Scott Agenson is a conservative MP for the Ontario Riding of Muskoka-Perry Sound. Before becoming an MP in 2019, Scott was the Mayor of Huntsville, and prior to that, he was a Councillor for the region starting at the age of 21. In this episode, Scott shares his vision for the future of the Conservative Party of Canada.
00:02:05.940Thanks for joining me for the latest episode of Full Comment.
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00:02:10.980The federal conservative leadership race is still very much underway, and we have candidate Scott Agenson joining us for today's episode.
00:02:18.060Just a programming FYI, we have invited all six of the verified candidates to join us on the show,
00:02:22.600and so far we've released episodes with Pierre Polyev, Lesnar Lewis, and Roman Baber.
00:02:26.760Now, the leadership results won't be announced until September, but as of June, things are already heating up.
00:02:32.520There's been debates, some contentious moments, some classic conservative family infighting.
00:02:37.480There's been polls released, and lots of touring across the country for leaders to share their vision.
00:02:42.500Scott Agenson, who's joining us now to share his vision, is currently the conservative MP for the Ontario Riding of Muskoka-Perry Sound.
00:02:50.020Before becoming an MP in 2019, Agenson was the mayor of Huntsville, and prior to that, he was a councillor for the region starting at the age of 21.
00:06:05.880I think it's time that we start articulating vision and ideas and having discussions with Canadians about where they want this country to go.
00:06:13.280Now, I know you gave Justin Trudeau and the unvaccinated demonization as an example,
00:06:16.540but you also referenced political war rooms of all stripes.
00:06:19.560Do you believe that the Conservative Party, or at least some Conservative politicians in Canada, are problematic as well?
00:06:28.420And I would cite examples in terms of the, you know, those various wedge issues that exist in our politics and how, you know, we as Conservatives talk about it.
00:06:36.800I mean, you think about our discussions of climate change or firearms policy or, you know, you name them.
00:06:44.600You know, we can be just as divisive on these issues as others.
00:06:48.080I'll take, you know, firearms policy and legislation as just one example.
00:06:54.440You know, I think it's ridiculous how the Liberal government, you know, regularly tries to demonize law-abiding firearms owners that predominantly live in rural Canada.
00:07:03.820Well, they don't have a lot of support in rural Canada, so it's easy to do that.
00:07:07.160But there's a legitimate reason why we're talking about firearms policy.
00:07:11.400There are people that live in large urban centers that are scared because of the gun violence that exists in their communities and in their neighborhoods.
00:07:19.980But instead of talking about the real issue, the issue of illegal handguns being smuggled across our border,
00:07:26.540and the deeper issue of, you know, why there are young people in some communities in this country who feel their only hope for a future is to join a gang,
00:07:37.860So instead of having a real conversation about stopping the illegal flow of illegal handguns across our border
00:07:44.180and solving the problems of poverty and disparity in our cities, it's easy just to say we're going to ban all guns and demonize, you know, law-abiding firearms owners.
00:07:55.480And conservatives cannot just, you know, stick our heads to the stands and think that, you know, people that live in cities are stupid.
00:08:02.000They're scared for legitimate reasons.
00:08:03.600But let's have an intelligent conversation about what we need to do to solve that problem, to solve the problem of crime and violence and murder in our larger centers.
00:08:15.220I feel like we're having the conversation a bit more nuanced than before.
00:08:18.260I think when a politician proposes we've got to ban handguns or ban bullets.
00:08:21.840I remember Adam Vaughn proposed that once banning bullets.
00:08:23.960I think people now go, oh, I know the stat now about most guns coming across the border from the U.S. illegally.
00:08:29.660And I feel like liberal MPs like Bill Blair know that as well, being a former Toronto police chief.
00:08:34.740Why hasn't a more workable solution been done, Scott?
00:08:39.020Are they just not talking to the governors in those states properly or talking to the White House?
00:09:17.760But instead of listening to people that actually use guns, use firearms, who might even be firearms enthusiasts, they might not be hunters.
00:09:26.360But instead of trying to understand both sides of this issue and understand perspectives and understand that, you know, the state limiting, you know, your rights to do whatever, there has to be a good reason for it.
00:09:38.960Instead of trying to understand each other, instead of firearms owners trying to understand the fears that exist in cities, what politicians do is they use these issues as wedge issues to garner support where they need to garner support to win elections, to win more seats.
00:09:54.560And I've seen it a few times now in Ottawa where it's just, you know, instead of choosing to move the country forward, instead of choosing, you know, a solution that actually is good for all Canadians, you know, we play the political card instead and, you know, demonize the other party and don't move anything forward.
00:10:16.520And it just continues to go around and around and around and it makes it, I think it makes Canadians angry and it makes them more divided.
00:10:24.740And so our politics is directly involved in the division that exists in this country.
00:10:28.860And I fundamentally believe that it's time to change that.
00:10:32.600Scott, one of the notes I'd written in prep was to ask you how you'd like to be known as in terms of, I know nobody wants the soundbite to define them, but in terms of acknowledging, say, Jean Charest, former Quebec Liberal Premier.
00:10:44.680Okay, there you go. We know less than Lewis identified as more social conservative.
00:10:48.460Roman Baber, the guy who really didn't like the conservative lockdowns, the COVID lockdowns.
00:10:53.140You've described yourself a couple of times already as the small town mayor.
00:10:56.660And you've talked about bridging, you talked about small town Ontario, and then you've got people in rural Alberta.
00:11:00.620And then we've got a place like Huntsville where you were mayor, which is kind of, I mean, it's not living on a rural road.
00:12:35.120That is the only way Canadians will trust us to lead and govern this country again.
00:12:38.480But do we also want strong leadership and vision?
00:12:41.460And you used the phrase vision, and I want to talk to you a bit more about vision in a moment,
00:12:45.620but strong vision in a way that you're not going to win over everyone and you are going to ruffle a couple of feathers.
00:12:49.900When you say peacemaker, you know, I want to tone down the rhetoric, the tone, I go, that sounds really appealing.
00:12:54.360That's a great pitch to be intergovernmental affairs minister, speaker of the House of Commons.
00:12:58.120But how does that apply to being a leader with vision?
00:13:02.520Well, this is a very important point to make.
00:13:07.740I mean, having a vision for this country and debating ideas doesn't mean that everyone's going to agree with you.
00:13:14.600I mean, that's a very important point to make.
00:13:18.380But we don't have to be divisive and nasty about it.
00:13:21.060And in terms of vision for this country, my vision is a country that is more than the sum of its parts,
00:13:27.460that we do start working together and that we stop being, you know, ashamed or embarrassed about being like a resource superpower, for example.
00:13:35.700And we need to start listening to each other.
00:13:37.920So this is a classic example, again, of where we, you know, we just let the politics of division take over.
00:13:45.020We have some of the most environmentally sustainable and ethically produced energy in the world.
00:13:51.080And yet, you know, the issue of climate change in our environment has become so polarized that we can't even have an intelligent conversation about making a transition away from carbon-based fuels,
00:14:03.760but acknowledging that we are still going to be using carbon-based fuels for a long time.
00:14:08.880And nobody wants to talk about the fact that, you know, the oil sands, for example, they've reduced their carbon output by 30% over the last 15 years.
00:14:16.840And they continue to do more research and innovate.
00:14:21.320You know, Canadians are innovative and they're entrepreneurial.
00:14:24.480We should be exporting technology around the world to help other countries reduce their footprint as well.
00:14:30.060But we should be acknowledging, too, that, you know, while we make that transition, we're still going to use carbon-based fuels, even if we get to net zero.
00:14:37.000That doesn't mean we're not using carbon-based fuels ever.
00:14:42.880You know, you know, there's people in downtown Toronto who I've talked to that think, you know, Alberta just doesn't get it.
00:14:49.920Well, they don't realize all the incredibly remarkable things that they're doing to diversify their economy and to reduce their carbon footprint at the same time.
00:14:57.500We need to be talking about those things with each other.
00:14:59.500And this is my vision for the country, that where we actually talk to each other, we may not always agree, but we agree that we live in the greatest country on Earth and that we can make it better and that we can achieve our goals collectively and not fight about it, not hate each other in the process.
00:15:16.780And recognize that, you know, a vibrant Quebec is important for Alberta and a strong economy in Alberta is important for a vibrant Quebec.
00:15:27.800You know, we don't have to be nasty and at each other's throats all the time.
00:15:33.400You know, to your point about the climate stuff and to resource development, and we hear people talk about it more and more with, obviously, energy dependency on Russia and saying, oh, man, we got to get away from all of that.
00:15:42.020But then at the same time, to your point, there's people in urban environments who are just not at that part of the conversation.
00:15:49.740They're just still saying, why can't we shut down the oil sands?
00:15:52.700But I wonder how do we, I mean, I think you're talking about really the holy grail of turning something into a unity issue here because the facts are on the table.
00:16:01.280I always find it very interesting that the federal government's own energy fact book, Stephen Guilbault's own department, gives us the tools to see, hey, we're actually reducing our emissions per capita.
00:16:09.620Hey, we are, you know, the cleanest of all the options out there.
00:16:13.660And yet the prime minister will not at all.
00:16:16.560I know he says he supports some pipelines, but he's really not a champion for this.
00:16:20.300And the people who chain themselves to the pipelines or what have you, I think they kind of have heard these facts as well, but they just don't care.
00:16:26.940They're still chaining themselves to things.
00:16:28.320And the prime minister doesn't want to call in the cops to break that stuff up.
00:16:37.080And I think part of the issue that we've had as conservatives is that for a couple of cycles now, we haven't really had the most credible climate plan.
00:16:48.780You know, we have to be serious about this issue as conservatives as well.
00:16:53.940And so we need to be able to speak to the issues that Canadians care about, and we need to be credible on all issues.
00:17:02.880And I think it's important that we make sure that Canadians that live, as an example, that live in urban areas need to understand that maybe a carbon tax does make sense to them because they have a lot of different options to get to work, for example, or, you know, to heat their home or wherever it might be.
00:17:19.580But there are a lot of people in rural Canada who, you know, and people on fixed incomes, people that I represent, that I know full well, you know, they live, literally hand them out.
00:17:30.200Like, I've had people call me in tears this past winter because they didn't know how they were going to eat and heat their home.
00:17:36.660And so, you know, there are people that don't understand those stories, you know, they're not in a lot of work that I'm in where I talk to people about these issues.
00:17:45.300There are lots of people in my writing that think that carbon tax is great because, you know, it's helping them make some changes.
00:17:52.360I'm just saying we need to talk to each other.
00:17:54.700And this has always been my style to make sure that we try to understand the perspective of others and recognize that, yes, we do need to reduce our footprint.
00:30:50.420I know you've made comments on both those pieces of legislation there.
00:30:53.820What is your message to Quebecers, your views on these bills?
00:30:58.480Well, my message to Quebecers is the same message I would deliver to all Canadians.
00:31:02.260And that is that, you know, the rights of Canadians, particularly minorities, matter everywhere.
00:31:09.900And I think that, you know, I look at the situation here in North America where, you know,
00:31:16.860Quebec is a minority, French-speaking, you know, group of people.
00:31:23.600And they rightfully want their language and their culture protected.
00:31:29.400And Canada has done more to protect them in a sea of English speakers than they've ever been able to do on their own.
00:31:37.160And so while we all stand up and protect the rights of the French minority in North America,
00:31:42.120it's important for the French minority to protect the minority Anglophones who live in Quebec.
00:31:50.480And so minority rights matter no matter where you are.
00:31:53.260And we should all care about minority rights.
00:31:55.480Bill 96, really fascinating in terms of them really trying to curtail the use of English in so many spheres in the public service and deliveries of public services in private businesses.
00:32:08.600A lot of people concerned about it all.
00:32:10.740And I appreciate you and others have said this ain't going to fly with us.
00:32:14.420But then Quebec premiers have no problem using the phrase notwithstanding clause whenever they talk about these sorts of pieces of legislation that make them stand out from the pack.
00:32:23.820How does a prime minister, how does a federal government deal with these types of legislation when a Quebec premier is using words like that, tossing around the notwithstanding clause?
00:32:35.060Well, it starts with being principled and actually taking a stand and not worrying about the electoral prospects of taking the right stand.
00:32:45.420It's about standing up for what is right, even when it might look like you might lose a couple of seats, because real leaders do what's right always.
00:33:13.320It took an awful long time for him to do that.
00:33:15.880But these are the kinds of things that we do.
00:33:17.840We actually engage in the conversation instead of just cowering behind this whole business of, oh, well, that's provincial jurisdiction, because we're worried about the electoral implications of standing up for what's right.
00:33:35.320Scott, before we go, I know you're one of the candidates with a lower name recognition compared to, say, someone like Jean Charest, who we've been familiar with for a number of years, for decades here in Canada.
00:33:45.480As you go around the country and you're trying to persuade conservative voters to select your name on the ballot, what's your message to them?
00:33:53.300What message would you like to leave our listeners with?
00:33:55.200My message with conservative voters is that our movement is fractured, that we need to come together and we need to find our common purpose and we need to be united.
00:34:06.860That unity isn't necessarily uniformity, but we have to come together and we have to demonstrate that we can be trusted to govern and lead.
00:34:15.300We have to be consistent in our principles and proud of our principles.
00:34:18.840The principles of the Conservative Party are, you know, they're universal and we need to be consistent in that message.
00:34:26.580And the only way we can do it is if we work together and then deliver a consistent message to all Canadians.
00:34:32.840And we can't stop screaming at each other and screaming at people we disagree with.
00:34:36.600I represent somebody who can bring Canadians together, bring our party together, find that common ground and move this country forward.
00:34:45.640Scott, thanks so much for joining us today.