Gaines for Girls with Riley Gaines - November 01, 2023


Fighting Back Against EventBrite & Who is Keith Olbermann？


Episode Stats

Length

34 minutes

Words per Minute

172.18214

Word Count

5,895

Sentence Count

391

Misogynist Sentences

10

Hate Speech Sentences

9


Summary

Clay Travis is the founder and owner of Outkick.fm, the platform that Outkick is based on. He has become a great friend, of course, an ally in the fight against gay marriage, and so many more.


Transcript

00:00:00.540 Okay, only 10 more presents to wrap. You're almost at the finish line, but first...
00:00:10.980 There, the last one. Enjoy a Coca-Cola for a pause that refreshes.
00:00:18.040 Welcome back to the Games4Girls podcast. Today, we have Clay Travis. Need I even say more? The owner and the founder of Outkick, the incredible platform that this podcast is on.
00:00:39.140 He has become a great friend, of course, an ally in this fight and so many more. Just someone I really, truly look up to.
00:00:47.000 Check out the interview with Clay Travis.
00:00:50.320 Clay, thank you so much for joining. I just got to see you at your Halloween party. It was a lot of fun. My husband dressed as Leah Thomas, which was just perfect.
00:01:00.860 But again, thank you for coming on. We have kind of a lot to dive into because there's been a lot of craziness going on as per usual.
00:01:09.700 But I think I want to first start off with, would you have ever imagined when you started your career?
00:01:17.000 That you would be spending time talking about men and women's sports and all the other crazy issues that we're talking about.
00:01:24.880 All right. So first, let me say your husband, Louie, is awesome.
00:01:29.920 And I was awesome to get to hang out with him again.
00:01:33.460 And he is the first person that I've ever met who has legit a combo British and Southern accent, which is incredible.
00:01:43.760 And my wife, Laura, thank you for being at the Halloween party.
00:01:46.500 My wife, Laura, is from the Midwest.
00:01:49.480 So she grew up outside of Detroit in Michigan and Oakland County.
00:01:53.020 And I noticed she's been with. So we met in 01. So she's been in Nashville now for 22 years.
00:01:59.180 And I noticed early on, like in the first few years we started to date, she still probably has a Midwestern accent.
00:02:06.020 I think people can tell where she's from. But now she will speckle so much of her conversation with Nashville style Southern isms and language that it's really like,
00:02:15.760 I don't think people talk enough about the interesting dialect when you combine two different places.
00:02:21.420 So your husband's British and Southern accent, my wife's Midwestern and Southern accent is really super interesting to hear.
00:02:29.520 But your husband's one of the coolest accents I've ever heard. Awesome guy. Great costume.
00:02:34.080 So that's your question. No, no, I like I started off.
00:02:40.140 You were what year did you graduate high school?
00:02:43.620 18.
00:02:44.060 So I started out kick in 11, right?
00:02:48.260 2011. So you were like nine or something when I started out kick.
00:02:52.060 And when I did that, we spent a huge amount of the time.
00:02:56.960 You're like in fifth grade or something. We just did drinking games.
00:03:00.280 It was like, hey, the biggest game is going to be like, you know, Georgia, Florida.
00:03:05.620 Like, let's do a fun drinking game for the cocktail party this year.
00:03:09.280 And every time Vern Lundquist mentions, you know, where who Tim Tebow's roommate is, you have to drink.
00:03:15.660 Like, totally not serious fun. Like, hey, I love college football.
00:03:21.940 I love, you know, the SEC and all just like super fun.
00:03:26.820 And then, you know, Johnny Manziel, you know, wearing out the Scooby-Doo costume and dancing with, you know, like pretty girls on a college campus.
00:03:35.920 Like, these are the kind of stories we have, right?
00:03:38.240 At Outkick. It was just like, hey, let's just have fun.
00:03:41.040 Let's just enjoy, you know, college football, NFL sports in general, whatever it is.
00:03:46.980 And then, Riley, people just went crazy.
00:03:51.600 And so if you had told me, I started writing online about sports in 04.
00:03:56.280 So you were like, what year were you born?
00:03:59.020 I was born in 2000.
00:04:00.500 So you were four years old when I started writing online about sports.
00:04:04.220 All right. Not very serious, laid back, fun.
00:04:08.740 And if you had told me in 2004 that by 2020, I would be having to have legitimate arguments about whether dudes could identify as women and decide they wanted to win women's championships, I never would have believed you.
00:04:27.140 Now, the one thing I will say is this.
00:04:29.540 Once gay marriage became legal, I remember writing and talking about it and being like, okay, where does it go from here?
00:04:36.980 Because people seemed, and people can have a variety of different opinions on everything, but it seemed to me like that was kind of the extent of inclusion.
00:04:47.040 Like, you can marry whoever you want.
00:04:50.140 You know, everybody is protected under the law.
00:04:52.860 If you're an adult, make choices as an adult.
00:04:56.680 But I've talked about with you, I knew we had to go somewhere because the progressive element constantly has to find something new.
00:05:03.760 I just never would have thought it was to hear.
00:05:07.400 And I think anyone who is a sports fan and is willing to be honest, because there's a lot of people who are not willing to be honest because they want to keep their jobs at ESPN or whatever else.
00:05:18.820 They all understand how batshit crazy this is.
00:05:22.460 And I can't believe this is legitimately where we are.
00:05:25.500 But I think it's a testament to what happens when you don't call out true lies.
00:05:31.520 And I give you credit for, otherwise you'd be in school and you'd be getting dentist training, right?
00:05:37.980 Like, if this hadn't happened.
00:05:40.400 No, totally.
00:05:41.320 And I think it's almost ironic that you started your career thinking, you know, doing things just, it's not that serious.
00:05:49.000 You know, you're having fun, but half of the stuff you're reporting on now seems not that serious.
00:05:53.720 But it is, right?
00:05:54.580 Like, there's real consequences and there's real effects to this stuff.
00:05:58.540 And one more important piece you mentioned is you said if you're a legitimate sports fan, you know this is crazy.
00:06:04.400 And that's what I've seen, too, is a lot of this opposition pertaining to sports, specifically allowing men into women's sports, is coming from people who have never played a sport in their entire life.
00:06:15.340 So, their argument is invalid.
00:06:19.100 Yeah, I give a pass to people who just really aren't that interested in sports, right?
00:06:23.300 I would say there's 20% of the American public that didn't play sports, that doesn't understand it at all, that totally is just kind of out to lunch.
00:06:32.080 And they're just thinking about it purely from a political perspective.
00:06:36.480 But if you have ever played sports, I mean, you know this.
00:06:39.460 I mean, growing up, the size of your high school, we make choices.
00:06:43.980 You know, like, there's different state championships based on whether you happen to go to a high school with 2,000 kids or 250 kids.
00:06:51.980 Like, that's a big difference.
00:06:53.680 You know, I coach Little League, right?
00:06:56.480 So, I have coached Little League basketball, Little League, every sport, basically, right?
00:07:01.380 If I suddenly show up with a 16-year-old to play 12-year-old baseball, every parent would be like, no, that's totally unacceptable.
00:07:08.440 We have age range, we have school size, we have weight classes for boxing and UFC and everything else.
00:07:18.420 And the most important, I think, classification is men and women's sports.
00:07:23.040 And so, if you told me, hey, you have to give up everything else, I guess we could have one state champ.
00:07:28.760 The big schools would have an advantage.
00:07:30.640 I guess we could have one fighting champion.
00:07:32.540 It would mean if you weigh, like, 120 pounds, you'd never win anything if you're a dude, right?
00:07:37.080 It wouldn't be fair.
00:07:38.420 But I would say if you had to pick one division not to give up, it would be the difference between men's and women's.
00:07:45.800 And so, it's crazy that we're here.
00:07:48.440 But I was texting with you, I think, on Friday or something.
00:07:51.660 Like, I do think in the next five to ten years, we're going to win this, because I think the truth does matter in the long run.
00:08:00.020 But I think in the short term, they're going to try to demonize, as is happening to you, anyone who is willing to speak out and tell the truth.
00:08:07.800 Because they need you to feel the consequences to scare other people from getting in line with you.
00:08:13.220 Of course.
00:08:14.140 And I totally agree.
00:08:14.880 There's no sustainability to this issue.
00:08:17.680 No way.
00:08:18.120 Recently, the past week or so, well, actually, okay, so I'm going to UC Davis on Friday to speak.
00:08:26.980 It's a very similar message to what I use this platform to talk about, right?
00:08:31.540 Of course, what it took to be an athlete, the unfair competition of allowing men into women's sports, the locker room, the silencing, the broader picture of what this means and how we're denying truth.
00:08:40.700 That's the message, right?
00:08:41.700 The message is very much pro-woman.
00:08:44.940 Yeah.
00:08:45.400 Reality.
00:08:46.020 It's pro-fairness.
00:08:47.120 It's pro-truth.
00:08:48.660 I was using Eventbrite to promote this event, to get tickets.
00:08:53.200 Of course, tickets were free.
00:08:54.480 It was merely just to make things easier to coordinate.
00:08:59.060 Eventbrite, I got an email about a week and a half before the event.
00:09:04.420 This email says, you know, you violated our discriminatory policies, our hateful content policies.
00:09:10.960 We've removed your event.
00:09:11.960 I was shocked by this because, again, what policy was I violating?
00:09:17.820 My message isn't anti-anything.
00:09:21.040 The title of the event on Eventbrite was literally protecting women's sports.
00:09:26.660 Apparently, that's discriminatory.
00:09:29.140 So you had a little bit of an exchange with the co-founder and chairman of Eventbrite, Kevin Hartz.
00:09:36.980 Tell us what that looked like.
00:09:39.340 I couldn't believe this was really him, honestly.
00:09:42.120 And I haven't heard, I mean, if we had an honest media, like, people would have gone after him and just been like, what are you talking about, dude?
00:09:49.500 But essentially, he, you know, insulted me, insulted, you know, you and OutKick and everybody else publicly on Twitter.
00:09:59.740 I guess now X, if we're supposed to call it that.
00:10:02.400 And he lied and said, like, no, there's no prohibition on Riley's event.
00:10:09.640 And there's no pro-Hamas events that are up at all.
00:10:13.800 And, you know, I feel fortunate that we have such a committed group of people who work hard at OutKick on a day-to-day basis that can go after stories like these and write them up.
00:10:25.900 But I just, the idea that what you are saying is unacceptable.
00:10:32.620 Let me just be clear.
00:10:33.600 I think Eventbrite should basically let every event that is legal organize.
00:10:38.780 If you were like, hey, we're going to go to a mall and we're going to steal everything in Nordstrom and this is our platform to organize it, I'd be like, okay, you know, Eventbrite shouldn't do that.
00:10:49.520 We're going to go and we're going to burn down all sorts of businesses as part of a riot.
00:10:55.380 No, legal.
00:10:56.660 But if you are legally advocating for something that you believe in, I think it's an easy call.
00:11:02.300 For an Eventbrite or any other company, you should be able to do it.
00:11:05.780 I don't agree with people who are protesting in favor of Palestine or Hamas or anti-Israel in their perspective right now.
00:11:15.000 But I think in America they should be able to do so as long as they do so legally.
00:11:19.080 But what makes me sometimes just want to pull my hair out, and I'm sure it does for you now as you've seen this world that we're in,
00:11:25.920 is your position is one that I firmly believe 90% of people who have been involved in athletics agree with, right?
00:11:35.780 And so the idea that it's somehow hateful or unacceptable for women's athletic support to actually include only women is bonkers.
00:11:47.200 I mean, it's crazy that they would take this down.
00:11:49.080 So we just had, like in the last hour or so, I'm looking at the clock right now, the governor of Virginia, you didn't even know he was going to do this.
00:11:56.520 Glenn Youngkin came on our radio show, specifically cited you and how much he appreciated and supported you,
00:12:05.640 because Glenn Youngkin used to play basketball at Rice University back in the day.
00:12:08.880 He was a college athlete as well.
00:12:10.820 And he said the state of Virginia is no longer going to do business with Eventbrite
00:12:14.300 and encouraged other states to make the same decision if they won't allow events like yours to take place.
00:12:20.120 So credit to Glenn Youngkin, but this is all you helping to advance this cause because of the stupidity of other people surrounding you
00:12:28.520 who are trying to stop you from having success and speaking out and, I think, sharing an important message.
00:12:35.480 Well, no doubt.
00:12:36.200 And you're exactly right.
00:12:37.960 That kind of leadership that Governor Youngkin displayed, more of that.
00:12:42.060 That is what we need.
00:12:43.500 We saw that be effective with Bud Light.
00:12:45.340 I say we give Eventbrite the Bud Light treatment if they so unapologetically, I guess, are anti-woman,
00:12:53.600 if we're going to use this anti-language, if they're so unapologetically anti-woman, I think that's what needs to happen.
00:13:00.620 And what blew my mind is the CEO and the other co-founder, I don't know if it's Kevin's wife or sister or what,
00:13:09.520 but they share a last name, Julia Hartz.
00:13:13.180 She's a woman, and she's allowing this to continue at her company.
00:13:17.400 But I thought it was pretty telling.
00:13:18.620 They, of course, removed all comments.
00:13:20.980 They shut down their Twitter, their Instagram, their TikTok, all this stuff,
00:13:25.760 which, again, I think it just shows they knew what they did was wrong.
00:13:31.400 Of course, they would never say sorry, just like the president of the NCAA.
00:13:35.100 They would never admit what happened was mistreatment or by any means wrong, although they do know it.
00:13:43.780 Speaking of the whole NCAA, blah, blah, blah, I have been so thrilled to see what you have done over the past couple days
00:13:53.720 with this idea, actually this promise, a million dollars on the line.
00:14:00.420 You've got a WNBA team, which is a state championship high school boys basketball team.
00:14:09.460 Any person, as you said, who watches sports, who knows sports, who understands the fundamental differences
00:14:15.600 between men's basketball and women's basketball knows the outcome, right?
00:14:20.900 Yes.
00:14:21.120 Talk about this, because, honestly, I'm looking at this, and these women should be ecstatic.
00:14:29.040 If they really thought they could win, oh, my gosh, a million dollars, right?
00:14:33.680 But that doesn't seem to be the response that they've had.
00:14:37.100 So, again, so many of the things that become stories, I'm surprised they become stories.
00:14:42.440 This, in my opinion, let me first say this.
00:14:47.660 This is important.
00:14:49.180 Men are bigger, stronger, and faster than women.
00:14:51.400 That's not me making, like, some anti-women's.
00:14:54.260 That's Texas to say that.
00:14:55.700 That is biology, right?
00:14:57.160 Now, some women are bigger, stronger, and faster than some men, right?
00:15:02.380 That doesn't mean, but when you get, and you know this better than anybody,
00:15:05.360 and any college athlete or pro athlete knows this, when you get to elite levels,
00:15:10.960 your husband was an elite male swimmer, you could spend the rest of your life
00:15:17.280 trying to be a faster swimmer than him, I bet, working as hard as you can.
00:15:22.980 Your husband could probably eat a lot of hamburgers, get out of shape, not work that hard,
00:15:29.120 and because, what is he, like 6'3", 6'4", he's bigger, stronger, and faster than you.
00:15:33.680 That is just the reality.
00:15:36.380 In my event of the 200 freestyle, he would hold the American record by over 5 seconds.
00:15:43.880 Yes.
00:15:44.020 And, of course, we know in swimming, even 1 second is a huge amount of time.
00:15:48.580 Just 5 seconds for people who don't follow swimming closely.
00:15:52.180 Swimming is a sport that's measured down to the hundredth of a second.
00:15:55.320 So, to have someone even leading the nation or posting some record-breaking time
00:16:00.820 of by 1 second is a tremendous amount.
00:16:05.220 Yes.
00:16:05.940 5 seconds.
00:16:06.740 I mean, I spent my whole college career dedicated to shaving merely a few 100ths of a second off my time.
00:16:13.360 Let's be real.
00:16:13.880 That's what you do.
00:16:14.780 So, to shave 5 seconds, it will never be broken by any woman.
00:16:18.960 And my husband, he was, sorry, Louie, he was a walk-on swimmer at University of Kentucky, right?
00:16:24.120 Like, it's not like he was some incredible standout.
00:16:27.860 Granted, I think he's really cute.
00:16:29.280 But he's not some incredible stud male swimmer.
00:16:32.700 So, yeah, you're exactly right.
00:16:34.180 So, this is important, I think, all the time.
00:16:36.960 You can believe that everybody should be able to try to aspire to the absolute apex of their ability.
00:16:44.540 But we shouldn't pretend that things that are true are not true because that's the, and to me,
00:16:49.600 antithesis of what we should do as adults in society.
00:16:53.140 We should acknowledge truths.
00:16:54.560 So, with that in mind, one of the WNBA players called me a dumbass for saying,
00:17:01.480 and I think I said it back in February, that a men's, boys, really,
00:17:06.660 boys' high school state championship team would be able to beat, in my opinion, the WNBA champion.
00:17:13.000 And so, one of the WNBA champs are the Las Vegas Aces.
00:17:18.360 And one of those players reached out on Twitter and called me a dumbass.
00:17:23.180 And so, look, if my wife was here, she'd be like,
00:17:26.900 Clay Travis, he has a lot of dumbass opinions.
00:17:28.980 I'm not claiming that I don't sometimes say things that are stupid.
00:17:32.460 I usually will put my money where my mouth is on things like this.
00:17:36.840 And so, I said, I tweeted to her on Friday.
00:17:40.200 I said, look, here's the parameters.
00:17:41.760 You called me a dumbass.
00:17:43.540 I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is.
00:17:45.560 I will pick in 2024, March, when the state champions occur, I will pick a boys' high school
00:17:52.080 state champion team.
00:17:53.420 I will put a million dollars of my own money on that team to beat your team, the WNBA Aces.
00:18:01.400 If I am wrong, then I will give you one million dollars of my own money for you and all your
00:18:07.240 teammates.
00:18:08.080 I'll admit that I was wrong.
00:18:09.600 You can prove me wrong in a game, which is ultimately what athletics is about.
00:18:14.200 Two people think they're better.
00:18:15.580 Somebody's going to win.
00:18:16.600 Survival of the fittest.
00:18:17.900 That's what competition is.
00:18:19.200 All right?
00:18:20.340 If I'm right, though, you guys were betting, give me a million dollars.
00:18:25.260 I will take your million dollars and give it to the boys' high school team because I want
00:18:29.960 to incentivize them to try their hardest to win, too.
00:18:33.480 The WNBA has declined comment.
00:18:36.420 The Las Vegas Aces has declined comment.
00:18:38.880 Riley, I think this would probably be the most watched WNBA game of all time.
00:18:45.580 Everybody, the amount of reaction that just the offer of a million dollars on the table
00:18:49.720 has gotten is massive.
00:18:52.000 And I think it would go a long way toward showing us that, again, biology is real.
00:18:57.420 If I'm wrong and these girls, these women, come out and dominate, more power to them.
00:19:02.400 They get a million dollars of my money.
00:19:04.440 But if I'm right, these high school boys get their money.
00:19:08.140 Either way, to me, it's a compelling sporting event that I think a lot of people would like
00:19:12.480 to watch.
00:19:13.740 No doubt.
00:19:15.140 And just as you said, put your money where your mouth is.
00:19:19.680 What about the player who initially reached out?
00:19:23.120 She won't say a word.
00:19:24.160 She called me, look, there are lots of people, it's probably not going to shock you, Riley.
00:19:28.100 There are lots of people who've called me a dumbass over the years.
00:19:31.200 And a lot of them are my friends.
00:19:33.540 And sometimes they're right.
00:19:35.540 Like, right?
00:19:35.860 I'm not claiming, when you're in the opinion business, sometimes I'm wrong, right?
00:19:39.680 I lose a lot of bets.
00:19:41.320 I did a sports gambling show for four years.
00:19:43.620 I once lost, I think it was 17 straight Major League Baseball bets.
00:19:47.560 That's hard to do.
00:19:49.060 So, look, I'm comfortable with the idea that sometimes I'm wrong.
00:19:54.160 But to call out someone, to get a response that to me seems very fair, hey, not only do
00:19:59.720 I still stick by what my opinion was, but I'll put a million dollars on the line to prove
00:20:04.980 that I'm right, you can prove that I'm wrong, and then run and hide when you actually get
00:20:09.900 called out, I think it's kind of emblematic, frankly, of the social media era in which we
00:20:14.560 live, which is a lot of people run their mouths.
00:20:17.140 But a lot of times when you actually say, okay, let's do something in public with it,
00:20:22.620 there's a lot of hiding.
00:20:24.380 Well, it's like Keith Olbermann, right?
00:20:26.300 It's the same thing.
00:20:27.380 This man, he, I didn't even know who he was.
00:20:30.260 I'd ask my dad.
00:20:31.120 I'm like, who is this old man that's, like, attacking me, Dad?
00:20:33.840 Who is this?
00:20:34.440 He was like, oh, my gosh.
00:20:35.780 He was an ESPN commentator when I played.
00:20:38.080 And so, coming after me, you jump in and defend me and my position, and you say, you
00:20:46.200 know, I'd love to have you on the show.
00:20:48.160 We can debate anywhere where you want, anytime, anyplace, crickets.
00:20:52.760 And again, I think it's telling.
00:20:54.100 It's emblematic, just as you said.
00:20:55.940 It shows you that they can't back what they're saying.
00:20:58.680 For people who don't know, Keith Olbermann, just out of nowhere, said the reason you lost
00:21:03.480 to Leah Thomas, and I'm paraphrasing, was because you just stunk as a swimmer, right?
00:21:07.800 Like, out of nowhere, Keith Olbermann, who was like 60 years old, probably the most
00:21:11.880 devastating thing to him, honestly, given his ego, that you had to ask your dad who
00:21:16.340 he was, because I bet he was like, because when I was a kid, Keith Olbermann, like, I've
00:21:23.140 said this before.
00:21:23.800 If you had told me when I was 13 years old, when I was eating breakfast, watching Sports
00:21:27.900 Center in the morning, that Keith Olbermann was ever going to know my name, I'd be like,
00:21:32.080 this is, oh, I can't believe this.
00:21:34.140 But this is where, you know, this left-wing insanity leads.
00:21:39.120 You're just randomly going and attacking you.
00:21:42.700 And by the way, you broke a trophy, showing trophies, and to the credit of the Southeastern
00:21:48.620 Conference, they replaced the trophy that got broken, right?
00:21:52.040 So it's now, I think that's right.
00:21:54.400 Of course.
00:21:55.000 No, they did.
00:21:55.440 They sent a brand new one to my house, which was super duper cool.
00:22:00.540 And I think, again, to my point in that video to Olbermann, I had so many of those trophies
00:22:08.140 that I didn't even care that I broke it, right?
00:22:10.300 Like, who cares?
00:22:12.060 But that was really cool.
00:22:13.060 They sent me another one.
00:22:13.980 So yeah, that was pretty awesome.
00:22:15.780 But that's where this left-wing insanity, that's where I would call out Keith Olbermann, if you
00:22:21.380 have spent your whole life covering sports, you know how much there is in biology, right?
00:22:28.440 If it's some MSNBC commentator who never played sports and isn't involved in sports and they
00:22:35.100 want to have a political take, I give them a little bit of a pass because they're just
00:22:39.340 not cognizant of the difference.
00:22:41.440 But Keith Olbermann made a career in sports.
00:22:43.680 He knows the difference and he actually reached out and told you that you suck because you
00:22:49.360 weren't able to be a man.
00:22:52.640 Like, he knows better and he's allowed the dogma of his political beliefs to, in my opinion,
00:23:00.220 totally destroy his brain.
00:23:02.420 No doubt.
00:23:03.180 But you're exactly right.
00:23:04.120 That's why I have a problem with the IOC.
00:23:06.820 That's why I have a problem with the NCAA and people at ESPN who explicitly cover sports.
00:23:12.000 They know the difference.
00:23:14.460 Yet they're choosing to ignore it.
00:23:16.320 They're choosing to lie.
00:23:18.380 I mean, you can't convince me that they actually believe these things because I know they don't.
00:23:22.540 I think this is important.
00:23:23.680 It also shows who has real political power.
00:23:26.000 Of course.
00:23:26.560 Because trans people were actually in the danger and fear that they claim.
00:23:32.940 Wouldn't the political power not all be aligned behind them?
00:23:38.880 Everybody is afraid of being targeted by the trans community, which is why all these guys are afraid to say what they actually believe.
00:23:46.680 Like, I got into it with an ESPN SportsCenter anchor, you know, over the summer, I think.
00:23:51.720 I said, dude, just answer this question.
00:23:53.840 Do you think that women should be able to compete with men should be able to compete against women and win women's championships?
00:24:02.100 If you are in sports and you won't answer that question, no, then you aren't in sports.
00:24:08.300 You are in politics and pretending.
00:24:13.700 Could not have said it better.
00:24:15.920 And you should be fired immediately.
00:24:17.700 I remember when ESPN came out during Women's History Month and started posting Thomas as this brave, stunning, inspiring individual who has conquered the seemingly impossible through adversity and persecution and blah, blah, blah.
00:24:32.000 I remember watching that thinking, if I was a woman at ESPN and this was going on, I would walk out.
00:24:40.440 I mean, I would.
00:24:41.380 I know it's easier said than done.
00:24:43.040 Of course, it's easier said than done.
00:24:44.380 But how could, as a woman working at ESPN, you watch that and think, yes, no, it's crazy.
00:24:51.320 I've made this analogy.
00:24:52.520 I think you can, you know, sprinkle it in every now and then on some of your speaking engagements.
00:24:58.220 Men don't stand for this.
00:24:59.420 And I think this is women's openness and friendliness and just genuine kindness actually being taken advantage of.
00:25:10.440 I totally agree.
00:25:11.840 You mentioned Bud Light.
00:25:13.640 When Bud Light tried to get men to drink beer by saying, hey, this is a dude pretending to be a girl, guys just said, no, we're not going to do this.
00:25:23.140 Like, there's no woman who identifies as a man that is being named the man of the year anyway, right?
00:25:30.600 Like, because men would just be like, what are you talking about?
00:25:32.480 Like, you're not a man.
00:25:33.340 Like, you're certainly not the man of the year.
00:25:34.960 This is insulting.
00:25:36.140 Like, you've been a man your whole life and you decide to become a woman and in the first year you get woman of the year?
00:25:42.620 I mean, this is like, I get it.
00:25:44.740 It's like pull your hair out crazy.
00:25:46.160 But I think it's because men will just call out the BS.
00:25:50.220 And I think a lot of women are worried.
00:25:53.140 I had this conversation with my wife about being considered unkind.
00:25:57.620 And so they aren't willing to call out when, in my opinion, the gender is being made a mockery of.
00:26:04.820 Because my wife, and I bet you feel the same way, she gets really fired up about this.
00:26:08.120 She said, you know what, a man who is 25 and suddenly decides to become a man, a woman, or whatever.
00:26:13.720 Like, he wasn't 16 walking through a parking lot late at night terrified that he was going to get raped, right?
00:26:19.400 Like, with, you know, like the keys ready to be used as a, like, and I think that, obviously, I haven't had any of this experience.
00:26:26.620 I never, like, lived through that.
00:26:28.080 I never think about it.
00:26:29.340 But there are a ton of things that women deal with that men never even contemplate.
00:26:35.960 And it would be such the height of arrogance for me to say, oh, now I'm a woman, and I know exactly what you're dealing with.
00:26:43.200 No, you wouldn't.
00:26:44.080 Like, you couldn't possibly, because I never grew up and experienced it.
00:26:47.120 Anyway, so I've actually talked to a lot of people about this, because it's not just that it's crazy to me.
00:26:52.900 It's that I'm trying to even conceptualize what that would be like.
00:26:56.380 And the one that ultimately comes home, Riley, is if I said to you right now, hey, I'm black, or hey, I'm Asian, or hey, I'm Hispanic, it would be super racist of me to make that argument.
00:27:09.060 Yet I think men of all races and women of all races have far more in common with each other than men and women do from a biological perspective, right?
00:27:20.280 So, one, it's brave to be a different sex, but it's racist to be a different race.
00:27:25.280 I can't ever reconcile that in my mind.
00:27:27.800 No.
00:27:28.500 And one more point, because I think it's really interesting, about how men wouldn't put up with it.
00:27:33.440 Notice we're even changing the language that we use as it pertains to women.
00:27:38.240 We're now being called cervix havers and uterus owners and menstruators and bleeders and chest feeders and birthing people and whatever else.
00:27:45.340 Do you think men, for one second, would put up with being called erection havers or sperm producers?
00:27:53.720 No way.
00:27:55.080 No way.
00:27:56.460 And again, it shows, we talk a lot about our physical differences between men and women in this argument, but it shows the innate personality traits that differ, too.
00:28:05.840 Because the men who are entering, who are identifying, self-identifying as women, who are entering into our spaces, are demanding the language that we call them.
00:28:14.200 They're the same aggressive, assertive men that they were when they were born.
00:28:19.640 It's innate.
00:28:20.600 No, you made on our Outkick show we did on Fox News a really good point that I had not thought about that much.
00:28:27.040 Even something simple like saying biological woman is acquiescing to the concept that there's some other kind of woman or like biological man.
00:28:36.160 And the other part of this is, if we want to talk, and I think a lot of this is overanalyzed, but if we want to talk about white privilege,
00:28:44.860 how is there not a bigger white male privilege than deciding to be a woman, becoming a women's champion, and a woman of the year in like the first year and a half that you've ever been?
00:29:01.120 Yes, they're oppressed.
00:29:02.660 Yeah.
00:29:03.200 They're the ones who are marginalized.
00:29:05.360 No, isn't this the patriarchy they were so worried about?
00:29:09.640 We now have men explaining to women what feminism is.
00:29:14.080 And claim that they get periods.
00:29:16.700 Like, I don't even understand.
00:29:18.360 Like, again, I'm not an expert on women's life.
00:29:20.780 I've been married almost 20 years.
00:29:22.760 I'm confident that I've never had any period-related issues.
00:29:27.020 So maybe that's going to change in the future, and I'll be the woman of the year.
00:29:29.400 Are you sure?
00:29:30.200 Yeah.
00:29:30.460 I mean, the thing is, Riley, if I pivoted and I just totally decided that I was a chick,
00:29:36.320 I would love to just see the reaction as, like, would I suddenly be brave that I was being my true self?
00:29:44.360 I mean, this is crazy talk, right?
00:29:46.020 Like, I just, I can't, it makes me, I've used the analogy a couple times, but it does,
00:29:50.820 because I look around and I just think the world has truly gone crazy.
00:29:54.860 Because as I told you, when I started writing online, like, we just did drinking games and talked about who was going to win SEC football games.
00:30:01.500 I did never think the country was going to go so crazy, but also that so few people would be willing to speak the truth that I would look around and be like,
00:30:08.400 well, if I don't do it, nobody else is going to do it.
00:30:10.320 And I think that's where you've found yourself now, too.
00:30:12.960 Of course.
00:30:14.480 You have a new book, American Playbook.
00:30:18.180 Talk about it.
00:30:18.960 I want you to be able to tell people where they can get it, where it's available, what's it about?
00:30:23.600 Well, coincidentally, I have it sitting within five feet of me everywhere in my house.
00:30:27.800 But this book is out.
00:30:29.340 I travel all over the country.
00:30:31.520 I spend a lot of time, you met a couple of my boys, I think, when you were out at the house,
00:30:35.260 wondering, not only, look, I'm 44, I've probably lived, you know, roughly half my life, maybe more than it, more than half.
00:30:45.320 And I think a lot about the country that is going to be left behind for my boys who are 15, 13 and nine.
00:30:51.000 And this book is my answer to how do we get back to a sense of normalcy and what I think is the best country that's ever existed in the history of the world.
00:31:00.480 And so this is my answer.
00:31:01.820 I feel like, and I'm sure you know exactly what the concept is, when you're active every day with radio or TV or podcasts,
00:31:10.660 it very often feels like you're a short order cook because you're always responding to whatever chaos is occurring in the moment.
00:31:17.800 And so for the book, I felt like I could take a step back and say, OK, I want this to be good a year from now.
00:31:23.940 I want this to be good two years from now.
00:31:25.800 What would make America sane again?
00:31:29.160 That's kind of the concept behind the fabric in which the book was written.
00:31:33.700 Wonderful.
00:31:34.540 I think people are hungry to hear it.
00:31:37.840 So thank you for coming on.
00:31:40.180 Thank you for everything that you do.
00:31:41.660 You have an amazing team here at Outkick.
00:31:43.880 I am so, so grateful to be a part of it.
00:31:46.200 And you're just someone I admire.
00:31:48.420 You're someone who is genuine and personable and smart, which is rare.
00:31:54.280 Unfortunately, that's hard to find.
00:31:56.120 But you're one of those people.
00:31:57.340 I appreciate you.
00:31:58.500 I appreciate the compliments.
00:31:59.780 But the truth of the matter is you are far braver than me and you are doing it at a far, far younger age.
00:32:05.880 And what you are doing, I genuinely believe this, is massively important for tons of women out there, a lot of whom may not have even been born yet.
00:32:16.180 The quote that I keep coming back to that Outkick had up, and I know you understand this, is we had a UPenn swimmer who said, and it might have been Paula, who now it may have been her quote.
00:32:26.000 And if it was, I give her credit for this, but she said, you know, if I have kids one day, I hope they are boys, because otherwise, if I have girls, one swimmer on the Penn women's swimming team has done this.
00:32:40.880 There may not be spots for women.
00:32:42.540 And that's crazy, and it's anti-Title IX, and it's anti the entire basis upon which sports have existed and continue to exist.
00:32:49.480 And so I hope we keep fighting, and I know you are killing it, and I'm thankful we have you at Outkick.
00:32:55.260 But I appreciate your bravery going all over the country and speaking what is unquestionably the truth to people that are trying to keep you from saying.
00:33:04.120 Onward. Full steam ahead.
00:33:06.340 Thank you. Keep up the good work.
00:33:09.340 Thanks to Clay for coming on.
00:33:11.720 Isn't he just the coolest?
00:33:14.220 There are very few in this space who are as awesome and unapologetic as he is.
00:33:18.580 Make sure you go check out his book, American Playbook.
00:33:20.740 You can go to the www.rallygaincenter.org to check out the Rally Gain Center.
00:33:27.280 See where a couple of different universities and college campuses that I'm speaking at coming up soon.
00:33:33.480 Thanks for listening.
00:33:34.540 You can get your podcast where you get any podcasts.
00:33:37.940 Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Outkick.com.
00:33:41.760 Thank you for tuning in, and I will see you guys next week.
00:33:44.240 We'll see you next week.