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00:00:34.600What does the Pope, vultures in the podcast sphere, and aliens all have in common?
00:00:39.700All things we're talking about on today's episode of The Riley Gaines Show with Michael Knowles.
00:00:45.480Well, Michael, thank you for joining The Riley Gaines Show.
00:00:48.740I want to talk about some of the culture stuff in a minute and the shifts that we are seeing there.
00:00:52.520But actually, one of the biggest shifts that we're seeing right now is happening in religion.
00:00:58.220There's study after study pertaining to really the general public as a whole.
00:01:02.840But I think most specifically and most importantly, a rise in younger people, my generation, Gen Z, attending church, especially young men.
00:01:12.260Can you talk about this, returning to faith, but I think even more specifically, kind of the convert to Catholicism?
00:01:19.480Yes, the Catholics have really been great beneficiaries of this return to the faith.
00:01:25.120I think adult conversions in the U.S., specifically to Catholicism, are up 38% year over year this year.
00:01:31.720And that's after last year, which saw similar numbers increase.
00:01:36.480The reason that there's a return to religion generally is because, one, the fall away from religion marked by the new atheism was totally fake.
00:01:47.360It was a response to 9-11 when Muslims committed terror attacks, and the so-called new atheists of Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens, Daniel Dennett, they pulled a little slate of hand.0.89
00:02:02.380They said that the problems that are evident in Islam are therefore representative of all religion, and they really used it as a way to attack Christianity, which is ironic, because I don't think Christians flew planes into airplanes, into buildings, rather.0.75
00:02:14.300So it was always kind of fake. Christopher Hitchens wrote this famous book, God is Not Great. I remember reading that book as a boy, and it occurred to me that he doesn't even argue that God is not great. It's not really an argument against God, or it's an argument, I don't know, of an assemblage of Reddit-tier atheist complaints about religious people. So he didn't...
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00:03:06.300prove his thesis. He didn't really even argue his thesis. And the fact is, man is a religious
00:03:12.720being. We have a God-shaped hole in our heart. There is a reason that all societies, for all
00:03:18.020of history everywhere, have grappled with religious questions. You're not going to erase
00:03:22.100that with some pithy slogan uttered by Christopher Hitchens on a cable news hit. But that's why
00:03:26.880people just realized, okay, this atheist stuff is just dumb. So, okay, why Catholicism? This0.99
00:03:33.200This pertains to what we were just talking about earlier on transgenderism, because the transgender claim really boiled down, basically, is that my body has nothing to do with who I really am.
00:03:47.600So you can have beautiful Riley Gaines there, nice long hair, all sorts of feminine features.
00:03:53.140But contrary to all physical appearance, she might really be a boy.
00:04:25.580But we are weirdly a combination of these two things.
00:04:28.560So many religious traditions, especially some of the more evangelical or low church Protestant traditions, they get that God exists.
00:04:37.460They get that Jesus is who he says he is.
00:04:39.480They get that we have to live our life in community and be aware of God and read our Bible and all the rest.
00:04:45.040But one thing that they lack, which the more mainline Protestant churches have to some degree, though they've declined for other reasons, that Eastern Orthodoxy has and that especially Catholicism has, is a recognition that we are physical beings.
00:04:59.160And being physical beings, we need to do something with our bodies.
00:05:03.880So a liturgical tradition, the mass where you get up and you kneel down and you pray and you put your hands together,
00:05:10.580that rather than being vain or trivial, that simply acknowledges a part of our nature,
00:05:16.000which is that we are bodies moving in time and space.
00:05:18.680And then at the extreme of that, you have sacramental theology, which, again, lots of Protestant traditions have,
00:05:25.400but the Catholics really, really emphasize.
00:05:27.280And it's the idea that, well, to use the example of the Blessed Sacrament, that there is this host, which, when it is consecrated by the priest, becomes the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus, contrary to appearances, in most cases, because there actually are Eucharistic miracles.
00:05:44.160But in most cases, it just looks like a host.
00:05:46.440But Christians believe, Catholics believe, at least, that this is the real body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ.0.87
00:05:52.260And this goes all the way back to the early church.0.90
00:05:54.580Justin Martyr is writing about this in the First Apology.
00:05:56.560Really, all the church fathers and then later the doctors of the church are writing about this, and they say this is really confusing to people who are not Christian, because they think it's just bread and you eat it as a kind of symbol.
00:06:13.280You know, I think a lot of people would say, look, if I think it's a symbol or I think it's really Christ or, you know, in the end, it doesn't really matter.
00:06:22.080I think the reason that young people, especially right now, think it does matter is because human beings, being physical and immaterial, need a regular encounter where the two meet.
00:06:37.080A sacrament says there is this place in the world where the divine is encountering the terrestrial, where the metaphysical is encountering the physical.
00:06:46.820And there's actually a union of those two things.
00:06:48.660And the reason why human beings long for that, I mean, obviously, I think that's real for all sorts of reasons coming from scripture and the history of Christianity.
00:06:56.800But the reason that human beings naturally long for that is because we're kind of like that, too.
00:07:02.020You know, what the modern materialists, secularists describe as the tragic nature of humanity, the fact that we're born and we can perceive universals and we know that there's justice and we long for eternal life, but we know we're going to die.
00:07:16.280they view as the real tragedy of humanity, this kind of joke played upon us.
00:07:23.220This is, in fact, what our Lord is addressing.
00:07:24.820He says, if you believe in me, you can have eternal life.
00:07:28.200So getting the body back into it is so important.
00:07:31.340It's not just the transgenderists who need this thing.
00:07:35.160We all live in a way that is mediated much of the time by virtual reality.
00:07:40.980You and I are speaking right now through a screen because,
00:07:44.100Because, actually, we do live pretty close to each other, but, you know, people are on the road, people are traveling, so we're meeting that way.
00:07:49.760And I get a fair bit of Riley when I'm looking through the screen, but I'm not getting the full Riley.
00:07:54.460You know, we're not sitting down having a meal or something like that.
00:07:56.920And we live our lives this way, with our families, with our coworkers.
00:08:01.720People have their meetings on computers now.
00:08:03.960In fact, in many cases, we view our social media avatars, our Instagram account, our Twitter account, as our real identity.
00:08:11.280But, of course, that's missing out on so much of us.
00:08:13.620And the final piece of this, I think, as to why this is all happening now is because we've just emerged from COVID five years ago in which we took this to an extreme.
00:08:23.560We were told you actually don't need any physical existence.
00:08:43.020That is contrary to the way that we are, because I still I still do have blood pumping through my veins and I was born at a particular date.
00:08:49.940I'm going to die at a particular date. I don't know when it is.
00:08:52.280But but the physical temporal world is really a part of who we are.
00:08:56.780And I think a religious traditions that speak to that particularly are going to grow, particularly as people come out of this confusion.
00:09:06.640Yeah, it's interesting talking about the virtual aspect of it all. Critical thinking is so low and so such a rare trait in today's world. It's honestly not really even taught. What role do you think AI plays in that? Do you think young people are seeking out artificial intelligence to answer these questions as well?
00:09:30.300Again, I just think the critical thinking aspect, it honestly, it's scary to me.
00:09:36.600My little sister, she's still in high school.
00:09:48.200I'm scared for her to continue on into college and even post-college, her career, whatever
00:09:53.020that may be, because she never really has to apply herself.
00:09:57.440Do you think AI has, like, a role or a play in answering some of those existential questions young kids may have?
00:10:04.440Very diplomatically put, Riley, because it's one of the great drivers of what could be, gosh, I don't know, the loss of our very humanity.
00:10:15.240Not to sound too hyperbolic about it, but people are treating AI as if it is God.
00:10:21.620It's kind of annoying even in, like, little Twitter debates and things when people say, Grok, is this true?
00:10:25.920I blocked Grok on my X account. I blocked Grok. I'm so sick of the people or that bot. I don't even fully understand AI, how it's able to do what it does in a matter of seconds. I blocked it. I'm so sick of seeing that in my replies.
00:10:41.240Yes, yes, because there is a limited place for it. You say someone cites a study and you say, Grock, is this what the study says? And maybe much of the time Grock will give you an answer on no, actually, it has these numbers in this place. But whenever you get to a question of real substance, Grock is not going to be helpful.
00:10:59.880You know, if you say, hey, Grok, should people be allowed to have abortions?
00:11:04.020You are bringing in so many philosophical and anthropological premises that are much disputed in society and always have been that Grok loses its authority unless Grok really is God, which it's not.0.83
00:11:20.220Grok is not even a human intelligence.
00:11:21.660And so the Bible talks about this.0.99
00:11:24.220You know, the Bible warns against worshiping dumb idols, lest we become like them.0.98
00:11:59.380But then they've been deprived of generating the skills that allow us to flourish.
00:12:06.380These days, you cannot assign a paper in class because there's no reason to believe that
00:12:13.000anyone's actually going to write the paper.
00:12:14.340They might have Grock write the paper for them.
00:12:15.900Maybe they'll gussy it up a little bit.
00:12:17.200So you kind of have to go back to the blue book of in-person writing.
00:12:19.820But why do your teachers assign you a paper in the first place? The teachers assign you a paper so that you will learn how to write, because to write well is to think clearly, which is why it's so hard, as David McCullough points out.
00:12:31.300If you graduate from middle school, much less high school, much less a university or a very prestigious university, without the ability to write, you cannot properly think.
00:13:11.400Hunter Biden's super smart. He's very intelligent and well-educated, but he never mastered his will, so he's a slave. He's a crackhead who goes and visits hookers, right? So there's the willing part, and then that is predicated on knowledge. If you're ignorant, you can't be free either. This is why we don't let little children vote. The Democrats are trying to let little children vote, but generally we shouldn't.0.84
00:13:30.820So to be a free person, you have to know things and you have to exercise your intelligence and you have to discipline your will.
00:13:38.060And unfortunately, AI has the potential to deprive you of both of those things because you never develop the habits of discipline that allow you to live a flourishing life and to make sense of your freedom.
00:13:49.280You never have to learn anything at all because you can just say, hey, Grok, is this true?0.79
00:13:52.460And so it's a major, major threat.1.00
00:13:55.580And the conclusion of it will be people who are as dumb as the idol that they worship.1.00
00:14:00.400Yeah, it's very true. And yeah, a lot of the online discourse that you see, even from, I mean, let's call them MAGA influencers, you can always tell when they're using Grok or ChadGPT, there's that like hyphen in there.0.99
00:15:07.960And you see it all throughout social media, and people are probably being paid to post it, and they're at least getting their payouts on X, for example.
00:15:14.100And it just it's you just have to ask yourself, hold on, what is this for? Twitter, as I understand it, is for owning the libs. That's its purpose. That is its T loss of Twitter. And then after that, it's keeping up with the news or whatever, interacting with people.
00:15:31.720But now you're just getting slop that is being written by someone else.
00:15:36.720And when you respond to it, you are asking Grok to write slop for you.
00:16:58.740First of all, as long as you don't have armies between the emperor and the papacy literally warring against each other in, like, northern Italy, we are not even close to peak politicized papacy, okay?
00:17:10.220I don't know if you guys are familiar with the Middle Ages, but you actually had popes and emperors going to war with each other.
00:17:16.860And the reason is there's always a tension between the temporal power and the spiritual authority.
00:17:21.580This goes back to the earliest days of the church, and you see it really come out to the fore at the end of the 5th century.
00:17:28.320Pope Gelasius I, in 494, writes a letter to the Byzantine emperor Anastasius.
00:17:34.640And in the letter, he says, look, I'm going to say some stuff about politics sometimes.
00:17:41.180You have power over the political realm.
00:17:45.540You know, you've got to pass laws and enforce laws and arrest criminals and regulate the economy and all the rest.
00:17:49.640But I have an authority as well that I am tasked with to care for the spiritual needs of our people.
00:17:55.740And you can never totally divorce those, in part because the pope is a shepherd.
00:18:02.580He leads a flock that lives in politics in time and space.
00:18:06.460And because the emperor has to have recourse to religion in order to pass laws and enforce laws, all of which require recourse to the moral law and ultimately spiritual authority.
00:18:15.760So there's going to be a little tension there.
00:18:45.300He's reserved his criticisms to be pretty precise.
00:18:47.820He hasn't really named Trump by name in those criticisms.
00:18:50.760On immigration, the pope is not for open borders.
00:18:53.680He gave a speech just last year in which he said nations obviously should have borders.
00:18:57.780Nobody can seriously be for totally open borders.
00:19:00.220So even there, the pope's view is relatively moderate.
00:19:03.720And then on almost all of the other issues, the pope, this pope and really all popes, is ironically to the right of like every American politician, including the diehard right wing conservative people.
00:19:17.980The pope thinks that abortion is wrong.
00:19:20.740always the pope thinks all popes do just by virtue of the office and by virtue of being catholic
00:19:25.740the pope thinks that marriage is between a man and a woman and that same-sex marriage is totally0.51
00:19:29.800ridiculous the pope opposes contraception the pope obviously opposes transgenderism the pope
00:19:35.160does not believe that you can divorce the political order from the moral order the pope you know0.98
00:19:39.820like basically any way you slice it the pope is more right wing and the reason for that
00:20:13.380He's an American citizen who's voted in elections
00:20:15.440until very, very recently. He was just elected Pope. And the Pope is a Republican. He's a
00:20:20.340registered Republican. So the idea that he's a hippie or a communist or even a centered Democrat
00:20:27.340is absurd and demonstrably false. We have our first registered Republican Pope. Let's take
00:20:34.920the win. Let's take the W, guys. I'm into it. Yeah. Now, on all of those issues that you just
00:20:40.940mentioned, our former president was on the other side of them, yet he claims to be a Catholic.
00:20:48.120And meanwhile, our former president, who, you know, Biden made such a show about how Catholic
00:20:54.020he was. He was imprisoning Catholic grannies for opposing abortion. He was sending in jackbooted0.95
00:21:02.180thugs to spy on Catholic churches. When he was vice president in the Obama administration,
00:21:07.380They were suing nuns because the nuns didn't want to pay for abortions.
00:21:13.140You know, we were in such a sorry state.0.84
00:21:16.980And now I think what you're seeing, especially with those young converts we were talking about at the top of the show,
00:21:22.400is you are seeing that the young people who are entering the church across religious traditions and especially with Catholicism,
00:21:29.480they are not entering for some boomer coded lib worldly kind of religion.
00:21:35.660they want they want the real stuff you know they don't want birkenstocks and acoustic guitars
00:21:40.860they want the the real heavy stuff uh and i think what you're going to see is that
00:21:46.820democrat biden-esque kind of religion that's going to fall by the wayside because the best
00:21:54.080thing that you could say about it is that it's lukewarm and we know what our lord says about
00:21:57.980about that which is lukewarm you could also say that it's downright evil because they're supporting
00:22:02.500the mutilation of children, the slaughter of babies, the imprisonment of nuns.
00:22:07.560But most charitably, you'd say it's lukewarm.0.82
00:22:09.780The young converts, they don't want lukewarm religion.
00:22:12.120They can get lukewarm, they can get the world any day of the week.
00:22:15.060The reason that they're going to a different place on Sunday is to be elevated up to heaven.
00:22:21.100Okay, I want to tell you guys about something I actually think is really worth your time,
00:22:24.980especially if you have kids, or honestly, if you just appreciate a story that makes you think a little bit deeper.
00:22:30.260there is a new film out right now called Animal Farm. Of course, this is an animated adaptation
00:22:35.740of the classic George Orwell story. Now, I know a lot of you probably read Animal Farm in school.
00:22:42.060I remember reading it my freshman year of high school in Coach Moran's class. He was the history
00:22:47.120teacher who coached the soccer team. But this version, it brings it to life, that story. It
00:22:51.420brings it to life in a way that's actually engaging. I actually found it to be pretty funny.
00:22:55.640And of course, the storyline itself is eye opening. What I like about this film, it wasn't just entertainment, it actually leaves you thinking, it sparks conversations, it's something that you could watch with your kids, especially if you have older kids. And it's something that you can actually talk about afterwards. I love this film, it was brought by Angel Studios, of course, they have been fantastic across the board.
00:23:17.640So it's one of those projects that people who genuinely cared enough about it to make it happen, which I respect.
00:23:24.720Animal Farm, it is in theaters now. Tickets are still available.
00:23:28.040You can go grab yours at angel.com slash RG and let me know what you think after you watch it.
00:23:36.220Congressman Brandon Gill, he just had a fantastic line of questioning earlier this week.
00:23:42.020We have a clip. Let's play it really quick.
00:23:43.480You're an advocate for abortion, for abortion policy.
00:23:47.220What's your favorite type of abortion?
00:23:50.240I am an advocate for patients having access to the full realm of reproductive health care.
00:23:55.840But do you have a preferred method of abortion that you like?
00:26:57.640That's the that's the inescapable conclusion that you have to get to. And it's why when the Democrats shifted away from their previously also incoherent stance, which was the Hillary Clinton stance, I want abortion to be safe, legal and rare. Hillary Clinton is there admitting that abortion is wrong and she's incoherently saying we should have it anyway.
00:27:15.520But at least she was acknowledging the reality.0.99
00:27:19.620They shifted 10 years ago to shout your abortion, be proud of your abortion, have parades for your abortions, abortion on demand at any moment.
00:27:27.060And so when they shifted away from that, it gave license to any normal person to say, OK, well, what's your favorite kind?
00:27:34.820What is it that you like about abortion?
00:27:37.040And they can't really answer that because it's wrong and it's manifestly wrong.
00:27:44.020I can't believe really that pro-lifers haven't asked that before, but I want to hear this from every pro-lifer out there on the street, every Republican politician.
00:27:52.440Ask the people, okay, you like abortion. I don't like abortion. I don't look, I guess you like chocolate. I like vanilla.
00:27:58.500You like abortion. I don't like abortion. So what's your favorite kind?
00:28:02.240The very fact that they can't answer tells you everything you have to know about the issue.
00:28:05.640Yeah, it's, I would be curious if you approach your standard leftist who claims to be pro-choice in the streets, if you ask them this, if they would feel any shame, because I think oftentimes, at least in the very far, far left fringe, the kind that we see online, the people who celebrate Charlie Kirk's death, the people who are in the streets of San Francisco at these pride events, honestly, I don't even feel like they would have shame in answering.
00:28:33.280So to see this interaction where it kind of took her back and she didn't really know how to answer, I certainly think is a step in the right direction and just giving all of us the transparency of understanding how to better communicate this.
00:28:47.600I think especially going into 2026 and 2028, where abortion has historically been an issue that conservatives, they lose on or quite simply, they just don't want to touch for fear of being on the wrong side of the issue, at least politically.
00:29:01.100So, masterclass. President Trump, of course, he's on his second term. It is underway. Are you fearful of the MAGA movement? What's that going to look like when President Trump doesn't run the third time? Maybe he does. He trolls all the time about it.
00:29:19.280But what does the MAGA movement look like post-Trump?
00:29:22.960Like, do you think this is bigger than just one person?
00:29:46.780There's a little risk of that because of the Iran war.0.60
00:29:49.840The Iran war could spiral out of control.
00:29:52.500This was one of the arguments against the strikes on Iran is it could have cascading effects that overwhelm what is an incredible legacy thus far from President Trump.
00:30:00.600So there's some risk, but I would still put my money on Trump's the kingmaker.
00:30:04.480So he is MAGA and he'll he'll pick who the nominee is.
00:30:24.680We were appealing to the same audience.
00:30:27.240The more you invade against the left and try to help Republicans win, the more clicks you got, the more views you got.
00:30:34.560And obviously for the politicians, the more likely they were to be elected.
00:30:36.920Now that Republicans are entirely in power, it's very difficult to get views and clicks when you're the one defending the government, because any government is going to be disappointing. It can't do everything. And so there, I think you started to see the interests diverge. There were some real ideological disagreements, notably over the Iran war, but they were more pronounced in the podcast class than they were among ordinary voters.
00:30:59.880So there, I think you saw that that system break apart even more. I'm not that concerned about the right wing civil war, because I think it's mostly a phenomenon of podcasters who have their own incentives. But I am concerned.
00:31:12.960You're talking about those incentives. You mean like monetary gain?
00:31:18.020Yeah, not just monetary gain. I mean, I don't mean I don't mean to be casting too many aspersions of cynicism, but just attention.
00:31:25.080You know, a broadcaster thrives on attention. He has to get views and clicks and you get money as a result of that, too.
00:31:32.960But that's what he does. A politician has to go get votes. A podcaster has to go get clicks.
00:31:38.260And so when the podcaster's nominal party, at least, is in power, it's not very exciting to say, hey, guys, everything is going really well.
00:31:49.340Hey, look what the government just did. Don't you guys love the government? That doesn't really appeal.
00:31:54.240And so there is an incentive, especially as the podcaster, the new media organization has frayed from networks.
00:32:03.460You used to have cable networks like Fox. Then you would have new media networks like the Daily Wire.
00:32:08.220We're kind of the last one, or we're one of the last ones,
00:32:11.040because increasingly the new media have just become independent creators.
00:32:15.520Now, this creates some other problems, because when you have a network,
00:32:18.900the network hosts have to get along, they have to see each other more frequently,
00:32:24.000When you have independent creators, all of a sudden it's a war of all against all.
00:32:27.480So every single person is your competition, and that creates incentives.
00:32:31.820Some people resist them, but it does create incentives for more sensational kind of commentary,
00:32:36.540a more radical kind of commentary, gossip, detraction, and most importantly, opposition.
00:32:44.340The media always thrive when they're in opposition.
00:32:47.020So, you know, basically the minute Trump won, that created a divergence.
00:32:50.560This was all compounded by the assassination of Charlie,
00:32:53.280because Charlie, and I have an identical view of how to interact in politics that Charlie did,
00:32:58.860but it's an unpopular view, which is you need to keep the coalition together.
00:33:03.480Charlie was very, very good at bringing in people, many of whom hate each other, to get along and play nice and keep their eye on the prize.
00:33:09.940And he kept very toxic elements out, and he would sometimes shuffle the deck.
00:33:15.220I mean, that was his real guiding action.
00:33:18.780When he was assassinated by the left, some people tried to cope and say, well, you know, actually, we're going to be stronger than ever.
00:33:25.820But I never really thought that would happen because, very sadly, assassinations work.
00:33:31.280That's why people keep doing them, you know.
00:33:32.740And so his loss has been immensely felt. Now, that said, we've talked about the podcast class. What about the actual political coalition? Rank and file voters who might show up at the midterms, might not, might support J.D. Vance or whoever the nominee is in 2028.
00:33:48.460Right. My chief concern there, my maybe my sole concern is the war in Iran, because the war in Iran, it's sort of over right now, weirdly within Trump's time scale, you know, within six weeks.
00:34:01.800But we're in this tenuous ceasefire and the Strait of Hormuz remains closed because there's a blockade and then President Trump's double reverse UNO card blockade.
00:34:09.240So now you have a double blockade every day that goes by that 20 percent of the world's oil is not getting through there.
00:34:15.020not to mention LNG, not to mention petrochemicals, not to mention fertilizer,
00:34:18.880every day that goes by is going to cause consequences that will be paid by the global economy.0.92
00:34:25.400So if this continues, and I think the Iranian regime is pretty durable, you know,0.98
00:34:29.800give the devils their due, they're pretty good at holding on to power.1.00
00:34:33.380Every day that goes by is increasing the odds of a global recession,
00:34:36.620is already now, we're finally starting to see the cost of oil really start to go up well over $100 a barrel.
00:34:41.840That is going to create economic and political pain that voters will be aware of at the ballot box and that could throw all of the fraying disagreements in the actual political coalition, could really burst them into light.
00:35:00.420That's what we saw happen exactly at the end of the Bush administration because of the Iraq war.
00:35:04.600Nobody was talking about social security reform.
00:35:06.560Nobody was talking about education reform.
00:35:09.960And so I fear, look, Trump has a very good record on foreign policy. If I'm going to trust anyone on it, I'll trust him. But I do fear, with an amazing record on immigration, on pro-life, obviously on the judges, on the economy, he's got an astounding record on all of it.
00:35:24.920if the iran war really goes south it it could overwhelm everything you know so that i mean
00:35:32.480obviously the white house wants to get out of this there's no question about it they don't
00:35:36.240want to be in in iran for 10 years uh but how that is done is is easy is easier said than actually
00:35:43.120done look i'm i'm very self-aware and i understand what i feel qualified to speak on and what i don't
00:35:50.480But I will say, in trying to really understand what was happening in Iran, when those first initial strikes, your breakdown and analysis is the only one I watched in full to really help me understand.
00:36:02.620So I feel like a glimpse of that again.
00:36:06.680No, I'm so serious, too. Totally agree.
00:36:10.820Talking about Charlie Kirk, you should an event in Idaho with Turning Point this week looked like a fantastic crowd, fantastic reception.
00:36:18.200I want to ask you about Erica, kind of more specifically the treatment that she's received.
00:36:24.980There's been so much online commentary or some kind of grief policing, if you will,
00:36:30.740about how Erica Kirk has handled her public role and her mourning and her grieving of her late
00:36:37.320husband now. What's your take on how she's been treated by, I mean, really conservatives or those
00:36:43.600who hide under the cloak of conservatism and critics alike?0.97
00:36:47.240She can do nothing right. If she smiles, that's wrong. She should be frowning. If she frowns, she needs to lighten up and smile more. If she wears white, it's too happy. If she wears black, it's too angry. If she speaks out publicly, she's out of her place. If she doesn't speak out, where is she? She needs to step up into her role. There's nothing that she can do that will satisfy some people.0.71
00:37:07.520So I adore Erica Kirk. I think she's wonderful. Obviously, good enough for Charlie, good enough for me. And she's dealing with something that is the stuff of nightmares for virtually anybody. And on top of that, it's very much in the public square.
00:37:22.800And on top of that, because her husband was the most important political activist of his generation, she, whether she wanted it or not, is thrust into this political role.
00:37:33.660And so the knives come out, not just from the left to the right, all of the leftists celebrating, many of the leftists celebrating the murder of her husband.
00:37:41.520But then all the internal infighting and positioning and faction making that you see on the right, also treating her terribly unfairly the whole time.
00:37:51.160compounded by the issue that we were just talking about which is that the the political media
00:37:57.340increasingly divorced from real hardcore politics uh thrives on sensationalism detraction gossip0.97
00:38:03.220slander you know radicalism all the rest so so all of a sudden this grieving widow becomes
00:38:09.060good content you know which i find totally uh despicable and i i refuse to engage in it even
00:38:16.220the other night there was this clip people were picking apart erica who was at the white house
00:38:20.840correspondence dinner and she uh she was crying when the when the shots rang out i said yeah you
00:38:28.000think so this woman is suffering from from very severe trauma and it's happened again and you
00:38:32.860know she's got this fear that her kids could could be orphaned uh and people even picking that apart
00:38:37.400i didn't i you know i i understand prudential judgments vary but i i wouldn't even play the
00:38:43.020clip on the show i just found it to be really awful and so the things that we ought to do
00:38:47.320in my view are, rather than, you know, directly answering whatever, any charge of anybody on
00:38:55.640Twitter or elsewhere, I think what we ought to do is, one, pray for Erica and the family in TPUSA.
00:39:01.140Support her. You know, make clear this is a wonderful woman who is showing an immense
00:39:05.160amount of grace under a lot of fire, literal fire and rhetorical fire. Do what we can to support
00:39:10.900TPUSA in the mission. I was very honored that Erica invited me and Matt to go out and do that
00:39:16.240event the other night it was a great event uh off of some of the social media sites there were
00:39:22.300i don't know 1500 or whatever the the stadium could pack thousand people were turned away at
00:39:28.020the door they couldn't make it in and these were great people who really wanted to do something
00:39:31.940positive for the country and it it reaffirmed my long-held belief that there is a difference between
00:39:38.740twitter and real life i was worried that that difference was collapsing for a while but i think
00:39:43.180it's real um and and it's you know charlie was so so good at this that he he understood that we
00:39:50.500have to be wise as serpents and innocent as doves that uh you know prudence is the chief political
00:39:56.340virtue and uh so you know it's very important not to give bad actors what they want you know when
00:40:05.720you when you i mean i even saw it when i was at tposa all of these pseudonymous twitter accounts
00:40:10.040that are frankly probably funded by foreign powers all coming in attacking eric and tpsa
00:40:14.880see you don't necessarily have to engage with all of that you know state the truth plainly
00:40:20.700and then most importantly let's support her and let's support tpsa let's do our very best to
00:40:26.980carry on charlie's legacy knowing nobody can speak for him you know he's he's gone to his
00:40:31.320eternal reward and we have to carry on but let's let's actually focus on what we're all trying to
00:40:36.340do, you know, and actually build something together rather than get in the fray with
00:40:40.380people who are just tearing things down.
00:43:14.620And I just, I felt that we were in this position where people were, everybody was making content and getting views and clicks and money off of something that's very bad.
00:43:26.860And, you know, when you breathe oxygen into these sorts of things, especially, I'll give you an example.
00:43:34.260When you're having a political debate over abortion, someone says he wants abortion, someone says he doesn't want abortion.
00:43:40.140There is something substantive to debate there.