Prisha Mosley is a trailblazer in the fight against gender dysphoria. As a teen, doctors and counselors set her on a path of medicalized gender transition, telling her that changing her body through large amounts of synthetic chemicals such as testosterone and undergoing surgery to remove her healthy breasts would cure her mental health problems. Now she has begun her detransition, and she s sharing her story loud and proud to anyone that is willing to listen.
00:05:50.140I was having trouble eating from an eating disorder.
00:05:52.800I was incredibly depressed, all of this.
00:05:55.000So when I was around 15 or 16, I was online on the not-so-popular-anymore-tumblr.com.
00:06:02.360But trans-identifying activists found me and my friend group online where we were talking about having anorexia and basically encouraging each other to not eat and how this would help us feel better.
00:06:16.900And these adult activists convinced us that our actual problem was that we were born in the wrong bodies.
00:06:22.780So about half of us, including myself, took this idea to our doctors.
00:06:28.240I had been seeing a therapist for a number of years.
00:06:31.120We had talked about the miscarriage and the sexual assault, and she knew there was trouble afoot in my life.
00:06:38.280But when I came to her and to my nutritionist, actually, and said that I felt like a boy, I wanted to be a boy, and I hated my period, I was instantly affirmed.
00:06:58.440In fact, the pediatric endocrinologist who ended up injecting me with testosterone started meeting with me in secret in the nutritionist's office.
00:07:07.940So my parents thought they were taking me to be treated for the anorexia, and I was seeing the pediatric endocrinologist.
00:07:14.100So all of that led me to transitioning when I was a teenager.
00:07:18.500I started the testosterone at 17, and very shortly thereafter had both of my breasts amputated when I was 18.
00:07:27.360But, yeah, I lived as a trans-identifying man, believing that I could transform into a man, into a person that had never been hurt the way I was hurt,
00:07:40.160and who was never going to be hurt that way again, only to come to realize years down the road that it was all a scam.
00:07:49.220It was a fantasy, and I was medically defrauded.
00:07:55.000And before I knew it, I met my—he's—well, we aren't legally married because I changed my name, my sex, everything, all of that when I was a teenager.
00:08:44.040And your husband's daughter, your daughter, is just the most perfect, beautiful little girl as well.
00:08:51.360And it's really powerful to hear you say, as a woman, like hearing the word mommy, it almost brings out a maternal instinct that you didn't know you had or that you didn't know you were capable of.
00:09:05.300And so that's really, really beautiful.
00:09:07.180You mentioned a couple things that I have found to be, as someone who is chronically online and chronically involved in this space, I have found it to be a commonality.
00:09:17.340Number one, you mentioned sexual abuse, which is just horrific in its nature.
00:09:23.300But understanding the link to sexual abuse to those who begin to identify as trans, you mentioned being online and kind of those online spheres, especially on outlets like Tumblr or Reddit, where it's very easy to find a group of people who label themselves as supportive, but really only affirm the lies that you were born wrong, which is a very horrible message.
00:09:46.240And you mentioned things like anorexia or other personality disorders or other things.
00:09:54.160Do you believe any of those things were overlooked in the medical advice that you received that ultimately led doctors to, I guess, providing this gender affirming care?
00:10:06.040Yeah, I mean, all of those things were overlooked.
00:10:08.080And again, I had been seeing the therapist who ultimately signed off on my double mastectomy and wrote the letter of recommendation for that, that, you know, I had had the miscarriage and the sexual assault.
00:10:20.820She knew that I wasn't comfortable in my body.
00:10:24.460I didn't like what I believed came with womanhood.
00:10:27.480I didn't feel safe enough to be a girl or certainly to grow up into a woman.
00:10:31.840And none of this was explored or addressed.
00:10:34.640Instead, I was told pseudoscience that the problem was really that I had some form of an intersex condition and I had a male brain and a female body and that this medical condition that I was being diagnosed with was the cause of my suicidality, all of my problems, all of my struggles, you know, because my brain and my body didn't match.
00:10:57.180And then the only solution they offered me was to change my body.
00:11:00.900And looking back, I mean, that's not ethical.
00:11:04.780No one else who says that they're suicidal or hates themselves or wants to hurt their body or take away body parts gets this treatment until or unless they say they're trans.
00:11:18.040What was kind of the immediate when you began taking testosterone specifically?
00:11:23.400Because I've heard from people, whether it's those who are transitioning or even older women who began to take testosterone as a form of hormone replacement therapy, they say kind of the immediate of taking testosterone is a really good feeling.
00:11:52.580It did make me believe that I was never going to be hurt that way again.
00:11:57.140But that's just not true because my sex didn't change and I wasn't taught how to be less vulnerable and take care of myself and to hang around men who wouldn't hurt me and find a better company.
00:12:08.140In fact, I was thrust into a community full of sexual abusers and predators and pedophiles and people who broke boundaries and did horrible things.
00:12:21.600So you mentioned you began this detransition process.
00:12:24.840Were those same health care providers who were there for you during your transition, were they there for you during your detransition as well?
00:12:32.660No, I even reached out to the lady who wrote the letter of recommendation for me to start testosterone and the clinic said that I had never even been there.
00:12:44.920And then my parents reached out and they told them the same thing, which is an awfully cruel thing to do to someone who's struggled with delusions in the past to mess with their understanding of reality and whether or not they've been to a place or seen a person.
00:12:59.080I mean, that's just another layer of harm on top of it.
00:13:02.560But I've been completely abandoned by the majority of the medical community, not just the doctors who harmed me.
00:13:10.680Because outside looking in, again, as someone who hasn't dealt with the extreme nature of transitioning or detransitioning, I see this as a very profitable business, transitioning minors or adults for that matter.
00:13:28.960Do you think that they were quick to kind of neglect you and, again, I mean, essentially act like you never even existed in their eyes because you were no longer giving them what they really wanted, which ultimately, at the end of the day, whether it was you or your insurance company, money anymore?
00:13:44.460I think it's not just a loss of income, which is certainly an element, but it's also evidence of harm.
00:13:52.260They know that they're hurting people and detransitioners are evidence of that.
00:13:56.980We're going to the doctors with an onslaught of health conditions and no longer trying to hide them or gaslighting ourselves into thinking it's just the opposite sex puberty and we're really changing sex because that's what I thought for years while my body was falling apart.
00:14:11.880Right. So I can't do this because I'm in a lawsuit, have to do everything by the book ethically.
00:14:17.720But some girls say that if you go to the doctor and you tell them that, you know, you were transitioned as a minor, doctors gave you testosterone, all of that, they won't help you.
00:14:27.460But if you go to that same doctor and you tell them that you used to be a female bodybuilder and you decided to abuse steroids yourself, they'll start having some answers.
00:14:46.300I want to get to you as a mom now, too, because I think that's honestly, it's like the light at the end of the tunnel in the story as you were able to have this beautiful baby boy.
00:14:56.220And I want to hear about that experience.
00:14:57.480But tell us about this lawsuit, who you're suing, what you're suing for.
00:15:01.340Yeah, so I'm suing a therapist, a woman, the one who wrote the letter of recommendation for testosterone, found out she's not a therapist or doctor or licensed as anything through suing her.
00:15:13.080And the entity she was associated with, I'm suing Moses Cohn in relation to UNC for transitioning me as well as a surgeon and an actual therapist all for the testosterone and the surgery.
00:15:32.240And I'm suing them in the state of North Carolina.
00:15:35.040And believe it or not, this happened to me about 10 or 11 years ago.
00:15:38.600So this has been going on for quite a while.
00:15:40.440Yeah, and it totally debunks the narrative that we hear all the time surrounding the gender ideology movement, whether it's the medicalization side of things, whether it's the men and women sports things, whether it's the indoctrination side of things at educational programs where they say this isn't really happening.
00:15:58.800Well, you 10 years ago, 11 years ago, was proof that this is, in fact, happening and it is, in fact, severe and lasting.
00:17:26.580And now you're a mom and you realize those breasts that you viewed in that light, they have real purpose, not just for you, but for your baby at this point.
00:17:37.200Yeah, I feel like my baby was robbed and that it's just so disturbing.
00:17:45.400I mean, what happened when he was born and my inability to breastfeed and the complications, I would honestly use the word evil to describe it.
00:18:00.880But my son was wronged and robbed, too.
00:18:04.360And I'm fighting for justice, not just for myself, but for him, too.
00:18:08.440Well, he'll grow up and realize just how much his mom fought and how his mom fought for him.
00:18:15.260Can you speak to that if you feel comfortable in what it's like?
00:18:19.940Because how I view this, Prisha, is you have kind of been this medical experiment three times in your life, right?
00:18:26.880First and foremost, transitioning, secondly, detransitioning, and then having a baby throughout this process.
00:18:36.300So can you speak to and shed light for those of us who don't know how this would typically work?
00:18:43.560What is it like when you have a baby breastfeeding, but you've had your breasts removed?
00:18:49.420Like, when they remove your breasts, are they taking all the necessary steps to remove mammary glands?
00:18:57.720Like, did you feel pain, I guess, is what I'm asking, physical pain when your child is here, but your breasts have been removed?
00:19:06.780Yeah, it was actually the worst pain, the worst thing I have ever experienced in my life by far.
00:19:14.700I mean, everything else I've done or faced or seen just pales in comparison.
00:19:20.860And it's hard to talk about, but I'm honestly still afraid of the sound of a newborn's cry because I can't fix it with my body while my body was screaming to fix it.
00:19:34.860But a long time ago, when they weren't doing these surgeries so often, so quickly or on minors, they used to do, quote unquote, top surgery with an oncologist also present so that they could be sure that all of the breast tissue, mammary glands, milk ducts, and everything were removed.
00:19:56.720But now these surgeries are being done by plastic surgeons who just think highly enough of themselves to rearrange a girl's chest and try to make her look like a boy.
00:20:09.840So my surgeon left pieces of breast tissue inside of my chest.
00:20:14.880So when my baby was born, my milk came in, but he grafted my nipples, meaning he took them off, and he cut them up, and he reshaped them, and he froze them while he operated on me, and then reattached them back to my chest in the wrong spot in a male position, you know?
00:20:34.860So they look like a male, but they have no function.
00:20:41.500And so I had these, like, rocks, like—I looked down, and it looked like I had, like, scrambled eggs in my chest, but it was, like, these hard rocks, you know, how it gets hard.
00:20:54.680And it was milk that I couldn't let out, and my baby would scream and cry, and I would just be horrified.
00:21:01.060And the worst part was that my letter—my consent, my informed consent for surgery said that I may have trouble breastfeeding.
00:21:12.060So I even tried, and there was nothing—there was nothing I could do.
00:21:20.060And my midwife had no idea how to help me.
00:21:23.500I ended up just, like, doing old wives' medicine.
00:21:28.060I scored cabbages and put them on my chest, which I tightly bound, and pretty much overdosed on, like, Sudafed to dry it up.
00:21:40.880Oh, Prisha, any mom who's ever had the ability to produce milk for her baby, I mean, it's an understatement to say we understand what you're going through,
00:21:52.600but just the pain, that alone, when you can excrete your milk, the pain that that causes.
00:21:58.340So even the thought process of not being able to excrete in that way, all while looking down at your chest and seeing something that you don't even recognize,
00:22:07.120that feels so, like, Frankenstein-esque, I would imagine, is just so horrific, and you were so wronged.
00:22:15.000And I know it's not on me to apologize to those doctors or surgeons who did this, but I am so sorry.
00:22:21.940Goodness, like, it gives me chills and tears to my eyes to think about the horrific things you've been through and even continue to go through.
00:22:32.600You mentioned suing in the state of North Carolina where this happened.
00:22:35.780What have we seen about statute of limitations?
00:22:41.840Because I know President Trump, it was a priority of his to increase the statute of limitations for detransitioners to be able to sue their providers or practitioners or surgeons.
00:22:53.860Yes, I would say we really need to see a federal bill on this because some states, some laws have been changed at the state level,
00:23:02.620including in North Carolina, where I'm trying to hold my doctors accountable.
00:23:07.780And a judge originally found my case to have merit for fraud.
00:23:13.080And then when the law changed and said that there was a longer statute of limitations,
00:23:17.440changed from three years to ten years for detransitioners to hold their doctors accountable, my entire case was thrown out.
00:23:24.620So I'm now appealing to the higher courts of North Carolina who will hopefully see that the law was changed.
00:23:32.020This is what the legislature decided and make the decision that they see as just.
00:23:39.360Do you feel hopeful after especially the recent news?
00:23:42.500You mentioned Fox winning a two million dollar lawsuit.
00:23:45.340I believe this is the first detransitioner to successfully win a suit against her health care providers.
00:23:52.860Like, does that make you feel hopeful?
00:24:24.040Do you have a finite number of how many detransitioners are suing their medical providers?
00:24:28.980It's around 30, like very close to 30.
00:24:31.480Wow. And I would imagine that's a very, I mean, I know, actually, it's a very small number of people who have been ultimately harmed and irreversibly harmed by people who sold them the lie that they were born wrong.
00:24:46.500We see a lot of media coverage, especially in the past few weeks, surrounding detransitioners.
00:24:53.180Are there some misconceptions about detransition or about you guys as a, you know, specific demographic that you wish people understood a little bit better?
00:25:05.500Yeah, I wish, firstly, that people wouldn't assume that we suddenly hate our peers, our former community who continue to identify as trans.
00:25:14.200The truth is, most of us realized that we were scammed, we couldn't change sex, and what we tried to do came at the cost of our health and our body parts, and we just don't want that for our peers who still believe the same lies we believed.
00:25:29.220I don't hate anyone who identifies as trans, especially for that fact.
00:25:33.820I pity them, and if I am upset with anyone, it's the doctors.
00:25:39.380I don't think anyone deserves to be harmed that way.
00:25:41.600I also think that people expect detransitioners to do things to appear a certain way right away, as if the goal of detransition is to appear as your own sex again, when the truth is detransition is about accepting your body where it is, your sex, the way you were born, and then just trying to recover your health.
00:26:04.740Because when I was transitioning, my health was cast aside, it was thrown out of the window.
00:26:10.440It didn't matter that healthy pieces of me were being cut away and rearranged, or that my endocrine system was being destroyed, or that I was getting insulin resistance, or that my liver was growing.
00:26:30.420Your health, first and foremost, especially after, for many years, it was totally disregarded, second to appearance, or that euphoric, I guess, feeling, even if it meant your health was of not concern.
00:26:44.880In terms of accountability, kind of last question for you, I see it called for online, and it's something that I hope to see.
00:26:55.240Do you wish to see these medical providers who allow for practices like what happened to you to happen to others for their license to ultimately be revoked?
00:27:06.700Yeah, I honestly think that what they did was criminal, at least the people at the top, the people like the Endocrine Society, WPATH, the American Society of Pediatrics, people like them, all three of whom are being sued by the state of Florida right now, by the way.
00:27:25.740I think that doctors who purposely misled or withheld information from patients who couldn't know better because they were minors or incredibly mentally ill deserve to be held accountable to the fullest extent, whatever that may be.
00:27:42.600Like you think of the Hippocratic Oath, which in being a health law minor myself in college, I had to take many health ethics courses.
00:27:53.320And I remember learning about the Hippocratic Oath, and it is, first, do no harm.
00:27:58.800And what they did to you, Preacher, I wish every single person who believes that you can change sex, who doesn't think the practice is to be harmful, I wish they could listen to this and tell me how these doctors did not violate their Hippocratic Oath, because it's very evident that they did.
00:28:17.880And you are just so brave and courageous in the way that you so effectively tell your story, the way that you advocate for policy change, the way that you're pursuing litigation, I think, is a crucial part of real and lasting change, holding people accountable, putting their feet to the fire.
00:28:35.840You're doing all of that and more, and not just for you, but for your children, both of them, for your husband, and for the other detransitioners, just like you.
00:29:21.540I don't care what religion, what color, if you're gay or straight.
00:29:25.040None of that matters at the end of the day because we're all children of God, first and foremost.
00:29:29.940And again, an understanding that he created us intentionally and uniquely in his perfect image.
00:29:38.780I think that's what these, especially children, again, we could make the cases for adults, which certainly, but especially children, that's the message they need to hear.
00:29:48.500Not that they were born wrong, that God made a mistake when he created them.