Gaines for Girls with Riley Gaines - November 08, 2023


Ansleigh Wilk's Fight for Women's Sports


Episode Stats


Length

19 minutes

Words per minute

164.95683

Word count

3,248

Sentence count

292

Harmful content

Misogyny

10

sentences flagged

Toxicity

6

sentences flagged

Hate speech

5

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Anzalee Wilk talks about her journey in Jiu-Jitsu, how she got into the sport, and why she believes women should be allowed to compete in mixed martial arts and other physical contact sports.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.540 Okay, only 10 more presents to wrap. You're almost at the finish line, but first...
00:00:10.980 There, the last one. Enjoy a Coca-Cola for a pause that refreshes.
00:00:18.040 Welcome back to the Games for Girls podcast. Today's guest is another brave female athlete who has been outspoken in the past week or so on protecting women's sports and why it's important.
00:00:38.920 But her perspective is unique because it's in a physical contact sport. Jiu-Jitsu, mixed martial arts.
00:00:46.180 There was a story that gained national attention of a male, several males, standing atop the women's podium.
00:00:54.100 But the unique thing about the story was these female athletes boycotted. 1.00
00:00:59.020 And NAGA ultimately ended up changing their policies, which is what we need to see more of.
00:01:04.300 So stay around. Check out the interview with Anzalee Wilk. 0.78
00:01:09.260 Anzalee, thank you so much for coming on today.
00:01:12.080 I can only imagine how much your world has just kind of gone topsy-turvy.
00:01:18.260 You know, one second you're competing and the next second, here you are with the burden, with the weight of this on your shoulders.
00:01:26.100 And when I say this, I mean fighting for women in sports. 0.74
00:01:29.300 But let's go back a little bit.
00:01:30.780 I want you to have the opportunity to talk about when you got into MMA and Jiu-Jitsu and kind of what that training looks like.
00:01:37.460 Yeah, so I started back in 2015, about the end of September of 2015, because August of 2015, I had won my world title in archery.
00:01:51.860 So when I finished that, I was like, I'm kind of burnt out.
00:01:56.480 And I loved Ronda Rousey when I was growing up and I was like, always trying arm bars on dad.
00:02:04.440 So I was like, whenever we moved up to Athens from Augusta, we found this little gym and we just started with a nice basic gym.
00:02:13.440 We ended up leaving there.
00:02:15.020 I went to another one for about two years.
00:02:16.940 And now I found my home at American Top Team.
00:02:20.740 They're so awesome.
00:02:22.340 And like my Jiu-Jitsu has just progressed so much.
00:02:25.980 That's amazing.
00:02:27.420 And the training, is it something you do every day?
00:02:30.200 Is it?
00:02:31.380 Yeah, usually twice a day.
00:02:34.440 Three, if I'm feeling really good.
00:02:38.380 Yeah, no, that's incredible.
00:02:40.200 And I think it's important for people to realize, too, the amount of time and the sacrifices you have to make and the work that you put in to compete.
00:02:47.880 Of course, at any level, but the level you were competing at and to be successful at that level.
00:02:53.740 It's a big commitment and a lot of dedication that goes into it.
00:02:56.260 And so when your story, the story of what was going on in Jiu-Jitsu kind of gained national attention, I took myself back to the first time I had ever heard of this happening in a physical contact sport.
00:03:13.500 Like boxing or MMA or wrestling.
00:03:16.600 And I thought of Fallon Fox.
00:03:18.180 And I thought of how horribly, of course, that turned out for the women in the ring with Fallon.
00:03:25.480 Was that the first time you had kind of heard of this in your sport?
00:03:28.640 And, of course, it's progressed beyond that, as we saw.
00:03:31.500 But I think a lot of people were left in the dark about what was going on.
00:03:35.180 So can you talk about how it has progressed and how we ultimately got to the point you were at?
00:03:41.420 Yeah, so I actually, I stalk people's Instagram.
00:03:44.880 So I went through Fallon's the other day after all this went down.
00:03:49.440 And, like, I just see them bragging about sneaking into women's divisions and lying to their coaches about who they are for five years.
00:03:56.560 I'm like, you're bragging about this.
00:04:00.140 Like, the only thing we ever wanted was transparency because some women don't mind competing with them, clearly, because we obviously have this issue. 1.00
00:04:09.500 If we all had a problem with it, then we wouldn't have this issue.
00:04:13.020 So, but, you know, there's just got to be transparency and a choice.
00:04:19.140 Absolutely.
00:04:19.980 Absolutely.
00:04:20.420 And that's something I wanted to bring up because you posted a video on your Twitter, which was huge in the movement.
00:04:29.460 Because it was really telling to a lot of people.
00:04:32.220 And in this video, you're fighting a male, to which, to my knowledge, you didn't know you would be competing against a male until y'all were face to face.
00:04:39.680 Is that right?
00:04:41.060 I really didn't know until after the day was over.
00:04:44.080 Like, I was still a little confused.
00:04:45.780 And, like, my teammates kept telling me.
00:04:47.820 And, like, I'm literally gaslighting myself.
00:04:50.820 I'm like, no, they've competed against women so many times.
00:04:53.920 You can't tell me it's, you can't tell me that.
00:04:57.520 Yeah, right.
00:04:58.200 Like, I knew it was different because, like, it was my first tournament back in the Gi, which is the uniform.
00:05:05.400 And I hadn't done it in four years.
00:05:07.860 So, I was like, okay, my little brother's doing his first tournament.
00:05:10.760 I'll sign up and see if anyone wants to bump up and fight me.
00:05:13.580 If not, cool, I'll just get to coach, which I'm totally fine with.
00:05:17.860 But they moved up.
00:05:19.740 And, like, I know whenever I fight someone that's a lower level than me, I can finish that very quickly.
00:05:25.680 Like, my fastest submission against someone is seven seconds.
00:05:29.440 Wow.
00:05:31.120 So, I had a plan.
00:05:33.060 And when I wasn't able to do that, I was like, there's something wrong.
00:05:37.520 Right.
00:05:38.040 And then I have to fight them again.
00:05:39.620 So, I take a completely different approach.
00:05:41.760 And I'm like, all right, just kind of stay level.
00:05:44.720 And, like, don't freak out.
00:05:47.340 Because you know you can beat them.
00:05:48.800 You already did it once.
00:05:50.200 Just do it again.
00:05:52.320 Right.
00:05:53.100 So, could you feel like a male's strength?
00:05:57.040 Yeah.
00:05:57.620 I mean, I roll with men all the time.
00:05:59.320 And, like, that's not my issue.
00:06:00.860 It's like, the issue is, like, my male partners and I have, like, a mutual understanding to not hurt each other.
00:06:08.540 I'm not going 100% in the training room.
00:06:10.700 They're not going 100% in the training room.
00:06:12.560 They're probably not even going 25% with me.
00:06:15.900 And I might be going 50%.
00:06:17.820 It levels it out because they're a man.
00:06:20.680 Right.
00:06:21.220 Right.
00:06:22.060 And so, you posted this video.
00:06:24.180 And in the video, actually, in the match, you won.
00:06:27.640 Which, of course, is an incredible feat.
00:06:29.840 But in this video, you're explaining, you know, why, what the problem was in allowing this male and more males than just this one to compete in the women's category.
00:06:41.700 And you got a lot of pushback.
00:06:44.400 One of my favorites that I saw was from Ari Drennan, who I believe is a gaslighting narcissist who comments on my stuff all the time.
00:06:53.900 Any woman defending their own rights, he comments. 0.89
00:06:56.280 And he went on to comment and said, you know, why are you, you're worrying about an unfair advantage when you won.
00:07:02.480 Which I actually responded with.
00:07:04.020 It wasn't even about the unfair advantage against me.
00:07:07.220 I don't care.
00:07:08.340 I beat the hell out of them.
00:07:10.580 And that's what I basically responded. 0.93
00:07:12.500 I was like, look, a man competing in the women's category is a cheater. 0.99
00:07:15.360 And a man who loses to a woman in the women's category is still a cheater, but is just a cheater who sucks at his sport.
00:07:21.720 Um, but like you said, the argument, I think a lot of people believe the argument is based around fairness.
00:07:27.500 And while I believe that's the most obvious reason, you're right, it is more than that.
00:07:33.300 Um, I believe that any man competing with a woman, even if he places dead last, is still cheating and taking an opportunity away from a deserving woman.
00:07:42.120 And that's what it is.
00:07:42.840 We're taking opportunities away.
00:07:44.360 Right in jujitsu, we see the registry.
00:07:47.000 We can see who signs up.
00:07:48.260 We know who you are.
00:07:50.320 Like, like before this, I'm not thinking to go to this girl's page and look in their tag photos to see if they used to be a man.
00:07:57.780 I'm not thinking about that.
00:08:00.100 No, but you talk about transparency.
00:08:02.780 And so what does that really mean?
00:08:05.820 What do you mean by transparency and why is it important?
00:08:08.060 So Naga had a rule to where they could make brackets with trans people and then give a biological girl an option if they want to fight them to make a bracket. 0.97
00:08:18.880 They dropped the ball when one of them did send them an email and they didn't notify the girl.
00:08:25.480 So, you know, they could have made this policy work, but they screwed up.
00:08:31.640 Right.
00:08:32.220 And they, and they ruined it for everyone.
00:08:34.840 Right.
00:08:35.520 Yeah.
00:08:35.840 Yeah.
00:08:36.000 And that totally makes sense.
00:08:38.880 But after that, Redux and Icons, actually, which both amazing groups, I encourage everyone to go check them out.
00:08:45.760 They do phenomenal work on protecting women's sports.
00:08:49.000 They collaborated and had kind of done this expose piece on your experience, on Jaden's experience, which is another fighter.
00:08:56.960 And I think it garnered a lot of public outrage.
00:09:01.600 Naga, ultimately, did they change their policies? 0.74
00:09:04.300 It sounds like they had policies in place before this.
00:09:07.160 And so, so what did Naga do?
00:09:09.560 I don't know the original policy, but I think that kind of came into play after Fallon kind of admitted to sneaking into divisions.
00:09:17.580 I don't know.
00:09:19.140 Like, that's just my thoughts.
00:09:22.340 And then the Taylor video came out and they were like, yeah, we've always had this policy of, like, you can do this if you want, but if you don't want to, we'll refund you, blah, blah.
00:09:35.260 Right.
00:09:36.460 Right.
00:09:36.820 But ultimately, from what I saw, it took them 21 hours to release the statement.
00:09:44.080 And I think that goes to show the power, again, of public outrage, because the public, the general public, is in our favor.
00:09:52.780 Right.
00:09:53.240 Not just Republicans, not just female athletes, but anyone I would imagine with common sense can understand why this is, it's harmful to women. 1.00
00:10:02.220 And in the women's category, of course, there's safety and privacy and opportunities and all those different things. 1.00
00:10:08.180 But there were a couple athletes who boycotted this event on October 21st down in Georgia.
00:10:14.820 Is that what you think this is going to take?
00:10:18.920 Are we going to see, are we going to need to see more females kind of taking a stand and saying, look, I'm not competing. 1.00
00:10:25.880 If a man is on the mat or if a man is at the starting block or whatever sport it may be.
00:10:31.880 Yeah.
00:10:32.440 Like, just don't sign up.
00:10:33.900 Don't show up.
00:10:34.760 Or you can show up and just dip out when you're about to race.
00:10:39.580 Yeah, that's certainly what I think, too.
00:10:43.780 While I believe that, I think we need more coaches.
00:10:46.880 I think we need more parents who are willing to take a stand.
00:10:49.900 I think we need more men.
00:10:51.200 I believe totally that this is a joint effort, but I believe it needs to come from the women. 0.97
00:10:56.560 Right.
00:10:57.020 We can't expect someone to save us if we aren't even willing to save ourselves.
00:11:02.060 So so that's kind of where I am, too.
00:11:05.940 After you posted your video, I saw that you got a ton of support.
00:11:10.520 Something that I thought was super cool is you even got the support from J.K.
00:11:14.680 Rowling and Martina.
00:11:17.460 So crazy.
00:11:18.740 It's so cool.
00:11:19.880 J.K. Rowling, she said, this isn't and never was about hate.
00:11:25.080 It's about fairness and safety for women and girls.
00:11:27.100 You stood up to protect your fellow athletes, which makes you a heroine in all sane people's eyes.
00:11:32.120 I know backlashes aren't fun.
00:11:34.120 Believe me, I know.
00:11:35.160 But there are things far more important than pleasing all the people all the time.
00:11:38.780 All power to you.
00:11:40.780 I bet that was surreal for you.
00:11:43.200 It was like I immediately called my mom.
00:11:45.520 Like I saw her repost it and then she left the comment and I was just like.
00:11:51.600 I was completely speechless.
00:11:54.040 Like I've been watching Harry Potter since it came out.
00:11:58.160 Like my grandma is a super fan.
00:12:01.320 We took her to Harry Potter World in Orlando Universal and she literally cried when she walked through the gates.
00:12:07.040 Like, yeah, yeah, no, that was cool.
00:12:12.320 And Martina and a slew of other people.
00:12:15.260 But I wanted to ask you, you know, in terms of support versus criticism, what has that looked like for you?
00:12:23.460 And is it hard for you to read some of the things you've had to read, you know, about yourself, about your talent and your work ethic and all the different things?
00:12:31.460 Yeah, no, some of it's really funny.
00:12:35.240 Like, I feel like it's definitely stripped my ego and made me a better person to just not take things seriously because people are just uneducated.
00:12:45.100 I love that response.
00:12:46.740 And I love that you're able to handle it with humor because it is hard.
00:12:51.160 But if you can kind of laugh it off and realize that the people commenting these things, you know, I would say most of the time is someone who doesn't play sports, first and foremost.
00:13:00.700 Always.
00:13:01.760 Yeah.
00:13:02.300 They don't understand, you know, what it takes, what it means to succeed and be able to play and win and all those different things.
00:13:09.680 Right.
00:13:10.060 To handle it with humor, I think, is incredibly admirable.
00:13:14.400 And truthfully, I think it's necessary.
00:13:18.440 Yeah.
00:13:18.700 Well, comedy's always been, like, a big part of my life.
00:13:22.960 It's just, like, I love to laugh, even if it's, like, traumatizing.
00:13:27.040 Like, I'm going to laugh.
00:13:28.740 Even if I'm uncomfortable, I'm going to laugh.
00:13:31.040 I love to laugh.
00:13:32.060 It's going to make me feel better, even if it's my worst day.
00:13:36.000 Oh, well, that's good to hear that I'm sure you've had a lot of laughs over the past couple weeks.
00:13:43.280 So what's the future for you?
00:13:45.700 What does this look like?
00:13:46.760 Are you, you're, of course, I would imagine going to keep competing?
00:13:49.360 Yeah, I was going to go to Nashville next week to compete, but I just feel like with everything going on right now, I need just, like, a week to settle and let things process.
00:14:00.580 But I'll be competing in Atlanta.
00:14:02.920 I'm really glad.
00:14:04.220 It's in town this time because I've been, I have not been home a single weekend.
00:14:10.320 This is, like, the first Sunday I've been home in probably two months.
00:14:14.940 Wow.
00:14:16.300 Yeah.
00:14:16.560 Back to that dedication.
00:14:18.020 After that, I think after the Atlanta, I'm going to go do No Gi Worlds in Las Vegas, and that'll be pretty much my last one for the year. 0.56
00:14:28.160 It's December 7th.
00:14:30.940 Gotcha.
00:14:31.500 Gotcha.
00:14:32.360 Well, we'll all be watching.
00:14:34.040 We're very excited.
00:14:35.060 I'm sure you have a lot of new fans, a lot of people in your corner now.
00:14:40.280 And will you keep defending women's sports? 0.61
00:14:43.720 Absolutely.
00:14:44.720 Like, I'm in this fight now.
00:14:46.440 Like, I was telling Marshy and Icons and just, like, that whole group, like, I'm in this now.
00:14:52.760 Like, I want to help.
00:14:54.220 Like, this is what I want to do.
00:14:57.540 Well, I can't tell you how refreshing that is to hear.
00:15:00.720 We always need more people, especially brave female athletes like yourself who have gone through this, who know what it's like, who know how humiliating it is, I would say, to compete against a man.
00:15:15.080 And even when you do win, which just shows how amazing you are, it's tough.
00:15:21.300 And so to have people who have that experience willing to take a stand for what is right, for what is fair, for what is just, in a way that's respectful, in a way that's compassionate, right?
00:15:31.860 I think it's very easy, as I'm sure you know now, to get labeled as anti-trans or transphobic or whatever other word they want to hurl your way.
00:15:41.320 Right, which obviously, if you know me, isn't the case.
00:15:44.960 I had a chat with Jessica and my friend Brittany this morning.
00:15:48.160 We did a podcast.
00:15:49.280 It was about an hour long.
00:15:51.040 It was super fun, super insightful.
00:15:52.940 And, like, I definitely think people, if they go and watch that, it's a learning experience, which is also something I'm trying to gain from all of this, is just learning both sides, even if the right hates me for trying to learn the other side and the left hates me for not completely understanding their side.
00:16:12.740 All I can do is just be me and continue to try and be a better person every day.
00:16:17.300 Of course.
00:16:19.100 And I'm sure, again, as you know now, when people hate you, it's probably because you're doing the right thing.
00:16:26.580 Totally agree.
00:16:28.080 It's important to consider all perspectives, to have discourse, to challenge each other, because ultimately, that's how we unify.
00:16:37.920 That's how we advance.
00:16:38.960 That's how we create solutions when we're willing to at least hear one another out.
00:16:43.080 And what I see so often right now, particularly from the opposition, they're not even willing to listen.
00:16:51.100 And that goes, actually, for both sides.
00:16:52.580 You're exactly right.
00:16:53.380 But, again, in my experience, they're not even willing to answer questions, to ask questions.
00:16:58.360 It's immediately.
00:16:59.440 Immediately. 0.90
00:17:00.220 You're a bigot.
00:17:01.300 Right.
00:17:01.780 Exactly. 1.00
00:17:02.460 I think my craziest comment was, you're an obnoxious racist. 0.99
00:17:06.780 And this was for saying Joe Rogan is my spirit animal. 0.99
00:17:09.620 I was like, what the hell are y'all talking about?
00:17:14.720 But it shows you how those words lose meaning.
00:17:18.620 Right?
00:17:19.180 I mean, what an awful thing to be called a racist.
00:17:22.440 Of course, someone who is racist, but a terrible thing.
00:17:25.140 But that word loses its weight.
00:17:27.940 It does.
00:17:28.920 It's how heavy it really is.
00:17:30.840 If you've ever experienced racism.
00:17:31.800 Like, I was telling some of my friends who have obviously experienced it before.
00:17:37.120 And, like, they've told me their stories.
00:17:38.480 And they just looked at me like, how does that translate to racism?
00:17:45.960 Right.
00:17:46.460 Exactly.
00:17:47.100 But, again, that's the tactics they use.
00:17:50.060 I believe they will call you anything to keep you quiet.
00:17:53.180 They can't dissuade, I believe, with facts or with common sense or logic or reasoning.
00:17:59.380 And so, it is name-calling.
00:18:01.120 But to stand up against all of that, to be firm, to be respectful, which I commend you for having those conversations.
00:18:09.380 It's incredibly important.
00:18:11.580 It's truly admirable.
00:18:13.400 And I am right on page with J.K. Rowling and saying you're a heroine, of course, for me, for the next generation of female athletes.
00:18:22.860 So, so grateful for you and your voice.
00:18:26.900 I imagine we'll be doing a lot of work together in the coming future to save women's sports.
00:18:32.540 Absolutely.
00:18:33.440 I really hope so.
00:18:35.040 Of course.
00:18:35.900 Well, thank you so much, Ansley, for coming on.
00:18:38.820 Yeah, thank you for having me.
00:18:41.480 That is what we need.
00:18:43.100 We need more athletes like Ansley who are willing to take a stand, willing to say no, willing to say enough is enough.
00:18:50.580 And, of course, doing it in a way that can still be seen as respectful and compassionate.
00:18:56.460 But women shouldn't have to put up with the mistreatment of allowing men into our sports. 1.00
00:19:01.560 Thanks for tuning in.
00:19:02.800 You can get this podcast anywhere where you get your podcasts.
00:19:06.480 Apple, Spotify, go to outkick.com.
00:19:10.340 Make sure you check out the Riley Gaines Center.
00:19:12.420 You can find that at www.rallygainescenter.org.
00:19:17.000 Thank you all for tuning in, and I will see you again next week.
00:19:19.520 Thank you.
00:19:19.840 Thank you.
00:19:21.520 Thank you.