Full Comment - The unlikely Conservative ‘pit bull’ of Parliament

00:00:00.000 $1.83. Canadian households now owe $1.83 for every dollar of disposable income they have.

00:00:12.440 That's what Stats Canada says. The amount that Canadians owe got higher while the value of their

00:00:17.440 assets declined. And with the bank's seventh consecutive rate hike this year, even the bank

00:00:23.000 governor said the deficits are increasing inflation. That in turn leads to those higher

00:00:28.080 interest rates. So now Canadians are stuck with the biggest bills they've ever seen. The more this

00:00:33.440 government spends, the more things cost. So when will the Liberals stop making Canadians pay for

00:00:39.420 their wasteful spending? If you follow federal politics in any way, shape or form, if you're

00:00:44.820 one of those hardcore people that watches Question Period every day, even if you only follow it on

00:00:49.640 social media, that voice you just heard will be a familiar one. Melissa Lansman was first elected

00:00:55.560 in the 2021 federal election. It might seem like a meteoric rise for her to be one of the go-to 0.76

00:01:02.180 people for the Conservative Party to turn to in Question Period. But if you've been following her

00:01:07.800 career for a while, if you've known her, then it's been a slow, progressive move up the chain.

00:01:15.060 Hi, my name is Brian Lilly. I'm the guest host for Full Comment this week. And we're joined by

00:01:19.800 Melissa Lansman, who went from political staffer to private sector guru of sorts to now MP. She joins

00:01:28.780 me from her office in Ottawa. Melissa, thank you for the time. It's good to be here. So let's talk

00:01:35.840 about this. You have become kind of the pit bull, for lack of a better term. It's a role that many have

00:01:43.320 held, including your current leader in the past. You seem to be the person that the party turns to.

00:01:49.160 Tell us about your official role, and then what you're doing and asking. You know, what is your

00:01:54.220 official critic's role? But what are you spending your time on when holding the Trudeau government's

00:01:59.380 feet to the fire? Well, I think I'll take that as a compliment. If pit bull goes, if I understand

00:02:07.380 pit bull in the same way that you do. Look, I was honored to be chosen in this, since the election

00:02:14.960 of the new leader, as the deputy leader, as one of two deputy leaders. And you're right, I play a role

00:02:22.560 in the House. I play a role in different committees. And I play a role in holding the government to

00:02:28.180 account and being the voice of, frankly, I think a lot of Canadians who feel like their voice isn't

00:02:34.520 being heard with this government. So I get to be the understudy with my friend, Tim Uppel, who's

00:02:40.500 an experienced parliamentarian, who's been a minister, who takes on some of the outreach role.

00:02:48.720 And I get to do what I think I do pretty well in the House of Commons and beyond.

00:02:54.720 How did you get here? You know, for people in the Toronto area, they may know you from media appearances,

00:02:59.940 from your time hosting a talk show on US Talk 1010, where, hey, roles are reversed. I was a guest

00:03:05.840 on your show. Now I get to be the host. But how did you get here? I first met you more years than

00:03:14.360 either one of us would like to admit, when you were a younger political staffer. But how did you get

00:03:20.940 into politics to where you are now? Take us through a bit of your backstory, in terms of why politics?

00:03:28.500 Why the conservatives? For sure. Look, I play the millennial on TV, so we won't talk about how long

00:03:35.500 we've known each other. But in politics, I'd always had one foot in the door of politics. And I was

00:03:45.040 interested in it as a young person, even dating back to high school, where I walked into a campaign

00:03:52.320 office, met some of my best friends until today, some of the, you know, our mutual friends on that

00:03:59.760 first campaign. I think I was 14 or 15 years old. And I kind of never left. I did other things. I

00:04:07.340 worked in the private sector. I, you know, I was planning on going through school and going through

00:04:13.660 law school and pursuing an academic career. And I just couldn't stay away. So part of it was

00:04:20.060 volunteering, part of it was being a being a staffer. Then I got into the the commentary part

00:04:25.860 of it. Somebody was crazy enough to give me a radio show where you and I can banter for an hour on on

00:04:33.240 Sunday nights. And I'd always, I'd always had a foot in politics, no matter what I did. And I knew that

00:04:39.980 when the opportunity came around, that I couldn't pass it up to try and serve the community that I came

00:04:44.720 from. You sound a bit like Pacino in Godfather three, just when I thought I was out, they pull

00:04:52.260 me back in, like it's got you. And you can't let it go. That that's a pretty common thing for a lot

00:04:57.800 of politicos, isn't it? It's a pretty common thing for I think anybody that, you know, that thinks they

00:05:03.340 might have some of the answers, they might have some of the solutions, and is willing to, to work hard

00:05:09.360 for, I think, in my case, a constituency that I feel is ignored, a constituency that I feel frankly

00:05:17.180 is, is, is outright diminished in terms of importance by the government of, of the day.

00:05:24.060 And I thought that, hey, rather than slinging mud and, and, and complaining, I was going to roll my

00:05:30.700 sleeves up and, and get dirty and, and try to speak up again, for those who I don't think are being

00:05:37.860 heard. Are you talking about the Jewish community of Thornhill? Because Thornhill is one of the

00:05:44.440 largest Jewish communities. It's not the only group within there. But look, it's, I think it's a, it's a,

00:05:49.900 it's a big part of, of who I am in the community that I come from. But it's any religious community

00:05:54.840 anywhere in, in this country, it's any middle class Canadian, anywhere in this country, it's anyone

00:06:02.560 who has got a mortgage who is worried about paying grocery bills and, and home heating and, and gas.

00:06:10.600 It is, it is frankly, the story of those in the 905 that have a similar story of the one that I grew

00:06:17.200 up with, who want a better life. And I think that I'll add to the conversation there. And I think I have

00:06:22.600 been adding to the conversation there. Why the conservatives, though? A lot of people would say,

00:06:28.620 okay, younger woman plays the millennial on TV comes from an urban riding lesbian, like why the 1.00

00:06:35.180 conservatives, you don't take any of the boxes for those big, bad, mean Tories who hate everyone.

00:06:40.660 Well, I'm, I'm, this isn't a box ticking activity. This is an activity of, you know, what you believe

00:06:46.700 and why you believe it. And first of all, I've always been a, a conservative, I believe in

00:06:52.000 smaller government, less government, less intrusion, more responsibility. And those are the values of

00:06:58.720 the, the conservative party. And I think more and more, we're seeing the values of a traditional

00:07:04.780 liberal party just throw itself away to, to the left. And I don't even recognize this, this iteration

00:07:12.720 of, of the liberal party. So not a lot of options in Canadian politics, but this one has always been

00:07:17.820 the one that, that I've been on, that I've been inside that I've felt welcome in, and that I've

00:07:24.340 made a home in. Let's talk about your riding though. Your family, your parents came from Russia,

00:07:32.940 you were born here, correct? I was born here. Yeah. You were born here, Russian immigrant or Ukrainian

00:07:38.600 immigrant parents who, you know, when left, when Russia still controlled Odessa, I believe.

00:07:45.960 There's a large Russian population there. In addition to a large Jewish population in Thornhill,

00:07:51.280 there's a large Chinese population in Thornhill. I believe there, you know, you border on ridings

00:07:57.840 with large Iranian populations. For sure.

00:07:59.740 And in, and I'm assuming there's some of that within your area. So, I mean, there's a lot of

00:08:06.500 ethnic, cultural, religious diversity, but also a lot of groups that are involved in the big news

00:08:14.080 stories of the day. How does that play out within your riding right now? You know, the, the protests in

00:08:22.280 China, the protests in Iran, the Russian and Ukrainian populations, the Jewish population with the,

00:08:28.580 the rise in antisemitism. It, that's got to be quite the melting pot in your area.

00:08:34.540 It is. It's actually, when you think about it, it's, it's touched by every single issue. And,

00:08:38.980 and, and we have a large Filipino population. You know, we have a, we have a large South Asian

00:08:44.680 community. Frankly, we, we've got a community of people that are a lot like my parents who came here

00:08:50.420 sometimes in the seventies or in the eighties. They worked hard to get ahead. They bought their first

00:08:55.800 home at, you know, a fraction of the price of a, of, of a home today. In my case, my dad came here

00:09:02.720 as an uncredentialed engineer who drove a taxi to put my mom through school. The problem is, is that

00:09:09.580 45 years later in their case, the story is not much different. The story is uncredentialed engineer

00:09:15.980 drives Uber to maybe put wife through school. Um, we haven't, we haven't, we haven't, we haven't gone,

00:09:21.800 um, we haven't done very much to make life easier for that immigrant story. And I always ask my dad,

00:09:27.720 if he would do it again. Uh, he says, yes, of course, a million times over, but it's going to be

00:09:33.440 a heck of a lot harder. So on the, you know, on the other issue that you bring up, we, we are,

00:09:38.880 we are like sort of the center of the universe of when all of these issues, uh, come, come to pass.

00:09:44.400 We have a large Iranian community sort of on the east side of, uh, of my, uh, of my riding. And I've

00:09:49.320 always, I've, I've, I've always been interested, frankly, in this issue. Went to high school with,

00:09:54.480 uh, uh, you know, with, uh, you know, as a half Jewish, half Persian kid, uh, high school. And we

00:09:59.760 sort of understood why our parents respectively left the countries that they left. And so I was in tune

00:10:05.840 with, with frankly, they have a very similar story of, of, of, of running from a regime that is now 43 years,

00:10:13.780 uh, in, uh, in power that kills its own people, that kills Canadians, that intimidates our, our,

00:10:19.360 our community. These are, these are issues, you know, the, the protests in China, the aggression in,

00:10:25.460 uh, in, in Ukraine by Putin. These are issues that come to pass at home. Uh, and they're really,

00:10:33.000 really connected to, to the community and they're felt by families and friends, uh, and those that

00:10:38.360 our community absorbs of, of people wanting to come to Canada, uh, for a better life. And what

00:10:43.760 we've got to do is we've got to make sure that we create the conditions here that each and every

00:10:48.180 one of them, uh, can succeed rather than having frankly, that, uh, that diaspora fight, if you

00:10:54.900 will, on the ground. Pierre Polyev, your, your leader won with a campaign that talked a lot about

00:11:01.400 getting rid of the gatekeepers. And he talked about getting rid of the gatekeepers who stop people like

00:11:06.940 your dad from being able to be an engineer or from being able to buy their house. Now, my parents

00:11:13.500 came a few years earlier than yours to this country. They came in, in 68. I was born a while

00:11:19.320 later, but they were able to buy their first house when I was about two, they, about five years into

00:11:25.980 being here, they were able to buy their first house. That's unless you come with a lot of money,

00:11:30.680 that doesn't happen the same way that it used to. How do we fix that? What, what, what are the

00:11:38.160 proposals the conservatives are putting forward for not just newcomers, but everyone? I mean, how

00:11:44.400 many of your friends do you know who have been priced out of the market? Um, or, you know, how many

00:11:51.200 stories do you know of people who decided to sell and now they can't get back in because of the way

00:11:55.700 things went. It is an insane situation where the cost of living doesn't keep up with what we have

00:12:04.280 and whether it is food or even worse housing. Yeah, look, I come from, uh, from a community, a typical

00:12:11.260 905 community, actually a little bit closer to Toronto. So the price is out of control, but there is

00:12:16.660 nobody I know, uh, or the few exceptions, very few people I know can afford to live in the place where we

00:12:25.280 grew up. Uh, same story, Brian, my, you know, my parents bought their home, uh, a rather large

00:12:31.560 family, family home north of Toronto. It was about 180 grand, uh, back in the day. Uh, good, the good

00:12:39.660 thing for them is they didn't have all of the fancy financial advisors and the, you know, the, the,

00:12:45.180 the generous pension plans from, uh, uh, from a guy who drove a cab to went to owning small businesses.

00:12:50.520 The equity that they have in the, you know, in the, in their home is what helped their retirement.

00:12:56.200 But there is, frankly, there's a billboard. Um, and I, I've made a comment about this. There's a

00:13:01.820 billboard in Toronto that I saw last year and it's trying to, you know, can't afford a home, get richer

00:13:06.740 parents. The truth is, is that that first generation like, uh, like me, well, I don't have rich parents.

00:13:12.680 I've got, you know, parents that worked really hard that got ahead, you know, tried to give us the

00:13:16.720 best that they, that they could. Um, but they ain't buying me a house. Yeah. And if that's like

00:13:22.120 me, very middle-class parents, very normal way of living. And if that's the, like, if that's the

00:13:28.820 solution, something's got to change in, uh, in this country and it can't be, uh, an over correction

00:13:34.700 of, of higher interest rates because of overspending that we're seeing from, from this government. It has

00:13:41.040 to be a build, a supply side solution of, we got to get more shovels in the ground. We've got to make

00:13:48.900 it, uh, affordable for builders to build. We've got to find them the spots to build and we've got to let

00:13:53.840 them do it, uh, because we know that the demand is there. We just have an issue with supply and that's

00:13:59.700 where, you know, that's where the leader talks about. That's where Pierre talks about the, the gatekeepers.

00:14:04.020 It costs hundreds of thousands of dollars in permitting and taxes for a home before you even

00:14:10.440 spend a dollar on the building materials. That's a problem in a country with a massive landmass,

00:14:16.020 uh, and, uh, and all of the building materials that we need in our backyard and a bunch of labor to do it. 0.99

00:14:24.540 On the gatekeeper side of getting people into the jobs they need, um, you know, we've got a health

00:14:31.260 crisis going on right now and you and I are in Ontario, but across the, the country, um, premieres

00:14:38.340 trying to scramble to get people approved and not just people who were trained elsewhere, but get

00:14:44.940 people in. We do have a guild system for a lot of professions still. It's, um, not actually about

00:14:52.620 making sure that we've got enough people for the job. It's about keeping people out so that you keep

00:14:58.040 control of who's in and look to a degree, you know, you, you want standards for doctors, you want

00:15:03.260 standards for nurses. Um, but this becomes part of the ongoing issue of not enough people filling 0.98

00:15:12.200 the jobs that, that we need. How are you guys proposing to tackle that compared to what the, the

00:15:17.460 liberals are talking about, which doesn't seem to, they just say, let's bring in more people. Okay.

00:15:23.140 Well, it's great if you bring in more people, but if you don't have houses for them, you don't have

00:15:26.820 jobs. And when they get here, the jobs they were trained for before they can't do that's, that's

00:15:31.380 no solution at all. For sure. And we're, we're lucky where we are in one of the Western countries

00:15:36.120 that's still, uh, you know, that still puts a high importance, uh, and is really accepting of,

00:15:41.820 of more immigration, larger numbers. Uh, but at the same time, we've got to make sure that we have

00:15:47.560 a place to house those people, uh, that, that, uh, that come in new Canadians need a, need a place to 1.00

00:15:53.560 go to school and use a hospital and, uh, uh, and, and raise their families. And at the same time,

00:15:59.760 we've got to put people to work within their professions, within a scope of practice that makes

00:16:05.760 sense. And there's lots of different pieces to that. You talked about, you know, one of the

00:16:10.000 gatekeepers, I'll just, I'll say it out loud. What, what I think you meant is some of the unions are

00:16:14.240 keeping out, uh, medical professionals from the profession. And you're right. We do need standards,

00:16:19.120 but at the same time, we, we also, there's nothing that should stop a doctor who's trained

00:16:24.620 in a place like Germany from, uh, from practicing here. Not more, you know, not more med schools.

00:16:30.440 Perhaps they have kids in hand. Perhaps they've got, uh, you know, they've got other responsibilities.

00:16:34.700 Med school isn't an option anymore and it shouldn't be. The same thing on nurses. We've got nurses 1.00

00:16:40.380 that aren't practicing to, uh, to their full scope. And that's a fight between a couple of different

00:16:45.480 unions. We've got pharmacists that can't give you something for diaper rash. We actually need every 1.00

00:16:50.560 level of government, uh, you know, thinking about what they can do to make the system make sense for

00:16:58.120 those who are using it. Uh, and I don't think that this is throwing standards out, uh, out of the window.

00:17:03.520 I think it's just getting some of the, uh, the typical red tape, if you will, uh, or, or the,

00:17:10.300 the things that we're used to doing when our population was much, uh, which much smaller out

00:17:15.740 of the way, we've got to get those people out of the way so we can serve the population here. 0.95

00:17:20.860 We've got a crisis and it's not just more money. That's going to fix it.

00:17:25.680 We've heard a little bit about, or we've spoken a little bit about immigration here. And of course,

00:17:31.900 the Trudeau government says they want to be bringing in half a million people a year.

00:17:36.100 I am not actually sure that we have the infrastructure in place to do that. And that's

00:17:40.300 my big concern about it, which is not an anti-immigrant stance. It's, uh, where are we

00:17:46.040 going to house them? We've already got a housing crisis. Um, we're, you know, we, we spent years

00:17:50.760 not building infrastructure that we need for the existing population, but do you get actual

00:17:56.380 anti-immigrant pushback? I get some in my email. Do you get some as a, as, as an

00:18:01.820 MPD hear from people who say, well, you know, we wouldn't have a housing crisis if we didn't

00:18:06.440 bring in so many foreigners.

00:18:08.560 Yeah, look, of course we, we, we hear that and I'll dismiss it as quickly as I'll dismiss

00:18:12.300 it here. Um, I think that's, you know, I think that's Looney Tunes, uh, I, as a child

00:18:17.380 of immigrants, as a, as a, somebody from a community of immigrants that makes our community

00:18:21.800 go round and round, I have absolutely zero time for, for, for that sentiment, but I do get

00:18:27.080 your concern. Uh, the good news for you, Brian, is that this government couldn't bring

00:18:31.700 an immigrant in if they tried. If you stood in our office, if you were, if you spent a 1.00

00:18:36.600 day in our office, the amount of people with claims that are, you know, a year long, two

00:18:41.260 years long, three years long of trying to get families in, of trying to get sponsorship

00:18:45.060 in, uh, it is absurd. We've got a backlog in this country of 2.8 million immigrants, uh, 1.00

00:18:52.340 and about an hour or two of an appointment a week, trying to clear the cases that come

00:18:56.800 into our office. So the 500, you know, the 500,000 a year, while it's a lofty goal and

00:19:02.020 one that is important to fill our workforce with what we need, uh, it is not a goal that

00:19:07.060 this government who has lost the plot can ever achieve.

00:19:10.180 So the, the, the one that I keep pointing to, because it, it relates to my personal story.

00:19:14.860 My dad was a skilled tradesman when he came to this country to get a skilled trades approval

00:19:20.380 is currently, it bounces between 47 and 48 months, four years. Who's going to wait for

00:19:26.880 that? So I remember that.

00:19:27.840 What's he going to do in the meantime?

00:19:29.240 Yeah. I went to my mother and I said, when you applied to come to Canada, how long did

00:19:33.560 it take? She said, ah, it was a few months, but that was mostly because we wanted to get

00:19:38.220 our stuff in order. They were actually approved within weeks back then. And we were taking large

00:19:44.200 numbers in the late sixties, but perhaps not as large now, but we were still taking large

00:19:48.060 numbers. It was weeks. And then they took a couple of months to get their affairs in order

00:19:52.900 to move and come to the country. We, we've got an express program for investors. That's

00:20:00.540 almost two years. And I just think, why wouldn't they go somewhere else coming in? Uh, and that's

00:20:06.960 exactly the point. I think we're going to lose some of these skilled trades. I think we're

00:20:10.160 going to lose some of these students that, uh, that come in, uh, and study in our universities

00:20:14.840 and, uh, you know, and, and eventually hopefully become Canadians. We're going to lose those 1.00

00:20:19.820 people. In the meantime, if it does take long, there needs to be programs in place where we're

00:20:25.320 going to fund some of that education, when we're going to give, uh, you know, new Canadians and

00:20:30.660 immigrants, uh, a little bit of a hand up. Well, uh, well, maybe they, uh, they get their 1.00

00:20:35.840 credentials in order. Maybe they upskill. Uh, we want to create bigger paychecks for people. 0.98

00:20:41.800 Uh, and doing that is, uh, you know, the job of the government is making sure that if they're in

00:20:47.100 a lower skill job, that we can put them in a medium skill job, give them the training, give them a

00:20:51.540 couple bucks in their pocket while they're doing it, uh, and then have everybody move up that ladder

00:20:56.060 so their life is more fulfilling, uh, and their paychecks are bigger. I, I'm a big fan of bigger

00:21:02.240 paychecks. I'm going to send you my boss's, uh, contact info. I'll see if you can talk to her.

00:21:07.060 Um, we'll be back in a couple of minutes, uh, with Melissa Lansman. We're going to take a break.

00:21:11.760 I do want to talk about the, the rough couple of weeks that the Trudeau government's had some

00:21:15.840 own goals. And I want to delve more into the issue of antisemitism that has broken out,

00:21:24.000 not just in this country, but elsewhere as well with Melissa Lansman. When we return.

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00:22:41.340 richer than you think. Melissa Lansman, one of the most recognizable voices and figures for the

00:22:47.560 Conservative Party in their new iteration under leader Pierre Polyev. She's deputy leader for the

00:22:53.200 party, one of his go-to's in question period. And Melissa, you've quizzed the government on a lot of

00:22:59.960 different topics. I want to ask you about them being rattled over the last week or so, last couple

00:23:06.020 of weeks, a couple of own goals. One, their gun legislation, which I don't think they realized the

00:23:12.080 anger they were going to generate by doing a massive overreach and getting hunters and New Democrats and

00:23:19.900 Bloc Québécois MPs and rural liberal MPs upset. And the whole issue of China and interference and

00:23:28.800 a contract with the RCMP with a country that is ultimately controlled by the Chinese government.

00:23:36.600 So let's start with the gun thing. They were moving along with Bill C-21 pretty handily. They seem to

00:23:43.500 have a lot of public support. And then they bring in a last-minute amendment. Were you shocked at,

00:23:53.160 one, that they did that? Two, that they seem so caught off guard? Because they've gone from saying,

00:23:59.400 you're lying, you're spreading disinformation, to we're listening, we're going to talk about things.

00:24:04.800 It was a pretty quick, you're lying to we're listening. And like you said, this was a huge

00:24:11.660 miscalculation. And you're seeing it from any rural MP, any MP that has an indigenous population. 1.00

00:24:19.500 You know, they've done something where, you know, ostensibly they could have got this through.

00:24:25.620 I don't think it does anything to actually prevent crime and shootings in a neighborhood like mine or

00:24:32.260 just south of me, but that's besides the point. And then they put this amendment in sort of a sneaky

00:24:37.840 way where I actually, you know, it boils down to, they don't talk to anyone. They don't talk to

00:24:44.340 anyone but each other. They're, you know, the cabinet that probably put this through is a bunch

00:24:49.500 of urban MPs who don't know the importance of this, who don't understand that this is, you know,

00:24:56.180 a way of life for so many Canadians that don't live in an urban center. I think they just stopped

00:25:01.900 talking to people. They were talking to activists that were, you know, anti-gun and anti-all gun.

00:25:08.820 And they stopped talking to regular people. And that's what happens. And then they got caught.

00:25:13.880 And then they lied about it. And now we're seeing a bit of a backtrack, which is, you know,

00:25:19.540 hopefully results in, in them scratching them, scratching this and starting over.

00:25:24.840 I, my guess is they're going to try and do the bare minimum in backtracking to get this through.

00:25:33.760 I, it kind of, when it was mainly just conservatives going after them on this,

00:25:40.080 though, they didn't seem to care. It was conservatives. It was columnists like myself

00:25:43.860 and others in the media. I'll grant my media colleagues fair credit on this. A lot of them,

00:25:49.920 I mean, even over at CPC, were looking and saying, this is, this is problematic. This goes after

00:25:54.740 hunting guns. And then Carey Price came out and it became a big issue in Quebec. And then they were

00:26:00.020 like, oh no, we angered Quebec. That's bad. But the, the AFN and every indigenous group coming after 0.92

00:26:06.420 them, I think was really shocking to them. Were you surprised or you heard by the time it became

00:26:13.000 public that they were moving in that direction? Well, we heard that they were moving in, certainly in

00:26:18.540 that direction. And, and it's just, you know, goes to show you that the, the, the government, this is a,

00:26:23.620 this is an announcement government. This is an Instagram government. This is a TikTok government.

00:26:27.680 They do the fancy, they do the fancy announcements. And then when it comes to, you know, actually

00:26:33.380 carrying out policy or actually getting something done, uh, that's where it's all screwed up. And we

00:26:39.440 see it on legislation like this, sort of the sneaky underhand. We don't know what we're doing. Um, we,

00:26:44.920 we've, we've overreached too. You can't get a passport. You can't immigrate here. Uh, you can't 0.98

00:26:49.940 use basic government, uh, uh, services. This is a government that loves announcements, that loves

00:26:56.080 more responsibility, that loves to take on more and actually is incapable of doing the very basics.

00:27:04.120 And I think this legislation is frankly, the biggest assault we've seen on, uh, on hunting, uh,

00:27:10.920 on hunters, on farmers, on, uh, uh, on, on indigenous trappers. Uh, and it's not about,

00:27:17.180 you know, in a community like mine, it's not about necessarily the crux of the issue, which

00:27:22.000 guns are there and which guns are not. Uh, um, although I do view this as an assault, it's

00:27:27.520 about how blatantly you lie to the public on an amendment that could just, that is open,

00:27:33.340 uh, and you can read that is on the table. We're not doing this versus, well, yes, you are.

00:27:39.380 Well, there's an old saying. I think we can say it on a podcast. Don't piss on my leg and

00:27:44.520 tell me it's raining. And that's what they were doing. You, you called them an Instagram

00:27:49.440 government and a TikTok government that they love announcements. I remember when the, uh,

00:27:57.080 the liberals were in power under Paul Martin. Um, and I was there for the environment commissioner

00:28:02.880 releasing a report. And she said that they love announcements, but they have forgotten by the

00:28:09.040 time the confetti hits the floor. And your description there reminded me of, of that you're

00:28:16.180 someone who's been in government, not as an elected official, but as a staffer and staffers

00:28:22.500 have, uh, you know, depending on the minister, depending on the government, they either have

00:28:28.580 influence, they have say, but we're, they just see how things work. You were in the Harper

00:28:35.920 government at a time when passports, I, you know, now it's forever to get a passport. Passport

00:28:40.500 Canada used to be considered one of the gold standards of the government. You got a passport

00:28:45.260 in days. They would tell you up to 10 business days. It'd show up five days later. Um, how did,

00:28:52.140 how did we get there? I mean, I don't think it's just the pandemic. Are these guys just not

00:28:57.640 interested in the day-to-day mechanics of, of how government works?

00:29:01.780 That's, that's exactly it. They're not interested in the, in the hard works. Look

00:29:05.860 on the hard work, passports aren't, uh, you know, passports aren't sexy. There's no, there's no

00:29:11.620 Instagram, uh, announcement about like, Hey, look at this shiny new passport office. Like, great.

00:29:17.080 Awesome. Uh, this is a government, you know, this is a service that I expect from my government. I pay a

00:29:21.460 lot of taxes, uh, and it is only in the news when it is a really big problem, but it's the, you know,

00:29:27.300 it's, it's the doing the hard work of, uh, uh, of government, the, the mechanics of government and

00:29:32.580 a big part of that, Brian. And I don't know when last time you were in Ottawa, but Ottawa and

00:29:38.340 downtown Ottawa is still empty. Uh, and all you've got to do is talk to any one of the MPs in this

00:29:44.360 house. It doesn't matter what party you're from, that we have trouble reaching somebody, uh, you

00:29:48.860 know, from immigration. We have trouble reaching somebody from Passport Canada. We have trouble

00:29:52.760 reaching somebody from CRA, uh, and, and kids in the background, dogs barking. Uh, those are less

00:30:00.480 productive hours. There's no question about it. And if it wasn't the case, then we wouldn't have

00:30:05.220 news story after news story about the failure to deliver the very basics for taxpayers. I was

00:30:10.880 speaking with one MP when passports were in the news much more often and, uh, people may not know,

00:30:17.900 but there is a special line for offices of MPs to be able to call to deal with passport issues. Um,

00:30:26.000 it's kind of a backdoor for you guys, right? And if you've got a hard case, you call up the

00:30:31.740 passport office. You're from one MP who said their, uh, assistant spent four and a half hours on hold

00:30:38.540 to get through on a line that used to be 10 to 15 minutes. Yeah, it's a, it's a regular occurrence.

00:30:44.500 Uh, what happens in my office and shout out to Miriam, who is a godsend when it comes to that 1.00

00:30:49.220 stuff. But, uh, it is, you know, you come in in the morning, you dial it and you just wait to sit

00:30:54.300 on hold and hopefully somebody answers, uh, that day, pile up all your cases, uh, and you try to get

00:31:00.020 as much, you know, as much out of any human that will answer the phone. And this is getting worse.

00:31:04.760 It's getting worse with, uh, with grant applications. A lot of this stuff is questionnaires. It's done

00:31:09.940 online. Uh, it's hard to explain to a robot on the other side, uh, that this case is unique,

00:31:17.580 that this case is important, that they do good work. Uh, and it's hard, it's, it becomes harder

00:31:22.120 to advocate for, uh, for your own community when they standardize this into the lowest common

00:31:27.560 denominator and the lowest level of service we've seen in a long time. I want to double back to

00:31:32.540 something I said I'd ask you about, and then we got sidetracked on, um, uh, on, on how wonderful

00:31:37.000 government services are in Ottawa. Uh, the other own goal that they had, um, look, this whole issue

00:31:45.420 of the Trudeau government in China is bizarre to me. He was asked multiple times before his big

00:31:52.200 foreign tour, um, in early November, he and Melanie Jolie asked multiple times about foreign

00:32:00.560 election interference, never denies it once, never says he wasn't briefed on it, lets us think

00:32:06.980 he caused an international incident with Chinese president, uh, Xi Jinping and, and then later

00:32:13.360 says, but nobody told me about money. So you got that. Then you've got the RCMP contract. You've got

00:32:21.000 the police stations, which really I've gone to visit them. They're, they're more intimidation stations,

00:32:26.460 um, people going out and trying to coerce, uh, the Chinese diaspora inside Canada, all of these

00:32:33.600 things going on. And then last week when it seemed like a crescendo with the RCMP contract and this

00:32:40.780 firm that's controlled by China, getting a secure communications contract with them, he turned around

00:32:47.520 and he blamed the civil servants. I mean, he sets the policy, right? Tell, tell me this is a, both an

00:32:55.100 elected official and a former political staffer. The government of the day sets the policy, the

00:33:01.040 bureaucrats follow it, don't they? For sure. I mean, the call is literally coming from inside of the

00:33:06.040 house, uh, on, uh, on this one. Uh, look, we know, um, we know that all of these issues combined was a

00:33:14.480 big reason that they put out a, uh, their Indo-Pacific strategy and it was in a total 100% about face

00:33:21.800 on China. This is a government that for the last seven years moved our countries closer together.

00:33:27.820 And then in one foul swoop in one weekend on one Sunday, by the way, during a world cup game,

00:33:33.500 when Canada was playing, they decided that they were going to get tough on China. It's complete 0.99

00:33:38.220 nonsense. There is a lot of questions and they're not questions about, you know, what the prime

00:33:43.240 minister knew and when he knew it. It's about real, uh, real questions about who in the house of

00:33:49.240 commons, uh, you know, either received money, received help, or is being infiltrated by a foreign

00:33:54.840 government. It is an incursion into our sovereignty, uh, because of those police stations. It is a

00:33:59.960 question about why have we not seen a single Chinese diplomat, uh, from Beijing, uh, either a consulate

00:34:08.400 or, or from the embassy be expelled in this country for doing what is clearly obvious. And then of

00:34:14.140 course, I don't even think they've called them in for, have they? The, the cherry, I, well, look,

00:34:18.840 we don't, we don't know that it's, uh, it's hard to get an answer out of this government. It's not

00:34:22.040 called answer period, although I'll, I'll continue to ask questions, but then, you know, cherry on top

00:34:26.820 with an RCMP, uh, getting surveillance technology from a company that literally has 23 espionage

00:34:35.980 charges in the U S against their parent company. Like if that is, you know, you can't even make this

00:34:42.620 stuff up. Uh, and, uh, again, no, no answers. And I, and I hope that Canadians are, uh, are, are becoming 0.83

00:34:49.920 attuned to this because the only way to fight this kind of intrusion, this, uh, you know, frankly,

00:34:56.780 anything from, uh, from Beijing is to shine a light on it, to make it transparent, to make sure

00:35:02.680 that they know that we know, so they can't do it again.

00:35:07.040 We'll wrap up, uh, talking about the rise of antisemitism because there's a lot of disturbing

00:35:12.900 things over the past while. And it's difficult. I, like you, you, you know, people on all sides

00:35:23.460 of the house and I don't think that they're actually anti-Semites over there on the liberal

00:35:28.820 side, but they seem not to have their antenna up when they're giving contracts to people like

00:35:35.720 Leith Maroof. Um, when MPs from all parties end up at an event, I don't know who organized

00:35:43.740 it with Holocaust deniers showing up as guests. As a Jewish woman who represents an area with

00:35:54.140 a large Jewish population, this has to hit you hard, but as an MP, as a Canadian, how disturbing 1.00

00:36:00.240 is it that this is going on? It's disturbing, frankly, that nobody cares, uh, that I sometimes

00:36:08.820 am the lone voice that raises these issues. And I shouldn't say nobody cares. It's that,

00:36:15.320 you know, nobody is bringing it to the forefront. There are, there are members of the government

00:36:21.260 who sit there, uh, in the caucus watching hundreds of thousands of dollars flow to anti-Semites.

00:36:29.560 You know, this is, it's not a mistake when it happens over and over again. It's not an

00:36:34.720 accident. It's a purposeful, uh, it's a purposeful act by some within the government that have an

00:36:41.960 outsized role and an outsized, frankly, contribution to the way in which our, uh, our, our government

00:36:49.360 is, is headed. I can't explain it any other way because there are voices against anti-Semitism

00:36:54.660 in every party, but I don't know. They've been silenced because I'm not hearing them.

00:36:58.900 Anthony Housefather, man I've known a long time, um, met him when I was working in Montreal many,

00:37:06.120 many years ago. He raised the issue of Latham-Aroof with the government months before they did

00:37:12.480 anything. There is a, a blind eye, a, a, a willingness to just look the other way, if not

00:37:21.120 outright accept this. And I was talking with Erwin Kotler recently. I interviewed him as he was

00:37:26.860 getting, uh, the Churchill award here in Toronto. Great man, great outspoken opponent of anti-Semitism.

00:37:34.460 He's beside himself over this. I was, you know, I would say the same thing. I saw him,

00:37:39.120 uh, I saw him just a week ago and he was, he, he, he just questions like, how did this all happen? And

00:37:44.700 I, you know, I jokingly like tapped him on the shoulder and, uh, I don't know what we're allowed 1.00

00:37:48.460 to say on this podcast, but Erwin, since you left, this place went to shit. Uh, and, and the truth is, 0.99

00:37:55.080 is there is people like Anthony who, who have brought this up, but it happens. It happens

00:37:59.260 consistently over and over again. And if it's not, you know, if it's not the cover-up of Latham-Aroof,

00:38:04.940 it's funding to a publication that's calling for Holocaust, that's calls the, the Holocaust a

00:38:10.200 holla hoax. Uh, and if it's not that, then it's inviting these people to rub shoulders at a reception

00:38:16.320 on Parliament Hill. And if it's not that, it's hosting a conference on International, uh, uh,

00:38:22.160 Human Rights Day, uh, with somebody who has said just the most vile things about the Jewish people.

00:38:28.760 And it just continues to happen. And we continue to bring it up and it just happens again and again.

00:38:34.160 It's not a mistake. It's a purposeful act. Michael Levitt, who was a liberal MP for a

00:38:40.600 neighboring riding of yours, um, in North of Toronto, is now CEO of the Friends of Simon

00:38:46.200 Wiesenthal Center said, it would warm the cockles of my heart if rather than having to apologize for

00:38:52.720 swanning around with anti-Semites and Holocaust deniers on Parliament Hill, MPs didn't invite them

00:38:59.040 in the first place. Too much to ask? I don't think it is too much to ask.

00:39:04.160 No, and I think there is a, uh, is an unsaid reason, uh, why a principled man like Michael

00:39:10.020 Levitt doesn't sit within the liberal caucus anymore. All right. Melissa Lantzman, uh, want 0.98

00:39:15.780 to thank you for your time and we will see you in a, um, a very quiet spot in Ottawa sometime in the,

00:39:22.400 in the future, I'm sure. Uh, if not back here in Toronto, all the best. Sounds good. Take care.

00:39:28.020 Full Comment is a post-media podcast production. My name's Brian Lilly, guest host for this week.

00:39:33.560 This episode was produced by Andre Pru. The theme music is by Bryce Hall. Kevin Libin is the

00:39:38.660 executive producer. Remember, you can subscribe to Full Comment on Apple Podcasts, Google, Spotify,

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Full Comment - January 09, 2023

The unlikely Conservative ‘pit bull’ of Parliament

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