Full Comment - Saskatchewan raises a shield to stop Justin Trudeau’s intrusions

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00:00:20.020 Does the West want in? Does the West want out?

00:00:23.460 Is Western Canada a vital part of the Federation?

00:00:25.860 A forgotten child left off to the side.

00:00:29.620 That's been an ongoing debate for many years now.

00:00:32.900 Hello, I'm Brian Lilly, your host for the Full Comment podcast.

00:00:36.620 And before we get to our next guest, who will be able to answer a lot of this and take us in a deep conversation,

00:00:42.280 I want to remind you to please subscribe to Full Comment, whether it's on Apple Music, on Google, on Spotify,

00:00:50.920 wherever you get your podcasts, make sure you hit the subscribe button and leave a comment.

00:00:55.980 It always helps us out.

00:00:56.940 So, back to Western Canada and its place within Canada's confederation.

00:01:02.480 Scott Moe is someone who's been intimately involved in politics in that province for a long time.

00:01:07.380 He's been Premier now for, what is it, Premier Moe?

00:01:10.500 Is it five years, six years?

00:01:12.140 You're coming up on five.

00:01:13.780 Five years this past January.

00:01:16.060 Five years this past January.

00:01:17.520 I want to get your thoughts on where Western Canada fits, specifically Saskatchewan.

00:01:25.140 But how did you get involved in politics?

00:01:28.980 For me, specifically, how I got involved in politics was I really started volunteering with a number of community sports areas where my kids were involved.

00:01:41.080 And it very soon grew to be beyond just the community I lived into, you know, volunteering more at a regional level.

00:01:48.060 And it wasn't too long before I felt I wanted to do a little bit more and actually advance to the provincial level.

00:01:56.560 And so then I ran in a nomination and ultimately in an election, became an MLA in 2011.

00:02:02.460 And kind of slowly progressed, I guess, into cabinet and ultimately to this position.

00:02:10.800 Fairly quick ascension from an MLA in 2011 to Premier in 2018.

00:02:17.380 So well done.

00:02:18.960 Were you in agriculture like so many in Saskatchewan before that?

00:02:22.520 Or were you in a different one?

00:02:23.420 Yeah, I spent some time in the ag industry as well as in private retail businesses.

00:02:28.120 A few that myself and my wife also had.

00:02:31.220 We both were raised in a typical small town, Saskatchewan, a town of about 1,500 with a neighboring community of about 40,000.

00:02:39.220 And then ultimately Saskatoon a little further away at, you know, close to 300,000.

00:02:44.260 And so, you know, very typical upbringing in the province of Saskatchewan.

00:02:47.760 Always, I think, interested in whether you knew it or not.

00:02:50.440 You're interested in politics.

00:02:52.260 Growing up for me, unfortunately, in our province, we had, you know, many of my friends, they moved west, right?

00:02:59.460 And the saying was, go west, young man.

00:03:02.560 And I did for a couple of years as well.

00:03:05.600 I was fortunate to return to the community where I was raised to raise our children.

00:03:09.500 And, you know, it's never lost on me how fortunate both my wife and I were.

00:03:14.780 One, to be raised there.

00:03:16.240 And two, ultimately, to have the opportunity to raise our children there.

00:03:19.160 And that is what drives me and what I do each and every day is to, you know, provide that opportunity for the children that are here today and coming tomorrow.

00:03:29.020 Give them the opportunity to actually choose to stay in the province of Saskatchewan as opposed to have, you know, a generation behind them telling them to go west.

00:03:38.920 Well, you know how many connections I have to Saskatchewan and working with people, helping start a news network with people from there.

00:03:49.160 And so many were there.

00:03:50.900 I remember speaking to one of our camera ops, camera techs, who was based in Calgary.

00:03:56.400 And he was also originally from Saskatchewan.

00:04:00.060 I forget where exactly.

00:04:01.180 But he said his local Canadian tire in Calgary sold more riders gear than they did for the Stampeders.

00:04:10.940 That's how many people used to go west.

00:04:14.400 And it's turned around.

00:04:16.560 Well, you could go to a hometown game in Calgary.

00:04:21.560 You could go to a hometown CFL riders game there generally and still can today.

00:04:27.240 So there was a famous cartoon published about 100 years ago called The Milk Cow.

00:04:35.720 I know you're familiar with it, but for people who haven't seen it, it's a drawing of a cow being fed and eating in Western Canada.

00:04:45.760 And all the all the works being done in Western Canada, getting the feed to the cow.

00:04:49.860 But it's being milked in the east.

00:04:52.080 And it was an expression of Western alienation in 1915.

00:04:56.500 I mean, that's 10 years after your province became a province and became part of Confederation.

00:05:02.640 And that was the sentiment there.

00:05:04.820 It's still, I think, when I visit, whether it's Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Alberta, lesser degree, British Columbia, that sentiment is still there.

00:05:15.400 And it ebbs and flows.

00:05:17.260 Where is it at right now?

00:05:18.940 A little while ago, we were talking about Wexit.

00:05:21.340 I don't hear about that as much.

00:05:24.220 People that had been in the federal government helped form a party to run federally called Maverick to say they wanted out kind of a separatist party.

00:05:33.440 Where are things at in your sense where you sit?

00:05:36.620 Yeah, I think there's two levels to this.

00:05:39.580 And the first is, you know, is first of all, the cartoon is very relevant today.

00:05:45.080 And I think it expresses the frustration that many in Saskatchewan, Alberta, and in other areas of Western Canada have as well.

00:05:52.540 A little over 100 years old and odd that it's still relevant.

00:05:56.060 And unfortunate, I would say that it's still relevant because it doesn't need to be.

00:05:59.960 And I think many will, you know, look at that cartoon of that cow eating in the Western part of our nation and then the milk being harvested in the Eastern part of our nation.

00:06:10.880 We'll quickly refer to the challenges around equalization, for example, and how that transfer happens.

00:06:17.480 But I would say two things.

00:06:20.120 One is when it comes to separation and people that talk about separating from Canada.

00:06:26.200 And we can talk about that a little bit later because often people will lead to Quebec is the province that has ultimately had a referendum on separation.

00:06:37.580 Saskatchewan actually looked at it as well back in 1995, and I'll circle around that to maybe in a little bit.

00:06:42.960 But I don't think that separation solves any of the challenges that people see in Western Canada.

00:06:48.060 And I don't think it's realistic for those folks that are realistic in their thoughts about it.

00:06:54.600 Separation doesn't gain us access to ports.

00:06:57.100 Separation doesn't really gain us what people think it will.

00:07:01.200 And so I don't think it's a realistic option.

00:07:03.340 However, there is much frustration that is expressed in that cartoon.

00:07:06.700 And I would say that the next step that people will discuss is equalization and the fact that dollars flow often from a place like Alberta to a place like Quebec and the sensitivities around that.

00:07:19.400 And those are real.

00:07:20.820 And we feel those in Saskatchewan as well being a contributor for the last 15 years.

00:07:29.700 But I think it's even deeper than that.

00:07:31.180 What the challenge we have today in this country and the frustration that that cartoon signifies is we feel in Saskatchewan, we have a growing and vibrant economy.

00:07:45.280 And I think the same is true in Alberta and Manitoba and likely true in other parts of the nation as well.

00:07:50.160 Our economy in Saskatchewan is based on the development of our natural resources and then doing what we can to climb that value chain.

00:07:57.940 We feel a lot of pressure from the federal government and sometimes I think in fairness from other areas of Canada in not being able to fully develop those industries which create wealth, which create jobs, which create opportunity for people that live in Saskatchewan communities.

00:08:15.440 We need to celebrate that as Canadians.

00:08:18.460 We need to celebrate the investment, for example, of the largest mining company in the world, BHP, making a significant investment in Saskatchewan.

00:08:26.840 It'll be the cleanest potash in this case that'll be produced anywhere in the world and it'll be putting Saskatchewan people to work. 0.58

00:08:35.240 We need to celebrate that across Canada as all Canadians in the same way.

00:08:38.680 And here's the trade-off.

00:08:41.580 We in Saskatchewan, I would say, when there's an electric vehicle manufacturing plant that is announced in Ontario or even a parts manufacturing plant that is announced in Quebec,

00:08:52.200 that's good for the folks in Ontario, it's good for the folks in Quebec, but I would say indirectly it's also good for the broader Canadian economy and thereby good for all Canadians.

00:09:02.620 And we need to get back to supporting one another across this nation, being excited for one another when we succeed,

00:09:10.460 as opposed to, you know, some of the comments that we've maybe been hearing lately and quite frankly,

00:09:16.900 some of the comments I think Christy Clark really put forward quite succinctly in a recent video that she did.

00:09:24.100 Well, I want to pause there and play those comments.

00:09:28.140 Former Liberal Premier of Quebec, of British Columbia, Christy Clark, was at an investment conference in Vancouver at the end of January.

00:09:36.100 And I'd never heard her speak about the sense of alienation that's felt.

00:09:44.040 And so let's play a little clip of that right now.

00:09:46.720 My dad used to say, you know, thing about Canada is, is Quebec always wants out and Alberta always wants in.

00:09:56.560 You know, British Columbia just sits on the sidelines and is sort of happy with where we're at.

00:10:00.680 We're not paying that much attention to what goes on on the other side of the Rockies.

00:10:04.320 I never thought I would see the day when Alberta would go from being passionately Canadian and wanting in,

00:10:14.220 really fighting for a way in, to trying to find a way to get out.

00:10:19.800 And that speaks to, Jay, I think, the intense sense of alienation that people in Saskatchewan and Alberta are feeling now.

00:10:28.440 Premier Moshe, your former colleague, Premier Clark, she was talking about this, this sense that what you do, it doesn't get valued in other parts of Canada.

00:10:40.740 And that because that is what people do for a living, they feel like they're not being valued by the country.

00:10:47.020 Is that a, is that a sentiment that you hear a lot as you travel your province?

00:10:51.520 Yes, and it comes out as a frustration, sometimes as anger.

00:10:55.820 But more importantly, for all of us to consider, I think it comes out as, is really, in many ways, dividing our country.

00:11:03.160 And it starts at the very, at the very top.

00:11:05.960 If you go on, and I encourage everyone to listen to the full half hour or so that former Premier Christy Clark spoke on there.

00:11:13.980 You know, she talks about what binds us together as Canadians.

00:11:16.480 What, you know, what are we proud of collectively as Canadians?

00:11:20.360 And, and she talks about the strength of our, our natural resource-based economy in the Western areas and the strength of our manufacturing economy in places like Ontario and Quebec.

00:11:29.080 And the fact that we need to get back to being, you know, proud of one another, binding together as Canadians and being proud of this nation as a whole.

00:11:37.620 And that starts at the federal level.

00:11:39.060 And I, I, I think it's been missing for a period of time here now.

00:11:43.940 And so I, I credit to former Premier Clark for her comments.

00:11:47.900 And I think they're very succinct.

00:11:49.300 And I think they very much portray the feeling of, of, you know, many people that work in a, in a, in a wealth producing, a vibrant, natural resource-based economy in not only the Western part of our nation, but in many areas of our nation.

00:12:05.900 Yeah.

00:12:06.380 I always love telling the story that I grew up in Hamilton, very much an industrial town.

00:12:12.740 Right.

00:12:13.560 But the, the mustard seed that would be grown in your province would be shipped east to Hamilton, processed at GS Dunn, shipped to France, turned into a high-end margarine or high-end mustard.

00:12:25.860 I wish we, you know, made more of the high-end stuff here, but grown in Sask, processed in Hamilton and the world's finest Dijon mustard, you know, is the end result.

00:12:36.460 Well, that's a country working together.

00:12:38.200 When you get a big potash announcement, like you did with BHP or Alberta gets a new oil sands development going.

00:12:48.060 Well, that's more work for the people that make the trucks that are going to be used, the machinery that's going to be used.

00:12:53.780 That sometimes just the trucks that we bought by the men and women were working in the project.

00:12:59.500 That's got to be good.

00:13:00.600 Do you think that we look at that as Canadians the way that we should?

00:13:06.600 Do you think that, or do you just think that, you know, us Central Canadian you-know-whats don't think about and value Western Canada?

00:13:16.460 I don't know, you know, that's a hard question to answer, because I'm not going to preclude what, you know, other Canadians think or try to guess as to what other Canadians think.

00:13:29.980 However, what I do look for is, you know, how do we make this relationship in this nation, and I would even go so far as to say this continent, successful.

00:13:40.660 And we really need to get away from some of our, you know, regionalistic biases that we have, and we have them in Saskatchewan.

00:13:51.820 I have them, and I've been at the likely very center of a number of discussions where they've been, you know, somewhat in conflict.

00:14:02.340 I said Saskatchewan's been, and I have been somewhat in conflict of the direction that our federal government has gone on a number of spaces.

00:14:10.660 But we need to get back to being Canadians first. 1.00

00:14:14.280 We need to be back, get back to celebrating successes in other parts of Canada.

00:14:19.900 But we also need to get back to a place where we're supporting the development of those successes across our nation, and I would even say across our continent.

00:14:28.920 If we don't have our best interests in mind as Canadians and as North Americans, someone else has an interest in the natural resources, for example, in North America, and they may not have our national or our continental best interests in mind by any stretch.

00:14:44.820 And so we need to get back to supporting one another, not only in our successes, but in the development of those successes, and understanding what it is that actually drives the health and wealth of our communities across this nation.

00:14:57.440 The natural resources do drive our success in attracting investment, creating jobs, and then climbing that value chain in much of the western part of this nation, including the western part of Ontario.

00:15:10.000 When you get into the manufacturing sector, you know, that is more the eastern part of Ontario and moving into Quebec.

00:15:18.700 Again, trading much throughout the United States in that industry as well.

00:15:25.920 And we need to support one another as Canadians to be successful ultimately as a nation.

00:15:31.000 And I would say that this starts with federal leadership as provinces, as, you know, people living in different parts of Canada.

00:15:40.000 We're always going to have our differences.

00:15:41.480 But I would say, you know, what binds us together is much larger than what separates us.

00:15:49.680 And we need to focus on, you know, what actually does bind us together and have a little bit of, as you say, the missing key at some, the feeling is, is that there is at times some respect that is missing for, you know, certain industries that are in their own right are highly successful.

00:16:09.300 Creating, as I say, creating jobs and wealth for families living in communities across this nation.

00:16:16.160 But, you know, in the case of what we produce in Saskatchewan, we produce the cleanest products that you can find on earth, no matter if it's oil, potash, uranium, agricultural products, whatever it might be.

00:16:26.960 They are among the very cleanest that you can find and purchase on earth.

00:16:30.940 And we always say, if you, if you need more oil or if you need more natural gas or uranium or potash or agri-food products, you should actually buy it from Saskatchewan.

00:16:39.260 If you care at all about the environment, because it's cleaner than like products that are produced in Russia, Belarus, or any of our competitors, really.

00:16:47.800 I want to ask you more about those industries, because I don't think people realize how diversified your economy is.

00:16:53.800 But first, let me ask you about, you mentioned leadership, federal leadership.

00:17:00.700 I've noted you and your friend, Ontario Premier Doug Ford, taking turns at being Captain Canada over the last little while.

00:17:09.900 But before I leave the alienation part of it, I want to ask you, do you ever have to manage within your own caucus,

00:17:16.800 because the Saskatchewan party, of which your leader, is a coalition.

00:17:21.340 It's not a liberal party.

00:17:22.600 It's not a conservative party.

00:17:23.900 It's a free market coalition party.

00:17:26.120 I'm sure you've got some people who start saying, you know what, we got to push more.

00:17:33.160 Yeah, no, we have a, you know, a larger tent.

00:17:35.760 And I would say that most parties that are in, you know, either in power at the, in government,

00:17:40.680 either at the provincial level or, or maybe even, you know, we've seen likely the federal government as well as,

00:17:46.080 has, has made their tent larger, more to, you know, some would say more to the left of what,

00:17:51.540 where the traditional party, you know, as traditionally, the traditional liberal party is, as normally sat.

00:17:58.380 But I think in order to govern, you have to have some compromise within your caucus,

00:18:03.340 as well as with the policy development that you have outside of your caucus.

00:18:07.980 So sure, we have, you know, those very open discussions in our caucus.

00:18:11.360 I'm thankful we have them as a caucus.

00:18:13.400 And I, I don't know that other levels of government are quite as open with, you know,

00:18:19.220 the discussions that they have in their respective caucuses.

00:18:23.300 But at the, the end of the day, yeah, you're going to have differences there.

00:18:27.360 We do.

00:18:27.940 I'm sure Premier Ford does in his caucus as well as it's, you know, quite large.

00:18:32.440 That's, I think, part of being a healthy government is not having, you know,

00:18:37.840 myself as a leader in Saskatchewan saying, this is the way it's going to be,

00:18:41.240 or Premier Ford in Ontario saying, this is the way it's going to be.

00:18:45.180 You know, it's one person's opinion and, and, and, and surmising on, on the policy position,

00:18:50.760 but actually having that healthy debate in caucus and finding your way, you know,

00:18:54.680 through whatever the topic might be.

00:18:56.060 That, that's the same debate we should be having across this nation as to, you know,

00:19:01.180 what is in the best interest of, of Canada and not making policy decisions like they

00:19:07.980 have in other areas of the world that are solely focused on, on one area of, or one,

00:19:13.620 one, one topic.

00:19:14.700 For example, you have the European Union that has made policy decisions now for 10 or 15

00:19:19.780 years solely taking into account the, the environmental aspect of those policies that

00:19:26.720 thereby pushed, you know, their emissions out of their respective national boundaries.

00:19:32.040 And as a group, I would say all of their, their boundaries within the EU and in order

00:19:37.700 that energy demand hasn't went away.

00:19:39.320 So they've been purchasing their, their oil, natural gas, and coal from a place like Russia,

00:19:43.520 um, sacrifice their energy security and, and ultimately, uh, I think have put themselves

00:19:49.480 in a very vulnerable position.

00:19:51.020 We shouldn't go down that same path, uh, here in Canada.

00:19:54.580 And I, I really feel that as long as we are able, and we are at the provincial level in

00:19:59.820 Saskatchewan, at least, uh, to have those very frank discussions, uh, in the policy development

00:20:04.540 that we have at the caucus and ultimately the cabinet table, uh, that we, we will prevent,

00:20:10.200 uh, our, our, our area from going down that, that cul-de-sac, that deep dark cul-de-sac of

00:20:15.840 sacrificing energy security, and ultimately eventually food security.

00:20:19.980 I would hope they're having it at the federal level.

00:20:21.960 I don't know who they are.

00:20:23.720 All right.

00:20:24.300 Um, we need to take a quick, uh, commercial break.

00:20:26.800 When I come back though, I will ask you about Saskatchewan first and what you are, are

00:20:32.340 doing.

00:20:32.800 Is it, is it a sovereignty act like Alberta's talked about?

00:20:35.780 We'll get to that in a moment here on the full comment podcast.

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00:22:37.660 So what is Saskatchewan First?

00:22:40.940 Premier Scott Moe, is that a sovereignty act like we've heard from Alberta?

00:22:45.540 Is it a separatist piece of legislation?

00:22:47.640 Is it unconstitutional as some columnists in the Globe and Mail might surmise?

00:22:53.500 Well, first and foremost, I would say, Brian, the Saskatchewan First Act is a shield.

00:22:58.380 It's a shield to really protect Saskatchewan opportunity for this generation and the next from a sword that is being wielded.

00:23:06.980 And generally by the federal government and generally using federal environmental policy to circumvent the constitution that we have.

00:23:15.900 In particular, where the constitution allows for and gives the power of natural resource development to the provinces.

00:23:25.320 The federal government is moving in on that space using environmental policy.

00:23:30.340 Again, I would refer back to my words about how that has worked in the European Union over the last decade or decade and a half.

00:23:36.200 So that's why we have put together the Saskatchewan First Act is to shield our opportunity, to shield the ability for the province to grow our natural resource investment and ultimately to grow the jobs and population and follow the growth agenda that we have here in this province.

00:23:56.500 It's not a separatist piece of legislation by any stretch, actually, and it is entirely constitutional.

00:24:03.460 As a matter of fact, what the Saskatchewan First Act does is two things.

00:24:08.640 One, it will provide for a tribunal to determine when there is a new policy that is brought into place.

00:24:14.620 For example, if we had had it in place when the carbon tax was introduced, this tribunal would make some assessments as to what the economic impact or the economic harm of that policy will be to Saskatchewan industry and Saskatchewan people.

00:24:30.180 Nobody has done that on these environmental policies that have been brought in by the federal government over the course of the last few years.

00:24:37.300 We will now be doing that in Saskatchewan and two, what the Saskatchewan First Act does is provide for a reaffirming of the constitutional right that the province has, and in this case, the province of Saskatchewan has, to develop and grow our natural resource industry.

00:24:53.480 So two things that it does, it's a shield, it's not a sword, and it is really reconfirming what is already in the constitution, making it entirely constitutional, and in no way is about Saskatchewan seceding or moving out of the nation of Canada or out of the confederation.

00:25:11.200 In fact, we believe that a strong, growing, and healthy Saskatchewan actually contributes to a strong, growing, and healthy nation of Canada.

00:25:19.440 How does it differ from what we've heard about Alberta's Sovereignty Act?

00:25:25.940 Well, there's a few differences.

00:25:29.440 One, I think there's a few changes that have been made to the Alberta Act, but a few differences in, for example, who would be, I think the Alberta Act is more about whether or not they're going to actually follow federal legislation.

00:25:45.180 What we are putting in place is that the federal legislation actually has to follow the constitution, and so it's a reverse onus, if you will, in Saskatchewan, as opposed to not following what the federal government might implement in a piece of legislation.

00:26:02.660 What we're saying is the federal legislation actually has to be proved constitutional before it applies in the province of Saskatchewan.

00:26:10.180 There was a bill passed a few years ago, Bill C-69.

00:26:14.540 It was dubbed by many the No More Pipelines Act, but we're finding out that it goes way, way beyond pipelines.

00:26:22.980 This is the environmental impact assessment situation.

00:26:27.940 It is being used by the federal government to try and micromanage even housing in Ontario.

00:26:35.280 They have put forward that they may come in and try and stop housing from being built on certain lands.

00:26:45.180 They've talked about blocking highways and other infrastructure.

00:26:50.380 Do you think that the federal government is trying to use environmental legislation to take over areas of provincial and even municipal planning?

00:27:00.040 Yes.

00:27:01.540 Well, that's a short answer.

00:27:03.300 How is that manifesting in Saskatchewan, beyond pipelines?

00:27:08.760 Yeah, not very good.

00:27:09.860 This is where the frustration comes into play.

00:27:12.540 And yes, Bill C-69 is dubbed the No More Pipelines Bill, but it has impact on municipal development, residential development.

00:27:20.300 It has impact on industrial development as well.

00:27:24.040 We are dealing with Bill C-69, for example, on a natural gas-fired facility to generate power that we're building in the province of Saskatchewan today, walking through all that Bill C-69 has.

00:27:39.320 That gas facility is there to provide our baseload power to back up to 700 megawatts of renewable power that we're also building at the very same time.

00:27:50.420 And so Bill C-69 is one, quite frankly, that needs to go.

00:27:55.400 So are they trying to stop the natural gas plant from being built?

00:28:02.720 No, I don't think that's the intent.

00:28:05.780 I think the clean electricity standard is going to try to do that by 2035.

00:28:10.200 So there is legislation that will be in place to do just that.

00:28:15.340 But I don't think Bill C-69 is doing that.

00:28:17.680 How can they try and stop electricity generation?

00:28:22.260 Bill, the clean electricity standard, some of the discussion around what that will look like will actually be to prevent, to ban fossil fuel electricity generation by the year 2035.

00:28:33.500 So, you know, what does that mean to people that live in Saskatoon who get all of their power from the Queen Elizabeth or Queen Charlotte, the natural gas power station here in Saskatoon is January 1st, 2036, pretty cold day in Saskatoon, inside or outside of your house.

00:28:52.660 And so it's just an unrealistic piece of policy, like Bill C-69 is also an unrealistic piece of policy, is using environmental policy to really hinder the development of natural resources, both in Alberta, Saskatchewan, and I would say even in other areas of Canada as well, as it goes far beyond the energy industry.

00:29:17.080 Before I moved to Quebec and worked there for a couple of years covering politics, I was always thinking, why is Quebec always fighting the federal government?

00:29:27.740 Quebec, they're just whining, let the federal government do what they want. 0.89

00:29:31.480 And then I moved to Quebec and you start understanding the fight and it's often the federal government back in the late 90s, early 2000s, the federal government was meddling in all kinds of provincial jurisdictions.

00:29:43.800 That's what they seem to be doing here as well.

00:29:47.360 Is that what drives a lot of what we started the discussion about?

00:29:51.120 People feeling upset with central Canada because the federal government is trying to tell you what's best for Sask?

00:30:00.220 Yeah, I don't even know if it's, it'll be labeled sometimes as central Canada.

00:30:04.360 I think it's more targeted towards the federal government and some of the policies that are stymieing our growth, to put it very bluntly.

00:30:15.020 And, you know, it's funny you mentioned Quebec, who has had a, you know, a very tumultuous relationship with the federal government,

00:30:23.920 up to and including not even signing the constitution that we all, you know, reference and we've referenced and reaffirmed in the Saskatchewan First Act.

00:30:32.580 But if you remember back, Brian, in 1995, we're talking about this just prior to you coming on.

00:30:39.880 In 1995 was, I believe that was the year that Quebec actually had the referendum.

00:30:44.480 And, you know, so here's a skill testing question for you.

00:30:47.320 And I don't know if there's more than this, but there's at least two provinces that actually actively looked at separation in and around that time in 1995.

00:30:56.860 Obviously, one was Quebec.

00:30:58.600 Do you have any idea who the second was?

00:31:00.600 I believe it was Saskatchewan.

00:31:03.500 It was Saskatchewan.

00:31:05.200 And you can note it was brought forward in a book written by Chantelle Hébert shortly after that called The Morning After the Quebec Referendum and the Day That Almost Was.

00:31:15.620 But it was Roy Romano of the day who had actually put together a special task force, a secret task force.

00:31:22.240 It was under, in government terms, it was hidden under the title of constitutional contingency.

00:31:28.720 So looking at what should Saskatchewan do if there is a separation, a vote to separate in Quebec.

00:31:36.420 And there was really three things that this committee was asked to look into.

00:31:40.700 And the first was for Saskatchewan, should Saskatchewan then separate from Canada?

00:31:45.520 The second was, should Saskatchewan join with Alberta and British Columbia and leave Canada as a block?

00:31:53.460 And the third contingency was, should Saskatchewan actually look at seceding and being part of the United States of America?

00:31:59.780 And so it was around that time of the Quebec referendum that it was actually Roy Romano, an NDP premier in Saskatchewan,

00:32:07.300 that had put together a constitutional contingency secret committee to look at what should Saskatchewan's response be should Quebec leave the nation of Canada?

00:32:16.900 And so there's just a little tidbit of history that I don't think everyone is aware of.

00:32:21.720 We're not looking at leaving Canada today.

00:32:24.460 However, we are looking at being a strong, vibrant, autonomous province within the nation of Canada.

00:32:31.080 And we believe that will allow Saskatchewan to grow and prosper and contribute to a stronger and more prosperous nation.

00:32:39.520 Do you think Canadians across the board need to know more about their constitution and who's in charge of what?

00:32:46.360 Or does that just make eyes glaze over for people that aren't political geeks like you and I?

00:32:52.240 Yeah, I think the latter.

00:32:53.820 I don't know that Canadians need to, you know, we live in, we're so fortunate to live in a democracy that we do where we don't have some of the challenges that we're seeing in Eastern Europe, for example, or other areas of the world.

00:33:09.300 And one of the luxuries of living in a settled, fairly stable regulatory environment like Canada is you don't have to, you know, keep up to date on what's happening politically and how that might impact you personally each and every day of your life.

00:33:28.000 That being said, we do need to engage in who I think should be much more careful on intruding, essentially on the spirit and the wording of the constitution is the current federal administration.

00:33:43.420 Their efforts using environmental policies like Bill C-69 to really impede on areas of provincial jurisdiction, Stephen Harper didn't do this, John Crescent didn't do this, Paul Martin didn't do this, prime ministers of all stripes did not do what the federal government is doing today.

00:34:02.180 And that is using federal policy, federal environmental policy all too often to really intrude and impede in what our provincial areas of jurisdiction laid out quite succinctly in the constitution.

00:34:14.040 That's why you're seeing acts like the Saskatchewan First Act.

00:34:17.180 That's why you're seeing Alberta come forward with their Sovereignty Act.

00:34:20.340 It's not to leave Canada.

00:34:22.060 It's to protect the people and the opportunities that we have in the respective industries that we have.

00:34:29.780 It's these acts are shields.

00:34:31.540 They're not swords.

00:34:32.360 The sword is being wielded by the federal government, unfortunately.

00:34:38.820 I mentioned a little while ago, you and Premier Ford playing captain candidate at various times.

00:34:44.800 And, you know, your role in that was recently trying to bring together the provinces and help shepherd the health talks.

00:34:53.880 Premier Ford at various times has worked behind the scenes on others.

00:34:58.580 What's fascinating with this government is, you know, I've covered politics a long time.

00:35:04.140 I've never seen every premier in the country unified on so many issues.

00:35:10.420 You guys were unified in your health talks.

00:35:12.280 You were unified recently on bail reform.

00:35:14.800 And you're all unified in opposing Bill C-69, even though you come from different parties in different parts of the country.

00:35:22.520 I think that speaks to the fact that we've got a federal government at odds with provinces.

00:35:30.700 Yes, that is the case.

00:35:33.960 And, you know, our Council of Federation table has grown closer, I would say, over the course of the last number of years.

00:35:41.100 And, you know, specifically to the health talks, credit to John Horgan, the previous Premier of British Columbia, not of my political stripe.

00:35:48.880 And I tell him that every time I see him.

00:35:52.260 But we work very closely with John Horgan where we had, you know, an issue that was aligned.

00:35:58.340 And I think that's what people expect their leaders to do, is we may not agree on everything in this great nation and from, you know, vast nation that we have.

00:36:09.500 And we shouldn't expect to agree on everything in the same way, as we mentioned earlier, in our caucus, we don't always agree on everything.

00:36:15.640 But that doesn't mean that we can't find points of agreement, and it doesn't mean we can't move forward together where those points of agreement are.

00:36:22.760 The most recent health discussions most certainly were one of those points of agreement among all provincial leaders had been, you know,

00:36:31.740 we had had some asks in place for about two years that we finally were able to sit down with the Prime Minister on.

00:36:38.840 And, you know, that's the Canadian way, is to work through your differences, find your points of agreement, and let's move forward on those.

00:36:49.600 And, you know, the points of disagreement, they'll still be there.

00:36:53.420 We can, I always say, we need to get back to being able to disagree without being disagreeable.

00:36:59.040 And that's an important thing, I think, for, you know, all generations to remember, is just because you disagree with someone or a group doesn't make them bad.

00:37:09.520 It means you don't disagree on that point, and you shouldn't judge, you know, the person, the group, the movement on the fact that you might not agree on every point.

00:37:18.600 We as Canadians agree on far more than we disagree on.

00:37:22.520 And I think Christy Clark had mentioned this as well, is that at the federal leadership level, you need somebody, and here's my prediction,

00:37:29.840 the person that wins the next federal election will be the person that steps forward and says, this is what Canadians can be proud of.

00:37:36.840 This is important to all Canadians.

00:37:39.000 Yes, we don't agree on everything, but this matters to all Canadians, and we should all be proud of it, this, collectively.

00:37:45.700 Whoever comes up with that, I think will be the next Prime Minister of this nation, and deserves to be.

00:37:53.060 I always hear people arguing and describing those they disagree with politically as evil, and I try and remind people, no, they're not evil, they're just wrong.

00:38:02.920 And we're all Canadians in the end, right?

00:38:05.420 Scott Moth, thanks so much, and all the best to you, yours, and your province.

00:38:11.120 Hey, thanks, Brian, and all the best to all your listeners and to all of the people, not only in Ontario, but across this nation of Canada that we know and love from coast to coast to coast.

00:38:21.640 This has been a Full Comment podcast.

00:38:24.460 Full Comment is a post-media podcast production.

00:38:27.120 This episode produced by Andre Pru with theme music by Bryce Hall.

00:38:31.020 Kevin Libin is the executive producer.

00:38:33.060 Remember, you can subscribe to Full Comment on Apple Podcasts, Google, Spotify, Amazon.

00:38:38.680 Listen through your app or Alexa-enabled devices and help us out by leaving a review, and make sure you tell your friends about us.

00:38:45.920 I'm Brian Lilly, thanks for listening.

Full Comment - March 06, 2023

Saskatchewan raises a shield to stop Justin Trudeau’s intrusions

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