Get Off My Lawn - Gavin McInnes - Ep 182 | Religion in Peril: Catholicism and Islam | Get Off My Lawn

00:00:26.000 Sarah Al Iraqia, welcome to the show.

00:00:29.000 I'm happy to be here.

00:00:30.000 Now, you are an outspoken ex-Muslim from Iraq.

00:00:35.000 Yes.

00:00:36.000 And that's very different than, say, being an ex-Christian or an ex-anything, really.

00:00:43.000 It's a lot braver.

00:00:46.000 Do you feel persecuted?

00:00:48.000 Do you feel that you're at risk?

00:00:50.000 No, I wish someone would try something.

00:00:54.000 I found myself actually in the most auspicious, lucky of situations where I am able to use my voice and use my platform and live in a time where I can warn others that this is not something that we have just imported by people.

00:01:14.000 We've also imported ideas.

00:01:16.000 So most of our local mosques, if they are Sunni, which is the sect of Islam that I grew up with, I received a five-star Wahhabi education right here in the United States.

00:01:26.000 Wow.

00:01:28.000 Isn't that Wahhabi the bad news? 1.00

00:01:30.000 Well, all of it is bad news.

00:01:30.000 Yes.

00:01:30.000 Right.

00:01:32.000 I like it with sushi.

00:01:33.000 It's good with sushi, but otherwise it's dangerous.

00:01:37.000 Yeah, Wahhabi with your sushi. 0.94

00:01:39.000 Well, Irshad Manji talks about in her book, The Trouble with Islam.

00:01:42.000 She says, Wahhabism took over. 1.00

00:01:44.000 Is that the correct way to say it?

00:01:45.000 Yes.

00:01:46.000 Wahhabism infiltrated the religion and bastardized it, right? 1.00

00:01:49.000 And I always say to that, well, why was it able to bastardize?

00:01:52.000 You can't, the guys who think they're immune to snake bites, those evangelical Christians, they couldn't take over Christianity.

00:01:58.000 People just go, no, I'm not doing that.

00:01:59.000 Yeah.

00:02:00.000 So why was Islam so vulnerable?

00:02:04.000 Why was it able to be hijacked?

00:02:07.000 Well, the way that Islam is taught is puts it in a position as an ideology to be very easy to manipulate and very easy to manipulate masses. 0.99

00:02:20.000 Because one part of Islamic doctrine and education, one key part is that our book, the Quran, which is the third book revealed by the Abrahamic one God, this book is actually perfect.

00:02:38.000 The Jews had their books tampered with by man.

00:02:42.000 The Christians had their books tampered with by man.

00:02:45.000 But the Quran is a perfect word directly from God. 1.00

00:02:48.000 And to deny any verse within that book is an affront to Islam, is apostasy in itself.

00:02:55.000 And you will be met with, I don't know, I don't even want to think what you will be met with.

00:03:00.000 It sounds very militant.

00:03:01.000 I mean, I'm getting scared just hearing about this.

00:03:03.000 It's like a spooky book.

00:03:05.000 You don't hear that with other religions so much.

00:03:06.000 There's a lot more benevolence even when discussing the Torah or the Bible.

00:03:11.000 Let's go back a step, though.

00:03:12.000 So you were born in Iraq?

00:03:15.000 I was actually the only one in my family who was born in the United States.

00:03:18.000 Okay.

00:03:19.000 My parents came here and I was born about three months later in Connecticut.

00:03:23.000 And your parents are still Muslim? 0.97

00:03:24.000 Sometimes you have to...

00:03:31.000 Sometimes you have to put on a face for your own safety.

00:03:35.000 Right.

00:03:36.000 So my father was never religious and my mother just kind of had a very loose interpretation.

00:03:43.000 I would say like an Irish Manji kind of interpretation.

00:03:47.000 You can be a lesbian. 1.00

00:03:48.000 Or you can be a lesbian and yeah, for sure. 1.00

00:03:51.000 Look at Linda Starsur and she's screaming about Kavanaugh. 1.00

00:03:54.000 And they all hate Kavanaugh because they think he's pro-life.

00:03:54.000 Oh yeah.

00:03:56.000 He's going to overturn Roe v.

00:03:58.000 Wade.

00:03:58.000 Sharia would overturn Roe v.

00:04:00.000 You can't be pro-Sharia and pro-choice. 0.84

00:04:00.000 Wade. 0.84

00:04:03.000 And when you see public figures like this, you also see them in the Black Lives Matter movement as well.

00:04:09.000 And that is just, I really want to get this message out to anyone who is African American or black, however you want to call yourself.

00:04:20.000 Islam is not going back to your roots.

00:04:22.000 It's not going back to Mother Africa.

00:04:25.000 Islam is a religion that has historically, systematically enslaved black people for centuries. 1.00

00:04:33.000 Right, way before white people ever did. 0.60

00:04:35.000 Right, and to this day in the mosque, you will see how black Muslims are treated versus how Arab and lighter-skinned Muslims are treated.

00:04:43.000 Well, we knew it was sexist, we knew it was homophobic, but the racist one doesn't get mentioned very much.

00:04:43.000 Huh.

00:04:48.000 But when you think of it historically, well, you keep seeing these black Muslims in prison, though. 0.99

00:04:55.000 Yeah, well, Islam in prison is a whole other topic. 0.88

00:05:00.000 It's actually very beneficial to convert to Islam in prison, which is why you see it so often. 1.00

00:05:06.000 And many Imams or Islamic preachers will say, see how forgiving and loving of a religion this is?

00:05:13.000 We even forgive the criminals and they can see the light and change their lives around.

00:05:17.000 No, this is how to make a legal gang inside of a prison.

00:05:20.000 They get better food.

00:05:22.000 They're getting halal food, which is going to be separately made.

00:05:24.000 So it's going to be better.

00:05:26.000 Right.

00:05:27.000 You know, even if it doesn't have bacon in it or something good, you know, it's still going to be better than the rest of the prison slop that people are eating.

00:05:34.000 They get to have their prayer times five times a day.

00:05:37.000 Really, it is a way to make a legal gang inside of U.S. prisons with our tax dollars.

00:05:45.000 Well, those gangs go out.

00:05:46.000 We did a whole episode.

00:05:47.000 It was actually in this very room where we talked about Islamberg and how African American Muslims leave the prison and they start at Islamberg.

00:05:57.000 And then there's now a cabal, a network of about 20 different camps that are portrayed as peaceful Muslim little villages, but they're really jihadi training camps. 0.89

00:06:08.000 Right.

00:06:08.000 And when we checked it out in Islamberg, everyone made fun of us and said, oh, you're just trying to intimidate people.

00:06:15.000 But then we see down in, what was it, Orlando with the guy who's starving his children in that jihadi training camp and they were planning to shoot up schools. 0.79

00:06:24.000 Remember that?

00:06:25.000 Wow, yes.

00:06:26.000 Unbelievable.

00:06:27.000 And now the people who say, oh, you shouldn't have been checking out Islamberg, we go, well, is the fact that we caught this other guy, does that justify our trip down there?

00:06:36.000 And they go, no, no, that's different.

00:06:37.000 That's different.

00:06:38.000 And that's something that Islam is so good at, is separating different lone wolf incidents.

00:06:43.000 And there's no cohesion there.

00:06:44.000 That was random.

00:06:45.000 That's not real Islam. 1.00

00:06:46.000 That's not true Islam. 1.00

00:06:48.000 That's the catchphrase.

00:06:49.000 That's the skipping broken record you hear over and over.

00:06:52.000 Now, my father, not being a religious man, is quite interesting because he actually memorized the entire Quran.

00:07:00.000 He went to a private Islamic school where he memorized the entire Quran.

00:07:04.000 And then when he was done memorizing it, he went to his parents and he said, "I want to go to school with all the other kids, "with the Christian kids as well, "because I feel like an outsider, "and I feel like I don't agree with what I just read." And this is when he's in Iraq or when he's in Iraq?

00:07:18.000 I see.

00:07:20.000 And he can quote scriptures from the Quran better than some of these Wahhabi clerics. 0.92

00:07:27.000 And he's what is called a hafiz, which means he's memorized the entire book.

00:07:34.000 And for someone who has memorized the entire book and has chosen to remove themselves from that religion immediately upon memorizing that entire book, it's very telling. 0.71

00:07:44.000 And during his time, we were talking earlier, during his time studying in England, he saw one Islamic preacher in the street and asked his buddy, who was a local to the area, does this happen often?

00:08:00.000 He said, oh, once or twice, sometimes.

00:08:03.000 He said, one time is too many.

00:08:06.000 He said this in the 80s.

00:08:07.000 And then he said, you know what?

00:08:08.000 Where exactly, sorry?

00:08:09.000 This was in London.

00:08:10.000 He also lived in Dublin.

00:08:12.000 He saw some things happening there that he didn't like and made him nervous.

00:08:16.000 And he said, whichever one says yes first, Canada or USA, but we're going to get the heck out of here.

00:08:21.000 And I don't want to know what's going to happen to Europe.

00:08:24.000 And look at Europe now.

00:08:26.000 Well, you're called racist if you're dubious of Islam, but there's plenty of white Muslims.

00:08:30.000 And we saw what they can get up to in the Boston bombing.

00:08:33.000 And we saw the kidnapping in Chechnya and Georgia where they would hold schools hostage.

00:08:39.000 It just seems to me, irregardless of race, regardless of race I should say, that the more prevalent Islam becomes, the more backwards the culture gets. 1.00

00:08:48.000 We were talking earlier about Lebanon, which used to be a Christian country.

00:08:52.000 Now it's a Muslim country. 0.97

00:08:53.000 And Lebanon today looks much worse than Lebanon 40 years ago. 0.60

00:09:00.000 And you keep seeing, look at Iran from the day after the revolution, and the women are wearing hijabs. 0.99

00:09:05.000 It just, it seems to be a very unique religion in that it sends people back in time.

00:09:11.000 It really does.

00:09:12.000 And that's so funny.

00:09:14.000 That's actually another thing that my father would say a lot, that it just, it's bringing us back in time.

00:09:20.000 And my mother, you know, when they first came to America, she kind of, when you come from any kind of conservative sort of culture, let's say you come here from Poland, which is quite, you know, they're quite conservative in some ways.

00:09:32.000 And you start seeing all these things on television that you're not used to seeing.

00:09:37.000 So you think, okay, I want my child to grow up right with some morality, so I'm going to send them to this Sunday school.

00:09:44.000 And so this was basically the intent of my mother.

00:09:49.000 And I stormed out of the mosque because of what was being taught there. 0.93

00:09:53.000 At the age of 14, I was taught that if I don't have sex with my husband whenever he calls for me, I will be cursed by the angels until the morning.

00:10:03.000 And then they told us what hell looks like.

00:10:05.000 Your skin burns off, it grows back, and it burns off again.

00:10:08.000 And they were telling this to ages.

00:10:10.000 Okay, okay, I'll have sex. 0.63

00:10:11.000 Yeah, yeah.

00:10:12.000 They were telling us ages 13 to 18-year-old girls, though.

00:10:17.000 And I didn't feel like that was appropriate.

00:10:20.000 My parents taught me what is something appropriate for an adult to say to you and what isn't.

00:10:25.000 And I felt like what they were doing was child abuse and what my parents would classify as child abuse.

00:10:32.000 So I basically stormed out of the mosque. 0.89

00:10:34.000 And when I told my parents before I left, the Imam stopped me actually.

00:10:38.000 And he said, I know your family.

00:10:41.000 And don't they own some businesses in the area?

00:10:44.000 And a lot of people at this mosque tend to go to those businesses.

00:10:47.000 Wow.

00:10:48.000 Almost like a mafia.

00:10:49.000 Yeah, and to try to run us out of town and kind of make me, the 14-year-old girl, the scapegoat.

00:10:56.000 Right.

00:10:58.000 A shame to my family.

00:10:59.000 And the joke is on him because when I told my parents what happened, they said, oh my goodness, we came all the way here to get away from these guys and these guys are here.

00:11:07.000 Our daughter did the right thing.

00:11:08.000 And where are we talking about?

00:11:09.000 What city?

00:11:10.000 This was right outside Washington, D.C. Huh.

00:11:12.000 Right outside of our nation's capital.

00:11:13.000 Five-star will have education.

00:11:15.000 You can get it there.

00:11:16.000 No, thanks.

00:11:18.000 It seems to me, and it's hard to gauge because we're talking about a billion people, but it seems to me there's a real ex-Muslim movement going on.

00:11:26.000 Yes, it's beautiful.

00:11:27.000 Like we just had this guy who sued the SPLC.

00:11:29.000 I always forget his name.

00:11:30.000 What is it?

00:11:30.000 Majid Noaz.

00:11:32.000 Majid Noaz.

00:11:33.000 And he sued them for, because, And then liberals are going, how dare you?

00:11:47.000 And they're trying to affect the free speech of these people who aren't saying, I hate Muslims or I hate Islam.

00:11:52.000 They're saying, this was my experience.

00:11:54.000 Like, what's her name?

00:11:55.000 Ayan Hirsiali.

00:11:57.000 She just is describing her experience in Somalia or wherever it was.

00:12:02.000 And she's being told, no, you can't see that.

00:12:04.000 That's hate speech.

00:12:04.000 And she's like, it's not hate speech.

00:12:05.000 It's my life.

00:12:07.000 So the leftist rebuttal that I hear very often is, yes, well, you are an isolated incident.

00:12:15.000 And to use your isolated incident as ammunition against a whole group of people and to be an Islamophobe and to spread bigotry is wrong.

00:12:24.000 Yeah, well, not if it's so wrong.

00:12:26.000 Not if you were doing it to Christianity. 0.82

00:12:27.000 If you, like, atheists can go bananas. 0.99

00:12:29.000 I just saw they had a giant devil satanic statue.

00:12:33.000 A Baphomet, yes.

00:12:35.000 So that's funny and cool.

00:12:37.000 But you're not allowed to have free speech when you're criticizing Islam.

00:12:40.000 It's blasphemy.

00:12:41.000 We have blasphemy laws. 0.99

00:12:42.000 Like Lauren Southern.

00:12:43.000 The reason she's not allowed into England ever again is for blasphemy.

00:12:46.000 I want to hug people like Lauren Southern, women like Lauren Southern, because she is a white woman without fear.

00:12:54.000 She knows what backlash that she will get as being a white woman and saying this, speaking up on behalf of The dead Muslim girls, young girls, and ex-Muslim women.

00:13:04.000 And meanwhile, we have feminists here who are fighting for very strange rights and wearing very strange hats. 1.00

00:13:13.000 Well, that's another time when the liberals end up contradicting themselves because they, did you see at the Women's March, they were putting on hijabs, which my understanding of that's that's blasphemy too, because that's not a Muslim. 1.00

00:13:26.000 So when you start wearing Muslim garb, especially to have a man doing it, a man putting on an American flag hijab. 0.98

00:13:32.000 What?

00:13:33.000 Yes, so a lot of these kinds of gimmicks and basically publicity stunts are it's an unholy alliance between the left and Islamism. 1.00

00:13:50.000 Not even just Islam. 0.88

00:13:51.000 I'm talking full-blown Islamism, political Islam, wants to take over America. 1.00

00:13:58.000 And it's true. 0.56

00:14:00.000 This is not hyperbolic.

00:14:01.000 We already see, we've seen social enclaves.

00:14:04.000 We've seen neighborhoods that are mostly Muslim.

00:14:06.000 And what they'll do is they'll write to their city councilmen or whoever is in charge in that area.

00:14:12.000 They will, first thing you'll see, all the restaurants become halal because they've all gotten together and petitioned for that.

00:14:18.000 And if you've ever seen a halal slaughter, I don't really know.

00:14:22.000 Really do it.

00:14:22.000 They slit the neck?

00:14:23.000 Yes, and usually the animal itself just looks famished and disgusting and they say, this is the healthiest meat you can have.

00:14:31.000 That animal looks really depressed.

00:14:33.000 Looks like you tortured it first.

00:14:34.000 Yeah, they did.

00:14:35.000 Yeah, they probably did.

00:14:36.000 They're sick.

00:14:37.000 Last question, we're out of time.

00:14:39.000 But do you feel like you're under duress?

00:14:43.000 Do you feel threatened?

00:14:44.000 Are you scared?

00:14:45.000 Not at all.

00:14:46.000 I go to the range regularly whenever I go back down to Virginia.

00:14:49.000 Yeah, I mean, there's fatwas.

00:14:51.000 I feel like if there was a fatwa out on you in Britain, you'd be a lot more scared than in America.

00:14:56.000 I feel like, well, a Muslim's only 1% of the population here.

00:15:00.000 And I just don't feel like you'd be in that danger.

00:15:04.000 But then you see that jihadi training camp and you think, maybe I'm wrong.

00:15:07.000 Maybe there is a risk of someone coming in and just trying to kill you.

00:15:12.000 I mean, I receive messages regularly.

00:15:15.000 Even the other day I received a message from someone who is a proud boy.

00:15:20.000 And I just recently learned about this movement.

00:15:22.000 I think it's great.

00:15:23.000 Keep going because West is best.

00:15:26.000 Or else I would not be here.

00:15:28.000 I would be somewhere else.

00:15:31.000 And basically telling me, keep going, keep doing what you're doing, and just know that we defend women like you. 1.00

00:15:38.000 We care for women like you. 1.00

00:15:39.000 Yeah.

00:15:40.000 I mean, if you're going to tell the truth, it should be in a place that has free speech.

00:15:43.000 Why have free speech if you can't help other people who don't have it?

00:15:47.000 Exactly.

00:15:48.000 And I think that this movement is excellent on behalf of the people who are just so altruistic and passionately in love with Western lifestyle.

00:16:00.000 You and I are sitting here, I'm dressed haram, and you have Osama bin Laden t-shirt on, and we can do this, and we can joke and laugh about it, and no one is going to come hurt us or throw us in prison or anything like that.

00:16:18.000 I think Ayanne Herciali said that.

00:16:20.000 She said, people who have always experienced freedom take it for granted.

00:16:24.000 And it takes someone like me, someone who has lived in a world without freedom, to know how sacred it is.

00:16:29.000 Yes.

00:16:30.000 Thanks for coming on the show.

00:16:31.000 Thank you.

00:16:32.000 Thank you for having me.

00:16:33.000 The way we're going, man, on our lost day, we'll see.

00:16:39.000 George Neumeier, you are the author of a wonderful book called The Political Pope, and you're also contributing editor to the American Spectator.

00:16:47.000 And I wanted to get you on the show here because I see you as one of the reigning experts on this pedophile problem we have as Catholics in the Catholic Church.

00:17:01.000 What set you off on this?

00:17:03.000 What was your impetus to start hunting these guys down?

00:17:07.000 Well, I noticed that the gay mafia in the Catholic Church is enormously influential and widespread, and nobody was talking about that problem. 1.00

00:17:17.000 Can you expand on that term gay mafia? 0.51

00:17:19.000 Because it's used in Hollywood a lot, too.

00:17:20.000 Yeah, well, there's basically a network of priests and bishops and cardinals even who are gay and who use their position within the church to protect each other and to promote each other.

00:17:33.000 And these guys have been ordaining each other for decades and consecrating each other for decades.

00:17:38.000 And it goes all the way back here in New York City to Cardinal Spellman.

00:17:42.000 Cardinal Spellman, everybody now, most historians regard Cardinal Spellman as a closeted homosexual.

00:17:50.000 I thought I read recently that they were even coming up with ways to denote who a good victim would be, like he wears a bigger cross than the other boys.

00:17:58.000 Well, that came out in Pittsburgh, the grand jury report.

00:18:01.000 One of the horrifying details was that this pedophile ring in Pittsburgh, that Cardinal Worrell, who's now the Cardinal of Washington, D.C., he was the bishop of Pittsburgh for about 18 years.

00:18:12.000 There was this pedophile ring in his diocese that he didn't really do very much about.

00:18:17.000 I mean, he kind of cast a blind eye towards.

00:18:20.000 And one of the awful things that that pedophile ring did was they would identify kids that, you know, that the members could have sex with.

00:18:27.000 And the way they would mark them off as having been groomed would be by giving them crosses. 0.63

00:18:32.000 And so if the other pedophiles saw them wearing a cross, they'd know that they could have sex with that child.

00:18:38.000 Unbelievable.

00:18:39.000 You know, if you had asked me about, and I'm new to Catholicism, so I'm no expert, but if you'd asked me about pedophile priests six months ago, I'd say, all right, yes, you're right, it's horrible.

00:18:49.000 But this was mostly in the 80s.

00:18:52.000 The problem's been fixed since then, and it's usually gays preying on pubescent boys. 1.00

00:18:58.000 It's not like they're going for toddlers or anything.

00:19:00.000 So it's actually a problem with gays in the church.

00:19:03.000 But in the past six months, now I'm saying, I'm realizing, no, no, no, the problem didn't go away.

00:19:08.000 In fact, it almost seems like it's bigger than ever.

00:19:11.000 Well, the media wants everybody to think that there's been a rash of six-year-olds and seven-year-olds who've been raped by priests, when the reality is that almost all of the cases involve male teens from the ages of 15 to 17.

00:19:26.000 70% of the cases in Pennsylvania that the grand jury looked at fell into that category.

00:19:31.000 And then overall, in 2002, there was, I think, a John Jay report, maybe it was a year or so later.

00:19:37.000 But in that report, the John Jay report established that 80% of the cases involved male teens between the ages of 15 and 17.

00:19:46.000 And so that's basically a problem of a homosexual priesthood. 0.98

00:19:53.000 Wilton Gregory, the bishop who of, I think he's in Atlanta, he once kind of let the cat out of the bag and said, you know, the priesthood in the 70s and 80s became a gay profession.

00:20:07.000 And the Catholic Church is living with the consequences of that.

00:20:10.000 If you turn the priesthood into a gay profession, you shouldn't be surprised when you have a massive problem with priests preying upon 15, 16, 17-year-old boys. 0.99

00:20:21.000 Well, hasn't that been a common fix for homosexuality? 1.00

00:20:25.000 They said, oh, well, you obviously can't do that disgusting act, so let's make you a priest. 1.00

00:20:28.000 It was seen as the cure for the longest time.

00:20:31.000 I don't know.

00:20:32.000 I think it's much more, I think these guys were much more cynical than that.

00:20:35.000 I think they saw it as a way of, you know, having their cake and eating it too.

00:20:40.000 And I think it goes back to the early part of the 20th century that, you know, a lot of these guys, in fact, the mentor of Cardinal Wuerl in Washington, D.C. is a man named John Wright.

00:20:52.000 He was the bishop of Pittsburgh, and he became a cardinal.

00:20:57.000 But he was a credibly accused pederist.

00:21:01.000 And he's also been widely accused of having turned his priest secretaries into catamites or boy toys.

00:21:09.000 And one of those who's been accused of that is Donald Wuerl.

00:21:13.000 And while there isn't slam-dunk evidence of this, if you talk to journalists about this, like Catholic journalists in the know, and you say to them, was Donald Wuerl the boy toy of John Wright?

00:21:28.000 A lot of them will say, yes, he was, but there isn't slam-dunk evidence for that.

00:21:32.000 But that was the widespread rumor.

00:21:34.000 So can we get a scope on this?

00:21:36.000 Because I need a layman's sort of look at it.

00:21:40.000 It wasn't just the 80s.

00:21:41.000 It's been going on nonstop since the beginning of the 20th century.

00:21:44.000 You think it was gays premeditating. 0.83

00:21:46.000 I'll go into this profession and I'll have easy prey.

00:21:48.000 Yeah.

00:21:50.000 But what did we discover in Pittsburgh?

00:21:52.000 Was it 1,000?

00:21:53.000 Oh, yeah, and that's a low-ball estimate.

00:21:56.000 In fact, I just happened to, I was in Harrisburg on the day the report was released, and I happened to be in this hotel on the outskirts of Harrisburg, and the abuse, many of the abuse victims were staying at the same hotel.

00:22:08.000 And I ran into it.

00:22:10.000 Were they at that same motel?

00:22:10.000 Why?

00:22:11.000 That's where the attorney general wanted to stash them so that they wouldn't be...

00:22:20.000 And so it wasn't the kind of place where the reporters would probably look.

00:22:23.000 So I think that was the appeal of it.

00:22:25.000 It was on the outskirts.

00:22:26.000 And it wasn't a, you know, like a four-star hotel or anything.

00:22:28.000 But this guy was out in the parking lot, and he was smoking very desperately.

00:22:33.000 And I remember looking at him and going, oh, he's one of the abuse victims from the press conference.

00:22:38.000 And he was a priest, actually.

00:22:40.000 And his story is horrific.

00:22:42.000 His story is actually that he lost his priesthood basically because all these guys knew that he had been raped by this Monsignor.

00:22:50.000 And therefore they knew that they could take a shot at him too.

00:22:53.000 And they would be constantly hitting on him.

00:22:56.000 And their attitude was, hey, you know, you're damaged goods anyways, who cares?

00:23:00.000 That was their attitude.

00:23:00.000 And he just could not live with that.

00:23:02.000 And he left the priesthood.

00:23:04.000 But at any rate, when we were talking out in the parking lot, he's smoking very desperately.

00:23:10.000 I said to him, you know, what's the number of victims here that the grand jury found?

00:23:15.000 And he said to me, he said, when we talked to the grand jurors, they said to us that the real number was closer to 10,000 than 1,000.

00:23:23.000 Over the span of 10,000?

00:23:24.000 Over 70 years.

00:23:26.000 70 years.

00:23:26.000 And that would be consistent with what everybody says is like the lifetime total of victims for a pet arrest or a pedophile.

00:23:38.000 These guys don't just abuse one or two or three kids.

00:23:42.000 They abuse tons of children.

00:23:43.000 They abuse like 60, 70, 80.

00:23:47.000 And that's why it's outrageous that the hierarchy didn't call the police on these guys and didn't do something very dramatic to protect their flock.

00:23:57.000 I mean, it's ridiculous.

00:23:58.000 Well, even the Pope seemed to take forever to issue a statement about all this.

00:24:02.000 Well, the Pope is part of the problem.

00:24:04.000 He's been protecting these cover-up artists and these, you know, he made the head of the Vatican Bank, the ecclesiastical head of the Vatican Bank, this guy named Monsignor Battista Rica, who had been found trapped in an elevator with a rent boy by firemen.

00:24:21.000 And this was established by the Italian journalist Sandro Magister, who put it in his article.

00:24:27.000 The Pope knew all about this guy's problems, and he still made him the ecclesiastical head of the Vatican Bank, and he's in that position to this day.

00:24:36.000 You know, I'm in the Knights of Columbus, and one of the things we do when we take our oaths is I will never disparage a priest, I'll always stand up for a priest, and I'll always stand up for the Pope, and I'll never criticize the Pope.

00:24:45.000 And it gets harder and harder on a daily basis not to criticize this Pope.

00:24:50.000 Well, I would point out to you that that code is not part of canon law.

00:24:54.000 You do have a right as a Catholic to address problems in the church, including problems posed by a pope.

00:25:01.000 And that's not contrary to the faith.

00:25:04.000 That's actually evidence of love of the faith and that you want to preserve the integrity of the faith.

00:25:09.000 Are you feeling discouraged by Catholicism?

00:25:11.000 Entirely?

00:25:14.000 I feel like going to the Presbyterian church near my house this Sunday.

00:25:17.000 Yeah, it's you know, we're obviously at the beginning of a very long struggle.

00:25:23.000 And it's, you know, this virus is going to take a long, long time to get out of the church's system.

00:25:29.000 But I think we're at the beginning of, you know, real changes.

00:25:33.000 And I think all these attorney generals who are coming in and investigating this, you know, what happened in Pennsylvania, and now we have all these states, a rash of states, Vermont, New York, Missouri, you know, they're all getting in on this.

00:25:45.000 And I'm hoping that actually the District of Columbia will get in on this and investigate Cardinal Wuerl and Colonel McCarrick.

00:25:52.000 Because the McCarrick and Wuerl, these two guys are complete imposters.

00:25:58.000 They're complete charlatans.

00:25:59.000 And they have Been cover-up artists.

00:26:01.000 I mean, McCarrick is a monster.

00:26:03.000 McCarrick raped an 11-year-old.

00:26:07.000 We don't even know how many people he's raped, but he preyed upon his seminarians.

00:26:12.000 We know there were at least two settlements reached by two dioceses in New Jersey because of seminarians that McCarrick had hit upon.

00:26:22.000 But the New York Times talked about this kid that at the age of 11, McCarrick started molesting.

00:26:29.000 And then they had a relationship that went on for years and years and years.

00:26:32.000 And he was just abusing him the whole time.

00:26:34.000 And then the incident that actually set the whole thing off was that this man in his 70s came forward and he said, when I was an altar boy and I was getting ready for Christmas Mass, I think it was.

00:26:48.000 He was in the sacristy at St. Patrick's Cathedral, I think.

00:26:50.000 I think it was St. Patrick's Cathedral.

00:26:52.000 And he said that in this setting, McCarrick was there and this kid, who was then 16, was, I guess, had taken off his clothes or something like that.

00:27:02.000 And McCarrick grabbed his penis in the sacristy.

00:27:05.000 And that was the abuse that forced the Vatican to remove McCarrick from active ministry.

00:27:12.000 And now McCarrick is facing a canonical trial where he might actually be laicized.

00:27:17.000 What does that mean, laicized?

00:27:18.000 Which would mean that he's not, you know, not only is he not a cardinal, he's not even a priest.

00:27:26.000 How about jailed?

00:27:27.000 I don't want to.

00:27:28.000 Ribbons are stripped from your uniform.

00:27:30.000 I know, it's outrageous because I found actually, I was down in D.C. and I was doing on-the-ground reporting and I got a great tip from a priest.

00:27:40.000 A source said to me, I know where this guy McCarrick is being sheltered, because we know that he's supposedly under house arrest or not house arrest, but basically he's supposed to be confined to prayer and penance within a house.

00:27:52.000 Well, guess who he's living with?

00:27:54.000 He's living with World's Auxiliary Bishop, Bishop Mario Dorsonville.

00:27:59.000 And he's living in this $2.1 million mansion right across the street from American University Law School, about three blocks from like a children's academy.

00:28:08.000 And he's up on the second floor, it appears.

00:28:12.000 He has like 24-7 police protection.

00:28:14.000 God knows how much that costs the faithful each month, you know?

00:28:17.000 And it's, yeah, as you're saying, it's like, what the heck?

00:28:20.000 He gets to spend his remaining years on earth in a $2.1 million mansion.

00:28:26.000 I don't even like the idea of settlements in general.

00:28:29.000 I mean, obviously there's copyright violations and other areas of law, but to get financial remuneration for some sort of sexual attack is just expensive prostitution, in a sense.

00:28:39.000 These guys committed crimes.

00:28:41.000 Like if someone is, if a kid is shot, you can't just pay the parents $10 million and now you're just a human hunter with a big budget.

00:28:41.000 Oh, yeah.

00:28:49.000 And yeah, and you don't ask the parents, oh, do you think we should call this, let's call the police on this?

00:28:53.000 Or is it up to you guys?

00:28:54.000 Up to you guys.

00:28:55.000 It's off the books.

00:28:56.000 It's not up to the parents.

00:28:57.000 There was a murder in our society.

00:28:59.000 That person committed a crime.

00:29:00.000 How bad can your thinking be when it's like, well, it's up to the victim whether or not we call the cops.

00:29:05.000 Sorry, that's not the society I want to move.

00:29:06.000 It's like, what about the common good?

00:29:08.000 Like, what about the next kid?

00:29:09.000 Yeah.

00:29:10.000 Well, that's what you're doing.

00:29:11.000 You're justifying this happening again.

00:29:12.000 And it's not coming out of their pockets.

00:29:14.000 They don't have $10 million.

00:29:15.000 And these guys are so pathetic when I ask them about why, you know, why did you protect these guys?

00:29:20.000 And they'll say, oh, well, that's what the psychiatrist told us.

00:29:22.000 You know, like, I thought the wisdom of the church was higher than psychiatry.

00:29:26.000 And you don't even have to have wisdom.

00:29:27.000 You just have to have common sense.

00:29:29.000 Right.

00:29:29.000 And also, I was actually talking to this guy, this Jesuit priest.

00:29:33.000 The Jesuits are just hopeless.

00:29:35.000 They've become just utterly mindless and dangerously mindless.

00:29:39.000 But this guy said, oh, well, I blame this on psychiatry.

00:29:43.000 And I said, what?

00:29:46.000 He's like, well, in the 70s, they just said we should return them to ministry.

00:29:49.000 And I said, well, in the 70s, if you molest, you didn't have the right to molest a 15-year-old.

00:29:55.000 There was no law in the country that said it's okay for a priest to molest a 15-year-old.

00:29:58.000 So what are you even talking about?

00:30:00.000 No one is above the law.

00:30:00.000 So sorry to keep pulling you back to this, but we're looking at 10,000, and it's going back to the early 19th century, or 20th century.

00:30:08.000 If we were to graft this, would it be going up?

00:30:12.000 Would it be going steady?

00:30:13.000 Is it going down?

00:30:14.000 Oh, It's going vertical and it's because of the very active decision to bring tons and tons of homosexuals into the priesthood. 1.00

00:30:23.000 That has never happened before on this scale.

00:30:26.000 That happened, it really accelerated, I would say, in the 1960s, but I'm sure it started, you know, it had to have started in the 20s and the 30s.

00:30:37.000 And You disagree that that was done as a way to cure homosexuality?

00:30:41.000 You think it was a big grand plan to set up a rape camp? 0.97

00:30:47.000 Well, it was a way for these guys to lead a covert homosexual lifestyle while living like Borgia princes and then also having a pulpit from which to preach left-wing politics. 0.75

00:31:01.000 And so it was a way to kind of satisfy all of their interests.

00:31:05.000 And Cardinal Spellman allegedly made a great comment or made a very illuminating remark about what these guys are thinking.

00:31:13.000 And one of his friends once said to Cardinal Spellman, because Spellman was rumored to have had a gay affair with Roy Cohen.

00:31:21.000 That's an allegation.

00:31:22.000 And there actually was a book, a biography done on Spelman by a Wall Street Journal reporter.

00:31:27.000 And he had about like 14 pages on the homosexuality of Spelman.

00:31:30.000 And the Archdiocese of New York came down on Simon & Schuster like a house of bricks.

00:31:35.000 And they said, take all that material out.

00:31:36.000 And he had to reduce it down to like three paragraphs or four paragraphs.

00:31:39.000 But anyway, in that book, one of the stories, I believe it was from that book or from another book, was that a friend of Spelman said to him, aren't you afraid that your double life is going to shock the hell out of the faithful?

00:31:52.000 And, you know, if somebody said, hey, because he would hold these, Spelman was notorious allegedly for holding these parties with Broadway boys.

00:32:00.000 Like he had a thing for Broadway boys.

00:32:02.000 And so he'd have these parties where all these Broadway kids were invited.

00:32:07.000 And I guess at one of these parties, a friend said to Spelman, aren't you worried that you're going to be exposed?

00:32:12.000 And Spelman very coolly said to the guy, who would believe that?

00:32:16.000 Wow.

00:32:17.000 So that's their mindset.

00:32:19.000 They knew they could take the faithful for a ride because they knew they could exploit the docility of the faithful and the assumption.

00:32:25.000 They could exploit the assumption that your priest is not going to be that much of a charlatan.

00:32:30.000 You know, it's like when I think about why people trust priests and why they never want anybody to criticize a priest.

00:32:36.000 It's very similar to why is it that juries never find doctors guilty or rarely find doctors guilty of like criminal negligence.

00:32:45.000 And the psychological reason for that is, is that nobody wants to think that their doctor is going to hurt them.

00:32:51.000 Right.

00:32:52.000 And we prefer, human beings tend to prefer the fantasy, a comfortable fantasy to a very scary reality.

00:33:00.000 You know, Islam has a major problem with pedophilia.

00:33:03.000 And we see this in Britain, especially with Pakistanis preying on young girls. 1.00

00:33:08.000 And we've just discovered that the Catholic Church never really took a break from the same issue.

00:33:13.000 But the difference is, in Islam...

00:33:16.000 and the the the even the moderate muslims in britain they want to sweep it under the rug and stay in denial but the the sense i'm getting from a lot of catholics now since the pittsburgh thing by the way that 10,000 that was oh well it's yeah the highball figure is 10,000 the lowball figure is 1,000.

00:33:33.000 And that was just in the area of Pittsburgh?

00:33:35.000 No, that was the sixth diocese that were under investigation.

00:33:40.000 But that's not even the whole state.

00:33:42.000 That's the sixth diocese in the state of Pennsylvania for 70 years.

00:33:46.000 And we don't even know, like, according to the Attorney General, since he released the report, his office has been flooded with calls.

00:33:54.000 So, you know, I'm sure the numbers are actually much, much higher.

00:33:57.000 Climbing and climbing.

00:34:01.000 But what I'm sensing from Catholics is real anger here, not denial.

00:34:05.000 Not anymore.

00:34:05.000 No, yeah.

00:34:06.000 Now they're mad.

00:34:07.000 Yeah.

00:34:07.000 I've never seen lay anger as acute as it is right now because people are just tired of the lies.

00:34:14.000 They're tired of the denials.

00:34:16.000 Because the bishops acted like, oh, this problem was solved in 2002 with the Dallas Charter.

00:34:22.000 Yeah, that's what I believe.

00:34:24.000 And the media kind of contributed to that myth making.

00:34:28.000 And the truth is that that was just a zero kind of liability policy.

00:34:33.000 It wasn't a zero tolerance policy.

00:34:35.000 They were looking to minimize liability, but they weren't serious about removing this gay mafia from the church because that's really, you have to remove the gay mafia from the church in order to ensure that 15, 16, and 17-year-old boys are not going to be abused in the Catholic Church henceforth. 0.86

00:34:53.000 Well, when they get to a level where they're so entrenched that removing them becomes impossible.

00:34:59.000 Yeah, because yeah, you know, the people who present themselves as the solvers of the problem are the creators of the problem.

00:35:05.000 So of course they're not going to solve a problem that they themselves created.

00:35:07.000 Yeah, it's like fixing corruption in North Korea.

00:35:10.000 Are you going to take out the few bad generals?

00:35:12.000 Yeah.

00:35:14.000 Yeah, you'd have to basically decapitate the leadership of the Catholic Church and just find some holy priest, like, you know, some guy.

00:35:21.000 Good guy.

00:35:22.000 Some 24-year-old guy and say, hey, you're going to be a bishop.

00:35:25.000 And nobody can, you know, but that's obviously not going to happen.

00:35:30.000 So in the absence of that, what do you have?

00:35:32.000 You have the attorney generals.

00:35:33.000 You have the secular society coming in and saying, well, since you guys can't police yourselves, we're going to police you.

00:35:39.000 And a lot of lay Catholics look at that and go, fine.

00:35:42.000 Good.

00:35:42.000 Yeah, that works.

00:35:43.000 I mean, that's what societies do.

00:35:44.000 No one is above the law.

00:35:46.000 I don't care if you have your own Sharia law or your Hasidic law or your Catholic law.

00:35:51.000 None of that is above.

00:35:52.000 We don't want kids getting raped and molested.

00:35:55.000 Now, you've gone to these guys' homes, correct?

00:35:58.000 Well, I knew where McCarrick was, and so I just, for the hell of it, to see if I could get an interview with McCarrick, I knocked on the door of this property, 4110 Warren Street, Northwest Washington.

00:36:12.000 And I go to the door, and I knock on the door, I ring the doorbell, and this housekeeper comes out, and it takes her forever to open the door. 0.99

00:36:19.000 And I say, I'd like to talk to Cardinal McCarrick.

00:36:23.000 And she can't really speak English.

00:36:25.000 She kind of speaks broken English, and we're not really understanding each other.

00:36:28.000 And there's sort of a confusion.

00:36:30.000 And she actually thought it might be like a visiting priest or something.

00:36:33.000 And I didn't really hear what she had to say.

00:36:36.000 I was kind of thrown too, because it's like, you know, kind of an unusual journalistic, you know.

00:36:43.000 It's confrontational.

00:36:44.000 Yeah, it's, you know, and the guy's a rapist, you know.

00:36:47.000 So actually one of my concerns, though, was if I had gone upstairs and confronted McCarrick, I was afraid that he might shoot me or something, you know.

00:36:55.000 Yeah.

00:36:55.000 So I, but at any rate, she kind of lets, she lets me in.

00:36:59.000 I mean, so I didn't break in or anything.

00:37:00.000 She let me in.

00:37:02.000 And I wanted to find out, first of all, I wanted to find out if my source was right, if this really was an Archdiocesan safe house.

00:37:08.000 And when I walked around the first floor and I saw the portrait of Cardinal Donald World, the successor of McCarrick, I knew it was an Archdiocesan safe house and that my source was correct.

00:37:18.000 And so then, you know, at that point, she kind of understands that I'm there for, you know, for journalistic purposes and trouble.

00:37:27.000 She threatens to call the police.

00:37:29.000 And one of the commenters on the, when I put up this video on Facebook, one of the commenters said, yeah, she was going to call the police and you could have called ICE.

00:37:41.000 Yeah, call the police.

00:37:42.000 I mean, you question Peter's file.

00:37:45.000 But one of the reasons why they probably didn't want to call the police is that if the police had come, they would have had to identify the occupants of the house and they would have had to identify McCarrick upstairs.

00:37:55.000 And he was up there.

00:37:56.000 There was no question.

00:37:57.000 In fact, I called my source the next day and I said, he was up there.

00:37:59.000 And my source said very quietly, yeah, he was there.

00:38:02.000 So you're optimistic about all this being fixed?

00:38:06.000 Well, ultimately, you know, Jesus Christ, who I believe is the founder of the Catholic Church, said the gates of hell will not prevail against the church.

00:38:14.000 And so I think I think we know how the story ends.

00:38:16.000 You know, we know that the church will survive, and we know, I believe, that the church is the ark of salvation for mankind that God intended.

00:38:25.000 And so I think, you know, God will ensure that the church doesn't dissolve.

00:38:30.000 But it's going to take a long time for the church to get back to holiness and strength.

00:38:39.000 The church in a way needs a kind of trumpian figure to make allism great again.

00:38:43.000 Drain the swamp.

00:38:46.000 And so that's going to come from the laity more than from the clergy because the clergy is so hopelessly compromised.

00:38:54.000 Right.

00:38:55.000 All right, last question.

00:38:57.000 Let's take 100 members of the church, from priesthood up to the top brass.

00:39:03.000 And maybe that's a deceiving analogy to do.

00:39:06.000 But what percentage out of 100 are corrupt, are linked to the gay mafia, are potential predators? 0.86

00:39:16.000 I would say that in terms of the gay mafia, you have people who are active participants in the gay mafia, which would be bishops and cardinals who are living active double lives. 0.94

00:39:26.000 And that percentage, I'm not sure.

00:39:29.000 I would guess it's probably in the probably 40% range.

00:39:33.000 But then you have another group of people who are what I'd call enablers of the gay mafia. 1.00

00:39:37.000 And these are bishops who are too timid to stand up to the game mafia.

00:39:41.000 It's just as bad.

00:39:43.000 Maybe not quite as bad, but it's definitely up there.

00:39:46.000 Yeah, or they might philosophically be very liberal and think it's, you know, who am I to judge?

00:39:50.000 Kind of thinking, you know, the Pope Francis, who am I to judge, you know, that might be the mindset.

00:39:54.000 So that percentage is probably pretty significant.

00:39:56.000 So if you take both groups together, I'm guessing that would be like 60 to 70 percent of the entire episcopate.

00:40:03.000 So basically you have a minority of bishops and cardinals who are willing to stand up to these creeps.

00:40:10.000 And they, one of the things that bishops always learn, though, is that you always stay in your own lane.

00:40:15.000 You never criticize other bishops.

00:40:17.000 And so McCarrick, they all knew that McCarrick was a predator.

00:40:20.000 They all knew that he was hitting on seminarians.

00:40:22.000 At the very least, they knew that because everybody knew that.

00:40:24.000 Every seminarian at the North American College of Rome knew that McCarrick was a predator.

00:40:30.000 And so when Cardinal World says, oh, I just learned about this through the papers, it's total, it's 100% BS.

00:40:36.000 Everybody knew.

00:40:38.000 And they didn't do anything about it because the bishops have this sort of mutual non-aggression pact where, you know, I won't talk about your sins if you don't talk about mine.

00:40:48.000 And I won't, you know.

00:40:50.000 So it's that kind of corruption that allowed for a McCarrick, for a monster like Macarak to exist for so long. 0.95

00:40:57.000 Well, I'm not sure what to take away.

00:40:58.000 I mean, we're out of time, but am I optimistic about this or am I pessimistic?

00:41:03.000 I don't know.

00:41:04.000 What about you're optimistic, but you talk about centuries.

00:41:07.000 Yeah, it won't be in our lifetime.

00:41:09.000 I mean, we'll see serious problems within our lifetime.

00:41:14.000 There will be incremental progress, and maybe there'll be some big victories.

00:41:18.000 I'm hoping that Donald Ruhr will go down, and I think some of these other cover-up artists should go down, and maybe that'll happen.

00:41:24.000 I don't know.

00:41:25.000 We are seeing a kind of cascading anger, though, which might actually produce a new crop of bishops.

00:41:33.000 But I'm not holding my breath as to a kind of sweeping reform in my lifetime.

00:41:38.000 But I think in 100 years from now, I think Catholics will look back at this moment and say, okay, this was the beginning of serious reform right now.

00:41:47.000 Right.

00:41:47.000 That was the end of the Dark Ages.

00:41:49.000 Well, I think I might try out the Presbyterian Church down the street just to see what it's like.

00:41:53.000 It looks nice over there.

00:41:54.000 But my guess is those guys are gay.

00:41:56.000 A lot of the Presbyterian ministers are gay too.

00:41:58.000 I mean, Presbyterianism is completely wedded to the gay rights movement. 0.72

00:42:04.000 And so, you know, if you go to any liberal Protestant denomination, it's going to have the same gay mafia problems as the church. 0.98

00:42:11.000 What does that leave us?

00:42:12.000 Mormons? 0.55

00:42:13.000 Are you going to be Amish?

00:42:14.000 I don't want to lose the mustache.

00:42:17.000 Well, actually, a lot of conservative Catholics who are freaking out over this, some of them will say, well, maybe I should become an Eastern Orthodox, you know, because at least those guys are straight, you know.

00:42:27.000 Right.

00:42:28.000 Because they can marry, unless they're a bishop.

00:42:32.000 And so most of the Eastern Orthodox priests, I think they tend to be heterosexual, not homosexual.

00:42:38.000 All right.

00:42:38.000 Well, I got a Wikipedia or Eastern Orthodox, and I'm going to give it a whirl.

00:42:42.000 George, thanks for coming on the show.

00:42:43.000 Always a pleasure talking to you.

00:42:44.000 Thank you for having me.

Get Off My Lawn - Gavin McInnes - September 11, 2018

Ep 182 | Religion in Peril: Catholicism and Islam | Get Off My Lawn

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