Navigating The Biden⧸Harris Title IX Era
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Summary
On today's episode of the Gains For Girls Podcast, we are joined by Kimberly Herman, Executive Director of the Southeast Regional Legal Foundation, a pro bono organization dedicated to defending the rights of Americans on Title IX.
Transcript
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hello everybody welcome back to the gains for girls podcast uh as always thank you for tuning
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in thank you for listening uh be sure to check us out at outkick.com anywhere where you get
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your podcasts but at outkick.com you can follow all things gains for girls and make sure you never
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miss an episode uh on today's episode we are talking to kim herman uh she is the executive
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director at southeastern legal foundation uh and we have partnered and when i say we i mean the
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riley gains center at the leadership institute this is my center that was developed about a year ago
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that has done pivotal work and engaging and mobilizing and training up young conservative
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leaders uh really important stuff that that we're doing over at the rally gain center you can check
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that out at rally gain center.org but we have partnered with southeastern legal to create a
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title nine training uh i had people approaching me all the time you know i think i know what title
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nine is i i know it allows for girls to be able to compete equally in sports um but that's that's
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kind of my extent on you know my extent of the knowledge i have on this issue and so i was
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thinking you know how can we broaden the amount of people who understand the severity of what we are
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seeing pushed by the biden harris administration and the democratic party uh and so we like i said
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partnered with them this training is it is up it is live you can check it out at the rally gains
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center.org it is incredibly comprehensive uh it goes into all things title nine and the harm that's
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being done that has effectively already been done uh it talks about the free speech implications it
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talks about due process which which adversely affects men in a topic that we tend to forget to talk about
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it talks about um of course what's happening in sports but also in academics how women are losing out
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on academic scholarships it talks about what's going on in bathrooms and locker rooms and changing
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spaces and dorm rooms and sororities all these places where people uh forget to to think about when
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thinking about title nine uh so again check out the training take the training uh it's not super long
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but again it's it's very important share the training uh and be sure to share this episode uh with
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kimberly herman well kim thank you so much for joining the gains for girls podcast uh super excited
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to talk with you about all things title nine uh we have had several people on this show i mean my whole
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platform really is built around uh protecting women's sports really i mean protecting women protecting
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common sense insanity uh but we've had attorney generals on to talk about it we have had
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um other legal representatives but but again this is really important and i think these are things
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that everyday people everyday moms everyday dads this is what they need to hear this is what they
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need to understand the progressive policies that are being put in place by the people in the white
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house now and uh if uh the same ticket or a harris waltz ticket were to win in november uh certainly
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what they could continue to expect and so uh very briefly i mean would you just introduce yourself
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who you are uh what you do uh so everyone can can have a little background on you yeah absolutely
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and i couldn't agree more i mean so first and foremost i'm a parent um i've got a seven-year-old
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girl and a 10-year-old boy both of them uh play sports my daughter actually used to play baseball
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over with the boys before she could even start playing softball right before she even aged into that
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program and so um big into athletics and i know that as she grows up she's gonna look at uh really
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up to figures like you who are out there championing for their rights and so first and foremost like
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i said i'm a parent um i'm also executive director here at southeastern legal foundation
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we are the country's um oldest conservative public interest law firm that is a lot to say but at the
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end of the day we are a pro bono organization and we see the government when it violates the rights
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of americans so specifically constitutional issues right now we have lawsuits against the
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department of education challenging this title nine rewrite that i know we're going to talk about
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today we have a lawsuit where we actually represent leadership institute because universities want to
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charge crazy fees for you to come and speak and so um we operate in the courtroom and we also operate
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in the court of public opinion putting out a lot of education on these topics no that's great and
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i think that's a good segue into understanding title nine and and the free speech implications
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uh you mentioned which my viewers don't really know this because i don't think this is something
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that i've talked about but um it's a big push of mine of course us at the rightly gain center at
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the leadership institute to get on these college campuses mobilize and engage the youth uh my demographic
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you know people who who are in college who who are really desperate for the truth uh so that's what
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we've done i think last year i was on 45 different college campuses ranging from harvard princeton cal
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berkeley i mean you know very much one extreme and everything in between two you know smaller private
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christian schools uh so definitely putting ourselves into the belly of the beast a lot of people are
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familiar with uh the san francisco state university incident but what a lot of people probably don't
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know we get on these college campuses one campus in particular university of new mexico where i was
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charged a ridiculous amount as a security fee uh for police to be present at the event because they
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had heard of protests different things going on uh they said they needed to be there but they had to
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charge me and the leadership institute ten thousand dollars to show up uh of course this was
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inconsistent with what they have charged other speakers specifically speakers who speak on
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a more so socially liberal topics uh so you you guys at southeastern legal um helped us push back
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we sued you and m can you talk about this lawsuit very briefly uh kind of the just the meat and
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potatoes of it and what the result of this lawsuit was yeah so are the lawsuits still ongoing as you
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know um but at the end of the day schools can't discriminate on the basis of viewpoint right our
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first amendment protects our right to speak and what they were doing here with respect to you
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and leadership institute was blatant viewpoint discrimination uh the schools were allowing
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drag queens they had a huge event where they had drag queens from i think rupaul's show
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or something like that come onto campus and do a drag show no security fees were assessed and then
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when you want to come on and speak about title nine and speak about our rights and speak about why we
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need to fight back and raise awareness to this like you said they wanted to charge ten thousand dollars
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to have i forget if it was over 20 or 30 police officers including an entire arresting unit um there
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which is absurd and so we were able to get them down but it was still an egregious amount that
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they charged and so anyway we filed a lawsuit this is happening across the country it's not new but
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it's something that we have to continue to fight back against because they want to silence our voices
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they don't want us talking about free speech they don't want us talking about title nine on campuses
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like that's just the end result of it right yeah and it's important to note that's definitely not
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exclusive this treatment uh to just me uh ask any conservative speaker ask charlie kirk of course over
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at at turning point uh what he has faced on college campuses very similar very similar situation but is this
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something in terms of the the stifling of speech is this something that we can expect given the new
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biden harris administration rewrite what what are kind of the changes to title nine uh what what do
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these implications look like in the real world yeah so the implications uh truly cannot be understated
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so just to kind of for anyone listening obviously i'm sure they know what title nine is if they're
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following your podcast but if they don't title nine is a federal law that we've had in place for over
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50 years that prohibits discrimination on the basis of sex so it just ensures that all educational
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opportunities whether it's athletics extracurriculars admissions is available to women and girls and
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what we have now is we have the biden harris administration coming in and trying to change the
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definition of sex sex under their definition now means uh gender identity means sex stereotypes
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it means sex characteristics they're changing the standard that you have to that would be applied to
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establish a violation of title nine to a subjective standard so now it's if anyone feels like they
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were subjectively offended um then they can file a title nine complaint what this is going to do is
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it's going to chill speech it's going to force everyone to self-censor girls are going to be terrified
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to speak up about having to change or go to the restroom in front of boys they're going to be terrified to
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speak up about having to sleep uh in overnight sleeping accommodations whether it be in a dorm or
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on a um field trip or something like that and so they're going to be forced to self-censor and the
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courts are finding this right it's not just us out here saying this there have been four or five courts
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throughout this country that have already looked at this and said yes this violates the first amendment
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wow wow yeah that's um important for people to realize uh what about you know you mentioned kind
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of this locker room scenario uh that's something that that is allowed uh that is something that that
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really is seemingly celebrated i will say in terms of how administrate administrations and and you know
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at the institutional level how they treat this topic and so is that something that this new rewrite
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would allow for bathrooms locker rooms yeah changing spaces it won't just only allow it it will work
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it will require it um so in the 1970s when congress passed title nine they made sure that uh sex
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separate spaces so our bathrooms our locker rooms everything that we just mentioned that that's
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preserved so if a school has a boy's locker room and a girl's locker room that would not be a violation
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of title nine putting their federal funding subject to risk because they know that they have to protect
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physical safety they have to protect our dignity and the dignity of our girls and our boys right my son
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doesn't want to be changing in a locker room with girls any more than my daughter wants to be changing
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in a locker room with boys and so the new rewrite actually prohibits these sex separate spaces
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and it also prohibits schools from asking for any evidence of say gender dysphoria
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and so an example i use a lot is say you have a 14 year old daughter who has to dress out for pe
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she goes into the locker room to change and a boy comes in she simply says please don't change in
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front of me or i'm going to go change over there anything to show her discomfort he then can file a
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title nine complaint against her because the standard is subjective and she's commented on you know say his
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physical characteristics or his gender identity and a school now has to punish her so he has completely
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turned title nine on its head that girl should be protected right she should be able to file that sexual
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harassment claim against the boy and now he can take action against her um so not only has it changed the
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definition of sex but it has completely undermined the intent and it truly is putting our girls at
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a physical danger risk of what's going to happen here i wish every single person could hear your
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response hear your answer because i mean she's being punished for calling a spade a spade uh it's
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very orwellian uh when when you lay it out like that and when you understand it to be uh what they in now
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intend and what it effectively is and you mentioned men i think this is really interesting uh because
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you know we talk a lot about girls and women specifically in sports or or in bathrooms or
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locker rooms but men are affected affected too and so specifically this new rewrite uh outside of the
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locker room kind of situation how else are men affected uh adversely by by the new title nine
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well i mean their speech is silence too so you can imagine a kid in class whether they're or you know
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a young adult in class in college and they simply say that they believe in the biological reality
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that there are two sexes right there isn't there are men and there are women and they don't believe
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that there is a concept of gender identity that could be a violation of title nine and so again
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they could be punished for simply saying that we really don't know where that bar is and you know
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when people come back on the other side and say well it's not going to go that far
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i'll tell you that in open court when the judge in our case specifically asked the department of
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justice attorney can that situation happen right so will a boy be punished if they say that they
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don't believe in gender identity will a girl be punished if she says that she believes in the
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biological reality of sex the department of justice attorney couldn't answer well so the judge there said
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well if they can't even tell us then everyone's going to be forced to self-censor
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um and so again that's why we've been able to stop these changes from going into effect in all 50
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states of our clients young americas foundation and moms for liberty have members across the country
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and we've been able to stop this role in every school where there's a member of those organizations
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moms to get involved with groups like moms for liberty
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uh what about the due process side of of this new rewrite again i think a way that that adversely
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affects boys and men um i mean i can think of plenty of of stories that have uh garnered national
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attention over the past few years of women who have accused men of some sort of sexual crime on a
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college campus uh the the men have been convicted only to to find out later that they were wrongly
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convicted and that these women were uh attempting to i don't know if it if it's money if it's if
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it's attention whatever it is but this new title nine rewrite it impacts men in in that way too doesn't
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it oh absolutely i'm glad that you brought that up um you know our constitution requires that
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everyone get due process of the law so basic things right um access to an attorney uh the right to
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know what claims are being brought against you the right to actually look at the evidence that
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somebody brings against you whether you're talking in a criminal situation or with a sexual harassment
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complaint during the trump administration the department of education took all of these due process
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requirements that are constitution mandates and they actually made a rule about them for the very
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first time in the history of title nine everyone knew what rights they had if a title nine complaint
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was filed against them and if you were sexually harassed you knew what you had to establish to
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actually get some relief well the biden harris administration has gotten rid of all of that we
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have gone back to the kangaroo courts of the obama administration so sometimes a a boy you could have an
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18 year old kid um right i say a kid showing my age here but an 18 year old kid in college
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that actually goes to a fraternity party and a week later um he gets slapped with a sexual harassment
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complaint he doesn't actually get a copy of the complaint he doesn't even know it's profiled against
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him he doesn't have an opportunity to defend himself he doesn't have an opportunity to see the
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evidence he doesn't know until he gets an email saying that he is suspended or expelled from school
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this happened during the obama administration and it's going to happen again during the biden harris
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um rewrite if we don't stop it across this country so so during the trump administration uh was this
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was this a piece of title nine that had been uh i guess affected for for the better and it didn't
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an insured due process absolutely um so after seeing a lot of the stories that you were mentioning
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the department of education knew that they had to do something um during the obama years what we saw
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from the department of education was the creation of these kangaroo courts right where um i the number
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of sexual harassment complaints being filed was skyrocketing because of whether it be fame or
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attention right it doesn't mean that some of these weren't incredibly valid and that these girls rights
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need to be defended and that they needed relief but we also saw that we never really knew
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because nobody was actually going through a proper process where due process was allowed for both
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parties and so uh when betsy devos became the department of education the secretary of department
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of education they immediately went to work changing the actual regulations and making sure that these due
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process requirements were going to be codified and permanent never expecting that they would ever be
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controversial right because who doesn't want somebody to be properly defended that's just a basic right
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um and somehow it became incredibly controversial and they've gotten rid of it now um so this i'll be
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honest this november uh what happens through this election is going to have a huge impact on our college
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campuses and on due process rights for our boys and men throughout this country
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the phrase of of you know any educational program that receives federal funding uh i mean to me that
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seems i mean i i can think of other entities other than universities and and public schools that
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receive federal funding and so i guess what else does title nine apply to does it apply to somewhere like
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a ymca for example so it potentially could right if those programs are educational opportunities and
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it just depends on how it's funded one area that it absolutely affects and an agency no one would ever
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think is the usda right people when we say this people are like wait the usda how is it that they
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have to file like follow title nine and how is it that they now need to redefine sex to be gender identity
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well in our k-12 programs lunch programs go through the usda and there's also a number of
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those situations at college across all of our federal agencies we see grants that are made to our colleges
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and universities this is going to impact all of those grants and so any money that you're really
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seeing flow onto our college campuses any agencies that that money flows through are going to have to
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also de facto change the definition of sex to mean gender identity and and this is not by mistake
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um it was either on day one or day two of president biden's uh administration he issued an executive order
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where he told all of the federal agencies to go and get to work changing the definition of sex
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to now mean gender identity and sexual orientation and so he as president unilaterally changed the
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definition in all of our statutes and all of our regulations by just telling them to go get to work
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and they all got the assignment unfortunately so this wasn't done through congress this wasn't done
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through any of the necessary executive means to to ensure i have to imagine you know of course i'm someone
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with with no legal background per se i have lived experience on my side and and that certainly has helped
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me understand the harmful effects of this but but with no legal uh background to me this seems as if
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uh i mean this this i would imagine is a large part in why we've seen now 26 states uh push back suing
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the department of education uh for how this rewrite was was produced really i mean you said it yourself i mean
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this this wasn't done constitutionally or legally even it seems it absolutely wasn't right and so
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kind of we have to go back to what are our three branches of government which unfortunately too
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many people don't even learn in school these days i would say uh i'm getting to teach a high school
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course next week uh my government teacher from high school in the 90s now teaches at my kids school and
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he asked me to come in and teach on the constitution next week so i'm super excited and we're going to
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be talking about title nine but i'm going to make sure they know the three branches of government but
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um you know congress is the entity that passes laws especially here they passed title nine there was
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no question about what the definition of sex meant they pass our other laws we now have a fourth branch
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of government that has been created by the executive branch right are all of these federal agencies
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that just have so much red tape and that create the swamp um that we need to to be gone quite frankly
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um but yes congress is the one who should be passing these laws and instead we have a president right
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now who came in and tried to do this by executive order and the agencies went through it and that's
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why we have to sue right litigation is always the last um the last thing that we should be doing
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i always say that right but we have the federal courts for a reason we have when we have to go to
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them we're glad that they're there because then they can hold all these branches of government
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accountable do you think legislation is necessary that i mean codifies these words words that
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that we've never struggled to understand words like sex itself or words like even woman we've seen
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now i believe it's nine states uh that have passed a bill that does just this and i know at the federal
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level it's uh i believe they call it the women's bill of rights but i i think it's been undertaken by
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representative debbie lesko and diana harshberger um i mean is this legislation that would it's crazy
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that we even that i have to say is necessary but i mean i think this could be a good thing for
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clarity for transparency purposes yeah i mean it a hundred percent can't hurt right they can come
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back in and say this is what we meant and this is what the definition is hey agency this isn't an
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ambiguous term you're not here to fill the gaps there is no gap about what a woman is there is no
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gap about what sex means uh it means a man or a woman um know whether or not they can get that passed
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well that you know that's beyond my pay grade here um but you know whenever our legislatures can come
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in and further define these terms then it can only help when we have to litigate um of course you run
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the risk in blue states of them making the definition something absolutely absurd but at the end of the
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day that is why we have the federalism system that is why we have 50 states and we have seen a heck of a
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lot of people um making you know their views known just by moving and so you know i i at the end of
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the day we all know what women means we all know what men means um but to have that further defined by
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congress it takes that even ability away from the the agencies then that's right yeah we all know what a
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woman is but it's time our laws do i guess yeah uh that's been just i mean foundational really in
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uh spreading awareness of the issue how to talk about it uh why it's important uh you guys partnered
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with the leadership institute the riley gain center at the leadership institute and created a title nine
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training uh i was able to after this training had been drafted and created i was able to take the
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training to learn from the training uh the graphics the videos the the guides that are put out are are
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really just amazing i learned so much i i considered myself somewhat of an again not from the legal
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perspective but somewhat of an expert on title nine what it did what it meant for me as an athlete but
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gosh i learned so so much and so can you just take a minute and explain uh the training and what
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people can can expect from it how to access it yeah this was a fun training to do because i think that
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for people to understand title nine they have to first understand um like where you're coming from
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right and your lived experience that they actually understand that this is such an important issue and so
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of course we start the training with your story and you being able to tell everyone you know that
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watches it um how this has impacted you and then you know we just do our best to walk anyone that's
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going to take it through what title nine is the history of it because if you're going to try to
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understand how a law impacts you and how these changes uh violate your constitutional rights you have
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to kind of understand where we've been and you have to start with the text and so we walk everyone
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through that and we walk through the due process implications that we've talked about here the first
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amendment implications that we've talked about here and try to give everyone an idea of where they can
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go on their college campus to actually get more information so how can you learn about what your
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school's policies are on title nine how can you advocate that your school maintain um a reality
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definition of sex um how can you then also protect yourself if you're in a situation where you're in a
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locker room and a male comes in and you want to tell them that they can't be there because you
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don't want to have to undress in front of them or see them undress in front of you so we just try to
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give everyone some real life experience um or use real life experiences to kind of really train them up
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on their legal rights and then empower them to go out there and advocate and spread the word and
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we're coming out with a guidebook that comes uh with this training also that that's available on the
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website and that's something that we just hope that people give to everyone else right send that out
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to somebody who's never heard about title nine and get them up to speed on it also absolutely uh i
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implore uh school board members i implore moms and dads i mean the training is even suitable for
00:26:58.320
uh those young high school female athletes who uh might not understand the issue know it's wrong know
1.00
00:27:05.820
what's unfair and unsafe uh the issue specifically of men competing in women's sports um but want to
00:27:11.880
know what they can do about it this the training is suitable for for you too uh you can find it at
00:27:16.780
rileygaincenter.org again rileygaincenter.org i encourage everyone to go check it out uh not just to see the
00:27:24.160
training but uh we mentioned getting on college campuses uh that is something that is certainly
00:27:28.820
continuing uh through the rest of this semester uh i believe i will be on 17 different college
00:27:35.440
campuses over the next 40 45 days uh so everyone can check that out see if if me or some of the
00:27:42.740
rileygaincenter ambassadors are coming to a campus near you uh please go check that out again rileygaincenter.org
00:27:49.340
uh last question for you i mean what other issues are are you guys seeing government overreach on
00:27:56.500
that southeastern legal is pushing back on what about student loan debt i mean uh a lot of these
00:28:03.600
i think a lot of what we see around us is government overreach but but what are some of the things that
00:28:08.220
you guys are pushing back on yeah i mean any given day i can be working on a case where we're
00:28:13.340
serving the department of labor or the usda over like you said a litany of overreach but in the
00:28:18.480
educational area you know one thing that i think people have forgotten about is the fight to stop
00:28:22.580
critical race theory in our k-12 schools and on our college campuses um we have several lawsuits a
00:28:29.220
big one uh representing a teacher up in evanston illinois where the school actually engages in
00:28:34.800
mandatory segregation um they put the white people in one room with a non-white people in another room
00:28:39.980
and then they talk to them about racial issues and how to bring those issues into the classroom
00:28:44.540
um racial segregation has been unconstitutional and illegal in this country since 1954 and should have been
00:28:51.280
long before that and so the fact that this is happening in a school today is something that
00:28:55.580
we're trying to bring awareness to um people have kind of stopped for they've stopped talking about
00:29:00.000
this issue and so we're trying to bring that back to light and trying to stop it in the courts of law
00:29:04.540
amazing amazing well all very important in protecting and maintaining the innocence of
00:29:11.920
children uh something that i would imagine and i would have hoped uh that all of us could agree on
00:29:18.820
but unfortunately that's not the reality that we live in uh and so we appreciate you kim everything
00:29:25.100
uh that you're doing uh what southeastern legal is doing and pushing back uh really for common sense
00:29:32.560
policies and so thank you very much and thank you for joining the gains for girls podcast
00:29:37.020
thanks for having me all right guys thank you for tuning in to the gains for girls podcast
00:29:42.460
uh be sure to check out outkick.com again share this episode uh share it to someone your favorite
00:29:49.720
liberal who you think needs to be educated on what the democratic party and the biden harris
00:29:54.900
administration and what a harris waltz administration would continue to do to title nine share this with
00:30:00.800
them if they have a young daughter or a young son for that matter uh really really important stuff you
00:30:07.660
can check out the training at rally gain center.org i encourage you to do that uh you will also be able
00:30:13.700
to see a list of ambassadors of the center uh other girls who have faced similar if not really the same
00:30:21.020
situation that i found myself in uh myself and these ambassadors were getting on college campuses
00:30:26.540
you can find that list uh on the website hopefully i am coming to a college campus near you i would love to
00:30:33.540
see you there um but again that's at riley gain center.org uh thank you guys for tuning in and we
00:30:40.040
will see you next week on the gains for girls podcast