Full Comment - April 27, 2025


The Conservatives’ post-election power struggle has begun

Topics
hockey ads battle arrogance strategic voting and NDP/Liberal bloc strategy
Hosted by
Brian Lilley Anthony Furey Tristin Hopper
Mentioned
Pierre Trudeau Stephen Harper Mark Carney Pierre Poilievre Stuart Thompson Fidel Castro Donald Trump Trevor Toome Doug Ford Jagmeet Singh Justin Trudeau Tim Houston Yves-Francois Blanchet Daryl Bricker Mark Mulroney Polly Ev Caroline Mulroney Trevor Fortuna Tasha Carradine Mona Forche and 32 more
Say hello to the new Liberal-NDP alliance Poilievre built a new Conservative party. He’ll need to build another

Episode Stats


Length

46 minutes

Words per minute

184.98

Word count

8,511

Sentence count

652

Harmful content

Misogyny

4

sentences flagged

Toxicity

8

sentences flagged

Hate speech

7

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

With less than 24 hours to go until Election Day, the race is all but over. Stuart Thompson, Tasha Keridan, and Brian Leech break down the latest polls and give their predictions for who's going to win the election.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
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00:00:18.020 So we're in the final stretch and shortly hours after this podcast is released, we will
00:00:23.260 know the results of election 2025.
00:00:25.800 Hello, I'm Brian Lilly.
00:00:26.760 Welcome to the Full Comment Podcast.
00:00:28.140 Joining me once again to break down the election are the people behind the Political Hack newsletter.
00:00:34.120 If you haven't hit subscribe already, please do.
00:00:37.260 Stuart Thompson is the Ottawa Bureau Chief for National Post.
00:00:41.300 Tasha Keridan is a columnist, commentator for the Same Set newspaper.
00:00:45.340 And of course, I'm Brian Lilly, columnist at Toronto Sun.
00:00:48.140 So guys, any excitement left at the end of this as we see polls narrow, momentums with
00:00:56.420 the Conservatives, but is it too little too late?
00:00:59.480 I think everyone just wants this to be done.
00:01:02.100 It's been a crazy short PAC campaign.
00:01:05.280 Honestly, I'm watching the leaders, you know, run around to the last place they go when
00:01:11.440 we're trying to figure out, okay, does that mean this riding's in trouble?
00:01:14.180 Polyev was in Quebec City.
00:01:15.880 Singh was in BC.
00:01:17.260 Kearney, I believe, is in Ontario.
00:01:19.720 It's, you know, is this desire to save the furniture or is it winning ridings?
00:01:26.240 Nobody knows.
00:01:26.960 Everyone's analyzing it to pieces.
00:01:28.360 But I think that there has been a tightening of the polls, a slight one.
00:01:32.940 So that adds a bit of piquant to the whole thing is like, could there be a surprise?
00:01:38.280 Though I don't think there will be, I don't think that we'll see a surprise in who forms
00:01:42.960 government, but the size of the government, I don't think is a given for me.
00:01:46.960 Stuart, your thoughts?
00:01:48.820 Yeah, I think the big number to look at right now is probably the Ontario polls and the
00:01:53.960 Conservatives are still down there.
00:01:55.360 They're still down there in a way that makes it really hard for them to form government.
00:01:59.680 And I think at this point, unless those polls are wrong, it's going to be really tough for
00:02:04.880 Pierre Polyev to form government.
00:02:06.520 And now it's about stopping Kearney from getting a majority.
00:02:09.820 Well, the latest numbers that we released from Post Media from Leger, our polling firm,
00:02:15.260 over the weekend, just imagine this.
00:02:18.980 Nationally, it's 43% for the Liberals, 39% for the Conservatives.
00:02:23.820 Normally, 39% gets you a majority government.
00:02:26.580 That's what Stephen Harper had to get his majority in 2011.
00:02:30.840 Believe it or not, you would not know this by much of the media coverage, but Justin Trudeau's
00:02:35.720 majority got slightly less than that in 2015.
00:02:38.860 He's still got a majority government.
00:02:41.080 And nationally, the Conservatives at 39%.
00:02:43.820 And some people will say, yeah, but they're tanking in Ontario.
00:02:48.080 The Leger numbers, 40% for the Conservatives in Ontario.
00:02:52.380 But the problem is that the Liberals are at 48% and the NDP is at 8%.
00:02:59.820 That collapse of the NDP or the collapse of the Bloc Quebecois down to 25% in Quebec, incredibly
00:03:09.360 difficult to analyze, to foresee, to be able to counter against.
00:03:15.700 Normally, you get 40%.
00:03:17.120 Whether you're Jean Chrétien or Stephen Harper or Justin Trudeau, you're getting a majority.
00:03:22.660 Well, that's how Harper got one in 2011.
00:03:25.880 And that wasn't, I will only say that was normal because you had Jack Layton heading
00:03:28.920 the NDP.
00:03:29.500 They swept Quebec, right?
00:03:30.980 That has never happened since and will never happen again, quite frankly.
00:03:34.900 So that was for the Conservatives.
00:03:37.200 That's why the Conservatives with that percentage got a majority.
00:03:40.740 The Liberals can get a majority with that percentage usually because their vote's more efficient.
00:03:45.360 But the NDP is the factor here.
00:03:47.800 Their vote has bled mostly to the Liberals.
00:03:49.540 And the result is you don't have these splits in the GTA in particular that got Harper that
00:03:53.760 majority for the Conservatives.
00:03:55.320 So the Conservatives, I agree, they would need a much higher percentage because their vote
00:03:58.700 is less efficient.
00:04:00.260 When I'm looking at how it breaks down, Stuart, you know, we've talked a lot about this
00:04:04.680 boomer versus younger voter.
00:04:08.800 They ask things like, are you, do you have high school education, college education, university
00:04:15.000 education?
00:04:15.800 What's your education level?
00:04:16.840 University education educated are more likely to vote for the Liberals than the Conservatives.
00:04:23.500 But what's really interesting is labor force versus non-labor force and people that are
00:04:30.300 not in the labor force, about six points more likely to vote for the Liberals.
00:04:35.680 So we're talking retirees.
00:04:37.100 And then once you get into over 125,000 a year, so those making between 125 and 149 a year
00:04:47.640 are voting for the Liberals 47% to 35% for the Conservatives.
00:04:52.780 And over 150K a year are voting 52% for the Liberals, 36% for the Conservatives.
00:05:01.800 I mean, what have we all been hearing our entire lives?
00:05:06.400 The Conservatives only care about the rich, they're out there for the wealthy, Monopoly
00:05:10.060 man, Monocle, Top Hat, all of that.
00:05:12.540 No, those guys are all voting for the Liberals.
00:05:15.300 Once again, it's not the first time, won't be the last.
00:05:17.780 Yeah, this is the Peer Polyev coalition is about people who the Canadian bargain isn't
00:05:24.280 quite working out the way it was supposed to work out.
00:05:27.340 And I always we knew that for a couple of years now that those people who wanted to buy
00:05:31.680 a house, they were told when you're 35, you should have a full time job and you can buy
00:05:35.660 a house.
00:05:36.240 And that's not how it worked out for them.
00:05:39.320 People who I think thought health care should work a lot better.
00:05:42.340 And they're saying, well, the government has taken in so many temporary immigrants that
00:05:46.520 these things aren't working either.
00:05:48.380 Those are the people that were saying Peer Polyev might be the guy to change that.
00:05:52.560 And then this very interesting thing happened with Trump where all these people who thought,
00:05:57.080 you know, the status quo works OK for me.
00:06:01.380 I'm generally doing OK.
00:06:03.680 It was then threatened by Trump.
00:06:05.640 And now the status quo people are full of fear and motivation to vote.
00:06:09.600 And I think that is kind of the story of this election is you had these two factions and
00:06:15.600 then Trump just magnified one of them.
00:06:19.160 And that was Carney's ticket to probably win on this evening on Monday night.
00:06:24.620 All right.
00:06:25.320 The other day I was filling in on News Talk 1010 here in Toronto and was able to call up
00:06:34.480 my old friend Daryl Bricker.
00:06:35.620 He's the CEO of Global Public Affairs at Ipsos, biggest polling firm in the world.
00:06:40.180 Daryl is, you know, widely respected within the industry.
00:06:43.840 And I said, are you guys in your industry, are you worried about a surprise with the polls
00:06:50.060 tightening and the conservatives having some momentum going into the last week?
00:06:54.260 Because they can only poll up to a certain point and then they have to stop.
00:06:58.760 And he told me a couple of things.
00:07:00.860 So I'll tell you, I'll summarize one thing that he said and then we'll play the clip of
00:07:04.980 the other thing that he said.
00:07:07.400 The one thing that he said is that we're all talking to these people and on a good day,
00:07:16.060 30% of them won't show up.
00:07:17.600 You know, there's some projections that we'll have 70% voter turnout, which would be the
00:07:21.720 highest in years.
00:07:23.180 So he said, at best, 30% don't show up or could be more.
00:07:28.660 He said, if the people that say they're voting a certain way don't show up to one party or
00:07:35.300 the other, that messes with our projections.
00:07:38.020 But then, and this is the clip we're going to play, he said that they, far more people
00:07:48.720 now make up their minds in the last 72 hours.
00:07:51.360 Here he is.
00:07:51.860 And one of the things that we know, so in case anybody's wondering when elections get
00:07:55.160 decided, increasingly it's in the last 72 hours.
00:07:58.540 And the reason for that is because partisan attachment isn't what it used to be.
00:08:02.720 But old election campaigns used to be about identifying your vote rate at the start because
00:08:09.220 people really didn't change their mind very much and just reminding them that they had
00:08:12.780 to show up and do what they always wanted to do, which was vote for your party when election
00:08:17.640 day came around.
00:08:18.740 These days, it's not like that.
00:08:20.120 People are making up their minds very late in the election campaign.
00:08:23.400 And, you know, in most of our polls, and we do this globally, in the range of, you
00:08:27.880 know, 5% to 10% actually make up their mind the day they're voting or actually in the
00:08:32.220 booth.
00:08:33.520 So there's still a lot to play for.
00:08:35.640 And the momentum at the moment is on the conservative side.
00:08:38.860 So that 5% to 10% that make up their mind on voting day, and I don't know who these people
00:08:43.140 are.
00:08:43.480 I mean, who wakes up on voting day and says, yes, I've been listening for all this time
00:08:47.020 and I'm finally going to make up my mind.
00:08:52.320 How those people break determines whether it's a liberal majority, a huge liberal majority,
00:09:00.060 a liberal minority, or the best I think the conservatives can hope for now is if it all
00:09:05.240 breaks their way, and that's a big if, then we're looking at a conservative minority.
00:09:10.440 But to your point, Stuart, and we'll add into, you know, what Daryl just said to what you
00:09:14.880 said, Polly has voting coalition.
00:09:17.440 It's a lot of people that didn't vote before and probably aren't participating in polls
00:09:21.380 and panels, which are to a degree self-selecting.
00:09:24.240 So we could have a surprise, one way or the other.
00:09:28.020 It could, I think the most likely outcome right now as things tighten is a liberal minority,
00:09:33.660 but we could see a big liberal majority or the conservatives get the most seats.
00:09:38.260 Would they form government?
00:09:39.260 That's up in the air.
00:09:40.380 Thoughts?
00:09:41.400 Yes, I think that you're absolutely right.
00:09:43.180 I mean, I think that there is always the potential for a bit of a surprise.
00:09:47.100 And those voters, I guess the question I would have is, those voters, you said, oh, that
00:09:51.280 they've been following things and then at the last minute they make up their minds like,
00:09:54.220 okay, now I'm going to decide.
00:09:55.400 I think some of those voters are voters who, people who haven't been necessarily paying
00:09:58.820 attention, but maybe think that they want to vote, it's their civic duty to vote.
00:10:02.100 And they go in that voting booth and they're like, okay, pick one, right?
00:10:06.820 Pick one.
00:10:07.200 I don't know how informed in quotes or news following these people are.
00:10:13.600 So I think that to me, what the tradition's been of who goes and shows up is old people, 0.97
00:10:20.060 right?
00:10:20.640 Older Canadians go to the polls.
00:10:22.300 That's what people say.
00:10:23.080 Though for Trudeau in 2015, it wasn't true.
00:10:25.360 Younger people made the difference for him.
00:10:27.240 They made the difference for Obama in the US because they went out to the polls more.
00:10:30.320 So it really, I think it's a question of demographic mobilization.
00:10:35.940 This is a very polarized election along class lines, economic lines, generational lines.
00:10:41.700 So, you know, numerically, there are more younger voters at this point than there are boomers,
00:10:46.840 right?
00:10:47.780 It tilted a few years ago.
00:10:49.200 So in theory, in theory, you know, they could have the upper hand if they all showed up and
00:10:54.720 voted conservative.
00:10:55.580 But because, again, it goes back to the efficiency of the vote, I don't think it's enough for
00:10:59.160 a majority conservative government.
00:11:00.600 Minority would be the ceiling.
00:11:02.180 But, you know, that could be the surprise if those people.
00:11:06.320 Another week of momentum like we've been seeing for the conservatives, and maybe they could be
00:11:11.500 talking about a majority.
00:11:13.060 You know, more of these Viagra ads at the golf course.
00:11:15.700 I don't know, but your thoughts on those.
00:11:19.040 Terrible. No offense.
00:11:19.500 Those are terrible.
00:11:20.540 But they're not aimed at you.
00:11:21.820 Not for you.
00:11:22.420 No, they're aimed at the men who golf.
00:11:24.660 But I just don't.
00:11:26.720 People have mocked them.
00:11:28.580 Yeah, lots of people have mocked them.
00:11:30.220 But lots of people mock all kinds of ads that aren't aimed at them and end up working.
00:11:35.180 So, look, I'm not the demographic it's aimed at.
00:11:37.720 Are they aimed at you?
00:11:39.180 No.
00:11:39.880 One, I don't golf.
00:11:41.620 Two, I'm not an older man.
00:11:43.920 I know you describe yourself as an older woman, Tasha, but I don't describe myself as an older
00:11:48.280 man.
00:11:50.640 I only bring that up because you have brought it up before.
00:11:53.280 Yes.
00:11:54.020 But, I mean, you know, interesting that they came out with those ads at the end.
00:11:58.520 I was watching the Leafs Senators game the other night, and, of course, the Battle of
00:12:04.740 Ontario is happening in the NHL, but really this election is the Battle of Ontario.
00:12:09.860 The two parties are incredibly competitive in B.C.
00:12:14.540 Conservatives, you know, dominating the prairies.
00:12:17.780 The Liberals dominating Atlantic Canada.
00:12:20.360 You know, dominating to a degree in Quebec.
00:12:25.020 We'll see how the splits go on that, and, you know, if the bloc has this resurgence.
00:12:30.020 It comes down to Ontario.
00:12:32.380 And so, in the most important hockey game in Ontario, you're seeing a battle of ads of
00:12:36.920 Carney, not versus Paulyev, but versus Harper.
00:12:40.960 And to me, those Harper ads are aimed at the same guys as that Golf Viagra ad.
00:12:46.640 And it's to try and get the older male demographic back to them.
00:12:52.480 Is that a strategy that can work?
00:12:56.120 I mean, I've heard the ad campaigns of both parties described as horrible this election.
00:13:02.720 I don't know about your thoughts, Stuart, but do these Harper ads of him saying, hey,
00:13:06.840 I'm the guy who did it, and trust me, does that change anything?
00:13:12.300 I would say that is not that it's going to work, but I think it is their best hope.
00:13:16.280 Because the people they're trying to reach are older men who probably voted for Harper
00:13:21.260 two, maybe three times, and were definitely there in 2011.
00:13:25.440 And these are the guys.
00:13:28.140 I talked to a conservative who said, you know the trouble, you know what we always hear is
00:13:33.060 he never had a real job about Paulyev.
00:13:35.880 That line of attack actually does stick, particularly with those older men who see him as kind of
00:13:41.680 a young upstart guy who kind of rubs them the wrong way.
00:13:45.600 And I think Harper is supposed to be the antidote to that. 0.98
00:13:48.420 Harper is the guy who's been around.
00:13:50.840 He was Paulyev's boss.
00:13:52.160 And he's here to give him a reference to say, look, this guy worked really hard.
00:13:55.400 I actually like him a little bit more than Carney.
00:13:58.180 And I think that is what they're going for.
00:14:00.660 I don't know if it'll work just because the Trump thing is so all-consuming.
00:14:06.160 And I know that for some, yeah, for those guys, especially those voters, those guys who
00:14:10.960 their RSPs are full of stuff that's market exposed, and they're worried about that right
00:14:15.620 now.
00:14:16.380 So I think that is what they're trying to do.
00:14:19.440 If you're a conservative, though, you have to look at Ontario in particular and say, look,
00:14:24.440 can we exist in this world where our entire electoral hopes hinge on how the NDP does?
00:14:31.100 We a lot of this, I think if you're a conservative, I spoke to people halfway through the campaign
00:14:35.040 who said, in a vacuum, everything went very smoothly.
00:14:38.700 Our events were great.
00:14:40.100 Our message was what we wanted it to be.
00:14:41.860 We didn't have any big gaffes.
00:14:43.660 And it didn't do anything because everything that was taking us down was external.
00:14:48.580 And I think that's, if you're the conservative, is a bad place to be because you don't control
00:14:52.660 your own fate.
00:14:53.520 You need Jagmeet Singh to be good at politics before you get a majority.
00:14:57.580 Tasha, you're wagging your finger at me.
00:14:58.800 So maybe you just want to.
00:15:00.640 Hold on.
00:15:01.560 Let me ask Tasha about the ads.
00:15:03.060 And we'll come back to that NDP thing in a moment because that's a big point.
00:15:06.740 But Tasha, you know, those competing ads in the hockey game aimed at those 55 plus men.
00:15:16.420 Stephen Harper was the one with the energy in them.
00:15:18.780 And then you had Mark Carney, who had all the energy of an undertaker.
00:15:22.460 And, you know, I've heard it described as a resume contest for this demographic that
00:15:31.840 they're both after right now.
00:15:33.280 So why not have someone with a pulse narrate an ad about how great Mark Carney is?
00:15:39.400 I mean, back to the fact that ads for both of them have not been great.
00:15:43.260 Why not have someone narrate, Mark Carney was the man who did this in a world gone mad?
00:15:49.940 But, you know, something like that.
00:15:52.140 Because Carney's a grown up.
00:15:53.860 I actually think the Harper ad is kind of paternalistic.
00:15:56.680 It's like, look, he worked for me.
00:15:58.360 I'm the grown up, but I can give him a reference here, Skippy.
00:16:01.360 Like, honestly, I don't I don't think it's effective because I think it reminds me.
00:16:05.440 But those Carney ads are not effective at all.
00:16:08.120 They put you to sleep.
00:16:09.460 Yeah, but that's the point.
00:16:10.940 That is the point.
00:16:11.880 Actually, Brian, people want to be put to sleep and keep their RSPs.
00:16:14.940 That is actually the point for this demographic.
00:16:16.900 And Carney can't be something he's not.
00:16:18.880 He can't be Mr. Excitement.
00:16:20.200 It would be fake.
00:16:20.860 It would be inauthentic.
00:16:22.220 So you have someone else narrate it.
00:16:24.460 Use some exciting footage.
00:16:26.820 But that's not OK.
00:16:28.320 Again, you're missing the point.
00:16:29.400 The idea is that Carney is the man of a stress, the man of a situation.
00:16:33.700 He's the man of a situation.
00:16:35.260 The man of a situation doesn't need someone to narrate for him.
00:16:38.540 And so I think that that is what they're doing is that's what Carney's been.
00:16:41.580 You know, he's he's been making tons of mistakes in his press conferences.
00:16:44.660 He says things are wrong.
00:16:45.940 You know, he puts his foot in his mouth.
00:16:47.520 He basically lies about how the conversation with Donald Trump went and people give him
00:16:52.640 a pass.
00:16:53.220 Why?
00:16:54.020 Because you know what?
00:16:54.940 The guy is he's a new politician and he's trying and he but he's been around the block.
00:16:59.540 He he worked with Stephen Harper, not for Stephen.
00:17:02.080 OK, this is the this is the difference, right?
00:17:04.620 He worked with Stephen Harper, not for Stephen Harper.
00:17:07.700 Polyev arguably worked for Stephen Harper.
00:17:09.800 And again, I think it goes to the demographic they're trying, which is older men will look
00:17:13.900 at this and go.
00:17:14.660 He's like me.
00:17:15.600 I'm as boring as him.
00:17:16.640 I'm going to vote for him.
00:17:17.980 And they have assets to protect and they don't trust Polyev to do it.
00:17:22.120 And I think that's where these ads are coming at people from.
00:17:25.640 I don't know how effective any ad is at this point, honestly, with like just, you know,
00:17:30.320 hours to go or when these ads ran days to go.
00:17:33.180 But I think that's the theory is he's the crazy adult in the room.
00:17:38.140 So it doesn't need another adult with him.
00:17:39.520 That is, I think, their theme from the beginning.
00:17:41.760 All right.
00:17:42.300 Let's talk about that.
00:17:43.600 NDP is a lifeline.
00:17:44.740 I was talking with some Ontario conservatives and I don't want to get into the whole Doug
00:17:48.640 Ford versus Pierre Polyev thing.
00:17:50.480 But that's kind of died down.
00:17:53.940 I was even at a taping of The Curse of Politics, a live taping the other night.
00:17:57.900 And Corey tonight did not take any shots at Pierre Polyev.
00:18:01.080 I asked Corey how crazy it was going to get before the event and it did not get crazy
00:18:07.960 at all.
00:18:08.480 But I was speaking with, you know, folks who were not on that but were part of the campaign
00:18:13.200 and they just said, look, we had to be really cognizant of making sure that the NDP were
00:18:19.300 not beaten down and, in fact, do some things to keep them around.
00:18:23.220 I get going after Jagmeet maybe a year ago, even six months ago, and we can all say, yes,
00:18:34.120 they were too effective in tying him to Trudeau's coalition.
00:18:38.960 I doubt they could have seen that the Jagmeet Singh voters would go for the guy running Brookfield
00:18:46.180 Asset Management, owner of 43 private hospitals in Australia and New Zealand.
00:18:51.000 That just doesn't seem like a thing for a new Democrat to do.
00:18:54.920 But, I mean, it really is the story of this election.
00:18:58.560 Is the NDP fleeing to a safe harbor?
00:19:02.420 I think that what the conservatives failed to do is two things.
00:19:05.700 One, they bet the farm on Trudeau.
00:19:07.380 They wanted an election with Trudeau there, which is why they were pushing so hard for
00:19:10.680 one in the fall.
00:19:11.820 And Jagmeet Singh has now said, oh, well, you know, I didn't give it to them.
00:19:14.980 People say that was his biggest strategic mistake is not calling an election before Christmas
00:19:19.620 when the NDP would have probably done better because Trudeau would have been there.
00:19:24.140 And he said, well, I did it because I didn't want a conservative majority.
00:19:26.920 I couldn't live with that.
00:19:27.780 So I'm going to torch my own party.
00:19:29.100 Isn't that a firing offense that you would torch your own party over this?
00:19:32.960 Yes, it is.
00:19:33.160 He's gone.
00:19:33.800 Brian, there's no question.
00:19:34.840 He, after this election, Jagmeet Singh's obituary is already being written.
00:19:38.560 But I got to say to you, and I will say this, on the record, in Ontario, people maybe aren't,
00:19:44.260 maybe Corrie tonight's not saying anything, but people are already talking about leadership.
00:19:47.840 I know personally people who have been approached by groups who are organizing without a candidate
00:19:53.480 in mind specifically, but names are floating around saying we got to move on this.
00:19:57.020 Okay, well, give us some names.
00:19:59.360 Give us some names.
00:20:01.260 Some names?
00:20:01.940 I'm not going to out my friends.
00:20:03.760 I'm not.
00:20:04.780 No, I believe them, though.
00:20:06.120 I mean, there's no reason for them to say I've been approached by other people.
00:20:09.620 The names that are floating around are no secret.
00:20:11.220 Like you said, Doug Ford is one of the names that people are thinking of.
00:20:13.580 But there's no, he's not running.
00:20:15.200 This is to be really clear.
00:20:16.420 People who are unhappy and dissatisfied and are trying to look even beyond the election now,
00:20:21.360 which is, to me, that I was shocked by that, too, because I'm thinking, you know, everyone is supposed to be so, so gung-ho on this.
00:20:30.040 So to me, that's another story in this election.
00:20:31.920 So conservative disunity.
00:20:33.900 Never mind the NDP.
00:20:34.860 Conservatives biting themselves.
00:20:36.100 If the Liberals win a majority, Doug Ford is not running to be conservative leader federally because he cannot stomach the idea of being an opposition leader.
00:20:46.540 It would kill him.
00:20:47.480 I am not, like I said, it's not that Doug Ford is running.
00:20:50.860 It's not that he's organizing.
00:20:52.000 But it's a name that people have said, oh, well, why not him?
00:20:54.740 Caroline Mulroney, another name.
00:20:55.920 They said, why not her? 0.94
00:20:57.060 I've even heard Stephen Lecce.
00:20:58.820 No lie.
00:20:59.900 So, you know, these names are floating around.
00:21:02.160 The point is this, that they're floating around and people are putting their noses to the grindstone and doing the campaign work.
00:21:06.700 And they're talking about that.
00:21:07.520 That, to me, speaks volumes also about what this election is, which is the Conservative Party is fractured because people had such high expectations and they're not being met.
00:21:17.480 I don't know if you heard this at Canada Strong and Free, Stuart, but I had Mark Mulroney, Ben Mulroney, Caroline Mulroney all put forward to me.
00:21:24.840 I don't think any of the three of them are interested in running.
00:21:29.160 Ben has told me directly that he has no interest.
00:21:32.580 Caroline doesn't like campaigning. 1.00
00:21:34.260 And Mark, for people that don't know Mark Mulroney, he's a banker at Scotiabank making really good money and going off skiing with his kids.
00:21:45.700 Yeah, his kids are grown now.
00:21:48.100 Maybe later.
00:21:49.080 Maybe later.
00:21:49.520 I don't see it happening now.
00:21:51.040 What about that Tim Houston video, though, Stuart?
00:21:53.660 Yeah.
00:21:54.220 Was that just a raw, raw Nova Scotia video or a, hey, there might be a job opening?
00:22:00.540 I gotta say, it certainly took everyone's interest.
00:22:04.100 But I'm a Nova Scotian and I don't think people realize how different a PC in Nova Scotia is from a Conservative in Alberta or even a Conservative in Ontario.
00:22:16.680 And it is a weird province.
00:22:19.740 It's culturally conservative in all the rural areas, probably more so than anywhere else in Canada, including Alberta.
00:22:24.980 But then it also just has this different kind of progressive conservative vein that Tim Houston is a perfect example of.
00:22:32.800 And actually, Daryl Dexter, the former NDP premier, was a good example of because these guys are all the same in Nova Scotia.
00:22:38.760 Every premier is exactly the same ideologically.
00:22:42.020 So I just don't think that works federally.
00:22:44.640 I certainly thought when I saw that video that maybe Tim Houston wants to give it a try. 0.96
00:22:50.160 But as you said, I think this is maybe worth reiterating that being a federal opposition leader kind of sucks. 0.98
00:22:57.460 If Mark Carney wins a majority, it's going to really suck. 0.97
00:23:01.580 And right now, Doug Ford and Tim Houston are running provinces.
00:23:04.520 And that's really fun.
00:23:05.860 And you get a lot of power when you do that.
00:23:07.320 So I am a little skeptical of premiers when they're bandied about here.
00:23:11.880 But, I mean, the video was interesting and the timing was certainly interesting.
00:23:15.700 Well, if there's a minority, that potentially changes things for maybe someone like a Tim Houston.
00:23:20.920 I don't know about Doug Ford.
00:23:21.780 He is, you know, again, he's the master of his domain.
00:23:25.120 Like, why would he want to go into opposition even for a couple of years unless, you know, he sees that ambitious to do it?
00:23:32.540 But I think that if there's a liberal minority, that changes things in terms of people who might want to take that role on.
00:23:39.240 All right.
00:23:39.440 Let's take a quick break.
00:23:40.380 When we come back, let's talk about the fact that platforms have dropped and question whether they matter at all.
00:23:46.380 More in moments.
00:23:50.180 Did you lock the front door?
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00:23:57.300 No.
00:23:58.140 And you set up credit card transaction alerts, a secure VPN for a private connection, and continuous monitoring for our personal info on the dark web?
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00:24:21.980 It was free with this Tim's Rewards points.
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00:24:42.900 This is Tristan Hopper, the host of Canada Did What?, where we unpack the biggest, weirdest, and wildest political moments in Canadian history you thought you knew, and tell you what really happened.
00:24:57.040 Stick around at the end of the episode to hear a sample of one of our favorite episodes.
00:25:01.040 If you don't want to stick around, make sure you subscribe to Canada Did What?
00:25:05.820 Everywhere you get podcasts.
00:25:07.860 Tasha Stewart, since we last talked, all the major parties have released their platforms.
00:25:12.240 I guess a big question is, does it matter?
00:25:15.260 I've seen some polling that says conservatives look to the party platform when deciding who to vote for.
00:25:21.000 Liberals look to the leader.
00:25:22.720 So maybe these platforms don't matter.
00:25:25.120 I actually hate fully-costed platforms because I think they're a lie from beginning to end.
00:25:30.020 Nobody ever sticks to them.
00:25:32.840 Do they matter?
00:25:34.000 I mean, Carney and Jagmeet Singh both released theirs on Saturday, and then there was all this criticism that Pierre Polly have waited so long to release his, like, what, two days later?
00:25:45.020 Like, they all released them late this time.
00:25:46.840 I'm not sure that platforms matter in the best of elections, and I really don't think they matter in this election, Stuart.
00:25:54.500 Yeah, I totally agree.
00:25:56.720 First of all, I mean, we now know that 7.5 million Canadians voted on the weekend, so they didn't have time to look at the platforms anyways.
00:26:03.660 And there was a huge batch of people who voted on Friday before they came out, and I also think that even if people had been giving weeks to read the platforms, you know, 0.01% of Canadians would have actually looked at the document, and a small percentage would have actually read news stories about it.
00:26:20.060 And I think those Canadians are right, because I agree with you, Brian, that this is all kind of BS, because most of those projections are torqued, and most of the fantasies around growth are just enough to pay for your tax cut.
00:26:34.840 And, you know, these things always tend to work out that way.
00:26:37.700 And also, it's worth noting, Polly Ev has said this as a criticism, but it is true that this is a Justin Trudeau platform that was given to Mark Carney.
00:26:46.620 I think it was Catherine Levesque, who works in your shop, who reported that it was Mona Forche, the MP for Ottawa Vanier, who drove this platform months ago, and then they just did, you know, Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V.
00:27:01.240 Yeah, Mona was bragging about it. 0.86
00:27:02.940 So she said, look, we got this whole platform.
00:27:05.200 We're just going to give it to whoever the winner is.
00:27:06.840 This was on the day of the vote, the liberal leadership vote.
00:27:09.320 And then when it came out, she sent a note to her volunteers saying, hey, we have this thing.
00:27:14.680 I did it.
00:27:15.240 I was part of this platform team.
00:27:17.300 So I think that is worth noting.
00:27:19.420 And it kind of shows you the charade that's being played here, is that this is a document that was ready to go.
00:27:25.240 Mark Carney signed his name to it.
00:27:26.860 And I think probably a Mark Carney budget will be very different.
00:27:31.300 Will it be different?
00:27:31.900 I mean, liberals don't seem bothered by the fact that he's going to blow past every single fiscal anchor that they've ever had, Tasha.
00:27:39.600 I know that you won't be bothered because you're worried about your RSPs and your home.
00:27:44.180 I am bothered.
00:27:44.720 You don't read my column, apparently.
00:27:45.880 I am bothered.
00:27:46.740 I wrote about this.
00:27:47.880 I did read your column, but I'm teasing you.
00:27:50.000 It's fun.
00:27:50.720 No, I am worried.
00:27:52.420 And it's disappointing to see this platform because, you know, a lot of people were thinking, oh, blue liberal, Mark Carney, banker, blah, blah.
00:28:00.740 And, you know, that sort of stereotype that he would be more prudent with the nation's finances.
00:28:04.820 And instead, this is a huge big spending budget that also includes a couple of, you know, sleight of hand measures, which is splitting operating and capital expenses into two buckets.
00:28:16.080 So your accounting looks better on the, you know, let's balance the operational side.
00:28:20.800 But the capital side could just rack itself up.
00:28:23.540 And the result is you're going to increase debt at a rate that's higher than a current ratio from to GDP.
00:28:31.100 And that's going to blow our credit rating.
00:28:32.780 And, you know, economists are weighing in on that already.
00:28:34.540 And so I look at this.
00:28:35.540 I'm like, this is not good.
00:28:36.460 And it's but it's falling at a time when most people will not be paying attention.
00:28:43.660 Had it dropped earlier, the conservatives could have marketed this as a legitimate, you know, legitimate evidence that Carney is Trudeau is Trudeau is Carney on this.
00:28:52.720 They could have really run that for at least a week.
00:28:54.700 They would have run it during the debates.
00:28:55.920 They would have been like, you know, here's the proof you've given it to us.
00:28:58.660 But they can't because it dropped during the Easter weekend and no one paid attention.
00:29:02.680 And then they dropped theirs and everyone paid attention to things they were going to cut.
00:29:06.640 And so they'd be busy defending that or discussing that and being accused of being Trump-like.
00:29:10.540 So at the end of the day, these platforms, like you said, also, you know, what will they mean?
00:29:15.580 There's so many unknowns, in particular, the rate of growth, which I think both of them are overestimating, quite frankly, and that the pace of tariffs, we don't know when they're going to come down.
00:29:24.420 So are they worth the paper they're written on?
00:29:26.940 Probably not, but they indicate, they give an indication of where these two parties would go and the two leaders would go.
00:29:33.400 And Carney is definitely going in the same vein that Trudeau has been going for the last decade.
00:29:38.660 I want to play a clip here of Carney reacting to criticism by economist Trevor Toome of the University of Calgary.
00:29:47.160 Now, I've tussled with Trevor online.
00:29:50.760 I've cited his work at times.
00:29:52.740 He's well regarded.
00:29:53.740 The current liberal government has cited his work many times to justify their plans or their spending.
00:30:01.140 But, you know, he is someone who's been critical of them as well.
00:30:04.200 And so Toome was being critical, saying they're dropping their fiscal anchors.
00:30:09.220 They're going away from the things they said that would guide them.
00:30:13.180 And when Carney was asked about this, I'm going to play the quick bit in French where the reporter says,
00:30:20.620 is Trevor Toome wrong, and those who can understand, like Tasha, will hear him say, yes, I know more than him.
00:30:30.000 This has to be said.
00:30:31.840 And then Tom Perry from CBC, who is one of the nicest guys in the gallery, right up there with Stuart,
00:30:37.480 asks a follow-up, and Carney is dismissive and arrogant yet again.
00:30:44.800 Roll clip.
00:30:45.440 So Trevor Toome is wrong, in your opinion.
00:30:48.480 Yes.
00:30:49.080 I have more experience than he does, and it's important to state that.
00:30:54.160 Tom Perry with CBC.
00:30:56.280 I'd like to follow up on that.
00:30:59.100 If you've got an economist like Trevor Toome saying that your plan is unsustainable,
00:31:04.200 is just that, is there an argument that if Pierre Polyev is trying to bring down spending,
00:31:10.860 bring down the deficit, that his plan is more fiscally responsible than yours?
00:31:14.020 Okay.
00:31:15.280 There's one thing that you can write on a paper.
00:31:17.280 There's another thing that will happen in the economy.
00:31:19.800 Okay?
00:31:19.940 So our plan, to be clear, is focused on investment and growing this economy.
00:31:28.040 All of the spending, all of the investment in years three and four are for growing the economy.
00:31:34.460 All right.
00:31:35.080 So is that a good look for Carney?
00:31:38.260 Like economists can dispute, but if you're going to just give the back of the hand to an academic
00:31:45.120 who works with the government, who's been cited by the government, who is widely respected,
00:31:50.820 and you're just like, I know more than him.
00:31:53.480 Can you imagine what question period it's going to be like if this guy becomes prime minister?
00:31:59.140 Look inside yourself, Rosemary.
00:32:01.560 I'll never forget that.
00:32:02.720 You know, it's the same, but it is.
00:32:04.860 And Carney has to temper that.
00:32:07.380 He has a tendency to arrogance that has come out in some of his interactions with media.
00:32:11.240 In this case, the lack of respect given to Trevor Toome, it is a side of him that is
00:32:18.100 not a good look for any politician.
00:32:20.100 If that was Trudeau's Achilles heel, it was arrogance.
00:32:23.640 And in that respect, also, he does echo that.
00:32:26.700 So he should be more careful.
00:32:29.640 I, you know, at this, again, will that make a difference at this point?
00:32:31.800 I mean, you know, I'm sure Trevor Toome didn't appreciate it, but voters that will wear on
00:32:37.180 voters eventually.
00:32:39.020 And I don't think it's got enough time right now, and the stakes are just people are voting
00:32:43.100 for different issues.
00:32:44.140 But if you have years of that, yes, we know from Trudeau that that, after a while, gets
00:32:48.380 on people's nerves.
00:32:49.260 And look, I've heard the criticism, Stuart, that, well, Polly Eve is dismissive of media.
00:32:56.000 But generally, when Polly Eve has been dismissive of media, it's, you know, it's like that guy
00:33:03.100 in the apple orchard who was just showing up with questions like, uh, well, some say you're
00:33:08.360 just like Donald Trump.
00:33:09.660 And he's like, well, who says that?
00:33:11.460 Well, some say, well, you're taking a page out of Trump's book.
00:33:14.120 What page?
00:33:14.660 Like, he's pushing back against questions that are unfair or loaded.
00:33:20.420 This is just a, here's an economist that says this, how do you react?
00:33:26.100 I know more than him.
00:33:28.520 It's an arrogance and aggressiveness that both he and Polly Eve can have, but that he, in
00:33:34.700 particular, does not enjoy any questioning or criticism.
00:33:39.620 Yeah, and it is worth actually looking at the content of the dispute, which is that Trevor
00:33:43.920 Fortuna was saying the fiscal anchors are gone, which is objectively true in this platform.
00:33:49.160 This is a platform that increases deficits beyond what even Justin Trudeau was going
00:33:53.060 to do.
00:33:53.960 So beyond what the PBO said Justin Trudeau's numbers would lead to.
00:33:57.620 Yeah, and I mean that you need to answer for that.
00:33:59.840 And Carney's response, I think, deserves more scrutiny.
00:34:03.460 And I think actually maybe this, I don't want to chalk this up to like Machiavellian political
00:34:09.620 strategy, but the dispute and the shot at Trevor kind of takes away from this actual discussion
00:34:15.280 about the content of his platform because Carney's response was, well, look at my resume.
00:34:20.580 Can't you tell from my resume that this, that I'm right about this and Trevor Toome is wrong?
00:34:24.520 When we're literally just talking about numbers that are on the page.
00:34:26.960 So I think it is bad, and I have heard from liberals that, you know, partly because Carney
00:34:32.340 has a tendency towards this, but partly because they believe the conservatives have given them
00:34:37.400 a little more permission to do this kind of stuff that they wouldn't dare do before because
00:34:41.640 they felt like it would come back on them harder than it does to Polyev.
00:34:45.440 And I think actually they're getting away with it.
00:34:48.260 Well, yeah, I think the Polyev orchard, I personally find his pushing back against reporters
00:34:55.280 in that context. He wants to be clever. And some people in his electorate appreciate that.
00:35:01.700 I do find it offensive, and I find it lowers the bar. And it gives permission exactly to get away
00:35:06.560 with stuff like Carney when he treats media badly, too. And Trump's the one who started this,
00:35:10.920 and he'll probably have to not start this. But in that respect, they're both, you know,
00:35:15.500 they're both letting the Sanders slip. You shouldn't do that. And if you don't like a question,
00:35:20.180 you don't put on the smarm and push back like he did.
00:35:24.240 You know, I've seen Trudeau Sr. push back at Famous Exchange where Pierre Elliott Trudeau
00:35:28.540 pushed back against, I believe it was Tim Rice, over the October crisis. And he questioned him
00:35:36.980 in a similar way. But it was just, it wasn't, it wasn't so facile. I'll say it was actually
00:35:43.340 intelligent. It was not facile and obnoxious, which I find, I find the Abel Orchard thing
00:35:48.380 personally very obnoxious.
00:35:50.360 Having been on the receiving end of politicians who don't like my questions, I can tell you that
00:35:56.160 Donald Trump did not start this. I was sent by an editor as a young reporter to question
00:36:01.400 Premier Lucien Bouchard with a very stupid question. And he made me feel about an inch tall 0.99
00:36:07.760 and made me shrink away. And I learned don't ask dumb questions. That's what I learned from that. 0.99
00:36:14.960 So I get what you're saying about lowering the bar. But I'll also say this, I don't have a problem
00:36:20.280 with any politician pushing back against dumb, bad, or loaded questions from journalists. 0.96
00:36:25.740 Yeah, but to find dumb question, when you attack, when you say the reporter, like Trump will say, 1.00
00:36:30.440 you know, your outfit is garbage. And I don't, you know, you guys are fake news. 1.00
00:36:34.240 How can you even go there, right?
00:36:35.840 The guy in the Abel Orchard just showing up and say, some people say you're like Trump.
00:36:40.260 That's true. Some people do.
00:36:40.920 What kind of a question is that?
00:36:42.440 No, but that, okay, but he,
00:36:44.240 Why is that a wrong question? People do say that.
00:36:46.220 Well, he quietly said who and how. And the guy couldn't say anything. Like, you've got to show up with
00:36:51.520 your ammo if you're going to ask a question. You've got to be able to back up your question.
00:36:55.740 And so, you know, we'll leave it at that because we've got to keep talking about the election
00:37:00.700 rather than who's worse to journalists at any given moment. As I said, I've been on the receiving
00:37:08.300 end from all kinds. So if we end up with anything but a majority government, somebody needs to find
00:37:14.420 a dance partner. And given the state of the NDP, it looks like if either of the two main parties form
00:37:24.320 a minority, there's only one
00:37:27.300 dance partner. And
00:37:29.200 it's a smooth-talking guy
00:37:31.160 from Quebec named Yves-Francois
00:37:33.180 Blanchet.
00:37:35.680 He'll be sitting pretty.
00:37:37.300 This is his closing argument,
00:37:39.420 isn't it, Tasha? That,
00:37:40.860 hey, vote for me. I'm going to hold all the balance
00:37:43.320 of power.
00:37:43.720 Mais oui.
00:37:45.320 That is what he's saying now. And he said it on Tout le monde en paille, which is the
00:37:48.840 most-watched French sort of political slash culture slash talk show every Sunday night
00:37:55.040 in Quebec. And he said basically, yes, that, you know, it's time to come home.
00:38:01.040 Cranny's got it. He's going to win. Time to come home and vote for the bloc. It's safe. 1.00
00:38:05.000 You know, you won't get a conservative government. You'll get a liberal government. But you need us
00:38:08.880 to keep him honest. And
00:38:10.500 that is his pitch. It's been
00:38:12.680 echoed by Paul Saint-Yves Plamondon,
00:38:15.320 who's the head of the PQ in Quebec
00:38:16.740 also has come out and said, you know,
00:38:18.700 gotta vote bloc. Cranny's a danger 1.00
00:38:20.680 to the unity of the country. He said that
00:38:22.680 this week.
00:38:23.840 Albertans are saying that too, I hear.
00:38:26.340 Yeah, well, this is funny. It's a common cause, right?
00:38:29.040 But this is the
00:38:30.780 card the bloc has to play. It's one of the
00:38:32.760 few they have to play because they will never form government.
00:38:34.740 But if they can be the NDP of the next few years,
00:38:36.800 well, look what the NDP got. A lot of stuff done
00:38:38.740 for them, right? A lot of
00:38:40.820 chantage, as we would say, blackmail.
00:38:43.100 So they want to do the same thing.
00:38:44.720 And that's what they're saying. And
00:38:46.180 you know, we'll see if it works.
00:38:48.680 But what it does, though, it could
00:38:50.880 suppress the vote generally. Because if people think
00:38:52.820 it's done, they may just not go out and vote
00:38:54.720 at all. So they might not go out and vote for the bloc. They'll just stay
00:38:56.760 home, period. Or they might not
00:38:58.760 go out and vote for the liberals. Correct. Well, they
00:39:00.720 just won't go out. Yeah.
00:39:03.240 The NDP is making the same
00:39:04.780 claim as well, Stuart.
00:39:06.800 Is Jagmeet Singh being
00:39:08.500 as effective with this message?
00:39:10.700 I mean, he's almost got as much
00:39:12.500 nationally as the bloc has with just
00:39:14.480 one province in terms of percentage
00:39:16.540 of the popular vote.
00:39:18.380 So I would argue no. But what are your thoughts?
00:39:20.920 Yeah, I think it's rough for Jagmeet
00:39:22.520 out there. And
00:39:23.560 that, I think Tash is exactly right
00:39:26.560 because I heard that argument from an NDPer 0.75
00:39:28.280 the other day, that it's an
00:39:30.220 impossible argument to make. The strategic
00:39:32.380 voting thing where you say,
00:39:34.460 please follow your heart and vote for us
00:39:36.200 because the liberals have this locked up.
00:39:37.900 Then you just deactivate those voters.
00:39:39.980 And I will say it is looking, if it's a minority, it's looking very likely 0.97
00:39:44.140 the bloc holds the balance of power.
00:39:46.540 And if Mark Carney was worried about fiscal anchors at all up until Saturday,
00:39:51.940 then I think that's going to also go out the window because that's just, it's just like the
00:39:55.720 governing with the NDP is the way you do it is by ponying up cash and policies and letting them do pet
00:40:02.300 projects. And I think that is, you know, if that's two years from, if that's the next two years is that
00:40:09.860 kind of stuff on Parliament Hill, then if you think the fiscal situation is bad now, it's going to get worse.
00:40:15.740 But both of you are saying this deactivates those voters.
00:40:20.120 That's the way the liberals are winning right now, is with extra support from the NDP and the bloc.
00:40:25.440 If those voters are deactivated, they're reduced to a minority, or the conservatives have a minority.
00:40:31.760 Yeah.
00:40:32.020 I mean, this is why this election is fascinating. As they say, it's why we play the game.
00:40:36.740 You got to, you know, you can't just say, the Chiefs are going to win on Sunday. You got to play the game.
00:40:42.040 Yeah. I'll just tell you, Brian, you may have heard this from Doug Ford's people, but I heard that
00:40:46.620 their internals were five or six points higher than what it ended up being on election day. And
00:40:52.040 they blame that almost entirely on that effect. People said, ah, they're going to win anyways. So
00:40:56.780 I'll just, I'm going to cook dinner tonight instead of voting. That's a big effect.
00:41:01.100 That and the NDP deciding to put all of their efforts into keeping incumbents,
00:41:07.700 which the federal party is now trying to do as well. They're not trying to,
00:41:11.880 to pick up anybody else. Okay. Last quick point. In the possibility that the conservatives form a
00:41:19.260 minority, they still have the same dance partner. Stephen Harper was successfully able in 2006 to
00:41:25.960 go between the liberals, the NDP and the bloc. If the NDP is reduced to nothing, he's going to have
00:41:32.120 the liberals who will not want to work with them and the bloc who are, you know, not going to want to
00:41:36.560 pass certain things. It's much more difficult, isn't it?
00:41:40.680 A hundred percent. It's going to be a shorter minority government. I think, um, the bloc will,
00:41:44.980 will look to see, they'll, they'll seize the opportunity, um, to make gains because I think
00:41:50.620 they're going to be reduced. Their numbers are going to be reduced as well in this election. Um,
00:41:54.380 you know, they, they were 33 when it closed right now, projections for seats are like 23, 25.
00:41:59.580 And Blanchet has said like, I'd love, you know, 25 is okay, but I love 35. He'd love to get more.
00:42:05.260 So I think for him, it would be a waiting game of opportunity and a shorter window than if you had,
00:42:11.380 um, uh, the, the liberals in there potentially. I don't know. I mean, the liberals are probably more
00:42:16.620 likely to make a deal with, with Blanchet because Blanchet just says he doesn't, you know,
00:42:20.060 didn't like the conservatives. So.
00:42:22.760 Stuart?
00:42:23.440 Yeah, actually I spoke to a conservative in the war room about that and they said that, you know,
00:42:26.800 don't totally rule out the possibility of a pure hung parliament where you can't actually make a
00:42:32.360 deal. And then we go to the polls again in a few months. Um, that's how tough it could be for the
00:42:37.180 conservatives.
00:42:38.420 That's so bad for the country. That is a terrible thing, especially at this juncture when we need
00:42:42.100 to negotiate with the Americans, show strength. It's actually the worst outcome, frankly. 0.94
00:42:47.200 Gonna be a fascinating Monday. Uh, anybody that tells you it's over, um, you know, as I said,
00:42:53.440 this is why we have the elections. It's why we play the game. It's why we count every,
00:42:56.800 single vote. Thanks both of you for joining me throughout the election campaign. We'll probably
00:43:01.380 do this one more time to wrap it all up and we'll see the results on Monday night. Full comment is
00:43:07.360 a post media podcast. My name is Brian Lilly, your host. This episode was produced by Andre
00:43:11.560 Proulx. Theme music by Bryce Hall. Kevin Libin is the executive producer. Make sure that you're
00:43:16.440 hitting that subscribe button, whether you're listening on Apple, on Amazon, Spotify, wherever
00:43:21.420 you get your podcasts. Help us out by leaving us a review and tell your friends about us.
00:43:26.900 Thanks for listening. Until next time, I'm Brian Lilly.
00:43:29.000 Here's that clip from Canada did what? I promised you. 0.67
00:43:40.720 Castro would end up occupying a space in the Trudeau family similar to that of a beloved uncle.
00:43:46.920 They went diving. They smoked cigars together. They gathered sea urchins for beach cookouts.
00:43:52.580 Informal talks at an island hideaway intensified their respect for each other and their mutual
00:43:59.400 enjoyment of skin diving added to the rapport. In addition to a well-publicized 1976 summit meeting,
00:44:06.600 Trudeau took three separate vacations to visit Castro after his time in politics had ended.
00:44:11.620 I can make, you know, just one reference to Pierre Trudeau's sons to show the closeness of the
00:44:22.000 relationship. The nickname that the Trudeau's sons had for Fidel Castro was Papa Fidel. So that gives
00:44:29.240 you an indication of the closeness of the bond that existed between a communist dictator, you know,
00:44:36.820 a thorn in the side of every American administration for the past 50 years and Pierre Trudeau.
00:44:43.380 When Trudeau's youngest son, Michel, died in an avalanche in 1998, Castro called the family in
00:44:49.920 tears to express his condolences. As an eight-year-old, Michel had referred to Fidel Castro
00:44:55.600 as his best friend. When Pierre died, Fidel declared three days of mourning in Cuba and flew to
00:45:02.040 Montreal to act as an honorary pallbearer. Every time Trudeau went down to Cuba, all the people in
00:45:09.560 South Florida, the, you know, the exiles were thinking, why is this Western leader giving comfort
00:45:16.240 to a murderous dictator, you know, who is oppressing their people in Cuba and saying, you know, good
00:45:22.220 things about Fidel Castro. And as I've mentioned, to have him in the pew at Trudeau's funeral in the
00:45:29.020 front row as, as a, as a, as a dignified person when he had been, he'd been such a, a brutal leader
00:45:40.220 says more about Pierre Trudeau than it does about Fidel Castro. Here's where we should probably touch
00:45:45.900 on what Castro had done and what he was continuing to do while going on beach vacations with the
00:45:51.300 Trudeau family. If you want to hear the rest of the story, make sure you subscribe to Canada
00:45:57.800 Did What? Everywhere you get your podcasts.