Full Comment - The Conservatives’ plan to outflank Carney in a snap election

00:00:00.000 Most of all, thank you to the great grassroots conservatives who work and unite here today.

00:00:10.180 And welcome to my hometown of Calgary.

00:00:12.720 The Conservative Party of Canada held a convention over the weekend in Calgary.

00:00:16.800 Party leader Pierre Polyev passed his leadership review with flying colors.

00:00:20.640 87.4% of delegates voted to keep him as their leader rather than have another leadership race.

00:00:27.200 Hello and welcome to the Full Comment Podcast.

00:00:29.340 I'm Brian Lilly, your host, and I too spent the weekend in Calgary talking with delegates,

00:00:34.540 talking with backroom operatives, MPs, candidates, and Conservative supporters,

00:00:38.540 along with many, many fans of Full Comment.

00:00:41.300 Thank you. Keep listening.

00:00:42.840 It was an interesting event and one that showed a party more confident and buoyant than outsiders might think.

00:00:48.560 The people I was speaking with were excited about their party, excited about their leader,

00:00:52.980 looking to the future with many expecting a spring election.

00:00:56.120 In this episode, you're going to hear from Calgary MP Michelle Rempel-Garner, MP Jamil Javani from the GTA,

00:01:03.080 Conservative campaign manager Steve Outhouse, party whip and Grand Prairie MP Chris Workington,

00:01:08.440 and longtime operative staffer, pundit, and candidate Gary Keller.

00:01:12.660 On Friday night, just before voting began on whether Polyev should stay or go,

00:01:17.320 he opened his speech meant to rally the troops with some humor.

00:01:20.620 I love seeing so many conservatives in one place, but it must freak the liberals out enough to invoke the Emergencies Act.

00:01:29.580 Polyev's speech focused on issues that he feels matter to his voters.

00:01:33.440 Affordability, housing, dealing with the fentanyl crisis.

00:01:36.500 It wasn't a speech all about Donald Trump and the evil Americans.

00:01:40.220 Instead, it was a solid speech that policy-wise didn't break new ground.

00:01:43.420 But there was one section where he revealed something he hasn't really talked about much.

00:01:48.760 While discussing what motivates him, what keeps him going, he mentioned his autistic daughter, Valentina.

00:01:54.800 Polyev and his wife, Anna, have been fairly guarded in what they have to say about Valentina,

00:01:59.400 letting out bits and pieces, but being private about what can be a difficult topic to discuss.

00:02:04.960 Valentina has been non-verbal.

00:02:07.260 On Friday night, Polyev got emotional speaking about that and a recent change.

00:02:11.820 Hope, that's really the theme of this convention and this evening.

00:02:16.780 Hope is on the way for our people as well.

00:02:19.500 But hope is not just a comforting blanket.

00:02:24.040 Hope is the knowledge that your work will fulfill your purpose, your why.

00:02:30.700 He who has a why can bear any how, Viktor Frankl wrote in the great book, Man's Search for Meaning.

00:02:43.460 That thing that you call meaning could be for you a home, a career, a family, a business.

00:02:50.960 Seeing your autistic daughter speak for the first time is the thing.

00:02:57.920 It's the thing.

00:02:58.840 It was one of a few emotional and personal moments for Polyev, who also spoke up against anti-Semitism and against Alberta separation.

00:03:07.840 He spoke about hope and bringing hope to the many Canadians who have lost it.

00:03:11.980 And he also explained why he wanted to keep fighting for Canada and the future.

00:03:15.760 Because the unsung heroes who built and protect this country, who have it infinitely harder than I do, they never give up.

00:03:23.480 So I have no right to give up.

00:03:25.600 Because all of you who pound signs on frozen ground, knock doors on dark nights, and sacrifice warm family dinners for cold campaign pizza, you never give up.

00:03:37.280 So I'll never give up.

00:03:38.580 And with that, members were off to vote.

00:03:42.360 Broadcasting at the conference with other MPs across the Conservative Party's various channels was Michelle Rempel-Garner, who took some time to unpack the convention and the result with me.

00:03:53.740 Notorious MRG.

00:03:55.700 Do you like that nickname?

00:03:57.440 Yeah, I've heard it a few people now, from a few people now.

00:04:00.260 Thanks, Lily.

00:04:01.160 Jeez.

00:04:02.920 Okay, so this place is still buzzing.

00:04:06.700 The day after the vote, 87.4%.

00:04:10.880 But now, looking forward, election prep, convincing Canadians you got the right plan.

00:04:16.820 Big job.

00:04:18.040 It is.

00:04:18.760 And I think the tension in the next few weeks, as the Liberals, I think they're pre-positioning for a snap election.

00:04:27.640 But there's going to be a lot of tension where they, I think they want us to move away from questions of affordability, of crime, immigration, the bread and butter issues that are still affecting Canadians.

00:04:41.960 Now, we know that part of that is, you know, some of the questions on sovereignty, on strengthening Canada's competitiveness.

00:04:51.280 There's other issues too.

00:04:52.660 Military, pipelines, energy sector.

00:04:56.220 But the thing is, is like, we have proposals and plans for all of these things.

00:05:00.440 I think what they're going to want us to move away from is, like, the fact that they don't have that.

00:05:05.980 So, for us, it's going to be both holding them to account on some of their lack of plans, lack of action, while also getting our message out.

00:05:16.180 And in a very short order, I think.

00:05:18.040 Even where you are, not your riding specifically, but Alberta, beef is a big issue.

00:05:24.280 That wasn't addressed in Kearney's China deal.

00:05:27.620 Where you're originally from in Manitoba, pork is huge.

00:05:30.420 We've heard from Premier Canoe about that.

00:05:32.900 That wasn't addressed.

00:05:35.020 So, there are areas that still need to be addressed.

00:05:37.760 You can't just say, mission accomplished.

00:05:40.080 No, and, you know, the list goes far longer than that too.

00:05:44.860 One of my close friends is Claire Rattay.

00:05:47.400 She's the MLA for Skeena.

00:05:49.900 And, you know, she's talking about forestry and how there's been no action on forestry and how much that's affected her community.

00:05:56.260 Tariffs are now up to, what, about 45% effective?

00:05:59.500 Exactly.

00:06:00.300 And then, you know, you start looking at some of the domestic policy issues that are causing food inflation to be the highest in the G7.

00:06:08.040 You know, you and I could yak for an hour on these things.

00:06:12.020 But for us, I think it is going to be continuing to talk to, to show that there is not a plan there from the Liberal government.

00:06:21.920 There's significant consequences for that.

00:06:25.280 But then also showing some hope for Canadians in the path forward that we've developed, which we've already started to roll out this fall.

00:06:31.520 I mean, I've put forward dozens of concrete reforms for the immigration system.

00:06:38.160 A lot of my colleagues with different policy portfolio responsibilities have been doing the same.

00:06:43.500 And I think, like, to your point, when we started talking, what happened last night was such a resounding outcome for Pierre.

00:06:49.820 is that it's like, yep, okay, unified, onwards, onwards, let's go.

00:06:54.380 And I do feel like the energy shifted last night in a really good way.

00:07:00.380 Like, it was, okay, we're through this.

00:07:02.260 Let's, now, now, now we're going into election readiness whenever that might be.

00:07:08.880 So I want to talk to you about immigration specifically in a moment because you are the critic on that file.

00:07:14.600 But the message last night was clear.

00:07:19.480 It was unequivocal about hope.

00:07:21.680 Now, I heard a lot of people say during the campaign, Pierre Polly, I was always negative.

00:07:27.040 My reaction was, I don't think you're listening.

00:07:29.440 But that was their perception.

00:07:30.680 And perception in politics becomes reality.

00:07:33.860 No one can listen to that speech and say hope wasn't at the center of it.

00:07:37.620 How important is that pivot at this point?

00:07:40.220 Well, of course people want hope.

00:07:42.000 It's one of the things you need to get by in your daily life as a human, right?

00:07:47.580 But I think saying, okay, here's why you should be hopeful doesn't mean that we can't talk about the problems that people are facing.

00:07:57.380 And I think some of the challenge, some of the division you've seen in the country and frustration in Canada right now

00:08:03.380 is because there are literally millions of people who feel like they haven't had their concerns heard.

00:08:08.880 So giving voice to issues and then saying, okay, well, here's how we're going to solve them.

00:08:14.280 To me, like the hope has two sides of that coin.

00:08:17.480 It's saying, I see you and I hear you.

00:08:19.320 I hear that you're struggling.

00:08:20.700 Here's how I'm going to fix it.

00:08:22.500 And, you know, for the liberals, the contrast from Pierre's speech last night, which I think had both sides of that coin.

00:08:27.960 The liberals have just said, here's some vibes, right?

00:08:30.100 And I know that that matters.

00:08:32.100 Here's a check to pay for your groceries, which didn't used to be unaffordable, but are now.

00:08:36.780 Well, and that was like, it's a rewarmed policy from several years ago.

00:08:43.500 Instead of, and in the meantime, when grocery prices have continued to increase,

00:08:49.140 I was in a major Canadian low-cost grocery chain, low-cost in quotation marks.

00:08:54.940 And, you know, a can of basic coffee was 33 bucks this week.

00:08:58.640 Oh, my God.

00:09:00.100 I digress.

00:09:01.160 The point is, is that we're out of time in this country on a lot of issues.

00:09:07.040 And I think that the urgency for us is to show people that we get that, we hear that.

00:09:15.080 And, you know, in Parliament, as Parliament sits, hold the government to account for the big grand promises they've made

00:09:22.720 while showing alternative solutions as a government and waiting to fix those problems.

00:09:29.360 That's what we're going to do.

00:09:30.200 I mean, I'm ready to get on the plane tomorrow morning, get back into the House,

00:09:33.940 and continue on not just only with my immigration portfolio responsibilities,

00:09:38.060 but also to be a strong voice for Alberta in the middle of a, you know, a challenging time

00:09:43.560 where there are people who have questions about Canada and the Liberal government's performance in our province.

00:09:50.100 So, anyway, a lot of work to do.

00:09:51.840 I saw the Ipsos poll saying 28% in Alberta support independence.

00:09:55.900 I think it's probably higher.

00:09:57.320 With all due respect to my friend Daryl Bricker, I think it's higher.

00:10:00.200 And comments calling people traitors don't help.

00:10:02.760 I think, you know, David Eby and others are driving people into the camp saying,

00:10:08.460 well, see, they don't like us anyway.

00:10:11.400 How big of a concern is it for you?

00:10:13.600 What do you hear when you're on home turf like you are now?

00:10:16.800 This is no surprise to me.

00:10:17.940 I wrote a fairly spicy document.

00:10:20.820 It'll be a six-year anniversary, actually, in February called the Buffalo Declaration.

00:10:25.000 I remember it.

00:10:25.780 So, I actually, like, I read through it a couple of weeks ago, and it was so prescient.

00:10:30.040 You know, I think, in hindsight, if the pandemic hadn't happened exactly when I put it out,

00:10:35.280 there would have been more discussion.

00:10:36.660 But this isn't something that's new.

00:10:38.420 Like, this has been simmering for years now since the impacts of a decade of disastrous liberal policies

00:10:46.220 have fundamentally shifted the ability for Albertans to participate in many areas of the economy.

00:10:52.880 And so, for me, as an Alberta MP, two things.

00:10:57.340 Like, I run as a conservative because, you know, as Pierre said in his speech last night,

00:11:01.220 it's something I've always said, you don't see national unity crises under a conservative government.

00:11:05.840 I sat in Stephen Harper's cabinet, and I can tell you,

00:11:09.120 the goal was to, if there was regional issues or regional tensions, was to solve it.

00:11:16.140 And if there was a policy where you couldn't fix that, it was, okay, well, do we really need this?

00:11:20.760 Is this in the best interest of the country?

00:11:22.800 It's the opposite with the Liberals.

00:11:24.020 That's number one.

00:11:24.640 And number two, you know, I'm not going to shy away from talking about the concerns that,

00:11:31.900 valid concerns that people are bringing up about fairness and equality.

00:11:37.600 I'm an Albertan, too.

00:11:38.740 I care about these things.

00:11:39.780 And for me, a lot of these questions on sovereignty, it's like, well, ask Mark Carney about this.

00:11:47.560 You know, like, does he think these concerns are valid?

00:11:51.740 You know, like, are you just going to dismiss what's happening here?

00:11:55.940 And I think if he does, that's really irresponsible.

00:11:58.840 So, you know.

00:11:59.240 I worry that if they do call a snap election and get a majority, that it will fuel the independence movement in Alberta.

00:12:06.720 Well, I think that we have a very good chance.

00:12:09.180 I know everybody, the liberal industrial doom spiral complex that is the, you know, leftist media in Canada are going to try and paint this narrative that we're not competitive.

00:12:19.460 But that's not what polling shows you are.

00:12:21.920 Let's talk on an issue where you guys are hitting a nerve, I think.

00:12:26.160 And I know you've got to go get a sandwich.

00:12:28.180 Everyone's got to eat.

00:12:29.900 So let's talk about immigration, though.

00:12:32.900 It's an issue that the Liberals refused to say for a long time was an issue.

00:12:37.240 They wanted to deny it as numbers crept up, as the temporary foreign worker program went out of control.

00:12:45.360 They've reduced on some fronts, but they are still at huge numbers.

00:12:49.400 400,000 for permanent residents.

00:12:51.500 The asylum claim system, which I know you document well, it's over 300,000 now waiting for a hearing, isn't it?

00:12:57.360 Yes. And there's something else.

00:13:00.900 I'm so glad you asked this because I actually wanted to talk to you about it anyways.

00:13:04.320 So the Liberals have set these numbers, which are still really high, making the assumption or predicated on the assumption that, you know,

00:13:12.160 2 million plus people that are in Canada on expired or expiring visas are going to leave.

00:13:18.720 So the question becomes like, okay, well, what happens if they all stay?

00:13:22.880 I had something called an order paper question.

00:13:25.400 You're well acquainted with this for your listeners who aren't.

00:13:27.480 It's this tool where you can, MPs can get, you know, data out of the federal government on where all of the asylum claims were coming from.

00:13:39.440 What streams of entry?

00:13:40.460 The answer to this was released on Monday, and you would be shocked to see the numbers of asylum claims that are coming from foreign student visas that have expired.

00:13:49.520 It is exorbitantly high.

00:13:52.560 And I knew that it was going to be very high, but it was off the charts.

00:13:56.320 And so for me, it's like, okay, well, if you don't have a plan to follow the law, ensure that the law is enforced and people who are here temporarily actually leave,

00:14:06.480 then you can't keep adding millions of people over a five-year period to Canada when we don't have housing, health care, and jobs infrastructure to support that.

00:14:17.020 So, you know, I think that there's a bigger conversation to be had.

00:14:20.380 We're going to be pressing them on removals because that's the law, right?

00:14:25.500 Would that go over well right now with what's happening in the U.S.?

00:14:29.460 And so many Canadians are obsessed with American news.

00:14:32.320 And they'll say, oh, see, the Conservatives want to bring ICE to Canada.

00:14:35.640 I don't think one bit that we've done anything close to the sort.

00:14:41.540 And I think, frankly, if people, you know, if the far left want to suggest that questions like saying, like, okay,

00:14:48.680 existing Canadian law says that if you are here on a temporary visa or an expiring visa, you need to leave.

00:14:55.500 Oh, hey, government, how are you going to enforce that?

00:14:58.940 That's my job as an opposition member.

00:15:00.880 And I think people would actually get mad at me for not asking those questions, given that it's not fair for anybody to, you know,

00:15:07.660 to watch the impacts of too many people too fast in the country.

00:15:11.540 Number one source that I hear complaints about this from are people who came through the traditional legal channels.

00:15:17.780 Yes.

00:15:18.480 And that's the thing.

00:15:19.320 It's not fair to anybody.

00:15:20.380 It's not fair to people who are waiting in the queue, playing by the rules.

00:15:23.180 It's not fair to people who came here. 1.00

00:15:27.120 I especially think of temporary foreign workers who oftentimes are abused by employers.

00:15:31.940 There was, again, one of these order paper questions that came out this week that showed the actual number of tips to the abuse line

00:15:38.140 that hadn't been litigated or investigated.

00:15:40.800 Shocking.

00:15:41.980 It's not fair to anybody.

00:15:42.940 So, in order for there to be consensus on immigration, it has to be fair and orderly.

00:15:50.180 And I think that's just common sense to get there.

00:15:53.700 Michelle Rempel, thank you.

00:15:55.240 Good luck in the coming election.

00:15:57.220 Thank you.

00:15:57.560 Well, hey, don't know for sure, but I was the first one to write about it in January.

00:16:02.620 I'm just saying.

00:16:04.180 Chris Warkington is the Conservative Party whip, one of Polyev's close advisors,

00:16:08.600 and someone in charge of keeping MPs in the House of Commons all moving in the same direction.

00:16:13.560 He also believes, looking at the signs, well, the Liberals appear to be planning for that spring election we keep talking about,

00:16:19.800 in case they want one or need one.

00:16:21.680 But he doesn't think Canadians are going to believe Carney's narrative.

00:16:25.360 Importantly, he also points out that the Conservatives have offered to work with the Liberals

00:16:30.180 and, in fact, have already given Carney enough power to start building major projects.

00:16:35.180 He's just not doing it.

00:16:36.960 Obviously, we have worked with the Liberals to pass legislation that they say that they need to get stuff done.

00:16:44.420 What's startling is just how little Mark Carney has done.

00:16:47.740 You know, he had C5 because he needed that to ensure that he could get big projects done immediately.

00:16:53.400 Then he created this big office, spent, you know, a million bucks hiring staff, but have done nothing.

00:16:59.280 Like, there's just nothing happening.

00:17:01.460 And I think that Canadians are starting to ask the question, you know,

00:17:06.140 is he actually going to get stuff done that he claimed he was going to get done?

00:17:09.820 He said he'd have a deal with the Americans. 0.63

00:17:11.560 He said he'd get big projects built.

00:17:13.080 He said he was going to, you know, he was going to get the budget into some better shape.

00:17:20.040 Obviously, he's broken that promise, but really underperformed on a whole bunch of other things.

00:17:24.800 So I think that, you know, at the end, you know, we have to do our job to actually articulate a clear vision

00:17:31.300 as to how we would get done, what we say that will get done.

00:17:35.260 Canadians are going to now demand politicians in the next election actually lay out their plan

00:17:40.460 rather than just believing that, you know, a politician like Mark Carney,

00:17:43.760 because he said he's going to do something, that'll do it.

00:17:46.220 Well, you're an Alberta MP.

00:17:48.040 The major projects office is close to where we're standing right now.

00:17:52.520 They have had a lot of promises.

00:17:55.940 Carney submitted two lists, but even admitted just because he submits a list

00:17:59.440 doesn't mean the project gets approved.

00:18:01.020 So how are you viewing that now?

00:18:03.040 I'm sure you probably thought, okay, good, she's doing something at the start,

00:18:07.100 but how are you viewing it now?

00:18:08.320 Well, I think what we're seeing is that there's a lot of speeches

00:18:11.480 and there's a lot of, you know, words that he's been, you know, giving,

00:18:16.560 but he's the same old liberal.

00:18:17.680 He's depending on the, you know, he's leaning on the bureaucracy.

00:18:21.280 He's building a larger and larger bureaucracy,

00:18:23.240 spending more and more money on consultants

00:18:25.020 and getting the same outcome that Justin Trudeau did,

00:18:28.220 doing the same thing that Justin Trudeau did.

00:18:30.320 So I think that, you know, we are disappointed.

00:18:34.140 We expected that he would do at least some of what he said he was going to do.

00:18:38.300 He said he's going to move at unimaginable speed.

00:18:41.320 We gave him C5.

00:18:42.620 It doesn't require that he set up an office.

00:18:44.400 And C5 was passed last June.

00:18:46.540 It's been months now.

00:18:48.600 It didn't require a large project office.

00:18:51.240 It required that he say yes.

00:18:53.400 And as of yet, he hasn't said yes to anything.

00:18:57.160 And that statement that he made when he set up the major projects office

00:19:01.420 and put forward his list that it still doesn't mean it gets built,

00:19:05.320 that was shocking to me because I thought that if the prime minister

00:19:09.280 went to the premiers and said,

00:19:11.560 give me your major projects and we'll review them and then approve them,

00:19:15.200 and then he does, and he says, but it doesn't mean it's approved yet.

00:19:18.960 We're going to study it now.

00:19:20.020 So that's not moving at speeds not seen in generations.

00:19:24.180 Well, and that's not what Bill C5 allows him to do.

00:19:27.740 What does Bill C5 allow him to do?

00:19:29.600 It allows him and his ministers to approve projects.

00:19:32.000 There's no requirement that there be a large project office.

00:19:34.960 There's no requirement that the bureaucracy signs off on it.

00:19:37.580 It's the ability for the prime minister to sign off on projects, him alone.

00:19:45.160 So now he's setting up all of these road, you know, these hurdles,

00:19:49.020 these road bumps and saying, well, it's not me, it's somebody else.

00:19:52.420 I think what happened was we gave him the tools to get the job done,

00:19:56.700 and it scared him.

00:19:57.860 And it scared him because his ministers, his caucus was saying,

00:20:02.420 we're not going to stand behind you if you approve certain projects.

00:20:05.680 And so all of a sudden he's now looking for scapegoats.

00:20:09.480 So he's creating these bureaucratic scapegoats that sound, you know,

00:20:14.500 sound like they're positive, but when you actually look at the fine print,

00:20:18.640 they're actually building encumbrances and limiting what he could have done unilaterally.

00:20:24.900 That's the power that he has.

00:20:27.060 He's not using it.

00:20:28.860 And I think Canadians are going to catch on to that.

00:20:31.520 All right. Thank you.

00:20:32.480 Awesome.

00:20:32.760 When we come back, the man with a very tough job getting the Conservative Party ready

00:20:37.680 for the next election, the party's new campaign manager, Steve Outhouse.

00:20:42.100 This is Tristan Hopper, the host of Canada Did What?,

00:20:45.380 where we unpack the biggest, weirdest, and wildest political moments in Canadian history

00:20:49.900 you thought you knew and tell you what really happened.

00:20:53.500 Stick around at the end of the episode to hear a sample of one of our favourite episodes.

00:20:57.980 If you don't want to stick around, make sure you subscribe to Canada Did What?

00:21:02.440 everywhere you get podcasts.

00:21:03.820 As we discussed on Full Comment last week, a snap election is possible.

00:21:07.960 The Liberals are certainly setting the table for one, which makes Steve Outhouse's job

00:21:12.560 more difficult.

00:21:13.520 He has to get the party ready at a moment's notice to fight an election.

00:21:16.720 They've got the money, having raised a record $48 million last year.

00:21:20.640 But Outhouse just took over in December from former campaign manager and director Jenny Byrne.

00:21:26.000 By the way, Byrne was at the convention, I spoke with her briefly, and she denies the claim

00:21:30.900 that her critics are making that she's still the real boss for the next campaign. 0.81

00:21:35.380 She says, look, I'm around if anybody needs advice, but Steve is the one in charge.

00:21:40.220 Here is my conversation with the man in charge, Steve Outhouse.

00:21:43.460 Morning after the vote, how are you feeling with 87.4%?

00:21:47.260 That's almost 90%.

00:21:48.900 Yeah, we're feeling fantastic after the vote last night.

00:21:51.580 I mean, to have over 87%, you know, when I got here earlier this week, the mood was

00:21:57.020 very, very positive and very, very upbeat, but you can't read into anecdotal evidence.

00:22:02.480 And so to see the results come out last night was very rewarding.

00:22:05.500 I think it gives a clear mandate, and at this point in time, we can, you know, focus on the

00:22:08.880 election ahead.

00:22:10.020 So the, I mean, there is a lot of talk about a coming election.

00:22:14.520 Yeah.

00:22:15.120 Your job is to be ready.

00:22:16.640 You started in December, I think it was.

00:22:19.280 How are things doing?

00:22:20.540 You know, does campaign readiness suddenly go from months to a year from now to weeks,

00:22:27.080 perhaps?

00:22:28.360 Since we started, or since I started, I guess, like you said, in December, I mean, I would

00:22:33.480 love to know the timing, and I'll continue to leave the door open if the Liberals wish

00:22:36.480 to send me a note and just let me know.

00:22:38.420 I can put that into my planner and start working.

00:22:41.080 At the same time, I've said since the beginning, well, look, this could be three months or it

00:22:44.560 could be three years.

00:22:45.380 So we'll be ready to go this spring if they choose to call an election.

00:22:49.640 I don't think they need to call an election.

00:22:51.160 I think they have the mandate that they need to go ahead and negotiate and get a deal with

00:22:55.940 President Trump.

00:22:57.700 And we haven't really seen that yet take place.

00:22:59.840 However, this is politics, and often people are going to look for partisan interest rather

00:23:06.980 than what's for the good of the country.

00:23:08.400 And I think right now, there's a lot of things that would make it attractive for the Liberals

00:23:12.000 to try to call this election.

00:23:12.960 Well, when I look at the Davos speech, the reaction to it, the speech in Quebec City, very

00:23:19.380 nationalistic, didn't play well in certain parts of Quebec, but, you know, nationalistic

00:23:23.920 and historic, you know, and then handing out money and then calling your party obstructionist.

00:23:32.520 Sounds like they're at least setting the table so if they want to have an election meal, it's

00:23:36.680 ready.

00:23:36.860 Yeah, I think that's exactly it.

00:23:39.660 You've observed politics for quite some time, and you can see that, you know, all the bread

00:23:43.820 crumbs being put down.

00:23:45.840 It doesn't mean they will go.

00:23:46.980 It doesn't mean, no, but we have to be ready.

00:23:49.320 And that's exactly the tone that they're setting.

00:23:51.600 And that's why we wanted to make sure that, you know, the leader had written the Prime Minister

00:23:55.800 to say, look, we're ready to get down to business.

00:23:58.400 We're pledging cooperation.

00:23:59.940 We're ready to move from, you know, rhetoric to results, as he said.

00:24:03.260 We can help fast-track some bills.

00:24:04.940 We can do some things, things that we might like to do better on bail reform and so on.

00:24:08.340 But, hey, a step forward is better than nothing at all.

00:24:10.880 Let's get this done.

00:24:11.660 Let's get it off the books, you know, and move some things forward to help some Canadians

00:24:15.640 and get some results.

00:24:16.640 Let's approve a pipeline, you know, once that application comes in and so on.

00:24:20.100 So there's a lot that we can do to help move these things along, and we're ready to do that.

00:24:24.480 And I think that was a good-faith move by the leader, and now it's up to the government.

00:24:28.260 Now it's interesting to see, you know, some Liberal ministers go out and, even with that

00:24:32.260 letter in hand, still claim obstructionists and, you know, start to talk about the fine

00:24:36.520 points of committee here and there.

00:24:38.360 Anyway, all we can do is be ready, and we're ready to work for Canadians.

00:24:42.060 You were successful here in Alberta by getting the United Conservative Party Premier Smith to

00:24:48.460 pivot.

00:24:49.720 You were successful in Newfoundland, and, you know, I had started to think the PCs may not

00:24:54.180 win in Newfoundland for who knows how long.

00:24:56.640 It's been a while.

00:24:58.260 Um, what are you looking at in terms of pivot points connecting, getting that extra bump?

00:25:04.320 Because, you know, 40% from the last election, that normally wins you a majority.

00:25:09.480 You're looking for new ways to reach out to low-propensity voters?

00:25:12.540 Are you looking to tap into people who are maybe lent their vote to Mark Carney last time

00:25:17.820 and are now saying, well, where are the results?

00:25:20.480 What are you doing?

00:25:20.920 Yeah, so I won't lay out strategy per se, but I think in fairness...

00:25:24.740 You're not going to tell us everything?

00:25:25.720 Yeah, yeah, I'll email it, and you can put it on all your platforms, it'll be fine, but

00:25:30.780 no, but in, like, not getting into specific strategy, but I don't think this is telling

00:25:35.040 anything that would shock people.

00:25:36.660 I mean, obviously, you know, our strength right now is with young voters, which of course

00:25:41.480 is a shift for us as a movement overall, and we're excited about it.

00:25:44.900 So we do have to keep reaching out to more and more younger voters who will be voting

00:25:49.400 for their first time and finding ways to get them engaged.

00:25:52.940 At the same time, you know, despite having a historic level of support and vote that we

00:25:58.680 got, you know, the last time around, we did lose the support of some older, in particular

00:26:03.700 male voters that decided to, you know, park their vote with Carney and the Liberals for the

00:26:08.800 last election.

00:26:09.640 Folks that, you know, traditionally may have voted Conservative.

00:26:11.780 They are much more traditional, Conservative-leaning voters.

00:26:14.900 So it is a both-and that we need to continue to engage new voters that are very much aligned

00:26:20.900 and have those top-of-mind concerns that have been the strength of our leader and our party

00:26:24.760 of, you know, cost of living, you know, crime, housing being a big one, you know, but then

00:26:29.840 continue to talk to those others that may be a bit more seized with the international

00:26:33.460 scene as well.

00:26:34.280 So we're going to be looking at all that.

00:26:36.060 I did hear complaints from some of my media colleagues who are seized with the international

00:26:40.660 thing.

00:26:40.940 I mean, they didn't talk enough, Pierre didn't talk enough about Trump.

00:26:44.480 I mean, you've got to have a position, but the more you talk about Trump, the more it

00:26:48.780 helps the Liberals.

00:26:50.340 I found the speech talking about the trade issues and the impact on jobs to be quite

00:26:55.780 effective.

00:26:56.260 Yeah.

00:26:56.700 Well, and what are people looking for?

00:26:58.540 Are they looking for us to just, you know, focus on Trump?

00:27:00.560 Are they looking to understand where we stand about Canada's place in the world?

00:27:03.500 And to me, having a strong Canada that can actually manufacture things at home, what I'm frustrated

00:27:08.040 about, you know, as a Canadian is that since COVID hit, there was all this talk about we

00:27:12.680 need to bring back supply chains.

00:27:14.380 You know, we have to do manufacturing here.

00:27:15.980 We have to be independent.

00:27:17.420 The Liberal government has done nothing on that for now over a decade, you know, first

00:27:21.600 through Trudeau.

00:27:22.140 And now this is continuing along with the allegedly new, you know, Canada's new government.

00:27:28.060 And so, of course, when our opponents say, well, you need to pivot and you need to change

00:27:32.260 and you need to do this, what they want us to do, and it's a smart political strategy.

00:27:36.380 Yeah.

00:27:36.560 Let's get over to an area where we're polling really well and have you play on our, you

00:27:39.680 know, in our, you know, our field.

00:27:41.720 And it's like, this is one of the issues for sure.

00:27:44.740 And it's an important issue.

00:27:46.200 But just like the Liberals, you know, the Liberals don't want to talk about cost of living and

00:27:49.580 housing.

00:27:49.820 So, I mean, this is where a bit of the message battle goes on.

00:27:52.960 So, I'm proud of the speech last night.

00:27:54.520 I think it laid out the principles of, you know, Canada's place in the world.

00:27:58.480 And I think that was a great way to go.

00:28:00.560 Without getting into the weeds and personal rifts, you know, part of your success in Alberta

00:28:06.580 was conservative unity.

00:28:09.660 The UCP is an infamously factional party, which can be great for people like me, bad for you 0.66

00:28:16.780 if you're trying to win.

00:28:17.520 How do you bring about unity?

00:28:20.100 I know there have been some conversations with people that were, you know, felt alienated

00:28:24.040 or there were trouble between the leader and them in the past, but not all.

00:28:29.020 How do you bring about unity and get everyone saying, all right, here's the mission?

00:28:33.160 Yeah.

00:28:34.320 Definitely teamwork is an important part of what I like to try to bring to the table of any

00:28:38.560 team that I come to work with or for.

00:28:41.060 So, yeah, and in Alberta, it was very important.

00:28:44.280 And I, you know, we could talk to our caucus and talk to our people.

00:28:46.520 They were coming out of a leadership race.

00:28:48.240 And there was a lot of people who've been on different sides of things, but they were

00:28:50.980 all working together.

00:28:51.940 And they wanted to win.

00:28:53.460 And they all got together.

00:28:54.960 And we did it.

00:28:56.220 And I think that's an example we can point to here.

00:28:58.200 And I want to help build those relationships wherever I can.

00:29:01.280 I'm looking forward to going to the Nova Scotia PC's AGM next weekend out in Halifax and connecting

00:29:05.640 with a lot of people there.

00:29:07.180 I've had some good discussions with people in the Ontario PC's and, of course, again,

00:29:11.600 in Alberta.

00:29:12.540 And BC's going through their leadership right now, but still kind of touching base with

00:29:16.040 the people there and the party and so on.

00:29:17.740 So, yeah, I want to build those relationships up all across the country because we need to

00:29:21.040 have the full conservative coalition together.

00:29:23.840 And obviously, you know, that worked in Newfoundland right now where there's, yeah, are there some

00:29:27.780 differences between the federal party and the provincial PC's?

00:29:30.860 For sure.

00:29:31.320 But they got together, the MPs worked with their candidates, and we saw victory there.

00:29:36.840 And I really hope that we can do that on the national scene.

00:29:39.540 Thanks so much.

00:29:40.400 Thanks, Brian.

00:29:41.080 All right.

00:29:41.560 All the best.

00:29:42.220 Appreciate it.

00:29:42.560 Gary Keller is a veteran of many political campaigns.

00:29:45.680 He ran in Nipissing-Temiskimane in the last election.

00:29:48.320 For years, he was chief of staff to John Baird, including when Baird was foreign affairs

00:29:52.300 minister.

00:29:53.060 And he's been around commenting on federal politics for more than 20 years.

00:29:56.900 He says bringing Steve Outhouse fresh off provincial winds in Alberta, Newfoundland, is a smart

00:30:02.160 move.

00:30:02.860 He called it one of the structural changes that need to be made to help the Conservatives

00:30:07.460 win the next election.

00:30:08.980 Keller also said that despite what some critics are saying, Polyev himself is also making changes

00:30:14.340 in how he approaches things.

00:30:15.840 I think as well, I think what you saw the other day, Mr. Polyev's response to Mr.

00:30:20.640 Carney's speech, Davos speech, I thought it was the tone was right.

00:30:26.120 It laid out an approach that did recognize where he agreed with Mr. Carney, but laid out

00:30:31.780 where he disagreed without.

00:30:33.460 And very clearly laid out where you can disagree with policies without being disagreeable.

00:30:38.860 Now, last week in the House, this last week in the House of Commons, we've seen government

00:30:42.180 House leader Steve McKinnon.

00:30:43.940 He has been off his rocker trying to goad Conservatives, calling them obstructionists,

00:30:49.980 even though Mr. Polyev and the Conservatives issued a letter and saying, we'll support the

00:30:53.200 government on these key issues, including bail reform.

00:30:55.680 And so, while the Liberals are trying to gin up people in the House of Commons and outside,

00:31:03.740 you know, I think Mr. Polyev and his team are focused on doing the building blocks to create

00:31:08.340 the right conditions to fight the next election.

00:31:11.000 And that includes having candidates in place earlier and organization in place earlier.

00:31:15.640 You mentioned Steve McKinnon calling the government or the opposition obstructionist.

00:31:20.380 I mean, they were blaming the Conservatives for the bail bill, bail reform bill not being

00:31:26.120 voted on.

00:31:26.980 They had not called it to committee that they control.

00:31:29.740 So, to me, when you look at the Davos speech, the reaction of the Davos speech, which Carney

00:31:36.080 knew would come, you look at the expanded GST rebate, you look at the language of obstructions,

00:31:44.120 it does feel like, I'm not saying they will go to an early election, but it feels like they're

00:31:48.080 setting the groundwork so that if they need to, if they want to, they can.

00:31:51.720 Are you reading it that way?

00:31:53.760 Somewhat, I'm reading it that way.

00:31:55.020 I think there are people within the Liberal Party apparatus and perhaps even in the caucus

00:31:59.380 and in the cabinet who would like to go to an election sooner rather than later.

00:32:04.700 I'm not convinced that Mark Carney himself wants to go to an election.

00:32:07.880 Look, I don't think he loves campaigning.

00:32:09.860 He's not a natural campaigner.

00:32:11.920 I don't think he loved the last 36 days of the campaign.

00:32:15.200 And, you know, there were a lot of smart people around him who said, don't worry, Mr.

00:32:18.840 Carney, you're going to get your 185, 190 seats.

00:32:21.820 You're going to get your majority.

00:32:23.300 And what happened?

00:32:24.280 He didn't get it.

00:32:25.320 So I think he looks back at that and says, OK, smart guys, you said I was going to get

00:32:29.320 my majority.

00:32:29.940 I didn't.

00:32:30.900 What's to say that if you say I'm going to get it now, then we don't get the same result.

00:32:34.980 And so I think he himself might be the voice of reason within the Liberal Party who, but

00:32:40.920 clearly to your point, you know, Steve McKinnon and others are, you know, ramping up the

00:32:45.060 rhetoric.

00:32:46.180 It's, you know, it's up to 11 out of 10.

00:32:49.660 How does Pierre Polyev, how does the party deal with Donald Trump?

00:32:55.020 Because the reaction to that Davos speech, look, I'm in the minority.

00:32:58.200 I did not think it was a great speech because of the policy undertones and what I knew would

00:33:02.680 come later.

00:33:03.860 So I was not a fan.

00:33:05.600 But a lot of Canadians rallied to it.

00:33:07.840 And a lot of Canadians rallying to their leader, their prime minister, because of what is going

00:33:14.900 on with Donald Trump and the Americans.

00:33:16.980 As opposition leader, how does Polyev respond?

00:33:21.580 Yeah, it's a great question.

00:33:22.960 And, you know, I didn't agree with everything in the Davos speech, but I did agree with the

00:33:28.120 general overtones that the world has changed and that Canada needs to reflect that change.

00:33:33.800 Now, what is unsaid in that speech, obviously, is like, well, who was in power for the last

00:33:38.460 10 years who didn't do the heavy lifting to lay the groundwork in case of a threat?

00:33:43.420 Well, it was the Liberal Party.

00:33:44.520 It was the same group of people that are around Mr. Carney that were around Mr. Trudeau at the

00:33:48.820 same time.

00:33:49.340 So I do think, though, that Canadians as a whole are generally opposed to Donald Trump,

00:33:56.440 Donald Trump's agenda.

00:33:58.580 And trying to be evasive or trying to skirt around that issue is just it's a non-winner.

00:34:07.460 And I think Mr. Polyev recently has put out some very clear statements about where he disagrees

00:34:12.820 with the president and the president's agenda.

00:34:15.360 And I think we need to do that without being ramping up the rhetoric that that is that

00:34:22.740 is over the top or not founded in reality.

00:34:25.920 Thanks so much, Gary.

00:34:27.060 Great to be with you.

00:34:30.440 Jamil Javani is one of the new crop of MPs bringing a different energy to the Conservative

00:34:35.080 Party.

00:34:35.600 He's made news recently with his announced plan to head to Washington and see his law school

00:34:40.460 buddy and close friend J.D. Vance, the current American vice president.

00:34:44.060 We talked about that, about his campaign to restore the North, the struggles facing young

00:34:48.600 men in Canada, and more.

00:34:50.460 OK, almost 90 percent.

00:34:51.980 How does it feel?

00:34:53.100 I'm glad he hit the mark.

00:34:54.860 And now we can, you know, focus on winning the next election.

00:34:57.640 That's what I'm looking forward to.

00:34:59.100 I was talking with one person who said, you know, I expected him to get 81, 82, listen

00:35:05.780 to the speech, said, didn't move me because I've heard it so much.

00:35:08.420 But then they're in line voting and listening to everyone around them and felt like the

00:35:13.740 speech probably pushed him up to that level.

00:35:16.120 What was your thought on the speech?

00:35:18.240 I think the speech reminded people of how much Pierre has modernized our party and brought

00:35:23.380 us to a point where we are talking about people and experiences we didn't talk about

00:35:27.680 very often before.

00:35:28.960 Working class Canadians, young people. 0.98

00:35:30.800 I mean, you saw on that stage he was surrounded by Zoomers. 1.00

00:35:33.320 And I think it's just a reminder of how much we've changed in a positive way, how much

00:35:37.680 we've grown our coalition.

00:35:39.060 And it affirmed that Pierre's brought us to a good point.

00:35:41.360 And we've just got to keep fighting instead of turning back.

00:35:44.040 So you're looking forward now instead of backward at the last election, potentially spring election,

00:35:51.880 if not a fall.

00:35:53.660 Are you ready personally?

00:35:55.140 Is the party ready?

00:35:56.480 Yeah, I don't want an election anytime soon.

00:35:59.560 The reason being that I think Canadians are tired.

00:36:02.860 I don't think Canadians want an election right now.

00:36:05.240 But wouldn't a lot of your supporters want you to bring down the government?

00:36:08.700 Because that's what I always hear.

00:36:10.100 Why won't the Conservatives defeat the government?

00:36:11.980 A lot of people don't understand how the system works and that you'd need the other parties.

00:36:16.020 But I'm sure you hear from folks, take down the Kearney government.

00:36:19.960 We need rid of them now.

00:36:21.040 Why wouldn't you want to do that?

00:36:22.440 Well, the why we bring them down is what matters.

00:36:24.520 So if we're presented with a real issue that is a fork in the road for our country and we

00:36:29.220 bring them down for that reason, I'd be proud of that.

00:36:31.480 I don't want to be out there, you know, bringing them down just for the sake of bringing them

00:36:35.900 down.

00:36:36.660 I believe most Canadians want to see results.

00:36:40.020 And we've got to, you know, we've got to get to a point where we've got a plan for the

00:36:43.960 country.

00:36:45.240 And, you know, we've got a lot to deal with in the House.

00:36:48.140 We haven't been to work very much in Parliament in a long time.

00:36:51.240 And I'd like to see us get to work and from there figure out when a good election time

00:36:55.860 is.

00:36:56.120 I know that you've talked about going down to Washington.

00:36:59.800 You've offered the Prime Minister help, you know, go and see your your longtime friend,

00:37:05.000 J.D. Vance, the vice president.

00:37:07.300 When I asked Pierre about that in December, I said, are you OK with this?

00:37:11.200 Because we hadn't heard from him.

00:37:12.580 There were questions of, you know, would the leader of the Conservative Party be good with

00:37:16.660 it?

00:37:16.780 And he said, I'm absolutely fine if it helps the country.

00:37:19.780 But the Kearney government hasn't taken you up on it.

00:37:21.900 So are you just going to go down?

00:37:23.520 I am going to go down.

00:37:24.440 I am going to affirm that I stand in solidarity with our government.

00:37:30.800 I want us to have a strong position with the United States.

00:37:34.220 I think Kuzma is very important for our country.

00:37:36.760 And I want Mark Carney to be successful in negotiating a good trade deal for Canada.

00:37:41.160 I hope he takes me up on my offer for us to work together because I don't think this

00:37:44.600 is a partisan issue.

00:37:45.840 But if he wants to make it a partisan issue, that's up to him.

00:37:48.000 I hope he doesn't view it that way.

00:37:49.360 And that's my message to Mark Carney.

00:37:50.760 And that will be my message to the United States and the people I talk to down in Washington.

00:37:54.460 This is a federal to federal issue.

00:37:56.080 I want our federal government to be talking to their federal government.

00:37:58.880 I don't want the actions of provincial politicians to be derailing things like what happened in

00:38:02.800 the fall.

00:38:04.060 In terms of Kuzma, you know, you represent a rioting in the Durham region. 1.00

00:38:09.440 I'm sure that you've got constituents who are affected by the layoff at GM.

00:38:14.420 1,200 jobs gone.

00:38:15.800 If this isn't fixed, there'll be more jobs gone at that plan.

00:38:18.700 Yeah, and that's what I want more people who are in politics or observing politics to

00:38:23.580 understand.

00:38:24.460 Real jobs are on the line here.

00:38:27.220 People's lives are getting worse as the Kuzma deal takes longer and longer to be renegotiated. 0.80

00:38:33.420 And we can't play games with people's lives.

00:38:35.480 Like, that's what's happening right now, it feels like.

00:38:37.100 People want to posture around, you know, are you anti-American enough?

00:38:41.320 Are you too anti-American?

00:38:42.360 You know, for me, it's just like, let's get a deal done.

00:38:44.200 It's what our country needs and it's time to get to work.

00:38:46.240 Well, that's what I hear too often is, we shouldn't have a deal with him.

00:38:50.980 Who needs to deal with him?

00:38:52.500 And in my view, you can only have that if you are very comfortable, very well off.

00:38:56.960 Maybe if you're retired and don't have to worry about work.

00:38:59.380 But working Canadians need jobs that will often rely on the United States.

00:39:04.200 Yeah, there's political fantasy out there that seems to think that China and a deal with

00:39:09.320 China is going to help make up the gap here.

00:39:11.580 It's not.

00:39:12.140 We need to work with the United States, not just for economic reasons, but also for security

00:39:16.100 reasons.

00:39:17.020 This is a reality of our geographic location.

00:39:19.560 It's a reality of our economy.

00:39:21.040 And if we want to put our own people first, we need to work with the Americans.

00:39:24.360 On another matter, you're doing a couple of things.

00:39:27.560 You're doing Restore the North and you and Shuf Majumdar have been talking about liberal

00:39:33.180 racism.

00:39:34.120 Yes.

00:39:34.820 Fill me in on those two efforts or are they part of the same and why you're taking those

00:39:40.720 messages across the country?

00:39:42.260 Because I find them both fascinating.

00:39:43.900 Well, Restore the North is about bringing the voices of young Canadians to the forefront of

00:39:47.660 the issues that they are caring about, jobs, mental health, immigration.

00:39:51.080 These are priorities we hear on campuses all around the country.

00:39:56.120 Stopping liberal racism, a lot of young people see that as a barrier to them getting a fair

00:40:00.660 chance in the economy because it has now become normal for the federal government and through

00:40:05.200 the industries it regulates to hire people and fire people on the basis of their skin

00:40:09.840 color.

00:40:10.460 I grew up, I'm 38, not that old, but I grew up at a time where that was considered racism

00:40:14.320 and I believe it's still racism and I don't really care what the liberals have to say about

00:40:17.800 it.

00:40:17.960 You can't repackage old bigotry and old biases and tell me that that's progress.

00:40:23.320 So when we say stop liberal racism, it's about making sure we treat everybody fairly and equally

00:40:26.840 on the basis of being a Canadian citizen.

00:40:29.260 And I know that you're also out there talking about young men and I've heard some commentary

00:40:35.460 that this is some weird far right interest or cult thing.

00:40:42.320 Down in the States, the biggest advocate of this is a guy named Scott Galloway, who is

00:40:46.920 a progressive Democrat.

00:40:48.680 This is an issue across North America.

00:40:50.580 I'm not sure if it applies to other Western countries as well, but across North America,

00:40:55.300 young men are, what was the name of the old movie, Failure to Launch?

00:40:59.720 There's a lot of young men failing to launch.

00:41:02.260 Why does that issue drive you?

00:41:05.600 Well, I'm of that demographic.

00:41:09.060 You're still fairly young.

00:41:11.320 Recently was.

00:41:11.840 Yeah.

00:41:12.060 I'm a recent graduate of young male status.

00:41:15.540 But no, I mean, look, I've written a book about this.

00:41:18.560 This has been an interest of mine for over a decade now.

00:41:21.280 I was going to say about 10 years.

00:41:22.420 Yeah, I've been seeing these issues, whether it's addiction, homelessness, unemployment,

00:41:28.140 high school dropout rates, disproportionately affecting young men.

00:41:31.380 And the reality is our federal government has a department called Women and Gender Equality

00:41:35.240 that does not view the issues facing young men as part of gender equality.

00:41:39.300 So we don't have a government that is looking at this.

00:41:41.800 And as an MP, I want to bring the silenced and marginalized people to the forefront and make

00:41:47.400 sure they're being heard by the government.

00:41:49.020 And that's what this is about for me, making sure young men are not forgotten.

00:41:51.920 All right.

00:41:52.640 Thanks so much.

00:41:53.320 Thank you.

00:41:54.200 I'll say this about the conservative convention.

00:41:56.280 It should put to rest the idea of a divided party, the idea that there is some kind of

00:42:00.960 revolt against Polyev, his leadership or his style.

00:42:04.440 The man received almost 90 percent support with 95 percent of delegates voting.

00:42:09.280 This is Pierre Polyev's party.

00:42:11.200 What happens next?

00:42:12.440 Perhaps a spring election, maybe one in the fall.

00:42:15.040 If either one of those happen, remember what I say about politics.

00:42:18.280 Voters are fickle.

00:42:19.060 Polls can change and campaigns matter.

00:42:22.380 Full Comment is a post-media podcast.

00:42:24.520 My name is Brian Lilly, your host.

00:42:26.180 This episode was produced by Andre Pru.

00:42:28.120 Theme music by Bryce Hall.

00:42:29.820 Kevin Libin is the executive producer.

00:42:32.180 Please remember to hit subscribe wherever you listen to your podcast.

00:42:35.700 Leave a comment.

00:42:36.560 Share this on social media and let your friends know about us.

00:42:39.260 Thanks for listening.

00:42:40.060 Until next time, I'm Brian Lilly.

00:42:41.620 Here's that clip from Canada did what?

00:42:49.480 I promised you.

00:42:53.580 Imagine yourself inside a Boeing 767 operated by Air Canada.

00:42:58.400 It's July 1983.

00:43:01.000 You're traveling between Montreal and Edmonton.

00:43:04.280 And a couple hours into the flight, the comforting roar of its two jet engines suddenly stop and most of the power cuts out.

00:43:11.640 Good evening.

00:43:12.500 It was a metric mix-up.

00:43:14.680 Air Canada has confirmed.

00:43:15.980 The plane that landed at Gimli, Manitoba last Saturday ran out of gas because of an error in metric conversion.

00:43:22.860 I regret to inform you that you're inside the Gimli Glider, one of history's only incidents of a civilian airliner running out of gas in the middle of the sky.

00:43:33.900 And this happened because someone didn't know how to properly measure out enough jet fuel.

00:43:39.540 Now, I mention the Gimli Glider only to note that systems of measure are not just numbers on a page.

00:43:45.460 They're cultural objects.

00:43:46.800 They might not be on par with language or religion, but they're ways of understanding the world around us.

00:43:53.800 And if you screw with them, even with the best of intentions, you might get the occasional airliner falling out of the sky.

00:44:02.080 Fortunately, in this instance, it miraculously worked out fine.

00:44:05.880 The pilots in control of this particular Air Canada flight just happened to be two of the only people on Earth perfectly suited to safely bring down a crippled full-size airliner

00:44:16.740 in the middle of Manitoba.

00:44:19.160 One of them was an experienced glider pilot.

00:44:21.760 The other one was a former Royal Canadian Air Force pilot who just happened to have served at a Manitoba airbase that was now directly underneath them.

00:44:32.620 If you want to hear the rest of the story, make sure you subscribe to Canada Did What?

00:44:37.980 Everywhere you get your podcasts.

Full Comment - February 02, 2026

The Conservatives’ plan to outflank Carney in a snap election

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