Gaines for Girls with Riley Gaines - The Kneel Down Heard Around the World

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00:00:24.700 Hey guys, welcome back to the Gains for Girls podcast.

00:00:27.400 As always, very glad, very grateful that you're here.

00:00:30.960 You know it by now, but you can check out all things Gains for Girls at Outkick.com. 0.99

00:00:34.920 I urge you to do it.

00:00:36.300 That's where you can like, you can subscribe, and I want you to do that.

00:00:40.060 That's so you never miss an episode.

00:00:41.640 You're not going to want to miss today's episode.

00:00:44.180 We were talking to someone who has really garnered national attention for a position she's been

00:00:49.320 thrusted into kind of unwillingly, involuntarily.

00:00:52.500 This is not something she wanted to be doing, but she's done such a phenomenal job with the

00:00:57.640 advancement of the fairness in women's sports movement.

00:01:01.160 Today we're talking to Stephanie Turner.

00:01:03.860 She's the fencer who I'm sure you've seen the viral clip of this incredibly brave young

00:01:09.820 woman who is set to, you know, she's on the mat, and all of a sudden there's a male on it

00:01:15.280 that she realizes she's going to be fencing.

00:01:17.140 But she decided in those brief moments that she actually wasn't going to be fencing him.

00:01:23.920 She decided to take a knee, ultimately sending the message of no, enough is enough.

00:01:29.840 She wasn't going to allow this to happen to her.

00:01:32.600 And since then, we have seen how she has taken steps to make sure this doesn't happen to any

00:01:37.000 girl or woman.

00:01:38.240 Very excited for this conversation.

00:01:39.600 You're not going to want to miss it.

00:01:40.540 Check out this interview here with Stephanie Turner.

00:01:42.360 Well, Stephanie, thank you for joining the Games for Girls podcast.

00:01:47.960 I am so excited for this conversation.

00:01:51.060 It's awesome because on the show we have, I mean, world leaders and of course the legislative

00:01:56.140 world and science, I mean, across the board, but it is my favorite to talk to people like

00:02:02.080 you who have used their voice in this time where, again, it was unexpected.

00:02:07.680 Like you weren't really, I imagine, really prepared for this.

00:02:10.500 But my favorite conversation.

00:02:12.700 So before we get into anything, will you kind of fill us in a little bit about the sport

00:02:17.500 of fencing?

00:02:18.500 Since it's a more niche sport, I think there's a lot of things people don't know.

00:02:22.140 And more specifically, I think your background with the sport.

00:02:25.440 Right.

00:02:25.760 Thanks for having me.

00:02:27.400 Fencing is a niche sport in that a lot of people don't understand it, but it does have

00:02:33.840 thousands of members, thousands of athletes, and we're growing exponentially, really.

00:02:39.100 Yeah.

00:02:40.500 In fencing, we just have three weapons.

00:02:43.840 Oil at Bay Sabre, I haven't fenced oil.

00:02:46.180 I've been fencing since I joined college club team back in 2014, 2013, I think.

00:02:55.020 So before that, I was a gymnast.

00:02:57.560 And I don't know.

00:02:58.740 Fencing has just really been more of, has been a passion project of mine that I invest quite

00:03:05.580 a lot of time in and money, and it's just been very important to me.

00:03:10.800 I go to regional tournaments, national tournaments.

00:03:13.660 I'm not the greatest, but it means a lot to me.

00:03:18.500 Of course.

00:03:19.640 Yeah.

00:03:19.940 Of course, I think a lot of people can resonate with spending time, right?

00:03:24.060 Like any sport, it requires a significant amount of time and the sacrifices that you have to

00:03:27.840 make.

00:03:28.440 But money, that's really important too, because in our sport, swimming, or my sport, these

00:03:34.500 suits that you wear, they cost like 500 bucks and they're good for 10 races.

00:03:37.940 So no one really knows that.

00:03:39.220 So I think the money part of it is, is a really, you know, it helps open people's eyes to the

00:03:44.840 investment that you put in to, to compete and really to succeed in your sport.

00:03:49.800 Right.

00:03:50.660 This, this moment that you had just a few weeks ago has gone like not just national, it's gone

00:03:58.560 global across the world.

00:04:01.300 You've garnered this attention.

00:04:03.760 Can you talk about that?

00:04:05.400 Talk about the, the, uh, events that led up to that, that moment that I'm specifically

00:04:10.160 referring to, because truthfully, I think that visual of you taking this knee, having

00:04:16.560 the, you know, the, the official looking down at you, having the man, the male competitor

00:04:20.900 come over and look down at you.

00:04:22.480 It is one of the most powerful visuals that we've seen in this fight for fairness and women's

00:04:28.440 sports.

00:04:28.780 So can you talk about that?

00:04:29.980 And I think more specifically, maybe when you learned that you would be fencing a male,

00:04:35.400 right?

00:04:36.660 So I'll just start from the day before in fencing.

00:04:39.940 We have a system where we post all of our tournaments and we can see live tournament

00:04:45.300 results and our pools and check-in times.

00:04:48.960 And it's part of my pre-competition routine to just check who's registered and just double

00:04:54.500 check my check-in time.

00:04:55.260 So I don't miss anything.

00:04:56.100 And so I went and I saw on the registration list that Redmond Sullivan was there and I

00:05:03.180 recognized him from a Redux article as being previously on the male team and now fencing

00:05:07.400 in women's categories.

00:05:08.900 So from then I, I was already registered.

00:05:14.100 I was already down in Maryland.

00:05:15.460 I live in Philadelphia.

00:05:16.900 I traveled down to Maryland and I was very disappointed to see that.

00:05:23.940 And I just didn't know what I was going to do.

00:05:26.440 They hadn't released pools yet.

00:05:27.940 So I didn't know whether he would be in my pools.

00:05:30.360 And when you do pools, they recede you after your pool results and you do basically a March

00:05:35.200 Madness style bracket.

00:05:36.260 So there's no way of knowing, um, at least in this tournament that I would be able to fence

00:05:41.000 him.

00:05:41.960 Um, so when that night, when I found out I was freaking out, I was really sad.

00:05:49.040 And, um, I was crying and I called one of my friends from church and we just prayed about

00:05:53.900 it.

00:05:54.300 And we said, I said, like, I'm thinking I might take a knee if I have to fence him.

00:06:01.260 And she said, well, let's pray about it.

00:06:03.320 And if, if God puts you, um, him in your path, then that's what you'll do.

00:06:08.960 And if not, you'll just let this opportunity go.

00:06:11.300 And we'll just take that as a sign that God doesn't want you to do this.

00:06:15.260 So I go to the tournament of kind of two minds.

00:06:19.160 Like one, it's, I'm never going to fence him and I'm just going to have to stay focused

00:06:23.060 and try to do my best or somewhere down the line, I'm going to meet him and I'll have

00:06:29.820 to forfeit and get a black card.

00:06:32.220 And so after warming up for a couple hours, they were running late that day, they released

00:06:38.620 pools and Redmond's name just pops up.

00:06:41.720 And I just knew that that's what I was going to have to do.

00:06:46.220 How do you talk to your coach?

00:06:49.400 Like, had you had that conversation with?

00:06:52.100 It was all a secret.

00:06:53.600 None of my coaches knew.

00:06:54.620 I didn't even tell my family.

00:06:56.080 I showed up there.

00:06:57.820 I had friends coming down from Philadelphia just to watch me.

00:07:01.060 And I didn't even tell them.

00:07:02.220 So I basically, I felt kind of guilty because I thought maybe they would be upset that they

00:07:10.060 drove all the way down just to see me get black carded.

00:07:12.780 But they actually turned out to be very supportive of me.

00:07:16.240 And yeah, it was pretty crazy.

00:07:20.980 Can you talk about what a black card is?

00:07:23.400 What that means in your sport?

00:07:24.440 So there's three different types of cards and fencing is a yellow card, which is a warning

00:07:28.980 or red card, which is a point to your opponent.

00:07:31.900 And any subsequent card that is like a yellow card or red card, it's just going to be another

00:07:35.800 red card.

00:07:36.800 A black card is the most serious.

00:07:38.660 And it means expulsion from the tournament.

00:07:42.140 Your name gets excluded from the results and you get walked out of the venue.

00:07:46.500 And that can happen for all sorts of reasons.

00:07:49.100 But a refusal to offense an opponent is one reason that you can get expelled.

00:07:54.780 And then from there, you, any black card has to be investigated by the USFA and you have

00:08:02.740 to await the results of that investigation.

00:08:05.020 So my results came in and I am on probation for 12 months, so I can still compete.

00:08:10.480 But if I get another black card, it would be serious consequences, apparently.

00:08:16.500 This moment, again, that video that went viral, you see, I, do you call them an official in

00:08:23.140 your sport?

00:08:23.620 You see an official coming?

00:08:24.680 Referees. 0.99

00:08:25.320 You see a referee coming up to you and speaking.

00:08:27.880 What did he say in that moment?

00:08:30.400 He, the first time when I took the knee, he didn't know what, what was happening.

00:08:34.720 It's very loud at fencing tournaments.

00:08:36.060 So when he came over, I told him, um, this is, this person is a man, I'm a woman, and this

00:08:42.460 is a woman's tournament. 0.99

00:08:43.520 And I refused to fence, um, used to fence this individual.

00:08:48.240 And, um, my referee was like, okay.

00:08:52.740 And he went over to a ballot committee and I think he was kind of stunned, um, just to

00:08:57.500 talk and refer to all the other referees and, uh, competition officials.

00:09:02.920 And at that moment, that's when Redman comes up and asks me what's going on.

00:09:07.200 And I say, I'm sorry, I have love and respect for you, but I will not fence you.

00:09:12.120 You're a man.

00:09:12.740 I'm a woman.

00:09:13.360 This is a woman's tournament. 1.00

00:09:15.420 And that's when he says, uh, well, okay, but there's a, I should let you know that there's

00:09:21.980 a member of the board of directors here who supports me.

00:09:25.300 And there's a policy that says I'm a woman and I can compete in this tournament. 1.00

00:09:30.560 You're going to get black carded. 0.94

00:09:31.740 You know that, right? 0.94

00:09:32.920 And I went, I know.

00:09:35.000 Um, yeah.

00:09:36.320 And then there's some time in between where basically every official gets spoken to.

00:09:41.720 And, um, my referee who I've known actually for a very long time, uh, comes up to me and

00:09:46.900 says, you're still refusing to fence.

00:09:49.640 And I said, yep.

00:09:50.640 And that's when he gave me a black card.

00:09:53.920 You explain it so simply, right?

00:09:56.780 That's what I, that truthfully is, is my, in your interviews that you've done, how you

00:10:02.320 explain it is, is so perfect because we have, I'll say people on the other side.

00:10:08.800 Again, I don't really mean that in terms of, of, you know, the political aisle.

00:10:12.300 I mean, like the side of common sense and the people who don't have common sense, the 0.65

00:10:16.640 people on the other side have made this issue out to be a very complex one.

00:10:20.700 And they say, it's hard, you know, there, there's a lot that goes into it.

00:10:23.500 The way you explain it is so perfect.

00:10:26.520 You say, I'm a woman, this is a man, this is a woman's tournament.

00:10:31.200 I'm not going to fence this individual.

00:10:34.260 So since this moment, have you had people reach out to you?

00:10:38.820 Like, like maybe those in those, uh, you know, referee positions, officials, like other

00:10:44.180 fencers, have you had people reach out to you and support and thank you for the stance

00:10:48.880 that you've taken?

00:10:49.520 Yeah, absolutely.

00:10:50.940 I've had, um, most people from my club, lots of, uh, young, the young girls and women from

00:10:55.920 my club have reached out to say that they support me fully and that they were happy that

00:10:59.700 I did this.

00:11:00.360 I've had, um, old teammates from five to 10 plus years ago, reach out and say, thank

00:11:06.200 you.

00:11:07.140 And that they are very proud of me.

00:11:09.420 And I've also had, um, support online.

00:11:12.120 That was great.

00:11:12.960 I've also had family members from abroad and locally contact me and say that they were very

00:11:17.600 proud of me.

00:11:18.060 So it's been quite a lot with regards to like the language.

00:11:22.860 I did plan what I was going to say if, if in that case happened, because I don't want

00:11:27.680 to make this some sort of complex issue about gender politics. 1.00

00:11:31.760 The truth of the matter is that he is a man and I'm a woman.

00:11:35.920 And to be honest, I don't know whether he identifies as a trans woman or non-binary or gender fluid.

00:11:41.460 And that's why it's all the semantics games complicates this issue.

00:11:45.920 So the truth of the matter is that he's a man and this is the woman's going to talk about.

00:11:49.860 It's that simple.

00:11:51.280 I've seen some criticism online.

00:11:53.540 Uh, people maybe who even agree typically with this stance, but they say, look, men, uh, don't

00:11:59.520 on average possess natural genetic advantages over women and fencing. 0.99

00:12:04.020 Can you debunk this?

00:12:06.880 Because again, as someone who, you know, lifelong athlete, I can see the advantages that would

00:12:12.660 make a male advantageous in a sport like fencing.

00:12:15.260 So, so can you speak to this?

00:12:17.300 Right.

00:12:17.460 Um, so fencing is a form of martial arts as a combat sport.

00:12:21.020 So things like distance control, power, speed, they, and reaction time and stamina all make

00:12:30.140 a huge difference in this sport.

00:12:33.500 And when you're fencing somebody who is quite tall, Redmond's quite tall, I would say maybe

00:12:38.320 about six foot and, and I'm quite tall.

00:12:42.460 I would say for a woman, I'm about five, seven, maybe that's tall average.

00:12:46.160 But when you're fencing a man, and I have fenced really tall men, they, it feels like a tank

00:12:53.760 is bearing down on you and it's very scary.

00:12:56.760 And in fencing, we have like two components that really make up, uh, the way we compete.

00:13:03.220 And that's our blade work and our footwork.

00:13:05.640 And with blade work, if you're working with a man, he has a lot more upper body strength,

00:13:11.460 which can mean he can take away the blade from your hand.

00:13:14.840 If he decides to, you know, deflect or, um, just, we call it beating, which is where it's

00:13:21.260 an offensive deflection, um, of the blade.

00:13:24.560 It completely diminishes my ability to do certain actions when I'm fencing a man of superior upper

00:13:32.700 body strength and then lower body strength, you know, being able to propel yourself forward.

00:13:37.200 Uh, that's definitely going to be more advantageous for men.

00:13:41.560 Yeah, absolutely.

00:13:42.780 So I understand, I read in an interview, uh, that you're not someone who has always aligned

00:13:49.160 with conservative views.

00:13:50.780 So can you talk about why really you no longer associate yourself with the democratic party?

00:13:56.600 Right.

00:13:57.720 I should say the, my entire family is blue and that I come from a very blue area.

00:14:04.520 I was born in Washington, DC, and I was raised in Maryland.

00:14:07.380 So very, very, very blue.

00:14:09.480 Um, during the pandemic, it all really started with you and with Leah Thomas.

00:14:15.500 That was a huge moment.

00:14:17.200 I think there were seeds before, um, before this with like, say the caravans, I think the

00:14:21.900 caravans, there were some migrant caravans that were coming out around 2019, late 2019,

00:14:27.160 early 2020, um, that I had some discussions with, with about my family and things weren't

00:14:32.360 driving with reality.

00:14:33.700 And I just kept feeling more and more distant from, you know, friends and family who were

00:14:40.740 proponents of maybe the other narrative.

00:14:43.520 Um, but with this issue, with your issue in particular, it just broke me to hear that

00:14:51.940 there were women who were so afraid to come forward about a man being in their locker room.

00:14:58.840 And it also broke me that I had been following the Leah Thomas story before the NCAA finals because

00:15:07.540 I live in Philadelphia.

00:15:08.820 Right.

00:15:09.300 And so, um, I mean, I was aware that, that he was competing, um, maybe like in early 2021,

00:15:18.280 I think there was an article that was written about it and I sent it over to, um, some friends

00:15:23.220 and they were like, this isn't real.

00:15:26.760 It's from like the daily mail.

00:15:28.600 And I was like, well, I don't have any other articles because nobody else is reporting it.

00:15:32.880 So I don't, I don't understand.

00:15:34.720 And it's either the results screenshots are real or everything is totally fabricated and

00:15:38.980 this person doesn't exist.

00:15:40.100 I don't know what else to say.

00:15:42.580 And then it was the commentary of like, well, nobody actually believes this and it's not

00:15:47.660 really going to happen.

00:15:48.540 And it's all going to blow over.

00:15:51.260 And I was like, I don't know.

00:15:52.840 This is just insane to even have started to begin with.

00:15:55.800 And then to find out, to, to finally be able to see articles written by, you know, uh, groups

00:16:03.900 like Reuters or maybe more liberal leaning publications, they left out major parts that

00:16:11.640 I was particularly interested in the story.

00:16:13.540 Like, was he in the locker rooms?

00:16:15.480 That wasn't in a lot of the initial reports about him.

00:16:20.140 And that made me really upset.

00:16:21.480 Like it was withholding obvious information that people would be interested in, in an attempt

00:16:27.160 to protect this individual rather than women and girls.

00:16:30.420 And that made me very upset.

00:16:32.360 So that was like the first instance of it.

00:16:36.180 And then just knowing that there were politicians who were willing to lie about what a man and

00:16:44.680 what a woman was and what's right and wrong with regard to that issue and punish women 0.98

00:16:51.280 and girls who speak out.

00:16:53.700 It made me wonder what else they could be lying to me about.

00:16:58.280 And then on top of that, they really missed a huge opportunity because this issue really

00:17:03.560 fascinated me.

00:17:05.620 And the only side speaking about it were those who were a little bit more right leaning.

00:17:10.580 So that's where I, you know, I, maybe I came there for a little bit of the discussion

00:17:16.780 on trans politics and then it became discussions of other things and it became an open door

00:17:24.900 at this point.

00:17:28.700 You speak for so many when you say that though.

00:17:31.640 I imagine, you know, you're not the only person who maybe would, would call themselves a lifelong

00:17:37.460 liberal, but they just feel like they've been lied to in your own words, using the word

00:17:43.320 lie.

00:17:43.760 I think that's, again, I think that's a perfect, um, I mean, it's the smugness as well.

00:17:49.940 Like you don't know what you're talking about.

00:17:52.100 You need to be reeducated.

00:17:54.360 Um, you're, you're going to all the wrong sources.

00:17:57.000 Let me give you the sources.

00:17:58.500 And then anything I provide is basically bogus.

00:18:02.760 And, you know, like, Stephanie, are you okay?

00:18:07.300 This is like from Fox news.

00:18:09.040 It's not real or, you know, um, so we're worried about your mental health because you're reading

00:18:15.340 Fox news.

00:18:16.280 And I'm like, okay.

00:18:17.980 So.

00:18:18.920 And you make a good point too, in saying like, if we're willing to lie about what men and

00:18:24.920 women are, like there are no limits at that point. 1.00

00:18:28.140 There is nothing they holistically as a society can't get us to deny or adhere to if we will

00:18:34.680 lie about the most basic of truths.

00:18:36.560 It's probably like one of the first truths that any person ever learns.

00:18:41.020 A baby knows the difference between a man and a woman. 0.99

00:18:44.180 You know, we, we all come to know that there are only two.

00:18:47.080 So to, to lie about the, one of the first truths about humanity is, is so epic that it, and

00:18:58.660 disturbing that I, I, I get chills.

00:19:02.300 So this is on USA fencing's website, a list of do not allow states and preferred states.

00:19:12.360 For those of you who are watching or listening, you guessed it.

00:19:16.440 They're based on how well each state scores on the equality map, which is based on, again,

00:19:22.920 like how progressive each state is based on their LGBTQ laws and abortion laws.

00:19:29.580 Stephanie, why is abortion laws relevant as it pertains to fencing or any sport for that

00:19:37.080 matter?

00:19:37.360 And to very briefly touch on what the do not allow states are, um, they have it listed

00:19:41.780 here as Florida, Indiana, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Oklahoma, South Carolina,

00:19:47.100 South Dakota, Tennessee, and Texas, which I think the funniest thing about this, I believe

00:19:51.260 Florida, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Texas are the top four states that people are flocking

00:19:57.820 to like, like moving to from the states on the preferred list, which include California,

00:20:03.940 Colorado, DC, Hawaii, Illinois, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Nevada,

00:20:09.120 New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, Vermont, and Washington.

00:20:12.680 So why does this matter in fencing or any sport for that matter?

00:20:17.060 Well, it doesn't.

00:20:18.120 These, these states have been selected from my understanding based on a very, very small

00:20:24.480 group within the USFA who want to impose their own personal politics on the sport of fencing.

00:20:32.720 And it frankly impacts fencing's reach, um, to athletes that may be from those sports,

00:20:40.260 from those states who want to compete, but now have to travel very far to these other blue

00:20:46.820 states just to compete.

00:20:49.020 We're, we're not going to end up developing the sport of fencing in those states very well

00:20:53.000 if we say we can't compete in them and country you're, yes, you are. 0.95

00:20:59.280 And, um, it's also quite striking because sometimes they do have cold tournaments in Texas and Florida.

00:21:06.540 That is true.

00:21:08.340 Um, I'm not sure why they sometimes bend the rules, but it's very rare.

00:21:12.820 And, um, but, and we end up usually going to like the same states over and over for our national

00:21:17.220 and regional.

00:21:19.020 Which speaking of Texas, Ken Paxton, the attorney general who has been, he's been on this show

00:21:25.040 before he is someone who has, has really been a champion for this cause, pursuing litigation

00:21:29.960 against the previous administration, the department of education, the NCAA now USA fencing.

00:21:36.380 Uh, he's announced that his office has launched an investigation, uh, into USA fencing for potentially

00:21:42.000 violating state law and even specifically citing you.

00:21:45.120 Um, he said this investigation will uncover if USA fencing engaged in any false, deceptive, uh, and misleading

00:21:51.900 acts and practices.

00:21:53.400 So what is it like to, to pretty immediately

00:21:56.060 see someone jump in

00:21:58.500 and defend you all as women when that just really hasn't been the case,

00:22:02.400 especially prior to January 20th?

00:22:04.740 It's just refreshing really to see this.

00:22:07.920 Um, I think everybody has been scared for years to speak out about this and, um, maybe

00:22:14.820 they thought that it could be resolved quietly, but it really could not, um, for various different

00:22:20.440 reasons.

00:22:20.840 I think this particular investigation is quite possibly why they wanted to avoid having tournaments

00:22:28.380 in states that would push back because if such an incident were to happen, then maybe they would

00:22:35.560 not be allowed to implement such policies, but that's maybe that's speculation, but I think they've

00:22:41.580 been pretty explicit about that on their online website, that they avoid states because of their

00:22:47.900 state laws, which is confusing.

00:22:50.100 And I wonder how that impacts with, you know, funding of the sport and, and their, their claim

00:22:58.820 to being inclusive and wanting to reach as many people as possible, because you're not really

00:23:03.300 being inclusive if you're, you know, exiling half the country.

00:23:08.400 No.

00:23:08.600 And when I've grown to learn that when they use this word inclusion, it really, it really

00:23:13.340 just means exclusion.

00:23:14.280 Um, you mentioned the support that you have felt and seen again on social media.

00:23:20.180 I really hope you have felt that.

00:23:21.800 What about the other side?

00:23:23.240 What about any sort of backlash or negative?

00:23:26.080 Um, have you been on the receiving end of that at all?

00:23:30.060 Um, I say this not to like, uh, not to boast or anything, but it's very rare.

00:23:36.680 I think at this point in time, you came out at a very different time and I'm just so grateful

00:23:41.800 for you that you did, I really was following you very closely.

00:23:45.300 Um, but there's, I think people want to see an end to this.

00:23:49.580 So the vast majority of what I've been receiving has been largely positive.

00:23:53.940 The only backlash I've really seen is from a very niche part of the fencing community where

00:24:01.980 basically it's like Facebook online pages.

00:24:04.940 I don't really go on them.

00:24:05.860 My friend just like my friends sometimes like screenshot what they've seen, but even there

00:24:11.480 it's like 60, 40.

00:24:13.200 Um, I think the Facebook Reddit page, somebody, one of my friends, uh, sent me it.

00:24:19.600 And that one is because it's so controlled.

00:24:22.620 If you create a space online, social space where you can remove people based on speech,

00:24:29.140 then you're going to end up with a liberal echo chamber.

00:24:32.500 So they had some deleted comments on there, of course, but they, their, most of their commentary

00:24:38.200 was like, um, it's bigotry to not want to offend somebody who's a man, or it was too

00:24:47.480 dramatic or she could have just like not signed up for, she could have just like, uh, gone

00:24:52.800 up to about committee and said she didn't want to fence.

00:24:54.740 She didn't have to do it right there in the strip. 0.80

00:24:57.620 And I just want to say to those people, I wasn't really left with much of a choice.

00:25:04.760 I mean, there have been a lot, there has been a lot of attempts to, uh, get this on the table

00:25:09.860 for discussion within the USFA, USA, USFA and USFA board of directors.

00:25:14.640 And it has been shot down repeatedly, um, in both, you know, online spaces and through

00:25:21.360 the back channels.

00:25:22.040 I know that people are trying to get this, um, to be discussed at the very least, and

00:25:26.580 it just gets shot down.

00:25:27.960 So my statement was really just to force the conversation.

00:25:33.320 The black card was meant to be an investigation that would force the question.

00:25:37.480 And it ended up being a viral moment.

00:25:40.080 Yeah.

00:25:40.880 Yeah.

00:25:41.140 Well, so many people are grateful for that viral moment.

00:25:45.140 Uh, we know that courage begets courage.

00:25:47.460 Uh, we've seen now Abby Wilson, a professional disc golfer following really the lead that, 0.99

00:25:53.320 that you took.

00:25:54.520 Uh, she ultimately did a similar action in her sport of disc golf where she gets on the 1.00

00:25:59.560 course, you know, acts like she's going to throw it and she steps off because she was 1.00

00:26:03.620 set to compete against a man by the name of Natalie Ryan.

00:26:07.500 Uh, you're wearing your XXXY shirt.

00:26:10.000 Now this week, you were named the XXXY courage wins award recipient.

00:26:15.580 Um, can you talk about this award and really all that came with it?

00:26:18.880 Because number one, I think you deserve it.

00:26:20.940 And number two, uh, I think it shows the great work that XXXY is doing to, to honor, uh, and

00:26:27.420 really showcase those who are taking courageous actions like yourself.

00:26:31.840 Right.

00:26:32.560 So XXXY, um, wants to help women who decide to come forward about this to try to encourage

00:26:40.140 women to come out rather than, uh, the norm, rather than having to deal with all the backlash 1.00

00:26:45.880 all by themselves.

00:26:47.720 Um, there are quite a lot of women who are witnessing, you know, men and women, men in

00:26:53.560 their sports, and they're trying to save their own sports on their own.

00:26:56.520 And it's hard to come out because you essentially nuke your whole life. 1.00

00:27:01.580 You know, you can't, you can face social ostracism.

00:27:05.500 You can have financial blowback.

00:27:07.660 You could have training disrupted and you could have, you know, officials or referees now not

00:27:14.480 being very favorable toward you for the rest of your life.

00:27:17.720 There's no end to the backlash that you may face, or you could have threats on your life.

00:27:22.900 Like I know in your, in your case, you have had such things happen to you.

00:27:26.520 Um, so, you know, it's not fun being on the receiving end of this.

00:27:33.420 It's not what I wanted to do.

00:27:35.300 And it, it, it helps to have people who acknowledge that, that it takes, you know, some sort of

00:27:41.860 sacrifice to do, to bring attention to an issue.

00:27:45.360 And I appreciate XXXY for their, um, acknowledgement.

00:27:51.380 Absolutely.

00:27:51.860 I believe there was a monetary prize too, if you will.

00:27:55.240 Uh, so again, that's just really all the more reason to shop at the truth fits.com or XXXY

00:28:01.260 athletics.

00:28:01.800 They have these awesome shirts right now too, that say, um, boycott, uh, and emphasis is

00:28:07.860 on the word boy there with those letters being in capital.

00:28:11.380 So really great stuff again, to support athletes like you, like Abby Wilson, like the volleyball

00:28:16.420 girls, uh, in the mountain West conference.

00:28:19.200 But, but last question for you, do you think this is what it's going to take, right?

00:28:24.120 More and more women boycotting or taking a knee, um, like you so bravely did.

00:28:30.440 Um, I think so.

00:28:32.320 I think that's pretty much the next evolution of this.

00:28:35.600 Um, I think it's probably going to take more than just calling in advance and saying that

00:28:40.340 you forfeit, you have to make it visible and show people what's on the line and what it

00:28:47.380 is that you're facing.

00:28:48.120 So I encourage women that if you have a volleyball tournament and there's a man in there, show 0.94

00:28:56.040 up like you're going to play.

00:28:57.120 And then just the whole team taking me and we'll see how far this goes when people start

00:29:02.780 doing, doing that.

00:29:03.880 It's more, not more.

00:29:05.220 No, I could not agree more.

00:29:07.240 I wish truthfully, Stephanie, I had your bravery when I was in the situation that I was.

00:29:14.720 And of course, I believe everything happens for a reason.

00:29:17.140 And I, I believe in that divine intervention that was there and how God has his hand on

00:29:22.080 me and, and how all of this was, you know, for his sovereign purpose.

00:29:25.900 But I wish I had your bravery at the time.

00:29:29.320 Of course I've developed and I have become more confident and secure in myself.

00:29:33.580 And of course, within the argument, um, but to, to be that person for so many to look up

00:29:39.320 to, uh, is beyond commendable.

00:29:42.680 So thank you for everything that you have done for what you will.

00:29:46.220 I imagine continue doing, uh, for, for your teammates, for yourself, but I think more

00:29:51.940 importantly for the next generation, we are so grateful.

00:29:55.180 Thank you.

00:29:55.820 I'm grateful for you too.

00:29:56.700 Thank you guys for tuning in to today's episode.

00:30:00.040 I hope we see advancements out of this investigation.

00:30:03.120 We have seen now launched from Ken Paxton, the attorney general of Texas.

00:30:07.260 Uh, the craziest thing to me about this whole conversation we just had something I didn't

00:30:11.800 realize before doing research for this was again, that on USA's fencing's website, they

00:30:17.340 have a list of do not allow states and preferred states based on an equality map.

00:30:24.460 Why in the world does that matter?

00:30:25.840 And sports and fencing, uh, again, it does not.

00:30:29.640 Thank you guys.

00:30:30.420 Again, check us out at outkick.com.

00:30:32.700 That's where you will find all things gains for girls. 1.00

00:30:34.680 We'll see you guys again next week.

Gaines for Girls with Riley Gaines - April 16, 2025

The Kneel Down Heard Around the World

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