Gaines for Girls with Riley Gaines - Defending Real Women with Piers Morgan

00:00:00.540 Okay, only 10 more presents to wrap. You're almost at the finish line, but first...

00:00:10.980 There, the last one. Enjoy a Coca-Cola for a pause that refreshes.

00:00:18.040 Welcome back to the Gains for Girls podcast. I hope everyone had a wonderful and happy

00:00:31.780 Thanksgiving. Today's guest is someone that I've been watching for a long time, ever since I was

00:00:37.760 young. I've been on his show several times, and so this is kind of like a full circle moment for me.

00:00:43.360 He has been a leading voice for women, for restoring sanity, not just in the U.S., of course,

00:00:52.860 but internationally. We will get into all things free speech, of course, the issue of women's sports

00:01:00.160 and what this means and how to restore, again, this country, but the broader picture of the world.

00:01:07.120 Check out the interview with Piers Morgan.

00:01:08.520 So, Piers, thank you so much for coming on. It is so nice to see you. My husband is actually

00:01:17.280 a Brit. He's from Manchester, and all of his family still lives there, and so I've been following what's

00:01:22.660 going on in Europe, especially in Ireland and France and in London, and like I was saying,

00:01:28.880 it seems like it's a total mess at the moment. You have people who are climbing on British monuments

00:01:33.960 on Armistice Day and trams and buildings on fire and cars being set on fire and no one's being

00:01:39.640 arrested for it. Actually, it seems as if they're being pat on the back for it, and then I saw

00:01:44.860 yesterday you have a journalist, Tommy Robinson, who was arrested at an anti-Semitism rally in

00:01:50.760 downtown London, and it just seems like these antics, I think is the best word for it, are happening

00:01:56.200 all over across the U.S., of course, especially in big cities like Portland and Seattle and San

00:02:01.460 Francisco and Chicago and Detroit. And so I kind of wanted to get your take on what's the common

00:02:06.820 theme here, and why does this not only continue to happen, but it seems as if it's getting worse?

00:02:12.920 Well, the common theme, I think, is, well, first of all, Riley, thanks for having me on your

00:02:15.640 great podcast. I appreciate it. But the common theme, I think, is that people are wrestling with

00:02:20.860 what free speech actually means and how to police free speech, and what is the difference between free

00:02:26.480 speech and hate speech? Take, for example, the pro-Palestinian marches in London. In this country,

00:02:33.560 Hamas is a prescribed terror organization. Therefore, it is illegal to publicly support them 0.91

00:02:39.700 in the streets, and many people would agree with that. They would say, look, this is a terror group.

00:02:44.240 If you're out there promoting terrorism, that's not free speech. That is advocating and actively

00:02:49.720 promoting hate speech. And so people can be arrested for that. But what do you do, for example,

00:02:54.720 if there's 150,000 people, as there have been on some of these marches, and they have a banner

00:02:59.640 saying, from the river to the sea? Some people, many people on the Jewish side, Israeli side, would 0.99

00:03:05.020 say that means the eradication of Israel. Others on the Palestinian side, that's not what it means at

00:03:10.560 all. And you've seen, actually, United States members of Congress actually saying that's not what

00:03:15.380 it means. So when there is a debate about the meaning of slogans and so on, how do you determine what

00:03:20.900 is free speech and what is hate speech? Quite complex issues. But what has definitely been

00:03:25.740 noticeable to me is that you see someone like Tommy Robinson, I have no truck with him. I think

00:03:30.320 he's a pretty loathsome individual. But he's allowed to protest in the street. From what I could see 0.95

00:03:36.040 yesterday, he wasn't wanted at the anti-Semitism march. But he's perfectly entitled to be there in 1.00

00:03:42.040 a free democratic country. And I'm not sure from what I've seen, what he was doing that justified the

00:03:47.560 very heavy handed police reaction. And then it comes down to, well, if he's going to be arrested

00:03:52.000 just for being at a march like that, and he was saying he was there to support the anti-Semitism

00:03:57.380 march, then what about those on the pro-Palestinian side? Why is there a double standard and hypocrisy?

00:04:03.720 And I think it's that that you're seeing around the world, America, the UK, Ireland and others,

00:04:08.460 it's almost like there's a two tier system for how you police, whether it's a Black Lives Matter 0.55

00:04:13.980 march or a pro-Palestinian march, or a far right march or whatever. And I think there has to be

00:04:20.040 some consistency. And I think that's what people are crying out for.

00:04:24.000 No doubt. I would certainly agree that we're lacking consistency across the board, especially

00:04:28.800 within our leadership. But it's an interesting point you bring up about hate speech versus free

00:04:34.860 speech. Who defines hate speech? Is that something that's left up to our government? This is a genuine

00:04:41.980 question. Well, it's a very difficult question. And in fact, it depends what country you're in,

00:04:46.620 right? I mean, America has some of the strongest free speech defences in the world under the First

00:04:52.340 Amendment. You know, I actually had a good experience of that when there was a petition to have me deported

00:04:57.860 because of my views about gun control. And in the end, it was on a White House petition. And Barack

00:05:05.160 Obama, who was president, issued a statement saying I was allowed to have my views under the First

00:05:10.300 Amendment. And so I was saved for the American people who didn't seem overly pleased about that 0.51

00:05:14.640 decision. But I was quite pleased about it. It meant I got to stay in the country. But it was an

00:05:19.240 interesting moment for me of realising just how strong the First Amendment is. And it goes a lot

00:05:23.260 further, the First Amendment. I mean, you probably could, as I think has been pointed out by people in

00:05:29.160 the last few weeks, you could walk around having a Nazi rally in America if you wanted to, without

00:05:35.500 actually breaking the law. You couldn't do that in Germany. And you couldn't do that in the UK,

00:05:40.100 or many other parts of Europe. So there are different rules about the governance of free

00:05:44.900 speech. And that is one of the problems, particularly in a world where social media

00:05:49.400 amplifies all these scenes around the world in seconds. So everyone can see the kind of different

00:05:55.840 ways that these things get policed. You know, to me, I think it's quite straightforward. If you are

00:06:00.900 promoting violence or terrorism, then you've crossed the line from free speech, which I defend

00:06:07.060 passionately, and you stray right into hate speech. And hate speech, to me, should never be tolerated if

00:06:13.660 it promotes the violence of minority groups in particular. Of course. You mentioned that we are 1.00

00:06:21.620 very fortunate here in the US to have the freedoms and the rights that we have. Outsider looking in,

00:06:27.460 against someone who is in Europe, we have a lot of people here who think they are oppressed,

00:06:32.980 who believe that they don't have the rights that we've been so fortunately blessed with through our

00:06:37.980 constitution. What do you think about that? I mean, are we here in the US, do we see this act of

00:06:46.900 discrimination that's constantly being touted by minority groups? Is that a realistic thought for

00:06:54.280 people to be thinking? Well, I think there are some people who would certainly feel that and may

00:06:58.880 have legitimate reasons to feel it. But is America an oppressive country, which treats people very

00:07:05.000 differently? I'm not convinced that it is. I've lived and worked in America for over 20 years. And it's one

00:07:10.540 of the most multicultural, diverse. And I've got to say, as someone described as an alien on my visa,

00:07:17.020 I'm known as an alien, which is a lovely phrase, makes me think I'm in Star Wars or something.

00:07:21.660 But as an alien, I can only say I've always been very welcomed in America. Notwithstanding,

00:07:27.400 I've often taken quite polarizing political views and opinions which have rubbed up the wrong way

00:07:32.400 with half of the country. So I like that about America. I don't see America as an oppressive

00:07:37.240 nation. If you really want to know what an oppressive nation is, go to Russia, go to China,

00:07:41.780 go to North Korea. These are repressive and oppressive nations. And I think sometimes one of the biggest

00:07:47.320 problems with America is I think only 30% of Americans to this day, maybe slightly more now,

00:07:53.060 but it's around 30% of Americans have passports and ever leave the country. They never actually see

00:07:58.980 another world. And I think that would enlighten them about what real repression and oppression

00:08:04.740 looks like. I also think, and this is selfish because it's my, one of my bugbears about America,

00:08:09.620 a country I love with people that I love, but I've never understood the gun violence culture 1.00

00:08:15.440 and the culture of not wanting to do anything about it. I always think if more Americans came

00:08:21.320 to countries like the UK, which have lots of our own problems, by the way, but if came here and

00:08:25.360 realized that nobody has any guns, it's quite a nice feeling not to have to get out of bed in the

00:08:29.800 morning and think, well, I'll be shot today when I go to school, when I go to work, or when I'll go to

00:08:33.420 my church, whatever it may be. So I, and I think the same way about English people going to America,

00:08:38.400 a lot of things about America that we could look at and learn from. So I think that travel

00:08:42.360 actually is one of the key ways that you learn about perspective in life. And one of the problems

00:08:48.420 with America, and it doesn't have many that I would say are proper problems. I love the country,

00:08:53.120 but one of the problems is 70% of Americans never leave the country. They never see another way.

00:08:58.580 They never see another way of living. And they don't, in the case that you mentioned of

00:09:02.860 people feeling oppressed, they don't really understand what that means.

00:09:07.600 Yeah, no, I certainly agree with you there. Moving on to the indefensible topic of allowing

00:09:14.900 males into women's sports. First, I just wanted to thank you for being such a strong voice,

00:09:21.960 a strong male voice in this battle. And of course, the broader war on women. You've been talking about

00:09:27.780 this for years now. And granted, I was young when kind of all this was thrusted onto me,

00:09:35.020 but this is never something that I saw as a threat to women and our rights and our opportunities.

00:09:41.380 But you and Representative Katie Porter, who is of course a Democrat representative from California,

00:09:47.400 you both were on real time with Bill Maher a few months back and the topic of women's sports

00:09:52.640 got brought up. And Representative Porter, she made it very clear that me, myself,

00:09:59.800 I was motivated by simply one thing. And what that one thing she said I was motivated by

00:10:05.360 is, is clicks and likes. She made it very clear that I have taken the stand for myself and for

00:10:11.280 self-benefit, which I think is ironic considering Porter tends to be a performative politician, 0.74

00:10:18.760 essentially calling me an attention whore, which I think is a pretty cynical projection, 0.79

00:10:23.920 considering I've risked a pretty quiet, secure, normal life to ultimately be branded a transphobe.

00:10:31.800 I've likely forfeited any chance to work in mainstream or corporate America as a result.

00:10:37.100 And my message is simple. It's just keep women's sports fair. But you defended me and you said

00:10:43.880 something to the effect that you didn't believe I was doing this for personal benefit or for personal

00:10:48.800 reasons. You said I was doing this for every past, present and future female athlete who just wants 0.99

00:10:53.900 a fair chance at playing sports. And so my question for you is, do you really think that that Representative

00:10:59.880 Porter thinks this is about clicks and likes? Or do you think that's her just kind of saying this

00:11:06.080 to to speak it into existence?

00:11:08.900 I thought she displayed shocking moral cowardice. She knew, as you know, and I know, and every

00:11:16.560 right minded person knows that this is grotesquely unfair, that if you allow people who were born 1.00

00:11:22.400 biologically male to put their hand up and say they're women and want to compete in women's sports,

00:11:27.660 they are going to destroy women born with female biological bodies, women, right? They're just going 1.00

00:11:33.900 to destroy them. And we're seeing it now time and again, week after week in all sports,

00:11:37.740 whether it's sprinting in America, swimming, whether it's, you know, over here, cricket,

00:11:43.980 whatever it may be, soccer. In every sport now, you're seeing this creeping erosion of women's 1.00

00:11:49.600 rights to fairness and equality. I have no problem with trans people. People want to transition, 1.00

00:11:54.880 want to identify as something that they weren't born as, fine. But what you can't do in your pursuit

00:12:00.640 of your own rights to fairness and equality is erode the rights of women's fairness and equality 1.00

00:12:06.440 rights. And that's what we're seeing. And it has to stop. Now, I think common sense is slowly coming

00:12:11.520 in. You and I are going to get vindicated over time. It's been a long and lonely path for you

00:12:16.780 in particular. I think for a young woman like you to put your head over the parapet is incredibly 1.00

00:12:21.200 courageous. I salute you for doing it. And more women should do what you're doing. It's all right 1.00

00:12:26.360 for people like me, men to go, hey, support and defend women's rights. Women need to understand the 0.84

00:12:31.920 danger that this poses, in particular in sport. It is killing women's rights to fairness and equality, 0.69

00:12:39.140 and it has to stop. Absolutely. It's almost, it would be comical. I think comical would be a good

00:12:47.540 word if there weren't real repercussions. It's almost comical how you've seen this feminist movement. 0.59

00:12:53.380 You think back to the 60s and the 70s when we didn't have, of course, Title IX here in the US.

00:12:58.840 I think of that picture at the Boston Marathon. I think it was in 1967 or so. I believe it was in

00:13:04.540 the 60s. And you have this woman, this woman who was posing as a man just because she wanted the

00:13:09.340 opportunity to run. And she's being, this photo, it's of course a black and white photo. She's being

00:13:13.180 drug off the course because women weren't allowed to race. And so you think of how we've, these hard

00:13:19.100 earned rights and opportunities, how far we've come in just a short 50, 60 years. And now in the name

00:13:26.580 of feminism and in the name of inclusivity, we are excluding women. And so it's almost ironic. It's

00:13:34.040 almost, like I said, comical. I think it would be funny if, if, because it's like a Babylon Bee

00:13:39.380 headline. It's like a South Park episode, but still life with women ultimately being the collateral 1.00

00:13:44.960 damage in the process. South Park did this sketch a few years ago, but they did it. They showed what

00:13:51.240 this would be like. The person who speaks most sense on this and who should be listened to the

00:13:55.900 loudest is Caitlyn Jenner. Caitlyn Jenner told a story to me, actually, in an interview we did,

00:14:02.260 where she's a very keen golfer, but obviously competed for America as a man, as Bruce Jenner,

00:14:10.320 won the Olympic gold to Kathleen. Caitlyn is six foot three or four, extremely well built. And when she 0.66

00:14:18.040 transitioned, she didn't want any different rights to the ones she'd had in the sporting arena, 0.85

00:14:22.220 but a local golf club made a tee off of the ladies' tees, like 50 yards further ahead of

00:14:29.400 biological males. And she was like, this is crazy. I'm not doing this. I'll win everything. 0.71

00:14:34.840 So that right there is, that's, that's the issue. Should Caitlyn Jenner, who won an Olympic gold 1.00

00:14:41.900 decathlon, decathlon for America as a, as a man, should Caitlyn be allowed to tee off 50 yards ahead

00:14:50.000 of other biological males and right next to women with significantly smaller and weaker bodies? And 0.94

00:14:56.940 she concluded quite rightly, that would be completely unfair, unequal and a nonsense. So she now goes back

00:15:04.680 and tees off with biological men. And that's called common sense. She gets to play golf, but she doesn't 1.00

00:15:11.520 get to have an unfair physical, biological advantage over women. Of course. It's, it's called common 1.00

00:15:19.480 sense, but it's also have, it's called having a moral compass and understanding how this is harmful

00:15:27.040 to women. You had April Hutchinson on your podcast or on your show. She's been an incredible warrior in 0.62

00:15:35.440 this fight. She's been on this podcast. She is a power lifter. She's now been banned for two years by, by the 1.00

00:15:42.560 Canadian power lifting union. And she actually just had, she had a shrine in this museum in Ontario. Because her

00:15:50.400 story, you know, being an alcoholic, she recovered and power lifting really saved her life. They've now removed her

00:15:55.940 shrine, um, from the museum as well because of the stance that she's taken. Um, so the repercussions are

00:16:04.000 real. Like you said, you've seen them, I've seen them. Um, and it's a travesty. And so I just wanted to ask

00:16:10.600 you, look, I know you're in Europe, uh, but you see what goes on over here. You you've lived here. What's it going

00:16:17.460 to take to ultimately restore sanity, restore common sense, put America and of course the world back on

00:16:26.580 the right tracks? Is it new leadership? Um, actually what it needs, it probably needs, uh, Mike Tyson to

00:16:33.140 identify as a woman and demand to take part in women's boxing or for Usain Bolt to come out of

00:16:38.960 retirement and say, I'm now Usain Bolt, a woman, and I want to compete in the Olympic hundred meter

00:16:45.600 women's final and then win by 50 yards. It's probably going to take something as crazy as that to bang 1.00

00:16:52.480 people's heads together. But I do believe slowly, but surely the work, the woke worm is turning more and

00:16:58.940 more sports authorities around the world, including cricket just now in England. It's national cricket

00:17:04.020 has now banned transgender athletes from competing because they know it's unfair. There was a cricketer in the

00:17:09.920 south of England here who played against men as a biological male and averaged 17. And then she 0.98

00:17:17.180 identified as a woman and now averaged 117. I mean, it was completely insane, uh, and was crowned the best 0.98

00:17:25.540 player in her region. But of course, wouldn't have been anywhere near that as a man. That's ridiculous.

00:17:31.980 And we all know it's ridiculous. So you keep shouting from the rooftops. I'll keep shouting from the rooftops, 1.00

00:17:38.140 but we need a lot more people like you prepared to have the courage in women's sport. I mean, I actually think

00:17:43.540 right now, every female competitor in women's sport in the world should just refuse to compete against trans 1.00

00:17:51.740 athletes, not because they're transphobic, because they want to protect women's rights to fairness. And if they all did that

00:17:57.560 one day, this ends. I 100% agree. And I didn't agree for the longest time. I thought women shouldn't 1.00

00:18:04.220 have to boycott, but I've, I can proudly say I've changed my mind on that. That is what it's going to

00:18:10.320 take. Uh, that's what we need to see. Um, and you're right. Courage is contagious. I certainly believe

00:18:17.220 that. Uh, but so is hopelessness. And so I think if we remain hopeless, like we're seeing so many women, 1.00

00:18:23.240 so many people do, uh, that's just as contagious as courage. And so I wanted to mention very briefly, uh, while I have

00:18:32.360 you, I saw Katie Porter when I was in DC, uh, a few months back after, of course, I had seen the show. I saw what she

00:18:40.120 said about me. I saw Katie Porter. Um, and we made eye contact and, you know, she, I could tell she knew who I was. And so I

00:18:48.360 approached her and I just said to her very point blank, look, representative Porter, uh, my name is

00:18:53.700 Riley Gaines. And I just wanted to address some of the points that you made about me, because I think

00:18:58.860 it's disingenuous for you to say that. And I don't think it's true. She could not even look me in the

00:19:04.080 eye. Uh, and she turned and ran from me, uh, which goes to just, I guess, show. Coward. Coward. Coward. 0.99

00:19:13.340 For sure. Um, to say one thing on national television about me, having never met me, never 0.97

00:19:18.880 talked to me then in real life, uh, not choosing not to talk to me, actually actively running away

00:19:24.740 from me, I think is incredibly telling, uh, of not just representative Porter, but, uh, society as a

00:19:30.400 whole, social media as a whole. And so again, uh, peers, I am so grateful for you and just thankful

00:19:36.140 that you took the time to come on. Um, and again, thankful for the stances that you've taken to,

00:19:40.900 um, shed light on these issues and shed light again on reasoning and logic and common sense.

00:19:47.820 So thank you very much. Thanks for having me. You keep pounding. I'm right behind you.

00:19:53.120 Not only is peers, a fierce fighter for what's right. Uh, I could also just sit and listen to

00:19:58.260 his accent all day long. Um, and so very grateful for him for coming on the gains for girls podcast.

00:20:03.780 Uh, I am also wearing my unit is crew neck. Everyone go to, we are unit is.com to check out

00:20:09.720 their apparel. Stop giving your money to organizations and companies that hate you.

00:20:14.940 Um, money matters where you put your money matters. Make sure it aligns with your values

00:20:19.860 and what, what matters to you. Um, make sure you check out, uh, Riley gain center.org. Uh,

00:20:26.540 this is a training program that I developed to help inspire and embolden and empower leaders

00:20:31.640 because this country certainly needs more of those. Uh, again, thank you for tuning in this

00:20:36.780 week and we will see you on the gains for girls podcast next week.

00:20:39.660 Yeah.

Gaines for Girls with Riley Gaines - November 29, 2023

Defending Real Women with Piers Morgan

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript