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00:00:19.360What happens when a Yale-educated lawyer, a mom of three, a wife of a U.S. senator, takes on the FDA over the abortion pill that's now used in the majority of abortions?
00:00:28.120and could those little blue pills be quietly affecting something as fundamental as our
00:00:32.800drinking water? Listen here. Well, Erin, thank you so much for joining the Riley Gaines show.
00:00:39.960I'm super excited to kind of get the latest update on where we are regarding the pro-life
00:00:44.500movement. But before we get into that, I was doing some research on you. I think a lot of people know
00:00:49.920who your husband is and maybe a little bit of background on you, but I found out a lot. I found
00:00:54.340out that you grew up on a cattle ranch in rural new mexico you've clerked for for chief justices
00:00:59.540i believe chief justice john roberts of course you've been before the supreme court can you
00:01:04.740kind of give us a little background on ultimately what shaped your path to where you are now
00:01:08.760sure so so it really is one of those things sort of an only god could do this type of story
00:01:14.160um i grew up on a ranch in the middle of nowhere new mexico um the nearest grocery store was
00:01:18.920literally an hour which meant we didn't get ice cream very often which was was very sad
00:01:22.560But it was a wonderful experience. I did 4-H and FFA. As a youngster, I wanted to be a veterinarian because that's what my mom, who was an amazing person, had always wanted to be. So I learned from a very young age sort of the value of self-reliance, but even more than that value of self-reliance, the value of relying ultimately on Jesus.
00:01:44.660And that's who is our author and perfecter. Our salvation comes from him. And he was able to take a small town girl who didn't know any lawyers. And I've had a chance to do some some wonderful things, be able to represent wonderful clients. And I will always be grateful for that.
00:02:02.420And I've got to do that as a mom, Riley, which is super amazing.
00:03:34.440My family was a bit of or a lot of a mess.
00:03:38.680And so the idea of raising children was sort of horrifying.
00:03:41.420I wanted them to have something very different than I had had.
00:03:44.940And so it took God a long time to work on me to get me to a place where I was ready to
00:03:50.980accept that responsibility for this young life. And he's also taught me so much through that.
00:03:57.340I've been able to see how much he loves me as I see my children. And so it's just been an
00:04:05.720incredible blessing. So I would encourage everyone. The Bible says that God names every family.
00:04:12.820And so he will do this for your listeners as well.
00:04:16.540I love that because I do feel like there's maybe even pressure you put on yourself. Maybe it's not even coming from external sources, but you put pressure on yourself to get married young and have kids young. And yes, certainly that's the dream and the desire, but it requires finding a suitable partner who can make that life for you, who can walk that path with you, especially ultimately the path that leads to the Lord.
00:04:39.140I was talking to a young girl the other day, actually on a college campus, and she got up to the microphone and she was so nervous and she was like, you know, I feel like I've missed my time to get married and have kids.
00:05:49.780Visit shell.ca slash loyalty for full details.
00:05:53.820Sure, so it's a hugely important case for states that want to protect life.
00:05:59.540In the Supreme Court decision of Dobbs, the Supreme Court returned to the people, to the state, the ability to be able to protect life.
00:06:08.260But the Biden administration really took away that ability when they approved mail order abortion drugs.
00:06:14.940And what this means, Riley, is that a girl can get online or her spouse or partner who doesn't want a child can get online.
00:06:21.960And in a couple of minutes with an online form, have the abortion drug sent from out of state to a dorm room, to a home for a woman or girl to take all alone.
00:06:36.380The FDA has a black box warning on the abortion drug mitzvahprastone.
00:06:41.340It sends by its own FDA label one in 25 women to the emergency room.
00:06:48.300And these drugs are flooding into pro-life states.
00:06:51.960In Louisiana, which is very protective of life, there are about a thousand abortions every month from these illegal drugs coming in from New York and California.0.99
00:07:03.180What's kind of best case scenario when a woman takes these mail to order abortion pills?0.97
00:07:11.740Sure. So it really depends on the individual circumstances of her pregnancy, Riley.
00:07:16.920So the FDA drug is only approved up until 10 weeks gestation.
00:07:23.360But as we all know from stories online, there are two cases in Louisiana where women were about 20 weeks.
00:07:29.500It's extremely dangerous to take the abortion drug at 20 weeks gestation.
00:08:08.820The first drug, mifeprestone, stops the nutrition and the oxygen to the developing baby.
00:08:15.360So it essentially starves that child. And then the second drug you take forces contractions. It brings you into labor. And Alliance Defending Freedom has heartbreaking stories from women who have had abortions from using these abortion drugs.
00:08:32.440and they describe the pain they describe being in the bathroom or or one moment our client in
00:08:40.040the Louisiana case in the garage floor as she's bleeding as she's in labor all alone and then
00:08:47.440then some of them even talk about you know delivering that this baby and then having to
00:08:53.600decide what to do with that child that they they never expected they thought it would just be easy
00:08:58.740Planned Parenthood may have told them it might just be like a heavy period and then it will all go away and you can pretend this never happened.
00:09:07.360But but for so many women who take this drug, who think it's their only option, they really come to regret it, both for their physical symptoms as well as the spiritual and psychological.
00:09:18.440Yeah, one thing that I've learned so much over the past few years, honestly, it's probably one of the things that has opened my eyes the most to not even just the gender ideology movement or the abortion epidemic is how our language is being manipulated and how we've come up with all of these fantastic euphemisms that sound really great.
00:09:38.240Even, again, and I mentioned the gender ideology movement because I think there's a lot of similarities in how women are at threat, children are at threat, there's a war on reality.
00:09:48.140Of course, Planned Parenthood is behind both of these movements, but they hide behind phrases like tissue or a clump of cells or fetus, or they use the affirmation model, which sounds so great, and reproductive rights and healthcare freedom.
00:10:02.360Like, all of these things sound so good. But what you're saying, and certainly what I believe is that women and people, Americans are being lied to, right?
00:10:13.040That's exactly right. And, you know, they tell you, just come in, take the drug, and it will be like it never happened. But of course, that's not true. There was an unborn baby.
00:10:25.100In worst case scenario, women will suffer complications and not have sort of medical care that they need.
00:10:34.920And the science, Riley, it's really, I think, illuminating.
00:10:39.940If you look at a basic biology textbook, it tells us that life begins at conception.
00:10:46.160You know, we've got all these movements, you know, to save the turtles and to save the eggs and save the environment.
00:10:51.280And that's all well and fine, but the biological fact is that human children are just as much alive, they're just as much human when they're tiny as when they're grown.
00:11:01.900And of course, we don't discard someone simply because we can't see them when someone is older.
00:11:08.660So there's this sort of mentality that you can just ignore or get rid of a child because you can't see him or her yet.
00:11:18.040there was a law recently i believe it went into effect in january of this year in california where
00:11:24.180it's now illegal to declaw a cat because it's deemed inhumane and they can't consent to the
00:11:30.080declawing procedure and it just makes you scratch your head you know how in the world can you
00:11:35.820see it so clearly here whether whether you agree or disagree again on what's happening to cats and
00:11:42.200being declawed and the purpose behind that but not when it comes to human life or six seven eight
00:11:47.740nine-year-old children ultimately sterilizing themselves and cutting off healthy functioning
00:11:52.800body parts. That's not inhumane, but declawing a cat is. So there's so much hypocrisy surrounding
00:12:00.300what is deemed to be righteous and good and virtuous and moral. Where are these drugs
00:12:06.520manufactured? You mentioned they're being sent across states, but are they manufactured in the
00:12:10.940U.S. or is this happening overseas? Many of them are. That's sort of the trouble with the Biden
00:12:16.820Administration's action in 2023. What it approved was FDA approved drugs sent from two manufacturers
00:12:25.340at that time, GenBioPro and Danco. Again, FDA approved, sent without any health sort of guidance
00:12:33.780to young women to take all alone. And that's just heartbreaking for so many reasons. And
00:12:42.420And the idea that this is sort of what we want, that it's sort of abortion access at all costs, really belies the fact that this is about health care at all.
00:12:55.240The goal was to make sure abortion was available everywhere.
00:12:58.240And the Biden administration didn't care that the data it relied on in taking away that that in-person visit, that protection for women, show that there would be more hospitalizations.
00:13:08.240there would be more women harmed if these were sent through the mail. And again, they didn't
00:13:13.300care. They wanted access. Um, so there could be more abortions. Yeah. You know, the, the motto of
00:13:19.260safe, legal and rare has certainly changed. Uh, I saw it online the other day. I forget who it is.
00:13:24.820He's a member of Congress. He's a Democrat. He's the one with like the microbladed eyebrows. He
00:13:29.300like hardly speaks English. I'll, we'll put a picture of him on screen, uh, for those who are,
00:13:33.920listening. But he tweeted the other day, it wasn't safe, legal, and rare. He said safe,
00:13:39.480legal, and accessible. They don't really care if it's safe. They don't really care if it's legal.
00:13:44.320And they made it very clear. They don't want it to be rare anymore. They want it to be accessible
00:13:49.860for it to be prevalent. It's a pretty terrifying thought. What about in terms of doctors? Have you
00:13:58.480seen any cases of healthcare professionals who don't want to be affiliated with these medical
00:14:05.420abortions? And have there been any recourse for them? And I guess, what do these protections look
00:14:10.820like for doctors who don't want to facilitate an abortion? Absolutely. So there's actually a very
00:14:18.180small percentage of OBGYNs that actually perform abortions. And that makes a lot of sense. Most of0.98
00:14:24.200these doctors went into the field precisely so that they could help a woman and a child.
00:14:29.080They see themselves as having two patients, both the mother and the baby, and they'll do everything
00:14:34.120they can to take care of both of those patients. So after the first version of this case, the Biden
00:14:40.360administration actually reversed course and said, oh, wait a minute. You know, there's nothing to
00:14:45.220see here because pro-life doctors have robust conscience protections. That was their way of
00:14:51.180sort of getting out of the administrative, dangerous situation they created for women1.00
00:14:58.920So doctors do have conscience protections.
00:15:02.600The problem is, though, Riley, that when you have a woman who's hemorrhaging, she might
00:15:07.800be on the operating table, and a pro-life doctor is going to take care of her, regardless
00:15:12.800of the reason for why she's in that situation.1.00
00:15:16.260But it may have been because she took the abortion drug.
00:15:19.380And so you get in these situations where doctors feel like they're facilitating abortions and have their hands tied.
00:15:26.340Again, no doctor should be forced to do an abortion against their conscience.
00:15:30.660But the nature of these sorts of complications mean that doctors are sort of called upon to clean up the administration's mess in putting these women in harm's way.
00:15:47.480Are we waiting for some some rulings from the Supreme Court?
00:15:52.320Sure. So we're back before the Fifth Circuit.
00:15:55.120So every time a judge has looked at this case on the merits, they have found that the Biden administration taking away that protection for women, that that was unlawful, that it was unrational, unreason to do so because the data suggested there would be more harm to women.
00:16:12.800But the catch is, you know, who was able to bring that sort of lawsuit?
00:16:18.380Again, as I mentioned, this is sort of the second iteration of this case.
00:16:22.240And the first time around, the Biden administration said that no one could bring this case, that
00:16:27.220a woman who was harmed couldn't do it because the United States has sovereign immunity.
00:16:31.500The doctors couldn't do it because they have pro-life protections.
00:16:35.200And interestingly, one of the plaintiffs in this case is actually a young woman named
00:16:41.820and something that's lost in this idea that we just want women to have reproductive freedom0.72
00:16:47.000is first that many women don't choose abortion. They think it's the only option. And if they had
00:16:52.320more help, they would choose differently. And second, sometimes women don't choose at all.1.00
00:16:57.300That was the case for Rosalie. Her then boyfriend ordered drugs online and coerced her into taking1.00
00:17:03.660them. It killed the child she very much wanted. And so now she and Louisiana are suing the FDA
00:17:10.760And Louisiana sort of has the receipts, as folks like to say. It has shown that it has paid out Medicaid dollars for abortion drug complications when women come into a hospital needing care.
00:17:24.860So the question now before that Fifth Circuit is, one, do this, does Louisiana have standing? And two, was the Biden administration's action unlawful?
00:17:37.320We think both of those things are very much yes.
00:17:44.380And you mentioned the Supreme Court, Riley.
00:17:45.800So it went up to the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court said, we're going to let the status quo remain in effect.0.92
00:17:51.660We're going to allow these male-order abortions for the time being.
00:17:54.920But now we're back at the Fifth Circuit and we'll get to sort of relitigate that again and then probably head back up to the Supreme Court again.
00:18:05.080Is there pretty grave concern for pro-lifers if a Democrat is to be back in the Oval Office in
00:18:11.7802028? You know, I think there is, Riley. And you mentioned sort of just the lies and how this
00:18:18.080overlaps with gender ideology. And I think that's exactly right. There was an episode of Bill Maher's0.99
00:18:26.480show that I'd listened to a while back, but he was debating abortion with women. I think she was
00:18:31.000actually somewhat pro-choice but just not at later stages of pregnancy. But Bill Maher said
00:18:37.460something. He said, you know, life just isn't that precious. And I think that is the lie that we are
00:18:44.600fighting against. This idea that every child is not created in the very image of God. Abigail,
00:18:52.060just a second she is in the car yes you know go look i saw the check go check again i promise
00:19:01.660look in the back that is like ultimate mom mode right there and it's so funny like mom where is
00:19:14.860this moms have like a uncanny ability to find anything and everything it could be like the
00:19:20.860ketchup bottle in the fridge. My husband can't find it. I'm like, Louie, it's right there. It's1.00
00:19:25.320right there. Moms have this amazing ability to do just that. Yeah. So hopefully she will find1.00
00:19:32.880her Polly Pocket. But yes, this idea, Riley, that the life is not valuable. And I think that's what
00:19:42.040we see the Democratic Party promoting, this idea that you should shout your abortions or that they
00:19:47.920shouldn't be rare, rather than providing women with real help, with real encouragement, with
00:19:53.920resources, so that they can parent and have their baby and beyond. Now, there's been ongoing
00:20:00.500discussion about what's happening in our drinking water. Whether it's the pills that started really
00:20:08.400the process or the human remains that were flushed down the toilet, there's concern that
00:20:13.240humans are ingesting these things. What's the latest here? Do you have any insight? The most
00:20:20.700that I've learned on this is from, from amazing people like Kristen Hawkins. I've seen Isabel
00:20:24.340Brown talk about this. I saw EPA Lee Zeldin actually talk about this. So, so what's kind
00:20:30.400of the latest here? Yeah. So it's sort of horrifying when you think about it, that the
00:20:35.100abortion drug is being used so prevalently in America that it's actually in our drinking water
00:20:41.140in pretty high doses. And, you know, that leads to questions is, you know, why do we have fertility
00:20:47.700problems in America? Maybe that has something to do with this. There's also, you know, as you
00:20:54.100mentioned, the California law that prevents declawing, there's all these environmental laws
00:20:59.800that require studies to be done when you have any agency action that impacts a potential
00:21:06.600endangered species. Well, there's a good chance that all of these drugs in the water are doing
00:21:11.940that to various species, various aquatic species as well. So you have this situation where the FDA
00:21:19.360has approved a drug that is being used in such a sort of pervasive way in America today, that it's
00:21:27.100in concentrated amounts in our drinking water, which is, I have a colleague actually, who after
00:21:31.700he heard about this um he he won't drink he refuses to drink out of out of any um sort of
00:21:38.000water coming city water which makes a lot of sense when you think about those sorts of things
00:21:42.640um and then you think about the amount of portions that happen every single year you know it's it's
00:21:49.060not a a small number no no and then then when you think you mentioned human remains riley but it's
00:21:56.180It's sort of heartbreaking to think about one of the women that ADF has represented.
00:22:04.680And she talks about using the abortion drug and then having to make the choice when she saw this baby in her hands, whether to throw it away or flush it down the toilet.0.68
00:22:16.400And that's not a choice any mom should ever have to make.
00:22:22.240And it's, again, like life is valuable.
00:22:25.780It is beautiful. And what women like Elizabeth and so many of them want, surveys show that the vast majority of women that have abortions do so because they feel like there's no other option. And they say that if they would have had more support, either financially or emotionally and socially, that they would have changed their minds and chosen to parent or have that child. And that's what offers women real choice, not freely accessible abortion drugs.
00:22:51.900Yeah, again, these women are promised that they'll get their independence back, they'll get their life back, they'll be able to go out and have fun and get drinks with their friends, but instead they're left with regret and heartbreak and shame and guilt, which are horrible feelings, and of course the Bible tells us that all of those things do not come from the Lord.
00:23:12.080For any listeners who are concerned about these topics, what are some practical steps or maybe principles that should guide their advocacy, whether it's legal or cultural or, I guess, in their own communities?
00:23:28.240Sure. So I'd encourage you just to get invested. Volunteer at a local pregnancy care center.
00:23:33.940These individuals are making real change in real lives.
00:23:37.080lives. I'd also encourage folks to start to be aware of surrogacy agreements. We are seeing more
00:23:44.300of these and the terms of those agreements are just horrifying. NPR has a sample agreement up
00:23:51.680online and it allows the intended parents to do things like force the woman to repay all of the
00:24:00.360costs from in vitro fertilization, all the surrogacy arrangements. If she refuses to have
00:24:07.040an abortion for any reason that the parents might choose. So all of these sorts of issues are
00:24:13.680cropping up and they all stem, as you said, from this same idea that every woman and child
00:24:18.940is not created in the very image of God and worthy of protection, whether it's a seven or
00:24:25.220eight-year-old girl that's being told she's a boy or a baby girl in her mother's womb.
00:24:30.520All of them deserve protection and advocate, advocate for them, advocate for the value of life
00:25:03.740And so we have these amazing promises. We are not alone as we advocate. We have God the Father to help us through the Holy Spirit. And we also have his promise that though there are bad things in the world, he has won the victory, not only in the far away heaven sense, but also in the real world today.
00:25:24.760So take heart and do something. Do something. Volunteer at your pregnancy care center. Advocate for life. Tell people that life matters.
00:25:33.740it's time to talk about those scary words that no one wants to hear. And certainly no one wants
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00:26:38.960from the Riley Gaines Show sent you. It's got to be hard with obviously having three kids and your
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