Full Comment - Say hello to pro-pipeline First Nations in B.C.

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00:00:30.000 It's been a little over a week since Prime Minister Mark Carney sat down with Alberta Premier Danielle Smith

00:00:37.960 and signed the Memorandum of Understanding about the future of Alberta's energy sector.

00:00:43.400 In that time, there's been a lot of confusing messages about what that MOU means,

00:00:47.840 what comes next, who needs to be consulted, and where we go from here.

00:00:52.240 Hello and welcome to the Full Comment Podcast.

00:00:54.040 My name is Brian Lilly, your host, and today we're going to try and figure out what it does all mean.

00:00:59.020 And in the second half, you'll get to hear an interview with someone who will answer a lot of questions

00:01:04.240 on the First Nations part of all of this, about consultation, and specifically all about what this group

00:01:10.980 you keep hearing about, Coastal First Nations, is really all about.

00:01:13.880 The group that says they'll never allow a pipeline.

00:01:16.740 Well, who are they and can they stop it?

00:01:18.960 The answer to that last question is no, but more on that later.

00:01:23.160 On the day when the deal was signed, there were lots of smiles, especially from Alberta Premier Danielle Smith.

00:01:29.120 Today is a great day for the people of Alberta and for all of Canada.

00:01:32.500 The last 10 years have been an extremely difficult time for hundreds of thousands of Albertans

00:01:37.120 and their families that directly or indirectly rely on and make their living from a strong and vibrant

00:01:43.400 and growing Alberta oil and gas sector.

00:01:45.540 These Albertans are mothers and fathers and young people working so hard to put food on the table,

00:01:50.340 to pay for hockey and soccer fees, and to save for the down payment on their first home.

00:01:55.340 Prime Minister Mark Carney, meanwhile, was trying to walk a balancing act,

00:01:59.560 trying to make it seem like, yes, he had actually given lots to Alberta,

00:02:02.740 but also trying to make it seem like he hadn't given too much and definitely not a pipeline yet.

00:02:08.800 Prime Minister, are you willing to approve a pipeline even if British Columbia or affected First Nations don't agree?

00:02:16.780 Would you compensate them instead?

00:02:18.640 Well, just to be clear, this agreement today between Alberta and the government of Canada,

00:02:25.320 it's the first step.

00:02:27.040 It's an example of cooperative federalism.

00:02:29.640 We're agreeing in partnership.

00:02:31.080 And in a spirit of trust.

00:02:34.500 But what has to happen, several things have to happen, before a pipeline is built.

00:02:39.620 And one of those is a private sector proponent.

00:02:42.540 Secondly, it goes directly to your question, which is that there needs to be full partnership,

00:02:48.900 including equity ownership, substantial economic benefits with First Nations,

00:02:53.940 First Nations in Alberta, First Nations in British Columbia,

00:02:56.580 as well as agreement and substantial economic benefits for the people of British Columbia.

00:03:02.620 So we look at this as the start of a process.

00:03:06.360 We've created some of the necessary conditions for this to happen.

00:03:10.440 But there's a lot more work to do.

00:03:12.060 And while Carney has said multiple times that this is about more than a pipeline,

00:03:15.760 that's really all anyone is talking about, a pipeline and whether it will get built.

00:03:20.660 There's plenty of skepticism, but I remain hopeful, as does Premier Smith.

00:03:25.480 You asked me a few months ago, do you think you should restart the conversation about building a pipeline to the B.C. coast?

00:03:30.620 No one would have even thought that that was going to even be possible to begin the conversation.

00:03:35.360 And now it's begun.

00:03:36.040 And so I think that that is really a measure of just how much the recalibration in the global economy

00:03:41.940 and the recalibration in Canada has been over the past year.

00:03:45.100 That's a clip of Premier Danielle Smith from an interview that I conducted with her the day after the announcement.

00:03:50.780 One of the things that I put to her was a claim by critics that this deal was not really about getting a pipeline to the northwest coast,

00:03:58.980 that Mark Carney really just wants to reboot Keystone XL.

00:04:02.120 The MOU very clearly talks about a million barrel a day bitumen pipeline to Asian markets

00:04:08.760 and the need to potentially have a tanker band car vote.

00:04:12.780 And so that doesn't go through Galveston, Texas?

00:04:16.400 You don't need a tanker band car vote to go down to Galveston, Texas.

00:04:19.460 Premier Smith is convinced that this is a good deal for Alberta.

00:04:23.020 So Stephen Guibault, who quit the Carney cabinet over it,

00:04:26.080 and other climate advisors have also quit advising Carney as well.

00:04:29.860 And for those staying in the fold, like Liberal MP Tlaib Nur-Muhammad from the lower mainland around Vancouver,

00:04:37.320 well, he's trying hard to downplay all of this.

00:04:40.420 In a post on X, he said, well, it sounded like he was trying to rewrite the MOU.

00:04:45.300 Quote,

00:04:45.540 Any project that goes through the major project's office must have B.C. and First Nations consent,

00:04:52.040 and we will all work to ensure our B.C. coast is protected.

00:04:55.480 None of that's actually true.

00:04:58.460 There's no need for consent from B.C. or First Nations.

00:05:02.020 Definitely, that is not in the MOU.

00:05:04.980 But Liberals have continued to try and say there's no private sector partner and no proposal,

00:05:09.340 as if to say that, well, it'll always be that way.

00:05:13.380 Premier Smith, meanwhile, is saying that she's working hard with the private sector to find a backer.

00:05:19.420 Then, of course, there are the issues around First Nations.

00:05:21.840 Prime Minister Carney did address the Assembly of First Nations and promised them a partnership.

00:05:26.660 Canada's new government is committed to working directly with you to build stronger nation-to-nation relationships,

00:05:35.620 for it's only by working together that we can build stronger, more prosperous First Nations communities

00:05:43.100 and a stronger, more resilient Canada.

00:05:46.340 I am pleased to announce that I will host, early in the new year,

00:05:52.000 a joint federal-provincial-territorial First Ministers meeting with First Nations.

00:06:03.160 The AFN passed a resolution calling for the MOU to be rescinded,

00:06:07.620 and there was strong pipeline opposition at the meeting.

00:06:10.020 Then there's this group that I mentioned earlier, the one we keep hearing about,

00:06:14.540 Coastal First Nations.

00:06:16.080 Sounds like a band or a collection of bands,

00:06:18.700 and that's how many in the media portray this group.

00:06:21.620 But the reality is, it's a Vancouver-based not-for-profit,

00:06:25.600 originally started with the help of American money from foundations

00:06:28.640 that oppose the oil and gas industry in Canada.

00:06:31.840 And while this group does have support in some First Nations communities,

00:06:35.160 they don't represent all of them, and especially not all Coastal First Nations communities,

00:06:40.260 and most importantly, they don't hold right or title to any of the land under discussion.

00:06:46.320 There's a lot more to be said on this issue and a long way to go before anything moves forward,

00:06:50.920 but that's some of what's happened.

00:06:52.520 As for the Indigenous part of all this, that's what we'll get to when we come back. 1.00

00:06:56.880 An interview with a former chief of an actual Coastal First Nation

00:07:00.420 who supports the Pipeline project and now sits in the House of Commons as an MP.

00:07:06.300 My discussion with Ellis Ross when we return.

00:07:09.140 This is Tristan Hopper, the host of Canada Did What?,

00:07:11.800 where we unpack the biggest, weirdest, and wildest political moments in Canadian history

00:07:16.560 you thought you knew and tell you what really happened.

00:07:20.080 Stick around at the end of the episode to hear a sample of one of our favourite episodes.

00:07:24.620 If you don't want to stick around, make sure you subscribe to Canada Did What?

00:07:28.620 It's everywhere you get podcasts.

00:07:30.980 Ellis Ross is a member of the Hysla First Nation near Kitimat, British Columbia.

00:07:35.060 He's currently sitting as a Conservative MP for Skeena-Bulkley Valley out of British Columbia,

00:07:39.660 and before that, he served as the MLA for the region in the provincial legislature from 2017 to 2024.

00:07:47.080 Before that, he was on his band council, even serving as chief in two different elections.

00:07:52.260 As far back as 2006, he helped negotiate deals to bring liquefied natural gas projects to his region,

00:07:58.160 to help with economic development.

00:08:00.660 Here's my discussion with Ellis Ross.

00:08:03.240 So, Ellis, let me ask you to break apart this myth that all First Nations are opposed to resource development,

00:08:12.140 that no one wants a pipeline.

00:08:15.100 You and I have talked about this before, not in a long time,

00:08:18.000 but I don't think your views have changed on this.

00:08:21.120 No.

00:08:22.240 No.

00:08:22.680 And in fact, many First Nations are trying to find a way out of poverty,

00:08:26.660 trying to find a way to get away from the Indian Act, 0.94

00:08:29.620 and they'll look at anything, basically.

00:08:33.160 But you're never going to get 100% consensus on anything,

00:08:36.760 whether you're talking about forestry, mining, pipelines.

00:08:40.240 You're not going to get it.

00:08:41.240 Even my own community, the last LNG agreement that we voted on,

00:08:46.620 based on 100% communication, was 92% in favor.

00:08:51.400 I couldn't get that last 8%.

00:08:53.480 That's amazing, 92% in favor.

00:08:56.680 I mean, to get 92% of a community to agree on anything, of any community,

00:09:02.260 can we agree on what aid is?

00:09:05.060 It took years.

00:09:06.180 And we had a lot of oppositional groups.

00:09:11.660 We had the NDP that opposed it.

00:09:13.460 We had misinformation.

00:09:14.940 We had all sorts of things.

00:09:16.620 So we developed a fulsome communication plan

00:09:19.200 to get the truth to our people.

00:09:23.340 And so that was 2011 to 2014, roughly,

00:09:28.040 is when you were working on that, correct?

00:09:30.640 I actually started on the LNG files back in 2004

00:09:34.220 for the original Chevron KMLG project.

00:09:38.220 But I also worked on the forestry files and some mining files,

00:09:43.040 government duration files.

00:09:45.260 But it was always on the foundation of aboriginal rights and title and economics.

00:09:51.360 Now, you said so many communities want to get away from the Indian Act.

00:09:57.300 What do you mean by that?

00:09:58.280 Because that was part of, when you were a counselor,

00:10:00.880 when you were a chief counselor, that was part of what you wanted to do.

00:10:05.200 Explain what that means for people that don't know.

00:10:08.300 A lot of Canadians don't even know it.

00:10:10.440 They know the Indian Act exists,

00:10:11.920 but they don't know what's in it or why you'd want to get away from it.

00:10:15.440 The Indian Act is an archaic, old-fashioned act 1.00

00:10:19.600 that the Canadian government instituted 100 years ago.

00:10:25.440 And basically, I shouldn't say get away from the Indian Act.

00:10:29.500 I wanted to get away from the Indian Act funding.

00:10:32.140 That's what I wanted to do.

00:10:33.160 Because when I looked at it, a lot of the Indian Act, it's not relevant.

00:10:40.620 But the Indian Act funding agreements,

00:10:43.140 when our people were saying that they wanted jobs,

00:10:46.580 they want independence,

00:10:49.020 one of the things I realized is that, okay, if you want independence,

00:10:52.500 then you've got to start earning your own money.

00:10:54.540 You've got to get away from this Indian Act funding agreement.

00:10:56.520 And Indian Act funding agreements actually fall into five categories

00:11:00.580 based on how well you are at managing money.

00:11:03.140 So if you're not managing your money very well

00:11:08.100 and your funding agreement, you're not implementing very well,

00:11:12.160 then you get put into the category where the federal government

00:11:15.700 actually oversees every single expenditure you make.

00:11:20.940 They approve it.

00:11:21.880 You do tons of reporting.

00:11:23.360 But the more that you manage your funding better,

00:11:28.040 then you go into progressively less lenient funding structures.

00:11:33.520 So that's what my band undertook.

00:11:35.480 So by the end of it,

00:11:36.220 we were offered the first ever 10-year block funding agreement in Canada

00:11:40.540 because we showed them that we can manage money.

00:11:43.860 We got out of deficit.

00:11:45.780 We got out of that.

00:11:48.140 But my point always was that

00:11:50.080 if you need $100 to run your village,

00:11:54.620 the government under the Indian Act will give you $80.

00:11:58.020 And I didn't like the idea of going around

00:12:00.600 to ask for money for that remaining $20,

00:12:04.700 whether I was talking about renovating my rec center

00:12:07.220 or trying to build a youth program

00:12:09.600 or trying to build an elders program.

00:12:11.280 So I decided to go full on

00:12:15.640 and going towards economic development.

00:12:18.060 And it worked because our people

00:12:19.400 became independent at the same time.

00:12:22.480 Now, so your community in Kinemat,

00:12:24.780 around Kinemat, the Heisla First Nation,

00:12:27.560 you would be something between a provincial government

00:12:31.980 and a municipal government

00:12:33.640 in terms of services that you were delivering.

00:12:37.420 What was it that made you say,

00:12:39.260 you know what, we got to get behind

00:12:40.780 these LNG projects

00:12:42.760 and these other resource development projects?

00:12:46.260 It wasn't me, actually.

00:12:48.020 It was our council.

00:12:49.700 I actually opposed LNG in the beginning.

00:12:52.920 I opposed forestry and mining.

00:12:54.640 I opposed the aluminum smelter

00:12:56.140 that was already there for 60 years.

00:12:57.720 But one of my counselors told me that

00:13:02.600 I really should look at our social issues

00:13:04.360 before I make a decision.

00:13:06.900 So I did.

00:13:08.560 And I was shocked that the way I grew up

00:13:11.240 as a young man on reserve looking for a job

00:13:13.760 was how many First Nations

00:13:16.040 experience all across Canada.

00:13:19.420 and I'm in love with all the social issues

00:13:22.720 that get attached to poverty.

00:13:27.220 So I slowly changed my approach.

00:13:30.340 But what really galvanized it

00:13:32.500 was when I saw the changes in people

00:13:35.860 when they got a job

00:13:36.900 and we didn't have to develop programs

00:13:41.400 for them anymore.

00:13:42.560 They just wanted to do things on their own.

00:13:45.240 They wanted to buy a house.

00:13:46.400 They wanted to buy a van.

00:13:47.500 They wanted to go on vacation.

00:13:50.240 And so all I did

00:13:52.300 when I became chief was saying,

00:13:53.840 how can I duplicate that

00:13:55.140 on a scale that affects everybody?

00:13:58.200 How can I do that?

00:14:00.000 Instead of this mismatch

00:14:01.780 of different initiatives here and there.

00:14:04.040 So when you started out,

00:14:05.340 you were more on the line of,

00:14:07.100 well, look, we should get more

00:14:08.900 because they owe us

00:14:09.900 and you move to a hold on.

00:14:13.820 We can be the masters of our own domain

00:14:16.960 if we go this way.

00:14:18.420 Yeah.

00:14:19.760 And it wasn't an overnight

00:14:21.340 aha moment.

00:14:22.980 It wasn't like that.

00:14:23.720 I read the Indian Act.

00:14:25.460 I read reports from all over Canada

00:14:27.260 from First Nations.

00:14:28.040 I read reports on poverty

00:14:29.760 from all over the world.

00:14:32.180 And I studied different governance systems.

00:14:36.460 And I looked at extreme poverty.

00:14:39.260 I looked at poverty in India,

00:14:41.640 South America.

00:14:43.400 I looked at poverty in the United States.

00:14:46.500 And I could see the comparisons

00:14:48.820 in terms of what we were facing.

00:14:51.140 And so I broke away from the narrative

00:14:53.440 of saying no to economic development,

00:14:55.580 saying no to government,

00:14:57.000 and started to really understand

00:14:58.960 the connection of the right-style case law

00:15:01.280 under Section 35

00:15:02.180 and under the umbrella

00:15:04.340 of a country like Canada.

00:15:06.940 But it took at least a few years

00:15:09.920 for me to put it all together.

00:15:11.840 So we're hearing a lot of voices

00:15:16.540 who are opposed to economic development

00:15:19.380 and resource development

00:15:20.640 and resource extraction

00:15:22.660 being amplified right now.

00:15:24.320 I mean, this is everywhere.

00:15:26.360 And one group that I point to

00:15:28.120 is coastal First Nations,

00:15:29.600 which sounds like,

00:15:31.140 well, it represents all the First Nations

00:15:33.440 along the coast.

00:15:34.520 But this is a specific group.

00:15:38.280 They're a not-for-profit organization

00:15:40.060 that has some representation

00:15:42.180 of First Nations groups

00:15:44.500 along the coast,

00:15:45.180 but not all.

00:15:45.740 But we keep hearing that group say,

00:15:49.400 there will be no pipeline.

00:15:53.980 We will not allow this.

00:15:55.340 We are all opposed to it.

00:15:57.900 You know, I've looked into these guys, Alice,

00:16:01.320 and first off, it started out as a group

00:16:03.980 called the Great Barron Initiative Society,

00:16:06.740 funded by American foundations,

00:16:10.420 American foundations who have always been

00:16:12.720 opposed to Canadian resource development,

00:16:15.540 whether it's forestry,

00:16:16.520 whether it's mining,

00:16:17.420 whether it's oil and gas.

00:16:19.700 And so they fund this group

00:16:21.500 and then this becomes the,

00:16:23.240 well, here's the First Nations group

00:16:24.600 that opposes it.

00:16:26.400 What would be your message

00:16:27.460 to people within First Nations communities

00:16:30.160 specifically?

00:16:30.940 Canadians writ large,

00:16:32.220 but also specifically to people

00:16:34.220 in First Nations communities

00:16:35.460 who are looking at this and saying,

00:16:36.980 well, I guess we should protect everything, right?

00:16:39.460 Because that's the better way forward.

00:16:41.480 I mean, you went on this journey yourself.

00:16:43.860 What would your message be

00:16:46.620 to someone who is leaning towards that?

00:16:51.860 We used to be part of that organization.

00:16:54.300 I was actually on the executive at that time.

00:16:56.860 And I understood where the money came from.

00:17:00.180 It came from American foundations

00:17:01.860 that you mentioned,

00:17:02.520 like the Moore Foundation in the United States.

00:17:05.400 But at that time, when I was a part of it,

00:17:07.440 we were trying to get away from the idea

00:17:11.040 that the David Suzuki Foundation

00:17:12.700 would accept the funding

00:17:15.040 and then forward it on to us.

00:17:16.440 We were trying to make it

00:17:17.180 as a direct link to ours.

00:17:19.520 But we had no idea

00:17:20.540 of the narrative out there

00:17:22.840 that talking about American funders

00:17:25.500 were actually opposing projects

00:17:29.260 in BC and Canada.

00:17:30.820 We had no idea.

00:17:31.500 We just thought it was a way

00:17:33.860 because you got to remember,

00:17:35.040 first nations don't have money.

00:17:37.260 So you just saw it as a bunch

00:17:39.600 of well-meaning organizations

00:17:41.260 that wanted to fund.

00:17:42.620 Yep.

00:17:44.140 But they were funding

00:17:45.060 for a specific reason.

00:17:46.780 Yeah.

00:17:47.000 To stop development.

00:17:48.380 And then that's one of the things

00:17:50.460 that I didn't like

00:17:52.400 is that these organizations

00:17:54.960 knew that we didn't have any money.

00:17:57.620 And so that was the motivating factor

00:18:01.160 behind it.

00:18:02.640 I mean, every one of us

00:18:03.680 were trying to find a way forward

00:18:05.920 for our people.

00:18:06.860 And that's the thing

00:18:07.560 that I want to tell people

00:18:08.540 is that this wasn't an exercise

00:18:13.060 to glorify myself

00:18:15.060 or I didn't want any of that.

00:18:17.440 I just wanted

00:18:18.980 the future First Nations

00:18:20.960 not to go through

00:18:21.700 what I went through.

00:18:23.160 Looking for a job,

00:18:24.560 welfare,

00:18:25.120 unemployment insurance,

00:18:26.000 that cycle over and over and over.

00:18:27.360 So I measure a success

00:18:29.360 on whether or not

00:18:30.360 an individual First Nation

00:18:32.080 can basically

00:18:34.020 defend for themselves

00:18:36.780 in the 21st century.

00:18:39.020 That's my measurement.

00:18:41.800 Everything else I think

00:18:43.160 is good,

00:18:46.160 it's good,

00:18:46.960 it's positive

00:18:47.540 if everything gets affected.

00:18:51.180 But if you don't put

00:18:52.480 the people first

00:18:53.300 in terms of them successful,

00:18:55.060 then I have no interest

00:18:56.600 in being involved

00:18:58.060 in any of that.

00:18:58.600 what we're talking about

00:19:01.000 now though

00:19:01.620 with this memorandum

00:19:02.980 of understanding

00:19:03.820 from

00:19:04.560 between the

00:19:06.060 federal government

00:19:06.920 and the province

00:19:07.500 of Alberta

00:19:08.040 is

00:19:09.640 that there needs

00:19:11.320 to be

00:19:11.820 indigenous

00:19:12.480 equity ownership.

00:19:14.520 And I was at a speech

00:19:15.780 recently with

00:19:16.780 given by

00:19:18.680 Francois Poirier,

00:19:19.540 the CEO

00:19:20.240 of TC Energy.

00:19:21.960 They could be

00:19:22.640 one of the proponents

00:19:23.820 for the pipeline.

00:19:24.420 I'm sure you'd hear

00:19:25.540 a similar language

00:19:26.480 from

00:19:26.920 Greg,

00:19:29.200 I believe it's Greg Eber

00:19:30.140 from Enbridge.

00:19:31.760 Everyone's talking

00:19:32.560 about indigenous

00:19:33.580 equity ownership

00:19:34.480 and partnerships.

00:19:35.740 And so

00:19:36.340 if

00:19:37.420 the pipeline

00:19:38.800 goes through

00:19:39.280 your land,

00:19:40.080 you're going to benefit.

00:19:41.940 Do you take that

00:19:43.280 as

00:19:43.860 a positive

00:19:45.160 step forward

00:19:45.960 or is it tokenism?

00:19:48.840 No,

00:19:49.460 that term

00:19:50.640 has been kicked around

00:19:51.480 for the last

00:19:51.980 15 years at least.

00:19:53.440 but it

00:19:54.880 wasn't

00:19:55.620 characterized

00:19:56.060 as equity.

00:19:57.800 It's characterized

00:19:58.620 in the court ruling,

00:19:59.800 the height of court ruling

00:20:00.540 as accommodation.

00:20:02.660 And the specific

00:20:03.600 clause says

00:20:04.700 that there's

00:20:05.120 an economic

00:20:05.920 component

00:20:06.600 of rights and

00:20:07.200 title that

00:20:07.600 must be addressed.

00:20:09.240 But that's it,

00:20:10.160 it's just that

00:20:10.520 general heading.

00:20:11.480 So you can insert

00:20:12.560 anything that you

00:20:14.260 want into that

00:20:15.080 heading

00:20:15.660 that speaks

00:20:16.980 about economics.

00:20:18.880 And the

00:20:19.500 equity thing

00:20:20.360 is

00:20:20.700 for a first,

00:20:23.980 tell you what,

00:20:24.640 I didn't like

00:20:26.780 the idea of equity

00:20:27.520 for my band

00:20:28.160 and I was chief.

00:20:30.520 There's other bands

00:20:31.480 that are ready

00:20:32.020 for that

00:20:32.480 step,

00:20:33.060 that huge

00:20:33.580 step.

00:20:35.700 I felt that

00:20:36.420 my band

00:20:36.820 wasn't ready.

00:20:37.140 Why wouldn't

00:20:38.380 you want

00:20:39.300 an ownership

00:20:39.920 stake in

00:20:40.640 something that's

00:20:41.300 going to benefit

00:20:41.800 you?

00:20:43.340 Well,

00:20:43.680 it would have

00:20:44.280 benefited me,

00:20:44.920 but I would have

00:20:45.460 had to go

00:20:46.740 and find

00:20:47.080 financing.

00:20:47.560 And I would

00:20:49.780 have had to

00:20:50.100 borrow money

00:20:50.600 and I would

00:20:51.060 have had to

00:20:51.380 pay it back

00:20:51.960 and I would

00:20:52.900 have had to

00:20:53.280 pay interest

00:20:53.880 on that

00:20:55.320 loan.

00:20:57.660 And I

00:20:58.240 didn't feel

00:20:58.980 that my

00:20:59.340 people truly

00:20:59.980 understood that.

00:21:01.880 And so

00:21:02.100 say if I

00:21:02.800 got

00:21:03.040 10%

00:21:05.280 in a pipeline,

00:21:07.060 I was trying

00:21:07.440 to explain,

00:21:08.620 you know,

00:21:08.860 it's not like

00:21:09.580 you can start

00:21:10.240 getting cash

00:21:10.960 handed over

00:21:11.600 fish right

00:21:12.000 away.

00:21:13.240 You know,

00:21:13.780 there's a lot

00:21:14.300 of expenses

00:21:14.880 that got to

00:21:15.200 be paid

00:21:15.720 first.

00:21:16.780 And then

00:21:18.000 you get

00:21:18.300 paid out

00:21:18.700 at a later

00:21:19.040 date.

00:21:19.740 There's a

00:21:20.080 responsibility

00:21:20.800 attached to

00:21:22.160 that.

00:21:23.080 And you've

00:21:23.700 got to

00:21:23.900 define where

00:21:24.460 your liability

00:21:25.080 ends.

00:21:26.900 I mean,

00:21:27.200 I just

00:21:27.920 thought at

00:21:28.680 a future

00:21:29.040 date,

00:21:29.420 I thought

00:21:29.820 we're ready

00:21:30.220 for equity.

00:21:31.780 And it

00:21:32.020 specifically

00:21:33.400 where I

00:21:33.800 thought we'd

00:21:35.380 be ready

00:21:35.700 for it was

00:21:36.180 high-so-cedar

00:21:36.800 on G.

00:21:37.300 That's why we

00:21:37.880 incorporated that

00:21:38.620 into our

00:21:38.940 agreement with

00:21:39.560 LNG

00:21:40.060 Canada.

00:21:41.840 But there

00:21:42.380 were so many

00:21:43.060 things.

00:21:43.540 If I couldn't

00:21:45.660 understand the

00:21:46.140 issues,

00:21:46.780 I didn't

00:21:47.340 feel comfortable

00:21:48.120 giving it to

00:21:50.020 my community

00:21:50.540 to understand

00:21:51.520 it.

00:21:52.720 But do you

00:21:53.000 feel ready

00:21:53.660 now for

00:21:54.820 your community

00:21:55.700 and others

00:21:56.160 in the

00:21:56.440 area?

00:21:57.840 Yeah.

00:21:58.240 I think

00:21:58.620 now we

00:21:59.360 are because

00:22:00.000 we engaged

00:22:01.660 with Chevron

00:22:02.120 and their

00:22:02.420 multi-billion dollar

00:22:03.380 project.

00:22:03.920 We engaged

00:22:04.300 with LNG

00:22:04.920 Canada.

00:22:06.120 We engaged

00:22:07.140 with

00:22:07.300 the

00:22:07.400 Illumina

00:22:08.680 Smelter.

00:22:09.100 I mean,

00:22:10.840 we've been

00:22:11.400 exposed to

00:22:12.840 the business

00:22:13.220 world.

00:22:13.780 We've been

00:22:14.040 exposed to

00:22:14.640 the bigger

00:22:15.140 world.

00:22:16.740 And I

00:22:17.320 don't know

00:22:17.800 about the

00:22:18.500 councils of

00:22:18.980 today,

00:22:19.340 but over

00:22:20.920 the time I

00:22:21.780 was there,

00:22:23.320 it was almost

00:22:23.860 on a daily

00:22:24.360 basis we're

00:22:25.020 learning something

00:22:25.540 new about the

00:22:26.160 economics and

00:22:26.680 the business

00:22:27.000 world.

00:22:28.060 So it was a

00:22:30.080 slow progression,

00:22:30.980 but the results

00:22:31.820 speak for

00:22:32.260 themselves.

00:22:32.580 And I

00:22:32.900 think our

00:22:34.580 band with

00:22:35.160 more educated

00:22:36.060 people getting

00:22:36.780 into our

00:22:37.180 leadership,

00:22:38.300 I think

00:22:38.900 they're more

00:22:40.700 ready to

00:22:41.280 accept and

00:22:41.980 understand the

00:22:43.460 principles behind

00:22:44.180 equity.

00:22:45.740 So you went

00:22:46.980 from being

00:22:47.500 councillor to

00:22:48.380 chief to

00:22:49.260 MLA to

00:22:50.600 MP.

00:22:51.920 You've been

00:22:52.160 looking at some

00:22:52.680 of what you've

00:22:53.060 been saying in

00:22:54.000 the House of

00:22:56.220 Commons and

00:22:57.420 you're still

00:22:57.980 being supportive

00:22:58.620 of this.

00:22:59.140 I know that

00:22:59.780 one of your

00:23:00.600 colleagues,

00:23:01.060 former chief

00:23:03.300 Billy Moran,

00:23:05.140 he was at

00:23:05.660 Premier Smith's

00:23:07.320 announcement.

00:23:08.360 What's your

00:23:08.860 take on her

00:23:10.380 announcement where

00:23:11.980 she was talking

00:23:12.560 about the

00:23:12.940 memorandum of

00:23:14.220 understanding?

00:23:15.280 What's your

00:23:15.920 take on the

00:23:17.500 MOU and the

00:23:18.360 possibility of

00:23:19.660 greater resource

00:23:21.160 development and

00:23:22.080 pipeline going

00:23:23.620 to BC's

00:23:24.420 northwest coast?

00:23:26.660 Well, we

00:23:27.440 signed a lot of

00:23:28.140 MOUs back in 1.00

00:23:29.120 my day as

00:23:29.960 chief counselor.

00:23:31.060 And it's

00:23:32.720 basically a

00:23:33.440 promise to

00:23:33.960 talk about

00:23:34.400 something in

00:23:35.680 the future.

00:23:38.120 There's no

00:23:38.760 real definition

00:23:39.620 of what that

00:23:41.500 MOU is actually

00:23:42.320 saying.

00:23:43.780 I mean,

00:23:44.040 there's a lot

00:23:44.820 in that MOU.

00:23:46.000 There's a lot.

00:23:46.800 And it's not

00:23:47.100 just about a

00:23:47.660 pipeline.

00:23:47.900 There's more

00:23:47.920 detail than I'm

00:23:48.600 used to in an

00:23:49.200 MOU, which is

00:23:50.180 part of why I

00:23:51.480 was very

00:23:51.880 skeptical before

00:23:52.640 it came out.

00:23:54.020 And I got to

00:23:54.660 say, I was

00:23:55.800 much more

00:23:56.360 heartened after

00:23:56.980 I saw it

00:23:57.620 because it

00:23:58.020 went, okay,

00:23:58.580 well, there's

00:23:59.020 there's at

00:23:59.940 least some

00:24:00.320 meat here.

00:24:00.940 Yeah, you

00:24:01.220 got to go

00:24:02.280 through some

00:24:02.980 hoops, but

00:24:04.980 I'm hopeful

00:24:06.060 that we can

00:24:06.780 get to a

00:24:07.260 pipeline.

00:24:07.760 I know

00:24:07.880 there's no

00:24:08.200 date attached

00:24:09.200 to exactly

00:24:09.980 when construction

00:24:10.680 starts and

00:24:11.240 all of that.

00:24:11.840 But, you

00:24:12.900 know, a lot

00:24:13.440 of MOUs are 0.98

00:24:14.320 just, well,

00:24:16.000 vague language

00:24:16.940 of aspirational

00:24:18.040 goals to one

00:24:19.020 day talk about

00:24:19.780 maybe potentially

00:24:21.060 doing something.

00:24:22.720 Yeah, I

00:24:23.280 agree.

00:24:23.560 but really

00:24:25.480 this time we

00:24:27.260 used the

00:24:27.560 same way.

00:24:28.460 Like you

00:24:28.800 do mention

00:24:29.340 that you

00:24:29.660 had to

00:24:29.860 build a

00:24:30.200 nuclear

00:24:30.480 plant, a

00:24:31.240 functioning

00:24:31.720 nuclear plant

00:24:32.320 by 2050.

00:24:33.940 But the

00:24:34.480 other stuff

00:24:34.900 is kind

00:24:35.700 of vague.

00:24:36.140 You got

00:24:36.380 to help

00:24:36.740 BC develop

00:24:38.740 an economic

00:24:39.160 plan.

00:24:40.460 You got

00:24:40.720 to help

00:24:40.960 BC with

00:24:41.440 their

00:24:41.560 electricity

00:24:41.980 needs.

00:24:44.920 There's a

00:24:45.260 number, like

00:24:46.120 no other

00:24:46.500 proponent I

00:24:47.120 have ever

00:24:47.380 seen has

00:24:48.980 had to

00:24:49.360 commit to

00:24:49.840 these types

00:24:50.240 of provisions.

00:24:50.740 That doesn't

00:24:51.320 really have

00:24:51.660 anything to do

00:24:52.140 with their

00:24:52.540 project.

00:24:53.560 Now I

00:24:53.920 understand

00:24:54.240 it's the

00:24:55.120 government

00:24:55.340 to

00:24:55.500 government

00:24:55.700 basically

00:24:56.160 MOU.

00:24:58.220 But I

00:24:59.800 still say

00:25:00.700 the real

00:25:03.920 initiative

00:25:05.240 will start

00:25:05.840 when an

00:25:06.200 application

00:25:06.580 is made

00:25:07.260 to Canada,

00:25:09.280 the Impact

00:25:09.820 Assessment

00:25:10.240 Agency,

00:25:10.800 and Canada's

00:25:12.340 decision whether

00:25:13.140 or not they

00:25:13.660 transfer that

00:25:14.560 to the Major

00:25:15.340 Process

00:25:15.660 Office.

00:25:16.920 I mean,

00:25:17.160 I think,

00:25:18.220 like even an

00:25:18.840 application that

00:25:19.620 I've seen

00:25:20.040 over the

00:25:20.520 years to

00:25:22.120 Canada or

00:25:23.100 BC,

00:25:23.560 it's not

00:25:24.160 really fully

00:25:24.620 complete.

00:25:26.100 There's some

00:25:26.800 blanks.

00:25:28.640 And normally

00:25:30.080 Canada or

00:25:30.900 BC will 0.76

00:25:31.240 accept those

00:25:31.900 applications.

00:25:33.840 But I think

00:25:35.040 we'll get a

00:25:35.500 better idea

00:25:37.020 of what this

00:25:37.720 all means

00:25:38.140 when the

00:25:38.380 application is

00:25:38.900 made.

00:25:39.920 Do you

00:25:40.340 believe that

00:25:41.340 there will

00:25:42.000 be or

00:25:42.560 should be

00:25:43.340 a private

00:25:44.520 sector company

00:25:45.200 come forward

00:25:45.780 on this?

00:25:47.380 Do you

00:25:47.720 believe that

00:25:48.160 a pipeline

00:25:48.780 to the

00:25:49.140 Northwest

00:25:49.380 Coast should

00:25:50.380 go ahead?

00:25:50.840 Yes.

00:25:52.140 I believe

00:25:52.560 it should

00:25:52.960 be in

00:25:53.180 the

00:25:53.280 private

00:25:53.480 sector

00:25:53.780 hands.

00:25:55.580 Trans Mountain

00:25:56.160 was a

00:25:57.340 nightmare

00:25:57.700 of cost

00:25:58.780 overruns

00:25:59.500 and hypocrisy.

00:26:01.860 I don't

00:26:06.000 think the

00:26:06.780 government

00:26:07.060 is truly

00:26:08.020 sincere in

00:26:08.660 trying to

00:26:08.880 get something

00:26:09.300 done based

00:26:09.960 on what

00:26:10.240 their

00:26:10.420 rhetoric

00:26:10.740 and that

00:26:11.920 rhetoric

00:26:12.220 still stands

00:26:12.800 today.

00:26:13.120 We heard

00:26:16.240 the minister

00:26:16.580 say that

00:26:17.140 what we're

00:26:17.940 talking about

00:26:18.400 here in

00:26:18.660 terms of

00:26:18.900 the AMEU

00:26:19.240 has never

00:26:19.540 been done

00:26:19.920 before.

00:26:21.220 Well,

00:26:21.440 yeah,

00:26:21.620 it has.

00:26:23.080 The Trans Mountain

00:26:23.760 pipeline is

00:26:24.440 an example.

00:26:25.120 The ONG Canada

00:26:25.640 pipeline is

00:26:26.220 an example.

00:26:28.020 The

00:26:28.160 certificate for

00:26:28.820 Chevron's

00:26:29.300 project is

00:26:29.860 alive and

00:26:30.300 well and

00:26:31.080 waiting for

00:26:31.740 some other

00:26:32.500 proponent to

00:26:33.080 come along.

00:26:34.500 And in

00:26:34.700 those cases,

00:26:36.420 both levels

00:26:37.660 of government

00:26:38.100 never said

00:26:39.420 that they

00:26:39.800 needed 100%

00:26:40.720 consensus

00:26:41.340 from 100%

00:26:42.600 of the First 0.77

00:26:42.960 Nations and

00:26:43.540 they still

00:26:43.940 approved and

00:26:45.000 built their

00:26:45.360 projects.

00:26:46.860 So there's a

00:26:47.820 lot of

00:26:48.040 politics in

00:26:48.860 this yet.

00:26:50.160 So we

00:26:50.920 talked earlier

00:26:51.480 about the

00:26:52.280 fact that

00:26:53.220 there is no

00:26:53.720 veto for

00:26:55.560 an individual

00:26:56.540 ban.

00:26:58.580 But what

00:26:59.820 should be

00:27:00.340 done, you

00:27:01.860 said earlier

00:27:02.900 that you

00:27:04.800 studied closely

00:27:05.520 rights and

00:27:06.040 title.

00:27:06.840 That's a big

00:27:07.340 discussion,

00:27:07.880 especially after

00:27:08.700 Cowichan.

00:27:09.720 But as it

00:27:10.340 relates to a

00:27:11.140 pipeline and a

00:27:11.760 resource project,

00:27:12.600 what is the

00:27:15.880 threshold?

00:27:17.920 I mean, we

00:27:18.960 saw during

00:27:19.440 Northern Gateway

00:27:20.160 that there were

00:27:21.740 31 bands along

00:27:22.680 the route that

00:27:23.280 supported it.

00:27:24.480 And there were

00:27:24.840 people that

00:27:25.260 opposed it.

00:27:26.420 Coastal First

00:27:26.980 Nations, that

00:27:27.700 not-for-profit,

00:27:28.700 not all of the

00:27:29.780 Coastal First

00:27:30.320 Nations, but that

00:27:31.340 not-for-profit based

00:27:32.320 in downtown

00:27:32.820 Vancouver, they

00:27:34.260 opposed it.

00:27:35.360 And Art Sterrett,

00:27:36.260 who was their

00:27:37.680 leader at the

00:27:38.200 time, said if

00:27:38.900 they put even a

00:27:39.940 shovel in the

00:27:40.420 ground, we'll be

00:27:41.020 there to stop

00:27:41.620 them.

00:27:42.760 Who speaks

00:27:43.800 for who?

00:27:44.900 And what is

00:27:45.760 the threshold

00:27:46.280 for saying you've

00:27:47.480 got to have

00:27:47.820 buy-in and

00:27:48.960 consultation?

00:27:52.060 Well, that's

00:27:53.880 the thing, is

00:27:54.560 that the

00:27:55.380 Canadians don't

00:27:56.340 understand who

00:27:58.120 holds rights and

00:27:58.840 title.

00:27:59.100 and if you look

00:28:01.820 at the court

00:28:02.160 cases, it's

00:28:03.760 actually...

00:28:04.380 Because there's

00:28:04.920 no treaties, I

00:28:06.280 think that's up in

00:28:06.980 the air between

00:28:07.540 different First

00:28:08.340 Nations groups as

00:28:09.200 well.

00:28:09.920 What was the

00:28:10.520 stat I heard one

00:28:11.780 time?

00:28:12.060 120% of BC is

00:28:13.720 claimed because

00:28:15.680 it's not settled.

00:28:17.260 Oh yeah, and

00:28:17.780 that's a different

00:28:18.300 issue altogether.

00:28:19.160 But the idea that

00:28:20.160 somehow these

00:28:21.460 representative groups

00:28:22.600 represent rights and

00:28:24.340 title is wrong.

00:28:25.800 They don't represent 0.99

00:28:26.920 rights and title.

00:28:27.520 So, it's actually

00:28:29.020 the rights and

00:28:30.180 title is held on

00:28:30.980 behalf of a

00:28:31.480 community.

00:28:33.400 So, my

00:28:34.260 first issue, for

00:28:35.320 example, Haisla,

00:28:36.800 the community

00:28:37.540 actually owns the

00:28:38.780 rights and title.

00:28:40.100 So, it only stands

00:28:41.100 to reason the

00:28:41.780 community's got to

00:28:42.440 decide who

00:28:43.700 represents us in

00:28:45.660 this equation.

00:28:47.540 And for us, it

00:28:48.500 was the elected

00:28:49.640 council.

00:28:51.300 But every

00:28:51.940 community's got to

00:28:52.680 answer that

00:28:53.040 question.

00:28:53.580 But to say that

00:28:54.380 somebody owns the

00:28:57.160 rights and title,

00:28:57.720 whether it be

00:28:58.120 an individual or

00:28:59.340 maybe a representative

00:29:00.560 group, no, that's

00:29:02.820 not right.

00:29:03.960 And so, when it

00:29:04.420 comes down to it, if

00:29:05.300 there's a

00:29:05.860 consultation and

00:29:06.460 accommodation process

00:29:07.240 ever initiated by

00:29:08.300 Canada and BC, then

00:29:10.960 they've got to go talk

00:29:11.900 to the community

00:29:12.320 themselves and find

00:29:13.680 out exactly what

00:29:14.520 they want and how

00:29:15.880 they want to address

00:29:17.140 their rights and

00:29:17.640 title interests.

00:29:19.040 Well, I can just

00:29:20.320 imagine after the

00:29:21.240 vote where you got

00:29:21.920 92% in favor of the

00:29:23.620 LNG project, that

00:29:25.340 CBC would show up

00:29:26.420 and do an

00:29:27.140 in-depth profile on

00:29:28.340 the 8% that said

00:29:29.420 no, rather than

00:29:31.880 the 92% that said

00:29:33.360 yes, and they

00:29:34.440 would say, see, not

00:29:35.860 everyone agrees.

00:29:36.980 And that's part of

00:29:38.220 the problem.

00:29:38.640 And then you've got

00:29:39.220 some groups, and I

00:29:41.400 know, like, so I'm

00:29:43.840 in southern Ontario,

00:29:44.900 this is where I was

00:29:45.420 born and raised, you

00:29:47.400 know, used to know

00:29:48.320 Six Nations, out by

00:29:50.640 Oshwik and fairly 1.00

00:29:51.360 well.

00:29:51.680 they've now got the

00:29:53.540 issue of elected

00:29:55.160 band and council,

00:29:56.760 elected chiefs, and

00:29:57.980 hereditary chiefs.

00:29:59.700 I know that's a

00:30:00.240 problem with some in

00:30:02.740 British Columbia.

00:30:03.520 That was part of the

00:30:04.180 problem with Coastal

00:30:05.460 Gas Link, was people

00:30:07.540 showing up and saying,

00:30:08.460 well, yeah, the band

00:30:09.600 approved it, but I'm the

00:30:10.620 hereditary chief, and I

00:30:11.740 say no.

00:30:13.140 How is the government,

00:30:14.340 any government, supposed

00:30:15.580 to deal with that?

00:30:16.540 We can't.

00:30:18.500 And the government, I

00:30:21.300 mean, you can't lay the

00:30:23.960 blame at government's

00:30:25.600 feet for this, because

00:30:27.600 a lot of people don't

00:30:28.640 understand First Nations

00:30:30.000 and their leadership

00:30:30.640 structures.

00:30:32.480 And I never said either

00:30:34.220 way, whether or not it's

00:30:35.600 accredited leadership or

00:30:37.060 elected leadership that

00:30:37.900 should represent

00:30:38.780 rights title.

00:30:40.240 What I said was, it's up

00:30:41.920 to the community to

00:30:42.740 decide who represents

00:30:44.380 them.

00:30:44.620 And I've never seen

00:30:46.520 any type of referendum

00:30:47.820 from any community to

00:30:48.880 talk about that

00:30:49.900 fundamental issue.

00:30:52.860 But when I do go to

00:30:54.240 First Nations and talk

00:30:56.460 to some of the people

00:30:57.660 and they talk about

00:30:58.460 their unemployment, their

00:31:00.320 poverty, their suicide

00:31:02.900 rate, that's one of the

00:31:04.940 things I ask is, so,

00:31:07.140 you know, who represents

00:31:07.900 you?

00:31:09.180 Like, if there's a

00:31:09.860 project coming down the

00:31:11.120 bike, who represents

00:31:11.980 you?

00:31:13.180 And do you guys have an

00:31:14.280 idea of what you

00:31:15.960 want?

00:31:16.340 Because it's really

00:31:19.240 not up to leadership to

00:31:20.300 decide what the

00:31:22.840 people want.

00:31:25.080 You know, a good

00:31:27.480 leader will take

00:31:28.260 everything into

00:31:29.500 consideration for their

00:31:30.540 own community, and

00:31:33.380 it's not going to be

00:31:33.900 a majority, it's not

00:31:34.640 going to be consensus,

00:31:35.620 it's probably going to be

00:31:36.320 a majority, and try to

00:31:37.840 translate that into a

00:31:38.960 plan.

00:31:39.260 And I had to learn

00:31:42.380 this the hard way.

00:31:44.220 You're a different

00:31:44.860 party than Premier

00:31:45.560 David Eby, a different

00:31:46.740 party than Prime

00:31:47.560 Minister Carney,

00:31:49.500 obviously also a

00:31:50.320 different party than

00:31:52.160 Alberta Premier Daniel

00:31:53.320 Smith.

00:31:54.200 But if you're advising

00:31:55.460 all of them on how to

00:31:57.520 approach this going

00:31:59.080 forward, in terms of

00:32:01.420 consultations with

00:32:03.240 First Nations groups,

00:32:04.320 in terms of getting

00:32:05.060 people on side, what's

00:32:06.820 your advice for these

00:32:08.380 three elected leaders?

00:32:11.400 Well, I think Premier

00:32:12.900 Smith is doing a good

00:32:13.700 job.

00:32:16.800 She's not really

00:32:17.820 imposing anything,

00:32:19.060 she's talking to the

00:32:21.600 First Nations, to her

00:32:22.740 ministers, and she's 0.99

00:32:25.740 trying to develop a

00:32:26.640 process to kind of get

00:32:28.120 it to BC and understand

00:32:29.460 the issues.

00:32:34.040 Premier Eby is always

00:32:35.820 opposed to everything.

00:32:37.820 Regardless, and if

00:32:38.900 they're outright opposed,

00:32:40.680 then the policies that

00:32:41.720 have been put in place

00:32:42.560 by the NDP have

00:32:43.360 actually restricted

00:32:44.160 resources to dongle,

00:32:44.980 like mining, for

00:32:45.640 instance.

00:32:46.780 John Horgan, the late

00:32:47.960 John Horgan, referred to

00:32:49.620 people like David Eby as

00:32:51.420 part of the Mudhut 0.90

00:32:52.260 Brigade of his party.

00:32:54.400 They've always been

00:32:55.240 opposed to everything.

00:32:58.720 Horgan could accept a

00:33:00.820 certain degree of

00:33:01.600 resource development and

00:33:02.940 he's an old blue

00:33:04.020 collar guy, but he

00:33:05.320 referred to guys like

00:33:06.140 Eby as the Mudhut 0.99

00:33:06.920 Brigade.

00:33:08.280 You know, let's think

00:33:08.640 about, like, the NDP

00:33:09.800 opposed LNG, right?

00:33:11.380 And then it became the

00:33:12.100 government, they gave him

00:33:13.060 a PST tax break and a

00:33:14.880 cap on the carbon tax.

00:33:17.220 But what really impressed

00:33:18.140 me about John Horgan was

00:33:20.640 when they approved it, he

00:33:23.820 never hesitated to point me

00:33:25.400 out as being one of the

00:33:27.460 architects of LNG.

00:33:28.360 like, that was impressive as a

00:33:32.500 political leader.

00:33:33.600 He really impressed me with

00:33:34.740 that.

00:33:34.980 But the advice I'd give to

00:33:36.580 Prime Minister Carney is

00:33:38.220 stop flip-flopping on what

00:33:42.720 you're saying to First

00:33:43.600 Nations, given what day it

00:33:46.900 is or where you are.

00:33:47.820 One day you say you'll only

00:33:50.360 do it with a consensus or

00:33:52.800 national consensus.

00:33:53.660 Next day you'll say there's no

00:33:54.600 veto.

00:33:54.840 Then you'll go back to

00:33:56.320 consensus and, I mean, the

00:33:58.660 consensus word is in the

00:34:00.000 case law.

00:34:00.560 It's there, but only in

00:34:01.940 certain situations.

00:34:03.800 But the case law is pretty

00:34:04.960 explicit.

00:34:06.400 There's no veto.

00:34:08.720 And so, you know, the

00:34:11.280 liberals dancing around this

00:34:13.220 term of consensus.

00:34:15.760 It's doing a disservice to

00:34:17.200 Canadians and it's doing a

00:34:18.580 disservice to First Nations

00:34:19.460 alike.

00:34:20.080 And it's not going to get us

00:34:21.580 to be the best-performed

00:34:24.280 country in the

00:34:24.820 G7.

00:34:25.380 It's not going to get us to

00:34:26.280 be an energy superpower and

00:34:28.080 it's not going to get us

00:34:29.100 away from the tariffs that

00:34:30.740 President Trump is imposing

00:34:32.380 on us.

00:34:33.820 So, pick an idea, pick a

00:34:37.920 statement.

00:34:38.400 What is it?

00:34:38.980 Is it consensus?

00:34:39.840 Is it veto?

00:34:40.560 What is it?

00:34:43.540 Well, it's interesting you've

00:34:45.180 picked up that the liberals

00:34:46.320 have about five different

00:34:47.600 lines, depending on who

00:34:49.020 they're talking to.

00:34:50.400 Ellis, thanks so much for the

00:34:51.560 time.

00:34:51.820 Great talking to you again.

00:34:52.700 We'll do it sooner rather

00:34:54.000 than later next time.

00:34:55.020 Thank you very much.

00:34:56.060 Full Comment is a post-media

00:34:57.660 podcast.

00:34:58.340 My name's Brian Lilly, your

00:34:59.440 host.

00:35:00.060 This episode was produced by

00:35:01.480 Andre Pru, theme music by

00:35:03.020 Bryce Hall.

00:35:03.940 Kevin Libin is the executive

00:35:05.600 producer.

00:35:06.700 Make sure that you leave us a

00:35:07.740 comment, help us out with a

00:35:09.140 subscription or a review, and

00:35:11.280 let your friends know all about

00:35:12.420 us.

00:35:12.880 Until next time, I'm Brian Lilly.

00:35:14.760 Here's that clip from Canada did

00:35:20.940 what?

00:35:21.580 I promised you.

00:35:24.740 In the late 1960s, you have

00:35:27.000 members of the Montreal police

00:35:28.500 who can spend their entire shift

00:35:30.580 rushing from one FLQ bombing to

00:35:33.500 another.

00:35:34.620 Here's how New Year's Eve 1968

00:35:36.900 played out for Robert Cote, a

00:35:39.160 member of the Montreal police

00:35:40.400 bomb squad, which put him at the

00:35:42.440 forefront of fighting the FLQ

00:35:44.340 during this period.

00:35:45.660 He was supposed to be at home

00:35:47.240 with his wife, who had just

00:35:48.400 miscarried twin daughters.

00:35:50.540 But instead, at 11pm, he's

00:35:52.580 called out to Montreal City Hall

00:35:54.080 to investigate a bomb that had

00:35:55.960 just gone off.

00:35:57.200 He's en route with sirens blaring

00:35:58.920 when he's told, actually, don't

00:36:00.940 bother with the exploded bomb.

00:36:02.700 There's an unexploded bomb on the

00:36:04.560 other side of City Hall you have to

00:36:06.280 defuse.

00:36:08.000 And then, right after snipping the

00:36:09.840 wires on the City Hall bomb, Cote

00:36:12.080 has to speed west, where a third

00:36:14.440 bomb has just exploded outside a

00:36:16.500 federal building.

00:36:18.180 The bombing started in April and

00:36:21.060 May of 1963.

00:36:23.400 That's when the first bombings took

00:36:24.760 place.

00:36:25.260 And the mailbox bombings were the 0.88

00:36:27.260 most famous part of the whole

00:36:28.800 thing, which was basically on the

00:36:31.660 Thursday night and Friday night

00:36:33.340 leading into the Victoria Day

00:36:35.260 weekend in 1963.

00:36:36.760 So, initially, they started attacking

00:36:40.860 these symbols of federalism, federal

00:36:43.360 institutions, whether it was the

00:36:44.600 Montreal Post Office or Revenue

00:36:46.580 Canada.

00:36:47.880 But the bombings escalated as time went

00:36:50.520 on in terms of the size of the bombs

00:36:53.980 and the powerfulness of these bombs.

00:36:55.880 If you want to hear the rest of the

00:36:59.420 story, make sure you subscribe to

00:37:01.440 Canada Did What?

00:37:02.800 Everywhere you get your podcasts.

Full Comment - December 08, 2025

Say hello to pro-pipeline First Nations in B.C.

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