Mina Swarn was the first woman to have an NCAA title stolen from her in 2019. In this episode, Mina talks about her journey to becoming the first female athlete to have a national championship stripped away from her, and how she fought back.
00:08:12.020But it was really, really hard to kind of tune that out.
00:08:16.460Because, again, while, of course, it was, there was, again, the national spotlight that was brought to our sport, probably similar to that of track, where swimming is not a sport that garners a lot of, you know, media attention, especially not on the national stage.
00:08:31.800So, dealing with that, dealing with the feelings of just total violation in the locker room, it all amounted to something.
00:08:40.020But to provide just a little context here, you finish, technically you were the fastest female runner, correct?
00:08:58.780Following this, again, in 2019, 2020, it wasn't favorable to take the stand that we have now taken.
00:09:08.620You went online to post about this, to express, again, not hatred, nothing that was any sort of animosity or ill will directed to this male athlete or any particular group, but just to, I mean, just to highlight how the unfairness impacted women.
00:09:51.640I got direct messages with people just threatening me and telling me what a bad person I was.
00:10:02.140So, when this story has recently resurfaced, has the response and the reaction that you have received, has that been different, again, in 2025, in comparison to 2019, 2020?
00:10:17.560The people that's been reaching out to me now has been very supportive, and they just tell me to stay strong and keep fighting, and they're really proud over the females that are actually brave enough to speak up and speak out about something like this.
00:10:49.720First of all, being even myself a college athlete at that time, it's amazing to me because I had no idea this happened.
00:10:56.380Which I think goes to show you, number one, the censorship that existed and how dissenting viewpoints and all of that was totally barred in 2019.
00:11:06.860We've come a long way even in regards to, I guess, the accuracy and the integrity of media and what is being presented and reported on.
00:11:16.540But you were attacked meanwhile, I mean, CeCe, the male athlete, was celebrated and later even sympathized after failing a testosterone test that ultimately, of course, disqualified him from competing in the Olympics that had to be so frustrating to see.
00:11:33.040It was very frustrating to see because I felt like the NCAA was allowing this to happen and while they wanted us to be silent about it, it felt like they let this male athlete walk all over me while they wanted me to applaud him.
00:11:54.820And if I didn't, I was told I was being a horrible person.
00:11:59.880All while CeCe was getting the, I guess, the notion of being brave and the list goes on.
00:12:08.840But I have a clip of CeCe back in 2019, pretty immediately actually following that national championships that you've described where you were the fastest female athlete.
00:12:33.220So it's not, if anything, me competing against cisgender females is a disadvantage because my body is going on, going through so many medical implications.
00:12:43.440Like it's going through biochemistry changes.
00:12:45.660So being on, you know, hormone placement therapy, it gives you, so your muscle depletion, your muscle is deteriorating.
00:12:56.860You lose a lot of strength because, you know, testosterone is where you get your strength, your agility, all of that athletic stuff.
00:13:04.480So I have to work twice as hard to keep that strength.
00:13:07.860And if I slack a day, that's like three days set behind.
00:13:13.820I would argue, maybe not, I mean, certainly not anymore, but one of the most trusted and viewed sports outlets in America, probably across the world.
00:13:26.580Then this male, again, do we have, can we show the photo of, of this male outside of this male?
00:13:34.420For those who are listening and don't get to see the photo, it is very obviously what is a male with a raging eight pack and like biceps, boulder shoulders.
00:13:44.660Um, this male then goes on to say that you all as women actually had the advantage and he was at a disadvantage.
00:13:55.140Does it get any more deluded than that?
00:13:58.300I mean, when you're listening to this, I mean, you, you must just be in total disbelief.
00:14:02.760Like again, majority of not even just Americans, majority of people across the world when they hear that.
00:14:07.820Honestly, when I, when I see that and when I hear it, I just get even more aggravated.
00:14:16.120Like I can't, I can't understand that it actually happened, that it was allowed, that it just went by.
00:14:25.440And like you said, that so many people didn't even know about it, that it actually happened.
00:14:34.720And he talks about, you know, losing strength and having to maintain strength.
00:14:39.500Yes, of course, when you were altering yourself, uh, synthetically, not naturally, uh, as a male, you are going to lose strength, but you are losing strength from what already is a male.
00:14:50.640So he talks about having to maintain again, what he is maintaining is in fact, male strength.
00:14:56.860Uh, you mentioned, of course, you're not from the United States.
00:15:00.700Uh, when you moved to the U.S., were you just shocked by this type of sex-based discrimination that you faced?
00:15:10.920When I moved to America, you know, everything that you hear from this side of the world is like, well, you get to go to America to live the American dream.
00:15:23.840You get to experience, you know, what everybody talks so highly about.
00:15:28.280And then to go over there and experience something like this, that's not at all what I thought would ever be in my cards of being in America.
00:15:42.200No, no, in your piece, again, your op-ed in the Wall Street Journal, uh, the subtitle of it, and you write in there, I was the first college woman to be told her victory was worth less than a man's feelings.
00:15:56.080And I thought this was really, really powerful because, again, it is, that's the mantra, uh, that's the message that's being sent that this man's feelings, this, this single man's identity is worth more than all women's, uh, dignity, uh, all women's privacy in areas of undressing, all women's opportunities.
00:16:15.920In a lot of sports, uh, one man's feelings is worth all girls' safety, especially sports where you're colliding, throwing something at one another.
00:16:24.080Uh, so I thought that was, was really beautifully written, uh, and in there, of course, you, you stated your support for President Trump's executive order, keeping men out of women's sports, uh, but you, you go on to say it doesn't go far enough in rectifying these past injustices.
00:16:39.920Yesterday, the Trump administration freezed, I, I think it was $175 million in federal funding to UPenn after their failure to, to really after their policy that allowed, uh, the male that competed against me and my teammates to participate on the women's team.
00:16:57.860This is a step in the right direction, but we are far from the finish line.
00:17:02.800Uh, this just happened in Oregon yesterday.
00:17:09.920Again, for those who, who couldn't see the clip, uh, this was a male student, uh, who just won gold in the girls, 400 meter varsity race at the Portland Interscholastic League meet in Oregon.
00:17:29.280Ada is what he goes by now, formerly Aiden Gallagher.
00:17:32.820Uh, he said a season record after finishing seven seconds ahead, over seven seconds ahead of his female competitors.
00:17:41.000All that to say, again, we are far from, from eliminating the injustice that women are facing at the hands of these, uh, progressive inclusive, of course, that's in quotes policies.
00:17:53.380So what more would you like to see from the administration?
00:17:56.740And again, to, to, I mean, broader than that across the world.
00:18:02.820You mean from, uh, an NCAA standpoint?
00:18:07.500I think more so from like, from these larger governing bodies or even the Trump administration, uh, right.
00:18:14.620We're, we're seeing some, some moves, but what about things like, uh, removing trophies or honors or records or titles, uh, stolen by these men and returning them to their, to their rightful owners?
00:18:27.500Uh, anything else you can think of that could be done to, again, help in some way.
00:18:33.440Again, justice, it, it moves the pace of a snail oftentimes, but to rectify some of the wrongdoing that women have been on the receiving end of.
00:18:42.240Yeah, that is something, um, that's absolutely something what you mentioned, like giving back the trophies, taking them back from the male athletes because they should have never had them in the first place.
00:18:54.000Um, I also think that they need to be able to figure out a way of actually recognizing what is female and what is male.
00:19:05.940They, they need to, in some ways, be able to separate those because there's a reason why we have two separate categories for male and female athletes.
00:19:19.440Um, they shouldn't be combined because it's not fair.
00:19:22.200It takes away the entire justice of sports.
00:19:28.340I'm sure you're familiar with the gains versus NCAA suit.
00:19:31.840Uh, it's myself and I think 18, maybe 19 other athletes, female athletes who are signed onto this lawsuit.
00:19:38.560Again, all women who have, uh, directly been impacted by the NCAA and their policies to stand up, of course, for ourselves.
00:19:47.200But again, um, it's, it's much bigger than that to stand up for, for women like you, to stand up for girls like my younger sister.
00:19:54.840So what do you hope to see come from this?
00:19:57.500Is this something that you see, uh, being successful?
00:20:00.680And, and again, I guess in the same vein, is there anything that the NCAA could do at this point to make up for what has happened to you?
00:20:09.300The NCAA needs to be able to take accountability, accountability for what they have done.
00:20:15.320They need to, I think that they need to go out and actually apologize for what they have put all those female athletes, athletes through.
00:20:24.120Um, they need to, um, they need to own up to the mistake that they made, putting us through the bullying, the silencing.
00:20:32.960And, you know, the females like you who had to endure the locker room situation, um, the abuse that they forced upon female athletes when they didn't even let people have a chance to say no.
00:21:50.820And you have been a massive inspiration for me to even be able to be brave enough and to do this and to take the steps to actually speak up about my own story.
00:22:16.960Uh, we have another episode coming out on Wednesday, so make sure you're following along for that.
00:22:22.220Um, I just want to remind you one of the things that was written in her Wall Street Journal piece.
00:22:28.040And one of the things we talked about today, just the quote, I was the first college woman to be told her victory was worth less than a man's feelings.