Full Comment - Poilievre turns conservatism into ‘a choice, not an echo’

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00:00:50.360 Hello, I'm Anthony Fury.

00:00:51.740 Thanks for joining us for the latest episode of Full Common.

00:00:54.240 Please consider subscribing if you haven't done so already.

00:00:57.640 Will Pierre Polyev beat Justin Trudeau?

00:00:59.720 And become the next Prime Minister of Canada?

00:01:02.280 Let's be honest, that's the main question that everyone who follows politics is talking

00:01:05.240 about right now.

00:01:06.440 And everyone has their answer.

00:01:07.720 Yes, Trudeau is toast.

00:01:08.960 He's a goner, imminently.

00:01:10.380 No, no, no.

00:01:10.980 Pierre, he's an extremist.

00:01:12.740 Canadians won't vote for him.

00:01:13.700 It ain't gonna fly.

00:01:15.380 And of course, every other opinion in between.

00:01:17.920 And let's unpack that big question right now for sure.

00:01:20.100 But let's also talk about some of the other questions behind it.

00:01:23.720 Like, can the momentum that Polyev's currently enjoying be sustained between now and an election?

00:01:29.200 What's the deal with reports of all these new young people flocking to the party?

00:01:32.840 Is that the real deal?

00:01:33.540 Oh, that's quite something.

00:01:34.820 Oh, and Will Polyev do the classic thing and soften up between now and then.

00:01:38.800 Run the liberal light.

00:01:39.600 Maybe he'll run on bringing in a third carbon tax eventually.

00:01:42.160 I don't know.

00:01:42.840 Let's talk about all of it.

00:01:44.680 And one of the people in Canada best positioned to talk about what's really going on right

00:01:48.240 now is Michael Diamond, who is the founder of Upstream Strategy Group and a conservative

00:01:53.040 campaign veteran, including working as campaign director for Doug Ford's leadership win.

00:01:58.100 Michael Diamond, welcome to the show.

00:02:00.200 Thanks for having me today.

00:02:01.180 Great to have you on, sir.

00:02:03.480 That Polyev victory, definitely not a shocker, but I guess one of the shockers was how broad 1.00

00:02:10.340 it was, how big of a victory it was.

00:02:13.080 And it wasn't just the percentage, which is obviously astronomical.

00:02:16.720 Over 70% of the raw vote went his way, which is even more than Stephen Harper got against

00:02:22.620 Tony Clement and Belinda Stronick when he founded the party, and close to 69% of the points

00:02:28.620 because of the votes allocated.

00:02:29.620 But it was the number of ridings he won.

00:02:31.200 He won all but eight ridings.

00:02:34.140 He won every riding west of Ontario.

00:02:36.700 He won all but two in Ontario and all but six in Quebec.

00:02:39.580 And he won absolutely everywhere else.

00:02:41.600 So it wasn't just how big it was in terms of the raw number and the points that that

00:02:47.060 translated to.

00:02:47.860 But regionally, it was spread out nearly even, well, evenly and in diverse regions of the

00:02:54.520 country.

00:02:55.700 You know, I'll never forget covering the Justin Trudeau 2013 leadership race.

00:02:59.920 And he took it with like, you know, much more than that, a crazy percentage of it.

00:03:03.720 But it wasn't really a contested election.

00:03:05.720 I think there was, I think Mark Garneau was involved on the final ballot, Martha Hall

00:03:10.160 Findlay, but it wasn't huge campaigns.

00:03:12.680 People pretty much just let Trudeau have it.

00:03:14.540 One of the things interesting about this one was it was contested.

00:03:17.220 I mean, Jean Charest, serious guy, former premier, you know, a number of people out there

00:03:21.840 who were really, you know, in it to win it.

00:03:23.700 Less than Lewis had placed, at one point in the last leadership race, I guess she was

00:03:27.440 second in the popular vote on one of the ballots.

00:03:31.160 First in the popular vote.

00:03:31.980 Right.

00:03:32.260 That was it.

00:03:32.660 Yes.

00:03:32.980 Yes, exactly.

00:03:33.540 She joined us recently for an episode and drove that point home.

00:03:36.440 So she's a very popular person.

00:03:37.980 Jean Charest has quite the resume.

00:03:39.840 So it's interesting that Pierre did well, even facing serious contenders.

00:03:44.420 Oh, absolutely.

00:03:45.960 But when Trudeau ran, actually, Garneau, who was the chief opponent, got out before a single

00:03:50.600 vote was cast.

00:03:51.360 So he had, you know, has-beens like Martha Hall Finlay's and frankly, a cast of Never Was

00:03:56.440 and Joyce Marie, who I think came in second, who was a little known member of Parliament from

00:04:01.740 British Columbia.

00:04:03.040 So, you know, he had really a clear field in different roles.

00:04:06.660 So Pierre facing, yes, Jean Charest, a man who'd been elected Premier of Quebec three times,

00:04:12.060 a man who was leader of a national political party, a man who came out of, you know, from

00:04:16.200 a junior cabinet position to nearly defeat the party establishment's preferred candidate. 0.69

00:04:23.420 As ridiculous as that now is going to sound, looking back at our history in Kim Campbell.

00:04:28.260 So, you know, Jean Charest is a man who knows how to campaign. 0.83

00:04:31.340 He's a great, great, great orator.

00:04:34.340 And I think, you know, really came in high.

00:04:36.880 And then you also had Patrick Brown, who is well known for his organizational chops.

00:04:41.680 He obviously didn't make the final ballot.

00:04:43.140 But, you know, none of that was a competition for Pierre's unique brand and, you know, his

00:04:51.220 secret sauce, which I think is all that secret, if you look at it closely, of politics, which

00:04:57.100 pushed him to this massive, massive, massive level.

00:05:00.980 Yeah, and, you know, it's interesting because when I think of previous leadership races that

00:05:06.800 I've watched in Canada, I remember the Michael Ignatieff, Bob Ray leadership race.

00:05:11.520 It was considered like the biggest event in Canadian political history ever.

00:05:15.400 And I remember like these 10-page spreads in the Globe and Mail and all these essays.

00:05:18.520 And I don't want to say it was all for naught.

00:05:20.760 I don't know if that's a fair phrase to say, but none of those guys became prime minister,

00:05:24.900 you know, spilled a lot of ink, spent a lot of money.

00:05:27.240 Nothing kind of came of it.

00:05:28.500 And we have these moments where there's big moments, but then in hindsight, you're like,

00:05:32.020 well, what was that all for?

00:05:33.080 And of course, we had that for arguably the past two conserved leadership races, Andrew

00:05:37.280 Scheer and O'Toole being victors.

00:05:40.560 Do you feel that is possible right now?

00:05:42.660 Or as so many people are saying, this time, things feel different.

00:05:47.620 I think Pierre Paulyev is quite well positioned to be prime minister.

00:05:51.080 I frankly think, you know, I was sort of surprised last election.

00:05:54.860 I thought the conservatives were in a better position to take out Justin Trudeau as well.

00:06:00.500 So, you know, elections are funny things and they can happen.

00:06:03.440 But, you know, Pierre Paulyev, I think, has a very different approach to politics than any leader we've really seen in Canada in recent times.

00:06:12.480 That is, you'll see politicians often fighting yesterday's battle and they're, I don't know if it's that, you know, they and their establishment are upset that they lost an election on an issue and they really want to rectify that, you know, correct the history on that issue.

00:06:28.260 But they're missing the zeitgeist.

00:06:30.320 I think Pierre Paulyev, better than any politician in this country currently, gets the zeitgeist.

00:06:35.520 And he's been doing that for years.

00:06:36.920 So if you go through his riding association, the Conservative Electoral District Association's financial records for it used to be Nepean Carleton.

00:06:45.440 And now it's just called Carleton because the riding's changed.

00:06:48.180 He's been there since he first was elected.

00:06:50.580 And one thing you'll notice is over time, most of these riding association votes and incumbent MP, you know, they raise money locally, you know, it's, you know, they have a fundraiser, people give the money, members give the money at the end of the year.

00:07:01.820 Pairs are different.

00:07:02.600 Pairs have a cross-Canada, you go through those postal codes and you see addresses everywhere from Prince Edward Island to British Columbia and everywhere in between.

00:07:11.780 And that's because he's had this appeal of talking about the issues of today and proposing a conservative solution.

00:07:16.780 So Andrew Scheer, I think, you know, who I was quite excited about his candidacy for prime minister, I think he focused on issues of yesterday.

00:07:26.700 And, you know, it almost worked.

00:07:28.840 He reduced Stephen Harper to a minority.

00:07:31.880 Sorry, he reduced Justin Trudeau to a minority.

00:07:34.320 And he won the popular vote.

00:07:36.760 Not that that's how elections are chosen in this country, but it was monumental.

00:07:40.420 And with Aaron O'Toole, I think, you know, where he actually lost some of the ground that Mr. Scheer made up, he was scared to be proudly conservative and a robust conservative.

00:07:52.080 And, you know, I think conservatives can win when they offer to grab a phrase from Barry Goldwater or about Barry Goldwater, a echo, a choice, not an echo.

00:08:02.820 And I think the great thing about Pierre Polyev is he's not looking at yesterday's issues, he's looking at today's issues, and he always has been.

00:08:08.300 He's been talking about deflation.

00:08:09.500 He's been talking about the price of groceries.

00:08:12.400 He's been talking about the absolute disaster that are passport offices in this country.

00:08:17.400 He's talking about the issues of today, and then he's proposing conservative solutions for them.

00:08:21.240 So it's going to be, you know, there's obviously going to be dozens of ways to tackle a given issue.

00:08:26.200 There's going to be a conservative approach and a liberal approach.

00:08:28.320 And, you know, Justin Trudeau is going to take the liberal or worse approach to a given issue.

00:08:33.760 So that means that, you know, we have free reign to propose the conservative, sensible solution.

00:08:38.500 And that's why he does so well.

00:08:40.140 That's why he was getting the crowds out, because he's proposing, you know, the gatekeepers.

00:08:44.220 We all get that.

00:08:46.280 It makes sense.

00:08:47.080 So it's the gatekeepers who are keeping the very convenient Toronto Island Airport from being an option to augment Pearson International Airport as the only major airport in the Toronto region.

00:09:00.160 Why has Pierre talked about that issue?

00:09:02.240 I kind of find it odd that he ceased on that issue.

00:09:05.740 All the issues he's talked about.

00:09:07.340 Look, I actually think it's a perfect encapsulation of these gatekeepers who are keeping the rest of us from having the services and the products and the low taxes.

00:09:19.980 And, you know, to grab a phrase that's apparently offensive now, the freedom that we all need and deserve.

00:09:26.060 Oh, no, no, none of those words here, please.

00:09:27.920 None of those words here.

00:09:28.940 I don't think I'm regulated by the broadcasting stand.

00:09:31.620 I don't know how that works.

00:09:32.380 Maybe they will.

00:09:32.940 That's the whole point of those Trudeau censorship laws.

00:09:34.840 Well, that would be a new gatekeeper.

00:09:37.780 You know, they're going to put a gatekeeper after you, Anthony.

00:09:39.960 But in the meantime, what we have is, you know, Pierre probably just talked about these issues.

00:09:44.400 And there's dozens of them in every region of the country.

00:09:47.120 And downtown Toronto, where there's certainly a lot of ridings in the conservative leadership, it makes sense.

00:09:52.580 But also for the rest of the country, where they're literally, I have friends who don't live here who are scared.

00:09:58.000 Not scared, but just like very adverse to traveling to Toronto right now because they want to avoid the catastrophe that they see every day at Pearson International Airport.

00:10:07.700 We had a proposal for another airport in Toronto, a very convenient one that would have augmented Pearson's capacity issues, which was not related to COVID.

00:10:16.600 But it's related to growth and further demand in travel, both cargo and personal.

00:10:25.980 And, you know, Canadians are seeing that across the country, that he's talking about a solution for Pearson.

00:10:32.340 He's talking about a solution for passport offices.

00:10:34.560 He's talking about getting these gatekeepers out of the way who just, frankly, make everything worse and cost us more money.

00:10:41.320 So, you know, it's a good conservative solution that be it from making, you know, municipalities be more cooperative in allowing those who build homes.

00:10:53.480 Oh, OK.

00:10:53.960 Let me ask, though, these issues, where are they 12 months, 18 months, two years, three years from now when there is an election and when the just don't call it a coalition coalition crumbles between the NDP and liberals and we find ourselves in an election?

00:11:12.900 What's what's the atmosphere going to be like that?

00:11:15.780 I don't know.

00:11:16.380 I, you know, I wonder, are the mortgage is going to roll over then and everyone's, you know, going to be losing their houses or are things going to be doing better?

00:11:24.560 None of us know.

00:11:26.360 You know, I mean, I certainly hope that the Canadian economy stabilizes as soon as possible.

00:11:31.860 So if that doesn't require an election, that doesn't require, you know, it doesn't require an election.

00:11:36.660 I mean, you know, that's good for everyone, obviously.

00:11:38.400 But the beauty about Pierre's approach to politics is it doesn't matter what the issues are today because he's focusing on the issues of the day.

00:11:45.960 He has his pulse on the, squarely on the zeitgeist.

00:11:48.560 So he's nimble enough that he can continue to take this approach to politics of focusing on these issues, not be baked in on, you know, a carbon tax saving plan or have, you know, a platform that's, you know, squarely, you know, largely developed well before an election.

00:12:05.780 And it's baked in because, you know, we've decided, you know, that's how we've done politics in the past.

00:12:09.860 He's taking a different approach.

00:12:11.000 So he'll be able to be nimble enough to focus on those issues of tomorrow.

00:12:14.980 So hopefully it's not foreclosures.

00:12:16.940 If it's foreclosures, that will be his issue.

00:12:19.000 People are losing their houses.

00:12:20.120 If it's that, you know, we have, you know, whatever the issue of the day is, if Pearson's still a mass, it will be that.

00:12:27.800 But if it's not, you know, there's dozens of issues that he can attack with the conservative solutions.

00:12:31.940 I think that's what he's been really so strong and good at is focusing on the issues of today instead of the issues he wants to focus on.

00:12:40.120 So I'm focusing on his pet projects.

00:12:41.500 I don't think Pierre Paglia woke up and said, you know, those passport offices, I really dislike them personally.

00:12:46.840 You know, it's like he saw that it was causing chaos for people across the country or ditto for Billy Bishop Airport or ditto.

00:12:53.460 Well, let me ask you about pet projects, though, because I think they also speak to long-term vision.

00:12:57.440 There's the issues of the day and then there's the, you know, the Canada I want to build, the nation, the vision that I want to get people behind.

00:13:03.180 One thing that really gets the crowds excited, and I know we know this predates Pierre Paglia's bid, is smack talk in the CBC to any degree, defunding, eliminating.

00:13:12.340 It was interesting that Aaron O'Toole said, I'm going to pretty much eliminate the CBC, and they got watered down, watered down.

00:13:17.900 And then eventually it was just like, okay, Justin Trudeau is going to give them whatever, a gazillion billion more.

00:13:22.820 I'll just give them slightly less more kind of thing.

00:13:24.640 It almost felt like it got to that point.

00:13:26.900 Pierre Paglia of being very aggressive talking about CBC, is this the kind of thing that stays as like a core principle and they spend the next couple of years working up to the election or whatever it is,

00:13:38.660 talking about how can we actually execute this, what are we going to propose and that kind of stuff?

00:13:43.180 Oh, absolutely.

00:13:43.880 And I think it's that, you know, the arguments to perform or abolish or defund the CBC are all highly reasonable if you're bold enough and brave enough to communicate them.

00:13:58.120 And I think that's where we got into trouble last time.

00:14:01.640 The CPC, that is.

00:14:03.300 I don't see Pierre falling into that trap.

00:14:06.180 You know, he's not a man who's scared to say what he thinks.

00:14:09.240 He's very concise.

00:14:10.440 He's very articulate.

00:14:11.340 He's very bold.

00:14:12.340 Which is, you know, just what we need here.

00:14:15.600 So, I mean, I am quite confident.

00:14:18.180 You know, I've not spoken to him about this, you know, but I'm quite confident, you know, you're not going to see the U-turn because, you know, he's in it for these values.

00:14:28.980 And sometimes those values will intersect with what the issues of the day are.

00:14:32.120 They always can.

00:14:33.080 That's the beauty.

00:14:34.000 But I've been told.

00:14:34.680 Conservative solutions can always, always, always touch the issues of the day.

00:14:38.460 But these other issues, I do think are going to remain, he'll remain true to himself and to our base.

00:14:42.960 I've had the experience many times where I've said, what's with this, you know, Aaron O'Toole carbon tax or whatever, something that didn't strike me as genuine.

00:14:50.220 And then someone wants to come to argue me or whisper in my ear, oh, no, no, you've got to understand, we're just doing this and that.

00:14:55.900 And there's always that reminder.

00:14:56.980 Remember, you can't actually do the things that you want to do in government.

00:15:00.780 You can't form government until you win.

00:15:02.840 And this is just the pathway to win.

00:15:04.240 And I've always felt like, I don't know if it is the pathway to win, being a fraud and sort of misleading people.

00:15:08.260 I'm going to campaign as a liberal.

00:15:10.080 And then when I get in, I'll magically govern as a conservative, even though you don't have the mandate to, because it's not what you campaigned on.

00:15:15.780 I mean, those arguments are going to come to the fore.

00:15:18.620 Surely someone at the table is going to say, all right, Mr. Polyev, you know, I've run these numbers, these charts and everything.

00:15:23.100 There's no way you can win unless you promise, you know, this thing, this liberal thing.

00:15:28.160 And Michael, I take it you're saying, well, no, they're just they're not going to do that this time.

00:15:33.080 Well, it's also not true.

00:15:34.440 Look, look at the results last time where, you know, where the campaign made a decision.

00:15:39.680 You know, I remember one media article about how the whole strategy was to, you know, we're going to trigger we're going to trigger some policy decisions that will cost us vote in Alberta.

00:15:48.740 And then we'll like, you know, we'll we'll subtract them in Alberta and then we'll just magically add them into Ontario.

00:15:53.940 And that that grand, beautiful, so-called visionary strategy, all it did was it accomplished a goal of costing us votes in Alberta.

00:16:01.660 And with it, it also cost the CPC two seats.

00:16:04.700 We didn't make up ground in Ontario like they thought.

00:16:08.140 So there's like not not only is it wrong, it's just strategically ain't gonna ain't gonna work.

00:16:13.900 I mean, you know, the worst thing Pierre could do is do something that damages the authenticity that drives him.

00:16:22.120 So so I think they're going to be very smart about that.

00:16:24.720 And I think they're going to be very protective of that because it's it's a key selling feature for him.

00:16:30.600 It's why, you know, like I got to tell you, since he won, I've received one Insta.

00:16:35.640 I was there on Saturday night at the Shaw Center in Ottawa when he won.

00:16:38.940 And I posted a photo on my Instagram story of his victory speech.

00:16:43.140 And I heard from one longtime conservative fellow who I know and worked on a campaign with him before, who said, well, I guess I'm going to vote liberal for the first time ever.

00:16:52.680 Well, I've also heard from probably eight or nine folks who I know, but have never been overly political or genuinely excited about having a different approach to politics, a choice, not an echo for a change.

00:17:07.980 So I actually think that it is that differentiation with the Liberal Party.

00:17:11.760 It is that differentiation with Justin Trudeau between, you know, the phony, the phony, the phony actor who has a preference for very racist costumes and Pierre Polyev, who, you know, might not have might be a bit rough around the edges for some's take.

00:17:29.300 But what you see is what you get.

00:17:32.100 And he'll say what he means.

00:17:33.580 It means what he says.

00:17:34.400 All right.

00:17:34.580 Let's pick up on that, though.

00:17:35.620 Justin Trudeau, the racist costumes, because when I I look through my Twitter feed of people who are leftists or centrist, I don't know what they are.

00:17:42.060 One of the big criticisms, and this is not the first time this has been leveled against a conservative candidate, you know, pretty typical that, OK, Justin Trudeau, whatever he's done.

00:17:49.620 Pierre Polyev, he's he's the extremist. 0.93

00:17:51.860 He's the white extremist.

00:17:53.440 They throw all those words in and they're not given any examples, but they're throwing them in.

00:17:56.640 They clearly believe it and they're clearly shopping that around and it's making its way into some newspaper columns and commentary in a non libelous way.

00:18:03.160 They choose their words carefully.

00:18:05.040 Is that something that's going to stick somehow?

00:18:09.180 I don't think it will.

00:18:11.360 I mean, number one, you know, there's just there's no truth to it.

00:18:15.520 So for for for an accusation to be credible, it has to be based in what folks what folks believe.

00:18:22.600 And it's just not credible.

00:18:23.320 It's also the same scare tactics that they've tried before.

00:18:26.100 So, you know, I think about, you know, anyone who actually knows me will be shocked to hear me use a sports analogy.

00:18:31.240 But, you know, you're playing hockey and you get to the net, which I always thought was called buckets until recently.

00:18:38.260 And, you know, you hook right and you fake right and you shoot left and you do that a couple of times.

00:18:43.080 And, you know, you can't keep that trick up.

00:18:44.980 The goalie is going to recognize it.

00:18:46.380 And the voters will also recognize these lies.

00:18:49.120 And so they did with Stephen Harper after the, you know, character assassination against Stockwell Day in 2000 and the character assassination against Stephen Harper in 2004.

00:18:57.720 By 2006, folks are like, this is this is nonsense.

00:19:01.140 This is nonsense.

00:19:02.220 And, you know, I think it's the same thing.

00:19:04.040 The liberal playbook with Scheer and with O'Toole just won't work because it was so fully full of, you know, malarkey that folks are going to wise up to that.

00:19:16.000 And, you know, it's interesting.

00:19:17.200 The narrative about Patrick Brown was that he was the person who almost had a lock on bringing diverse voices, diverse persons into the party.

00:19:25.180 That's what he would bring in this leadership race.

00:19:26.860 I remember I was on a CBC television debate panel talking about this.

00:19:29.960 And I said, I think people have overplayed that with Patrick Brown to a degree and then underplayed the fact that it seems that phenomenon has played out with Pierre.

00:19:39.200 Look, I mean, look, if you look at the right, Pierre did incredibly well in some of the diverse ridings of the country in urban centers.

00:19:46.080 And the GTA, Scarborough, he won every riding in Scarborough, which is heavily diverse, every riding in the field region.

00:19:52.860 Patrick Brown's current hometown of Brampton, won every riding there.

00:19:58.680 He won ridings in suburban Winnipeg, suburban Edmonton, suburban Calgary that are heavily diverse.

00:20:04.760 He certainly had support from a diverse section of members, not just geographically, but speaking from religious and other backgrounds, which is fantastic.

00:20:17.660 I mean, look, Patrick Brown is a legendary organizer and a hustler.

00:20:21.620 And that's how he went from being a fairly unknown member of parliament to leader of the PC party in Ontario before, you know, the drama that occurred that relieved him of that position.

00:20:32.400 But that said, you know, Pierre still sold substantially more memberships than the vaunted organizer, Patrick Brown.

00:20:41.500 So he must know what he is doing.

00:20:44.420 We'll be back with more full comment in just a moment.

00:20:46.580 All right. Speaking of selling new memberships, bring new people into the party, talking about young people being interested in the Pierre-Paulie of campaign, to what degree do you feel that's substantiated?

00:20:58.040 Tell me the numbers, the data behind all of that.

00:21:00.800 Well, you know, I actually don't know one thing with that is, you know, it is for me, it's anecdotal because, you know, the Conservative Party candidate does not have a youth wing.

00:21:08.800 So there's not a designation on your membership form that, you know, I am a youth member paying a youth rate.

00:21:13.880 So, you know, I actually don't know what the breakdown of youth members is.

00:21:17.040 So, but Anna Golding, you look at the crowds he was getting, you know, these were not your typical folks showing up in an Andrew Scheer rally or, you know, the folks showing up to Jean Charest, you know, Tim Horton's meet and greets, you know, with gray hair.

00:21:29.660 These were young parents, young professionals, in many cases, students who were excited, again, about having that choice, not an echo.

00:21:37.920 And so, I mean, anecdotally speaking, you know, absolutely, you know, soft, you know, if you look at, you know, just again, personally, you know, folks I heard from throughout the campaign who are on the younger end of the spectrum,

00:21:51.340 who were excited about something political when they'd never shown interest in politics before, was quite, you know, quite, quite, quite impressive.

00:22:03.560 No, certainly. And, you know, what does that say that young people are getting involved right now?

00:22:09.480 And obviously the party is going to hope to capitalize on that and continue it.

00:22:12.680 It reminds me a little bit about the Trudeau mania stuff that happened in the 2015 election.

00:22:17.360 You know, slightly different things going on there.

00:22:19.820 But I also feel like one of the big changes is that Trudeau's like an older guy now.

00:22:24.740 He doesn't seem quite cool.

00:22:26.840 It seems like, you know, it's like an older demographic now who are most fiercely fighting for him.

00:22:32.280 And Pierre has a bit of the energy of being the hip young guy.

00:22:37.000 Exactly. I mean, one, I mean, the age difference is on that side, but also it's hard to be the voice of change that the future is looking for.

00:22:47.360 When you have been the status quo through three elections.

00:22:50.720 So there's overexposure. There's disappointment.

00:22:53.660 You know, a lot of that 2015, a lot of people think it was chalked up.

00:22:58.640 I think there was a whole lot of reasons it was.

00:23:00.360 But I mean, one of the reasons there was excitement amongst youth and the corresponding increase in their turnout.

00:23:06.600 You know, a lot of folks credit to the cannabis legalization.

00:23:09.400 Well, he did that. Like, what have you done for me lately, bud?

00:23:11.820 And, you know, you have Pierre talking about, you know, I personally don't know of like, I don't know anyone in my circles who were moved to vote because of cannabis legalization.

00:23:23.540 I've heard of folks and I'm sure there are.

00:23:25.380 But, you know, if anyone was willing to vote over that, you got to think folks living at home still or paying rent for a place that's way too small and that are fearful they'll never be able to afford a house will be a bit more inclined to be excited in voting for the guy talking about homeownership and affordability for the first time in a very long time.

00:23:48.280 Well, it is interesting that, you know, Justin Trudeau has kind of become the politician of no in terms of all this killjoy stuff where it's like, no, you can't get on a plane unless you have your fourth booster dose.

00:23:59.020 No, you've got to be fired if you misgender someone. 1.00

00:24:01.380 I know he doesn't have those policies, but he gives off that vibe of being that guy or, you know, we're going to stick it to you with the whatever the fourth carbon tax, whatever he's bringing in.

00:24:08.440 And it's really like this guy really just wants to tell you what to do, tell you how to live, tell you, no, you can't do that.

00:24:14.340 And that's that's both him and his policies and the people who he's kind of surrounding himself with and the people who are attracted to him.

00:24:19.580 And it's like, you guys are kind of such downers like they're just, I don't know, they're not cool these days.

00:24:25.640 Well, and look, I mean, you know, it's similar to the last Ontario election we had where you had Doug Ford proposing a bunch of stuff.

00:24:31.380 And like catnip, the NDP and liberal said, no, no, no.

00:24:34.680 And, you know, folks, we've all had a really hard time through the last couple of years, some of us much worse than others.

00:24:41.080 You know, I'm quite I'm quite lucky personally.

00:24:43.200 But a lot of us, we've all suffered through one way or the other being anxiety, distance, illness, job loss, etc.

00:24:50.560 So we've all gone through this terrible thing, both together and individually.

00:24:54.620 And in the last election in Ontario, you have one guy saying, yes, yes, yes, let's do this, let's do that proposing.

00:25:01.400 And then you have the other just with the negative tone of opposing.

00:25:04.920 And I think that's what you'll also see with Pierre.

00:25:07.000 And I think one thing he just in his speech on Saturday night that the Conservatives just hit the ball out of the park.

00:25:14.680 There is a second sports reference from me in probably a 10 minute span.

00:25:19.000 That was a really easy sports reference.

00:25:20.660 I will say I'm not going to give you marks for that one.

00:25:23.140 And hit the ball out of the park on that.

00:25:26.000 Canadians don't need a government to tell them don't want to go to tell them how to live their lives.

00:25:29.560 They want a government that can run a passport off.

00:25:31.400 And, you know, just such a beautiful, stinging insult on the incompetence that we're seeing in Ottawa.

00:25:39.660 I mean, it was, I think, just a great line and very, very true to where folks' heads are right now.

00:25:44.820 Well, Michael, question for you then.

00:25:47.340 Where is conservatism in general heading in Canada, the English speaking world, the Western world?

00:25:54.340 Because I know you're a great student of American politics, American conservatism, a great history buff.

00:25:59.240 What are you seeing going on kind of generally right now when it's, whether it's Pierre Polyev or anybody else talking about the elites, talking about the gatekeepers?

00:26:07.240 I mean, there's momentum behind all of that.

00:26:11.900 What does it mean?

00:26:13.120 Where's it going?

00:26:14.240 Look, it's disruption and it's disruption from the status quo, which is exciting.

00:26:18.460 So, you know, in Ontario, the Press Conservative Party won a massive re-election with a, for that party, a very atypical electoral coalition and a very atypical voter pool.

00:26:31.300 By, you know, talking about things like, you know, dignity and rights for workers, which I think is actually a good conservative value.

00:26:40.240 And there might be folks who disagree with that, but I think, you know, they're not looking where politics is yelling.

00:26:44.380 So, you know, it's the age of disruption in the conservative part, in the conservative movements.

00:26:48.720 And in some places that can be quite bad, you know, I am personally not, you know, not a fan of the former president of the United States, who seems to have hijacked the Republican Party, which certainly had flaws and problems that needed to be addressed.

00:27:02.580 But if you look what, you know, what the Press Conservatives have done in Ontario, other conservative parties in Canada that have managed to win atypical, you know, Tim Houston and the Press Conservative Party of Nova Scotia winning an election on health care, which used to be, you know, something that conservatives were scared to talk about because there was no votes for them there.

00:27:21.280 It's the age of disruption in conservatism.

00:27:24.640 And I think, you know, with Pierre, that's going to mean a recommitment to conservative values with a very smart political strategy of contextualizing it to issues that are facing the electorate today, not four years ago.

00:27:43.200 One of the big attacks against conservative leaders, rightly or wrongly, is always an attempt to create a secret agenda, usually hidden SOCON agenda.

00:27:51.280 I think Justin Trudeau and others were very giddy about the Roe versus Wade thing down south of the border, because then they could fundraise off at fearmonger, it's going to happen here.

00:27:59.020 And, you know, Stephen Harper had the secret agenda, and he didn't even bring it in during the majority.

00:28:02.760 So, so secret that I guess he didn't even know about it.

00:28:05.540 They did the same stuff with Andrew Scheer, couldn't really do it with Aaron O'Toole.

00:28:09.980 And now with Pierre, something that they're amplifying a fair bit at the end of his speeches, he's really making it clear, doesn't matter who you love.

00:28:16.900 That's the thing he's saying a lot, and doesn't matter whether your name is.

00:28:19.360 And then he says names that are clearly persons of different background and heritage.

00:28:24.140 So he's not overly emphasizing, hamming up the way Trudeau is like, hey, did you hear I'm a feminist?

00:28:29.560 Did you hear I'm a feminist? 1.00

00:28:30.240 Let me talk about it nonstop.

00:28:31.260 You know, oh my God, guys, this is getting creepy kind of thing.

00:28:33.060 But Pierre's still putting those pieces there for people.

00:28:36.520 Yeah, look, I mean, I think that, you know, and I will take, you know, there's been different types of hidden agendas that have been levied against conservatives.

00:28:46.000 So Stephen Harper had the whole host of it, and Andrew Scheer had it on social conservative issues.

00:28:50.900 And Aaron O'Toole definitely, I think, had it on firearms issues.

00:28:54.420 And he fed right into that with some of the flip-flops.

00:28:57.400 You know, if you revise your platform when it's out, it obviously, it will be cause for concern.

00:29:03.460 I think Pierre benefits from being so concise and so clear on these various issues that there's, you know, it will be very hard to brand him as something he's not because he's been so bold at being branded at what he is.

00:29:17.000 And, you know, he joined us on this podcast earlier this year, I guess the day he announced his leadership run.

00:29:25.040 And I think his very first line on the podcast was, I support the truckers.

00:29:30.680 And this was during the convoy.

00:29:32.100 It was like, wow, you know, you don't have to beat around the bush.

00:29:34.640 I'm not doing that follow-up.

00:29:35.900 Okay, but what's the actual position?

00:29:37.340 Because they're giving the talking points.

00:29:38.440 I mean, there was a lot of clarity there.

00:29:39.620 And he made it clear where he stood on that issue.

00:29:42.100 Exactly.

00:29:42.520 And you know what?

00:29:42.960 You can disagree with him, but you know where he stands.

00:29:47.000 And I think, you know, there's a lot of folks who appreciate that.

00:29:49.940 You know, I remember working on a campaign here in Ontario in 2007.

00:29:58.180 And Dalton McGinty was when he was reelected for the first time.

00:30:01.480 But we had a fellow come into the campaign office to take a sign.

00:30:05.540 He said he's not a conservative, but he misses Harris.

00:30:08.400 He's going to vote for it because he misses Harris because, you know, he put a plan out.

00:30:11.820 It was written exactly what he would do.

00:30:13.660 And then he went ahead and did it.

00:30:15.060 And he misses that.

00:30:17.000 And, you know, the distrust between government and the electorate is very concerning because, you know, you have all these politicians lecturing about, you know, the loss of trust between our public institutions.

00:30:29.680 When they break, when they break their word time and again, you see Justin Trudeau, you know, there hasn't been a commitment.

00:30:38.480 He hasn't been willing to walk back.

00:30:40.360 And he lectures us on loss of faith in public institutions.

00:30:45.520 Like, you know, like find a better spokesperson, fellow.

00:30:48.080 But if you look at politicians who actually go out and they're clear, you know, Rob Ford was a very clear politician.

00:30:56.400 He went out, said what he'd do.

00:30:57.860 He went and did it.

00:30:58.760 You know, and it didn't matter if you like him or not.

00:31:01.520 Unless you were living under a rock in Toronto, you knew what he stood for, why he was doing it and what he believed and what he did.

00:31:09.140 And, you know, Mike Harris is another great example.

00:31:11.600 And I think we'll see Pierre be much more like that, which is great because, you know, even for those who don't like what he does, the restoration of trust.

00:31:21.300 If we believe trust in public institutions is important, like Justin Trudeau, electors us that we should, politicians who keep their word seems to me to be a very good starting point.

00:31:34.060 One of the leadership races I reflect on a lot is one that wasn't, that never followed through, which was the Kevin O'Leary conservative leadership race.

00:31:40.840 And as you know, polling had showed that he would have won the race likely on the first ballot with a majority.

00:31:46.160 And the general election polling showed that he stood a pretty darn good chance of becoming prime minister as well.

00:31:52.240 Who knows what would have happened in the interim.

00:31:54.240 But then I guess one of the reported reasons why he bowed out was it finally dawned on him that, oh, I become leader.

00:31:59.960 And then I sit at Stornoway for like two years, kind of twiddling my thumbs.

00:32:05.260 That's not who I am.

00:32:06.560 That's not the life that I lead, acknowledging that those are almost like two lost years in the hinterlands.

00:32:12.060 Because on that note, let's say Pierre Pauliev has to wait 18 months at least.

00:32:17.860 What happens in that time?

00:32:20.260 Because workaday politics, which he knows well, he's been an MP for many years.

00:32:24.800 What do they do?

00:32:25.860 Do they just, do they keep going at this intensity level?

00:32:29.640 You know, writing the headlines, as you said, seizing on all the issues.

00:32:32.660 Do they lay low?

00:32:33.540 Because we all know that, you know, what really matters is just that, that whatever it is, five week election period time.

00:32:40.320 What would you recommend?

00:32:41.580 What do you anticipate?

00:32:43.260 Oh, look, I think, you know, he's going to need more than a five week election time.

00:32:46.840 You know, the party, for example, you know, there's, I think, some basic political infrastructure that needs to be, needs to be rebuilt.

00:32:53.360 And they are going to get it, go ahead, and they're going to hopefully have the time to do that.

00:32:57.080 Which I think the last leader, to fairness to him, did not have, did not have the runway he needed because of that snap election.

00:33:04.500 So, you know, there's some very basic fundamentals about modernizing the Conservative Party of Canada,

00:33:08.940 which I think they're going to want to, they should want to look at.

00:33:12.740 I think that, you know, Pierre, well, I believe operate nearly at the same intensity that he currently is.

00:33:19.200 Because, you know, every day that he's out on an issue, every day that the voter pool for him grows,

00:33:25.620 and the list of identified likely supporters during an election grows,

00:33:30.520 and those are all important opportunities that I do not believe he will waste or squander.

00:33:36.600 Work ethic is not an issue with this guy.

00:33:39.080 So I think that's all important.

00:33:40.320 And I think you do raise an interesting point about, you know, if one of the reasons O'Leary pulled out was that, you know,

00:33:46.180 why do I want to run to be leader of the opposition?

00:33:47.780 It's a great point.

00:33:48.500 You know, folks often ask me why, you know, in New York City, you've got a guy like Michael Bloomberg run for mayor.

00:33:57.640 And, you know, if you look at Illinois, they have one of the CEOs, one of the family members,

00:34:03.640 the founders of the Hyatt Hotel chain, who is their current governor and, you know, ran to be governor.

00:34:09.740 And why don't we get folks like that in Canada?

00:34:12.840 You know, in those offices, you know, you run, you win, you have your job, you lose your back and your wonderful life.

00:34:20.680 I mean, in Canada, one of the worst jobs that I can imagine is being leader of the opposition.

00:34:25.920 You know, you're fighting every day.

00:34:28.720 You have limited power.

00:34:29.800 The government's trying to embarrass you each and every way.

00:34:32.740 Caucus management is a nightmare because you're not in government.

00:34:35.720 Nobody's happy.

00:34:36.600 You don't have real perks to give to people.

00:34:38.460 So it is a tough job.

00:34:40.940 I understand why folks from outside of politics don't want it.

00:34:43.760 Luckily, you know, I think Pierre is going to be very well equipped to do the job well.

00:34:47.020 But hopefully for his sake and ours, it's for a very short time that he's doing that job.

00:34:52.840 Michael Diamond, really interesting conversation.

00:34:55.220 We really appreciate your analysis.

00:34:56.680 Thank you for stopping by, sir.

00:34:58.760 Thanks for having me.

00:34:59.780 Full Comment is a post-media podcast.

00:35:02.080 I'm Anthony Fury.

00:35:03.200 This episode was produced by Andre Pru with theme music by Bryce Hall.

00:35:06.780 Kevin Libin is the executive producer.

00:35:09.660 You can subscribe to Full Comment on Apple Podcasts, Google, Spotify, and Amazon Music.

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00:35:21.340 Thanks for listening.

Full Comment - September 19, 2022

Poilievre turns conservatism into ‘a choice, not an echo’

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