Full Comment - Let’s definitely not copy what they’re doing in Europe

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00:00:50.480 Hi, I'm Anthony Fury.

00:00:52.020 Thanks for joining us for the latest episode of Full Comet.

00:00:54.600 Don't forget to subscribe to be notified when new episodes drop.

00:00:58.420 Let's be more like Europe. 0.91

00:01:00.000 They're doing things so much better than in Canada and the United States.

00:01:03.340 They have got it all figured out.

00:01:05.840 Have you ever heard that refrain before?

00:01:07.140 Yeah, I'm sure you have.

00:01:07.960 Many times.

00:01:09.320 And yet our guest today says,

00:01:11.300 No way.

00:01:12.620 Time out.

00:01:13.540 Hard pass on that one.

00:01:14.740 David Harsanyi is a senior writer at National Review, a contributor to the New York Post,

00:01:19.660 and an author of multiple books, including his latest get-a-load of this title,

00:01:24.500 Eurotrash, Why America Must Reject the Failed Ideas of a Dying Continent. 0.99

00:01:30.860 David Harsanyi joins us now.

00:01:33.020 Hey, David.

00:01:33.440 Thanks for stopping by.

00:01:35.300 Thanks for having me.

00:01:36.140 Yeah, great to chat with you.

00:01:36.920 How are things?

00:01:38.080 Things are going pretty well.

00:01:39.120 Yourself?

00:01:39.780 Things are doing all right here, and I'm watching what's going on in the U.S. with some great

00:01:43.760 interest.

00:01:44.420 I'd like to get your thoughts on a couple things before we talk about your new book that's out,

00:01:49.740 particularly, I guess, what's going on with these, I can't really call them midterms,

00:01:54.240 but you had some elections in Virginia where it flipped Democrat to Republican, and then

00:01:58.640 some stuff going on in New Jersey where, I guess, the New Jersey Democrat governor did

00:02:03.240 get re-elected, but a razor-slim margin, not what people thought, and then a couple state

00:02:07.820 Senate seats flipped.

00:02:09.020 So I guess I'm hearing from some Republicans, oh, this is the beginning of some great surge,

00:02:12.660 some wave, but I don't know if there should be more cautiousness required on that.

00:02:16.720 What's your read of the state of the nation right now?

00:02:20.720 Well, I would say that typically, you know, first-term presidents see some blowback.

00:02:26.640 In the first midterm, obviously, this wasn't a midterm, but in essence, we can treat it

00:02:30.860 the same.

00:02:32.700 But I do think something else is going on.

00:02:35.180 Obviously, you have some anxieties about the economy because of inflation and other reasons,

00:02:42.040 but in Virginia specifically, you have basically the manifestation, I guess, of the fight over

00:02:48.040 schools in a way, over masking, over how race issues are taught in schools.

00:02:54.940 Virginia was a red state for a long time, but it turned, I would say it's turned blue,

00:02:59.340 basically, a few elections ago.

00:03:00.980 And to see it flip, I think, should be concerning for Democrats.

00:03:05.740 Help me out here with the school stuff.

00:03:07.540 Critical race theory.

00:03:08.660 I understand that was a big issue.

00:03:11.140 How would you define that concept?

00:03:13.560 What is critical race theory?

00:03:14.800 How is it being played out?

00:03:15.800 And what were the concerns that parents had?

00:03:19.700 Well, I should say there's been a, there's an intellectual, I call it an argument or curriculum

00:03:25.760 around critical race theory.

00:03:27.980 And it does exist in Virginia schools, but it wasn't taught, there wasn't a widespread teaching

00:03:32.860 of it, though there certainly was some, you know, some districts that wanted to do that.

00:03:38.920 I think it's become a shorthand for the sorts of, what would you call it, identitarian kind

00:03:44.760 of lessons that people are, that kids are taught in schools about race, you know, about,

00:03:51.640 how can I say, you know, that how white people are all collectively guilty for these things

00:03:56.700 or sort of long-term, long-term racial problems in the country.

00:04:03.060 Whatever it is, I mean, I think there's a lot of anxiety, again, by parents, but how it's

00:04:06.800 taught and it's sort of kind of tied into the mask wearing and things weirdly like, you

00:04:11.920 know, and being away from school and I think school choice issues.

00:04:14.960 So I think that that, that is what spurred a lot of anger generally about schools.

00:04:19.660 But I just quickly want to say on top of that, when these issues come up, rather than dealing

00:04:23.320 with them in, in, in, by debunking what was being said, you had Terry McAuliffe and others

00:04:28.580 saying things like, you know, parents shouldn't really have a say in curriculums, things like

00:04:32.020 that, which should seem, I think to many voters to be just elitist and, and disconnected from

00:04:37.700 reality.

00:04:38.720 I would say up here in Canada, there's a lot more parental disconnect from having a say

00:04:43.580 in the curriculum, what's going on in the schools in the U S is it, is it just Republicans who

00:04:49.280 are pushing to more be involved in the nitty gritty of the education system or, or is it

00:04:53.680 across the board as a broader sort of American parental culture thing?

00:04:56.660 I think it's an American parental culture thing.

00:05:00.620 Again, I'm not even sure how Canadian school systems run, but here, you know, there are

00:05:03.980 local systems.

00:05:05.060 There's no national curriculum really.

00:05:08.040 Yeah.

00:05:08.060 Same here.

00:05:09.080 Yeah.

00:05:09.620 So we have local communities running their schools and, uh, you know, so, so parents have

00:05:15.580 perhaps more involvement there.

00:05:17.700 They have more access to the people who are bored or who are running schools.

00:05:21.240 So it's, I think it's always been that way.

00:05:22.900 I mean, and the most American thing to do is go down and yell at the school board members,

00:05:26.040 but of course the thing is, uh, yeah, I've seen those viral videos.

00:05:29.760 They're a hoot.

00:05:31.740 Exactly.

00:05:32.460 But you know, the thing is not every parent can get what they want, which is why, you know,

00:05:36.200 this big school choice movement.

00:05:38.060 And I think that that has actually, um, benefited, I guess, from, from what happened last year

00:05:44.360 and this year with school closures and so on.

00:05:46.620 One of the other things I find really interesting, you know, here in Canada, like, like I guess

00:05:50.220 everywhere, uh, pro lockdown, anti-lockdown has been rather politicized and along some partisan

00:05:55.160 lines.

00:05:55.660 But at the same time, there's been more dynamic things happening in the U S I remember,

00:05:58.920 I guess a year ago, uh, New York schools were closed throughout, uh, the various boroughs.

00:06:04.980 And then in, I want to say the Bronx, a lot of parents, mostly moms, working class moms,

00:06:11.760 uh, who were not all white, not all Republican.

00:06:15.700 They took to the streets and they demanded Bill de Blasio reopen the schools.

00:06:19.600 And he did.

00:06:21.260 And I was like, Whoa.

00:06:22.580 And we had problems here in Ontario.

00:06:24.000 And I was always pushing, you know, we got to reopen the schools and we didn't and so

00:06:26.780 forth.

00:06:27.120 But it seems like there was a lot of activism going on around COVID stuff all throughout

00:06:31.620 the U S and even among people who are maybe traditionally democratic voters.

00:06:36.440 Absolutely.

00:06:37.240 The big swing in Virginia, for instance, happened in counties that had turned Democrat, um, in

00:06:44.360 Northern Virginia, where you have a lot of people moving out from the DC area and coming

00:06:48.180 over from Maryland.

00:06:49.200 So these are suburban families or moms or voters who, who were Democrats basically last

00:06:56.080 election.

00:06:56.500 Maybe they were turned off by Donald Trump, whatever it was, I think that the school issue

00:06:59.860 should change them back.

00:07:00.900 They're not as ideological as a lot of baby deep urban vote, you know, voters or white

00:07:05.980 voters, probably as far as minority voters, there's always been some kind of, uh, I wouldn't

00:07:11.960 say it's predominant position, but there's always been much more, uh, openness and sympathetic

00:07:16.700 year for, uh, having money, follow kids and giving them more choices because of the failing

00:07:21.380 schools.

00:07:21.860 So in inner cities quite often, so it is far more complicated than just Republican and

00:07:27.200 Democrat on that issue.

00:07:28.600 Yeah.

00:07:28.700 Yeah.

00:07:28.980 Fascinating stuff.

00:07:29.880 Absolutely.

00:07:30.480 First of all, I just got to ask you the Donald Trump question.

00:07:33.460 I know Joe Biden not doing so great right now.

00:07:35.920 It wasn't much of a honeymoon period or pretty much no honeymoon period for Biden polling numbers,

00:07:40.380 not looking great.

00:07:41.100 We see the images of what's happening at the border, China threatening conflicts over Taiwan.

00:07:46.560 Is Donald Trump going to make a comeback?

00:07:50.960 It's hard to say because he doesn't act in ways that I guess I would consider rational.

00:07:55.520 So I don't know what he's going to do.

00:07:57.180 Um, right now I'm sure he's, uh, he's looking at poll numbers and probably feeling decent

00:08:02.000 about his chances.

00:08:03.000 And I don't know what would happen, obviously.

00:08:05.720 Um, but it's, it's, it's a complicated situation.

00:08:08.200 I think he takes credit.

00:08:09.700 I I've noticed some pushback from the, from people who actually like him in the sense that

00:08:13.840 he, he seems to take credit for any conservative or Republican victory where he has very little

00:08:18.920 to do with it, for instance, in Virginia.

00:08:20.680 So I don't know.

00:08:22.000 I think his star is fading a bit with, even with his hardcore fans, but, uh, it's yet to

00:08:26.080 be seen what he does.

00:08:27.080 He promises to make an announcement soon.

00:08:28.840 I think it was, so we'll see.

00:08:30.980 Uh, lots of people interest in what Florida governor Ron DeSantos has been doing or where he

00:08:34.840 hopes to go with his political career.

00:08:36.400 What are some other figures you think, uh, would either say, yes, I want to run.

00:08:40.640 Even if Trump says he is running, or at least those who, if Trump says, no, I'm standing

00:08:44.000 down, uh, they would search to the four who would be the other big names.

00:08:48.820 Well, DeSantis brings together, uh, both the Trump wing, I think in the more, you know,

00:08:54.800 old school movement, conservative wing in a way that probably no other candidate does.

00:08:59.420 I know Chris Christie looks like maybe he would run.

00:09:01.580 I don't really see that, uh, uh, Nikki Haley, former governor of, uh, South Carolina, who's 0.71

00:09:08.800 more of a, uh, you know, a, uh, traditional Republican in the George W. Bush mold, I guess,

00:09:15.880 um, would probably run, uh, can't really think who else is out there.

00:09:21.420 Well, it's not kind of telling though.

00:09:23.340 It's not really, there's no like wow factor.

00:09:25.720 Well, I guess besides DeSantos, people found what he did, uh, with the COVID rules either.

00:09:29.660 Well, a lot of people were abhorred by it, depending on the views.

00:09:32.160 And other people found this is the one person in like the world, or at least in the Western

00:09:36.600 world or North America, standing up for freedom and sort of seen policy so aggressively.

00:09:41.120 So if, I guess if anybody has this sort of conviction, politician rallying crime, maybe

00:09:45.340 it's him.

00:09:46.620 Well, there'll probably be a ton of candidates if Trump doesn't run in the sense that, uh,

00:09:49.920 you know, you'll have the anti-Trump candidates, maybe, you know, and then you'll have the

00:09:54.160 Trump, the more Trumpy candidate, the MAGA candidate, and then DeSantis, who is kind of

00:09:59.520 has a Trump quality to him, but he is, he's actually quite sharp in debates and things of

00:10:05.160 that nature in the set, in a way that Donald Trump wasn't really.

00:10:08.480 So, um, I, I think if I had to pick anyone as the leading candidate for Republicans, it'd

00:10:13.480 be DeSantis for sure.

00:10:15.040 He's also, he's also governor of a big state and, uh, that's quite important in, in any,

00:10:19.600 any election.

00:10:20.580 So, right, right.

00:10:21.900 You know, when you were talking about the COVID stuff, parents doing activism, I was like,

00:10:25.220 oh man, we got to copy some of the ideas they're doing in the U S up here in Canada.

00:10:29.820 Uh, but the, the sort of point of your new book, the thrust of your new book, Euro trash, 1.00

00:10:34.160 is that there's a lot of people saying, well, the place you got to be taking your cues 0.97

00:10:38.000 from is from Europe and from European countries, Euro trash, why America must reject the failed 1.00

00:10:44.240 ideas of a dying continent. 0.86

00:10:46.660 I see that you did not choose to, uh, uh, approach that headline or subtitle by, uh, by, by going 0.98

00:10:51.860 in halves there, strong stuff, Euro trash. 0.96

00:10:55.760 What's you're really saying, uh, like, watch out. 0.97

00:11:00.500 These guys do not actually have their act together.

00:11:04.980 Well, um, yeah, I mean, that's what I'm saying.

00:11:07.420 And just broadly speaking, I noticed, um, over the past, going back in history, obviously there's

00:11:13.020 always been elites in this country and the United States have always looked towards Europe for,

00:11:17.380 for guidance.

00:11:18.220 You know, they think Europeans are more sophisticated. 0.95

00:11:20.500 Typically that was in the cultural realm.

00:11:22.480 You saw a lot of that, but I noticed over the, over the past, maybe 10 years, you have.

00:11:26.260 Not, not just, um, pundits and academics, but politicians saying, Hey, Europe's doing this

00:11:32.440 or that better.

00:11:33.040 And that used to not be the case.

00:11:34.900 You'd never have an American, you know, politician talking about Europe in that way.

00:11:39.360 Um, so, but they were saying a lot of things I thought needed debunking.

00:11:42.380 So there's two, my book is about two, on two different planes, I guess.

00:11:45.780 One is, you know, policy ideas and arguments that should be debunked, but also cultural aspects

00:11:50.700 of American society that were just different than Europeans in many ways. 0.80

00:11:53.880 It just wouldn't work here.

00:11:54.820 Yeah, well, well, let's talk, let's talk about the cultural stuff first, because I know we're

00:11:59.540 supposed to, or at least this is how in Canada we're taught to think about it.

00:12:04.300 We always have the kind of, we're supposed to, I don't want to say look down on the U S but

00:12:10.960 because we're the smaller power and we always rely on you guys for military stuff, we always

00:12:15.360 have to find ways we're kind of insecure about it.

00:12:17.500 So we have to make these sort of snippy comments and so on.

00:12:19.700 And, and, and part of that is talking about Europe as being much more, much more refined

00:12:25.680 sensibility, much more cultured, much more cosmopolitan.

00:12:29.260 And that's supposed to be one of the guiding lights as to why we should look to Europe more,

00:12:33.120 at least in that regard.

00:12:34.120 How do you respond to sort of that narrative?

00:12:36.520 Well, I would say that if you go, you know, a few miles outside of Paris, Berlin or other

00:12:42.900 countries, and you see these sprawling, you know, suburbs of, you know, that are filled

00:12:48.340 with poverty and lack of assimilation and generational unemployment and things like that.

00:12:55.740 I don't find that at all refined or sophisticated.

00:12:59.400 But I would say this on a cultural level, I understand why people look at Americans, think

00:13:04.580 of them as slack jawed yokels with guns and all of that.

00:13:08.060 But you guys say it in a bad way, which is what I don't understand.

00:13:11.740 I mean, I think that Americans are far more, they're open to risk.

00:13:17.640 They're open to taking chances.

00:13:18.980 They have a certain kind of cultural sensibility about where in they weigh safety and, you

00:13:25.120 know, and meritocracy and things like that.

00:13:27.480 And they just look at the world in a very different way than Europeans do for, I'm sure 1.00

00:13:30.900 Canada, no expert on Canada, obviously, but obviously you have Western Canadians or different

00:13:35.780 than, you know, people from Quebec, et cetera.

00:13:38.220 So these are all generalities.

00:13:41.100 But in general, I think Americans are far more open to taking risks, to living their lives

00:13:45.900 in ways that Europeans would not be because of, you know, because of long held cultural

00:13:49.760 and, you know, ethnic traditions, et cetera.

00:13:53.400 But I think that that drives the differences in policy as well.

00:13:57.500 Well, yeah, when it comes to innovation, is it not fair to say, and I don't have any sort

00:14:01.520 of charts or numbers in front of me that we're getting far more innovation in terms of, you

00:14:06.940 know, medical technology, you know, cutting technology in this sector or that sector from

00:14:13.460 American institutes more so than we are from European institutes?

00:14:17.180 Oh, yes.

00:14:18.020 I mean, the top 30 tech companies in the world right now, only one is from in Europe, which

00:14:23.320 is Spotify.

00:14:24.020 The rest are almost all American and Chinese companies and Japanese companies.

00:14:28.060 There is, when it comes to technological innovation, the United States leads, I think in 2020, every

00:14:32.960 single Nobel Prize winner was either an American or a team with an American on it.

00:14:37.760 A lot of the tech companies I just mentioned have first and second generation immigrants come

00:14:42.500 here, who came here and came up with these ideas that made them tons of money, right?

00:14:48.300 And, but even on lower levels, like doctors, there's a movement from East to West.

00:14:52.980 So you have, you know, Hungarians, Polish, you know, innovators, or they move to England,

00:14:57.740 Germany, and English and Germans and French move to the United States to do things and also

00:15:03.560 from Asia.

00:15:05.120 And yeah, I mean, I have many statistics in the book to show that as when it comes to

00:15:08.860 innovations, medical innovations, pharmaceutical innovations, the United, without, you know, 0.99

00:15:13.340 the United States leads in almost all of those areas.

00:15:15.860 And you know, it's funny when, when people talk about working in Europe, one of the things,

00:15:20.500 all the things they talk about, I guess, are things that are not so productivity enhancing.

00:15:25.660 You know, I, it's a routine thing to hear someone go, you know what, we should do what

00:15:29.020 they do in Europe and we should have the siesta.

00:15:30.660 So, you know, you have lunch and then you go to bed for three hours or whatnot.

00:15:34.180 And I'm like, that's kind of like the time when like deals are made, is it not?

00:15:38.320 That's kind of like when stuff is going to happen there and so forth.

00:15:42.220 So I totally get that they're, they're more relaxed in many ways.

00:15:45.780 And the vacation weeks, I think in the workplace that they accrue are perhaps more so than here.

00:15:51.220 And I think they like, don't take their cell phones with them, or at least they de-link

00:15:54.760 them from work.

00:15:55.440 So they're not doing the work emails all the time when, when they're out on vacation, which

00:15:58.940 sometimes, you know, I wish I could do, but you know, there's like a good side and

00:16:03.680 then a bad side to that kind of approach.

00:16:05.360 Right.

00:16:05.900 Well, let me give you a statistic.

00:16:07.180 I don't have the exact numbers.

00:16:08.440 They're basically right.

00:16:09.640 Is that when you ask a European in polls, would they prefer to have a job for life or

00:16:15.560 would they rather be their own boss and take some risk?

00:16:18.140 Like you ask Americans, this over 80% want to be their own boss. 0.77

00:16:22.560 And in Europe, it's like more like 20 something percent.

00:16:25.760 You have, there's always a story in the Atlantic here or some Euro file magazine where they're

00:16:33.120 talking about, can you believe how many, look at all these hours Americans work and

00:16:36.360 how terrible it is.

00:16:37.600 But actually Americans get meaning from work and they like to work and most like their

00:16:42.240 jobs and like what they're doing.

00:16:44.380 The idea that Americans don't like to work or work makes them unhappy is simply untrue.

00:16:50.260 It's very hard to quantify happiness.

00:16:51.860 Of course, what are you going to ask someone if you're happy?

00:16:54.560 You know, I, you know, Scandinavian person will almost always say yes.

00:16:58.240 While other, an Irish person will always say no, but you know it's clear that these are 0.99

00:17:04.100 choices that we get to make.

00:17:05.460 You want to take siesta, you can, but you're just not going to be as successful.

00:17:08.200 And then you can do that if you like here in France, for instance, that these, there

00:17:12.400 were regulations telling, you know, bosses, they can't call you on a weekend, et cetera.

00:17:16.960 So that's, I think the difference.

00:17:19.880 Yeah.

00:17:20.360 And I know they also have a lot of, I don't know what you call them, like sclerotic rules

00:17:25.080 around hiring and firing a lot of challenges where if you hire an employee, I mean, yeah,

00:17:30.600 we all have our HR and employment laws, you know, all across the Western world, but some

00:17:34.600 of the ones in places like France are just really, really restrictive for the employer.

00:17:40.520 Oh yeah.

00:17:41.440 And it's difficult to, yeah.

00:17:43.200 So it's obviously, it's difficult to fire people.

00:17:45.000 We see that here sometimes in union shops where, you know, it's hard to fire someone who

00:17:49.560 just put a lot of time in.

00:17:50.740 And the, listen, I understand the, you know, why people do that and how we want to protect

00:17:54.580 workers and things like that.

00:17:56.060 But it also inhibits movement in, in, in, in Americans move around from job to job far

00:18:02.280 more than Europeans do. 0.99

00:18:04.060 And, you know, and in the end, I mean, I, you know, if you care, if wealth matters and

00:18:08.960 we start, you know, we start thinking about per capita wealth, the United States is way

00:18:14.380 above Europe.

00:18:15.160 I have the stat kind of blew my mind, but in Britain, Britain wasn't a state in the United

00:18:19.440 States, their per capita income on average would be less than the second poorest in the state

00:18:24.400 in the, in the union.

00:18:25.360 It would be.

00:18:25.760 Wow.

00:18:26.260 I've never heard that before.

00:18:27.640 That's interesting.

00:18:28.360 Most European countries on the bottom third, only ones that perform well above are like

00:18:33.140 Luxembourg, not above, above other European countries are city states like Luxembourg

00:18:37.260 and Monica, Luxembourg and Monica.

00:18:39.400 So on that note, would you say that Brexit was the UK, like, are they further isolating

00:18:45.040 themselves and going down this road in a negative way?

00:18:47.720 Or were they like putting up the firewall and they're saying, you know what, we're, we're

00:18:50.420 done with all of this stuff, the, the failed ideas, uh, we're doing it the American way

00:18:54.740 more.

00:18:55.100 Like what, what's this going to result in for them?

00:18:57.440 I think the British have always were a tough fit for, for, uh, the European union.

00:19:02.680 When, when Churchill actually spoke about a European state modeling, you know, a super 0.87

00:19:07.040 European state.

00:19:07.780 And even then he didn't mention that the British would be part of it.

00:19:10.240 They never took on the currency.

00:19:11.940 The French initially didn't even want them to participate.

00:19:14.520 They're far, they've always been far more, uh, capitalistic, I guess, or free market

00:19:19.220 oriented and less, they don't get me wrong.

00:19:21.100 We have tons of bureaucracy and problems there, but they've always been a tough fit.

00:19:25.160 Um, and I think that a lot of, uh, people in Britain just got sick of the, the, the regulatory

00:19:31.640 regime of the European union in their everyday lives.

00:19:34.360 When it comes to light bulbs or the foods, they, things like that.

00:19:37.840 So I think it was just kind of a, a bunch of microaggressions that, you know, made them

00:19:42.440 mad, but, um, in, in general, I just never, I don't think that was much of a fit and they

00:19:46.900 didn't really need it, will they be more isolated?

00:19:49.660 I doubt it because they'll just probably make their own economic agreements with the

00:19:53.700 European union and other countries.

00:19:55.100 So I just don't think much will change for them.

00:19:58.120 We have to take a short break, but we'll be back in just a moment after this message.

00:20:05.340 David, I want to return to the subtitle, uh, why America must reject the failed ideas

00:20:08.780 of a dying continent.

00:20:10.140 We haven't spoken yet about what is it about Europe that is dying?

00:20:14.540 Um, well, it's literally dying in the sense that it's very old and people don't have

00:20:19.060 children.

00:20:19.420 So Germany, I believe now is the second oldest, uh, industrialized nation after Japan.

00:20:27.440 Um, but you know, Catholic countries especially are having very few children in Italy.

00:20:32.660 I would say traditionally Catholic countries like Italy, um, Spain, et cetera.

00:20:38.620 So, you, you know, you have a continent that's actually dying.

00:20:41.800 So to make up for that, they're allowed, they allowed in huge number of immigrants in a very

00:20:46.200 short span and, uh, what they don't do well in Europe, despite what people here may think

00:20:51.640 is assimilate newcomers or they're not tolerant in the way that Americans are. 0.91

00:20:56.740 Now, I, I, that's not to say we're perfect or that everyone here is welcoming of all immigrants,

00:21:02.180 but it is clear throughout history that we are much better at assimilating newcomers than

00:21:06.720 others.

00:21:07.040 I live in Washington DC area and I have neighbors from all over the world living here.

00:21:12.060 Some of them would probably be killing each other in other situations and they just send

00:21:16.120 their kids to the same schools.

00:21:17.380 I don't think we here as Americans, uh, understand what, what a miracle that is in some ways.

00:21:23.600 It just rarely happens.

00:21:24.700 I mean, obviously it happens in Canada and Australia, you know, but in, in, in, in Europe, countries

00:21:31.060 have a difficult time, even, uh, assimilating a single ethnic minority into their country.

00:21:36.680 And it's because of structural things, you know, long-term histories, things like that.

00:21:40.080 But it's also because of the system doesn't, um, there are no expectations for these people,

00:21:44.920 but I think to embrace the liberalism of those nations and become really active citizens.

00:21:49.500 Yeah, they seem to have a lot more problems with extremism in Europe than, than thankfully

00:21:54.260 we have in Canada and I guess in the United States.

00:21:56.760 And one wonders to what degree would that be addressed if they were able, uh, to have

00:22:02.020 a society that integrates more.

00:22:03.580 Right.

00:22:04.580 Right.

00:22:05.580 I mean, Muslim Americans are incredibly successful.

00:22:07.580 They have, uh, per capita, per, per family basis, make over a hundred thousand dollars

00:22:13.000 a year, which is very, one of the highest and, and are generally secular and assimilated.

00:22:17.860 It's not to say there is never any kind of extremism, but it's rare.

00:22:22.340 Whereas in say France or even in parts of, uh, England and London, you know, you have entire

00:22:27.200 neighborhoods that are compartmentalized and they have, you know, they have not embraced

00:22:32.940 the liberalism of that nation because, because I think partly because of the economic reasons

00:22:37.500 where they're not, you know, there's, like I said, generational unemployment and all these

00:22:41.700 sorts of things.

00:22:42.380 But also I think they're looking, you know, when people look for meaning in their lives

00:22:45.540 and the one, you know, they, they find it in faith and, um, without any kind of, can

00:22:51.720 I say competing idealism that you might find in your nation state or whatever they, you

00:22:57.480 know, they rely on the old and liberal ideas that they sometimes have.

00:23:00.500 And it just doesn't work.

00:23:01.320 Now, I know there are some people out there, uh, various immigration, refugee activists

00:23:05.840 who would counter and say, well, that's just the nature of geography.

00:23:08.560 And of course there's those, those upward pressures that, uh, Southern European countries

00:23:12.720 feel at their border.

00:23:13.600 They've had border crises and they say, well, Canada and the United States, you're doing

00:23:16.960 well with your immigration because you're selecting people by economic criteria.

00:23:20.760 Uh, you're bringing in people who you already know are going to be pretty successful.

00:23:24.280 Uh, you need to go and you need to do your fair share and bring in much more refugees 1.00

00:23:28.160 and so forth.

00:23:28.940 You need, you need to help out and take some of those people who are in the queue, uh, to

00:23:32.440 enter Europe, uh, through the border.

00:23:33.960 I know I hear that a lot up here in Canada.

00:23:35.600 What do you think about that idea?

00:23:37.620 Well, I, I don't know what Canada system's like, but the United States, we've been a lot,

00:23:41.520 we've, we take refugees from all over the world.

00:23:43.900 You know, there is, it's untrue that we're, I know that there's been a push for that sort

00:23:48.860 of economic system, but, uh, we allow, uh, you know, I mean, going back to the early,

00:23:53.420 you know, to the 1800s, you have Irish immigrants coming in, certainly weren't for Jewish immigrants, 0.82

00:23:58.140 Italian immigrants.

00:23:58.760 And later, um, from Central America and Mexico, you have a huge, you know, huge immigration.

00:24:05.020 I, I, I point this out in the book.

00:24:07.140 You take any, any people, any ethnic minority, any single one from the Japanese who are the 1.00

00:24:13.120 most successful here to whatever Nigerians, and they will always be better off here than 1.00

00:24:19.500 elsewhere.

00:24:19.800 There's a famous quote where this, uh, economist told Milton Friedman, who was a classical liberal

00:24:25.660 economist, uh, told him, you know, we have no poverty in Scandinavia.

00:24:30.220 And he said, that's amazing.

00:24:30.980 We have no Scandinavians who are poor in the United States either.

00:24:34.160 You know, we, I, I, I would challenge anyone to show me which ethnic minority here does, does

00:24:41.060 worse here than they would at home.

00:24:42.540 And it just doesn't exist.

00:24:43.640 And it's not because we're just picking and choosing, you know, Nigerians who are the richest.

00:24:49.220 I mean, Nigerians live on $1.90 a month, I think is the average.

00:24:52.900 I might be a little bit off there, but when they come here, they, they make almost a hundred

00:24:56.380 thousand per household.

00:24:57.780 So I think they do pretty well here.

00:25:00.300 So you're saying we need to avoid adopting a lot of these ideas that have caused problems

00:25:04.100 for these various European countries, turning them into a dying continent.

00:25:08.060 And yet when the American president, when the Canadian prime minister go and meet at these

00:25:12.600 international gab fests, they're at the G7, they're at the G20, which has a whole lot

00:25:17.420 of people from these countries.

00:25:18.900 And then I guess there can be a little bit of a peer pressure, uh, gang up where they

00:25:22.620 say, no, no, these ideas are perfect.

00:25:24.020 These are the ideas of the future.

00:25:25.180 I mean, are, are we not just heavily exposed to the constant drumbeat of we got to do what

00:25:29.060 they're doing?

00:25:30.260 Yeah, we are.

00:25:31.500 And again, I, you know, when I make this comparison, I'm comparing the United States to European 0.95

00:25:36.900 nations, it's not to say European nations are, aren't wealthy and successful in their

00:25:41.040 own ways compared to many other nations, obviously.

00:25:44.200 And it's not to say that Europeans never have any good ideas.

00:25:46.360 I mean, the, you know, most of our best ideas here in the United States are ideologically

00:25:50.600 speaking and philosophically speaking, come from Europe and have a tradition in Europe.

00:25:55.040 And that's just how it is.

00:25:56.480 It doesn't mean everyone can benefit from them, but they come from Europe.

00:26:00.040 Um, the problem I think is, is that they've abandoned most of those classical liberal ideas,

00:26:04.240 frankly, and that's the problem.

00:26:06.300 Um, and it's not to say that the president shouldn't go over there and say, Hey, maybe

00:26:09.740 they have a good idea.

00:26:10.660 But when you really look at each, um, cultural, economic, uh, you know, I, uh, data point,

00:26:19.940 you know, anything you can quantify, I mean, we, we beat them in almost every way.

00:26:23.460 So I'm not, I'm unsure why they're not asking us what they should be doing and why we're going

00:26:27.580 over there.

00:26:28.360 You know, that's an interesting idea though, bringing up how they've sort of jettisoned or

00:26:31.680 abandoned their own traditional, uh, European ideals from, from several centuries ago, because

00:26:37.120 of course you can still see and feel how American politics and civil society very much has those

00:26:43.460 founding father ideas in them.

00:26:44.660 I know there's, it's hotly debated and, and there's always a lot of drama over that and

00:26:49.500 talk about the second amendment and so forth. 0.99

00:26:51.540 Um, but, but still it, it seems to run through the American culture very, very vibrantly.

00:26:57.600 Um, why is it that America has, has held onto those values much more than Europe has held on

00:27:03.360 to the original values that gave them their initial, uh, prosperity and strong bonds?

00:27:09.360 Well, because they take them seriously.

00:27:10.840 I would say this as a, you know, I'm an atheist.

00:27:12.900 I think that the faith and the religion, religious aspects of the United States, the competition

00:27:17.760 and faith and the, and the serious way in which a lot of people still take it.

00:27:21.160 Uh, the belief that there's something bigger than yourself, certainly something bigger than

00:27:24.900 the state, um, lends itself to taking documents that have, you know, foundational rights, um,

00:27:32.000 natural rights more seriously.

00:27:33.580 Uh, anyone, everyone, uh, people have noted this, but, you know, Stalin era communist constitutions

00:27:39.660 were great.

00:27:40.360 You know, they had first amendments, second amendments and all that, but no one really takes them

00:27:44.300 seriously.

00:27:44.720 But here we do.

00:27:46.180 And I think that that's the difference now, obviously, you know, there are always specific

00:27:51.140 fights you can have about those amendments and how they're supposed to be implemented.

00:27:54.120 But in general, in the United States, we always agreed that the free speech, uh, you know,

00:27:59.620 so the right self-defense, these things were quite important.

00:28:02.100 I wouldn't say that I think that that's going in a different direction right now, but in general,

00:28:05.780 I think that's why we take it more seriously.

00:28:07.600 And when you do that, you don't turn to different sorts of, uh, deities, for instance, you know,

00:28:12.660 when you want to fill that void of fascism or communism, or now this gigantic bureaucracy,

00:28:17.740 uh, that just doesn't work out for human beings because, uh, there's really nothing to be found

00:28:23.780 there.

00:28:23.960 As I mentioned, no one's going to pick up a gun and defend the European union.

00:28:27.540 No, it's just an economic, uh, conglomerate, you know?

00:28:31.120 So, I mean, at least that's my theory on it.

00:28:34.180 Speaking of global gab fests, we just had the COP26, uh, global climate change summit in

00:28:39.040 Glasgow, uh, lots of push always for, well, from our own prime minister, Justin Trudeau

00:28:43.480 for a global carbon tax.

00:28:45.180 Now I know Joe Biden's only beginning to just broker the possibilities of a, of a domestic

00:28:49.480 carbon tax in the U S that would cost, I think only a third of what ours currently costs our

00:28:54.100 own residents.

00:28:55.200 And yet I see in Europe, they're having a lot of energy problems because they really bet

00:29:00.000 the farm on, well, on the wind farm.

00:29:02.100 And they're finding that that doesn't always materialize that, uh, uh, that renewable sources

00:29:06.540 aren't always the best way to go what's going on there with their energy policies on Europe.

00:29:10.440 And I understand that obviously Putin saying, well, Hey, I got energy.

00:29:13.320 I can sell it to you now.

00:29:14.240 And it just seems like the whole thing's a disaster waiting to happen.

00:29:17.200 Well, one of the things that Europeans have done better is, uh, their reliance on nuclear

00:29:21.240 energy has helped them keep carbon emissions down in ways that, uh, would be impossible

00:29:26.180 otherwise.

00:29:26.620 But then Germany abandoned basically their nuclear program and instead is now going to get

00:29:30.900 oil and gas from Russia.

00:29:32.540 So they have no business lecturing anyone about that.

00:29:35.240 The French have done a better job and some other nations have good programs as well.

00:29:40.520 You can't have it, you know, windmills are not going to be enough, you know, for you.

00:29:44.100 But, um, here's the thing.

00:29:46.260 Americans like to talk about climate change, uh, you know, bills and all of this and look

00:29:51.700 towards Europe, but Europeans pay massive tax or what we would consider massive taxes on

00:29:57.400 a gallon of gas and they pay a ton.

00:29:59.660 Their energy is super expensive.

00:30:00.880 It always is even before this spike in a way that Americans would never accept.

00:30:07.360 Even today, you know, you have a gallon of gas going for $4 and everyone's panicking

00:30:11.140 in this country.

00:30:11.960 I mean, it's the lifeblood of capitalism.

00:30:13.800 People do not want to pay a lot of money for their energy.

00:30:16.620 They want reliable and affordable energy.

00:30:18.680 And the Europeans, uh, are much more open to, to paying more.

00:30:23.700 They drive less.

00:30:24.580 They, you know, there are other reasons why, but I just don't think that works here.

00:30:28.360 Yeah.

00:30:28.680 Here in Canada, we have that sort of great landmass and most of us live close to the U S border.

00:30:32.720 So we can actually drive to another Canadian city or an American city within like 90 minutes

00:30:36.740 or, or two hours, but we still can go long stretches without seeing anything.

00:30:39.760 And I remember a number of years ago, I was driving through France and you're like, oh, we,

00:30:43.100 you know, we, we got to wait until the next town or what have you.

00:30:45.340 And then there's like two fields and you're like, oh, I'm in the next town already.

00:30:48.020 It's kind of funny how like, you're like, oh yeah, this is not geographically dispersed.

00:30:51.180 Like you just sort of get to the next community.

00:30:53.200 Yeah.

00:30:53.480 It's kind of easy to have a little car and whatever the price of gas is.

00:30:56.040 So be it.

00:30:56.960 It's the same thing with public transportation.

00:30:58.640 Like European cities have been around forever.

00:31:01.140 And, and frankly, much of that continent was flattened after world war II, so they could 0.89

00:31:05.160 rebuild in a different sort of way.

00:31:06.620 But the idea that you could have just trains and let's say a place like Denver, where I'd

00:31:11.000 lived for years, people love their cars because it gives them the freedom to go where they

00:31:14.460 want and you have a constantly growing community.

00:31:17.640 It's very difficult to have mass transit in the way that many progressives here want to

00:31:22.620 simply because of the size of the, of the nation and the type of culture around cars that

00:31:27.640 we have grown up with.

00:31:29.360 So I think climate zealotry, if I can call it, that is definitely one of the things that,

00:31:32.840 that progressives in Canada and the U S would like us to mimic from Europe.

00:31:36.640 What do you think are the other sort of top concerning issues?

00:31:39.580 Like if you have to say to people, uh, look, here's my message, here's one or two or three

00:31:43.160 things that they're doing in Europe.

00:31:44.320 They're saying we got to do here.

00:31:46.320 Watch out though.

00:31:47.580 Beware.

00:31:48.020 Don't touch these things.

00:31:50.200 Well, I have to say my biggest concern I think is, is, is building out the welfare

00:31:53.960 state in the way that, uh, Scandinavian nations have it obviously scaled to the United States.

00:31:59.480 That wouldn't entail building massive bureaucracies that infringe on individual freedoms,

00:32:04.360 but also worse elbow out community in the way that we know it locally.

00:32:09.480 So, um, you know, during COVID you have the CDC essentially running the country, making

00:32:14.980 laws, compelling people to act in certain ways.

00:32:17.940 This is what happens in Europe.

00:32:19.180 They're, these are not elected people.

00:32:20.620 These are bureaucrats.

00:32:21.540 Having bureaucrats run your country is, is dangerous.

00:32:24.860 I think it inhibits the dynamism that you were used to competition and the welfare state

00:32:30.580 itself.

00:32:31.200 Listen, I think there are poor people who need help and there always will be, and we

00:32:35.320 should do what we can, but when you start expanding the welfare state to everyone, like

00:32:38.700 they do in Scandinavia, Scandinavian countries, that is, uh, you know, that's a completely

00:32:43.680 different sort of, uh, proposition.

00:32:46.460 I think that that would make America, listen, we, we, we, I keep saying, listen, sorry, but

00:32:51.140 you are listening, but the, the, the United States, even if it became like Europe would

00:32:55.480 not become this, uh, would not be Nazi Germany or something.

00:32:59.140 It would still be a relatively free and rich country, but I think it would be a more insipid

00:33:03.220 place.

00:33:03.740 I think it would be less dynamic.

00:33:05.460 I think the people would be less free to do the things they want to do.

00:33:08.020 That's what concerns me more.

00:33:09.480 It's not as if I think, you know, that Germany is the Germany of old or anything.

00:33:13.400 I just think that it's un-American to try to transpose their culture and society on arms. 0.93

00:33:19.760 You know, David, I got to tell you before we go, one of the things that, that frustrated

00:33:23.520 me so much with, with COVID in the past year and a half is that whenever we had a European 0.73

00:33:28.600 country and Sweden was the main one that said, yeah, we're not doing the lockdowns.

00:33:32.400 We're doing things differently.

00:33:33.620 I'd always, the number of times I was on a radio program and I'd rant and rave and say,

00:33:36.760 everyone tells us we got to be more like Europe, particularly Northern Europe, particularly

00:33:40.920 like the, like the socialist states.

00:33:43.000 And then suddenly they're doing things like, oh, maybe we should try over here.

00:33:45.800 No, you can't talk about Sweden.

00:33:47.360 And now we're seeing it more and more, all of them, Denmark, Norway, Finland, just throw

00:33:51.060 them all into the mix.

00:33:51.900 They're all just saying like, no, we're not doing the COVID case counts anymore.

00:33:54.860 We're not doing this and that.

00:33:55.880 They've totally gone in a different direction.

00:33:57.860 I just feel like I'm fully on board with the thesis of your book.

00:34:01.140 I just feel like this is the one situation where I wish we could flip it over.

00:34:05.400 It's like, why can't we talk about what they're doing?

00:34:08.260 No, I think, I think that's right.

00:34:09.540 You know, I started writing this before COVID and most of it was done before COVID.

00:34:13.220 So it was difficult to sort of weave that in.

00:34:16.440 But, you know, so it's a more general, don't be like Europe.

00:34:19.500 But I noticed, yeah, Sweden, for instance, did not lock down its economy and it did better

00:34:23.720 than most countries.

00:34:25.180 And, you know, I think all Europeans had very different reactions to this.

00:34:29.140 So it's difficult to just generalize about the whole continent.

00:34:32.260 But you're right.

00:34:32.920 They did things, I think, that we should be more interested in.

00:34:35.300 And now you see the big protests in some of the countries, which actually surprised me.

00:34:38.960 I mean, Europeans typically don't do that sort of thing when they do it when they're part

00:34:43.280 of a union and don't want to work, but they usually don't do it for their personal freedom.

00:34:46.840 So I'm a little taken aback by that.

00:34:49.060 I don't think that the general trends change, but there is maybe something going on there,

00:34:53.120 I hope.

00:34:54.180 Are you optimistic that we're going to make the right choice, that things are going to

00:34:57.960 go in the right direction?

00:34:59.160 And Europe, to your point, may actually say, yeah, maybe we should pay attention to what

00:35:02.200 the U.S. is doing more.

00:35:03.080 Or do you think that this is a bit of an inexorable decline?

00:35:06.920 Absolutely.

00:35:07.680 I do think it is.

00:35:09.880 I am not.

00:35:10.840 I'm completely pessimistic about the future in that sense.

00:35:14.200 I think that right now in the United States, you have the left, which has gone far more

00:35:19.800 progressive, that is trying to grow what I view as a welfare state.

00:35:24.160 But you also have the right or parts of the right here that are increasingly open to illiberal

00:35:30.500 ideas about the world that look to Hungary and other places in Eastern Europe as examples

00:35:37.400 of what we should be doing.

00:35:38.660 So that all bothers me.

00:35:39.740 Basically, I think if government's doing something, it's probably wrong, which is why I'm a big

00:35:43.280 fan of gridlock.

00:35:44.100 The book is Eurotrash, Why America Must Reject the Failed Ideas of a Dying Continent, the 1.00

00:35:51.260 latest book by David Harsani.

00:35:53.060 David, thanks so much for joining us today.

00:35:54.520 Really great conversation.

00:35:56.100 Thank you.

00:35:56.420 I appreciate it.

00:35:57.060 Have a good one.

00:35:58.520 Full Comment is a post-media podcast.

00:36:00.740 I'm Anthony Fury.

00:36:01.860 This episode was produced by Andre Proulx, with theme music by Bryce Hall.

00:36:05.840 Kevin Libin is the executive producer.

00:36:08.260 You can subscribe to Full Comment on Apple Podcasts, Google, Spotify, and Amazon Music.

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00:36:19.940 Thanks for listening.

Full Comment - November 22, 2021

Let’s definitely not copy what they’re doing in Europe

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