Gaines for Girls with Riley Gaines - Taking on the NCAA with Kaitlynn Wheeler

00:00:00.000 welcome back to the gains for girls podcast i've been traveling like a mad woman recently um i'm

00:00:13.460 in the midst of my college campus speaking tour uh through the riley gains center at the leadership

00:00:18.980 institute so last week i just was at georgia tech and university of georgia and university

00:00:23.860 of tampa university of florida next week i am going to cal berkeley so this might be the last episode

00:00:30.980 of gains for girls ever because i might not make it out of there alive um the last time i was in the

00:00:37.020 bay area san francisco it did not go swimmingly no pun intended uh but nonetheless i'm very excited

00:00:43.640 sometimes you have to insert yourself into the belly of the beast because those are the people

00:00:48.000 who need to hear the message most um but today's episode today's guest i'm thrilled uh i've known

00:00:55.320 her for many years as she's someone who i love i trust she's an amazing person with the heart of gold

00:01:01.540 uh you might have seen in recent weeks that the ncaa has now been served a lawsuit really the first of

00:01:10.440 its kind lawsuit that has been spearheaded by myself and 15 other athletes who have been adversely

00:01:16.180 impacted at the hands of the ncaa and their policies in place um their transgender policies

00:01:22.180 um today's guest is one of those plaintiffs who has signed on to the lawsuit uh she was a collegiate 1.00

00:01:28.220 swimmer at university of kentucky with me uh so we swam together she's a grade younger than me so we

00:01:33.440 swam together my sophomore junior senior year we were training partners we swam the same events and so

00:01:38.600 every single day uh we were in the lane right next to each other fighting to keep up with one another

00:01:43.560 um i i it's impossible to put into words really the amount of time and the hours that we spent

00:01:49.800 training side by side uh i love her to death she is someone who has courageously now put her name and

00:01:57.440 her face to this issue she swam the same events as leah formerly will thomas at that national

00:02:04.460 championships and so she was displaced because of him of course also had to change in the locker room 1.00

00:02:09.300 with him but her story is is incredibly inspiring in the way that she found her voice because it was

00:02:16.320 ultimately when her sister was impacted her younger sister uh we will be talking about that lawsuit all 0.63

00:02:23.320 things this issue in this episode uh so check out my interview with caitlin wheeler well caitlin um

00:02:30.420 which it's weird calling you caitlin honestly for the viewers purposes uh of course we swam in college

00:02:36.880 together your name your last name is wheeler everyone called you wheels and so for the purpose

00:02:41.420 of i guess my own sanity and what i'm comfortable with i'm calling you wheels on this podcast um but

00:02:49.040 man we could sit on here and talk for hours about just our memories and all of the the stories we have

00:02:55.200 to tell about our time together swimming at kentucky um but i wanted you to just tell us a little bit

00:03:01.280 about you um of course your college experience uh because our college experience was nothing short

00:03:07.280 of crazy and of course the way that we dealt with competing against and changing a locker room with

00:03:13.620 a man but i think people forget or maybe don't even realize that we were athletes college athletes

00:03:20.000 during the time of covid which was a whole different separate experience but there's a lot of parallels so

00:03:25.900 just tell us a little bit about you and your college experience yeah well thanks riley and

00:03:31.520 wheels is definitely that sounds a lot more natural um than caitlin um so you could definitely call me

00:03:37.800 wheels but yeah a little bit about me i grew up swimming i started swimming when i was four years old

00:03:43.020 um swimming had really been a big part of my life for 18 years um i'm a year retired now from swimming

00:03:51.460 and um i'm really i'm really fortunate to have had the sport of swimming because it really taught me a lot of

00:03:58.040 things um but uh one of my one of my goals early on in swimming was to swim in college and so i was

00:04:05.860 fortunate enough to be able to swim at kentucky um and like you said we were faced with a lot of adversity

00:04:12.980 a lot of challenges um coming in my freshman year obviously you're thrown all of these new curveball

00:04:20.060 that you know that you have to adjust to training you have to adjust to just being a college student

00:04:25.960 um i i moved six hours away from home so it was kind of really the first time i've been away from my

00:04:32.220 family uh ever and so it was a huge adjustment for me um but that year i was really just trying to keep

00:04:40.660 my head above water um as i'm sure you could relate it to freshman year you're just trying to get

00:04:46.260 through you're trying to learn um your place on the team you're trying to figure out training your

00:04:50.400 bodies like just trying to keep up with the pace of college uh being a college athlete and so

00:04:55.820 um that that first season um you know i did pretty well i would say um obviously i had some

00:05:05.380 really uh high goals and stuff but that that first year was a struggle for sure i was fortunate

00:05:10.520 enough to be able to go to nba's i was going to get to go on a relay and about a few days before

00:05:16.040 the meet we were able to pull out of practice and told that we had to uh pack up our stuff and go home

00:05:22.280 and that nba's was canceled um so it was really disappointing because you know you work months

00:05:28.300 endlessly um to to finish the season which is really like the pinnacle of the season that's where

00:05:34.960 you'd kind of get to suit up and paper down and um really see results and stuff and so not being able

00:05:42.720 to kind of put the bow tie on that season was really disappointing um we were then faced with

00:05:49.640 covid which was a crazy experience for really everyone in the world but being a student athlete

00:05:55.520 it was it was much more difficult because there were no gyms open there were no pools open and being

00:06:00.580 a swimmer you have to stay in the pool in order to stay shape in shape and so i remember swimming in

00:06:06.160 a pond down the street from my house i was super cold um i don't really know how much i got out of

00:06:11.800 it but i knew that i needed to stay in the water to some capacity so that way when i returned in the

00:06:16.540 fall i could be in some some type of shape and so um returning in the fall you know we were faced

00:06:24.580 with covid going into that fall obviously we had a lot of restrictions we got a lot of masking a lot of

00:06:30.160 um you know telling us we needed to get the vaccine to keep our teammates safe um a lot of

00:06:36.880 restrictions a lot of close contacting that prevented us from having from having consistent trainings

00:06:41.740 um and so it just seemed like there was obstacle after obstacle after obstacle and so sophomore year

00:06:49.580 i really felt like i finally understood um where i needed to be i felt like i was developing some

00:06:57.120 consistency i would say that my sophomore year was probably one of my best years um not just from a

00:07:04.480 competitive uh performance standpoint standpoint but we were able to win a ssc championship for the

00:07:10.100 first time in women's history which was really awesome um so it's really great season and so i was

00:07:16.300 motivated and encouraged going into my junior year um which was the 20 21 22 season um really excited

00:07:25.240 had a lot of high goals um i know you and i were training partners so we swam literally every

00:07:30.340 single day together right next to each other um me most of the time was just struggling to keep up with

00:07:36.120 you but you know what i really liked though was our team you know we we wanted to know each other's

00:07:47.080 goals like we knew i knew what your goals were i was invested in your goals just as much as you were

00:07:52.060 invested in mine like i felt like i wanted to know what you were doing and you wanted to know

00:07:56.420 what i was doing and so um i remember halfway through that season we had gone to mid-season

00:08:03.460 our rankings came out um and that's really where we we see where we're ranked going in ncaa's

00:08:08.940 and the whole controversy with thomas i know you've shared this story a lot um of us realizing that

00:08:15.520 this person who's ranked in multiple events by seconds and in the women's category is not in

00:08:21.300 fact the woman is actually a man and so we were kind of relieved because we thought the ncaa would 0.89

00:08:27.560 definitely not allow a man to compete at the women's ncaa meet but in fact they did and so

00:08:34.780 um going into that ncaa meet was there were a lot of questions and we really didn't know what to expect

00:08:41.360 um and and yeah i know you shared the story so i don't want to kind of share it again but i stood

00:08:49.080 on the pool deck and i watched you miss out on your uh your award the award that you earned um was given

00:08:55.980 to a man i watched rika um and her tears i saw the heartbreak on the pool deck but i also was in the

00:09:02.460 locker room and that for me was definitely a a super shocking and humiliating experience because

00:09:11.700 i never thought i would be in a locker room changing um especially in a vulnerable environment

00:09:19.160 as the locker room is um and seeing a man in there so that definitely changed my whole perspective

00:09:24.520 on a locker room but really it it changed my perspective of the ncaa this organization was one

00:09:31.620 that i had trusted up until that moment had our best interests at heart and it was then when i

00:09:37.920 realized that you know maybe we shouldn't trust the ncaa maybe what they're doing isn't right maybe

00:09:44.280 allowing this man to compete at this meet isn't right so there were a lot of questions that were

00:09:49.940 raised um and kind of brought to our attention and so after that meet i watched you courageously stand

00:09:56.880 up um and start speaking out and really sharing your story and and that was like super inspiring for

00:10:01.720 me um i i didn't feel like i necessarily had the platform to share my story um i didn't feel like

00:10:11.140 i don't know i had i guess it hadn't really hit me um but fast forward a year later um something very

00:10:19.880 similar happened to my little sister my ember sister abigail who was 16 years old at the time she swam

00:10:26.540 for my former club team which is a ymca team and and the ymca team shares the locker rooms

00:10:32.020 with its ymca members um and in this locker room i remember i was i had just retired from swimming

00:10:37.860 getting ready to go on a trip to europe and get a call from her and she she's like i can tell she's

00:10:42.880 upset i was like what's wrong and she said i went into practice after uh it went into locker room after

00:10:48.220 practice today and i saw two men in the locker rooms changing and immediately i was taken aback

00:10:55.740 because i had been through an experience just like this except this was with a 22 year old man and a

00:11:04.380 19 year old girl but now it's happening to my little sister who is 16 and these men are 50 60 year old

00:11:12.020 adult men um and so i was furious it is it is it is sick um and i was i was furious with the coach 0.67

00:11:22.800 i was furious um that the ymca was allowing this to happen so i was like you need to go tell your coach

00:11:28.240 you need to tell him what's happening and she was like at this point in tears and she was like i did

00:11:32.620 i did tell him um and and she was dismissed by him he he said that they actually knew that this was

00:11:39.520 happening and there was nothing they could do about it and that if she felt uncomfortable changing in

00:11:44.160 the women's locker room she could go and change in the individual locker rooms and so she did from 1.00

00:11:50.040 that point on change in the individual locker rooms um it's the same story every time it's the same

00:11:56.080 story every time and and you would think that i'm it's like not even shocking anymore that this is

00:12:02.840 the response that these weak coaches or weak i mean leaders in air quotes they have the same response

00:12:10.900 every time which is so disheartening anyways keep going yeah no and you're you're so right it's very

00:12:17.420 similar to what the n sub like that you know they didn't want to take the accountability and the

00:12:21.860 responsibility that they should have um the ymca did the exact same thing they didn't want to take

00:12:27.780 responsibility for this um instead like yon is christian association like they've totally as

00:12:37.480 we've now seen with planet fitness i mean they've totally lost their values their foundation at which

00:12:43.840 they were created upon entirely thrown out of the window you're you're totally right um my my parents

00:12:51.740 my little sister and they went so i'm so bored about this they tried to fight back they were like at least

00:12:56.780 at the very least let these families who are sending their five and six year old up little girls 0.99

00:13:01.920 into practice then go change in a locker room where men are changing at least let them know that this is 0.95

00:13:07.580 happening that way they can make the conscious decision to go and change in the individual locker

00:13:12.640 rooms um and they said that they could they could not do that they could not alert the members that this

00:13:17.800 was happening um that would be discrimination and so my little sister and a teammate decided that since

00:13:23.980 they weren't letting the women in the locker rooms know this was happening they weren't letting the 0.70

00:13:28.180 parents know that they decided to hang up signs in the locker rooms these signs simply said women's 0.99

00:13:33.180 rights keep female locker rooms female and safe sport and they were pulled aside at practice the next 1.00

00:13:38.660 day and told that they found hateful messages hung up in the locker rooms very hateful messages

00:13:43.400 that were discriminatory and disrespectful um and my sister went up to him immediately and was like

00:13:49.560 i just want to let you know i was loudly part of this you know i grew up in a christian home i know

00:13:53.600 what the christian values are and the ymca in their mission statement clearly to say they're to be

00:13:59.100 upholding the christian values and by allowing this they're failing to do that and they're also putting

00:14:04.140 young girls and women in an unsafe environment and this is wrong and so i'm so proud of her for for

00:14:11.260 really doing that um really inspiring but but she was responded to that um she would no longer be able

00:14:17.720 to swing the team anymore and she would uh in fact later on be banned from the ymca facility um and

00:14:25.080 so going through that experience with my little sister was like the pivotal point for me to realize

00:14:30.100 you know this this has shown up now twice in my own family um this isn't going away this is

00:14:37.560 yeah it's fan of the year not even um so i really felt at that point god was calling on me um and calling

00:14:47.340 me really into my purpose um and that is to stand up for not just my little sister but stand up for

00:14:55.120 my future daughters um my liberal cousins um and all the young female athletes out there that's why 1.00

00:15:02.120 um this is not just a sports issue this isn't just a women's spaces issue they know we're seeing it in 1.00

00:15:07.260 women's prisons um sororities uh domestic violence shelters it's really happening everywhere

00:15:12.920 let's just i guess for a very clear a very clear picture here for standing up for herself and for

00:15:25.780 the other girls on the team and putting these signs up in the locker room that merely said you know 0.99

00:15:31.020 women's rights and keep women's spaces for women she was kicked off of her team had to go practice 1.00

00:15:38.300 with another team and then ultimately banned from the ymca with the ymca saying they could do absolutely

00:15:44.540 nothing about it yes i mean that is literally what happened and you know that that just goes to show

00:15:54.620 you know people ask why aren't people speaking up and sharing their stories you know why aren't people

00:16:00.100 saying something well it's because of things like this you know my my little sister got picked off her

00:16:07.220 swing team you know she wasn't allowed to swing for the team anymore um and do her sport just because 1.00

00:16:11.740 she said she wasn't comfortable changing next to a man who was changing and exposing himself to her

00:16:17.700 um so that's really where we are it's absolutely crazy and it needs to be stopped and parents need to

00:16:23.500 take accountability and responsibility and start protecting their children and a lot of them are

00:16:28.040 afraid to unfortunately um and i think just are falling into this um the bullying mindset of

00:16:35.000 the people in leadership that are telling us you know don't speak up or you're gonna be basically

00:16:40.360 reprimanded for it so and you're right a risk and the threats like they're very real and they exist

00:16:47.700 and we both you and me i know have seen them play out in our in our own experiences with people we know

00:16:53.080 close to us who have taken a stance um which you mentioned something when kind of explaining

00:16:59.860 your college experience which i thought about which i think is incredibly telling because during

00:17:06.240 covid of course as you said right like it was miserable being a college athlete being a human

00:17:12.880 during this time but we had to deal with the contact tracing and the mandatory mask and the vaccines and

00:17:20.300 the social distancing which is such a silly concept in the sport of swimming this idea of mask i will never

00:17:27.580 forget um getting out of the water being like force fed your wet itchy scratchy mask you had to put on

00:17:33.980 after a race you're huffing and puffing breathing in you know trying to grasp for oxygen you just race for

00:17:39.640 two minutes or whatever then you're you're sucking in water off your mask i mean it was a miserable

00:17:44.620 experience but one thing that i think is interesting and again telling is that when our trainers and

00:17:54.260 different people came in and told us that we had to get this vaccine the vaccine it's it would it would

00:17:59.260 help us it would save us you know we were supposed to be the leaders i remember specifically conversations

00:18:03.940 that we were involved with with um administrators and authority figures telling us hey you guys are

00:18:11.140 leaders you're supposed to be leading this team and you're letting your team down if you don't get the

00:18:16.400 vaccine but what i thought was so interesting about both you and myself on a team of

00:18:22.320 40 ish girls um there were very few maybe three people three girls and the entire team who didn't

00:18:31.740 get the vaccine uh and look it's not because me personally it's not because i'm anti-vax or anything

00:18:38.380 like that but i'm young i'm healthy i'd already had covid which i thought was the most i mean the best and

00:18:46.040 most effective form of immunity these antibodies that i had and they're telling me i have to get

00:18:51.020 a vaccine which we don't know anything about no way but you and i both said no is what i'm getting

00:18:57.740 at here and i think it's speaking for myself again and i'll let you speak to this but that is really

00:19:05.640 when i learned how to say no to authority figures um and it's the same tactics they use right that same

00:19:12.200 gaslighting telling us we would be hurting someone our our my junior year your sophomore year if we didn't

00:19:18.460 get the vaccine and then our senior year telling us that if we did speak out about this we'd be

00:19:22.680 hurting people i mean it's the same emotional blackmail that we faced both during covid and

00:19:29.400 during this whole debacle of leah thomas um what do you i mean i imagine you have a very similar

00:19:38.160 experience there yeah i i completely agree with you and looking back on it now it kind of makes a lot

00:19:44.000 sense um and it's also really scary for the other people who just kind of were like oh i'm being told

00:19:51.440 i need to do this you know so i must do it it's fearful it's scary to think you know how far people

00:19:58.120 would be willing to go um just because someone is telling them to do something and that this is right

00:20:04.600 um like you said i feel like going through both of those experiences i mean just really all through

00:20:10.980 college i learned how to think for myself um i think my parents did a great job of really instilling

00:20:17.440 that in me um not to just blindly follow um the the people who are telling you what to do um really

00:20:25.160 think about what you're doing think about how it impacts others think about how it impacts your future

00:20:29.880 um and and so i did definitely develop a sense of thinking for myself and not always trusting

00:20:39.300 that the systems in place have your best interests at heart um it's similar with the ncaa um obviously

00:20:47.560 we're now in a lawsuit with them and because they've failed us on multiple accounts and continue to fail

00:20:53.960 us and they refuse to to take accountability and responsibility and so um i'm really encouraged

00:20:59.960 because i really feel like people are finally starting to wake up um they're they're starting to see

00:21:06.120 that other people are speaking out and they're being empowered to share their stories and speak

00:21:10.140 out and so it's super encouraging i think our generation is really awesome and hopefully will

00:21:15.020 help turn really our nation around because we're in a huge mess um this speaks to the greater issues

00:21:21.660 in our society today definitely yeah you mentioned the lawsuit which of course was strategically done in

00:21:29.860 terms of the timing in terms of of you know uh what we're we're suing for why we're suing and you said

00:21:36.800 it best right like the ncaa's most basic duties i mean their most basic duties really their only job

00:21:43.800 is to provide safety and privacy in areas of undressing and equal opportunities for both sexes not just

00:21:51.860 women but for both sexes and they have failed and continue to fail um so i guess you know you kind of

00:21:58.160 touched on it but but what are we really hoping to get out of this lawsuit yeah well obviously uh we'd

00:22:07.460 like to see the leadership at the end so like people like charlie baker who i mentioned has a wife who

00:22:13.560 played college sports and has the daughter who played sports i would really i would really like to see

00:22:19.700 him say no you know what we're doing this policy we have in place um that really is is violating

00:22:27.860 women putting women in their safety in jeopardy um you know this is wrong and we need to turn this 1.00

00:22:34.600 around and but unfortunately i think we're dealing with a lot of weak leadership um i think we're

00:22:38.940 seeing this across the board not just within the ncaa uh the people in the white house are a great

00:22:44.540 example of that the ones who are currently rewriting title nine to make it more trans inclusive which

00:22:49.880 to me really at the end of the day just means anti-woman um that's what i've learned or taken from it

00:22:56.300 um but we have weak leadership at the top and it trickles down to the rest but ultimately we're

00:23:01.700 demanding that the ncaa change its policy and start protecting its female athletes we are asking for

00:23:08.320 much people are acting like the ncaa and and all these people are acting like we're asking for so much

00:23:15.240 um but in fact we're asking we're asking for the bare minimum um and if our leaders are still

00:23:22.480 unwilling to do the right thing um then i suggest they resign from their jobs immediately so that

00:23:27.780 we can put people in leadership um who have the courage to make the right call like bill bach who

00:23:33.720 is actually he was on the podcast actually a few weeks ago this is the he was on the ncaa uh board

00:23:40.120 he was a board member he was an official um who has now stepped down because of these policies and he

00:23:46.520 is actually our attorney and our lawyer who has filed suit with us so he's incredible he's an

00:23:53.060 incredible display of leadership of someone who has tenacity and who has grit and who has a moral

00:24:00.740 compass at that so i could not agree more uh if you are someone who encourages this or even if you are

00:24:08.400 someone who are who stays silent as this is happening understand you're just as complicit as the people who

00:24:14.420 created and enforce these policies and i agree um i think stepping down and resigning um would be

00:24:21.140 necessary and i would argue urgent uh what what's your response when people say and i hear it all the

00:24:27.300 time you know they look at this lawsuit and they see this as an attack on on people who identify as trans

00:24:33.020 yeah well this lawsuit is not any anti anything i believe anti-trans um all of this anti-talk

00:24:44.300 is really just a loose term they throw around to try to um scare people into and really silencing

00:24:50.560 people um but this lawsuit isn't about hurting anyone in fact it's about helping the women you

00:24:56.040 have been hurt right and preventing it from happening in the future and and it's about ensuring fair and

00:25:01.420 equal and safe competition which really at the end of the day is something i believe everyone should

00:25:05.500 want um at the end of the day i believe in fairness and equal opportunity i i see what's at stake you see

00:25:12.680 what's at stake the other girls who have gone through um they're different they're different uh what is

00:25:18.720 they've been impacted by this gender ideology this trans movement um but they see what's at stake um

00:25:24.680 allowing men into women's locker rooms allowing them into our sports um is completely unacceptable um 1.00

00:25:32.020 and i believe i speak for all the girls on the lawsuit when i say we don't want to have to be filing

00:25:38.140 a lawsuit we shouldn't have to be the ones holding the ncaa accountable to the law this shouldn't be

00:25:44.780 our job because our leadership is failing us um and unfortunately they have forced our hand um they're

00:25:53.780 like you said they're failing in our most basic duties and they put the responsibility in the hands

00:25:58.560 of young girls and female athletes to do something about it and here we are you mentioned you know

00:26:06.160 taking this this step out putting your neck out really and and even with the position you're in now

00:26:11.280 working in a university administration um it's it's pretty terrifying uh but on top of the lawsuit

00:26:18.940 what other actions have you been taking across the nation specifically in your home state of illinois

00:26:25.560 um to really ensure that single sex spaces are protected yeah so currently in the state of illinois

00:26:35.320 obviously um it's a very blue state so getting anything really passed um it's going to be very

00:26:42.300 difficult it's going to be a challenge but i still think that it's worth the fight um at the end of

00:26:48.140 the day i don't think this should be a political issue i don't think this is a left or right wing

00:26:53.400 issue um we should be it's a common sense sense issue really um and so we're currently working on

00:27:01.340 getting a bill introduced in the state of illinois that's similar to the women's bill of rights 1.00

00:27:05.840 that really just reaffirms legal protection afforded to women under the federal law and really just

00:27:12.720 defines the word women um and so hopefully this bill will be successful um but again it's it's worth

00:27:20.380 a try i'm working with some legislators there some different groups then uh the illinois freedom

00:27:25.120 caucus has really been kind of spearheading this whole thing and have been really awesome so trying

00:27:30.980 to make some changes in different states not home state um and i know you're working alongside um other

00:27:36.840 groups to do the same in other states which is really awesome but you mentioned this being um

00:27:42.320 interesting because i work or my whole basically career path has been really paved to with the goal of

00:27:50.860 working in college athletics um really working for the ncaa or at least the university um which is

00:27:56.060 super ironic to to now be suing the very organization i had my entire career uh been been hoping for um

00:28:04.540 they say don't bite the hand that feeds you but that's just kind of what i've done but really that

00:28:09.600 hand is feeding us poison in lives so i feel like through all of this through all these experience

00:28:15.080 experiences my life has definitely made a dramatic turn in the last year for sure

00:28:20.140 oh my gosh yeah it's um poison in lives is certainly what they're feeding um but yeah you

00:28:26.440 mentioned the freedom caucuses who are just wonderful the work they're doing and really

00:28:31.040 exposing you mentioned illinois right it's it's unlikely that a bill like the women's bill of

00:28:37.160 rights will get passed in illinois but it's important to set the precedent and to to get these people on

00:28:42.220 record on voting record showing they either stand with women or they don't and that's uh it's never been on

00:28:49.660 the wrong side of history to stand with women um so what you're doing is pivotal you have already

00:28:54.960 had so much impact what's next for you well we're obviously going to keep fighting with this lawsuit it

00:29:02.440 could be you know a long process uh i hope to see some some good progress with it um but it's kind

00:29:09.220 of like a waiting game at this point um i'm graduating in may i'm graduating from grad school which

00:29:15.660 i'm super excited about i'm ready to kind of make that next step and start that next chapter

00:29:20.760 um i'm gonna be joining this fight uh full time and dedicating all of my time to fighting for women

00:29:27.920 and women's sports obviously this is something that i felt that god has really called me to

00:29:33.180 um it's not what i planned on doing um but hopefully it's not something i have to do forever

00:29:40.160 because i don't see this issue being relevant forever i i really truly believe that truth

00:29:46.340 does prevail in the end and so hopefully this is only a short-term job um but yeah i actually had a

00:29:54.240 question for you riley um obviously you have had an amazing and supportive family and and husband

00:30:03.980 louis um has been truly super strong through this whole journey um i remember when you started

00:30:11.520 speaking out i had no doubt you wouldn't be a great leader in this fight because this is exactly

00:30:17.580 how you led our team you're an amazing team captain um you you led our team to a lot of success and you

00:30:25.220 taught me a lot um not just in the pool but outside of the pool and really helped me be the best athlete

00:30:30.700 but also person i could be um so i no doubt when you started speaking out and kind of leading us

00:30:36.920 down this path that we're on now but what if what have been some things that maybe you have struggled

00:30:44.060 with on this journey um that maybe you haven't been able to share about man it is just i don't know if

00:30:51.380 people understand like the emotional toll that this takes this battle takes it's so draining because

00:30:59.600 again we see this as something that is so black and white so basic yet you're fighting with people

00:31:05.740 and you're having to converse with people you're having to go to dc to sit in front of congress to

00:31:11.500 explain that men and women are different and it just blows my mind how people don't understand

00:31:16.360 don't see this the way that i see it again not hateful nothing even opinionated it's just the fact

00:31:21.580 that men and women are different and so it really takes an emotional toll the comments of course on social

00:31:27.360 media uh the time that's spent away from from home and from my family and from you mentioned louie my

00:31:33.600 husband and my dogs and and now my horse i just got a horse um all those things like i want nothing

00:31:40.140 more just like you said i don't want to be doing this who in their right mind would want to be doing

00:31:44.640 this um but it's necessary for people like abigail your younger sister it's necessary for our future 0.68

00:31:52.200 daughters you know that's that's what's at stake here uh you and i we're done competing it's not

00:31:57.680 about you and i anymore we're not suing the ncaa so we can compete again or so that we can get

00:32:02.800 another opportunity no way but it's for that next generation that's who we're fighting for the present

00:32:08.680 female athletes even the women who came before us who fought relentlessly for title nine so we could 0.98

00:32:13.820 have the opportunities that we were so fortunate to have that's what this is about um and it's worth it

00:32:19.540 when you look at it from that lens but man it takes a toll there are days when i just i don't want to

00:32:25.820 get on twitter and argue back and forth with people there are days when i don't want to have to to spend

00:32:32.320 my time saying the same thing the most basic thing till i'm blue in the face over and over and over again

00:32:39.820 but persistence it matters um consistency matters and that's what you and i have both been doing

00:32:46.540 um so and i imagine we will continue doing it uh another thing you and i are doing soon is we're

00:32:52.560 swimming alcatraz which is exciting that means we have to survive like san francisco before we even

00:32:59.240 get to the water um hopefully we don't like step on your like needles but yeah um so look i'm just like

00:33:09.040 you right like a smile on my face a light heart i stay grounded i i know the mission and you hit the

00:33:16.300 nail on the head playing sports it teaches you those things it teaches you how to set goals

00:33:20.280 and work to achieve those goals and that's what you and i are doing so it's worth it it's necessary

00:33:26.800 um and onwards bring it on i love that um i just want to say that you know i i think i speak for a lot

00:33:35.520 of the women out there um that we appreciate you riley um you've been amazing and super encouraging and

00:33:42.080 bold um and you've sacrificed a lot in your own life and so we greatly appreciate it it definitely

00:33:50.540 inspired me uh to speak out and kind of start down this journey as well and so i'm happy to be alongside

00:33:57.900 you happy to be uh alongside fighting with you um and i know a lot of women are going to be encouraged

00:34:04.140 to stand up and do the exact same thing so thank you well and you i just love you and like you said

00:34:10.520 we have been training partners for forever as next to each other in the lanes next to each other

00:34:16.080 for three years you're a year younger than me so my sophomore junior senior year um and you make me a

00:34:22.680 better person so this is super exciting for me it's kind of like this full circle moment where

00:34:26.880 it feels like we're back on a team again um but this fight uh this race seems a lot more drastic

00:34:33.980 and a lot heavy and a lot harder which i never thought i would say there's a race harder than the 200 free

00:34:40.080 but here we are so you're the best i appreciate you more for coming on thanks riley having her on and

00:34:49.960 just talking with her of course we talk often but it floods me with all the memories of of our

00:34:55.280 collegiate career uh all the good memories and the bad ones um but i could not be more grateful for her

00:35:00.320 for coming on thank you guys for tuning in i forgot to mention that caitlin is also an ambassador with

00:35:05.640 the riley gain center meaning she is also getting on college campuses she is speaking um again really

00:35:11.200 being bold uh putting her neck out there uh but thanks for tuning in make sure you like and subscribe

00:35:17.560 and comment anywhere where you get your podcasts make sure you check us out at outkick.com

00:35:22.340 and we will see you again next week thanks guys

00:35:25.400 you

Gaines for Girls with Riley Gaines - March 27, 2024

Taking on the NCAA with Kaitlynn Wheeler

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