Gaines for Girls with Riley Gaines - EXCLUSIVE： Olympic Athlete Speaks Out

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00:01:17.620 Hello, everybody.

00:01:25.600 Welcome back to the Gains for Girls podcast.

00:01:27.820 Hopefully you saw my last episode,

00:01:30.000 which was the first episode in my new home studio.

00:01:33.360 This is what you can expect.

00:01:34.900 I hope you're watching visually.

00:01:37.220 If you're listening to audio, fantastic.

00:01:39.660 But hopefully at some point,

00:01:40.780 you get to switch over to youtube.com slash outkick,

00:01:43.440 watch an episode, see the new home studio.

00:01:45.360 I think they did a fantastic job and very excited

00:01:48.120 to be able to present myself,

00:01:51.080 my guest in a more professional setting and manner.

00:01:54.140 And we have lots of other exciting things to come

00:01:56.820 for the future of the Gains for Girls podcast.

00:02:00.480 Excited about today's episode.

00:02:03.320 It has been national attention for,

00:02:06.000 really since August of 2024,

00:02:09.040 going back to the Olympic Games.

00:02:11.820 You are probably going to guess

00:02:13.300 what we're going to talk about,

00:02:14.420 but have an exciting guest to talk about it with.

00:02:18.240 Before we get into any of that,

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00:04:08.240 Anyways, as I said,

00:04:09.720 we're talking about Amon Khalif.

00:04:12.740 This is the male boxer.

00:04:14.680 To be very, very clear on the front end of this episode,

00:04:18.360 I have never once said,

00:04:20.060 nor have I ever believed that Amon Khalif

00:04:22.980 or the other male by the name of Lin-Yu Ting

00:04:25.920 competing in the 2024 Olympic Games in women's boxing.

00:04:30.760 I've never believed that these athletes

00:04:33.180 were athletes who identified as trans or transgender,

00:04:36.700 but nonetheless, these are male athletes.

00:04:41.640 I could get super into the weeds.

00:04:43.440 We've actually had conversations on this podcast before,

00:04:45.860 people like Carol Hoeven,

00:04:47.160 on what it means to be intersex.

00:04:49.480 That's the word that's often thrown out there.

00:04:52.180 I don't prefer to use the word intersex.

00:04:54.380 I think people often hear that word

00:04:56.320 and they think of a third sex.

00:04:58.960 Intersex is not a third sex.

00:05:01.480 You can either be a male with a DSD

00:05:04.120 or a female with a DSD,

00:05:05.560 which is a diagnosed sex disorder.

00:05:07.900 These athletes, these male boxers,

00:05:09.780 are males with a DSD.

00:05:12.540 It is highly, highly likely

00:05:14.200 they have five ARD, five alpha reductase,

00:05:18.100 indicating they have a Y chromosome.

00:05:20.620 I remember watching this Olympic Games.

00:05:24.200 We've got some B-roll, some clips, again,

00:05:26.680 for those of you who are watching visually

00:05:28.420 of some of the refreshing scenes

00:05:31.460 that we saw following these fights, these matches.

00:05:36.220 It was detestable at the time.

00:05:38.720 It has somehow become even more detestable

00:05:42.100 as more and more medical reports

00:05:44.720 and these sex tests have been leaked to the public

00:05:48.240 by the IBA, the International Boxing Association,

00:05:51.660 by the IOC, the International Olympic Committee,

00:05:53.980 and by World Boxing at this point.

00:05:57.300 If you can recall, this athlete, Angel Carini,

00:06:01.400 she was a female boxer from Italy.

00:06:04.840 She fought for about 45 seconds

00:06:06.800 before stopping the fight,

00:06:09.120 going on to say she had never been punched

00:06:11.420 that hard in her entire life,

00:06:13.220 indicating it was unfair, it was unjust.

00:06:17.040 Anyways, she felt so much pressure

00:06:18.860 and backlash following this

00:06:20.340 that she went out and initially released an apology

00:06:24.000 saying that she was sorry

00:06:25.480 for feeling the way that she felt,

00:06:28.080 for canceling the fight,

00:06:29.140 for protecting her safety

00:06:30.400 in an instance where she believed

00:06:32.840 it really mattered,

00:06:33.640 where she could have gotten really hurt.

00:06:35.900 Following this, we had people like Jamel Hill.

00:06:39.380 If you don't know Jamel Hill,

00:06:41.400 I will say you are lucky.

00:06:43.280 She is a former ESPN sports reporter,

00:06:46.680 a sports host.

00:06:47.980 She is a self-proclaimed women's sports enthusiast.

00:06:51.400 Wouldn't that surprise you?

00:06:53.140 She posted this on Twitter

00:06:55.520 following the Olympic Games.

00:06:57.180 It says,

00:06:58.480 a lot of people need to apologize.

00:07:00.480 And again, refresher,

00:07:01.760 this is when Angel Carini issued her apology.

00:07:05.800 So Jamel Hill says,

00:07:06.520 a lot of people need to apologize.

00:07:07.720 I hope Khalif sues some people

00:07:09.800 over their reckless remarks.

00:07:11.660 All this story did was expose

00:07:12.940 ugliness, hatred, and transphobia.

00:07:15.360 As Carini admitted here,

00:07:16.460 she quit because she was upset

00:07:17.700 she was going to get her

00:07:18.860 A-double-S whooped

00:07:20.380 and other folks turn it into something else.

00:07:23.360 Well, Jamel Hill,

00:07:24.880 we'll be waiting for your apology

00:07:27.320 to Angel Carini

00:07:28.600 because now again,

00:07:29.600 with the new sex tests

00:07:31.660 and results and medical reports

00:07:32.960 that have been released,

00:07:33.760 it is public and accessible information

00:07:37.500 that this athlete is a male.

00:07:40.780 World Boxing has now barred him

00:07:42.420 from participating

00:07:43.440 in the upcoming Women's World Championship

00:07:45.720 until, actually, I say barred him.

00:07:48.600 They haven't fully barred him.

00:07:50.740 They have said,

00:07:51.280 we will let you compete

00:07:52.380 in the women's category

00:07:53.820 if you take a simple cheek swab,

00:07:56.480 a simple sex verification test.

00:07:59.140 Again, it is like a saliva.

00:08:01.840 You spit into a tube, basically.

00:08:03.760 And it confirms your karyotype.

00:08:05.920 You either have XX chromosomes

00:08:07.600 or XY chromosomes

00:08:09.160 or some sort of abnormality.

00:08:11.340 But even with the presence

00:08:12.400 of a Y chromosome,

00:08:13.200 it would be observable.

00:08:15.700 But Amon Khalif is not willing

00:08:17.300 to do that,

00:08:18.340 at least not thus far,

00:08:19.360 and time is running out.

00:08:20.400 So I think the question is,

00:08:22.280 I wonder why.

00:08:23.540 Why won't Amon Khalif

00:08:24.820 take the sex verification test?

00:08:26.980 I think I know.

00:08:28.640 The IOC knew.

00:08:31.100 Everyone who saw these reports knew.

00:08:33.080 I don't think it's fair

00:08:34.220 to say Jemele knew at the time,

00:08:36.560 but the IOC did.

00:08:37.800 Again, the information is public now.

00:08:39.240 So we'll be waiting

00:08:40.320 for your apology, Jemele Hill,

00:08:43.060 to a woman who was punched

00:08:45.600 in the face by a man

00:08:47.200 who intended to knock her unconscious

00:08:49.300 while the world watched this

00:08:52.120 and applauded this.

00:08:54.260 She was publicly humiliated,

00:08:56.240 is what happened.

00:08:57.280 She was forced to apologize

00:08:58.260 to a man who deliberately

00:08:59.680 stole her Olympic dream

00:09:01.540 and endangered her safety.

00:09:03.520 Again, one of the worst things

00:09:04.640 I've ever had to watch.

00:09:06.180 I will not hold my breath

00:09:07.900 for Jemele's apology.

00:09:10.000 I called her out on social media.

00:09:11.120 She's, of course,

00:09:12.200 responded with crickets,

00:09:13.680 as she is very good at doing.

00:09:16.380 Today's guest,

00:09:17.140 we are talking to an Olympian.

00:09:19.100 This is a winter sport

00:09:20.600 Olympic athlete,

00:09:21.860 but nonetheless,

00:09:22.460 he understands, of course,

00:09:23.400 the dynamic

00:09:23.980 of the Olympic Games,

00:09:25.680 of the Olympic Village,

00:09:26.760 what the athletes

00:09:27.540 are talking about.

00:09:28.840 We are talking to AJ Edelman.

00:09:31.140 He is an American-born

00:09:32.600 Israeli sliding sports athlete.

00:09:34.700 If you don't know

00:09:35.120 what sliding sports are,

00:09:37.200 I didn't either.

00:09:38.080 Truthfully,

00:09:38.360 when I heard this phrase,

00:09:39.200 I'm like, what is this?

00:09:40.620 Well, he is an eight-time

00:09:41.440 Israeli national champion

00:09:42.660 in skeleton and bob sledding.

00:09:46.180 He competed for Israel

00:09:47.620 in the 2018 Winter Olympics

00:09:49.560 in South Korea.

00:09:50.760 He is currently training

00:09:51.740 right now in Japan

00:09:52.880 for the 2026 Olympic Games,

00:09:55.620 so all exciting things,

00:09:57.100 and he's incredibly smart.

00:09:59.560 I hope you will come

00:10:00.820 to realize that

00:10:01.760 in the conversation

00:10:02.560 that we have today,

00:10:03.660 so check out this interview

00:10:04.820 here with AJ Edelman.

00:10:07.040 Well, AJ,

00:10:07.660 thank you for joining

00:10:08.400 the Gains for Girls podcast.

00:10:10.460 We have had tons of athletes

00:10:12.200 on before,

00:10:13.680 including at the Olympic level,

00:10:15.000 but I have never had

00:10:16.340 someone in your sport

00:10:18.040 come on,

00:10:19.140 so would you mind

00:10:20.060 just taking a little second

00:10:21.420 telling us about your sport

00:10:22.800 I think what I was

00:10:24.020 most curious about

00:10:24.920 is how you train

00:10:26.340 for a sport

00:10:27.040 that doesn't necessarily

00:10:28.440 have a strong presence

00:10:29.600 in your home country.

00:10:30.820 I mean,

00:10:31.100 I would imagine

00:10:31.720 there are many

00:10:32.840 logistical hurdles

00:10:33.920 that you've had to overcome.

00:10:36.800 Yeah,

00:10:37.040 I actually come from

00:10:38.660 two different Olympic sports.

00:10:40.160 I competed in the Olympics

00:10:41.280 in 2018

00:10:42.000 in a sport called skeleton.

00:10:43.460 It's a single-person

00:10:44.380 version of bobseye.

00:10:45.300 It's where you lie

00:10:45.980 on a lunch tray,

00:10:47.760 basically a lunch tray

00:10:48.680 with hockey blades

00:10:49.740 on the bottom.

00:10:50.420 You go head first,

00:10:51.860 chin an inch from the ice

00:10:53.240 about 95 miles an hour

00:10:54.860 and the fastest time

00:10:56.400 down at the bottom

00:10:57.180 wins the competition.

00:10:59.300 And then I switched

00:10:59.980 after the 2018 Olympics

00:11:01.360 to a sport called bobsled

00:11:02.980 because I figured

00:11:03.640 why do it just myself?

00:11:05.420 I'd love to have a team

00:11:06.640 doing it with me

00:11:07.380 and getting Israel

00:11:08.460 something that it's

00:11:09.080 never gotten before.

00:11:10.180 Obviously,

00:11:10.700 I was the first,

00:11:11.460 obviously,

00:11:12.400 but I was the first

00:11:13.560 Israeli sliding sport athlete

00:11:16.180 to do it

00:11:16.640 and looking to become

00:11:17.360 the first multi-sport Olympian

00:11:19.140 for Israel in 2026.

00:11:21.280 The

00:11:21.860 the sports of bobsled

00:11:22.980 and skeleton

00:11:23.480 are quite unique

00:11:25.560 in winter Olympic sport

00:11:27.080 and pretty much all sport

00:11:28.520 in that for six months

00:11:29.960 of the year,

00:11:30.920 you can't really do

00:11:32.020 any of the sport itself.

00:11:33.640 So in contrast to,

00:11:35.040 in contrast to,

00:11:36.800 let's say,

00:11:37.400 skiing where you can have

00:11:38.360 some sort of ski treadmills

00:11:39.420 or ski jumping,

00:11:40.240 you can jump into pools

00:11:41.440 or even luge,

00:11:42.220 which can be done on wheels.

00:11:43.740 Bob sudden skeleton,

00:11:44.560 the physics just don't work

00:11:45.640 if there's not actual ice.

00:11:47.420 So what we do

00:11:48.040 for the six months

00:11:48.880 of the off season

00:11:49.500 when there's no ice

00:11:50.280 on any of the tracks

00:11:51.060 in the world

00:11:51.500 is we sprint and lift

00:11:53.240 because the big components

00:11:54.840 of bobsled aside

00:11:55.820 from the driving aspect

00:11:56.780 is pushing this massive

00:11:58.440 vehicle on ice

00:11:59.700 from a standing position

00:12:01.280 as fast as you can

00:12:02.320 and then jumping inside.

00:12:03.400 So for 60 seconds

00:12:05.580 of the competition,

00:12:06.500 you might be going

00:12:07.260 and driving the thing

00:12:08.200 inside of it,

00:12:08.860 but for five seconds,

00:12:10.200 you're pushing it

00:12:10.920 as hard as you can

00:12:11.580 and we train six months

00:12:12.660 for that five seconds.

00:12:13.800 For every single country

00:12:15.080 in the world,

00:12:15.680 including Israel,

00:12:16.980 they generally don't have

00:12:18.400 tracks in their country.

00:12:19.200 There's only about 14 or 15

00:12:20.480 active tracks

00:12:21.200 in the whole world.

00:12:22.820 Teams just go

00:12:23.520 from track to track.

00:12:25.300 So even Great Britain

00:12:26.020 who's ranked second

00:12:26.740 or third in the world

00:12:27.420 at the moment,

00:12:28.420 they don't have a track.

00:12:29.500 They didn't have

00:12:30.120 a Winter Olympics.

00:12:30.900 There's no reason

00:12:31.380 to build a bobsled track

00:12:32.340 which is about $150 million

00:12:34.000 to build

00:12:34.680 if you're not having

00:12:35.740 a Winter Olympic Games.

00:12:37.160 So they just base themselves

00:12:38.400 in Germany,

00:12:39.360 Lillehammer, Norway.

00:12:40.420 If there's been

00:12:40.940 a Winter Olympics

00:12:41.740 in the spot

00:12:42.320 for the last 30, 40 years,

00:12:44.080 they'll probably have a track

00:12:44.900 and we sit there

00:12:46.000 during the winter

00:12:46.520 and we train.

00:12:47.100 We go from track

00:12:47.720 to track to track.

00:12:49.200 That is crazy

00:12:50.680 and it's crazy

00:12:51.600 to hear you say

00:12:52.460 you spend so much

00:12:53.700 of your time,

00:12:55.220 of your life,

00:12:56.100 of the past year

00:12:57.180 training for that initial

00:12:58.820 five seconds of the race.

00:13:00.120 It reminds me

00:13:00.600 of my sport of swimming

00:13:01.820 where similarly,

00:13:03.500 you train all year

00:13:04.620 to shave,

00:13:05.340 I mean,

00:13:05.680 merely one hundredths

00:13:06.820 of a second

00:13:07.500 off of your best time.

00:13:09.980 But it's something

00:13:10.520 I don't think

00:13:11.120 that normal people,

00:13:13.460 we call them narps,

00:13:15.080 non-athletic regular people,

00:13:16.420 that's the phrase

00:13:17.180 that we used in college.

00:13:19.220 People who don't

00:13:20.140 necessarily play sports,

00:13:21.280 especially not

00:13:21.780 at the highest level,

00:13:23.100 it's a foreign concept

00:13:24.080 to them.

00:13:25.000 So again,

00:13:25.360 the training,

00:13:26.000 the sacrifice

00:13:26.560 that you have to make,

00:13:27.940 I mean,

00:13:28.420 right now,

00:13:29.160 you're in Japan,

00:13:30.220 right?

00:13:32.140 Yeah,

00:13:32.660 I've been pretty much

00:13:33.900 alone on my athletic

00:13:35.600 Olympic journey

00:13:36.440 for the last 12 years.

00:13:37.780 It's been a constant

00:13:39.120 and I'm from

00:13:41.200 what we call

00:13:41.880 a small nation.

00:13:43.060 So a small nation

00:13:43.740 is a nation

00:13:44.260 that doesn't have

00:13:45.040 extremely developed

00:13:46.180 sporting facilities.

00:13:47.680 It doesn't have

00:13:48.120 the resources behind it.

00:13:49.780 Bobsled and skeleton

00:13:50.840 are racing sports.

00:13:52.360 We call them

00:13:52.800 Formula One on ice.

00:13:53.720 It's very,

00:13:54.280 very resource dependent.

00:13:55.620 But Israel has never

00:13:56.920 put any money

00:13:58.100 into the program

00:13:58.900 and so you're on your own,

00:14:00.520 right?

00:14:00.660 There's no infrastructure

00:14:01.400 set up.

00:14:01.860 You got to carry

00:14:02.380 an Olympic program

00:14:03.060 on your back

00:14:03.600 if you're doing this.

00:14:04.360 So for the last 12 years,

00:14:05.920 I've been in,

00:14:06.860 in the off seasons,

00:14:07.660 I've been in Jamaica,

00:14:08.700 I've been in Calgary,

00:14:09.440 Canada,

00:14:09.960 I've been in New York

00:14:10.800 once when I was trying

00:14:11.640 to make a relationship

00:14:12.520 for the same time.

00:14:13.740 It didn't work.

00:14:14.640 But now I'm in Japan

00:14:15.860 because cheap cost of living,

00:14:17.220 great athletic facilities

00:14:18.200 and great physio.

00:14:19.840 I mean,

00:14:19.980 Japan really does sports

00:14:21.000 very well.

00:14:21.880 They understand

00:14:22.300 the sporting culture

00:14:23.080 just from young to old.

00:14:24.900 And I'm,

00:14:25.240 I'm,

00:14:25.760 I'm a really big believer

00:14:27.340 in just the power

00:14:28.280 of sporting endeavors.

00:14:29.820 You don't have to be

00:14:30.780 a professional

00:14:31.320 to do sport.

00:14:32.240 Sport is just about

00:14:32.980 achieving the best

00:14:34.280 version of yourself

00:14:35.260 or the best achievement

00:14:36.280 that you can possibly achieve.

00:14:37.940 And Japan really

00:14:38.900 embraces that.

00:14:39.740 I mean,

00:14:39.860 it's an aging society,

00:14:41.080 but everyone's active

00:14:42.240 and everyone really

00:14:43.100 puts a lot

00:14:44.040 into their nutrition

00:14:44.760 and that's why

00:14:45.840 it's just such a great place

00:14:46.920 for me.

00:14:47.580 But it is very isolating.

00:14:49.160 I think Olympic journeys,

00:14:50.060 sport journeys in general,

00:14:51.160 as you know,

00:14:51.780 are very isolating.

00:14:53.180 They're very lonely

00:14:53.980 because you're always

00:14:55.120 going to be your biggest

00:14:55.760 cheerleader

00:14:56.220 and you're going to have

00:14:56.760 your parents,

00:14:57.660 but there's going to be

00:14:58.320 99....

00:14:59.160 I mean,

00:14:59.480 what you're trying to do

00:15:00.520 is something

00:15:00.780 that's never been done before.

00:15:02.420 Right?

00:15:02.580 So what that means

00:15:03.220 is you're going to run

00:15:03.740 into 99.9% of people

00:15:05.660 who think that it can't be done

00:15:07.460 or that it shouldn't be done

00:15:08.820 just because it hasn't been done.

00:15:10.640 So over the years,

00:15:12.580 I've matured to the point

00:15:13.580 where the naysayers

00:15:14.640 and the people who are,

00:15:15.760 you know,

00:15:15.960 they laugh at it.

00:15:16.760 It just,

00:15:17.340 it adds fuel to the fire

00:15:18.380 and I think that's just

00:15:19.040 an internal sort of

00:15:20.320 anyone who pushes

00:15:21.040 towards the Olympics.

00:15:21.880 And I always say

00:15:22.160 pushes towards,

00:15:23.120 not Olympians,

00:15:24.260 just because so much

00:15:25.520 of the time,

00:15:26.100 as you very well know,

00:15:27.220 the difference between

00:15:28.420 actually having made it

00:15:29.700 to the Olympics

00:15:30.200 and not having made it

00:15:31.380 to the Olympics,

00:15:31.780 it's not a skill issue.

00:15:33.080 It's not a result issue

00:15:35.260 necessarily,

00:15:35.800 so to speak.

00:15:36.600 It could be whether

00:15:37.500 a coach liked you enough

00:15:38.860 to put you on the team.

00:15:39.940 It could be whether

00:15:40.720 you spoke out

00:15:41.460 about the wrong thing

00:15:42.360 as we might be

00:15:43.040 talking about today.

00:15:43.980 There's so many factors

00:15:45.080 that go into making the game.

00:15:46.440 So everyone who pursues

00:15:47.440 an Olympic journey,

00:15:48.960 whether they made it or not,

00:15:51.000 I respect it

00:15:52.160 like pretty much as equally

00:15:54.000 because you never know,

00:15:55.320 you know,

00:15:55.660 whether it was just,

00:15:56.500 I mean,

00:15:56.680 sometimes it even is,

00:15:57.880 I've heard of someone

00:15:58.640 whose car broke down

00:15:59.620 and they were favored

00:16:00.940 to make the games

00:16:02.100 and their car broke down.

00:16:03.060 They just didn't make

00:16:03.680 the competition time.

00:16:05.420 So, I mean,

00:16:06.760 you know this sports journey

00:16:08.080 very well,

00:16:08.600 but it's lonely.

00:16:09.720 It gets very,

00:16:10.400 very lonely.

00:16:11.340 But I have,

00:16:11.700 I have an amazing dog

00:16:13.480 with me.

00:16:13.960 I have,

00:16:14.280 I have Lulu the Shiba Inu.

00:16:15.560 He's,

00:16:16.120 he's a team mascot.

00:16:16.940 He goes with me

00:16:17.520 wherever I go.

00:16:18.180 So I'm not that lonely.

00:16:19.580 I do have an amazing dog

00:16:20.660 with me,

00:16:21.080 but otherwise it is,

00:16:23.300 it is a solemn dream.

00:16:25.120 That's pretty cool.

00:16:25.800 So you have a Shiba Inu

00:16:27.460 in Japan,

00:16:28.520 which they're native to there,

00:16:29.680 right?

00:16:29.840 Like that's like,

00:16:31.000 that's like their traditional

00:16:31.980 Japanese dog,

00:16:33.060 no?

00:16:34.340 Everywhere we go,

00:16:35.500 people mob him

00:16:36.280 because he's extremely personable.

00:16:38.040 He was trained from,

00:16:39.460 he was trained from,

00:16:40.420 from when he was born,

00:16:41.300 essentially,

00:16:41.600 to be a trained service animal

00:16:43.340 to help me out.

00:16:44.100 Um,

00:16:44.840 and so he loves,

00:16:46.100 he loves people.

00:16:46.940 He loves human beings.

00:16:47.700 And whenever we go somewhere

00:16:49.080 and he's just sitting in a basket

00:16:50.260 on the front of the bike,

00:16:51.520 people will come up,

00:16:52.260 they ask,

00:16:52.540 take pictures that he's,

00:16:53.760 he's the national treasure

00:16:54.840 of a national treasure breed

00:16:56.320 of dog.

00:16:57.220 Uh,

00:16:57.460 so I've benefited a lot from,

00:16:59.240 but he's also a great mascot

00:17:00.560 for the team.

00:17:01.760 I love that.

00:17:02.640 And something I can relate to,

00:17:04.380 uh,

00:17:04.960 on a very,

00:17:05.840 on a very deep level,

00:17:07.300 I've got lots of dogs,

00:17:09.160 I've got horses.

00:17:09.920 There's nothing,

00:17:10.860 uh,

00:17:11.460 I believe more unconditional

00:17:12.740 than an animal's love,

00:17:14.700 your pet's love,

00:17:15.480 really a dog's love.

00:17:16.840 Uh,

00:17:17.320 so that's pretty special.

00:17:18.140 And to hear you say,

00:17:19.240 right,

00:17:19.520 like you are in the top 1%

00:17:22.160 of the top 1%.

00:17:23.820 Again,

00:17:24.240 something that,

00:17:25.000 that is,

00:17:25.840 is really unfathomable

00:17:27.200 unless you're there,

00:17:28.980 unless you're,

00:17:29.680 you're at that stage show.

00:17:30.900 Incredible.

00:17:32.180 Um,

00:17:32.760 you mentioned some of the factors

00:17:34.700 that go into making an Olympic team.

00:17:36.380 One of those things being speaking out,

00:17:38.060 being outspoken,

00:17:38.900 using your platform,

00:17:39.920 to,

00:17:40.320 uh,

00:17:41.160 advocate for what you believe to be is right.

00:17:44.580 Uh,

00:17:44.760 of course I have seen the effects of this,

00:17:47.180 both the good that comes with it.

00:17:48.420 Of course,

00:17:49.100 the negative that comes with it,

00:17:50.660 uh,

00:17:51.540 after taking this stance that I have,

00:17:53.580 uh,

00:17:53.820 just about three years ago at this point

00:17:55.660 of the issue of allowing men

00:17:58.260 into women's sports.

00:17:59.400 Now I was so excited to talk with you,

00:18:01.400 of course,

00:18:02.100 given your background,

00:18:03.100 given that you're an Olympian,

00:18:04.120 given that you have many friends

00:18:05.260 who are Olympians,

00:18:06.420 who have competed in the games,

00:18:07.920 both,

00:18:08.280 I would imagine the summer and winter

00:18:09.820 games,

00:18:10.320 but this past Olympics,

00:18:12.620 uh,

00:18:13.100 the,

00:18:13.280 the 24 Olympics that were in Paris,

00:18:15.320 if it's made national news at the time,

00:18:18.540 it has continued to stay in national news,

00:18:20.420 especially over the past few weeks,

00:18:21.780 where in the sport of women's boxing,

00:18:24.800 you had not just one man actually,

00:18:27.260 but two male athletes,

00:18:28.620 uh,

00:18:29.400 competing both male athletes,

00:18:31.120 ultimately to go on to win gold medals

00:18:33.140 in their respective weight categories.

00:18:35.360 Uh,

00:18:36.140 really just a travesty.

00:18:37.480 I remember watching that Olympic games,

00:18:39.760 uh,

00:18:40.160 watching this,

00:18:40.760 the fight specifically with Angel Karini,

00:18:43.780 an athlete from Italy and Amon Khalif,

00:18:46.320 who is the athlete from Algeria,

00:18:48.660 who sex tests and results and reports have been leaked,

00:18:52.680 uh,

00:18:53.180 on multiple occasions at this point,

00:18:54.580 that he is a male,

00:18:55.940 uh,

00:18:56.820 watching this fight.

00:18:57.480 It took about maybe 45 seconds.

00:18:59.480 Actually,

00:18:59.800 I think it was 46 seconds,

00:19:01.660 uh,

00:19:01.800 a few hits to the face.

00:19:03.700 Yeah.

00:19:04.060 And Karini ended up forfeiting the fight.

00:19:07.080 Call me crazy,

00:19:07.720 but it's almost as if women don't want to be punched in the face by a male

00:19:11.320 as the world watches and applauds.

00:19:13.280 We have a clip of it.

00:19:14.200 Let's play it here.

00:19:20.780 Solid straight right hand.

00:19:24.860 From Khalifa.

00:19:29.480 Yeah.

00:19:30.280 It breaks my heart.

00:19:32.180 Uh,

00:19:32.420 we have one more clip.

00:19:33.400 I just want to show really quickly to,

00:19:34.880 to really like,

00:19:36.960 like hammer home how insane this idea is that we're allowing this to happen.

00:19:42.260 Uh,

00:19:42.780 it's a side-by-side of the,

00:19:44.940 the final seconds of that fight,

00:19:46.480 uh,

00:19:47.360 and a South Park episode.

00:19:49.320 Let's play that really quick.

00:19:51.280 It's gone,

00:19:51.920 my mom.

00:19:55.260 Hey,

00:19:55.980 you.

00:19:57.300 I'm gone.

00:19:58.660 It's gone.

00:19:59.480 I mean,

00:20:06.580 it would be objectively funny if there weren't real consequences.

00:20:10.240 Again,

00:20:10.800 if a real woman wasn't being punched in the face,

00:20:13.260 is this not glorified male violence against women?

00:20:19.680 There's a lot to it.

00:20:21.080 There's a lot of facets to breaking down the barriers of allowing men into women's spaces.

00:20:27.340 And then,

00:20:28.020 uh,

00:20:29.280 using that as cover,

00:20:31.680 you know,

00:20:31.800 using social justice as cover to allow them to physically dominate them,

00:20:36.060 to put it in the kindest of ways.

00:20:38.660 The,

00:20:39.380 when I was watching it,

00:20:41.220 I was actually quite heartbroken.

00:20:42.780 I've been heartbroken for a very long time about this sort of issue.

00:20:46.960 It came into semi-prominence in 2020 when a weightlifter,

00:20:52.920 uh,

00:20:53.560 who was trans got in the heavyweight division,

00:20:56.320 I believe,

00:20:56.880 into the games from,

00:20:58.180 I think it was New Zealand.

00:20:59.560 This is an issue that ultimately it touches on.

00:21:02.840 It's not just,

00:21:03.700 it's not just male violence against women.

00:21:07.340 There,

00:21:07.860 there are certain forces biologically that men and women are built to withstand,

00:21:13.260 right?

00:21:13.560 Men can't withstand childbirth,

00:21:15.340 right?

00:21:15.640 Men can't withstand a lot of things that women can withstand.

00:21:18.560 And women's physiology is not built to withstand a certain amount of physical impact to the neck,

00:21:23.520 to the head.

00:21:24.620 Their muscles are not as developed there.

00:21:26.360 We see it a lot in,

00:21:27.400 in sliding sports,

00:21:28.520 in fact,

00:21:28.960 in skeleton where the neck is exposed over the sled and the G forces.

00:21:33.260 There's five G forces on the head.

00:21:35.580 Female neck muscularity is not generally built to withstand massive forces that press down as a lever on the head.

00:21:42.640 And they suffer severe beatings resulting in CTE later in their life to,

00:21:47.700 to their brain.

00:21:49.340 What we're seeing when a man who has all of the physiological advantages in power output,

00:21:55.440 in stamina,

00:21:56.740 in punching,

00:21:57.600 in,

00:21:57.820 in,

00:21:58.100 in punching power,

00:21:59.640 everything that is designed to give them a physiological advantage,

00:22:03.260 in,

00:22:04.000 in impact,

00:22:05.580 punch a woman with such force.

00:22:08.180 It has physiologically,

00:22:10.780 physiological devastating effects.

00:22:13.440 It's,

00:22:14.000 it's not right.

00:22:14.700 It's not right from a,

00:22:15.460 from a fairness standpoint,

00:22:16.400 but it's not right from the fact that it's dangerous.

00:22:18.860 It's just at the end of the day,

00:22:20.620 dangerous.

00:22:22.040 That's right.

00:22:22.980 I remember the instance you're referring to in 2020 with the athlete named Laurel Hubbard,

00:22:27.840 I believe from New Zealand,

00:22:29.360 uh,

00:22:30.000 in the sport of weightlifting,

00:22:31.060 which I think the thing about both of these scenarios,

00:22:33.980 and again,

00:22:34.580 to your point,

00:22:35.280 very different in the fact that,

00:22:36.600 uh,

00:22:37.260 Amon Khalif and the other male boxer,

00:22:39.300 I believe his name is Lin Yuting.

00:22:40.980 They're not necessarily trans,

00:22:42.380 right?

00:22:42.600 I've never,

00:22:43.020 I never believed they were.

00:22:44.440 I'm not claiming they are,

00:22:45.540 uh,

00:22:46.060 but nonetheless,

00:22:46.840 still a male athlete,

00:22:48.020 which kind of just debunks the whole,

00:22:50.220 you know,

00:22:50.580 your argument is transphobic thing.

00:22:52.180 This has nothing to do with being trans,

00:22:53.660 but everything to do with being physiologically by all by biology or biologically male.

00:23:00.340 And that's what these two athletes are.

00:23:01.900 Uh,

00:23:02.340 but I remember the Laurel Hubbard,

00:23:03.620 uh,

00:23:04.400 incident.

00:23:04.720 And,

00:23:05.020 and again,

00:23:05.480 the crazy thing is this is weightlifting and boxing where you would imagine there are,

00:23:10.540 are,

00:23:10.720 are very significant differences between men and women.

00:23:13.200 You can argue some other sports there,

00:23:15.520 there maybe isn't as much of a difference,

00:23:17.740 but in boxing and weightlifting,

00:23:19.260 uh,

00:23:19.900 it is,

00:23:20.280 is on display for everyone to see.

00:23:22.920 And as I said,

00:23:23.900 two leaked sex tests and medical reports,

00:23:27.060 uh,

00:23:27.540 were released following the 20,

00:23:28.840 uh,

00:23:29.380 2024 Olympic games.

00:23:30.820 I think we have a picture of those two,

00:23:33.000 two sex tests,

00:23:33.800 uh,

00:23:34.800 but released pretty immediately,

00:23:36.880 uh,

00:23:37.660 was the,

00:23:38.300 the test results indicating that an MRI had determined that Kalief had no uterus,

00:23:43.240 but instead an internal,

00:23:44.560 uh,

00:23:45.380 set of testicles,

00:23:46.640 a micropenis,

00:23:47.640 uh,

00:23:48.200 chromosomal testing further confirmed that he has,

00:23:50.420 uh,

00:23:51.020 XY karyotypes,

00:23:52.180 which of course is the,

00:23:53.140 the male,

00:23:53.740 uh,

00:23:54.360 chromosomes and hormone levels,

00:23:56.800 uh,

00:23:57.360 that were typical of that,

00:23:58.660 of a,

00:23:59.180 a standard male.

00:24:00.500 Uh,

00:24:01.000 so again,

00:24:01.920 there was no denying this.

00:24:04.080 Obviously you weren't at the summer games where this happened,

00:24:06.820 given your sport is a,

00:24:08.340 a winter Olympic sport.

00:24:10.300 Um,

00:24:10.900 but I think of other people,

00:24:12.020 even like Castor Semenya,

00:24:13.300 for example,

00:24:13.820 do you think there were conversations in the Olympic village surrounding this?

00:24:20.760 We were having,

00:24:21.780 uh,

00:24:22.380 even in our sport,

00:24:23.220 we were having conversations about Castor like a decade ago.

00:24:27.120 Uh,

00:24:27.520 everyone knew Castor,

00:24:29.020 uh,

00:24:29.400 was a man.

00:24:30.240 Everyone knew,

00:24:31.140 um,

00:24:31.980 everyone knew Kalief,

00:24:33.020 even,

00:24:33.400 uh,

00:24:33.760 friends that I had in the village,

00:24:35.120 uh,

00:24:35.840 they were all talking about it.

00:24:37.020 It was kind of in hush tones.

00:24:38.120 They all knew that Kalief was a man.

00:24:40.540 The,

00:24:41.140 the issue about,

00:24:43.040 whether people know or don't know,

00:24:45.840 or someone,

00:24:46.620 someone,

00:24:47.180 you know,

00:24:47.660 a lot of the,

00:24:48.920 a lot of the misdirection goes to someone has lived as a,

00:24:53.640 right.

00:24:54.040 And,

00:24:54.400 and sport is about the pursuit of personal excellence and sporting competition

00:24:59.600 is about the application of that against the fair field of play.

00:25:03.100 So includes doping and includes biology.

00:25:05.420 If someone was accidentally doping,

00:25:07.520 they're still disqualified.

00:25:09.000 Their results are still disqualified.

00:25:10.680 They might not get a lifelong ban,

00:25:12.480 but their results were unfair.

00:25:14.740 Right.

00:25:14.880 And so it's never appropriate to destroy the basic fairness of a

00:25:18.400 competitive field and a field in sporting competition,

00:25:20.940 just as a principle together,

00:25:23.180 as a sacrifice to the feelings or the lived experiences of someone.

00:25:27.520 There's a reason the destruction of males,

00:25:29.220 of female sport as a class of sport is in and of itself.

00:25:33.700 It has an objective line.

00:25:35.520 And when we destroy that objective line and it gates the entire purpose of

00:25:39.380 segregating sport by biological sex at all,

00:25:42.320 it's the very fact that sport is segregated by sex to begin with.

00:25:46.160 It acknowledges that there's a reality that cannot be erased through feelings.

00:25:50.020 It cannot be erased through hormones.

00:25:51.440 It cannot be erased through.

00:25:52.520 I didn't know.

00:25:53.340 I was a dude.

00:25:54.820 It,

00:25:55.220 it,

00:25:55.420 it's tragic.

00:25:56.900 Right.

00:25:57.380 But in these specific cases,

00:25:59.580 right.

00:25:59.800 In Khalif's case,

00:26:01.340 everyone knew everyone knew everyone I spoke to in the village.

00:26:05.500 They knew we were quite sure Khalif knew there was,

00:26:08.920 there was even talk about why from a,

00:26:11.020 a Muslim country,

00:26:12.440 would they parade around a female on a man's shoulders there?

00:26:15.880 Where we all knew at all serious athletes.

00:26:20.260 I mean,

00:26:20.940 by looking,

00:26:21.720 but also we just kind of knew that the results were out there,

00:26:24.260 that this was not right.

00:26:26.240 This was not an even playing field.

00:26:27.940 It was not only dangerous,

00:26:29.620 but it was systematically part of an effort to destroy the line that clearly

00:26:34.840 delineates female sport from other types of sport.

00:26:38.180 Yeah.

00:26:41.780 I wondered that about the Muslim man portion that you mentioned,

00:26:46.560 right?

00:26:46.760 Like in Muslim countries,

00:26:48.500 that's not traditionally how you would handle or approach or treat women in

00:26:54.220 that manner.

00:26:54.960 So I thought the exact same thing.

00:26:56.600 It's interesting.

00:26:57.120 You say that,

00:26:57.800 and you mentioned doping,

00:26:59.040 which of course is banned,

00:27:00.960 right?

00:27:01.240 Like any sort of performance enhancing drug is,

00:27:03.800 is,

00:27:04.700 I mean,

00:27:04.940 it is just that it enhances your performance.

00:27:07.060 Therefore it is illegal in,

00:27:08.740 in sports,

00:27:09.300 not even just at the Olympic level,

00:27:10.700 uh,

00:27:11.440 but,

00:27:11.860 but really stemming all the way down,

00:27:13.520 uh,

00:27:14.220 which I believe of course that biological eligibility and doping belong in the

00:27:19.000 same ethical category with really the,

00:27:20.900 the biological eligibility portion being much more severe even,

00:27:25.060 uh,

00:27:25.820 than doping,

00:27:26.740 uh,

00:27:27.600 following this world boxing has now required mandatory testing.

00:27:32.640 Uh,

00:27:33.300 this means that Amon Khalif could submit to a,

00:27:36.960 a simple cheek swab.

00:27:38.060 Like it's,

00:27:38.680 it's very,

00:27:39.400 it's not invasive.

00:27:40.440 It's cheap.

00:27:41.360 It's effective.

00:27:42.060 It's easy to do,

00:27:42.880 uh,

00:27:43.640 to ultimately prove any sort of chromosomal abnormalities or,

00:27:48.360 or karyotypes.

00:27:49.840 Uh,

00:27:50.360 but Amon Khalif is not willing to do it,

00:27:52.480 which I think says a lot.

00:27:54.020 How do you think Olympic level athletes would respond to the idea of sex

00:27:59.260 testing?

00:27:59.640 We've already seen where world athletics,

00:28:01.360 which is the,

00:28:02.360 uh,

00:28:02.960 international governing body of truck and field sports,

00:28:05.480 uh,

00:28:06.080 they've already implemented this going forward.

00:28:07.620 I think Castor Semenya and that specific case had a lot to do with

00:28:11.080 this.

00:28:11.600 Uh,

00:28:12.000 so they've already said they're going to do it.

00:28:13.320 Now we have world boxing,

00:28:14.440 a couple other,

00:28:15.060 um,

00:28:15.980 specific sport governing bodies have said they're going to do this.

00:28:18.980 What do you think the response is from Olympic athletes to the idea of

00:28:22.160 this?

00:28:24.900 I think it's welcome.

00:28:26.080 Anyone who has an idea or a concept of fairness in sport should welcome this.

00:28:31.800 The,

00:28:32.760 I mean,

00:28:33.740 you mentioned invasive invasive doesn't really,

00:28:37.020 um,

00:28:38.300 I'm not sure how,

00:28:39.060 how,

00:28:39.340 how much people are familiar with the doping process,

00:28:42.160 but,

00:28:42.560 um,

00:28:43.240 but in doping control,

00:28:44.380 if you don't,

00:28:45.080 if you don't pee,

00:28:46.580 right,

00:28:46.800 if you don't pee in time,

00:28:47.560 let's say you haven't drank for a while and you're dehydrated,

00:28:49.840 a person will watch you and it follow you throughout the day and

00:28:53.780 physically watch you in private urinate into a cup.

00:28:57.220 They will inspect your appendage,

00:28:59.000 so to speak.

00:28:59.920 And,

00:29:00.320 and there's a reason for it.

00:29:02.180 Because there is a rash of cheating that,

00:29:05.120 that has taken place and it's only gotten more advanced in recent times.

00:29:08.780 So when we talk about invasiveness,

00:29:10.860 invasiveness is irrelevant to a process of ensuring a fair competitive field.

00:29:14.900 And it's irrelevant nowadays in particular because it's become an issue,

00:29:19.860 right?

00:29:20.380 If it wasn't an issue,

00:29:21.660 if no one ever made it an issue,

00:29:23.800 if we didn't widely accept this,

00:29:25.840 this concept that men could simply switch divisions based on their feelings,

00:29:31.780 and taking some hormones,

00:29:33.400 then,

00:29:34.040 then sex testing wouldn't really be a thing now,

00:29:37.500 but it is a thing now.

00:29:38.840 And we need to submit to it because that's how,

00:29:41.400 that's just how competitive sport works.

00:29:43.320 I think that when,

00:29:45.060 when people,

00:29:45.940 generally people have,

00:29:47.700 um,

00:29:48.400 uh,

00:29:48.620 two,

00:29:48.960 like a number of responses when it comes to the issue of trans and sports,

00:29:52.140 and it always shifts,

00:29:53.640 right?

00:29:54.160 It starts with,

00:29:55.760 well,

00:29:55.840 it's not a problem,

00:29:56.820 right?

00:29:57.300 It's not a problem because there's no evidence yet.

00:30:01.260 No one has,

00:30:01.900 has tested it.

00:30:03.340 Okay.

00:30:03.580 Well,

00:30:03.720 that doesn't make it right.

00:30:05.180 Right.

00:30:05.520 So then when you say it doesn't make it right,

00:30:07.140 they'll go,

00:30:07.820 well,

00:30:08.960 where's everyone winning competitions that still doesn't make it right.

00:30:13.300 Right.

00:30:13.740 Just because no one has,

00:30:15.520 I mean,

00:30:15.800 there are people are winning,

00:30:16.800 but it doesn't matter.

00:30:17.960 It doesn't make it right.

00:30:19.420 It's wrong.

00:30:20.100 If I tried to steal,

00:30:21.620 but I'm unsuccessful at the theft,

00:30:23.480 it was wrong to try to steal.

00:30:25.220 We don't legalize the theft.

00:30:27.380 This is theft.

00:30:28.460 What you've said about doping,

00:30:30.400 it is entirely in the same realm of doping because it tilts the competitive field away from something that is fair.

00:30:36.780 The final thing that people have always said is,

00:30:39.080 well,

00:30:39.200 then Michael Phelps and people like Michael Phelps who are born with big flipper hands,

00:30:43.340 right?

00:30:44.500 Yes.

00:30:44.960 But that is within the bounds of what we acceptably construe as a competitive field as a,

00:30:52.560 on average,

00:30:53.920 a man is competing against men.

00:30:56.240 He does have like,

00:30:58.080 just like basketball players can jump.

00:31:01.260 Basketball players can jump higher than my head.

00:31:03.660 I can't jump for a hoot.

00:31:05.300 Right.

00:31:05.480 But it doesn't,

00:31:06.200 it doesn't entitle me to a place on an NBA team for people who can't jump.

00:31:11.880 It does.

00:31:12.700 If you are born biologically superior within your class,

00:31:15.760 that's just sport.

00:31:17.020 But if you are born into an entirely different class,

00:31:19.720 that's the eraser of sport.

00:31:21.940 Right.

00:31:22.460 And so,

00:31:23.120 and so pay attention whenever people,

00:31:24.980 if you know,

00:31:25.720 if you're at home and you're watching this and you're thinking to yourself about this

00:31:29.320 sort of issue,

00:31:30.260 try not to get bogged down into the individual arguments about why and why not,

00:31:36.160 and draw yourself a boundary of what is and is not fair.

00:31:39.400 Go always to the principle of it.

00:31:41.540 Why is there a segregation between male and female sport?

00:31:44.500 It's not for feelings.

00:31:45.740 It's not because women wanted their own division,

00:31:48.360 right?

00:31:48.940 It was to protect men from erasing female accomplishment,

00:31:53.200 essentially.

00:31:54.100 Right.

00:31:54.260 And that's also what happens when we have men who cross over because they feel a certain way

00:31:59.420 into the female categories is you're erasing centuries of women's rights advocacy,

00:32:07.520 people pushing for themselves to achieve things that they weren't able to achieve before.

00:32:12.640 And just because someone now feels like that or wants to be that,

00:32:16.940 it doesn't make them that.

00:32:18.200 And it erases a ton of that history and accomplishment.

00:32:21.920 It's so true.

00:32:22.920 That was incredibly well put,

00:32:25.020 concise,

00:32:25.660 holistic,

00:32:26.180 easy to follow.

00:32:27.540 I talk to people all the time who feel themselves to be bogged down when,

00:32:32.040 when people on the other side get into the specific points,

00:32:35.040 like you're saying about Michael Phelps.

00:32:36.360 He has more elasticity in his shoulder joints or whatever crazy things they'll say.

00:32:42.960 Guess what?

00:32:43.440 That would equate to about a few decimals of a performance advantage gap,

00:32:48.700 which again,

00:32:49.340 in sport,

00:32:50.040 there are some people who are taller.

00:32:51.460 There are some people with bigger feet.

00:32:52.720 Of course,

00:32:53.200 those are things that are accepted,

00:32:54.820 but the performance advantage gap between,

00:32:57.880 let's say,

00:32:59.460 the world record holder and the men's 200 backstroke versus the world record holder

00:33:04.180 and the women's 200 backstroke is about 10 to 12%.

00:33:06.860 That's,

00:33:07.260 that's the case across the board in any sport that is subjective to time and distance,

00:33:12.800 like track and field or swimming.

00:33:14.480 Almost always a man at that level competing laterally is 10 to 12% faster than the woman.

00:33:21.180 That is,

00:33:21.400 that is not something that can be overcome.

00:33:24.060 No amount of training,

00:33:25.240 no amount of sleep,

00:33:26.260 no amount of talent,

00:33:27.160 hard work,

00:33:28.160 nutrition,

00:33:29.160 diet,

00:33:29.440 yet nothing can overcome a 10 to 12% performance advantage gap in that way.

00:33:35.780 And to your point about the doping,

00:33:37.420 I can't even tell you how many drug tests we had to take competing at the national level,

00:33:42.900 competing in college,

00:33:43.780 even where you go into this room,

00:33:46.180 a bathroom,

00:33:47.200 the stalled door has to remain open.

00:33:49.220 You have someone like literally propped up in the door,

00:33:51.980 watching you pull your pants down to your ankles.

00:33:55.000 We had to lift our shirts up,

00:33:56.140 do a three 60 spin to make sure there was no device or contraption,

00:34:00.280 uh,

00:34:01.020 and then sit with a cup between your hands and pee into the cup and then hand the cup.

00:34:06.480 Like it was the most like,

00:34:08.440 like violating process.

00:34:10.480 But again,

00:34:11.180 we were willing to do that because we knew we had to,

00:34:14.900 to prove again,

00:34:15.860 that we are healthy,

00:34:16.660 that,

00:34:17.040 that,

00:34:17.220 uh,

00:34:17.880 we are pure and in the way that we are competing,

00:34:20.120 no one ever complained about it because it was a good thing at the end of the day.

00:34:23.960 So totally agree with you there.

00:34:26.320 And again,

00:34:26.580 people don't understand that.

00:34:28.160 And if we're talking about invasive,

00:34:29.380 let's go back to COVID.

00:34:31.100 A simple cheek swab is a whole lot less invasive than getting your brain essentially caressed and swabbed with a six foot long Q-tip,

00:34:40.520 uh,

00:34:41.220 that went through your nose.

00:34:42.660 So those arguments I agree are,

00:34:44.660 are totally malarkey in my eyes.

00:34:48.300 Um,

00:34:49.060 on top of speaking about the issue of fairness in sports,

00:34:52.840 uh,

00:34:53.640 you have used your platform and openly spoken about what it's like to be a Jew in a time where anti-Semitism is rampant,

00:35:01.440 not just in America,

00:35:02.820 but,

00:35:03.260 but globally.

00:35:04.780 Uh,

00:35:05.280 what has this experience been like for you?

00:35:08.080 I think,

00:35:08.400 especially as an athlete.

00:35:09.640 So I think it's given me a,

00:35:13.140 a very,

00:35:14.140 I mean,

00:35:15.200 athletes tend to think a lot.

00:35:18.040 They tend to ruminate a lot.

00:35:19.340 They go over their results.

00:35:20.960 They go over just issues that they're confronting.

00:35:23.320 Anti-Semitism has been,

00:35:24.520 it's always been a problem for me in sport.

00:35:27.200 I experienced extreme anti-Semitism at the 2018 games.

00:35:30.480 It's originally what pushed me to retire from sport altogether.

00:35:33.840 Um,

00:35:34.280 a jury official at our competition just before the competition started,

00:35:38.140 uh,

00:35:38.920 disqualified a very key portion of my equipment.

00:35:41.440 And there was no rule to,

00:35:43.740 to do so except for the rule in the rule book that said that the jury could,

00:35:46.920 can make up rules as they wanted.

00:35:48.960 Uh,

00:35:49.360 and when I asked him,

00:35:50.140 I was like,

00:35:50.540 Hey,

00:35:50.840 show me the rule.

00:35:51.660 Like why?

00:35:52.900 He said,

00:35:53.500 you people make all the rules,

00:35:55.200 but not today.

00:35:55.980 And he was clearly referring not to Israeli is clearly referring to Jews.

00:35:59.740 Um,

00:36:00.340 I take a look at anti-Semitism,

00:36:02.060 like any sort of,

00:36:03.820 I mean,

00:36:05.160 Jews are very small segments of the population.

00:36:06.980 Jews are about 2% of the American population.

00:36:09.320 I try not to make things about Jews because everyone's just trying to put food on,

00:36:13.700 on,

00:36:14.080 on the table for their family.

00:36:15.180 They're trying to make ends meet.

00:36:16.240 And like,

00:36:16.540 people shouldn't need to care about any other,

00:36:18.800 you know,

00:36:19.000 they should care about their family and they should care about themselves and

00:36:21.160 care about their communities and what they truly care about.

00:36:24.000 To me,

00:36:24.560 the whole thing is exposed societal issues in how we deal with each other.

00:36:29.040 And it's not,

00:36:30.840 um,

00:36:30.940 I mean,

00:36:31.100 Jews are,

00:36:31.680 have generally been an easy target to,

00:36:35.100 for when,

00:36:35.620 when a social fabric starts to break down,

00:36:38.040 they are on the receiving end of a lot of the fraying of that social fabric or what

00:36:42.500 has caused it for,

00:36:44.180 uh,

00:36:44.420 I I've seen the,

00:36:45.600 the,

00:36:46.500 I mean,

00:36:46.720 a lot of what has given rise to the cover of anti-Semitism nowadays is,

00:36:50.440 is DEI is,

00:36:52.020 um,

00:36:52.340 or has been the explicit permission structure of intersectionality,

00:36:56.280 of grouping people based on a socioeconomic hierarchy or a,

00:37:01.240 an accomplishment hierarchy and viewing them as groups rather than,

00:37:04.020 rather than as individuals.

00:37:05.960 I think we're seeing quite deadly consequences of that in,

00:37:09.280 in the United States where for years we've looked at,

00:37:13.220 at each other as classes,

00:37:14.680 uh,

00:37:15.180 or not we,

00:37:15.980 but,

00:37:16.200 but a large amount of us have.

00:37:19.160 And,

00:37:19.840 and there is a permission structure to,

00:37:22.780 to act against certain classes in the name of repair,

00:37:26.280 imperative or social justice.

00:37:28.020 And a lot of what we've seen in terms of the anti-Semitism,

00:37:30.580 especially in the wake of,

00:37:31.460 let's say like the DC shootings or the Boulder,

00:37:33.280 uh,

00:37:34.000 the Boulder,

00:37:34.520 um,

00:37:35.500 Molotov cocktailing of the group is,

00:37:37.800 is we have a lot of excusal of it or,

00:37:40.960 and we've even seen,

00:37:41.940 we even saw something akin,

00:37:43.460 you know,

00:37:43.840 the excusal of,

00:37:45.440 of violence against the United healthcare CEO and,

00:37:48.920 and the lionization of,

00:37:51.320 of this kid who shot him in the back,

00:37:53.620 right?

00:37:53.820 America doesn't stand for shooting people in the back.

00:37:56.740 America doesn't stand for firebombing senior citizens because they're

00:38:00.120 voicing what you believe to be an incorrect opinion.

00:38:05.220 It just doesn't make sense.

00:38:06.980 And so to me,

00:38:07.560 it's less about,

00:38:08.440 I mean,

00:38:08.620 obviously the Jews are receiving the brunt of it.

00:38:11.220 According to FBI statistics,

00:38:12.460 it just is,

00:38:13.740 but it points to me because,

00:38:16.320 because as we,

00:38:17.040 as we know from years of,

00:38:18.420 of,

00:38:18.740 of reverse racism training in the workplace,

00:38:21.400 telling people not to dislike other people generally pushes them to

00:38:25.840 dislike them further,

00:38:26.860 creates a further class of,

00:38:28.800 of it others them further.

00:38:30.580 And I always try to stay away from,

00:38:32.580 well,

00:38:32.680 anti-semblies is of course hatred of anyone is bad,

00:38:35.320 right?

00:38:35.480 Try to identify what,

00:38:37.700 from a societal standpoint has broken down that this is suddenly

00:38:40.760 acceptable.

00:38:41.840 Why is it acceptable that a New York city mayoral candidate who's possibly

00:38:45.500 going to win is,

00:38:47.060 is,

00:38:47.680 is a rabid anti-Semite,

00:38:48.900 right?

00:38:49.320 Who does not hold American values.

00:38:51.280 And generally what we've seen is that anti-American values go against

00:38:55.700 Judeo-Christian values,

00:38:57.040 right?

00:38:57.240 What they reject is Judeo-Christian values.

00:39:00.460 Judeo is the Jews.

00:39:01.840 It's really hard to reject a whole lot of Christians because people

00:39:04.820 themselves view themselves as Christians.

00:39:06.860 But,

00:39:07.360 you know,

00:39:07.900 if people were asking me what I've observed in terms of the rise of

00:39:11.320 anti-Semitism and say as,

00:39:13.460 as a last point,

00:39:14.380 not to make the point too long,

00:39:16.260 but anti-Semitism to me has always been viewed.

00:39:20.760 I view it through the lens of like a tea kettle and the sort of social

00:39:24.200 pressure builds up and the social pressure builds up in the,

00:39:27.080 and in intersectionality really built up the pressure in terms of viewing

00:39:30.980 oppressors and oppressed narrative structure as permissive,

00:39:35.580 as permission structures for violence or aggression or discrimination

00:39:39.740 against other people.

00:39:41.060 We saw it in the Harvard case against Asians,

00:39:43.420 right?

00:39:43.620 Why is it okay to discriminate against Asians,

00:39:45.600 right?

00:39:45.740 It's not,

00:39:46.240 it shouldn't be,

00:39:47.280 but you know,

00:39:48.280 we do,

00:39:49.040 or,

00:39:49.540 or at least Harvard went to bat to do that.

00:39:51.260 And a lot of other universities and then anti-Zionism is the

00:39:55.360 permission structure that allows that valve to release.

00:39:58.040 So people in polite society can say they hate Israel and then do a

00:40:02.340 whole bunch of anti-Semitic stuff,

00:40:03.980 right?

00:40:04.080 Go fire bomb Jewish people or empty 21 bullets at the Jewish museum to

00:40:07.980 Jews.

00:40:09.160 So,

00:40:09.760 you know,

00:40:10.900 just to end the point,

00:40:12.220 if,

00:40:12.440 if anyone's at home thinking about the problem of anti-Semitism,

00:40:14.820 try not to frame it through the problem of Jews because Jews shouldn't and

00:40:18.500 don't affect you,

00:40:19.380 right?

00:40:19.600 We're all just people.

00:40:21.020 What we should view it as is how do we relate to our fellow man?

00:40:24.360 How do we relate in society to other people?

00:40:26.800 Has it been broken down into classes of people and,

00:40:29.840 and how are those classes based?

00:40:31.580 Or is it purely what American values are supposed to be built on,

00:40:35.300 which is,

00:40:35.940 do we love democracy?

00:40:37.040 Do we love each other?

00:40:38.020 Do we love American Judeo-Christian values?

00:40:40.500 And is our,

00:40:41.260 is our system rewarding people who,

00:40:44.480 who strive for merit rather than restorative justice at the expense of

00:40:48.860 others?

00:40:49.200 I mean,

00:40:51.120 what,

00:40:51.520 I mean,

00:40:52.180 what you just said,

00:40:53.660 what it sounds like you just said to me is that hatred is bad.

00:40:57.120 Discrimination is bad.

00:40:59.040 I don't know who could listen to that and disagree with any of the points that

00:41:02.180 you said.

00:41:02.700 And,

00:41:03.500 and to address the topic of,

00:41:05.360 I guess the,

00:41:06.260 the people or athletes who identify as trans in this understand nothing that,

00:41:13.520 that we have discussed,

00:41:14.660 no position that I've taken personally is a position out of hatred or ill will or,

00:41:20.100 you know,

00:41:21.280 animosity towards any one person or group of people.

00:41:23.900 Again,

00:41:24.020 it's just pointing out what is objectively and proven and factually and historically

00:41:28.880 known to be wrong.

00:41:30.780 And yet suddenly we've gotten to this point in society where we accept it.

00:41:33.860 So,

00:41:34.380 I mean,

00:41:35.200 I'm in full agreement with everything that you just said that that's pretty

00:41:40.080 remarkably put yet again,

00:41:42.140 but you mentioned it.

00:41:45.480 No.

00:41:45.820 Yeah.

00:41:46.200 Well,

00:41:46.500 seriously,

00:41:47.060 you,

00:41:47.460 you have mentioned already at this point,

00:41:50.120 like the risk that you face as an athlete,

00:41:53.560 especially at that level for speaking out,

00:41:55.980 especially now,

00:41:57.660 again,

00:41:57.900 while actively training for the Olympics.

00:41:59.600 And so I guess my question for you is why now,

00:42:01.920 like what compelled you to take the stances.

00:42:04.760 And I say that plurally that you've taken publicly.

00:42:09.800 So.

00:42:11.920 I need to provide a small framework for how I view the role of athletes in general.

00:42:17.080 So I'm,

00:42:17.960 I'm of the view that when someone is a national athlete,

00:42:21.440 when someone is striving to wear their country's flag,

00:42:25.280 their individuality gives way to the only thing that matters,

00:42:29.320 which is their country's flag.

00:42:31.120 Right.

00:42:31.220 And so it's the shut up and dribble sort of framework here.

00:42:34.220 When it comes to the NBA or professional sports,

00:42:36.940 that's your livelihood.

00:42:37.660 That's your own platform.

00:42:38.740 That's your own brand.

00:42:39.520 But when you reach the level of,

00:42:41.840 of stepping onto a world cup stage or representing on the international stage,

00:42:45.860 when you are the national athlete,

00:42:47.200 the only relevance you have is the country is the relevance the country gave you.

00:42:51.120 And so it's inappropriate to use that platform to shoehorn in social,

00:42:56.500 domestic,

00:42:57.200 political preferences,

00:42:58.960 right?

00:42:59.180 You shouldn't be standing on a,

00:43:01.820 on a,

00:43:02.480 on a podium wearing the American flag or any other flag and making a political statement

00:43:07.240 because America sent you there.

00:43:08.960 And if that's not America's view,

00:43:10.320 that's not your view in that moment.

00:43:12.280 So that,

00:43:13.100 that has always been how I operate and that's how I continue to operate on October 7th.

00:43:19.480 So on October 7th,

00:43:21.120 2023,

00:43:21.800 we had a team ready to go for the,

00:43:23.800 for the bobsled season.

00:43:24.820 I'd always been extremely,

00:43:26.420 you know,

00:43:26.540 even within the framework of speaking out just specifically for the country or the country's views,

00:43:30.240 I always viewed myself as like,

00:43:31.480 Hey,

00:43:31.560 I'm just a dude doing my dude thing.

00:43:34.560 But all my brothers were called to war,

00:43:36.880 including we had three Arab Druze on the team.

00:43:39.760 Druze are very special Arab minority in Israel.

00:43:42.800 They're also based in Syria.

00:43:45.080 The,

00:43:45.700 they were,

00:43:46.000 everyone was called to Gaza and everyone had to go fight.

00:43:47.900 And I kind of viewed it as,

00:43:49.120 okay,

00:43:49.260 so I'm not going to fight for some social justice,

00:43:51.300 social,

00:43:51.860 you know,

00:43:52.160 political thing,

00:43:53.120 but I am going to give a voice to what the country is trying to experience because I am an extension of the country.

00:43:59.020 So it's my way of,

00:44:00.740 of speaking out.

00:44:01.580 When it comes to issues like the trans in sports,

00:44:04.520 right?

00:44:04.700 Talking,

00:44:05.440 talking to what you mentioned about it's dangerous to speak out.

00:44:09.260 I think Olympians rely,

00:44:12.860 we,

00:44:13.820 a lot of times we could barely make ends meet.

00:44:15.900 And there's a really big disconnect between the impression of what people,

00:44:19.460 how much people are supported,

00:44:20.520 even in a program like the United States,

00:44:22.660 of,

00:44:23.000 of,

00:44:23.320 of how much support you get and what you need to do to,

00:44:25.540 to basically feed yourself.

00:44:26.860 Sponsorship is the lifeblood of everyone's journey.

00:44:30.760 It's what allows you to get from A to B.

00:44:33.220 And if you sacrifice sponsorship,

00:44:34.860 you could be sacrificing the entirety of your body,

00:44:37.620 of your life's work,

00:44:39.000 right?

00:44:39.120 If your life's work is to make the games or to get to a sporting competition,

00:44:42.460 speaking out on a socially unacceptable subject,

00:44:44.980 such as trans in sports,

00:44:46.660 is,

00:44:47.220 can place all of that in jeopardy for something that you don't,

00:44:51.500 at the end of the day,

00:44:52.320 might not have any sort of bent on,

00:44:54.440 right?

00:44:54.600 You're a drip of water in the ocean of public opinion.

00:44:58.240 And so it's been very dangerous for people,

00:45:00.120 especially Olympians to speak out on issues like trans in sports.

00:45:03.880 All of us,

00:45:05.040 I'd say the vast,

00:45:06.180 vast,

00:45:06.500 vast,

00:45:06.920 vast,

00:45:07.280 vast majority greater than 90%,

00:45:09.420 probably greater than 95% of Olympians or people who strive for the Olympic level.

00:45:14.760 We know,

00:45:15.480 we are aware,

00:45:16.560 and we view trans in sports as,

00:45:19.340 it's an abhorrent,

00:45:20.500 it's,

00:45:22.480 it's obscene,

00:45:23.840 right?

00:45:24.000 It's obscene to the concept of fairness of sport,

00:45:26.480 right?

00:45:26.700 It's just wrong,

00:45:27.860 but you can't speak out against it because the major sponsors embrace it.

00:45:32.360 Nike fully embraced it.

00:45:34.340 Adidas embraced it.

00:45:36.320 You saw Anheuser-Busch,

00:45:38.740 right?

00:45:39.040 Like they,

00:45:41.120 but,

00:45:41.560 you know,

00:45:42.020 but embrace it.

00:45:43.620 So are you going to go out and stick your neck out and sacrifice your ability to actually make the games for saying this is wrong?

00:45:50.940 No,

00:45:51.200 you're going to leave it up to the talking heads because that's their job and your job is,

00:45:54.400 is not.

00:45:55.120 When it comes to,

00:45:56.300 to,

00:45:56.600 to trans in sports,

00:45:57.880 this is not to me,

00:45:59.840 any sort of issue that,

00:46:01.580 that treads on a national political conversation.

00:46:04.020 It's an issue of sporting conversation,

00:46:07.540 right?

00:46:07.760 This has to do with my,

00:46:09.880 with my job structure.

00:46:10.900 This has to do with my industry,

00:46:13.200 right?

00:46:13.340 And so speaking out is the responsibility to everyone has an obligation that's,

00:46:18.000 that's impacted by this.

00:46:19.960 And first and foremost is,

00:46:21.620 is men in sport because men have oftentimes greater sponsorship opportunity to begin with than women,

00:46:29.160 right?

00:46:29.300 So a lot of dollars,

00:46:30.600 advertising dollars do flow to men in sport.

00:46:32.920 And so we do have by default,

00:46:34.960 a greater opportunity to potentially speak out without sacrificing much of the field,

00:46:39.080 especially if someone,

00:46:41.040 if a company is going to embrace trans people invading female sports spaces,

00:46:46.860 then by definition,

00:46:48.380 a woman is going to be biting into a large part of that sponsorship apple by speaking out.

00:46:53.980 And it's quite dangerous for them.

00:46:55.500 So we all have an obligation to speak out.

00:46:57.640 And we truly are,

00:46:59.120 right?

00:46:59.260 Because it would be akin to say,

00:47:00.780 to seeing someone,

00:47:01.980 to seeing a sport rife with doping and seeing that just happen before your eyes and going,

00:47:07.200 that's not my issue.

00:47:07.980 That's not my deal.

00:47:09.060 You're an athlete.

00:47:10.120 You're,

00:47:10.680 you're a sporting individual.

00:47:11.920 You have an obligation to speak out against unfairness in sport.

00:47:15.240 This does affect spectators as well,

00:47:17.980 by the way.

00:47:18.420 And I think a lot of people say like,

00:47:19.840 well,

00:47:19.960 it doesn't affect me.

00:47:21.000 It does.

00:47:22.040 There's a reason the Olympics are broadcast.

00:47:24.320 These sports,

00:47:25.660 you know,

00:47:25.860 when we,

00:47:26.160 when we walk into the Olympic stadium for the opening ceremonies in the winter games,

00:47:30.200 there's like maximum two or 3000 people in that stadium,

00:47:32.620 but there's a billion people watching it.

00:47:34.880 The spectator Olympic sports and high level sports are for the spectators,

00:47:39.740 right?

00:47:40.020 It's a show put on for you.

00:47:42.340 And you come to watch a fair field of play.

00:47:45.240 Of people pursuing athletic excellence and not athletic.

00:47:48.580 And,

00:47:48.680 and,

00:47:48.940 and you have a voice.

00:47:50.200 You vote with your wallet.

00:47:51.160 You vote with your feet.

00:47:52.500 If you're all for viewing a sporting competition with a tilted field to play,

00:47:57.400 just be honest about it.

00:47:59.360 Just say like doping or,

00:48:00.780 or unfair fields of play don't matter to me.

00:48:02.920 But if you have any notion of,

00:48:05.680 of,

00:48:05.700 Hey,

00:48:05.760 this is a fair sporting competition.

00:48:07.260 Then you have an obligation to say unfairness in all forms,

00:48:10.520 even if it hurts someone's feelings is unfairness.

00:48:14.900 Boom.

00:48:16.480 It really should be.

00:48:18.380 I mean,

00:48:18.680 it really is that simple.

00:48:19.940 I just wish everyone understood it as simply as,

00:48:23.120 as you just put it.

00:48:24.340 Uh,

00:48:24.780 and I love that you use the word obligation and describing this because people

00:48:28.860 ask me that all the time.

00:48:29.860 Uh,

00:48:30.720 you know,

00:48:31.440 why do you expect athletes at whatever level to take a stand?

00:48:36.020 And I,

00:48:36.600 I agree with you.

00:48:37.500 I believe there is an,

00:48:38.540 an obligation there,

00:48:40.020 uh,

00:48:40.780 to defend yourself,

00:48:42.300 to defend the next generation,

00:48:43.840 to defend people like my younger sister,

00:48:45.580 who wants to be able to compete and succeed at the highest level,

00:48:49.180 which she has every capability of doing.

00:48:51.780 Um,

00:48:52.240 so yeah,

00:48:53.280 really powerful.

00:48:54.420 I guess my last thing for you is what's next.

00:48:57.240 Uh,

00:48:57.480 obviously you're in Japan,

00:48:58.400 you're training your,

00:48:59.380 you're,

00:49:00.140 um,

00:49:00.860 you know,

00:49:01.120 hoping to,

00:49:01.840 I would imagine compete at the next Olympic winter Olympic games.

00:49:05.360 What does that process look like?

00:49:06.780 And what's next for you?

00:49:08.460 Oh,

00:49:08.940 there's so much that goes into building an Olympic program or,

00:49:11.880 or shouldering an Olympic program.

00:49:13.220 So everything that has to do with the Israeli bombs,

00:49:15.920 the team essentially falls like building the team,

00:49:18.340 recruitment,

00:49:18.900 fundraising,

00:49:19.640 um,

00:49:20.340 buying our equipment,

00:49:21.660 even inventing some of the equipment I came,

00:49:23.800 I was a mechanical engineer at one point in my life.

00:49:26.000 And I,

00:49:26.200 I've invented a lot of,

00:49:27.400 a lot of our equipment that,

00:49:29.020 that we're able to wear the what's,

00:49:31.420 what's immediately next is just training every day.

00:49:33.660 Athletes take things with long-term views and every day is just a building

00:49:37.320 block towards that long-term view.

00:49:38.900 The Olympic games take place in,

00:49:41.420 in February,

00:49:42.240 basically the first week or two of February.

00:49:44.000 And so that's really my one and only goal in life right now is to make

00:49:47.580 those games.

00:49:48.460 Once you start bifurcating your attention,

00:49:49.980 like you get,

00:49:51.080 you get 50% of nothing on both sides.

00:49:53.040 You really need to dedicate everything you can to,

00:49:55.000 to one.

00:49:56.020 So that's,

00:49:56.700 that's what's next.

00:49:57.560 But,

00:49:57.960 uh,

00:49:58.300 immediately,

00:49:59.040 you know,

00:49:59.260 in the immediate thing,

00:50:00.020 I think,

00:50:00.500 um,

00:50:00.920 probably you can relate to this is,

00:50:02.760 is every day is,

00:50:03.620 is training and looking for sponsors.

00:50:05.820 And that's,

00:50:06.540 that's all we do.

00:50:07.340 It's kind of like the,

00:50:08.160 the,

00:50:08.420 the role of an Olympic athlete to support yourself and to support your

00:50:11.840 sporting dreams.

00:50:12.700 But I am going to continue to try to speak out about the issue.

00:50:15.840 Um,

00:50:16.280 and I think I'm,

00:50:16.860 I'm,

00:50:17.180 I'm becoming more passionate about it because we're continuing to see states even

00:50:21.980 defy this.

00:50:22.740 We've seen Maine defy this recently,

00:50:24.620 California defy this.

00:50:25.840 And,

00:50:26.640 and,

00:50:27.080 and they're trying to do something akin to carving out exceptions to it.

00:50:31.360 Um,

00:50:32.000 again,

00:50:32.260 I,

00:50:32.500 I would point people towards viewing this from a,

00:50:35.560 um,

00:50:36.000 from a principled perspective,

00:50:37.420 right?

00:50:39.020 Hold to a principle that you think is correct and fair.

00:50:42.460 And when people use edge cases or the 1% of cases,

00:50:47.320 or,

00:50:47.820 you know,

00:50:48.300 it's only this and it violates that principle,

00:50:51.760 then it's violated the principle.

00:50:53.340 So I think the most recent example is in California,

00:50:57.280 you're a trans athlete is allowed to enter a female sporting competition.

00:51:00.740 If they win,

00:51:01.620 they then share first place with a biological female.

00:51:06.100 Yeah.

00:51:06.540 Okay.

00:51:07.200 That it violates,

00:51:08.620 it's still violates everything.

00:51:10.700 What it has essentially done is it has given a permission structure for a man to share the

00:51:16.660 podium with a woman and for the woman to give legitimacy and cover to that.

00:51:21.920 It's inappropriate in the extreme.

00:51:24.280 And we can say that,

00:51:25.120 and we can see this by saying,

00:51:26.340 Hey,

00:51:26.460 it violates the principle.

00:51:27.640 The principle is fairness.

00:51:28.720 It violates fairness.

00:51:29.980 And I guess as,

00:51:31.580 as a,

00:51:31.960 just a final last thing about this,

00:51:33.980 why should any of us care?

00:51:36.160 Right?

00:51:36.520 It touches on something that you said,

00:51:38.000 Riley,

00:51:39.020 we all have family.

00:51:40.380 We all have friends and we all have people that we care about.

00:51:42.940 If you think about something that you've wanted so desperately in your life,

00:51:46.240 right?

00:51:46.380 Athletes are just like any other person who pursues a PhD or a grand goal,

00:51:51.340 right?

00:51:52.240 Sports are not,

00:51:53.340 sports are a microcosm of life,

00:51:55.340 but they,

00:51:56.480 they apply,

00:51:58.120 the lessons apply in so many different areas.

00:52:00.220 And so I view it very much as any other grand endeavor,

00:52:03.560 making a startup,

00:52:04.500 for example,

00:52:04.940 Olympic athletes are like people who are starting a startup.

00:52:08.000 If you pour your,

00:52:09.080 your blood,

00:52:10.180 sweat and tears into your goal,

00:52:11.960 or your family does,

00:52:13.840 your daughter does,

00:52:15.200 your best friend does,

00:52:16.460 and all they want is to achieve their best.

00:52:20.300 And someone comes along and in a most unfair fashion,

00:52:24.460 not that they were better,

00:52:26.060 but in an unfair fashion,

00:52:27.780 violates the principles of equality and fairness,

00:52:30.060 and robs them of that achievement.

00:52:32.560 And by extension,

00:52:33.680 all of that hard work and effort and dreams that they had,

00:52:38.600 they're destroying someone's world.

00:52:40.780 In essence,

00:52:41.240 they're replacing it with a new world,

00:52:42.900 right?

00:52:43.440 And that world,

00:52:44.140 people could say,

00:52:44.720 well,

00:52:44.800 it's not that big.

00:52:45.460 What does it matter?

00:52:46.660 High school track,

00:52:47.540 excuse me,

00:52:48.700 high school is some of the most formative years of our lives,

00:52:51.620 right?

00:52:51.840 The experiences that we have in high school,

00:52:53.840 that we have in university are very formative experiences.

00:52:57.060 Sport allows people to learn right from wrong,

00:52:59.840 set goals and develop themselves in a personal level,

00:53:02.800 deal with loss.

00:53:04.180 And if you,

00:53:05.080 for lack of a better term,

00:53:06.060 I'm going to use it.

00:53:06.800 If you bastardize that process,

00:53:08.900 you're robbing someone of the fulfillment of that journey.

00:53:12.120 It's wrong.

00:53:12.880 It's just a wrong thing to do.

00:53:16.120 Yeah.

00:53:16.980 And who everyone starts somewhere.

00:53:19.400 I hear that argument all the time as well,

00:53:21.120 where people say,

00:53:21.880 well,

00:53:22.200 it's just middle school girls basketball.

00:53:24.340 Well,

00:53:24.580 guess what?

00:53:25.080 Don't you think Caitlin Clark was there at some point?

00:53:28.960 Of course,

00:53:29.600 it is a natural progression that,

00:53:31.560 that athletes have to make to reach the highest levels.

00:53:35.100 So you're right to rid,

00:53:36.020 you know,

00:53:36.260 or go ahead.

00:53:39.340 There's one thing that comes to mind now that you mentioned it.

00:53:42.220 There was a study done years ago about the harmful effects of promoting

00:53:45.400 people to educational levels that were too hard for them to appropriately

00:53:50.420 learn in,

00:53:51.660 right?

00:53:51.820 It was,

00:53:52.220 it was,

00:53:52.680 you know,

00:53:52.940 someone goes in,

00:53:53.840 it was a Duke study on people who,

00:53:56.260 who they lowered SAT scores,

00:53:58.660 essentially for,

00:53:59.460 to get into higher,

00:54:00.960 higher level universities.

00:54:02.240 And what they found is that at a,

00:54:04.320 at an educational level that was too overwhelming,

00:54:06.600 the failures that racked up,

00:54:08.740 because once you were in that environment,

00:54:10.740 that you couldn't progress naturally,

00:54:13.500 it discouraged you from reaching towards,

00:54:16.320 let's say your masters or for the next level of achievement.

00:54:18.980 If you think of it's only middle school,

00:54:20.980 if you've robbed someone of an athletic achievement in middle school,

00:54:24.680 what are the odds that they won't try as hard in high school?

00:54:29.300 What is the,

00:54:29.840 what is the chance that you have robbed them of a journey of,

00:54:33.480 of the fulfillment of an actual journey that can take them to a far away

00:54:37.460 place?

00:54:38.100 Just because,

00:54:38.860 I mean,

00:54:39.020 you said we all start everywhere.

00:54:41.400 It doesn't matter whether you snuffed out the,

00:54:43.640 the dream or the journey at the beginning,

00:54:45.660 middle or end,

00:54:46.760 you still ruined someone's journey,

00:54:48.920 right?

00:54:49.540 And you can really destroy someone's personal development by throwing them into a

00:54:53.920 field for which is,

00:54:55.040 it is rapidly.

00:54:56.420 What is the lesson a young person's supposed to learn from that,

00:54:59.960 right?

00:55:00.200 That by,

00:55:00.720 by feeling a certain way,

00:55:02.240 I can skirt the rules.

00:55:03.280 I can get what I want.

00:55:04.400 That's a poor lesson to learn,

00:55:05.920 right?

00:55:06.420 And you learn that very harshly by watching someone who has 20 to 40% more

00:55:10.440 muscle mass from me than you,

00:55:12.220 just because they were born a biological male,

00:55:14.820 lap you on a track and it's wholly inappropriate.

00:55:18.980 Totally.

00:55:20.000 Well,

00:55:20.440 I appreciate how philosophically yet simple you put that in a way that

00:55:25.960 everyone,

00:55:27.180 regardless of any prior political affiliation,

00:55:30.200 regardless of any identity factor,

00:55:32.120 it's easy for everyone to understand.

00:55:34.780 And I think sometimes even you have politicians or elected officials or,

00:55:38.820 or whatever the case is,

00:55:40.580 who are in these positions,

00:55:41.580 speaking about this,

00:55:42.680 who don't necessarily understand the messaging as well as you just put it.

00:55:48.120 So very,

00:55:49.660 very well said.

00:55:50.420 Thank you for,

00:55:51.040 for joining today.

00:55:52.140 We will continue to follow you,

00:55:53.600 your career and everything that you've got coming up,

00:55:56.620 especially over the next few years.

00:55:58.480 So thank you very,

00:55:59.440 very much,

00:55:59.880 AJ.

00:56:01.040 Thank you for having me on Riley.

00:56:02.440 It was quite,

00:56:03.500 it's quite an honor to meet you.

00:56:05.140 I mean,

00:56:05.260 I've seen you for years on,

00:56:06.860 on television.

00:56:07.680 It's just,

00:56:08.160 and thank you for,

00:56:09.500 for,

00:56:10.080 I mean,

00:56:10.260 you really did break the ice.

00:56:11.640 The hardest thing to do is,

00:56:13.120 is to break into the conversation when no one is willing to speak about it.

00:56:17.440 And you really did in a big way.

00:56:19.260 And I'm,

00:56:19.660 I'm,

00:56:19.920 I'm quite grateful for it because it allowed other athletes as well to follow in your footsteps.

00:56:25.000 Well,

00:56:25.440 onwards with full steam ahead.

00:56:26.800 And hopefully we see more who,

00:56:28.860 who kind of joined the roster of athletes who are willing to.

00:56:33.580 Thank you very much.

00:56:34.580 Have a great day.

00:56:35.180 I just love the athlete of a mindset,

00:56:38.160 being able to understand not just in terms of sports,

00:56:43.720 but beyond sports,

00:56:44.780 how they understand political,

00:56:46.720 cultural issues in the way that AJ expressed.

00:56:50.720 I think it's incredibly insightful and it does speak to the determination,

00:56:54.040 the grit,

00:56:54.600 the resilience,

00:56:55.960 the,

00:56:56.620 the,

00:56:57.180 I think the want for perfection that so many athletes,

00:57:00.960 especially competing at that level,

00:57:02.460 the want for perfection that they have.

00:57:04.660 So I hope you guys enjoyed this episode.

00:57:07.320 I really enjoyed talking to AJ,

00:57:08.920 AJ.

00:57:10.580 Father's day is coming up.

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00:57:27.660 that is 40% off of all men's apparel.

00:57:30.420 So again,

00:57:30.920 cozy earth.com and make sure you check us out at youtube.com slash outkick.

00:57:35.640 You can like,

00:57:36.660 you can subscribe,

00:57:37.940 you can comment,

00:57:39.140 engage with other people in the comment section.

00:57:41.400 You can check out my new home studio.

00:57:44.280 So funny.

00:57:45.220 I was on will Kane show on Fox,

00:57:48.340 I believe in the 4 PM Eastern hour this past week.

00:57:51.540 And it was hilarious because I'm,

00:57:54.140 I'm set up in my new home studio again,

00:57:55.820 which I'm so proud of.

00:57:56.840 I think it looks incredible and I'm sat there and,

00:58:00.180 and you have an earpiece in,

00:58:01.600 and someone from the control room in the Fox news channel headquarters is

00:58:06.780 talking to you prior to the show.

00:58:08.400 You're ready to go on.

00:58:09.760 Well,

00:58:09.960 there was a problem,

00:58:10.660 a technical issue on their end to where I stopped receiving audio.

00:58:16.020 And so there's about 15 seconds of the show where will Kane is talking to

00:58:21.060 me.

00:58:21.180 And I never knew we even came back from commercial break.

00:58:23.280 So I'm looking off to the side.

00:58:25.240 I'm looking here and there and everywhere.

00:58:27.080 And it was the most embarrassing thing ever,

00:58:29.800 but the problem was not on my end.

00:58:33.180 So all of that to say my home studio,

00:58:35.540 my,

00:58:36.020 my new fantastic studio and set up works perfectly.

00:58:39.840 But if you want a good laugh,

00:58:41.640 you can go watch that video too,

00:58:43.100 because I literally look like I have not a thought in my mind,

00:58:47.960 nothing going on between these two years and in this brain.

00:58:51.960 So pretty funny stuff.

00:58:53.380 But anyways,

00:58:54.000 all that to say,

00:58:54.880 appreciate you guys check us out at youtube.com slash outkick,

00:58:57.820 and we will see you again next week.

Gaines for Girls with Riley Gaines - June 06, 2025

EXCLUSIVE： Olympic Athlete Speaks Out

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