Karen Kerrigan is a certified health and wellness coach and the President and CEO of the Small Business and Entrepreneurship Council, an organization dedicated to promoting entrepreneurship and protecting small businesses. In this episode, we talk about how the MAHA movement intersects with the Make America Healthy Again movement.
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00:00:40.360Today's episode, we are going to be talking all things small business, entrepreneurship.
00:00:46.240Weirdly enough, how that intersects with the MAHA movement, the Make America Healthy Again movement.
00:00:52.800We saw a lot of news over the past really few weeks, over the past seven days of coming from RFK, coming from Brooke Rollins, coming from President Trump himself, surrounding making America healthy again.
00:01:05.820So we're going to get into all that today.
00:01:07.180But before we do, I want to tell you about today's sponsor for this episode.
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00:02:45.080We're talking today to Karen Kerrigan.
00:02:48.240She is a certified health and wellness coach.
00:02:51.720She is the founder of Steps to Wellness.
00:02:54.540She is the president and CEO of Small Business and Entrepreneurship Council, SBE Council.
00:03:02.200So very excited to get into this conversation with her today and to hear specifically how a lot of the things we're seeing from the Trump administration as it pertains to the big, beautiful bill, as it pertains to things like eliminating and terminating 22 mRNA contracts.
00:03:19.280We just saw that from RFK this past week.
00:03:24.180So if you want to hear all that and more, check out this interview here.
00:03:28.700Well, Karen, welcome to the GAINS for Girls podcast.
00:03:32.200I am so excited to have you on the different things that we are going to get into today.
00:03:37.060But before we do, will you just take a brief moment and tell us a little bit about yourself, your role, and how you got involved with where you are?
00:03:45.320I think specifically with the Maha movement, a lot of the meat of what I want to talk to you about today.
00:03:52.120Well, you know, I run a group called the Small Business and Entrepreneurship Council, and we're an advocacy research and education organization dedicated to promoting entrepreneurship, protecting small business.
00:04:05.200And I actually founded this group more than 30 years ago.
00:04:09.260So I've been at this for quite a long time, Riley, and focusing on the range of issues that impact entrepreneurship, healthy startup activity and small business growth, taxes, regulation, the cost of health care, technology, intellectual property, the whole range of issues.
00:04:26.840And have very much focused on, since our founding, the health care issue and access to affordable health care.
00:04:35.500And I mean, that's always been a critical issue for small business owners and their employees.
00:04:40.340And, you know, along the way, we've always noted that, you know, in order for businesses to have, individuals to have access, and for order for entrepreneurs to be able to be disruptors in this system and to be creators and to, you know, provide goods and services that match the needs of the marketplace, that you do need less regulation, that the government has to get out of the way.
00:05:08.820That it has to be, you know, that it has to be, you know, sort of promote entrepreneurship in this whole sector.
00:05:14.920I've always been big in the health and wellness, you know, space as an individual, as a former athlete, as, you know, high school, college athlete.
00:05:24.060My daughter was a, you know, a D1 athlete as well.
00:05:28.300And mental health, health, and small businesses are big players in this whole marketplace.
00:05:35.160The health and wellness sector is a $2 trillion sector in the U.S.
00:05:40.540It leads the global market in health and wellness.
00:05:45.060And small businesses, entrepreneurs are at the heart of this.
00:05:47.600And we want to make sure that when policies are being considered, they really are the solution to Tamaha and to, you know, having a transformative effect on the health and well-being of Americans.
00:06:18.120Speaking of the success of small businesses that you have seen, I would imagine that one of those pillars that small businesses especially have to kind of fight back against, especially in big cities, is crime.
00:06:32.920Now, I know you live a little bit outside of D.C., Washington, D.C.
00:06:37.560We saw just this week where President Trump has unveiled this new plan to keep Washington, D.C. safe.
00:06:46.340How does this impact you personally and, again, from the small business lens of America?
00:06:54.300Well, for small businesses, this is a huge issue.
00:06:57.780I mean, crime issues, the crime issue, particularly in urban areas.
00:07:02.840And the bottom line is that if urban America is to survive and do well, we need small businesses.
00:07:11.900You know, they are the economic driver of local communities throughout our nation.
00:07:16.580And certainly that is the case in urban America.
00:07:59.500This is central to an ecosystem that supports small business creation and successful growth is to have a safe environment and to have, you know, limited crime in a crime-free environment.
00:08:14.920Or businesses are not going to start up.
00:08:18.240They're going to go to the suburbs or to other areas where they actually, you know, have people and feel safe and can conduct their business.
00:08:28.100I was amazed to hear some of these statistics that he was rattling off in his press conference this week saying that Washington, D.C. had a higher murder rate than, I mean, some of the worst countries like like Bogota or Colombia or, of course, cities in those countries.
00:08:47.700So, if there's anyone that can do it, I believe it's President Trump.
00:08:52.460I think it's kind of the Trump way is to do in one day what has taken, I mean, or I guess what D.C. politicians haven't done in decades.
00:09:01.080So, hopefully, we will see some big progress there.
00:09:03.520I kind of want to ask you about some of the relevant news surrounding the MAHA movement.
00:09:10.480I will say, I think the MAGA collab, if you will, was one of the most transformative, effective collaborations that we saw leading up, especially to the election.
00:09:22.900To bring so many people on board, so many people who care about health and wellness and fitness and the future of the next generation.
00:09:31.280I thought it was just one of the most remarkable things.
00:09:34.340And to see that everything that RFK has done prior to being confirmed, being confirmed since, one of those things being just this week, we saw where the HHS announced that they would terminate.
00:09:47.720I believe it was 22 mRNA vaccine development investments, simply saying, look, this data, it shows that these vaccines fail to protect effectively against upper respiratory infections like COVID and the flu.
00:10:01.280This was over $500 million in funding.
00:10:07.140That's what was pulled from these contracts.
00:10:09.680He said these mRNA technology, they pose more risk than they do benefits.
00:10:15.320I want to ask you, when something like this happens, is big pharma really going to be sweating?
00:10:25.080I mean, obviously, when you look at the entire innovative ecosystem, right?
00:10:31.280You know, which includes not only big pharma, but also, like every industry in this country, Riley, they are dominated by innovative small businesses.
00:10:43.920So, you know, you do have, particularly in the biopharmaceutical industry, 85% of those companies have fewer than 50 employees.
00:10:56.080So, you know, there is sort of a downstream effect on an action like that, what it means for innovation and what it means for the industry.
00:11:05.880Okay, so I think, you know, there's obviously a lot of concern within the industry itself and, you know, what that means for, you know, innovation moving forward.
00:11:17.620And I think with any industry, they do want certainty, right?
00:11:21.740In terms of what are the rules, what are the regulations, what are we going to allow in terms of research and development and getting drugs to the finish line?
00:11:31.180Because it does take more than 10 years and billions and billions and billions of dollars, you know, of R&D to get drugs over the finish line.
00:11:40.600So, I think with this announcement, I think we need a what's next.
00:11:44.420I think we need, okay, what is the broader message in terms of drug R&D and in terms of, because, look, there's been a lot of progress, as you know, Riley, right, when it comes to biopharmaceuticals and drugs and medical devices and, you know, the progress that we've made.
00:12:04.240Like, yeah, there's been a lot of disease in this country and we've been more focused on the reactive as opposed to the proactive end.
00:12:10.560And that's where I think small businesses can make a difference in terms of the transformative changes and being more proactive as opposed to addressing disease after it happens.
00:12:22.600But I do think, you know, my hope now is that there is like, okay, what is next?
00:12:28.780Is there going to be one-size-fits-all mandates?
00:12:30.840Are we developing a new system where we can move drugs more rapidly to market?
00:12:35.780What are going to be the checks and balances?
00:12:37.580What is the research that is going to be used?
00:12:40.420So, I think these are the questions that I hear from some of the smaller innovators in the ecosystem because this does have a downstream impact on them.
00:12:51.500And I hope we're just not throwing the baby out with the bathwater and just say, yeah, we are really committed still to innovative solutions in this whole space because this is where America leads.
00:13:03.500And we want to continue to be the leader in innovation in this regard.
00:13:08.500Yeah, and you mentioned being proactive.
00:13:11.640This is something that we see other countries do far better than the U.S.
00:13:16.380Obviously, I think because when you have these pharmaceutical companies or insurers or healthcare facilities or whatever it is who are able to profit off of us as Americans being sick,
00:13:27.920there's not necessarily a huge incentive to prioritize preventative measures, but certainly something that hopefully we see more from this administration.
00:13:40.720And I know last week, President Trump, I think he sent 17 or letters to, I think, 17 of the leading pharmaceutical companies outlining steps that they must take to lower these prescription drug prices for Americans,
00:13:55.260including matching the lowest prices offered in these other developed nations, saying something to the effect of,
00:14:02.140there is no reason why American consumers should pay exorbitantly more than other countries for the same drug in the same packaging manufactured in the exact same factory.
00:14:13.860So hopefully, again, we see some sort of what's next action that will in turn benefit consumers, people who need these medications, and small businesses especially.
00:14:26.800We saw just last week where USDA Secretary Brooke Rollins, who is awesome, by the way, and RFK,
00:14:36.820they announced that states can now opt out of allowing for junk food to be purchased using SNAP benefits,
00:14:45.240meaning our tax dollars are no longer required to fund hot Cheetos and soda for those who are living on food stamps.
00:14:59.180I think, you know, this is a huge education issue, as you know, Riley, and where we really,
00:15:07.340where I'm very passionate about, you know, in terms of ways that the business community, you know,
00:15:13.160can work with organizations like schools in terms of educating youth and educating families about the importance of real food, right?
00:15:23.340And how junk food and, you know, the preservatives and everything that's put into that, how it affects development along the way, brain development, health.
00:15:35.460So I think that's one small change, but I think there's a cultural shift and a cultural change and an opportunity for the administration to lead and take this Maha movement to the next level in terms of education.
00:15:51.840And so that, yeah, so, and of course, policies, you're right, that can encourage people to be more healthy, right?
00:16:03.640Being able to use health savings accounts, dollars, allowing people to use that for gym memberships or, you know, other type of proactive, preemptive, you know, type of care for themselves that then will lower the cost in the back end, right?
00:16:19.700I mean, lower the cost of health care overall.
00:16:22.520So, yeah, there's so many more policy steps that need to be taken widely that we're pushing and, but we're making great progress.
00:16:30.140And we saw some of those in the big, beautiful bill as well.
00:22:09.520What are kind of some of the bigger things you're working on as it pertains to entrepreneurship, which I believe is really able to thrive under this administration, especially small businesses or, I guess, all in conjunction with the Maha movement?
00:22:26.660Well, I think the big thing is the implementation and execution around the One Big Beautiful Bill.
00:22:34.340And we're doing a lot of education right now across the country on what was in it and how it benefits small businesses.
00:22:41.640Obviously, permanency in terms of many of the tax provisions, the 20% small business deduction, immediate expensing, research and development.
00:22:51.980This is huge, Riley, in terms of this being restored and being made permanent.
00:22:57.040This is going to have a massive impact on innovation in this country, our innovative global competitiveness, the next sort of industries, right?
00:23:11.460I mean, we're seeing how AI is taking hold and having a transformative effect.
00:23:15.260So we're pushing the administration to look at we need some clear guidance around these rules so that small businesses and entrepreneurs take advantage of them because there's immediate advantages that they can have this year.
00:23:28.180There are some things that were left out of the Big Beautiful Bill that we're going to continue to push on the health care front that we think align with everything that the president wants to accomplish on Maha.
00:23:43.060And again, it all involves health care policy, health care reform, transparency in terms of health care pricing, pharmaceutical pricing, you know, again, with health savings accounts, allowing individuals and families to use them for, you know, more proactive type of health care needs.
00:24:05.860It's pushing hard on the telehealth front in terms of access to broadband, quality broadband, innovation in that whole space.
00:24:16.780And then just generally entrepreneurship, Riley, more and more people want to start businesses, right?
00:24:26.260And they just need an environment that supports them on the tax and regulatory side.
00:24:31.380So there's a lot of regulatory baggage from the last administration, a lot that we're unwinding and working to get rid of right now because it was very harmful to self-employment, entrepreneurship and people growing businesses.
00:24:47.740So we're cleaning out, you know, a lot of that regulatory garbage and really trying to instill reforms for the long term that are going to lock in a lot of the gains and the vision that President Trump has for MAGA, you know, and it all begins with strengthening entrepreneurship and small businesses in this country because they're the heart and soul of our economy.
00:25:12.780Yeah, and it's it's it's a perk of having a businessman as president as he is someone who has been able to benefit from these things.
00:25:21.560So really, really important stuff, again, especially on the education piece of the big, beautiful bill.
00:25:29.600Obviously, when you have something so comprehensive and so holistic, there's a lot that gets lost in the weeds.
00:25:38.520So thank you for for being willing to educate both small business owners or those affiliated with small businesses and entrepreneurs.
00:25:48.140But I think more broadly, the public, I listen to you say the things that you're saying, and I'm like, who could be opposed to any of these things?
00:25:55.060Like, I can't believe there's an entire political party that opposes things that, again, you would imagine 90 percent, if not more of Americans would be able to fully get behind.
00:26:10.380And it's more than just tax stuff, too.
00:26:12.120You know, it had air traffic control improvements, energy affordability so broad, you know, in terms of, you know, the positive impact that it's going to have on the economy and people's lives in general.
00:26:45.720You can argue some of the other stuff, whether it's it's maybe more of the cultural stuff.
00:26:50.200OK, sure, there's always been disagreements there on on how people govern in that way.
00:26:56.620But but these things, again, that just make it easier for Americans to live their lives and to to succeed and to thrive should certainly be more bipartisan.
00:27:07.320So thank you for leading that effort and making it as such.