Gaines for Girls with Riley Gaines - The Male Invasion on Female Sports Continues...

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00:00:24.980 Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the Gains for Girls podcast.

00:00:28.100 If you're watching today, you see I'm in a hotel room.

00:00:31.680 Story of my life.

00:00:32.900 It has been really back on the road these past few months.

00:00:36.220 Getting on college campuses.

00:00:37.940 This is something I've been doing for about two years now,

00:00:41.280 especially leading up to November 5th prior to the election.

00:00:45.500 It's really just become a passion of mine, a goal of mine,

00:00:48.880 to really mobilize and engage with the youth.

00:00:52.360 I think we're a demographic that's often left out of these

00:00:54.820 important deemed political conversations.

00:00:58.160 And so it's been awesome.

00:00:59.920 I've been to about 80 or so different college campuses so far.

00:01:04.180 Four more this week.

00:01:04.940 We're going to University of Arizona, San Francisco State University.

00:01:09.080 We're returning there.

00:01:10.380 If you can remember, this was the university where, I mean,

00:01:14.400 I was attacked and held for ransom for hours through the middle of the night.

00:01:19.240 All the while, the police, the school, they did nothing to help release me.

00:01:24.000 Really crazy stuff.

00:01:25.060 Crazy story there.

00:01:25.900 Maybe we'll do an episode on that.

00:01:27.680 They've already indicated, the protesters,

00:01:29.720 that they want to recreate the same protest again.

00:01:32.780 But now we have security.

00:01:34.700 We're going to University of Kansas.

00:01:36.040 We're going to University of Maryland this week.

00:01:37.560 So really, really exciting stuff, but felt the need to explain

00:01:41.120 why I'm always in a hotel room.

00:01:44.100 Today's episode, I'm sure you've seen some of the stories that have surfaced

00:01:48.260 surrounding women's sports and the allowance of men into these women's sports

00:01:52.940 over the past few weeks.

00:01:54.620 But I hope you see the light at the end of the tunnel

00:01:57.680 because we have started to finally see women ultimately saying no.

00:02:03.180 Enough is enough.

00:02:04.100 I'm not going to compete.

00:02:05.360 I'm not even going to give you the chance to discriminate against me

00:02:08.780 on the basis of my sex, which is, of course,

00:02:11.500 everything that Title IX was passed to prevent from happening

00:02:14.560 and really why women's sports were created in the first place. 1.00

00:02:18.140 We saw it with Stephanie Turner in fencing, which we're going to talk about.

00:02:21.240 We saw it with Abby Wilson in professional disc golf,

00:02:23.700 which we are going to discuss.

00:02:25.360 All exciting things.

00:02:26.460 Today's guest is Paula Scanlon.

00:02:28.220 That's who we're going to be talking about this with.

00:02:30.320 She's been on the podcast before.

00:02:33.320 I'm sure you remember her.

00:02:34.340 I'm sure you see her on social media all the time.

00:02:36.660 She was the swimmer from University of Pennsylvania,

00:02:39.560 meaning she had to share a team, a pool,

00:02:43.720 a locker room every single day for four years

00:02:47.800 with Will Thomas, now known as Leah Thomas, right?

00:02:53.480 The six foot four man who swam three years on the men's team at UPenn

00:02:57.280 before deciding to transition to the women's team

00:03:00.100 where he would then go on to win a national title.

00:03:02.480 But I really think we have a lot to thank him for.

00:03:06.260 He really kickstarted this conversation and allowed a lot of people to have their eyes open.

00:03:11.380 People who maybe call themselves moderates or independents

00:03:14.100 or even people who would label themselves as lifelong liberals.

00:03:17.940 So thank you, Will Thomas.

00:03:19.460 We appreciate you for that aspect, I guess, if you want to word it that way.

00:03:23.680 Anyways, we also saw this week in pool billiards in the,

00:03:30.840 I believe it was the Ultimate Pool Women's Pro Series Championship.

00:03:35.680 We saw two men face off in the women's championship.

00:03:40.520 Crazy stuff.

00:03:41.640 Ten years ago, this would have been a Babylon Bee headline,

00:03:44.580 an SNL skit, a South Park episode, but now it's real life.

00:03:48.280 We are going to talk about all of that and more today with Paula Scanlon.

00:03:51.200 Check out the interview here.

00:03:52.880 Well, Paula, welcome to the Gains for Girls podcast.

00:03:55.840 Super exciting to have you back on the show here.

00:03:59.920 We've seen a lot this past, really these past few weeks,

00:04:03.280 but there seems to be a growing movement now in women's sports

00:04:07.360 where women finally have the courage 0.80

00:04:10.120 and I think the willingness to refuse to ignore reality

00:04:16.220 that we haven't seen really this entire time, bar just a few instances.

00:04:19.980 So what that means is we've seen a lot of women who are willing to boycott

00:04:23.580 with, of course, emphasis on the word boy there.

00:04:27.560 The most notable, I think, that's gotten really national attention

00:04:31.100 over these past few weeks is Stephanie Turner.

00:04:33.760 She is a fencer.

00:04:35.280 She was competing at a U.S. Junior Women's Qualifying Event,

00:04:38.780 which is, it's a big deal, right?

00:04:40.800 Like when you're competing for an Olympic level qualifying event,

00:04:44.120 these aren't scrubs anymore.

00:04:45.140 These are the best of the best.

00:04:46.380 It's really the pinnacle of their sport.

00:04:47.680 So she got on the mat, realized she would be fencing a man 0.91

00:04:51.640 and decided to take a knee.

00:04:52.760 I think we have a video of it.

00:04:54.560 Let's play it.

00:04:55.900 Here you can see her taking the knee.

00:04:57.740 This is the official.

00:04:58.820 He's walking up to her.

00:05:00.060 In this moment, he is disqualifying her.

00:05:02.180 He gives her a black card,

00:05:03.700 meaning that she's unable to participate in the rest of the tournament.

00:05:06.720 She was expelled.

00:05:07.900 This is, of course, the man that she is talking to.

00:05:11.460 And I thought it was so awesome because it surfaced afterwards what she said to this man.

00:05:16.920 And she explained it so simply and beautifully.

00:05:19.840 She said, I'm a woman.

00:05:21.640 This is a man.

00:05:22.760 This is a woman's tournament. 1.00

00:05:24.740 I'm sorry, but I won't compete against this individual.

00:05:27.980 Some have made this issue out to be a complex one.

00:05:30.320 It is really that simple.

00:05:31.840 So I guess my question for you, Paula, is why now?

00:05:35.320 Like, why?

00:05:36.360 Again, this is three years since you and I have had to deal with this.

00:05:40.700 Actually, you longer than that because it was an individual on your team.

00:05:45.500 So why now?

00:05:47.880 I mean, I think that the climate's really changed.

00:05:50.720 I mean, we saw so many people support this issue.

00:05:53.960 And I think what's been most interesting to me about this issue is it's not even left and right.

00:05:58.280 I mean, we've seen people come across the aisle and say that they support us on this issue.

00:06:03.760 I mean, I'm sure you have, you know, plenty of people that don't agree with you politically

00:06:06.980 otherwise have reached out to you.

00:06:08.820 I've had the same happen to me.

00:06:10.300 I mean, even the New York Times itself is admitting that 67% of even Democrats in this poll

00:06:15.640 said they don't support men and women's sports.

00:06:17.920 An interesting thing I like to bring up, I was helping a friend shoot street content the

00:06:21.780 other day in New York City, and he was trying to ask New Yorkers, liberal New Yorkers,

00:06:25.920 name one good thing that Donald Trump has done.

00:06:27.980 Most of the time they say nothing.

00:06:29.460 And then we bring up the women's sports thing.

00:06:31.100 And New Yorkers on the street agree that men do not belong in women's sports and agree 1.00

00:06:35.600 with us on this issue, even if they hate Trump, even if they voted for Kamala Harris.

00:06:38.960 I mean, the climate has really changed.

00:06:41.560 And I think what I've seen the most is Stephanie not only did that, but she also went and talked

00:06:46.120 about it on Fox News.

00:06:47.440 I mean, that is something that wasn't really happening before.

00:06:50.720 Athletes were not comfortable doing that in the past.

00:06:53.020 I know even myself and you and other girls who competed in the NCAA championship when

00:06:57.920 we did in that season, they weren't willing to go and do that.

00:07:02.440 They weren't willing to go talk on the news.

00:07:03.980 They weren't willing to be affiliated with people who are viewed on the right.

00:07:07.300 And so I think it really just shows how much this climate has changed and how much having

00:07:10.940 Trump in and the results of the past election and all of that has really changed the climate

00:07:14.920 about this conversation.

00:07:16.960 Agreed.

00:07:17.360 The media says it's an 80-20 issue.

00:07:20.300 I think it's more drastic than that.

00:07:22.060 I would go as far to say probably 90-10, if not even, again, more exaggerated than that.

00:07:27.560 This is just not something that the general public, right?

00:07:30.920 Moms and dads of their own young daughters, it's just not something that I think people

00:07:36.100 are on board with.

00:07:37.500 We've seen several Charlie Kirk events now, too, where you see all these young people.

00:07:42.040 Even today, I think, or this week, he was in South Carolina, which was awesome.

00:07:45.160 It's pouring down rain, and he's got crowds of what feels like thousands there to listen

00:07:49.480 to him.

00:07:50.520 So really exciting stuff, especially among the youth.

00:07:54.400 And yeah, you mentioned, again, three years ago, I think the scariest thing in the world

00:07:59.600 was to be labeled a transphobe.

00:08:01.700 Now that word just doesn't mean anything.

00:08:04.540 Actually, I think it's a badge of honor to be labeled as a transphobe because, again, it

00:08:08.180 means you acknowledge reality.

00:08:09.940 But again, three years ago, not the case.

00:08:11.820 So can you speak to some of the pressures that female athletes face?

00:08:14.820 Because a lot of people who maybe you can call them boomers, right?

00:08:20.240 They're on social media.

00:08:21.500 They comment on my things.

00:08:22.500 Why aren't girls just stepping down? 1.00

00:08:24.420 Of course, I believe that's the solution.

00:08:26.220 I believe that's the answer.

00:08:27.460 But that's a lot easier said than done.

00:08:29.120 So what are some of those pressures for female athletes, especially female athletes in the

00:08:33.500 Ivy League at UPenn?

00:08:35.580 What did some of those pressures look like?

00:08:37.140 I mean, we we know firsthand really what they did to us during that season, again, because

00:08:43.540 this conversation wasn't mainstream.

00:08:45.280 There were people to turn to to talk to us about this.

00:08:47.860 And our university told us if we ever spoke out against it, we would be labeled as a transphobe

00:08:53.840 and anyone would be able to look you up on the Internet and see what you've said.

00:08:57.560 And they would never want to hire you.

00:08:59.240 People wouldn't want to be your friend.

00:09:00.360 I mean, they told us it was the next civil rights movement.

00:09:03.420 They said, if you do not want this man on your team or undressing in your locker room,

00:09:07.220 that it is equivalent to not wanting to undress with someone based on their race in the 1960s.

00:09:12.420 I mean, that is what we were told.

00:09:14.960 And they were we were continually reminded that this male athlete was so oppressed and

00:09:20.920 he was going through so much and we had to accommodate him.

00:09:24.460 And that is a message that was sent to us continually.

00:09:27.600 And I think part of the reason why myself, my teammates and other people in the Ivy League

00:09:31.760 felt that and actually listened to those threats, even though they were empty.

00:09:35.660 Look, if someone doesn't want to hire you for your opinion that men not belong in women's

00:09:39.240 sports, that's not a place you want to work to begin with.

00:09:41.860 But we didn't have anyone to really look to to see where this issue was.

00:09:46.380 We didn't have organizations encouraging this.

00:09:49.100 I mean, I think Icons was the group that circulated that video originally, right?

00:09:53.840 That organization came out of the Leah Thomas situation.

00:09:56.280 I mean, we didn't have the support network.

00:09:58.960 We didn't have the infrastructure.

00:10:00.360 We didn't have anyone talking about this.

00:10:01.980 If you look at the 2020 election, was this issue even once mentioned at all?

00:10:06.540 No.

00:10:07.140 And so I think it just shows, again, how why it's so important to have real faces and

00:10:12.540 real people speak out and not just on this issue, but really everything, because it it

00:10:16.480 gives other people the courage to do so.

00:10:18.280 And yes, while I wish there were more female athletes that are doing it, I would say there are 1.00

00:10:22.360 a lot.

00:10:22.880 I think I could you and I could sit here and probably for the rest of this podcast actually

00:10:26.380 list off female athletes that have spoken against this.

00:10:29.500 I mean, no one playing in the WNBA or nobody playing in the professional women's soccer

00:10:34.840 league or whatever those leagues are.

00:10:37.460 But I think we could list off probably at least 100 or 200 athletes that have spoken out against

00:10:42.360 this.

00:10:42.600 And we couldn't say that three years ago.

00:10:44.600 No, easily.

00:10:45.500 We could do that now.

00:10:46.300 And it's it's such an interesting point you make about those professional athletes, the

00:10:51.360 likes of Simone Biles and Caitlin Clark and Serena and Venus Williams, who have already

00:10:56.420 been on record, right?

00:10:57.180 The Williams sister, at least Serena.

00:10:58.740 I think it was in 2013 with David Letterman saying, look, men and women's tennis is a totally

00:11:03.080 different sport.

00:11:03.740 She's on record already saying that.

00:11:05.560 But of course, that was before it was considered transphobic to, again, acknowledge biological

00:11:11.140 differences.

00:11:13.700 Women arguably have the most to lose, but also the most to gain from from taking the 1.00

00:11:20.380 stance.

00:11:20.660 And we just haven't seen it from those, I think, really, really powerhouse figures in

00:11:25.460 women's sports.

00:11:29.100 Stephanie Turner is not the only athlete.

00:11:31.520 You mentioned her courage and how it's inspiring.

00:11:34.940 Following Stephanie, we had a professional disc golfer, which admittedly, I don't know a lot

00:11:40.540 about disc golf.

00:11:41.320 I didn't either.

00:11:42.780 Learn to now realize there's a lot of money in women's disc golf or maybe just disc golf 1.00

00:11:47.900 in general, because there's a woman by the name of Abby Wilson. 0.99

00:11:51.980 Actually, this was in Nashville.

00:11:53.640 It's the Music City Open.

00:11:55.620 She's on on the course.

00:11:57.080 She steps up.

00:11:57.960 She acts like she's going to throw it. 0.97

00:11:59.320 And she walks off the course because a male is following her, a male by the name of Natalie

00:12:05.140 Ryan, who has already sued to to for his allowance into the women's division.

00:12:11.160 All of the things.

00:12:12.360 You know how it goes.

00:12:14.560 But I learned over the past, I think, 19 tournaments that he's been involved in, he's taken over

00:12:20.620 $40,000 away in prize money from women.

00:12:26.200 So I think all of this to say that courage certainly begets courage.

00:12:31.160 And I think there's strength in numbers.

00:12:32.300 We saw the Division I NCAA women's volleyball teams, five teams, ultimately decide to forfeit.

00:12:39.240 We saw the brave West Virginia girls.

00:12:41.260 I mean, these are middle schoolers who ultimately decided last year in shot put that they weren't

00:12:47.380 going to throw against a guy.

00:12:48.980 So I think it's a growing movement.

00:12:50.880 I hope we see more of it.

00:12:52.480 Um, and again, dubbed as Project Boycott, which I think is, is a good name for it. 1.00

00:13:00.600 Um, there's another story I want to mention to you too, that just came up this week.

00:13:05.480 Uh, it has to do with billiards or pool.

00:13:08.880 And admittedly, again, don't know a whole lot about pool.

00:13:12.580 We have our time on and inside of a pool, a swimming pool, but don't know a lot about

00:13:16.540 billiards.

00:13:16.880 Um, but there's this article, it was Redux, I think, who really broke the story.

00:13:21.380 They do a phenomenal job in highlighting a lot of these issues, again, that affect women

00:13:25.780 adversely.

00:13:27.040 Um, but it says breaking two men will face each other for a women's championship title

00:13:31.440 at the ultimate pool women's pro series event, uh, tonight in the UK, Harriet Haynes and

00:13:37.740 Lucy Smith, both trans identified males.

00:13:40.320 So for clarity, both men, they beat all female competitors to take the top spots in the women's

00:13:46.420 final event.

00:13:48.500 Paula, why do we even have women's sports if in the championship are two men? 0.99

00:13:55.220 I I'm laughing, not because this is funny because it's not funny, but it's so ridiculous. 0.78

00:14:00.400 I tweeted the exact same thing.

00:14:02.220 And so a lot of the, and I'm sure your comment section is probably a million times worse than

00:14:05.860 anything I even saw, but there were people commenting, well, they don't have an athletic

00:14:11.140 advantage, so it doesn't matter.

00:14:12.800 Okay, fine.

00:14:13.520 Then what is the point of having a women's category if women are not going to compete 1.00

00:14:16.580 in it?

00:14:17.080 If we're, I don't care if it's chess, I don't care if it's billiards, I don't care if it's

00:14:20.480 dart throwing, you're going to have a women's category. 1.00

00:14:23.360 It needs to be for women and that needs to be defined. 1.00

00:14:26.060 And I don't understand why this is controversial.

00:14:28.700 And there are people who are saying, again, whatever.

00:14:31.600 And, you know, it was so funny because we didn't even have to watch that situation, the

00:14:36.200 final, because we knew a man was going to win the competition because it was between

00:14:39.380 two men.

00:14:40.000 I mean, the UK has really lost it in a lot of ways.

00:14:44.800 I mean, every story I see out of the UK, I feel like I just feel bad for the people from 0.90

00:14:48.040 the country.

00:14:48.420 I understand why, why Louie wanted to marry you and come to America.

00:14:53.380 Um, but it is, it is just, again, right.

00:14:56.540 What is the point of the women's category? 0.97

00:14:57.700 If it's not going to be protected, we know what a woman is and should be defined.

00:15:01.140 And I, again, it's like, why?

00:15:07.380 It's such a good point because my understanding where there were 32 competitors, right?

00:15:13.040 Obviously 30 of them were women. 1.00

00:15:15.120 These two were men, but you do, I did have tons of people, even people who like typically

00:15:19.660 agree with me, comment and support.

00:15:21.360 They were in my comment section while saying, look, safety is not really an issue here.

00:15:24.920 Strength isn't really an issue here.

00:15:26.240 Why does it matter?

00:15:26.820 I totally agree with you.

00:15:27.840 If you want to have a conversation about creating, you know, making pool or billiards gender

00:15:33.120 neutral, then that's a different discussion.

00:15:35.480 But so long as there is a woman's category, it should be reserved for women. 0.67

00:15:40.120 But even despite that fact, right?

00:15:41.680 Despite the fact that people say there's no advantage, then why out of the 32 competitors

00:15:46.040 did both men end up number one and two?

00:15:48.880 I think if we were to have a gender neutral pool, I guess, I guess the sport of pool being

00:15:54.720 gender neutral, I think even so, we would see men on top, women at the bottom. 0.99

00:16:00.300 I think, yes, actually, because we've played pool as my family, you know, my immediate family

00:16:06.840 of four with two guys, two girls.

00:16:10.080 One time my mom and I teamed up against my dad and my brother.

00:16:13.100 It was not good.

00:16:14.900 We lost.

00:16:16.080 And my mom, my mom is like an avid tennis player. 0.99

00:16:18.620 She's very athletic.

00:16:20.120 Okay.

00:16:20.400 Obviously, I swim in college.

00:16:21.940 I mean, I don't know.

00:16:24.160 There's something to be said.

00:16:25.300 Men are still better. 0.97

00:16:26.280 I don't know.

00:16:26.800 I haven't done the studies or seen the research.

00:16:29.100 But I'd like to believe that there's some advantage men have in billiards.

00:16:35.100 I don't know what would account for it.

00:16:37.400 But there definitely is one.

00:16:39.300 I feel like things like even wingspan and how long your reach is, I feel like those things

00:16:43.280 matter in this sport.

00:16:45.340 But I agree with you.

00:16:46.140 It doesn't matter if it's chess, right?

00:16:47.760 And I've had people come after me saying, oh, you don't think that women can compete 1.00

00:16:52.520 with men in chess? 1.00

00:16:53.320 You must think women are stupid. 1.00

00:16:54.620 How misogynistic of you. 1.00

00:16:55.720 Again, it has nothing to do with intelligence level. 0.82

00:16:58.940 It has nothing to do with brain capacity.

00:17:00.300 It has nothing to do with strategy.

00:17:02.660 It has everything to do with the fact there is women's chess, right?

00:17:06.620 It's really that simple.

00:17:08.320 I think this story took, made the best man win to like a whole new level.

00:17:14.300 And to your point, like you're laughing, right?

00:17:15.840 But like, that's how people respond to it.

00:17:20.900 Because again, I think even five years ago, definitely a decade ago, this was like, like

00:17:27.400 the funny ha ha South Park episode, where you have a big burly man atop the podium, and

00:17:33.020 he's got the gold shiny medal, and he's wearing his little leotard, and he's pushing the woman 1.00

00:17:36.600 off, again, that's, that's like now turned into a documentary for, I mean, for our lives

00:17:42.920 and, you know, these stories that we keep seeing.

00:17:45.980 So it's, it's really crazy stuff.

00:17:48.740 I don't know if you saw, I went to OU, Oklahoma this past week, and it was awesome.

00:17:53.600 There was probably 600, 700 students there.

00:17:56.580 They had to turn many students away because it was so well attended.

00:18:00.820 So many people wanted to be there in support.

00:18:03.560 Of course, there's protests outside as it normally goes.

00:18:06.400 But it was amazing because the OU softball team came, which they've won, I think, the

00:18:11.500 past four national championships in women's softball.

00:18:14.240 They're like the real deal.

00:18:15.660 I love, I love their team.

00:18:17.960 I love how they play.

00:18:18.840 I love how the coach leads.

00:18:20.400 I think she's amazing.

00:18:21.500 Her name is Patty Gasso.

00:18:22.540 So, but she received some heat.

00:18:25.680 The coach did.

00:18:26.220 They're in the middle of their season following me being on campus because their team decided

00:18:30.880 to come to the event.

00:18:32.020 I think we have a clip here.

00:18:33.380 Let's, let's play it.

00:18:34.360 Several members of the team attended Riley Gaines' speech earlier this week.

00:18:38.260 She spoke highly of you and then spoke exclusively to the team after that event.

00:18:43.200 Thoughts on her comments and the team's presence at that event?

00:18:46.340 I did not hear a comment, so I can't comment.

00:18:49.100 I'm hoping I didn't hear.

00:18:50.440 But the fact that our team is there, it's their right, whether they want to go or not.

00:18:56.960 So, I support them in whatever they choose.

00:19:01.240 I think she answered beautifully.

00:19:03.520 I think she did too, but I think it's also unfair to put the coach in that position.

00:19:07.820 I mean, it's not like the girls were making any statement.

00:19:11.340 It's not like they're currently boycotting a male athlete on their softball team or on an

00:19:15.300 opposing team.

00:19:16.080 I mean, and the way that it was asked, I think he was trying to make her uncomfortable.

00:19:21.440 He didn't, it wasn't just like a, it's so great Riley came to your campus, which is how

00:19:25.620 it should be presented with you going to their campus.

00:19:29.220 But I, I got a sense that this guy was unhappy with you being there and wanted to try to call

00:19:34.360 her out. 0.82

00:19:35.020 And I don't appreciate that.

00:19:36.460 And I think that, uh, she answered that really well.

00:19:39.280 And I saw the photos of you with the softball team and I know OU softball is awesome.

00:19:44.320 I was friends with some softball players in college and they would always talk about that

00:19:47.940 team and how wonderful they were.

00:19:50.080 Um, and so I was really happy to see that they attended your event and I'm grateful to know

00:19:54.640 that they appreciate you fighting for their sports and for them to have an opportunity to

00:19:59.700 continue to win championships playing other women.

00:20:01.880 It is true.

00:20:03.580 Like how he framed the question again, they're in the middle of their season.

00:20:06.900 I think they just lost to Tennessee this week.

00:20:09.340 Um, they had other games.

00:20:10.780 I think they played Ohio state this week.

00:20:12.100 Like they could have asked, the reporter could have asked questions pertaining to the previous

00:20:18.180 games or their games in the future.

00:20:19.720 But instead he decided to, you're right.

00:20:21.820 Like almost try to pickle the coach in this corner, which she was like, look, I support my

00:20:27.600 athletes.

00:20:28.280 And I think it goes without saying sports are the one place, like you go to abandon all

00:20:34.700 of the, the political, cultural chaos, right?

00:20:37.920 Like it's meant to be a very unifying experience.

00:20:41.620 And of course, that's just not the way it's gone over the past few years.

00:20:44.240 I think dealing with BLM, I know you were an athlete during that time, uh, where we had

00:20:49.540 to wear, you know, shirts that, that talked about, I mean, just crazy stuff, which I'm like,

00:20:54.900 why are you wearing?

00:20:55.620 The other day I should post a picture of it.

00:20:57.900 You really should.

00:20:58.740 Because again, people don't realize like, first of all, we're like a women's swim team.

00:21:04.380 What are we doing?

00:21:05.020 Wearing these shirts at a swim meet that were mandatory, really crazy stuff.

00:21:09.240 Of course it's become divisive, but it really shouldn't be.

00:21:12.820 So I agree with you.

00:21:13.680 I was super glad those girls were there. 0.80

00:21:15.340 Um, and I appreciate the coach again, just, just being pretty blunt and saying, I support

00:21:20.800 my athletes.

00:21:21.460 I bet you didn't really feel that from your college coach, did you?

00:21:26.420 No, definitely not.

00:21:27.540 I mean, I think that's what you get though.

00:21:28.980 When you're at a school like OU or even, even you at Kentucky, right?

00:21:32.480 You had, you felt like there was support from your athletic director.

00:21:36.140 Um, you felt that there was support for the female athletes.

00:21:38.800 And I think that really was one of the bigger differences that I've noticed.

00:21:42.140 Um, but I, I think people are coming around.

00:21:44.880 I think the tide is turning.

00:21:46.680 I think the fact that again, even these athletes, um, feel comfortable coming to, to your event.

00:21:52.360 Um, I remember I went to the university of Florida last year.

00:21:55.840 I'm not even going to say which team she was on, but an athlete on one of the teams there,

00:21:59.480 uh, was there and she was accidentally wearing her team merch. 0.79

00:22:03.480 And she's told me that she got really nervous that someone was going to take a picture of

00:22:06.320 her at my speaking event and cancel her for being there. 0.83

00:22:11.120 And again, UF is also a really good school, right?

00:22:13.660 They're playing in the, uh, NCAA March madness final, great sports school.

00:22:18.620 And those athletes feel even at some of these bigger schools that they're not fully supported.

00:22:23.620 So I think it's, you know, that was a year ago.

00:22:25.840 I think things are changing a little bit, but again, OU is such a powerhouse.

00:22:29.100 And so I am grateful to that coach.

00:22:31.080 I can see why they're such a winning team because they actually have a coach that cares about

00:22:35.840 their athletes.

00:22:37.340 Um, you know, I don't think that's talked about enough is how, you know, a good coach

00:22:42.040 can help that can help get results.

00:22:45.240 And it really is about creating a culture on their team that allows that.

00:22:49.440 And I, I clearly, um, see that the OU softball team has that culture and that's why they're

00:22:54.740 so good.

00:22:56.080 Yeah, it's a good point.

00:22:57.040 I think there definitely is a direct correlation between that style of coaching and of course

00:23:02.400 with success, uh, going to UPenn, right.

00:23:07.340 I can't even imagine.

00:23:08.600 I really can't.

00:23:09.480 I mean, any of the Ivy leagues and what you guys faced during all of the Leah, Will Thomas

00:23:14.960 debacle.

00:23:15.820 And again, you felt you faced it much longer than we had to much longer than the public

00:23:21.100 even has.

00:23:21.820 I mean, even realizes, but it's pretty cool because as of, I think a few weeks ago, uh,

00:23:27.940 the Trump administration paused $175 million in federal funding to UPenn over its policies

00:23:34.780 on trans athletes, again, specifically citing concerns about Title IX compliance.

00:23:40.320 So I think my, my question out of this, number one, I didn't realize that the public funded

00:23:45.540 UPenn.

00:23:46.600 This is a private university.

00:23:47.880 Most universities actually.

00:23:50.380 So most college campuses actually state, even public, like obviously state schools have

00:23:55.800 funding, right.

00:23:56.360 But even private institutions do as well.

00:23:58.820 So most Ivy leagues do take a portion of federal funding and the reasoning for it is because

00:24:04.580 of research or they're, you know, they're doing research on, you know, things like stem

00:24:08.900 cells and baby, you know, whatever.

00:24:11.160 Um, and that is how they justify that.

00:24:13.260 But yeah, I think a lot of people probably didn't realize that even private institutions

00:24:17.480 are taking, you know, federal money.

00:24:19.780 No idea, but to me, again, knowing the type of people who graduate to UPenn and who ultimately

00:24:27.760 give back to UPenn, I mean, they must receive billions of dollars in endowments, right?

00:24:33.800 Like it's over $22 billion endowment total.

00:24:37.060 And again, so 175 million.

00:24:39.400 I think that again, Trump did that to make a statement.

00:24:41.780 I'm beyond grateful to him for his leadership on that.

00:24:44.320 But that's a drop in the bucket of the $22 billion endowment.

00:24:49.240 And ironically, the day after the 175 million federal funding pause announcement, I get a

00:24:57.020 phone call from the University of Pennsylvania donation line asking me as an alum to give

00:25:02.880 them a donation.

00:25:03.820 I genuinely wish I was making this up actually the day after.

00:25:08.360 And I received the call and I burst out laughing because I was like, this is not real.

00:25:14.320 I hope you told them like, look, your university, I mean, it changed the trajectory of your life.

00:25:20.980 Like some can argue for worse or for better.

00:25:22.940 And it's, I'm sure you've had like, I know you've had amazing opportunities and, and you've

00:25:26.940 met amazing people and you've gotten to go cool places.

00:25:29.060 And so while yes, there have doors that have been open for you because of UPenn's negligence

00:25:33.600 and mistreatment to you and to women, it's not what you plan for yourself.

00:25:37.580 Well, you can definitely say the same too, Riley, but it's a, I mean, the NCAA, it's

00:25:43.920 really just, it's not even just Penn.

00:25:45.700 Of course, I'm angry at Penn for the way they handled things.

00:25:48.200 I think the biggest thing that they did that made me realize really where they stood on

00:25:53.080 this was nominating Leah Thomas for NCAA woman of the year.

00:25:56.080 Remember when they did that?

00:25:57.620 I think that showed that they doubled down on what they believed in and that they truly

00:26:01.820 supported him being on this woman's team.

00:26:04.120 That showed me Penn's true colors, but I think what we saw in this and what we're continuing

00:26:08.860 to see, and not just on this issue, but really what's going on here is just these institutions,

00:26:13.140 these people that are in positions of power, these people that you trust to watch over

00:26:17.800 your kids or educate you or do the right thing, right?

00:26:21.580 All of these institutions are so problematic.

00:26:24.220 And I think that that's really something that Trump has been targeting in his current presidency.

00:26:29.240 Again, with this decision for Penn for clapping back and doing this women's sports executive

00:26:34.980 order, really forcing the NCAA hand and forcing them to change their policy, which we don't

00:26:39.980 even have to get into what that policy is because of course, flawed and problematic as it always

00:26:44.320 is because the NCAA has sat on their butts for many years, knowing that female athletes 1.00

00:26:49.240 are suffering and didn't want to do anything about it.

00:26:51.600 But ultimately, I think that what we're seeing is just changing that and people are opening

00:26:56.340 their eyes and stopping trusting and they don't trust these institutions anymore.

00:27:00.640 And I think that that's something I'm grateful for.

00:27:03.360 And I really do believe the tide is turning.

00:27:05.640 I think we have so much work, something else I've noticed.

00:27:08.280 And, you know, I can ask, you know, you probably have a better insight on this, but the divide

00:27:12.120 now that we're seeing really between these red and blue states.

00:27:15.340 And so now after these executive order is great.

00:27:17.800 You know, girls in states like Florida and Texas have higher chances of having fair sport competitions. 1.00

00:27:22.680 But then if you go out to California and the West Coast, they're calling themselves essentially

00:27:27.400 sanctuary states for trans athletes and trying to find loopholes and continuing to allow men

00:27:32.680 to compete against girls, even in the middle school level.

00:27:36.480 And so we still have to fight against that.

00:27:38.960 But I do think that the tide has changed.

00:27:41.600 And I think it's now just more red versus blue, trying to get into these states and really

00:27:45.640 get through to places like California.

00:27:48.340 Agreed.

00:27:48.740 Do you think like amidst all of the wins and the success that we've had following number

00:27:55.380 one, November 5th, winning the election, really this this huge red tidal wave that I think

00:28:00.680 many of us expected in 2022 that but we didn't really get.

00:28:08.320 Do you think amidst all of this, especially the wins following January 20th, do you think

00:28:13.120 conservatives?

00:28:13.740 Are becoming complacent because, again, you can bring up Wisconsin, which I know you've

00:28:20.160 done a ton of work on, working with Early Vote Action, Scott Presser's group, everything

00:28:24.840 that's that's been done, of course, Pennsylvania now targeting New Jersey.

00:28:28.640 You guys were very involved in Wisconsin.

00:28:31.360 But while, again, there there were wins to be had, we won three out of the four, I think,

00:28:36.140 major things, one of those being voter ID, which is is huge.

00:28:40.100 Do you think but we lost the Supreme Court seat?

00:28:43.520 Do you think conservatives are becoming complacent amidst all of the wins?

00:28:48.060 Yeah, it's always something to worry.

00:28:49.780 And I think that that's even what we're dealing with on our issue.

00:28:52.740 Right.

00:28:53.120 You know, I taught obviously so many people in my personal life have called me after,

00:28:58.860 you know, the executive order.

00:29:00.040 They saw us there.

00:29:01.520 They said, OK, great, Paula.

00:29:03.240 It's over now.

00:29:04.160 Right.

00:29:05.080 And then I'm like, oh, yeah, maybe, you know, like this is a great win.

00:29:07.720 And then the next day, it's like there's 15 track meets in the state of California.

00:29:12.100 And there's a boy who's jumping, you know, 10 inches above the girls in the high jump

00:29:16.380 and a boy lapping the girls in the race.

00:29:19.160 It's like, OK, no, it's not over, unfortunately.

00:29:23.740 And I think that's part of the problem is we're seeing all of these wins.

00:29:26.480 People are complacent.

00:29:27.460 People are going to think it's just not going to happen.

00:29:29.420 And so my message really to everyone is to continue to just be aware, to stay vigilant

00:29:34.080 for this, to say, you know, even if the rules say that a boy can't compete, watch out for

00:29:38.700 it because you never know.

00:29:39.920 You can send your daughter off to college and what they're seeing in Ithaca, New York, right?

00:29:45.620 NCAA claims to have changed their policy.

00:29:47.980 And I mean, you can explain this probably better.

00:29:49.820 I don't have maybe as many details as you do, but isn't there a boy rowing on an Ithaca

00:29:53.840 college team?

00:29:55.100 Yeah, well, even that fencer fenced at Wagner College.

00:29:59.120 So, yeah, the NCAA and the list goes on.

00:30:01.980 There are many more examples to cite across lacrosse and field hockey and soccer and even

00:30:07.040 softball.

00:30:07.820 Like, like there are so many other stories to highlight. 0.99

00:30:10.240 But yeah, the NCAA have remained total cowards. 0.92

00:30:14.960 Of course, I mean, and that's and that's really where we are. 0.91

00:30:17.680 So I think part of it is we have to stay.

00:30:20.360 We have to keep it up.

00:30:21.240 Obviously, the midterms are, you know, next year.

00:30:23.620 I mean, we could lose seats and then, you know, there can be room for policies to sort

00:30:28.440 of get passed through that could be harmful to us as, you know, not necessarily in this

00:30:35.140 issue, but other issues and just being, you know, Americans and wanting things that, you

00:30:40.860 know, we want for this country.

00:30:42.840 So it is important to stay up.

00:30:45.000 But I do think, again, this issue and the one thing my takeaway from this entire issue

00:30:49.360 is really just how important it is if you see something to say something.

00:30:53.620 Because how many people have been empowered by other people doing this and we've been

00:30:58.620 able to provide resources and even the boycott project boycott thing that you kind of marketed,

00:31:04.520 right?

00:31:04.860 You were able to give girls T-shirts and make them feel like they were part of something

00:31:09.040 for speaking out and that they weren't alone.

00:31:11.220 And I think that that really is the biggest thing and probably the most valuable thing that

00:31:15.920 we've been able and all of us who have spoken out about this have been able to do.

00:31:19.240 And so, you know, of course, we're still going to deal with this.

00:31:23.460 California will always be California.

00:31:25.460 But I am grateful, again, to getting to know these girls and really help them through this.

00:31:31.260 And again, I think you've probably seen even more girls than I have.

00:31:34.380 And so, you know, you can probably be thankful for that, too.

00:31:38.880 Well, it's a growing number of women are being impacted, but I think a growing number of women 0.81

00:31:43.500 are willing to say, no, enough is enough.

00:31:46.420 You mentioned the shirts.

00:31:47.760 You can go to XXXYAthletics.com or TheTruthFits.com and you can look up the boycott shirt there.

00:31:54.640 It's a wonderful way to, again, support those women who have been brave enough to put their

00:31:59.880 name and put their face to something like this.

00:32:03.040 And I say bravery because even still today, it requires bravery, right?

00:32:06.520 Stephanie Turner, the fencer, has talked about some of the hardships that she has faced

00:32:10.560 since taking this stand, including problems with her job, again, losing friends, being,

00:32:17.780 I mean, she admitted that she feels like she just ended her career.

00:32:20.680 Same thing with Abby Wilson. 0.99

00:32:21.940 She spoke to the anxiety that she's dealt with for years because of the threats of violence

00:32:26.280 that they have faced for daring to oppose this man.

00:32:29.880 So that's why it's called Brave.

00:32:31.220 You can support those girls by going to TheTruthFits.com and getting your own boycott shirt.

00:32:36.640 So, Paula, thank you for everything that you've been doing.

00:32:40.660 Again, you're doing amazing work now on this issue and way beyond this issue.

00:32:45.300 So just very grateful for you and for being a stronghold in New York where it's very, very

00:32:52.800 much needed.

00:32:54.200 I don't know what's going on here.

00:32:56.660 I don't know.

00:32:57.500 Maybe we're better than California.

00:32:58.900 I really don't know.

00:33:00.880 It's a close one and two.

00:33:02.220 But yeah, no, I truly Riley, though, and I think everyone who's going to be listening

00:33:07.620 to this will know this.

00:33:09.900 This movement really is thanks to you.

00:33:13.300 And, you know, you did, you took something that we all went through, right?

00:33:16.880 And you made it something great by giving, again, this network of supporting people.

00:33:20.840 And if there's one takeaway really to take from all of this is how being courageous can

00:33:26.180 help other people and then you can make good of something that's not so good.

00:33:29.940 And I think that's really what we've done.

00:33:32.980 And I know that we will win on this issue.

00:33:35.400 And I know all 50 states eventually will ban this.

00:33:38.300 And then 20 years from now, we're going to say everybody in the 2020s were crazy.

00:33:43.260 What were we doing?

00:33:44.400 That's wild.

00:33:45.220 Wait, cutting off healthy body parts of children?

00:33:47.660 Insane.

00:33:48.600 Yeah.

00:33:49.220 So thank you, Paula.

00:33:50.360 We look forward to having you on sometime again soon.

00:33:53.240 Thank you, Rylan.

00:33:55.420 Thank you guys for tuning into the Gains for Girls podcast.

00:33:58.240 I agree with Paula.

00:33:59.000 I do believe there's this level of complacency that's been developed, which is almost inevitable

00:34:05.040 when you see all of the wins, when you see all of the success.

00:34:08.200 But the good news is it's finally being exposed.

00:34:10.660 But the bad news is it's really just the tip of the iceberg.

00:34:13.960 So don't become complacent.

00:34:15.460 The Democrats do that really well.

00:34:17.080 They are relentless.

00:34:17.860 They do not allow themselves to be steamrolled.

00:34:19.740 They don't just roll over.

00:34:21.220 I think we could take a page from their playbook.

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00:34:35.500 So again, check that out at Outkick.com.

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Gaines for Girls with Riley Gaines - April 09, 2025

The Male Invasion on Female Sports Continues...

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