The Emergencies Act inquiry exposes a broken system
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Summary
The Public Order Emergency Commission continues to hear testimony on Parliament Hill as the hearings explore the Liberal government's invocation of the Emergency Act during the Chakras protest. Many witnesses have already heard from law enforcement, and the picture that is being painted so far is one of inconsistency, lack of communication, and no clear plan. So was this a failure in policing, political gamesmanship, or both? We re going to explore this with Professor Christian Leprette, who is a professor in the Leadership Department at the Political Science and Economics, also at Royal Military College, and an Eisenhower Fellow at the NATO Defence College in Rome.
Transcript
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for what you need. TD, ready for you. Hello, I'm guest host Adrienne Batra. Thank you for joining
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us for the latest edition of Full Comment. The Public Order Emergency Commission continues to
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hear testimony on Parliament Hill as the hearings explore the Liberal government's invocation of the
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Emergency Act during the Chakras protest. Many of the witnesses have already heard from
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law enforcement and the picture that is being painted so far is one of inconsistency, lack of
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communication and no clear plan. So was this a failure in policing, political gamesmanship or both?
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Perhaps it is more complicated than that. We're going to explore this with Professor Christian
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Leprette from Queen's University, who's a professor in the Leadership Department at Political Science
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and Economics, also at Royal Military College and an Eisenhower Fellow at the NATO Defence College in Rome.
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Professor Leprette, it's great to have you with us on Full Comment. I know that you are observing
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the Commission as it is unfolding, but let's go back. Let's go back to all those months ago when we saw on
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our TV screens the convoying descending upon Ottawa. They knew it was coming. There were opportunities to
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plan. There were opportunities to get all law enforcement agencies to communicate with one another
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and how to manage it. But everything that we've heard thus far from the Commission, from the testimony, from
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many law enforcement agencies, from all levels of government was, they didn't know who was in charge. They
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didn't know who was doing what. How have you perceived this thus far?
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I mean, there's a lot of voices at the Commission. And I think one of the things that we're seeing is
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that the government opted to give the Commission a very wide scope rather than focusing just strictly on
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the invocation of the Emergency Measures Act per se. And so I guess that has the benefits that we're
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getting a much broader context. It also means that we're focusing less narrowly on the actual matter
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at stake, which is whether on the provisions of the Emergencies Act, the need to invoke it,
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and what will hopefully come out of this, which is much better clarification on under what conditions
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the Act warrants being invoked. Clearly, we see here a lot of finger pointing and we see very little
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of anybody actually willing to take responsibility. And I think ultimately the responsibility
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doesn't lie with the people in uniform. Yes, probably operation mistakes were made. People should have
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coordinated better. What was missing throughout much of the convoy protest was the political leadership
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and the clear direction as to what measures police need to be taking and making sure that politicians
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provide the resources to be able to have an effective enforcement of a national protest. And the fact that
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we have a protest of a few thousand ensconced people in Ottawa, in the national capital of a G7 country,
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and it takes us three weeks to get a handle on that protest, I think is an indication of just how
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homeopathic and dysfunctional our national security system is. And I think what we see here is that,
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yes, Canadian police are very good at incident response. They're not good at sustainment. So when you
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have these longer campaigns that require significant experience, significant resources, we simply don't
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have the effective capacity to respond and the citizens of Ottawa and in many ways of the country
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suffered as a result. As the commission unfolds and we hear more and more testimony,
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the very law enforcement agencies themselves that it was suggested they were asking for these powers that
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are given in the Emergencies Act, they themselves have said, no, we didn't need it. We've recently heard
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from the commissioner of the RCMP telling the Trudeau government that they hadn't exhausted all the
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powers that the Ontario Act, when that was implemented, that that had given them. So it's going to make it
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very, you know, the commission is going to answer the question is, was the Liberal government justified
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in the invocation of the Act? The very law enforcement agencies that they claim needed the Act to remove the
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convoy to remove the protesters is painting a very different picture. And, and Professor LaPrette, we
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even, we even see from, from the information and the documents being provided, you know, the daily
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CSIS reports, the daily intelligence reports, the consistent theme is that there were no concerns.
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It was not violent, that there, that, that allegation that they were carrying guns was not true.
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And that there's currently no known time of certain demonstrations, but the majority of the events
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have been peaceful. So, at the beginning, we heard from the former, now former Ottawa police chief,
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slowly, that, you know, he had just sort of given up. He'd thrown his hands up in the air.
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And then I think everything negative that happened trickled from thereafter. How do you perceive it?
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Yeah, so the OPS was never postured to police a national protest. I mean, a force of 1200 people
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with 900 officers, basically operational, the, that have to police the city, and at the same time,
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police a well-organized, well-funded, ensconced national protest. There was no path for success for
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the Ottawa police service on this. And that would have required, I think, much earlier coordination.
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We now have a different model in Ontario that's been adopted since the convoy, the hub model in
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terms of public order units. So, there's some learning here. I think the broader question is
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that, you know, who decided that the Emergencies Act was needed? And I mean, we've seen the federal
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government before blame civil servants for decisions that ultimately turns out the government itself
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had made and decided on. And I think this is what we're seeing here, that contrary to what we had
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heard, that this is sort of the advice that was provided, that ultimately these were measures that
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were perhaps not needed. And I think at the beginning of the protest, the federal government
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made a calculated decision that it didn't want to be seen as heavy-handed. It didn't want to be seen
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as replicating the reputation of the current prime minister's father in the October crisis. And then it
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realized that the protest was becoming a political liability. And so, at that point, the federal government
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decided it wanted to show, I think it wanted to show leadership, that would serve as how I would
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interpret it. And invoking the Emergencies Act was a clear signal to show that leadership. Now,
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it did send a message to police, because one of the things that police look for is,
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even though they have operational independence, they'll always look for political signals on these
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types of political protests and events. And the signals that came initially were really not very
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existent. There was no clear direction, I think, on should we clear out the protest, or should we just
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let the protest go on? So, if there's no top cover, police are unlikely to take heavy-handed measures. And so,
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with the Emergencies Act, that was also a signal to police that there is now top cover for police to
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take more aggressive enforcement action against the protest. The protest was a considerable
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inconvenience for many citizens in Ottawa. It was illegal, and there was some lawlessness,
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but as you point out, there was no criminality. And it doesn't appear that, based on the open access,
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open source information that we have, that there was an immediate risk of a January 6th type insurrection.
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And so, somebody essentially made a political call. And I think the fact that,
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you know, if the government felt confidence in the call that it made, I think it would have called
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the Emergencies Act inquiry rather expeditiously, after the operation had ended. The fact that the
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government waited basically until the last conceivable day to even call the inquiry and let the inquiry run,
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I think suggests to me that they're trying to put as much distance between the event themselves and the
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ultimate verdict that is rendered here on this particular point, because it will ultimately be,
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I think, I mean, anytime you invoke legislation, it's a political decision. A political decision was made. We live in a democracy.
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The public ultimately needs to judge that decision. And what we're hearing here before the inquiry
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will hopefully provide the information for the public to make an informed judgment
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as to whether an astute political decision was made or not.
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I want to tie this in to these big, you know, I think it's an important point that the civilian
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side, meaning the politicians aren't able to direct the police.
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There very much is an understanding that there is going to be political direction. There is that
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separation. We all understand that in terms of how they operate and the operational aspect to this.
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One of the things that is so obvious to all Canadians was they saw that the protesters, you know, they
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put the hot tubs up and the bouncy castles. And I mean, that was all, you know, a lot of show there,
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a lot of theater. But when the border was starting to be blocked and we couldn't have goods and services
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traveling across, you know, that's when there were some serious concern. But it was all being cleared
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up prior to the invocation of the act. The act was implemented on February 14th. Just prior to that,
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again, the RCMP commissioner said, hey, we haven't used all of our resources, our powers yet.
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Hang on a moment. So I agree with you. I think that Canadians are going to have to judge and decide
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ultimately whether the Liberal government was justified in their actions. And I still reiterate
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that thus far, it doesn't seem to be that way from the mouths of the law enforcement agencies
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themselves that were on the ground. But this is not necessarily going to be the first time this
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happens in our country. There are going to be issues that arise again. And you've written extensively
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about the makeup of our law enforcement in this country. And it's in one of your books,
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The Public Securities and Federal Polities. You noted that our federal policing, for example,
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is so unique in the world. And the manner by which we fund our land enforcement agencies is so unique in the world.
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How does that play into sort of what we saw unfold during the trucks or convoy?
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Yeah, I think that's an important question, because this is really, I think, what the
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problem is, the public always wants to kind of examine the past, right? Who knew what, where, when,
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who decided what. We're really, whether it's the inquiry here or it's the Mass Casualty Commission in Nova Scotia,
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this really needs to be about the future. What do we need to change? How do we make the system more sustainable?
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And what we saw in Ottawa is really a much broader symptom of, I think, the broader failure to be
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postured in Canada effectively for the 21st century. So here's one example. So I think we live in an era of
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mass protest. As you rightly point out, we're going to have to contend with other types of mass protest.
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They might not hopefully be violent or insurrectionist, but they might be quite ensconced,
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then they might be quite determined. And so if we're having trouble dealing with a few thousand
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protesters in downtown Ottawa over the course of three weeks, that suggests to me that the system
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is simply not postured well for the 21st century. And I think that ultimately comes down to issues
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of the way police in Canada are led. It comes down to, and I think, you know, we have enough evidence
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of leadership challenges across this country. I think there's currently a dozen forces in Ontario
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alone that are looking for police chiefs. So it suggests that the talent that we're looking for
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for the complexity of policing in the 21st century is not being generated, at least not in the quantity
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and the quality that most boards themselves are looking for. Toronto took two years to search
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for a new chief. We know how long it took to appoint the current commissioner.
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To the RCMP. So there's leadership issues. There's broader ways that police are being managed
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that again, I think are not fit for purpose. And then there's the institutional culture issues.
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And ironically, the people who are often the most unhappy with their own police service are the
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very uniform members that are serving in those services. And so if the public is unhappy, if the members
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who are serving are unhappy, if often the senior command is not a particularly functional, cohesive group,
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and if politicians aren't able to get the quality or the quantity of this sort of response that I think
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we might expect in a rule of law, constitutional democracy, then we need to ask ourselves much
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broader questions about why is it that we're, for instance, having simple communication issues and
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intelligence issues in the chain of command among police services that are responding to this protest.
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It's a function of these broader symptoms. And I hope that the, you know, we see this in Alberta,
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that is debating perhaps adopting a provincial police force and having much broader conversations about
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police reform. And I think this is where the critics of policing in the country have it right,
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that I think, I'm not sure that the types of criticisms they have are always directed at the right
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parts of the problem within the system, but I think they have it right, that the system is not ultimately
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serving the expectations and needs that we have. And if you want to sum that up, the Ontario Police
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Services Act and those of all the other provinces, the basic standard for policing is that police services
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need to provide adequate and effective policing. What does that mean? Does policing needs meet the values,
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needs and expectations of the local community? And I think we can look at what happened during the
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Ottawa Convoy. And I think the current inquiry really needs to ask itself the question, did or did not
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the policing and the response that we saw in Ottawa meet the needs, values and expectations of both
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citizens of Ottawa and citizens of Canada? And if it did not, what are the underlying structural issues
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and symptoms that we need to have, that we need to debate and we may need to reform?
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I think that that's such a critical part to the conversation, because in part,
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there may be some answer to that as you pose it, because we have seen the recruitment and
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the retention in various levels of law enforcement has diminished significantly.
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Police officers at the local level, for example, are burnt out.
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They don't feel, because of a certain political climate, particularly in the last few years,
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you saw defund police movements, you saw such adversary actions towards police officers,
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I think that those are very real on the ground issues that every agency is facing.
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I don't think that we want to necessarily unpack all of that, but I think it's part of what you're
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talking about, that structural reality that is happening on the ground with each agency.
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And so there comes to a point when very serious issues are facing our country or our community.
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There doesn't seem to be the appreciation or understanding of each of them communicating
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with each other, each of them taking a leadership role.
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And it ends up in scenarios like this where before a commission and every law enforcement agency is
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saying, I don't know what the other guy was doing.
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So I think there's two fundamental issues at stake here. One is that in a democracy, we need a
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functional police force because the application of the rule of law, that is to say, the premise of
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predictability and the equal application of the rule of law ultimately hinges on the ability to enforce
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the rules that our elected representatives, federally and provincially and locally, enact.
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And so we need both a functionally effective organization and we need an organization that has
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the legitimacy to be able to enforce those rules. And in democracies, we've chosen that that
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legitimacy hinges ultimately on what is known as low policing. So Jean-Paul Bordeaux, the late famous
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Canadian criminologist, distinguishes between high policing. That's what we see in places such as
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Russia, where policing is in the interest of elites versus low policing, which is what community
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policing about, which is, of course, where the acronym COPS ultimately comes from. So democracy
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hinges on making sure that we resolve the credibility issues that are arising and of which the issues that
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are being discussed with regards to the Ottawa convoy are just one more example in a growing list of
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issues in Canada. My other challenge here is, with the way you've framed that question,
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is the application of the rule of law in Canada. Because I'm increasingly concerned about the
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inequitable application of the rule of law, in particular when it comes to protests. Because
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you can see that in some cases, when you get protests, there are politicians that are quite
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sympathetic with the protesters, and then quite critical of police when police try to enforce the rule of
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law. In other cases, when police try to enforce the rule of law, they get pushback from politicians about
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the measures or so forth that they are facing. And so I think when policing is seen to be
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instrumentalized for political, particular ideological views, rather than for the best ability to apply the
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rule of law fairly and effectively, then it is going to call our entire, not just rule of law system into
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disrepute, it is going to call the forces that are meant to apply that rule of law into disrepute.
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And we just saw a week ago, for instance, the apparent interference by the commissioner with regards
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to in the mass casualty. So what the mass casualty commission revealed about gun legislation and
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trying to get a particular narrative out when it came to the to the Portapic mass shooting.
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And so these sort of incidents, I think we see more frequently. And that, to me, is deeply troubling,
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because I think that's ultimately what we mean by operational independence. Yes, there needs to be
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opportunity to critique police actions, police strategy. We saw that police make mistakes, often
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major mistakes of the G7 and G20. But it's usually because the political authorities weren't
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sufficiently involved in the front end in providing appropriate direction. And as much as we're talking
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about the failures of policing in Ottawa, really, this was a failure of governance. Look, the Ottawa Police
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Services Board, that is ultimately the democratic mechanism that is supposed to govern the police,
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melts down during the most serious national security crisis that this country has had in decades.
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So the mechanism that is supposed to ask the hard question, that is supposed to provide
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strategic direction, is unavailable because it is too dysfunctional to actually be able to act.
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Why is it, in part, unable to act? Because provincial policies, like, for instance, the major events
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policy, provincially is hopelessly out of date. So that meant the Ottawa policy is out of date. So that
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meant, so if the doctrine that you would need to respond isn't there. But I think we have a real challenge
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when it comes to the governance and accountability mechanisms in this country that are supposed to
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provide the sort of strategic direction that we need to safeguard the equitable and fair application of the
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rule of law through our law enforcement mechanisms.
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I think that's such an important point because the tone that is set from the political side of
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the aisle is really instructive on how a protest or a, you know, a big issue is managed. And I know that a
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lot of critics about this or talk about, well, look at how those that go and protest on our rail lines,
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uh, they're from a certain particular community that may, the government of the day may feel sympathetic
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to that, that community. So nothing, no action is taken when the obvious actions that should be taken is
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removal, arrests, etc. So that, that inconsistency, I think Canadians see that. And, um, it, it bears itself
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out when we see things like the trucker convoy and those protests that if you are perceived as sympathetic
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to one side of a political argument, shall we say, you're going to be treated differently. And, and I put
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that in the context of sort of what we expect. So, so you brought up the mass casualty commission
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of the incidents that happened in, in Nova Scotia. There are reports, there's studies, there's
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observations. Overlay that with where we are right now. Do you see any recommendations, any, anything
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practical, realistic coming out of that type of commission, moving into this one where actual
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tangible change can happen in the law enforcement piece? Well, I mean, it's, it's unfortunate for the
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the mass casualty commission. I mean, the, the full transcript of the commissioner's conversation
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with the team in Nova Scotia, um, and superintendent, uh, Campbell out there, uh, comes out after the
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commission has effectively finished its work. Uh, so part of my question is, do we actually have full
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disclosure of all the documents and everything that the emergencies act inquiry actually needs in order
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to be able to, um, uh, to arrive at a sensible judgment? Because ultimately this is about domain
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awareness. You kind of, you can only make a judgment based on the information available. Um, and, um,
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there's, I think some concern that there are obviously political interests when you have a unique
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event, such as the emergency act, uh, being invoked of shaping, uh, of shaping the narrative. Um,
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um, so what is it that we can learn? I mean, certainly I think one of the things we can learn
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is we need a legislative posture that's fit for the 21st century. The, um, financial measures that
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the government did enact through the emergencies act that would allow banks to freeze accounts of
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questionable, um, of, of, with, with questionable sort of transactions. Um, other advanced democracies,
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um, already have these, um, already have these as part of routine response of their, um, uh, money
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laundering, terrorist financing and proceeds of crime, uh, legislation. Um, and so it's, I think just
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one example of the extent to which, um, governments in this country are simply not prepared to innovate
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in terms of legislation. That means law enforcement and intelligence often don't have adequate tools
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available to them to deal with the challenges that they have, which means that we need to resort to,
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or politicians feel they need to resort in this case to extraordinary measures. I mean,
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we see protests of tens of thousands of people in May Day, for instance, in France or in Germany,
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uh, France labor protests, some of which sometimes can get, um, uh, can get somewhat violent, uh,
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where police are well prepared to respond to protests much larger than we saw in Ottawa.
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So just imagine if we actually had a much larger protest, uh, in this country, uh, would we actually
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be prepared to engage and, uh, and to deal with that? And I think the, the challenge when we're not
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adequately postured, led, managed within the organizations themselves, and we don't have an adequate
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fit for purpose legislative framework means that it requires more political, uh, direction or it
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affords also more latitude for political direction, which then often leaves police sort of holding the
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bag in terms of having to, um, do their best with inadequate tools and with too much latitude for
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politicians either to provide directions or to leave police hanging by not providing any strategic
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direction. And I think so what's hopefully will come out of the inquiry is that we need a much
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clearer framework, um, for the invocation of when our extraordinary, uh, quasi extra constitutional
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measures, um, uh, justified, um, and to be able to, uh, I think set ourselves up for a path of
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sustainability that ultimately we should be asking questions. We never want to find ourselves in this
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situation where all the shortcomings that, that we identified here to make sure that we're not just
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preparing for the last battle, but we're actually preparing adequately for the mass protests of the
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21st century. Uh, and we can be postured, um, adequately for that. And I mean, everything from,
00:27:27.760
um, the legislative piece to RCMP reform needs to be part of that conversation. One of the
00:27:34.480
the justifications for having the RCMP, this national police force of 17,000 members had always
00:27:39.280
been in a surge capacity in the case, in case of sort of extraordinary events. Well, where was that
00:27:45.600
surge capacity when we needed it in Ottawa? Where was it when municipal forces across the province said,
00:27:51.200
we can't spare any people to send to Ottawa because the protesters are showing up in our own times.
00:27:56.720
Where was it when the OPP, when it effectively became clear that we needed a national incident command
00:28:02.480
center, um, and that, uh, both, uh, local and arguably provincial police were out of their
00:28:08.560
depth? Where were the water cannons that are 15 minute drive from Parliament Hill? Where were the
00:28:13.920
dozens of horses that the Mounties keep, um, within again, a 15 minute drive off Parliament Hill? Where
00:28:20.320
was our national police force when we had national protest? And as this commission draws on,
00:28:26.800
Professor LaPrette, Canadians should have those answers. We should have some sort of conclusion to
00:28:35.680
what sounds, what our expectation is. You know, one of the fundamental roles of government is to keep
00:28:42.080
citizens safe. Uh, that's, that's their job. And so much, uh, has happened in the course of this, uh, last year,
00:28:52.320
the course of the pandemic that has really shifted our, uh, shall we say priorities on things.
00:29:00.000
And such a significant dearth of leadership at the federal level really came to the fore during this
00:29:07.920
entire convoy. And I'm just wondering if you can conclude with, uh, just a final thought on as this
00:29:17.440
wraps up, as the commission finishes its job, do you feel that there is sufficient information, uh,
00:29:26.560
now that, and, and after all these commissions, after all these reports, after all the studies,
00:29:31.760
that's not just going to sit on a shelf and real change can happen, can be implemented.
00:29:38.400
Adrian, you said that one of the jobs of government is to keep people safe. I would say that is job one
00:29:44.240
of government, because if people aren't safe and if the country is not secure, then we are not going
00:29:50.640
to be able to enjoy prosperity. And we are certainly not going to be able to enjoy democracy, the rule
00:29:56.720
of law, the values that we all cherish. And so we all need to ask ourselves very hard questions when
00:30:03.280
citizens feel unsafe, that government is ultimately failing in the fund in providing the most fundamental
00:30:10.960
good that citizens anywhere need to be able to expect of their state. And if you ask immigrants
00:30:16.720
to this country, what is the primary reason that you came to Canada? And what do you really appreciate
00:30:23.040
about Canada? They will tell you, it is the fact that I feel safe and secure in this country. And
00:30:29.120
ultimately, I think we failed to make people feel safe and secure when it came to the Ottawa convoy.
00:30:36.000
That doesn't mean that there were the convoy was was was that there were legal elements,
00:30:41.520
but clearly, you know, legal forms of protest. But clearly, there was a lot of illegality.
00:30:47.520
And it stuns me to this day that nobody had the wherewithal that when 400 trucks are rolling into
00:30:54.400
town to tell them, well, you can't actually pull off the highway and drive downtown. That's going to be a bad
00:31:00.320
idea. Like we made rookie mistakes in this when it when it came to when it came to the protest.
00:31:06.240
And it appears that we also made rookie mistakes in the way that we were spent responded to the protest.
00:31:11.520
Where was at the beginning of that protest, the joint unified picture of Mayor Jim Watson,
00:31:18.240
the Premier Doug Ford and the Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau standing shoulder to shoulder with
00:31:25.840
their senior law enforcement officers behind them and giving a clear message to the protesters that
00:31:31.360
lawlessness will not be tolerated. And I think that's sort of you know, we're trying to push this off on
00:31:37.520
police. And we're trying to say, well, the police sort of failed and sort of their coordination. Yes.
00:31:43.760
But ultimately, I think we need to ask much harder, much broader questions about about the the entire
00:31:52.400
system in which the protest was able to unfold, the inability to contain it, and the inability to
00:31:59.520
provide a sustained response. No surprise that we couldn't provide a sustained response because
00:32:05.520
there was, by police's own admission, no plan B, right? We went in on day one, plan didn't work. We went
00:32:12.400
in on day two, plan didn't work. By day three, we needed a capacity to have a new plan, to have an
00:32:17.520
integrated intelligence function, to have an operational capacity to actually work out this
00:32:22.320
plan, to surge resources. That entire capacity did not exist within the OPS. And it took us the
00:32:29.600
better part of a couple of weeks to actually build it up. And I think that for Canadians should be a real
00:32:34.800
concern about how is it that politicians have so under-resourced our law enforcement and intelligence
00:32:41.520
capabilities, that we're simply not able to respond in expeditious fashion to the most egregious
00:32:47.840
challenge to the rule of law in this country in multiple decades. And to that effect, I think
00:32:53.920
the questions here need to be broader than simply about the invocation of the Emergencies Act. It needs
00:32:58.960
to be, how come we were so hopelessly unprepared? And that's ultimately not so much on police, that is
00:33:05.440
ultimately on the politicians that make the rules, that provide the resources, and that need to give
00:33:11.120
the appropriate strategic direction. And it helps give us a blueprint for how Canadians can hold
00:33:18.000
the politicians accountable. Professor Lepret, I really want to thank you for joining me on Full
00:33:22.800
Comment today and making sense of this weighty issue. It's been a real pleasure. Thanks for the
00:33:28.960
opportunity to talk about this. Full Comment is a post media podcast. I'm guest host Adrienne
00:33:34.560
Batra. This episode was produced by Andre Pru with theme music by Bryce Hall. Kevin Libin is the
00:33:40.160
executive producer. You can subscribe to Full Comment on Apple Podcasts, Google, Spotify, and Amazon
00:33:46.240
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