Gaines for Girls with Riley Gaines - December 27, 2023


Speaking the Truth with Sage Steele


Episode Stats


Length

37 minutes

Words per minute

187.03526

Word count

7,068

Sentence count

461

Harmful content

Misogyny

17

sentences flagged

Toxicity

6

sentences flagged

Hate speech

7

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Sage Steele is one of the most respected broadcasters in the country. She was at ESPN for 16 years, hosting the network s flagship show, SportsCenter. She is humble, kind, courageous, bold, and beautiful. And really, she is the embodiment of a strong woman.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.540 Okay, only 10 more presents to wrap. You're almost at the finish line, but first...
00:00:10.980 There, the last one. Enjoy a Coca-Cola for a pause that refreshes.
00:00:18.040 Welcome back to the Gains for Girls podcast. Today's guest is the person that has been the
00:00:32.760 biggest role model for me. She is certainly the person that I look up to most in this entire space.
00:00:39.240 She is one of the country's most popular and well-respected broadcasters. Most recently,
00:00:44.660 she was at ESPN for about 16 years hosting the network's flagship show, SportsCenter. She is
00:00:51.600 humble. She is kind. She is incredible. She is courageous. She is bold. She's beautiful.
00:00:58.680 And really, she's the embodiment of a strong woman. So check out the episode here with Sage Steele.
00:01:04.900 Well, Sage, can I just tell you that you are probably my biggest role model and the person
00:01:10.360 that I look up to most in this whole space. You are always smiling. I've never heard a hateful
00:01:17.020 or mean thing come out of your mouth. You speak the truth. You're beautiful. And you embody a strong
00:01:23.880 woman. So thank you for joining today and thank you for your boldness. I couldn't be more grateful
00:01:30.480 for you, really. No. Oh my gosh. I'm hugging you through our screen here. Thank you. And that means
00:01:38.040 a lot to me coming from you, a strong woman who is an example for me as well, by the way.
00:01:44.260 Doesn't matter our age difference, you know, and you for so many millions of women out there and men,
00:01:51.140 my daughters, my son. It's just, it's amazing. So despite all this chaos, which I hate that you've
00:01:56.060 had to go through, there's so many silver linings, I think. And, and this meeting to me is such a
00:02:02.720 blessing. Absolutely. And, and speaking of chaos, you know, it just as well. And I think a lot of
00:02:09.700 people kind of know the gist of your story. Of course you were with ESPN and then suddenly you
00:02:15.320 weren't. And so I just wanted you to start by, you know, briefly taking us through what you
00:02:21.240 personally experienced. Oh, that's a, yeah. Okay. The word brief. Yeah. Well, um, it just,
00:02:31.880 it was years in the, you say, okay, I was at ESPN and then I, I wasn't true, but it really was years
00:02:36.960 in the making. I will tell you this and I'll just go backwards. Um, I know I'm exactly where I'm
00:02:42.500 supposed to be at this moment, even though this moment is still a little bit, um, you know, I'm still
00:02:47.800 a little bit uncomfortable because I was just saying this to my parents the other day. Um,
00:02:51.720 like for my entire career, which is 28 years older than you are, Riley. Oh God, I'm aging myself. Um,
00:02:59.240 I've been, I've lived in structure. I'm the daughter of a retired army Colonel, a West Point graduate.
00:03:05.500 Here comes the dog. Come on in lately. You want to say hi to Riley? Okay. Um, and like all I've ever
00:03:11.080 done is, is lived and thrived in structure. And when you're doing live television every day,
00:03:15.800 there's so much prep that goes into it and you cannot be late. So now I'm learning to live
00:03:20.060 outside of structure and I have to create it on my own. So it's been a little bit of a challenge.
00:03:23.540 Um, but I gotta tell you, um, I've lived in fear for many, many years, like fear, fear of disappointing
00:03:32.780 others, fear of disappointing myself, fear of not being liked fear of everything. I just, I look back
00:03:40.660 and I'm like, God, I was so afraid with a good heart. Right. I was well-intended. Um, and I think
00:03:45.860 now that I, I, I hit that point where I knew that I had, if I didn't stand up for myself,
00:03:51.260 um, it was now or never. And then I would always regret it. You know what I mean? I knew I would
00:03:56.480 regret it. And I knew that I would have to live with it forever. And, um, I'd be embarrassed
00:04:03.220 that at a moment that I had an opportunity and a big platform that I chose to shrink. Like I had my
00:04:09.200 whole life and I just said enough. Um, so listen to the decision to stand up for myself based on how
00:04:16.580 I was treated, which was, um, completely differently from those who fit a different narrative, um,
00:04:23.100 was heartbreaking and devastating and all of the things. Right. Um, but I, I, I just, I said this
00:04:30.940 to Megan Kelly on Megan show. Like I didn't know what my line was until it was crossed. And then I was
00:04:35.460 like, Oh, hell no. Now I'm done. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Now you made me angry. But anyway, that was
00:04:41.140 a convoluted answer. It was 16, 17 years at my dream, dream, dream job. And the last five, six,
00:04:47.120 seven, they just kept pounding me because I was different and I wasn't following their narrative.
00:04:50.180 And I just would stay silent and stay silent. And then I'm like, enough, you can't allow all my
00:04:54.660 coworkers to go on ESPN platforms and on NBA shows and NFL and do all these things and talk about
00:05:00.680 Roe versus Wade or, or, or ignore, for instance, ignoring the Leah Thomas, Riley Gaines story. I
00:05:06.680 asked for months to talk about that and they quieted me. So fine. And so I went on social media
00:05:12.300 and I was told to be quiet on social media. And I was like, Nope, because I support women and you
00:05:16.440 can't say we support women and then not support women. Um, and I just got tired and sad and said
00:05:21.240 enough. So I, I hope that by standing up and then yeah, filing a lawsuit who files a lawsuit against
00:05:27.020 their company when they're still working there, not exactly what the plan was. And I still am
00:05:31.900 overwhelmed at that. Um, but to, to settle it to me as a, it is a win because it was like,
00:05:38.640 no, I'm not going to be quiet anymore. It's too late for me. I knew my career there was over,
00:05:45.700 but for the others, friends who are still there, people who don't even like me there,
00:05:49.520 people at other companies, I'm like, it's now or never. And I, um, I know that if we are silent,
00:05:56.640 we are complicit. Absolutely. That's what I believe. It just, I hope it doesn't take
00:06:01.540 everybody else 50 years to get to where I got. No. And you're exactly right. Uh, silence is
00:06:07.600 complicity. That's what I saw. Um, at least, you know, being in the position that I was in
00:06:12.500 kind of naively waiting for someone else to do the right thing. Uh, I realized we would be waiting
00:06:18.220 forever if we, if we waited for that. Uh, but you're right. I think you're, you're setting the
00:06:23.640 precedent, uh, for everyone else that comes behind you. Um, which is just incredibly admirable.
00:06:31.080 Um, and so you've kind of seen this cancel culture unfold now for a while and among different
00:06:39.000 topics, right? You, uh, I would imagine, you know, all the COVID stuff, of course, the, the men and
00:06:44.160 women's sports stuff, the BLM stuff, not standing for the national anthem, all kinds of these cultural
00:06:48.800 issues that, that ESPN has kind of taken on, uh, from, from one side of, of the aisle. Right.
00:06:55.180 Uh, so you've seen this for a while and now that you're kind of, I guess a little bit removed from
00:07:01.460 that space, do you see it increasing? Is it becoming more and more prominent?
00:07:09.240 Hmm. You know, it's a good question and it's one that I can't answer because I have not turned on
00:07:17.100 the TV. Good for you for months. Yeah. At first it was because I was like, Oh, this is going to be
00:07:24.360 too hard because I will say this. I loved my show. I loved sports center. I did the noon to two, uh,
00:07:30.120 Eastern time for the last three years. I love my co-host, Matt Berry. I love my teammates. I love
00:07:34.360 my producers. I love them. And I was so heartbroken to have to say goodbye to them. So I was like, I can't
00:07:39.660 do this. And then I was like, this is kind of nice. And here's the problem. When you are around
00:07:46.260 something for so long, you know, you see what everybody else sees when you're watching on TV,
00:07:51.000 but when you know how everything happens in the background, how it's all made, you know?
00:07:57.320 Yeah. Ooh. I was like, I can't watch this because I know that this isn't genuine, you know? Um, so
00:08:03.000 it's just been easier for me to stay in touch with people elsewhere and not watching. Um, let's certainly
00:08:07.520 on, on X and stuff, I see things. Um, I thought it was very interesting. Um, recently Disney,
00:08:15.080 which obviously owns ESPN and ABC acknowledged in that sec filing that basically they'd gone too
00:08:21.920 woke and that it has affected their bottom line. And I'm like, you think, I mean, and I'm just like
00:08:29.260 one small part of that. I mean, I, I, um, you know, I guess I'm shrapnel from that decision where
00:08:36.460 let's crush her because she's on the more conservative side and speaks for herself in issues of, 1.00
00:08:42.760 you know, with the vaccine mandate, not the vaccine, the mandate, uh, and choosing to, um,
00:08:48.380 celebrate my entire heritage, white and black. I'm, I'm 50% each, not just choosing one based on
00:08:53.740 what the narrative says, uh, how I, how I, uh, believe just with some of the comments I've made
00:08:58.460 about, uh, women professionally in sports and, um, all those things that got me canceled basically.
00:09:04.160 And it's like, wait, I wonder, cause I said those things two years ago, originally, I wonder if
00:09:09.840 now, if I said it now, would I, would I be canceled? Maybe, maybe not the end of the day,
00:09:15.060 ESPN for years, did a wonderful job under our new president, our, uh, their new president,
00:09:20.440 Jimmy Pitaro has been there for like five years. And at first when he was there, it was incredible
00:09:24.540 because he was like, we are not doing politics. I go back to Michael Jordan, Riley and Michael
00:09:29.360 Jordan in the eighties said, Republicans buy sneakers too. And hello. It's so basic. Like
00:09:34.840 it's so basic. And so I think, don't we want everybody watching ESPN and going to, to theaters,
00:09:40.240 seeing all of our Disney movies, or are we just catering to one side now and choosing a side?
00:09:44.260 That's what they've done. It's been costly to the tune of millions, billions of dollars, maybe.
00:09:49.580 Um, so I, I, I, the fact that they acknowledged it is great. And I was pleasantly surprised to see
00:09:55.880 them acknowledge it. That's not something that big corporations usually do. Um, but I,
00:09:59.340 I think that a lot of damage has been done. Um, and I don't know if there's any, if there's any
00:10:03.920 coming back or turning back for a lot of parents out there who like me, when my kids were little,
00:10:08.640 it was all about Disney. I know so many people now who are like, no, I'm so sad, but I'm done.
00:10:14.460 You can't even go to the park right now. We, the Disney parks, you walk in and remember it was
00:10:18.960 Mickey mouse. Hi boys and girls. They don't say boys and girls anymore. You know, like, so I don't
00:10:23.660 know how much you can get back. Um, but I, I, I, I do think that, um, maybe they've tried to,
00:10:30.360 to pull back, scale back on things. I think it's too late in many ways for ESPN as well.
00:10:36.260 Yeah, I agree. And it's not just ESPN and Disney, you know, you look at all these companies,
00:10:40.940 uh, of course, but like even Harvard now, uh, I imagine people won't be sending their kids to
00:10:47.460 Harvard and it's because it's too late. They had the chance. A lot of these, well, what used to be
00:10:51.900 called prestigious universities, uh, the stances they've taken that really how they've doubled down
00:10:58.500 on the stances they've taken. Uh, I imagine that would hurt them. I think any American, uh, would be
00:11:05.920 willing and ready to act on that by, by not giving them their money. And you have to think about
00:11:11.200 Disney, for example, uh, they've seen their, their stock plummet answer to shareholders. I can't
00:11:17.900 imagine shareholders in this are happy. Exactly. I, and I, well, I, I think that that's why they've
00:11:24.400 had to acknowledge some things, right? I'd love to be a fly on the wall in those boardrooms just to
00:11:29.220 hear those, those conversations. And over the last couple of years too. Um, and that, and that's the
00:11:33.640 thing I've, I've always just, I used to beg and producers and my bosses, I mean, we'd have some
00:11:38.460 really good conversations when they were still talking to me the last two years. No one did
00:11:41.440 certainly when I, my loss, it was active. And I was like, they're like, stay away from her.
00:11:45.380 No one talked to her. Um, and you know, I would say, God, what are we doing? Why are we choosing
00:11:51.260 any side like to me and you know, you as a, as a former top level D one athlete, right? Like,
00:11:59.800 um, sports is what brings us together. Like on a football Sunday for three hours,
00:12:06.500 if you're a fan of the giants or the Raiders or whoever it is, your race, your gender, your
00:12:12.040 politics, your socioeconomic status, nothing matters on a Sunday or for anything. You're just
00:12:17.020 cheering for your team. And sometimes I've turned to people and you hug a stranger, right? Because
00:12:21.560 your team just scored. That's the beauty of sport. And so it was devastating for me as a fan. Number
00:12:27.660 one, as a journalist, number two, and as a loyal employee of the company that I loved to see us
00:12:32.380 choosing, choosing to divide. And I think that that is what I hope ESPN is learning now. Um,
00:12:39.500 especially over the last couple of years, I hope Disney is, I hope Bud Light, I hope all of the
00:12:43.580 companies are, but the colleges and universities, um, maybe that's the silver lining of all of the
00:12:48.560 ugliness, right? Is that now this is being exposed as a mother of three, I already have two in college 1.00
00:12:53.040 at High Point university, which stands for freedom. It's an incredible place in North Carolina.
00:12:57.220 Um, their motto is God, family, country. And, and it's not like it's a religious institution. It
00:13:02.680 just, it's like, Hey, this is what we're made of. Um, but they don't make you, they don't force you to
00:13:06.980 do things. They don't allow hate speech. I have one more daughter that's getting ready to go to college. 0.94
00:13:11.400 She's choosing. Let me tell you, I don't care if she were the valedictorian and had a 4.5 GPA and 1.00
00:13:17.540 got into all of those elite institutions. Absolutely not. That is not where you're going. And you know
00:13:22.960 what? She wouldn't even need to hear it from me. My 17 year old daughter knows she doesn't want to 1.00
00:13:27.280 be around people that not just speak that way, but more importantly, in many ways, the people who
00:13:31.860 tolerate it, it is do or die time now for us as Americans, as employees, as employers, as parents
00:13:41.020 to take these stances and say, absolutely not. The only way sadly to hit them is in the wallet.
00:13:47.360 And that's what seems to be happening with Disney. When you look at Penn and their donors who are
00:13:52.160 saying, no, I'm going to keep my a hundred million dollars. How do you like that? It's the only way.
00:13:57.480 Uh, I think it's do or die time for Christians as well, because I think we've reached this point 1.00
00:14:02.040 where even Christians are kind of turning the other cheek. Uh, but like you said, eyes are being opened.
00:14:07.100 Uh, I think, uh, hearts are being softened, which I pray for every single day. Um, but, but despite all
00:14:14.520 that now, of course, at least from what I've seen, since I've entered into this space, uh, you've
00:14:19.840 always been a champion, a champion for women, but now, uh, a very public champion for women, especially
00:14:25.500 of course, women in sports. But I just have to ask, uh, you know, I know there was probably a lot 0.62
00:14:31.120 of conversations behind closed doors, but I just want to know, you know, have you felt support from
00:14:37.620 your colleagues, especially women? Uh, because I remember during women's history month back in March of this
00:14:43.980 year, there was a special, an ESPN special that came out showcasing, you know, women's history
00:14:49.360 month. Um, and the special was surrounding Leah Thomas, uh, and how brave he is and how, how
00:14:56.080 inspiring he is and how much adversity he had to overcome and persecution to, to, uh, achieve the
00:15:03.120 seemingly impossible by winning a national title. Um, and I remember watching this and hearing the
00:15:09.400 voiceover, of course, noticing it was a woman who did the voiceover. And I just remember thinking to
00:15:14.580 myself, you know, I could not imagine being a woman working there, being asked to report on this
00:15:20.780 issue with a smile on my face. Uh, and so I just kind of wanted to ask about the support you felt
00:15:27.140 from women, uh, since of course, taking the stands that you have. None, none, which is not shocking. 0.99
00:15:34.780 However, um, I'll start with the positive, which is Samantha Ponder. And I know that you got to meet
00:15:40.180 Sam and she's been a dear friend of mine for about 15 years. Um, uh, and her, her maiden name is
00:15:46.160 Steele. So Sam Steele, Sage Steele, we're, we're like, we're twins. We're related. Um, and she and I
00:15:52.840 talked after I had begun to speak up, which was right, right after your tweet, I think. Um, and, and she,
00:16:00.420 we talked and she's like, Sage, I want to speak up so badly too. What do I do? And first of all,
00:16:06.020 Sam is one of the smartest, um, most wise women I've ever been around in my life. And, um, she knew
00:16:12.400 what she needed to do and, and she did it in her time. And I think over the summer decided to speak
00:16:17.180 up as well, but it's literally just been, um, Sam and me and that's it. I'll say that, you know,
00:16:23.840 obviously I was still at ESPN in March and I remember coming to work a day or two after
00:16:29.400 all of those aired. Um, and, and the Leah Thomas one aired in particular. And I was on the set
00:16:35.240 sitting next to the woman who voiced it over. And I just remember wanting to ask her like,
00:16:39.860 really? You have daughters. What do you really believe this? Um, I didn't because it's not worth
00:16:46.780 it at some point, right? People are gonna do what they're going to do. I do know that, um, you know,
00:16:51.540 we were all, all the women on sports and we're asked to voice over, uh, several of those little
00:16:56.880 clips. And I did two or three of the female athletes and they were great. I was not asked
00:17:01.620 to do the Leah Thomas one, probably strategically. They know what I would have said. Um, and the thing
00:17:07.560 is, is I'd been asking for months to talk about this story on our show. We had two hours live every
00:17:13.040 day and we never, ever, ever did it. And that was disappointing because we do a lot of things
00:17:17.060 incredibly well, especially on the show I was on. We were, we were awesome. Um, but I,
00:17:21.540 I, I, when I saw it air, I was just heartbroken, especially as someone, I mean, for the last
00:17:27.120 for, from 2010 through 2021, I was, um, kind of the face of ESPNW, our, our women's summit.
00:17:33.840 And it was women in sport and it was all about uplifting women and making sure that we are
00:17:38.040 seen and heard and represented in our highlights on sports center, um, salaries and all the stuff
00:17:43.420 that we've talked about with the women's soccer team, like so many things. And, and as kind
00:17:47.920 of the face of it, I, I was all about women, women, women as one with daughters, all of
00:17:54.140 the above. And I thought, what, what are we doing? Then I had more and more conversations,
00:17:59.360 um, with some people who were in the boardrooms meeting, talking about this before they all,
00:18:06.960 all those montages, all of them aired. And a couple of people were like, and these are men
00:18:11.580 in the room who are saying, what are we doing? There are so many other women to choose from. 1.00
00:18:17.600 And we're choosing a man. We're choosing Leah Thomas. Why, why go there? Why do this? And so
00:18:23.760 there were people in those meetings that I know who spoke up, who were ignored. So it was strategic.
00:18:31.060 Um, they saved it, him. I'm with you. I say him, not her, uh, for the last one, I think too.
00:18:37.300 Right. I think that was the last one to air. Um, yeah, yeah, it was beautiful. Um, that disgusted
00:18:45.260 me. I'll also say this. I mean, I was, um, I was asked to stop tweeting about it. I was asked to stop,
00:18:53.680 um, doing anything, saying anything about it on social media because I was, um, offending others
00:18:58.960 at the company. I made sure I sent off another tweet that night after I received that email.
00:19:04.320 Um, because like, no, and let's stop living in this lie. And once again, oh, you're going to,
00:19:10.860 you're going to silence me and Sam. She was told the same thing, you know, for this issue,
00:19:16.200 but then we're going to let everybody else talk about all these other things that are not even
00:19:20.260 related to sports on our sports programming. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. If we're going to
00:19:24.660 preach on ESPN W and all of these things, and I'm going to stand up for all these women,
00:19:28.560 many of whom are afraid to do what Riley Gaines is doing, to do what, what I'm doing at a much
00:19:34.020 lesser level than Riley than you. Right. But just no. And so that, that I actually said this to
00:19:41.680 myself as I was sending a tweet, the first tweet about, you know, standing up and supporting you.
00:19:47.460 I said, I already had the lawsuit going, you know, I mean, whatever. I didn't know how it was going to
00:19:52.320 end, but I literally said, this is a hill I will die on a hundred percent because it is,
00:19:58.580 it is facts. This is not even my opinion about a vaccine mandate or whatever. Like these are facts.
00:20:05.720 This is science. This is biology. This is all of the things come at me. Tell me I'm wrong. Tell me
00:20:10.920 to stop supporting women. Go ahead. Tell me. Yeah, exactly. Um, and, and that was exactly my point 1.00
00:20:17.880 during the hearing last week. Um, when, you know, representative Lee sits there and calls me names,
00:20:25.200 calls me a transphobic bigot, but she doesn't acknowledge what she is, which is someone who has 0.75
00:20:31.800 a very blatant bias and really, I would say contempt for women, uh, which we call a misogynist. So it is
00:20:40.040 interesting how it's kind of like rules for the, but not, or rules for the, but not for me, you know,
00:20:45.520 but then, but then to get it, try to get stricken from the record, the panic, but yeah, but that's
00:20:50.640 something you faced, uh, for a really long time. And so that's why I just couldn't have been more
00:20:56.240 excited. Um, when I saw your tweet, so just know you were making a difference in my life
00:21:01.980 and then so many others, uh, you, you inspired, um, thank you. Thank you. Can I just real quick
00:21:08.560 say that I, I do believe that there are a lot of other women at ESPN who agree with me,
00:21:14.080 agreed with me when I was there. Um, and I think many of them, um, just had the fear,
00:21:20.620 the fear that I understand and that I lived with for years, you know, um, and women who have to 1.00
00:21:25.860 support their families. And I understand, I understand that, but here's the thing. And I
00:21:30.000 said this publicly on social media as well. Um, I think that we are so underestimating our power.
00:21:36.720 And if we would just come together on this, we would be unstoppable. So we're seeing it in other
00:21:44.840 ways where, you know, at powerlifting events or cycling events or other sports where, where women 0.99
00:21:49.500 are saying, no, I'm not going to, we're not going to play. And then what happens? The whole event gets
00:21:54.080 shut down. Now it's, it is pathetic that we even have to do that. Right. Um, but unfortunately it 0.79
00:22:00.340 feels like it's the only way if they do it. Um, and so as journalists, can you imagine if all the
00:22:08.820 women came together and said enough with this, they, it would be, we would be such a powerful force
00:22:15.620 and, and we have chosen to be silent and weak about this. And let me throw this in. It's funny
00:22:21.960 because what comes at you, um, when you do stand up, like I thought I was doing the right thing. I know
00:22:27.940 I am, but when I get thrown under the bus by Megan Rapinoe, which she's comical in many ways, 0.98
00:22:34.580 so sad that such a great player, a great career has turned into this is she, her mouth and her
00:22:40.900 actions have taken away from her greatness on the field. And that's what breaks my heart as a fan of
00:22:45.680 hers and of the sport. Um, but when she put me in a sentence with a time magazine article, it was
00:22:51.580 me and Martina Navratilova and Dave Chappelle who are standing up for, for women, um, women's sports
00:23:00.260 and saying, sorry, no biological men in our sports, that she says that we are inciting violence against
00:23:05.280 trans people. Like people like Megan Rapinoe have lost their minds and they can need, we need to
00:23:12.180 continue to call them on it because it's not just our opinions that are backing us up. It is facts.
00:23:17.280 Hashtag science. Absolutely. Yeah. That's, that's the tactics they choose to use is really
00:23:23.660 fear-mongering, you know, telling you basically equating you to a murderer. If you speak out
00:23:28.160 saying you will have blood on your hands, if you advocate for fair sport and privacy in areas of
00:23:33.920 undressing, uh, which you're, you're exactly right. I was a big fan of Megan Rapinoe. Granted, no, we don't
00:23:39.200 necessarily agree on much, but like you said, that didn't matter because she is an amazing player.
00:23:45.000 Uh, she had an amazing career. Uh, she did a lot for women's sports in terms of fighting for, 1.00
00:23:50.520 for what she fought for equal access, equal resources, uh, equal pay different things. Uh, 1.00
00:23:55.680 she, I, I really would have considered her a feminist, a hardcore feminist, but now, 0.99
00:24:00.100 oh my gosh, forget that. She is not a feminist. She had us all deceived. Uh, she's a, a virtue 1.00
00:24:05.800 signaling. Uh, I mean, and I would just, she's a virtue signaler. That's what she's doing. Um, 0.99
00:24:11.380 by fighting for inclusion, which is really, as we know, exclusion. Um, yes. And conveniently as her
00:24:18.340 career ends. Yeah. Right. Exactly. She knows she wouldn't have had the opportunities and success 1.00
00:24:22.860 that she had, had men been allowed to take her spots. Everyone has seen, uh, the U S women's 1.00
00:24:28.660 national soccer team lose to, uh, I believe the 15 and under high school boys team or whatever it was
00:24:35.680 and a blowout. Everyone's about that. And we know it's not sexist to say that we would expect that to
00:24:41.820 happen. No, that's, that's trusting again, like you said, science and logic and reasoning, uh, fact
00:24:48.360 lived experience. Um, and I, I loved, I, well, I saw of course the article that came, Nancy armor,
00:24:55.660 who came after, um, Sam. Yeah. And she just responded back with like, biology is not bigotry. And I love
00:25:03.560 that. And that's so true. Um, but I, I've heard you several times and in several different posts
00:25:08.520 and different, different things you've done, talk about your why, uh, you know, why you stand tall,
00:25:14.700 why you push back, why you advocate really for transparency and consistency, I would say.
00:25:19.640 Uh, but I want to give you the opportunity to share your why, because I think it's important.
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00:25:54.260 Hmm. Um, I, I just think again, I lived in fear. It makes me emotional.
00:26:01.820 I lived in fear for so long and it was very costly and that was professionally and personally,
00:26:10.800 you know? So, um, I got tired and I felt like a hypocrite as a mother of three and trying to raise
00:26:22.060 strong humans and two strong daughters as well. Um, and my son who has witnessed my strength in many ways,
00:26:31.800 um, going into work and fighting in a man's world. And this, this crazy little dream I had to be a
00:26:37.000 sportscaster when I was a shy, shy young girl and being told no, and then you fight, you fight.
00:26:43.000 And then, and then when it comes crunch time and it gets a little hard, you go quiet, you stop. 0.89
00:26:50.840 I just felt like a hypocrite. And if I didn't speak up, then what am I, 0.83
00:26:55.860 why would my kids ever do the same? You know? Um, I think my otherwise, because, um, you know,
00:27:04.780 it has to do with just my upbringing, uh, as a, uh, daughter of a, of a white mother and a black
00:27:11.440 father, very proud of my background and being biracial. Um, I feel like I had the best of both
00:27:17.360 worlds as a kid, Riley, and I still do, you know, especially in such a divisive world. Um, I,
00:27:22.620 I, I didn't see color. I didn't as one of those, I just saw love and I, or hate whatever, but I knew
00:27:29.320 who my people were and it didn't matter if they were green or blue or Democrats or Republicans
00:27:32.740 or poor or rich. Like there were nobody rich in my family, by the way, like it was just love,
00:27:36.660 you know? And so, um, I lived in diversity. I grew up in such a diverse background. And to then,
00:27:44.360 um, to me, the most important part of diversity is diversity of thought.
00:27:47.440 That's where it begins and ends. And so for that to be crushed, um, no, you know, no more.
00:27:56.740 And if we don't begin with diversity of thought, then to me, the other stuff actually doesn't even
00:28:01.720 make sense. It doesn't add up. If you don't agree with like, okay, you might think differently,
00:28:07.040 Megan Rapinoe, you know, but, but I respect that. Let's not lead with hate. Right. Um, so I just
00:28:14.440 knew that if I was going to live this life and be in this industry, you know, and have a large platform,
00:28:22.140 um, but not share my experiences and then stand tall when it was the most scary, I'd always regret it.
00:28:34.040 Um, I'm proud of my diversity, uh, how I was made, how my parents made me, how God made me.
00:28:41.420 Um, I'm proud of my diversity with my thought because no one told me how to think. I came up
00:28:48.320 with this on my own through my own life experiences. Um, and I think we should celebrate everybody's
00:28:55.040 life experiences and diversity. Um, so I think I was just broken in so many ways and so heartbroken
00:29:02.800 at, um, being beaten up for being different. Um, when I thought that's what we were celebrating
00:29:09.720 that I just knew that I had to speak up. And even if I got canceled or crushed or lost endorsements
00:29:17.680 or money or jobs, then it would be worth it if I were being true to myself or myself, but also for
00:29:23.480 my kids. And I didn't realize, um, until I started to get canceled, I've been canceled so many times
00:29:28.900 that, um, I got really good at getting canceled. I didn't realize how many people I was affecting
00:29:34.500 by just being me. And when I first got suspended and taken off the ESPN doesn't like to call it a
00:29:40.280 suspension because I got paid. I was like, yeah, there's such thing as a paid suspension that
00:29:44.840 happens all the time in sports. Right. So when I was this, but that's what it was when I got suspended.
00:29:50.040 Um, I got thousands of emails from people across the world. People I'll never, ever meet because it was
00:29:57.160 related to Disney. And so it got bigger. Right. And just saying, stand tall, don't back down. You
00:30:02.880 didn't do anything wrong. You didn't say anything wrong. You were just being you. And if they can be
00:30:05.980 them, why can't you be you? And I thought, Oh my gosh, I'm just talking about football and basketball
00:30:11.040 and excited to do my job. And now somehow affecting others across the pond even. So I realized it's so
00:30:16.880 much bigger than me. My why is my little why that I, that, that I'm realizing because I no longer care
00:30:23.460 about what everybody else thinks that it can maybe help others. Um, and so that's why this
00:30:30.020 has been worth it. Um, as scary as it's been. And, um, there've been times when my, my parents
00:30:37.780 had to literally fly up here to my house in Connecticut and pull me off of the ground when
00:30:43.060 I was like, I can't do this. And I'm the sole breadwinner. I'm divorced. I'm the sole breadwinner
00:30:48.960 for all three kids and an ex-husband. You know what I mean? Like I have so much responsibility
00:30:54.180 on my shoulders and so much, so many reasons to be fearful, which is why I understand the
00:30:59.860 fear, but I'm just, um, it was breaking me to be quiet and to not be able to be myself
00:31:06.000 because I was told I wasn't enough by the same people who preach diversity and tolerance and
00:31:11.540 equity. Um, so I don't, I have, as you can see it, I need to come up with a better answer
00:31:16.240 because I have several wise, wise, but I just know that, um, the diversity of thought is
00:31:22.900 everything. And I will call anyone out on it till the day I die. Um, if we don't practice
00:31:29.940 what we preach and I'm, I am finally practicing what I preach to my kids and I hope it can help
00:31:35.820 others along the way. Well, it certainly is. It certainly has, and it certainly will continue
00:31:41.600 to, and you got all those messages from across the pond, uh, because courage that that's, I would
00:31:48.140 say the virtue that's lacking the most and really the most admirable virtue is when someone is
00:31:53.240 courageous, you know, they, they see fear. It's not that they're fearless. They see fear. They see
00:31:57.940 the risks, they see the threats, and they're still willing to do what's right and what's fair and
00:32:02.700 what's moral and what is just. And that is what you have done. And I've said it time and time again
00:32:07.340 as well, which you touched on, I think the scariest thing about our society, other than the fact that
00:32:13.560 we live in a godless society, uh, is just the inability to think for ourselves and really then
00:32:18.620 the unwillingness to admit when we're wrong and possess all of that and more. And so I think last
00:32:25.120 question here, I want to ask you something that probably every single person is wondering, uh, and
00:32:30.740 that's, you know, what's next for you. Yeah. Um, I have something amazing that I have, it's already
00:32:40.840 signed, sealed and delivered. It's just not announced and I'm dying. I'm dying to announce it.
00:32:46.480 Um, what it is, it's about having conversations. Um, and that's what we've been able to have today.
00:32:54.760 And I think so many people are starting to have more of, and to be honest with it, um, it's, it's
00:33:00.340 really important to me to, to do it in person when possible. So I'm going to be traveling a lot more to
00:33:04.880 make this happen. Um, and I think people are going to be surprised at with whom I'll be working
00:33:12.800 because, um, it's a person that we could not be more different. And that is why it's so exciting to
00:33:22.080 me because this person sees me for me as a human being, a diverse human being who has had a lot of
00:33:30.940 different life experiences and is not afraid to share them and talk about them. And even though
00:33:35.380 we think completely differently on so many issues, he's bringing me on and he's like, let's go.
00:33:41.540 And to me, it's such a win because that's my whole thing, diversity of thought and having
00:33:47.880 conversations. And if we, if we just listen to each other, um, I think for the most part,
00:33:53.500 we're going to, even if we think differently, we're going to like each other and support each
00:33:57.260 other. So, um, I hope it's going to be announced soon. I have no text him when I get done and be
00:34:02.420 like, what are we doing? Let's go. Well, we will certainly, I will be following along. I can't wait
00:34:08.500 to figure out what it is. And of course, um, like I said, I I'm just your biggest fan,
00:34:13.140 so I will promote the heck out of it because I think truly everyone needs to hear what you have
00:34:19.980 to say and really hear your heart. Uh, you are just the most, like I said earlier, you're just,
00:34:26.160 you're always smiling, which is rare. Uh, and, but that's a choice. And you know what else? One
00:34:31.620 thing I so admire about you, because I'm just now becoming more comfortable speaking about my faith 1.00
00:34:36.420 and I've always been a happy go lucky person, like an silly idiot half the time. Like, um, 0.99
00:34:42.800 but I have felt such joy through the sorrow and the pain and the fear of the last two years in
00:34:48.720 particular. Um, because I, uh, my relationship with God has continued to just grow and grow and grow.
00:34:55.040 And I just know that I actually believe that along with being a mother, I know why I'm on this earth
00:35:03.140 now. And I believe God has put me in this position because he, he has gotten me to the point where I'm
00:35:09.480 fearless. And, um, I know that if I'm still standing now after all of this, and again, a lot of personal
00:35:16.460 stuff too, that I haven't talked about yet. The book is in the, um, is in the works, um, which has
00:35:20.820 been, which has been super emotional and difficult too. Um, but I feel like he's got me here because I'm
00:35:27.020 no longer afraid and to be a voice and to stand along you Riley. Um, and I, I feel like why not
00:35:33.900 once you, once we let go of that fear, it's just endless. The possibilities are, are endless. Um,
00:35:42.080 and so again, if people can take, God, look at how long she took her 50 years. Okay. That's what it
00:35:48.080 took me. Fine. Guess what? The next 50 are going to be awesome because it's like, get out of the way, 0.95
00:35:54.800 everybody. And I'm going to try to pull people along with me and other women along with me in 1.00
00:35:59.880 particular, because we are too good. We are too good to allow this stuff to happen. Um, and I,
00:36:05.960 again, thank you for inspiring me because if you hadn't said what you said about, you know,
00:36:11.060 about what ESPN was doing and the Leah Thomas thing and women's history month, what are we doing?
00:36:16.000 Um, you triggered me, you got me going girl. So I owe you, I owe you because you've helped me
00:36:21.980 continue to fight. And, um, I just, I just think that this is going to be really fun for all of us
00:36:27.880 to watch because we know, we know that we're right. We know that we're standing for the right thing.
00:36:32.680 And there's so much power in that. Absolutely. Oh my gosh. Well, you're amazing. Uh, I can't wait to,
00:36:39.600 to meet you in real life soon. Uh, will you work out with me? Will you kick my butt?
00:36:44.780 Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. We were, um, we were both late to the podcast today because we were both 1.00
00:36:52.300 working out, which I think is a sign of a strong woman, uh, which I believe of course we both
00:36:58.720 certainly are. So I could not be more grateful for you. Uh, again, like I said, for your stance,
00:37:05.100 uh, for your boldness, for your courage, uh, for your willingness to say what everyone else is
00:37:10.300 thinking, even when it's not the, the most, um, favorable position. Yeah. So I I'm just very
00:37:17.000 grateful for you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And we're going to fight this together.
00:37:21.620 How can you not just love her? Oh my gosh. She is, um, like I said many times, someone I truly,
00:37:28.840 truly admire. And I know so many others do as well. Um, I will be excited to hear what's going on with
00:37:34.580 her book and her future plans. Uh, and we will certainly keep you guys updated. Uh, so thank you
00:37:39.720 for tuning in today. Make sure you like subscribe, uh, outkick.com anywhere where you get your podcasts
00:37:45.380 and we will see you after the holidays.