Full Comment - Why are Liberals attacking efforts to end Trump’s tariff war？

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00:00:22.860 Mr. Giovanni goes to Washington, but what did he really accomplish?

00:00:30.720 Hi, I'm Brian Lilly, and this is the Full Comment Podcast.

00:00:33.280 And this week, we're talking to Conservative MP Jamil Giovanni, who recently went to Washington.

00:00:38.620 He, of course, has a well-known, long-standing friendship with U.S. Vice President J.D. Vance.

00:00:44.380 He had a meeting with Vance. He was taken into the Oval Office to meet the President briefly.

00:00:48.980 He also had meetings with Secretary of State Marco Rubio, U.S. Trade Representative Jamison Greer, and others.

00:00:55.380 He said he was going down to put country over party.

00:00:59.100 He was offering up his services to the Carney government, who rejected it.

00:01:03.440 And in fact, well, when you look at the overall liberal reaction to Giovanni's decision to go down to Washington

00:01:09.540 and try and smooth things over for a trade deal, it seems that his visit irked them.

00:01:14.380 Prime Minister Mark Carney was dismissive, saying it was nothing but a media stunt, and Giovanni doesn't have the right job.

00:01:21.480 We have extensive contacts with the U.S. administration, constant contacts with the U.S. administration.

00:01:27.040 Minister LeBlanc gave a briefing to Mr. Giovanni, who I don't believe is the trade critic for the opposition,

00:01:34.720 certainly not the Minister of International Trade, nor the Prime Minister.

00:01:37.440 I think it might have something to do with all of you.

00:01:43.700 Industry Minister Melanie Jolie said that, well, Giovanni was actually, should be looking after his own riding

00:01:49.900 and the fact that job losses have mounted at the General Motors plant.

00:01:53.440 As MP in charge of Oshawa constituents that are working at GM, that are losing their job,

00:02:01.320 why is he just embracing the Trump administration that is putting tariffs on them and having them, you know, lose their job?

00:02:10.100 And why is he basically not denouncing the U.S. auto tariffs?

00:02:15.440 And that's just a question that across Oshawa people are asking.

00:02:19.180 Of course, he has spoken about those job losses, and he did offer to the Kearney government to work with them, but they rejected it.

00:02:26.500 And if you think that it didn't irk them, well, listen to Hamilton West, Ancaster, Dundas, Liberal MP, John Paul Danko in the House of Commons.

00:02:35.960 He wasn't debating the issue of Canada-U.S. relations.

00:02:39.220 He, in fact, was standing to debate the standing orders of the House of Commons, the rules that MPs play by,

00:02:45.160 when he suddenly went off on a tangent about Canada-U.S. relations and Giovanni himself.

00:02:51.280 Because there are very serious issues facing Canada at the moment, which have intensified since the last election.

00:02:59.400 A U.S. is hostile government, deliberate destruction of global allegiances, and the stability that our country has relied on.

00:03:07.480 We have a Conservative Party of Canada's own, Unity Mitford, who is attempting to freelance negotiations with the American president right now.

00:03:15.520 If you don't know, Unity Mitford was a British socialite who was enamored with Adolf Hitler,

00:03:20.620 moved to Berlin and tried to convince the Brits that they should join up with the Fuhrer.

00:03:25.880 Well, Mr. Danko is calling Jamil Giovanni a Nazi sympathizer, and by extension calling Donald Trump Adolf Hitler.

00:03:34.500 Regardless of what you think of the U.S. president, he ain't Hitler.

00:03:38.300 And finally, you had David Hurley, long-time liberal strategist, campaign organizer, and manager,

00:03:43.860 on the Curse of Politics podcast, making this comment about Giovanni.

00:03:48.560 It's about him and his political future.

00:03:51.380 Is this the show where we're supposed to tell the truth about politics?

00:03:54.840 Is this where we're supposed to tell the truth?

00:03:57.600 He's too unattractive physically to be successful in politics.

00:04:00.900 Hmm. He's not going to be the leader of a political party.

00:04:07.140 Oh, I don't... Look, I don't know if I'd agree with that.

00:04:10.820 I don't know if it's... I'm not going to weigh in on that one.

00:04:13.640 Which part? That he's too unattractive or that he is unattractive?

00:04:15.840 I mean, you've got to break this down, Fran. I know it's day one, but come on.

00:04:19.360 Look, as soon as the election was over, he immediately put out a petition.

00:04:24.140 I can't believe you're going to dismiss this. It's not mattering. Of course it matters.

00:04:27.280 I don't... Look, I think he's well-spoken, and I'm not ever going to say if a guy looks good or bad.

00:04:33.520 I just... No, I can't do it.

00:04:36.760 I'd say that, well, Mr. Hurley needs to look in the mirror that he clearly owns but doesn't use.

00:04:42.220 So, how does this all land?

00:04:44.200 Well, you're not taking flack unless you're over the target.

00:04:47.460 Let's talk to the man who went to Washington and get his reaction to all of this, Jamil Giovanni.

00:04:52.300 So, Jamil, how do you react to that? All of those liberals lining up to take shots at you, clearly you struck a nerve.

00:05:00.360 Well, I am trying to get something very serious done for our country, and I think it's, you know, unfortunate that some of the responses have been trying to kind of drag this down in the mud.

00:05:14.320 I mean, the reality is, like, we have a July 1st deadline to complete the review of KUSMA, a trade agreement that governs three quarters of our exports.

00:05:29.320 And, like, I think that's pretty important, and I think it's entirely reasonable for every one of the 343 members of parliament that serve this country to do whatever they can to try to help avoid further economic issues in Canada.

00:05:48.400 And I think I also conducted myself in a really respectful way.

00:05:54.920 I mean, you can look and see.

00:05:56.080 I've not been pointing fingers at the prime minister.

00:05:58.900 I've not been criticizing him.

00:06:00.520 In fact, I've been offering to work with him.

00:06:03.560 The first person I met with when I came back to Ottawa on Monday was Minister Dominic LeBlanc.

00:06:10.200 Look, you know, people can talk about national unity and working together.

00:06:16.160 I think I'm living that.

00:06:17.940 And I think it shouldn't be that hard for us to be able to work together.

00:06:22.180 So I'm not going to, you know, respond to any specific name-calling or whatever.

00:06:28.620 Like, I just want to get this done.

00:06:30.160 I'm really just trying to be as pragmatic as possible here.

00:06:33.300 I think that's what the country needs and deserves.

00:06:35.180 I remember years ago talking to your caucus colleague, Randy Hoback, a conservative MP from Prince Albert area in Saskatchewan, and happened to run into Randy while I was in Washington.

00:06:49.760 And we're talking, and he said that it always blows the minds of the Americans.

00:06:54.380 This is about a decade or so ago.

00:06:56.560 He said it blows the minds of the Americans when we show up in a multi-party setting.

00:07:01.260 And at that point, he was talking about going down to Washington with liberal MPs and new Democrat MPs.

00:07:09.080 I'm not sure if block MPs went.

00:07:11.140 And this was during the Harper government.

00:07:13.000 And they would go down as groups and go and meet with senators, members of the House of Representatives, members of the administration, and talk about issues.

00:07:23.200 And, you know, regardless of party in the Washington, D.C. side, they were always saying, we can't believe that you guys work together.

00:07:30.020 We just fight.

00:07:31.540 You were trying to work together.

00:07:33.840 In fact, I think it was last November when you made the offer to the Carney government.

00:07:39.760 How did that happen?

00:07:41.540 And what was their reaction?

00:07:42.800 Clearly, they did not take you up on the offer to work with you, although Minister LeBlanc took a briefing.

00:07:49.300 But how did you approach that?

00:07:51.000 And what did you say to them to try and say, hey, we can work together on this as Team Canada?

00:07:55.640 Well, you know, I've made public comments, as you noted, offering to help with building relationships in Washington and trying to advance dialogue between the two countries.

00:08:12.020 I made private efforts to have meetings with the prime minister and others.

00:08:20.100 Those efforts did not go anywhere.

00:08:23.560 And, you know, so, like, I think, you know, one of the things that I hope people reflect on before they, you know, get too opinionated about what I've done and my trip last week is to just consider what would you have someone do, right?

00:08:43.780 Like, if you have a member of parliament who has a direct line to the White House, should that member of parliament sit back and watch his own community lose jobs?

00:08:54.060 Should that member of parliament sit back and watch as economic uncertainty cuts investment into our industries and our economy is going through a recession watch?

00:09:05.240 Like, am I supposed to just sit back and watch?

00:09:07.320 Is that what my voters showed up on election day for?

00:09:11.580 I don't think so.

00:09:12.560 I think they want action.

00:09:14.260 So I made private efforts to talk.

00:09:17.360 I made public offers to talk.

00:09:19.620 They didn't go anywhere.

00:09:21.360 And so I went down myself.

00:09:23.500 And I went down not in any way to undermine the prime minister, but to encourage dialogue between the two sides.

00:09:31.220 I then, after returning, had the chance to speak with Minister LeBlanc.

00:09:36.240 As soon as he was willing, I took him up on the offer.

00:09:39.580 We had a very good conversation.

00:09:41.060 The ball is now in their court, what they want to do next.

00:09:44.120 But I just, like, my view on this, Brian, really is like, you know, if somebody wants to make a contribution to this country, is partisanship supposed to hold them back?

00:09:55.880 I don't think so.

00:09:57.140 I don't think that's what Canadians want.

00:09:59.460 And that's not what I want.

00:10:01.300 You know, I signed up for this job to be of service, to be useful, to be relevant.

00:10:06.420 And I am going to be those things.

00:10:08.640 And I'm not going to wait for someone to give me permission to do that.

00:10:12.980 One of the things that I've heard, mainly from keyboard warriors who don't know you, who don't know the situation, they're just convinced that you must have been acting rogue.

00:10:23.260 That conservative party leader, Pierre Polyev could never have sanctioned this.

00:10:28.760 Now, I asked Pierre about this back in December, and he said he was okay with it.

00:10:33.820 But I'd like to hear from you.

00:10:35.060 Well, you know, he knows that he's the one who set the direction for our party to be collaborative, especially at the turn of the new year.

00:10:56.540 I think he really recognized the need for us to identify ways that we could help achieve things where the government and the conservative party both agree.

00:11:07.360 And I think he, you know, saw my offer and my actions completely within that direction.

00:11:15.720 You're seeing in Ottawa right now, Brian, that the two parties are working through amendments and on a potential bail reform.

00:11:24.820 You're seeing, you know, a lot more dialogue between the two sides.

00:11:29.860 As a guy who's been championing the need for the government to do more for boys and young men, we're seeing the federal government now talking about a national strategy for men and boys and their health.

00:11:42.620 So we are seeing more collaboration.

00:11:45.740 And that is a direct result of Pierre Polyev recognizing that this is important for the country right now.

00:11:52.460 So I don't know why people would try to, you know, view this as some sort of friction between the two of us.

00:11:59.500 I think everything I've said and done has been completely in line with the direction he's put forward for our party.

00:12:04.820 Now, you and I spoke about this trip before you went, when we saw each other at the Conservative Party convention in Calgary, had a brief chat when you came back on the phone.

00:12:17.620 From our private conversations, from your public statements, I've always taken it as you putting country before party.

00:12:24.660 Talk to people who say, no, that's not it.

00:12:29.140 It's just self-aggrandizement.

00:12:31.880 This is your future leadership run.

00:12:34.080 This is your personal ambition.

00:12:36.600 What do you say to those people who are being skeptical?

00:12:39.560 Because I take you at your, you know, at your word.

00:12:43.320 And by the way, were you a Liberal MP doing this with a Conservative government?

00:12:47.220 I would be the same.

00:12:48.260 Like, we've got to take people at their word.

00:12:50.480 But how do you convince those that are very skeptical?

00:12:52.980 Well, look, I'm not in the business of trying to persuade people who have bad faith criticisms.

00:13:00.580 But I think some of the people you're describing do have good faith questions.

00:13:04.820 And to those people, what I would say is, I mean, look, what I'm trying to do here is help a Liberal Prime Minister get a trade deal done.

00:13:15.660 I am not trying to take credit for anything that I can't contribute.

00:13:20.000 I am trying to be a member of a team to accomplish an objective.

00:13:24.700 And I don't believe that being a member of a team requires, as some recent floor crossings might suggest, abandoning your party, your voters, or your convictions.

00:13:36.160 I can be a principled Conservative and work with Liberals on things that we agree on.

00:13:41.660 And I think that should be a normal part of how Ottawa works.

00:13:45.760 I don't believe that the people who vote for me expect me to be a potted plant sitting in a corner while the world goes by.

00:13:53.920 And, you know, it's never been my personality either.

00:13:58.080 Look me up.

00:13:59.460 For better or for worse, I've never been willing to be a potted plant.

00:14:03.480 And so this is who I am.

00:14:05.340 This is a promise I made to my community when I asked them to vote for me, is that you are going to vote for someone who is of action and will make bold moves and do what he can to change things for the better.

00:14:16.700 And that's what I've continued to do.

00:14:18.640 So if people have good faith questions about why I'm doing this or what my intentions are, I will just say, let the actions speak for themselves.

00:14:27.740 You don't even have to take me at my word.

00:14:29.600 You will watch and see how things unfold in the coming weeks, in the coming months.

00:14:34.080 And I think that I will earn every bit of trust that I think I deserve.

00:14:38.880 So I think people would be shocked at how often members of Parliament do work across party lines.

00:14:45.800 Most people just see question period and they see the back and forth.

00:14:50.680 What they don't see is at the end of question period.

00:14:53.160 And this is regardless of who's in government, who's in opposition.

00:14:56.500 Members from the opposition walk across and talk to ministers and say, hey, I've got this file in my riding.

00:15:03.060 Maybe it's an economic file.

00:15:04.440 Maybe it's an immigration file.

00:15:06.240 What can we do about it?

00:15:07.540 And then you go off and you try and find solutions.

00:15:09.900 That happens every day.

00:15:11.500 People just don't see it.

00:15:12.700 And to me, this is an extension of that.

00:15:14.640 But let me turn now and ask you about J.D. Vance.

00:15:19.500 Because before this trip, you didn't talk a lot about your friendship with J.D. Vance.

00:15:23.500 People knew about it.

00:15:24.940 But I think you were trying to keep that out of the limelight.

00:15:29.260 We know that you're in a fantasy football league together.

00:15:32.680 Came close to winning but didn't.

00:15:34.500 That probably still hurts.

00:15:36.540 But tell people about your connection with Vice President Vance.

00:15:41.580 How did you meet and are you still close?

00:15:45.060 Yeah, so we met 15 years ago at our law school orientation and we became good friends very quickly because, you know, in an environment like the law school we attended at Yale University, frankly, most people come from money.

00:16:03.800 They come from well-educated families.

00:16:06.860 Many of them are not even the first person from their family to go to an Ivy League school.

00:16:11.840 But for J.D. and I, two guys raised by single moms, we had a very different cultural experience.

00:16:19.760 So we stood out, you know, in that environment.

00:16:23.160 And I think we bonded over the fact that we were coming from a different place.

00:16:28.020 A lot of things were new to us.

00:16:30.080 A lot of it was uncomfortable, frankly.

00:16:32.020 I had never seen wine that cost more than $9 or cheese that didn't come from a plastic wrapper before.

00:16:38.980 So, you know, it was just a different cultural experience.

00:16:43.500 And so, you know, we became friends and, you know, we went through a lot of formative experiences together.

00:16:48.680 Law school interviews and, you know, summer internships.

00:16:52.160 And, you know, I was there when he met his now wife.

00:16:56.300 I did the Bible reading at his wedding.

00:16:59.500 You know, it's a real friendship out of mutual respect for what both of us have overcome in our lives and the adversity that we've encountered.

00:17:08.360 I can tell you that it is a weird thing when the guy that you, you know, drink beers with and play fantasy football with becomes a vice president of the United States.

00:17:17.960 I would imagine.

00:17:18.580 And so it has been an adjustment for us because a friendship that really is just about family and football and, you know, those kind of things all of a sudden had politics injected into it and what felt like overnight.

00:17:35.160 And, you know, I've I don't talk about this very much, not because I want to pretend I'm not his friend.

00:17:43.580 I mean, you can find pictures of us together on the Internet pretty easily.

00:17:46.860 It's mostly just I don't, you know, didn't want to make our friendship about politics.

00:17:51.560 You know, he's part of a government that's doing their thing.

00:17:55.580 If we had won the last election and I was in a position to reach out to him as a member of the governing party, I think that would have been easier and more straightforward.

00:18:05.660 But after we lost, I thought it was important to let Carney and his cabinet build their own relationship with the Trump administration and figure out how they can work together.

00:18:16.860 Um, so I felt like enough time has passed and, you know, the reality, Brian, is like there have not been substantive conversations between our government and the U.S. government since the end of October.

00:18:30.080 And watching that happen three and a half months without, you know, real dialogue, um, it just felt to me like, look, now is the time to say enough time has passed.

00:18:41.240 Let's now reach out to JD and have that political conversation.

00:18:44.220 And that's what going down there was about.

00:18:46.280 It was about saying, look, like, I've not come to you about these issues before.

00:18:50.660 I've tried to respect, uh, you know, Carney's unique responsibilities there.

00:18:55.300 But I just want you to know, like, this is really important to my country and we need to build some bridges here.

00:19:00.860 We need to resume dialogue.

00:19:02.560 We're getting closer to the July 1st deadline for Kuzma.

00:19:05.780 And I don't want us to be inching toward that date with a huge question mark hanging above our heads of what's going to happen to our economy.

00:19:14.200 Um, so, so that's why I, you know, kind of reached out to him about politics really for the first time, you know, since I became a politician and he became a politician.

00:19:24.020 So, let me ask you then, uh, how did he respond to that?

00:19:28.920 Um, it's, I'm guessing one of your first times or a few times seeing him since he became VP, has that changed him?

00:19:36.300 And, and, and what was the, the conversation like?

00:19:39.340 Yeah.

00:19:39.880 I mean, I'll, you know, with, uh, I'll be respectful of not, you know, disclosing too many things, but I mean, he.

00:19:46.060 Understandable.

00:19:46.600 He greeted me like his friend, you know, like, like, and, and we've, we've been friends and we will continue to be friends.

00:19:52.940 Um, and he was very warm and gracious and I got to see his, his wife, the second lady as well.

00:20:00.360 Um, we had lunch together, we caught up, um, you know, and it was, uh, it was great to see him.

00:20:06.260 Like it's, it, I'm really happy to see someone who I consider to be a good man and a good friend in a position like that.

00:20:13.520 And I'm just, you know, really happy for him and his family and their success.

00:20:18.420 Um, we, we had a good, it felt like catching up with an old buddy and, um, you know, that that's nice that it hasn't changed him in a way where he's unrecognizable.

00:20:27.680 He's still very much the same guy I remember going to law school with.

00:20:32.740 What, um, what's his view on Canada?

00:20:36.540 Again, I know that you don't want to get too much into the weeds and, and betray confidences from private conversations, but I, I know that he has a, a view.

00:20:45.180 Uh, some say he's changed a lot since he'll build the elegy, his breakout book.

00:20:50.100 Um, but you know, I, in looking at his public statements, his writings, he has a, a view that 20 years ago, 10 years ago, uh, on economics would have been at odds with the Republican party in the United States or the conservative party and the conservative movement in both countries.

00:21:10.440 And, and that is, uh, a more protectionist view and, and a view to use protectionist measures to bring back manufacturing.

00:21:19.740 Now I can understand that, um, whether I agree with it or not, I can understand the viewpoint.

00:21:25.780 He comes from Ohio.

00:21:26.980 He comes from an area that, you know, Ohio, part of the Great Lakes Basin used to be the manufacturing hub for the entire continent on both sides of the border.

00:21:37.040 Does he get that, um, the current trade standoff is hurting, you know, his family, his cousins in Canada?

00:21:49.220 Well, so yeah, you asked kind of about his view.

00:21:53.440 Well, I will say, you know, when we were in law school, uh, prime minister, Stephen Harper was, uh, was, was, it was the prime minister of Canada.

00:22:01.340 And, um, I remember, you know, we had lots of conversations where he, you know, really admired, uh, prime minister Harper and still does and thinks very highly of the, of the job that prime minister Harper did for Canada.

00:22:14.980 Um, you know, in terms of the protectionism and things like that, like, I think for them, it's really about rebuilding American towns and cities that have been in significant decline.

00:22:27.340 Um, like the one he grew up in, yes, like Middleton, Ohio, or, you know, Toledo or Cleveland or Detroit.

00:22:36.600 Um, you know, a lot of places, yeah, a lot of places where, as, you know, globalization developed and, you know, manufacturing was offshored.

00:22:47.660 Um, it just really, uh, there was objective decline in the quality of life for hardworking people in those American towns.

00:22:56.740 And I think they are focused on doing an economic strategy that they believe can help rebuild America.

00:23:04.600 Now, of course, we, as Canadians, Brian, we want to see that for Canada.

00:23:12.660 We want to see, um, places like Oshawa and Windsor and Hamilton and other places around the country that used to have vibrant manufacturing economies.

00:23:22.840 We want to see them thrive too.

00:23:24.440 And, um, what I think our task is, is figuring out how do we continue to have this special economic and security relationship with the United States where it's not a zero-sum game, right?

00:23:39.220 Where one job in Toledo is not competing with one job in Hamilton.

00:23:44.440 Um, that is what we need to figure out how to do as two countries working together.

00:23:49.560 And I do believe that there is a pathway to moving away from a zero-sum game where we understand that things like the value chain in auto, for example, mean that Canadian auto manufacturing actually supports job growth in states like Ohio or Michigan, as opposed to competing with job growth in those states.

00:24:10.540 But that only, that kind of mutual understanding only comes from being able to sit down and work together.

00:24:18.700 And unfortunately, we're not at that stage yet between the two countries.

00:24:22.960 Um, but that's where I would like for us to be because I would love to see a vision where Hamilton thrives and Toledo thrives and Detroit thrives and Oshawa thrives.

00:24:32.480 Like, that is what a successful, strong North America looks like.

00:24:36.300 The, uh, um, the view that was put to me a year ago, I was in Washington a year ago, I was speaking with Senator Kevin Kramer from North Dakota, Republican, very close to the president, uh, supportive generally of his agenda.

00:24:51.280 But he, he was saying, look, we could move all the auto jobs out of Ontario into Michigan and Ohio tomorrow.

00:24:58.160 We simply don't have the workers to fill those jobs.

00:25:02.380 We, we would not be able to replace everything that's happening in Canada right now.

00:25:08.880 Um, hopefully that gets through.

00:25:10.960 There was a statement that I'll paraphrase from J.D. Vance, a statement that he made a while back.

00:25:15.960 He said, um, you know, in relation to his move from, uh, pure market economics to where he is now, he said, sure, we can get goods cheaper by importing them from China.

00:25:28.780 But what good does that do if nobody has a job to be able to buy them?

00:25:33.040 And that, I think, sums up kind of the, the mindset shift that's happened in Washington that I'm not sure our officials and our, you know, elected and bureaucratic in Ottawa have figured out.

00:25:45.960 Yeah, I mean, I, I think that you're making a great point there, which is a lot of this is a worker oriented approach to trade and economic development.

00:25:57.480 And I do believe that that is an area where, you know, Canadians and Americans overlap.

00:26:03.340 I think we also, as Canadians want a worker oriented vision for the economy because we've seen how GDP can be going up while the quality of life goes down because affordability becomes a growing issue.

00:26:20.180 We've seen that you can have this booming real estate economy while people can't afford a house.

00:26:26.300 Like, we know that a worker oriented approach to economics creates a different set of outcomes that are better for the average person.

00:26:35.920 And I think that is what we need to embrace as well, not just as it relates to trade policy, but also when we talk about the need for these, you know, major projects, big nation building projects, you know, which frankly, we haven't seen enough of, even though there's been a lot of talk about building things in Canada.

00:26:54.400 One of the reasons building things in Canada is so important is because it does create meaningful opportunities for people.

00:27:02.060 So, yeah, that should be the center of economic policy, in my view, domestic and international.

00:27:07.740 And I'd like to see our government embrace that as well.

00:27:13.040 We got to take a break in a moment.

00:27:14.800 And after that, I'll ask you about Restore the North and your, you and Shuv Majumdar going on about liberal racism and early election and all of that.

00:27:22.880 But first, before I leave J.D. Vance, does your friend have what it takes to replace Donald Trump?

00:27:28.620 Is he going to be the nominee in 2028?

00:27:30.800 Are you willing to prognosticate on that?

00:27:34.160 Yeah, look, if he makes, he hasn't made a decision on whether he wants to run yet.

00:27:38.180 You know, he's got a fourth child on the way.

00:27:39.940 I'm sure he's got a lot to weigh with he and his wife.

00:27:43.460 But I think if he decides to do it, I'm very confident he's going to win.

00:27:48.040 And I think he's incredibly talented, very hard worker, visionary.

00:27:52.740 I think he understands where the world is going.

00:27:54.960 And he is going to be a leader that can prepare his country for the future.

00:27:59.200 And one thing I'll say is for all the Canadians saying, no, we can't possibly have that guy in, protectionist.

00:28:05.220 If you haven't been paying attention to Washington, protectionism is a bipartisan issue now.

00:28:10.360 And we've got to get used to it and figure out how to work it.

00:28:13.280 All right, quick break now, and when we come back, we will talk to Jamil Giovanni about the other people he met with in Washington,

00:28:19.080 any progress he made, but also restore the North, his push for helping young men in this country and other issues.

00:28:26.140 Back in moments.

00:28:27.180 Some say the bubbles in an arrow truffle piece can take 34 seconds to melt in your mouth.

00:28:32.100 Sometimes the very amount you're stuck at the same red light.

00:28:35.580 Rich, creamy, chocolatey arrow truffle.

00:28:38.580 Feel the arrow bubbles melt.

00:28:40.620 It's mind bubbling.

00:28:41.600 Investing is all about the future.

00:28:44.580 So what do you think is going to happen?

00:28:46.500 Bitcoin is sort of inevitable at this point.

00:28:49.020 I think it would come down to precious metals.

00:28:51.600 I hope we don't go cashless.

00:28:53.700 I would say land is a safe investment.

00:28:56.300 Technology, companies.

00:28:57.440 Solar energy.

00:28:58.440 Robotic pollinators might be a thing. 1.00

00:29:01.040 A wrestler to face a robot.

00:29:02.740 That will have to happen.

00:29:04.340 So whatever you think is going to happen in the future, you can invest in it at Wealthsimple.

00:29:09.740 Start now at Wealthsimple.com.

00:29:12.940 Got PC Optimum points?

00:29:14.640 Visit Shoppers Drug Mart for the bonus redemption event and get more for your points.

00:29:18.800 Friday, February 13th to Wednesday, February 18th.

00:29:21.780 Valid in store and online.

00:29:22.860 There were so many missed opportunities to catch this before the devastating thing happened.

00:29:34.540 A third of them we found literally in the phone book.

00:29:38.040 These people were not afraid.

00:29:40.280 They knew that nobody was effectively hunting them.

00:29:42.920 They knew they had escaped justice, that they were going to die in their beds.

00:29:47.220 When I give talks at law schools, it's that the Charter ultimately is empowering a minority.

00:29:51.180 And it's empowering a minority that's a guild across the country.

00:29:54.180 And it's a fairly elite guild.

00:29:55.280 And the guild is lawyers.

00:29:56.220 Families who were split by a referendum.

00:29:59.580 And brothers and sisters who never talked to each other for years after the referendum.

00:30:04.520 Because they were so angry at each other because of the emotions on both sides.

00:30:08.840 The reason he was assassinated was not because he was trying to put a satellite into space.

00:30:13.640 But because the gun that he was creating had other applications that made him and the gun very dangerous.

00:30:24.220 It's finally here.

00:30:25.580 A new season of Canada Did What?

00:30:27.840 Host media podcast that revisits the big Canadian political events you might think you remember.

00:30:33.780 And tells you the real story you never knew.

00:30:36.420 I'm Tristan Hopper.

00:30:37.500 The voices you just heard are from our brand new season 2.

00:30:41.620 We will unpack some of the pivotal moments that helped define our country.

00:30:45.460 Often without a vote.

00:30:46.600 Usually without a plan.

00:30:47.980 And sometimes without anyone admitting what they've done.

00:30:51.780 We'll find out how Canada became a welcoming paradise for untold numbers of Nazi war criminals after the Second World War. 0.77

00:30:59.400 We let them build monuments to their wartime exploits.

00:31:02.240 And even ended up honoring a Nazi fighter in the House of Commons.

00:31:05.800 And I'm sorry to say that none of that happened by accident.

00:31:09.280 We'll bring you the little known story of a troubled Canadian rocket scientist who turned to a sinister life of selling giant guns to terrible people.

00:31:19.080 And if that sounds like a spy novel, it ends like one too.

00:31:22.420 You'll hear the behind the scenes story of Quebec's attempted secession from Canada.

00:31:26.260 And how very close we came to a political crisis that would have made Brexit look like a picnic.

00:31:32.780 You'll hear about how the much celebrated Charter of Rights and Freedoms turned into something its creators never wanted.

00:31:39.680 And how many of the most extravagant warnings about the document were all quickly proven true.

00:31:44.920 And you'll even hear about how authorities bungled multiple chances to stop the deadliest terrorist attack in our country's history and then proceeded to pretend it never happened.

00:31:55.600 These aren't dusty history lessons.

00:31:57.900 They're stories about power, ambition, madness, and the things about Canada that a lot of people would rather ignore.

00:32:04.480 But not you!

00:32:05.860 You won't want to miss an episode.

00:32:07.500 Subscribe to make sure you get all of Season 2 starting March 2026 anywhere you get your podcasts.

00:32:14.920 Jameel Javani, Conservative MP for, is it Bowmanville is your riding, Jameel?

00:32:19.840 Bowmanville, Oshawa North.

00:32:21.560 Okay, Bowmanville, Oshawa North.

00:32:23.320 So you were down there talking about the GM plant.

00:32:26.520 You were down there talking about auto workers.

00:32:28.680 Let's talk about the other people that you met with.

00:32:30.760 President Trump, that was kind of like a walkthrough.

00:32:34.740 Hi, how you doing, sir?

00:32:36.340 Describe it to me.

00:32:38.120 Yeah, so J.D. kind of gave me a tour of the White House.

00:32:41.500 And, you know, the president kindly let us interrupt one of his meetings to chat with him for a bit and introduce myself.

00:32:50.260 We had, you know, good conversation.

00:32:52.640 And hopefully it's not the last time that we'll have a chance to speak.

00:32:57.900 But I appreciated him making time to talk to me.

00:33:01.600 Obviously, he's an incredibly busy person.

00:33:04.420 He loves the Canadians.

00:33:05.920 Yes, he did ask me to share that message with my fellow countrymen.

00:33:12.060 And, you know, I kind of took that as him, you know, making the point that however he might feel about our government,

00:33:20.120 it does not reflect on his view of the people of this country.

00:33:23.680 And I thought it was, you know, if the president asked you to share something, it's probably worth sharing.

00:33:29.320 So I passed it on to everybody on Twitter.

00:33:34.160 You met with Marco Rubio, Secretary of State.

00:33:37.900 That's just one of his jobs.

00:33:39.440 And if you're online at all, you've seen all the memes of him taking on every other job on the planet.

00:33:44.840 Those are great fun.

00:33:46.260 But Secretary Rubio is one of the most, you know, as an outsider, I would say,

00:33:51.880 he appears to be one of the most influential cabinet ministers there.

00:33:56.600 What can you tell us about that chat?

00:33:59.320 Yeah, we just talked a bit about, you know, I shared my views on Kuzma and the urgency. 0.89

00:34:06.280 You know, he had just hosted a critical minerals conference at the State Department right before he and I met.

00:34:12.860 So we talked a bit about critical minerals, what they were hoping to accomplish at that conference.

00:34:19.460 You know, I learned a bit about the critical minerals agreement that they have done with Mexico,

00:34:25.140 which unfortunately Canada is not part of, and Canada does not have an action plan on that issue with the United States right now.

00:34:34.240 So, yeah, just, you know, kind of just catching up on what he's working on.

00:34:37.420 And, yeah, he's, as you said, you know, has a lot of responsibilities there.

00:34:42.700 In terms of discussions with Rubio and Jamison Greer, who is really, in terms of getting Kuzma settled, one of the key people,

00:34:55.080 Jamison Greer, for those that don't know the name, United States Trade Representative, he's the lead negotiator.

00:35:00.260 You heard from both of them about Mexico being ahead of Canada.

00:35:06.580 There's been a lot of commentators who are not just reacting to every true social post Trump makes,

00:35:12.840 pointing out that Mexico is ahead of us.

00:35:15.320 You appear to have really gotten that sense when you were in Washington.

00:35:19.100 Are they further ahead than most of us realize in terms of a trade deal compared to Canada?

00:35:23.600 Well, I think certainly, you know, and so the critical minerals issue would be one example.

00:35:31.220 But another one would be both countries have, you know, formally announced Kuzma reform talks,

00:35:38.020 which, as I said about, you know, July 1st being a deadline for the review,

00:35:44.960 you know, it's a bit alarming that two of the three countries in the trade agreement have started, you know,

00:35:53.040 that dialogue, and we have not.

00:35:55.620 So that really stands out to me as something that is a red flag for us.

00:36:01.500 And one of the reasons why it stands out is we've been down this road before.

00:36:06.420 In 2017, when Justin Trudeau was prime minister,

00:36:11.020 Mexico and the United States progressed quite far along without Canada involved in talks,

00:36:17.060 to the point where a bilateral agreement between those two countries was a real possibility.

00:36:23.720 And Canada, sort of at the last minute, had to step in and sort of advocate to be included.

00:36:30.300 Now, I probably don't need to sort of say this, but it should be obvious, but I'll just, you know, clarify.

00:36:36.440 Like, it is not the best situation for your country to be included in an agreement at the last minute.

00:36:45.040 Obviously, the best case scenario is to be part of the dialogue the entire step of the way.

00:36:50.880 And I do worry that we are potentially repeating the mistakes of 2017, where we're being left out,

00:36:59.020 the relationship breakdown has occurred, and then we're going to wind up being shoehorned into an agreement

00:37:04.720 closer to the end of, you know, completion, where, like, at that point,

00:37:09.740 how much of our priorities are going to be in there?

00:37:12.200 And who knows, right?

00:37:13.320 So I'm trying to avoid that.

00:37:15.120 And that's one of the reasons why I bring up the Mexico example, is just to show to Canadians,

00:37:19.960 this is, again, not about taking sides on whether you like the U.S. government or you don't.

00:37:27.160 This is not about elbows up or elbows down.

00:37:30.480 This is about real things happening that are going to affect our economy

00:37:34.780 and wanting us to be part of those conversations as much as possible.

00:37:39.820 Look, we all want to diversify trade, but that's going to take a long time.

00:37:43.100 And in the meantime, we've got our biggest trading partner is still the United States.

00:37:48.220 76% of our exports in 2024 went there.

00:37:52.020 If we don't sign on to a deal, we're in for a world of hurt until we finally start seeing that diversification take place.

00:38:01.620 And if you want an example of how tough it is to diversify our trade away from the United States,

00:38:08.600 when Stephen Harper took office in 2006, we had free trade agreements that covered six countries.

00:38:15.560 By the time he left office in 2015, it was 46 countries.

00:38:20.640 And now we're at 51 countries with a free trade agreement.

00:38:24.640 And still 76% of our trade goes to the United States.

00:38:27.880 So, you know, you can go out and sign more trade agreements, but if you don't actually put in the work to adjust,

00:38:33.260 it's going to take forever and we're in a bad spot.

00:38:36.620 I want to ask you one last question on your trip to Washington, and that is,

00:38:40.720 did you make any progress?

00:38:43.800 Do you feel like you made any progress?

00:38:46.140 You're going to have, of course, the doubters, but people will say,

00:38:49.780 well, he's not in the government, so could he actually have made any difference, any progress?

00:38:54.720 Well, I think certainly on the relationship side of things, which is very important,

00:38:59.840 I made tremendous progress.

00:39:02.080 There has not been a Canadian who has had that combination of meetings in a three-day span,

00:39:08.680 maybe ever, but certainly not in months.

00:39:11.500 So I think we've laid some good foundation for future dialogue.

00:39:16.360 But I will say to the good faith critics, they're correct.

00:39:21.180 I am not able to speak on behalf of the government.

00:39:23.640 I am not the prime minister.

00:39:25.340 I am not a member of his cabinet.

00:39:27.140 So there's only so much I can do without collaboration,

00:39:31.600 which is why my entire message has been, I want to work with Prime Minister Carney.

00:39:36.600 I want to work with Minister LeBlanc.

00:39:38.560 I want to help where I can.

00:39:40.360 I am not able to act on behalf of Canada, surely, but I am able to help.

00:39:46.320 And that's what I believe I accomplished and will continue to work on.

00:39:49.920 And as I said, this is not over.

00:39:51.980 This is not a one-off.

00:39:53.400 I am in this.

00:39:54.680 I am involved.

00:39:55.740 I am going to continue doing everything I can to move the ball forward.

00:39:59.580 And my hope is that instead of it being parallel to the government's efforts,

00:40:04.160 it is in line with the government's efforts.

00:40:06.420 And Brian, I think it would be amazing if I actually got to go down there with Prime Minister Carney

00:40:12.100 and with Minister LeBlanc and we could go down there to Washington with a unified front,

00:40:18.260 that would be incredible.

00:40:19.420 And I made that offer and I hope they take me up on it.

00:40:23.000 Well, when Donald Trump was inaugurated for the second time or around there, Stephen Taylor,

00:40:30.100 conservative commentator, made a comment that I agreed with him on.

00:40:34.480 Any conservative who has gone to CPAC in the last 10 years had more contacts and relationships

00:40:42.400 with the incoming Trump administration than anyone in the liberal government elected or bureaucrat.

00:40:47.580 And I would include Ambassador Hillman in that.

00:40:49.900 But they've never reached out and tapped into that, despite offers from yourself and others

00:40:55.380 saying, OK, this is a bipartisan issue.

00:40:57.940 Let's deal with it.

00:40:58.560 I think they really missed an opportunity to embrace you and your trip.

00:41:05.280 And, you know, you may not like to hear this, but I think they could have used that to their

00:41:10.160 own partisan benefit if they had embraced you and said, look, look, we're working with conservatives

00:41:15.140 and we're going to Washington and this is how great we are.

00:41:17.800 It may have helped them electorally.

00:41:20.780 But, you know, the collection of clips that played off the top just make it seem petty

00:41:27.340 at how dismissive and insulting they were about you and your trip.

00:41:33.140 Politics is about relationships.

00:41:35.620 And you've got a relationship that they don't have.

00:41:39.000 They should have used that.

00:41:40.860 Let's, it's a partial shift of gears.

00:41:44.340 And since we're going to talk about car strategy, I'll embrace the pun.

00:41:48.120 The Carney government has unveiled their car strategy.

00:41:51.720 Your party has been critical of it.

00:41:53.480 As someone that does represent an awful lot of workers at the GM plant, they've taken down

00:42:00.920 one of the shifts.

00:42:02.040 There's still people working at the plant.

00:42:03.780 It's not what it once was, but it's still a significant employer in your region.

00:42:08.100 Then what's your take on the car strategy, which despite the fact that the headlines all say

00:42:15.080 they're walking away from the EV mandate, to me, it's just the softening of the EV mandate.

00:42:21.240 And we're still on a push that the marketplace, in my view, will not or does not at this point

00:42:29.080 support.

00:42:29.640 Yeah, look, I mean, you're right.

00:42:32.800 They are, they won't give up on this EV thing.

00:42:35.500 They say they're walking it back, but then they're putting things in their auto strategy

00:42:39.880 that would really require EV manufacturing in order to meet some of these new standards

00:42:45.540 that they want to introduce.

00:42:47.540 So it is in effect an EV mandate.

00:42:50.220 And the reality is, whether you talk to the auto manufacturers, you talk to the unions,

00:42:55.120 you talk to the folks in the local economies in auto towns or historic auto towns, nobody

00:43:02.680 wants this.

00:43:03.920 I mean, it's just the truth of it.

00:43:06.700 You know, auto mayors across Ontario all signed a letter months ago asking Mark Carney

00:43:13.000 to abandon the EV mandate.

00:43:15.400 The unions have been clear.

00:43:17.700 The manufacturers have been clear.

00:43:19.200 I just don't understand what their fixation is on this EV stuff.

00:43:25.440 Maybe it's ideological.

00:43:27.300 Maybe there's some, you know, political incentive here that I'm not aware of, but I don't see

00:43:33.560 what demand it's meeting from anybody.

00:43:36.040 And, you know, so we're not in support of it.

00:43:38.720 You know, we also believe that a real auto strategy should incentivize purchasing cars made

00:43:45.620 in Canada.

00:43:46.340 And it's one of the reasons why we've been proposing this idea of eliminating the GST

00:43:53.100 on Canadian made automobiles.

00:43:56.280 I think that's a great idea.

00:43:57.900 I don't understand any resistance to it.

00:44:00.700 I hope they'll accept this proposal because I think it's a really good one.

00:44:03.980 Anything that helps us maintain or grow our auto industry should be our objective.

00:44:10.540 And I don't think the EV stuff helps us at all.

00:44:12.820 Well, you look at some of the most popular vehicles and they are made in Canada, whether it's the

00:44:19.580 Chevy Silverado in Oshawa, the Honda Civic in Alliston, the Toyota RAV4, including the

00:44:25.580 hybrid model made in Cambridge.

00:44:28.380 And you've got the Lexus out in Woodstock.

00:44:33.680 These are very popular vehicles.

00:44:35.540 And I think, you know, one of the problems I always had, whether it was the former wind

00:44:41.220 government in Ontario or the federal government offering subsidies for EVs, especially, you

00:44:47.080 know, back before there was even a sense that there'd be any EV industry in Canada, is that

00:44:51.740 we were incentivizing people to buy cars not made here and not do anything to get those

00:44:58.600 cars made here or do anything.

00:45:00.340 It was just like, yeah, let's give people a discount to buy a Porsche Spyder that is an

00:45:07.860 electric vehicle or a high-end Tesla.

00:45:10.340 It made zero sense to me.

00:45:12.140 And they seem to be going back to the future on that.

00:45:15.780 This is very disturbing.

00:45:19.400 But let me ask you about the deal with China, bringing in 49,000, then moving up to 70,000

00:45:25.760 low-end EVs, low-purchase price EVs.

00:45:30.900 I'm told the cars are fantastic, but they are heavily subsidized by the Chinese government.

00:45:36.660 When you look at what's happened in Brazil, which is a major auto manufacturer, they assemble

00:45:42.700 more cars than we do by far.

00:45:45.300 You look at what's happening in Western Europe, in Brazil, the Chinese come in with small amounts

00:45:51.280 and then quickly take over.

00:45:53.760 I worry that this is going to decimate our existing auto industry.

00:45:59.200 Yeah.

00:45:59.900 And you're not the only one who worries.

00:46:01.540 Go talk to the guys at the GM plant or any auto workers across this country, and they share

00:46:08.640 exactly that same concern.

00:46:11.360 I understand that because of the price point, people think, okay, well, this is an alternative.

00:46:20.340 But as you pointed out, Brian, the reason why these vehicles are sold at the price they are

00:46:25.500 is because the Chinese Communist Party subsidizes the manufacturing of these vehicles significantly.

00:46:31.440 Now, you also add on that these vehicles come with a completely distinct technology ecosystem

00:46:38.740 that they are part of, both in terms of their operations, their charging, all of that.

00:46:43.600 You are looking at a disruptive technology that we do not control, that we do not own.

00:46:49.820 And I will, this is a rarity, Brian, but I will give Premier Doug Ford credit

00:46:54.280 for pointing out the national security risks that come from bringing Chinese technology 0.99

00:47:00.500 into our country.

00:47:02.140 So this is a mess of a situation on the jobs front, the security front, the economics front.

00:47:09.040 And I will add to anyone championing this trade deal, why aren't we allowed to sell

00:47:15.380 an Oshawa-made Chevy Silverado in China?

00:47:20.040 I'm sure there would be a market for it.

00:47:21.800 If we were going to do, if we were going to do genuine reciprocity, why is it that they

00:47:27.320 get to sell cars in our country, but we can't sell cars in theirs?

00:47:31.220 Because it's, they understand the strategy here.

00:47:34.240 This is about disrupting an auto industry so that they can have a massive footprint in North

00:47:40.480 America.

00:47:41.300 And, uh, I don't like it.

00:47:43.820 I reject it.

00:47:44.920 If I ever have the opportunity to vote in opposition to this trade deal or God willing, serve in a

00:47:50.880 government that can reverse this agreement.

00:47:53.760 I long for the opportunity to do so.

00:47:56.700 Cause I think this is bad news for Canada.

00:47:59.760 All right.

00:48:00.040 Let's really shift gears and move away from trade from autos and talk about your project.

00:48:05.220 Restore the North.

00:48:06.900 Uh, you have noted that young men are struggling.

00:48:10.680 And for the longest time, the push was women are young girls are falling behind.

00:48:16.360 And it was right for us to, to lift them up, but things have changed and it would be wrong

00:48:22.040 to say, well, they're boys.

00:48:24.420 They're just, they're going to be fine.

00:48:25.620 Uh, you've looked at the stats.

00:48:28.420 Um, I've got some of them here in front of me from the letter that you sent to the prime minister.

00:48:32.480 Uh, I'll just rhyme off a couple.

00:48:34.320 I'll let you do the rest.

00:48:36.100 71% of opioid deaths in Canada, men.

00:48:39.400 Um, unemployment, uh, among young men reached 22% late last year.

00:48:45.060 Suicide rates, three times higher among men, substantially higher for boys in their teens

00:48:49.060 and twenties.

00:48:50.260 Then you've got the whole failure to launch.

00:48:53.600 People are not able to, um, form families, to buy homes because of economic reasons.

00:49:01.460 You look at, uh, people matching up, you know, whether it's marriage or dating, things are down.

00:49:08.680 This is very disruptive to society.

00:49:11.980 You're one of the only voices talking about this in Canada.

00:49:15.360 Canada, I've heard some people say these are crazy right-wing ideas, crazy right-wing talking

00:49:20.380 points.

00:49:20.860 To that, I would just say that the biggest advocate on this in the United States is a

00:49:25.220 liberal Democrat named Scott Galloway, a professor at NYU with several successful podcasts, including

00:49:31.160 one that just focuses on this.

00:49:32.920 This is a real issue across North America, isn't it?

00:49:35.700 That young men are failing to launch, struggling to find their feet.

00:49:41.320 Yeah.

00:49:42.120 Yeah.

00:49:42.380 It's, it's a, it's a very serious problem.

00:49:44.340 And, uh, you know, the, the stats you just read, Brian, all come from the government.

00:49:51.380 They come from government data.

00:49:53.780 They come from government reports.

00:49:55.940 So part of what we've been doing is pointing out that the government has all the information

00:50:02.180 required to make this case, to make the case that young men are disproportionately suffering

00:50:09.360 in this economy, young men are disproportionately suffering from mental health issues and addiction

00:50:15.900 issues.

00:50:16.700 The data is available to the government at their fingertips.

00:50:21.140 And yet they weren't doing anything about it.

00:50:24.500 And our point has been, you should do something about it.

00:50:28.520 All people in this country who suffer deserve help.

00:50:33.480 They deserve attention.

00:50:34.680 They deserve a plan to alleviate their suffering, whatever that plan might look like.

00:50:39.840 And we can debate what the plan should be, but we shouldn't have to debate that a plan

00:50:44.240 should exist.

00:50:45.380 And that has been our point.

00:50:47.340 Now, you're right.

00:50:48.600 We did receive a lot of pushback on this from people who wanted to present this as if it

00:50:53.840 was a zero sum game.

00:50:55.280 Like if you're talking about helping men, that means you don't want to help women, which 1.00

00:50:59.020 is ridiculous.

00:50:59.600 No one has ever made that argument that I'm aware of. 0.92

00:51:02.900 The argument we've been making is that everybody who needs help should get it.

00:51:06.620 And we have been proven correct because even the government has had to acknowledge we were

00:51:11.600 right.

00:51:12.040 You may have seen, Brian, that they have announced the Minister of Health has announced that they

00:51:16.660 are going to do a national strategy for men's and boys' health.

00:51:20.840 acknowledging that we were right, that it does require specific and targeted programs, funding

00:51:29.320 policies to help boys and young men, because boys and young men are different from girls

00:51:36.380 and young women.

00:51:37.580 Now, one of the reasons why it took so long for us to get this to this point is because

00:51:43.380 we have been blinded by this, you know, in my opinion, bizarre ideology that where we

00:51:50.980 were supposed to pretend men and women are the same and boys and girls are the same and

00:51:55.720 that you can switch around and change your programs.

00:51:59.180 This might shock you, but we interviewed a doctor on Full Comment a while ago who was telling

00:52:03.900 me, telling us about the push to stop treating men and women differently in health outcomes, even

00:52:10.880 though we've spent the last bunch of years realizing things like, well, women present a heart attack 0.89

00:52:16.880 differently than men, so we have to look for it differently and then we have to treat it 0.95

00:52:20.140 differently.

00:52:20.920 And that has led to improved health outcomes, but now the ideological push is, no, you cannot

00:52:27.000 treat them differently.

00:52:27.980 You have to treat them the same.

00:52:29.840 Yeah.

00:52:30.440 Well, which treatment do you use then?

00:52:33.160 Yeah, that's wacky stuff, right?

00:52:34.920 I mean, and this is the thing, it's like, we've been talking about this because we were trying

00:52:39.340 to bring a sense of reality back to the conversation.

00:52:42.720 Our objective is to help people and empower people to have good and healthy lives and being

00:52:48.320 preoccupied with ideology is not going to get us anywhere.

00:52:51.820 And as I said, the government is now acknowledging we were right.

00:52:55.660 So, you know, I got a phone call from the health minister yesterday to talk about this new

00:53:01.400 strategy.

00:53:02.120 I will do everything I possibly can to support her in putting the best strategy together possible

00:53:07.660 because this is not about ideology for us.

00:53:10.980 It's not about partisanship.

00:53:12.480 It's about results.

00:53:13.560 And that's what we want to see.

00:53:16.180 Now, part of what you've been doing is a campus tour.

00:53:19.240 Tell me about that.

00:53:20.840 What have you seen?

00:53:22.200 What have you experienced?

00:53:23.340 And where are you going next?

00:53:25.460 Well, we've predominantly been in Ontario.

00:53:28.660 We've also had a chance to visit Montreal and Alberta.

00:53:31.720 We will be doing several more provinces in March.

00:53:35.660 And our goal is before the end of this semester to hit all 10 provinces at least once.

00:53:41.080 So we've been very busy.

00:53:43.200 And it's been, you know, frankly, the highlight of my time as a member of parliament.

00:53:48.360 I love speaking to students.

00:53:50.120 I love hearing their perspective.

00:53:51.820 Um, you know, I think there was this kind of stereotype out there that students are super

00:53:58.160 left-wing and we're going to go there and we're getting yelling matches and, you know,

00:54:02.660 and it just hasn't been the case.

00:54:04.280 We do have disagreements and sometimes things do get combative, but the reality is most students

00:54:10.000 we meet are very practical.

00:54:11.800 They want to be able to get a job and have a life and a career and be successful.

00:54:16.680 And their interest in politics largely comes from wanting to understand how we can set

00:54:23.160 them up to live up to their potential.

00:54:25.220 So the conversations are great.

00:54:27.040 Um, you know, very rarely do we encounter people who think the status quo is working.

00:54:32.660 Sometimes they want changes to the left.

00:54:35.380 Sometimes they want changes to the right.

00:54:37.220 But I think we all agree that change is necessary.

00:54:40.120 And so it makes for a really future-oriented conversation.

00:54:44.080 And, uh, I love it.

00:54:45.240 We hear a lot about jobs, immigration, uh, you know, some people are frustrated with

00:54:50.920 the woke stuff on campus.

00:54:52.660 Some people frustrated with, um, a lack of opportunity, uh, wanting to see the, uh, you

00:54:58.900 know, the private sector growth, uh, receive the same, um, attention and prioritization as

00:55:05.200 public sector growth.

00:55:06.380 We get a lot of different, you know, angles on things, but I really enjoy it.

00:55:10.720 And I look forward to doing more of these.

00:55:12.120 And one of the coolest things, Brian is everywhere we've gone, there's always somebody from my

00:55:17.480 home community who is a student there or lives there who shows up.

00:55:22.100 And so I get to meet my own constituents everywhere I go, which is also pretty fun.

00:55:26.540 So.

00:55:26.780 Oh, that would be fun.

00:55:27.660 And you got to turn it around as you pointed out in your letter to PM, uh, National Bank

00:55:32.480 of Canada study was titled Canada, no country for young men.

00:55:35.900 We can't have that.

00:55:36.640 We, we need it to be a country for all young people and for them to thrive.

00:55:40.840 Um, you and, uh, my old friend, Shuv Loemijamder have been hitting the road in another way, talking

00:55:48.640 about liberal racism.

00:55:50.720 How dare you?

00:55:52.320 How dare you?

00:55:53.520 You're a conservative. 0.98

00:55:54.420 We know that conservatives are all about white supremacy and you and Shuv are obviously spreading 1.00

00:55:59.960 white supremacist talking, but I'm joking.

00:56:02.040 Of course, uh, what are, uh, what are you and Shuv doing out there?

00:56:05.600 Is this a comedy routine?

00:56:06.860 Uh, are you having fun pointing out that, um, you know, the folks that are, are supposed

00:56:11.920 to be trying to help everyone are actually racist.

00:56:14.040 What's this?

00:56:15.600 Well, the, the, the phraseable racism grew as a way to describe what, you know, past generations

00:56:22.860 understood as outright discrimination, which now have been repackaged as, you know, uh,

00:56:29.280 DEI or helping people or affirmative action or whatever you want to call it.

00:56:33.920 Um, you know, I am of the belief could call me old school, Brian, but like, I'm of the

00:56:38.760 belief that if you hire someone based on their race or fire someone based on their race, that's

00:56:44.620 racism.

00:56:45.040 And, you know, uh, that has been the definition of racism for most of the history of this country.

00:56:51.580 It is only recently where I, what I believe is old bigotries have been reintroduced to

00:56:58.380 public policy as something progressive.

00:57:01.040 I will never accept that as progressive.

00:57:03.000 I reject it outright.

00:57:04.700 And we think it's important to draw attention to that because, um, if we want to have a cohesive,

00:57:11.480 healthy, you know, identity in this country where people from all backgrounds and cultures and

00:57:17.880 linguistic groups, all feel like we are united under one flag, I don't think it should ever be

00:57:24.020 normal for the government to discriminate against people on the basis of their race.

00:57:28.340 So we call that liberal racism because, uh, frankly, it is racism that has been embraced by the

00:57:34.220 liberal party.

00:57:35.260 And, uh, I think I am an appropriate spokesman against liberal racism.

00:57:40.220 Given I did begin my, uh, career in politics being called a twofer by then prime minister

00:57:46.820 Justin Trudeau, I've encountered.

00:57:49.800 Yeah.

00:57:50.320 I don't know if you remember that, uh, hold.

00:57:52.320 I'd forgotten.

00:57:53.720 So why did he call you a twofer?

00:57:56.200 He just did a speech talking about my by-election where he just decided to call me a twofer,

00:58:00.960 which in the past has been a slur used against biracial people, uh, like myself.

00:58:07.400 Now, whether he intended to-

00:58:09.340 Your father's, your father's black, mother's white.

00:58:11.920 Yeah.

00:58:12.260 Yeah.

00:58:12.480 My dad's from Africa.

00:58:13.920 My mom's Irish Scottish.

00:58:15.780 Um, now whether he intended to mean it in that way, you know, I can't speak for him,

00:58:20.640 but certainly it got a strong reaction from people.

00:58:23.420 I forgot about that.

00:58:24.760 Yeah, I, I do believe that I have encountered this, um, attitude, uh, in the liberal party

00:58:32.600 continuously and continue to deal with it, um, as part, as in part of my career.

00:58:39.000 And I think it's important for, uh, for people to call it out.

00:58:42.300 You know, I think, um, when someone looks at you and says, Bill, because of what you look

00:58:48.260 like or where your parents come from, you could not be hired here, but I'm going to

00:58:54.380 be so generous and offer you this position because you need the extra charity.

00:58:59.440 I think that's a weird way to look at other human beings.

00:59:02.440 And I don't look at people that way and I don't want to be looked at that way.

00:59:05.940 Um, and that's one of the points we make because our hope is that one day, like all good causes,

00:59:13.140 we will be successful in overturning, uh, some of these racist policies in the federal

00:59:18.180 government.

00:59:19.240 You and I have known each other about seven years and I actually, I've never thought

00:59:23.440 about, do I call you a black man, a white man, a biracial man?

00:59:27.340 Like it's never come up.

00:59:28.580 It's just Jamil.

00:59:30.940 Uh, but, but I guess if you were to embrace your mother's Irish Scottish heritage and

00:59:35.680 identify as that, there are certain jobs that the federal government you couldn't apply

00:59:38.900 for.

00:59:39.760 Whereas if you embrace your father's, you can.

00:59:42.540 That's weird.

00:59:43.520 That is super weird.

00:59:44.660 Right.

00:59:45.140 I mean, my grandpa, Scottish guy, and my dad from Kenya, like two people in the same family

00:59:52.100 applying for a job from the government they both pay taxes to would be treated differently

00:59:57.780 by their own government.

00:59:58.780 That's a weird thing.

00:59:59.900 That's a weird thing.

01:00:00.880 And we don't think about it that way because we've been sort of presented this idea as

01:00:06.160 if it's so charitable and generous.

01:00:08.980 I don't think it is.

01:00:10.100 I think it's bad news and I can't wait till we overturn it.

01:00:14.040 Someone like Shuf, who I've worked with on foreign affairs issues since, uh, he was in

01:00:18.960 Iraq and Afghanistan helping set up democracies 20 years ago.

01:00:23.100 Um, one of the smartest guys I know in that field, I can't imagine him finding out that

01:00:28.340 he got a job with the federal government because his family's from Bangladesh and he's brown.

01:00:33.120 I think he would, he would absolutely loathe that idea because he should get it on his skills.

01:00:39.320 And, and I really believe that the majority of people from different racial and cultural

01:00:45.620 backgrounds feel the exact same way.

01:00:48.160 If you tell most people that they didn't earn something, that it's not because of their

01:00:53.400 talents and abilities, but because someone has decided to put them in an identity box,

01:00:58.020 that they got an opportunity.

01:00:59.580 Most people don't want to be told that.

01:01:01.900 No, most people don't think that's good.

01:01:03.760 People want to be respected, right?

01:01:06.020 As individuals respected for their education and their expertise.

01:01:10.140 And I think that's what a fair meritocratic society looks like.

01:01:14.560 All right.

01:01:15.160 We'll end on this early election.

01:01:16.800 Um, it was all the talk of, uh, the, uh, conservative convention.

01:01:22.920 Um, I know as the, you and I were in Calgary for the conservative convention, there were apparently

01:01:27.980 talks in Ottawa at the first ministers meetings, all the premiers and the PM talking about,

01:01:32.200 is there going to be an early election?

01:01:33.980 We were all talking about it in Calgary.

01:01:36.380 I think the liberals have set the table to call one if they want to, but not necessarily

01:01:42.900 to call one.

01:01:44.240 What is your thinking on that?

01:01:46.600 Are you getting sign crews going in, uh, Bowmanville, uh, Oshawa North?

01:01:51.780 Well, you know, we, we routinely, you know, knock doors here so we can be in touch with

01:01:56.780 our, uh, constituents.

01:01:57.900 So I, I'm, I'm, I'm ready whenever they want to go and I look forward to it, uh, whenever

01:02:03.280 they decide to do it.

01:02:04.760 I personally would rather not have one right now because I think we need to do some work.

01:02:10.080 Like I, elections are these huge distractions that take MPs away from doing their jobs.

01:02:16.680 And I would like to do my job for a little bit longer, at least give me a little bit more

01:02:21.380 time before we go back to the ballot box.

01:02:25.100 Um, just because there's really serious things that need our attention.

01:02:28.360 And I, I really believe that if Canadians are told between now and July 1st, that there's

01:02:34.520 going to be an election, but we have not gotten a trade deal done.

01:02:38.040 I think that should be a huge red flag because we should be using every minute we have every

01:02:43.680 day that we have here to get this sorted out.

01:02:46.360 And the prospect of suspending a really important effort to bring certainty to our economy so

01:02:53.900 that we can, um, go back to the polls.

01:02:56.460 I think that's a, I just don't think that's a great idea.

01:02:58.720 So I would like more time.

01:03:00.420 But you're, you're in Ottawa talking to liberal MPs.

01:03:03.260 What's the sense you get?

01:03:04.360 Do you think that they are itching to go to try and get that coveted majority that they

01:03:08.880 couldn't get through floor crossers? 1.00

01:03:11.940 I'll be honest.

01:03:12.820 I don't know.

01:03:13.600 Like I, I, the one, the, the liberal MPs I talked to, we mostly focus on the work that

01:03:19.700 we have to do.

01:03:20.780 I'm sure there's a whole bunch who are, you know, focused on elections, but I just couldn't

01:03:25.980 tell you what they think.

01:03:26.840 I don't know.

01:03:27.700 At the end of the day, it'll be one man's decision, right? 0.95

01:03:29.880 It'll be the prime minister's.

01:03:31.480 And, uh, I haven't had the chance to meet with him.

01:03:33.740 So I don't know where, where his head is at.

01:03:35.860 Um, but if you did meet with them, you'd rather talk to him about your trip to Washington

01:03:39.560 and give him a briefing on that.

01:03:41.580 Exactly.

01:03:41.940 And hope that we could, uh, both be really excited about trying to get this done and

01:03:46.740 less focused on another election.

01:03:49.420 All right.

01:03:49.960 And with that, we will leave it there.

01:03:51.620 Jamil Javani, thanks so much for the time today.

01:03:54.220 Thank you, Brian.

01:03:55.040 Appreciate you, man.

01:03:56.320 Full Comment is a post-media podcast.

01:03:58.460 My name's Brian Lilly, your host.

01:03:59.840 This episode was produced by Andre Pru, theme music by Bryce Hall.

01:04:03.720 Kevin Libin is the executive producer.

01:04:05.660 Please hit the subscribe button.

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01:04:13.260 Until next time, I'm Brian Lilly.

01:04:14.780 There were so many missed opportunities to catch this before the devastating thing happened.

01:04:27.960 A third of them we found literally in the phone book.

01:04:31.460 These people were not afraid.

01:04:33.620 They knew that nobody was effectively hunting them.

01:04:36.340 They knew they had escaped justice, that they were going to die in their beds.

01:04:40.640 When I give talks at law schools, it's that the Charter ultimately is empowering a minority.

01:04:44.620 And it's empowering a minority that's a guild across the country.

01:04:47.600 And it's a fairly elite guild.

01:04:48.700 And the guild is lawyers.

01:04:49.620 Families who were split by referendum and brothers and sisters who never talked to each

01:04:55.940 other for years after the referendum because they were so angry at each other because of

01:05:00.400 the emotions on both sides.

01:05:02.260 The reason he was assassinated was not because he was trying to put a satellite into space,

01:05:07.060 but because the gun that he was creating had other applications that made him and the

01:05:15.440 gun very dangerous.

01:05:17.360 It's finally here.

01:05:18.920 A new season of Canada Did What?

01:05:21.260 Host media podcast that revisits the big Canadian political events you might think you remember

01:05:26.660 and tells you the real story you never knew.

01:05:29.840 I'm Tristan Hopper.

01:05:30.920 The voices you just heard are from our brand new season two.

01:05:35.140 We will unpack some of the pivotal moments that helped define our country, often without

01:05:39.380 a vote, usually without a plan, and sometimes without anyone admitting what they've done.

01:05:45.180 We'll find out how Canada became a welcoming paradise for untold numbers of Nazi war criminals 0.96

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01:05:52.460 We let them build monuments to their wartime exploits and even ended up honoring a Nazi 0.58

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01:06:15.880 You'll hear the behind-the-scenes story of Quebec's attempted secession from Canada and how

01:06:20.560 very close we came to a political crisis that would have made Brexit look like a picnic.

01:06:26.240 You'll hear about how the much-celebrated Charter of Rights and Freedoms turned into something

01:06:30.940 its creators never wanted, and how many of the most extravagant warnings about the document

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Full Comment - February 16, 2026

Why are Liberals attacking efforts to end Trump’s tariff war？

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