Gaines for Girls with Riley Gaines - Speaking the Truth with Sage Steele

00:00:00.540 Okay, only 10 more presents to wrap. You're almost at the finish line, but first...

00:00:10.980 There, the last one. Enjoy a Coca-Cola for a pause that refreshes.

00:00:18.040 Welcome back to the Gains for Girls podcast. Today's guest is the person that has been the

00:00:32.760 biggest role model for me. She is certainly the person that I look up to most in this entire space.

00:00:39.240 She is one of the country's most popular and well-respected broadcasters. Most recently,

00:00:44.660 she was at ESPN for about 16 years hosting the network's flagship show, SportsCenter. She is

00:00:51.600 humble. She is kind. She is incredible. She is courageous. She is bold. She's beautiful.

00:00:58.680 And really, she's the embodiment of a strong woman. So check out the episode here with Sage Steele.

00:01:04.900 Well, Sage, can I just tell you that you are probably my biggest role model and the person

00:01:10.360 that I look up to most in this whole space. You are always smiling. I've never heard a hateful

00:01:17.020 or mean thing come out of your mouth. You speak the truth. You're beautiful. And you embody a strong

00:01:23.880 woman. So thank you for joining today and thank you for your boldness. I couldn't be more grateful

00:01:30.480 for you, really. No. Oh my gosh. I'm hugging you through our screen here. Thank you. And that means

00:01:38.040 a lot to me coming from you, a strong woman who is an example for me as well, by the way.

00:01:44.260 Doesn't matter our age difference, you know, and you for so many millions of women out there and men,

00:01:51.140 my daughters, my son. It's just, it's amazing. So despite all this chaos, which I hate that you've

00:01:56.060 had to go through, there's so many silver linings, I think. And, and this meeting to me is such a

00:02:02.720 blessing. Absolutely. And, and speaking of chaos, you know, it just as well. And I think a lot of

00:02:09.700 people kind of know the gist of your story. Of course you were with ESPN and then suddenly you

00:02:15.320 weren't. And so I just wanted you to start by, you know, briefly taking us through what you

00:02:21.240 personally experienced. Oh, that's a, yeah. Okay. The word brief. Yeah. Well, um, it just,

00:02:31.880 it was years in the, you say, okay, I was at ESPN and then I, I wasn't true, but it really was years

00:02:36.960 in the making. I will tell you this and I'll just go backwards. Um, I know I'm exactly where I'm

00:02:42.500 supposed to be at this moment, even though this moment is still a little bit, um, you know, I'm still

00:02:47.800 a little bit uncomfortable because I was just saying this to my parents the other day. Um,

00:02:51.720 like for my entire career, which is 28 years older than you are, Riley. Oh God, I'm aging myself. Um,

00:02:59.240 I've been, I've lived in structure. I'm the daughter of a retired army Colonel, a West Point graduate.

00:03:05.500 Here comes the dog. Come on in lately. You want to say hi to Riley? Okay. Um, and like all I've ever

00:03:11.080 done is, is lived and thrived in structure. And when you're doing live television every day,

00:03:15.800 there's so much prep that goes into it and you cannot be late. So now I'm learning to live

00:03:20.060 outside of structure and I have to create it on my own. So it's been a little bit of a challenge.

00:03:23.540 Um, but I gotta tell you, um, I've lived in fear for many, many years, like fear, fear of disappointing

00:03:32.780 others, fear of disappointing myself, fear of not being liked fear of everything. I just, I look back

00:03:40.660 and I'm like, God, I was so afraid with a good heart. Right. I was well-intended. Um, and I think

00:03:45.860 now that I, I, I hit that point where I knew that I had, if I didn't stand up for myself,

00:03:51.260 um, it was now or never. And then I would always regret it. You know what I mean? I knew I would

00:03:56.480 regret it. And I knew that I would have to live with it forever. And, um, I'd be embarrassed

00:04:03.220 that at a moment that I had an opportunity and a big platform that I chose to shrink. Like I had my

00:04:09.200 whole life and I just said enough. Um, so listen to the decision to stand up for myself based on how

00:04:16.580 I was treated, which was, um, completely differently from those who fit a different narrative, um,

00:04:23.100 was heartbreaking and devastating and all of the things. Right. Um, but I, I, I just, I said this

00:04:30.940 to Megan Kelly on Megan show. Like I didn't know what my line was until it was crossed. And then I was

00:04:35.460 like, Oh, hell no. Now I'm done. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Now you made me angry. But anyway, that was

00:04:41.140 a convoluted answer. It was 16, 17 years at my dream, dream, dream job. And the last five, six,

00:04:47.120 seven, they just kept pounding me because I was different and I wasn't following their narrative.

00:04:50.180 And I just would stay silent and stay silent. And then I'm like, enough, you can't allow all my

00:04:54.660 coworkers to go on ESPN platforms and on NBA shows and NFL and do all these things and talk about

00:05:00.680 Roe versus Wade or, or, or ignore, for instance, ignoring the Leah Thomas, Riley Gaines story. I

00:05:06.680 asked for months to talk about that and they quieted me. So fine. And so I went on social media

00:05:12.300 and I was told to be quiet on social media. And I was like, Nope, because I support women and you

00:05:16.440 can't say we support women and then not support women. Um, and I just got tired and sad and said

00:05:21.240 enough. So I, I hope that by standing up and then yeah, filing a lawsuit who files a lawsuit against

00:05:27.020 their company when they're still working there, not exactly what the plan was. And I still am

00:05:31.900 overwhelmed at that. Um, but to, to settle it to me as a, it is a win because it was like,

00:05:38.640 no, I'm not going to be quiet anymore. It's too late for me. I knew my career there was over,

00:05:45.700 but for the others, friends who are still there, people who don't even like me there,

00:05:49.520 people at other companies, I'm like, it's now or never. And I, um, I know that if we are silent,

00:05:56.640 we are complicit. Absolutely. That's what I believe. It just, I hope it doesn't take

00:06:01.540 everybody else 50 years to get to where I got. No. And you're exactly right. Uh, silence is

00:06:07.600 complicity. That's what I saw. Um, at least, you know, being in the position that I was in

00:06:12.500 kind of naively waiting for someone else to do the right thing. Uh, I realized we would be waiting

00:06:18.220 forever if we, if we waited for that. Uh, but you're right. I think you're, you're setting the

00:06:23.640 precedent, uh, for everyone else that comes behind you. Um, which is just incredibly admirable.

00:06:31.080 Um, and so you've kind of seen this cancel culture unfold now for a while and among different

00:06:39.000 topics, right? You, uh, I would imagine, you know, all the COVID stuff, of course, the, the men and

00:06:44.160 women's sports stuff, the BLM stuff, not standing for the national anthem, all kinds of these cultural

00:06:48.800 issues that, that ESPN has kind of taken on, uh, from, from one side of, of the aisle. Right.

00:06:55.180 Uh, so you've seen this for a while and now that you're kind of, I guess a little bit removed from

00:07:01.460 that space, do you see it increasing? Is it becoming more and more prominent?

00:07:09.240 Hmm. You know, it's a good question and it's one that I can't answer because I have not turned on

00:07:17.100 the TV. Good for you for months. Yeah. At first it was because I was like, Oh, this is going to be

00:07:24.360 too hard because I will say this. I loved my show. I loved sports center. I did the noon to two, uh,

00:07:30.120 Eastern time for the last three years. I love my co-host, Matt Berry. I love my teammates. I love

00:07:34.360 my producers. I love them. And I was so heartbroken to have to say goodbye to them. So I was like, I can't

00:07:39.660 do this. And then I was like, this is kind of nice. And here's the problem. When you are around

00:07:46.260 something for so long, you know, you see what everybody else sees when you're watching on TV,

00:07:51.000 but when you know how everything happens in the background, how it's all made, you know?

00:07:57.320 Yeah. Ooh. I was like, I can't watch this because I know that this isn't genuine, you know? Um, so

00:08:03.000 it's just been easier for me to stay in touch with people elsewhere and not watching. Um, let's certainly

00:08:07.520 on, on X and stuff, I see things. Um, I thought it was very interesting. Um, recently Disney,

00:08:15.080 which obviously owns ESPN and ABC acknowledged in that sec filing that basically they'd gone too

00:08:21.920 woke and that it has affected their bottom line. And I'm like, you think, I mean, and I'm just like

00:08:29.260 one small part of that. I mean, I, I, um, you know, I guess I'm shrapnel from that decision where

00:08:36.460 let's crush her because she's on the more conservative side and speaks for herself in issues of, 1.00

00:08:42.760 you know, with the vaccine mandate, not the vaccine, the mandate, uh, and choosing to, um,

00:08:48.380 celebrate my entire heritage, white and black. I'm, I'm 50% each, not just choosing one based on

00:08:53.740 what the narrative says, uh, how I, how I, uh, believe just with some of the comments I've made

00:08:58.460 about, uh, women professionally in sports and, um, all those things that got me canceled basically.

00:09:04.160 And it's like, wait, I wonder, cause I said those things two years ago, originally, I wonder if

00:09:09.840 now, if I said it now, would I, would I be canceled? Maybe, maybe not the end of the day,

00:09:15.060 ESPN for years, did a wonderful job under our new president, our, uh, their new president,

00:09:20.440 Jimmy Pitaro has been there for like five years. And at first when he was there, it was incredible

00:09:24.540 because he was like, we are not doing politics. I go back to Michael Jordan, Riley and Michael

00:09:29.360 Jordan in the eighties said, Republicans buy sneakers too. And hello. It's so basic. Like

00:09:34.840 it's so basic. And so I think, don't we want everybody watching ESPN and going to, to theaters,

00:09:40.240 seeing all of our Disney movies, or are we just catering to one side now and choosing a side?

00:09:44.260 That's what they've done. It's been costly to the tune of millions, billions of dollars, maybe.

00:09:49.580 Um, so I, I, I, the fact that they acknowledged it is great. And I was pleasantly surprised to see

00:09:55.880 them acknowledge it. That's not something that big corporations usually do. Um, but I,

00:09:59.340 I think that a lot of damage has been done. Um, and I don't know if there's any, if there's any

00:10:03.920 coming back or turning back for a lot of parents out there who like me, when my kids were little,

00:10:08.640 it was all about Disney. I know so many people now who are like, no, I'm so sad, but I'm done.

00:10:14.460 You can't even go to the park right now. We, the Disney parks, you walk in and remember it was

00:10:18.960 Mickey mouse. Hi boys and girls. They don't say boys and girls anymore. You know, like, so I don't

00:10:23.660 know how much you can get back. Um, but I, I, I, I do think that, um, maybe they've tried to,

00:10:30.360 to pull back, scale back on things. I think it's too late in many ways for ESPN as well.

00:10:36.260 Yeah, I agree. And it's not just ESPN and Disney, you know, you look at all these companies,

00:10:40.940 uh, of course, but like even Harvard now, uh, I imagine people won't be sending their kids to

00:10:47.460 Harvard and it's because it's too late. They had the chance. A lot of these, well, what used to be

00:10:51.900 called prestigious universities, uh, the stances they've taken that really how they've doubled down

00:10:58.500 on the stances they've taken. Uh, I imagine that would hurt them. I think any American, uh, would be

00:11:05.920 willing and ready to act on that by, by not giving them their money. And you have to think about

00:11:11.200 Disney, for example, uh, they've seen their, their stock plummet answer to shareholders. I can't

00:11:17.900 imagine shareholders in this are happy. Exactly. I, and I, well, I, I think that that's why they've

00:11:24.400 had to acknowledge some things, right? I'd love to be a fly on the wall in those boardrooms just to

00:11:29.220 hear those, those conversations. And over the last couple of years too. Um, and that, and that's the

00:11:33.640 thing I've, I've always just, I used to beg and producers and my bosses, I mean, we'd have some

00:11:38.460 really good conversations when they were still talking to me the last two years. No one did

00:11:41.440 certainly when I, my loss, it was active. And I was like, they're like, stay away from her.

00:11:45.380 No one talked to her. Um, and you know, I would say, God, what are we doing? Why are we choosing

00:11:51.260 any side like to me and you know, you as a, as a former top level D one athlete, right? Like,

00:11:59.800 um, sports is what brings us together. Like on a football Sunday for three hours,

00:12:06.500 if you're a fan of the giants or the Raiders or whoever it is, your race, your gender, your

00:12:12.040 politics, your socioeconomic status, nothing matters on a Sunday or for anything. You're just

00:12:17.020 cheering for your team. And sometimes I've turned to people and you hug a stranger, right? Because

00:12:21.560 your team just scored. That's the beauty of sport. And so it was devastating for me as a fan. Number

00:12:27.660 one, as a journalist, number two, and as a loyal employee of the company that I loved to see us

00:12:32.380 choosing, choosing to divide. And I think that that is what I hope ESPN is learning now. Um,

00:12:39.500 especially over the last couple of years, I hope Disney is, I hope Bud Light, I hope all of the

00:12:43.580 companies are, but the colleges and universities, um, maybe that's the silver lining of all of the

00:12:48.560 ugliness, right? Is that now this is being exposed as a mother of three, I already have two in college 1.00

00:12:53.040 at High Point university, which stands for freedom. It's an incredible place in North Carolina.

00:12:57.220 Um, their motto is God, family, country. And, and it's not like it's a religious institution. It

00:13:02.680 just, it's like, Hey, this is what we're made of. Um, but they don't make you, they don't force you to

00:13:06.980 do things. They don't allow hate speech. I have one more daughter that's getting ready to go to college. 0.94

00:13:11.400 She's choosing. Let me tell you, I don't care if she were the valedictorian and had a 4.5 GPA and 1.00

00:13:17.540 got into all of those elite institutions. Absolutely not. That is not where you're going. And you know

00:13:22.960 what? She wouldn't even need to hear it from me. My 17 year old daughter knows she doesn't want to 1.00

00:13:27.280 be around people that not just speak that way, but more importantly, in many ways, the people who

00:13:31.860 tolerate it, it is do or die time now for us as Americans, as employees, as employers, as parents

00:13:41.020 to take these stances and say, absolutely not. The only way sadly to hit them is in the wallet.

00:13:47.360 And that's what seems to be happening with Disney. When you look at Penn and their donors who are

00:13:52.160 saying, no, I'm going to keep my a hundred million dollars. How do you like that? It's the only way.

00:13:57.480 Uh, I think it's do or die time for Christians as well, because I think we've reached this point 1.00

00:14:02.040 where even Christians are kind of turning the other cheek. Uh, but like you said, eyes are being opened.

00:14:07.100 Uh, I think, uh, hearts are being softened, which I pray for every single day. Um, but, but despite all

00:14:14.520 that now, of course, at least from what I've seen, since I've entered into this space, uh, you've

00:14:19.840 always been a champion, a champion for women, but now, uh, a very public champion for women, especially

00:14:25.500 of course, women in sports. But I just have to ask, uh, you know, I know there was probably a lot 0.62

00:14:31.120 of conversations behind closed doors, but I just want to know, you know, have you felt support from

00:14:37.620 your colleagues, especially women? Uh, because I remember during women's history month back in March of this

00:14:43.980 year, there was a special, an ESPN special that came out showcasing, you know, women's history

00:14:49.360 month. Um, and the special was surrounding Leah Thomas, uh, and how brave he is and how, how

00:14:56.080 inspiring he is and how much adversity he had to overcome and persecution to, to, uh, achieve the

00:15:03.120 seemingly impossible by winning a national title. Um, and I remember watching this and hearing the

00:15:09.400 voiceover, of course, noticing it was a woman who did the voiceover. And I just remember thinking to

00:15:14.580 myself, you know, I could not imagine being a woman working there, being asked to report on this

00:15:20.780 issue with a smile on my face. Uh, and so I just kind of wanted to ask about the support you felt

00:15:27.140 from women, uh, since of course, taking the stands that you have. None, none, which is not shocking. 0.99

00:15:34.780 However, um, I'll start with the positive, which is Samantha Ponder. And I know that you got to meet

00:15:40.180 Sam and she's been a dear friend of mine for about 15 years. Um, uh, and her, her maiden name is

00:15:46.160 Steele. So Sam Steele, Sage Steele, we're, we're like, we're twins. We're related. Um, and she and I

00:15:52.840 talked after I had begun to speak up, which was right, right after your tweet, I think. Um, and, and she,

00:16:00.420 we talked and she's like, Sage, I want to speak up so badly too. What do I do? And first of all,

00:16:06.020 Sam is one of the smartest, um, most wise women I've ever been around in my life. And, um, she knew

00:16:12.400 what she needed to do and, and she did it in her time. And I think over the summer decided to speak

00:16:17.180 up as well, but it's literally just been, um, Sam and me and that's it. I'll say that, you know,

00:16:23.840 obviously I was still at ESPN in March and I remember coming to work a day or two after

00:16:29.400 all of those aired. Um, and, and the Leah Thomas one aired in particular. And I was on the set

00:16:35.240 sitting next to the woman who voiced it over. And I just remember wanting to ask her like,

00:16:39.860 really? You have daughters. What do you really believe this? Um, I didn't because it's not worth

00:16:46.780 it at some point, right? People are gonna do what they're going to do. I do know that, um, you know,

00:16:51.540 we were all, all the women on sports and we're asked to voice over, uh, several of those little

00:16:56.880 clips. And I did two or three of the female athletes and they were great. I was not asked

00:17:01.620 to do the Leah Thomas one, probably strategically. They know what I would have said. Um, and the thing

00:17:07.560 is, is I'd been asking for months to talk about this story on our show. We had two hours live every

00:17:13.040 day and we never, ever, ever did it. And that was disappointing because we do a lot of things

00:17:17.060 incredibly well, especially on the show I was on. We were, we were awesome. Um, but I,

00:17:21.540 I, I, when I saw it air, I was just heartbroken, especially as someone, I mean, for the last

00:17:27.120 for, from 2010 through 2021, I was, um, kind of the face of ESPNW, our, our women's summit.

00:17:33.840 And it was women in sport and it was all about uplifting women and making sure that we are

00:17:38.040 seen and heard and represented in our highlights on sports center, um, salaries and all the stuff

00:17:43.420 that we've talked about with the women's soccer team, like so many things. And, and as kind

00:17:47.920 of the face of it, I, I was all about women, women, women as one with daughters, all of

00:17:54.140 the above. And I thought, what, what are we doing? Then I had more and more conversations,

00:17:59.360 um, with some people who were in the boardrooms meeting, talking about this before they all,

00:18:06.960 all those montages, all of them aired. And a couple of people were like, and these are men

00:18:11.580 in the room who are saying, what are we doing? There are so many other women to choose from. 1.00

00:18:17.600 And we're choosing a man. We're choosing Leah Thomas. Why, why go there? Why do this? And so

00:18:23.760 there were people in those meetings that I know who spoke up, who were ignored. So it was strategic.

00:18:31.060 Um, they saved it, him. I'm with you. I say him, not her, uh, for the last one, I think too.

00:18:37.300 Right. I think that was the last one to air. Um, yeah, yeah, it was beautiful. Um, that disgusted

00:18:45.260 me. I'll also say this. I mean, I was, um, I was asked to stop tweeting about it. I was asked to stop,

00:18:53.680 um, doing anything, saying anything about it on social media because I was, um, offending others

00:18:58.960 at the company. I made sure I sent off another tweet that night after I received that email.

00:19:04.320 Um, because like, no, and let's stop living in this lie. And once again, oh, you're going to,

00:19:10.860 you're going to silence me and Sam. She was told the same thing, you know, for this issue,

00:19:16.200 but then we're going to let everybody else talk about all these other things that are not even

00:19:20.260 related to sports on our sports programming. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. If we're going to

00:19:24.660 preach on ESPN W and all of these things, and I'm going to stand up for all these women,

00:19:28.560 many of whom are afraid to do what Riley Gaines is doing, to do what, what I'm doing at a much

00:19:34.020 lesser level than Riley than you. Right. But just no. And so that, that I actually said this to

00:19:41.680 myself as I was sending a tweet, the first tweet about, you know, standing up and supporting you.

00:19:47.460 I said, I already had the lawsuit going, you know, I mean, whatever. I didn't know how it was going to

00:19:52.320 end, but I literally said, this is a hill I will die on a hundred percent because it is,

00:19:58.580 it is facts. This is not even my opinion about a vaccine mandate or whatever. Like these are facts.

00:20:05.720 This is science. This is biology. This is all of the things come at me. Tell me I'm wrong. Tell me

00:20:10.920 to stop supporting women. Go ahead. Tell me. Yeah, exactly. Um, and, and that was exactly my point 1.00

00:20:17.880 during the hearing last week. Um, when, you know, representative Lee sits there and calls me names,

00:20:25.200 calls me a transphobic bigot, but she doesn't acknowledge what she is, which is someone who has 0.75

00:20:31.800 a very blatant bias and really, I would say contempt for women, uh, which we call a misogynist. So it is

00:20:40.040 interesting how it's kind of like rules for the, but not, or rules for the, but not for me, you know,

00:20:45.520 but then, but then to get it, try to get stricken from the record, the panic, but yeah, but that's

00:20:50.640 something you faced, uh, for a really long time. And so that's why I just couldn't have been more

00:20:56.240 excited. Um, when I saw your tweet, so just know you were making a difference in my life

00:21:01.980 and then so many others, uh, you, you inspired, um, thank you. Thank you. Can I just real quick

00:21:08.560 say that I, I do believe that there are a lot of other women at ESPN who agree with me,

00:21:14.080 agreed with me when I was there. Um, and I think many of them, um, just had the fear,

00:21:20.620 the fear that I understand and that I lived with for years, you know, um, and women who have to 1.00

00:21:25.860 support their families. And I understand, I understand that, but here's the thing. And I

00:21:30.000 said this publicly on social media as well. Um, I think that we are so underestimating our power.

00:21:36.720 And if we would just come together on this, we would be unstoppable. So we're seeing it in other

00:21:44.840 ways where, you know, at powerlifting events or cycling events or other sports where, where women 0.99

00:21:49.500 are saying, no, I'm not going to, we're not going to play. And then what happens? The whole event gets

00:21:54.080 shut down. Now it's, it is pathetic that we even have to do that. Right. Um, but unfortunately it 0.79

00:22:00.340 feels like it's the only way if they do it. Um, and so as journalists, can you imagine if all the

00:22:08.820 women came together and said enough with this, they, it would be, we would be such a powerful force

00:22:15.620 and, and we have chosen to be silent and weak about this. And let me throw this in. It's funny

00:22:21.960 because what comes at you, um, when you do stand up, like I thought I was doing the right thing. I know

00:22:27.940 I am, but when I get thrown under the bus by Megan Rapinoe, which she's comical in many ways, 0.98

00:22:34.580 so sad that such a great player, a great career has turned into this is she, her mouth and her

00:22:40.900 actions have taken away from her greatness on the field. And that's what breaks my heart as a fan of

00:22:45.680 hers and of the sport. Um, but when she put me in a sentence with a time magazine article, it was

00:22:51.580 me and Martina Navratilova and Dave Chappelle who are standing up for, for women, um, women's sports

00:23:00.260 and saying, sorry, no biological men in our sports, that she says that we are inciting violence against

00:23:05.280 trans people. Like people like Megan Rapinoe have lost their minds and they can need, we need to

00:23:12.180 continue to call them on it because it's not just our opinions that are backing us up. It is facts.

00:23:17.280 Hashtag science. Absolutely. Yeah. That's, that's the tactics they choose to use is really

00:23:23.660 fear-mongering, you know, telling you basically equating you to a murderer. If you speak out

00:23:28.160 saying you will have blood on your hands, if you advocate for fair sport and privacy in areas of

00:23:33.920 undressing, uh, which you're, you're exactly right. I was a big fan of Megan Rapinoe. Granted, no, we don't

00:23:39.200 necessarily agree on much, but like you said, that didn't matter because she is an amazing player.

00:23:45.000 Uh, she had an amazing career. Uh, she did a lot for women's sports in terms of fighting for, 1.00

00:23:50.520 for what she fought for equal access, equal resources, uh, equal pay different things. Uh, 1.00

00:23:55.680 she, I, I really would have considered her a feminist, a hardcore feminist, but now, 0.99

00:24:00.100 oh my gosh, forget that. She is not a feminist. She had us all deceived. Uh, she's a, a virtue 1.00

00:24:05.800 signaling. Uh, I mean, and I would just, she's a virtue signaler. That's what she's doing. Um, 0.99

00:24:11.380 by fighting for inclusion, which is really, as we know, exclusion. Um, yes. And conveniently as her

00:24:18.340 career ends. Yeah. Right. Exactly. She knows she wouldn't have had the opportunities and success 1.00

00:24:22.860 that she had, had men been allowed to take her spots. Everyone has seen, uh, the U S women's 1.00

00:24:28.660 national soccer team lose to, uh, I believe the 15 and under high school boys team or whatever it was

00:24:35.680 and a blowout. Everyone's about that. And we know it's not sexist to say that we would expect that to

00:24:41.820 happen. No, that's, that's trusting again, like you said, science and logic and reasoning, uh, fact

00:24:48.360 lived experience. Um, and I, I loved, I, well, I saw of course the article that came, Nancy armor,

00:24:55.660 who came after, um, Sam. Yeah. And she just responded back with like, biology is not bigotry. And I love

00:25:03.560 that. And that's so true. Um, but I, I've heard you several times and in several different posts

00:25:08.520 and different, different things you've done, talk about your why, uh, you know, why you stand tall,

00:25:14.700 why you push back, why you advocate really for transparency and consistency, I would say.

00:25:19.640 Uh, but I want to give you the opportunity to share your why, because I think it's important.

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00:25:54.260 Hmm. Um, I, I just think again, I lived in fear. It makes me emotional.

00:26:01.820 I lived in fear for so long and it was very costly and that was professionally and personally,

00:26:10.800 you know? So, um, I got tired and I felt like a hypocrite as a mother of three and trying to raise

00:26:22.060 strong humans and two strong daughters as well. Um, and my son who has witnessed my strength in many ways,

00:26:31.800 um, going into work and fighting in a man's world. And this, this crazy little dream I had to be a

00:26:37.000 sportscaster when I was a shy, shy young girl and being told no, and then you fight, you fight.

00:26:43.000 And then, and then when it comes crunch time and it gets a little hard, you go quiet, you stop. 0.89

00:26:50.840 I just felt like a hypocrite. And if I didn't speak up, then what am I, 0.83

00:26:55.860 why would my kids ever do the same? You know? Um, I think my otherwise, because, um, you know,

00:27:04.780 it has to do with just my upbringing, uh, as a, uh, daughter of a, of a white mother and a black

00:27:11.440 father, very proud of my background and being biracial. Um, I feel like I had the best of both

00:27:17.360 worlds as a kid, Riley, and I still do, you know, especially in such a divisive world. Um, I,

00:27:22.620 I, I didn't see color. I didn't as one of those, I just saw love and I, or hate whatever, but I knew

00:27:29.320 who my people were and it didn't matter if they were green or blue or Democrats or Republicans

00:27:32.740 or poor or rich. Like there were nobody rich in my family, by the way, like it was just love,

00:27:36.660 you know? And so, um, I lived in diversity. I grew up in such a diverse background. And to then,

00:27:44.360 um, to me, the most important part of diversity is diversity of thought.

00:27:47.440 That's where it begins and ends. And so for that to be crushed, um, no, you know, no more.

00:27:56.740 And if we don't begin with diversity of thought, then to me, the other stuff actually doesn't even

00:28:01.720 make sense. It doesn't add up. If you don't agree with like, okay, you might think differently,

00:28:07.040 Megan Rapinoe, you know, but, but I respect that. Let's not lead with hate. Right. Um, so I just

00:28:14.440 knew that if I was going to live this life and be in this industry, you know, and have a large platform,

00:28:22.140 um, but not share my experiences and then stand tall when it was the most scary, I'd always regret it.

00:28:34.040 Um, I'm proud of my diversity, uh, how I was made, how my parents made me, how God made me.

00:28:41.420 Um, I'm proud of my diversity with my thought because no one told me how to think. I came up

00:28:48.320 with this on my own through my own life experiences. Um, and I think we should celebrate everybody's

00:28:55.040 life experiences and diversity. Um, so I think I was just broken in so many ways and so heartbroken

00:29:02.800 at, um, being beaten up for being different. Um, when I thought that's what we were celebrating

00:29:09.720 that I just knew that I had to speak up. And even if I got canceled or crushed or lost endorsements

00:29:17.680 or money or jobs, then it would be worth it if I were being true to myself or myself, but also for

00:29:23.480 my kids. And I didn't realize, um, until I started to get canceled, I've been canceled so many times

00:29:28.900 that, um, I got really good at getting canceled. I didn't realize how many people I was affecting

00:29:34.500 by just being me. And when I first got suspended and taken off the ESPN doesn't like to call it a

00:29:40.280 suspension because I got paid. I was like, yeah, there's such thing as a paid suspension that

00:29:44.840 happens all the time in sports. Right. So when I was this, but that's what it was when I got suspended.

00:29:50.040 Um, I got thousands of emails from people across the world. People I'll never, ever meet because it was

00:29:57.160 related to Disney. And so it got bigger. Right. And just saying, stand tall, don't back down. You

00:30:02.880 didn't do anything wrong. You didn't say anything wrong. You were just being you. And if they can be

00:30:05.980 them, why can't you be you? And I thought, Oh my gosh, I'm just talking about football and basketball

00:30:11.040 and excited to do my job. And now somehow affecting others across the pond even. So I realized it's so

00:30:16.880 much bigger than me. My why is my little why that I, that, that I'm realizing because I no longer care

00:30:23.460 about what everybody else thinks that it can maybe help others. Um, and so that's why this

00:30:30.020 has been worth it. Um, as scary as it's been. And, um, there've been times when my, my parents

00:30:37.780 had to literally fly up here to my house in Connecticut and pull me off of the ground when

00:30:43.060 I was like, I can't do this. And I'm the sole breadwinner. I'm divorced. I'm the sole breadwinner

00:30:48.960 for all three kids and an ex-husband. You know what I mean? Like I have so much responsibility

00:30:54.180 on my shoulders and so much, so many reasons to be fearful, which is why I understand the

00:30:59.860 fear, but I'm just, um, it was breaking me to be quiet and to not be able to be myself

00:31:06.000 because I was told I wasn't enough by the same people who preach diversity and tolerance and

00:31:11.540 equity. Um, so I don't, I have, as you can see it, I need to come up with a better answer

00:31:16.240 because I have several wise, wise, but I just know that, um, the diversity of thought is

00:31:22.900 everything. And I will call anyone out on it till the day I die. Um, if we don't practice

00:31:29.940 what we preach and I'm, I am finally practicing what I preach to my kids and I hope it can help

00:31:35.820 others along the way. Well, it certainly is. It certainly has, and it certainly will continue

00:31:41.600 to, and you got all those messages from across the pond, uh, because courage that that's, I would

00:31:48.140 say the virtue that's lacking the most and really the most admirable virtue is when someone is

00:31:53.240 courageous, you know, they, they see fear. It's not that they're fearless. They see fear. They see

00:31:57.940 the risks, they see the threats, and they're still willing to do what's right and what's fair and

00:32:02.700 what's moral and what is just. And that is what you have done. And I've said it time and time again

00:32:07.340 as well, which you touched on, I think the scariest thing about our society, other than the fact that

00:32:13.560 we live in a godless society, uh, is just the inability to think for ourselves and really then

00:32:18.620 the unwillingness to admit when we're wrong and possess all of that and more. And so I think last

00:32:25.120 question here, I want to ask you something that probably every single person is wondering, uh, and

00:32:30.740 that's, you know, what's next for you. Yeah. Um, I have something amazing that I have, it's already

00:32:40.840 signed, sealed and delivered. It's just not announced and I'm dying. I'm dying to announce it.

00:32:46.480 Um, what it is, it's about having conversations. Um, and that's what we've been able to have today.

00:32:54.760 And I think so many people are starting to have more of, and to be honest with it, um, it's, it's

00:33:00.340 really important to me to, to do it in person when possible. So I'm going to be traveling a lot more to

00:33:04.880 make this happen. Um, and I think people are going to be surprised at with whom I'll be working

00:33:12.800 because, um, it's a person that we could not be more different. And that is why it's so exciting to

00:33:22.080 me because this person sees me for me as a human being, a diverse human being who has had a lot of

00:33:30.940 different life experiences and is not afraid to share them and talk about them. And even though

00:33:35.380 we think completely differently on so many issues, he's bringing me on and he's like, let's go.

00:33:41.540 And to me, it's such a win because that's my whole thing, diversity of thought and having

00:33:47.880 conversations. And if we, if we just listen to each other, um, I think for the most part,

00:33:53.500 we're going to, even if we think differently, we're going to like each other and support each

00:33:57.260 other. So, um, I hope it's going to be announced soon. I have no text him when I get done and be

00:34:02.420 like, what are we doing? Let's go. Well, we will certainly, I will be following along. I can't wait

00:34:08.500 to figure out what it is. And of course, um, like I said, I I'm just your biggest fan,

00:34:13.140 so I will promote the heck out of it because I think truly everyone needs to hear what you have

00:34:19.980 to say and really hear your heart. Uh, you are just the most, like I said earlier, you're just,

00:34:26.160 you're always smiling, which is rare. Uh, and, but that's a choice. And you know what else? One

00:34:31.620 thing I so admire about you, because I'm just now becoming more comfortable speaking about my faith 1.00

00:34:36.420 and I've always been a happy go lucky person, like an silly idiot half the time. Like, um, 0.99

00:34:42.800 but I have felt such joy through the sorrow and the pain and the fear of the last two years in

00:34:48.720 particular. Um, because I, uh, my relationship with God has continued to just grow and grow and grow.

00:34:55.040 And I just know that I actually believe that along with being a mother, I know why I'm on this earth

00:35:03.140 now. And I believe God has put me in this position because he, he has gotten me to the point where I'm

00:35:09.480 fearless. And, um, I know that if I'm still standing now after all of this, and again, a lot of personal

00:35:16.460 stuff too, that I haven't talked about yet. The book is in the, um, is in the works, um, which has

00:35:20.820 been, which has been super emotional and difficult too. Um, but I feel like he's got me here because I'm

00:35:27.020 no longer afraid and to be a voice and to stand along you Riley. Um, and I, I feel like why not

00:35:33.900 once you, once we let go of that fear, it's just endless. The possibilities are, are endless. Um,

00:35:42.080 and so again, if people can take, God, look at how long she took her 50 years. Okay. That's what it

00:35:48.080 took me. Fine. Guess what? The next 50 are going to be awesome because it's like, get out of the way, 0.95

00:35:54.800 everybody. And I'm going to try to pull people along with me and other women along with me in 1.00

00:35:59.880 particular, because we are too good. We are too good to allow this stuff to happen. Um, and I,

00:36:05.960 again, thank you for inspiring me because if you hadn't said what you said about, you know,

00:36:11.060 about what ESPN was doing and the Leah Thomas thing and women's history month, what are we doing?

00:36:16.000 Um, you triggered me, you got me going girl. So I owe you, I owe you because you've helped me

00:36:21.980 continue to fight. And, um, I just, I just think that this is going to be really fun for all of us

00:36:27.880 to watch because we know, we know that we're right. We know that we're standing for the right thing.

00:36:32.680 And there's so much power in that. Absolutely. Oh my gosh. Well, you're amazing. Uh, I can't wait to,

00:36:39.600 to meet you in real life soon. Uh, will you work out with me? Will you kick my butt?

00:36:44.780 Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. We were, um, we were both late to the podcast today because we were both 1.00

00:36:52.300 working out, which I think is a sign of a strong woman, uh, which I believe of course we both

00:36:58.720 certainly are. So I could not be more grateful for you. Uh, again, like I said, for your stance,

00:37:05.100 uh, for your boldness, for your courage, uh, for your willingness to say what everyone else is

00:37:10.300 thinking, even when it's not the, the most, um, favorable position. Yeah. So I I'm just very

00:37:17.000 grateful for you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And we're going to fight this together.

00:37:21.620 How can you not just love her? Oh my gosh. She is, um, like I said many times, someone I truly,

00:37:28.840 truly admire. And I know so many others do as well. Um, I will be excited to hear what's going on with

00:37:34.580 her book and her future plans. Uh, and we will certainly keep you guys updated. Uh, so thank you

00:37:39.720 for tuning in today. Make sure you like subscribe, uh, outkick.com anywhere where you get your podcasts

00:37:45.380 and we will see you after the holidays.

Gaines for Girls with Riley Gaines - December 27, 2023

Speaking the Truth with Sage Steele

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