Gaines for Girls with Riley Gaines - May 28, 2025


Refusing to be Pushed Aside with Soleil Hoefer


Episode Stats


Length

25 minutes

Words per minute

164.68771

Word count

4,124

Sentence count

290

Harmful content

Misogyny

14

sentences flagged

Hate speech

2

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Soleil Hofer is a senior at Prosser High School in Washington State and a member of the Class of 2021. She has been a dual student-athlete in track and field and soccer, and she is fighting for equal opportunities for women in sports and beyond.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
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00:00:25.040 Hello, everybody.
00:00:26.540 Thank you for joining the Gains for Girls podcast.
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00:00:42.380 We have a super interesting conversation today with a young woman who has been impacted directly
00:00:48.220 at the hands of these progressive, that's the word they use, these progressive, really
00:00:53.700 regressive policies that have ultimately been detrimental to women, to women's rights, to 0.99
00:01:00.860 equal opportunities, to safety in our sports and beyond.
00:01:04.100 So very excited for that.
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00:02:29.920 Today we are talking to Soleil Hofer.
00:02:32.780 She is a track and soccer star.
00:02:35.400 She's a senior at Prosser High School in Washington State.
00:02:38.960 Of course, this is one of those usual suspects.
00:02:41.720 The state of Washington, like California, like Oregon, like Massachusetts, like Maine.
00:02:47.980 I'm sure you remember that conversation, the interaction that the whole country got to witness
00:02:52.880 between Governor Mills of Maine and Donald Trump.
00:02:55.740 Now the Department of Justice is involved there and withholding or at least threatening to withhold
00:03:01.400 federal funds from the state of Maine until they comply with federal law, that federal law being
00:03:07.160 Title IX.
00:03:08.620 Soleil's athletic excellence has earned her a college scholarship.
00:03:13.520 So she's going to continue her athletic career beyond high school.
00:03:17.800 Really incredible stuff.
00:03:19.780 But now we've gotten in touch because I noticed she filed a complaint with Alliance Defending Freedom,
00:03:26.020 which they've been on.
00:03:27.240 Several of their plaintiffs, several of their attorneys have been on the Games for Girls podcast several times.
00:03:32.500 They do incredible work, but they filed this complaint on behalf of high school athletes, two of them, two girls.
00:03:39.000 Soleil being one of them, who argue that Washington's, the state of Washington's policy,
00:03:44.740 specifically the WIAA's policies, it violates, you know, these male athletes being able to compete based on gender identity.
00:03:54.120 It violates Title IX by denying equal opportunity to female athletes.
00:03:58.480 It's so sad to me that young girls have to explain this to education and sports officials.
00:04:06.420 So they've asked the Department of Education to investigate and require the WIAA to base participation on sex,
00:04:15.060 not gender identity, crazy concept.
00:04:17.180 Check out this conversation here with Soleil and her attorney from Alliance Defending Freedom, Kate.
00:04:22.900 Well, thank you both for joining the Games for Girls podcast.
00:04:26.260 Very, very excited for this conversation with Soleil, a track and field athlete and her attorney with ADF,
00:04:33.020 who we have had several, both plaintiffs, attorneys on with ADF in the past.
00:04:37.960 Really, really appreciate what you guys are doing.
00:04:40.620 And I just love you guys as an organization.
00:04:42.600 So thank you for everything.
00:04:45.040 Soleil, before we talk about your advocacy and your passion to, of course, keep women's sports only for women, 0.99
00:04:51.260 can you just give us a little background on you, your track and field career, and what the sport means to you?
00:04:58.580 Oh, as you know, my name is Soleil Hofer.
00:05:00.740 I'm a dual sport athlete and I started track my freshman year.
00:05:04.540 And since freshman year, I've been very versatile.
00:05:07.760 I do up to nine events.
00:05:09.340 Now I have added almost half of all the events available in track on my plate.
00:05:15.640 So I'm very active in the sport.
00:05:17.800 I have a lot of different events I like to participate in.
00:05:20.280 And this year I started running the 400, which is when I started advocating for all of this.
00:05:26.200 Yeah, incredible.
00:05:26.800 What other sport do you play?
00:05:28.680 I play soccer.
00:05:30.240 Amazing.
00:05:30.580 And you have plans post high school to continue your athletic career.
00:05:35.260 That's right?
00:05:36.660 Yes.
00:05:37.480 Yeah.
00:05:38.040 Yeah.
00:05:38.260 Well, amazing.
00:05:39.180 I know how much time you dedicate to be able to really compete and succeed at the highest level.
00:05:46.680 So it's no joke.
00:05:48.380 You're training for hours and hours and hours.
00:05:50.580 You're making sacrifices that other students may not have to make, right, that could impact your social life.
00:05:57.020 It impacts time you spend with your family, your academics even.
00:06:01.100 So it's really no joke.
00:06:04.380 You mentioned your advocacy.
00:06:07.100 Will you just let us know when the first time you learned of this issue and I guess how you felt when you found out you would have to be racing a boy?
00:06:17.680 So the first time I learned about this issue was last year at a Cheney invite.
00:06:22.980 And one of my teammates had to run against this male athlete.
00:06:27.020 And then, again, I saw him run at state and run the 400 and win by almost a whole three seconds.
00:06:34.320 And I got to see the reaction of the girl who got second place.
00:06:38.060 I saw her mom and her mom was so distraught.
00:06:41.080 And this year I started running the 400.
00:06:43.880 And that's when I learned that I would potentially, at the end of postseason, have to run against this male athlete.
00:06:49.300 Wow.
00:06:50.200 Yeah, you mentioned the impact on the girls.
00:06:52.820 And it's something that I don't think is reported on enough, or at least accurately.
00:06:58.240 We talk a lot, the media coverage that this issue tends to get.
00:07:02.360 Unfortunately, it focuses on the boy oftentimes, which I don't believe that to be fair to the real.
00:07:09.640 I don't like the word victims because, again, I don't look at you guys as victims necessarily.
00:07:16.260 But it's the women who are being impacted.
00:07:19.520 Therefore, I believe it's their voices who deserve to be heard.
00:07:22.180 It's their names and their faces who deserve to be shown.
00:07:26.360 And you mentioned the parents, too, which that's something that I saw when this was an issue that I faced.
00:07:32.900 So many parents, moms who were in tears watching their daughters really be obliterated in a sport that they worked their whole life to achieve at.
00:07:42.680 And you mentioned three seconds, too.
00:07:44.280 Like, that's not a that's a large margin in your sport.
00:07:49.400 Yeah, it's very much.
00:07:51.200 Yeah.
00:07:51.600 A sport that's measured down to to the hundredth of a second.
00:07:54.380 Three seconds is pretty significant.
00:07:56.500 So I guess, you know, before I go to Kay and ask a few questions, why did you decide to speak up now?
00:08:03.480 What was kind of that final straw for you?
00:08:06.480 The final straw for me was when I started running the 400 and when my sister especially started showing interest in doing track because I'm an oldest sister.
00:08:18.600 I'm the oldest of three and my younger sister now is a 400 runner for the middle school team.
00:08:24.260 And so when I realized that she would have to potentially face this in the future, I was I was just not ready.
00:08:32.060 I didn't want her to have to deal with this.
00:08:33.560 So I decided to speak up and use my voice and just hopefully prevent this from happening to all of the younger female athletes that are going to have to come up and deal with something like this. 0.58
00:08:45.060 Yeah, well, that's an incredible perspective.
00:08:46.700 And your younger sister has a role model in you. 0.72
00:08:50.720 I'm sure she looks up to you.
00:08:51.920 Kay, can you just tell us about some of the policies that the state of Washington and I mean, there are several states at this point, but specifically the state of Washington, the policies they're enforcing that allows for this to to continue to happen?
00:09:06.520 Well, Washington state has a policy, both with the athletic organization that runs these sports and at the state level of of organizing sports by gender identity rather than sex.
00:09:19.180 And that's something that we've seen happen in a number of states across the country.
00:09:22.560 There's been lots of litigation on this issue over the last five years, even.
00:09:26.180 But now we're in a spot where we have a federal administration that's very concerned about this issue, as they should be.
00:09:32.520 This is about equal opportunities for women in sports.
00:09:35.520 And you can see Soleil's heart here.
00:09:38.080 All she's worked for, the benefits that she's getting from being part of a team, from working hard, from being able to show herself that she can achieve these things, cut seconds off of her time.
00:09:48.800 And all that's taken away from her and her teammates.
00:09:51.280 When you allow male students who have a larger heart, lungs, bigger muscles, better bone density, all these things that make them faster and better equipped in these sports, they're crushing the opportunities for these women to gain in this important activity. 0.90
00:10:08.760 I bet when you were in grad school, you never imagined you would have to, you know, publicly declare in court settings, oftentimes, the physical differences between boys and girls.
00:10:20.900 Totally crazy.
00:10:22.080 So what actions did you guys take to ultimately defend Soleil and girls across the state of Washington and really across the rest of the nation?
00:10:32.240 Well, Alliance Defending Freedom has been involved in this issue for the last five years, bringing cases on this issue in Connecticut.
00:10:38.600 And other states.
00:10:39.820 So this is something that has been a priority for us.
00:10:42.080 But seeing that this is now a priority for the federal administration, that gave us an opportunity to file what's called an OCR complaint.
00:10:49.080 It's a way for us to bring Soleil's issue to the government to say, you need to investigate the policies in Washington and ensure that they are aligned with federal law, which they are not.
00:10:59.900 And so we filed this letter with the federal administration.
00:11:03.740 And are we needing to hear back?
00:11:05.700 But this will open, hopefully, an investigation into the policies in Washington state that can ensure that all women in Washington get fair opportunities to compete in sports.
00:11:15.360 Obviously, Donald Trump signed an executive order back in February.
00:11:22.420 It was one of the most amazing experiences.
00:11:25.400 I got to be there as he signed this.
00:11:27.340 So special because there were all these young girls, like I'm talking seven, eight-year-old girls surrounding him as he signed this.
00:11:34.100 It was a really beautiful visual to see.
00:11:37.180 But I don't think a lot of people, you know, you're common sense, everyday American, maybe they don't understand what this executive order necessarily means, especially in terms of longevity.
00:11:50.480 So how is the state of Washington able to do this when there is federal law, Title IX, and when Donald Trump signed this executive order just a few months ago?
00:12:00.880 Well, the critical law here is Title IX.
00:12:03.140 It's the law that years and years ago set out women's sports as separate, allowing equal opportunities for women to gain in athletics.
00:12:11.380 And it was an important law that was upheld separating sports by sex for years and years and years, until most recently.
00:12:17.880 What happened with the executive order is that the president said, we're going to affirm Title IX.
00:12:23.560 We're going to enforce Title IX the way that it was intended, to separate sports, to allow women to have equal opportunities in athletics.
00:12:31.540 And by doing that, the order states out his policy and instructs his various agencies to begin investigating and enforcing Title IX in the way that it was intended.
00:12:42.640 So coming to Washington State, what's happened is Washington State saw that executive order.
00:12:46.940 They have policies that they arrange their sports based on gender identity rather than sex.
00:12:51.400 And they said publicly, we're not going to change.
00:12:54.660 We're going to continue to separate sports by gender identity, no matter what federal law says or what the government says.
00:13:01.120 And that opens up the opportunity for the federal administration to come in and investigate and to try to bring Washington in line with federal law, which it should be.
00:13:09.800 Absolutely. And we've seen pretty much everyone has seen the interaction between Governor Mills of Maine and Donald Trump and what she I think she believed to be this mic drop moment where she was like, I'll see you in court.
00:13:23.100 Well, the Department of Justice ended up getting involved and now I think they've issued warnings to California, to other states as well.
00:13:31.400 I know Minnesota was a priority of theirs. So it is so good that you guys are putting Washington.
00:13:36.300 I know they're following along. I know they know what's going on.
00:13:38.680 But to now give them an outlet to to really do something, it's just incredible.
00:13:44.680 So so lay, once you filed this complaint, how has your school or your peers or or really your teammates like how have they responded to your involvement in this?
00:13:56.440 Everyone is so supportive. My relay team, I'm a run on the four by one, four by two and four by four.
00:14:02.460 All of us wear Title IX shirts. We are all very supportive, like the parents all have shirts that are Title IX, save women's sports.
00:14:11.800 Everyone is so supportive of it. And I think just from watching one of our teammates have to go through the same thing last year and to now having someone that is going against it and saying this isn't right is just opening a door for them that they didn't know was there.
00:14:26.320 And everyone is like following how everything's playing out and just they're so supportive.
00:14:32.460 Yeah, that's incredible. And it's important to remember, like this isn't Texas or Tennessee or Florida.
00:14:39.360 This is in Washington state, which is historically known to be a bastion of liberalism, if you will.
00:14:48.160 So that's pretty remarkable to to feel that support and to have that sense of unity, especially among your teammates.
00:14:55.080 That's that's that's pretty special. Do you feel like you're all's voices as women, as female athletes?
00:15:03.360 Do you feel like you've been heard in this debate or do you feel largely ignored by those those policymakers or I guess state officials, both elected and unelected in the state of Washington?
00:15:16.300 I feel like I'm using my voice as much as I can and whether or not people want to listen, that's on them.
00:15:25.120 But I'm going to continue to use my voice to try and be heard as much as I can.
00:15:29.640 And it's being heard by people who want to listen. And ultimately, those people are going to be the one that make the decision to help save women's sports.
00:15:37.580 Yeah. Yeah. And now, as Kate mentioned, we have the ability to I think the previous four years, it really was like screaming into a void.
00:15:46.660 You could talk about it all day long. But the reality, you know, being totally transparent here, there wasn't a whole lot you could do.
00:15:54.060 Most of these these courts were not ruling in our favor.
00:15:58.960 Of course, the Biden administration. I mean, they totally ignored us as women. 1.00
00:16:02.960 And so now we have the ability. So, Kate, what can still be done federally as well as locally?
00:16:09.700 And I guess maybe a better way to phrase it is like, what's best case scenario here?
00:16:14.000 Is it the Department of Justice getting involved? Is it the Department of Education getting involved?
00:16:18.620 Is this a case, some sort of Title IX case going all the way to the Supreme Court?
00:16:24.020 I think any of those options would be better than where we're at.
00:16:28.980 But having voices like Soleil's and yours really speaking out, that's continuing to move things forward.
00:16:36.900 And you see this, I think Soleil's story is an example.
00:16:40.380 You see this crossing political lines as people start to recognize the impact on women from these kinds of policies. 0.95
00:16:47.040 With the federal government behind us at this point on this issue, having the Department of Justice or the Department of Education step in on something like this through the Office of Civil Rights or elsewhere, that's important.
00:16:59.560 There are also a number of cases still bubbling up through the courts, including in Connecticut.
00:17:04.160 There's been movement in Idaho, Minnesota, other states, those reaching a level where they're going to get court of appeals decisions or the Supreme Court laying in.
00:17:14.140 And that could also be helpful. But I think the fastest approach here right now is what's going on with the federal government and their willingness to try to push states to follow federal law for the benefit of women.
00:17:27.060 Yeah. Soleil, I mean, I really just have a couple more things for you.
00:17:31.920 If you could speak to education and sports officials directly, what would your message be?
00:17:39.320 I would say that they just need to recognize the fact that a man is a man and a woman is a woman.
00:17:46.720 Men have the physical advantages over us. They have bigger hearts, like Kate said.
00:17:51.220 They have more bone density. They don't have to take any testosterone suppressants.
00:17:57.460 They just have an ultimate advantage and they're taking away the right that we have to compete in our sport.
00:18:04.000 And girls deserve equal opportunities to be able to experience how it feels to win and how it feels to make a shot and a goal, how it feels to cross the finish line, how it feels to hit a home run. 0.87
00:18:15.560 We all deserve that thrill of victory. And taking that away and taking away our right to Title IX, it was designed to provide women with equal opportunities. 1.00
00:18:24.900 And if they can't recognize that we have every right to participate, then I don't know what to tell them.
00:18:31.100 But we're going to continue to keep using our voices to be heard.
00:18:34.800 Man, hearing you say that and understanding how the other side, they call this progressive.
00:18:42.240 They say, you know, we're making progress. We're moving in the positive forward direction.
00:18:46.740 But to hear what you just said, what they're doing is deeply regressive and utterly misogynistic.
00:18:54.880 And the definition of sex-based discrimination, it is by no means progress, what is happening to you and your teammates and other girls across the country.
00:19:05.540 So what's next? What's the next hurdle you guys have to face?
00:19:09.240 No pun intended, I guess. Or your next competition. What's the next thing on the docket here for you guys?
00:19:18.260 Well, in the legal case, we're waiting to hear back from the federal government.
00:19:21.940 This takes some process for them to review complaints.
00:19:24.600 But I know Soleil is also preparing for some upcoming races.
00:19:29.720 Yeah, I have the state meet next week.
00:19:33.040 We have a track meet this Friday, which is our district championships.
00:19:36.820 And if we place top two, then we get to go to state.
00:19:40.040 And we are hoping to take all three of our relays to state.
00:19:44.440 And one of those relays would be raced against that male athlete from the school in Spokane.
00:19:51.320 But ultimately, we're just trying to get through this meet.
00:19:54.400 And whatever happens at state happens.
00:19:56.680 And I think that there will be a lot of people there who are supportive if the time comes that we do have to run against him.
00:20:02.480 And we know that everyone has our backs.
00:20:04.980 And just trying to get through this as much as we can, that's all we can do.
00:20:10.660 People definitely have your backs, not even just across the nation, across the world.
00:20:16.300 I hope to see pictures of you and your relay and your Title IX shirts to be able to amplify and continue to spread the message.
00:20:24.560 Last thing for you, and really for both of you, what's your message to those who say this isn't really an issue or that only a few women are actually being affected by this?
00:20:36.440 Only a few men, a few boys are actually playing on the court or the field or the track with girls.
00:20:45.440 Not so.
00:20:46.640 This is a widespread issue that's impacting women's sports across the country. 0.98
00:20:50.660 That's why you've seen litigation in so many states and you've seen so many women speaking out. 1.00
00:20:55.740 These male athletes can sweep titles across an entire state, take every state championship.
00:21:02.020 It's damaging women's ability to compete in sports equally, to gain the benefits of athletics. 1.00
00:21:10.680 And it's hurting girls like Soleil every day.
00:21:14.600 Yeah.
00:21:15.240 And everyone says that it's just a couple athletes.
00:21:17.900 There's just a few.
00:21:18.760 But in reality, it happens.
00:21:20.580 I've had to play soccer against a male athlete.
00:21:23.000 He was a goalie.
00:21:23.780 I play forward.
00:21:24.860 It was hard because I'm scared that I'm going to get taken out or they have a physical advantage.
00:21:29.440 So I've seen it in now multiple sports.
00:21:32.480 I've seen it all over the country.
00:21:34.200 I've seen it in every state.
00:21:35.280 I've seen it at collegiate level and the adult level.
00:21:37.840 I've seen it even in little kids sports.
00:21:40.620 So it's just people saying that it's not a widespread thing.
00:21:44.020 It is.
00:21:44.500 And we need to recognize it is.
00:21:45.800 Just like we need to recognize that we have every right to be here.
00:21:48.760 And they need to realize that they need to protect Title IX.
00:21:52.360 And that's ultimately all we're trying to do.
00:21:55.480 Absolutely.
00:21:56.360 And even if it was an issue that wasn't affecting that many girls, I mean, how many girls is enough? 0.87
00:22:03.660 Right?
00:22:03.880 Is it five?
00:22:05.500 Is it 10?
00:22:06.100 Is there a finite number here of how many girls have to be injured or lose out on opportunities 1.00
00:22:10.760 or be exploited in locker rooms before these, again, sports or policy officials begin to care?
00:22:19.440 So, again, Soleil and Kate, thank you for what you're doing.
00:22:23.160 Thank you for being willing to put yourself out there because you are.
00:22:28.080 Especially, look, I was just in Seattle a few weeks ago.
00:22:31.540 And for the stance that I've taken, I had human feces thrown at me.
00:22:36.300 So, like, it's not easy to do what you're doing, to say the controversial thing that men cannot become women and vice versa.
00:22:46.400 But it is a necessary and a very urgent thing.
00:22:49.960 So thank you, guys.
00:22:51.140 Thank you, guys, for tuning in to the Games for Girls podcast.
00:23:15.500 Yes, we're going to amplify on my personal page with OutKick.
00:23:21.860 We'll talk about it, I'm sure, on the podcast again.
00:23:24.820 What Soleil is set to face this week and next week at States, where she will likely be competing against this boy.
00:23:32.840 Tragic stuff, really.
00:23:34.320 It's heartbreaking being able to, of course, after the recording ends, just talk to her personally and directly for, you know, however many minutes.
00:23:43.380 And to really hear her heart of how much she cares, how hard she works, and how all she wants is the bare minimum, equal treatment, equal opportunities.
00:23:55.400 Crazy that young girls have to explain this.
00:23:58.580 Anyways, you can check us out at youtube.com slash OutKick.
00:24:01.860 That's where you'll find all things Games for Girls. 1.00
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00:24:05.360 You never want to miss a moment of this show.
00:24:07.880 You can comment there, too, which is intriguing.
00:24:12.640 It's engaging.
00:24:13.360 You can talk to people who agree, who disagree.
00:24:15.780 So I encourage you to do that.
00:24:17.800 And, again, cozyearth.com for the best loungewear pajamas and sheets you will ever be able to touch, to use, to sleep in.
00:24:27.280 Cozyearth.com, code GAINS, G-A-I-N-E-S, for 40% off.
00:24:31.240 And we will see you guys again next week.
00:24:32.500 We'll see you guys again next week.