Gaines for Girls with Riley Gaines - RILEY GAINES PODCAST： Inga Thompson's Fight For Fair Women's Sports

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00:00:30.000 Welcome back to the Games for Girls podcast.

00:00:36.840 This week, I am so, so excited to have this guest on.

00:00:40.780 She is a three-time Olympian.

00:00:42.760 She's a three-time world champion.

00:00:44.880 But not only is she a phenomenal athlete,

00:00:47.780 she's a trailblazer for protecting women's sports. 1.00

00:00:50.520 Check out my interview with Inga Thompson.

00:00:53.420 So, Inga, first of all, you are incredible.

00:00:57.360 You are inspiring to me.

00:00:58.660 We just spent some time together down in Knoxville,

00:01:01.460 where we kind of orchestrated this rally alongside some other groups,

00:01:04.580 which was really powerful.

00:01:06.040 And we'll get into how it was powerful in a little bit.

00:01:08.520 But I want you to just start off by sharing your accomplishments,

00:01:12.720 sharing your achievements,

00:01:14.040 and really how you got to the position that you're in now.

00:01:17.160 I originally started off as a runner for 10 years.

00:01:20.340 So I had, boy, I started training, I think, when I was 10 years old.

00:01:24.680 I mean, that's what all of us do to get to the level that we're at,

00:01:29.440 is we start training as children.

00:01:31.360 So I had 10 years as a runner under this amazing coach, Lyle Freeman,

00:01:35.860 was on a running scholarship and was injured.

00:01:39.560 And I picked up a bike, you know, just to try to train,

00:01:43.100 try to keep my fitness.

00:01:44.180 And then I saw on the TV they had the first women's Tour de France ever.

00:01:48.980 They were going to have the first women's Olympic road race ever in bicycling.

00:01:52.780 And I thought, that's what I want to do.

00:01:54.980 Thinking I could just like, at least for the Tour de France,

00:01:57.540 I thought I could just sign up like any runner does.

00:01:59.740 You know, you can just sign up and just go.

00:02:01.520 I mean, absolutely clueless to the, you know, the team dynamic

00:02:04.620 and everything that goes on to be on a team.

00:02:08.080 And anyway, so I started racing my bike.

00:02:10.020 And I think I did five or six races and qualified to go to the Olympic trials.

00:02:13.880 And I'm like, you know, and went to the Olympic trials

00:02:17.420 and I made it on an Olympic team.

00:02:20.080 And I just had this stellar start.

00:02:23.260 And from there, I've been on three Olympic teams

00:02:25.500 and I've got three medals at the world championships

00:02:28.580 and 10 national championships and podium finishes

00:02:33.020 at the Tour de France or the polka dot jersey.

00:02:37.360 I hit my niche.

00:02:40.220 And, you know, I've always kind of said,

00:02:42.140 you've got to have kind of like the perfect storm.

00:02:44.180 You have to have the training, the dedication.

00:02:46.800 You have to have the gift of the physical genetics.

00:02:50.760 And you have to have an incredible work ethic

00:02:53.420 and the ability to suffer.

00:02:56.300 And then you have to find the sport that fits you.

00:02:59.200 And as a runner, I was too tall, too, you know, the list can go on.

00:03:03.160 But you put me on a bike and the fit was perfect.

00:03:06.900 And here I am talking to you.

00:03:11.700 I like how you said suffer.

00:03:13.920 And I don't think a lot of people understand.

00:03:16.120 While, of course, there are benefits to playing sports

00:03:19.180 and the good and most certainly outweighs the bad,

00:03:21.400 it really is suffering.

00:03:22.940 The amount of time and the amount of dedication

00:03:25.080 and the effort and the sacrifices that you have to make

00:03:28.000 to compete at that highest level.

00:03:30.020 And you've been on three Olympic teams.

00:03:32.300 I mean, I don't think people can grasp fully

00:03:35.340 what that suffering really looks like.

00:03:37.960 But you mentioned you're here.

00:03:39.160 You're here now.

00:03:39.780 You're talking to me.

00:03:41.480 Talk about what got you into advocating

00:03:44.140 to really save women's sports

00:03:45.720 because you are a leading voice on this issue.

00:03:50.040 What got me into it, actually, let's step back.

00:03:53.260 You know, I have a lot of transgender friends.

00:03:55.560 And when I first heard of this ruling,

00:03:59.020 I believed the science that we were told.

00:04:02.780 You know, we were told that this was fair

00:04:05.080 and that when they dropped their testosterone level,

00:04:08.540 they became weak.

00:04:09.740 And I believed that lie for a long time.

00:04:14.040 And then I started noticing that the sport

00:04:16.480 was being dominated by men with gender dysphoria.

00:04:20.540 And then I started hearing the women talking about 1.00

00:04:24.940 how frustrating it was.

00:04:26.460 And then I started to watch the bullying

00:04:29.080 of Rachel McKinnon slash Veronica Ivy.

00:04:33.420 And it kind of left my jaw on the ground

00:04:36.680 that there could be this blatant bullying

00:04:39.940 of the women at these races.

00:04:43.360 And it was getting all of this press.

00:04:46.080 And it just seemed like something was so wrong

00:04:49.980 that a bully could get so much press.

00:04:52.120 If that was a woman saying stuff about other women, 1.00

00:04:56.060 they would have been sanctioned.

00:04:57.500 They would have been, you know, penalized.

00:05:00.720 They, and it was like, if you were trans,

00:05:02.940 you could, you can do anything. 0.87

00:05:04.880 You could bully the women. 0.99

00:05:06.020 And it was actually considered to be okay.

00:05:09.980 And I found that to be quite admirable.

00:05:13.100 Yeah.

00:05:13.500 And so I ended up writing a letter

00:05:16.700 to the, to the Olympic committee.

00:05:19.020 And I said, if, if this is so important

00:05:23.540 and including transgender people is so important,

00:05:26.760 and with the amount of transgender people

00:05:28.880 that were, you know, coming and, you know,

00:05:32.880 coming out and declaring who they were

00:05:34.840 and self-IDing, I thought,

00:05:36.820 it's time to build a category for them.

00:05:40.200 And, and I still believe that, you know,

00:05:42.220 if they had started 20 years ago,

00:05:44.100 developing a category for transgender women

00:05:47.000 to compete in, they would have a well-established sport

00:05:50.840 with tons of support.

00:05:53.160 And you wouldn't have these angry women 1.00

00:05:54.840 and you wouldn't have this political divide

00:05:57.420 if they had just done it correctly from the beginning.

00:06:01.820 Right.

00:06:03.600 But here we are.

00:06:04.700 And, and even though the International Cycling Union

00:06:08.040 has changed the rules,

00:06:10.020 now another set of people are really going to be hurt.

00:06:13.800 Transgender people.

00:06:14.700 But now women's sports is protected. 1.00

00:06:16.440 But women suffered for the last 20 years. 0.97

00:06:19.300 And I'm just, I'm very sorry that this rule was ever passed

00:06:22.580 to begin with because of the amount of hate that has gone on,

00:06:27.100 the amount of jobs that have been lost,

00:06:28.900 people that have been vilified, wrongly called transphobia.

00:06:32.740 I mean, this has just been the worst social experiment

00:06:37.000 that has ever happened to people, you know,

00:06:40.320 and, and, you know,

00:06:41.640 and at first it just started off with sports.

00:06:43.580 And then, then I vaguely remember hearing about

00:06:46.040 the bathroom bill thinking,

00:06:48.020 oh, that's not that big of a deal.

00:06:49.660 You know, we have stalls that close,

00:06:52.040 but then it turned into what happened with you

00:06:56.060 in the locker rooms.

00:06:58.040 And once again,

00:06:59.360 just when I thought that I couldn't be more upset,

00:07:01.680 I thought about,

00:07:03.120 I thought about where I was at that age.

00:07:06.080 And, you know,

00:07:07.060 I went into colleges as a virgin,

00:07:10.880 had never been around men,

00:07:12.060 and to think that the first time that I was exposed to a man

00:07:15.660 was against my will in a locker room.

00:07:18.920 Everything seems so benign right at the beginning.

00:07:25.900 And, and it's not benign.

00:07:28.000 And I, the term social experiment that you use,

00:07:32.180 it really is just that.

00:07:34.540 But with us as women and young girls

00:07:37.980 being the collateral damage in this social experiment,

00:07:42.280 it's us who are at Jeopardy,

00:07:43.460 it's our sporting category,

00:07:44.800 it's our safety in our sports,

00:07:46.240 it's our prize money,

00:07:47.220 it's our privacy in the locker rooms.

00:07:49.560 It's only affecting,

00:07:50.960 really, putting us at Jeopardy as women.

00:07:54.160 And so I think that term social experiment

00:07:55.740 is really powerful.

00:07:57.420 You mentioned Veronica Ivey.

00:07:59.160 I, of course,

00:08:00.140 I know who Veronica Ivey is.

00:08:03.580 I have been on some,

00:08:05.060 some different debate radio shows

00:08:07.220 and different things with him.

00:08:08.400 And I, I see him on Twitter.

00:08:10.900 But for those who don't know who this is,

00:08:14.020 would you be willing to kind of share a little

00:08:16.980 about who this person is and what they do,

00:08:20.080 especially in the world of cycling?

00:08:22.460 My first interaction with Rachel McKinnon,

00:08:27.460 Veronica Ivey,

00:08:28.640 was when I had put forth a letter to the Olympic community.

00:08:31.760 And I made it,

00:08:32.720 and I made the letter public.

00:08:34.080 You know, we had, you know,

00:08:36.000 hundreds of signatures from Olympians.

00:08:37.920 And what was shared with me

00:08:41.360 was a, a private chat group

00:08:43.720 that they had somebody,

00:08:44.700 and it was Veronica Ivey

00:08:46.180 instigating.

00:08:48.380 She had a, 0.70

00:08:49.380 she had an army of women behind him, 0.98

00:08:51.820 women, 1.00

00:08:52.520 that were going after the jobs

00:08:55.000 and names,

00:08:57.400 sponsorship,

00:08:58.180 of anybody who had liked my post

00:09:00.640 asking for a third category.

00:09:02.920 And so here's Veronica Ivey

00:09:05.680 asking these people

00:09:07.060 to go after their jobs,

00:09:08.420 asking them to,

00:09:09.640 you know,

00:09:10.580 eviscerate me publicly.

00:09:12.540 And then shortly after that,

00:09:14.980 here comes Tara Sepleve, 1.00

00:09:17.320 threatening me with a baseball bat

00:09:18.860 on social media.

00:09:20.820 Veronica Ivey,

00:09:21.680 I was one of the people listed that,

00:09:23.880 you know,

00:09:24.200 I was a TERF 0.99

00:09:24.920 that should die in a grease fire. 1.00

00:09:27.320 And, 0.99

00:09:27.920 and it just furthered my resolve.

00:09:31.580 And then you start getting attacked

00:09:33.020 from this army of people

00:09:35.480 that go after you,

00:09:36.700 going after friends,

00:09:39.020 going after jobs.

00:09:40.100 I mean,

00:09:40.360 it, 0.83

00:09:40.600 it's ludicrous,

00:09:42.920 the amount of hate

00:09:44.000 that comes out of this 0.96

00:09:45.840 transgender radical advocate group.

00:09:48.800 And yet at the same time,

00:09:51.060 the two transgender people

00:09:52.400 that I know,

00:09:53.660 they're like,

00:09:54.020 this is not who we are.

00:09:55.700 This is not what we do.

00:09:56.820 We don't infiltrate women's faces. 1.00

00:09:58.920 We understand

00:09:59.680 we have gender dysphoria

00:10:01.740 and they,

00:10:02.580 they like women 0.92

00:10:03.860 and they respect women.

00:10:05.360 And this ideology does

00:10:07.620 and this self ID

00:10:08.560 is it opens up this loophole

00:10:10.820 to the men

00:10:14.000 that claim to have gender dysphoria.

00:10:16.340 And sometimes I wonder

00:10:17.160 if they're just about men 0.86

00:10:18.260 that hate women. 1.00

00:10:20.380 There are two that is

00:10:21.360 opportunistic

00:10:23.340 as to how to get in there

00:10:25.380 and really tell women,

00:10:27.360 you know,

00:10:28.100 really dominate women 1.00

00:10:29.340 and all in,

00:10:30.040 in,

00:10:30.280 in,

00:10:30.760 in the worst possible.

00:10:34.040 Totally.

00:10:34.600 Again,

00:10:34.960 it's,

00:10:35.600 it's a power trip.

00:10:36.760 And if you look at this

00:10:37.840 for what it is,

00:10:39.500 why are we seeing women 1.00

00:10:41.300 go into men's sports

00:10:42.760 or men's prisons

00:10:44.060 or men's fraternities

00:10:45.560 or men's restrooms? 0.99

00:10:47.000 And it's an,

00:10:47.960 it's an ego trip.

00:10:49.480 Um,

00:10:49.700 it's a way for these men

00:10:50.780 to feel dominant.

00:10:52.140 It's a way for these men

00:10:53.420 to feel powerful.

00:10:54.360 And again,

00:10:54.900 that's not to say

00:10:55.680 that's the case

00:10:56.300 for every single trans person.

00:10:57.880 I,

00:10:58.420 I,

00:10:58.680 I do believe there are people

00:10:59.940 that struggle truly

00:11:01.260 with gender dysphoria,

00:11:02.180 but how can we not acknowledge

00:11:04.160 that the systems

00:11:04.980 that we have in place,

00:11:06.260 um,

00:11:07.480 it,

00:11:07.640 it doesn't just limit

00:11:09.220 these,

00:11:09.680 these women's spaces 0.99

00:11:11.440 for people with gender dysphoria,

00:11:13.120 especially with the self ID laws,

00:11:15.700 um,

00:11:16.260 to simply say I am a woman

00:11:17.740 and,

00:11:18.220 and you get access

00:11:19.100 to these,

00:11:19.720 these places.

00:11:20.760 So you get to infringe

00:11:21.560 upon our rights

00:11:22.360 simply for saying

00:11:23.240 I am a woman.

00:11:24.340 Um,

00:11:24.860 you're right.

00:11:25.380 The term leader Chris,

00:11:26.420 it is absolutely

00:11:27.360 just that.

00:11:29.080 Um,

00:11:29.600 and we've seen cycling,

00:11:31.140 cycling was,

00:11:32.040 cycling has been

00:11:32.920 one of the worst sports

00:11:34.720 in terms of infiltration

00:11:35.880 of men

00:11:36.400 into the women's category.

00:11:38.020 Uh,

00:11:38.500 I have seen it time

00:11:40.280 and time again,

00:11:41.280 uh,

00:11:42.240 at all levels.

00:11:43.140 Right.

00:11:43.640 And so I think

00:11:45.240 it's incredibly interesting

00:11:46.320 because the UCI,

00:11:47.640 uh,

00:11:48.220 which is the,

00:11:48.840 the international cycling

00:11:50.320 governing body,

00:11:51.200 correct?

00:11:51.560 Right.

00:11:53.260 Just a few months ago,

00:11:55.240 they doubled down

00:11:56.700 on their stance

00:11:57.960 of allowing men,

00:11:59.420 trans women, 0.96

00:12:00.140 to compete

00:12:00.740 in the women's category.

00:12:02.040 But just a few weeks ago,

00:12:04.300 we saw

00:12:05.540 the UCI

00:12:06.820 take a totally

00:12:07.940 different approach

00:12:08.640 and can you walk us

00:12:09.560 through

00:12:09.920 what their new guideline

00:12:11.420 really is?

00:12:13.200 Well,

00:12:13.400 a little bit of back

00:12:14.540 history on this one.

00:12:15.560 This is where

00:12:16.020 people like you

00:12:17.320 are super important

00:12:18.140 because there was

00:12:19.060 a huge group of us

00:12:21.080 that,

00:12:21.380 that advocated for this.

00:12:23.480 And right after

00:12:24.300 Austin Killip's win,

00:12:26.360 who's,

00:12:26.920 you know,

00:12:27.180 he's a transgender woman,

00:12:28.900 uh,

00:12:29.260 his,

00:12:29.560 his win at Tour of Gila,

00:12:31.060 there was outrage.

00:12:33.560 And the International

00:12:34.700 Cycling Union,

00:12:35.700 they doubled down,

00:12:36.820 they say,

00:12:37.240 we,

00:12:37.620 we stood,

00:12:38.120 they stood by their policy

00:12:39.520 of having transgender women

00:12:40.720 and women's sports. 0.99

00:12:41.820 And then that's when

00:12:42.860 we called for a protest.

00:12:44.980 And the,

00:12:45.640 the women over in Glasgow

00:12:47.280 were putting together

00:12:48.800 a protest

00:12:49.320 at the World Championships.

00:12:50.380 And then we did

00:12:51.160 our small protest

00:12:52.120 that you were there with.

00:12:53.740 And I think that really

00:12:54.920 got the attention

00:12:55.680 because when you think about it,

00:12:57.660 they've had the science

00:12:59.120 that shows that

00:13:00.120 this is not fair

00:13:01.140 for years.

00:13:02.400 And there's just

00:13:03.180 more science

00:13:04.060 and more science.

00:13:05.540 So the women 1.00

00:13:05.840 started getting louder.

00:13:07.100 The women have started 0.68

00:13:07.820 getting angrier.

00:13:10.260 And there was a group

00:13:12.220 of us trying so hard

00:13:13.660 to get a seat at the table

00:13:14.840 and we couldn't.

00:13:17.040 And then CPA Women,

00:13:18.280 which is the,

00:13:18.820 the Cycling Professional

00:13:19.840 Association for Women,

00:13:21.260 the recognized

00:13:21.940 governing body,

00:13:22.800 uh,

00:13:23.680 that the International

00:13:24.440 Cycling Union

00:13:25.240 recognizes,

00:13:26.580 they wouldn't even

00:13:27.460 give them a voice.

00:13:28.500 And so they,

00:13:29.600 they did a survey,

00:13:30.980 CPA Women did a survey 0.99

00:13:32.240 of just pro-women. 0.81

00:13:34.100 And 93% said,

00:13:36.320 no,

00:13:36.540 they don't want 0.96

00:13:37.620 transgender women 0.94

00:13:38.320 in their sport.

00:13:38.980 We put that forth

00:13:40.140 to the International

00:13:40.980 Cycling Union

00:13:41.920 and they came back

00:13:43.360 and they said,

00:13:43.820 well,

00:13:44.660 um,

00:13:45.440 we're not going

00:13:46.080 to really look at that

00:13:46.940 because that's just

00:13:47.620 based on feelings,

00:13:48.800 not on science.

00:13:49.840 that's what I've been

00:13:51.120 on.

00:13:51.480 That's all the funniest

00:13:52.600 thing I've ever heard.

00:13:54.160 Yeah.

00:13:54.720 Oh,

00:13:55.240 but only without the

00:13:56.140 feelings of men,

00:13:57.600 you allow them to

00:13:58.620 compete with women,

00:13:59.400 but you,

00:13:59.860 you can't access

00:14:00.880 the feelings of the women

00:14:02.080 or you can't take

00:14:04.020 that into account.

00:14:05.000 And so then,

00:14:06.120 um,

00:14:06.760 from there,

00:14:07.560 we,

00:14:09.660 we kind of doubled

00:14:10.660 down again,

00:14:11.360 trying to fight.

00:14:12.260 And so then we put

00:14:13.060 forth the science

00:14:13.980 to all of the

00:14:14.920 professional cycling women.

00:14:16.940 And then they said,

00:14:18.280 we were transphobic

00:14:19.680 and bigots

00:14:20.340 for trying to

00:14:21.300 change their mind

00:14:22.220 by showing them

00:14:22.880 the science.

00:14:23.460 It was like,

00:14:23.900 you just couldn't win.

00:14:25.260 And we kept exposing 0.97

00:14:26.460 the hypocrisy of this.

00:14:29.020 And so when we called

00:14:29.780 for the protest,

00:14:31.020 a couple days later,

00:14:32.660 the International

00:14:33.220 Cycling Union said,

00:14:34.380 well,

00:14:34.560 maybe we should

00:14:35.680 rethink this.

00:14:37.600 And then I knew

00:14:38.520 that they were serious

00:14:39.360 when they brought in

00:14:40.160 world athletics

00:14:41.120 to argue

00:14:42.220 the science behind it.

00:14:44.440 And,

00:14:44.960 and I think

00:14:45.540 I think it was

00:14:46.880 the social pressure

00:14:48.100 combined with

00:14:49.900 the science

00:14:50.440 versus when this

00:14:51.180 first got passed,

00:14:52.320 it was social pressure

00:14:53.800 of the ideology

00:14:54.760 and the politics.

00:14:56.640 But I,

00:14:57.680 I think we have

00:14:58.500 firm footing.

00:14:59.420 I don't think

00:14:59.820 that we could,

00:15:00.700 that we should

00:15:01.280 rest on our laurels

00:15:03.100 and not continue

00:15:03.740 to fight for this.

00:15:04.580 But we now have

00:15:05.280 the science behind us

00:15:06.640 plus women 1.00

00:15:08.220 that are feeling

00:15:08.880 empowered to start

00:15:09.960 speaking up.

00:15:10.700 And so,

00:15:12.020 I,

00:15:12.280 I hope this doesn't

00:15:13.160 get changed back.

00:15:13.980 We know how rules are.

00:15:14.780 They can get changed.

00:15:15.660 Right.

00:15:16.520 Right.

00:15:17.420 Right.

00:15:17.780 Well,

00:15:18.480 and of course,

00:15:19.660 world athletics

00:15:20.320 is the international

00:15:21.120 governing body

00:15:21.820 of track and field,

00:15:22.940 which has taken

00:15:23.880 the same approach.

00:15:24.780 And so now UCI

00:15:25.960 has essentially

00:15:26.740 followed that

00:15:27.380 of world athletics

00:15:28.240 and FINA,

00:15:29.800 which is the

00:15:30.220 governing body

00:15:30.760 of swimming.

00:15:31.200 So,

00:15:31.760 so we're seeing

00:15:32.500 more and more

00:15:33.180 governing bodies

00:15:34.100 faced to,

00:15:35.220 to people like yourself

00:15:36.400 take this,

00:15:37.780 this approach,

00:15:38.440 which is great.

00:15:39.300 Um,

00:15:39.560 they're,

00:15:39.800 they're,

00:15:40.440 it's the bold

00:15:41.220 first step

00:15:41.820 to prioritize

00:15:42.440 fairness in women's 0.81

00:15:43.780 sports and sports

00:15:44.740 in general,

00:15:45.180 not just women's

00:15:45.820 sports,

00:15:46.120 fairness in sports,

00:15:46.900 which is what

00:15:47.360 the foundation

00:15:48.040 of sports lies in.

00:15:49.640 but I personally

00:15:51.440 believe there's

00:15:51.880 some caveats

00:15:52.580 to,

00:15:53.560 to these guidelines.

00:15:54.780 Um,

00:15:55.220 at least in,

00:15:55.900 in regards to FINA,

00:15:57.900 um,

00:15:58.120 which is again,

00:15:58.640 swimming,

00:15:59.800 they left it open

00:16:00.640 to if you've

00:16:01.180 transitioned by the

00:16:02.080 age of 12,

00:16:03.780 essentially the guidelines

00:16:04.960 are if you've gone

00:16:05.620 through male puberty,

00:16:06.540 you can't compete

00:16:07.260 with women.

00:16:08.160 Um,

00:16:08.440 but it's leaving it

00:16:09.960 up to interpretation

00:16:10.800 that if you have

00:16:11.640 transitioned by the

00:16:12.720 age of 12

00:16:13.300 or through puberty,

00:16:14.160 then you can

00:16:15.440 compete against women.

00:16:17.360 Um,

00:16:17.720 even having

00:16:20.140 transitioned by

00:16:21.520 the age of 12,

00:16:22.500 men still have 0.98

00:16:24.140 advantages that,

00:16:25.380 that won't be

00:16:26.080 mitigated.

00:16:27.060 Um,

00:16:27.580 so can you talk

00:16:28.560 about those

00:16:29.020 advantages in cycling?

00:16:30.360 Just,

00:16:30.700 just the difference

00:16:31.780 between a male

00:16:32.940 cyclist versus a

00:16:33.840 woman cyclist.

00:16:34.740 Um,

00:16:35.220 what does that look

00:16:35.880 like?

00:16:36.100 Does lung capacity

00:16:37.080 matter?

00:16:37.920 Does,

00:16:38.300 does length?

00:16:39.840 What,

00:16:40.440 what are the main

00:16:40.980 ones in cycling

00:16:41.680 that would make

00:16:42.880 a big difference?

00:16:44.360 You know,

00:16:44.580 some of the main

00:16:45.320 ones in cycling

00:16:46.180 that you see is

00:16:46.960 just like,

00:16:47.360 say having a

00:16:48.020 longer femur,

00:16:49.700 uh,

00:16:50.580 the,

00:16:51.000 the amount of

00:16:51.560 hemoglobin that

00:16:52.580 you can carry

00:16:53.160 because it's,

00:16:53.800 it's an endurance

00:16:54.700 sport.

00:16:55.220 I mean,

00:16:55.600 when you get in

00:16:57.120 these endurance

00:16:57.860 and,

00:16:58.620 and you're pushing

00:16:59.560 it to the utmost

00:17:00.280 level,

00:17:00.740 if you have a

00:17:01.500 bigger heart,

00:17:02.220 you could pump

00:17:03.340 that much more

00:17:03.960 oxygen.

00:17:04.380 If you have a

00:17:04.980 bigger VO2

00:17:05.920 capacity,

00:17:07.480 pump that much

00:17:08.220 more oxygen.

00:17:09.020 I mean,

00:17:09.260 the advantage,

00:17:09.980 there's a reason

00:17:11.500 that there's no

00:17:12.120 women in men's

00:17:13.040 sports.

00:17:14.500 Right?

00:17:14.700 I competed

00:17:16.960 with the men

00:17:17.600 all the time.

00:17:18.320 So let's compare

00:17:19.260 apples and apples,

00:17:20.180 right?

00:17:20.440 I am,

00:17:21.520 or was,

00:17:22.780 an elite women,

00:17:23.940 woman in my field.

00:17:26.040 And I would race 0.92

00:17:27.160 with the pro

00:17:27.700 one,

00:17:28.080 two,

00:17:28.300 three men

00:17:28.800 all the time. 0.91

00:17:30.580 And I could hang

00:17:31.960 in the field

00:17:32.460 because there,

00:17:33.600 there's a lot

00:17:34.040 of drafting going

00:17:34.900 on.

00:17:35.460 If I was,

00:17:36.260 you know,

00:17:36.540 very,

00:17:37.240 very smart about

00:17:38.380 it,

00:17:38.640 I could make

00:17:39.140 an attack here

00:17:39.880 and there

00:17:40.260 and hopefully

00:17:40.780 get in

00:17:41.400 with another

00:17:42.760 men's group

00:17:43.480 that I could,

00:17:44.260 you know,

00:17:44.540 save myself

00:17:45.360 and be in

00:17:46.140 the peloton

00:17:46.780 and try to

00:17:47.320 save myself.

00:17:48.300 But when it

00:17:49.000 came to a jump,

00:17:49.860 when it came

00:17:50.260 to a sprint,

00:17:51.100 anything with

00:17:51.600 power,

00:17:53.040 there was no

00:17:53.540 way.

00:17:53.900 They're just

00:17:54.240 gone.

00:17:54.720 This is where

00:17:55.160 they have

00:17:55.540 the 45% 0.99

00:17:56.740 advantage.

00:17:57.680 When it

00:17:58.200 comes to

00:17:58.600 endurance,

00:17:59.380 you know,

00:17:59.600 maybe they

00:17:59.980 have a

00:18:01.140 10%

00:18:01.800 advantage,

00:18:02.320 but you

00:18:02.900 combine

00:18:03.360 endurance

00:18:03.860 with the

00:18:04.440 amount of

00:18:04.780 power,

00:18:05.340 the jump,

00:18:05.960 the speed,

00:18:07.360 there's just

00:18:08.020 no way.

00:18:08.540 You come to

00:18:09.040 a climb,

00:18:10.140 they're gone.

00:18:11.400 And so I

00:18:12.760 spent 10

00:18:13.380 years racing

00:18:14.220 with the

00:18:14.620 men because 0.99

00:18:15.260 we didn't

00:18:15.920 have a lot

00:18:16.580 of women's

00:18:17.780 racing hadn't

00:18:18.480 really taken

00:18:19.260 off yet.

00:18:19.780 There wasn't

00:18:20.180 a lot of

00:18:20.820 events and

00:18:21.460 there was a

00:18:21.800 lot,

00:18:22.180 there were

00:18:22.360 some good

00:18:22.660 events,

00:18:23.100 but there

00:18:23.420 was a lot

00:18:23.860 of gaps.

00:18:24.500 And so I

00:18:24.980 raced with

00:18:25.380 the men

00:18:25.680 all the

00:18:26.020 time.

00:18:26.860 I never

00:18:27.240 would have

00:18:27.540 made a

00:18:27.820 national

00:18:28.140 team.

00:18:29.040 I never

00:18:29.360 would have

00:18:29.660 made a

00:18:29.940 pro team.

00:18:31.620 You know,

00:18:31.920 the only

00:18:32.360 reason why

00:18:32.960 I was there

00:18:33.560 was because

00:18:34.000 I was

00:18:34.420 considered a

00:18:35.380 category one

00:18:36.300 pro woman

00:18:38.000 and I could

00:18:38.800 race in that

00:18:39.360 field,

00:18:39.740 but I never

00:18:40.240 had a chance

00:18:40.880 of winning

00:18:42.220 something.

00:18:44.760 And so

00:18:45.220 like I said,

00:18:45.700 let's compare

00:18:46.160 apples and

00:18:46.720 apples and

00:18:47.200 that's just

00:18:47.580 me racing

00:18:48.100 with the

00:18:48.400 men at

00:18:48.640 the national

00:18:49.060 level.

00:18:49.860 I haven't

00:18:50.480 even gotten

00:18:50.840 to the

00:18:51.140 international

00:18:51.560 level.

00:18:53.300 Never

00:18:53.700 would have

00:18:53.960 made it.

00:18:55.000 Right.

00:18:56.020 And you

00:18:56.300 could go

00:18:58.160 ahead.

00:18:58.380 Sorry.

00:18:59.100 I was just

00:18:59.420 going to say,

00:18:59.780 you know,

00:18:59.960 something else

00:19:00.540 that I think

00:19:01.220 is interesting

00:19:01.700 about cycling,

00:19:02.500 which isn't

00:19:03.200 the case for

00:19:03.760 a lot of

00:19:04.140 sports,

00:19:05.400 and it's a

00:19:06.380 different variable

00:19:07.160 to think

00:19:07.660 about,

00:19:08.800 is the

00:19:09.680 effects on

00:19:10.220 prize money

00:19:10.920 and how

00:19:12.500 women who 0.99

00:19:13.600 rightfully

00:19:14.660 earn prize

00:19:16.040 money,

00:19:16.380 this is their

00:19:16.840 job,

00:19:17.240 it's their

00:19:17.580 income to

00:19:18.160 win these

00:19:18.560 races and

00:19:19.360 that's what

00:19:20.040 feeds their

00:19:20.440 family,

00:19:20.880 right?

00:19:21.680 We're seeing

00:19:22.160 prize money

00:19:22.920 come into play

00:19:24.080 here.

00:19:24.680 And again,

00:19:24.980 this isn't

00:19:25.360 something we

00:19:25.840 dealt with in

00:19:26.320 swimming.

00:19:26.640 There's not a

00:19:27.060 lot of

00:19:27.440 opportunity for

00:19:28.480 professional

00:19:29.080 swimming outside

00:19:30.040 of making the

00:19:31.100 Olympic team.

00:19:32.400 But there is

00:19:33.420 in cycling.

00:19:34.780 And so you

00:19:35.160 mentioned Austin

00:19:35.760 Killips earlier

00:19:36.460 and how he was

00:19:37.600 kind of a big

00:19:38.220 factor in

00:19:38.940 understanding and

00:19:40.140 changing with

00:19:41.840 the UCI's

00:19:42.960 guidelines.

00:19:45.020 Can you talk

00:19:45.940 about the

00:19:46.800 prize-winning

00:19:47.280 aspect of it

00:19:48.020 and why that's

00:19:48.520 important and

00:19:50.080 how Austin

00:19:51.480 Killips has

00:19:52.060 benefited from

00:19:52.740 this?

00:19:54.100 Oh, in

00:19:54.880 talking to the

00:19:55.640 women that 1.00

00:19:56.580 were competing,

00:19:57.520 they were

00:19:57.840 talking about

00:19:58.360 Austin got all

00:19:59.340 of the best

00:19:59.780 bikes and all

00:20:00.480 of the sponsorship

00:20:01.120 and he got

00:20:01.780 everything handed

00:20:03.640 to him because

00:20:04.460 he's the most

00:20:05.560 marginalized.

00:20:06.200 And there's a

00:20:07.400 lot of virtue

00:20:08.000 signaling of

00:20:08.860 let's give to

00:20:10.120 Austin because

00:20:10.780 we look really,

00:20:11.700 really good.

00:20:12.160 And the women 1.00

00:20:12.600 suffered in that

00:20:14.580 area as well.

00:20:16.320 And then you

00:20:16.680 get into the

00:20:17.500 prize lists and

00:20:18.420 money.

00:20:19.580 Austin's cleaning

00:20:20.360 up and all of

00:20:21.060 those things and

00:20:21.720 those are more

00:20:22.260 opportunities taken

00:20:23.340 away from women. 1.00

00:20:24.120 So he's already

00:20:25.560 getting sponsorship

00:20:26.840 and bikes and

00:20:27.960 making a lot of

00:20:28.640 money.

00:20:29.080 And the 90% of

00:20:30.880 the women that I

00:20:32.920 know that are

00:20:33.460 racing, are racing

00:20:34.260 on nothing to

00:20:35.820 maybe $2,000 a

00:20:37.280 month that they

00:20:37.740 get from their

00:20:38.300 sponsors.

00:20:39.500 I mean, they're

00:20:40.140 really, they're

00:20:41.440 racing for the

00:20:42.440 love of it.

00:20:44.280 Just the other

00:20:45.080 day, like we

00:20:45.720 were at the

00:20:46.860 Boisey Twilight

00:20:47.800 Criterium and

00:20:48.580 there's a

00:20:48.940 transgender woman

00:20:49.680 in there. 0.56

00:20:51.320 They didn't win

00:20:52.140 the race, but

00:20:53.740 there was $1,000

00:20:55.020 premium and they

00:20:56.880 took it.

00:20:58.620 And it was like,

00:20:59.720 here you go

00:21:00.700 again.

00:21:01.520 You know, another

00:21:02.140 opportunity.

00:21:02.560 And so the

00:21:03.700 theft just doesn't

00:21:04.480 happen with the

00:21:05.160 prize money.

00:21:05.780 Within the races

00:21:06.400 they have, let me

00:21:07.140 back up.

00:21:07.860 So what a

00:21:08.180 premium is, is

00:21:08.900 like say during a

00:21:09.760 criterium, you'll

00:21:11.440 have a criterium is

00:21:12.720 a one mile lap, but

00:21:14.380 you'll race for like

00:21:15.240 40, 50 miles.

00:21:16.800 And within that

00:21:17.800 race, there'll be 0.96

00:21:18.500 prize money, you

00:21:20.140 know, $50, $100,

00:21:22.100 $1,000, depending

00:21:23.820 on what the sponsor

00:21:24.640 wants to get in.

00:21:25.560 And the big

00:21:26.200 creams were all

00:21:27.800 taken by the 0.98

00:21:28.340 transgender women and 0.93

00:21:29.360 then they left over 0.95

00:21:30.100 the small preams for

00:21:31.120 the women. 0.81

00:21:31.440 And, you know,

00:21:32.180 can't look like

00:21:32.760 you're taking too

00:21:34.140 much.

00:21:35.080 But it was just so

00:21:36.600 clear, and this was

00:21:38.300 Jenna Lingwood, who

00:21:39.940 has won women's

00:21:40.960 event after women's

00:21:41.980 event all the time

00:21:43.500 and, and you know

00:21:45.460 when they're soft

00:21:46.040 pedaling, when they're

00:21:47.360 not really, and

00:21:48.060 this is part of the

00:21:49.120 deception of, well,

00:21:50.520 they don't win all

00:21:51.400 the time.

00:21:51.920 Well, one of the

00:21:52.600 audience is, dopers

00:21:54.100 don't win all the

00:21:54.840 time either in bike

00:21:56.020 racing because it's a

00:21:58.140 different dynamic.

00:21:58.880 There is team

00:21:59.940 tactics that go on

00:22:01.860 and opportunities,

00:22:02.660 whereas within like

00:22:04.020 swimming or running,

00:22:05.260 we call it the race 0.83

00:22:06.680 of truth in cycling.

00:22:07.760 If you just race 0.82

00:22:08.620 against the clock,

00:22:09.400 it's the race of 0.98

00:22:10.100 truth.

00:22:10.420 It's just you

00:22:10.940 against the clock.

00:22:12.320 Yeah.

00:22:12.560 And see that running

00:22:13.400 and you see that in

00:22:14.480 swimming.

00:22:15.020 But in cycling, it

00:22:16.140 has a whole other

00:22:16.920 dynamic.

00:22:17.380 Like you could look

00:22:18.120 at Lance Armstrong,

00:22:19.320 the strongest rider

00:22:20.980 out there, and we

00:22:22.220 know his doping

00:22:23.060 regime.

00:22:23.420 and he didn't

00:22:25.360 win every race.

00:22:26.380 He won very few

00:22:28.460 races, but he

00:22:30.140 dominated everybody.

00:22:32.680 Right.

00:22:33.560 And so this with

00:22:35.380 Leotanas, if you

00:22:37.140 know anything about

00:22:37.960 swimming, and again,

00:22:39.180 I don't expect people

00:22:40.080 to, right?

00:22:41.120 But the way that he

00:22:42.380 split his races is not

00:22:46.020 indicative of effort.

00:22:47.320 Um, he won an

00:22:49.780 actual title on the

00:22:50.700 first day, the second

00:22:51.580 day, then placed

00:22:52.460 fifth, and then the

00:22:53.800 last place, or the

00:22:54.860 last day placed eighth

00:22:55.960 in the 100 freestyle.

00:22:57.180 And it was entirely

00:22:58.280 strategic.

00:22:59.200 And I'm not one to

00:22:59.940 speculate.

00:23:00.880 I'm not one to, but

00:23:02.380 I am for certain.

00:23:04.840 Just based off

00:23:05.580 watching these races,

00:23:07.020 you can see how he's

00:23:08.100 not kicking as hard

00:23:08.960 as we were.

00:23:09.820 You can see how his

00:23:10.940 flip turns were,

00:23:12.520 were visibly different.

00:23:14.260 And you don't have to

00:23:15.020 be as forward to see

00:23:15.840 these things, but it

00:23:16.700 communicates the

00:23:17.360 message that trans 0.87

00:23:18.200 women can win, but 1.00

00:23:19.800 not dominate.

00:23:21.580 Right.

00:23:22.080 And, and I call it,

00:23:22.900 you know, a slight

00:23:23.820 of hand that they, I

00:23:26.020 mean, heck, we did

00:23:27.360 this all the time in

00:23:28.240 racing.

00:23:28.660 Look a little bit

00:23:29.240 weak here, look a

00:23:30.160 little bit weak there.

00:23:31.520 And then your

00:23:32.220 competitor thinks that

00:23:33.200 you don't really have

00:23:34.000 it.

00:23:35.300 And then you have it.

00:23:36.520 It's a tactic that we

00:23:37.680 use in sports.

00:23:38.960 Right.

00:23:39.380 And, and if you have

00:23:40.540 a trained eye and you

00:23:41.620 know what you're

00:23:42.180 looking at, you can see

00:23:44.080 it.

00:23:44.340 So like a tour of

00:23:45.180 Gila watching Austin

00:23:46.260 Killips, um, watching

00:23:48.480 them ride, you can tell

00:23:49.880 they're not breathing as

00:23:50.900 hard.

00:23:51.200 You can tell they're

00:23:51.900 soft pedaling it.

00:23:52.940 They're just winning by

00:23:54.400 just enough to win, but

00:23:56.040 they can't dominate too

00:23:58.160 much.

00:23:58.620 And, and, and we do this

00:24:00.900 all the time.

00:24:02.080 And Austin Killips, not

00:24:03.080 only is he taking a

00:24:03.860 bridesmaid, not only is

00:24:05.740 he, he slacking, he

00:24:09.160 also, I've seen a video

00:24:10.520 of him pushing a woman

00:24:12.360 off her bike.

00:24:13.840 It, it, I guess, helps to

00:24:15.480 slow her down. 1.00

00:24:16.580 I don't know, but I've

00:24:17.700 seen this video of him

00:24:19.620 visibly and, and

00:24:21.500 blatantly pushing a woman

00:24:23.340 off her bike when, when

00:24:24.340 coming around a tour.

00:24:25.260 I, I am, I am still

00:24:28.640 stunned.

00:24:30.820 If a woman had done 1.00

00:24:32.140 that to another woman, if

00:24:33.240 a man had done that to

00:24:34.200 another man, every

00:24:35.700 official out there has

00:24:36.820 told me it's an automatic

00:24:38.840 disqualification.

00:24:40.920 But it shows again, once

00:24:42.600 the preference that are

00:24:43.540 going to the transgender 0.99

00:24:44.440 women in the sport, no 1.00

00:24:46.620 official wanted to touch

00:24:47.800 it because they were going

00:24:48.840 to get labeled as

00:24:49.720 transphobic.

00:24:50.540 And then they had maybe

00:24:52.440 some sanctions coming at

00:24:53.800 them.

00:24:54.080 So it was like, once

00:24:54.700 again, it's like the

00:24:56.260 transgender women get to 0.96

00:24:57.320 operate under their, their 0.54

00:24:59.440 own set of rules.

00:25:00.700 They get to put, Austin

00:25:02.220 Phillips didn't push Hannah

00:25:03.580 once.

00:25:05.400 He pushed her three times.

00:25:08.460 And this resulted in the

00:25:09.640 end of her career, which

00:25:11.280 braced my part as an

00:25:12.720 athlete, knowing the value

00:25:14.720 of sports, knowing again,

00:25:16.160 how much you put into it.

00:25:17.680 I remember reading a quote

00:25:18.720 from her after this, her

00:25:19.780 names, Hannah Arnsman.

00:25:22.360 After she was flanked on

00:25:25.180 either side, I believe she

00:25:26.960 placed fourth and on, and

00:25:28.400 third place and fifth place

00:25:30.360 was men and of course the

00:25:32.120 women's category, she lost 0.97

00:25:34.000 her love entirely for

00:25:35.480 cycling and it resulted in

00:25:37.380 her retiring.

00:25:38.800 And that broke, that broke

00:25:40.280 me.

00:25:40.960 I felt so bad as she, she

00:25:42.520 further on went with her

00:25:43.940 quote saying she went over

00:25:45.000 to her, her mother and her

00:25:46.600 sister who on the sidelines

00:25:47.960 who were crying tears for

00:25:49.500 her, it's just utterly

00:25:52.140 heartbreaking.

00:25:52.980 And again, you're right, it's

00:25:53.900 affecting how people do

00:25:54.900 their jobs.

00:25:55.500 It's affecting how coaches,

00:25:57.060 how coaches protect their

00:25:59.020 athletes.

00:25:59.480 It's affecting how officials,

00:26:01.020 official, it's affecting how

00:26:02.420 athletic directors

00:26:03.660 administrate things because

00:26:05.020 they are scared.

00:26:06.360 They're scared of the name

00:26:07.280 calling.

00:26:07.660 They're scared of the labels.

00:26:08.880 They're scared of this cancel

00:26:09.900 culture that we live in.

00:26:11.960 Um, but does it make someone

00:26:14.040 transphobic or hateful or a 0.85

00:26:16.240 bigot to acknowledge that

00:26:18.320 there are two sexes and to

00:26:19.640 acknowledge that the sex, that

00:26:21.040 the sexes are different on a 0.76

00:26:22.820 biological, chromosomal level

00:26:25.120 that make men on average

00:26:26.940 advantageous when it comes to

00:26:28.720 something that requires

00:26:29.740 athleticism or, or sheer

00:26:31.160 strength?

00:26:31.600 Is that really transphobic?

00:26:33.640 No, that, that's a believing

00:26:35.260 biology.

00:26:36.180 It's not bigotry.

00:26:37.900 Well, I mean, here, here's a,

00:26:39.700 I think you can see this

00:26:40.720 comparison.

00:26:41.260 Like when I quit cycling, the

00:26:43.920 doping got to be too much

00:26:46.060 and, and I was removed because

00:26:50.040 I wouldn't dope.

00:26:51.520 And because I hated the doping

00:26:53.420 and I spoke out about the

00:26:54.640 doping, does that make me

00:26:55.840 doping phobic?

00:26:58.980 It means that it's not fair and

00:27:01.980 it's a legitimate complaint.

00:27:04.440 women deserve to have equal 1.00

00:27:08.420 opportunities.

00:27:09.680 You know, that the CEDAW Act

00:27:11.600 protects us.

00:27:12.780 Women, women get equal 1.00

00:27:13.920 opportunities in life.

00:27:16.080 And this, this is, this is so

00:27:18.580 easy because it's sports.

00:27:21.440 We all know that the biology is

00:27:23.300 different.

00:27:24.220 I mean, we all figured it out

00:27:25.740 before kindergarten.

00:27:26.860 There's boys and there's girls.

00:27:28.960 And studies show that if young

00:27:31.140 girls are not given a sex 1.00

00:27:32.500 separated sport, they can

00:27:34.420 walk away.

00:27:35.920 So even allowing young boys in 0.75

00:27:38.220 there, I mean, I know that we

00:27:40.200 can have co-ed and stuff like,

00:27:41.860 you know, that up to a certain

00:27:42.900 point, but with little girls need 1.00

00:27:44.500 to have sex separated in sports 0.91

00:27:45.960 because we aren't it.

00:27:48.420 And to, and to take that away

00:27:50.320 from us is a, it's a

00:27:53.260 discrimination.

00:27:53.900 And thankfully, most people see the

00:27:56.620 discrimination, but we're also

00:27:59.440 seeing the continued subjugation of

00:28:04.280 women to allow this men's rights. 1.00

00:28:07.500 And that's not, I've been calling it

00:28:08.880 for a year.

00:28:09.280 It's a men's rights movement to say,

00:28:12.240 we demand to have equal access to

00:28:15.280 women's space spaces and to, to take 0.93

00:28:18.900 women out of those spaces. 1.00

00:28:20.020 You can't tell me that doesn't come

00:28:21.480 from anywhere but misogyny.

00:28:26.320 I think the term doping phobic,

00:28:28.740 doping phobia is, if you apply this

00:28:32.440 to any classification of which sports

00:28:34.620 are categorized, like let's say in

00:28:36.580 boxing, weight classes, does it make

00:28:40.260 me fat phobic because I don't think a

00:28:42.160 heavyweight should go against the

00:28:43.380 featherweight?

00:28:44.240 Does it make me age phobic to think

00:28:47.180 that an 18 and under shouldn't play 1.00

00:28:48.680 against a 12 and under?

00:28:49.640 No, it does not make me.

00:28:51.980 No.

00:28:52.720 And, and suddenly we're saying, hey,

00:28:54.040 it's really not fair for men to be 0.99

00:28:55.420 in there and we're, and we're

00:28:56.720 transphobic?

00:28:57.900 Yeah.

00:28:58.560 We're just, we're just asking for

00:28:59.940 fairness.

00:29:00.440 And if I was trying to do some lame

00:29:02.360 comparison of like, okay, my age,

00:29:05.480 about the only person I'd be

00:29:06.700 competitive against now is maybe

00:29:08.160 about a 10 year old.

00:29:09.060 But it's like, so if my gender

00:29:18.080 identity is that I'm, I'm infantile

00:29:20.380 at times, my humor is, you know, um,

00:29:23.580 just don't get to identify where you

00:29:26.460 want to be.

00:29:27.020 There's a reason why we have

00:29:28.500 classifications and under that

00:29:30.200 categories is to ensure fairness.

00:29:34.060 Right?

00:29:34.620 So it's like, like, let's just take

00:29:35.960 women's cycling or just women in

00:29:37.960 general.

00:29:38.840 And then underneath that, you

00:29:41.060 have all of these under women, you 1.00

00:29:43.340 have age classification and you

00:29:46.120 have potentially, we won't do

00:29:47.980 cycling, but like weight

00:29:48.940 classification.

00:29:49.540 And even within those weights, um,

00:29:52.480 or ages.

00:29:54.000 And so we have like, you know, 10 to

00:29:56.840 14, and then you have under 23, and

00:29:59.620 then you have elite women, and then 0.99

00:30:01.260 you have veteran women, and you have

00:30:03.320 masters women. 0.52

00:30:05.280 And, and underneath every single one

00:30:07.920 of those categories, you can be, uh,

00:30:10.420 category one, category two, category

00:30:12.580 three, four, five.

00:30:14.140 There are so many different categories

00:30:17.340 available for fairness.

00:30:21.160 This is why we have the age and weight

00:30:23.100 and all the different classifications.

00:30:24.800 Like, so, okay, so if you are, um, in

00:30:27.120 the prime of your career, you're a 20 to

00:30:29.240 a 30 year old woman, and even then you

00:30:31.740 have to start off at category five and

00:30:33.460 work your way up to being pro.

00:30:35.120 And you have that within every single

00:30:37.860 category of sports in cycling.

00:30:41.160 And so to suddenly just take one whole

00:30:45.020 classification of transgender women and

00:30:47.320 then just dump them into the women is 1.00

00:30:49.940 the absolute laziest way to go. 0.89

00:30:54.520 If they really truly believe that 0.75

00:30:57.640 transgender women believe should be in 1.00

00:31:00.460 women's sports, then put out the effort to 1.00

00:31:03.360 develop that classification, to develop

00:31:05.620 the races and to develop it, but just

00:31:08.780 don't take something that women have 1.00

00:31:10.940 worked for, for our whole lives, and then

00:31:14.860 just throw everybody in it with, with

00:31:18.120 zero regards to the women and their

00:31:21.300 thoughts and their feelings and their

00:31:22.720 emotions.

00:31:23.280 I mean, back, back to the misogyny of this

00:31:25.120 is just over the top.

00:31:27.500 Right.

00:31:27.880 And that's, it is just that is utter

00:31:30.040 misogyny.

00:31:30.360 Oh, and it doesn't take a feminist to 1.00

00:31:32.660 see it.

00:31:33.660 Um, you mentioned doping a couple of

00:31:35.940 times and I know recently you just

00:31:38.000 went, um, and did a podcast or an

00:31:39.960 interview style format with Lance

00:31:42.040 Armstrong.

00:31:43.220 I thought this was incredibly

00:31:44.740 interesting.

00:31:45.340 I thought you did an incredible job.

00:31:47.580 Um, can you talk about that kind of what

00:31:50.300 he's uncovering and the perspective you

00:31:53.400 guys shared together?

00:31:54.240 Yeah, he, as, as I watched his other

00:31:57.400 interviews, it become, it became very

00:32:00.500 clear to me that this was something that

00:32:02.280 he wanted to cover.

00:32:03.720 He, he felt like he'd been canceled so

00:32:05.620 many times you can't cancel him anymore.

00:32:07.440 And I had to, you know, and, and I felt

00:32:10.020 like he was a good person to speak about

00:32:11.740 this because if anybody knows about

00:32:14.560 cheating, and this is not a left-handed

00:32:16.840 slight, if anybody knows about cheating

00:32:19.640 and unfair advantage and how to get there,

00:32:21.860 it would be Lance.

00:32:23.800 And this is why I think that it was

00:32:25.700 appropriate that he spoke up and, uh,

00:32:28.320 thing was like, even Lance has the moral

00:32:31.160 compass to say, this is wrong.

00:32:35.180 I may dope against all of my peers,

00:32:38.300 but this is wrong.

00:32:41.200 And even, uh, Caitlyn Jenner that he

00:32:43.240 interviewed said, how can these men with

00:32:45.640 gender dysphoria stand for a woman's 1.00

00:32:48.380 podium and actually feel good about

00:32:51.340 themselves?

00:32:52.620 What type of level of misogyny did it,

00:32:56.040 does it take?

00:32:57.760 Caitlyn Jenner didn't call it misogyny.

00:32:59.800 I will.

00:33:00.540 What type of misogyny does it take to

00:33:03.880 stand on a woman's podium and actually 0.86

00:33:05.960 feel like you deserve that?

00:33:08.740 That, it goes, it goes back to the

00:33:10.440 power trip stuff.

00:33:11.900 Um, and, but, but anyway, but back to

00:33:15.740 Lance, as I was watching him do the

00:33:17.500 interviews, I saw somebody that had great

00:33:19.900 intentions to, to talk about both sides of

00:33:24.020 this.

00:33:24.280 But what I also saw was that he was very

00:33:26.900 new to the discussion and missed out on a

00:33:29.960 lot of the nuances and that he was being

00:33:32.900 lying to, but didn't even know that he was

00:33:35.080 being lied to.

00:33:35.840 And that reminded me of myself when I first

00:33:38.140 started, that I believe the lies, I believe

00:33:40.960 the statistics because that's what the media

00:33:43.140 kept putting out there.

00:33:44.820 There was such a push by the media to

00:33:47.260 misinform people.

00:33:49.760 And, and I saw this with Lance was that he

00:33:52.560 didn't really understand all the nuances

00:33:54.860 like you and I would now that we've been

00:33:57.700 at this for years and, or we've experienced

00:34:00.540 this.

00:34:01.780 And so this is where I asked him is like, you

00:34:05.100 were talking about women's sports.

00:34:08.440 You need to have a woman athlete on there to 1.00

00:34:11.540 discuss this.

00:34:12.980 And so it was kind of scary for me to going,

00:34:15.600 you know, going on there.

00:34:16.340 Cause I knew I'd get a lot of, you know, you

00:34:17.720 just say Lance Armstrong and you get a lot of

00:34:19.520 vitriol, but I saw a person trying to, to

00:34:24.000 have a fair and balanced discussion.

00:34:26.040 I think what he could, he couldn't get over

00:34:27.920 the vitriol.

00:34:28.580 He said when he was exposed, when, when he

00:34:33.040 confessed to his cheating, he said he did not

00:34:36.320 even get the shade then that he got asking for

00:34:40.260 fairness for women's sports. 0.97

00:34:42.220 And I thought that was absolutely, I mean, you

00:34:44.640 see how much shade is thrown at Lance Armstrong

00:34:46.760 when, when he, when he confessed that he was

00:34:49.540 doping and he said, this was, this was worse.

00:34:52.780 And I said, this is what we've been dealing

00:34:54.420 with.

00:34:55.440 Absolutely.

00:34:56.160 It's worse.

00:34:57.000 It's more vengeful.

00:34:58.900 It's more hateful.

00:35:00.040 It's more violent.

00:35:01.100 It's more personal.

00:35:02.640 I mean, the attacks that, that the opposition

00:35:04.960 has, um, they know what they're doing and

00:35:08.520 and they want to silence us.

00:35:10.160 They want to deter us.

00:35:11.380 And so I appreciate you going on with him and

00:35:13.900 talking with him.

00:35:14.880 I thought it was incredibly valuable perspectives.

00:35:17.740 Um, and I thought that he was able to learn a lot

00:35:20.980 from you and y'all's conversation.

00:35:22.860 Um, wrapping up, I wanted to give you an

00:35:26.180 opportunity to talk about the Inga Thompson

00:35:27.780 Foundation.

00:35:29.020 Um, please, would you, would you be willing to

00:35:31.040 do so?

00:35:31.400 Yeah, so I set up my foundation in 2017

00:35:35.520 thinking that I would be, and I still am doing

00:35:40.840 this, advocating for women, trying to get more

00:35:43.080 media, because if you have more media and the

00:35:45.720 women have more coverage, then more sponsorship 1.00

00:35:48.100 comes in.

00:35:49.320 I wanted to start at the top and come down.

00:35:52.860 And at the same time, this is when I really

00:35:56.400 started becoming aware of transgender women in the

00:35:58.960 sport and the impact that it was having.

00:36:02.960 And, and so I do work with women on, on many

00:36:06.620 layers and levels that I don't even know how to

00:36:09.300 go into, but not everything is about, you know,

00:36:13.180 coaching or giving them a bike.

00:36:15.000 There's so much emotional support that needs to

00:36:17.140 go on.

00:36:18.160 Women who have been great and the issues that they

00:36:23.800 have trying to sit on a saddle after they, I mean,

00:36:27.640 these are, these are some of the things that I've

00:36:29.940 taken on, women who are in abusive, um, contracts 0.99

00:36:34.800 with sponsors and how to help them get out of

00:36:37.180 this.

00:36:37.640 And, and so the, the foundation helps women in, in

00:36:40.880 many ways, other than just, hey, here's a bike

00:36:44.080 team, let's get on a bike team.

00:36:45.760 And then it kind of turned into this, we realized,

00:36:50.560 many of us realized that women's sports would be 1.00

00:36:52.900 gone in 20 years if we didn't tackle this topic

00:36:56.940 first.

00:36:57.940 And so the last few years, you know, the majority

00:37:00.180 of the emphasis has been on protecting women's

00:37:02.580 sports.

00:37:03.480 And then I hope to one day be able to put 100% of

00:37:08.060 my attention back to just, just the women. 0.97

00:37:11.640 And all in the meantime, we are grateful for you.

00:37:16.480 We are grateful for your voice.

00:37:17.940 We're grateful how you're advocating for us.

00:37:19.760 You're a megaphone.

00:37:20.460 And, um, you have been a trailblazer.

00:37:23.300 Again, you were ahead of the times.

00:37:25.300 I think a lot of people only became aware of this

00:37:28.580 happening in sports because of the Leah Thomas

00:37:31.220 situation and the national coverage that that got.

00:37:33.780 But you, you have been advocating for this far

00:37:36.060 beyond, um, even myself even knew it existed.

00:37:39.140 So, and likewise, you're taking on the whole Leah

00:37:43.520 Thomas is what really amplified this and around and kind

00:37:48.980 of allowed the rest of us to be heard.

00:37:50.480 Yeah.

00:37:50.580 We may have been speaking longer than you have, but we

00:37:54.460 weren't being heard.

00:37:55.380 And you had the voice that, that was heard because you had

00:38:00.860 that first one-on-one experience of being in the locker

00:38:05.960 rooms and the, and the losses that you suffered where the

00:38:08.960 rest of us are retired.

00:38:10.520 And I call it, you were the first one in the trenches to

00:38:14.100 really get loud.

00:38:14.920 And we so appreciate you.

00:38:17.740 Well, I'm very, um, I imagine we will continue having our

00:38:22.040 arms linked and creating an army of people behind us to do

00:38:25.360 just as we are.

00:38:27.100 Um, so again, thank you.

00:38:28.920 Thank you.

00:38:29.440 Thank you, Inga, for coming on.

00:38:31.720 Oh, thank you for having me.

00:38:34.340 Thanks for joining the Games for Girls podcast.

00:38:37.020 Make sure you check out this podcast at outkick.com or

00:38:40.560 anywhere where you stream your podcasts, Apple, Spotify,

00:38:43.260 whatever that looks like.

00:38:44.740 Um, we look forward to seeing you next week.

00:38:56.140 I'll see you next week.

00:39:01.480 Bye-bye.

00:39:02.560 Bye-bye.

00:39:06.720 Bye-bye.

00:39:07.100 Bye-bye.

00:39:07.260 Bye-bye.

00:39:07.420 Bye-bye.

00:39:07.600 Bye-bye.

00:39:08.160 Bye-bye.

00:39:09.400 Bye-bye.

00:39:10.400 Bye-bye.

00:39:12.100 Bye-bye.

00:39:17.100 Bye-bye.

00:39:17.740 Bye-bye.

00:39:19.180 Bye-bye.

00:39:19.980 Bye-bye.

00:39:20.260 Bye-bye.

00:39:21.020 Bye-bye.

00:39:21.800 Bye-bye.

00:39:22.040 Bye-bye.

00:39:22.960 Bye-bye.

Gaines for Girls with Riley Gaines - August 30, 2023

RILEY GAINES PODCAST： Inga Thompson's Fight For Fair Women's Sports

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