Get Off My Lawn - Gavin McInnes - July 31, 2018


Ep 163 | Lawfare | Get Off My Lawn

Hosted by
Gavin McInnes
Mentioned
Donald Trump Mark Random Ron Coleman Ben Shapiro George W. Bush Gavin McGinnis Faith Goldie Hillary Clinton Ezra Levant Kennedy Probably Ben Shapiro Charles C. Johnson Thurgood Marshall Karen Grimsrudd Tommy Robinson Dinesh D'Souza Sabrina Erdely Steve Bannon Gary Johnson Peter Thiel and 15 more
Ep 162 | Walk Of Shame | Get Off My Lawn Get Off My Lawn Podcast #71 | I Was in the Special Class When I Was 12

Episode Stats


Length

39 minutes

Words per minute

158.7

Word count

6,290

Sentence count

558

Harmful content

Misogyny

8

sentences flagged

Toxicity

84

sentences flagged

Hate speech

16

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode of Lawfaire, host Alex Blumberg is joined by Ron Coleman and Mark Randazza, two of the most well-known left-wing lawyers in the game. They talk about the recent case against The Slants, the Toronto terror attack, and why we should all go to court.

Transcript

Transcripts from "Get Off My Lawn - Gavin McInnes" are sourced from the Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool. Explore them interactively here.
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:41.000 Hello, hello.
00:00:41.000 Check, check, check.
00:00:43.000 Are we recording?
00:00:44.000 Yes, that was the Thompson Twins with their big hit, Las, Las, Las, Yeah, Papa Nana, La's, Las.
00:00:54.000 I hate that song.
00:00:56.000 I hate the Thompson Twins.
00:00:58.000 I hate 80s pop music. 1.00
00:01:01.000 God, it sucked. 0.99
00:01:02.000 Was that cocaine? 0.99
00:01:04.000 Is that why music was so bad?
00:01:06.000 Because people were just, yeah, that's that, let's send it out, man.
00:01:09.000 It's really good.
00:01:11.000 That's a really good song. 0.98
00:01:14.000 And now that we're hungover in the year 2018, we can look back and go, you were high and that sucked. 1.00
00:01:21.000 And you looked ridiculous. 0.99
00:01:23.000 Look at them. 0.99
00:01:24.000 Look at the Thompson twins.
00:01:29.000 Today we have a very special episode.
00:01:32.000 Lawfaire, going to court.
00:01:34.000 Should we sue?
00:01:36.000 I notice there's this litigious culture, and I've always avoided it as a Canadian and a Brit. 1.00
00:01:41.000 We tend not to want to sue people.
00:01:43.000 And I've always said free speech should reign supreme.
00:01:46.000 But the Nazi thing is getting tedious constantly. 0.97
00:01:50.000 White supremacists, white nationalists, blah, blah. 0.96
00:01:53.000 Not just me, the entire right-wing movement. 1.00
00:01:55.000 Donald Trump, Steve Bannon, Tommy Robinson, racist, racist, racist. 0.99
00:01:59.000 If you have a problem with Muslims, then you're racist, even though Islam is not a race. 0.99
00:02:05.000 If you have a problem with immigration, you're racist, even though immigrants are not a race. 0.97
00:02:11.000 If you have a problem with the left, then you're racist.
00:02:14.000 And they're suing us.
00:02:16.000 They're constantly threatening us.
00:02:18.000 We're constantly having to hire lawyers to rebuke claims.
00:02:22.000 And Ezra Levant gets it worse than anyone.
00:02:25.000 And I'm convinced it's Soros-related.
00:02:27.000 But maybe it's time to fight back.
00:02:29.000 Maybe we should engage in law first.
00:02:30.000 So I'm going to talk to two lawyers today.
00:02:32.000 I'm going to talk to Ron Coleman.
00:02:33.000 He was the guy who successfully freed the Slants from their trademark noose, where they were told they couldn't call themselves the Slants because that's racist.
00:02:43.000 They can't trademark that name.
00:02:45.000 And I'm also going to talk to Mark Randaza.
00:02:47.000 He's a controversial, somewhat left-wing lawyer who tends to defend these free speech cases.
00:02:54.000 And you see him on Infowars a lot.
00:02:58.000 Clink and you'll miss her.
00:03:01.000 This is the front page of the post.
00:03:02.000 I usually call the show after the front page of the post, but I'm going to call this one Law Fair because it's a special app dedicated to frivolous cases.
00:03:09.000 And should we or should we not sue?
00:03:11.000 But I thought this was funny.
00:03:13.000 She's supposed to serve weekends. 1.00
00:03:15.000 This is what Dinesh D'Souza had to do.
00:03:16.000 Serve weekends at Rikers.
00:03:18.000 But so she'd sign up and then just sort of not get on the bus.
00:03:22.000 And it worked for a while.
00:03:24.000 Kind of cool, right? 0.75
00:03:25.000 That's an idiocracy.
00:03:26.000 Remember idiocracy? 0.98
00:03:28.000 The way he escapes from prison is there's a lineup to go in the prison and a lineup to go out.
00:03:32.000 And he just skips the lineup to go in and goes to the lineup to go out.
00:03:36.000 And they go, where are your papers?
00:03:37.000 And he goes, what?
00:03:37.000 I just did my jail term.
00:03:38.000 And they went, oh, okay.
00:03:40.000 And they let him out of prison. 0.66
00:03:42.000 We have hit peak idiocracy in America.
00:03:47.000 I also want to talk.
00:03:49.000 This is not related to the show at all, but I need to get this in here.
00:03:51.000 You have to see this video.
00:03:53.000 It's Faith Goldie talking about the terror attack in Toronto.
00:03:59.000 Now, let me just give you the narrative.
00:04:01.000 All right? 0.94
00:04:02.000 Mentally ill man shoots some people. 0.99
00:04:05.000 Oh, that's sad. 0.99
00:04:06.000 Nothing to do with Islam. 0.94
00:04:07.000 That's the narrative.
00:04:08.000 Here's the truth.
00:04:10.000 Jihadist, shot up, Christian location. 0.93
00:04:14.000 Injured 13, managed to kill two beautiful little girls. 0.99
00:04:17.000 All right?
00:04:18.000 And this was the tip of the iceberg.
00:04:20.000 Him and his brother had a complete arsenal, and they weren't just planning to kill people with guns, of which they had dozens and dozens, but they were planning to kill them with chemical warfare.
00:04:30.000 On September 20th, 2017, Durham Regional Police executed a search warrant at Ansari's address, where the shooter's brother had been living, after firefighters noticed a suspicious substance in the basement and alerted police.
00:04:46.000 Police say that they discovered 33 guns and 42 kilograms of what was later identified as the very deadly drug, carfentanol.
00:04:57.000 Now, this is where the story gets really interesting.
00:05:01.000 You see, carfentanol isn't your usual street drug.
00:05:06.000 Carfentanol is 100 times stronger than its lethal cousin, fentanyl, making it 5,000 times stronger than heroin.
00:05:15.000 Developed way back in the 1970s as a tranquilizer for large animals like elephants and bears, the synthetic opioid has been studied as a potential chemical weapon by countries, including the U.S., China, and Israel.
00:05:30.000 Now, according to Alberta's chief medical officer, Dr. Karen Grimsrudd, an amount as small as a grain of sand can kill you.
00:05:39.000 You have to watch Faith's video.
00:05:40.000 It's amazing.
00:05:42.000 And she keeps an interrogative.
00:05:43.000 I'm not. 0.95
00:05:44.000 These guys were terrorists, and they were going to try to kill hundreds and hundreds of Canadians, Christians, infidels in the name of jihad, which is why ISIS took credit for it. 1.00
00:05:57.000 And what's really amazing about all of this is that the Prime Minister of Canada's reaction is to go surfing and to go on dates with gays. 0.99
00:06:06.000 I'm not even kidding.
00:06:09.000 Anyway, is it time to give up on the authorities and take the law into our own hands and engage in law affair?
00:06:16.000 I don't know.
00:06:16.000 Let's talk to some lawmen.
00:06:19.000 Let's start with old Ronnie.
00:06:21.000 Ron, are you there, sir?
00:06:23.000 I am.
00:06:24.000 Mr. Coleman, I'd like to consult you with all matters theistic and legal, and today I have some legal conundrums.
00:06:32.000 I'm dressed for legal.
00:06:32.000 Good.
00:06:34.000 Yeah, you don't have your Yamakon.
00:06:37.000 in case you swerve out of your life. 0.98
00:06:41.000 This Nazi allegation is getting ridiculous. 0.99
00:06:45.000 I get called a white nationalist every second day. 0.99
00:06:48.000 Actually, every day.
00:06:49.000 And I just want to sue them all because it's really damaging.
00:06:54.000 It affects, you know, your whole career.
00:06:56.000 It affects your family, your friends.
00:06:59.000 It's like being called a pedophile.
00:07:02.000 What can one do when they get called a Nazi? 0.97
00:07:07.000 Man up.
00:07:10.000 There's no recourse to the law.
00:07:14.000 Defamation law is essentially dead in this country.
00:07:18.000 There are some Nazi states where there is some remaining vestige of defamation law, but in those being called the Nazi would not be actionable. 0.98
00:07:31.000 Well, the allegation has got to the point where it means jerk. 0.96
00:07:37.000 It means person I disagree with. 0.94
00:07:39.000 So therefore, it's become non-defamatory.
00:07:43.000 it's just a rhetoric and that the courts especially in in new york and in the you know the non predominantly non-nazi uh areas where i practice um uh they they look at the context and they say if you're you know i mean let If it's on Twitter, it ain't defamation.
00:08:04.000 Because on Twitter, everyone's either a Nazi or an a-haul who calls people Nazis. 0.50
00:08:12.000 There's really not a lot of in-between.
00:08:14.000 Yeah, but if someone accuses, if someone wants to sue you for a tweet, for example, getting a lawyer to rebuke their allegation, you're looking at about four grand, five grand.
00:08:27.000 So if they want you to pay them five grand, it's about the same either way, whether you defend yourself or pay them off.
00:08:38.000 That's you're saying to defend a lawsuit, to defend against a lawsuit that was brought against you for a tweet.
00:08:45.000 Yes, is inevitably going to cost you three, four, five bills. 0.99
00:08:50.000 So why not just pay off the jerk who sued you? 0.99
00:08:56.000 Well, first of all, because guys like me don't make a living that way. 0.99
00:09:01.000 Actually, no, the plaintiff's lawyers do, because probably most of those guys are working on some kind of contingency.
00:09:05.000 They'll get a cut.
00:09:06.000 Yeah, it's got to the point now where defamation is rare.
00:09:10.000 But with most of this legal jargon, when it comes down to defending yourself and libel and everything, it's just become cheaper to settle.
00:09:18.000 I guess my big picture point here is that the law has left us behind.
00:09:23.000 I don't know if that's good or bad.
00:09:28.000 I think the more interesting question is which came first, the chicken or the egg.
00:09:32.000 Did the law leave us behind because it became, we're in an environment now where words are so meaningless and therefore it became so impossible to attach legal, you know, legal significance to rhetoric?
00:09:53.000 Or is it the fact that because the law of defamation became so weak over the last generation, that that's why words have become so weak?
00:10:06.000 I can't answer that question.
00:10:07.000 Probably Ben Shapiroker.
00:10:10.000 Really?
00:10:11.000 No, he's really smart.
00:10:13.000 But is he smart at law stuff?
00:10:15.000 Oh, yeah.
00:10:16.000 I mean, he doesn't do it every day as I do, but I didn't get into Harvard Law School, and he did.
00:10:20.000 Maybe I will call him right after this.
00:10:20.000 Hmm.
00:10:23.000 I'm sure he'll be picking up the phone really fast.
00:10:26.000 He will.
00:10:26.000 What are you saying?
00:10:27.000 Are you implying I'm not cool enough to get Ben Shapiro on the line like that?
00:10:31.000 I think he only talks for money.
00:10:33.000 Oh, I can get him.
00:10:34.000 He's on Crowder every other day.
00:10:37.000 More importantly, what if there was an article in the New York Times that called you a white nationalist?
00:10:42.000 You, Ron Coleman.
00:10:43.000 It called you a white nationalist, a white supremacist.
00:10:46.000 It said you were a Holocaust denier. 0.54
00:10:49.000 All of this stuff.
00:10:50.000 Would you ignore it?
00:10:52.000 No, I mean, I have a pretty decent platform, and I have friends like you and others whose platforms are many times the size of mine.
00:10:59.000 So I would just hit the internet and go to town.
00:11:05.000 I certainly wouldn't bother with a lawsuit.
00:11:07.000 That would just be a ridiculous waste of time.
00:11:10.000 Oh, really?
00:11:10.000 That's fascinating.
00:11:12.000 If you were to pursue it legally, would it be a defamation case? 0.97
00:11:19.000 I suppose, I mean, you know, I try not to bring lawsuits that are stupid, if I can avoid it. 0.99
00:11:27.000 Although many often feel stupid after when they're done. 1.00
00:11:31.000 I try not to walk into the door marked stupid. 1.00
00:11:36.000 But here I am, right? 1.00
00:11:41.000 What else could it be?
00:11:42.000 Defamation, right?
00:11:43.000 I mean, some kind of, but, you know, in New York and New Jersey, we're pretty much the sphere of my activity.
00:11:50.000 I mean, like a guy who's on Twitter and who's associated with the conservatives is understood to be a Nazi.
00:11:58.000 I mean, there are people who have put me on white nationalist lists.
00:12:03.000 And, you know, I had just, it's meaningless. 0.76
00:12:06.000 It's just, it's nonsense. 0.90
00:12:08.000 I mean, in fact, at this point, if you haven't been called a Nazi, there's something seriously wrong with you. 0.93
00:12:15.000 Seriously.
00:12:16.000 How could it not be? 0.63
00:12:17.000 I mean, if you're in favor of borders, the existence of borders, the axiom of national sovereignty, you're racist. 0.85
00:12:26.000 Racist and Nazi are now synonyms. 0.56
00:12:30.000 If you are pro-Trump, I mean, then you are presumed to adopt all his supposedly Nazi, blah, blah, blah.
00:12:40.000 I mean, it's escapable.
00:12:42.000 And you can slice and dice policy by policy.
00:12:45.000 I've been called Nazi many, many times, and I'm a really bad Nazi. 0.95
00:12:50.000 Yeah, you are.
00:12:52.000 Well, you know what I've been doing is sending the editor letters from a lawyer, and that means their lawyers have to go through it, through it, And parse out what's manageable.
00:13:03.000 Then they go back, they change the article.
00:13:05.000 And the big picture that I appreciate about that is: A, I've cost them money legally because their lawyers had to do something.
00:13:12.000 B, I've shown the editor that this particular writer is an amateur, and when he writes articles, usually she, when she writes articles, you have to go through her stuff and fix all her mistakes.
00:13:26.000 And C, you get the record changed, and they inevitably buckle.
00:13:30.000 They change the headline like that.
00:13:32.000 It's not like they ever want to, they have a hill to stand on.
00:13:36.000 They never fight back.
00:13:37.000 It's bizarre.
00:13:38.000 For you, it makes perfect sense because you're getting that all the time.
00:13:42.000 I mean, for me, it's just, you know, I think actually my Nazi era, my Nazi period is probably in the rearview mirror. 0.81
00:13:52.000 2017 was a very big year for me and the Bund, you know, but since then, you know, since Twitter basically separated the silos, and I tend to not encounter, you know, that kind of people unless I'm trolling, which, you know, everyone likes a little bit of fun.
00:14:11.000 I really don't, it's not something that comes up too often.
00:14:13.000 You know, I really mostly have to worry about the fact that so many of my family members think I'm a Nazi.
00:14:21.000 That's a long period.
00:14:22.000 Periods are usually only 28 days.
00:14:25.000 And just to clear everything up with the folks at home, you defended a band of Asians they wanted to be called the Slants. 0.96
00:14:34.000 Yeah.
00:14:35.000 And you won that case.
00:14:37.000 They were able to keep that offensive name.
00:14:40.000 They were always allowed to keep the offensive name.
00:14:41.000 The only question was whether they were allowed to register it as a trademark, the United States Patent and Trademark Office.
00:14:47.000 Oh, yes.
00:14:47.000 They could call themselves whatever they wanted.
00:14:50.000 This was one of the few times in the last several years where the ACLU has gotten one right.
00:14:55.000 They were very helpful to us.
00:14:56.000 They have a pretty absolutist position with respect to free speech, unless it involves religion.
00:15:04.000 Luckily, religion wasn't implicated in this case, but they came out on our side. 0.98
00:15:10.000 And that probably made a big difference in terms of the left wing of the court. 0.51
00:15:14.000 I think we got Justice Ginsburg's vote by virtue of her longtime association with the ACLU, as well as the other left-wing justices.
00:15:24.000 And I will tell you that in light of what happened at the end of this term, with Justice Kennedy sort of, you know, kind of coming out as a closet conservative for just the last handful of decisions, I'm not sure we're going to see a unanimous Supreme Court opinion on a free speech issue for a very long time.
00:15:50.000 I think we're going back to a world where we always had Thurgood Marshall and Justice Brennan routinely being against whatever the conservative majority was for.
00:16:03.000 And I think that's probably where we're going on this court now.
00:16:08.000 Kennedy did have the ability, I think, to create consensus.
00:16:12.000 And I think our case was really a high watermark.
00:16:14.000 But it had no effect whatsoever on anyone's thinking or understanding about hate speech.
00:16:18.000 Zero.
00:16:21.000 Well, it affected mine. 0.99
00:16:22.000 So I'm dumb. 0.98
00:16:23.000 What are you saying? 0.98
00:16:24.000 Is this good or bad for the First Amendment, this new development, this lack of consensus?
00:16:31.000 Well, you know, the First Amendment doesn't need consensus.
00:16:38.000 I mean, as long as our constitutional government continues to exist, the First Amendment is there protecting our free expression.
00:16:46.000 So what I think is tremendous is that the Supreme Court has stood by itself, at least on the free speech side.
00:16:55.000 I mean, when you look at the religion decisions, it is troubling.
00:17:00.000 I think it's going to be better with the new justices that have been appointed by President Trump.
00:17:07.000 But in general, the idea that words have so little meaning and they become so devoid.
00:17:14.000 I mean, we're talking about an entire cultural crackup here.
00:17:18.000 It's not a matter of constitutional laws.
00:17:19.000 It's a matter of civil discourses and the very fabric of communication.
00:17:26.000 I don't know how it's going to be rebuilt.
00:17:28.000 I don't know what it's going to take for us to be able to talk to each other with respect again.
00:17:34.000 You know, there was a guy a week ago who said, hey, you know, speaking of Ben Shapiro, some actor who I never heard about and watched TV, who said, if you want to at least hear once conservative who's worth listening to, listen to Ben Shapiro.
00:17:50.000 There's a smart guy for you.
00:17:51.000 And he got killed.
00:17:53.000 Killed.
00:17:54.000 There's no room for discourse anymore.
00:17:57.000 I mean, you know, I've had to block people or mute people because they are in my world, but they're intolerable.
00:18:06.000 The things that they think it's okay to say to me personally over policy distinctions is, you know, you just, look, the best thing to do is to keep your social media lives separate from your personal life and your work life.
00:18:23.000 And don't let anyone know that you're like, you know, Gavin McGinnis.
00:18:26.000 I mean, forget it.
00:18:28.000 Forget it.
00:18:30.000 All right, Ron.
00:18:31.000 Well, thanks for coming on the show.
00:18:32.000 I appreciate that advice.
00:18:34.000 I'm the only person in the world who can't take it.
00:18:37.000 Well, shave that beard.
00:18:42.000 Don't look that guy in your avatar, your Skype avatar.
00:18:46.000 I won't bake your cake, buddy.
00:18:49.000 Thanks, Ron.
00:18:50.000 It's been an incredible simulation of reality.
00:18:52.000 I like you more than a friend.
00:18:53.000 Cheers.
00:18:59.000 Stolen from Japan.
00:19:04.000 He's a funny man, isn't he, Ron?
00:19:06.000 Let's talk to a funnier man, Mark.
00:19:10.000 Mark, are you there?
00:19:11.000 I'm here.
00:19:12.000 How you doing?
00:19:13.000 Great.
00:19:15.000 Sometimes I feel like committing law affair.
00:19:20.000 All right.
00:19:21.000 I feel like Soros does it.
00:19:23.000 I think my theory is that George Soros terrorizes Ezra Levant with frivolous lawsuits and pays someone to pay someone to pay someone to pay someone to bother him.
00:19:34.000 I think I get it occasionally, Charles C. Johnson, Cernovich, Pisobic.
00:19:39.000 And I want to start playing their game.
00:19:42.000 I want to start suing them.
00:19:44.000 Is that expensive?
00:19:46.000 Yes.
00:19:47.000 Well, you know, you get what you pay for.
00:19:49.000 I can certainly find you a very modestly priced attorney, but I can't tell you the results would be what you want.
00:19:58.000 But, you know, as far as third-party funding of lawsuits for kind of side purposes, that's nothing new.
00:20:09.000 I mean, that's something that everybody freaked out about when Peter Thiel paid for the Gawker lawsuit.
00:20:16.000 And although I looked at it, my knee-jerk reaction is always in favor of the media.
00:20:22.000 But I looked at it and I said, well, this is no different than when organizations such as the ACLU or the SPLC or the ADL or the NRA will fund lawsuits that might further their political goals.
00:20:38.000 Well, that's someone I'd love to sue is the SPLC.
00:20:41.000 They constantly lie about me and my organization.
00:20:44.000 They say hate and they'll find, you know, they cherry-pick these things going through 20 years and thousands of hours of content and they cherry-pick these stories, even though you say, I'm not an anti-Semite, I'm not a racist, I'm not, blah, blah, blah.
00:20:57.000 And I just want to say, all right, you know what?
00:20:59.000 We're going to court.
00:20:59.000 I'm done with this.
00:21:00.000 I mean, didn't it work for that Muslim guy who they called a racist?
00:21:04.000 It did.
00:21:05.000 It worked for him quite well.
00:21:08.000 I don't think it hurt that he was in the UK, but where the libel laws are a lot more opened up.
00:21:16.000 But I would say that as far as the theory goes, I think the SPLC has a very serious integrity deficiency.
00:21:27.000 And yeah, they've really gotten to the point where quote-unquote hate groups or racists or white supremacists are really just anyone they might be politically opposed to.
00:21:42.000 Yeah, they don't mind anti-Semitism when it comes from Muslims. 0.98
00:21:46.000 They don't mind racism when it's anti-white.
00:21:49.000 But anyone makes an unfortunate joke and they happen to support Trump, they're looking at having their lives ruined.
00:21:55.000 And the frustrating thing is the incurious, the moms of the world, your great aunt, they still think the SPLC is the 1970s SPLC.
00:22:06.000 So when they hear Hey Group, they go, well, that must be true.
00:22:10.000 It's the Southern Poverty Law Center.
00:22:12.000 Yeah, I remember, you know, most of my friends and relatives are left-wing.
00:22:19.000 And I remember when Trump got elected, the entire feed on my Facebook page was people screaming that they were going to now donate money to the SPLC to fight the upcoming wave of racism that we were going to have to deal with.
00:22:35.000 And, you know, I tried very hard to convince them, all right, if you want to donate money to fight racism, I can give you 10 great organizations to give money to.
00:22:44.000 Yeah.
00:22:44.000 But not that scam organization.
00:22:46.000 They have on their own website.
00:22:49.000 They can see that they have $430 million in the bank.
00:22:54.000 Plus, I like that kind of poverty.
00:22:56.000 I would like to be that poverty strategy.
00:22:59.000 You look at the building itself, and they have this cement fountain that is bigger than my house, this big sort of orb, this big sphere that's spewing out water in an infinite way.
00:23:10.000 I mean, they're not very self-conscious about their wealth.
00:23:12.000 It looks like CAA, the casting company, whatever, the agents that represent all the big celebrities.
00:23:19.000 You go to CAA in Los Angeles and you feel like you're at Darth Vader's house.
00:23:24.000 And it's the same with the SPLC.
00:23:25.000 Like, you can't believe the wealth around you.
00:23:28.000 You know, there was a case recently in a bar called The Griffin in LA, and a bunch of proud boys just went there wearing MAGA hats to drink beer.
00:23:36.000 A bunch of comedians went there, attacked them, got them kicked out.
00:23:40.000 In the footage, by the way, there was this Puerto Rican war vet wearing a MAGA hat.
00:23:45.000 He was kicked out, fired from his job for being in that video.
00:23:53.000 And by the way, the group of Proud Boys were mostly non-white, and the ones attacking them were 100% white. 0.68
00:23:59.000 And they went there to, you know, fight racism.
00:24:00.000 Anyway, my understanding in California...
00:24:05.000 It's ironic, isn't it?
00:24:06.000 It's always the case.
00:24:07.000 Always the case. 0.90
00:24:09.000 A group of Latino and black Proud Boys get attacked by a bunch of overprivileged white boys. 0.94
00:24:16.000 Yeah. 0.97
00:24:16.000 Every time. 0.97
00:24:17.000 They're the racists. 0.97
00:24:18.000 Antifa is always more white than the people they're attacking. 1.00
00:24:22.000 I think the only black guy they have is Mika Rhodes, and he just got caught raping tons of underage girls and boys. 0.99
00:24:31.000 That's the best they can do. 0.98
00:24:32.000 But my understanding with California is they're very strict legally about political bias.
00:24:39.000 And I believe it comes down to, it comes back to communism because they were worried about communists in the 50s and 60s being persecuted.
00:24:47.000 So they made the laws very strict about not serving someone based on their political preference.
00:24:53.000 And there was even a case, actually, sorry, this is going on so long.
00:24:56.000 Look, you're even talking to other people.
00:24:58.000 It's going on so long.
00:25:00.000 Who are you talking to there?
00:25:02.000 I'm sorry.
00:25:02.000 One of my associates just came in.
00:25:05.000 My associate.
00:25:07.000 Are you just asking to come in?
00:25:08.000 Yeah, I just wanted you to shut the door.
00:25:10.000 Oh, sorry.
00:25:12.000 We'll do it live.
00:25:14.000 Okay, we'll do it live.
00:25:17.000 There was a guy in California who had a swastika pin on.
00:25:20.000 This was the precedent-setting case with this law.
00:25:23.000 And they said, you can eat at this restaurant, but take off that pin.
00:25:26.000 And he said, no.
00:25:27.000 He brought them to court.
00:25:28.000 He won because these laws are so solid in California.
00:25:32.000 So not that I'm defending Nazis, but I think we have a great case to sue the Griffin bar.
00:25:39.000 This thing isn't even doing anything.
00:25:40.000 I'm just wearing gloves there.
00:25:44.000 Took me that long.
00:25:45.000 That's how media savvy I am.
00:25:46.000 It was keeping your ears warm.
00:25:48.000 Yeah, it's 120 degrees here.
00:25:53.000 You know, I don't know if there's a claim against the Griffin because the Griffin, didn't it originally say we don't care who's in here?
00:26:00.000 You know, the only color we see is green.
00:26:02.000 Yes.
00:26:03.000 And then what happened after that?
00:26:07.000 Then the comedians showed up, took their MAGA hats, a kerfuffle ensued, and I believe the bartender told them to leave.
00:26:16.000 I mean, at that point, I don't think, yeah, it doesn't sound like a good claim to me, only because I see it as a once there's a once there's a kerfuffle, you know, you can take anti-kerfuffle actions on an expedited basis.
00:26:32.000 You know, they probably had to do that in order to avoid liability.
00:26:36.000 I'm starting to think, I'm still going to try to sue them, and it'll probably cost me $5 to $10 just to get the ball rolling, but I'm starting to think this law fair is really just for billionaires.
00:26:48.000 Well, at least millionaires, because if you look at, look, attorneys are not cheap.
00:26:54.000 Even a crappy attorney is going to cost you a couple hundred bucks an hour.
00:26:58.000 I bill significantly in excess of that.
00:27:03.000 I mean, I bill $700 an hour.
00:27:06.000 I'd rather be doing other things.
00:27:08.000 I mean, I like litigating, but I also like to go to the beach and hang out with my kids and do other fun stuff.
00:27:16.000 So that's what it costs to get me to not do that.
00:27:19.000 If you even just look at, you know, 10 hours of work, that's $7,000 off the top.
00:27:25.000 Right.
00:27:26.000 That's correct.
00:27:27.000 And you guys will answer the phone and you call that an hour.
00:27:30.000 Oh, no, we'll do a 0.1.
00:27:31.000 We bill in tenths of an hour.
00:27:32.000 Most lawyers will do that. 0.98
00:27:35.000 You pick up the phone, that's a 0.1.
00:27:37.000 That's 70 bucks.
00:27:38.000 Okay.
00:27:41.000 When would you recommend fighting?
00:27:42.000 Like, if someone calls you a Nazi or a white nationalist, that just seems, I was talking to Ron Coleman about this, and it just seems way too expensive for way little, way, way too little change. 0.96
00:27:54.000 And also, they've diluted these allegations with this white nationalist crap where it just means Trump supporter. 0.97
00:28:00.000 It's almost like you can't sue for it anymore. 0.99
00:28:03.000 Or even somebody who isn't sufficiently anti-Trump.
00:28:08.000 I mean, I don't find myself, I don't know that I'd call myself a Trump supporter.
00:28:14.000 You know, I didn't vote for the guy.
00:28:16.000 If he keeps up what he's doing, I'll probably vote for him for re-election because I'm actually quite thrilled with his Supreme Court picks.
00:28:24.000 Pretty happy with some of the other stuff he's done.
00:28:26.000 You know, he's not everything.
00:28:29.000 If I tailor-made a president, it wouldn't be him.
00:28:33.000 But, you know, what president has been?
00:28:35.000 No, yeah, exactly.
00:28:37.000 You know, even that is enough to be a white supremacist apologist in this day and age to certain people, including people that I call my friends.
00:28:46.000 You know, well, you're just emboldening and normalizing white supremacy. 0.97
00:28:51.000 God, I hate that. 0.93
00:28:52.000 But not hating the president of the United States enough. 0.94
00:28:55.000 Yeah, the SBLC said that I'm not a racist, but I'm a gateway drug to racism.
00:29:00.000 So you listen to me, and the next thing you know, you like David Duke.
00:29:04.000 Right, sure.
00:29:04.000 And then next thing you know, you're in an alley like, you know, for copies of Mind Comps.
00:29:13.000 Mark, when should someone sue?
00:29:17.000 What?
00:29:17.000 We can talk any way we want on this show.
00:29:19.000 No, I have to bleep that, but it's still funny.
00:29:22.000 When should someone sue?
00:29:24.000 Like, can you give me an example of a case you're working on or recently worked on where you thought this is worth someone spending a ton of money on?
00:29:32.000 This is a good fight.
00:29:34.000 You know, I've had, I don't usually do plaintiff side defamation cases, although I have done a number of them.
00:29:43.000 You know, I had one where a pretty well-known public figure was accused of rape.
00:29:50.000 And the blogger that wrote about it wrote about, claimed that he had raped a woman who came to her and wanted to break her story.
00:29:59.000 This was right, it's actually kind of raped before the whole Me Too thing happened.
00:30:05.000 And we found that that was certainly sufficient grounds to sue her.
00:30:10.000 We sued the source, not the blogger herself, because as a public figure, if somebody comes to a journalist and says, accuses you of that, since you're a public figure, it's harder for you to win that case.
00:30:25.000 So if that journalist has a reliable source, they're going to get away with that.
00:30:29.000 Plus, the journalist can just say, alleged, and this person told me without saying it's true, and they get the story without the litigation.
00:30:39.000 Right, but then what you do is you sue the source.
00:30:43.000 And of course, these journalists will say, well, it's an unnamed source.
00:30:45.000 I'm not giving up my source.
00:30:47.000 And they have a right to do that.
00:30:49.000 But they don't have a right to do that to defend a defamation claim.
00:30:52.000 So if I say, if I went and wrote on my blog some accusation like that against you and then said, well, I'm relying on a source for this and I'm not giving that source up.
00:31:03.000 Well, then that's too bad for me.
00:31:04.000 Then I lose.
00:31:06.000 I see.
00:31:07.000 So if I promise that source confidentiality, it's either lose the defamation case or burn the source.
00:31:12.000 Huh.
00:31:13.000 And I guarantee you, journalists cannot wait to flip on their source.
00:31:17.000 I've been dealing with these people for a while now, and they buckle like that.
00:31:22.000 One lawyer letter and they fold.
00:31:24.000 It depends on the journalist.
00:31:25.000 I mean, I know journalists, and I've helped journalists protect the confidentiality of their sources.
00:31:31.000 Not liberals, not lefties, not HuffPost, Slate, Salon, New York Times, Daily Mail, even.
00:31:39.000 You know, there have been journalists I know for the New York Times who've gone to prison rather than give up their sources.
00:31:45.000 Oh, yes, that is true.
00:31:46.000 Sorry.
00:31:47.000 You're right.
00:31:47.000 In the good old days, back when the New York Times used to do journalism.
00:31:51.000 Exactly.
00:31:51.000 Totally different universe.
00:31:53.000 How much did this guy get when he sued the source?
00:31:58.000 I can't disclose anything else about that.
00:32:02.000 Is it going to be substantial? 0.98
00:32:04.000 You're suing some lying, crazy chick who's probably, her house is probably a futon on the floor, a big pile of clean laundry, a big pile of dirty laundry. 1.00
00:32:13.000 Like, what are we going to get? 0.99
00:32:14.000 Two piles of laundry and a futon out of her? 1.00
00:32:16.000 I don't know that I could say that there was a pile of clean laundry.
00:32:22.000 Yeah, look, if you're ever suing for defamation for the money, you're doing it for the wrong reason.
00:32:30.000 I mean, yeah, there have been defamation verdicts that are just fabulous.
00:32:34.000 I mean, the Rolling Stone case is when Sabrina Erdele decided to fabricate the rape on campus story. 0.88
00:32:41.000 And that worked out quite well for the plaintiffs.
00:32:45.000 But you do have these other cases where somebody can be libel proof.
00:32:50.000 I'm sorry, judgment proof.
00:32:51.000 Yeah, if somebody's just some broke loser, there's not much you can do except get your judgment that shows that they were a lying. 0.72
00:32:59.000 Right. 0.99
00:32:59.000 So at least you can say, hey, didn't you rape someone? 0.99
00:33:02.000 No, I sued them. 0.90
00:33:03.000 Look, here's the verdict.
00:33:05.000 Yeah.
00:33:06.000 Now, if it's somebody, let's say it was you, I think the initial story Gavin McGinnis accused of insert horrible crime here would make page one.
00:33:17.000 And then when you win your defamation verdict, you know, I don't know that that'll be as tweeted about, at least by people who hate you.
00:33:25.000 It would make page 36, but at least I could scream about this ongoing court case, which it just becomes such a farce these days.
00:33:34.000 I wish you could just sue people for lying and make them change it.
00:33:39.000 But it feels like the Trump derangement syndrome has just gone absolutely off the rails. 0.99
00:33:45.000 There was just a guy, there was a black woman stabbed in Oakland by a loser transient nut. 0.98
00:33:51.000 They decided to say it was Proud Boys that did the stabbing, and they were meeting at a bar to celebrate. 0.96
00:33:56.000 And then that crazy lie rumor got so intense that they were beating up dudes wearing American flag shirts, assuming they were part of this group that stabbed the girl.
00:34:06.000 You know, it does seem strange for me, you know, and I've always been a little bit of a kind of a left-wing firebrand, I mean, for decades.
00:34:16.000 But it never occurred to me that it made a lot of sense to act in violence against somebody who's wearing an American flag shirt.
00:34:24.000 You know, or even somebody who's, you know, I think the president that I have despised more than any in my lifetime is George W. Bush.
00:34:34.000 I still think the guy crashed the car while we let him drive it and is responsible for really putting a huge crack in what America is.
00:34:43.000 Yeah, I think he's the one who broke open the borders to a large extent.
00:34:46.000 Well, he's also the one who essentially just went into the Middle East like some child with a stick on Sandcastle Day and bashed everything over and then ran away.
00:34:58.000 But it never occurred to me ever to key a car that saw a W sticker on it or to even say anything really nasty to somebody wearing a George, I'm with Bush shirt.
00:35:14.000 I would look at them and go, really, man?
00:35:16.000 I was saying that to my wife the other day.
00:35:18.000 She was talking about MAGA hats in restaurants and how I was saying, if I get attacked at a restaurant, here's what's going to go down. 0.91
00:35:23.000 I'm going to attack them.
00:35:24.000 You should run out the back, blah, blah, blah. 1.00
00:35:26.000 And she goes, oh, I hate Trump.
00:35:27.000 And I go, it's not Trump.
00:35:29.000 No one ever got kicked out of a restaurant for wearing an Obama hat.
00:35:32.000 They never got kicked out for wearing a Bill Clinton hat.
00:35:37.000 It's the left.
00:35:38.000 They are deranged and they can't accept that they lost. 0.92
00:35:44.000 Yeah, I agree. 0.91
00:35:45.000 I mean, when the campaign was going on, I mocked the Trump campaign.
00:35:51.000 I said, there's no way this guy's going to win.
00:35:54.000 And then the Clinton campaign, I said, my God, I can't believe she's going to be president.
00:35:58.000 I mean, I was in no way supportive of her either.
00:36:01.000 I voted for Gary Johnson, so don't blame me.
00:36:03.000 I threw my vote in the trash.
00:36:06.000 Thanks.
00:36:07.000 But, you know, when her entire rhetoric was, vote for me, or it's going to be the Fourth Reich. 0.90
00:36:13.000 It's going to be the Handmaid's Tale. 0.88
00:36:15.000 There's going to be complete and utter chaos, destruction, nuclear war, and people will die.
00:36:22.000 That's all fine if you win.
00:36:24.000 But then when she didn't win, now you got a problem.
00:36:27.000 Yeah.
00:36:28.000 Because now you got to get a woman to admit she was wrong. 0.99
00:36:32.000 Not happening.
00:36:32.000 In fact, what's happened is that the entire group has said politics.
00:36:37.000 Pardon me?
00:36:38.000 I mean, it's rare that it ever happens in life.
00:36:41.000 I mean, I'm sure you're married, right?
00:36:44.000 I'm sure you keep a running tally of every time your wife says, okay, I was wrong.
00:36:49.000 And it's like maybe three times in your entire marriage, two?
00:36:52.000 Yeah, that really is the number.
00:36:54.000 It is two or three times.
00:36:55.000 Right.
00:36:55.000 You know, you keep track of those.
00:36:57.000 Like, remember in 1998 when you those are the only times she's been wrong.
00:37:02.000 So she's accurate with that.
00:37:03.000 Well played.
00:37:05.000 But, you know, she's, you've really, I just get this, that, that spin doctor song in my head.
00:37:11.000 You know, Little Miss Can't Be Wrong. 1.00
00:37:13.000 How about, yeah, maybe the entire republic will not come to a crashing destruction in nuclear winter because we have a guy who said, grab him by the pussy. 0.99
00:37:24.000 Well, what's happened was, despite economic prosperity, despite black unemployment low, despite curing Kim Jong-un, despite all these successes, the left has taken Hillary's narrative as fact and said, look, it's the Fourth Reich. 1.00
00:37:41.000 Look, there's people stabbing black girls for no reason. 1.00
00:37:45.000 Isn't it horrible? 0.98
00:37:46.000 And you go, that didn't happen.
00:37:48.000 Right.
00:37:49.000 No, there's this, you know, there's supposedly this uptick in hate crimes, which I don't think that that claim is borne out by the statistics.
00:37:56.000 No, there's probably an uptick in reported hate crimes, but that includes so many hoaxes that there's no data differential.
00:38:05.000 Right.
00:38:05.000 And, you know, that's a very different thing than saying racism went away.
00:38:08.000 I mean, it didn't go away.
00:38:10.000 Racism's still here.
00:38:11.000 There's still consequences of it.
00:38:13.000 I mean, I'm very glad that I'm not black when I'm driving really fast in my car, you know, breaking the speed limit, cutting down a one-way street, because I know if I get pulled over, it's just going to be about money, and I'm not going to get the back of my head blown off. 1.00
00:38:27.000 Oh, so now we see your liberal side.
00:38:29.000 Now we see where Mark lies. 0.52
00:38:32.000 Look, statistically speaking, I'm really glad I'm not black when I get pulled over. 1.00
00:38:36.000 Yeah, well, statistically speaking, you tend to be kinder to the police and easier to deal with than when do I got to get out of the car.
00:38:45.000 I didn't do anything wrong.
00:38:47.000 Yeah, when they pull me over, I got a big smile on my face because I know, you know, I do the math.
00:38:51.000 If I drove the speed limit, you know, $700 an hour billable time, if I drive the speed limit everywhere I go, I lose this many dollars in my life.
00:39:01.000 So if I get pulled over and it's a $600 fine, well, I'm going to make that up in about three weeks of fast driving.
00:39:11.000 Yeah, it all makes sense.
00:39:13.000 Wow, you're smart.
00:39:16.000 That's why we don't have our cops kill you.
00:39:18.000 Mark, thanks for coming on the show.
00:39:20.000 We went too long.
00:39:22.000 We went overtime because you're interesting, but let's have you back again soon.
00:39:25.000 Anytime, man.
00:39:26.000 I like you more than a friend.
00:39:36.000 Get off my line.