26:47.700 on top of that.

00:26:48.440 There's an agricultural

00:26:49.180 knowledge sector

00:26:49.960 on top of that.

00:26:50.920 And there's a pyramid

00:26:51.660 like that on top

00:26:52.500 of every one

00:26:53.180 of those resource sectors.

00:26:54.260 and 90% of those

00:26:55.880 other jobs,

00:26:56.720 manufacturing,

00:26:57.520 processing,

00:26:57.960 and the knowledge sector

00:26:59.640 are in urban centers.

00:27:01.280 So virtually every Canadian

00:27:03.220 has a vested interest

00:27:04.960 in the health

00:27:05.540 and development

00:27:06.040 of those sectors.

00:27:07.160 And when you have

00:27:07.540 a federal government

00:27:08.300 that denies that,

00:27:09.660 ignores that,

00:27:10.560 and even gets in the way

00:27:12.040 of those developments,

00:27:13.480 that's what's crippled

00:27:14.500 the Canadian economy,

00:27:15.520 reduced our GDP

00:27:16.420 to where it is.

00:27:18.200 Well,

00:27:18.740 they look upon it

00:27:19.440 as if we are pursuing

00:27:22.120 those industries,

00:27:22.940 then we're still

00:27:23.580 just being drawers

00:27:25.040 of water

00:27:25.640 and hewers of wood

00:27:26.680 and that isn't

00:27:27.760 what we should be doing.

00:27:28.720 That is a hundred-year-old fallacy.

00:27:34.080 How can you say that

00:27:35.280 when there,

00:27:36.200 has anybody looked

00:27:37.380 at the manufacturing sectors

00:27:40.860 that are on top

00:27:41.820 of those resource sectors?

00:27:43.440 Did anybody look

00:27:44.260 at the service sectors

00:27:45.380 that are on top of those

00:27:46.180 which employ more people

00:27:47.380 than down below

00:27:48.200 the knowledge sectors?

00:27:49.780 How can anyone still

00:27:51.240 adhere to that view?

00:27:53.340 And if they do,

00:27:54.140 they ought not to have

00:27:55.020 any business

00:27:55.580 in the Parliament of Canada.

00:27:57.220 Well,

00:27:57.540 I don't know how many years

00:27:59.660 I spent listening to people,

00:28:01.380 even,

00:28:01.820 you know,

00:28:03.000 politicians dismissing

00:28:04.180 the manufacturing sector,

00:28:05.600 which,

00:28:06.420 we've got a premier

00:28:07.320 in Ontario now

00:28:08.180 that champions it

00:28:09.120 and,

00:28:10.160 you know,

00:28:11.140 but for the longest time

00:28:11.980 it was,

00:28:13.040 well,

00:28:13.480 you know,

00:28:13.960 we need to focus

00:28:14.940 on the knowledge economy.

00:28:16.180 And,

00:28:17.440 you know,

00:28:17.800 we learned to code,

00:28:19.060 you know,

00:28:19.740 buzz phrases like that.

00:28:21.280 They didn't care

00:28:22.600 about manufacturing.

00:28:24.020 They didn't care

00:28:25.160 about resources.

00:28:26.520 They didn't care

00:28:27.280 about ag.

00:28:28.060 I mean,

00:28:28.200 that's something done

00:28:28.920 out in the country

00:28:29.500 somewhere,

00:28:29.880 right?

00:28:30.580 That's where I,

00:28:31.580 you know,

00:28:31.760 the stuff that happens

00:28:32.580 on my drive

00:28:33.260 to the cottage,

00:28:34.060 maybe.

00:28:35.680 Well,

00:28:36.280 that's,

00:28:36.780 if those views prevail,

00:28:38.580 that's why

00:28:39.320 the Canadian economy

00:28:40.540 will malfunction.

00:28:42.520 And it's the neglect,

00:28:44.760 not just the neglect

00:28:45.560 of those sectors

00:28:46.300 by the federal government,

00:28:48.240 but the putting obstruction

00:28:50.340 in the way

00:28:51.720 of their development

00:28:52.480 that is causing

00:28:53.220 a great deal

00:28:53.940 of this frustration

00:28:55.440 in Western Canada.

00:28:57.920 And the different responses

00:29:01.140 are that the premiers,

00:29:02.640 particularly Premier Smith

00:29:03.940 and Premier Moe

00:29:04.780 of Saskatchewan,

00:29:05.520 have put out

00:29:05.960 a list of things

00:29:06.920 that if the federal government

00:29:08.040 would do those,

00:29:09.040 it would alleviate

00:29:09.660 some of this unrest

00:29:11.540 in the West.

00:29:13.240 So when I spoke

00:29:15.300 to Premier Smith

00:29:16.220 the other day,

00:29:18.440 she said that she put forward

00:29:20.460 her nine proposals

00:29:21.320 and Prime Minister Carney

00:29:22.620 didn't say no

00:29:23.380 to any of them,

00:29:24.060 but he didn't say yes.

00:29:25.740 Does she need to get 0.52

00:29:27.020 all of her demands met?

00:29:29.600 Does Premier Moe

00:29:30.600 need to get all

00:29:31.260 of his demands met?

00:29:32.240 Or are there simple things

00:29:34.460 that this new government

00:29:36.540 can do

00:29:37.240 to extend an olive branch

00:29:38.780 and show, 0.77

00:29:40.420 yes,

00:29:40.660 we understand.

00:29:41.540 Yes,

00:29:41.740 we're going to move on this.

00:29:42.660 We won't give you everything,

00:29:44.020 but we're going to make

00:29:44.620 some moves.

00:29:45.380 But Brian,

00:29:45.620 they have to do something.

00:29:47.980 And that's what I'm asking.

00:29:49.180 What could they do

00:29:50.420 to extend that olive branch?

00:29:53.040 Well,

00:29:53.500 introduce legislation

00:29:55.780 or orders in council

00:29:56.700 to eliminate those barriers

00:29:58.920 that are frustrating Westerners.

00:30:00.740 But do it.

00:30:02.000 Not just talk about it

00:30:03.780 in speeches,

00:30:05.140 come out of meetings

00:30:06.680 and say these things

00:30:08.120 to the media.

00:30:08.820 Go and do it.

00:30:10.220 If you're a member

00:30:10.940 of the Parliament of Canada,

00:30:11.940 and I used to be one,

00:30:13.160 you make laws.

00:30:14.980 You're the only ones,

00:30:16.060 in fact,

00:30:16.420 in the country

00:30:16.880 that can make federal law.

00:30:18.380 So go and do it.

00:30:20.260 And if it's your laws

00:30:21.380 that are the obstructions,

00:30:23.000 as the Impact Assessment Act is,

00:30:26.300 as Bill 69 is,

00:30:27.540 then either repeal them

00:30:28.880 or amend them

00:30:29.580 to reduce the intrusiveness.

00:30:31.500 And I think

00:30:32.140 what's making Westerners 0.96

00:30:33.360 increasingly impatient

00:30:34.360 is talk, talk, talk

00:30:35.780 about these things.

00:30:36.800 Say we're going to do things,

00:30:38.020 promise things,

00:30:38.720 but no action on them.

00:30:41.480 And that would be

00:30:42.960 the simplest thing

00:30:43.740 the federal government

00:30:44.480 can do.

00:30:45.300 And the options

00:30:46.240 that Westerners

00:30:46.840 will be looking at,

00:30:47.500 one is whether

00:30:48.100 these conditions

00:30:48.860 that Premier Smith,

00:30:51.020 and I'm a great supporter

00:30:52.180 of what she's doing,

00:30:53.860 whether there's a response

00:30:55.300 from the federal government,

00:30:56.600 whether the federal government

00:30:57.620 itself takes some initiative

00:30:59.080 on these areas,

00:31:00.280 which maybe will be

00:31:01.480 in the throne speech.

00:31:02.340 I don't know.

00:31:02.780 People will be watching.

00:31:03.580 But if there's nothing there,

00:31:05.660 you're going to see

00:31:06.240 an increase in this desire

00:31:09.040 to maybe the West

00:31:10.460 should be more independent

00:31:11.580 from the Federation

00:31:12.960 than it is now.

00:31:14.260 And you've got

00:31:15.120 the same frustration

00:31:16.120 in Quebec

00:31:16.640 on a different set of issues.

00:31:19.200 Well, we've got some polling

00:31:20.100 that I'd like to ask you

00:31:21.020 about when we come back.

00:31:22.060 We're going to take

00:31:22.560 a quick break.

00:31:23.600 And when we come back,

00:31:24.720 I want to ask you about

00:31:25.540 how seriously

00:31:27.140 other Canadians

00:31:28.180 are taking it

00:31:28.760 and whether

00:31:29.400 people who are

00:31:31.240 talking about independence

00:31:32.300 are playing with fire.

00:31:34.280 Back in moments.

00:31:35.860 Whether you own

00:31:36.800 a bustling hair salon,

00:31:38.480 a painting company

00:31:41.940 that just landed

00:31:42.840 a big job,

00:31:44.200 or the hottest

00:31:47.440 new bakery in town,

00:31:49.160 you need business insurance

00:31:52.420 that can keep up

00:31:53.260 with your evolving needs.

00:31:54.760 With flexible coverage options

00:31:56.100 from TD Insurance,

00:31:57.420 you only pay

00:31:58.260 for what you need.

00:32:00.040 Get a quote in minutes

00:32:01.020 from TD Insurance

00:32:02.260 today.

00:32:03.300 TD.

00:32:04.520 Ready for you.

00:32:05.820 This is Tristan Hopper,

00:32:06.940 the host of

00:32:07.380 Canada Did What?

00:32:08.500 where we unpack

00:32:09.520 the biggest,

00:32:10.340 weirdest,

00:32:10.820 and wildest political moments

00:32:12.300 in Canadian history

00:32:13.180 you thought you knew

00:32:14.300 and tell you

00:32:15.280 what really happened.

00:32:16.800 Stick around

00:32:17.500 at the end of the episode

00:32:18.400 to hear a sample

00:32:19.200 of one of our

00:32:19.900 favorite episodes.

00:32:21.260 If you don't want

00:32:22.280 to stick around,

00:32:22.980 make sure you subscribe

00:32:24.100 to Canada Did What?

00:32:25.720 everywhere you get podcasts.

00:32:27.560 New polling

00:32:28.100 published in National Post

00:32:30.000 for the Association

00:32:31.380 of Canadian Studies

00:32:32.380 shows that 52%

00:32:33.800 of Canadians

00:32:34.380 do actually believe

00:32:35.320 that Western separation

00:32:36.580 is an issue

00:32:37.860 to be taken seriously.

00:32:39.880 Mr. Manning,

00:32:40.920 you're talking about

00:32:41.800 the Citizens Assembly.

00:32:43.260 How would that differ

00:32:44.280 from the Alberta

00:32:45.900 Next panel

00:32:46.760 that Premier Smith

00:32:48.380 is putting together?

00:32:49.220 Well, for one thing,

00:32:50.760 if this assembly

00:32:51.780 comes about,

00:32:53.640 it would be

00:32:54.000 a pan-Western assembly,

00:32:56.900 not just Alberta,

00:32:58.180 because these sentiments

00:32:59.200 exist in Saskatchewan,

00:33:02.000 in a lot of rural Manitoba,

00:33:04.000 and eastern, central,

00:33:06.180 and northern British Columbia.

00:33:08.140 So this assembly,

00:33:09.540 if it occurs,

00:33:10.260 would be a pan-Western,

00:33:11.600 not just Alberta.

00:33:13.220 And this is an important thing,

00:33:14.480 I think,

00:33:14.800 for people in central Canada

00:33:16.540 to understand,

00:33:17.540 although Alberta gets

00:33:18.640 a lot of the publicity,

00:33:19.780 these sentiments

00:33:20.320 are a lot broader

00:33:21.160 than Alberta.

00:33:21.860 So this would be

00:33:22.400 pan-Western assembly.

00:33:24.220 And basically,

00:33:25.200 it would be just

00:33:25.800 an opportunity

00:33:26.500 for the proponents

00:33:27.900 of the major options

00:33:29.280 featuring,

00:33:31.220 that the West

00:33:32.180 is considering

00:33:33.680 to be presented,

00:33:35.220 cross-examined,

00:33:36.340 debated,

00:33:36.860 and votes taken,

00:33:37.660 which of these

00:33:38.180 ought to be,

00:33:39.160 if any,

00:33:39.760 recommended

00:33:40.200 to the provincial government.

00:33:41.400 So the panel

00:33:42.600 that Premier Smith

00:33:44.520 is talking about

00:33:45.360 would, of course,

00:33:45.900 be welcome

00:33:46.440 to make one

00:33:47.120 of these presentations.

00:33:48.280 This is what

00:33:48.780 they found

00:33:49.500 with respect to Alberta.

00:33:50.960 There would be

00:33:51.500 similar presentations,

00:33:52.700 maybe from the other provinces.

00:33:54.280 And the idea

00:33:55.000 would be to get

00:33:55.700 these people

00:33:56.300 that are talking

00:33:56.920 about secession

00:33:57.800 and have not

00:33:58.940 thought it through

00:33:59.640 in many cases

00:34:00.700 exactly what that means.

00:34:02.220 Let that get

00:34:03.320 out of the back rooms

00:34:04.520 onto a democratic forum,

00:34:06.420 cross-examine,

00:34:07.660 and look at

00:34:08.320 the practicalities

00:34:09.280 and the process

00:34:09.840 and the minuses

00:34:10.620 doing that.

00:34:11.900 And hopefully,

00:34:13.360 this would provide

00:34:14.240 a democratic way

00:34:15.860 of dealing

00:34:16.300 with these frustrations

00:34:18.460 and leading

00:34:18.940 to recommendations

00:34:19.760 that would be useful

00:34:20.940 to the provincial governments.

00:34:23.020 But are you

00:34:23.760 playing with fire

00:34:24.700 a little bit

00:34:25.400 on this issue?

00:34:27.220 If you start

00:34:28.480 platforming people

00:34:30.300 that do want

00:34:31.020 to break up the country,

00:34:31.900 if you're

00:34:32.400 putting forward

00:34:33.620 a forum

00:34:34.680 for them to explain

00:34:35.680 why the country

00:34:36.220 should be broken up,

00:34:37.120 and I know

00:34:37.660 there's different factions.

00:34:39.080 You're playing with fire

00:34:40.120 if you suppress them.

00:34:41.860 You're playing with fire

00:34:42.900 if you suppress them.

00:34:44.120 And why the double standard?

00:34:45.520 Why is it okay

00:34:46.260 to have these open debates

00:34:47.520 in Quebec

00:34:47.960 and have them

00:34:48.780 for 20 years?

00:34:49.680 Why is that okay?

00:34:50.800 Why is that legitimate?

00:34:52.580 But if Western Canada

00:34:53.680 even considers that,

00:34:54.820 this is some

00:34:55.720 illegitimate practice.

00:34:58.820 The West simply 0.69

00:34:59.560 doesn't buy that.

00:35:00.820 And my fear is

00:35:01.840 if you try to suppress

00:35:02.940 these more radical views

00:35:04.520 and keep them

00:35:05.020 in the back room

00:35:05.660 and say,

00:35:06.460 despite the fact

00:35:07.400 that we're a democracy,

00:35:08.440 we're this freedom

00:35:08.960 of expression,

00:35:09.700 you can't do that here,

00:35:10.840 that causes 0.52

00:35:12.400 internal combustion

00:35:13.660 that is more dangerous

00:35:15.100 than exposing

00:35:16.360 these things.

00:35:18.480 I'm watching

00:35:19.340 the different factions

00:35:20.220 primarily from Alberta

00:35:21.660 talk about this,

00:35:25.800 although I do recall

00:35:26.980 interviewing the people

00:35:27.780 from the Maverick Party

00:35:28.820 or what was the Wexit Party

00:35:30.540 that became Maverick,

00:35:32.080 and some of their

00:35:32.840 main organizers

00:35:33.620 were originally

00:35:34.340 from Saskatchewan,

00:35:35.340 but in Alberta

00:35:36.260 it's getting a lot

00:35:37.040 of the attention.

00:35:38.840 There are different factions

00:35:40.260 even within the

00:35:41.020 independence movement.

00:35:42.080 There are those

00:35:42.620 who want what Quebec

00:35:43.780 once described

00:35:44.920 as sovereignty association,

00:35:47.060 you know,

00:35:47.920 more independence

00:35:48.840 but still part of Canada.

00:35:50.400 There are people

00:35:51.020 arguing that Alberta

00:35:52.700 should just become

00:35:53.380 its own independent country,

00:35:54.840 and then there are others,

00:35:56.080 and I think this might

00:35:56.960 be the smallest group,

00:35:58.000 but things can change

00:35:59.220 and grow,

00:36:00.280 is the group

00:36:01.460 that wants to join

00:36:02.280 the United States.

00:36:03.720 What would you say

00:36:05.340 to those who,

00:36:06.440 because I believe

00:36:08.200 that you still believe

00:36:09.240 in a united Canada,

00:36:10.600 what would your argument

00:36:11.720 be to those

00:36:12.640 in the groups

00:36:13.640 that either want

00:36:14.300 to make Alberta

00:36:15.560 independent

00:36:16.220 or to join

00:36:17.720 the United States?

00:36:18.820 Well, I'd say

00:36:19.200 get your act together.

00:36:20.620 First of all,

00:36:21.160 there's about 10

00:36:21.940 of these groups

00:36:22.680 in Alberta

00:36:23.200 and maybe four

00:36:24.080 in Saskatchewan.

00:36:25.660 Get your act together

00:36:26.760 so there's a couple

00:36:27.760 of major presentations

00:36:29.020 of your postures.

00:36:30.680 The main one

00:36:31.500 would be to secede

00:36:32.580 to create

00:36:33.020 an independent country.

00:36:34.020 The second one

00:36:35.000 might be to secede

00:36:36.080 in with the aim

00:36:37.160 of joining

00:36:37.600 the United States.

00:36:38.480 Get that proposal

00:36:39.560 as refined

00:36:42.000 and thought through

00:36:43.740 as you can

00:36:44.380 and then make

00:36:45.100 a presentation

00:36:45.680 of that

00:36:46.280 to this assembly

00:36:47.100 and I say

00:36:48.540 to those people

00:36:49.200 and I have said

00:36:49.840 it to some

00:36:50.240 of those people,

00:36:51.240 you'll get a chance

00:36:52.240 to have your say

00:36:53.020 and you won't be

00:36:53.580 pushed in the back room

00:36:54.560 and say we can't

00:36:55.180 talk about that here

00:36:55.980 but your proposal

00:36:57.200 would be subjected

00:36:58.020 to cross-examination

00:36:59.320 by people who know

00:37:00.500 a lot about this subject.

00:37:02.120 You know a lot

00:37:02.700 about the subject

00:37:03.360 so what would

00:37:03.880 your cross-examination

00:37:04.960 be for arguing

00:37:06.800 in favour

00:37:07.380 of a united Canada?

00:37:08.840 Well the cross-examination

00:37:10.140 wouldn't be to argue

00:37:11.220 in favour or against

00:37:12.400 it would be expose

00:37:13.240 the pros and the cons

00:37:14.340 of both sides

00:37:14.980 so that the people

00:37:15.700 in this assembly

00:37:16.460 can make a judgement

00:37:17.360 on it.

00:37:18.020 It's what Jefferson

00:37:18.800 called informing

00:37:19.780 the discretion

00:37:20.600 which is an interesting

00:37:22.140 phrase.

00:37:22.700 It doesn't mean

00:37:23.120 telling people

00:37:23.920 what to do

00:37:24.500 it says give them

00:37:25.200 the tools

00:37:25.680 and the information

00:37:26.360 so they can make

00:37:27.360 a right decision

00:37:28.140 and you know

00:37:30.700 if you had

00:37:31.660 cross-examination

00:37:32.640 of these options

00:37:33.960 one of the issues

00:37:35.260 that come up

00:37:36.220 is access to seaboard

00:37:37.840 if you're independent

00:37:39.120 if it's okay

00:37:40.600 it's BC

00:37:41.160 and Manitoba's engaged

00:37:43.180 but if they're not

00:37:43.840 what about that?

00:37:45.060 What about the status

00:37:45.900 of Aboriginal

00:37:46.820 of Indigenous people

00:37:48.180 who have treaty

00:37:49.220 arrangements

00:37:49.920 with the federal

00:37:50.700 government?

00:37:51.800 We ran into this

00:37:52.680 I was in Ottawa

00:37:53.440 in 1995

00:37:54.200 when the Quebec

00:37:55.220 referendum

00:37:56.280 was posited

00:37:58.240 and we had

00:37:58.860 Northern Cree

00:37:59.560 come and sit

00:38:00.220 in our office

00:38:00.800 and say

00:38:01.160 we don't care

00:38:01.820 what these

00:38:02.380 people in Quebec

00:38:03.640 vote

00:38:04.080 we are going

00:38:04.620 to be part

00:38:05.120 of Canada

00:38:05.560 and the federal

00:38:06.320 government

00:38:06.660 is responsible

00:38:07.360 for us

00:38:07.780 this is all

00:38:08.300 those types

00:38:08.780 of issues

00:38:09.220 and the important

00:38:11.060 thing is to get

00:38:11.780 cross-examination

00:38:12.820 get the pros

00:38:13.860 and the cons out

00:38:14.620 and those will not

00:38:16.080 be the major

00:38:16.840 issues

00:38:17.300 they'll be

00:38:17.960 major proposals

00:38:19.660 at this

00:38:20.520 assembly

00:38:21.900 I would assume

00:38:22.480 the major ones

00:38:23.280 are the position

00:38:24.040 that Premier Smith

00:38:26.200 and Premier

00:38:26.820 Moe has taken 0.96

00:38:27.900 here's a list

00:38:29.680 of conditions

00:38:30.340 that if the

00:38:31.040 federal government

00:38:31.700 met them

00:38:32.340 the west

00:38:32.800 would feel

00:38:33.240 more at home

00:38:33.820 in the federation

00:38:34.500 are they

00:38:35.040 or are they

00:38:35.500 not being met

00:38:36.580 there may be

00:38:37.600 some initiatives

00:38:38.300 come from

00:38:38.800 the federal

00:38:39.260 government

00:38:40.380 the new government

00:38:41.060 in the throne

00:38:41.640 speech

00:38:41.980 so if there is

00:38:43.120 that might be

00:38:43.820 a sort of

00:38:44.160 a second set

00:38:45.060 of options

00:38:45.760 so the idea

00:38:47.140 is to have

00:38:47.680 a democratic

00:38:48.380 discussion

00:38:49.420 of these options

00:38:50.120 and there's not

00:38:50.620 very many places

00:38:51.580 today where you

00:38:52.140 can have them

00:38:52.740 you certainly

00:38:53.340 can't have them

00:38:54.020 in the Parliament

00:38:54.560 of Canada

00:38:55.140 which is

00:38:56.840 sad and ironic

00:38:58.220 which is ironic

00:38:59.420 I know

00:39:00.120 ironic

00:39:01.660 when you were

00:39:04.260 starting reform

00:39:05.300 the grievances

00:39:07.160 were different

00:39:07.820 but the fact

00:39:09.260 that so many

00:39:10.640 in Western Canada

00:39:11.620 feel like their

00:39:12.440 voices are silenced

00:39:13.600 that they don't

00:39:14.600 have the political

00:39:15.260 muscle that

00:39:16.080 should match

00:39:16.980 their importance

00:39:18.060 to the country

00:39:18.680 economically

00:39:19.260 and otherwise

00:39:19.900 those remain

00:39:21.940 is it possible

00:39:24.740 to even deal

00:39:25.440 with something

00:39:25.780 you wrote

00:39:27.360 into Ottawa

00:39:28.020 you know

00:39:28.840 wanting a

00:39:30.520 triple E

00:39:31.180 Senate

00:39:31.600 Prime Minister

00:39:32.620 Harper

00:39:33.040 tried

00:39:33.660 valiantly

00:39:34.660 to change

00:39:35.920 the Senate

00:39:36.380 in a few

00:39:36.880 different ways

00:39:37.580 and was

00:39:38.900 stymied at

00:39:39.480 every turn

00:39:39.960 the Supreme

00:39:40.700 Court has

00:39:41.100 effectively said

00:39:41.940 you're not

00:39:42.820 going to change

00:39:43.380 this

00:39:43.660 don't even

00:39:44.240 bother

00:39:44.620 so how do

00:39:46.700 you address

00:39:47.180 those non-economic

00:39:48.680 terms

00:39:49.860 like the

00:39:50.620 political muscle

00:39:51.400 how many

00:39:53.280 senators do

00:39:53.880 you have

00:39:54.280 in the

00:39:55.920 West

00:39:56.200 fewer than

00:39:57.380 yeah that's

00:39:59.160 fewer than

00:39:59.660 all Atlantic

00:40:00.460 Canada has 0.52

00:40:01.020 one of the

00:40:01.660 problems will

00:40:02.120 come up

00:40:02.480 is to the

00:40:03.480 extent that

00:40:04.100 the proposed

00:40:05.060 reforms by

00:40:06.000 any of these

00:40:06.760 groups involve

00:40:07.720 constitutional

00:40:08.520 change

00:40:09.140 it brings up

00:40:10.920 the issue

00:40:11.280 that the

00:40:11.640 Canadian

00:40:11.960 constitution

00:40:12.500 is virtually

00:40:13.220 unamendable

00:40:14.200 because of

00:40:14.820 the formula

00:40:15.740 you can't

00:40:16.440 amend it

00:40:17.020 and so

00:40:18.320 your fallback

00:40:20.160 position is

00:40:20.700 to try to

00:40:21.160 achieve some

00:40:21.780 of these

00:40:22.100 things without

00:40:23.420 amending the

00:40:24.140 constitution

00:40:24.680 for example

00:40:25.600 if in the

00:40:26.360 federal parliament

00:40:27.080 there was

00:40:27.540 free voting

00:40:28.800 if this new

00:40:30.300 government

00:40:30.660 tell Carney

00:40:32.480 I could write

00:40:33.540 this out for him

00:40:34.180 and he could

00:40:34.440 say it in

00:40:34.780 20 seconds

00:40:35.480 if the new

00:40:36.400 government

00:40:36.700 got up and

00:40:37.400 said we

00:40:38.120 will not

00:40:38.620 resign

00:40:39.180 unless we

00:40:40.500 lose a

00:40:41.300 specific

00:40:41.900 non-confidence

00:40:42.840 motion

00:40:43.300 we will not

00:40:44.080 resign because

00:40:44.740 some bill

00:40:45.260 gets defeated

00:40:45.880 we won't

00:40:46.320 resign because

00:40:47.000 some section

00:40:47.840 or some

00:40:49.140 motion gets

00:40:49.940 defeated

00:40:50.220 we will only

00:40:50.880 resign if

00:40:51.600 there is an

00:40:52.160 explicit measure

00:40:53.660 of non-confidence

00:40:54.540 to defeat

00:40:55.400 us

00:40:55.700 with the

00:40:57.380 traditional money

00:40:58.080 bill being

00:40:58.820 part of that

00:40:59.260 no I wouldn't

00:41:00.100 even include

00:41:00.520 that

00:41:00.780 but then say

00:41:02.680 to the

00:41:03.040 members that

00:41:03.700 you've got

00:41:04.340 freer voting

00:41:05.500 if there's

00:41:06.760 some liberal

00:41:07.420 members from

00:41:08.020 western Canada

00:41:08.720 who disagrees

00:41:09.700 with what the

00:41:10.360 government is

00:41:10.840 doing they

00:41:11.240 ought to be

00:41:11.580 able to get

00:41:12.020 up and say

00:41:12.780 so and vote

00:41:13.780 against it

00:41:14.280 without toppling

00:41:15.260 the government

00:41:15.800 that's what

00:41:16.640 the amending

00:41:17.640 the confidence

00:41:18.340 convention and

00:41:19.560 providing freedom

00:41:20.340 of voting it

00:41:21.020 would provide

00:41:21.540 at least some

00:41:22.840 effective regional

00:41:24.540 representation in

00:41:25.760 the house of

00:41:26.440 commons if you

00:41:27.400 can't get it in

00:41:28.140 the senate

00:41:28.560 now this is a

00:41:29.900 it's it's not

00:41:30.660 the best way

00:41:31.360 to do it but

00:41:32.080 it's if you

00:41:32.860 can't amend the

00:41:33.600 constitution at

00:41:34.480 least it's one

00:41:34.940 way to do it

00:41:35.640 could you add

00:41:36.680 more senators

00:41:37.380 for the western

00:41:38.640 provinces without

00:41:39.660 amending the

00:41:40.260 constitution

00:41:40.900 well you could

00:41:44.440 add senators but

00:41:45.420 I think they have

00:41:46.320 to be democratically

00:41:47.540 accountable these

00:41:48.740 senators are not

00:41:49.600 accountable to

00:41:50.160 anybody except

00:41:51.820 the person that

00:41:52.520 appointed them

00:41:53.220 that's what's a

00:41:54.920 body like that

00:41:55.640 having anything to

00:41:56.760 do with the

00:41:57.720 making of federal

00:41:58.440 law if we were

00:42:00.160 if we were if

00:42:01.000 Canada was asked

00:42:01.800 to take a look

00:42:02.920 at the

00:42:03.200 constitutional

00:42:03.800 arrangement in

00:42:04.460 some third world

00:42:05.220 country and they

00:42:06.600 had a block in

00:42:08.000 their lawmaking

00:42:08.800 process where there

00:42:09.640 was completely

00:42:10.180 unelected and

00:42:11.120 unaccountable people

00:42:12.260 had something to

00:42:13.240 do with the

00:42:13.580 passage of the

00:42:14.160 laws we would

00:42:14.840 say that's

00:42:15.360 undemocratic but

00:42:16.940 we have it like

00:42:17.780 that well we have

00:42:19.020 it and we are

00:42:19.720 seemingly stuck with

00:42:20.780 it much to my

00:42:21.700 chagrin well

00:42:22.500 what one of the

00:42:23.560 other things that

00:42:24.980 I've heard of

00:42:26.280 though I don't

00:42:26.600 like the prospect

00:42:27.300 of it if Quebec

00:42:28.440 were to decide to

00:42:29.560 leave the

00:42:29.940 federation they

00:42:32.120 that would blow 0.60

00:42:32.980 the constitution

00:42:33.820 apart you would

00:42:35.060 have to have a

00:42:35.840 constitutional

00:42:36.420 convention to

00:42:37.060 completely rewrite

00:42:38.280 the the

00:42:39.460 constitution of

00:42:40.300 Canada and

00:42:41.720 you know the

00:42:42.120 west would argue

00:42:42.780 well give us the

00:42:43.620 three seats that

00:42:44.420 Quebec had on the

00:42:45.440 supreme court give

00:42:46.300 us the 24 seats

00:42:47.340 they got in the

00:42:47.980 senate give us a

00:42:48.820 big chunk of the

00:42:49.460 75 seats the

00:42:50.380 house of commons

00:42:51.060 and we'd probably

00:42:51.980 be quite happy

00:42:52.880 I don't like that

00:42:56.600 prospect either

00:42:57.580 though

00:42:58.040 yes yes yes

00:42:59.360 that's a way out

00:43:00.760 one there but

00:43:01.580 it's ironic that

00:43:02.940 the the only way

00:43:04.200 we could force a

00:43:05.180 major rethinking

00:43:07.420 of our constitution

00:43:08.540 is for somebody

00:43:09.260 to blow it 0.69

00:43:09.800 apart like that

00:43:10.660 what kind of a

00:43:12.080 system is that

00:43:13.440 you know

00:43:13.800 what are the

00:43:15.720 what are the

00:43:17.280 other issues

00:43:17.860 beyond the

00:43:18.500 economics beyond

00:43:19.300 the the senate

00:43:20.660 and democratic

00:43:21.300 issues that you

00:43:22.440 are hearing about

00:43:23.260 as you talk to

00:43:24.420 people about the

00:43:25.040 grievances from

00:43:25.700 western Canada

00:43:26.280 well one of them

00:43:26.880 is that as you

00:43:28.420 know the west

00:43:29.460 looks west to

00:43:31.880 the asia pacific

00:43:33.160 region as where

00:43:34.480 a lot of the

00:43:35.300 future is going to

00:43:36.200 happen and there

00:43:38.080 were westerners

00:43:38.740 that noticed the

00:43:39.460 first place that

00:43:40.460 mr carney went was

00:43:42.840 to france and

00:43:44.220 england back to

00:43:45.460 the old countries

00:43:47.260 he mentions ties

00:43:48.960 with the european

00:43:50.700 union to every

00:43:52.960 he mentions that

00:43:54.340 ten times to every

00:43:55.640 i haven't even heard

00:43:56.940 him talk about

00:43:57.740 australia japan and

00:43:59.780 how to handle

00:44:00.580 china so there's a 0.89

00:44:02.040 fundamental difference

00:44:02.980 with west tends to

00:44:04.000 and particularly

00:44:04.680 the younger people

00:44:05.620 some of our

00:44:06.540 younger people when

00:44:08.040 you know they get

00:44:08.880 out of university

00:44:09.480 and they want to

00:44:09.860 go traveling

00:44:10.380 internationally they

00:44:11.400 go west they go

00:44:12.560 west they do not

00:44:13.640 go necessarily to

00:44:15.180 europe so that

00:44:16.100 that's and this

00:44:17.040 affects our foreign 0.98

00:44:17.820 affairs what

00:44:18.440 emphasis is going to

00:44:19.280 be made on the

00:44:19.980 asia pacific and

00:44:21.580 the 21st century

00:44:23.180 asia pacific rather

00:44:24.760 than uh to making

00:44:26.340 time improving our

00:44:28.000 ties to the past

00:44:29.040 is it wise to still

00:44:31.380 tie our hitch our

00:44:32.960 wagon to to china

00:44:34.300 no no one's

00:44:36.200 suggesting that but

00:44:37.080 you can't ignore

00:44:37.880 them and having

00:44:39.060 discussions with the

00:44:39.940 australians as to

00:44:40.980 how do you maintain

00:44:42.160 an independence from

00:44:43.340 china and on the

00:44:45.280 security front but

00:44:46.620 you have to recognize

00:44:47.980 what a big economic

00:44:48.960 players are it would

00:44:49.720 be very it would be

00:44:51.500 very healthy for

00:44:52.460 candidate to do

00:44:53.240 that all right

00:44:54.780 mr manning thanks for

00:44:56.420 your time uh do

00:44:57.760 keep in touch we'll

00:44:58.800 watch the uh the

00:44:59.980 western assembly if

00:45:00.860 it comes together

00:45:01.540 we'll see how the

00:45:03.160 uh the people in

00:45:04.380 uh western canada

00:45:05.860 continue to react to

00:45:06.960 the the carny

00:45:07.640 government as you

00:45:08.660 said uh earlier

00:45:09.540 it's going to be

00:45:10.160 actions and not

00:45:11.060 words and hopefully

00:45:12.380 by the time he meets

00:45:13.460 the premiers in

00:45:14.860 saskatoon we're on

00:45:16.760 the way to seeing

00:45:17.520 what those actions if

00:45:18.800 any will be thanks

00:45:20.180 so much okay so

00:45:21.080 let's stay tuned

00:45:22.300 you're saying yes

00:45:23.320 full comment is a

00:45:26.720 post media podcast

00:45:27.700 my name is brian

00:45:28.440 lily your host this

00:45:29.580 episode was produced

00:45:30.560 by andre pru theme

00:45:31.700 music by bryce hall

00:45:32.900 kevin libban is the

00:45:34.420 executive producer

00:45:35.460 remember to hit

00:45:36.960 subscribe on apple

00:45:38.340 spotify wherever you're

00:45:39.440 listening to your

00:45:39.960 podcast leave us a

00:45:40.940 rating and give us a

00:45:41.940 review thanks for

00:45:42.880 listening until next

00:45:43.760 time i'm brian lily

00:45:44.840 here's that clip from

00:45:49.420 candidate did what i

00:45:50.960 promised you

00:45:51.580 so um although

00:45:57.040 although abortion was

00:46:00.360 sort of accessible it

00:46:01.900 really wasn't but then

00:46:03.120 1988 rolls around and

00:46:05.300 what's the law on

00:46:06.080 abortion then suddenly

00:46:08.140 there wasn't one

00:46:09.700 literally no restrictions

00:46:11.500 existed in 1988

00:46:13.140 abortion went from

00:46:14.720 heavily restricted to

00:46:16.040 completely unrestricted

00:46:17.600 almost overnight there

00:46:20.140 was no referendum on

00:46:21.120 this there wasn't even

00:46:22.200 an act of parliament

00:46:23.160 this whole thing is due

00:46:25.060 to a somewhat surprised

00:46:26.440 decision out of the

00:46:27.500 supreme court of

00:46:28.100 canada and it came

00:46:29.660 about in large part

00:46:30.680 because of one man a

00:46:32.260 canadian doctor who

00:46:33.320 had been relentless

00:46:34.140 about running illegal

00:46:35.340 abortion clinics since

00:46:36.380 the 1960s and was

00:46:37.980 determined to overturn

00:46:39.180 the laws prohibiting the

00:46:40.260 practice along the way

00:46:42.360 he endured multiple

00:46:43.520 arrests constant raids

00:46:44.940 a jail term a firebombing

00:46:46.560 of his clinic and

00:46:47.280 attacked by a fanatic

00:46:48.260 wielding garden shears

00:46:49.200 the approbation of

00:46:50.880 virtually his entire

00:46:51.900 profession and frequent

00:46:53.660 death threats

00:46:54.320 if you want to hear the

00:46:57.940 rest of the story make

00:46:59.300 sure you subscribe to

00:47:00.640 canada did what

00:47:01.700 everywhere you get your

00:47:03.300 podcasts

Full Comment - May 12, 2025

It’s not just Alberta flirting with western separatism now

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