Full Comment - Leslyn Lewis says her social conservatism means smaller government

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00:01:12.720 Hi, I'm Post Media columnist Anthony Fury.

00:01:20.260 Thanks for joining us for the latest episode of Full Comet.

00:01:23.220 Please consider subscribing to this show if you haven't already.

00:01:25.960 The Conservative Party of Canada leadership race is now well underway, and we hope to have

00:01:30.540 most of the candidates join us in the months ahead on this show.

00:01:33.780 A few weeks ago, we had Pierre Paulyev join us for a conversation, and this week I'm pleased

00:01:37.740 to welcome Leslyn Lewis.

00:01:39.260 She's the Conservative MP for Haldeman Norfolk and placed third in the previous Conservative

00:01:43.800 leadership race.

00:01:45.060 Now, she's running again.

00:01:47.100 Ms. Lewis, welcome to the show.

00:01:48.320 Great to have you on.

00:01:50.100 Thanks for having me, Anthony.

00:01:51.540 Yeah, thanks for joining us.

00:01:52.460 How are you doing?

00:01:53.840 I'm doing great.

00:01:54.840 How are you doing?

00:01:55.380 I am doing well.

00:01:57.000 Busy times, I'm sure, for you.

00:01:59.340 Let's jump right into it, and let me ask you, why are you running for the leadership this

00:02:03.320 time?

00:02:05.120 Well, it looks like the same issues that were present last time, Anthony, we haven't resolved

00:02:10.520 them in our country, and I'm very concerned about the direction that our country is going

00:02:14.960 in.

00:02:15.160 I think that we need some policies that are going to unite us and instill hope and unity

00:02:21.780 and confidence in our economy.

00:02:23.940 I'm concerned about our environment.

00:02:25.960 I'm concerned about our social safety nets and that the enormous amount of money that

00:02:32.920 we're spending as a government, that it's going to put us in a place where our social

00:02:38.800 safety nets in the future may be compromised.

00:02:40.900 I'm also concerned about our national unity.

00:02:43.920 And most of all, I'm hearing concerns that people are very, very, very concerned about

00:02:50.880 their freedoms and what that means to things such as freedom of speech, freedom of assembly,

00:02:58.040 freedom of religion.

00:02:59.080 These things are being undermined, and I think that we have to focus our country on strengthening

00:03:04.680 our democratic ideals.

00:03:07.660 All right.

00:03:07.860 Let's pick up on a few of those.

00:03:09.280 How are our freedoms being undermined right now, would you say?

00:03:11.940 Well, let's start for one small thing that I hear over and over from constituents, from

00:03:21.860 people across the country.

00:03:23.000 Right now, I believe we're the only country where an unvaccinated person is not able to

00:03:29.180 board a plane, cannot board a train, and cannot get on a boat that is federally regulated.

00:03:36.400 And so many people are concerned about that.

00:03:39.940 We also witnessed the utilization of the Emergencies Act, and that put many people in a position

00:03:49.620 of concern because the government was able to freeze bank accounts without due process.

00:03:56.220 And so I have numerous friends who are very successful, who have actually picked up and left

00:04:02.060 Canada because of this unsettling thing that's happened.

00:04:05.960 So you know people have said they're leaving Canada specifically because of the financial

00:04:10.980 implications of the Emergencies Act?

00:04:14.440 Oh, yes.

00:04:15.400 Oh, yes.

00:04:15.980 Because once a government demonstrates to the citizens that there's a vulnerability in your

00:04:24.100 property, things that you've worked for.

00:04:26.340 Remember, people see Canada as a beacon of hope and opportunity for people from all around

00:04:31.640 the world.

00:04:32.100 And when something as simple as due process is compromised and innocent people because

00:04:39.020 they gave to a cause which they believed in, which was not an illegal cause.

00:04:44.020 And as you can see, there's many newspaper articles that are coming out now which are stating that

00:04:50.480 they actually spread misinformation about the convoy.

00:04:53.720 So people are saying, yes, so media outlets can spread misinformation and governments can

00:05:00.820 act on that and confiscate or suspend people's civil liberties.

00:05:06.020 That is extremely disconcerting in a free and democratic society.

00:05:10.280 So, of course, there's going to be insecurities around that, Andrew.

00:05:13.360 And people who have the means to leave Canada, many of them are doing so.

00:05:18.320 Now, I know a number of experts said for those very reasons, OK, don't be hasty bringing

00:05:22.200 in the Emergencies Act for the first time ever.

00:05:24.200 You want to make sure we meet the threshold.

00:05:25.820 And many groups like the Canadian Civil Liberties Association said, no, we did not meet the threshold

00:05:30.420 to do that.

00:05:31.740 How do we then how do we deal with this moving forward?

00:05:34.260 I guess there's no putting the genie back in the bottle.

00:05:36.360 But as you said, you know, people who are who are very concerned that this has happened.

00:05:41.300 What are the next steps forward?

00:05:43.060 What would you do differently now?

00:05:44.460 Well, Anthony, we need a process of restoring confidence in critical institutions, one, namely

00:05:54.660 government.

00:05:55.620 The confidence has to be restored in government.

00:05:58.180 And the only way to do that is by listening to the citizenry and also by making sure that

00:06:06.940 governments understand what their role is.

00:06:09.380 Their role is that they are elected to serve the people.

00:06:13.340 That must be restored.

00:06:16.040 They must act in accordance in the best interest of the people.

00:06:21.200 That's the first thing.

00:06:22.320 Then we have to restore the faith in the media, because when the media is spreading misinformation

00:06:28.400 about average Canadians, and that leads to the suspension of civil liberties, then everything

00:06:36.400 that comes out of the media becomes distrusted.

00:06:40.020 And so we have to restore that confidence.

00:06:42.860 And the only way we can do that is by going back to the basics, the basics which uphold our

00:06:49.380 constitution, such as our freedom of expression, our freedom of association, our freedom of

00:06:56.000 assembly.

00:06:56.420 When those things are put to the level that they should be in our society and are upheld,

00:07:07.140 then confidence will be restored.

00:07:08.920 In what way would a politician, the prime minister or someone who's conservative leader,

00:07:13.900 play a role in restoring faith in the media?

00:07:15.980 Because I'm not going to disagree with you that there's certain things in some news outlets that

00:07:19.660 are just not accurate.

00:07:20.920 And that's causing some problems with the social fabric.

00:07:23.880 But just like I was nervous when Justin Trudeau and the liberals wanted to create new programs

00:07:28.000 to sort of get involved in the media, how would you as conservative leader, as conservative

00:07:32.460 prime minister, restore trust in the media?

00:07:35.300 I mean, I see that there should be just more work done internally from the media themselves.

00:07:39.300 What is the government role there?

00:07:40.520 Well, I believe that we need to stop government overreach.

00:07:47.920 So if we look at something like Bill C-11, we need to make sure that we are not enabling

00:07:54.800 institutions and organizations like the CRTC to overreach and to limit people's right to

00:08:04.040 freedomly express themselves.

00:08:06.020 We need to make sure that we are not taking away people's freedom to watch what they want

00:08:14.120 to watch once it's within legal parameters on the internet.

00:08:19.740 And we need to make sure that there's a confidence in our institutions.

00:08:25.080 I guess one of the challenges that we've seen is a lot of people who've been frustrated

00:08:29.100 the past six months, year, two years have seen their faith really erode in a whole variety

00:08:34.900 of institutions right now.

00:08:36.000 And we see this in various polls and these trust barometers that different organizations

00:08:40.420 come up with, that there is an erosion of just institutional trust in Canada right now.

00:08:46.460 How would you address that?

00:08:50.820 Well, I think that it has to start with the governments first, as I said, recognizing that

00:08:57.180 these institutions are there for a reason.

00:09:00.200 There has to be some arm's length between the government and those institutions.

00:09:06.260 The government cannot be seen as manipulating those institutions for the benefit of some sort

00:09:13.940 of partisan outcome.

00:09:15.680 So the checks and balances that our democracy was based on, we have to return to those.

00:09:22.780 How do we do that in a way that brings everyone on board?

00:09:26.080 You talked about division earlier and sort of this lack of unity that a lot of people say

00:09:33.740 is going on in Canada right now.

00:09:35.320 How do you address that?

00:09:38.220 Well, Anthony, I think that what we need to do is we need to face reality.

00:09:43.600 And the reality is that we're at a five-time year low on national unity.

00:09:49.160 This means that Western Canada, they feel completely disrespected by Ottawa.

00:09:54.960 We have issues in Quebec.

00:09:58.040 We have issues with reconciliation.

00:10:01.260 And so we have to start recognizing that all these various sectors of our beautiful country,

00:10:08.400 they have unique contributions that they can make.

00:10:12.280 And we need to start valuing those unique contributions.

00:10:16.420 And there are many ways to do that, Anthony.

00:10:18.660 You could do that by implementing laws that respect those particular regions.

00:10:23.980 For example, the West, how could the West feel valued when we have laws like Bill C-48 and Bill C-69,

00:10:32.940 which kills their industry, and yet we have more favorable laws for foreign industries,

00:10:39.380 foreign oil and gas industries than we do for our own country.

00:10:43.160 And we've seen that when we do that, once we pit regions against each other, Anthony,

00:10:48.860 we see that it's Canadians that suffer. 0.98

00:10:51.960 Because right now, you're suffering at the gas pumps.

00:10:56.020 When you go and you're paying exorbitant prices for gas,

00:11:01.600 it's because of policies, regional policies,

00:11:05.800 that affected and penalized certain regions of the country for political gain.

00:11:11.920 If we had built our pipelines, Anthony, right now, we would be getting our LNG to Tidewater,

00:11:19.680 and we would be supplying Europe, who accesses 40% of their LNG from Russia.

00:11:28.220 We would be offsetting that.

00:11:29.780 So right now, we are contributing to the fact that we have emboldened Russia, 0.85

00:11:36.080 we have financed Russia, and now Russia's turning around and invading places like Ukraine.

00:11:42.440 That can be directly connected to our LNG policy and our inability to make Canada a self-sustaining nation.

00:11:53.140 Lesley Lewis, I want to take a pause for a moment from the policy, move to the politics for a second.

00:11:58.020 Looking back at the 2020 Conservative Party leadership race and looking at the results of that,

00:12:03.220 I think one thing that maybe hasn't been discussed that much is how good of a showing you made in that leadership race

00:12:10.860 for someone who didn't have as much of a national profile to begin with as Aaron O'Toole did,

00:12:15.240 who got first place, of course, Peter McKay, who's second place.

00:12:19.880 I'm looking here at the second round results, and Aaron O'Toole, 35% of the points allocated,

00:12:25.100 Peter McKay, 34%, yourself at 30%, a very strong third place showing.

00:12:29.700 How do you plan to build upon that this time around?

00:12:34.800 Well, Anthony, I would even characterize it a little bit differently than you're characterizing it,

00:12:39.220 because in actuality, I won the popular vote on the second ballot.

00:12:45.020 I got more votes than Aaron and Peter.

00:12:47.980 Right, I see that 60,000 for you, 54,000 for Peter, and then 57,000 for Aaron.

00:12:53.600 It's interesting the way all these things are tabulated in this race. 0.96

00:12:58.180 Is this year's leadership going to be the same sort of point system and same tabulation?

00:13:05.720 Actually, no, it's not.

00:13:08.140 So those ridings with fewer than 100 members will only get the amount of votes that's in the riding.

00:13:18.340 So if they have 20, it will be 20 votes, whereas before, if they had two members, they would still get 100 points.

00:13:24.960 So it's changed.

00:13:25.400 And what does that mean for you for this time around?

00:13:29.480 Well, I think it's more favorable for someone like myself.

00:13:33.700 I think that if I had more time during the last leadership race, I would have been able to even bridge that gap under those rules.

00:13:41.220 But as you know, I'm an outsider, I'm coming in, and I'm not a traditional politician.

00:13:48.160 And so I approach things very differently.

00:13:50.400 And I think that's one of the things that why people gravitate towards me, because I'm very, very forthright in what I believe in my policies.

00:14:00.720 I don't have to think about them.

00:14:02.520 I don't have to worry about whether I'm going to misspeak on something.

00:14:06.240 This is what I believe.

00:14:07.140 It may be different than what you believe, Anthony, but I believe that you and I can sit down and have a respectful conversation about even policies that are extremely polarizing.

00:14:19.940 Because I, in speaking with people, because I love people, so I love communicating with people.

00:14:25.880 So in speaking with people, I find that even the person who is so different than I am has such divergent policies that I do.

00:14:35.900 If we sit down and we have an honest conversation, there's going to be some commonality.

00:14:40.840 And so, Anthony, my political approach is I like to build bridges.

00:14:45.060 And so I look for those commonalities.

00:14:46.980 And I say, even on something extremely polarizing, let's find out where we agree and let's start from there.

00:14:53.520 All right, let's talk about some extremely polarizing issues in just a moment.

00:14:56.480 We've got to take a quick break.

00:14:57.460 We'll be back with Les and Lewis in just a moment.

00:15:00.860 Before we get to those extremely polarizing issues, Ms. Lewis, you described yourself.

00:15:05.620 You said, I'm not a traditional politician.

00:15:08.560 What do you mean by that?

00:15:11.500 Well, Anthony, if you look at the other politicians that are running, they've been politicians for years.

00:15:17.880 Some of them have been politicians all of their adult life.

00:15:21.380 I am an entrepreneur.

00:15:24.500 I worked on Bay Street as a lawyer for a few years.

00:15:27.620 And then I started my own business.

00:15:29.900 So I come in with a completely different skill set.

00:15:33.220 I also taught for some time at university.

00:15:36.400 But I have a totally different skill set than the average politician.

00:15:39.740 So I find even within politics that I'm very, very unique because I go by this is what I believe.

00:15:48.920 This is what I believe will be in the best interest of Canadians.

00:15:53.020 And so it's not necessarily a partisan approach.

00:15:57.260 I can have something in common with someone across the aisle from me, someone of a different party.

00:16:04.020 I just look at the policies and the principles.

00:16:06.540 So I have a different way of viewing politics than the average politician who has been entrenched in the system.

00:16:14.160 How do you consider yourself as someone making history running for conservative leadership as the first black woman to do so in this nation?

00:16:20.900 Well, I think it's great that people see a broad spectrum in our party.

00:16:29.620 And one of the biggest complaints I hear about our party, Anthony, is they say, we don't think your party actually likes people who are not white male or blonde and blue eyed females.

00:16:42.880 That's what I hear.

00:16:43.840 And I'm there to say, well, you know, I actually fit in quite well in the party and I can share the reasons why I gravitated to that party, which is largely because of the divergent perspectives, the diversity of ideology and thought that's in our party.

00:17:04.200 And I believe that even the average immigrant, when I speak to them and I say, well, this is what I believe.

00:17:11.020 This is what our party believes.

00:17:12.380 They look at me and they say, well, that's what I believe, too.

00:17:15.560 And so it's a matter of letting people understand that our party is a big tent party and it embraces people from various perspectives, various philosophies, various racial and religious and ethnic and background, sexual orientation.

00:17:37.120 So all of those things are, I think, that we need to communicate better about our party.

00:17:46.260 But specifically for me, Anthony, as the first Black woman running to be the leader of the party, I think that what it symbolizes is when a young person, when a child, a teenager, a young boy or girl of any race, when they look at me and they say, well, she did it.

00:18:05.780 And so this country is really a country of opportunity.

00:18:10.780 And here it is, this party that we thought wasn't all inclusive, they have this individual running for the leader.

00:18:19.800 So it dispels some of the myths about, number one, our party, and it confirms that we live in one of the most meritocratic societies in all the world, where a Black woman can run to be the leader of the Conservative Party.

00:18:37.400 And people can see that we're a country that if you work hard and with hard work and perseverance, you can achieve your goals.

00:18:49.860 Now, there's been a bit of a back and forth going on between Patrick Brown and Pierre Polyev, also both candidates in this leadership race.

00:18:56.420 Patrick Brown attacking Polyev, saying that he has, quote, no credibility announcing any sort of policy which largely impacts minority communities.

00:19:04.900 Basically, going back to what you had said about there being this preconceived notion of a party of white guys or what have you, not welcoming persons from minority communities.

00:19:14.220 And Patrick Brown pointed to the support for barbaric cultural practices tip line in the 2015 election and banning the wearing of the dekab during citizenship swearing in ceremonies.

00:19:24.920 That had been something that Stephen Harper had introduced towards the end of his tenure.

00:19:28.720 What do you think of this idea that there are people who, if they support these policies, there's no credibility with minority communities?

00:19:38.620 Well, first of all, Pierre Polyev's wife is a minority. 0.85

00:19:43.160 I'm not sure if you know that.

00:19:44.780 So I don't think, and I know him personally, and I can tell you that he's anything but bigoted.

00:19:51.840 So I don't think that that's a very, very credible comment.

00:19:56.360 Both Pierre Polyev and Mr. Brown were in Prime Minister Harper's caucus at that time.

00:20:06.040 And they would have both supported, and it wasn't a kneecap ban from my understanding.

00:20:11.980 I'm in Parliament, and when I'm wearing a mask and I have to vote, I pull down the mask so that, and I'm the only black woman in the Conservative Party, so everybody knows who I am.

00:20:23.960 But I still pull down my mask, and I identify myself, and then I go back and I take my seat.

00:20:30.220 So I believe that that was the purpose, very similar to that, of Mr. Harper's kneecap ban.

00:20:37.500 Patrick Brown supported it.

00:20:38.680 He sent out a newsletter to his constituents in Barrie, and Pierre Polyev supported it.

00:20:45.620 So I don't see why they are at each other about this issue, that they were both in the party at the same time, and they both supported that policy.

00:20:59.140 And my understanding is that it wasn't a ban.

00:21:02.220 Now, this is an issue that definitely people like to dredge up more.

00:21:05.640 Liberals looking to attack Conservatives.

00:21:07.600 It's something you'll see in a lot of media being brought up, these issues of burqaband or how everyone wants to characterize it.

00:21:13.940 You mentioned very divisive issues and that you believe you can be a bridge on people sitting down and discussing on both sides of the aisle.

00:21:21.020 Another issue that frequently comes up, or at least that people like to attack the Conservative Party for,

00:21:26.580 is whether or not members of the party, the leader, too many caucus members, or what they would call pro-choice.

00:21:33.100 And then they like to attack them for being pro-choice.

00:21:35.880 This happened with Andrew Scheer's leadership.

00:21:38.080 A lot of accusations that he was not sufficiently, pardon me, he was not sufficiently pro-life.

00:21:44.520 I'm using the wrong terms there.

00:21:45.680 You've been described a lot as a social conservative.

00:21:48.960 Do you embrace that characterization?

00:21:51.520 And how do you feel that this issue should be discussed now, the pro-choice, pro-life conversation?

00:21:57.580 Well, Anthony, that's the beauty about my party.

00:22:00.840 I'm a fiscal conservative.

00:22:02.800 I'm a libertarian.

00:22:04.060 I'm a social conservative.

00:22:06.420 And there are even some aspects of me that I would support, even the quote-unquote red Tory label.

00:22:16.840 So I don't think you fit in one particular category.

00:22:21.440 There are policies that would fall into a particular category.

00:22:27.580 I have friends who are gay who are social conservatives because they have certain social conservative values.

00:22:35.220 How would you describe social conservative, then, in that context?

00:22:38.640 Because a lot of people kind of disagree on what they mean by that term.

00:22:41.320 Because some people take social conservative and mean, oh, you're against gay rights.

00:22:44.080 But you're clearly saying that these gay persons probably don't fall into that category.

00:22:48.880 What do we mean when we even talk about these terms, then?

00:22:51.540 Well, I think social conservatism for me is it's basically keeping the government out of my social and personal life.

00:23:00.200 That's the fundamentals of it.

00:23:02.640 Social conservatives, and that's why you could have a gay person who's a social conservative, 0.98

00:23:07.400 because they believe this, you stay out of my life, you stay out of my bedroom. 0.92

00:23:11.340 Those are conservative concepts, actually.

00:23:14.380 And so a typical social conservative would say, these are my children.

00:23:19.120 The government does not stand in locus parentis to me.

00:23:24.240 They do not have a right to tell me how to raise my children if I'm doing so in a loving and caring manner.

00:23:31.940 So that's one example of social conservatism.

00:23:35.180 Another example is, I believe in this God.

00:23:39.520 I want to be free to worship, to practice my faith,

00:23:44.900 and I do not believe that the government should interfere in that.

00:23:48.680 So those are other examples of social conservatism.

00:23:52.860 Social conservatism may believe in marriage,

00:23:56.060 and marriage may mean different things to different social conservatives.

00:24:01.200 A person, for example, who is a gay social conservative would say,

00:24:06.760 well, I want to get married rather than not get married.

00:24:10.160 And so they still have an aspect of social conservatism there,

00:24:13.840 because they choose to live in a marital relationship.

00:24:16.440 You mentioned religious rights.

00:24:18.560 Are religious rights being violated right now in Canada?

00:24:26.820 I would need some clarification if you're speaking about anything specifically, Anthony.

00:24:32.620 Well, I don't know.

00:24:34.480 I just mean you brought it up as an example of people saying,

00:24:37.340 look, religious rights matter to me.

00:24:38.800 And is there currently a battleground?

00:24:41.400 Is there a situation where people's religious rights are not being adequately respected in Canada,

00:24:45.540 such that we need a remedy from a politician such as yourself?

00:24:49.080 Well, for example, let me just give you one small example.

00:24:54.520 The conversion therapy ban, if we can talk about something more controversial.

00:24:59.840 I've always been against conversion therapy.

00:25:02.420 I think it's an atrocious act.

00:25:04.600 I do not believe that if any medical practitioner is administering nauseous substances to somebody

00:25:14.200 or electrocution or practicing those heinous acts, they should lose their license.

00:25:22.060 But some pastors believe that if a grown adult comes to them and says,

00:25:27.020 you know what, I would like to talk about this particular issue.

00:25:29.860 And they're not trying to convert the person or change them,

00:25:33.920 but they are having just a conversation with them.

00:25:37.660 That should be permitted.

00:25:39.660 So some pastors feel that they're very concerned,

00:25:42.820 even if a parent brings a child to them and says,

00:25:47.000 okay, well, we would like to speak about this issue.

00:25:50.020 Maybe my child is considering getting a sex change.

00:25:54.420 And so we want to make sure that they're emotionally and psychologically ready.

00:25:58.620 And you're a trusted person that we'd like to have a conversation with.

00:26:03.520 Pastors have communicated to me now that they are afraid to have those conversations.

00:26:08.800 So things such as those, I do believe that people of faith may believe that those are some issues

00:26:17.580 that they would like to make sure that they are not inadvertently targeted by certain legislation.

00:26:26.400 And I've heard people of faith say that, that they're concerned that they don't want certain laws to inadvertently target them.

00:26:36.000 Yeah.

00:26:36.680 One thing I always found interesting about Ontario's conversion therapy legislation is it effectively made it against the law 0.57

00:26:44.440 for people working in places like CAMH to do anything other than gender reaffirming.

00:26:50.400 When someone comes and says, I believe I might need a sex change, the medical professional can't really say,

00:26:57.160 okay, I've assessed things and, you know, no, you don't.

00:27:00.240 They more have to do something that puts them on a pathway to going ahead with that.

00:27:04.620 Even if the medical professional says, well, hold on a second, maybe there needs to be some counseling

00:27:08.080 or some more psychological services.

00:27:09.960 This is a big, big step you're taking in your life.

00:27:12.040 Let's make sure we're getting things right.

00:27:13.920 And I was surprised to learn that the legislation really pushes away from that.

00:27:19.440 And I fear that the way we talk about these sort of issues, well, I guess that we don't talk about them.

00:27:23.920 We don't talk about them in the sort of nuanced, big picture way they deserve.

00:27:28.180 Instead, they're very kind of blunt conversations.

00:27:29.860 And we just kind of attack someone if they even want to talk about them more thoroughly.

00:27:34.060 Absolutely. And that's a part of the problem, Anthony, because I judge members of the LGBTQ plus community 1.00

00:27:42.480 the same way I judge everyone else, and that they are human being first.

00:27:49.540 They are deserving of equal dignity and respect like anyone else.

00:27:56.000 So when a piece of legislation comes in front of me, Anthony, whether you are a member of the LGBTQ plus community

00:28:03.360 or another community or whether it's a BIPOC piece of legislation, I look at the legislative intent.

00:28:12.360 And I may be against something like conversion therapy, which I've always stated that I'm against.

00:28:19.240 But then I want to look at the legislation and look at whether or not there are any unintended consequences in it.

00:28:27.180 Look at whether or not certain terms can be better defined.

00:28:30.780 And as soon as you say that, you have people who make a living off of polarizing and demonizing

00:28:38.460 and adopting canceled culture narratives.

00:28:43.540 You have people like that attack you.

00:28:45.840 And so what you have then is you start to have an echo chamber of people of passing legislations

00:28:52.780 which are not fully tweaked out.

00:28:59.820 You don't get an opportunity to fully engage with the legislation because you're afraid of being labeled.

00:29:07.160 And I think that that is really counterproductive.

00:29:10.960 I want to talk about a couple really big issues right now that Canada is dealing with as a nation,

00:29:15.640 that the prime minister is, of course, dealing with.

00:29:17.620 Want to get your take on how you would deal with things differently.

00:29:19.960 Were you conservative leader? Were you prime minister?

00:29:23.200 COVID-19 seems like it's on the wane.

00:29:25.600 Seems like we're not going to be dealing with things like mask mandates and lockdowns again.

00:29:29.800 But you never know.

00:29:30.720 Dr. Theresa Tam has already threatened that in the fall.

00:29:33.300 We may need to bring some things back.

00:29:35.800 Leadership race wrapping up in September.

00:29:38.840 What do you think should happen in the fall if we see, yes, unfortunately, COVID-19 is surging again

00:29:44.320 and there will be some voices, I feel like inevitably because they always do, pushing for more restrictions to come in.

00:29:49.640 Heaven forbid, more lockdowns.

00:29:51.680 How would you contend with that as leader of a federal party?

00:29:55.160 Well, I think it's important that we learn from our mistakes.

00:29:58.960 And we've learned a lot in the past two years.

00:30:02.140 And I think it's important that we build on that, that we make sure that we have good data,

00:30:09.860 that also we find a way to free up capacity in our health care system.

00:30:16.200 So we need some additional transfer funds to the provinces in the health care area to make sure that we can have hospitals

00:30:29.040 that are capable of dealing with increased patients due to any type of pandemic.

00:30:36.320 I think it's also important that we do things to strengthen our economy and bring home our essential goods and supply chains

00:30:45.540 by making sure that we are able to manufacture products such as gloves and respirators and masks within our country.

00:30:57.380 The other big issue I want to talk about right now, the situation in Ukraine.

00:31:01.100 We had President Zelensky from Ukraine, of course, address the Canadian Parliament recently.

00:31:07.500 He's calling for more action from NATO nations, from Canada, from the United States,

00:31:12.720 certainly a lot of outpouring of support from our country in terms of sanctions and providing materials.

00:31:18.120 He is calling for a no-fly zone, though, that Jen Stoltenberg at NATO has said,

00:31:21.660 no, we can't do that.

00:31:22.480 That would almost go to war with Russia.

00:31:26.460 What do you think we should do moving forward on this file?

00:31:28.960 Because a lot of people see these heartbreaking images, they want more to be done,

00:31:32.400 but there are certain things that it seems that NATO nations say, no, that's got to be off the table.

00:31:38.560 Well, I think that one immediate thing that would have an immediate impact is a visa-free travel regime

00:31:47.060 for the Ukrainians to bring them immediately to safety without the need to go to a third country.

00:31:56.380 I think that that may require additional resources from Immigration Canada to support these measures,

00:32:06.560 but I think that such measures are worthwhile.

00:32:09.700 Now, we've certainly got a lot of people here who are sending support also going abroad to participate in military activities.

00:32:19.380 Hundreds of Canadians have apparently already headed over to Ukraine.

00:32:22.620 What do we do about that situation?

00:32:24.240 I mean, the federal government cabinet ministers, they've ranged from saying,

00:32:27.540 don't do that to kind of no comment, they certainly don't want to be encouraging people in that situation.

00:32:33.800 How do we respond to that scenario?

00:32:36.460 Well, Anthony, I think that fighting a war is something that requires skills,

00:32:41.500 and I would hope that the people who are going over are well-trained,

00:32:45.100 but I don't really, I would think that that is something that they would probably consult the Canadian military about

00:32:57.540 to make sure that they're not going over there and causing additional problems,

00:33:01.900 because there's organizations and protocols that would be on the ground that they may not be familiar with.

00:33:09.780 So I'm not too sure that that is a wise decision without consulting the proper decision makers before doing that.

00:33:23.080 At the beginning of our conversation, when I asked why you're running for leader,

00:33:25.460 there's two issues you brought up right away, pretty much the first two you brought up that I want to circle back on here.

00:33:30.860 You mentioned the environment, you mentioned the social safety net.

00:33:33.900 When it comes to the government and regulating the environment and various environmental issues,

00:33:39.260 lots of headlines, lots of strong opinions, lots of controversy.

00:33:43.220 When it comes to conservatives, there's generally pro-carbon tax, anti-carbon tax, a lot of split.

00:33:47.880 We're seeing that playing out right now during this leadership race.

00:33:50.900 Do you support a carbon tax right now?

00:33:54.400 No, Anthony, I do not support an individual carbon tax,

00:33:57.840 because I feel that such a policy unfairly targets the individuals who are least able to afford it.

00:34:10.340 So every time you pump gas for your car, you're paying to heat your homes, you're paying.

00:34:17.480 Farmers are paying to dry their crops.

00:34:20.120 And these are individuals who can least afford the carbon tax.

00:34:25.440 In addition, I don't believe the carbon tax is revenue neutral, as been stated.

00:34:32.100 And I do not see how it's being used to protect the environment.

00:34:37.700 I think other policies need to be implemented in order to make sure that we are, number one,

00:34:45.180 developing our natural resources in an environmentally sustainable manner,

00:34:49.460 and that we're getting our LNG to market, because our LNG worldwide can offset global emissions.

00:34:56.940 And we have to look at this on not just from a Canadian perspective,

00:35:01.920 but how our products could impact on lowering emissions in other countries also.

00:35:07.560 So there's lots of things that we could do to protect the environment,

00:35:12.160 which doesn't include breaking the backs of average Canadians.

00:35:17.120 When you talk about the social safety net, people having concerns for its future,

00:35:22.060 I got to say, as a parent of young children, and I look at how things are much more different now

00:35:27.320 than they were when I was growing up a couple decades ago,

00:35:29.480 and much more fragile, I want to say, in terms of being concerned about,

00:35:34.280 you know, will my kids have the benefits I had?

00:35:37.140 Will my kids have a better life than I had?

00:35:39.520 And there's a lot of nervousness around those questions.

00:35:42.220 What are your perspectives on dealing with the economy moving forward,

00:35:46.740 dealing with the social safety net, dealing with regular Canadians' abilities to have prosperity?

00:35:52.360 Well, Anthony, I think coming out of COVID, it's very, very important that we have a plan

00:35:58.780 to pay down our debt and reduce our deficit.

00:36:02.640 I think it's very important that we do not saddle future generations with this hefty debt that we have here.

00:36:14.240 And so we need a long-term plan to do that, to reduce the deficit.

00:36:18.560 And that will only be done if we up our production.

00:36:23.100 And so we need to create economy, we need to unleash the entrepreneurial spirit in our country back again.

00:36:33.220 When we recognize that over 80% of all Canadians are employed by small and medium-sized businesses,

00:36:41.160 and they have suffered the most under COVID, we need to incentivize these businesses to take a chance again,

00:36:48.260 so that Canadians are re-employed, and that we can get the economy kick-started again.

00:36:55.100 Also, we need to invest in our supply chain, our agricultural supply chain, and our manufacturing supply chain.

00:37:03.380 If we invest in these two things, the spillover effect, and the jobs created from these sectors,

00:37:10.900 will employ many Canadians, and it will kick-start the economy.

00:37:15.580 So those are some of the things that I think that we have to be concerned about.

00:37:19.800 And one of the biggest industries for that is our oil and gas industry.

00:37:26.060 Once we could reduce some of the legislations that has been unfavorable to that industry,

00:37:33.220 and start building our pipelines, and start generating work from that industry,

00:37:39.160 you'll see a major trickle-down effect all over the country.

00:37:43.840 Leslie Lewis, before we go, what would you hope that members of the Conservative Party who are voting in this leadership race,

00:37:52.600 what would you hope they take from you as your message?

00:37:55.460 When they're looking at their ballot going, which name do I take off, what does your campaign stand for?

00:38:02.060 Well, Anthony, I would say that my campaign stands for real authenticity.

00:38:07.140 It's you have somebody here in me who you will always know will speak the truth,

00:38:16.420 will put policies forward that advance all Canadians, and will not do so in a political partisan type of way.

00:38:27.340 I know that my policies, and Canadians in general, Anthony, they want to prosper.

00:38:35.540 Whether, no matter what your colour is, no matter what part of the country you live in,

00:38:40.680 you want a united country, you want a country where your children have opportunities,

00:38:46.580 where they can have the vision of owning a home, where they can have jobs,

00:38:51.200 they have the right to work, they have a healthy environment,

00:38:54.920 they have a health care system that's there for them in the future.

00:38:58.900 They know that when they retire, after years of working, there will be a pension there for them.

00:39:06.240 And the only way that we can do that is by having a united and prosperous country

00:39:12.140 where we're all working together, all regions working together for the prosperity of our nation.

00:39:18.980 Les and Lewis, thanks so much for joining us today.

00:39:22.520 It's been a great conversation. Good luck to you.

00:39:24.460 Thank you. Take care.

00:39:26.380 Full Comment is a post-media podcast.

00:39:28.580 I'm Anthony Fury.

00:39:29.700 This episode was produced by Andre Proulx, with theme music by Bryce Hall.

00:39:33.680 Kevin Libin is the executive producer.

00:39:36.140 You can subscribe to Full Comment on Apple Podcasts, Google, Spotify, and Amazon Music.

00:39:41.180 You can listen through the app or your Alexa-enabled devices.

00:39:44.000 You can help us by giving us a rating or a review, and by telling your friends about us.

00:39:47.820 Thanks for listening.

00:39:48.980 Thank you.

Full Comment - March 21, 2022

Leslyn Lewis says her social conservatism means smaller government

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