Full Comment - December 08, 2025


Say hello to pro-pipeline First Nations in B.C.


Episode Stats

Length

37 minutes

Words per Minute

156.26517

Word Count

5,794

Sentence Count

352

Misogynist Sentences

1

Hate Speech Sentences

12


Summary

It s been a week since Prime Minister Mark Carney and Alberta Premier Danielle Smith signed the MOU about the future of Alberta s energy sector. Since then, there s been confusing messages about what that deal means, what comes next, who needs to be consulted, and where we go from here. Today, we re trying to figure out what it does all mean.


Transcript

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00:00:30.000 It's been a little over a week since Prime Minister Mark Carney sat down with Alberta Premier Danielle Smith
00:00:37.960 and signed the Memorandum of Understanding about the future of Alberta's energy sector.
00:00:43.400 In that time, there's been a lot of confusing messages about what that MOU means,
00:00:47.840 what comes next, who needs to be consulted, and where we go from here.
00:00:52.240 Hello and welcome to the Full Comment Podcast.
00:00:54.040 My name is Brian Lilly, your host, and today we're going to try and figure out what it does all mean.
00:00:59.020 And in the second half, you'll get to hear an interview with someone who will answer a lot of questions
00:01:04.240 on the First Nations part of all of this, about consultation, and specifically all about what this group
00:01:10.980 you keep hearing about, Coastal First Nations, is really all about.
00:01:13.880 The group that says they'll never allow a pipeline.
00:01:16.740 Well, who are they and can they stop it?
00:01:18.960 The answer to that last question is no, but more on that later.
00:01:23.160 On the day when the deal was signed, there were lots of smiles, especially from Alberta Premier Danielle Smith.
00:01:29.120 Today is a great day for the people of Alberta and for all of Canada.
00:01:32.500 The last 10 years have been an extremely difficult time for hundreds of thousands of Albertans
00:01:37.120 and their families that directly or indirectly rely on and make their living from a strong and vibrant
00:01:43.400 and growing Alberta oil and gas sector.
00:01:45.540 These Albertans are mothers and fathers and young people working so hard to put food on the table,
00:01:50.340 to pay for hockey and soccer fees, and to save for the down payment on their first home.
00:01:55.340 Prime Minister Mark Carney, meanwhile, was trying to walk a balancing act,
00:01:59.560 trying to make it seem like, yes, he had actually given lots to Alberta,
00:02:02.740 but also trying to make it seem like he hadn't given too much and definitely not a pipeline yet.
00:02:08.800 Prime Minister, are you willing to approve a pipeline even if British Columbia or affected First Nations don't agree?
00:02:16.780 Would you compensate them instead?
00:02:18.640 Well, just to be clear, this agreement today between Alberta and the government of Canada,
00:02:25.320 it's the first step.
00:02:27.040 It's an example of cooperative federalism.
00:02:29.640 We're agreeing in partnership.
00:02:31.080 And in a spirit of trust.
00:02:34.500 But what has to happen, several things have to happen, before a pipeline is built.
00:02:39.620 And one of those is a private sector proponent.
00:02:42.540 Secondly, it goes directly to your question, which is that there needs to be full partnership,
00:02:48.900 including equity ownership, substantial economic benefits with First Nations,
00:02:53.940 First Nations in Alberta, First Nations in British Columbia,
00:02:56.580 as well as agreement and substantial economic benefits for the people of British Columbia.
00:03:02.620 So we look at this as the start of a process.
00:03:06.360 We've created some of the necessary conditions for this to happen.
00:03:10.440 But there's a lot more work to do.
00:03:12.060 And while Carney has said multiple times that this is about more than a pipeline,
00:03:15.760 that's really all anyone is talking about, a pipeline and whether it will get built.
00:03:20.660 There's plenty of skepticism, but I remain hopeful, as does Premier Smith.
00:03:25.480 You asked me a few months ago, do you think you should restart the conversation about building a pipeline to the B.C. coast?
00:03:30.620 No one would have even thought that that was going to even be possible to begin the conversation.
00:03:35.360 And now it's begun.
00:03:36.040 And so I think that that is really a measure of just how much the recalibration in the global economy
00:03:41.940 and the recalibration in Canada has been over the past year.
00:03:45.100 That's a clip of Premier Danielle Smith from an interview that I conducted with her the day after the announcement.
00:03:50.780 One of the things that I put to her was a claim by critics that this deal was not really about getting a pipeline to the northwest coast,
00:03:58.980 that Mark Carney really just wants to reboot Keystone XL.
00:04:02.120 The MOU very clearly talks about a million barrel a day bitumen pipeline to Asian markets
00:04:08.760 and the need to potentially have a tanker band car vote.
00:04:12.780 And so that doesn't go through Galveston, Texas?
00:04:16.400 You don't need a tanker band car vote to go down to Galveston, Texas.
00:04:19.460 Premier Smith is convinced that this is a good deal for Alberta.
00:04:23.020 So Stephen Guibault, who quit the Carney cabinet over it,
00:04:26.080 and other climate advisors have also quit advising Carney as well.
00:04:29.860 And for those staying in the fold, like Liberal MP Tlaib Nur-Muhammad from the lower mainland around Vancouver,
00:04:37.320 well, he's trying hard to downplay all of this.
00:04:40.420 In a post on X, he said, well, it sounded like he was trying to rewrite the MOU.
00:04:45.300 Quote,
00:04:45.540 Any project that goes through the major project's office must have B.C. and First Nations consent,
00:04:52.040 and we will all work to ensure our B.C. coast is protected.
00:04:55.480 None of that's actually true.
00:04:58.460 There's no need for consent from B.C. or First Nations.
00:05:02.020 Definitely, that is not in the MOU.
00:05:04.980 But Liberals have continued to try and say there's no private sector partner and no proposal,
00:05:09.340 as if to say that, well, it'll always be that way.
00:05:13.380 Premier Smith, meanwhile, is saying that she's working hard with the private sector to find a backer.
00:05:19.420 Then, of course, there are the issues around First Nations.
00:05:21.840 Prime Minister Carney did address the Assembly of First Nations and promised them a partnership.
00:05:26.660 Canada's new government is committed to working directly with you to build stronger nation-to-nation relationships,
00:05:35.620 for it's only by working together that we can build stronger, more prosperous First Nations communities
00:05:43.100 and a stronger, more resilient Canada.
00:05:46.340 I am pleased to announce that I will host, early in the new year,
00:05:52.000 a joint federal-provincial-territorial First Ministers meeting with First Nations.
00:06:03.160 The AFN passed a resolution calling for the MOU to be rescinded,
00:06:07.620 and there was strong pipeline opposition at the meeting.
00:06:10.020 Then there's this group that I mentioned earlier, the one we keep hearing about,
00:06:14.540 Coastal First Nations.
00:06:16.080 Sounds like a band or a collection of bands,
00:06:18.700 and that's how many in the media portray this group.
00:06:21.620 But the reality is, it's a Vancouver-based not-for-profit,
00:06:25.600 originally started with the help of American money from foundations
00:06:28.640 that oppose the oil and gas industry in Canada.
00:06:31.840 And while this group does have support in some First Nations communities,
00:06:35.160 they don't represent all of them, and especially not all Coastal First Nations communities,
00:06:40.260 and most importantly, they don't hold right or title to any of the land under discussion.
00:06:46.320 There's a lot more to be said on this issue and a long way to go before anything moves forward,
00:06:50.920 but that's some of what's happened.
00:06:52.520 As for the Indigenous part of all this, that's what we'll get to when we come back.
00:06:56.880 An interview with a former chief of an actual Coastal First Nation
00:07:00.420 who supports the Pipeline project and now sits in the House of Commons as an MP.
00:07:06.300 My discussion with Ellis Ross when we return.
00:07:09.140 This is Tristan Hopper, the host of Canada Did What?,
00:07:11.800 where we unpack the biggest, weirdest, and wildest political moments in Canadian history
00:07:16.560 you thought you knew and tell you what really happened.
00:07:20.080 Stick around at the end of the episode to hear a sample of one of our favourite episodes.
00:07:24.620 If you don't want to stick around, make sure you subscribe to Canada Did What?
00:07:28.620 It's everywhere you get podcasts.
00:07:30.980 Ellis Ross is a member of the Hysla First Nation near Kitimat, British Columbia.
00:07:35.060 He's currently sitting as a Conservative MP for Skeena-Bulkley Valley out of British Columbia,
00:07:39.660 and before that, he served as the MLA for the region in the provincial legislature from 2017 to 2024.
00:07:47.080 Before that, he was on his band council, even serving as chief in two different elections.
00:07:52.260 As far back as 2006, he helped negotiate deals to bring liquefied natural gas projects to his region,
00:07:58.160 to help with economic development.
00:08:00.660 Here's my discussion with Ellis Ross.
00:08:03.240 So, Ellis, let me ask you to break apart this myth that all First Nations are opposed to resource development,
00:08:12.140 that no one wants a pipeline.
00:08:15.100 You and I have talked about this before, not in a long time,
00:08:18.000 but I don't think your views have changed on this.
00:08:21.120 No.
00:08:22.240 No.
00:08:22.680 And in fact, many First Nations are trying to find a way out of poverty,
00:08:26.660 trying to find a way to get away from the Indian Act,
00:08:29.620 and they'll look at anything, basically.
00:08:33.160 But you're never going to get 100% consensus on anything,
00:08:36.760 whether you're talking about forestry, mining, pipelines.
00:08:40.240 You're not going to get it.
00:08:41.240 Even my own community, the last LNG agreement that we voted on,
00:08:46.620 based on 100% communication, was 92% in favor.
00:08:51.400 I couldn't get that last 8%.
00:08:53.480 That's amazing, 92% in favor.
00:08:56.680 I mean, to get 92% of a community to agree on anything, of any community,
00:09:02.260 can we agree on what aid is?
00:09:05.060 It took years.
00:09:06.180 And we had a lot of oppositional groups.
00:09:11.660 We had the NDP that opposed it.
00:09:13.460 We had misinformation.
00:09:14.940 We had all sorts of things.
00:09:16.620 So we developed a fulsome communication plan
00:09:19.200 to get the truth to our people.
00:09:23.340 And so that was 2011 to 2014, roughly,
00:09:28.040 is when you were working on that, correct?
00:09:30.640 I actually started on the LNG files back in 2004
00:09:34.220 for the original Chevron KMLG project.
00:09:38.220 But I also worked on the forestry files and some mining files,
00:09:43.040 government duration files.
00:09:45.260 But it was always on the foundation of aboriginal rights and title and economics.
00:09:51.360 Now, you said so many communities want to get away from the Indian Act.
00:09:57.300 What do you mean by that?
00:09:58.280 Because that was part of, when you were a counselor,
00:10:00.880 when you were a chief counselor, that was part of what you wanted to do.
00:10:05.200 Explain what that means for people that don't know.
00:10:08.300 A lot of Canadians don't even know it.
00:10:10.440 They know the Indian Act exists,
00:10:11.920 but they don't know what's in it or why you'd want to get away from it.
00:10:15.440 The Indian Act is an archaic, old-fashioned act
00:10:19.600 that the Canadian government instituted 100 years ago.
00:10:25.440 And basically, I shouldn't say get away from the Indian Act.
00:10:29.500 I wanted to get away from the Indian Act funding.
00:10:32.140 That's what I wanted to do.
00:10:33.160 Because when I looked at it, a lot of the Indian Act, it's not relevant.
00:10:40.620 But the Indian Act funding agreements,
00:10:43.140 when our people were saying that they wanted jobs,
00:10:46.580 they want independence,
00:10:49.020 one of the things I realized is that, okay, if you want independence,
00:10:52.500 then you've got to start earning your own money.
00:10:54.540 You've got to get away from this Indian Act funding agreement.
00:10:56.520 And Indian Act funding agreements actually fall into five categories
00:11:00.580 based on how well you are at managing money.
00:11:03.140 So if you're not managing your money very well
00:11:08.100 and your funding agreement, you're not implementing very well,
00:11:12.160 then you get put into the category where the federal government
00:11:15.700 actually oversees every single expenditure you make.
00:11:20.940 They approve it.
00:11:21.880 You do tons of reporting.
00:11:23.360 But the more that you manage your funding better,
00:11:28.040 then you go into progressively less lenient funding structures.
00:11:33.520 So that's what my band undertook.
00:11:35.480 So by the end of it,
00:11:36.220 we were offered the first ever 10-year block funding agreement in Canada
00:11:40.540 because we showed them that we can manage money.
00:11:43.860 We got out of deficit.
00:11:45.780 We got out of that.
00:11:48.140 But my point always was that
00:11:50.080 if you need $100 to run your village,
00:11:54.620 the government under the Indian Act will give you $80.
00:11:58.020 And I didn't like the idea of going around
00:12:00.600 to ask for money for that remaining $20,
00:12:04.700 whether I was talking about renovating my rec center
00:12:07.220 or trying to build a youth program
00:12:09.600 or trying to build an elders program.
00:12:11.280 So I decided to go full on
00:12:15.640 and going towards economic development.
00:12:18.060 And it worked because our people
00:12:19.400 became independent at the same time.
00:12:22.480 Now, so your community in Kinemat,
00:12:24.780 around Kinemat, the Heisla First Nation,
00:12:27.560 you would be something between a provincial government
00:12:31.980 and a municipal government
00:12:33.640 in terms of services that you were delivering.
00:12:37.420 What was it that made you say,
00:12:39.260 you know what, we got to get behind
00:12:40.780 these LNG projects
00:12:42.760 and these other resource development projects?
00:12:46.260 It wasn't me, actually.
00:12:48.020 It was our council.
00:12:49.700 I actually opposed LNG in the beginning.
00:12:52.920 I opposed forestry and mining.
00:12:54.640 I opposed the aluminum smelter
00:12:56.140 that was already there for 60 years.
00:12:57.720 But one of my counselors told me that
00:13:02.600 I really should look at our social issues
00:13:04.360 before I make a decision.
00:13:06.900 So I did.
00:13:08.560 And I was shocked that the way I grew up
00:13:11.240 as a young man on reserve looking for a job
00:13:13.760 was how many First Nations
00:13:16.040 experience all across Canada.
00:13:19.420 and I'm in love with all the social issues
00:13:22.720 that get attached to poverty.
00:13:27.220 So I slowly changed my approach.
00:13:30.340 But what really galvanized it
00:13:32.500 was when I saw the changes in people
00:13:35.860 when they got a job
00:13:36.900 and we didn't have to develop programs
00:13:41.400 for them anymore.
00:13:42.560 They just wanted to do things on their own.
00:13:45.240 They wanted to buy a house.
00:13:46.400 They wanted to buy a van.
00:13:47.500 They wanted to go on vacation.
00:13:50.240 And so all I did
00:13:52.300 when I became chief was saying,
00:13:53.840 how can I duplicate that
00:13:55.140 on a scale that affects everybody?
00:13:58.200 How can I do that?
00:14:00.000 Instead of this mismatch
00:14:01.780 of different initiatives here and there.
00:14:04.040 So when you started out,
00:14:05.340 you were more on the line of,
00:14:07.100 well, look, we should get more
00:14:08.900 because they owe us
00:14:09.900 and you move to a hold on.
00:14:13.820 We can be the masters of our own domain
00:14:16.960 if we go this way.
00:14:18.420 Yeah.
00:14:19.760 And it wasn't an overnight
00:14:21.340 aha moment.
00:14:22.980 It wasn't like that.
00:14:23.720 I read the Indian Act.
00:14:25.460 I read reports from all over Canada
00:14:27.260 from First Nations.
00:14:28.040 I read reports on poverty
00:14:29.760 from all over the world.
00:14:32.180 And I studied different governance systems.
00:14:36.460 And I looked at extreme poverty.
00:14:39.260 I looked at poverty in India,
00:14:41.640 South America.
00:14:43.400 I looked at poverty in the United States.
00:14:46.500 And I could see the comparisons
00:14:48.820 in terms of what we were facing.
00:14:51.140 And so I broke away from the narrative
00:14:53.440 of saying no to economic development,
00:14:55.580 saying no to government,
00:14:57.000 and started to really understand
00:14:58.960 the connection of the right-style case law
00:15:01.280 under Section 35
00:15:02.180 and under the umbrella
00:15:04.340 of a country like Canada.
00:15:06.940 But it took at least a few years
00:15:09.920 for me to put it all together.
00:15:11.840 So we're hearing a lot of voices
00:15:16.540 who are opposed to economic development
00:15:19.380 and resource development
00:15:20.640 and resource extraction
00:15:22.660 being amplified right now.
00:15:24.320 I mean, this is everywhere.
00:15:26.360 And one group that I point to
00:15:28.120 is coastal First Nations,
00:15:29.600 which sounds like,
00:15:31.140 well, it represents all the First Nations
00:15:33.440 along the coast.
00:15:34.520 But this is a specific group.
00:15:38.280 They're a not-for-profit organization
00:15:40.060 that has some representation
00:15:42.180 of First Nations groups
00:15:44.500 along the coast,
00:15:45.180 but not all.
00:15:45.740 But we keep hearing that group say,
00:15:49.400 there will be no pipeline.
00:15:53.980 We will not allow this.
00:15:55.340 We are all opposed to it.
00:15:57.900 You know, I've looked into these guys, Alice,
00:16:01.320 and first off, it started out as a group
00:16:03.980 called the Great Barron Initiative Society,
00:16:06.740 funded by American foundations,
00:16:10.420 American foundations who have always been
00:16:12.720 opposed to Canadian resource development,
00:16:15.540 whether it's forestry,
00:16:16.520 whether it's mining,
00:16:17.420 whether it's oil and gas.
00:16:19.700 And so they fund this group
00:16:21.500 and then this becomes the,
00:16:23.240 well, here's the First Nations group
00:16:24.600 that opposes it.
00:16:26.400 What would be your message
00:16:27.460 to people within First Nations communities
00:16:30.160 specifically?
00:16:30.940 Canadians writ large,
00:16:32.220 but also specifically to people
00:16:34.220 in First Nations communities
00:16:35.460 who are looking at this and saying,
00:16:36.980 well, I guess we should protect everything, right?
00:16:39.460 Because that's the better way forward.
00:16:41.480 I mean, you went on this journey yourself.
00:16:43.860 What would your message be
00:16:46.620 to someone who is leaning towards that?
00:16:51.860 We used to be part of that organization.
00:16:54.300 I was actually on the executive at that time.
00:16:56.860 And I understood where the money came from.
00:17:00.180 It came from American foundations
00:17:01.860 that you mentioned,
00:17:02.520 like the Moore Foundation in the United States.
00:17:05.400 But at that time, when I was a part of it,
00:17:07.440 we were trying to get away from the idea
00:17:11.040 that the David Suzuki Foundation
00:17:12.700 would accept the funding
00:17:15.040 and then forward it on to us.
00:17:16.440 We were trying to make it
00:17:17.180 as a direct link to ours.
00:17:19.520 But we had no idea
00:17:20.540 of the narrative out there
00:17:22.840 that talking about American funders
00:17:25.500 were actually opposing projects
00:17:29.260 in BC and Canada.
00:17:30.820 We had no idea.
00:17:31.500 We just thought it was a way
00:17:33.860 because you got to remember,
00:17:35.040 first nations don't have money.
00:17:37.260 So you just saw it as a bunch
00:17:39.600 of well-meaning organizations
00:17:41.260 that wanted to fund.
00:17:42.620 Yep.
00:17:44.140 But they were funding
00:17:45.060 for a specific reason.
00:17:46.780 Yeah.
00:17:47.000 To stop development.
00:17:48.380 And then that's one of the things
00:17:50.460 that I didn't like
00:17:52.400 is that these organizations
00:17:54.960 knew that we didn't have any money.
00:17:57.620 And so that was the motivating factor
00:18:01.160 behind it.
00:18:02.640 I mean, every one of us
00:18:03.680 were trying to find a way forward
00:18:05.920 for our people.
00:18:06.860 And that's the thing
00:18:07.560 that I want to tell people
00:18:08.540 is that this wasn't an exercise
00:18:13.060 to glorify myself
00:18:15.060 or I didn't want any of that.
00:18:17.440 I just wanted
00:18:18.980 the future First Nations
00:18:20.960 not to go through
00:18:21.700 what I went through.
00:18:23.160 Looking for a job,
00:18:24.560 welfare,
00:18:25.120 unemployment insurance,
00:18:26.000 that cycle over and over and over.
00:18:27.360 So I measure a success
00:18:29.360 on whether or not
00:18:30.360 an individual First Nation
00:18:32.080 can basically
00:18:34.020 defend for themselves
00:18:36.780 in the 21st century.
00:18:39.020 That's my measurement.
00:18:41.800 Everything else I think
00:18:43.160 is good,
00:18:46.160 it's good,
00:18:46.960 it's positive
00:18:47.540 if everything gets affected.
00:18:51.180 But if you don't put
00:18:52.480 the people first
00:18:53.300 in terms of them successful,
00:18:55.060 then I have no interest
00:18:56.600 in being involved
00:18:58.060 in any of that.
00:18:58.600 what we're talking about
00:19:01.000 now though
00:19:01.620 with this memorandum
00:19:02.980 of understanding
00:19:03.820 from
00:19:04.560 between the
00:19:06.060 federal government
00:19:06.920 and the province
00:19:07.500 of Alberta
00:19:08.040 is
00:19:09.640 that there needs
00:19:11.320 to be
00:19:11.820 indigenous
00:19:12.480 equity ownership.
00:19:14.520 And I was at a speech
00:19:15.780 recently with
00:19:16.780 given by
00:19:18.680 Francois Poirier,
00:19:19.540 the CEO
00:19:20.240 of TC Energy.
00:19:21.960 They could be
00:19:22.640 one of the proponents
00:19:23.820 for the pipeline.
00:19:24.420 I'm sure you'd hear
00:19:25.540 a similar language
00:19:26.480 from
00:19:26.920 Greg,
00:19:29.200 I believe it's Greg Eber
00:19:30.140 from Enbridge.
00:19:31.760 Everyone's talking
00:19:32.560 about indigenous
00:19:33.580 equity ownership
00:19:34.480 and partnerships.
00:19:35.740 And so
00:19:36.340 if
00:19:37.420 the pipeline
00:19:38.800 goes through
00:19:39.280 your land,
00:19:40.080 you're going to benefit.
00:19:41.940 Do you take that
00:19:43.280 as
00:19:43.860 a positive
00:19:45.160 step forward
00:19:45.960 or is it tokenism?
00:19:48.840 No,
00:19:49.460 that term
00:19:50.640 has been kicked around
00:19:51.480 for the last
00:19:51.980 15 years at least.
00:19:53.440 but it
00:19:54.880 wasn't
00:19:55.620 characterized
00:19:56.060 as equity.
00:19:57.800 It's characterized
00:19:58.620 in the court ruling,
00:19:59.800 the height of court ruling
00:20:00.540 as accommodation.
00:20:02.660 And the specific
00:20:03.600 clause says
00:20:04.700 that there's
00:20:05.120 an economic
00:20:05.920 component
00:20:06.600 of rights and
00:20:07.200 title that
00:20:07.600 must be addressed.
00:20:09.240 But that's it,
00:20:10.160 it's just that
00:20:10.520 general heading.
00:20:11.480 So you can insert
00:20:12.560 anything that you
00:20:14.260 want into that
00:20:15.080 heading
00:20:15.660 that speaks
00:20:16.980 about economics.
00:20:18.880 And the
00:20:19.500 equity thing
00:20:20.360 is
00:20:20.700 for a first,
00:20:23.980 tell you what,
00:20:24.640 I didn't like
00:20:26.780 the idea of equity
00:20:27.520 for my band
00:20:28.160 and I was chief.
00:20:30.520 There's other bands
00:20:31.480 that are ready
00:20:32.020 for that
00:20:32.480 step,
00:20:33.060 that huge
00:20:33.580 step.
00:20:35.700 I felt that
00:20:36.420 my band
00:20:36.820 wasn't ready.
00:20:37.140 Why wouldn't
00:20:38.380 you want
00:20:39.300 an ownership
00:20:39.920 stake in
00:20:40.640 something that's
00:20:41.300 going to benefit
00:20:41.800 you?
00:20:43.340 Well,
00:20:43.680 it would have
00:20:44.280 benefited me,
00:20:44.920 but I would have
00:20:45.460 had to go
00:20:46.740 and find
00:20:47.080 financing.
00:20:47.560 And I would
00:20:49.780 have had to
00:20:50.100 borrow money
00:20:50.600 and I would
00:20:51.060 have had to
00:20:51.380 pay it back
00:20:51.960 and I would
00:20:52.900 have had to
00:20:53.280 pay interest
00:20:53.880 on that
00:20:55.320 loan.
00:20:57.660 And I
00:20:58.240 didn't feel
00:20:58.980 that my
00:20:59.340 people truly
00:20:59.980 understood that.
00:21:01.880 And so
00:21:02.100 say if I
00:21:02.800 got
00:21:03.040 10%
00:21:05.280 in a pipeline,
00:21:07.060 I was trying
00:21:07.440 to explain,
00:21:08.620 you know,
00:21:08.860 it's not like
00:21:09.580 you can start
00:21:10.240 getting cash
00:21:10.960 handed over
00:21:11.600 fish right
00:21:12.000 away.
00:21:13.240 You know,
00:21:13.780 there's a lot
00:21:14.300 of expenses
00:21:14.880 that got to
00:21:15.200 be paid
00:21:15.720 first.
00:21:16.780 And then
00:21:18.000 you get
00:21:18.300 paid out
00:21:18.700 at a later
00:21:19.040 date.
00:21:19.740 There's a
00:21:20.080 responsibility
00:21:20.800 attached to
00:21:22.160 that.
00:21:23.080 And you've
00:21:23.700 got to
00:21:23.900 define where
00:21:24.460 your liability
00:21:25.080 ends.
00:21:26.900 I mean,
00:21:27.200 I just
00:21:27.920 thought at
00:21:28.680 a future
00:21:29.040 date,
00:21:29.420 I thought
00:21:29.820 we're ready
00:21:30.220 for equity.
00:21:31.780 And it
00:21:32.020 specifically
00:21:33.400 where I
00:21:33.800 thought we'd
00:21:35.380 be ready
00:21:35.700 for it was
00:21:36.180 high-so-cedar
00:21:36.800 on G.
00:21:37.300 That's why we
00:21:37.880 incorporated that
00:21:38.620 into our
00:21:38.940 agreement with
00:21:39.560 LNG
00:21:40.060 Canada.
00:21:41.840 But there
00:21:42.380 were so many
00:21:43.060 things.
00:21:43.540 If I couldn't
00:21:45.660 understand the
00:21:46.140 issues,
00:21:46.780 I didn't
00:21:47.340 feel comfortable
00:21:48.120 giving it to
00:21:50.020 my community
00:21:50.540 to understand
00:21:51.520 it.
00:21:52.720 But do you
00:21:53.000 feel ready
00:21:53.660 now for
00:21:54.820 your community
00:21:55.700 and others
00:21:56.160 in the
00:21:56.440 area?
00:21:57.840 Yeah.
00:21:58.240 I think
00:21:58.620 now we
00:21:59.360 are because
00:22:00.000 we engaged
00:22:01.660 with Chevron
00:22:02.120 and their
00:22:02.420 multi-billion dollar
00:22:03.380 project.
00:22:03.920 We engaged
00:22:04.300 with LNG
00:22:04.920 Canada.
00:22:06.120 We engaged
00:22:07.140 with
00:22:07.300 the
00:22:07.400 Illumina
00:22:08.680 Smelter.
00:22:09.100 I mean,
00:22:10.840 we've been
00:22:11.400 exposed to
00:22:12.840 the business
00:22:13.220 world.
00:22:13.780 We've been
00:22:14.040 exposed to
00:22:14.640 the bigger
00:22:15.140 world.
00:22:16.740 And I
00:22:17.320 don't know
00:22:17.800 about the
00:22:18.500 councils of
00:22:18.980 today,
00:22:19.340 but over
00:22:20.920 the time I
00:22:21.780 was there,
00:22:23.320 it was almost
00:22:23.860 on a daily
00:22:24.360 basis we're
00:22:25.020 learning something
00:22:25.540 new about the
00:22:26.160 economics and
00:22:26.680 the business
00:22:27.000 world.
00:22:28.060 So it was a
00:22:30.080 slow progression,
00:22:30.980 but the results
00:22:31.820 speak for
00:22:32.260 themselves.
00:22:32.580 And I
00:22:32.900 think our
00:22:34.580 band with
00:22:35.160 more educated
00:22:36.060 people getting
00:22:36.780 into our
00:22:37.180 leadership,
00:22:38.300 I think
00:22:38.900 they're more
00:22:40.700 ready to
00:22:41.280 accept and
00:22:41.980 understand the
00:22:43.460 principles behind
00:22:44.180 equity.
00:22:45.740 So you went
00:22:46.980 from being
00:22:47.500 councillor to
00:22:48.380 chief to
00:22:49.260 MLA to
00:22:50.600 MP.
00:22:51.920 You've been
00:22:52.160 looking at some
00:22:52.680 of what you've
00:22:53.060 been saying in
00:22:54.000 the House of
00:22:56.220 Commons and
00:22:57.420 you're still
00:22:57.980 being supportive
00:22:58.620 of this.
00:22:59.140 I know that
00:22:59.780 one of your
00:23:00.600 colleagues,
00:23:01.060 former chief
00:23:03.300 Billy Moran,
00:23:05.140 he was at
00:23:05.660 Premier Smith's
00:23:07.320 announcement.
00:23:08.360 What's your
00:23:08.860 take on her
00:23:10.380 announcement where
00:23:11.980 she was talking
00:23:12.560 about the
00:23:12.940 memorandum of
00:23:14.220 understanding?
00:23:15.280 What's your
00:23:15.920 take on the
00:23:17.500 MOU and the
00:23:18.360 possibility of
00:23:19.660 greater resource
00:23:21.160 development and
00:23:22.080 pipeline going
00:23:23.620 to BC's
00:23:24.420 northwest coast?
00:23:26.660 Well, we
00:23:27.440 signed a lot of
00:23:28.140 MOUs back in
00:23:29.120 my day as
00:23:29.960 chief counselor.
00:23:31.060 And it's
00:23:32.720 basically a
00:23:33.440 promise to
00:23:33.960 talk about
00:23:34.400 something in
00:23:35.680 the future.
00:23:38.120 There's no
00:23:38.760 real definition
00:23:39.620 of what that
00:23:41.500 MOU is actually
00:23:42.320 saying.
00:23:43.780 I mean,
00:23:44.040 there's a lot
00:23:44.820 in that MOU.
00:23:46.000 There's a lot.
00:23:46.800 And it's not
00:23:47.100 just about a
00:23:47.660 pipeline.
00:23:47.900 There's more
00:23:47.920 detail than I'm
00:23:48.600 used to in an
00:23:49.200 MOU, which is
00:23:50.180 part of why I
00:23:51.480 was very
00:23:51.880 skeptical before
00:23:52.640 it came out.
00:23:54.020 And I got to
00:23:54.660 say, I was
00:23:55.800 much more
00:23:56.360 heartened after
00:23:56.980 I saw it
00:23:57.620 because it
00:23:58.020 went, okay,
00:23:58.580 well, there's
00:23:59.020 there's at
00:23:59.940 least some
00:24:00.320 meat here.
00:24:00.940 Yeah, you
00:24:01.220 got to go
00:24:02.280 through some
00:24:02.980 hoops, but
00:24:04.980 I'm hopeful
00:24:06.060 that we can
00:24:06.780 get to a
00:24:07.260 pipeline.
00:24:07.760 I know
00:24:07.880 there's no
00:24:08.200 date attached
00:24:09.200 to exactly
00:24:09.980 when construction
00:24:10.680 starts and
00:24:11.240 all of that.
00:24:11.840 But, you
00:24:12.900 know, a lot
00:24:13.440 of MOUs are
00:24:14.320 just, well,
00:24:16.000 vague language
00:24:16.940 of aspirational
00:24:18.040 goals to one
00:24:19.020 day talk about
00:24:19.780 maybe potentially
00:24:21.060 doing something.
00:24:22.720 Yeah, I
00:24:23.280 agree.
00:24:23.560 but really
00:24:25.480 this time we
00:24:27.260 used the
00:24:27.560 same way.
00:24:28.460 Like you
00:24:28.800 do mention
00:24:29.340 that you
00:24:29.660 had to
00:24:29.860 build a
00:24:30.200 nuclear
00:24:30.480 plant, a
00:24:31.240 functioning
00:24:31.720 nuclear plant
00:24:32.320 by 2050.
00:24:33.940 But the
00:24:34.480 other stuff
00:24:34.900 is kind
00:24:35.700 of vague.
00:24:36.140 You got
00:24:36.380 to help
00:24:36.740 BC develop
00:24:38.740 an economic
00:24:39.160 plan.
00:24:40.460 You got
00:24:40.720 to help
00:24:40.960 BC with
00:24:41.440 their
00:24:41.560 electricity
00:24:41.980 needs.
00:24:44.920 There's a
00:24:45.260 number, like
00:24:46.120 no other
00:24:46.500 proponent I
00:24:47.120 have ever
00:24:47.380 seen has
00:24:48.980 had to
00:24:49.360 commit to
00:24:49.840 these types
00:24:50.240 of provisions.
00:24:50.740 That doesn't
00:24:51.320 really have
00:24:51.660 anything to do
00:24:52.140 with their
00:24:52.540 project.
00:24:53.560 Now I
00:24:53.920 understand
00:24:54.240 it's the
00:24:55.120 government
00:24:55.340 to
00:24:55.500 government
00:24:55.700 basically
00:24:56.160 MOU.
00:24:58.220 But I
00:24:59.800 still say
00:25:00.700 the real
00:25:03.920 initiative
00:25:05.240 will start
00:25:05.840 when an
00:25:06.200 application
00:25:06.580 is made
00:25:07.260 to Canada,
00:25:09.280 the Impact
00:25:09.820 Assessment
00:25:10.240 Agency,
00:25:10.800 and Canada's
00:25:12.340 decision whether
00:25:13.140 or not they
00:25:13.660 transfer that
00:25:14.560 to the Major
00:25:15.340 Process
00:25:15.660 Office.
00:25:16.920 I mean,
00:25:17.160 I think,
00:25:18.220 like even an
00:25:18.840 application that
00:25:19.620 I've seen
00:25:20.040 over the
00:25:20.520 years to
00:25:22.120 Canada or
00:25:23.100 BC,
00:25:23.560 it's not
00:25:24.160 really fully
00:25:24.620 complete.
00:25:26.100 There's some
00:25:26.800 blanks.
00:25:28.640 And normally
00:25:30.080 Canada or
00:25:30.900 BC will
00:25:31.240 accept those
00:25:31.900 applications.
00:25:33.840 But I think
00:25:35.040 we'll get a
00:25:35.500 better idea
00:25:37.020 of what this
00:25:37.720 all means
00:25:38.140 when the
00:25:38.380 application is
00:25:38.900 made.
00:25:39.920 Do you
00:25:40.340 believe that
00:25:41.340 there will
00:25:42.000 be or
00:25:42.560 should be
00:25:43.340 a private
00:25:44.520 sector company
00:25:45.200 come forward
00:25:45.780 on this?
00:25:47.380 Do you
00:25:47.720 believe that
00:25:48.160 a pipeline
00:25:48.780 to the
00:25:49.140 Northwest
00:25:49.380 Coast should
00:25:50.380 go ahead?
00:25:50.840 Yes.
00:25:52.140 I believe
00:25:52.560 it should
00:25:52.960 be in
00:25:53.180 the
00:25:53.280 private
00:25:53.480 sector
00:25:53.780 hands.
00:25:55.580 Trans Mountain
00:25:56.160 was a
00:25:57.340 nightmare
00:25:57.700 of cost
00:25:58.780 overruns
00:25:59.500 and hypocrisy.
00:26:01.860 I don't
00:26:06.000 think the
00:26:06.780 government
00:26:07.060 is truly
00:26:08.020 sincere in
00:26:08.660 trying to
00:26:08.880 get something
00:26:09.300 done based
00:26:09.960 on what
00:26:10.240 their
00:26:10.420 rhetoric
00:26:10.740 and that
00:26:11.920 rhetoric
00:26:12.220 still stands
00:26:12.800 today.
00:26:13.120 We heard
00:26:16.240 the minister
00:26:16.580 say that
00:26:17.140 what we're
00:26:17.940 talking about
00:26:18.400 here in
00:26:18.660 terms of
00:26:18.900 the AMEU
00:26:19.240 has never
00:26:19.540 been done
00:26:19.920 before.
00:26:21.220 Well,
00:26:21.440 yeah,
00:26:21.620 it has.
00:26:23.080 The Trans Mountain
00:26:23.760 pipeline is
00:26:24.440 an example.
00:26:25.120 The ONG Canada
00:26:25.640 pipeline is
00:26:26.220 an example.
00:26:28.020 The
00:26:28.160 certificate for
00:26:28.820 Chevron's
00:26:29.300 project is
00:26:29.860 alive and
00:26:30.300 well and
00:26:31.080 waiting for
00:26:31.740 some other
00:26:32.500 proponent to
00:26:33.080 come along.
00:26:34.500 And in
00:26:34.700 those cases,
00:26:36.420 both levels
00:26:37.660 of government
00:26:38.100 never said
00:26:39.420 that they
00:26:39.800 needed 100%
00:26:40.720 consensus
00:26:41.340 from 100%
00:26:42.600 of the First
00:26:42.960 Nations and
00:26:43.540 they still
00:26:43.940 approved and
00:26:45.000 built their
00:26:45.360 projects.
00:26:46.860 So there's a
00:26:47.820 lot of
00:26:48.040 politics in
00:26:48.860 this yet.
00:26:50.160 So we
00:26:50.920 talked earlier
00:26:51.480 about the
00:26:52.280 fact that
00:26:53.220 there is no
00:26:53.720 veto for
00:26:55.560 an individual
00:26:56.540 ban.
00:26:58.580 But what
00:26:59.820 should be
00:27:00.340 done, you
00:27:01.860 said earlier
00:27:02.900 that you
00:27:04.800 studied closely
00:27:05.520 rights and
00:27:06.040 title.
00:27:06.840 That's a big
00:27:07.340 discussion,
00:27:07.880 especially after
00:27:08.700 Cowichan.
00:27:09.720 But as it
00:27:10.340 relates to a
00:27:11.140 pipeline and a
00:27:11.760 resource project,
00:27:12.600 what is the
00:27:15.880 threshold?
00:27:17.920 I mean, we
00:27:18.960 saw during
00:27:19.440 Northern Gateway
00:27:20.160 that there were
00:27:21.740 31 bands along
00:27:22.680 the route that
00:27:23.280 supported it.
00:27:24.480 And there were
00:27:24.840 people that
00:27:25.260 opposed it.
00:27:26.420 Coastal First
00:27:26.980 Nations, that
00:27:27.700 not-for-profit,
00:27:28.700 not all of the
00:27:29.780 Coastal First
00:27:30.320 Nations, but that
00:27:31.340 not-for-profit based
00:27:32.320 in downtown
00:27:32.820 Vancouver, they
00:27:34.260 opposed it.
00:27:35.360 And Art Sterrett,
00:27:36.260 who was their
00:27:37.680 leader at the
00:27:38.200 time, said if
00:27:38.900 they put even a
00:27:39.940 shovel in the
00:27:40.420 ground, we'll be
00:27:41.020 there to stop
00:27:41.620 them.
00:27:42.760 Who speaks
00:27:43.800 for who?
00:27:44.900 And what is
00:27:45.760 the threshold
00:27:46.280 for saying you've
00:27:47.480 got to have
00:27:47.820 buy-in and
00:27:48.960 consultation?
00:27:52.060 Well, that's
00:27:53.880 the thing, is
00:27:54.560 that the
00:27:55.380 Canadians don't
00:27:56.340 understand who
00:27:58.120 holds rights and
00:27:58.840 title.
00:27:59.100 and if you look
00:28:01.820 at the court
00:28:02.160 cases, it's
00:28:03.760 actually...
00:28:04.380 Because there's
00:28:04.920 no treaties, I
00:28:06.280 think that's up in
00:28:06.980 the air between
00:28:07.540 different First
00:28:08.340 Nations groups as
00:28:09.200 well.
00:28:09.920 What was the
00:28:10.520 stat I heard one
00:28:11.780 time?
00:28:12.060 120% of BC is
00:28:13.720 claimed because
00:28:15.680 it's not settled.
00:28:17.260 Oh yeah, and
00:28:17.780 that's a different
00:28:18.300 issue altogether.
00:28:19.160 But the idea that
00:28:20.160 somehow these
00:28:21.460 representative groups
00:28:22.600 represent rights and
00:28:24.340 title is wrong.
00:28:25.800 They don't represent
00:28:26.920 rights and title.
00:28:27.520 So, it's actually
00:28:29.020 the rights and
00:28:30.180 title is held on
00:28:30.980 behalf of a
00:28:31.480 community.
00:28:33.400 So, my
00:28:34.260 first issue, for
00:28:35.320 example, Haisla,
00:28:36.800 the community
00:28:37.540 actually owns the
00:28:38.780 rights and title.
00:28:40.100 So, it only stands
00:28:41.100 to reason the
00:28:41.780 community's got to
00:28:42.440 decide who
00:28:43.700 represents us in
00:28:45.660 this equation.
00:28:47.540 And for us, it
00:28:48.500 was the elected
00:28:49.640 council.
00:28:51.300 But every
00:28:51.940 community's got to
00:28:52.680 answer that
00:28:53.040 question.
00:28:53.580 But to say that
00:28:54.380 somebody owns the
00:28:57.160 rights and title,
00:28:57.720 whether it be
00:28:58.120 an individual or
00:28:59.340 maybe a representative
00:29:00.560 group, no, that's
00:29:02.820 not right.
00:29:03.960 And so, when it
00:29:04.420 comes down to it, if
00:29:05.300 there's a
00:29:05.860 consultation and
00:29:06.460 accommodation process
00:29:07.240 ever initiated by
00:29:08.300 Canada and BC, then
00:29:10.960 they've got to go talk
00:29:11.900 to the community
00:29:12.320 themselves and find
00:29:13.680 out exactly what
00:29:14.520 they want and how
00:29:15.880 they want to address
00:29:17.140 their rights and
00:29:17.640 title interests.
00:29:19.040 Well, I can just
00:29:20.320 imagine after the
00:29:21.240 vote where you got
00:29:21.920 92% in favor of the
00:29:23.620 LNG project, that
00:29:25.340 CBC would show up
00:29:26.420 and do an
00:29:27.140 in-depth profile on
00:29:28.340 the 8% that said
00:29:29.420 no, rather than
00:29:31.880 the 92% that said
00:29:33.360 yes, and they
00:29:34.440 would say, see, not
00:29:35.860 everyone agrees.
00:29:36.980 And that's part of
00:29:38.220 the problem.
00:29:38.640 And then you've got
00:29:39.220 some groups, and I
00:29:41.400 know, like, so I'm
00:29:43.840 in southern Ontario,
00:29:44.900 this is where I was
00:29:45.420 born and raised, you
00:29:47.400 know, used to know
00:29:48.320 Six Nations, out by
00:29:50.640 Oshwik and fairly
00:29:51.360 well.
00:29:51.680 they've now got the
00:29:53.540 issue of elected
00:29:55.160 band and council,
00:29:56.760 elected chiefs, and
00:29:57.980 hereditary chiefs.
00:29:59.700 I know that's a
00:30:00.240 problem with some in
00:30:02.740 British Columbia.
00:30:03.520 That was part of the
00:30:04.180 problem with Coastal
00:30:05.460 Gas Link, was people
00:30:07.540 showing up and saying,
00:30:08.460 well, yeah, the band
00:30:09.600 approved it, but I'm the
00:30:10.620 hereditary chief, and I
00:30:11.740 say no.
00:30:13.140 How is the government,
00:30:14.340 any government, supposed
00:30:15.580 to deal with that?
00:30:16.540 We can't.
00:30:18.500 And the government, I
00:30:21.300 mean, you can't lay the
00:30:23.960 blame at government's
00:30:25.600 feet for this, because
00:30:27.600 a lot of people don't
00:30:28.640 understand First Nations
00:30:30.000 and their leadership
00:30:30.640 structures.
00:30:32.480 And I never said either
00:30:34.220 way, whether or not it's
00:30:35.600 accredited leadership or
00:30:37.060 elected leadership that
00:30:37.900 should represent
00:30:38.780 rights title.
00:30:40.240 What I said was, it's up
00:30:41.920 to the community to
00:30:42.740 decide who represents
00:30:44.380 them.
00:30:44.620 And I've never seen
00:30:46.520 any type of referendum
00:30:47.820 from any community to
00:30:48.880 talk about that
00:30:49.900 fundamental issue.
00:30:52.860 But when I do go to
00:30:54.240 First Nations and talk
00:30:56.460 to some of the people
00:30:57.660 and they talk about
00:30:58.460 their unemployment, their
00:31:00.320 poverty, their suicide
00:31:02.900 rate, that's one of the
00:31:04.940 things I ask is, so,
00:31:07.140 you know, who represents
00:31:07.900 you?
00:31:09.180 Like, if there's a
00:31:09.860 project coming down the
00:31:11.120 bike, who represents
00:31:11.980 you?
00:31:13.180 And do you guys have an
00:31:14.280 idea of what you
00:31:15.960 want?
00:31:16.340 Because it's really
00:31:19.240 not up to leadership to
00:31:20.300 decide what the
00:31:22.840 people want.
00:31:25.080 You know, a good
00:31:27.480 leader will take
00:31:28.260 everything into
00:31:29.500 consideration for their
00:31:30.540 own community, and
00:31:33.380 it's not going to be
00:31:33.900 a majority, it's not
00:31:34.640 going to be consensus,
00:31:35.620 it's probably going to be
00:31:36.320 a majority, and try to
00:31:37.840 translate that into a
00:31:38.960 plan.
00:31:39.260 And I had to learn
00:31:42.380 this the hard way.
00:31:44.220 You're a different
00:31:44.860 party than Premier
00:31:45.560 David Eby, a different
00:31:46.740 party than Prime
00:31:47.560 Minister Carney,
00:31:49.500 obviously also a
00:31:50.320 different party than
00:31:52.160 Alberta Premier Daniel
00:31:53.320 Smith.
00:31:54.200 But if you're advising
00:31:55.460 all of them on how to
00:31:57.520 approach this going
00:31:59.080 forward, in terms of
00:32:01.420 consultations with
00:32:03.240 First Nations groups,
00:32:04.320 in terms of getting
00:32:05.060 people on side, what's
00:32:06.820 your advice for these
00:32:08.380 three elected leaders?
00:32:11.400 Well, I think Premier
00:32:12.900 Smith is doing a good
00:32:13.700 job.
00:32:16.800 She's not really
00:32:17.820 imposing anything,
00:32:19.060 she's talking to the
00:32:21.600 First Nations, to her
00:32:22.740 ministers, and she's
00:32:25.740 trying to develop a
00:32:26.640 process to kind of get
00:32:28.120 it to BC and understand
00:32:29.460 the issues.
00:32:34.040 Premier Eby is always
00:32:35.820 opposed to everything.
00:32:37.820 Regardless, and if
00:32:38.900 they're outright opposed,
00:32:40.680 then the policies that
00:32:41.720 have been put in place
00:32:42.560 by the NDP have
00:32:43.360 actually restricted
00:32:44.160 resources to dongle,
00:32:44.980 like mining, for
00:32:45.640 instance.
00:32:46.780 John Horgan, the late
00:32:47.960 John Horgan, referred to
00:32:49.620 people like David Eby as
00:32:51.420 part of the Mudhut
00:32:52.260 Brigade of his party.
00:32:54.400 They've always been
00:32:55.240 opposed to everything.
00:32:58.720 Horgan could accept a
00:33:00.820 certain degree of
00:33:01.600 resource development and
00:33:02.940 he's an old blue
00:33:04.020 collar guy, but he
00:33:05.320 referred to guys like
00:33:06.140 Eby as the Mudhut
00:33:06.920 Brigade.
00:33:08.280 You know, let's think
00:33:08.640 about, like, the NDP
00:33:09.800 opposed LNG, right?
00:33:11.380 And then it became the
00:33:12.100 government, they gave him
00:33:13.060 a PST tax break and a
00:33:14.880 cap on the carbon tax.
00:33:17.220 But what really impressed
00:33:18.140 me about John Horgan was
00:33:20.640 when they approved it, he
00:33:23.820 never hesitated to point me
00:33:25.400 out as being one of the
00:33:27.460 architects of LNG.
00:33:28.360 like, that was impressive as a
00:33:32.500 political leader.
00:33:33.600 He really impressed me with
00:33:34.740 that.
00:33:34.980 But the advice I'd give to
00:33:36.580 Prime Minister Carney is
00:33:38.220 stop flip-flopping on what
00:33:42.720 you're saying to First
00:33:43.600 Nations, given what day it
00:33:46.900 is or where you are.
00:33:47.820 One day you say you'll only
00:33:50.360 do it with a consensus or
00:33:52.800 national consensus.
00:33:53.660 Next day you'll say there's no
00:33:54.600 veto.
00:33:54.840 Then you'll go back to
00:33:56.320 consensus and, I mean, the
00:33:58.660 consensus word is in the
00:34:00.000 case law.
00:34:00.560 It's there, but only in
00:34:01.940 certain situations.
00:34:03.800 But the case law is pretty
00:34:04.960 explicit.
00:34:06.400 There's no veto.
00:34:08.720 And so, you know, the
00:34:11.280 liberals dancing around this
00:34:13.220 term of consensus.
00:34:15.760 It's doing a disservice to
00:34:17.200 Canadians and it's doing a
00:34:18.580 disservice to First Nations
00:34:19.460 alike.
00:34:20.080 And it's not going to get us
00:34:21.580 to be the best-performed
00:34:24.280 country in the
00:34:24.820 G7.
00:34:25.380 It's not going to get us to
00:34:26.280 be an energy superpower and
00:34:28.080 it's not going to get us
00:34:29.100 away from the tariffs that
00:34:30.740 President Trump is imposing
00:34:32.380 on us.
00:34:33.820 So, pick an idea, pick a
00:34:37.920 statement.
00:34:38.400 What is it?
00:34:38.980 Is it consensus?
00:34:39.840 Is it veto?
00:34:40.560 What is it?
00:34:43.540 Well, it's interesting you've
00:34:45.180 picked up that the liberals
00:34:46.320 have about five different
00:34:47.600 lines, depending on who
00:34:49.020 they're talking to.
00:34:50.400 Ellis, thanks so much for the
00:34:51.560 time.
00:34:51.820 Great talking to you again.
00:34:52.700 We'll do it sooner rather
00:34:54.000 than later next time.
00:34:55.020 Thank you very much.
00:34:56.060 Full Comment is a post-media
00:34:57.660 podcast.
00:34:58.340 My name's Brian Lilly, your
00:34:59.440 host.
00:35:00.060 This episode was produced by
00:35:01.480 Andre Pru, theme music by
00:35:03.020 Bryce Hall.
00:35:03.940 Kevin Libin is the executive
00:35:05.600 producer.
00:35:06.700 Make sure that you leave us a
00:35:07.740 comment, help us out with a
00:35:09.140 subscription or a review, and
00:35:11.280 let your friends know all about
00:35:12.420 us.
00:35:12.880 Until next time, I'm Brian Lilly.
00:35:14.760 Here's that clip from Canada did
00:35:20.940 what?
00:35:21.580 I promised you.
00:35:24.740 In the late 1960s, you have
00:35:27.000 members of the Montreal police
00:35:28.500 who can spend their entire shift
00:35:30.580 rushing from one FLQ bombing to
00:35:33.500 another.
00:35:34.620 Here's how New Year's Eve 1968
00:35:36.900 played out for Robert Cote, a
00:35:39.160 member of the Montreal police
00:35:40.400 bomb squad, which put him at the
00:35:42.440 forefront of fighting the FLQ
00:35:44.340 during this period.
00:35:45.660 He was supposed to be at home
00:35:47.240 with his wife, who had just
00:35:48.400 miscarried twin daughters.
00:35:50.540 But instead, at 11pm, he's
00:35:52.580 called out to Montreal City Hall
00:35:54.080 to investigate a bomb that had
00:35:55.960 just gone off.
00:35:57.200 He's en route with sirens blaring
00:35:58.920 when he's told, actually, don't
00:36:00.940 bother with the exploded bomb.
00:36:02.700 There's an unexploded bomb on the
00:36:04.560 other side of City Hall you have to
00:36:06.280 defuse.
00:36:08.000 And then, right after snipping the
00:36:09.840 wires on the City Hall bomb, Cote
00:36:12.080 has to speed west, where a third
00:36:14.440 bomb has just exploded outside a
00:36:16.500 federal building.
00:36:18.180 The bombing started in April and
00:36:21.060 May of 1963.
00:36:23.400 That's when the first bombings took
00:36:24.760 place.
00:36:25.260 And the mailbox bombings were the
00:36:27.260 most famous part of the whole
00:36:28.800 thing, which was basically on the
00:36:31.660 Thursday night and Friday night
00:36:33.340 leading into the Victoria Day
00:36:35.260 weekend in 1963.
00:36:36.760 So, initially, they started attacking
00:36:40.860 these symbols of federalism, federal
00:36:43.360 institutions, whether it was the
00:36:44.600 Montreal Post Office or Revenue
00:36:46.580 Canada.
00:36:47.880 But the bombings escalated as time went
00:36:50.520 on in terms of the size of the bombs
00:36:53.980 and the powerfulness of these bombs.
00:36:55.880 If you want to hear the rest of the
00:36:59.420 story, make sure you subscribe to
00:37:01.440 Canada Did What?
00:37:02.800 Everywhere you get your podcasts.