Scott Moe has been in politics in Saskatchewan for a long time. He s been premier of the province for 5 years, and is coming up on 5 years of being in office. In this episode, we talk about his life growing up in a small town in Saskatchewan, how he got into politics, and why he thinks Western Canada is a vital part of the federation.
00:01:17.520I want to get your thoughts on where Western Canada fits, specifically Saskatchewan.
00:01:25.140But how did you get involved in politics?
00:01:28.980For me, specifically, how I got involved in politics was I really started volunteering with a number of community sports areas where my kids were involved.
00:01:41.080And it very soon grew to be beyond just the community I lived into, you know, volunteering more at a regional level.
00:01:48.060And it wasn't too long before I felt I wanted to do a little bit more and actually advance to the provincial level.
00:01:56.560And so then I ran in a nomination and ultimately in an election, became an MLA in 2011.
00:02:02.460And kind of slowly progressed, I guess, into cabinet and ultimately to this position.
00:02:10.800Fairly quick ascension from an MLA in 2011 to Premier in 2018.
00:03:16.240And two, ultimately, to have the opportunity to raise our children there.
00:03:19.160And that is what drives me and what I do each and every day is to, you know, provide that opportunity for the children that are here today and coming tomorrow.
00:03:29.020Give them the opportunity to actually choose to stay in the province of Saskatchewan as opposed to have, you know, a generation behind them telling them to go west.
00:03:38.920Well, you know how many connections I have to Saskatchewan and working with people, helping start a news network with people from there.
00:05:04.820It's still, I think, when I visit, whether it's Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Alberta, lesser degree, British Columbia, that sentiment is still there.
00:05:24.220People that had been in the federal government helped form a party to run federally called Maverick to say they wanted out kind of a separatist party.
00:05:33.440Where are things at in your sense where you sit?
00:05:36.620Yeah, I think there's two levels to this.
00:05:39.580And the first is, you know, is first of all, the cartoon is very relevant today.
00:05:45.080And I think it expresses the frustration that many in Saskatchewan, Alberta, and in other areas of Western Canada have as well.
00:05:52.540A little over 100 years old and odd that it's still relevant.
00:05:56.060And unfortunate, I would say that it's still relevant because it doesn't need to be.
00:05:59.960And I think many will, you know, look at that cartoon of that cow eating in the Western part of our nation and then the milk being harvested in the Eastern part of our nation.
00:06:10.880We'll quickly refer to the challenges around equalization, for example, and how that transfer happens.
00:06:20.120One is when it comes to separation and people that talk about separating from Canada.
00:06:26.200And we can talk about that a little bit later because often people will lead to Quebec is the province that has ultimately had a referendum on separation.
00:06:37.580Saskatchewan actually looked at it as well back in 1995, and I'll circle around that to maybe in a little bit.
00:06:42.960But I don't think that separation solves any of the challenges that people see in Western Canada.
00:06:48.060And I don't think it's realistic for those folks that are realistic in their thoughts about it.
00:06:54.600Separation doesn't gain us access to ports.
00:06:57.100Separation doesn't really gain us what people think it will.
00:07:01.200And so I don't think it's a realistic option.
00:07:03.340However, there is much frustration that is expressed in that cartoon.
00:07:06.700And I would say that the next step that people will discuss is equalization and the fact that dollars flow often from a place like Alberta to a place like Quebec and the sensitivities around that.
00:07:20.820And we feel those in Saskatchewan as well being a contributor for the last 15 years.
00:07:29.700But I think it's even deeper than that.
00:07:31.180What the challenge we have today in this country and the frustration that that cartoon signifies is we feel in Saskatchewan, we have a growing and vibrant economy.
00:07:45.280And I think the same is true in Alberta and Manitoba and likely true in other parts of the nation as well.
00:07:50.160Our economy in Saskatchewan is based on the development of our natural resources and then doing what we can to climb that value chain.
00:07:57.940We feel a lot of pressure from the federal government and sometimes I think in fairness from other areas of Canada in not being able to fully develop those industries which create wealth, which create jobs, which create opportunity for people that live in Saskatchewan communities.
00:08:15.440We need to celebrate that as Canadians.
00:08:18.460We need to celebrate the investment, for example, of the largest mining company in the world, BHP, making a significant investment in Saskatchewan.
00:08:26.840It'll be the cleanest potash in this case that'll be produced anywhere in the world and it'll be putting Saskatchewan people to work.
00:08:35.240We need to celebrate that across Canada as all Canadians in the same way.
00:08:41.580We in Saskatchewan, I would say, when there's an electric vehicle manufacturing plant that is announced in Ontario or even a parts manufacturing plant that is announced in Quebec,
00:08:52.200that's good for the folks in Ontario, it's good for the folks in Quebec, but I would say indirectly it's also good for the broader Canadian economy and thereby good for all Canadians.
00:09:02.620And we need to get back to supporting one another across this nation, being excited for one another when we succeed,
00:09:10.460as opposed to, you know, some of the comments that we've maybe been hearing lately and quite frankly,
00:09:16.900some of the comments I think Christy Clark really put forward quite succinctly in a recent video that she did.
00:09:24.100Well, I want to pause there and play those comments.
00:09:28.140Former Liberal Premier of Quebec, of British Columbia, Christy Clark, was at an investment conference in Vancouver at the end of January.
00:09:36.100And I'd never heard her speak about the sense of alienation that's felt.
00:09:44.040And so let's play a little clip of that right now.
00:09:46.720My dad used to say, you know, thing about Canada is, is Quebec always wants out and Alberta always wants in.
00:09:56.560You know, British Columbia just sits on the sidelines and is sort of happy with where we're at.
00:10:00.680We're not paying that much attention to what goes on on the other side of the Rockies.
00:10:04.320I never thought I would see the day when Alberta would go from being passionately Canadian and wanting in,
00:10:14.220really fighting for a way in, to trying to find a way to get out.
00:10:19.800And that speaks to, Jay, I think, the intense sense of alienation that people in Saskatchewan and Alberta are feeling now.
00:10:28.440Premier Moshe, your former colleague, Premier Clark, she was talking about this, this sense that what you do, it doesn't get valued in other parts of Canada.
00:10:40.740And that because that is what people do for a living, they feel like they're not being valued by the country.
00:10:47.020Is that a, is that a sentiment that you hear a lot as you travel your province?
00:10:51.520Yes, and it comes out as a frustration, sometimes as anger.
00:10:55.820But more importantly, for all of us to consider, I think it comes out as, is really, in many ways, dividing our country.
00:11:03.160And it starts at the very, at the very top.
00:11:05.960If you go on, and I encourage everyone to listen to the full half hour or so that former Premier Christy Clark spoke on there.
00:11:13.980You know, she talks about what binds us together as Canadians.
00:11:16.480What, you know, what are we proud of collectively as Canadians?
00:11:20.360And, and she talks about the strength of our, our natural resource-based economy in the Western areas and the strength of our manufacturing economy in places like Ontario and Quebec.
00:11:29.080And the fact that we need to get back to being, you know, proud of one another, binding together as Canadians and being proud of this nation as a whole.
00:11:49.300And I think they very much portray the feeling of, of, you know, many people that work in a, in a, in a wealth producing, a vibrant, natural resource-based economy in not only the Western part of our nation, but in many areas of our nation.
00:12:13.560But the, the mustard seed that would be grown in your province would be shipped east to Hamilton, processed at GS Dunn, shipped to France, turned into a high-end margarine or high-end mustard.
00:12:25.860I wish we, you know, made more of the high-end stuff here, but grown in Sask, processed in Hamilton and the world's finest Dijon mustard, you know, is the end result.
00:12:36.460Well, that's a country working together.
00:12:38.200When you get a big potash announcement, like you did with BHP or Alberta gets a new oil sands development going.
00:12:48.060Well, that's more work for the people that make the trucks that are going to be used, the machinery that's going to be used.
00:12:53.780That sometimes just the trucks that we bought by the men and women were working in the project.
00:13:00.600Do you think that we look at that as Canadians the way that we should?
00:13:06.600Do you think that, or do you just think that, you know, us Central Canadian you-know-whats don't think about and value Western Canada?
00:13:16.460I don't know, you know, that's a hard question to answer, because I'm not going to preclude what, you know, other Canadians think or try to guess as to what other Canadians think.
00:13:29.980However, what I do look for is, you know, how do we make this relationship in this nation, and I would even go so far as to say this continent, successful.
00:13:40.660And we really need to get away from some of our, you know, regionalistic biases that we have, and we have them in Saskatchewan.
00:13:51.820I have them, and I've been at the likely very center of a number of discussions where they've been, you know, somewhat in conflict.
00:14:02.340I said Saskatchewan's been, and I have been somewhat in conflict of the direction that our federal government has gone on a number of spaces.
00:14:10.660But we need to get back to being Canadians first.
00:14:14.280We need to be back, get back to celebrating successes in other parts of Canada.
00:14:19.900But we also need to get back to a place where we're supporting the development of those successes across our nation, and I would even say across our continent.
00:14:28.920If we don't have our best interests in mind as Canadians and as North Americans, someone else has an interest in the natural resources, for example, in North America, and they may not have our national or our continental best interests in mind by any stretch.
00:14:44.820And so we need to get back to supporting one another, not only in our successes, but in the development of those successes, and understanding what it is that actually drives the health and wealth of our communities across this nation.
00:14:57.440The natural resources do drive our success in attracting investment, creating jobs, and then climbing that value chain in much of the western part of this nation, including the western part of Ontario.
00:15:10.000When you get into the manufacturing sector, you know, that is more the eastern part of Ontario and moving into Quebec.
00:15:18.700Again, trading much throughout the United States in that industry as well.
00:15:25.920And we need to support one another as Canadians to be successful ultimately as a nation.
00:15:31.000And I would say that this starts with federal leadership as provinces, as, you know, people living in different parts of Canada.
00:15:40.000We're always going to have our differences.
00:15:41.480But I would say, you know, what binds us together is much larger than what separates us.
00:15:49.680And we need to focus on, you know, what actually does bind us together and have a little bit of, as you say, the missing key at some, the feeling is, is that there is at times some respect that is missing for, you know, certain industries that are in their own right are highly successful.
00:16:09.300Creating, as I say, creating jobs and wealth for families living in communities across this nation.
00:16:16.160But, you know, in the case of what we produce in Saskatchewan, we produce the cleanest products that you can find on earth, no matter if it's oil, potash, uranium, agricultural products, whatever it might be.
00:16:26.960They are among the very cleanest that you can find and purchase on earth.
00:16:30.940And we always say, if you, if you need more oil or if you need more natural gas or uranium or potash or agri-food products, you should actually buy it from Saskatchewan.
00:16:39.260If you care at all about the environment, because it's cleaner than like products that are produced in Russia, Belarus, or any of our competitors, really.
00:16:47.800I want to ask you more about those industries, because I don't think people realize how diversified your economy is.
00:16:53.800But first, let me ask you about, you mentioned leadership, federal leadership.
00:17:00.700I've noted you and your friend, Ontario Premier Doug Ford, taking turns at being Captain Canada over the last little while.
00:17:09.900But before I leave the alienation part of it, I want to ask you, do you ever have to manage within your own caucus,
00:17:16.800because the Saskatchewan party, of which your leader, is a coalition.
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00:22:40.940Premier Scott Moe, is that a sovereignty act like we've heard from Alberta?
00:22:45.540Is it a separatist piece of legislation?
00:22:47.640Is it unconstitutional as some columnists in the Globe and Mail might surmise?
00:22:53.500Well, first and foremost, I would say, Brian, the Saskatchewan First Act is a shield.
00:22:58.380It's a shield to really protect Saskatchewan opportunity for this generation and the next from a sword that is being wielded.
00:23:06.980And generally by the federal government and generally using federal environmental policy to circumvent the constitution that we have.
00:23:15.900In particular, where the constitution allows for and gives the power of natural resource development to the provinces.
00:23:25.320The federal government is moving in on that space using environmental policy.
00:23:30.340Again, I would refer back to my words about how that has worked in the European Union over the last decade or decade and a half.
00:23:36.200So that's why we have put together the Saskatchewan First Act is to shield our opportunity, to shield the ability for the province to grow our natural resource investment and ultimately to grow the jobs and population and follow the growth agenda that we have here in this province.
00:23:56.500It's not a separatist piece of legislation by any stretch, actually, and it is entirely constitutional.
00:24:03.460As a matter of fact, what the Saskatchewan First Act does is two things.
00:24:08.640One, it will provide for a tribunal to determine when there is a new policy that is brought into place.
00:24:14.620For example, if we had had it in place when the carbon tax was introduced, this tribunal would make some assessments as to what the economic impact or the economic harm of that policy will be to Saskatchewan industry and Saskatchewan people.
00:24:30.180Nobody has done that on these environmental policies that have been brought in by the federal government over the course of the last few years.
00:24:37.300We will now be doing that in Saskatchewan and two, what the Saskatchewan First Act does is provide for a reaffirming of the constitutional right that the province has, and in this case, the province of Saskatchewan has, to develop and grow our natural resource industry.
00:24:53.480So two things that it does, it's a shield, it's not a sword, and it is really reconfirming what is already in the constitution, making it entirely constitutional, and in no way is about Saskatchewan seceding or moving out of the nation of Canada or out of the confederation.
00:25:11.200In fact, we believe that a strong, growing, and healthy Saskatchewan actually contributes to a strong, growing, and healthy nation of Canada.
00:25:19.440How does it differ from what we've heard about Alberta's Sovereignty Act?
00:25:29.440One, I think there's a few changes that have been made to the Alberta Act, but a few differences in, for example, who would be, I think the Alberta Act is more about whether or not they're going to actually follow federal legislation.
00:25:45.180What we are putting in place is that the federal legislation actually has to follow the constitution, and so it's a reverse onus, if you will, in Saskatchewan, as opposed to not following what the federal government might implement in a piece of legislation.
00:26:02.660What we're saying is the federal legislation actually has to be proved constitutional before it applies in the province of Saskatchewan.
00:26:10.180There was a bill passed a few years ago, Bill C-69.
00:26:14.540It was dubbed by many the No More Pipelines Act, but we're finding out that it goes way, way beyond pipelines.
00:26:22.980This is the environmental impact assessment situation.
00:26:27.940It is being used by the federal government to try and micromanage even housing in Ontario.
00:26:35.280They have put forward that they may come in and try and stop housing from being built on certain lands.
00:26:45.180They've talked about blocking highways and other infrastructure.
00:26:50.380Do you think that the federal government is trying to use environmental legislation to take over areas of provincial and even municipal planning?
00:27:09.860This is where the frustration comes into play.
00:27:12.540And yes, Bill C-69 is dubbed the No More Pipelines Bill, but it has impact on municipal development, residential development.
00:27:20.300It has impact on industrial development as well.
00:27:24.040We are dealing with Bill C-69, for example, on a natural gas-fired facility to generate power that we're building in the province of Saskatchewan today, walking through all that Bill C-69 has.
00:27:39.320That gas facility is there to provide our baseload power to back up to 700 megawatts of renewable power that we're also building at the very same time.
00:27:50.420And so Bill C-69 is one, quite frankly, that needs to go.
00:27:55.400So are they trying to stop the natural gas plant from being built?
00:28:05.780I think the clean electricity standard is going to try to do that by 2035.
00:28:10.200So there is legislation that will be in place to do just that.
00:28:15.340But I don't think Bill C-69 is doing that.
00:28:17.680How can they try and stop electricity generation?
00:28:22.260Bill, the clean electricity standard, some of the discussion around what that will look like will actually be to prevent, to ban fossil fuel electricity generation by the year 2035.
00:28:33.500So, you know, what does that mean to people that live in Saskatoon who get all of their power from the Queen Elizabeth or Queen Charlotte, the natural gas power station here in Saskatoon is January 1st, 2036, pretty cold day in Saskatoon, inside or outside of your house.
00:28:52.660And so it's just an unrealistic piece of policy, like Bill C-69 is also an unrealistic piece of policy, is using environmental policy to really hinder the development of natural resources, both in Alberta, Saskatchewan, and I would say even in other areas of Canada as well, as it goes far beyond the energy industry.
00:29:17.080Before I moved to Quebec and worked there for a couple of years covering politics, I was always thinking, why is Quebec always fighting the federal government?
00:29:27.740Quebec, they're just whining, let the federal government do what they want.
00:29:31.480And then I moved to Quebec and you start understanding the fight and it's often the federal government back in the late 90s, early 2000s, the federal government was meddling in all kinds of provincial jurisdictions.
00:29:43.800That's what they seem to be doing here as well.
00:29:47.360Is that what drives a lot of what we started the discussion about?
00:29:51.120People feeling upset with central Canada because the federal government is trying to tell you what's best for Sask?
00:30:00.220Yeah, I don't even know if it's, it'll be labeled sometimes as central Canada.
00:30:04.360I think it's more targeted towards the federal government and some of the policies that are stymieing our growth, to put it very bluntly.
00:30:15.020And, you know, it's funny you mentioned Quebec, who has had a, you know, a very tumultuous relationship with the federal government,
00:30:23.920up to and including not even signing the constitution that we all, you know, reference and we've referenced and reaffirmed in the Saskatchewan First Act.
00:30:32.580But if you remember back, Brian, in 1995, we're talking about this just prior to you coming on.
00:30:39.880In 1995 was, I believe that was the year that Quebec actually had the referendum.
00:30:44.480And, you know, so here's a skill testing question for you.
00:30:47.320And I don't know if there's more than this, but there's at least two provinces that actually actively looked at separation in and around that time in 1995.
00:31:15.620But it was Roy Romano of the day who had actually put together a special task force, a secret task force.
00:31:22.240It was under, in government terms, it was hidden under the title of constitutional contingency.
00:31:28.720So looking at what should Saskatchewan do if there is a separation, a vote to separate in Quebec.
00:31:36.420And there was really three things that this committee was asked to look into.
00:31:40.700And the first was for Saskatchewan, should Saskatchewan then separate from Canada?
00:31:45.520The second was, should Saskatchewan join with Alberta and British Columbia and leave Canada as a block?
00:31:53.460And the third contingency was, should Saskatchewan actually look at seceding and being part of the United States of America?
00:31:59.780And so it was around that time of the Quebec referendum that it was actually Roy Romano, an NDP premier in Saskatchewan,
00:32:07.300that had put together a constitutional contingency secret committee to look at what should Saskatchewan's response be should Quebec leave the nation of Canada?
00:32:16.900And so there's just a little tidbit of history that I don't think everyone is aware of.
00:32:21.720We're not looking at leaving Canada today.
00:32:24.460However, we are looking at being a strong, vibrant, autonomous province within the nation of Canada.
00:32:31.080And we believe that will allow Saskatchewan to grow and prosper and contribute to a stronger and more prosperous nation.
00:32:39.520Do you think Canadians across the board need to know more about their constitution and who's in charge of what?
00:32:46.360Or does that just make eyes glaze over for people that aren't political geeks like you and I?
00:32:53.820I don't know that Canadians need to, you know, we live in, we're so fortunate to live in a democracy that we do where we don't have some of the challenges that we're seeing in Eastern Europe, for example, or other areas of the world.
00:33:09.300And one of the luxuries of living in a settled, fairly stable regulatory environment like Canada is you don't have to, you know, keep up to date on what's happening politically and how that might impact you personally each and every day of your life.
00:33:28.000That being said, we do need to engage in who I think should be much more careful on intruding, essentially on the spirit and the wording of the constitution is the current federal administration.
00:33:43.420Their efforts using environmental policies like Bill C-69 to really impede on areas of provincial jurisdiction, Stephen Harper didn't do this, John Crescent didn't do this, Paul Martin didn't do this, prime ministers of all stripes did not do what the federal government is doing today.
00:34:02.180And that is using federal policy, federal environmental policy all too often to really intrude and impede in what our provincial areas of jurisdiction laid out quite succinctly in the constitution.
00:34:14.040That's why you're seeing acts like the Saskatchewan First Act.
00:34:17.180That's why you're seeing Alberta come forward with their Sovereignty Act.
00:35:33.960And, you know, our Council of Federation table has grown closer, I would say, over the course of the last number of years.
00:35:41.100And, you know, specifically to the health talks, credit to John Horgan, the previous Premier of British Columbia, not of my political stripe.
00:35:48.880And I tell him that every time I see him.
00:35:52.260But we work very closely with John Horgan where we had, you know, an issue that was aligned.
00:35:58.340And I think that's what people expect their leaders to do, is we may not agree on everything in this great nation and from, you know, vast nation that we have.
00:36:09.500And we shouldn't expect to agree on everything in the same way, as we mentioned earlier, in our caucus, we don't always agree on everything.
00:36:15.640But that doesn't mean that we can't find points of agreement, and it doesn't mean we can't move forward together where those points of agreement are.
00:36:22.760The most recent health discussions most certainly were one of those points of agreement among all provincial leaders had been, you know,
00:36:31.740we had had some asks in place for about two years that we finally were able to sit down with the Prime Minister on.
00:36:38.840And, you know, that's the Canadian way, is to work through your differences, find your points of agreement, and let's move forward on those.
00:36:49.600And, you know, the points of disagreement, they'll still be there.
00:36:53.420We can, I always say, we need to get back to being able to disagree without being disagreeable.
00:36:59.040And that's an important thing, I think, for, you know, all generations to remember, is just because you disagree with someone or a group doesn't make them bad.
00:37:09.520It means you don't disagree on that point, and you shouldn't judge, you know, the person, the group, the movement on the fact that you might not agree on every point.
00:37:18.600We as Canadians agree on far more than we disagree on.
00:37:22.520And I think Christy Clark had mentioned this as well, is that at the federal leadership level, you need somebody, and here's my prediction,
00:37:29.840the person that wins the next federal election will be the person that steps forward and says, this is what Canadians can be proud of.
00:37:39.000Yes, we don't agree on everything, but this matters to all Canadians, and we should all be proud of it, this, collectively.
00:37:45.700Whoever comes up with that, I think will be the next Prime Minister of this nation, and deserves to be.
00:37:53.060I always hear people arguing and describing those they disagree with politically as evil, and I try and remind people, no, they're not evil, they're just wrong.
00:38:02.920And we're all Canadians in the end, right?
00:38:05.420Scott Moth, thanks so much, and all the best to you, yours, and your province.
00:38:11.120Hey, thanks, Brian, and all the best to all your listeners and to all of the people, not only in Ontario, but across this nation of Canada that we know and love from coast to coast to coast.