Gaines for Girls with Riley Gaines - Swinging from the REAL Ladies' Tees

00:00:00.000 hello everybody welcome back to the gains for girls podcast uh i say it every time i i start

00:00:13.360 one of these episodes but i truly could not be more grateful for your support uh that you are

00:00:18.880 here watching this right now uh you can check out all things gains for girls at outkick.com

00:00:24.220 i encourage you to do so you can like and comment and subscribe and share these episodes with your

00:00:29.120 friends uh today's episode is a a pretty special one uh it involves a couple athletes a couple

00:00:36.580 professional athletes who have been at the forefront of the movement to protect women's sports

00:00:42.300 in particular protecting the sport of golf uh women's golf the lpga really has been at the

00:00:52.500 epicenter of these these sex eligibility policies and they've faced some serious scrutiny because

00:00:59.040 in 2010 uh the lpga again the ladies that's what the l stands for uh the ladies professional golf

00:01:06.520 association changed their policy to allow men who identify as transgender who have undergone

00:01:13.720 hormone therapy and surgery to compete against women there's one athlete in particular one golfer

00:01:20.760 one man in particular uh by the name of hayley davidson who who really took the golf community

00:01:27.140 by storm uh he advanced to the lpga's qualifying series uh he competed against uh these golfers who

00:01:35.880 who were talking to today uh for a spot at the on the women's lpga tour uh we've seen of course

00:01:44.720 photos we we've heard other athletes like lauren miller and dana fall and and other female golfers who

00:01:50.440 have had to compete against him speak out that all of these women have have really led the charge

00:01:56.260 creating petitions signing on to petitions uh sending letters to the lpga and the usga and the igf

00:02:02.980 all to urge them to do the right thing seems pretty self-explanatory but it took the lpga a long time

00:02:11.020 but finally um a long awaited rule change uh the lpga finally came out now and decided to update their

00:02:20.700 policies and prevent men who have gone through male puberty uh competing against the women

00:02:26.860 uh the policy i believe is less than satisfactory in the sense that uh it insinuates if you have

00:02:34.080 if you haven't excuse me gone through male puberty uh then you can compete with the women which i

00:02:39.780 believe uh is almost an encouragement to people as young as 12 years old to chemically and surgically

00:02:46.040 sterilize and castrate themselves which uh i think is criminal to suggest or encourage by any means

00:02:53.220 but nonetheless this policy change is worth celebrating because it is a bold first step

00:02:59.800 in prioritizing fairness over inclusion uh all of these athletes we are going to talk to today

00:03:07.600 three professional golfers uh and might i mention uh they're all subjects in the independent women's

00:03:14.360 forum uh tea time it is a a series it is called tea time keep women's golf female uh we've had

00:03:21.920 several independent women's forum ambassadors on on this podcast before people like presha mosley

00:03:28.300 a detransitioner people like amy ichikawa who is uh doing phenomenal work in women's prisons and

00:03:35.740 protecting those from from male inmates who are oftentimes convicted of violent sexual crimes

00:03:40.780 realizing that the quickest way to get into a woman's prison which sounds awesome to a rapist

00:03:45.000 is to say he is a woman um all phenomenal episodes uh hector he's another correctional officer who who

00:03:52.300 was um did some work alongside iw and their features uh series and so please follow them at iwf on all

00:04:02.200 socials uh iw features on x um use the hashtag keep women's golf female they're doing really really awesome work

00:04:10.460 uh so please please check them out i'm a proud ambassador of them by the way um but the three

00:04:17.720 golfers professional golfers that we will be talking to today is christiana allison and zoe and you can

00:04:24.180 hear the interview right here well you guys or should i say gals that feels very pertinent today

00:04:31.200 um i could not be more grateful for the opportunity to to be able to speak with you and to thank you for

00:04:38.180 everything that you have done for for your sports uh for this new ruling that came out this this past

00:04:44.680 week uh but broader than that everything you guys have done for the next generation of women to come

00:04:50.380 and so very very excited for this conversation today uh i just wanted to start by asking each of you to

00:04:58.060 give a little a little bit of your background on uh of course your athletic career um but really i think

00:05:05.840 what got you into golf and some of the sacrifices you had to make to be as successful as each of you

00:05:12.160 are and so uh we'll start with you zoe yeah so i started golf when i was 14 years old in high school

00:05:19.720 and it was kind of love at first sight my dad introduced me to the game and i fell in love with

00:05:26.180 the just it was me i wasn't relying on teammates it was like i either make this putter i don't kind of

00:05:33.680 thing so i just fell in love with that aspect of the sport um but yeah that's it's just you know

00:05:40.280 the sacrifices have been giving up time on the weekends to go play a tournament instead of going

00:05:45.860 out with friends or you know it's going on a sunday afternoon to go hit bald when i should be studying

00:05:53.560 maybe so it's just those little sacrifices along the way of course i think it's important uh especially

00:06:00.500 for those who maybe didn't play sports to understand uh the time and the commitment and

00:06:05.620 the dedication and so uh christiana i imagine it's it's a similar i imagine you started when you were

00:06:10.760 young as well yeah i started when i was young also i started at age 11 um my grandma got me into the

00:06:17.500 sport uh she just was an advocate for it and loved going out and spending time with her friends on the

00:06:22.880 weekends and during the week uh outside playing golf and once i started getting into it i just got

00:06:28.980 hooked i was always playing sports but golf had a special uniqueness to it so that's what got me

00:06:35.440 into it and i loved competing and not having to rely on other people and having that individual

00:06:40.160 aspect as well and then played all through high school and loved competing and being out there with

00:06:46.220 my friends just goofing off having a good time that i pursued it through college and got more and more

00:06:51.400 competitive as i continued and just loved the sport and it was hard to make sacrifices but at the

00:06:58.320 same time it was enjoyable because i loved playing golf i was always itching to get out of school

00:07:04.320 early to go to the golf course and work on my game and just try new things and experience new courses

00:07:11.180 so while the sacrifices were hard and i had to give up a lot of family and friend functions it was

00:07:17.000 really enjoyable yeah it is it's like a a love hate relationship to a degree on some days at least

00:07:22.680 that's how how i felt in my sport which it's interesting you guys describe it as you know

00:07:28.140 you're you're on a team to some degree but you really are playing and competing for yourself which

00:07:33.560 is very similar to to swimming and it's an aspect i love about my sport as well so um the the parallels

00:07:39.620 are are certainly there and allison again i i imagine it's a similar background uh for you as well in the

00:07:46.560 sense of it took up a large part of your your time and a big chunk of your life yeah for sure so um

00:07:53.860 similar to christiana i got started when i was around 10 or 11 my dad got my older brother and i

00:08:00.120 into the sport and we grew up playing my brother took to it like white on rice and i was a little slower

00:08:07.120 but i was always getting taken to the course and dropped off that was like mom's favorite babysitter

00:08:12.660 during the summers and so i just grew up and the rest is history and funny enough zoe and i ended up

00:08:20.060 playing as teammates in college so in the terms of sacrifice like that's one of the best times of

00:08:25.720 your life and you really see as an athlete where you have to realize your priorities and you're what

00:08:32.860 you are trying to achieve and your goals and so there's just a lot of those day-to-day experiences and

00:08:38.580 what we would say like oh the college life that you definitely put on a shelf because you're there

00:08:44.880 and you have your sport uh that you love to compete in and play and so just a lot of those

00:08:50.500 and but like christiana said it wasn't really the sacrifices are there on paper but i think in our

00:08:57.020 minds and in our emotions it didn't feel that terrible because we were definitely doing what we love to do

00:09:01.840 and um it's pretty cool you and zoe were teammates that that to me was the best part of of my sport

00:09:08.220 was those people who who happened to be your teammates also grew to be your best friends uh my

00:09:14.380 husband was a swimmer of course that's how i met him and so you're right there there's a lot of

00:09:19.240 sacrifice there's a lot of grueling aspects about it but the good certainly outweighs the bad and i i

00:09:25.480 imagine most athletes especially competing at y'all's level goodness gracious making it to

00:09:30.240 to the professional level uh i would imagine there are are many who agree with you and so

00:09:36.800 this this conversation that golf uh the sport of golf uh in particular the lpga has found itself

00:09:45.320 uh really at the center of uh it's been happening and growing at an exponential rate at the state level

00:09:53.080 the national level uh but you three decided to to take a stand and so i wanted to know what that

00:10:00.840 looked like for you all you know what were some of the the deciding factors that allowed you to feel

00:10:07.460 secure and confident enough to really take that initial leap of faith my biggest i guess deciding

00:10:13.720 factor i mean i after school after i graduate i knew i wanted to play professional golf but it wasn't

00:10:20.360 it wasn't set in stone yet i actually went to the corporate world for almost two years and my prayer

00:10:26.600 was kind of just like lord like if i'm supposed to be playing professional golf like make a way and

00:10:32.520 he did and one of my prayers was if i need because you know this whole gender problem was seeping into

00:10:40.080 the golf world and one of my prayers was just you know if i'm supposed to be out there to take a stand

00:10:47.240 like let me have the courage to do that so when this arose when the petition came out i think it

00:10:53.200 was just like okay like yes i have to take a stand like the lord is putting this right here in front of

00:10:59.280 my face what about you allison similar to zoe in terms of the faith is personally for me a massive

00:11:06.600 driver for everything that i do um but also just my love for just fellow female athletes like i yes i grew up a

00:11:17.000 golfer but in the big scheme of thing i grew up an athlete i was friends with all the girls that

00:11:21.080 played other sports and having a brother that also played sports it was kind of at first like

00:11:28.720 bewildering because it was like all of a sudden you had to explain to people that two plus two equals

00:11:33.420 four just logic but i was like i can't compete against my brother like that's not a fair like just in

00:11:40.900 general and so i think when everything started coming out and the opportunities just kind of

00:11:48.040 um presented themselves it was hannah arnold's a really person close friend of mine that i gained

00:11:53.720 on tour and when through word of mouth like i learned about the movement it wasn't even like a second

00:11:58.820 thought i was i love all the girls that i compete with i love and now as um a little part-time job in

00:12:06.400 order to help support my dream of tour i now am an assistant coach at a university and i have these

00:12:12.900 sweet young women that i'm helping just encourage and all this is their future just as much as it is

00:12:19.260 my current situation like if they want to be able to have a platform to compete and go on in their

00:12:24.360 future like you've got to protect and give these sweet girls the opportunity and so it was that was

00:12:31.200 really my driving factor is just all the love for people around me and just fighting for their chance

00:12:37.440 to play like i mean the pga they already make way more than we do they've got enough on the guy's side

00:12:43.440 fight for the girls absolutely absolutely and christiana uh yeah for me it was similar to zoe

00:12:50.600 whenever i pursued golf i knew it was greater than just playing golf i wanted to have an impact on my

00:12:56.560 community and when i saw the petition come out i was really drawn to like speaking about it because

00:13:03.800 i knew it was like growing up playing against the boys because in utah the golf scene was young so i

00:13:09.960 grew up playing against the boys and i was always at a disadvantage and i knew that there was definitely

00:13:15.500 disadvantages um male and female wise and i wanted to be able to authentically play my sport and compete

00:13:24.060 against those like me and not have to feel like i was a disadvantage by just stepping on the first tee

00:13:30.040 by being out there i wanted to be able to compete to the fullest and pursue what i always dreamed of

00:13:37.120 pursuing and the opportunity arose that i could make an impact and if that's how i left the golf community

00:13:44.380 a little bit better at the end of the day it's worth it these advantages again it's kind of crazy we have

00:13:52.060 to mention them or allude to them because i think you know kindergartners uh seem to understand the

00:13:57.960 difference between boys and girls and men and women but what about in the sport of golf in particular

00:14:04.420 like what are some of the the differences that maybe the average person who doesn't play

00:14:09.500 uh what are some of the advantages that a male might possess over a woman i know personally it's a lot

00:14:16.720 of distance and speed men typically generate higher club head speed and ball speed at the same time so

00:14:23.940 they can hit the ball further they can compress the ball a little bit better so it's just a different

00:14:29.940 style of golf at the end of the day they can hit the ball different they can hit different shot shapes and

00:14:36.500 uh hit a lot of different shots that we're not able to and that's one of the biggest factors is that

00:14:42.740 biological difference of speed yeah no that makes sense what about the response you guys have have

00:14:49.480 had uh do you feel like it's been positive negative have you felt support amongst the golf community uh

00:14:57.920 but i think even broader than that amongst the general public uh we can i can ask you zoe um yeah i've

00:15:04.280 i've had both good and bad feedback um i kind of knew going into this like taking a stand you're going to

00:15:10.460 get the ugly like keyboard bullies as i like to call them but i mean it's just whatever like you

00:15:17.820 just got to ignore that because there's a lot more positive feedback coming from friends family and just

00:15:24.660 people i don't even know um so just remembering that there's more positive than the good or than the

00:15:30.720 bad um but yeah those those uh ugly comments can sometimes run in space in your head but yeah it's true

00:15:38.380 but you're you're right in saying when you know what you're fighting for and when you know

00:15:43.740 know really who you're fighting for um i've grown to to become i mean comfortable and secure in the

00:15:51.880 fact that uh and and i think it's important to mention too you mentioned your faith i mean

00:15:56.400 we're we're we're told uh we're warned uh that we will be persecuted in the same way that he was

00:16:03.000 persecuted for sharing his values so i think that to me is is certainly reassurance to to continue

00:16:10.880 onwards with with full steam ahead um but like i i mentioned that at the beginning of of uh this

00:16:17.820 this podcast again this conversation that we're having is coming off the heels of a pretty exciting

00:16:25.380 and unprecedented heel uh rule change from the lpga and the usga uh they have now announced that

00:16:33.720 they're they're putting policies in place that prohibit males uh who have decided to transition after

00:16:39.960 puberty from participating in women's event uh i believe this is something that has the lpga has

00:16:48.320 wanted to do for a long time uh but there were there were um external factors uh whether that be

00:16:55.100 fear whether that be uh not wanting to be sued whatever it is that that ultimately prevented them from

00:17:01.920 from taking these these actions and this measure um but allison what is your message i think to the lpga

00:17:10.120 the usga igf uh following this change now we're truly just a big thank you it's i know is a massive

00:17:19.820 organization it's hard sometimes to to say things because you you think you're governing sports and then

00:17:27.240 on the next day the world wants to tell you that you have to play politics um instead and i just

00:17:35.620 appreciate that the lpga decided because it's it's hard but i would just encourage them and say look

00:17:43.840 we're not here to play social justice issues or anything we're not telling anyone who can put a bow

00:17:49.820 in their hair we're just letting people know that the bow is not what determines what category you get

00:17:54.260 to compete in go put a bow in your hair whoever you are but it's that doesn't determine we don't all

00:17:58.940 play on the same league just because we're wearing a bow like that isn't what is defining our category

00:18:05.120 in sports and i think that they they've done good i it's a huge relief and truly like you were saying

00:18:15.460 like the feedback it's not even i think 100 for me personally all of the players all of the competitors

00:18:22.540 no one is against this ruling everyone is so supportive i think the only hesitation was coming

00:18:29.060 from the big organizations and like you were saying like their fear of just playing politics or like

00:18:36.340 trying to avoid a lawsuit but which is sad that they have to face that but i would just let them know

00:18:40.940 that at the end of the day they i know that their main goal is to protect their players and the

00:18:46.400 satisfaction of their players and just know that their players are 100 excited and behind them

00:18:52.180 on the decision that they're making christiana do you feel like i'll tell you how i feel personally i

00:19:02.120 guess i feel like over the past few weeks like a very short amount of time it feels like cancel culture

00:19:10.360 is is is fading and again i think that's something that impacted uh the lpga for a long time but it

00:19:16.880 feels like the air has shifted um is that something that that you see amongst as as described your

00:19:24.660 teammates or or people on on teams that you compete against i have definitely kind of seen a trend of

00:19:31.360 where people are understanding the reality of the circumstance and um the idea of cancel culture has

00:19:39.180 kind of kind of not been present in my community they've always been super supportive but i also feel like

00:19:46.880 when the information is fully laid out that it's hard to cancel something that the facts all point to the

00:19:54.860 right way so it's like such a double-edged sword where it's like how can you argue the facts and you

00:20:02.840 see that decline and cancel culture when you look at the facts and people are presented with all the

00:20:08.760 information and that's when positive change happens no i totally agree with you but i fear that's too

00:20:14.700 logical for some um last question for for you guys and i want to ask each of you um what's your advice

00:20:23.680 to other golfers or other female athletes who want to speak out but about this issue in particular

00:20:32.140 of men playing in women's sports but are hesitant due to fear or backlash or maybe potential

00:20:37.780 repercussions they may face yeah i think it's just important to be bold um for me i'm bold in my

00:20:44.580 faith and you know i'm not afraid to take a stand but like you were saying this cancel culture is

00:20:51.160 maybe taking a back seat but i think it's important for us to continue standing and not be complacent and

00:20:57.440 not let these things just brush under the rug because we'll be back in the same position down the road

00:21:02.820 so i think it's important for the younger generation coming up and you know i want i want my little

00:21:08.780 girls to be able to play in a girls league so you know just supporting the girls behind us to to stand

00:21:15.940 up be bold and be brave absolutely absolutely christiana i think for me it's definitely an

00:21:22.940 internal look like you can't judge what you stand up against based off of what the world will think

00:21:28.540 because the world will always counteract everything you say so you have to look inward and see what do you

00:21:34.560 believe in what are your stances uh where does your faith lie and speak off of that if there's

00:21:41.060 something that moves your heart obviously god's calling you to speak about that so be bold and

00:21:46.480 obedient and speaking out and know that positive change is never comfortable but it's good because we

00:21:55.100 got to live in that uncomfortability and that's when things grow and that's where we get the opportunity

00:22:00.800 to be bold absolutely you guys are inspiring me and allison honestly just echoing what these two

00:22:07.740 other amazing women have said it's i would just say it's what your values are in belief and for me

00:22:14.900 personally sometimes it's hard like to think okay if i if i feel strongly about something how do i get

00:22:20.480 my voice out and i think god definitely will provide that platform um for me the independent

00:22:28.460 women's forum they kind of reached out and said hey would you help become an advocacy uh for our

00:22:35.980 fight that we're trying to press and have the lpga make a ruling in favor of the female athletes and

00:22:44.020 that was when i was like absolutely it wasn't a second thought so just encouraging all the young

00:22:51.340 women like if you feel strongly it's great like i think keep your beliefs keep your convictions and i promise

00:22:58.220 like opportunities will present themselves to you and when the time is ready like you you'll be able

00:23:03.180 to have a voice and stand up for what you believe and i just you never can get a back a long-term

00:23:10.360 eternal discount on standing up for what is right it's always going to be the best thing in the long run

00:23:17.820 that's right that's right and i'm so glad actually you mentioned independent women's forum

00:23:22.220 uh because i was just about to say they have really done phenomenal work they were a large part

00:23:28.680 uh i believe in this rule change that that you guys will benefit from as well so many women uh i watch

00:23:36.060 all of your episodes um they have a phenomenal series on their iw features it is called tea time

00:23:42.300 keep women's golf female again it's a series um so i encourage everyone to go check that out

00:23:48.440 um but it features firsthand stories of of current female professional golfers uh like yourselves and

00:23:55.820 their love for the game and the advocacy efforts to to urge the lpga uh the world's most prestigious

00:24:03.240 women's golf organization as well as the usga and the igf again to to reimplement these sex-based

00:24:10.220 eligibility policies uh and maintain the integrity of women's golf um so again you can check that out

00:24:17.600 at iwfeatures.com uh independent women's forum has just been doing phenomenal work across the board

00:24:23.640 but uh really worth highlighting the work they've done in women's golf uh and so thank you again to you

00:24:30.040 all for being willing to participate in that um because it it really made a difference as we have now

00:24:37.340 as we've now seen so again uh i thank you guys i'm so proud of you guys um you you really are

00:24:45.060 setting the standard for so many other women to follow uh and so we will continue to cheer you on

00:24:51.080 uh whether that's um you know in whatever realm of life uh but we are so grateful for you and your

00:24:58.060 bold leadership and your stand in your faith so thank you girls again thank you guys for tuning in

00:25:04.940 to the gains for girls podcast uh it's always remarkable to me i've been doing this i've been having

00:25:10.740 this same conversation for for over two years now but but every time especially when i'm talking to

00:25:17.340 to young girls who have had to bear this burden because their leaders will not um every time i leave

00:25:25.140 feeling inspired and more courageous than before uh i went into the conversation so i applaud them

00:25:32.060 uh for for the actions that they have taken to ensure the lpga did what they now have done

00:25:39.740 uh the l in lpga finally means something again which is a victory worth celebrating i'll remind you one

00:25:48.120 more time to check out independent women's forum uh follow them at iwf and iwfeatures on x uh you can go to

00:25:57.300 to youtube and type in tea time keep women golf female and see the series that they've got going

00:26:02.520 on there you can hear a more in-depth account from christiana and allison and zoe and other

00:26:07.980 female current former professional golfers uh really really awesome work that the independent

00:26:14.100 women's forum is doing um we thank you guys again check us out at outkick.com you can see that

00:26:20.280 my episodes you can see other outkick contributors what we've got going on like

00:26:25.460 subscribe and comment share these episodes and we will see you guys again next week and might i add

00:26:32.020 merry christmas

Gaines for Girls with Riley Gaines - December 18, 2024

Swinging from the REAL Ladies' Tees

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