Full Comment - Scott ‘peacemaker’ Aitchison wants to make us less angry

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00:01:58.720 Hi, I'm Anthony Fury.

00:02:05.940 Thanks for joining me for the latest episode of Full Comment.

00:02:08.400 Please consider subscribing if you haven't already.

00:02:10.980 The federal conservative leadership race is still very much underway, and we have candidate Scott Agenson joining us for today's episode.

00:02:18.060 Just a programming FYI, we have invited all six of the verified candidates to join us on the show,

00:02:22.600 and so far we've released episodes with Pierre Polyev, Lesnar Lewis, and Roman Baber.

00:02:26.760 Now, the leadership results won't be announced until September, but as of June, things are already heating up.

00:02:32.520 There's been debates, some contentious moments, some classic conservative family infighting.

00:02:37.480 There's been polls released, and lots of touring across the country for leaders to share their vision.

00:02:42.500 Scott Agenson, who's joining us now to share his vision, is currently the conservative MP for the Ontario Riding of Muskoka-Perry Sound.

00:02:50.020 Before becoming an MP in 2019, Agenson was the mayor of Huntsville, and prior to that, he was a councillor for the region starting at the age of 21.

00:02:58.580 He joins us now.

00:02:59.660 Hey, Scott, great to have you on the show.

00:03:01.160 Welcome.

00:03:01.380 That's great to be here.

00:03:03.700 Thank you, Anthony.

00:03:04.640 So the question I like to ask all the candidates right off the bat, you're running for conservative leader.

00:03:09.440 Why?

00:03:09.800 Why do you want to be leader?

00:03:10.780 Why do you want to be the next prime minister?

00:03:12.260 Well, I think it's time to start calling this country together.

00:03:17.720 I've been in Ottawa now a few years, and I was pretty dismayed when I got there and found that it's pretty divisive rhetoric and tone,

00:03:25.220 and our politics at the federal level has become more and more divisive.

00:03:29.760 And I think that it's time for someone with the sensibilities of a small-town mayor who talks about the things that unites Canadians

00:03:36.360 and bring us closer together and talk about real solutions to the problems that Canadians face every day.

00:03:41.600 So I hear that a lot about division, but I hear from all different corners.

00:03:45.320 Justin Trudeau will say things are too divisive.

00:03:47.540 Conservative politicians have said that.

00:03:49.140 What do you mean when you say that specifically?

00:03:53.240 Well, I'm talking about a politics that has evolved to be more and more divisive over those many years, right?

00:03:59.760 And both parties are guilty of it.

00:04:02.320 I mean, the most recent example, I think, that we can see early is Justin Trudeau's most recent behavior,

00:04:09.620 trying to demonize the unvaccinated to appeal to the vaccinated.

00:04:12.780 That was a disgusting display in the last election, but it was used to win votes, and it works.

00:04:19.280 And this is the part of the problem that I see with our political war rooms on all sides,

00:04:24.360 you know, looking for those wedge issues or those divisive comments that pit one part of the country against each other,

00:04:31.200 urban versus rural.

00:04:33.080 It's effective at winning votes in the short term.

00:04:36.920 But there's a cumulative effect to all of those divisive wins.

00:04:40.900 It doesn't build up a country, and it makes us more divided.

00:04:43.560 And that's what I'm concerned about.

00:04:44.720 And I've said many times, you only have to look south of the border to see what the cumulative effect of that divisive rhetoric does.

00:04:51.620 And I don't think Canadians want to go there. 1.00

00:04:54.900 And what do you mean south of the border?

00:04:56.360 What particularly?

00:04:57.600 Some people point to the election of Donald Trump as a bad thing.

00:05:00.520 Other people mean more leftward schisms that are happening.

00:05:03.560 What are you concerned about happening in the U.S. that could be transported up here?

00:05:08.040 Well, the particularly polarizing nature of their politics is it's certainly creeping into our politics here as well.

00:05:17.180 That's what I think is a problem.

00:05:19.100 I think that it's important for our politics and citizens to be able to discuss and debate issues without getting angry,

00:05:28.040 without hating each other.

00:05:29.320 We have to be able to disagree without being disagreeable.

00:05:31.620 And we have to be able to talk about big issues.

00:05:33.700 I feel like elections at the federal level are not debated on big issues, but they seem to be debated on personalities.

00:05:42.920 And that's not good for our democracy.

00:05:45.840 It doesn't move a country forward.

00:05:47.520 It doesn't bring Canadians together.

00:05:50.080 Canada can be so much more.

00:05:51.660 This is the most amazing country in the world.

00:05:53.680 We could be doing so much more if we stop trying to divide each other just to win elections.

00:05:58.380 Winning elections, it's not a zero-sum game.

00:06:00.460 And there's got to be, you know, there's got to be a vision.

00:06:03.120 And I don't see that.

00:06:05.880 I think it's time that we start articulating vision and ideas and having discussions with Canadians about where they want this country to go.

00:06:13.280 Now, I know you gave Justin Trudeau and the unvaccinated demonization as an example,

00:06:16.540 but you also referenced political war rooms of all stripes.

00:06:19.560 Do you believe that the Conservative Party, or at least some Conservative politicians in Canada, are problematic as well?

00:06:25.380 Well, I think absolutely.

00:06:28.420 And I would cite examples in terms of the, you know, those various wedge issues that exist in our politics and how, you know, we as Conservatives talk about it.

00:06:36.800 I mean, you think about our discussions of climate change or firearms policy or, you know, you name them.

00:06:44.600 You know, we can be just as divisive on these issues as others.

00:06:48.080 I'll take, you know, firearms policy and legislation as just one example.

00:06:54.440 You know, I think it's ridiculous how the Liberal government, you know, regularly tries to demonize law-abiding firearms owners that predominantly live in rural Canada.

00:07:03.820 Well, they don't have a lot of support in rural Canada, so it's easy to do that.

00:07:07.160 But there's a legitimate reason why we're talking about firearms policy.

00:07:11.400 There are people that live in large urban centers that are scared because of the gun violence that exists in their communities and in their neighborhoods.

00:07:19.980 But instead of talking about the real issue, the issue of illegal handguns being smuggled across our border,

00:07:26.540 and the deeper issue of, you know, why there are young people in some communities in this country who feel their only hope for a future is to join a gang,

00:07:35.600 we've failed those kids.

00:07:36.740 We've failed those young people.

00:07:37.860 So instead of having a real conversation about stopping the illegal flow of illegal handguns across our border

00:07:44.180 and solving the problems of poverty and disparity in our cities, it's easy just to say we're going to ban all guns and demonize, you know, law-abiding firearms owners. 0.99

00:07:55.480 And conservatives cannot just, you know, stick our heads to the stands and think that, you know, people that live in cities are stupid. 0.97

00:08:02.000 They're scared for legitimate reasons. 0.99

00:08:03.600 But let's have an intelligent conversation about what we need to do to solve that problem, to solve the problem of crime and violence and murder in our larger centers.

00:08:15.220 I feel like we're having the conversation a bit more nuanced than before.

00:08:18.260 I think when a politician proposes we've got to ban handguns or ban bullets.

00:08:21.840 I remember Adam Vaughn proposed that once banning bullets.

00:08:23.960 I think people now go, oh, I know the stat now about most guns coming across the border from the U.S. illegally.

00:08:29.660 And I feel like liberal MPs like Bill Blair know that as well, being a former Toronto police chief.

00:08:34.740 Why hasn't a more workable solution been done, Scott?

00:08:39.020 Are they just not talking to the governors in those states properly or talking to the White House?

00:08:44.540 Like, what's going on?

00:08:46.040 Because we all kind of have a sense of, let's stop with, to your point, the rhetoric here and let's get the results.

00:08:52.400 It's because of politics.

00:08:53.960 It's strictly because of politics.

00:08:55.480 You know, the liberals love to use this issue to win support.

00:09:02.000 I mean, they pander to people who live in cities and it's becoming completely polarized, right?

00:09:10.460 So, you know, you get people on the one side of this issue who just say, we've got to ban all guns.

00:09:14.820 Period.

00:09:15.320 Ban them.

00:09:16.060 Why does anybody need a gun?

00:09:17.760 But instead of listening to people that actually use guns, use firearms, who might even be firearms enthusiasts, they might not be hunters.

00:09:26.360 But instead of trying to understand both sides of this issue and understand perspectives and understand that, you know, the state limiting, you know, your rights to do whatever, there has to be a good reason for it.

00:09:38.960 Instead of trying to understand each other, instead of firearms owners trying to understand the fears that exist in cities, what politicians do is they use these issues as wedge issues to garner support where they need to garner support to win elections, to win more seats.

00:09:54.560 And I've seen it a few times now in Ottawa where it's just, you know, instead of choosing to move the country forward, instead of choosing, you know, a solution that actually is good for all Canadians, you know, we play the political card instead and, you know, demonize the other party and don't move anything forward.

00:10:16.520 And it just continues to go around and around and around and it makes it, I think it makes Canadians angry and it makes them more divided.

00:10:24.740 And so our politics is directly involved in the division that exists in this country.

00:10:28.860 And I fundamentally believe that it's time to change that.

00:10:32.600 Scott, one of the notes I'd written in prep was to ask you how you'd like to be known as in terms of, I know nobody wants the soundbite to define them, but in terms of acknowledging, say, Jean Charest, former Quebec Liberal Premier.

00:10:44.680 Okay, there you go. We know less than Lewis identified as more social conservative.

00:10:48.460 Roman Baber, the guy who really didn't like the conservative lockdowns, the COVID lockdowns.

00:10:53.140 You've described yourself a couple of times already as the small town mayor.

00:10:56.660 And you've talked about bridging, you talked about small town Ontario, and then you've got people in rural Alberta.

00:11:00.620 And then we've got a place like Huntsville where you were mayor, which is kind of, I mean, it's not living on a rural road.

00:11:05.720 It's a town. It's a community.

00:11:09.060 Is that a way that you'd encourage us to think about you and your candidacy as the small town mayor?

00:11:14.580 And is there a solution to these issues that you're talking from that approach, from that mentality?

00:11:21.560 Yeah, I guess so.

00:11:22.240 Well, I think that it certainly defines, you know, my public life very much so.

00:11:28.380 I mean, my time as a municipal councillor and as a mayor, I mean, this is a consensus building model, a municipal model.

00:11:35.180 And I was good at being the mayor.

00:11:37.240 I loved being the mayor because I brought people together.

00:11:41.120 And I led a council that could disagree without hating each other.

00:11:45.380 I led a community that, you know, we didn't always agree on every issue, but we moved the community forward.

00:11:50.240 I guess if I wanted to be defined by one thing, I guess I'd like to be known as Scott the Peacemaker, Scott the Uniter.

00:11:58.940 But we need to unite our caucus.

00:12:00.820 We need to unite our movement.

00:12:02.940 Canadians are not going to trust conservatives to govern if we can't get along with each other.

00:12:07.360 And that starts with meeting with respect, listening to all sides of an issue,

00:12:12.680 and understanding that there are different perspectives on issues, even within our movement and our party.

00:12:17.260 And we're not always going to agree, but we have to work to find the common ground.

00:12:21.260 We have to work to find those areas where we all agree or we can build some consensus and be united.

00:12:27.540 Unity doesn't mean uniformity, but it does mean we have to respect each other and hear each other out and find that common ground.

00:12:33.900 That's the only way.

00:12:35.120 That is the only way Canadians will trust us to lead and govern this country again.

00:12:38.480 But do we also want strong leadership and vision?

00:12:41.460 And you used the phrase vision, and I want to talk to you a bit more about vision in a moment,

00:12:45.620 but strong vision in a way that you're not going to win over everyone and you are going to ruffle a couple of feathers.

00:12:49.900 When you say peacemaker, you know, I want to tone down the rhetoric, the tone, I go, that sounds really appealing.

00:12:54.360 That's a great pitch to be intergovernmental affairs minister, speaker of the House of Commons.

00:12:58.120 But how does that apply to being a leader with vision?

00:13:02.520 Well, this is a very important point to make.

00:13:07.740 I mean, having a vision for this country and debating ideas doesn't mean that everyone's going to agree with you.

00:13:14.600 I mean, that's a very important point to make.

00:13:18.380 But we don't have to be divisive and nasty about it.

00:13:21.060 And in terms of vision for this country, my vision is a country that is more than the sum of its parts,

00:13:27.460 that we do start working together and that we stop being, you know, ashamed or embarrassed about being like a resource superpower, for example.

00:13:35.700 And we need to start listening to each other.

00:13:37.920 So this is a classic example, again, of where we, you know, we just let the politics of division take over.

00:13:43.740 Canada is a resource superpower.

00:13:45.020 We have some of the most environmentally sustainable and ethically produced energy in the world.

00:13:51.080 And yet, you know, the issue of climate change in our environment has become so polarized that we can't even have an intelligent conversation about making a transition away from carbon-based fuels,

00:14:03.760 but acknowledging that we are still going to be using carbon-based fuels for a long time.

00:14:08.880 And nobody wants to talk about the fact that, you know, the oil sands, for example, they've reduced their carbon output by 30% over the last 15 years.

00:14:16.200 That's remarkable.

00:14:16.840 And they continue to do more research and innovate.

00:14:21.320 You know, Canadians are innovative and they're entrepreneurial.

00:14:24.480 We should be exporting technology around the world to help other countries reduce their footprint as well.

00:14:30.060 But we should be acknowledging, too, that, you know, while we make that transition, we're still going to use carbon-based fuels, even if we get to net zero.

00:14:37.000 That doesn't mean we're not using carbon-based fuels ever.

00:14:40.020 But that's not part of the equation.

00:14:41.840 We don't have that discussion.

00:14:42.880 You know, you know, there's people in downtown Toronto who I've talked to that think, you know, Alberta just doesn't get it. 0.76

00:14:49.920 Well, they don't realize all the incredibly remarkable things that they're doing to diversify their economy and to reduce their carbon footprint at the same time.

00:14:57.500 We need to be talking about those things with each other.

00:14:59.500 And this is my vision for the country, that where we actually talk to each other, we may not always agree, but we agree that we live in the greatest country on Earth and that we can make it better and that we can achieve our goals collectively and not fight about it, not hate each other in the process.

00:15:16.780 And recognize that, you know, a vibrant Quebec is important for Alberta and a strong economy in Alberta is important for a vibrant Quebec.

00:15:27.800 You know, we don't have to be nasty and at each other's throats all the time. 0.99

00:15:33.400 You know, to your point about the climate stuff and to resource development, and we hear people talk about it more and more with, obviously, energy dependency on Russia and saying, oh, man, we got to get away from all of that.

00:15:42.020 But then at the same time, to your point, there's people in urban environments who are just not at that part of the conversation.

00:15:49.740 They're just still saying, why can't we shut down the oil sands?

00:15:52.700 But I wonder how do we, I mean, I think you're talking about really the holy grail of turning something into a unity issue here because the facts are on the table.

00:16:01.280 I always find it very interesting that the federal government's own energy fact book, Stephen Guilbault's own department, gives us the tools to see, hey, we're actually reducing our emissions per capita.

00:16:09.620 Hey, we are, you know, the cleanest of all the options out there.

00:16:12.560 Let's move ahead with this.

00:16:13.660 And yet the prime minister will not at all.

00:16:16.560 I know he says he supports some pipelines, but he's really not a champion for this.

00:16:20.300 And the people who chain themselves to the pipelines or what have you, I think they kind of have heard these facts as well, but they just don't care.

00:16:26.940 They're still chaining themselves to things.

00:16:28.320 And the prime minister doesn't want to call in the cops to break that stuff up.

00:16:30.760 I mean, how do you do it, Scott?

00:16:32.320 Because I think that's the huge challenge, getting the stuff built.

00:16:35.660 Well, I agree with you.

00:16:37.080 And I think part of the issue that we've had as conservatives is that for a couple of cycles now, we haven't really had the most credible climate plan.

00:16:47.200 And this is part of the issue.

00:16:48.780 You know, we have to be serious about this issue as conservatives as well.

00:16:53.940 And so we need to be able to speak to the issues that Canadians care about, and we need to be credible on all issues.

00:17:02.880 And I think it's important that we make sure that Canadians that live, as an example, that live in urban areas need to understand that maybe a carbon tax does make sense to them because they have a lot of different options to get to work, for example, or, you know, to heat their home or wherever it might be.

00:17:19.580 But there are a lot of people in rural Canada who, you know, and people on fixed incomes, people that I represent, that I know full well, you know, they live, literally hand them out.

00:17:30.200 Like, I've had people call me in tears this past winter because they didn't know how they were going to eat and heat their home.

00:17:36.660 And so, you know, there are people that don't understand those stories, you know, they're not in a lot of work that I'm in where I talk to people about these issues.

00:17:45.300 There are lots of people in my writing that think that carbon tax is great because, you know, it's helping them make some changes.

00:17:52.360 I'm just saying we need to talk to each other.

00:17:54.700 And this has always been my style to make sure that we try to understand the perspective of others and recognize that, yes, we do need to reduce our footprint.

00:18:03.800 We do need to meet our targets.

00:18:05.440 But there are better ways to do it that don't make the most vulnerable in our society pay the highest price.

00:18:12.240 And so, you know, I think that it's about language, it's about tone, and it's about making sure that conservatives have a credible plan,

00:18:17.640 but also express it in a way that is sincere and realistic and credible and consistent.

00:18:24.560 This is another important thing.

00:18:25.960 We need to be consistent in our message and speak to the issues that Canadians care about no matter where they live,

00:18:31.020 whether it's urban or rural, east or west, or wherever they were born and raised.

00:18:35.820 This is what matters.

00:18:36.880 So it sounds like you're saying you'd scrap the carbon tax, but you do think a plan is important.

00:18:40.540 What would your plan look like?

00:18:43.540 Actually, my plan would be pretty similar to Jean Charest's plan.

00:18:46.180 You know, regulation is going to be an important tool.

00:18:49.580 The provinces are really, in many ways, the lead on this issue,

00:18:52.440 and I think it's important to, you know, collaborate pretty closely with the premiers.

00:18:56.020 I think, you know, some kind of carbon pricing on the large emitters and working with those companies as well.

00:19:03.160 I would actually work really hard to come up with plans that actually assist Canadians to reduce their footprint 0.99

00:19:08.320 as opposed to punishing them for not doing it on their own.

00:19:12.400 I just know that there are other ways to do it.

00:19:16.620 They might not happen quite as quickly as a carbon tax, but, or maybe not, you know,

00:19:23.000 people are saying that the carbon tax is the most conservative way of doing this,

00:19:26.880 but I, you know, I'm not hung up on ideology on this issue when it comes to making sure that,

00:19:32.120 you know, the most vulnerable in our society can afford to live as well.

00:19:35.100 So we need to help Canadians reduce their footprint, not punish them for it.

00:19:38.820 Speaking about when it comes to top-down issues that are frustrating many people,

00:19:42.700 many Conservative Party members, things like the carbon tax being foisted upon them,

00:19:47.280 right now, one thing people are talking about a lot, the World Economic Forum.

00:19:51.000 I get a lot of emails from readers from Conservative Party members saying they're frustrated with people in Davos

00:19:56.440 thinking that they can just totally talk down to regular folks and dominate all the issues from on high.

00:20:03.300 Pierre Polyev has said he wouldn't even allow his government or cabinet ministers to attend forums like Davos,

00:20:08.000 the World Economic Forum.

00:20:09.300 A very controversial, heated discussion right now.

00:20:11.640 What is your take on the international gabfests where predominantly very wealthy elite people talk about

00:20:18.620 how they're going to manage the great unwashed?

00:20:23.020 My thinking on it is that we, is, is, actually I like your description of it.

00:20:27.300 It is an international gabfest of a bunch of gazillionaires.

00:20:31.220 They don't control our government.

00:20:33.240 They don't control, you know, all things Canadian.

00:20:37.240 They, you know, they, they, they talk, it is just a gabfest.

00:20:42.200 And if, and if people in this country are concerned about what influence they have in this country,

00:20:47.220 you know, ask, ask the people that, you know, are running for public office,

00:20:52.360 if you agree with some of the things that are being talked about in those places.

00:20:57.280 This is another important thing.

00:21:00.040 There's a lot of things that get said at these World Economic Forum gabfests that I don't agree with.

00:21:05.120 But you know what?

00:21:06.280 I'm not afraid of them.

00:21:07.520 We shouldn't be afraid of them just because we disagree with what they're suggesting.

00:21:11.940 And, and this is, this is part of the problem.

00:21:14.340 I mean, these people don't control our government.

00:21:17.760 They don't control our country.

00:21:19.740 And, and, and if you disagree with them, that's fine.

00:21:22.520 Disagree with them.

00:21:23.740 And if you don't like some of their maybe left-leaning ideas about, about how the world should work,

00:21:29.360 then don't vote for left-leaning politicians.

00:21:32.200 Vote for right-leaning politicians.

00:21:33.860 I think, I think that this is part of the problem.

00:21:37.120 We, we, we've tried to instill, you know, so much anger and fear in people.

00:21:42.020 And now we're just banning the flames of it instead of talking sensibly and reasonably.

00:21:46.400 There's a lot of conspiracy theories out there.

00:21:48.500 And, you know, responsible politicians actually call them out for what they are.

00:21:53.560 The World Economic Forum does not run our government, period.

00:21:56.340 I do sense a lot of frustration, a sort of inchoate frustration among people that there are national,

00:22:05.760 international, whatever sort of policy prescriptions that a bunch of people share in them, whether

00:22:11.000 they're attending Davos or some other forum when it comes to issues like bringing in a digital

00:22:15.200 ID, which is a thing, as you know, four or five provinces are doing this in Canada right

00:22:19.180 now in terms of immigration policies that they feel like aren't really being hashed out

00:22:23.900 by MPs, but are more just sort of whatever the international trend is.

00:22:27.960 Of course, climate comes from that.

00:22:29.260 The Paris Accord deal is something that we are voluntary signatories to, but the federal

00:22:33.920 government acts like we got a gun to our head trying to meet these targets.

00:22:36.640 They're not targets we have to meet, but we've chosen to based on this sort of international

00:22:41.020 colloquium where we signed up to all of this.

00:22:43.400 And I think folks have a growing frustration or certainty with that trend.

00:22:49.940 What are your thoughts on those concerns people have?

00:22:55.060 I think that they're completely legitimate concerns.

00:22:58.020 But the reason they feel that way is because we have a politics that is designed for winning

00:23:04.200 and nothing else.

00:23:05.000 We need to be listening to people.

00:23:07.160 We need to engage with our constituents again.

00:23:11.280 You know, when policy decisions are made at any level of government without sufficient

00:23:19.220 engagement and discussion with the people that these policies affect, then it's no wonder

00:23:26.760 people feel like they're being ignored because they are.

00:23:29.320 People, you know, people, people are, have every right to be frustrated with a government

00:23:34.960 that seems to ignore them.

00:23:37.340 I, and it happens at every level.

00:23:40.340 It's just, you see less of it at the local level because it is so local.

00:23:44.460 And, and so I just think that it's important for us to make sure that we're engaging with

00:23:48.560 our constituents and talking to them and not, and not pandering to fears, but actually having

00:23:53.540 intelligent discussions about ideas.

00:23:55.980 We realize it might not be the most effective way to win elections, but it is the most effective

00:24:00.760 way to make sure that people are represented in, and this is a representative democracy.

00:24:05.400 And, and I think people are quite right to feel like they're being left out of the process

00:24:09.040 because, because, you know, our, our governments are run such that, you know, decisions are made

00:24:14.420 in the prime minister's office.

00:24:15.380 The PMO makes the calls, you know, lowly MPs don't have as much influence as they probably should.

00:24:23.120 I can think of no better focus group for a leader of a political party than chatting with

00:24:28.220 their, their, their caucus members, because they're out talking to people in their communities

00:24:33.180 every day.

00:24:33.980 They know what's going on.

00:24:35.260 We need to get back to that.

00:24:37.280 We'll be back with more full comment with Scott Agenston in just a moment.

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00:25:59.480 Scott, you talked about your constituents calling and saying they got major problems whether

00:26:03.060 they heat or eat in terms of whether or not you can pay the groceries or whether or not

00:26:07.020 you can pay the heating bills.

00:26:08.360 Things spiraling out of control in an economic sense.

00:26:10.900 I saw on social media you were posting about how you are now ready to fight inflation and

00:26:16.000 you want people to join you in the fight against inflation.

00:26:19.400 How do you do that?

00:26:20.460 How does one fight inflation right now?

00:26:22.340 How does one alleviate the daily woes that so many Canadians and your constituents are feeling

00:26:26.480 right now?

00:26:29.020 Well, I mean, inflation is very much an international issue.

00:26:33.280 It's not just Canada that's dealing with it.

00:26:35.340 Part of it here, of course, is that what we can do locally and certainly within our country

00:26:40.140 is certainly get the spending under control at the federal level.

00:26:44.000 No one argues against the COVID supports that were necessary.

00:26:49.080 I would suggest that some of them were a little too lavish and not all that well structured.

00:26:54.820 But there's no need to be trying to stimulate the economy right now with deficit spending

00:26:59.720 like the Liberals are doing when the economy is firing on all cylinders and we can't find

00:27:03.640 enough people to work.

00:27:05.080 So we need to get the spending under control at the federal level.

00:27:07.520 We also need to be working within our international partners to make sure that we're all sort

00:27:14.940 of working towards that same goal.

00:27:17.700 But also, it's important that the institutions that we have in this country to manage things

00:27:23.720 like inflation, for example, the Bank of Canada, that there is a process in place to make sure

00:27:30.900 that the mandate of the Bank of Canada is precisely what the government and the people of Canada

00:27:35.860 want it to be. And instead of trying to attack the Bank of Canada for missing its inflation

00:27:43.440 targets over the last couple of reporting periods, instead of demonizing the Bank of Canada or

00:27:50.220 the governor of the Bank of Canada, we need to make sure that we're engaging with the organizations

00:27:55.680 that have actually, I think, worked very well for Canadians for decades and decades to make

00:28:01.040 sure that their mandate is correct and make sure that we're working towards those goals

00:28:07.680 that actually help Canadians afford daily life.

00:28:10.540 But the other thing, too, of course, is that I've been talking about in this election for

00:28:15.600 leader is I think it's important that we not just stop with the inflationary pressures

00:28:21.400 that we're seeing globally.

00:28:22.660 But there's lots of things that we can be doing as a country to make food more accessible

00:28:29.160 for people as well.

00:28:30.440 And one of those things is to end our supply management system.

00:28:33.760 And I'm not saying that we need to demonize farmers.

00:28:36.180 I think they've done very well in working in a system that's existed for 50 years.

00:28:40.620 But I think we need to transition away from the supply management system to create new opportunities

00:28:44.580 for our farmers on world markets and also create some more competition that actually makes

00:28:50.900 food cheaper for Canadians that are struggling to eat as well.

00:28:54.880 This, to me, is so common sense, small-c conservative policy.

00:29:01.060 And I'm surprised that I'm the only one talking about a leadership race.

00:29:05.120 Now, Scott, you mentioned we shouldn't be attacking the Bank of Canada governor.

00:29:07.600 I know that's something Pierre Polyev did recently, one of the other candidates in the

00:29:10.760 leadership race saying he would fire the governor.

00:29:13.220 Part of me appreciates why we would say, oh, you know, that's uncharted terrain.

00:29:16.760 We don't usually talk that way about that position.

00:29:18.260 Part of me also wishes, though, that, you know, in the United States, they have a much

00:29:22.020 more robust culture where they do challenge the decisions of their judges more.

00:29:27.180 And I know some judges are elected.

00:29:28.500 I don't think we should do that here.

00:29:29.360 But they challenge the judges more.

00:29:30.680 They challenge.

00:29:31.580 They're more critical of their bank figures.

00:29:33.620 They're more sort of criticized in op-eds.

00:29:35.880 Should we get in the game a bit more, whether it's firing the governor or not?

00:29:39.620 I appreciate you said we shouldn't do that.

00:29:40.700 But should we be much more engaged in these sorts of things?

00:29:43.680 I mean, we're so, these are sacred cows, we're precious about this in Canada, but maybe

00:29:48.400 we shouldn't be.

00:29:50.580 Yeah, no, I think there absolutely should be more transparent discussion and debate about

00:29:54.680 our institutions and about the direction.

00:29:58.660 I think Canadians don't really understand much about the Bank of Canada or the process

00:30:02.660 of reviewing the mandate every five years.

00:30:04.700 And so, yeah, more openness, more transparency, more engagement with citizens and constituents

00:30:10.300 to help them understand what the process is and get their input on these things.

00:30:14.180 Absolutely.

00:30:15.120 More engagement is always better.

00:30:16.620 The more people involved in the conversation, I guarantee you a better result.

00:30:21.780 But I think that attacking, you know, for the sake of drawing attention, doesn't actually

00:30:27.940 solve any problems.

00:30:29.220 Scott, you recently attended the French-language conservative leadership debate.

00:30:32.680 Lots of interesting things happen in Quebec.

00:30:35.180 There's the controversial Bill 21 around religious garments.

00:30:38.500 And then there's Bill 96, which just seemed to, at least to many of us in English Canada,

00:30:43.500 creep out of nowhere.

00:30:44.540 It just came into effect.

00:30:45.640 I was reading about it.

00:30:46.340 I thought, wow, this is really something.

00:30:48.700 A lot of people were surprised by it.

00:30:50.420 I know you've made comments on both those pieces of legislation there.

00:30:53.820 What is your message to Quebecers, your views on these bills?

00:30:58.480 Well, my message to Quebecers is the same message I would deliver to all Canadians.

00:31:02.260 And that is that, you know, the rights of Canadians, particularly minorities, matter everywhere.

00:31:09.900 And I think that, you know, I look at the situation here in North America where, you know,

00:31:16.860 Quebec is a minority, French-speaking, you know, group of people.

00:31:23.600 And they rightfully want their language and their culture protected.

00:31:29.400 And Canada has done more to protect them in a sea of English speakers than they've ever been able to do on their own.

00:31:37.160 And so while we all stand up and protect the rights of the French minority in North America,

00:31:42.120 it's important for the French minority to protect the minority Anglophones who live in Quebec.

00:31:50.480 And so minority rights matter no matter where you are.

00:31:53.260 And we should all care about minority rights.

00:31:55.480 Bill 96, really fascinating in terms of them really trying to curtail the use of English in so many spheres in the public service and deliveries of public services in private businesses.

00:32:07.120 It really goes broad.

00:32:08.600 A lot of people concerned about it all.

00:32:10.740 And I appreciate you and others have said this ain't going to fly with us.

00:32:14.420 But then Quebec premiers have no problem using the phrase notwithstanding clause whenever they talk about these sorts of pieces of legislation that make them stand out from the pack.

00:32:23.820 How does a prime minister, how does a federal government deal with these types of legislation when a Quebec premier is using words like that, tossing around the notwithstanding clause?

00:32:35.060 Well, it starts with being principled and actually taking a stand and not worrying about the electoral prospects of taking the right stand.

00:32:42.200 This is what leadership is.

00:32:43.320 It's not political.

00:32:45.420 It's about standing up for what is right, even when it might look like you might lose a couple of seats, because real leaders do what's right always.

00:32:54.180 And so I believe it starts with that.

00:32:56.860 I think that it's good to see that the current federal government has finally taken a stand on the issue of Bill 21.

00:33:07.320 And Prime Minister Trudeau has actually expressed his concern about Bill 96.

00:33:12.400 That's good.

00:33:13.320 It took an awful long time for him to do that.

00:33:15.880 But these are the kinds of things that we do.

00:33:17.840 We actually engage in the conversation instead of just cowering behind this whole business of, oh, well, that's provincial jurisdiction, because we're worried about the electoral implications of standing up for what's right.

00:33:32.440 But it has to start there, for sure.

00:33:35.320 Scott, before we go, I know you're one of the candidates with a lower name recognition compared to, say, someone like Jean Charest, who we've been familiar with for a number of years, for decades here in Canada.

00:33:45.480 As you go around the country and you're trying to persuade conservative voters to select your name on the ballot, what's your message to them?

00:33:53.300 What message would you like to leave our listeners with?

00:33:55.200 My message with conservative voters is that our movement is fractured, that we need to come together and we need to find our common purpose and we need to be united.

00:34:06.860 That unity isn't necessarily uniformity, but we have to come together and we have to demonstrate that we can be trusted to govern and lead.

00:34:15.300 We have to be consistent in our principles and proud of our principles.

00:34:18.840 The principles of the Conservative Party are, you know, they're universal and we need to be consistent in that message.

00:34:26.580 And the only way we can do it is if we work together and then deliver a consistent message to all Canadians.

00:34:32.840 And we can't stop screaming at each other and screaming at people we disagree with.

00:34:36.600 I represent somebody who can bring Canadians together, bring our party together, find that common ground and move this country forward.

00:34:45.640 Scott, thanks so much for joining us today.

00:34:48.840 Thank you.

00:34:49.520 All the best.

00:34:50.800 Full Comment is a post-media podcast.

00:34:53.040 I'm Anthony Fury.

00:34:54.120 This episode was produced by Andre Pru with theme music by Bryce Hall.

00:34:58.180 Kevin Libin is the executive producer.

00:35:00.300 You can subscribe to Full Comment on Apple Podcasts, Google, Spotify and Amazon Music.

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00:35:12.320 Thanks for listening.

Full Comment - June 06, 2022

Scott ‘peacemaker’ Aitchison wants to make us less angry

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