00:00:26.960New series now streaming exclusively on Paramount+.
00:00:30.000they just can't help themselves time and time and time again democrats prove themselves to be
00:00:41.080anti-woman oh my gosh we have an incredible guest today her name is kaylee ray she is
00:00:46.520a former volleyball player female volleyball player at utah state university uh she has
00:00:52.640recently been a critical advocate of the inclusion of men and women's sports she's been testifying
00:00:58.780all across the country, most recently in the state of Arizona, where a viral interaction
00:01:04.100happened between her and a female, a woman, a female Democratic state senator. Excited to show
00:01:11.140you that, get Kaylee's response and more. Stay tuned for this episode of The Riley Gaines Show.
00:01:17.360Well, Kaylee, thank you for joining The Riley Gaines Show. I have so enjoyed getting to like
00:01:22.720know you over the past few years and even prior to clicking record, learning more things about you.
00:01:27.500I just admire you and your courage. Can you speak to just, I mean, just for a brief moment of,
00:01:33.900I think it's important for viewers or listeners to understand just how much of your life,
00:01:39.040whether that be social sacrifices, physical sacrifices, the emotional toll, the mental toll
00:01:43.780that playing sports, especially at the high level takes on a female athlete like yourself. Can you
00:01:50.860kind of explain your background. Yeah. Well, thanks for having me on. Of course. Um,
00:01:56.980when I say it takes up all your time, I mean, this is the only thing I focused on doing all
00:02:03.320growing up. It's the only way I made friends was through participating in sport and volleyball,
00:02:09.120um, dedicated all my time. If I wasn't working on stuff for school or if I wasn't spending time
00:02:15.180with my family I was training in the gym working out doing everything I could to prepare my body
00:02:23.080much less than getting there to the division one level people are so quick to assume that
00:02:29.140student athletes have it easy and I cannot emphasize enough how that is just not the case
00:02:34.260balancing the work of college on top of training recovering lifting strength and conditioning
00:02:43.880practicing for hours on end like it it is your whole world and it definitely becomes fused with
00:02:50.300your identity of who you are as a person yeah 100 all of those things on top of trying to maintain
00:02:57.040some sort of social life which as a division one athlete is is truthfully nearly impossible unless
00:03:02.520you know the the relationships you as you just alluded to and certainly as i experience the
00:03:08.120relationships that i think are closest to you are your teammates so people who are kind of in the
00:03:12.960trenches with you. So you go to Utah State University. Can you talk about what you experienced
00:03:20.700even maybe prior to finding out that you would at some point soon be competing against a team
00:03:27.580that had a man on it? Yeah. I mean, it's really difficult, the adjustment. I thought I'm a super
00:03:34.820independent person. College will be easy. And I will say like the living on my own, doing my own
00:03:40.460laundry, cooking my own meals, that wasn't any trouble for me. But learning to balance the
00:03:46.700demands of my coaches with what I actually wanted and with school and receiving an education,
00:03:54.980it became quite a difficult juggle. On top of that, I got hit with some health challenges
00:04:02.620pretty early on in my career that also just added another layer of stress and devoting time and
00:04:11.060energy to things that weren't involving my sport or my social life. So sport is usually where you
00:04:19.960get your fulfillment in those spaces. And when sport isn't going so well, it can be really
00:04:26.700difficult, the mental toll, the emotional strain that that puts on a student athlete. And I'm sure
00:04:33.760every college athlete out there listening to this right now is like, I know exactly what she's
00:04:38.720talking about. Totally. Well, as you said, you place so much of your identity in your success
00:04:44.500as an athlete. And so when that's not going well, the rest of your life tends to go down with it.
00:04:50.440Yeah. And it's really hard navigating relationships, particularly between player and coach and then professors and strength and conditioning coaches and trainers and your teammates, leaders.
00:05:06.140And, you know, just when we have foreigners on the team, like there's a lot that you are tasked with navigating early on.
00:05:13.380um and so i would just say being a college athlete isn't easy much less when you have men
00:05:21.160invading your sport talk about that talk about the first time you learned that san jose state
00:05:27.100university a school in your conference had a man on their team and that that you guys would be
00:05:32.360playing this team um so i had first in in 2022 um we had competed against san jose and that was
00:05:41.880the first time that we saw the biological male named Blair originally Brayden I believe um
00:05:48.940competing and my teammates and I immediately knew like this is not a female athlete um of course we
00:05:58.360had why do you say that was it was it the physical of it like sheerly playing against him you could
00:06:04.280notice a difference yes especially in volleyball I can't speak to other sports having like not
00:06:10.500really played other sports. Um, but this person in the physicality and the way that they played
00:06:17.040in volleyball, when you're attacking the ball, some people call it spiking, but if you play
00:06:22.320volleyball and you just call it attacking, um, as someone is going to hit the ball on the men's
00:06:28.440side of the game, there is so much more torque. You kind of see, it's almost like the body as
00:06:34.220they're swinging like folds in half um in girls that's significantly less like it's there but
00:06:40.840you can just see if you just watch clips of this player playing the torque the physicality and not
00:06:48.100to mention the height of the vertical it was very apparent to us like that's a dude and even a men's
00:06:57.340volleyball net is like what seven and a half inches higher than a women's net right yes so
00:07:04.760that that right there acknowledges that biological differences exist yes and even at like the
00:07:12.420youngest of ages like the boys high school teams play on that higher net than the women's um and
00:07:21.300growing up having an older brother who eventually in high school went on to play volleyball
00:07:27.160he had like a 44 inch vertical even on the men's net was jumping over the height of the men's net
00:07:34.380very easily um so it was very apparent to me when we first saw this player like that something here
00:07:42.820is not like the others so my teammates and I had speculations um we made comments amongst ourselves
00:07:48.860but it was very new we were just confused couldn't possibly understand and it wasn't
00:07:56.500confirmed to us. So then you're kind of left thinking, am I judging someone unfairly? You
00:08:02.500know, there's a lot as women, we're kind of taught to be pleasant and pleasing and have people like
00:08:08.820you and don't say stuff that might rock the boat. So a lot of that was just locker room talk. Like
00:08:15.060we kept it to ourselves. Um, in 2023, um, we continued to make those same comments is very
00:08:22.620obvious to us that player, um, was out for most of the season, um, with a thumb, allegedly a thumb
00:08:31.160injury. Um, Brooke can speak more to what was actually going on then. But, um, again, we had
00:08:39.160made comments and my coach, my head coach at that time, then confirmed to one of the players on the
00:08:46.480team because he was friends with the San Jose state coach at the time. Like, no, that is,
00:08:51.760that is a transgender player, had told us, now we're like, okay, puzzle pieces are clicking
00:08:59.520into place here. Like, we weren't wrong. We're not dumb. And then right before they were to come
00:09:07.940play us at our gym, administrators came into our team film room and talked to us before the match
00:09:14.960and said, um, as you know, as you probably know by now, but at this point it wasn't public knowledge.
00:09:23.600It was just amongst our team. And they had said any, if we hear any comments, any derogatory
00:09:30.700comments, um, from players or fans, like you will be ejected immediately. There's no tolerance for
00:09:36.960that. Um, and I guess San Jose state had reached out, their administration had reached out prior
00:09:42.860to ensure that our gym would be a safe space for this athlete.
00:09:50.460And that was when feelings started to really take root.
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00:11:45.660efforts to censor you even in the form of self-censorship even when you feel scared for
00:11:52.520the threats or the risk that could potentially exist that should definitely be a major red flag
00:11:58.940what was kind of like the conversation among the team at that point like your teammates yeah
00:12:04.660everyone was just so unsure it was such a bizarre thing that nobody knew how to handle it we hadn't
00:12:12.700seen this before we had obviously talked to our parents and it was kind of understood amongst the
00:12:19.100team like this isn't right but also like these people are in charge like what else can we do
00:12:25.860about it. Can't do anything about it. Um, so we ended up playing, I, I think, um, Blair maybe
00:12:34.400played for a second, um, but not much because they were still coming back. He was still coming
00:12:42.320back from the injury, I guess. Um, but that was the last time, um, I played against San Jose State
00:12:50.260And then some stirrings had happened the following spring, and then it was confirmed publicly and it became public knowledge prior to the 2024 season. And that was when kind of we realized that, oh, we were right in feeling like this was a big deal. And maybe now we're actually in a place where we can do something about it.
00:13:14.380Talk about that. I'm sure the people watching or listening to this can recall. It seems our society has very short memories, but just not even two years ago, your team really kick-started a slew of other teams in making a bold statement and essentially boycotting, effectively forfeiting, a game against San Jose State University.
00:13:40.260can you talk about the decision behind this and the conversations that went into this and and one
00:13:47.040of the things that I want to know is if you had support from administration maybe your coaching
00:13:52.060staff or even higher-ups in the decision to not play against San Jose State yeah um well obviously
00:13:59.620we had heard that in the preseason southern Utah had refused to play San Jose and
00:14:08.040because it's a preseason match it doesn't it doesn't really affect you know the conference
00:14:14.000standings or anything like that so there was no penalty for southern Utah to back out of that
00:14:19.000match um but then we started to hear and like talking to girls on other teams you know like
00:14:25.640there's a potential here to make a really big statement and like let the country know like put
00:14:31.420everyone on notice that like this is not something we're going to stand for anymore um I believe that
00:14:37.620I had been talking to my parents and my dad had actually reached out to you, um, and got us in
00:14:43.700touch. And it was such a huge support to me at that time. Um, cause you were immediately like,
00:14:49.440I've been talking to university presidents. I've been reaching out to athletic directors. Like
00:14:54.000I'm well aware of the situation at hand. And to just finally, it was like the first time that I
00:14:59.720was like, Oh, like someone's on my side here. And it's not just like my team and I against the world.
00:15:06.920So it was the first time I kind of felt like I could breathe a little bit.
00:15:29.840And I was kind of outspoken against her publicly.
00:15:33.160um but I honestly think it made her respect me a little bit more and so in conversations with her
00:15:41.080that followed obviously she was incredibly supportive of my stance on the issue and she
00:15:47.780I I felt the most support from her um and you know from my coaching staff the support was not
00:15:55.440really there. Um, they didn't want to draw attention. It was a hot button topic. They
00:16:03.120didn't want to be controversial. Um, anything to just, you know, you know, shut down, be quiet
00:16:12.060about it. Um, but yeah, my athletic director at the time, um, she was really someone that I
00:16:18.560grew to rely on in that, um, and have very open and plain conversations about what can the
00:16:24.740university do? What can we do? Ultimately in my communications with her, um, they sent out an
00:16:31.960anonymous survey to the girls on our team while we were away on a travel trip. I like want to
00:16:37.360emphasize that, that this is taking away time and focus so much energy. It was a distraction all
00:16:47.140season. Like nobody could focus on playing volleyball. We're away on a travel trip about
00:16:52.680to compete against a team and here we are like dealing with the weight of this massive issue
00:16:59.680um that they sent out an anonymous survey to let us vote on it of sorts and then based on our
00:17:06.660responses the university president and athletic director helped us make that decision that's so
00:17:13.880good that you at least had someone administratively in your corner as opposed to a university president
00:17:21.520um number one lying to you as they did at san jose state university to to brooks team to the
00:17:27.340women's volleyball team um but forcing you to play uh do you know if the result from the poll
00:17:34.760was unanimous um i think just in conversations amongst the girls on my team it was unanimous
00:17:41.000um we weren't like we didn't talk about it other than in the locker room everyone together i know
00:17:48.500for some girls, it was, it was very hard issue. Um, those people that want to be very compassionate
00:17:57.280and understanding, but like you've said a hundred times, where is the compassion for the girls?
00:18:03.240Where's the compassion for the women actually playing? Um, so I knew some girls were divided,
00:18:08.960but ultimately agreed, like it's wrong. It's wrong for a man to be in a woman's sport. Um,
00:18:15.720a biological male. Um, I know that led to really difficult conversations with family members and
00:18:22.060kind of families being torn apart from this conferences, girls, um, Wyoming's team in
00:18:28.060particular. I knew that their whole team like split on the issue. It was really difficult.
00:18:33.840And that's something I want people to realize because again, unless you've played a competitive
00:18:38.780sport, it's really hard to grasp again, not just the sacrifices, but I mean, think of the seniors.
00:18:44.220this could have been i mean it was it was their last season playing especially when we're talking
00:18:49.620about the the conference championship like this prematurely ended their career like the fact that
00:18:56.520this was a burden that young college girls 18 19 20 year old girls had to had to carry
00:19:03.720there are so many fingers to be pointed here so many people to blame i remember being heartbroken
00:19:09.500at the time because, of course, you guys doing what you did, other universities, Wyoming,
00:19:15.900University of Nevada, Reno, these other schools, of course, it takes such boldness and courage
00:19:21.260to do that, to effectively say, no, enough is enough. But it is so tragic that you even had to.
00:19:28.760You're sacrificing your season. In some cases, again, especially for the seniors,
00:19:33.220you're sacrificing your entire career. And so you mentioned that Southern Utah,
00:19:38.200they didn't necessarily have a penalty by you guys forfeiting against San Jose State University.
00:19:42.980What was kind of at stake there? We took a loss on our record. For us, we were only scheduled to
00:19:50.960play San Jose once that year. So it was only one loss on our record that we had to take,
00:19:56.220which utterly bizarre how that even came to pass Mountain West Conference, very shady in the way
00:20:05.660they went about passing that rule under the table where by refusing to play a team, you'd have to
00:20:11.120take a loss on your record. And that was exactly what kept Wyoming from the Mountain West Conference
00:20:19.800tournament was because these teams were forfeiting to San Jose and San Jose was getting unfair wins
00:20:26.700on their record. They just got to walk into the tournament as a two seed, get the first round by.
00:20:32.380um i mean the whole thing that it's it was a farce like the mountain west conference
00:20:38.780tournament did not reflect the best teams that season and like you said ended careers early and
00:20:46.480for the people that strove their whole life worked endlessly to get to this level and all you are
00:20:55.480competing for is winning a conference championship it's winning a national championship whatever it
00:21:01.300may be. That's always been the end goal. And to have to give it up and walk away because
00:21:07.580the Mountain West commissioner decided this was going to be the case and the San Jose
00:21:12.600coaches and administration decided that this person's identity was more important. The fact
00:21:18.460that those girls had to give up dreams for a sport that they had worked their whole lives for,
00:21:24.180like it just makes you so nauseous and so sick. It does. It really is so sick and it is so
00:21:30.400incredibly unfair. And again, they do it under the guise of being kind and being inclusive and
00:21:35.940being compassionate and all these fantastic buzzwords that sound good on paper. But all the
00:21:41.360while it's you all as women who were absolutely and entirely sidelined, like you were actually
00:21:48.800being used to validate a man's feelings. Who cares about your own? He is the one that matters,
00:21:55.500right? You even talked about how your gym had to create a safe space, which that's the stupidest
00:22:00.860thing ever. Everyone is allowed to play volleyball, right? No one prevented him from playing sports.
00:22:06.800He just has to compete in the adequate and accurate category, the men's category.
00:22:14.020Right. And I also just think it's so funny to walk into an opponent's gym and expect it to be
00:22:19.200a safe place. Are we joking? Like what is sports about? I'm sorry. Exactly. Exactly.
00:22:24.520And so what has the last few years, I guess maybe the past year and a half, looked like for you in terms of maybe personal growth or advocacy?
00:22:38.920Of course, I saw you on the Supreme Court steps recently.
00:22:41.700So you have clearly taken the initiative to continue to use your voice and to lend your name and your face to such a critical issue.
00:22:49.800What has the past year and a half looked like?
00:22:51.520Um, it's been a lot of just plain conversations with people and relentlessly working to make sure. I mean, my strongest motivation for me right now, actually, I have a little baby niece, she's about to turn a year old. And I want her to have all the same opportunities and more than I did.
00:23:13.820And the thought of her ever having to experience the emotions, the trauma that we had to go through, much less the girls like Brooke who were in it and had to see that every single day, those feelings, which someone couldn't possibly be able to comprehend looking on the outside, I never, ever want another girl to feel like that.
00:23:41.520like girls like Macy Petty, Peyton McNabb, Lauren Miller, like Stephanie Turner, the list goes on
00:23:49.700and on and on. And that is exactly the problem. So I have no trouble these days standing up and
00:23:56.500speaking out. It gets easier when you keep doing it. And I've learned that courage kind of begets
00:24:02.340courage. And the more that I am courageous and upfront about this, the more that I find other
00:24:08.280people are too. Uh, just amongst my teammates, I know like we have really been inspired on this
00:24:14.640cause. Well, courage begets courage. And I think in, and that is certainly an outcome of speaking
00:24:20.440out, but maybe an unintended outcome of speaking out is the other side throws a pie in their own
00:24:27.160face. Oftentimes as they simply can't rebuttal this issue. They really can't in terms of fairness,
00:24:33.160in terms of safety as it pertains to locker rooms or, you know, especially in this case,
00:24:38.400sharing overnight accommodations in terms of privacy. You recently were testifying before
00:24:43.700the Arizona State Senate. We have a video. We're going to play it really quick.
00:24:50.000I mean, I have my sports hat on now. It's all about a sports mentality growing up in sports,
00:24:56.740being a tomboy. I mean, you look pretty healthy. I've played against girls that
00:25:01.940that look like you. You look very much in shape and strong. But it's a sports mentality when
00:25:08.540you're growing up and how much competition that you'll take on. So it's not just a silver bullet
00:25:17.580for one community of sports players. It's the individual person on how competitive you want
00:25:26.440to be. So you grew up one way. I grew up a different way. I would have taken on a man
00:25:30.860in a heartbeat i played in um i was the only girl sometimes in men's sports but to have a man on my
00:25:39.640team i would have welcomed it but this is just my opinion so it just depends on the sports mentality
00:25:45.200of that individual and that's why this bill is bad because you're just putting
00:25:50.320a whole community of women's sports in one kind of category when women like me we have a different
00:25:58.440opinion. So how competitive do you think you really are? Yeah, Kaylee playing at the division
00:26:04.640one level, how competitive really are you? You don't want a man playing on, on the court with
00:26:10.180you. Well, you're just simply an unserious athlete. I mean, the level of narcissism that
00:26:16.280was exuding from this woman all while she has like this very prideful smile on her face.
00:26:23.380there's so much I could say here. I don't know how you didn't explode in the moment listening
00:26:30.140to this. Your response actually was beautiful. You, of course, were so composed and respectful.
00:26:36.220What was your initial thoughts in hearing this? I mean, she starts off by commenting on my body
00:26:45.760and then proceeds to move into how, well, we obviously grew up different ways. Well,
00:26:52.060surely we must have, because I don't know the mental gymnastics you have to do to make the
00:26:57.880argument the way she did. It's, it's, it was astounding. Um, I was honestly just a little
00:27:03.580bit in shock, a lot of disbelief for her to say the words, I would have welcomed a man on my team.
00:27:12.200I was like shaking, my hands were shaking. I just thought, and she did have that smug.
00:27:19.260she looked down on me like here little girl let me educate you you know and that like patronizing
00:27:28.500like that is just one thing I can never ever like stand behind I was to for someone in my position
00:27:36.740to walk in front of a committee in the senate it can be a little daunting um I really appreciated
00:27:43.540the senators who said thank you for sharing your testimony you know like that's it's not an easy
00:27:48.560thing to do um but for her to just say everything she said and then be like but that's my opinion
00:27:54.960and then when i finished my response back to her as i'm walking away she goes thanks for your
00:28:01.500opinion and it's like it's so utterly dismissive but i can't be surprised because that's what they
00:28:09.740do they dismiss they abandon they have to ignore basic fact to justify anything that comes out of
00:28:18.200her mouth. Yeah. The you're right. It was so patronizing. I don't think she realized, well,
00:28:26.140I have to imagine she didn't, uh, how deeply regressive what she's saying is how utterly
00:28:32.260misogynistic. And you're right. She, she says she would welcome a man on her team. Cool. But guess
00:28:38.840what? You don't get to consent on behalf of all women. I mean, it was just the most insane line
00:28:44.660of questioning or, or I guess her thought process there. But one of the things that was remarkable
00:28:49.520to me, and we saw Greg Gutfeld say this, uh, earlier this week on Fox was at least she is
00:28:56.120acknowledging that, that he's a man, right? I think that's a pretty big step. And I think
00:29:00.340it was overlooked by many, including myself. I don't think I initially came to this conclusion
00:29:04.780because people like you and me, we've been calling them in for, I mean, because our eyes
00:29:09.220work and we have functioning brains and a fifth grade understanding of biology. We've been calling
00:29:13.680the men, but to see a Democrat legislator say outright, maybe indirectly, but certainly directly
00:29:20.920saying that this was a man, that's a pretty big step in the right direction. I think so. I mean,
00:29:26.820it came out of her mouth must be, must be true. And for her to say, you know, you look really
00:29:32.460healthy. Like I'm, I'm baffled. I'm baffled because you can, you can tell what she's insinuating
00:29:40.840there. It is absurd to me that anyone who claims to be a fierce defender of women's rights
00:29:47.920supports these people in this party. Deeply regressive, utterly misogynistic.
00:29:54.100It was so exactly what she said. Regressive. That is such a perfect word for what it was
00:30:00.720to say is to essentially advocate for the abolition of Title IX in a women's category
00:30:08.260altogether was so upsetting and unbelievable that the words actually came out of her mouth
00:30:15.180and and to like you said insinuate that maybe my physical stature or how my body looks should
00:30:25.760correlate to being able to take on a man and to then say I just like must have lacked competitive
00:30:34.160spirit it's i have no words it truly baffles the mind that this was an argument that she has that
00:30:43.380smug look on her face like she thinks she's doing something with it i hope that you have felt
00:30:48.280incredibly supported online and i hope that she feels uh like the dunce that she is that's putting
00:30:55.780it very kindly there are several things that i could call her um that come to mind but but i
00:31:01.160think dunce is appropriate i hope she understands now maybe it takes public backlash to feel that
00:31:09.140i hope she understands just what she was saying and just how harmful it is not just to girls like
00:31:14.960you but you're right to girls like your niece to girls like now my daughter the next generation
00:31:18.920i i hope and pray desperately that she doesn't have kids she doesn't have daughters because
00:31:24.160i can't imagine one day growing up and watching a tape of my mom say that to another young girl
00:31:30.600understanding how she's undermining and diminishing the opportunities for me as her
00:31:38.400potential daughter to succeed and to achieve. That is crazy. And so I guess my question for you
00:31:44.320kind of wrapping up here is, is it worth it? Have you found it to be fulfilling and satisfactory?
00:31:53.260And do you think we're moving the needle here? I think we are. I really do. It's becoming more
00:32:00.160of an open conversation, people are starting to recognize that this is common sense. This is a
00:32:05.880common sense issue. This is basic biology, basic understanding, basic truth. It has been very
00:32:13.520fulfilling to me in standing up. I have found a community of people that have no shame in standing
00:32:19.940for what is right. And I think telling the truth is a compassionate thing. And I believe that
00:32:26.640surrounding myself by people who are unafraid to stand for the truth, um, has definitely inspired
00:32:33.400me to keep moving forward. I know we are certainly far from over. Obviously I'm hoping that that bill
00:32:39.120passes in the Senate, um, and we can get that on the ballot for Arizona voters, um, to make a
00:32:45.900decision about, um, obviously we don't want to leave it in the hands of people like Senator
00:32:50.600Miranda. Um, but I do, I think we're moving it forward. And like you said, the fact that she
00:32:56.680agreed it's a man, we must be getting somewhere. Um, but I know that the fight is far from over
00:33:02.780and my energy is revamped. I'm ready to go. Well, thank God for it. And thank God for you.
00:33:10.660Um, truthfully, I'm, I'm just so grateful, um, because you are, you are fighting for the future
00:33:15.300of, of my daughter, your niece, and that's what it's about. So thank you, Kaylee.
00:33:18.680thank you i wouldn't be able to do this without you first trailblazing the path so
00:33:24.420oh please well onwards with full steam ahead yes together thank you guys for tuning in to
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