Full Comment - Mark Carney is about to get hammered left and right by populism

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00:01:31.880 The New Democrat Party has a new leader, a populist lefty named Avi Lewis.

00:01:36.940 Mark Carney looks like he's about to get a majority.

00:01:39.440 That's pretty much for sure.

00:01:40.920 So what does all of this mean for the future of Canadian politics?

00:01:44.480 Hello and welcome to the Full Comment Podcast.

00:01:46.500 My name is Brian Lilly, your host.

00:01:48.340 And today, something different, a standard political panel, but with anything but standard guests.

00:01:53.380 Jenny Byrne is the former campaign manager of the Conservative Party of Canada and owner of Jenny Byrne and Associates.

00:02:01.460 Kim Wright is a longtime NDP strategist and the owner of Wright Strategies.

00:02:06.820 And Warren Kinsella, longtime liberal, was out of the fold for a while, appears to be back in now, runner of many war rooms and the man behind the Daisy Group.

00:02:18.480 So what do we make of the new NDP leader?

00:02:22.040 Let's do a quick around the table with that. 0.98

00:02:25.000 And, of course, we'll start with you, Kim.

00:02:26.600 You were in Winnipeg for the convention.

00:02:28.680 What do you make of Avi Lewis?

00:02:30.400 Well, you know, Winnipeg is always fantastic, especially in March.

00:02:35.260 Look, Avi Lewis got a lot of votes, something like 78% of the vote.

00:02:44.300 It was nearly 80,000 New Democrats voted online or in person.

00:02:50.100 We had 2,000 members at the convention. So, you know, thoughts that the NDP is dead and buried are greatly exaggerated. So good news from that perspective.

00:03:02.780 I think that there is, you know, there's always these moments in politics where parties seem to die on the electoral vine and then come back.

00:03:12.580 You know, we saw that in the Conservative Party when, you know, after Kim Campbell and it was just Jean Chaudet and Elsie Wayne and came back.

00:03:21.100 The New Democrats have done that as well.

00:03:24.040 So I think we're still early days on what does an Avi Lewis leadership actually look like, because campaigning is different than when you get the job.

00:03:34.020 But I would also like to say my condolences to the Lewis family over the death of the giant and legendary Stephen Lewis.

00:03:42.020 That is not only a loss for the Lewis family, but, you know, frankly, humanity in general.

00:03:49.260 Absolutely. Condolences to the family for that.

00:03:52.080 The question of Avi Lewis, though, Jenny, your party is now facing off against someone who, unlike the Liberals, does see the affordability issue as something that we need a solution to.

00:04:07.340 The Liberals don't seem to be interested in that issue all that much.

00:04:11.120 So you've got competition for the Conservatives now.

00:04:13.680 Very different answers than what Pierre Paulyev and the Conservatives will put forward.

00:04:17.460 But in talking about a government-run grocery store and government-run cell phone company and internet company and government banking through Canada Post, economically illiterate as far as I'm concerned, but populist and might work. What are your thoughts?

00:04:33.820 I guess we'll see. The jury is out on that. I think that it is economic lunacy as well. I think that Canadians are going to see through most of these policies, and as they're announced, they're going to be shredded, not just by other political parties, but of members of the media and economists across the board in terms of how these don't work.

00:05:01.740 We're seeing kind of a trial balloons in Toronto with Olivia Chow announcing a government-run grocery store pilot, as well as the mayor of New York City, who has other issues we don't need to belabor.

00:05:21.940 So I think the jury is out in terms of that.

00:05:25.780 What I found in watching it, this is a party that definitely has picked a lane.

00:05:31.140 This is not the party that I recall when I first got involved in politics or the backbone where union were very much members of the of the union.

00:05:41.160 There didn't appear to be a lot of reach out to what you would call the blue collar unions and trying to win those votes back, which we've seen kind of bleed over the last 10 years.

00:05:53.440 And so I think that's going to be also an interesting, the NDP have definitely seemingly picked the lane and it's not going back to the days of Ed Broadbent and Jack Layton.

00:06:06.180 Warren, your thoughts on Avi Lewis? I know you used to go on his TV show many years ago on CBC.

00:06:13.840 Yeah, it's hard to believe CBC actually tolerated debate at one point, but they did.

00:06:19.660 so he had a show called counter spin a million years ago and i was uh somebody that they would

00:06:25.600 call to go on the show and um you know i knew he was a new democrat and all that stuff all of us

00:06:33.520 did but he was likable you know and very engaging guy very media savvy um and you know he wasn't

00:06:43.760 doctrinaire and he didn't over talk us. And he was a good guy. He was likable. And so I've been

00:06:52.220 a little bit surprised, you know, further to Jenny's point, you know, what is he doing? Like

00:06:57.460 some of the things he's said during the leadership race are crazy, you know, and some of the things 0.72

00:07:04.060 he said about Judaism and Zionism are awful. And I was watching him and I'm like, has he changed

00:07:10.880 or like, what's going on?

00:07:12.120 And then I thought, well, maybe he's doing what Richard Nixon

00:07:15.760 used to say in a different context, which is, you know,

00:07:18.040 to get the nomination, you run as far to the extreme

00:07:21.500 as possible, and then as soon as you get it,

00:07:23.900 you start running back.

00:07:25.780 And, uh, cause you know, all of us know, all of us

00:07:28.480 have been involved in leadership races.

00:07:30.120 And sometimes you gotta get your candidate to say

00:07:32.440 something that's a little bit wackadoodle in order

00:07:35.160 to get some ink.

00:07:36.480 So, um, maybe that's what he was up to, but you know,

00:07:40.780 whether his party is nutty or not, we also all know that, you know, people vote according to

00:07:47.340 party affiliation and leader. And this leader has been handed a gift by Mark Carney. You know,

00:07:53.580 Carney has shamelessly stolen planks and ideas from Polyev's Tories, and he's gotten away with

00:08:03.540 it to a large extent, but that's created a lot of real estate. Pierre does keep telling him,

00:08:08.600 please steal my ideas yeah so that creates a lot of real estate though just in terms of the

00:08:13.880 so-called ideological spectrum it creates real estate for the ndp to grow in and uh you know

00:08:21.900 get out of this rump situation that they're in so i you know i know him and i like him you know and

00:08:28.560 uh he's uh he's a likable guy i think he's better at media than i think people realize because he

00:08:34.420 He grew up in this political media family.

00:08:37.280 I think he'll be very good with the media, Kim.

00:08:40.040 A few things said there I'd like to get your response to.

00:08:43.340 The policies, you know, I don't think something like the government-run grocery store is something that he just threw out there.

00:08:51.180 It seems to be having a moment on the political left right now.

00:08:55.720 New York, Toronto, and now the federal NDP.

00:08:58.720 uh it's the type of thing that uh i i think a lot of voters would say well it'll lower my

00:09:05.760 my bill so i'm behind it whether it'll work or not that's another matter so what are your

00:09:12.120 thoughts on that and and something that jenny alluded to the issue of uh the fight for blue

00:09:19.480 collar workers um you know the conservatives have made a lot of inroads in places like hamilton

00:09:24.320 Timmons, Windsor. They followed to a degree Doug Ford's playbook that he ran provincially. He did

00:09:31.580 the same thing. Is the NDP just giving up on blue-collar voters? No, not at all. And, you

00:09:39.980 know, there's a couple of parts to that I want to unpack a little bit. You know, the joke is that,

00:09:46.620 you know, Canada is five telcos, three grocery stores in a trench coat, right? Like, so maybe

00:09:53.520 we do need to shake things up a little bit. We'll see if this works. But at some point,

00:09:57.940 you have to try new ideas instead of just complaining about them all the time. So let's

00:10:02.060 give this a thought. I think there's a lot of details to be worked out, as we all know,

00:10:06.760 of how this might work. But, you know, let's see what that looks like. Because Canadians

00:10:10.780 are, pardon the pun, starving for a new way in which we get access to groceries and how farmers

00:10:19.040 can sell product directly to Canadians. So there is something to explore here.

00:10:25.440 One of the things that, you know, wherever you sit on the political spectrum, people like

00:10:31.260 authenticity. And what they feel like they get from Doug Ford and Mark Carney, and now of Avi

00:10:39.100 Lewis, is authentic. You may not like his policies, but you're like, you know what, I respect that you

00:10:45.560 authentically are showing up and showing how you believe. It is the criticism of what we've seen

00:10:51.840 on Pierre Paglia for years, right? Especially with blue collar workers. You know, he'll go out and buy

00:10:56.700 a pair of work boots, forget to take the price tag off the darn things. Well, he's like, I'm out there 0.96

00:11:01.060 with the people and their festivals, which was the most absurd quote I've ever heard from a Canadian

00:11:05.740 politician in my life. But there we are. But people are looking for that authenticity. And I think

00:11:10.920 when they start to see that, and they saw it with Jack Layton, and they saw it with Ed Broadbent,

00:11:15.200 and they saw it with Stephen Lewis, you know, they're looking for that. And so I don't know

00:11:19.680 how he'll play up in Northern Ontario, but I know that the morning after he was elected leader,

00:11:27.080 he had breakfast with the head of the Canadian Labour Congress. There have been lots of

00:11:30.980 conversations with Labour leaders and trying to unite those various access points. And more

00:11:39.280 importantly, it's how do you talk to people not just in their leadership, but on the ground and

00:11:44.240 showing up when it matters, not just when it's convenient. So one of the things I would say that

00:11:48.600 to that, though, Kim, is people are people are looking for for something. And blue collar workers,

00:11:55.000 which voted more for the Conservative Party in the last election than what they did for the NDP,

00:11:59.900 what they're looking for is is stability, just like every other Canadian. And there are close

00:12:05.280 to a million unionized workers in the different resource sectors in northern Ontario, in the

00:12:10.140 mines in the oil sands. And these are not just for the core industries, but also for the

00:12:16.180 industries that support them. There's a reason that Wab Canoe has a much different opinion than

00:12:22.220 Abby Lewis. And you have two NDE premiers that have come out against his policies regarding

00:12:28.520 that. So I think that there can be a lot of like, you know, quote, showing up when it matters. But

00:12:34.580 What these what these workers are looking for, what these voters are looking for is is prosperity and paying their bills and enjoying life.

00:12:43.120 And right now, the policies that Abby Lewis and in the past several years that the NDP espoused is essentially putting them out of putting these sectors out of work, putting and putting these blue collar workers out of jobs.

00:12:55.580 Well, let's talk about infighting, though, within the party.

00:12:59.440 um so immediately after avi lewis is elected naheed nenshi uh comes out and and distances

00:13:08.160 himself uh and then carla beck so naheed nenshi obviously the leader of the alberta ndp carla

00:13:15.880 beck leader of saskatchewan ndp says uh you know you got issues well we fundamentally disagree

00:13:21.940 uh jenny you went through an election campaign where there were factions within the conservative

00:13:27.740 movement fighting it doesn't help does it no the internal battles never never uh never help

00:13:34.420 so i mean look there's going to be there's going to be moments in everybody's political family

00:13:39.840 where they don't get along right brian you rightly point out right doug ford and pierre

00:13:44.180 paliev are not besties they're not you know going shopping together um but you know these thing these 0.88

00:13:51.480 these are part of the discourse and what good leaders do two pretty harsh statements though

00:13:56.400 from Beck and Nenshi.

00:13:58.020 And what good leaders figure out how to do,

00:14:00.680 and we'll see what Avi decides to do with it,

00:14:02.940 but what good leaders try to do

00:14:04.700 is find where there are common grounds

00:14:06.500 and where there's not.

00:14:07.680 And he did that with Wab Kanu on the weekend.

00:14:10.060 We'll see what happens with the rest of him.

00:14:12.420 And he's also, I understand,

00:14:14.540 has reached out to all of the leadership candidates

00:14:16.780 and trying to figure out ways

00:14:18.440 in which they can all come together.

00:14:20.900 Families will always disagree,

00:14:22.360 but it's how you show up for each other

00:14:24.300 when it matters.

00:14:26.400 Warren, do you think left-wing populism

00:14:29.140 can work in a Canadian federal election?

00:14:33.180 Yeah, for sure it can.

00:14:34.260 And, you know, Mondami's win, which was a

00:14:38.220 significant, you know, he had some

00:14:39.840 formidable forces tilting against him and

00:14:43.700 he won big and, you know, notwithstanding

00:14:47.740 his views on Israel and everything else,

00:14:50.100 he, you know, he won the city that's got

00:14:52.720 the biggest, uh, expat Jewish population in

00:14:57.520 the world outside of Israel.

00:14:59.320 So like it, yes, I think that, you know,

00:15:03.520 what is the era we're in?

00:15:04.780 We're all in the Trump era.

00:15:06.400 We may not live in the United States, but

00:15:08.500 all of us deal with Trump in different ways.

00:15:11.620 You know, he's going to be on TV, uh,

00:15:14.320 tonight we have, don't have a clue what

00:15:16.400 he's going to say.

00:15:17.020 Is he going to end NATO?

00:15:18.700 Is he going to end the war?

00:15:20.000 Is he going to talk about Sharpies?

00:15:21.860 like, what's he going to do? And so that has a consequence on every politician, Mr. Polyev,

00:15:27.840 Mr. Carney, Mr. Lewis. And, but, but I think, you know, I look at politics as a pendulum,

00:15:34.580 everything's a reaction, right? And if you go too far to the right, as I think things have with

00:15:40.420 Trump, then you get a Mondani. And the same thing in Canada, if, if Carney is seen as repudiating

00:15:49.140 traditional liberal positions on stuff like a carbon tax or capital gains, all the things that

00:15:55.740 he's walked back. At some point, people are going to go, okay, I don't like this. And like, you know,

00:16:02.360 on the grocery store thing and all that, I know, you know, if you're at the Fraser Institute,

00:16:06.540 of course, you're going to make fun of stuff like that. But right now people are hurting,

00:16:11.280 as Polly have himself said repeatedly during the campaign. And, um, they are, and I don't think

00:16:17.560 They give a shit if they, you know, if they 0.98

00:16:20.060 got to go and buy bananas at a government owned 1.00

00:16:22.100 grocery store and they get a better deal, they're

00:16:24.160 going to do it.

00:16:25.460 So people are much more, you know, much less

00:16:30.060 preoccupied with ideology and ideological purity

00:16:34.080 than perhaps, you know, the rest of us are.

00:16:36.740 And so I think we're in this weird time where

00:16:38.880 weird things can happen, where the NDP can indeed

00:16:42.800 come back and take advantage of, you know, some

00:16:46.660 the moves that Polyev and Carney have made. I would argue we've got three populist leaders

00:16:51.500 for heading up all the parties. They all have a bit of populism within them. Polyev, Carney,

00:16:57.600 and now Lewis. We'll see. Let's turn to Carney, who's about to get a majority. And I'll ask this

00:17:04.220 question, because it's not really an argument, will he get a majority or won't. He's going to

00:17:09.100 win at least two by-elections. I think he's going to win all three. Fred DeLore had a great piece

00:17:14.420 out a little while ago explaining how the

00:17:17.240 Liberals can spend $330,000 in Terrebonne,

00:17:21.240 the Montreal riding, three times as much as

00:17:23.520 the Bloc Québécois because of the way the

00:17:25.600 rules are written.

00:17:26.960 And that gives them a huge advantage.

00:17:28.940 So what do you do after that?

00:17:30.700 We'll start with Warren.

00:17:33.480 Would you prorogue?

00:17:34.600 Because as I wrote in my column for the

00:17:36.400 Toronto Sun, I'd prorogue, take control of

00:17:39.140 those committees.

00:17:40.300 100%.

00:17:40.740 100%.

00:17:41.740 You know, because I, you know, I think most people don't even know how to spell the word, but it is an important word in these circumstances because, you know, in a minority parliament, minority legislature, you don't have control of committees in the way that you need to.

00:17:55.920 I mean, look what happened to their budget bill.

00:17:58.020 It got, had to ping around the system for weeks and weeks and weeks because they didn't have the control they would otherwise have in a majority parliament.

00:18:07.020 So I think it, it'll be pretty consequential for them.

00:18:10.180 Will it be of significance for Canadians?

00:18:13.400 I'm more skeptical about that.

00:18:16.040 I'm more cynical about that.

00:18:18.080 My sense, I don't know if I agree that Carney's a populist.

00:18:22.120 I think he's an incrementalist.

00:18:24.280 I think he regards his mandate letter is just offsetting damage from Trump.

00:18:30.080 So he's like the, he's the janitor doing clean up in aisle three.

00:18:34.160 That's what he does.

00:18:35.960 But I actually don't know what Mark Carney believes in.

00:18:39.420 And again, you know, for a guy like Polly

00:18:43.500 Eve or a guy like Lewis, that spells

00:18:46.560 opportunity, uh, because I know where

00:18:49.120 Polly Eve is.

00:18:50.020 I know what he thinks, or I think I do.

00:18:52.700 And I know where Lewis is at, or I think

00:18:55.680 I do, but Carney is this like this chameleon

00:18:58.900 and, um, you know, it's obviously worked

00:19:02.200 for him in the past year, but maybe not so

00:19:04.560 much in the next year or two.

00:19:05.720 I've got an almost 500-page book on my desk here called Values that was supposed to tell us what he thought.

00:19:13.640 But, you know, as is always the case with Liberals, Warren, if you don't like their values or their principles, hang on five minutes.

00:19:20.500 They've got others.

00:19:21.700 Were you able to get through the whole thing, Brian?

00:19:24.260 Oh, no.

00:19:25.160 No.

00:19:26.400 It's a cure for insomnia.

00:19:28.560 Truly, the amount of people who chat GPT, what should I know about this book, is probably pretty remarkable.

00:19:35.720 I started it several times.

00:19:38.520 Yeah, I dive in now and again.

00:19:41.100 I read parts and then I stop.

00:19:43.160 But on the prorogation, you know, a lot of people think, well, that means that you've got to shut down the House for months.

00:19:49.220 I guess the way that Trudeau did when he resigned or Stephen Harper in the 08 crisis.

00:19:56.680 But Louis Saint Laurent, Lester Pearson, and Pierre Trudeau all prorogued the House of Commons and started a new session the very same day.

00:20:04.820 Several of them.

00:20:05.720 including Trudeau did it at least twice, I believe. The next day, Brian Mulroney did it

00:20:11.460 the next day. That's how I would do it, Jenny. Would you prorogue if you were Mark Carney or

00:20:18.520 in the positions we all expect him to be in on April 14th? Yeah, well, and just from a practical

00:20:25.300 point of view, it won't be April 14th because, of course, the by-election, the writ of return has,

00:20:30.400 the returns have to come back through Elections Canada. So we're probably looking closer to

00:20:33.880 to maybe it's 10 to 14 days normally. So we're probably looking closer to May to May 1st. But

00:20:39.360 yeah, I agree with Warren's point. If I were them, I would want it cleaner and try to get

00:20:46.280 through committee. I'm not sure there's much worse trading, though. The conservatives obviously

00:20:50.440 aren't going to horse trade. And I don't think the bloc will either. So I think that Carney

00:20:57.280 will pirogue. He may be putting that out there, just basically saying, you know, I don't want

00:21:02.940 to prorog. I don't want to start over again. But of course, the bloc and the conservatives are

00:21:06.840 not playing ball, are not working with us. But I don't think that if, like, I believe he's going

00:21:17.040 to prorog. He's going to have a majority. Like, there is no thinking in what I think, and, you

00:21:24.400 know, Warren and Kim can speak for themselves, in a universe where he is not going to take advantage

00:21:29.220 of having a majority on committees.

00:21:32.340 It's just the mammoth power that that gives to government,

00:21:38.080 having been on both sides, a minority and a majority government

00:21:42.580 in terms of overseeing committees, it's too great of a prize,

00:21:47.180 a treasure for him not to do it.

00:21:49.500 And Kim, what about you?

00:21:51.080 If you were in Mark Carney's shoes, what would you do?

00:21:54.080 um so yeah he should he will likely perot clear the decks get this done i mean he's done a nice

00:22:01.480 combination of political red rover uh as well as some by elections but it isn't a super duper

00:22:08.260 majority right like because i call it in ontario right where you can really just do anything and

00:22:12.940 some people can miss a day or here what have you and you can fire your mpps you still have to you

00:22:19.380 still have to manage caucus. And as we all know on this podcast, caucus has no control until they

00:22:26.040 choose to have control. And there is a moment that every caucus chooses to seize control of the

00:22:33.980 leader and the prime minister. Right now, Mark Carney is doing popular things. I don't know about

00:22:39.980 populist things, but there is certainly some popular things he's doing. You know, him and Doug

00:22:45.480 Ford and Olivia Chow made a really huge announcement on infrastructure and cutting of

00:22:51.220 development charges. You know, this is a thing for years that homeowners, it is actually one

00:22:57.060 of the things that costs a lot, especially if you're in a city, the infrastructure costs of

00:23:01.140 transit are massive and made it so that transit can be built in Toronto. So finally, after 20

00:23:08.940 years of talking about a Waterfront East LRT, they have found a way to, Mayor Chow and Premier

00:23:17.600 Ford and Mark Kearney have figured out a way to get this finally built. This is going to be massive.

00:23:23.400 So it isn't just about tinkering around the edges. You know, what people are looking for is,

00:23:29.000 are we finally going to get those projects done that people have talked about for years?

00:23:33.040 I think there is a lot of deals to be had always with Mark Kearney, and certainly Mayor Chow has taken advantage of that where she can.

00:23:42.260 But I think Mark Kearney's got to figure out what kind of prime minister he wants to be past the first year, past the first two years.

00:23:49.800 What does him getting a majority change, Kim?

00:23:54.200 I think it's psychological.

00:23:55.800 In terms of how Canadian politics works for the next while, I don't see as having an election until 2029.

00:24:03.040 What does that change for your party?

00:24:06.320 So I think it gives the new leader, it gives Alvi Lewis the time to build up those EDAs, build up those writing institutions, find those candidates, raise some money, because it's no secret that there's a little shortage of change in the NDP coffers at the moment.

00:24:22.880 So getting an opportunity to build up that credibility with Canadians as well as credibility in our coffers is really going to be helpful.

00:24:31.820 From a practical perspective, I'm not sure that Canadians will see a significant change in how Mr. Carney governs.

00:24:40.060 I think it is a bit of vibes, especially for those who are around Ottawa and who cover Ottawa, about calling it a majority government.

00:24:48.120 As I said earlier, he still will have to manage the business of the House.

00:24:53.420 He will still have to manage who shows up to vote and who doesn't show up to vote and who's whispering the corridors and how deals might be done on the sidelines.

00:25:01.100 So I think that this will give him a proverbial spring in his step.

00:25:05.760 But practically speaking, we're not going to the polls anytime soon.

00:25:10.020 Jenny, I've heard some conservatives say that for Pierre Polyev and the leadership around him, that Carney getting a majority might be a bit of a blessing.

00:25:22.460 Just had a senior conservative saying that to me the other day.

00:25:25.880 What do you think of it?

00:25:27.280 Well, I think I agree with Kim.

00:25:28.640 I don't think that there's an election any time coming.

00:25:31.060 So I think time is definitely on the side for Pierre and for the conservatives.

00:25:35.640 I think right now the Canadian economy is somewhat teetering, walking a tightrope, so to speak.

00:25:43.880 And so there's a lot of expectations in terms of Carney and his ability to negotiate with Donald Trump and start to make changes on affordability, which I agree you said earlier, that seems to be very low down on this government's priority.

00:26:01.480 I think, though, there will be proven to be frustration among the opposition.

00:26:06.280 Majority committees, when the government has the majority, there is very little wiggle room.

00:26:11.780 Right now, the opposition can band together and set the agenda.

00:26:16.760 They can call witnesses.

00:26:18.500 They can bring forward witnesses that are very unhelpful to the government.

00:26:23.500 Once once that you have a majority in committee, then it's all driven solely by it is all driven solely by the government.

00:26:31.920 They can shut things down. They can there's they can they control everything.

00:26:37.060 And also just from a practical point of view, it means that conservatives will lose spots on the committee.

00:26:42.640 And of course, they are plum positions.

00:26:46.080 MPs all have the committees that they like to sit on. And with the majority, that takes away kind of a spoil, so to speak, that the leader has in terms of caucus management.

00:27:00.020 And a little bit of extra money from those positions never hurts anyone.

00:27:04.000 They would still keep. But just a committee membership isn't extra money. But people like the committee member, like, you know, there's a very large contingent of Western caucus members. The AG committee is one of the most asked and sought for committee within our party, for example. And so there's going to be one less person that's going to be able to sit on that committee. So that's from a practical point of view that will be a caucus management issue.

00:27:33.080 Warren, what does it change?

00:27:34.380 Just vibes or more?

00:27:36.980 I don't know.

00:27:38.160 I mean, for weirdos like us, it's a big deal.

00:27:43.960 I mean, to me, a majority, it's like, well, so what?

00:27:46.600 What do you do with it?

00:27:47.820 You know, what are you going to do?

00:27:50.340 And again, you know, I think all of us have been watching Carney over the past year.

00:27:55.320 It's a year this month. 0.99

00:27:57.100 And he doesn't have a trade deal with Trump.

00:28:01.060 Um, he doesn't have any certainty on, you know, a multiple economic fronts.

00:28:06.960 Um, we live in a more uncertain world than we had, I think even a year ago.

00:28:12.620 So, um, you know, I think there's a bit of a boomerang out there for

00:28:16.540 Carney that might be heading his way where people's expectations are, well,

00:28:20.940 look, you know, you're this boring, bland banker that we elected to give

00:28:24.920 us some certainty in our lives at a time when there's not much.

00:28:29.080 And you haven't delivered.

00:28:32.000 And so I don't, you know, for sure, he is a very popular

00:28:37.140 prime minister at the moment.

00:28:39.080 He is going to have a majority.

00:28:40.680 I think The Economist just reported that it's the first

00:28:43.840 prime minister in Canadian history.

00:28:45.780 I don't know if they're right.

00:28:46.820 Who's going to achieve a majority through by-elections.

00:28:50.160 That's never happened before, according to The Economist.

00:28:53.940 But, you know, he's on the bubble and what the people

00:28:57.280 giveth the people can take up away so he's got to do something with it it's not enough just to have

00:29:02.340 a majority you got to give people some security and like people are anxious they're afraid you

00:29:09.180 know they're all of us hear it all the time we hear about businesses we know and we've gone to

00:29:14.580 have gone under or people who have moved away or had to sell their house because they can't afford

00:29:19.860 anymore that stuff's really happening in the real world and they want to hear from politicians

00:29:25.220 about it, and they're prepared to do weird things

00:29:28.740 if the politician doesn't listen, like Mondami.

00:29:33.200 You know, Mondami's an example of what happens 0.99

00:29:35.880 when people are angry with the choices

00:29:39.120 that are available to them.

00:29:41.160 So, you know, I think there's a risk there to Polly Ev,

00:29:44.840 there's a risk there to Louis, but the principal risk

00:29:47.980 is to Carney, because he's the one who's prime minister.

00:29:51.640 Okay, we'll take a quick break, and when we come back,

00:29:53.400 I'll ask about polling, the latest numbers from Leger. More in moments.

00:29:59.340 There were so many missed opportunities to catch this before the devastating thing happened.

00:30:06.060 A third of them we found literally in the phone book. These people were not afraid.

00:30:11.740 They knew that nobody was effectively hunting them. They knew they had escaped justice,

00:30:16.840 that they were going to die in their beds. When I give talks at law schools is that the

00:30:20.260 Charter ultimately is empowering a minority, and it's empowering a minority that's a guild

00:30:24.240 across the country, and it's a fairly elite guild, and the guild is lawyers.

00:30:27.700 Families who were split by referendum and brothers and sisters who never talked to each

00:30:34.040 other for years after the referendum because they were so angry at each other because of

00:30:38.500 the emotions on both sides.

00:30:40.360 The reason he was assassinated was not because he was trying to put a satellite into space,

00:30:45.160 but because the gun that he was creating had other applications

00:30:51.240 that made him and the gun very dangerous.

00:30:55.540 It's finally here.

00:30:57.100 A new season of Canada Did What?

00:30:59.380 Host media podcast that revisits the big Canadian political events

00:31:03.100 you might think you remember and tells you the real story you never knew.

00:31:07.920 I'm Tristan Hopper.

00:31:09.180 The voices you just heard are from our brand new season two.

00:31:12.680 We will unpack some of the pivotal moments that helped define our country,

00:31:16.840 often without a vote, usually without a plan,

00:31:19.500 and sometimes without anyone admitting what they'd done.

00:31:23.240 We'll find out how Canada became a welcoming paradise

00:31:26.320 for untold numbers of Nazi war criminals after the Second World War.

00:31:30.920 We let them build monuments to their wartime exploits

00:31:33.700 and even ended up honoring a Nazi fighter in the House of Commons.

00:31:37.740 And I'm sorry to say that none of that happened by accident.

00:31:41.260 We'll bring you the little-known story of a troubled Canadian rocket scientist

00:31:45.180 who turned to a sinister life of selling giant guns to terrible people.

00:31:50.600 And if that sounds like a spy novel, it ends like one too.

00:31:53.980 You'll hear the behind-the-scenes story of Quebec's attempted secession from Canada

00:31:57.780 and how very close we came to a political crisis that would have made Brexit look like a picnic.

00:32:04.200 You'll hear about how the much-celebrated Charter of Rights and Freedoms

00:32:08.060 turned into something its creators never wanted, and how many of the most extravagant warnings

00:32:13.400 about the document were all quickly proven true. And you'll even hear about how authorities

00:32:19.220 bungled multiple chances to stop the deadliest terrorist attack in our country's history

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00:32:29.540 stories about power, ambition, madness, and the things about Canada that a lot of people

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00:32:47.200 Latest numbers from Leger

00:32:49.360 aren't good for either the NDP or the Conservatives.

00:32:53.040 They're okay, I guess, for the Bloc Québécois.

00:32:55.440 But right now, nationally,

00:32:57.340 they've got the Mark Carney's Liberal Party at 48%,

00:33:01.280 Pierre Polyev's Conservative Party at 34%,

00:33:03.340 4%. And in a poll

00:33:05.320 taken before Avi Lewis was elected

00:33:07.140 leader, Don Davies, New Democrats

00:33:09.360 at 6%.

00:33:10.900 I was going over this with one of our editors.

00:33:13.800 This is the Leger poll for Post

00:33:15.340 Media. And the

00:33:17.260 editor said, well, who

00:33:19.240 is Mark Carney's

00:33:20.500 voting base right now? And I said,

00:33:23.440 based on this, everyone

00:33:25.320 because he's leading among men.

00:33:27.360 He's leading among women.

00:33:29.520 He is leading among 18

00:33:31.420 to 34-year-olds. He's not

00:33:33.340 leading among 35 to 54, that's Pierre Polyev and the Conservatives, 41 to 38, big lead among voters

00:33:40.280 55 plus, leading among urban, leading among suburban, and very close on rural, almost tied

00:33:48.600 with the Conservatives. So how do the other two parties represented here, not by Warren Kinsella,

00:33:56.640 How do the Conservatives and the NDP shift those numbers?

00:34:01.300 And I say that, Warren knows my saying very well,

00:34:05.300 voters are fickle, polls can change, campaigns matter.

00:34:09.060 But how do you do that right now when it seems that all that has to happen

00:34:14.780 for Mark Carney is for Donald Trump to say something about us

00:34:17.760 or start a war or, you know, irritate Canadian voters somehow

00:34:23.140 and Mark Carney's polling numbers go up?

00:34:25.820 How do you how do you fix that, Jenny?

00:34:28.340 Well, I think that the it's what we talked about earlier on on on the podcast, Brian, is that the number one issue for Canadians across all polls that we're seeing publicly is affordability.

00:34:40.580 It's grocery prices, it's housing, it's inflation.

00:34:44.000 And so this has been a issue that Mark Carney is seemingly uncomfortable with.

00:34:48.480 I watch Question Period almost daily, like some of us, I'm sure a lot of us, a lot of us do when they can.

00:34:55.820 And it's the issue that he is most uncomfortable being asked in the House when he is challenged on this.

00:35:02.200 And so the number one issue among Canadians is affordability.

00:35:07.620 And that is an issue that the Conservatives lead on, that have led on.

00:35:13.280 And that is an issue that they continue to talk about.

00:35:16.420 So I think that it's extremely smart for Pierre and for the Conservative team to continue pushing those issues.

00:35:24.100 It's Mark Carney was the one that said, you know, judge me by the cost of groceries around last year at this time.

00:35:31.320 And so so those I think that that is the that that is what the conservative focus should be, is the the issue set as it is now, because I don't see it, unfortunately, for Canadians getting any better.

00:35:46.640 And now you've got a bit of competition from Kim and the NDP there, though. 1.00

00:35:50.060 You're going to be able to hold on to that issue.

00:35:51.660 well i think well i think we'll see as as i said this has been the driving issue for

00:35:57.120 uh pierre's uh leadership right back from way before his leadership he was the first person

00:36:03.100 that was talking about inflation and all of the uh chattering class and uh a lot of the media

00:36:08.700 types not i'm not saying all of them brian uh some of the media types were saying it was ridiculous

00:36:13.480 it's going to be stagflation not inflation and so uh this is something that he has been uh he has

00:36:19.420 absolutely been, he has been driving, he has been driving. And frankly, if Abby Lewis and the NDP

00:36:25.000 stay on the populist track on the other side, then they're probably going to look at appeal

00:36:32.560 to voters that potentially could be different. So where Mark Carney is now is he has the potential

00:36:38.340 of being middled on both sides of the political spectrum. Kim, I remember Jack Layton's team

00:36:45.460 coming into our offices on the Hill 2011 before the election.

00:36:51.860 It was a couple months before, and they did their dog and pony show,

00:36:55.620 and they said, here's why you folks, this is in the TV network days,

00:37:00.460 here's why you folks at Sun News Network should make sure you cover us,

00:37:03.360 and they detailed how they were going to do what Jenny just described,

00:37:07.620 slicing away, said the conservatives are going to eat at the liberals

00:37:11.640 from the left, we're going to eat at the conservatives from the right,

00:37:15.240 We're going to slice away at the Liberals from the left.

00:37:18.200 And they did.

00:37:19.580 Is that part of what they have to do to get those polling numbers up?

00:37:24.220 Do you think Avi gets a bump just for being a new leader?

00:37:27.020 How do they turn it around and get it back up to 15% to 20% at least?

00:37:32.380 And keeping in mind that the way our polling, the voter efficiency,

00:37:36.880 and I know there are always people who roll their eyes when they say that,

00:37:39.640 but there's a reason that Marit Stiles is the leader of the official opposition

00:37:43.280 and Bonnie Crombie's out of a job, right? 0.99

00:37:45.140 It does actually matter in a lot of places the way the NDP numbers shake out. But this will also come down to the leader and his authenticity, their ability to create movements and moments, and how do you make sure you're capitalizing on training those volunteers, getting those voters to come out and put their votes into the ballot box.

00:38:12.240 the logistics of old school campaigning and an ability to pivot depending upon

00:38:19.240 what's happening in the world. One of the things I think most conservatives I talk to

00:38:24.860 continue to shake their head at is that Pierre Polyev never has really changed his message. I

00:38:30.860 mean, if you give him the opportunity, he's still talking about acts and the tax

00:38:34.240 and, you know, the variations of verbing the noun.

00:38:38.060 The industrial carbon tax did just go up again.

00:38:40.260 Right. But the way in which he's still fighting, you know, to, you know, the former prime minister and not the current prime minister, it kind of starts to wear thin.

00:38:51.540 So what I expect to see from Avi Lewis and his team as they take leadership of the party is how do you do those grassroots organizing and also telling the story of why what the NDP did, in particular around dental care, has mattered to thousands and thousands of Canadians.

00:39:14.340 It has transformed people's lives, and maybe that's not the case for everybody who maybe has a great insurance program, but most Canadians don't, and it has mattered immensely to people's lives. So the practical, as well as the organizing, as well as the authenticity, and that's kind of how you start to slice it, and having a plan, and having a program, and how you talk to all Canadians, not just a micro subset.

00:39:37.700 that. Jagmeet Singh could not sell all the things that he was able to get out of the Trudeau

00:39:43.620 government. So that's why I believe he has the job. We'll see if he's a better salesman. Warren,

00:39:49.740 have you ever worked for a leader, prime minister, premier, that's been sitting at 40%

00:39:55.440 looking towards 50? And is there a danger in that? Yeah, a little bit. I mean, certainly the

00:40:04.260 danger for liberals always you know they're the most lethal element in their dna is arrogance

00:40:11.300 right and um no liberals aren't arrogant what and you start to hang out with um yeah but you know 0.99

00:40:19.220 all of them could be assholes brian like come on i'm sorry there's no monopoly on virtue but the 0.99

00:40:25.740 for liberals it's particularly lethal um because they they're so often susceptible to it you know 1.00

00:40:33.560 They've been in government more than anybody else at the federal level.

00:40:37.220 And they do feel, you know, you saw this so often during the Trudeau era where they,

00:40:42.720 they just felt that they had an entitlement to power and people, people

00:40:47.680 got pretty pissed off about that.

00:40:49.560 And we're getting ready to punish them in a big, big way.

00:40:52.000 So, um, I think that is the danger of having a huge majority.

00:40:56.000 And then also caucus management, you have people, cause they all think

00:40:59.680 they should be prime minister, every single one of them.

00:41:02.600 And, you know, some of them aren't fit to be a postmaster

00:41:05.640 of a three house town, but they all think that they're

00:41:08.820 brilliant and they're all ambitious.

00:41:11.380 And if they're not getting into cabinet or you're

00:41:13.960 not managing them properly, then you start to have

00:41:16.540 the leaks and you start to have the griping and, and

00:41:19.440 whatnot, and it can be a real problem.

00:41:22.240 So yeah, um, you know, from lofty heights, you know,

00:41:25.880 the bigger you are, the harder you fall.

00:41:27.700 And that's certainly true in politics.

00:41:29.500 You mentioned earlier that Carney hasn't really delivered, though, and I would agree.

00:41:35.000 He has clearly not learned one of the key lessons in Canadian politics, which is undersell and over-deliver.

00:41:44.820 And he's really overselling stuff and then not delivering, but he's at 48%.

00:41:50.420 This is not an outlier poll, and maybe somebody else is off by a bit,

00:41:56.580 But the fact that they have a substantial lead is not in dispute.

00:42:01.840 So what's driving this?

00:42:03.160 Is this all just Trump-related?

00:42:05.340 I think it's driving a lot of it.

00:42:07.220 But what do you see as putting him up at 48% when, you know, what have you done for me lately?

00:42:14.300 It's, you know, it's what he's not.

00:42:17.000 You know, he's not Justin Trudeau, so he benefited from that.

00:42:20.820 He's not Donald Trump, so he's benefited from that.

00:42:23.940 you know he's not a lunatic ideologue like we saw you know we saw it was like the star wars

00:42:31.300 bar scene at the winnipeg convention for the ndp so he's not he's not any the band was great

00:42:38.020 warren yeah no it's like the island of misfit toys with people don't have a laugh that's what

00:42:43.520 that was so he he benefits by not being other people but again you know if i were advising him

00:42:51.320 and I am not. It's like, well, what do you, what do you believe? What makes your heart go pitter

00:42:58.260 patter? What gets you up in the morning? And it, it can't be just to be against stuff or to not be

00:43:04.640 somebody else. It's like, who, who is Mark Carney? You know, the cliche is, you know, the riddle,

00:43:11.200 you know, wrapped in an enigma. I know who Polly Eve is. I know who Lewis is. I don't know who

00:43:16.740 Mark Carney is.

00:43:17.520 And that's a vulnerability because at a certain point, you know,

00:43:21.400 people say, well, you're not who I thought you were.

00:43:24.740 You're not what I voted for.

00:43:26.640 You're not doing the stuff you said you'd do.

00:43:29.340 And, um, you know, the, obviously that hasn't happened yet.

00:43:32.900 The pendulum hasn't swung back, but eventually, you know, the

00:43:36.240 pendulum swings back for them all.

00:43:38.280 And sooner or later, you know, you pay a price.

00:43:41.080 I think right now him not having to deal with Trump is working

00:43:44.600 for him and he continues to fight with trump um and when he does that it works for him but

00:43:51.020 you know if we don't get a deal then eventually more people start losing their jobs and folks

00:43:57.560 will be hurting i just don't know when that kicks in jenny um it was few times authenticity has been

00:44:04.740 mentioned and kim's taking some shots at mr poilev um his appearance on joe rogan i thought

00:44:13.140 he came across as very authentic.

00:44:16.240 I was like, ah, there's the guy I've known 20 years.

00:44:20.100 He was humble in that interview.

00:44:23.620 He was inquisitive.

00:44:26.320 He showed depth of knowledge on several different fronts,

00:44:30.000 including kettlebells.

00:44:32.620 Is that the peer that folks need to see to warm up to?

00:44:38.400 Or how do you see it?

00:44:39.580 I mean, you've known him 30 years?

00:44:43.140 Yeah, a long time. You're aging me, Brian. Yeah, well, what people are seeing is that is Pierre. He is very engaging. He is funny. He's extremely smart, very well read. And people are seeing that.

00:45:01.320 He's also ruthlessly message driven. And in terms of his discipline on that, all of those things are true. So I think that people are seeing that. He's a likable, he is a likable person. And I think that's just one piece of the pie.

00:45:18.780 I think that people are it's likable. And I believe the issue set is is going to is is in our favor, is in his favor, because he has predicted a lot of what has happened, because where we are right now is not because of factions fully in the U.S. or a war in Iran.

00:45:39.640 these are from 10 years, 11 years of liberal government policies. And I think, Brian, where

00:45:45.260 the rubber will hit the road, so to speak, for Carney, you were talking to Warren about this,

00:45:49.680 is, you know, in July is the Kuzma negotiations. That's when they have to be completed. We're

00:45:55.560 hearing, if you believe the media reports, that Mexico is 90 percent there in terms of their

00:46:00.360 negotiation. There is going to be a number of mortgages that become due for renewal over the

00:46:08.180 course of late summer and early fall where people's mortgages are going to increase a

00:46:14.140 tremendous amount. We're already seeing it. We're all hearing stories, personal stories of people

00:46:19.920 who are unable to pay their mortgages and rent is increasing in a number of places. And so I think

00:46:27.200 that is when things will start to change in terms of where this government is. And I'm not sure that

00:46:35.200 the liberals are prepared fully for that. I don't know why you say it's 10 years of bad policy.

00:46:42.320 I heard directly from the housing minister that house prices went up because of the war in Iran,

00:46:48.300 and the unemployment numbers went up because of the war in Iran. You know, they seem to try and 0.83

00:46:55.580 think that they can get away with things. Kim, is that the type of arrogance that Warren was

00:47:01.340 referencing that can be trouble for liberals oh absolutely and that and that is always the danger

00:47:07.140 right when you the only thing you stand for is winning uh that becomes the challenge and then

00:47:13.160 you'll say anything to keep that but Canadians voted for a banker in a good suit that's occasionally

00:47:19.860 a bit dorky uh but you know what there's always a moment where you stop liking your banker

00:47:27.640 And I'm not sure how Mr.

00:47:29.600 When the mortgage that Jenny was talking about comes up for renewal.

00:47:32.820 Usually about that time.

00:47:34.840 So what are Canadians looking for?

00:47:36.820 They are looking for that stability.

00:47:38.400 They are looking for things to be built.

00:47:40.540 They are looking for lack of rhetoric.

00:47:43.360 Look, we see this all the time.

00:47:45.160 An incredibly unpopular leader, in this case Mr. Trudeau, leaves and the new guy gets a free ride.

00:47:54.900 For all of, you know, Rob Ford, Mayor Rob Ford's challenges when he was in office, you know, the only thing John Tory had to do was not do crack, right?

00:48:06.360 Like there was way too much of a long leash that was given and a lack of accountability on things actually getting done to the point that the literal trains went off the TTC tracks in Scarborough and because of lack of state of good repair funding.

00:48:22.260 So it's analogous potentially for the Kearney folks, and in particular, some of those ministers who tend to be charitably gaffe-prone under the bright lights, and that is going to be the challenge for managing caucus and cabinet and this government for Mr. Kearney.

00:48:44.800 And it's going to be one thing when you can say, well, we're going to go to the polls soon, like, guys, keep it together, keep it in line.

00:48:50.860 It's a very different thing when we all will recognize that we are into a government for the next couple of years.

00:48:57.980 And then the danger for that for Mr. Carney, for Prime Minister Carney, is how do you manage that?

00:49:04.740 How do you manage the gaff-prone?

00:49:07.280 I'll ask this one last question and do a quick whip around before we wrap.

00:49:11.340 But you mentioned gaff-prone cabinet ministers.

00:49:15.180 One of the arguments for Carney looking to go to an early election had been that so he could get some of his own people in and recruit.

00:49:24.200 He has a very weak bench.

00:49:26.020 He has Justin Trudeau's team.

00:49:28.480 And, you know, Sir John A.'s old line, if you want me to have a better cabinet, send me better wood.

00:49:33.880 He's got rotting wood.

00:49:36.240 And so you've got someone like Lena Diab in immigration who can't answer basic questions. 0.99

00:49:42.920 Who do you replace her with? 1.00

00:49:44.060 is there a real potential for Mark Carney that what gets him in trouble maybe isn't himself

00:49:49.580 maybe it's not the arrogance you referred to Warren maybe it's uh not a lack of delivery

00:49:55.100 but a cabinet that I mean this is he's always described as a very demanding detailed guy

00:50:02.200 looks for results and he's got a cabinet that just filled with underachievers is that a problem

00:50:10.780 them that's going to get them in trouble, Warren? Maybe. I mean, the thing is, the law of nature is

00:50:18.640 you only have one prime minister, right? And you only have one leader. So you're going to protect

00:50:22.660 them. But cabinet ministers come and go. And, you know, you can toss them under the bus and they

00:50:27.620 disappear. The characteristic of this new era liberal government, so Carney as well as Trudeau,

00:50:35.340 is I think most people couldn't pick, you

00:50:37.960 know, five liberal cabinet ministers out

00:50:40.360 of a police lineup.

00:50:41.760 And, um, you know, that's very different

00:50:45.020 than how my boss Christian was, where we

00:50:47.680 had some big names.

00:50:49.140 We had some big players.

00:50:50.440 I think Carney has got, Pia Polly was

00:50:54.240 got some big names there.

00:50:56.560 Um, I, obviously the NDP situation is a

00:50:59.600 disaster for them in terms of Parnellan.

00:51:02.600 You gotta, I guess where it matters is,

00:51:04.840 looking like you can form a government. You look like serious people ready to do serious work.

00:51:11.580 And the problem is I think the libs have vested too much of their, um, their energy, their power,

00:51:20.400 whatever their aura in Carney. And if he stumbles, the whole shebang is in trouble. That was the

00:51:26.960 problem with Trudeau is there was really, there was no successor strategy. It was just him. And

00:51:33.500 when he started to, to, to crater, they had nowhere to go.

00:51:38.060 So, um, I think that, uh, it does matter.

00:51:44.000 Um, and I think that, uh, you know, the next few months are going to be interesting.

00:51:48.580 If Carney can't pull off this deal by July 1st with Trump, uh, I think people are going

00:51:53.720 to start to get cranky.

00:51:55.300 Jenny, uh, one of, uh, the conservative stars, Michelle Rempel-Garner, the notorious MRG, 0.53

00:52:02.040 as I call her. She loves going at that immigration minister. And, you know, she can be tough on her 0.57

00:52:08.540 sometimes, but even asking basic questions, Diab is out of her depths. Do gaffes like that 1.00

00:52:15.320 hurt the government, you know, from your point of view as someone that's been on both sides?

00:52:20.580 Well, I think they hurt the government, this particular government, especially because it

00:52:24.140 does throw Kearney off from his messages when the media, when the stories are coming out that

00:52:30.700 they have a minister that's not performing well. But at the end of the day, we're not seeing any

00:52:36.840 evidence that that matters electorally. I agree with Warren. I think there's a benefit of the

00:52:42.260 doubt right now. It's a benefit of the doubt until there isn't a benefit of the doubt. And it will

00:52:46.120 happen very quickly. If you believe the rumors up here in Ottawa, I'm here in Ottawa, you can tell

00:52:51.720 by the very lovely nondescript hotel room I'm sitting in, you're looking at a shuffle. He would

00:52:59.500 he would like to do a shuffle uh in the summer and i think you'll probably see some of the

00:53:03.760 one of the things that we're we're seeing from him uh is that he is a lot more uh politically

00:53:09.500 ruthlessly political uh political than what probably people thought that he would be for

00:53:14.600 for a bureaucrat slash banker uh and so i think that unlike a politicians in the past he is going

00:53:21.340 to and that's from both sides uh where he he is kind of more he's going to be less of a shuffling

00:53:26.960 shuffling pieces on the chessboard, so to speak, and removing people that are underperformers and

00:53:32.880 promoting people from the back benches that have proven to be better, as well as starting to elect

00:53:40.560 people that he has recruited himself. So, as we've seen with these by-elections, except for

00:53:45.880 Terrebonne, which they have the candidate of record, he is obviously taking a hand in who the

00:53:52.220 candidates, who the candidates are in those by-elections. Kim, is it a rake for him to step

00:53:57.680 on, do you think? It can be, but there were a lot of people that got elected or even came back

00:54:03.600 to run for Mark Kearney, right? He did actually get to choose some of these candidates. Somebody

00:54:08.720 was kept with from the previous administration. I think what we've seen has been Prime Minister

00:54:16.520 Kearney really trying to get control of his own understanding of not just the bureaucracy of

00:54:23.460 government and the overall machinery of government, but the political side, which he hadn't really

00:54:28.320 been exposed to as much as the governor of the Bank of Canada. There are some people who are in

00:54:34.300 that, you know, parliamentary secretary class and some of the other folks that have been kind of

00:54:40.620 working their way, understanding of things that they might not have had because they're rookie

00:54:47.920 members. You know, I look at somebody like a Jennifer McKelvey, who is the Ajax MP,

00:54:55.660 and she was the deputy mayor in Toronto and quite good. So I suspect as part of the proroguing,

00:55:03.420 whenever that does happen, we'll start to see some of those other moves taking away some of the

00:55:09.360 some of the more gaffe-prone cabinet ministers and moving others into that role. It's kind of

00:55:15.560 almost time. We've been in Parliament now in this government for around about a year,

00:55:21.900 and so we expect to see that shift happen as well. Will they perform any better under the

00:55:27.720 bright lights of question period? Who knows? But that's always the challenge of every new

00:55:34.620 government. I look to Jenny and Warren. Certainly, you guys have had that experience in the Harper

00:55:40.100 government and the Crutch End government. There were some folks who, oh boy, boy, did they step

00:55:44.580 on some rakes. Some were rakes. And how that also all unfolds. And that's just the normal part of

00:55:52.540 politics. It's part of why it's so dang fun when we watch it. Exactly. Well, thank you all for your

00:55:57.800 time today. It has been a blast. And we'll chat again soon. Thanks, guys. Thank you.

00:56:03.180 Full Comment is a post-media podcast.

00:56:05.560 My name's Brian Lilly, your host.

00:56:07.020 This episode was produced by Andre Proulx.

00:56:09.140 Theme music by Bryce Hall.

00:56:10.720 Kevin Libin is the executive producer.

00:56:13.140 Make sure that you hit share, put this up on social media,

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00:56:18.980 Until next time, I'm Brian Lilly.

00:56:23.620 There were so many missed opportunities to catch this

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00:56:29.940 A third of them we found literally in the phone book.

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00:56:36.060 They knew that nobody was effectively hunting them.

00:56:38.700 They knew they had escaped justice, that they were going to die in their beds.

00:56:43.120 When I give talks at law schools, it's that the charter ultimately is empowering a minority.

00:56:46.940 And it's empowering a minority that's a guild across the country.

00:56:49.940 And it's a fairly elite guild, and the guild is lawyers.

00:56:51.960 Families who were split by referendum and brothers and sisters

00:56:57.080 who never talked to each other for years after the referendum

00:56:59.940 because they were so angry at each other because of the emotions on both sides.

00:57:04.720 The reason he was assassinated was not because he was trying to put a satellite into space,

00:57:09.400 but because the gun that he was creating had other applications

00:57:15.480 that made him and the gun very dangerous.

00:57:19.780 It's finally here.

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00:59:10.700 You

Full Comment - April 06, 2026

Mark Carney is about to get hammered left and right by populism

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