Full Comment - More lockdowns are coming. Danielle Smith says she’s the resistance.

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00:01:58.720 Hello, I'm Anthony Fury.

00:02:05.820 Thanks so much for joining us for the latest episode of Full Comment.

00:02:08.700 If you haven't already, please consider subscribing.

00:02:11.700 A leadership race is underway in Alberta.

00:02:14.380 Not just to select the next leader of the United Conservative Party, but to select the next premier.

00:02:19.480 A lot of people are raising their hands for that candidacy.

00:02:22.300 Including our guest today, Danielle Smith.

00:02:24.900 Someone who is very well known in Alberta and has trod.

00:02:27.140 What I think is a very interesting, and what some people may say is a controversial, path in Alberta politics.

00:02:33.520 Smith worked in media and at think tanks earlier in her career.

00:02:36.420 Then became leader of the Wild Rose Party from 2009 to 2014.

00:02:40.500 Until, as leader, she crossed the floor to join the Alberta PC Party, then in government.

00:02:45.100 After the PCs were out and the NDP came to power, Smith left politics and became a well-known radio host.

00:02:50.580 But now she is re-entering the ring.

00:02:52.380 What was wrong with Premier Jason Kenney's leadership?

00:02:56.020 What needs to happen in Alberta next?

00:02:58.200 And what's Danielle Smith going to do about it? 1.00

00:03:00.500 She joins us now.

00:03:01.740 Welcome to the show, Danielle.

00:03:02.620 Thanks for stopping by.

00:03:04.020 Thanks so much for having me, Anthony.

00:03:05.360 Great to have you here.

00:03:06.260 And you know, I mentioned how you went on to do a radio show host gig, of course.

00:03:10.140 And I was pleased to join that program a few times.

00:03:11.860 But what I didn't mention in the intro, and one thing I think is very cool, is...

00:03:14.840 Tell me about the restaurant you were running.

00:03:18.100 It's sort of a dream job.

00:03:19.780 When I went through university, I put myself through by being a server.

00:03:24.360 First at a seafood restaurant called Cannery Row in Calgary, and then out in Vancouver at the Shark Club.

00:03:30.680 And so my husband had a similar path.

00:03:33.300 And so we always thought, gee, wouldn't it be fun to get back in that industry again?

00:03:36.680 So there was an old railway dining car in High River.

00:03:40.860 It was in a really sad state of repair.

00:03:43.120 It had been brought here in 1989.

00:03:46.440 It had initially been commissioned by CN Rail as a passenger car.

00:03:50.320 It was converted to a dining car to support Expo in Montreal.

00:03:54.080 Retired in 1989.

00:03:55.800 It was fixed up by some volunteers here.

00:03:57.700 But after 30 years of wear and tear, we were fearful.

00:04:01.760 If someone didn't step in and save it, that it was headed for the junkyards.

00:04:04.940 We stepped in, did a massive renovation, which is probably a topic for a whole other podcast.

00:04:10.780 And then we've been running it ever since.

00:04:12.680 So our specialty, if you ever happen to be in High River, is an eggs benedict.

00:04:18.280 We do build your own.

00:04:19.600 And I try eggs benedict everywhere I go.

00:04:22.360 And I can say, without a single tone of bias, that ours is the best.

00:04:26.160 So you'll have to come next time you're in Alberta.

00:04:28.680 I love it.

00:04:29.120 I love it.

00:04:29.500 And not to romanticize things too much, but I always, I talk about the story.

00:04:32.600 I write about too much in my columns on the Roman general, Cincinnatus, and how he was tending his farm as a private citizen.

00:04:37.480 And then they came by and they said, we need you to lead us in war.

00:04:41.060 And then he led them in war.

00:04:42.120 He won the war.

00:04:42.740 And then he said, okay, I'm going back to the farm.

00:04:44.800 So I like the idea of you're at the restaurant and then you go, and now I'm going to become premier.

00:04:49.260 I like that.

00:04:49.600 You know, it's funny you should say that because maybe I've been so influenced by Ayn Rand, who you, as you may know, I feel like we're kind of living the end times of Ayn Rand when all the entrepreneurs of the world go on strike because of onerous government regulation.

00:05:02.560 But there is one character, I think it's Hugh Acton, a professor who ends up going and retires and his strike was to retire from his professorship and then go in and make sandwiches at a diner.

00:05:15.740 So maybe that's what stuck with me.

00:05:18.100 I don't make the sandwiches when I'm there.

00:05:20.160 My husband normally has me do the dishes from time to time.

00:05:22.940 He'll let me come out front, but we've got a strict rule.

00:05:24.900 I'm not allowed to talk about politics.

00:05:26.220 So I do end up doing dish duty a lot.

00:05:28.280 Okay.

00:05:28.800 Now, normally my opening question, I have a leadership candidate or running for mayor or whatever.

00:05:32.100 I say, well, why are you running for office?

00:05:33.880 But now I've got to say, because you're saying we're having a great time talking about the restaurant and you're saying it was kind of a dream to do all this.

00:05:39.100 And you're telling these anecdotes and, you know, you're laughing about everything.

00:05:42.580 What on earth are you thinking?

00:05:44.140 You're going back into politics?

00:05:46.360 You know, I was at the front line of the ups and downs and the opening and closure and the restrictions and having frontline staff having to enforce them for the last couple of years.

00:05:57.700 And so I've, I've experienced firsthand what that uncertainty is like for a small business owner.

00:06:03.760 And I've seen as well, talk to tons of customers and people about the damage that the last two years have caused.

00:06:10.120 And I just feel like if there is going to be an outbreak of freedom anywhere in this country, it's going to be in Alberta.

00:06:17.140 I was gravely disappointed in the, in the last round of shutdowns and the demonization of those who've made the, a different medical choice.

00:06:25.680 Uh, they were called extremists and bigots and lunatics and there are none of that.

00:06:30.620 I mean, most of it is just moms and dads who are really worried about what we're creating for, uh, for their kids as a future and really worried about their kids losing ground in education, really worried about the mental health of their children.

00:06:43.560 And so I wanted to make sure I could be a voice for that group and try to properly represent them as we go into the next respiratory virus season.

00:06:53.080 Um, and then there's also the whole issue of autonomy.

00:06:55.500 I mean, Justin Trudeau has trampled all over the constitution.

00:06:59.120 It's like we have operated without one for the last two years, but in particular, the invasion of provincial jurisdiction and the micromanaging of every single thing we do.

00:07:07.480 It's enough is enough. If we don't reestablish a more constructive relationship with the rest of Canada, then it's, it's not, we're going to be headed for some kind of constitutional reckoning.

00:07:18.280 And I think we can be constructive in pushing Ottawa back in its lane.

00:07:22.660 And those are the two things that I, that I thought was really important for me to get back in the, in the, in the, in the race for the leadership.

00:07:28.960 Let's unpack both of those because I like you, I want to relitigate, uh, what happened the past two years.

00:07:33.760 I want commissions inquiries. Well, I don't know if you want those, but I want those.

00:07:36.460 And I'm saying that there were problems that we need to look at.

00:07:38.700 I know a lot of people though, say it's the summer. I want to party.

00:07:41.480 I want to forget about the last two years. And I totally get that.

00:07:43.640 Why people wouldn't want to, they want to leave it all behind them, but you, you dropped a little breadcrumb there.

00:07:49.500 The next respiratory virus season, we're hearing one or two hints, Teresa Tam, uh, here where I'm in Ontario,

00:07:55.220 we're hearing it from some health leaders that, oh yeah, stuff's going to come back.

00:08:00.640 People are gonna have to do stuff. I don't know what it is.

00:08:02.500 I don't know if they're saying lockdowns, mask mandates, something.

00:08:04.900 Are you saying that you want to get back into politics, not just to talk about what happened,

00:08:10.040 but you believe it may happen again and you want to stop it?

00:08:13.380 I'm certain that there will be voices that are calling for more restrictions and more lockdowns.

00:08:18.500 And we need to get a balanced view of what worked and what didn't.

00:08:22.660 Because I, I, it is my contention that lockdowns were not effective.

00:08:27.740 If you look at the most lockdown jurisdictions on the planet, Belgium, Italy, New York, Quebec,

00:08:34.140 they had some of the worst death rates.

00:08:36.540 I would put it to you that the, the provinces and regions that did the best,

00:08:41.220 did the best at protecting their most vulnerable citizens.

00:08:43.940 And those were the ones who were in long-term care with multiple pre-existing conditions.

00:08:47.860 And Alberta did a pretty good job of that. 1.00

00:08:49.600 So did British Columbia.

00:08:50.980 So if that's the key to making sure that we protect our citizens, that's what we need to do.

00:08:55.540 We need to focus on making sure that those who are most vulnerable get their regular shots

00:09:01.620 so that they have the ability to protect themselves with a new variant.

00:09:05.380 So that we have to make sure that we're testing to make sure that people with fever are not going

00:09:10.100 into long-term care facilities.

00:09:11.620 If people do get diagnosed and sick with COVID or influenza, that we have some early treatment

00:09:16.320 to prevent them from being hospitalized.

00:09:18.820 Those are the kinds of things that would be effective measures.

00:09:21.620 When we began this, we didn't know much about this virus, fair enough.

00:09:24.920 But by the time we got into July and August, that was when we should have taken a different,

00:09:29.920 a different tack.

00:09:30.760 And the fact that, that we have doctors, so disappointing doctors.

00:09:35.100 And chief medical officers that are still trying to perpetuate this idea that everyone

00:09:39.900 is equally at risk.

00:09:41.280 It's creating unnecessary fear and it's creating an unnecessary amount of public support for

00:09:46.680 measures that simply don't work and cause so much harm to our, to our young people.

00:09:51.480 We just can't let that happen again.

00:09:53.420 It's interesting that Alberta did go into subsequent lockdowns because I credit Alberta and the Alberta

00:09:57.660 Health Service with being, I think, the most open source with data.

00:10:02.120 Alberta, the writing I did on comorbidity work, although Statistics Canada verified the Alberta

00:10:07.720 figures did hold true nationally, but Alberta was the only one that released the info that

00:10:12.760 told us that 75% of persons who died of COVID were struggling with not one, not two, but three

00:10:19.020 or more underlying health conditions.

00:10:22.480 And things like obesity are not considered a health condition.

00:10:24.900 Some more serious things in there.

00:10:26.900 And it's like, wow, that really, you know, that could have helped us do a better response

00:10:31.200 to all of this.

00:10:32.000 And I wonder, I mean, can you explain to me what went awry in Alberta and the UCP and the

00:10:37.000 Kenney government such that that data maybe wasn't used in a more productive way?

00:10:41.640 I, I strongly suspect that there's a lot of pressure that comes from the federal level of government.

00:10:47.540 I don't know that we've ever, uh, we've ever admitted that, but when I, you, you, you don't

00:10:52.540 see health jurisdictions locking, walking in lockstep so, uh, stridently as we did during

00:10:59.280 this, if it's not being directed from the office of the, uh, of the public health officer at

00:11:04.200 the federal level.

00:11:04.940 And I think that that's really what set the tone.

00:11:07.060 I want to understand.

00:11:07.880 So Tam calling Dina Hinshaw or Trudeau calling Kenney or.

00:11:11.640 I think they coordinate.

00:11:12.500 No, I think it would have been through the, through, through Teresa Tam and the public

00:11:16.460 health office, um, because the, it, it seems to me, because I was trying to understand where

00:11:22.120 the clampdown on doctors who wanted to treat their patients came from.

00:11:26.000 And it does seem like there was some kind of safety protocol that was issued by the public

00:11:30.420 health agency that then ended up spreading out through the public health agencies provincially

00:11:34.800 and ended up dictating how our colleges started treating our frontline doctors and nurses and

00:11:39.320 other health professionals.

00:11:40.200 So this is part of the reason why we need to establish an Alberta sovereignty act is the

00:11:45.500 first thing that I said I would do if I get elected, because we need to chart our own course.

00:11:50.020 Healthcare is a provincial level of responsibility.

00:11:53.140 We have the right to be able to determine the best healthcare protocols and practices for our

00:11:57.920 citizens.

00:11:58.720 And I don't feel that the, uh, the federal government made the right balance on this.

00:12:03.160 I want to make sure that if Dr. Teresa Tam is saying that three jabs are going to be 0.87

00:12:08.800 mandatory that we have the opportunity to say, actually, no, we're not going to abide by that.

00:12:15.100 If she says that, uh, vaccination for children is going to be mandatory, we're going to say,

00:12:19.760 no, we don't believe that we're going to do that.

00:12:22.260 If she wants to start asking us to quarantine healthy citizens, we're going to say, no, we're not 0.79

00:12:27.480 going to do that either.

00:12:28.340 We don't, I don't want Alberta to be the enforcement arm of, um, a federal agency.

00:12:33.940 That's kind of out of touch with, uh, the, um, the most recent data and out of touch with what it

00:12:38.600 is that is, that is, that is desired in our province.

00:12:41.080 So those are, and I'm, I don't think that that's an idle concern that the federal government did not

00:12:47.000 cancel their, um, their travel restrictions.

00:12:50.640 They suspended them.

00:12:51.960 There's a reason that language is being used already.

00:12:55.160 We've stopped doing COVID updates and we've said that we're going to have an integrated approach to

00:12:59.680 reporting on influenza and Corona viruses, the same way that we did the flu watch, which is your

00:13:05.200 reset every year in, in August, you watch as it rises and as it falls and you give, uh, give

00:13:10.080 reporting of the case numbers.

00:13:11.760 So we're going to start doing that, but already I'm hearing the same usual suspects in the medical

00:13:16.580 health profession saying, oh my goodness, we've got to be prepared for more lockdowns.

00:13:20.440 So there, there is obviously some kind of pressure coming.

00:13:23.500 I suspect it's, it's coming through the, uh, the federal, uh, health agency and we just want to make

00:13:29.140 sure that we assert for our burdens that we're going to put our liberties first.

00:13:32.000 We're going to put the health and mental health of our, of our young people first.

00:13:35.840 We're going to make sure that we don't lock down and close down hospitals so that we can ensure

00:13:41.880 we're diagnosing patients with cancer, making sure that we're managing chronic conditions.

00:13:45.980 There is so much legacy problem we are going to have going forward and dealing with ongoing

00:13:51.020 health issues because we didn't have the right balance.

00:13:53.420 And we're not going to exacerbate that by making the same mistakes again, this time around.

00:13:57.400 We'll be back with more with Daniel Smith in just a moment.

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00:14:15.980 Daniel, you mentioned that Alberta sovereignty act.

00:14:21.740 That'll be one of the first things that you do.

00:14:24.500 I know you're talking about it when it comes to not enforcing say federally required mandates

00:14:29.400 or quarantines.

00:14:30.740 I know you also mentioned things like the carbon tax, but there have already been court

00:14:34.800 challenges around that and Alberta and Ontario and Saskatchewan lost those court challenges.

00:14:40.900 What is the workability of an Alberta sovereignty act?

00:14:43.900 How do you actually go about and say to the feds, uh-uh, not doing it?

00:14:48.780 I haven't figured out how we get around the carbon tax yet, but I'm working on it.

00:14:53.440 But here's where I think it is more practical is if you look at the court decision or opinion

00:15:00.680 that came out of the Court of Appeal a few weeks ago on C-69.

00:15:04.660 It's been called the No More Pipelines Bill.

00:15:06.300 But what it really is, is the No More Build Anything in the natural resource sector anywhere

00:15:11.140 in Alberta or the rest of the country without federal approval bill.

00:15:14.020 And that's not how our constitution was designed.

00:15:16.600 That's not what the Natural Resources Transfer Act was about.

00:15:19.060 It's not what Peter Lougheed fought for when he got our exclusive right to develop our resources

00:15:24.120 entrenched in the constitution, section 92a.

00:15:26.920 What it's supposed to mean, the way our country's supposed to work, how our founders originally

00:15:31.160 intended it, is that projects that are within provincial boundaries get provincial oversight

00:15:36.360 and provincial approval.

00:15:37.700 And the federal government has interfered every single step of the way.

00:15:41.640 When you look at how different Quebec is treated, as I've often said, I don't think Quebec is

00:15:45.740 sitting back cowering and worried the federal government is going to come in and kibosh their projects.

00:15:51.740 It's vice versa.

00:15:52.320 The federal government's sitting there worrying and cowering about Quebec.

00:15:54.880 Completely.

00:15:56.380 And I can give a few examples.

00:15:58.860 So in the last number of years, for instance, asbestos was one of the deadly products that

00:16:05.860 internationally there was a ban on export.

00:16:10.000 Quebec was allowed to continue developing and mining asbestos for decades after that.

00:16:15.960 There was a massive cement plant that was approved that has more emissions than Energy East would

00:16:21.200 have, more emissions than Suncor would have, and bypassed the usual environmental approvals.

00:16:27.240 Montreal was dumping 2 billion gallons of raw sewage into the St. Lawrence River.

00:16:32.600 And everyone went, oh, well, whatever.

00:16:34.700 Meanwhile, here in Alberta, we've got Suncor that has promised to reach a net zero target by 2050.

00:16:41.460 And Environment Minister Stephen Gobeau says, I don't think I'm going to give you approval to expand that.

00:16:45.860 Tech Frontier Mine.

00:16:47.200 They also wanted to develop their mining operation.

00:16:49.780 They canceled it because of federal interference.

00:16:52.360 I met with the nuclear representatives because there's the first rollout of small modular nuclear

00:16:57.720 reactors are likely to be in our oil sands here, which would allow us to develop our oil sands with

00:17:03.600 lower emissions.

00:17:04.740 They said, well, we probably won't be able to get approval until sometime in the 2030s because of this

00:17:09.980 new bill, Bill C-69, which prevents us from making decisions to adopt small modular reactors if

00:17:16.840 they're more than 200 megawatts in power and heat being generated.

00:17:20.880 When I look at this, I'm shaking my head thinking we are in a responsible environmental jurisdiction.

00:17:26.840 We have our companies who want to be at the forefront of that.

00:17:29.120 This is what the federal government says is a priority.

00:17:32.260 They're constantly talking about a climate emergency, and yet they're standing in our

00:17:36.040 way every step of the way in a way they absolutely would not do in Quebec.

00:17:40.360 So we just want to be treated the same way as Quebec.

00:17:42.560 We want to be treated the way the Constitution has been written and the way our founders intended

00:17:46.800 it.

00:17:47.200 And if they're not going to leave us alone, we're just going to push them back in their lane 0.99

00:17:51.400 and tell them to stay there.

00:17:52.560 And as I've said, we won't have a constitutional crisis if they just give us the respect that we

00:17:57.520 deserve.

00:17:58.420 And so we're going to, but to change the relationship, we're the ones who have to change.

00:18:02.980 We're the ones who have to draw the line in the sand because it's not acceptable anymore.

00:18:06.400 And that's what I'm hearing from Albertans.

00:18:08.060 So that's why we need to act and we need to act quickly.

00:18:11.980 I want to talk about 2014, you leaving the Wild Rose Party as leader crossing the floor,

00:18:16.720 joining the PCs.

00:18:17.420 It was eight years ago, but I think politics is a world where people like to hold a lot of grudges.

00:18:22.020 And I know back then things people said, and some people still saying them now.

00:18:25.380 Daniel Smith was a turncoat. 0.93

00:18:26.760 The other T word, she was a traitor. 0.95

00:18:29.020 Daniel Smith practically handed the win to Rachel Notley and the NDP because of doing that.

00:18:33.560 What do you say to the voices who have continued to say that?

00:18:38.580 There's no question that it was probably the worst political decision any politician's ever

00:18:44.860 made.

00:18:45.200 And we were both punished for it.

00:18:47.340 I didn't win my nomination.

00:18:49.360 And Jim Prentice ended up losing the election.

00:18:51.880 I think both of us had come.

00:18:54.540 I mean, he didn't cause the problems in Alberta.

00:18:56.680 He just wanted to step in and fix them.

00:18:58.300 And I felt the same way.

00:18:59.820 And so I think we were premature in having a conversation about unity and how to work together.

00:19:05.600 And we certainly went about doing it the wrong way.

00:19:08.380 And both of us received the punishment for that, and rightly so. 0.52

00:19:13.320 But I think when I look at where we're at now, I think we now see that the NDP are strong.

00:19:19.360 They're unified.

00:19:20.660 They are a single progressive voice.

00:19:22.460 So there isn't a vote split.

00:19:24.620 And if we split on the right, then we're going to end up seeing another Rachel Notley government.

00:19:30.100 So when I was looking at the lay of the land, we were seeing so many different parties split

00:19:33.860 off because of the issues I was talking about here.

00:19:36.460 We have Paul Himans gone back to the Wild Rose Independence Party.

00:19:39.940 We had two MLAs who were talking about starting their own parties after they got kicked out of

00:19:44.180 the caucus.

00:19:45.160 We have a Buffalo project and a Buffalo party that got all of the signatures to run candidates.

00:19:50.760 There's a group called the Alberta Prosperity Project that is thinking of running candidates

00:19:55.060 for independence.

00:19:56.560 And when I looked at the lay of that land, I thought, my goodness, if we do not address

00:20:00.800 autonomy, address issues of liberty, we're going to see this conservative libertarian movement

00:20:06.780 split apart.

00:20:08.100 And it will mean that Rachel Notley will win next time.

00:20:10.740 So I thought I could be an agent of unity, having been somebody who tried to bring unity to

00:20:16.860 the party and failed.

00:20:17.720 I was cheering Jason Kenney and Brian Jean along as they did it the right way.

00:20:22.260 And I don't want to see this party split apart.

00:20:24.940 I think it's part of the reason Brian Jean jumped back in again.

00:20:27.500 He also doesn't want to see, after all the hard work he put in, this party split apart.

00:20:32.220 So I hope people see that I'm trying to be constructive on this.

00:20:36.880 I didn't run away when I had my political failure.

00:20:40.300 I went on the air and took my lumps.

00:20:42.380 Some days were pretty rough in those first three months.

00:20:44.640 I can tell you that, but I think people understand that I've always put Alberta first and I'm

00:20:49.140 going to continue to have a voice advocating for good policy one way or the other.

00:20:53.160 And this just seems like the best time for me to make my voice heard and to try to be

00:20:57.460 that constructive leader who can bring this party together, but also change the relationship

00:21:02.860 with the rest of the country.

00:21:03.860 As Wild Rose leader, you definitely described yourself as libertarian, big free speech advocate,

00:21:09.040 but there were also people in the party who were more social conservative.

00:21:12.120 I know you've said the fit wasn't always that great.

00:21:15.580 I always valued your commitment to free speech.

00:21:17.800 I think people roll their eyes when candidates get fired for, oh, here's something they put

00:21:22.700 on Facebook when they were 14. 0.98

00:21:24.060 It's like, oh my God, we just had an election in Ontario and some of the stuff was just ridiculous. 0.87

00:21:27.820 It's like, really? 0.97

00:21:28.360 Who cares?

00:21:28.760 This is why no one runs for office.

00:21:30.100 You had a few incidents back during, well, it's 10 years ago now, that some people would

00:21:35.240 say is one of the reasons why you did not become premier back then in 2012 when you guys

00:21:39.820 were really high in the polls with the Wild Rose, people who were saying some homophobic

00:21:44.420 things, some candidates, very sort of aggressive social remarks.

00:21:48.400 And you said, look, I'm not in the business of, you know, these aren't my views.

00:21:51.480 It's not the party's views, but I'm not axing people for these comments.

00:21:54.880 And then later you said, maybe we should reevaluate that policy.

00:21:57.820 Now, when we talk about cancel culture more and more now, I am not defending or delving 0.96

00:22:02.780 into the deep of what these candidates even said.

00:22:05.120 How do you think about those issues now?

00:22:07.180 How would you confront those sorts of issues as UCP leader?

00:22:11.640 It's interesting.

00:22:12.460 There's a lot of learning that I think a lot of conservative parties have had based on our

00:22:17.240 loss in 2012 and myself also.

00:22:20.260 And I've taken a cue from how other leaders subsequently have dealt with controversial candidates.

00:22:26.240 I mean, I believe in free speech, free expression, free advocacy.

00:22:31.200 I don't believe that cancel culture is, it's not sustainable.

00:22:36.440 It's not good for society to have people feel like their voice can't be heard because then

00:22:40.860 it just pushes voices to the fringes and we become more polarized.

00:22:43.700 So I want to do what I can to reverse that so we can have a more constructive conversation

00:22:48.740 about a whole range of issues.

00:22:50.020 Not sustainable is a good way to put it.

00:22:50.820 Because soon there's going to be no one left to look through all of our Facebook posts.

00:22:54.900 Or we'll all be going to the podcast that we agree with and not hearing anything from

00:22:59.320 an alternative perspective.

00:23:00.620 And I don't think that's unifying.

00:23:01.660 But here's what I would observe as well.

00:23:04.120 All that being said, politics is a team sport and we're not like America.

00:23:09.240 In America, you can be a leader and run independently and it doesn't matter who's running with you

00:23:13.600 because you can get elected without the team being behind you.

00:23:16.600 And so that's why I think that there's a lot more tolerance for a range of views in the U.S.

00:23:21.800 But in Canada, one person can tear down the entire team and prevent you from being able to win.

00:23:27.920 So I think the balance that we saw, and I think it was Erin O'Toole who did this as well as Jason

00:23:34.920 Kenney, is that if you have a candidate who's controversial or being destructive, you have

00:23:42.340 to put it to the whole team.

00:23:43.700 Do you want this person to sit with you?

00:23:45.260 So if I could do it over again and that candidate made the statements they did, I probably would

00:23:50.680 call an emergency meeting of our candidates and just hear everybody out and then have a vote.

00:23:55.780 If this person stays on the ballot and wins, will they sit with caucus?

00:24:00.140 Yes or no?

00:24:00.980 Because I think in that situation, if I had been more responsive and allowed my candidates

00:24:05.940 and my team to weigh in, I suspect that that's how it would have been resolved.

00:24:09.460 And so I think that that's the right balance because I do want to make sure that the candidates

00:24:13.680 that get elected, and you don't want to interfere too much as a leader in what's going on at

00:24:18.340 the local constituency association.

00:24:20.380 But I think the balance is make sure you send us a good candidate that's going to be a

00:24:23.780 good member of the team, otherwise the team is not going to be able to support them.

00:24:27.540 That's, I think, probably the way you try to deal with those issues.

00:24:31.180 Not everybody's a great candidate for office, and I think people have to be a little self-reflective.

00:24:36.420 If they feel so stridently about one or two issues, maybe advocacy is their place.

00:24:41.180 Maybe having a podcast is their place.

00:24:43.520 But you have to be able to ensure that once you get elected, you're not going to tear the

00:24:47.140 team down and you're going to represent all your constituents.

00:24:49.260 I think that's maybe the nuance that has happened over the last 10 years, is I've watched other

00:24:53.720 leaders deal with these issues in a different way.

00:24:56.960 Danielle, you referenced some emerging splinter groups in Alberta, or at least splinter sentiments

00:25:01.600 when it comes to politics.

00:25:03.220 So perhaps the party name United Conservative Party is, at least in the interim, a bit of a

00:25:07.760 misnomer.

00:25:08.880 What is the UCP?

00:25:10.540 What is the party that you are now vying to lead?

00:25:14.280 You know, it's funny, because Jason Kenney, I'd known for a very long time, and I thought

00:25:19.820 he was going to be a three-term premier, as beloved as Ralph Klein, and that I was going

00:25:24.060 to stay on radio for 10 years.

00:25:25.920 And he had such a good start.

00:25:27.460 His first year was really good.

00:25:29.760 And the work that he has done on representing Alberta and our energy sector, not only to the

00:25:35.960 rest of the country, but also internationally, has been stellar.

00:25:39.160 He's done a terrific job of attracting new investment into Alberta.

00:25:42.640 And in embracing this net zero future, with not only the oil sands project saying they're

00:25:48.400 going to be net zero, but we also have a petrochemical plant, Dow Chemical, that's going

00:25:52.400 to be net zero.

00:25:53.200 We've got a hydrogen economy building up with air products that's going to be net zero. 0.64

00:25:57.240 We've got major international investment coming in on the tech sector.

00:26:00.960 So all of that I want to preserve and celebrate.

00:26:03.320 I want to make sure that people understand that the core of what the UCP was about still

00:26:08.640 has a great deal of support.

00:26:10.040 But the splinters that happened occurred because of the approach on COVID.

00:26:14.580 And I think the premier was doing a reasonably good job up until this last round.

00:26:18.780 He had said we weren't going to have vaccine mandates, vaccine passports, forced vaccination.

00:26:24.020 And in point of fact, we did.

00:26:25.440 We had vaccine mandates, vaccine passports.

00:26:28.040 People were getting fired from their public sector jobs for not being vaccinated.

00:26:31.680 And I think that was a fundamental breaking point with a portion of the membership, which

00:26:35.640 is why I've committed we won't do that again.

00:26:37.280 And then the other issue was we got a very clear mandate from the people that they wanted

00:26:42.280 to end equalization.

00:26:44.540 And unfortunately, the premier, maybe because of the circumstances he was in having to work

00:26:48.540 collaboratively with the federal government, he didn't act on that.

00:26:52.440 And so I think that was the other reason why people said, well, gee, we've done, we've been

00:26:55.840 talking about this for 20 years.

00:26:57.440 You just got a mandate from the people in a referendum.

00:27:00.760 You just did a broad-based consultation on a fair deal, and these are the things we want

00:27:06.040 you to act on.

00:27:06.860 So I would say that as we start acting on those, we'll bring that part of the coalition

00:27:11.280 back in.

00:27:11.980 So I'm not as concerned about the long-term prospects for unity.

00:27:16.320 And I think it's more important than ever because the progressive vote under Rachel Notley

00:27:21.320 and the NDP is very strong.

00:27:22.820 And we can't take that for granted.

00:27:24.280 We have to stay united.

00:27:25.300 And so I think that a leadership process can be very, very healthy that way.

00:27:29.980 We've got a broad spectrum of candidates running.

00:27:32.640 I have a great admiration for everyone who's in the race.

00:27:35.680 I hope it can be a little more constructive than what we're seeing at the federal level,

00:27:39.120 which is getting a little bit nasty between candidates.

00:27:42.600 But if we can do all of that, I have no doubt that the party will be unified at the end of

00:27:46.840 the process.

00:27:47.880 Danielle, I was dismayed when I learned that you were leaving your radio program back a year

00:27:51.400 and a half ago, January 2021.

00:27:53.680 I thought you were great on air.

00:27:54.880 And I was so pleased that you were standing up against the COVID crazies.

00:27:59.220 You explained your rationale in a guest op-ed at nationalpost.com.

00:28:02.540 I'm leaving Twitter and radio because I've had enough of the mob.

00:28:06.540 Tell me a bit about that and then also reconcile it with the fact that I think you're jumping

00:28:12.880 two feet first into the mob again right now.

00:28:15.660 A couple of things is I've noticed what's been so encouraging over the last year and a half

00:28:22.440 since I've left radio has been to see all of the robust conversation happening in the

00:28:27.800 alternative media.

00:28:29.120 It's funny.

00:28:29.480 I used to take the view when I was on mainstream media was, okay, I'll watch the alternative

00:28:34.620 and if something jumps over into the mainstream, I'll know that that's been validated and so

00:28:39.120 I'll be able to report on that.

00:28:40.660 I'm actually finding the reverse now.

00:28:42.100 I'm finding that I read something in the mainstream media and I go to the alternative media to

00:28:47.560 see if it's being reported the same way.

00:28:49.580 So I think there's been a fundamental shift.

00:28:51.860 I always felt like the mainstream media was supposed to be that voice of being fair and

00:28:57.700 accurate and balanced.

00:28:59.960 And sadly, they weren't doing that in the last couple of years.

00:29:03.020 So the mob that I'm referring to goes to, it's funny because you probably remember this

00:29:08.280 too.

00:29:08.640 I got involved in newspapers back in the 90s and we always had a letters page and the

00:29:15.660 letters were always very heavily curated and they were edited.

00:29:19.880 And so we had the general public say their piece, but it wasn't destructive.

00:29:24.680 Same thing with Broadcast Standards Council.

00:29:27.740 Like you had to write a letter if you were angry at something you saw in the air and it would

00:29:31.560 be dealt with that way.

00:29:32.540 Now with a print of a button, you can have thousands of people on Twitter get outraged

00:29:37.920 about one sentence, one radio host says in one program, and it can result in the loss

00:29:43.380 of their reputation and the loss of their career.

00:29:45.960 You've got also a lot of, I think there's a lot of skittishness on the part of advertisers

00:29:51.160 that they're terrified that they're going to have boycott campaigns against them.

00:29:55.380 And so any slight whiff of controversy and they're calling the bosses saying you got to

00:30:00.260 bring that host in. 0.70

00:30:01.280 And that's not what talk radio is supposed to be and it's not what the opinion pages

00:30:05.440 of newspapers are supposed to be.

00:30:06.940 So I think the only place we're actually getting the robust debate that we truly need is in

00:30:12.200 some of those alternative sources.

00:30:14.100 Podcasts like yours, Western Standard, Rebel Media and True North on the right, Canada Lens

00:30:20.080 and the TIE and the Observer on the left.

00:30:22.020 And I'm hoping that that creates the environment that I always felt the media should do.

00:30:27.740 The media is such an important part of our democracy.

00:30:31.520 We call them the fourth estate for a reason.

00:30:34.120 They're not supposed to just be a propaganda arm of government.

00:30:37.440 They're really supposed to be holding our institutions to account.

00:30:40.620 And I had a bit of a despair a year and a half ago that that wasn't happening.

00:30:45.360 Feel far much more enthusiasm towards the broader view of media these days because I'm seeing

00:30:51.860 all of those alternative voices.

00:30:53.540 And it gives me hope that we're actually going to return to some kind of fairness and

00:30:57.080 accuracy and balance.

00:30:58.260 It was nice Netflix didn't cancel those comedy specials.

00:31:00.660 You know, the recent ones that they were angry about?

00:31:02.860 I thought that was a good victory.

00:31:04.740 That to me demonstrates.

00:31:06.260 I mean, it's hard because I understand, especially in the cultural institutions, that they are very

00:31:10.580 progressive and very woke.

00:31:11.960 But I read the statement that Netflix said, said, look, like we're in the entertainment business.

00:31:17.100 And if you're not able to watch something without having a meltdown, maybe this isn't the place

00:31:22.000 for you.

00:31:22.640 So that shows a lot of leadership.

00:31:24.820 And I do hope that others take that to heart, that you don't have to agree with everything

00:31:29.420 you hear.

00:31:30.900 But part of our practice in our Western liberal democracies is that we do allow that robust

00:31:36.220 exchange of ideas.

00:31:37.080 It's the only way we learn.

00:31:38.360 It's the only way we find common ground.

00:31:40.260 And it's the only way that I think we end up eliminating the polarization we have in society.

00:31:44.960 And yet, Danielle, the things you're saying in terms of absolute defiance against people

00:31:50.140 pushing for COVID stuff that you anticipate coming up in respiratory virus season, Alberta

00:31:55.560 Sovereignty Act, which as long as Trudeau is still prime minister, there's going to be

00:31:59.080 pushback to that.

00:32:00.600 That is going to create quite a maelstrom.

00:32:04.240 How will you fight that battle, those battles?

00:32:07.740 As you know, I know how to take a punch and I know how to give a punch.

00:32:10.840 And the way I'm looking at this now is our biggest battle in Alberta to protect my people

00:32:15.660 and to protect our ability to generate wealth and be prosperous and to be the place that

00:32:20.560 we are is to make sure that Ottawa stays out of our lane, stays in its own areas of

00:32:26.900 jurisdiction.

00:32:27.580 So I am quite happy to have that fight.

00:32:29.960 I think it's the right fight to have.

00:32:31.760 And it doesn't need to be combative.

00:32:35.700 It really doesn't.

00:32:36.600 I mean, if they gave us the same respect and treatment as Quebec, I think we would have 0.99

00:32:40.140 a perfectly great relationship.

00:32:42.060 But I feel like they are not seeing everything that we're doing in Alberta.

00:32:45.620 I think there's an ideology that is represented among people like Stephen Galbault, the environment

00:32:53.800 minister, who is so extreme in his environmental views.

00:32:57.840 We've been told this story for the last 10 years that the entire planet was going to switch

00:33:02.700 over to wind and solar and battery power.

00:33:05.140 I think that got blown under the water with Michael Moore's documentary, Planet of the

00:33:09.260 Humans and the Big Green Lies, which is another documentary where it became quite clear that

00:33:15.900 wind and solar use a lot of fossil fuels in their development.

00:33:19.520 Steel uses fossil fuels.

00:33:21.400 Cement uses fossil fuels.

00:33:22.900 The transportation to get all of those wind turbines to site use fossil fuels.

00:33:27.180 The crystalline silicon uses coal to be able to develop the solar panels.

00:33:31.400 So we have to have a broad perspective on what the environmental impact is of each of the

00:33:38.540 different types of energy that we use.

00:33:40.580 And Alberta is on this track of being net zero in all those products.

00:33:44.040 Net zero in steel, net zero in cement, net zero in transportation fuels as we switch to

00:33:48.240 hydrogen.

00:33:49.200 Net zero by being able to capture and bury CO2 from our various development of hydrocarbons.

00:33:56.820 There's the ability for us to develop bitumen to asphalt, which we're all going to need because

00:34:01.920 we're all going to have to have roads to drive on, whether we're driving a combustion engine

00:34:06.280 vehicle or a net zero vehicle.

00:34:08.440 We have 6,000 different construction materials and products that are made out of our conventional

00:34:13.920 hydrocarbon fuels.

00:34:15.320 So there is a different way to achieve the same ends.

00:34:17.780 And that's what I've been promoting, is that we can be in sync on meeting our international

00:34:23.300 commitments, but the way we meet them in Alberta is going to be very different than the way

00:34:27.720 we meet them in Quebec, which has the benefit of cheap hydropower that they get from a long

00:34:31.380 term deal they signed on Churchill Falls.

00:34:33.600 So that's the perspective that I think Ottawa is missing.

00:34:36.580 And if they need someone to educate them directly, I'm just the person to do it.

00:34:40.420 I've been talking about this now for six or seven years, and I'm prepared to have that

00:34:44.040 fight.

00:34:44.900 Danielle, if you don't win the leadership, are you still going to run as an MLA regardless?

00:34:48.680 Yes, I actually got asked if I would run locally as an MLA.

00:34:53.720 That's where I began.

00:34:55.080 And then when I launched, I let people know that if the bigger job became open, I would

00:34:59.600 run for that as well.

00:35:01.040 So I intend to run either way.

00:35:04.520 And as I said, I have great respect for the people who have put their name forward.

00:35:07.660 I'd be happy serving under any of them.

00:35:09.980 Danielle Smith, thanks so much for stopping by.

00:35:12.000 My pleasure.

00:35:12.820 All the best.

00:35:14.120 Full Comment is a post-media podcast.

00:35:16.380 I'm Anthony Fury.

00:35:17.120 This episode was produced by Andre Proulx, with theme music by Bryce Hall.

00:35:21.520 Kevin Libin is the executive producer.

00:35:24.000 You can subscribe to Full Comment on Apple Podcasts, Google, Spotify, and Amazon Music.

00:35:28.960 You can listen through the app or your Alexa-enabled devices.

00:35:31.840 You can help us by giving us a rating or a review, and by telling your friends about us.

00:35:35.660 Thanks for listening.

Full Comment - June 27, 2022

More lockdowns are coming. Danielle Smith says she’s the resistance.

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