Gaines for Girls with Riley Gaines - April 09, 2025


The Male Invasion on Female Sports Continues...


Episode Stats

Length

35 minutes

Words per Minute

190.61089

Word Count

6,694

Sentence Count

487

Misogynist Sentences

28

Hate Speech Sentences

10


Summary

In this episode, we discuss the growing number of women who have come forward to say, "No, I'm not going to compete in women's sports unless I'm allowed to compete on the basis of my gender." In this episode of the podcast, we talk with Paula Scanlon, a former University of Pennsylvania swimmer who competed on the women's team for four years and won a national title.


Transcript

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00:00:24.980 Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the Gains for Girls podcast.
00:00:28.100 If you're watching today, you see I'm in a hotel room.
00:00:31.680 Story of my life.
00:00:32.900 It has been really back on the road these past few months.
00:00:36.220 Getting on college campuses.
00:00:37.940 This is something I've been doing for about two years now,
00:00:41.280 especially leading up to November 5th prior to the election.
00:00:45.500 It's really just become a passion of mine, a goal of mine,
00:00:48.880 to really mobilize and engage with the youth.
00:00:52.360 I think we're a demographic that's often left out of these
00:00:54.820 important deemed political conversations.
00:00:58.160 And so it's been awesome.
00:00:59.920 I've been to about 80 or so different college campuses so far.
00:01:04.180 Four more this week.
00:01:04.940 We're going to University of Arizona, San Francisco State University.
00:01:09.080 We're returning there.
00:01:10.380 If you can remember, this was the university where, I mean,
00:01:14.400 I was attacked and held for ransom for hours through the middle of the night.
00:01:19.240 All the while, the police, the school, they did nothing to help release me.
00:01:24.000 Really crazy stuff.
00:01:25.060 Crazy story there.
00:01:25.900 Maybe we'll do an episode on that.
00:01:27.680 They've already indicated, the protesters,
00:01:29.720 that they want to recreate the same protest again.
00:01:32.780 But now we have security.
00:01:34.700 We're going to University of Kansas.
00:01:36.040 We're going to University of Maryland this week.
00:01:37.560 So really, really exciting stuff, but felt the need to explain
00:01:41.120 why I'm always in a hotel room.
00:01:44.100 Today's episode, I'm sure you've seen some of the stories that have surfaced
00:01:48.260 surrounding women's sports and the allowance of men into these women's sports
00:01:52.940 over the past few weeks.
00:01:54.620 But I hope you see the light at the end of the tunnel
00:01:57.680 because we have started to finally see women ultimately saying no.
00:02:03.180 Enough is enough.
00:02:04.100 I'm not going to compete.
00:02:05.360 I'm not even going to give you the chance to discriminate against me
00:02:08.780 on the basis of my sex, which is, of course,
00:02:11.500 everything that Title IX was passed to prevent from happening
00:02:14.560 and really why women's sports were created in the first place.
00:02:18.140 We saw it with Stephanie Turner in fencing, which we're going to talk about.
00:02:21.240 We saw it with Abby Wilson in professional disc golf,
00:02:23.700 which we are going to discuss.
00:02:25.360 All exciting things.
00:02:26.460 Today's guest is Paula Scanlon.
00:02:28.220 That's who we're going to be talking about this with.
00:02:30.320 She's been on the podcast before.
00:02:33.320 I'm sure you remember her.
00:02:34.340 I'm sure you see her on social media all the time.
00:02:36.660 She was the swimmer from University of Pennsylvania,
00:02:39.560 meaning she had to share a team, a pool,
00:02:43.720 a locker room every single day for four years
00:02:47.800 with Will Thomas, now known as Leah Thomas, right?
00:02:53.480 The six foot four man who swam three years on the men's team at UPenn
00:02:57.280 before deciding to transition to the women's team
00:03:00.100 where he would then go on to win a national title.
00:03:02.480 But I really think we have a lot to thank him for.
00:03:06.260 He really kickstarted this conversation and allowed a lot of people to have their eyes open.
00:03:11.380 People who maybe call themselves moderates or independents
00:03:14.100 or even people who would label themselves as lifelong liberals.
00:03:17.940 So thank you, Will Thomas.
00:03:19.460 We appreciate you for that aspect, I guess, if you want to word it that way.
00:03:23.680 Anyways, we also saw this week in pool billiards in the,
00:03:30.840 I believe it was the Ultimate Pool Women's Pro Series Championship.
00:03:35.680 We saw two men face off in the women's championship.
00:03:40.520 Crazy stuff.
00:03:41.640 Ten years ago, this would have been a Babylon Bee headline,
00:03:44.580 an SNL skit, a South Park episode, but now it's real life.
00:03:48.280 We are going to talk about all of that and more today with Paula Scanlon.
00:03:51.200 Check out the interview here.
00:03:52.880 Well, Paula, welcome to the Gains for Girls podcast.
00:03:55.840 Super exciting to have you back on the show here.
00:03:59.920 We've seen a lot this past, really these past few weeks,
00:04:03.280 but there seems to be a growing movement now in women's sports
00:04:07.360 where women finally have the courage
00:04:10.120 and I think the willingness to refuse to ignore reality
00:04:16.220 that we haven't seen really this entire time, bar just a few instances.
00:04:19.980 So what that means is we've seen a lot of women who are willing to boycott
00:04:23.580 with, of course, emphasis on the word boy there.
00:04:27.560 The most notable, I think, that's gotten really national attention
00:04:31.100 over these past few weeks is Stephanie Turner.
00:04:33.760 She is a fencer.
00:04:35.280 She was competing at a U.S. Junior Women's Qualifying Event,
00:04:38.780 which is, it's a big deal, right?
00:04:40.800 Like when you're competing for an Olympic level qualifying event,
00:04:44.120 these aren't scrubs anymore.
00:04:45.140 These are the best of the best.
00:04:46.380 It's really the pinnacle of their sport.
00:04:47.680 So she got on the mat, realized she would be fencing a man
00:04:51.640 and decided to take a knee.
00:04:52.760 I think we have a video of it.
00:04:54.560 Let's play it.
00:04:55.900 Here you can see her taking the knee.
00:04:57.740 This is the official.
00:04:58.820 He's walking up to her.
00:05:00.060 In this moment, he is disqualifying her.
00:05:02.180 He gives her a black card,
00:05:03.700 meaning that she's unable to participate in the rest of the tournament.
00:05:06.720 She was expelled.
00:05:07.900 This is, of course, the man that she is talking to.
00:05:11.460 And I thought it was so awesome because it surfaced afterwards what she said to this man.
00:05:16.920 And she explained it so simply and beautifully.
00:05:19.840 She said, I'm a woman.
00:05:21.640 This is a man.
00:05:22.760 This is a woman's tournament.
00:05:24.740 I'm sorry, but I won't compete against this individual.
00:05:27.980 Some have made this issue out to be a complex one.
00:05:30.320 It is really that simple.
00:05:31.840 So I guess my question for you, Paula, is why now?
00:05:35.320 Like, why?
00:05:36.360 Again, this is three years since you and I have had to deal with this.
00:05:40.700 Actually, you longer than that because it was an individual on your team.
00:05:45.500 So why now?
00:05:47.880 I mean, I think that the climate's really changed.
00:05:50.720 I mean, we saw so many people support this issue.
00:05:53.960 And I think what's been most interesting to me about this issue is it's not even left and right.
00:05:58.280 I mean, we've seen people come across the aisle and say that they support us on this issue.
00:06:03.760 I mean, I'm sure you have, you know, plenty of people that don't agree with you politically
00:06:06.980 otherwise have reached out to you.
00:06:08.820 I've had the same happen to me.
00:06:10.300 I mean, even the New York Times itself is admitting that 67% of even Democrats in this poll
00:06:15.640 said they don't support men and women's sports.
00:06:17.920 An interesting thing I like to bring up, I was helping a friend shoot street content the
00:06:21.780 other day in New York City, and he was trying to ask New Yorkers, liberal New Yorkers,
00:06:25.920 name one good thing that Donald Trump has done.
00:06:27.980 Most of the time they say nothing.
00:06:29.460 And then we bring up the women's sports thing.
00:06:31.100 And New Yorkers on the street agree that men do not belong in women's sports and agree
00:06:35.600 with us on this issue, even if they hate Trump, even if they voted for Kamala Harris.
00:06:38.960 I mean, the climate has really changed.
00:06:41.560 And I think what I've seen the most is Stephanie not only did that, but she also went and talked
00:06:46.120 about it on Fox News.
00:06:47.440 I mean, that is something that wasn't really happening before.
00:06:50.720 Athletes were not comfortable doing that in the past.
00:06:53.020 I know even myself and you and other girls who competed in the NCAA championship when
00:06:57.920 we did in that season, they weren't willing to go and do that.
00:07:02.440 They weren't willing to go talk on the news.
00:07:03.980 They weren't willing to be affiliated with people who are viewed on the right.
00:07:07.300 And so I think it really just shows how much this climate has changed and how much having
00:07:10.940 Trump in and the results of the past election and all of that has really changed the climate
00:07:14.920 about this conversation.
00:07:16.960 Agreed.
00:07:17.360 The media says it's an 80-20 issue.
00:07:20.300 I think it's more drastic than that.
00:07:22.060 I would go as far to say probably 90-10, if not even, again, more exaggerated than that.
00:07:27.560 This is just not something that the general public, right?
00:07:30.920 Moms and dads of their own young daughters, it's just not something that I think people
00:07:36.100 are on board with.
00:07:37.500 We've seen several Charlie Kirk events now, too, where you see all these young people.
00:07:42.040 Even today, I think, or this week, he was in South Carolina, which was awesome.
00:07:45.160 It's pouring down rain, and he's got crowds of what feels like thousands there to listen
00:07:49.480 to him.
00:07:50.520 So really exciting stuff, especially among the youth.
00:07:54.400 And yeah, you mentioned, again, three years ago, I think the scariest thing in the world
00:07:59.600 was to be labeled a transphobe.
00:08:01.700 Now that word just doesn't mean anything.
00:08:04.540 Actually, I think it's a badge of honor to be labeled as a transphobe because, again, it
00:08:08.180 means you acknowledge reality.
00:08:09.940 But again, three years ago, not the case.
00:08:11.820 So can you speak to some of the pressures that female athletes face?
00:08:14.820 Because a lot of people who maybe you can call them boomers, right?
00:08:20.240 They're on social media.
00:08:21.500 They comment on my things.
00:08:22.500 Why aren't girls just stepping down?
00:08:24.420 Of course, I believe that's the solution.
00:08:26.220 I believe that's the answer.
00:08:27.460 But that's a lot easier said than done.
00:08:29.120 So what are some of those pressures for female athletes, especially female athletes in the
00:08:33.500 Ivy League at UPenn?
00:08:35.580 What did some of those pressures look like?
00:08:37.140 I mean, we we know firsthand really what they did to us during that season, again, because
00:08:43.540 this conversation wasn't mainstream.
00:08:45.280 There were people to turn to to talk to us about this.
00:08:47.860 And our university told us if we ever spoke out against it, we would be labeled as a transphobe
00:08:53.840 and anyone would be able to look you up on the Internet and see what you've said.
00:08:57.560 And they would never want to hire you.
00:08:59.240 People wouldn't want to be your friend.
00:09:00.360 I mean, they told us it was the next civil rights movement.
00:09:03.420 They said, if you do not want this man on your team or undressing in your locker room,
00:09:07.220 that it is equivalent to not wanting to undress with someone based on their race in the 1960s.
00:09:12.420 I mean, that is what we were told.
00:09:14.960 And they were we were continually reminded that this male athlete was so oppressed and
00:09:20.920 he was going through so much and we had to accommodate him.
00:09:24.460 And that is a message that was sent to us continually.
00:09:27.600 And I think part of the reason why myself, my teammates and other people in the Ivy League
00:09:31.760 felt that and actually listened to those threats, even though they were empty.
00:09:35.660 Look, if someone doesn't want to hire you for your opinion that men not belong in women's
00:09:39.240 sports, that's not a place you want to work to begin with.
00:09:41.860 But we didn't have anyone to really look to to see where this issue was.
00:09:46.380 We didn't have organizations encouraging this.
00:09:49.100 I mean, I think Icons was the group that circulated that video originally, right?
00:09:53.840 That organization came out of the Leah Thomas situation.
00:09:56.280 I mean, we didn't have the support network.
00:09:58.960 We didn't have the infrastructure.
00:10:00.360 We didn't have anyone talking about this.
00:10:01.980 If you look at the 2020 election, was this issue even once mentioned at all?
00:10:06.540 No.
00:10:07.140 And so I think it just shows, again, how why it's so important to have real faces and
00:10:12.540 real people speak out and not just on this issue, but really everything, because it it
00:10:16.480 gives other people the courage to do so.
00:10:18.280 And yes, while I wish there were more female athletes that are doing it, I would say there are
00:10:22.360 a lot.
00:10:22.880 I think I could you and I could sit here and probably for the rest of this podcast actually
00:10:26.380 list off female athletes that have spoken against this.
00:10:29.500 I mean, no one playing in the WNBA or nobody playing in the professional women's soccer
00:10:34.840 league or whatever those leagues are.
00:10:37.460 But I think we could list off probably at least 100 or 200 athletes that have spoken out against
00:10:42.360 this.
00:10:42.600 And we couldn't say that three years ago.
00:10:44.600 No, easily.
00:10:45.500 We could do that now.
00:10:46.300 And it's it's such an interesting point you make about those professional athletes, the
00:10:51.360 likes of Simone Biles and Caitlin Clark and Serena and Venus Williams, who have already
00:10:56.420 been on record, right?
00:10:57.180 The Williams sister, at least Serena.
00:10:58.740 I think it was in 2013 with David Letterman saying, look, men and women's tennis is a totally
00:11:03.080 different sport.
00:11:03.740 She's on record already saying that.
00:11:05.560 But of course, that was before it was considered transphobic to, again, acknowledge biological
00:11:11.140 differences.
00:11:13.700 Women arguably have the most to lose, but also the most to gain from from taking the
00:11:20.380 stance.
00:11:20.660 And we just haven't seen it from those, I think, really, really powerhouse figures in
00:11:25.460 women's sports.
00:11:29.100 Stephanie Turner is not the only athlete.
00:11:31.520 You mentioned her courage and how it's inspiring.
00:11:34.940 Following Stephanie, we had a professional disc golfer, which admittedly, I don't know a lot
00:11:40.540 about disc golf.
00:11:41.320 I didn't either.
00:11:42.780 Learn to now realize there's a lot of money in women's disc golf or maybe just disc golf
00:11:47.900 in general, because there's a woman by the name of Abby Wilson.
00:11:51.980 Actually, this was in Nashville.
00:11:53.640 It's the Music City Open.
00:11:55.620 She's on on the course.
00:11:57.080 She steps up.
00:11:57.960 She acts like she's going to throw it.
00:11:59.320 And she walks off the course because a male is following her, a male by the name of Natalie
00:12:05.140 Ryan, who has already sued to to for his allowance into the women's division.
00:12:11.160 All of the things.
00:12:12.360 You know how it goes.
00:12:14.560 But I learned over the past, I think, 19 tournaments that he's been involved in, he's taken over
00:12:20.620 $40,000 away in prize money from women.
00:12:26.200 So I think all of this to say that courage certainly begets courage.
00:12:31.160 And I think there's strength in numbers.
00:12:32.300 We saw the Division I NCAA women's volleyball teams, five teams, ultimately decide to forfeit.
00:12:39.240 We saw the brave West Virginia girls.
00:12:41.260 I mean, these are middle schoolers who ultimately decided last year in shot put that they weren't
00:12:47.380 going to throw against a guy.
00:12:48.980 So I think it's a growing movement.
00:12:50.880 I hope we see more of it.
00:12:52.480 Um, and again, dubbed as Project Boycott, which I think is, is a good name for it.
00:13:00.600 Um, there's another story I want to mention to you too, that just came up this week.
00:13:05.480 Uh, it has to do with billiards or pool.
00:13:08.880 And admittedly, again, don't know a whole lot about pool.
00:13:12.580 We have our time on and inside of a pool, a swimming pool, but don't know a lot about
00:13:16.540 billiards.
00:13:16.880 Um, but there's this article, it was Redux, I think, who really broke the story.
00:13:21.380 They do a phenomenal job in highlighting a lot of these issues, again, that affect women
00:13:25.780 adversely.
00:13:27.040 Um, but it says breaking two men will face each other for a women's championship title
00:13:31.440 at the ultimate pool women's pro series event, uh, tonight in the UK, Harriet Haynes and
00:13:37.740 Lucy Smith, both trans identified males.
00:13:40.320 So for clarity, both men, they beat all female competitors to take the top spots in the women's
00:13:46.420 final event.
00:13:48.500 Paula, why do we even have women's sports if in the championship are two men?
00:13:55.220 I I'm laughing, not because this is funny because it's not funny, but it's so ridiculous.
00:14:00.400 I tweeted the exact same thing.
00:14:02.220 And so a lot of the, and I'm sure your comment section is probably a million times worse than
00:14:05.860 anything I even saw, but there were people commenting, well, they don't have an athletic
00:14:11.140 advantage, so it doesn't matter.
00:14:12.800 Okay, fine.
00:14:13.520 Then what is the point of having a women's category if women are not going to compete
00:14:16.580 in it?
00:14:17.080 If we're, I don't care if it's chess, I don't care if it's billiards, I don't care if it's
00:14:20.480 dart throwing, you're going to have a women's category.
00:14:23.360 It needs to be for women and that needs to be defined.
00:14:26.060 And I don't understand why this is controversial.
00:14:28.700 And there are people who are saying, again, whatever.
00:14:31.600 And, you know, it was so funny because we didn't even have to watch that situation, the
00:14:36.200 final, because we knew a man was going to win the competition because it was between
00:14:39.380 two men.
00:14:40.000 I mean, the UK has really lost it in a lot of ways.
00:14:44.800 I mean, every story I see out of the UK, I feel like I just feel bad for the people from
00:14:48.040 the country.
00:14:48.420 I understand why, why Louie wanted to marry you and come to America.
00:14:53.380 Um, but it is, it is just, again, right.
00:14:56.540 What is the point of the women's category?
00:14:57.700 If it's not going to be protected, we know what a woman is and should be defined.
00:15:01.140 And I, again, it's like, why?
00:15:07.380 It's such a good point because my understanding where there were 32 competitors, right?
00:15:13.040 Obviously 30 of them were women.
00:15:15.120 These two were men, but you do, I did have tons of people, even people who like typically
00:15:19.660 agree with me, comment and support.
00:15:21.360 They were in my comment section while saying, look, safety is not really an issue here.
00:15:24.920 Strength isn't really an issue here.
00:15:26.240 Why does it matter?
00:15:26.820 I totally agree with you.
00:15:27.840 If you want to have a conversation about creating, you know, making pool or billiards gender
00:15:33.120 neutral, then that's a different discussion.
00:15:35.480 But so long as there is a woman's category, it should be reserved for women.
00:15:40.120 But even despite that fact, right?
00:15:41.680 Despite the fact that people say there's no advantage, then why out of the 32 competitors
00:15:46.040 did both men end up number one and two?
00:15:48.880 I think if we were to have a gender neutral pool, I guess, I guess the sport of pool being
00:15:54.720 gender neutral, I think even so, we would see men on top, women at the bottom.
00:16:00.300 I think, yes, actually, because we've played pool as my family, you know, my immediate family
00:16:06.840 of four with two guys, two girls.
00:16:10.080 One time my mom and I teamed up against my dad and my brother.
00:16:13.100 It was not good.
00:16:14.900 We lost.
00:16:16.080 And my mom, my mom is like an avid tennis player.
00:16:18.620 She's very athletic.
00:16:20.120 Okay.
00:16:20.400 Obviously, I swim in college.
00:16:21.940 I mean, I don't know.
00:16:24.160 There's something to be said.
00:16:25.300 Men are still better.
00:16:26.280 I don't know.
00:16:26.800 I haven't done the studies or seen the research.
00:16:29.100 But I'd like to believe that there's some advantage men have in billiards.
00:16:35.100 I don't know what would account for it.
00:16:37.400 But there definitely is one.
00:16:39.300 I feel like things like even wingspan and how long your reach is, I feel like those things
00:16:43.280 matter in this sport.
00:16:45.340 But I agree with you.
00:16:46.140 It doesn't matter if it's chess, right?
00:16:47.760 And I've had people come after me saying, oh, you don't think that women can compete
00:16:52.520 with men in chess?
00:16:53.320 You must think women are stupid.
00:16:54.620 How misogynistic of you.
00:16:55.720 Again, it has nothing to do with intelligence level.
00:16:58.940 It has nothing to do with brain capacity.
00:17:00.300 It has nothing to do with strategy.
00:17:02.660 It has everything to do with the fact there is women's chess, right?
00:17:06.620 It's really that simple.
00:17:08.320 I think this story took, made the best man win to like a whole new level.
00:17:14.300 And to your point, like you're laughing, right?
00:17:15.840 But like, that's how people respond to it.
00:17:20.900 Because again, I think even five years ago, definitely a decade ago, this was like, like
00:17:27.400 the funny ha ha South Park episode, where you have a big burly man atop the podium, and
00:17:33.020 he's got the gold shiny medal, and he's wearing his little leotard, and he's pushing the woman
00:17:36.600 off, again, that's, that's like now turned into a documentary for, I mean, for our lives
00:17:42.920 and, you know, these stories that we keep seeing.
00:17:45.980 So it's, it's really crazy stuff.
00:17:48.740 I don't know if you saw, I went to OU, Oklahoma this past week, and it was awesome.
00:17:53.600 There was probably 600, 700 students there.
00:17:56.580 They had to turn many students away because it was so well attended.
00:18:00.820 So many people wanted to be there in support.
00:18:03.560 Of course, there's protests outside as it normally goes.
00:18:06.400 But it was amazing because the OU softball team came, which they've won, I think, the
00:18:11.500 past four national championships in women's softball.
00:18:14.240 They're like the real deal.
00:18:15.660 I love, I love their team.
00:18:17.960 I love how they play.
00:18:18.840 I love how the coach leads.
00:18:20.400 I think she's amazing.
00:18:21.500 Her name is Patty Gasso.
00:18:22.540 So, but she received some heat.
00:18:25.680 The coach did.
00:18:26.220 They're in the middle of their season following me being on campus because their team decided
00:18:30.880 to come to the event.
00:18:32.020 I think we have a clip here.
00:18:33.380 Let's, let's play it.
00:18:34.360 Several members of the team attended Riley Gaines' speech earlier this week.
00:18:38.260 She spoke highly of you and then spoke exclusively to the team after that event.
00:18:43.200 Thoughts on her comments and the team's presence at that event?
00:18:46.340 I did not hear a comment, so I can't comment.
00:18:49.100 I'm hoping I didn't hear.
00:18:50.440 But the fact that our team is there, it's their right, whether they want to go or not.
00:18:56.960 So, I support them in whatever they choose.
00:19:01.240 I think she answered beautifully.
00:19:03.520 I think she did too, but I think it's also unfair to put the coach in that position.
00:19:07.820 I mean, it's not like the girls were making any statement.
00:19:11.340 It's not like they're currently boycotting a male athlete on their softball team or on an
00:19:15.300 opposing team.
00:19:16.080 I mean, and the way that it was asked, I think he was trying to make her uncomfortable.
00:19:21.440 He didn't, it wasn't just like a, it's so great Riley came to your campus, which is how
00:19:25.620 it should be presented with you going to their campus.
00:19:29.220 But I, I got a sense that this guy was unhappy with you being there and wanted to try to call
00:19:34.360 her out.
00:19:35.020 And I don't appreciate that.
00:19:36.460 And I think that, uh, she answered that really well.
00:19:39.280 And I saw the photos of you with the softball team and I know OU softball is awesome.
00:19:44.320 I was friends with some softball players in college and they would always talk about that
00:19:47.940 team and how wonderful they were.
00:19:50.080 Um, and so I was really happy to see that they attended your event and I'm grateful to know
00:19:54.640 that they appreciate you fighting for their sports and for them to have an opportunity to
00:19:59.700 continue to win championships playing other women.
00:20:01.880 It is true.
00:20:03.580 Like how he framed the question again, they're in the middle of their season.
00:20:06.900 I think they just lost to Tennessee this week.
00:20:09.340 Um, they had other games.
00:20:10.780 I think they played Ohio state this week.
00:20:12.100 Like they could have asked, the reporter could have asked questions pertaining to the previous
00:20:18.180 games or their games in the future.
00:20:19.720 But instead he decided to, you're right.
00:20:21.820 Like almost try to pickle the coach in this corner, which she was like, look, I support my
00:20:27.600 athletes.
00:20:28.280 And I think it goes without saying sports are the one place, like you go to abandon all
00:20:34.700 of the, the political, cultural chaos, right?
00:20:37.920 Like it's meant to be a very unifying experience.
00:20:41.620 And of course, that's just not the way it's gone over the past few years.
00:20:44.240 I think dealing with BLM, I know you were an athlete during that time, uh, where we had
00:20:49.540 to wear, you know, shirts that, that talked about, I mean, just crazy stuff, which I'm like,
00:20:54.900 why are you wearing?
00:20:55.620 The other day I should post a picture of it.
00:20:57.900 You really should.
00:20:58.740 Because again, people don't realize like, first of all, we're like a women's swim team.
00:21:04.380 What are we doing?
00:21:05.020 Wearing these shirts at a swim meet that were mandatory, really crazy stuff.
00:21:09.240 Of course it's become divisive, but it really shouldn't be.
00:21:12.820 So I agree with you.
00:21:13.680 I was super glad those girls were there.
00:21:15.340 Um, and I appreciate the coach again, just, just being pretty blunt and saying, I support
00:21:20.800 my athletes.
00:21:21.460 I bet you didn't really feel that from your college coach, did you?
00:21:26.420 No, definitely not.
00:21:27.540 I mean, I think that's what you get though.
00:21:28.980 When you're at a school like OU or even, even you at Kentucky, right?
00:21:32.480 You had, you felt like there was support from your athletic director.
00:21:36.140 Um, you felt that there was support for the female athletes.
00:21:38.800 And I think that really was one of the bigger differences that I've noticed.
00:21:42.140 Um, but I, I think people are coming around.
00:21:44.880 I think the tide is turning.
00:21:46.680 I think the fact that again, even these athletes, um, feel comfortable coming to, to your event.
00:21:52.360 Um, I remember I went to the university of Florida last year.
00:21:55.840 I'm not even going to say which team she was on, but an athlete on one of the teams there,
00:21:59.480 uh, was there and she was accidentally wearing her team merch.
00:22:03.480 And she's told me that she got really nervous that someone was going to take a picture of
00:22:06.320 her at my speaking event and cancel her for being there.
00:22:11.120 And again, UF is also a really good school, right?
00:22:13.660 They're playing in the, uh, NCAA March madness final, great sports school.
00:22:18.620 And those athletes feel even at some of these bigger schools that they're not fully supported.
00:22:23.620 So I think it's, you know, that was a year ago.
00:22:25.840 I think things are changing a little bit, but again, OU is such a powerhouse.
00:22:29.100 And so I am grateful to that coach.
00:22:31.080 I can see why they're such a winning team because they actually have a coach that cares about
00:22:35.840 their athletes.
00:22:37.340 Um, you know, I don't think that's talked about enough is how, you know, a good coach
00:22:42.040 can help that can help get results.
00:22:45.240 And it really is about creating a culture on their team that allows that.
00:22:49.440 And I, I clearly, um, see that the OU softball team has that culture and that's why they're
00:22:54.740 so good.
00:22:56.080 Yeah, it's a good point.
00:22:57.040 I think there definitely is a direct correlation between that style of coaching and of course
00:23:02.400 with success, uh, going to UPenn, right.
00:23:07.340 I can't even imagine.
00:23:08.600 I really can't.
00:23:09.480 I mean, any of the Ivy leagues and what you guys faced during all of the Leah, Will Thomas
00:23:14.960 debacle.
00:23:15.820 And again, you felt you faced it much longer than we had to much longer than the public
00:23:21.100 even has.
00:23:21.820 I mean, even realizes, but it's pretty cool because as of, I think a few weeks ago, uh,
00:23:27.940 the Trump administration paused $175 million in federal funding to UPenn over its policies
00:23:34.780 on trans athletes, again, specifically citing concerns about Title IX compliance.
00:23:40.320 So I think my, my question out of this, number one, I didn't realize that the public funded
00:23:45.540 UPenn.
00:23:46.600 This is a private university.
00:23:47.880 Most universities actually.
00:23:50.380 So most college campuses actually state, even public, like obviously state schools have
00:23:55.800 funding, right.
00:23:56.360 But even private institutions do as well.
00:23:58.820 So most Ivy leagues do take a portion of federal funding and the reasoning for it is because
00:24:04.580 of research or they're, you know, they're doing research on, you know, things like stem
00:24:08.900 cells and baby, you know, whatever.
00:24:11.160 Um, and that is how they justify that.
00:24:13.260 But yeah, I think a lot of people probably didn't realize that even private institutions
00:24:17.480 are taking, you know, federal money.
00:24:19.780 No idea, but to me, again, knowing the type of people who graduate to UPenn and who ultimately
00:24:27.760 give back to UPenn, I mean, they must receive billions of dollars in endowments, right?
00:24:33.800 Like it's over $22 billion endowment total.
00:24:37.060 And again, so 175 million.
00:24:39.400 I think that again, Trump did that to make a statement.
00:24:41.780 I'm beyond grateful to him for his leadership on that.
00:24:44.320 But that's a drop in the bucket of the $22 billion endowment.
00:24:49.240 And ironically, the day after the 175 million federal funding pause announcement, I get a
00:24:57.020 phone call from the University of Pennsylvania donation line asking me as an alum to give
00:25:02.880 them a donation.
00:25:03.820 I genuinely wish I was making this up actually the day after.
00:25:08.360 And I received the call and I burst out laughing because I was like, this is not real.
00:25:14.320 I hope you told them like, look, your university, I mean, it changed the trajectory of your life.
00:25:20.980 Like some can argue for worse or for better.
00:25:22.940 And it's, I'm sure you've had like, I know you've had amazing opportunities and, and you've
00:25:26.940 met amazing people and you've gotten to go cool places.
00:25:29.060 And so while yes, there have doors that have been open for you because of UPenn's negligence
00:25:33.600 and mistreatment to you and to women, it's not what you plan for yourself.
00:25:37.580 Well, you can definitely say the same too, Riley, but it's a, I mean, the NCAA, it's
00:25:43.920 really just, it's not even just Penn.
00:25:45.700 Of course, I'm angry at Penn for the way they handled things.
00:25:48.200 I think the biggest thing that they did that made me realize really where they stood on
00:25:53.080 this was nominating Leah Thomas for NCAA woman of the year.
00:25:56.080 Remember when they did that?
00:25:57.620 I think that showed that they doubled down on what they believed in and that they truly
00:26:01.820 supported him being on this woman's team.
00:26:04.120 That showed me Penn's true colors, but I think what we saw in this and what we're continuing
00:26:08.860 to see, and not just on this issue, but really what's going on here is just these institutions,
00:26:13.140 these people that are in positions of power, these people that you trust to watch over
00:26:17.800 your kids or educate you or do the right thing, right?
00:26:21.580 All of these institutions are so problematic.
00:26:24.220 And I think that that's really something that Trump has been targeting in his current presidency.
00:26:29.240 Again, with this decision for Penn for clapping back and doing this women's sports executive
00:26:34.980 order, really forcing the NCAA hand and forcing them to change their policy, which we don't
00:26:39.980 even have to get into what that policy is because of course, flawed and problematic as it always
00:26:44.320 is because the NCAA has sat on their butts for many years, knowing that female athletes
00:26:49.240 are suffering and didn't want to do anything about it.
00:26:51.600 But ultimately, I think that what we're seeing is just changing that and people are opening
00:26:56.340 their eyes and stopping trusting and they don't trust these institutions anymore.
00:27:00.640 And I think that that's something I'm grateful for.
00:27:03.360 And I really do believe the tide is turning.
00:27:05.640 I think we have so much work, something else I've noticed.
00:27:08.280 And, you know, I can ask, you know, you probably have a better insight on this, but the divide
00:27:12.120 now that we're seeing really between these red and blue states.
00:27:15.340 And so now after these executive order is great.
00:27:17.800 You know, girls in states like Florida and Texas have higher chances of having fair sport competitions.
00:27:22.680 But then if you go out to California and the West Coast, they're calling themselves essentially
00:27:27.400 sanctuary states for trans athletes and trying to find loopholes and continuing to allow men
00:27:32.680 to compete against girls, even in the middle school level.
00:27:36.480 And so we still have to fight against that.
00:27:38.960 But I do think that the tide has changed.
00:27:41.600 And I think it's now just more red versus blue, trying to get into these states and really
00:27:45.640 get through to places like California.
00:27:48.340 Agreed.
00:27:48.740 Do you think like amidst all of the wins and the success that we've had following number
00:27:55.380 one, November 5th, winning the election, really this this huge red tidal wave that I think
00:28:00.680 many of us expected in 2022 that but we didn't really get.
00:28:08.320 Do you think amidst all of this, especially the wins following January 20th, do you think
00:28:13.120 conservatives?
00:28:13.740 Are becoming complacent because, again, you can bring up Wisconsin, which I know you've
00:28:20.160 done a ton of work on, working with Early Vote Action, Scott Presser's group, everything
00:28:24.840 that's that's been done, of course, Pennsylvania now targeting New Jersey.
00:28:28.640 You guys were very involved in Wisconsin.
00:28:31.360 But while, again, there there were wins to be had, we won three out of the four, I think,
00:28:36.140 major things, one of those being voter ID, which is is huge.
00:28:40.100 Do you think but we lost the Supreme Court seat?
00:28:43.520 Do you think conservatives are becoming complacent amidst all of the wins?
00:28:48.060 Yeah, it's always something to worry.
00:28:49.780 And I think that that's even what we're dealing with on our issue.
00:28:52.740 Right.
00:28:53.120 You know, I taught obviously so many people in my personal life have called me after,
00:28:58.860 you know, the executive order.
00:29:00.040 They saw us there.
00:29:01.520 They said, OK, great, Paula.
00:29:03.240 It's over now.
00:29:04.160 Right.
00:29:05.080 And then I'm like, oh, yeah, maybe, you know, like this is a great win.
00:29:07.720 And then the next day, it's like there's 15 track meets in the state of California.
00:29:12.100 And there's a boy who's jumping, you know, 10 inches above the girls in the high jump
00:29:16.380 and a boy lapping the girls in the race.
00:29:19.160 It's like, OK, no, it's not over, unfortunately.
00:29:23.740 And I think that's part of the problem is we're seeing all of these wins.
00:29:26.480 People are complacent.
00:29:27.460 People are going to think it's just not going to happen.
00:29:29.420 And so my message really to everyone is to continue to just be aware, to stay vigilant
00:29:34.080 for this, to say, you know, even if the rules say that a boy can't compete, watch out for
00:29:38.700 it because you never know.
00:29:39.920 You can send your daughter off to college and what they're seeing in Ithaca, New York, right?
00:29:45.620 NCAA claims to have changed their policy.
00:29:47.980 And I mean, you can explain this probably better.
00:29:49.820 I don't have maybe as many details as you do, but isn't there a boy rowing on an Ithaca
00:29:53.840 college team?
00:29:55.100 Yeah, well, even that fencer fenced at Wagner College.
00:29:59.120 So, yeah, the NCAA and the list goes on.
00:30:01.980 There are many more examples to cite across lacrosse and field hockey and soccer and even
00:30:07.040 softball.
00:30:07.820 Like, like there are so many other stories to highlight.
00:30:10.240 But yeah, the NCAA have remained total cowards.
00:30:14.960 Of course, I mean, and that's and that's really where we are.
00:30:17.680 So I think part of it is we have to stay.
00:30:20.360 We have to keep it up.
00:30:21.240 Obviously, the midterms are, you know, next year.
00:30:23.620 I mean, we could lose seats and then, you know, there can be room for policies to sort
00:30:28.440 of get passed through that could be harmful to us as, you know, not necessarily in this
00:30:35.140 issue, but other issues and just being, you know, Americans and wanting things that, you
00:30:40.860 know, we want for this country.
00:30:42.840 So it is important to stay up.
00:30:45.000 But I do think, again, this issue and the one thing my takeaway from this entire issue
00:30:49.360 is really just how important it is if you see something to say something.
00:30:53.620 Because how many people have been empowered by other people doing this and we've been
00:30:58.620 able to provide resources and even the boycott project boycott thing that you kind of marketed,
00:31:04.520 right?
00:31:04.860 You were able to give girls T-shirts and make them feel like they were part of something
00:31:09.040 for speaking out and that they weren't alone.
00:31:11.220 And I think that that really is the biggest thing and probably the most valuable thing that
00:31:15.920 we've been able and all of us who have spoken out about this have been able to do.
00:31:19.240 And so, you know, of course, we're still going to deal with this.
00:31:23.460 California will always be California.
00:31:25.460 But I am grateful, again, to getting to know these girls and really help them through this.
00:31:31.260 And again, I think you've probably seen even more girls than I have.
00:31:34.380 And so, you know, you can probably be thankful for that, too.
00:31:38.880 Well, it's a growing number of women are being impacted, but I think a growing number of women
00:31:43.500 are willing to say, no, enough is enough.
00:31:46.420 You mentioned the shirts.
00:31:47.760 You can go to XXXYAthletics.com or TheTruthFits.com and you can look up the boycott shirt there.
00:31:54.640 It's a wonderful way to, again, support those women who have been brave enough to put their
00:31:59.880 name and put their face to something like this.
00:32:03.040 And I say bravery because even still today, it requires bravery, right?
00:32:06.520 Stephanie Turner, the fencer, has talked about some of the hardships that she has faced
00:32:10.560 since taking this stand, including problems with her job, again, losing friends, being,
00:32:17.780 I mean, she admitted that she feels like she just ended her career.
00:32:20.680 Same thing with Abby Wilson.
00:32:21.940 She spoke to the anxiety that she's dealt with for years because of the threats of violence
00:32:26.280 that they have faced for daring to oppose this man.
00:32:29.880 So that's why it's called Brave.
00:32:31.220 You can support those girls by going to TheTruthFits.com and getting your own boycott shirt.
00:32:36.640 So, Paula, thank you for everything that you've been doing.
00:32:40.660 Again, you're doing amazing work now on this issue and way beyond this issue.
00:32:45.300 So just very grateful for you and for being a stronghold in New York where it's very, very
00:32:52.800 much needed.
00:32:54.200 I don't know what's going on here.
00:32:56.660 I don't know.
00:32:57.500 Maybe we're better than California.
00:32:58.900 I really don't know.
00:33:00.880 It's a close one and two.
00:33:02.220 But yeah, no, I truly Riley, though, and I think everyone who's going to be listening
00:33:07.620 to this will know this.
00:33:09.900 This movement really is thanks to you.
00:33:13.300 And, you know, you did, you took something that we all went through, right?
00:33:16.880 And you made it something great by giving, again, this network of supporting people.
00:33:20.840 And if there's one takeaway really to take from all of this is how being courageous can
00:33:26.180 help other people and then you can make good of something that's not so good.
00:33:29.940 And I think that's really what we've done.
00:33:32.980 And I know that we will win on this issue.
00:33:35.400 And I know all 50 states eventually will ban this.
00:33:38.300 And then 20 years from now, we're going to say everybody in the 2020s were crazy.
00:33:43.260 What were we doing?
00:33:44.400 That's wild.
00:33:45.220 Wait, cutting off healthy body parts of children?
00:33:47.660 Insane.
00:33:48.600 Yeah.
00:33:49.220 So thank you, Paula.
00:33:50.360 We look forward to having you on sometime again soon.
00:33:53.240 Thank you, Rylan.
00:33:55.420 Thank you guys for tuning into the Gains for Girls podcast.
00:33:58.240 I agree with Paula.
00:33:59.000 I do believe there's this level of complacency that's been developed, which is almost inevitable
00:34:05.040 when you see all of the wins, when you see all of the success.
00:34:08.200 But the good news is it's finally being exposed.
00:34:10.660 But the bad news is it's really just the tip of the iceberg.
00:34:13.960 So don't become complacent.
00:34:15.460 The Democrats do that really well.
00:34:17.080 They are relentless.
00:34:17.860 They do not allow themselves to be steamrolled.
00:34:19.740 They don't just roll over.
00:34:21.220 I think we could take a page from their playbook.
00:34:22.740 As always, you can check out all things Gains for Girls at Outkick.com.
00:34:28.120 Please like and subscribe.
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00:34:37.540 And we will see you guys again next week.
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