Full Comment - February 10, 2025


Why Trump isn’t just joking about taking over Canada anymore


Episode Stats


Length

29 minutes

Words per minute

169.31802

Word count

5,045

Sentence count

345

Harmful content

Misogyny

1

sentences flagged

Toxicity

4

sentences flagged

Hate speech

22

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Trump's latest tariffs have the markets on edge and the Dow Jones and S&P 500 hitting new records. Is this a temporary reprieve from the worst week of the year? Or is this the beginning of a permanent trade war with other countries?

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
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00:01:44.900 Trying to keep up with the news, trying to stay current in the age of Trump is not an easy task.
00:02:07.920 The man has a new plan, a new announcement every day, sometimes more than one per day.
00:02:12.420 Hello and welcome to the Full Comment Podcast. I'm Brian Lilly, your host.
00:02:16.180 A week ago, we were supposed to be hit hard with 25% tariffs over what the Trump White House calls concerns about the border.
00:02:22.660 Illegal migration, fentanyl smuggling, and then suddenly, after a revised package of measures was presented by Prime Minister Justin Trudeau,
00:02:30.940 and after the stock market took a hit, Donald Trump backed off.
00:02:34.460 He gave us a reprieve of at least 30 days.
00:02:38.340 That's not saying they're going away, but they're at least not there yet.
00:02:42.420 Now, there was a second set of tariffs that would possibly come in April after a study by the American Commerce Department.
00:02:48.880 These were most likely going to be smaller sector-by-sector tariffs on countries and products
00:02:53.280 where the Trump administration feels that other countries, not just Canada, aren't being fair.
00:02:58.860 Then, out of nowhere on Friday, while visiting with the Japanese Prime Minister,
00:03:03.600 Trump said there would be reciprocal tariffs coming next week, and they'll be coming for everyone.
00:03:08.120 I'll be announcing that next week, reciprocal trade, so that we're treated evenly with other countries.
00:03:14.160 We don't want any more or any less, so I'll be announcing that next week.
00:03:19.880 And many other things having to do, not even with trade, but other things.
00:03:24.180 But I'll be talking about reciprocal trade sometime next week.
00:03:27.640 We'll have a news conference and we'll lay it out.
00:03:30.140 Pretty simple.
00:03:30.920 Like I said, it's tough to keep up with Donald Trump and sometimes to know exactly what he means or what he wants.
00:03:37.500 Perhaps that's all part of the plan.
00:03:39.500 Remember the joke about Trump wanting to make Canada the 51st state?
00:03:43.520 Well, I've been saying for a while now that I didn't think Trump was joking anymore.
00:03:47.820 Now, Justin Trudeau has said as much.
00:03:49.800 Speaking to the economic forum he drew together in Toronto on Friday,
00:03:53.240 Trudeau was heard saying on a hot mic that Trump's 51st state comments are serious.
00:03:57.940 But Mr. Trump has it in mind that one of the easiest ways of doing that is, you know,
00:04:04.300 because he would solve our country and it is a real thing in my conversation with him on...
00:04:11.680 Something tells me those were comments that Trudeau wanted to leak out.
00:04:15.200 In my view, this was planned and now he can try and rally the nation behind him.
00:04:20.080 How to figure all of this out?
00:04:21.360 Well, at least the Trump part, where he's coming from.
00:04:24.260 Joel Pollack is a man who understands Donald Trump well.
00:04:26.940 He's written several books about Trump, including the recent one,
00:04:30.100 The Agenda, What Trump Should Do in His First 100 Days.
00:04:33.160 He's also the editor-in-chief at Breitbart News.
00:04:36.120 Joel Pollack, join me in conversation from Los Angeles to try and help us understand Trump world.
00:04:42.160 So, Joel, you're a big supporter of Donald Trump.
00:04:44.680 You wrote the book, The Agenda, What He Should Be Doing.
00:04:47.400 I didn't notice tariffs on Canada in your book.
00:04:50.980 What's happening?
00:04:51.880 Well, I did actually talk about using tariffs as a diplomatic tool.
00:04:59.660 And I'm generally a free trader, but Trump showed in his first term that tariffs can actually be
00:05:06.440 a very useful weapon that is non-military,
00:05:11.220 that you can use to achieve foreign policy outcomes.
00:05:15.860 And he's done that again, and he's using it with other countries as well.
00:05:20.480 So, I think that's the spirit in which he's doing it.
00:05:23.880 And I did mention that in my report.
00:05:27.500 Mostly with Canada, you were talking about,
00:05:29.500 let's partner with them to get that sweet oil down there. 1.00
00:05:34.340 Yeah.
00:05:34.620 And I didn't have TakeOver Canada on my bingo card either.
00:05:38.740 But you know what?
00:05:40.000 If it was good enough for James Madison to try over 200 years ago, it's good enough for me.
00:05:45.660 Okay.
00:05:46.320 So, we've played the leak audio off the top of, and I say leaked in quotation marks.
00:05:53.600 You know, the prime minister has been in power for nine years,
00:05:57.160 and I never remember him having a hot mic moment like this.
00:06:01.460 So, he clearly wanted this out there, but talking about how...
00:06:06.160 Wait a minute.
00:06:06.820 Wait a minute.
00:06:07.400 He wanted to be caught on a hot mic saying this?
00:06:09.880 Oh, yes.
00:06:10.640 Yes.
00:06:11.000 I absolutely believe that.
00:06:12.720 So, he wanted it out there that Trump is serious about wanting to take over Canada.
00:06:17.640 When you first heard Trump talking about that at the beginning of December,
00:06:21.920 did you think that that was serious, or did you think he was trolling Justin Trudeau,
00:06:26.740 who had not yet announced that he was going to resign?
00:06:28.980 So, let me respond, first of all, to Trudeau doing it on purpose.
00:06:36.000 There's actually some wisdom to that.
00:06:40.420 It sounds like it's incompetence, but if he did it on purpose,
00:06:44.920 and again, I don't want to give him credit for doing it,
00:06:46.820 because he has been caught on hot mics before talking about Trump and not on purpose.
00:06:51.280 But the reason to do it on purpose is a negotiation technique called tying your own hands.
00:06:59.180 So, there are different reasons negotiators might want to make it clear that they have no flexibility.
00:07:04.800 When you go into a negotiation with someone who's opposed to your interests,
00:07:11.200 sometimes you want to make it clear that you have no alternatives,
00:07:14.700 that the offer you're making is a final offer, your hands are tied.
00:07:18.480 If you brought back a different offer to the people who are paying you or the people you represent, 0.99
00:07:22.400 they would kill you or fire you or whatever.
00:07:24.060 So, it's a way of gaining leverage with an opponent.
00:07:28.240 It's also a way, if you do have to bring a bad offer back to your constituency,
00:07:33.820 it's a way of telling them,
00:07:35.900 listen, I had no alternative, this is what I had to do.
00:07:39.100 So, it looks like Trudeau is trying to sell his concessions to Trump to the Canadian public
00:07:46.500 by saying, I had no idea, he's really scary, he wants to take over Canada,
00:07:53.100 we're going to have to delete all the U's out of our words,
00:07:57.160 you know, like, color will just be C-O-L-O-R.
00:08:00.660 I mean, that's very scary.
00:08:03.500 So, you know, favor, F-A-B-O-R. 1.00
00:08:07.020 So, anyway, we're not going to be able to,
00:08:09.320 anyway, I could go on with the jokes,
00:08:11.220 but, you know, look, there's some wisdom to it.
00:08:13.940 Now, was Trump serious?
00:08:17.240 The answer is yes.
00:08:19.420 The answer is yes.
00:08:20.800 You think even back in late November, early December,
00:08:24.140 when this started, that he was serious?
00:08:26.280 Because I thought he was just,
00:08:27.840 you guys at Breitbart have had a lot of fun picking on Justin Trudeau.
00:08:31.420 And so I thought, you know, okay,
00:08:33.760 everyone on the right in the United States loves mocking Trudeau,
00:08:37.080 he's pretty boy, he's sock boy,
00:08:38.980 you know, this will just tease him.
00:08:41.260 That's what I thought Trump was doing.
00:08:42.640 I think he's serious now, but I didn't then.
00:08:46.460 Well, look, I'm going to give you another little clue
00:08:49.140 as to how Donald Trump thinks.
00:08:51.440 Donald Trump never proposes something
00:08:53.120 that someone else didn't already propose.
00:08:55.760 And I don't mean James Madison.
00:08:58.480 But a few years ago,
00:08:59.860 when there was a serious threat
00:09:02.420 of the separation of Quebec from the rest of Canada,
00:09:07.200 the eastern provinces of Canada said that
00:09:09.500 if that happened, they would secede from Canada
00:09:11.340 and join the United States.
00:09:13.040 So it's not like he came up with the idea out of thin air
00:09:15.520 that there would be at least parts of Canada
00:09:17.800 that could become American states.
00:09:22.140 So it is trolling.
00:09:24.180 And the way he did it was humorous.
00:09:26.500 And he said that Justin Trudeau could be the governor of Canada
00:09:29.780 and that the best way to avoid the tariff issue
00:09:31.680 would just be to join the United States,
00:09:33.620 then there's no tariffs.
00:09:35.040 You know, by the way, under our constitution,
00:09:36.480 we have no tariffs.
00:09:37.440 One state cannot put tariffs on another.
00:09:39.880 But I do think there's an element of it that's serious,
00:09:44.180 which is to say there is some precedent for this.
00:09:47.740 Trump knows it, or at least heard about it.
00:09:50.740 And that's why this is a credible threat.
00:09:54.380 Now, did Trudeau think it was a credible threat?
00:09:56.500 I don't know.
00:09:57.040 I can tell you just as a student of history
00:09:58.800 that the history of American attempts to take over Canada
00:10:03.600 is littered with failure.
00:10:07.440 I mean, James Madison is one of my favorite presidents,
00:10:09.560 but he really made a huge strategic miscalculation
00:10:13.040 in the War of 1812.
00:10:14.640 Ultimately, the United States won the war,
00:10:17.600 but the part of the war that was fought in Canada
00:10:20.360 around the Great Lakes and so forth,
00:10:23.060 Canada won that part decisively.
00:10:25.200 So again, it was under British rule.
00:10:27.680 So a little bit different,
00:10:29.660 but essentially my Canadian relatives
00:10:31.800 have long reminded me that Canada
00:10:33.820 essentially won the War of 1812.
00:10:36.360 And that's true.
00:10:37.540 American ambitions for more colonial possessions
00:10:42.640 north of the current border
00:10:44.260 have never really ended well.
00:10:45.760 So I don't know that it would work out well for us.
00:10:48.960 And Canada is a very big country
00:10:50.960 with a lot of different environments
00:10:53.760 that make it difficult for even Canada
00:10:56.720 to govern Canada.
00:10:57.520 But I do think that with regard
00:10:59.740 to some of the eastern provinces
00:11:01.000 on the Atlantic side,
00:11:04.100 Nova Scotia, et cetera,
00:11:06.160 I mean, I think there could be
00:11:08.400 some reality to the threat.
00:11:12.780 In terms of tariffs, though,
00:11:15.460 as a means to an end,
00:11:19.400 he's kind of played two different games with Canada,
00:11:22.780 and then this third one with Europe
00:11:24.260 and everyone else on Friday
00:11:26.780 when he announced tariffs for everyone
00:11:28.860 while the Japanese prime minister was visiting.
00:11:31.920 Hey, look, that got immediate reaction.
00:11:33.760 The EU said that they would drop their tariffs
00:11:36.300 on American cars.
00:11:37.680 Right now it's 2.5% tariff on a European car.
00:11:41.940 Let's say you get a Beamer made in Germany 1.00
00:11:44.480 and you get it shipped over to the States.
00:11:45.940 There's a 2.5% tariff on it.
00:11:47.800 But if you want an F-150,
00:11:49.780 there's a 10% tariff on it
00:11:51.280 if you get it shipped to Germany.
00:11:53.960 And he has long said that this is a problem.
00:11:57.640 My understanding is that you right away said,
00:11:59.980 oh, yeah, we'll fix that. 0.99
00:12:01.560 So, I mean, it's a big swinging dick move 0.91
00:12:04.780 and it annoys a lot of people, 0.99
00:12:07.240 but it's working, isn't it?
00:12:09.080 It does work because with Donald Trump,
00:12:13.820 you don't know if he's going to follow through or not.
00:12:15.760 And sometimes he does follow through.
00:12:18.200 And likewise with the plan to take over Gaza.
00:12:22.100 I mean, people fell out of their chairs
00:12:24.100 at the press conference
00:12:24.880 when he said the United States is going to own Gaza.
00:12:27.580 But he could be serious.
00:12:29.420 And actually, it wouldn't be that hard to do.
00:12:32.060 People say, well, what about Iraq?
00:12:33.960 What about terrorism?
00:12:35.040 American soldiers would be getting shot at,
00:12:37.700 bombed and all that,
00:12:38.400 just like Israeli soldiers 0.76
00:12:39.580 are getting shot at and bombed.
00:12:40.680 And that's true,
00:12:41.840 except Gaza is actually a very small area
00:12:43.740 where Israel's done most of the fighting already.
00:12:46.380 And if you have the United States coming in,
00:12:48.320 the U.S. is much less constrained than Israel
00:12:50.560 in how it deals with these conflicts.
00:12:53.760 Israel's a small state 0.93
00:12:54.960 currently dependent on the United States,
00:12:58.380 not to do the fighting,
00:12:59.280 but at least to supply the weapons.
00:13:01.600 And that means that Israel had to yield 0.93
00:13:04.740 to what the Biden administration wanted it to do.
00:13:06.580 It had to be very careful
00:13:07.600 about rules of engagement.
00:13:09.300 It's not really the case with the United States.
00:13:11.280 I mean, there are complaints
00:13:12.500 and there were complaints in Afghanistan and Iraq
00:13:15.400 by human rights groups and so forth,
00:13:17.340 but they just don't go anywhere
00:13:18.740 when you're dealing with the world superpower.
00:13:21.540 And so I think that having the United States
00:13:24.400 in charge of Gaza might actually make sense.
00:13:27.620 And even if it doesn't make sense,
00:13:30.380 Trump, by showing interest in Gaza,
00:13:32.780 highlighted its value.
00:13:33.980 We treat it as a kind of impoverished hellhole,
00:13:37.860 which it is in many ways.
00:13:39.300 But once someone says,
00:13:40.760 hey, wait a minute,
00:13:41.360 there are nice beaches there.
00:13:42.900 It's in a strategic location.
00:13:44.540 It's next to one of the world's
00:13:46.160 most dynamic economies, Israel.
00:13:47.980 I mean, there is some strategic value in having it.
00:13:50.880 It's like when you see a real estate investor
00:13:52.920 suddenly take interest in an empty lot,
00:13:54.820 the price of the lot goes up,
00:13:56.080 even if nothing's been built.
00:13:57.660 So that's what Trump did.
00:13:59.900 He basically raised the value of Gaza 0.91
00:14:01.580 simply by saying he wanted to own it.
00:14:03.600 And I think the idea is to entice
00:14:05.140 other Arab countries to finally do something
00:14:07.540 for the Palestinians,
00:14:09.360 finally do something to solve the problem.
00:14:10.840 Try and get Saudi Arabia in there. 0.88
00:14:13.320 Yeah, but if that doesn't work,
00:14:15.660 he could very well take it.
00:14:16.820 And you know what?
00:14:17.420 It's not the worst thing in the world
00:14:18.920 because it is on the Mediterranean.
00:14:22.260 It does have a lot of potential
00:14:24.160 if you clean it up.
00:14:25.540 It could be the Dubai of the West,
00:14:27.700 the Dubai in the western part of the Middle East,
00:14:30.500 Dubai on the Mediterranean.
00:14:32.360 Yeah.
00:14:33.440 You know, when I was in Israel,
00:14:34.820 I just kept hearing that.
00:14:36.600 And sadly, instead,
00:14:38.280 you get a lot of fighting, death and destruction.
00:14:42.220 I did not expect all of these things.
00:14:47.400 And this is part of why I wanted to talk to you.
00:14:49.900 This is not what I expected
00:14:51.280 for the first three weeks
00:14:52.240 of the second Trump administration.
00:14:54.640 I expected him to go hard,
00:14:56.440 to go fast,
00:14:57.300 to use a lot of executive orders,
00:14:58.780 which he's doing.
00:15:02.220 But, you know,
00:15:03.800 the way it was described to me
00:15:05.580 by an American civil servant
00:15:10.280 I was talking to,
00:15:11.000 he said,
00:15:11.580 he's basically keeping everyone off balance
00:15:14.320 so that he can move the ball
00:15:16.200 as far down the field as he can
00:15:17.780 before anyone wakes up
00:15:20.060 and tries to stop him,
00:15:21.100 either whether it's Congress or the courts.
00:15:23.100 He has no opposition
00:15:24.040 because nobody can get their balance
00:15:25.560 with one crazy announcement after another.
00:15:28.880 Like, I mean, the Gaza thing.
00:15:29.900 What?
00:15:30.380 Where did that come from?
00:15:32.540 He opened up by talking about,
00:15:35.140 during the campaign,
00:15:36.000 maybe 10% tariffs on Canada.
00:15:38.400 It's before inauguration,
00:15:39.900 but after he'd already won,
00:15:41.420 he said,
00:15:41.720 no, it's going to be 25%
00:15:43.020 if you don't fix your border.
00:15:44.280 That wasn't even being discussed.
00:15:46.200 That wasn't in Project 2025.
00:15:48.060 That wasn't in the campaign promises.
00:15:49.660 It's just something new all the time.
00:15:52.740 And in many ways,
00:15:54.880 it does seem to be working,
00:15:56.060 keeping everyone on their toes.
00:15:59.060 It does work,
00:15:59.800 which is why he does it.
00:16:00.660 But there's also a reason
00:16:01.920 that he's doing it,
00:16:03.840 which I talked about in my book as well.
00:16:05.880 And that reason is that
00:16:07.520 Democrats in Trump's first term
00:16:10.200 were able to tie up
00:16:12.060 Trump policies
00:16:13.660 by suing in the courts
00:16:15.760 and getting these nationwide injunctions
00:16:17.460 from individual federal judges
00:16:19.800 in friendly jurisdictions
00:16:20.820 like Washington State
00:16:22.340 and California
00:16:23.060 and Oregon and Hawaii.
00:16:24.880 And Trump knew that this time
00:16:26.860 he had to overwhelm
00:16:28.060 that opposition.
00:16:29.800 He had to overwhelm
00:16:30.500 what we call lawfare
00:16:31.420 by proposing so many actions at once
00:16:34.880 that even if they tried to sue,
00:16:37.440 the sheer expense of filing
00:16:39.280 hundreds of lawsuits
00:16:40.580 would be too much
00:16:42.420 and would increase the chances
00:16:44.320 that at least some of his policies
00:16:46.300 would survive these attempts
00:16:48.740 by Democrats
00:16:49.480 to bog them down in the courts.
00:16:51.300 So there is a strategy to it,
00:16:52.860 which is not just about
00:16:53.820 distracting people
00:16:54.720 or moving the ball downfield.
00:16:56.160 It's also about overwhelming
00:16:57.780 the opposition
00:16:59.480 so that he can actually
00:17:00.620 govern this time.
00:17:03.040 We need to take a quick ad break,
00:17:04.420 but when we come back,
00:17:05.160 I want to ask you more
00:17:05.880 about what is on Trump's agenda.
00:17:07.700 Back in moments.
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00:17:21.780 Scotiabank.
00:17:22.460 You're richer than you think.
00:17:24.340 Joel, we're still pretty much
00:17:26.320 in shock and awe
00:17:27.560 up here in Canada
00:17:28.720 about the whole tariff issue.
00:17:30.980 There's the 25% 1.00
00:17:32.360 which Howard Lutnik
00:17:33.640 and Ken Haslett
00:17:34.980 and everybody else says,
00:17:37.120 oh, that's just aimed
00:17:37.880 at the border,
00:17:38.460 but Peter Navarro says that.
00:17:40.060 Deal with the fentanyl crisis.
00:17:41.620 Our government is in denial
00:17:42.820 that Canada has anything
00:17:43.940 to do with it.
00:17:45.140 In fact,
00:17:45.720 they keep using different numbers
00:17:47.000 than custom border and patrol
00:17:49.000 and what Tom Homan uses,
00:17:51.060 which I'm not sure is smart.
00:17:52.620 I think it'll just annoy them more.
00:17:55.540 But they've proposed something
00:17:58.000 and then when that wasn't good enough,
00:17:59.940 they proposed more,
00:18:00.800 including tackling issues
00:18:03.500 around money laundering
00:18:04.520 for the cartels.
00:18:06.240 But those sectoral tariffs,
00:18:10.540 is Trump a believer in free trade?
00:18:13.640 Is the Republican Party
00:18:15.420 a believer in free trade anymore?
00:18:16.960 Because there was a time
00:18:18.320 when you and I
00:18:19.860 would have been aligned
00:18:20.720 on free trade,
00:18:21.560 when anybody running
00:18:22.880 under the Republican banner
00:18:24.120 would have been aligned
00:18:24.880 on free trade.
00:18:25.620 It seems like there's
00:18:26.600 a complete shift
00:18:28.200 in Washington
00:18:29.020 and in the GOP.
00:18:32.640 I don't think there's a shift.
00:18:33.900 I just think that
00:18:34.500 the circumstances are different.
00:18:36.060 And the circumstance
00:18:36.680 that we're all dealing with,
00:18:37.920 including Canada,
00:18:38.780 is that China has exploited
00:18:41.040 the rules of free trade
00:18:42.180 to destroy foreign industries 0.82
00:18:45.040 and to do so strategically
00:18:48.180 and to choke off strategic points
00:18:51.760 in the economy
00:18:52.520 and in world trade.
00:18:55.280 So you're not seeing
00:18:57.500 an abandonment of the idea
00:18:59.160 of free trade
00:19:00.380 and the economics of free trade,
00:19:02.720 but you're seeing
00:19:03.260 an acknowledgement that
00:19:04.240 when one major actor
00:19:06.980 in the free trade system,
00:19:08.060 and they were admitted
00:19:09.020 25 years ago,
00:19:10.440 China was, 0.90
00:19:10.920 to the World Trade Organization,
00:19:12.360 when one player decides
00:19:13.820 to exploit the rules
00:19:16.580 in ways that damage
00:19:19.480 all of the other players
00:19:20.860 economically,
00:19:21.700 then people are going
00:19:23.580 to reevaluate.
00:19:24.540 So in theory, yes,
00:19:25.980 free trade is good,
00:19:27.260 but not if one major player
00:19:30.700 is cheating
00:19:31.420 and then people have
00:19:32.740 to protect their economies,
00:19:34.440 they have to protect
00:19:34.980 their sovereignty,
00:19:35.700 they have to protect workers
00:19:36.760 and other interests,
00:19:38.160 and that's what you're seeing.
00:19:39.680 So until there's a solution
00:19:41.460 for the problem
00:19:42.260 that China poses 1.00
00:19:43.580 to the global economic system,
00:19:45.840 then you are going
00:19:47.140 to see people
00:19:47.800 more enthusiastic
00:19:48.900 about protections
00:19:50.840 for industry
00:19:51.420 than they are
00:19:51.840 for freedom of trade.
00:19:52.700 Well, that's why
00:19:55.780 I believe in free trade
00:19:56.700 between similar economies
00:19:57.960 such as Canada
00:19:59.040 and the United States.
00:20:01.140 Adding in Mexico
00:20:02.520 to NAFTA
00:20:03.320 kind of altered that.
00:20:04.900 Adding China 0.83
00:20:05.520 into the WTO
00:20:07.160 definitely altered that.
00:20:09.360 They don't follow the rules.
00:20:11.140 It's not a level playing field
00:20:12.480 in terms of
00:20:13.320 labor standards,
00:20:14.940 environmental standards,
00:20:16.020 any standards.
00:20:17.080 Talk to people
00:20:17.760 who have managed
00:20:18.280 big projects in China
00:20:19.560 from a Western standpoint.
00:20:22.240 And I remember
00:20:23.120 one guy telling me
00:20:23.980 he shows up
00:20:24.500 at the job site
00:20:25.140 and they said,
00:20:26.040 oh, yeah,
00:20:26.820 there was a death.
00:20:27.440 Don't worry.
00:20:27.880 We didn't lose any time.
00:20:28.880 We just pushed
00:20:29.660 the body aside.
00:20:31.080 That was a construction project.
00:20:32.860 I mean,
00:20:33.060 it's a very different
00:20:34.560 set of rules
00:20:36.820 that China plays by
00:20:37.940 on every front.
00:20:40.140 But, you know,
00:20:41.800 we've expanded free trade.
00:20:44.000 Look at the
00:20:44.840 Trans-Pacific Partnership.
00:20:46.480 What did you guys
00:20:47.260 call that at Breitbart
00:20:48.140 for the longest time?
00:20:48.900 Obama trade?
00:20:49.560 Or something like that?
00:20:51.140 You put it off on them.
00:20:53.140 We're trading with countries
00:20:54.860 that, beyond China,
00:20:56.680 you know,
00:20:56.880 Vietnam doesn't have
00:20:57.660 the same standards.
00:20:58.680 And we've opened up
00:20:59.900 our markets
00:21:00.400 to products
00:21:01.760 from around the world
00:21:02.560 that will undercut us.
00:21:05.740 Right.
00:21:06.360 Well,
00:21:07.380 we have to look at that.
00:21:08.760 I think the problem
00:21:09.440 with the Trans-Pacific Partnership
00:21:10.700 was similar to the problem
00:21:12.780 with USAID,
00:21:14.160 if you've been following
00:21:14.760 that story,
00:21:16.380 which is that
00:21:17.120 there are some arrangements
00:21:19.680 that sound nice
00:21:20.500 in theory
00:21:21.020 but are so controlled
00:21:22.560 by Washington
00:21:24.580 and special interest groups
00:21:26.080 in Washington,
00:21:27.180 that the public feels
00:21:28.020 it has no way
00:21:29.160 of understanding
00:21:31.300 what's going on
00:21:32.140 or holding anybody
00:21:32.940 accountable for what
00:21:33.960 they're supposed
00:21:34.500 to be doing.
00:21:35.700 With USAID,
00:21:36.700 there are all kinds
00:21:37.420 of projects
00:21:38.040 that sound nice
00:21:38.860 and those are the ones
00:21:39.560 Democrats want to talk about,
00:21:40.680 but the reality is
00:21:41.700 that USAID
00:21:42.940 is also funneling money
00:21:44.080 to a lot of
00:21:44.620 very dubious things
00:21:45.640 and a lot of
00:21:47.780 Beltway organizations.
00:21:48.940 Some of that
00:21:49.220 Washington money
00:21:50.720 never even leaves
00:21:51.440 Washington
00:21:51.880 to go overseas
00:21:53.040 to help struggling
00:21:54.680 third world countries
00:21:55.920 or whatever.
00:21:57.060 And so,
00:21:57.660 it's the same
00:21:58.580 with the
00:21:59.280 Trans-Pacific Partnership.
00:22:00.980 People felt like
00:22:01.780 this was being negotiated
00:22:02.780 at a remove
00:22:03.560 from the public,
00:22:05.000 that it came
00:22:06.000 on the heels
00:22:07.540 of other trade agreements
00:22:08.500 that hadn't worked out
00:22:09.400 so well,
00:22:09.840 that were still
00:22:10.380 being criticized,
00:22:12.040 that needed to be revised,
00:22:13.380 and yet there was
00:22:14.540 this rush to push it through.
00:22:15.780 Now,
00:22:16.100 I think the idea
00:22:17.160 of the Trans-Pacific Partnership
00:22:18.100 is good because
00:22:18.840 ultimately you need
00:22:20.800 a free trade alliance
00:22:23.940 outside of China.
00:22:25.240 The point of TPP
00:22:26.280 would have been
00:22:27.640 to protect
00:22:29.220 the industrial world
00:22:32.140 or the partners
00:22:33.140 to TPP
00:22:33.680 from having to
00:22:36.040 submit to these
00:22:36.860 Chinese dictates 0.99
00:22:37.820 on trade.
00:22:39.400 And I think
00:22:40.200 that's a nice idea
00:22:40.880 in theory,
00:22:41.520 but the fear
00:22:42.680 was that
00:22:43.220 the people
00:22:43.880 putting this
00:22:44.360 trade deal together
00:22:45.320 were basically
00:22:45.820 going to line
00:22:46.360 their pockets
00:22:47.020 without providing
00:22:49.020 the promised benefit
00:22:50.080 of protection
00:22:51.380 from China.
00:22:52.380 I mean,
00:22:52.680 what did TPP
00:22:53.900 really do
00:22:54.700 to make sure
00:22:55.640 that China 0.93
00:22:56.280 would not
00:22:57.720 exploit the system
00:22:58.840 further?
00:23:00.720 And,
00:23:01.300 you know,
00:23:02.660 look at
00:23:02.960 a free trade agreement
00:23:03.780 we have with
00:23:04.280 several African countries,
00:23:05.500 AGOA,
00:23:05.800 the Africa Growth
00:23:06.440 and Opportunity Act.
00:23:07.180 Well,
00:23:08.960 there are factories
00:23:09.800 in Africa
00:23:10.300 that are selling
00:23:10.980 to the U.S.
00:23:12.140 market because
00:23:12.740 of that act,
00:23:14.400 but at the same time
00:23:15.140 there are also
00:23:15.640 Chinese manufacturers
00:23:17.200 who've simply
00:23:17.860 relocated to Africa
00:23:19.560 and are using
00:23:21.720 AGOA
00:23:22.300 to enrich themselves.
00:23:24.980 Now,
00:23:25.260 maybe that's okay
00:23:25.980 anyway because
00:23:26.660 you just want to see
00:23:27.540 Africans getting jobs 1.00
00:23:29.000 and African industry
00:23:29.900 developing,
00:23:30.720 and if China's
00:23:31.420 investing there,
00:23:32.060 okay.
00:23:32.300 but the point
00:23:34.060 is that
00:23:34.500 you're still
00:23:35.500 giving China 0.98
00:23:36.460 preferential treatment
00:23:37.580 through an African 1.00
00:23:38.660 backdoor
00:23:39.320 and,
00:23:40.440 you know,
00:23:41.280 that kind of thing
00:23:41.900 just has to stop.
00:23:43.360 So,
00:23:44.020 I think Americans
00:23:45.120 are becoming
00:23:45.560 rightly skeptical
00:23:46.480 of some of these
00:23:47.280 agreements
00:23:47.940 and assumptions
00:23:48.560 that are made
00:23:49.760 in policy circles
00:23:50.560 about what kind
00:23:51.280 of trade arrangements
00:23:51.920 are the best.
00:23:53.380 People want to know
00:23:54.300 that they can
00:23:54.900 earn a living,
00:23:55.960 that they can invest,
00:23:56.680 and they're not going
00:23:57.080 to be destroyed
00:23:57.660 by unfair foreign competition.
00:23:59.280 Does unfair
00:24:02.600 foreign competition
00:24:03.880 include Canada
00:24:05.140 beyond your
00:24:05.980 dislike of our
00:24:07.560 socialized
00:24:08.760 supply management
00:24:09.960 system for milk
00:24:11.000 and dairy?
00:24:13.180 Yes,
00:24:13.720 I think that
00:24:14.300 the Toronto Blue Jays
00:24:15.440 are unfair foreign 1.00
00:24:16.420 competition for,
00:24:18.400 you know,
00:24:19.180 you know,
00:24:20.880 it depends.
00:24:21.760 I mean,
00:24:22.160 you've touched on
00:24:22.920 the agricultural issue,
00:24:23.940 which I think is important.
00:24:25.440 But,
00:24:26.100 again,
00:24:26.380 I don't see us
00:24:27.160 as necessarily
00:24:27.960 being trade rivals
00:24:28.960 with Canada
00:24:29.500 in a broader sense.
00:24:30.740 I do think
00:24:31.360 that this is a case
00:24:32.060 of Trump
00:24:32.440 using tariffs
00:24:33.300 to achieve
00:24:35.280 other foreign policy
00:24:36.380 goals,
00:24:37.240 and in this case
00:24:38.060 to strengthen
00:24:38.620 the border.
00:24:40.240 Now,
00:24:40.620 when we think
00:24:41.420 of our border
00:24:41.920 problems,
00:24:42.480 our migrants
00:24:43.820 and our federal,
00:24:44.500 we don't think of it.
00:24:45.780 But,
00:24:46.240 there are problems
00:24:47.820 on the northern border.
00:24:48.740 People have actually
00:24:49.260 been making me aware
00:24:50.000 of some of these problems
00:24:50.820 long before this issue
00:24:52.260 arose with Trump
00:24:53.180 drawing attention to it.
00:24:54.940 And,
00:24:55.420 I think Trump
00:24:56.900 wants all the help
00:24:57.460 he can get.
00:24:57.920 And,
00:24:58.160 I think that
00:24:58.740 it's not going
00:24:59.780 to cost Canada
00:25:00.460 very much
00:25:00.920 to make this concession.
00:25:02.560 So,
00:25:03.760 why not give Trump
00:25:04.640 what he wants?
00:25:05.700 You know,
00:25:05.920 I think it's fairly easy.
00:25:07.580 Especially because,
00:25:08.540 as Justin Trudeau says,
00:25:09.520 Trump wants to take over
00:25:10.340 Canada.
00:25:11.400 By the way,
00:25:12.900 I don't know that
00:25:13.900 Trump wants to take over
00:25:14.620 Canada.
00:25:15.060 I mean,
00:25:15.320 maybe parts of Canada.
00:25:16.980 Ottawa is really cold.
00:25:18.860 You know what I mean?
00:25:19.400 It's really cold up there.
00:25:21.300 And that's just Ottawa.
00:25:21.980 I lived there for 20 years.
00:25:24.000 Yeah.
00:25:24.720 I lived there for 20 years.
00:25:26.380 I don't miss the weather.
00:25:29.000 But you say you're not sure
00:25:31.360 he wants to take over Canada.
00:25:32.620 Your former colleague,
00:25:33.580 Steve Bannon,
00:25:34.200 who wrote the foreword
00:25:35.000 to the agenda,
00:25:36.940 he's been giving interviews
00:25:38.820 saying,
00:25:39.800 yeah,
00:25:40.560 Trump does want
00:25:42.520 to take over Canada.
00:25:43.500 And I know Bannon
00:25:44.540 and Trump
00:25:44.980 don't talk all that much anymore.
00:25:47.640 They're not tight
00:25:48.300 like they used to be.
00:25:49.120 But he says he does want
00:25:50.420 to take over Canada.
00:25:51.260 And here's why.
00:25:51.860 And he points to defense.
00:25:53.720 Now,
00:25:54.440 you know,
00:25:55.320 as well as I do,
00:25:56.640 that our defense budget
00:25:57.560 is next to nothing.
00:25:59.180 It's,
00:25:59.560 it's,
00:26:00.420 you know,
00:26:01.060 we can't send troops
00:26:03.000 over to Ukraine,
00:26:04.200 but we did send some
00:26:05.300 gender-based analysis
00:26:06.740 advisors
00:26:07.940 to tell Ukraine.
00:26:10.080 Yeah.
00:26:10.480 Well,
00:26:10.720 I mean,
00:26:11.040 look,
00:26:11.380 when you're fighting
00:26:11.920 for the life of your country,
00:26:13.760 what you really need
00:26:14.580 are gender-based analysis
00:26:15.740 advisors.
00:26:18.060 He did send some
00:26:19.040 of those over.
00:26:19.660 If they can shoot straight,
00:26:20.520 you know,
00:26:21.040 hire them.
00:26:23.280 The,
00:26:23.620 but Bannon says
00:26:25.400 because we're,
00:26:26.360 Canada's unable 0.50
00:26:27.060 to protect the Arctic
00:26:28.280 and that China
00:26:29.840 and Russia
00:26:30.200 want to get in there
00:26:31.580 that the United States
00:26:33.380 will have to take over.
00:26:35.480 Now,
00:26:36.040 you said you've got
00:26:36.920 Canadian cousins.
00:26:38.320 You know,
00:26:38.820 they probably don't want
00:26:40.040 to be taken over
00:26:40.680 by the United States.
00:26:41.760 So,
00:26:42.120 you know.
00:26:43.400 Oh,
00:26:44.020 I hate to disappoint you,
00:26:45.920 but some of the jokes
00:26:46.660 going back and forth
00:26:47.520 are pretty funny.
00:26:48.120 You know,
00:26:50.420 I'm not so sure
00:26:51.200 it's as unpopular
00:26:51.960 as you suggest.
00:26:54.080 Well,
00:26:54.320 public polling
00:26:55.280 would say about 80%
00:26:56.460 say no.
00:26:57.200 Well,
00:26:57.560 I got a message
00:26:58.280 from a friend in Canada
00:26:59.120 who said it would certainly
00:26:59.920 make my visa issues
00:27:00.920 go away. 0.82
00:27:02.160 So,
00:27:02.480 you know.
00:27:03.680 It would make my,
00:27:04.960 you know,
00:27:06.300 exchange rate problem
00:27:07.340 go away
00:27:07.800 for visiting
00:27:08.360 either Florida
00:27:10.020 or California
00:27:10.660 in the winter.
00:27:11.080 I'll tell you that.
00:27:11.800 I mean,
00:27:12.080 that's not.
00:27:13.260 You can understand that.
00:27:14.860 But look.
00:27:15.700 But I mean,
00:27:16.260 you know,
00:27:16.980 we have been laggards
00:27:18.120 on defense spending.
00:27:19.520 Right.
00:27:20.540 You know,
00:27:20.960 Trudeau's now saying
00:27:22.160 he'll do it,
00:27:22.640 but he's on his way
00:27:23.280 out the door.
00:27:25.320 Listen,
00:27:25.780 I didn't say,
00:27:26.380 I didn't say he wasn't serious.
00:27:27.800 I said he probably was serious.
00:27:29.260 I said I doubted
00:27:30.060 that he meant
00:27:30.520 all of Canada,
00:27:31.180 but that's just my speculation.
00:27:32.600 I mean,
00:27:32.800 you don't know
00:27:33.200 with Donald Trump
00:27:33.840 and that's part of the problem
00:27:35.980 with Trump.
00:27:36.500 It's also part of
00:27:37.220 his great strategic advantage
00:27:38.920 and uncertainty
00:27:40.260 is a massive asset
00:27:41.480 in foreign affairs
00:27:42.300 because
00:27:43.080 if you don't know
00:27:45.500 when your rival
00:27:47.360 is going to act
00:27:48.300 or what they're going to do,
00:27:49.560 it makes the rival
00:27:50.380 a lot more powerful.
00:27:51.860 So Trump is using uncertainty
00:27:54.320 and it's kind of amazing to me
00:27:55.400 because theoretically
00:27:56.420 the world has seen this before
00:27:57.520 and should know about this,
00:27:58.920 but evidently people are
00:28:00.400 just as shocked
00:28:01.400 as they always were.
00:28:03.140 And I just think
00:28:04.480 he's a lot more powerful
00:28:05.380 this time.
00:28:05.840 I know you got to go,
00:28:06.520 so I'll ask you
00:28:07.020 one last question.
00:28:07.760 What should we expect next
00:28:10.140 on the Trump agenda
00:28:11.020 in the coming weeks?
00:28:13.000 The first three weeks
00:28:13.980 have been a heck of a lot
00:28:14.820 to swallow,
00:28:15.360 so what's coming next?
00:28:16.940 I think Russia and Ukraine 0.95
00:28:17.900 is going to bring them
00:28:18.780 to the table
00:28:19.340 in terms of what you expect
00:28:21.460 in foreign policy.
00:28:22.320 I mean,
00:28:22.440 there's some domestic policy things.
00:28:24.180 You know,
00:28:24.300 I think there are going to be
00:28:24.960 some massive spending cuts.
00:28:26.440 Those fights are going to continue,
00:28:27.860 but I think you'll drag Russia 0.98
00:28:29.460 and Ukraine to the table
00:28:30.280 and then you're going to see
00:28:31.460 more action on Africa,
00:28:33.760 which is another terrain
00:28:34.820 where Russia and China
00:28:36.280 are big rivals.
00:28:37.760 Trump is playing hardball
00:28:38.620 with South Africa,
00:28:39.440 which is the leading
00:28:40.020 economic power there
00:28:41.820 because South Africa
00:28:42.560 has basically been
00:28:43.460 misbehaving for quite some time
00:28:44.880 and Trump is really
00:28:47.180 getting tough with them,
00:28:48.380 so I would watch that as well.
00:28:50.560 All right,
00:28:50.820 Joel Pollack,
00:28:51.760 thanks for the time.
00:28:52.780 You're very welcome.
00:28:53.420 Full Comment is a post-media podcast.
00:28:56.420 My name's Brian Lilly,
00:28:57.340 your host.
00:28:57.920 This episode was produced
00:28:59.020 by Andre Pru.
00:28:59.960 Theme music was by Bryce Hall.
00:29:02.060 Kevin Libin is the executive producer.
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00:29:15.400 Thanks for listening.
00:29:16.260 Until next time,
00:29:17.100 I'm Brian Lilly.
00:29:17.780 feel free to leave.
00:29:30.180 Thank you.
00:29:30.780 Bye-bye.
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00:29:34.060 convers scrutiny.
00:29:34.320 Bye-bye.
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