Dave and Judy Brown were both coaches for over 25 years at Stand Tall High School in Gainsborough, MA. In a viral video, they announced they were stepping down from their roles as Head Girls Varsity and JV Tennis Coaches.
00:00:00.540Okay, only 10 more presents to wrap. You're almost at the finish line, but first...
00:00:11.000There, the last one. Enjoy a Coca-Cola for a pause that refreshes.
00:00:18.000Welcome back to the Gainsborough Girls podcast. I am so excited about today's guest. These are two incredibly brave coaches. That's the piece that has been missing.
00:00:38.420We've had female athletes on. We have had policy experts on. We've had world-leading scientists on. But we haven't had any coaches, any coaches who are brave enough to stand up to the, what I would call, insanity, and really injustice, I think is a better word, the injustice of allowing men into women's sports.
00:00:59.440We have Dave and Judy Brown, such a wonderful, beautiful couple. They were both coaches, coaching for over 25 years in sports, tennis, I mean, tons of sports.
00:01:11.440But their passion and commitment is truly bar none. And I know this because of a video that went viral. And in this viral video, they were announcing their resignation from coaching.
00:01:23.060Hi, Dave Brown from Stand Tall. Last night, my wife and I resigned our head coaching positions for varsity and JV girls tennis at our high school we were at.
00:01:32.420For the last 25 years, I've coached varsity basketball, varsity tennis, coached in over 1,090 games, won 667 and lost 123.
00:01:42.600I've had a lot of success, but I finally reached the point where I had to resign last night because of boys playing girls tennis.
00:01:50.140And the reason we did is we're just not going to support boys playing girls sports. This is wrong on every level. These are not girls. They're boys saying they're a girl.
00:02:00.400They're playing a fall sport. Come back and play a girls sport and go back to playing a boys sport. All I have to do is change the paperwork to the district office.
00:02:08.280I'm not going to support it. I'm never going to lie to a kid. I'm going to support my wife, who was a pioneer in Title IX.
00:02:13.800And every other girl that's come along now expects every adult to do the right thing and protect them. We're not protecting girls now.
00:02:21.420K-12 and women's sports, we're allowing men or boys to play in these sports. It's dangerous. It's wrong.
00:02:28.700We have boys in the locker rooms watching girls go through their get ready for practice or a match or a game.
00:02:35.520How wrong is that for a girl to have to endure something like that? What we would have called five or six years ago, somebody going to jail, is now acceptable in high schools and middle schools.
00:02:46.240This is absolutely wrong when a girl has to fear this, but she can't say anything.
00:02:50.740After all those years, because they could no longer sit on the side and watch as boys, took girls' opportunities away.
00:02:59.700It was an incredibly hard decision for them, but it was something that they deemed necessary and that they deemed worthy.
00:03:06.280It was worth it to them. They have taken an incredibly brave stance.
00:03:10.380They've got incredible things planned in the future, and I am excited to interview them.
00:03:14.580Check out the interview with Dave and Judy Brown.
00:03:18.180Well, Dave and Judy, thank you both so much for coming on my podcast.
00:03:23.080Really, you guys had a video. It went viral.
00:03:26.220This video was basically you both announcing why you were going to be resigning from your coaching position.
00:03:34.000This video went viral for all the right reasons.
00:03:37.040And so I just wanted to ask you, I mean, one thing I noticed actually from the video was that you knew how many games you played.
00:03:45.820You knew how many games you won, how many games you lost over 25 years.
00:03:50.040So your passion and your commitment to the success and the betterment of these girls is unquestionable.
00:03:56.980And so I guess I just want to ask you, you know, what was your final straw in resigning?
00:04:03.040You know, I think we both coached for, you know, ever in different sports, you know, tennis, basketball, football for me.
00:04:12.920Judy's done volleyball and basketball and softball, now tennis.
00:04:17.280And I think for us, it was always the integrity we had with every kid.
00:04:21.360And the last four years, we got to coach together, which was amazing, the first time ever.
00:04:25.540And, you know, when you work with young people, we just wanted them all to know they were safe and that we were going to back them up no matter what.
00:04:35.360And we were going to try to put them in the best position to have fun, be successful.
00:04:39.660You know, some kids are better than other kids for sure, but they all deserve, you know, the coach's best effort.
00:04:44.720And I think for us, the final thing when we started seeing boys playing girls sports, we were just thrown back.
00:04:55.040But when we started seeing that and we had a real personal friend in the middle of something at the state tennis tournament, it just really threw us into a loop.
00:05:03.960So we did some summer tennis and then we came back and we kept having this conversation.
00:05:09.280Like, how can we abide under the Oregon State Athletic Association when we take tests for, like we said, you know, concussion protocol, first aid, sexual abuse, all this kind of stuff.
00:05:22.240We have to pass before we can actually coach.
00:05:25.920And yet at the same time, we're supporting an organization that's saying boys can play girls sports.
00:05:30.620And we just couldn't keep going with that.
00:05:35.360So, honestly, you were a big inspiration to us, too, because we said, you know, if you're willing to put all that out there like you did, it makes it easier for the next person to do it.
00:06:21.780So, I mean, how tragic is that really to have a girl accused of transphobia for merely not wanting to compete against boys and then to go into it almost certain that her side won't even be heard in the situation?
00:06:38.980It's a pretty terrible message they're sending to these young girls.
00:06:42.960But I didn't realize, you know, this, like you just said, this was something you guys were thinking about for a while.
00:06:48.780I can't imagine it was an easy decision for you both.
00:06:53.380But like I said, I couldn't be more grateful for you.
00:06:57.140But I wanted to know, you know, what has been the response that you've received from from athletes you've coached, from other parents of these athletes, from, I would say, just the general public?
00:07:36.540We have kids from other sports coming out, but they're sad.
00:07:40.960But they also see that they're girls and they want to play with girls.
00:07:47.180Yeah, I think I'd add to that, too, is I know they're frustrated.
00:07:52.960You know, any time you switch jobs, you know, the retirement thing for us, you know, from public schools, it's always tough.
00:07:59.320And there's always going to be that senior class that last year that the coach isn't going to be there, that, you know, like Nick Saban just, you know, retired from Alabama.
00:08:10.560And it would have taken something like this, Riley, to put us in a situation to say, this is way bigger than us, way bigger than coaching, way bigger than tennis, swimming, whatever.
00:08:23.640And I think sometimes you have to just put yourself in a situation where maybe you're leading a little bit, you know, look, we're quite a bit older than you and you've led us into this, this situation.
00:08:37.520And it's it's something that we really want to be part of.
00:08:40.740Well, you you certainly set the precedent.
00:08:44.260I don't know if you guys saw the film produced by Daily Wire.
00:09:07.320And I got to go to the premiere and I watched it.
00:09:09.140It was actually Clay Travis, who is the owner of OutKick.
00:09:12.360And he played the role of a coach of a woman's team who was going against the five boys who were posing as women.
00:09:19.660And he was one of the only coaches who or he was the only coach who said, no, you know, my girls aren't going to go through this.
00:09:25.740And when I was watching the film, again, this comedy, I was emotional, like I had tears in my eyes because it was something that of this whole film that's meant to be funny and haha.
00:09:35.720That was the one part that wasn't actually playing out in real life.
00:09:39.940But now it is because of people like you.
00:09:43.640And yeah, you mentioned, you know, feeling conflicted.
00:09:46.640And I imagine it's a hard thought to know, you know, you leaving.
00:09:53.400Have you thought about, you know, potentially being replaced by someone who who does embrace this movement?
00:09:59.700Well, I think one of the things we've learned through being in public education, coaching the last four years, being on the school board and, you know, as the world changed with COVID and Mr. Floyd passing away, you know, the cultural revolution in our country has been tough.
00:10:18.480And, you know, so we try to stay in our lane and, you know, we like we love Canby High School.
00:10:26.020It was it was awesome where we were coaching.
00:10:27.560We live in Newburgh, worked in a Newburgh schools, but what we can control and what we can do moving forward, you know, try to stay focused on that.
00:10:35.860And I'm sure they'll get some males to coach.
00:10:39.920You always think you're the best person for the job.
00:10:42.160And that part's really hard to walk away from, because we were talking earlier today and I told Jude, I said, I think it's been somewhere around most of the last 40 years coaching, you know, youth sports, you know, up to AU, you know, all the way through to being paid as a coach.
00:11:01.040So I think we're going to let those guys make those kind of decisions.
00:11:07.820I certainly wasn't prepared for what we've heard, you know, coming back on all the social media, the real stories.
00:11:16.460It's just heartbreaking to hear stuff.
00:11:19.700And when I first met like Judy, I was kind of personal, but she had breast cancer and I didn't know anything about that until I got to walk through that process with her.
00:11:29.400And, you know, guys just don't know a lot sometimes until you walk through it.
00:12:12.960I think just to answer, I really hope this inspires dads to back daughters for dads and daughters to just connect a little bit more.
00:12:22.600Because I had an amazing father who who had a job, but he would come home and and I tell the story about how I'm so competitive, Riley.
00:12:32.660I'm I'm not at the elite level like you, but he would get on my banana seat bike and I'd ride around the neighborhood and he would tie me on his little Timex, you know, watch.
00:12:47.140And I think just those little connections that dad's connecting with daughters and then seeing what's happening on the field or in the swim pool or wherever they might be participating in a sport.
00:12:59.320And I think getting that connection and that feeling of what that does for girls.
00:13:07.140One of our big things we talked about two and a half years ago when we first started this conversation about this was we felt like dads are being pretty weak, you know, in general.
00:13:16.880And I think it's society's putting them down.
00:13:20.460They're too busy with all their stuff.
00:13:22.740And I think there's not a dad out there doesn't love his daughter or son.
00:13:28.020Sometimes I think they just need to be slapped around a little bit and wake up and get going.
00:13:31.760And that's what we're going to try to do is stand tall is just get him to to stand up.
00:13:35.580And we're going to try to encourage the girls.
00:13:37.800Judy's going to do a lot of that, you know, to go talk to your dad, help him through the process.
00:13:41.600Because, you know, men are going to get it to a certain point and they're going to need some help to get across the finish line when it comes to understanding how big a problem this is.
00:13:50.440And I think the girls would be awesome for any girl out there to see her dad have her back all the way through a school board meeting or a coach's meeting with an AD or anything like that.
00:15:19.220I saw you posted another video basically saying what other school board members and coaches and leaders who are in powerful positions, positions where they're supposed to be protecting these athletes or young people in general, what can they do if they're faced with this?
00:15:40.240Well, I think what we try to post in that next thing, we've got a great team around us and our good person, Rose, one of our producers, she brought this up.
00:16:23.080And so what's going to be done there is, you know, we're trying to challenge them, you know, look at your policies, look what's going on in your district, talk to your kids.
00:16:31.800I think they need to talk to the kids because a lot of times kids don't come home and just tell their parents the negative stuff because they don't want to get into a bunch of drama.
00:16:39.440They certainly don't want mom and dad going down and chewing out the coach.
00:16:43.240Kids try to avoid all that kind of stuff at all costs.
00:16:47.000And so I think that the school boards do have a lot more power than they think.
00:16:52.060But in Oregon, the Oregon Department of Education kind of has the kind of has them under control a little bit.
00:17:00.980Oregon State School Board Association.
00:17:02.360So a lot of times school board members don't know.
00:17:04.900So we're going to try to help them with that.
00:17:08.220In states like Oregon and California and Michigan and New York, these pretty left-leaning blue states.
00:17:16.900I see people all the time living in Tennessee.
00:17:19.460Look, we have a ton of you guys coming down to my state.
00:17:23.540And, of course, you know, you ask yourselves, are they leaving for because they recognize what's going on here?
00:17:28.520Is it working or are they leaving to California, my Tennessee?
00:17:32.880So I guess I wanted to ask you all, you know, do you feel to a degree hopeless or do you feel as if there is certainly work that can and will be done in these these liberal states?
00:17:46.160Well, I'm going to let Judy jump in there, too.
00:17:48.660I think for me, I'm never hopeless as a coach.
00:17:50.860I'm always going to try to beat you up with a way to be competitive.
00:17:55.340We've never coached at the school with the most talent, but we're going to find a way.
00:19:46.980But if we just take one girl, one team at a time, one coach at a time, just to be more aware, to make that decision, to stand up, to say no to some situations, I think then we're helping.
00:22:06.820It's really there's six of us, you know, Judy and I and four others.
00:22:10.680And we started two and a half years ago.
00:22:13.160And what we're going to try to do is support people that are, you know, getting out there, active in the communities, you know, running for school boards, running for political different places.
00:23:21.920You know, out here, it's pretty, you know, the grading has gotten thinned down.
00:23:25.540The graduation rates have gotten thinned down.
00:23:27.840And honestly, sports is one of the last frontiers where we're kind of still pretty normal when it comes to at least being tough on kids, competitive, working hard.
00:23:36.700And so we want to be in that area, too.
00:23:39.400And then, you know, older people, I think, just, you know, get away from Jeopardy and start getting involved, man.
00:23:45.860Get out there and do something and help us out because we want to get them going, too.
00:23:51.800A lot of experience out there, a lot of former educators.
00:23:55.580Last thing I think in there, if you're an educator now in Oregon, you can't say much.
00:24:14.280From the bottom of my heart, I think you're really impacting more people than you know in a positive way and really setting the precedent, setting the standard, I would say, for every other coach out there.
00:24:29.180It is so important to support the people who are putting their necks out there.
00:24:34.360Understand he's coming from Portland, Oregon, and he's done something that people, even in conservative states, would find scary and fearful.
00:24:42.440But despite the fear, they did what they believed is moral and just and fair and ethical, the right thing to do.
00:24:51.420We need more people who are willing to do the right thing.
00:24:54.820I imagine we will be seeing more from them.
00:24:57.920Make sure you check out everything they've got going on.
00:25:00.340Again, Stand Tall with Dave Brown and his amazing wife, Judy.