Gaines for Girls with Riley Gaines - August 30, 2023


RILEY GAINES PODCAST： Inga Thompson's Fight For Fair Women's Sports


Episode Stats

Length

39 minutes

Words per Minute

164.61479

Word Count

6,485

Sentence Count

410

Misogynist Sentences

58

Hate Speech Sentences

32


Summary

Ingrid Thompson is a three-time World Champion and a trailblazer for protecting women's sports. She has been on three Olympic teams, won three medals at the World Championships, and placed in the podium at the Tour de France. Ingrid is a leading voice on the issue of gender dysphoria in the LGBTQ+ community.


Transcript

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00:00:30.000 Welcome back to the Games for Girls podcast.
00:00:36.840 This week, I am so, so excited to have this guest on.
00:00:40.780 She is a three-time Olympian.
00:00:42.760 She's a three-time world champion.
00:00:44.880 But not only is she a phenomenal athlete,
00:00:47.780 she's a trailblazer for protecting women's sports.
00:00:50.520 Check out my interview with Inga Thompson.
00:00:53.420 So, Inga, first of all, you are incredible.
00:00:57.360 You are inspiring to me.
00:00:58.660 We just spent some time together down in Knoxville,
00:01:01.460 where we kind of orchestrated this rally alongside some other groups,
00:01:04.580 which was really powerful.
00:01:06.040 And we'll get into how it was powerful in a little bit.
00:01:08.520 But I want you to just start off by sharing your accomplishments,
00:01:12.720 sharing your achievements,
00:01:14.040 and really how you got to the position that you're in now.
00:01:17.160 I originally started off as a runner for 10 years.
00:01:20.340 So I had, boy, I started training, I think, when I was 10 years old.
00:01:24.680 I mean, that's what all of us do to get to the level that we're at,
00:01:29.440 is we start training as children.
00:01:31.360 So I had 10 years as a runner under this amazing coach, Lyle Freeman,
00:01:35.860 was on a running scholarship and was injured.
00:01:39.560 And I picked up a bike, you know, just to try to train,
00:01:43.100 try to keep my fitness.
00:01:44.180 And then I saw on the TV they had the first women's Tour de France ever.
00:01:48.980 They were going to have the first women's Olympic road race ever in bicycling.
00:01:52.780 And I thought, that's what I want to do.
00:01:54.980 Thinking I could just like, at least for the Tour de France,
00:01:57.540 I thought I could just sign up like any runner does.
00:01:59.740 You know, you can just sign up and just go.
00:02:01.520 I mean, absolutely clueless to the, you know, the team dynamic
00:02:04.620 and everything that goes on to be on a team.
00:02:08.080 And anyway, so I started racing my bike.
00:02:10.020 And I think I did five or six races and qualified to go to the Olympic trials.
00:02:13.880 And I'm like, you know, and went to the Olympic trials
00:02:17.420 and I made it on an Olympic team.
00:02:20.080 And I just had this stellar start.
00:02:23.260 And from there, I've been on three Olympic teams
00:02:25.500 and I've got three medals at the world championships
00:02:28.580 and 10 national championships and podium finishes
00:02:33.020 at the Tour de France or the polka dot jersey.
00:02:37.360 I hit my niche.
00:02:40.220 And, you know, I've always kind of said,
00:02:42.140 you've got to have kind of like the perfect storm.
00:02:44.180 You have to have the training, the dedication.
00:02:46.800 You have to have the gift of the physical genetics.
00:02:50.760 And you have to have an incredible work ethic
00:02:53.420 and the ability to suffer.
00:02:56.300 And then you have to find the sport that fits you.
00:02:59.200 And as a runner, I was too tall, too, you know, the list can go on.
00:03:03.160 But you put me on a bike and the fit was perfect.
00:03:06.900 And here I am talking to you.
00:03:11.700 I like how you said suffer.
00:03:13.920 And I don't think a lot of people understand.
00:03:16.120 While, of course, there are benefits to playing sports
00:03:19.180 and the good and most certainly outweighs the bad,
00:03:21.400 it really is suffering.
00:03:22.940 The amount of time and the amount of dedication
00:03:25.080 and the effort and the sacrifices that you have to make
00:03:28.000 to compete at that highest level.
00:03:30.020 And you've been on three Olympic teams.
00:03:32.300 I mean, I don't think people can grasp fully
00:03:35.340 what that suffering really looks like.
00:03:37.960 But you mentioned you're here.
00:03:39.160 You're here now.
00:03:39.780 You're talking to me.
00:03:41.480 Talk about what got you into advocating
00:03:44.140 to really save women's sports
00:03:45.720 because you are a leading voice on this issue.
00:03:50.040 What got me into it, actually, let's step back.
00:03:53.260 You know, I have a lot of transgender friends.
00:03:55.560 And when I first heard of this ruling,
00:03:59.020 I believed the science that we were told.
00:04:02.780 You know, we were told that this was fair
00:04:05.080 and that when they dropped their testosterone level,
00:04:08.540 they became weak.
00:04:09.740 And I believed that lie for a long time.
00:04:14.040 And then I started noticing that the sport
00:04:16.480 was being dominated by men with gender dysphoria.
00:04:20.540 And then I started hearing the women talking about
00:04:24.940 how frustrating it was.
00:04:26.460 And then I started to watch the bullying
00:04:29.080 of Rachel McKinnon slash Veronica Ivy.
00:04:33.420 And it kind of left my jaw on the ground
00:04:36.680 that there could be this blatant bullying
00:04:39.940 of the women at these races.
00:04:43.360 And it was getting all of this press.
00:04:46.080 And it just seemed like something was so wrong
00:04:49.980 that a bully could get so much press.
00:04:52.120 If that was a woman saying stuff about other women,
00:04:56.060 they would have been sanctioned.
00:04:57.500 They would have been, you know, penalized.
00:05:00.720 They, and it was like, if you were trans,
00:05:02.940 you could, you can do anything.
00:05:04.880 You could bully the women.
00:05:06.020 And it was actually considered to be okay.
00:05:09.980 And I found that to be quite admirable.
00:05:13.100 Yeah.
00:05:13.500 And so I ended up writing a letter
00:05:16.700 to the, to the Olympic committee.
00:05:19.020 And I said, if, if this is so important
00:05:23.540 and including transgender people is so important,
00:05:26.760 and with the amount of transgender people
00:05:28.880 that were, you know, coming and, you know,
00:05:32.880 coming out and declaring who they were
00:05:34.840 and self-IDing, I thought,
00:05:36.820 it's time to build a category for them.
00:05:40.200 And, and I still believe that, you know,
00:05:42.220 if they had started 20 years ago,
00:05:44.100 developing a category for transgender women
00:05:47.000 to compete in, they would have a well-established sport
00:05:50.840 with tons of support.
00:05:53.160 And you wouldn't have these angry women
00:05:54.840 and you wouldn't have this political divide
00:05:57.420 if they had just done it correctly from the beginning.
00:06:01.820 Right.
00:06:03.600 But here we are.
00:06:04.700 And, and even though the International Cycling Union
00:06:08.040 has changed the rules,
00:06:10.020 now another set of people are really going to be hurt.
00:06:13.800 Transgender people.
00:06:14.700 But now women's sports is protected.
00:06:16.440 But women suffered for the last 20 years.
00:06:19.300 And I'm just, I'm very sorry that this rule was ever passed
00:06:22.580 to begin with because of the amount of hate that has gone on,
00:06:27.100 the amount of jobs that have been lost,
00:06:28.900 people that have been vilified, wrongly called transphobia.
00:06:32.740 I mean, this has just been the worst social experiment
00:06:37.000 that has ever happened to people, you know,
00:06:40.320 and, and, you know,
00:06:41.640 and at first it just started off with sports.
00:06:43.580 And then, then I vaguely remember hearing about
00:06:46.040 the bathroom bill thinking,
00:06:48.020 oh, that's not that big of a deal.
00:06:49.660 You know, we have stalls that close,
00:06:52.040 but then it turned into what happened with you
00:06:56.060 in the locker rooms.
00:06:58.040 And once again,
00:06:59.360 just when I thought that I couldn't be more upset,
00:07:01.680 I thought about,
00:07:03.120 I thought about where I was at that age.
00:07:06.080 And, you know,
00:07:07.060 I went into colleges as a virgin,
00:07:10.880 had never been around men,
00:07:12.060 and to think that the first time that I was exposed to a man
00:07:15.660 was against my will in a locker room.
00:07:18.920 Everything seems so benign right at the beginning.
00:07:25.900 And, and it's not benign.
00:07:28.000 And I, the term social experiment that you use,
00:07:32.180 it really is just that.
00:07:34.540 But with us as women and young girls
00:07:37.980 being the collateral damage in this social experiment,
00:07:42.280 it's us who are at Jeopardy,
00:07:43.460 it's our sporting category,
00:07:44.800 it's our safety in our sports,
00:07:46.240 it's our prize money,
00:07:47.220 it's our privacy in the locker rooms.
00:07:49.560 It's only affecting,
00:07:50.960 really, putting us at Jeopardy as women.
00:07:54.160 And so I think that term social experiment
00:07:55.740 is really powerful.
00:07:57.420 You mentioned Veronica Ivey.
00:07:59.160 I, of course,
00:08:00.140 I know who Veronica Ivey is.
00:08:03.580 I have been on some,
00:08:05.060 some different debate radio shows
00:08:07.220 and different things with him.
00:08:08.400 And I, I see him on Twitter.
00:08:10.900 But for those who don't know who this is,
00:08:14.020 would you be willing to kind of share a little
00:08:16.980 about who this person is and what they do,
00:08:20.080 especially in the world of cycling?
00:08:22.460 My first interaction with Rachel McKinnon,
00:08:27.460 Veronica Ivey,
00:08:28.640 was when I had put forth a letter to the Olympic community.
00:08:31.760 And I made it,
00:08:32.720 and I made the letter public.
00:08:34.080 You know, we had, you know,
00:08:36.000 hundreds of signatures from Olympians.
00:08:37.920 And what was shared with me
00:08:41.360 was a, a private chat group
00:08:43.720 that they had somebody,
00:08:44.700 and it was Veronica Ivey
00:08:46.180 instigating.
00:08:48.380 She had a,
00:08:49.380 she had an army of women behind him,
00:08:51.820 women,
00:08:52.520 that were going after the jobs
00:08:55.000 and names,
00:08:57.400 sponsorship,
00:08:58.180 of anybody who had liked my post
00:09:00.640 asking for a third category.
00:09:02.920 And so here's Veronica Ivey
00:09:05.680 asking these people
00:09:07.060 to go after their jobs,
00:09:08.420 asking them to,
00:09:09.640 you know,
00:09:10.580 eviscerate me publicly.
00:09:12.540 And then shortly after that,
00:09:14.980 here comes Tara Sepleve,
00:09:17.320 threatening me with a baseball bat
00:09:18.860 on social media.
00:09:20.820 Veronica Ivey,
00:09:21.680 I was one of the people listed that,
00:09:23.880 you know,
00:09:24.200 I was a TERF
00:09:24.920 that should die in a grease fire.
00:09:27.320 And,
00:09:27.920 and it just furthered my resolve.
00:09:31.580 And then you start getting attacked
00:09:33.020 from this army of people
00:09:35.480 that go after you,
00:09:36.700 going after friends,
00:09:39.020 going after jobs.
00:09:40.100 I mean,
00:09:40.360 it,
00:09:40.600 it's ludicrous,
00:09:42.920 the amount of hate
00:09:44.000 that comes out of this
00:09:45.840 transgender radical advocate group.
00:09:48.800 And yet at the same time,
00:09:51.060 the two transgender people
00:09:52.400 that I know,
00:09:53.660 they're like,
00:09:54.020 this is not who we are.
00:09:55.700 This is not what we do.
00:09:56.820 We don't infiltrate women's faces.
00:09:58.920 We understand
00:09:59.680 we have gender dysphoria
00:10:01.740 and they,
00:10:02.580 they like women
00:10:03.860 and they respect women.
00:10:05.360 And this ideology does
00:10:07.620 and this self ID
00:10:08.560 is it opens up this loophole
00:10:10.820 to the men
00:10:14.000 that claim to have gender dysphoria.
00:10:16.340 And sometimes I wonder
00:10:17.160 if they're just about men
00:10:18.260 that hate women.
00:10:20.380 There are two that is
00:10:21.360 opportunistic
00:10:23.340 as to how to get in there
00:10:25.380 and really tell women,
00:10:27.360 you know,
00:10:28.100 really dominate women
00:10:29.340 and all in,
00:10:30.040 in,
00:10:30.280 in,
00:10:30.760 in the worst possible.
00:10:34.040 Totally.
00:10:34.600 Again,
00:10:34.960 it's,
00:10:35.600 it's a power trip.
00:10:36.760 And if you look at this
00:10:37.840 for what it is,
00:10:39.500 why are we seeing women
00:10:41.300 go into men's sports
00:10:42.760 or men's prisons
00:10:44.060 or men's fraternities
00:10:45.560 or men's restrooms?
00:10:47.000 And it's an,
00:10:47.960 it's an ego trip.
00:10:49.480 Um,
00:10:49.700 it's a way for these men
00:10:50.780 to feel dominant.
00:10:52.140 It's a way for these men
00:10:53.420 to feel powerful.
00:10:54.360 And again,
00:10:54.900 that's not to say
00:10:55.680 that's the case
00:10:56.300 for every single trans person.
00:10:57.880 I,
00:10:58.420 I,
00:10:58.680 I do believe there are people
00:10:59.940 that struggle truly
00:11:01.260 with gender dysphoria,
00:11:02.180 but how can we not acknowledge
00:11:04.160 that the systems
00:11:04.980 that we have in place,
00:11:06.260 um,
00:11:07.480 it,
00:11:07.640 it doesn't just limit
00:11:09.220 these,
00:11:09.680 these women's spaces
00:11:11.440 for people with gender dysphoria,
00:11:13.120 especially with the self ID laws,
00:11:15.700 um,
00:11:16.260 to simply say I am a woman
00:11:17.740 and,
00:11:18.220 and you get access
00:11:19.100 to these,
00:11:19.720 these places.
00:11:20.760 So you get to infringe
00:11:21.560 upon our rights
00:11:22.360 simply for saying
00:11:23.240 I am a woman.
00:11:24.340 Um,
00:11:24.860 you're right.
00:11:25.380 The term leader Chris,
00:11:26.420 it is absolutely
00:11:27.360 just that.
00:11:29.080 Um,
00:11:29.600 and we've seen cycling,
00:11:31.140 cycling was,
00:11:32.040 cycling has been
00:11:32.920 one of the worst sports
00:11:34.720 in terms of infiltration
00:11:35.880 of men
00:11:36.400 into the women's category.
00:11:38.020 Uh,
00:11:38.500 I have seen it time
00:11:40.280 and time again,
00:11:41.280 uh,
00:11:42.240 at all levels.
00:11:43.140 Right.
00:11:43.640 And so I think
00:11:45.240 it's incredibly interesting
00:11:46.320 because the UCI,
00:11:47.640 uh,
00:11:48.220 which is the,
00:11:48.840 the international cycling
00:11:50.320 governing body,
00:11:51.200 correct?
00:11:51.560 Right.
00:11:53.260 Just a few months ago,
00:11:55.240 they doubled down
00:11:56.700 on their stance
00:11:57.960 of allowing men,
00:11:59.420 trans women,
00:12:00.140 to compete
00:12:00.740 in the women's category.
00:12:02.040 But just a few weeks ago,
00:12:04.300 we saw
00:12:05.540 the UCI
00:12:06.820 take a totally
00:12:07.940 different approach
00:12:08.640 and can you walk us
00:12:09.560 through
00:12:09.920 what their new guideline
00:12:11.420 really is?
00:12:13.200 Well,
00:12:13.400 a little bit of back
00:12:14.540 history on this one.
00:12:15.560 This is where
00:12:16.020 people like you
00:12:17.320 are super important
00:12:18.140 because there was
00:12:19.060 a huge group of us
00:12:21.080 that,
00:12:21.380 that advocated for this.
00:12:23.480 And right after
00:12:24.300 Austin Killip's win,
00:12:26.360 who's,
00:12:26.920 you know,
00:12:27.180 he's a transgender woman,
00:12:28.900 uh,
00:12:29.260 his,
00:12:29.560 his win at Tour of Gila,
00:12:31.060 there was outrage.
00:12:33.560 And the International
00:12:34.700 Cycling Union,
00:12:35.700 they doubled down,
00:12:36.820 they say,
00:12:37.240 we,
00:12:37.620 we stood,
00:12:38.120 they stood by their policy
00:12:39.520 of having transgender women
00:12:40.720 and women's sports.
00:12:41.820 And then that's when
00:12:42.860 we called for a protest.
00:12:44.980 And the,
00:12:45.640 the women over in Glasgow
00:12:47.280 were putting together
00:12:48.800 a protest
00:12:49.320 at the World Championships.
00:12:50.380 And then we did
00:12:51.160 our small protest
00:12:52.120 that you were there with.
00:12:53.740 And I think that really
00:12:54.920 got the attention
00:12:55.680 because when you think about it,
00:12:57.660 they've had the science
00:12:59.120 that shows that
00:13:00.120 this is not fair
00:13:01.140 for years.
00:13:02.400 And there's just
00:13:03.180 more science
00:13:04.060 and more science.
00:13:05.540 So the women
00:13:05.840 started getting louder.
00:13:07.100 The women have started
00:13:07.820 getting angrier.
00:13:10.260 And there was a group
00:13:12.220 of us trying so hard
00:13:13.660 to get a seat at the table
00:13:14.840 and we couldn't.
00:13:17.040 And then CPA Women,
00:13:18.280 which is the,
00:13:18.820 the Cycling Professional
00:13:19.840 Association for Women,
00:13:21.260 the recognized
00:13:21.940 governing body,
00:13:22.800 uh,
00:13:23.680 that the International
00:13:24.440 Cycling Union
00:13:25.240 recognizes,
00:13:26.580 they wouldn't even
00:13:27.460 give them a voice.
00:13:28.500 And so they,
00:13:29.600 they did a survey,
00:13:30.980 CPA Women did a survey
00:13:32.240 of just pro-women.
00:13:34.100 And 93% said,
00:13:36.320 no,
00:13:36.540 they don't want
00:13:37.620 transgender women
00:13:38.320 in their sport.
00:13:38.980 We put that forth
00:13:40.140 to the International
00:13:40.980 Cycling Union
00:13:41.920 and they came back
00:13:43.360 and they said,
00:13:43.820 well,
00:13:44.660 um,
00:13:45.440 we're not going
00:13:46.080 to really look at that
00:13:46.940 because that's just
00:13:47.620 based on feelings,
00:13:48.800 not on science.
00:13:49.840 that's what I've been
00:13:51.120 on.
00:13:51.480 That's all the funniest
00:13:52.600 thing I've ever heard.
00:13:54.160 Yeah.
00:13:54.720 Oh,
00:13:55.240 but only without the
00:13:56.140 feelings of men,
00:13:57.600 you allow them to
00:13:58.620 compete with women,
00:13:59.400 but you,
00:13:59.860 you can't access
00:14:00.880 the feelings of the women
00:14:02.080 or you can't take
00:14:04.020 that into account.
00:14:05.000 And so then,
00:14:06.120 um,
00:14:06.760 from there,
00:14:07.560 we,
00:14:09.660 we kind of doubled
00:14:10.660 down again,
00:14:11.360 trying to fight.
00:14:12.260 And so then we put
00:14:13.060 forth the science
00:14:13.980 to all of the
00:14:14.920 professional cycling women.
00:14:16.940 And then they said,
00:14:18.280 we were transphobic
00:14:19.680 and bigots
00:14:20.340 for trying to
00:14:21.300 change their mind
00:14:22.220 by showing them
00:14:22.880 the science.
00:14:23.460 It was like,
00:14:23.900 you just couldn't win.
00:14:25.260 And we kept exposing
00:14:26.460 the hypocrisy of this.
00:14:29.020 And so when we called
00:14:29.780 for the protest,
00:14:31.020 a couple days later,
00:14:32.660 the International
00:14:33.220 Cycling Union said,
00:14:34.380 well,
00:14:34.560 maybe we should
00:14:35.680 rethink this.
00:14:37.600 And then I knew
00:14:38.520 that they were serious
00:14:39.360 when they brought in
00:14:40.160 world athletics
00:14:41.120 to argue
00:14:42.220 the science behind it.
00:14:44.440 And,
00:14:44.960 and I think
00:14:45.540 I think it was
00:14:46.880 the social pressure
00:14:48.100 combined with
00:14:49.900 the science
00:14:50.440 versus when this
00:14:51.180 first got passed,
00:14:52.320 it was social pressure
00:14:53.800 of the ideology
00:14:54.760 and the politics.
00:14:56.640 But I,
00:14:57.680 I think we have
00:14:58.500 firm footing.
00:14:59.420 I don't think
00:14:59.820 that we could,
00:15:00.700 that we should
00:15:01.280 rest on our laurels
00:15:03.100 and not continue
00:15:03.740 to fight for this.
00:15:04.580 But we now have
00:15:05.280 the science behind us
00:15:06.640 plus women
00:15:08.220 that are feeling
00:15:08.880 empowered to start
00:15:09.960 speaking up.
00:15:10.700 And so,
00:15:12.020 I,
00:15:12.280 I hope this doesn't
00:15:13.160 get changed back.
00:15:13.980 We know how rules are.
00:15:14.780 They can get changed.
00:15:15.660 Right.
00:15:16.520 Right.
00:15:17.420 Right.
00:15:17.780 Well,
00:15:18.480 and of course,
00:15:19.660 world athletics
00:15:20.320 is the international
00:15:21.120 governing body
00:15:21.820 of track and field,
00:15:22.940 which has taken
00:15:23.880 the same approach.
00:15:24.780 And so now UCI
00:15:25.960 has essentially
00:15:26.740 followed that
00:15:27.380 of world athletics
00:15:28.240 and FINA,
00:15:29.800 which is the
00:15:30.220 governing body
00:15:30.760 of swimming.
00:15:31.200 So,
00:15:31.760 so we're seeing
00:15:32.500 more and more
00:15:33.180 governing bodies
00:15:34.100 faced to,
00:15:35.220 to people like yourself
00:15:36.400 take this,
00:15:37.780 this approach,
00:15:38.440 which is great.
00:15:39.300 Um,
00:15:39.560 they're,
00:15:39.800 they're,
00:15:40.440 it's the bold
00:15:41.220 first step
00:15:41.820 to prioritize
00:15:42.440 fairness in women's
00:15:43.780 sports and sports
00:15:44.740 in general,
00:15:45.180 not just women's
00:15:45.820 sports,
00:15:46.120 fairness in sports,
00:15:46.900 which is what
00:15:47.360 the foundation
00:15:48.040 of sports lies in.
00:15:49.640 but I personally
00:15:51.440 believe there's
00:15:51.880 some caveats
00:15:52.580 to,
00:15:53.560 to these guidelines.
00:15:54.780 Um,
00:15:55.220 at least in,
00:15:55.900 in regards to FINA,
00:15:57.900 um,
00:15:58.120 which is again,
00:15:58.640 swimming,
00:15:59.800 they left it open
00:16:00.640 to if you've
00:16:01.180 transitioned by the
00:16:02.080 age of 12,
00:16:03.780 essentially the guidelines
00:16:04.960 are if you've gone
00:16:05.620 through male puberty,
00:16:06.540 you can't compete
00:16:07.260 with women.
00:16:08.160 Um,
00:16:08.440 but it's leaving it
00:16:09.960 up to interpretation
00:16:10.800 that if you have
00:16:11.640 transitioned by the
00:16:12.720 age of 12
00:16:13.300 or through puberty,
00:16:14.160 then you can
00:16:15.440 compete against women.
00:16:17.360 Um,
00:16:17.720 even having
00:16:20.140 transitioned by
00:16:21.520 the age of 12,
00:16:22.500 men still have
00:16:24.140 advantages that,
00:16:25.380 that won't be
00:16:26.080 mitigated.
00:16:27.060 Um,
00:16:27.580 so can you talk
00:16:28.560 about those
00:16:29.020 advantages in cycling?
00:16:30.360 Just,
00:16:30.700 just the difference
00:16:31.780 between a male
00:16:32.940 cyclist versus a
00:16:33.840 woman cyclist.
00:16:34.740 Um,
00:16:35.220 what does that look
00:16:35.880 like?
00:16:36.100 Does lung capacity
00:16:37.080 matter?
00:16:37.920 Does,
00:16:38.300 does length?
00:16:39.840 What,
00:16:40.440 what are the main
00:16:40.980 ones in cycling
00:16:41.680 that would make
00:16:42.880 a big difference?
00:16:44.360 You know,
00:16:44.580 some of the main
00:16:45.320 ones in cycling
00:16:46.180 that you see is
00:16:46.960 just like,
00:16:47.360 say having a
00:16:48.020 longer femur,
00:16:49.700 uh,
00:16:50.580 the,
00:16:51.000 the amount of
00:16:51.560 hemoglobin that
00:16:52.580 you can carry
00:16:53.160 because it's,
00:16:53.800 it's an endurance
00:16:54.700 sport.
00:16:55.220 I mean,
00:16:55.600 when you get in
00:16:57.120 these endurance
00:16:57.860 and,
00:16:58.620 and you're pushing
00:16:59.560 it to the utmost
00:17:00.280 level,
00:17:00.740 if you have a
00:17:01.500 bigger heart,
00:17:02.220 you could pump
00:17:03.340 that much more
00:17:03.960 oxygen.
00:17:04.380 If you have a
00:17:04.980 bigger VO2
00:17:05.920 capacity,
00:17:07.480 pump that much
00:17:08.220 more oxygen.
00:17:09.020 I mean,
00:17:09.260 the advantage,
00:17:09.980 there's a reason
00:17:11.500 that there's no
00:17:12.120 women in men's
00:17:13.040 sports.
00:17:14.500 Right?
00:17:14.700 I competed
00:17:16.960 with the men
00:17:17.600 all the time.
00:17:18.320 So let's compare
00:17:19.260 apples and apples,
00:17:20.180 right?
00:17:20.440 I am,
00:17:21.520 or was,
00:17:22.780 an elite women,
00:17:23.940 woman in my field.
00:17:26.040 And I would race
00:17:27.160 with the pro
00:17:27.700 one,
00:17:28.080 two,
00:17:28.300 three men
00:17:28.800 all the time.
00:17:30.580 And I could hang
00:17:31.960 in the field
00:17:32.460 because there,
00:17:33.600 there's a lot
00:17:34.040 of drafting going
00:17:34.900 on.
00:17:35.460 If I was,
00:17:36.260 you know,
00:17:36.540 very,
00:17:37.240 very smart about
00:17:38.380 it,
00:17:38.640 I could make
00:17:39.140 an attack here
00:17:39.880 and there
00:17:40.260 and hopefully
00:17:40.780 get in
00:17:41.400 with another
00:17:42.760 men's group
00:17:43.480 that I could,
00:17:44.260 you know,
00:17:44.540 save myself
00:17:45.360 and be in
00:17:46.140 the peloton
00:17:46.780 and try to
00:17:47.320 save myself.
00:17:48.300 But when it
00:17:49.000 came to a jump,
00:17:49.860 when it came
00:17:50.260 to a sprint,
00:17:51.100 anything with
00:17:51.600 power,
00:17:53.040 there was no
00:17:53.540 way.
00:17:53.900 They're just
00:17:54.240 gone.
00:17:54.720 This is where
00:17:55.160 they have
00:17:55.540 the 45%
00:17:56.740 advantage.
00:17:57.680 When it
00:17:58.200 comes to
00:17:58.600 endurance,
00:17:59.380 you know,
00:17:59.600 maybe they
00:17:59.980 have a
00:18:01.140 10%
00:18:01.800 advantage,
00:18:02.320 but you
00:18:02.900 combine
00:18:03.360 endurance
00:18:03.860 with the
00:18:04.440 amount of
00:18:04.780 power,
00:18:05.340 the jump,
00:18:05.960 the speed,
00:18:07.360 there's just
00:18:08.020 no way.
00:18:08.540 You come to
00:18:09.040 a climb,
00:18:10.140 they're gone.
00:18:11.400 And so I
00:18:12.760 spent 10
00:18:13.380 years racing
00:18:14.220 with the
00:18:14.620 men because
00:18:15.260 we didn't
00:18:15.920 have a lot
00:18:16.580 of women's
00:18:17.780 racing hadn't
00:18:18.480 really taken
00:18:19.260 off yet.
00:18:19.780 There wasn't
00:18:20.180 a lot of
00:18:20.820 events and
00:18:21.460 there was a
00:18:21.800 lot,
00:18:22.180 there were
00:18:22.360 some good
00:18:22.660 events,
00:18:23.100 but there
00:18:23.420 was a lot
00:18:23.860 of gaps.
00:18:24.500 And so I
00:18:24.980 raced with
00:18:25.380 the men
00:18:25.680 all the
00:18:26.020 time.
00:18:26.860 I never
00:18:27.240 would have
00:18:27.540 made a
00:18:27.820 national
00:18:28.140 team.
00:18:29.040 I never
00:18:29.360 would have
00:18:29.660 made a
00:18:29.940 pro team.
00:18:31.620 You know,
00:18:31.920 the only
00:18:32.360 reason why
00:18:32.960 I was there
00:18:33.560 was because
00:18:34.000 I was
00:18:34.420 considered a
00:18:35.380 category one
00:18:36.300 pro woman
00:18:38.000 and I could
00:18:38.800 race in that
00:18:39.360 field,
00:18:39.740 but I never
00:18:40.240 had a chance
00:18:40.880 of winning
00:18:42.220 something.
00:18:44.760 And so
00:18:45.220 like I said,
00:18:45.700 let's compare
00:18:46.160 apples and
00:18:46.720 apples and
00:18:47.200 that's just
00:18:47.580 me racing
00:18:48.100 with the
00:18:48.400 men at
00:18:48.640 the national
00:18:49.060 level.
00:18:49.860 I haven't
00:18:50.480 even gotten
00:18:50.840 to the
00:18:51.140 international
00:18:51.560 level.
00:18:53.300 Never
00:18:53.700 would have
00:18:53.960 made it.
00:18:55.000 Right.
00:18:56.020 And you
00:18:56.300 could go
00:18:58.160 ahead.
00:18:58.380 Sorry.
00:18:59.100 I was just
00:18:59.420 going to say,
00:18:59.780 you know,
00:18:59.960 something else
00:19:00.540 that I think
00:19:01.220 is interesting
00:19:01.700 about cycling,
00:19:02.500 which isn't
00:19:03.200 the case for
00:19:03.760 a lot of
00:19:04.140 sports,
00:19:05.400 and it's a
00:19:06.380 different variable
00:19:07.160 to think
00:19:07.660 about,
00:19:08.800 is the
00:19:09.680 effects on
00:19:10.220 prize money
00:19:10.920 and how
00:19:12.500 women who
00:19:13.600 rightfully
00:19:14.660 earn prize
00:19:16.040 money,
00:19:16.380 this is their
00:19:16.840 job,
00:19:17.240 it's their
00:19:17.580 income to
00:19:18.160 win these
00:19:18.560 races and
00:19:19.360 that's what
00:19:20.040 feeds their
00:19:20.440 family,
00:19:20.880 right?
00:19:21.680 We're seeing
00:19:22.160 prize money
00:19:22.920 come into play
00:19:24.080 here.
00:19:24.680 And again,
00:19:24.980 this isn't
00:19:25.360 something we
00:19:25.840 dealt with in
00:19:26.320 swimming.
00:19:26.640 There's not a
00:19:27.060 lot of
00:19:27.440 opportunity for
00:19:28.480 professional
00:19:29.080 swimming outside
00:19:30.040 of making the
00:19:31.100 Olympic team.
00:19:32.400 But there is
00:19:33.420 in cycling.
00:19:34.780 And so you
00:19:35.160 mentioned Austin
00:19:35.760 Killips earlier
00:19:36.460 and how he was
00:19:37.600 kind of a big
00:19:38.220 factor in
00:19:38.940 understanding and
00:19:40.140 changing with
00:19:41.840 the UCI's
00:19:42.960 guidelines.
00:19:45.020 Can you talk
00:19:45.940 about the
00:19:46.800 prize-winning
00:19:47.280 aspect of it
00:19:48.020 and why that's
00:19:48.520 important and
00:19:50.080 how Austin
00:19:51.480 Killips has
00:19:52.060 benefited from
00:19:52.740 this?
00:19:54.100 Oh, in
00:19:54.880 talking to the
00:19:55.640 women that
00:19:56.580 were competing,
00:19:57.520 they were
00:19:57.840 talking about
00:19:58.360 Austin got all
00:19:59.340 of the best
00:19:59.780 bikes and all
00:20:00.480 of the sponsorship
00:20:01.120 and he got
00:20:01.780 everything handed
00:20:03.640 to him because
00:20:04.460 he's the most
00:20:05.560 marginalized.
00:20:06.200 And there's a
00:20:07.400 lot of virtue
00:20:08.000 signaling of
00:20:08.860 let's give to
00:20:10.120 Austin because
00:20:10.780 we look really,
00:20:11.700 really good.
00:20:12.160 And the women
00:20:12.600 suffered in that
00:20:14.580 area as well.
00:20:16.320 And then you
00:20:16.680 get into the
00:20:17.500 prize lists and
00:20:18.420 money.
00:20:19.580 Austin's cleaning
00:20:20.360 up and all of
00:20:21.060 those things and
00:20:21.720 those are more
00:20:22.260 opportunities taken
00:20:23.340 away from women.
00:20:24.120 So he's already
00:20:25.560 getting sponsorship
00:20:26.840 and bikes and
00:20:27.960 making a lot of
00:20:28.640 money.
00:20:29.080 And the 90% of
00:20:30.880 the women that I
00:20:32.920 know that are
00:20:33.460 racing, are racing
00:20:34.260 on nothing to
00:20:35.820 maybe $2,000 a
00:20:37.280 month that they
00:20:37.740 get from their
00:20:38.300 sponsors.
00:20:39.500 I mean, they're
00:20:40.140 really, they're
00:20:41.440 racing for the
00:20:42.440 love of it.
00:20:44.280 Just the other
00:20:45.080 day, like we
00:20:45.720 were at the
00:20:46.860 Boisey Twilight
00:20:47.800 Criterium and
00:20:48.580 there's a
00:20:48.940 transgender woman
00:20:49.680 in there.
00:20:51.320 They didn't win
00:20:52.140 the race, but
00:20:53.740 there was $1,000
00:20:55.020 premium and they
00:20:56.880 took it.
00:20:58.620 And it was like,
00:20:59.720 here you go
00:21:00.700 again.
00:21:01.520 You know, another
00:21:02.140 opportunity.
00:21:02.560 And so the
00:21:03.700 theft just doesn't
00:21:04.480 happen with the
00:21:05.160 prize money.
00:21:05.780 Within the races
00:21:06.400 they have, let me
00:21:07.140 back up.
00:21:07.860 So what a
00:21:08.180 premium is, is
00:21:08.900 like say during a
00:21:09.760 criterium, you'll
00:21:11.440 have a criterium is
00:21:12.720 a one mile lap, but
00:21:14.380 you'll race for like
00:21:15.240 40, 50 miles.
00:21:16.800 And within that
00:21:17.800 race, there'll be
00:21:18.500 prize money, you
00:21:20.140 know, $50, $100,
00:21:22.100 $1,000, depending
00:21:23.820 on what the sponsor
00:21:24.640 wants to get in.
00:21:25.560 And the big
00:21:26.200 creams were all
00:21:27.800 taken by the
00:21:28.340 transgender women and
00:21:29.360 then they left over
00:21:30.100 the small preams for
00:21:31.120 the women.
00:21:31.440 And, you know,
00:21:32.180 can't look like
00:21:32.760 you're taking too
00:21:34.140 much.
00:21:35.080 But it was just so
00:21:36.600 clear, and this was
00:21:38.300 Jenna Lingwood, who
00:21:39.940 has won women's
00:21:40.960 event after women's
00:21:41.980 event all the time
00:21:43.500 and, and you know
00:21:45.460 when they're soft
00:21:46.040 pedaling, when they're
00:21:47.360 not really, and
00:21:48.060 this is part of the
00:21:49.120 deception of, well,
00:21:50.520 they don't win all
00:21:51.400 the time.
00:21:51.920 Well, one of the
00:21:52.600 audience is, dopers
00:21:54.100 don't win all the
00:21:54.840 time either in bike
00:21:56.020 racing because it's a
00:21:58.140 different dynamic.
00:21:58.880 There is team
00:21:59.940 tactics that go on
00:22:01.860 and opportunities,
00:22:02.660 whereas within like
00:22:04.020 swimming or running,
00:22:05.260 we call it the race
00:22:06.680 of truth in cycling.
00:22:07.760 If you just race
00:22:08.620 against the clock,
00:22:09.400 it's the race of
00:22:10.100 truth.
00:22:10.420 It's just you
00:22:10.940 against the clock.
00:22:12.320 Yeah.
00:22:12.560 And see that running
00:22:13.400 and you see that in
00:22:14.480 swimming.
00:22:15.020 But in cycling, it
00:22:16.140 has a whole other
00:22:16.920 dynamic.
00:22:17.380 Like you could look
00:22:18.120 at Lance Armstrong,
00:22:19.320 the strongest rider
00:22:20.980 out there, and we
00:22:22.220 know his doping
00:22:23.060 regime.
00:22:23.420 and he didn't
00:22:25.360 win every race.
00:22:26.380 He won very few
00:22:28.460 races, but he
00:22:30.140 dominated everybody.
00:22:32.680 Right.
00:22:33.560 And so this with
00:22:35.380 Leotanas, if you
00:22:37.140 know anything about
00:22:37.960 swimming, and again,
00:22:39.180 I don't expect people
00:22:40.080 to, right?
00:22:41.120 But the way that he
00:22:42.380 split his races is not
00:22:46.020 indicative of effort.
00:22:47.320 Um, he won an
00:22:49.780 actual title on the
00:22:50.700 first day, the second
00:22:51.580 day, then placed
00:22:52.460 fifth, and then the
00:22:53.800 last place, or the
00:22:54.860 last day placed eighth
00:22:55.960 in the 100 freestyle.
00:22:57.180 And it was entirely
00:22:58.280 strategic.
00:22:59.200 And I'm not one to
00:22:59.940 speculate.
00:23:00.880 I'm not one to, but
00:23:02.380 I am for certain.
00:23:04.840 Just based off
00:23:05.580 watching these races,
00:23:07.020 you can see how he's
00:23:08.100 not kicking as hard
00:23:08.960 as we were.
00:23:09.820 You can see how his
00:23:10.940 flip turns were,
00:23:12.520 were visibly different.
00:23:14.260 And you don't have to
00:23:15.020 be as forward to see
00:23:15.840 these things, but it
00:23:16.700 communicates the
00:23:17.360 message that trans
00:23:18.200 women can win, but
00:23:19.800 not dominate.
00:23:21.580 Right.
00:23:22.080 And, and I call it,
00:23:22.900 you know, a slight
00:23:23.820 of hand that they, I
00:23:26.020 mean, heck, we did
00:23:27.360 this all the time in
00:23:28.240 racing.
00:23:28.660 Look a little bit
00:23:29.240 weak here, look a
00:23:30.160 little bit weak there.
00:23:31.520 And then your
00:23:32.220 competitor thinks that
00:23:33.200 you don't really have
00:23:34.000 it.
00:23:35.300 And then you have it.
00:23:36.520 It's a tactic that we
00:23:37.680 use in sports.
00:23:38.960 Right.
00:23:39.380 And, and if you have
00:23:40.540 a trained eye and you
00:23:41.620 know what you're
00:23:42.180 looking at, you can see
00:23:44.080 it.
00:23:44.340 So like a tour of
00:23:45.180 Gila watching Austin
00:23:46.260 Killips, um, watching
00:23:48.480 them ride, you can tell
00:23:49.880 they're not breathing as
00:23:50.900 hard.
00:23:51.200 You can tell they're
00:23:51.900 soft pedaling it.
00:23:52.940 They're just winning by
00:23:54.400 just enough to win, but
00:23:56.040 they can't dominate too
00:23:58.160 much.
00:23:58.620 And, and, and we do this
00:24:00.900 all the time.
00:24:02.080 And Austin Killips, not
00:24:03.080 only is he taking a
00:24:03.860 bridesmaid, not only is
00:24:05.740 he, he slacking, he
00:24:09.160 also, I've seen a video
00:24:10.520 of him pushing a woman
00:24:12.360 off her bike.
00:24:13.840 It, it, I guess, helps to
00:24:15.480 slow her down.
00:24:16.580 I don't know, but I've
00:24:17.700 seen this video of him
00:24:19.620 visibly and, and
00:24:21.500 blatantly pushing a woman
00:24:23.340 off her bike when, when
00:24:24.340 coming around a tour.
00:24:25.260 I, I am, I am still
00:24:28.640 stunned.
00:24:30.820 If a woman had done
00:24:32.140 that to another woman, if
00:24:33.240 a man had done that to
00:24:34.200 another man, every
00:24:35.700 official out there has
00:24:36.820 told me it's an automatic
00:24:38.840 disqualification.
00:24:40.920 But it shows again, once
00:24:42.600 the preference that are
00:24:43.540 going to the transgender
00:24:44.440 women in the sport, no
00:24:46.620 official wanted to touch
00:24:47.800 it because they were going
00:24:48.840 to get labeled as
00:24:49.720 transphobic.
00:24:50.540 And then they had maybe
00:24:52.440 some sanctions coming at
00:24:53.800 them.
00:24:54.080 So it was like, once
00:24:54.700 again, it's like the
00:24:56.260 transgender women get to
00:24:57.320 operate under their, their
00:24:59.440 own set of rules.
00:25:00.700 They get to put, Austin
00:25:02.220 Phillips didn't push Hannah
00:25:03.580 once.
00:25:05.400 He pushed her three times.
00:25:08.460 And this resulted in the
00:25:09.640 end of her career, which
00:25:11.280 braced my part as an
00:25:12.720 athlete, knowing the value
00:25:14.720 of sports, knowing again,
00:25:16.160 how much you put into it.
00:25:17.680 I remember reading a quote
00:25:18.720 from her after this, her
00:25:19.780 names, Hannah Arnsman.
00:25:22.360 After she was flanked on
00:25:25.180 either side, I believe she
00:25:26.960 placed fourth and on, and
00:25:28.400 third place and fifth place
00:25:30.360 was men and of course the
00:25:32.120 women's category, she lost
00:25:34.000 her love entirely for
00:25:35.480 cycling and it resulted in
00:25:37.380 her retiring.
00:25:38.800 And that broke, that broke
00:25:40.280 me.
00:25:40.960 I felt so bad as she, she
00:25:42.520 further on went with her
00:25:43.940 quote saying she went over
00:25:45.000 to her, her mother and her
00:25:46.600 sister who on the sidelines
00:25:47.960 who were crying tears for
00:25:49.500 her, it's just utterly
00:25:52.140 heartbreaking.
00:25:52.980 And again, you're right, it's
00:25:53.900 affecting how people do
00:25:54.900 their jobs.
00:25:55.500 It's affecting how coaches,
00:25:57.060 how coaches protect their
00:25:59.020 athletes.
00:25:59.480 It's affecting how officials,
00:26:01.020 official, it's affecting how
00:26:02.420 athletic directors
00:26:03.660 administrate things because
00:26:05.020 they are scared.
00:26:06.360 They're scared of the name
00:26:07.280 calling.
00:26:07.660 They're scared of the labels.
00:26:08.880 They're scared of this cancel
00:26:09.900 culture that we live in.
00:26:11.960 Um, but does it make someone
00:26:14.040 transphobic or hateful or a
00:26:16.240 bigot to acknowledge that
00:26:18.320 there are two sexes and to
00:26:19.640 acknowledge that the sex, that
00:26:21.040 the sexes are different on a
00:26:22.820 biological, chromosomal level
00:26:25.120 that make men on average
00:26:26.940 advantageous when it comes to
00:26:28.720 something that requires
00:26:29.740 athleticism or, or sheer
00:26:31.160 strength?
00:26:31.600 Is that really transphobic?
00:26:33.640 No, that, that's a believing
00:26:35.260 biology.
00:26:36.180 It's not bigotry.
00:26:37.900 Well, I mean, here, here's a,
00:26:39.700 I think you can see this
00:26:40.720 comparison.
00:26:41.260 Like when I quit cycling, the
00:26:43.920 doping got to be too much
00:26:46.060 and, and I was removed because
00:26:50.040 I wouldn't dope.
00:26:51.520 And because I hated the doping
00:26:53.420 and I spoke out about the
00:26:54.640 doping, does that make me
00:26:55.840 doping phobic?
00:26:58.980 It means that it's not fair and
00:27:01.980 it's a legitimate complaint.
00:27:04.440 women deserve to have equal
00:27:08.420 opportunities.
00:27:09.680 You know, that the CEDAW Act
00:27:11.600 protects us.
00:27:12.780 Women, women get equal
00:27:13.920 opportunities in life.
00:27:16.080 And this, this is, this is so
00:27:18.580 easy because it's sports.
00:27:21.440 We all know that the biology is
00:27:23.300 different.
00:27:24.220 I mean, we all figured it out
00:27:25.740 before kindergarten.
00:27:26.860 There's boys and there's girls.
00:27:28.960 And studies show that if young
00:27:31.140 girls are not given a sex
00:27:32.500 separated sport, they can
00:27:34.420 walk away.
00:27:35.920 So even allowing young boys in
00:27:38.220 there, I mean, I know that we
00:27:40.200 can have co-ed and stuff like,
00:27:41.860 you know, that up to a certain
00:27:42.900 point, but with little girls need
00:27:44.500 to have sex separated in sports
00:27:45.960 because we aren't it.
00:27:48.420 And to, and to take that away
00:27:50.320 from us is a, it's a
00:27:53.260 discrimination.
00:27:53.900 And thankfully, most people see the
00:27:56.620 discrimination, but we're also
00:27:59.440 seeing the continued subjugation of
00:28:04.280 women to allow this men's rights.
00:28:07.500 And that's not, I've been calling it
00:28:08.880 for a year.
00:28:09.280 It's a men's rights movement to say,
00:28:12.240 we demand to have equal access to
00:28:15.280 women's space spaces and to, to take
00:28:18.900 women out of those spaces.
00:28:20.020 You can't tell me that doesn't come
00:28:21.480 from anywhere but misogyny.
00:28:26.320 I think the term doping phobic,
00:28:28.740 doping phobia is, if you apply this
00:28:32.440 to any classification of which sports
00:28:34.620 are categorized, like let's say in
00:28:36.580 boxing, weight classes, does it make
00:28:40.260 me fat phobic because I don't think a
00:28:42.160 heavyweight should go against the
00:28:43.380 featherweight?
00:28:44.240 Does it make me age phobic to think
00:28:47.180 that an 18 and under shouldn't play
00:28:48.680 against a 12 and under?
00:28:49.640 No, it does not make me.
00:28:51.980 No.
00:28:52.720 And, and suddenly we're saying, hey,
00:28:54.040 it's really not fair for men to be
00:28:55.420 in there and we're, and we're
00:28:56.720 transphobic?
00:28:57.900 Yeah.
00:28:58.560 We're just, we're just asking for
00:28:59.940 fairness.
00:29:00.440 And if I was trying to do some lame
00:29:02.360 comparison of like, okay, my age,
00:29:05.480 about the only person I'd be
00:29:06.700 competitive against now is maybe
00:29:08.160 about a 10 year old.
00:29:09.060 But it's like, so if my gender
00:29:18.080 identity is that I'm, I'm infantile
00:29:20.380 at times, my humor is, you know, um,
00:29:23.580 just don't get to identify where you
00:29:26.460 want to be.
00:29:27.020 There's a reason why we have
00:29:28.500 classifications and under that
00:29:30.200 categories is to ensure fairness.
00:29:34.060 Right?
00:29:34.620 So it's like, like, let's just take
00:29:35.960 women's cycling or just women in
00:29:37.960 general.
00:29:38.840 And then underneath that, you
00:29:41.060 have all of these under women, you
00:29:43.340 have age classification and you
00:29:46.120 have potentially, we won't do
00:29:47.980 cycling, but like weight
00:29:48.940 classification.
00:29:49.540 And even within those weights, um,
00:29:52.480 or ages.
00:29:54.000 And so we have like, you know, 10 to
00:29:56.840 14, and then you have under 23, and
00:29:59.620 then you have elite women, and then
00:30:01.260 you have veteran women, and you have
00:30:03.320 masters women.
00:30:05.280 And, and underneath every single one
00:30:07.920 of those categories, you can be, uh,
00:30:10.420 category one, category two, category
00:30:12.580 three, four, five.
00:30:14.140 There are so many different categories
00:30:17.340 available for fairness.
00:30:21.160 This is why we have the age and weight
00:30:23.100 and all the different classifications.
00:30:24.800 Like, so, okay, so if you are, um, in
00:30:27.120 the prime of your career, you're a 20 to
00:30:29.240 a 30 year old woman, and even then you
00:30:31.740 have to start off at category five and
00:30:33.460 work your way up to being pro.
00:30:35.120 And you have that within every single
00:30:37.860 category of sports in cycling.
00:30:41.160 And so to suddenly just take one whole
00:30:45.020 classification of transgender women and
00:30:47.320 then just dump them into the women is
00:30:49.940 the absolute laziest way to go.
00:30:54.520 If they really truly believe that
00:30:57.640 transgender women believe should be in
00:31:00.460 women's sports, then put out the effort to
00:31:03.360 develop that classification, to develop
00:31:05.620 the races and to develop it, but just
00:31:08.780 don't take something that women have
00:31:10.940 worked for, for our whole lives, and then
00:31:14.860 just throw everybody in it with, with
00:31:18.120 zero regards to the women and their
00:31:21.300 thoughts and their feelings and their
00:31:22.720 emotions.
00:31:23.280 I mean, back, back to the misogyny of this
00:31:25.120 is just over the top.
00:31:27.500 Right.
00:31:27.880 And that's, it is just that is utter
00:31:30.040 misogyny.
00:31:30.360 Oh, and it doesn't take a feminist to
00:31:32.660 see it.
00:31:33.660 Um, you mentioned doping a couple of
00:31:35.940 times and I know recently you just
00:31:38.000 went, um, and did a podcast or an
00:31:39.960 interview style format with Lance
00:31:42.040 Armstrong.
00:31:43.220 I thought this was incredibly
00:31:44.740 interesting.
00:31:45.340 I thought you did an incredible job.
00:31:47.580 Um, can you talk about that kind of what
00:31:50.300 he's uncovering and the perspective you
00:31:53.400 guys shared together?
00:31:54.240 Yeah, he, as, as I watched his other
00:31:57.400 interviews, it become, it became very
00:32:00.500 clear to me that this was something that
00:32:02.280 he wanted to cover.
00:32:03.720 He, he felt like he'd been canceled so
00:32:05.620 many times you can't cancel him anymore.
00:32:07.440 And I had to, you know, and, and I felt
00:32:10.020 like he was a good person to speak about
00:32:11.740 this because if anybody knows about
00:32:14.560 cheating, and this is not a left-handed
00:32:16.840 slight, if anybody knows about cheating
00:32:19.640 and unfair advantage and how to get there,
00:32:21.860 it would be Lance.
00:32:23.800 And this is why I think that it was
00:32:25.700 appropriate that he spoke up and, uh,
00:32:28.320 thing was like, even Lance has the moral
00:32:31.160 compass to say, this is wrong.
00:32:35.180 I may dope against all of my peers,
00:32:38.300 but this is wrong.
00:32:41.200 And even, uh, Caitlyn Jenner that he
00:32:43.240 interviewed said, how can these men with
00:32:45.640 gender dysphoria stand for a woman's
00:32:48.380 podium and actually feel good about
00:32:51.340 themselves?
00:32:52.620 What type of level of misogyny did it,
00:32:56.040 does it take?
00:32:57.760 Caitlyn Jenner didn't call it misogyny.
00:32:59.800 I will.
00:33:00.540 What type of misogyny does it take to
00:33:03.880 stand on a woman's podium and actually
00:33:05.960 feel like you deserve that?
00:33:08.740 That, it goes, it goes back to the
00:33:10.440 power trip stuff.
00:33:11.900 Um, and, but, but anyway, but back to
00:33:15.740 Lance, as I was watching him do the
00:33:17.500 interviews, I saw somebody that had great
00:33:19.900 intentions to, to talk about both sides of
00:33:24.020 this.
00:33:24.280 But what I also saw was that he was very
00:33:26.900 new to the discussion and missed out on a
00:33:29.960 lot of the nuances and that he was being
00:33:32.900 lying to, but didn't even know that he was
00:33:35.080 being lied to.
00:33:35.840 And that reminded me of myself when I first
00:33:38.140 started, that I believe the lies, I believe
00:33:40.960 the statistics because that's what the media
00:33:43.140 kept putting out there.
00:33:44.820 There was such a push by the media to
00:33:47.260 misinform people.
00:33:49.760 And, and I saw this with Lance was that he
00:33:52.560 didn't really understand all the nuances
00:33:54.860 like you and I would now that we've been
00:33:57.700 at this for years and, or we've experienced
00:34:00.540 this.
00:34:01.780 And so this is where I asked him is like, you
00:34:05.100 were talking about women's sports.
00:34:08.440 You need to have a woman athlete on there to
00:34:11.540 discuss this.
00:34:12.980 And so it was kind of scary for me to going,
00:34:15.600 you know, going on there.
00:34:16.340 Cause I knew I'd get a lot of, you know, you
00:34:17.720 just say Lance Armstrong and you get a lot of
00:34:19.520 vitriol, but I saw a person trying to, to
00:34:24.000 have a fair and balanced discussion.
00:34:26.040 I think what he could, he couldn't get over
00:34:27.920 the vitriol.
00:34:28.580 He said when he was exposed, when, when he
00:34:33.040 confessed to his cheating, he said he did not
00:34:36.320 even get the shade then that he got asking for
00:34:40.260 fairness for women's sports.
00:34:42.220 And I thought that was absolutely, I mean, you
00:34:44.640 see how much shade is thrown at Lance Armstrong
00:34:46.760 when, when he, when he confessed that he was
00:34:49.540 doping and he said, this was, this was worse.
00:34:52.780 And I said, this is what we've been dealing
00:34:54.420 with.
00:34:55.440 Absolutely.
00:34:56.160 It's worse.
00:34:57.000 It's more vengeful.
00:34:58.900 It's more hateful.
00:35:00.040 It's more violent.
00:35:01.100 It's more personal.
00:35:02.640 I mean, the attacks that, that the opposition
00:35:04.960 has, um, they know what they're doing and
00:35:08.520 and they want to silence us.
00:35:10.160 They want to deter us.
00:35:11.380 And so I appreciate you going on with him and
00:35:13.900 talking with him.
00:35:14.880 I thought it was incredibly valuable perspectives.
00:35:17.740 Um, and I thought that he was able to learn a lot
00:35:20.980 from you and y'all's conversation.
00:35:22.860 Um, wrapping up, I wanted to give you an
00:35:26.180 opportunity to talk about the Inga Thompson
00:35:27.780 Foundation.
00:35:29.020 Um, please, would you, would you be willing to
00:35:31.040 do so?
00:35:31.400 Yeah, so I set up my foundation in 2017
00:35:35.520 thinking that I would be, and I still am doing
00:35:40.840 this, advocating for women, trying to get more
00:35:43.080 media, because if you have more media and the
00:35:45.720 women have more coverage, then more sponsorship
00:35:48.100 comes in.
00:35:49.320 I wanted to start at the top and come down.
00:35:52.860 And at the same time, this is when I really
00:35:56.400 started becoming aware of transgender women in the
00:35:58.960 sport and the impact that it was having.
00:36:02.960 And, and so I do work with women on, on many
00:36:06.620 layers and levels that I don't even know how to
00:36:09.300 go into, but not everything is about, you know,
00:36:13.180 coaching or giving them a bike.
00:36:15.000 There's so much emotional support that needs to
00:36:17.140 go on.
00:36:18.160 Women who have been great and the issues that they
00:36:23.800 have trying to sit on a saddle after they, I mean,
00:36:27.640 these are, these are some of the things that I've
00:36:29.940 taken on, women who are in abusive, um, contracts
00:36:34.800 with sponsors and how to help them get out of
00:36:37.180 this.
00:36:37.640 And, and so the, the foundation helps women in, in
00:36:40.880 many ways, other than just, hey, here's a bike
00:36:44.080 team, let's get on a bike team.
00:36:45.760 And then it kind of turned into this, we realized,
00:36:50.560 many of us realized that women's sports would be
00:36:52.900 gone in 20 years if we didn't tackle this topic
00:36:56.940 first.
00:36:57.940 And so the last few years, you know, the majority
00:37:00.180 of the emphasis has been on protecting women's
00:37:02.580 sports.
00:37:03.480 And then I hope to one day be able to put 100% of
00:37:08.060 my attention back to just, just the women.
00:37:11.640 And all in the meantime, we are grateful for you.
00:37:16.480 We are grateful for your voice.
00:37:17.940 We're grateful how you're advocating for us.
00:37:19.760 You're a megaphone.
00:37:20.460 And, um, you have been a trailblazer.
00:37:23.300 Again, you were ahead of the times.
00:37:25.300 I think a lot of people only became aware of this
00:37:28.580 happening in sports because of the Leah Thomas
00:37:31.220 situation and the national coverage that that got.
00:37:33.780 But you, you have been advocating for this far
00:37:36.060 beyond, um, even myself even knew it existed.
00:37:39.140 So, and likewise, you're taking on the whole Leah
00:37:43.520 Thomas is what really amplified this and around and kind
00:37:48.980 of allowed the rest of us to be heard.
00:37:50.480 Yeah.
00:37:50.580 We may have been speaking longer than you have, but we
00:37:54.460 weren't being heard.
00:37:55.380 And you had the voice that, that was heard because you had
00:38:00.860 that first one-on-one experience of being in the locker
00:38:05.960 rooms and the, and the losses that you suffered where the
00:38:08.960 rest of us are retired.
00:38:10.520 And I call it, you were the first one in the trenches to
00:38:14.100 really get loud.
00:38:14.920 And we so appreciate you.
00:38:17.740 Well, I'm very, um, I imagine we will continue having our
00:38:22.040 arms linked and creating an army of people behind us to do
00:38:25.360 just as we are.
00:38:27.100 Um, so again, thank you.
00:38:28.920 Thank you.
00:38:29.440 Thank you, Inga, for coming on.
00:38:31.720 Oh, thank you for having me.
00:38:34.340 Thanks for joining the Games for Girls podcast.
00:38:37.020 Make sure you check out this podcast at outkick.com or
00:38:40.560 anywhere where you stream your podcasts, Apple, Spotify,
00:38:43.260 whatever that looks like.
00:38:44.740 Um, we look forward to seeing you next week.
00:38:56.140 I'll see you next week.
00:39:01.480 Bye-bye.
00:39:02.560 Bye-bye.
00:39:06.720 Bye-bye.
00:39:07.100 Bye-bye.
00:39:07.260 Bye-bye.
00:39:07.420 Bye-bye.
00:39:07.600 Bye-bye.
00:39:08.160 Bye-bye.
00:39:09.400 Bye-bye.
00:39:10.400 Bye-bye.
00:39:12.100 Bye-bye.
00:39:17.100 Bye-bye.
00:39:17.740 Bye-bye.
00:39:19.180 Bye-bye.
00:39:19.980 Bye-bye.
00:39:20.260 Bye-bye.
00:39:21.020 Bye-bye.
00:39:21.800 Bye-bye.
00:39:22.040 Bye-bye.
00:39:22.960 Bye-bye.