Offering euthanasia to struggling veterans is government policy
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Summary
The issue of medical assistance in dying has been in the news lately for all the wrong reasons. This week, we talk to Mark Menke, host of the podcast Operation Tango Romeo, about what it means and why it should be expanded to younger age groups, including infants.
Transcript
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It's been in the news, in the headlines lately, for all the wrong reasons.
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Hello, I'm Brian Lilly, guest host of Full Comment this week.
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And we're going to delve into the issue of medical assistance in dying from a very specific
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But before we get to that, let's just set the table.
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It first became legal in Canada to seek help in dying from a medical professional in 2016.
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This was prompted by a Supreme Court decision telling the federal government to change the
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Now, MPs are looking at expanding it to include people dealing with mental illness.
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There's also been calls from some medical professionals to say medical assistance in
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dying should be expanded to younger age groups, including even infants, according to some.
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But that's not what has the conversation going in Canada right now.
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The conversation is being driven primarily around the issue of veterans.
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Veterans seeking assistance for a variety of medical or psychological issues, being offered
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the chance to seek medical assistance in dying instead of getting the help they need.
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It's prompted a review at Veterans Affairs Canada, and it has people wondering, where have
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One of the people who has been at the forefront of this is Mark Menke.
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He is the host of a podcast called Operation Tango Romeo.
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So I'll let Mark explain it now as he joins me.
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Mark, Operation Tango Romeo, explain what that means, the TR.
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The TR in Tango Romeo stands for trauma recovery.
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So how this started was I was a peer support facilitator for a year or two, and we had people
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driving for two, three hours every other week to be part of that group.
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And I thought, well, geez, it must be a lot of value here for people to be put in that
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kind of effort, so I wanted to scale it, and that's what I did, and now it's available
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around the world instead of just our little group.
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So that's how it started as for peer support, and then it became an aggregate for healing
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So I go and find everybody that I can, every resource that I possibly can, bring them to
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the show and give them a platform so that people can shop from like a Chinese menu of services.
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And now, through no planning of my own, it's become an advocacy project as well.
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Because of my center point in the veteran community, people just keep coming to me and
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Sometimes I can help, sometimes I can't, but I always try, and if I can't, I redirect them.
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But a fellow came to me with audio recordings that he made of his phone calls with Veterans
00:04:07.980
Affairs Canada, and these recordings, these two recordings that he gave me, were the apology
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calls from Veterans Affairs Canada apologizing for offering MAID.
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And since that has come across my desk, I haven't stopped with trying to understand this myself,
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Right up until the last week, when Christine Gauthier had testified in front of committee
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there at the Standing Committee of Veterans Affairs.
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And it's a far worse problem than I ever would have imagined when I was first exposed
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Yeah, and I want to ask you about that, because it's, you know, been portrayed as perhaps just
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one Veterans Affairs agent, perhaps just a few people.
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Well, as you've been discussing this, and as you say, people come to you, you've been
00:05:01.880
finding out that this has been going on longer than we've been led to believe.
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So let's start with when the first veteran came out.
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So when the first veteran came out and was broken by Global News, he had come to me weeks
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prior and told me to sit on it and not let it out of the bag.
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And that individual remains anonymous, correct?
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There's three of them that I've been working with that are staying anonymous, which, what
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It would be much more powerful if they decided to use their voice.
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He did a 10-minute testimonial on my show, but I just spoke with him yesterday, and he
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won't come forward to even testify at the committee in an anonymous fashion.
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So the story from Veterans Affairs Canada was that there's just one veteran, and they were
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Our investigation, even though we're not done it yet, is absolutely conclusive.
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Well, that was quickly disproven as others started coming forward.
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Okay, okay, so it's not just one veteran anymore, but it's only one's veteran service
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My count is up to five veteran service agents, and it's really simple math.
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The first person that came forward was out of Vancouver, and veteran service agents are
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So it was a Vancouver office person that dealt with him because he lives in BC.
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Brian lives in Ontario, so he had an Ontario, somebody that covers the Ontario area.
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Christine Gauthier is in Quebec, so she has people that cover Quebec.
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And she had two separate veteran service agents offer her maid, one male, one female.
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So if you're counting the same as I am, that's four veteran service agents right there.
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I'm working on also one in Alberta who had a male veteran service agent offer her maid.
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And I am really trying to get her to come forward.
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So my personal account, from my personal knowledge of the work that I've been doing, is five veteran
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Are these any of these people who expressed an interest in maid?
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We have accepted as a society that this is a viable option, a legal option.
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But to your knowledge, did any of them say, you know what, I think I'd like to consider
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Or were they asking for either medical, physical, psychological help?
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Of the four veterans that we're talking about, and which are other than the four that they
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But of the four that I have personally dealt with, none of them were asking for maid.
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One, veteran number one, he was asking for help with a traumatic brain injury.
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Um, veteran number two was asking for help with PTSD supports.
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Veteran number three was asking for help with, um, uh, a wheelchair lift.
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And all out of the blue, well, you know, if up the road, this is just too much of a burden
00:09:00.040
for you to bear, we can kill you and we'll help you.
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You know, it's, it's shocking to hear, but then you look at within the popular culture,
00:09:17.620
things like the Quebec-based department store, Simon's running an ad, trying to sell clothes,
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And it's something that I think that we either decided as a society to accept, or depending
00:09:39.260
on your view, maybe you think the Supreme Court thrusted upon us, but we, we accepted
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Now, that ad that you're talking about, her name is Jennifer.
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And after her death, all of her friends are coming forward saying she never wanted to die.
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The medical system failed her and she didn't know what else to do.
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But instead of offering supports, just like, uh, um, Christine Gauthier with her wheelchair
00:10:18.100
lift, she, well, ma'am, if this issue of dragging yourself through the snow every winter for the
00:10:25.420
last five years is just too much of a burden, why don't you go kill yourself?
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And instead of help, uh, people are being encouraged to pull the plug.
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Now, hypothetically, I am not opposed to maid under the right circumstances.
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If it's your truly end of life, you have an untreatable terminal deal and you want to
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avoid the last couple of months of suffering, sure, makes sense.
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But there's a 24-year-old man who was missing, um, an eye and had a little bit of depression
00:11:04.960
who died on September 24th of this year on Vancouver Island.
00:11:10.520
And how was that even possible being that maid shouldn't be allowed, isn't allowed officially
00:11:18.280
Well, apparently that is simply a line of crap because, uh, it's happening.
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People are already accessing it for mental health issues, even though that's not officially
00:11:30.820
supposed to be accessible till March of next year.
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And for those that do choose, they're choosing a permanent option for a temporary problem.
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And, and out of exasperation because our, because of the failure of our medical, um, it's like
00:11:49.240
Our medical system is creating the problem through a lack of service.
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And then the only solution they offer for the problem that they are causing through their
00:12:00.720
I remember when this, um, was first being discussed on, on Parliament Hill and, uh, one
00:12:13.060
The, he said, if we don't have enough palliative care, his, his worry was that we would have
00:12:18.680
seniors under pressure to take this option because, well, hospitals are full.
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I never remember anybody raising the concerns that you do.
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I, I spoke to advocates from all sides while covering this story.
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I never remember hearing this, um, it being put forward for, for veterans seeking help,
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or as you said, the young woman, Jennifer, uh, that was used in the ad.
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Now, Lawrence McCauley, the veterans affairs minister has come forward and said, we would
00:13:11.760
So I, uh, just received a letter from Lawrence this morning that I opened up and I gave him
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the same math that I gave you, Brian, uh, breaking down how they work by region that I personally
00:13:25.120
Here I am little lonely podcaster in Alberta, and I'm able to find all these people and
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yet, uh, they can't with, with all the resources of veterans affairs, Canada, it's absolutely
00:13:43.200
So you want the people who have been offered assisted suicide by veterans affairs, Canada
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to call veterans, Canada to say, Hey, you offered me assisted suicide.
00:14:00.800
And the veterans ombudsman I've, I've invited Nishika on the show a dozen times.
00:14:05.980
Just keep, and the, she's never got over the finish line.
00:14:10.660
Um, I don't have any faith in those two routes that are offered, which is through the veterans
00:14:20.760
There has to be, if there's going to be, it has to be somebody that's third party where
00:14:27.860
So I've been asking and people have been coming forward, come forward to me, come forward
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Clearly, I am pretty good at keeping people's names out of the media.
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I'll protect your name if you want to, but come forward to me and let me be that center
00:14:42.960
point or somebody else that you know that you want to have as a center point and appoint
00:14:51.300
And what we really need, Brian, is a whistleblower from Veterans Affairs Canada, either a current
00:14:56.280
or former employee that knows full well that caseworkers are set up by region, that knows
00:15:07.940
And how can it be five caseworkers and it wasn't policy?
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Five caseworkers in four, at least four different jurisdictions you found?
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So, uh, BC, Alberta, Ontario, Quebec is what I've found so far.
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The, do you come at this as, as a veteran yourself?
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Tell me your backstory, how you became involved in this.
00:15:38.400
So I served 91 to 95, did about four and a half years.
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Um, in 94, I was a UN peacekeeper in Croatia during the genocide.
00:15:46.640
And back in 94, absolutely nobody was talking about PTSD.
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And if they were, it wasn't in a very nice way.
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So when I was exhibiting over the top outbursts and just classic symptoms that we know today,
00:16:07.460
There was nobody put their hand on my shoulder and say, Hey, we got to talk to somebody.
00:16:11.780
And even if there was somebody to talk to, they wouldn't have known how to handle it back
00:16:16.720
Um, so I went 23 years without being diagnosed, 23 years of a train wreck before my wife finally
00:16:24.320
put my, her hand on my shoulder and says, Mark, those are just crumbs.
00:16:28.440
We can clean them up as I was jacking up my kid and, and, and hurting him by giving, always
00:16:41.160
So that was 2017 when I, uh, finally stepped forward, picked up the thousand pound telephone,
00:16:52.940
It shouldn't have to be this brutal, but it's a brutal, brutal road to recovery.
00:16:56.920
And a lot of people, I'd say the majority don't make it.
00:17:01.000
They either pop out of the system because it's just too darn hard or they don't get started
00:17:06.900
Um, of everybody that has reached out for help and is in the system, I would guess that 80%
00:17:16.540
Uh, I think it's a very small portion of veterans actually use the services because they know
00:17:23.540
that from all the stories that we hear in the veteran community, that it's always a fight.
00:17:29.220
Everybody I know who's been through VAC, it's been a fight, fight, fight, because VAC will
00:17:38.180
When you're going through five years and three appeals for anything, whether it be from tinnitus
00:17:49.860
So as expensive as we are to the government, um, the system is working pretty darn good
00:18:02.880
What kind of services are most people that you're talking to looking for?
00:18:08.240
Now you're an interesting case because you just said you went 23 years without seeking
00:18:14.480
help, but there's got to be an awful lot of veterans that need a bit of help, maybe not
00:18:21.200
And there, would you say they're still not getting the assistance they need?
00:18:32.480
That one seems to be a fairly low barrier to entry.
00:18:35.520
Um, so I'm grateful for that, but everybody I know who, um, has bad knees or a bad back
00:18:42.640
or, uh, any, any physical service related injury, it is absolutely grueling.
00:18:50.040
It is a Mount Everest to get to the point where you're actually receiving the services.
00:18:59.440
Um, deny, deny, and I, my ears are ringing right now just from saying the word tinnitus,
00:19:04.820
but, um, uh, they're even ignoring the cause of tinnitus.
00:19:17.680
Well, what does the audio test have to do with anything?
00:19:21.280
Um, and, um, so there's just all these programs, all these barriers to these programs and, um,
00:19:30.600
it is too much, you know, so I, I, uh, got my PTSD claim and I've, I've left it at that.
00:19:37.240
Mark, I want to ask you about getting services from Veterans Affairs Canada.
00:19:41.240
You know, your case, you were 23 years without seeking assistance, uh, PTSD having a major impact
00:19:49.180
on your life and your family, but there's gotta be an awful lot of veterans who maybe they,
00:19:54.480
they just need a little bit out on the physical side or mental health supports or what have
00:19:59.940
Is it difficult for, for them to get assistance as well?
00:20:03.960
You know, is it just hard cases that are difficult to deal with?
00:20:08.640
What's it like trying to get services out of this federal body that's supposed to be
00:20:15.800
So for some reason, PTSD claims are the easiest to get services for.
00:20:20.960
Although when I went through, it still took 10 months from the time I put my hand up and
00:20:27.780
entered the system to the time I actually saw a therapist.
00:20:30.560
And I just did a show this morning and he was five months.
00:20:38.260
Um, every other claim, if it's a physical claim of any sort, the initial claim is extraordinarily
00:20:45.480
difficult and the ongoing claim is still extraordinarily difficult.
00:20:50.320
On my tour, uh, Tommy Anderson had both of his legs blown off from a landmine in Croatia,
00:20:57.760
So, I mean, that's 28 years ago and he is still struggling for services all the time.
00:21:05.160
He went, uh, without prosthetic legs for, I don't want to put a date to it.
00:21:10.020
Uh, I just follow him on, on Facebook, but it's a considerable amount of time, like a month
00:21:14.400
that he wasn't, uh, able to walk because he was getting refitted.
00:21:18.660
So, he was without legs for a month, you know, um, uh, and all the other issues that he's
00:21:25.220
having from that landmine strike way back in 94, um, eyeball surgery, still shrapnel that's
00:21:55.560
I can understand certain injuries you can, you can recover from, and maybe you don't need
00:22:02.160
assistance, but how have they not figured out that his legs will not grow back?
00:22:07.900
Well, how will they, I've heard this being asked in the house of commons and the answer
00:22:12.320
is, well, we're just checking to see if there's been any changes on your file.
00:22:16.840
Like, you know, it's like, well, okay, but how about we leave out the part of the permanent
00:22:22.400
Um, I was talking with Brock Plaszczak yesterday.
00:22:24.540
He's the, uh, fella who was famously asked at a town hall by Justin Trudeau, our veterans
00:22:31.200
are asking for more than we can give right now.
00:22:33.720
Um, well, so, uh, I'm pretty good friends with Brock now.
00:22:38.660
He's been on the show a couple of times and his struggle threw back a guy missing a leg
00:22:44.040
and a half, um, and like lots of injuries, but he's missing a leg and a half and it's
00:22:51.640
been nothing but a ridiculous struggle for this guy the whole way through.
00:22:56.700
And you'd think we'd be doing a better job with our Afghan vets than we did with our, our
00:23:02.660
Yugoslavia, um, Balkan vets, but nope, nope, still the same crap.
00:23:08.700
And, uh, it's because they're acting like an insurance agency there.
00:23:15.020
And Brock is of the belief, and he might be right, that there's an internal incentive system.
00:23:19.760
And I'd love to see an internal on it to see if, if this is true, but there's an internal
00:23:26.980
Now, I don't know if that's true, but that he's of that belief and, uh, there's actually
00:23:32.760
very, very many people that, that believe that for sure.
00:23:38.380
If you ever saw the, um, uh, the movie, uh, Mr. Incredible or the Incredibles, uh, about
00:23:45.280
a fake superhero family, he works as an insurance agent and, uh, yeah, he got incentives for
00:23:52.940
Uh, Brian Lilly, guest host on Full Comment this week, speaking with Mark, uh,
00:23:56.980
Mikey about the problems facing veterans and the issue of vets and maid.
00:24:02.580
We'll continue the conversation in just a moment.
00:24:06.260
We'll get back to the discussion around veterans and maid in a moment, but I want to continue
00:24:12.260
the conversation, uh, Mark by discussing services still.
00:24:18.780
You've described the, uh, absolutely insane position where people have to prove that their
00:24:28.360
In many ways, it sounds like our healthcare system.
00:24:30.640
And when I speak to Americans about our healthcare system and you know, they, they'll have heard
00:24:36.380
either wonderful things or horror stories, depending on who they talk to.
00:24:40.000
And they asked me about it and I say, well, the service is good when you can get in.
00:24:45.640
Once you get in, are they looking after people?
00:24:51.340
Um, if you need anything through Veterans Affairs Canada that isn't in the box and it's a very
00:24:58.040
small box, uh, it's, you go to the OSI clinic, which the operations stress injury clinic, and
00:25:04.020
you get talk therapy or you talk to the shrink and you get pills.
00:25:12.100
Uh, and that's why there are about 4,500, um, veterans agencies all over the place in,
00:25:19.040
in Canada and just little ones, little mom pops like myself or five person, um, agencies.
00:25:28.380
I try to find as many of them as I can and bring them on the show to talk about the services
00:25:32.860
that they offer, um, because VAC is not the place that you can go for a retreat or for
00:25:41.440
equine therapy or float therapy or psychedelics or any of the other things that have high efficacy.
00:25:51.560
And, uh, some of the stuff like the ketamine clinics that are coming out, very high efficacy
00:25:59.040
I mean, they say that they're going to cover it, but it's a battle and a half to get them
00:26:07.640
Uh, there's two in Calgary, the newly and way found or way finders.
00:26:11.940
So it's a psychedelic, um, assisted therapy with medical professionals and the, the science
00:26:21.840
behind, behind ketamine, MDNA, psilocybin, it's more and more studies coming out all the
00:26:29.060
But I can tell you, I've had all these people on the show and including the people that
00:26:33.580
have gone through the therapies and it looks good.
00:26:37.880
Something like 80% of the people get significant help in a short amount of time, as opposed
00:26:43.040
to the OSI clinic who their own internal numbers show an efficacy rate of between 12 and 16%.
00:26:51.740
So that's why I do what I do to try to find a better mousetrap.
00:26:56.940
After the first world war, we just called it shell shock.
00:27:03.320
How did, uh, people like my grandfather deal with it?
00:27:07.300
A couple of shots of Raya on a Saturday watching the Leafs play.
00:27:11.360
That was the way too many people dealt with it.
00:27:14.400
Um, you would have thought that we would have gotten better.
00:27:18.600
As you said, you're from the, the Balkan era and friends that were in the reserves that
00:27:26.640
And I remember, um, around the time that you would have been there running into one of them
00:27:31.040
in a nightclub and, uh, asked how he was doing and it broke down.
00:27:34.880
Nobody would have thought of, of getting PTSD help back then, because you should say we didn't
00:27:41.760
know about it, how can they still be failing at, at this?
00:27:48.120
Do they still have the mindset that you've just got a, uh, of the second world war era?
00:27:55.000
Has there been a, a change in outlook at veterans affairs or are they just really, really dated?
00:28:03.280
The US high clinics are less than 10 years old.
00:28:06.460
I mean, actually having help for all this is new.
00:28:11.760
And different police agencies for the, on the first responder side, different agencies
00:28:20.740
You can put up your hand and get help without it being a career killer.
00:28:25.620
I know of one RCMP agent, uh, or one RCMP officer rather in Alberta right now, she got
00:28:37.700
So, we're getting better, but we've got a long way to go.
00:28:42.400
And just look at the business model of the Royal Canadian Legion.
00:28:45.260
It's still, hey, get cheap beer here to medicate yourself.
00:28:49.260
I mean, uh, we haven't gone, uh, gotten any better since World War I with the Royal Canadian
00:29:01.000
How about closing down all these pubs that aren't making money anyway and, and open up
00:29:05.320
a bunch of gyms, you know, and have a coffee corner in the, in the corner and maybe a couple
00:29:10.840
of private, uh, meeting rooms for, for veterans.
00:29:13.660
That would be a model that makes sense because then you're actually supporting the health
00:29:17.500
of veterans and let them have the sense of community that way.
00:29:25.040
You go there and it's not a place for veterans anymore.
00:29:28.240
Matter of fact, there's story after story, including a story that I personally experienced
00:29:32.460
where an actual veteran walks in the Legion and gets escorted right back out.
00:29:43.000
I had, um, in my personal experience, and unfortunately it's not rare.
00:29:47.100
I found out after my, I posted this video of my response, but I was at the High River Legion
00:29:52.420
and, um, I just dropped off my youngest son at Air Cadets.
00:30:05.340
But, uh, I, well, I got a couple of hours to kill while my youngest boy's an Air Cadet.
00:30:11.460
So I walk into the, what should be my haven, right?
00:30:18.800
And I walk in and I instantly get all these cold stares from all these, um, bingo players.
00:30:26.000
So I kind of gingerly scoot, scoot around all these, um, bingo players and I go to the bar.
00:30:32.820
I don't drink, but I, um, I asked if they have a non-alcoholic beer or something.
00:30:39.040
Well, just so you know, I'm, I'm, I'm a veteran.
00:30:42.560
I am a veteran looking for a little refuge for the, for a couple hours.
00:30:46.980
Well, you can have, there's a pitcher of water.
00:30:49.540
I, then I saw that, uh, the coffee actually was on.
00:30:59.560
So I put five bucks in the honor jar to, to have my coffee.
00:31:03.360
Grabbed a book off the shelf, sat down and I'm reading, uh, reading a book, having a coffee.
00:31:08.480
And while they're B-52, you know, and just minding my own damn business.
00:31:31.040
That didn't sink in Brian until about half an hour later after I'd left.
00:31:46.180
But stories like that, um, go on and on and on.
00:31:50.620
And the comment stream on the video I made of that, uh, were just a litany of stories that are similar.
00:31:57.280
You know, I, I didn't even think of the Legion as being a place that veterans could go get help, but it should be.
00:32:03.760
Well, there's the, there's the pubs and then there's Northwest Command.
00:32:08.780
And, um, the reason I did that viral video is that when I first reached out for help at the beginning in 2017, it was the Legion that I reached out to and they were Johnny on the spot.
00:32:20.740
So I thought, what if I was a veteran in distress?
00:32:27.660
And what if I just was sitting there with my coffee and my book, working up the courage to ask for help because I was too embarrassed?
00:32:39.160
And that's why I had to make the viral video because I've been that guy.
00:32:46.020
And to be treated like that, when it's supposed to be our house, it, um, I had, I had to do it.
00:32:57.320
If you were to advise the government that says veterans are asking for more than we can give right now, if you were to advise them, uh, what would be a few concrete steps that they could tell, take to help the veterans community?
00:33:17.360
Well, we can't help you, but we can help you kill yourself.
00:33:23.480
Veterans Affairs Canada has to get burned to the ground and rebuilt.
00:33:28.520
The leadership at the top is either unable or unwilling to make change.
00:33:35.220
I don't know which it is, but they all got to go and they got to get replaced with people that know how to make things happen.
00:33:41.860
It's a giant bureaucracy right now, and it has to change.
00:33:47.960
You get a bunch of stakeholders who are actually on the ground dealing with stuff like myself.
00:34:00.660
Uh, just the other day, I was talking about how VAC should look.
00:34:11.640
When you have PTSD, filling out paperwork is one of the most difficult things imaginable.
00:34:18.520
My wife is scratching her head about it, but that's just how it is.
00:34:22.280
Jumping through these hoops is forcing us to do that as predatory.
00:34:25.940
So instead of that, just assume we're not liars right off the bat.
00:34:32.200
Uh, you know, like who lies their ass off to get a, an appointment with a shrink?
00:34:39.920
Or who commits fraud so that they can get a ride in a float tank?
00:34:47.380
Or who commits fraud so that they can do equine therapy?
00:34:53.820
So remove the barrier to, to entry and turn service agents, case workers into paper processors.
00:35:03.540
And then you have outreach agents that physically go to veterans, to their door and say, hey, how you doing on a regular schedule?
00:35:12.780
Uh, especially if they have an open claim and, uh, and assess for, for yourself, have them as assessors to, to, to see what you need in effort to try to help, not to try to, um, uh, right now there's private detectives that follow some of us around trying to disprove us, trying to prove that we're liars and scammers.
00:35:33.880
So if you got the money to spend on private detectives, how about, um, outreach agents instead?
00:35:40.980
Look, I've heard of things like that for workplace insurance, because we've all heard the story of the guy who, oh, my, my back's bad.
00:35:52.440
And then they're, you know, laying a brick driveway, uh, for their neighbor.
00:36:01.660
If you put up your hand and you say you have PTSD, you're not getting a million bucks.
00:36:05.840
As you say, you're getting an interview with a shrink.
00:36:10.100
I mean, there is a money, uh, uh, claim at some point as well.
00:36:13.480
Like I'm living off of, um, off of a monthly pension right now from my injuries.
00:36:18.940
Um, so, but it took five years of a meat grinder to get it.
00:36:22.680
So I don't mind a bit of skepticism with that, but for immediate support, for immediate help to go see a psychologist or some sort of therapist.
00:36:33.480
Um, I don't care if it's forest bathing, like whatever somebody wants, just give it to them because they have to start somewhere and it's better than them not starting at all.
00:36:44.780
One of the, um, I get a lot of notes from my show.
00:36:49.160
One of my favorites or standouts is a couple that reached out to me to say, this is what your show has done for me.
00:37:02.940
So instead, we've been listening to your show together.
00:37:05.520
As he's gaming, we have it playing in the background while I'm rubbing his shoulders.
00:37:10.300
Then eventually, he could listen to it, just the two of us, without him gaming.
00:37:15.720
And we listen and we know that we're not alone.
00:37:17.960
And now, after a year of doing that, using my show as a stepping stone to build that courage, he's in actual therapy now.
00:37:37.240
VAC, how is it that one guy by himself, with no resources other than my will, can find all these resources and vet them?
00:37:48.380
Why can I do it, but VAC, with all their billions of dollars, can't?
00:37:53.680
There's solutions that they're not even looking for.
00:38:10.580
If you haven't already, I encourage everyone to check out Operation Tango Romeo, otherwise known as Trauma Recovery Podcast, and the resources that Mark has up on his page.
00:38:25.020
I thank you for taking the time and for this second round of service that seems like it might be going longer than your first round, helping people deal with what they have gone through.
00:38:38.500
So, best of luck to you, and I hope we can chat again.
00:38:52.420
Well, Kevin Libin is the executive producer of Full Comment.
00:38:55.880
You can subscribe, and I encourage you to subscribe to Full Comment on Apple Podcasts, Google, Spotify, Amazon Music.
00:39:02.700
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