Get Off My Lawn - Gavin McInnes - Get Off My Lawn #43 | Fix Be In

00:00:21.000 From New York, get off my lawn.

00:00:26.000 Kevin McGuinness.

00:00:29.000 She was 17 and she was far from in-between.

00:00:33.000 It was summertime in northern Michigan.

00:00:41.000 That's a jam.

00:00:44.000 Drinking whiskey out the bottle, singing sweet home, Alabama, all summer long.

00:00:51.000 Alabama, bumpa dame fame. 0.95

00:00:53.000 I remember Kid Rock in the early 90s.

00:00:56.000 He was a rapper who had kooky hair, like a vanilla ice kind of guy, but a little more badass.

00:01:04.000 Front page of the post, Fix Be In, one of their least, least witty puns.

00:01:10.000 And it's all about the anti-Trump agent, Peter Stork, who is behind all this Russia crap.

00:01:16.000 And he hates Trump, loves Hillary, and was running the show over there, running the attack on Trump and letting Hillary off the hook.

00:01:25.000 It must suck to be a liberal these days, right?

00:01:27.000 Every time they have a smoking gun, it turns out to be their gun, and they're the perp in it.

00:01:34.000 But I want to focus today on this move that Trump did to give the federal parks, monuments, I think Obama calls them, back to the states.

00:01:45.000 And I live with a lot of stupid New York liberals, tattooists especially.

00:01:52.000 This guy that did my tattoos, he was screaming about this, saying, I want to punch Trump in the face.

00:01:58.000 Free tattoos for anyone who punches Trump in the face, which is what?

00:02:03.000 And I thought, I understand that this looks bad to you, but surely we're getting a little more curious about the news these days.

00:02:13.000 After the 500th fake news story, it probably isn't as simple as, this was a beautiful park like the Grand Canyon, Trump's privatizing it, and now it's going to be strip malls and fracking and oil shooting everywhere, and it's going to be destroyed.

00:02:31.000 The land's no longer preserved.

00:02:34.000 Well, that's not the case.

00:02:36.000 Nothing is better for land than ranchers.

00:02:40.000 The government sucks at land.

00:02:42.000 You want to see what the government does with their land?

00:02:44.000 You want to see what the government does with their forests?

00:02:46.000 Check out LA right now.

00:02:49.000 New Los Angeles wildfire is threatening the Getty Center.

00:02:51.000 It looks like hell.

00:02:53.000 It looks like that hieronymous Bosch artist guy.

00:02:58.000 Look at this.

00:03:00.000 And we're not talking miles and miles away.

00:03:04.000 This is right on the highway.

00:03:05.000 It looks like they're driving through hell.

00:03:08.000 There's four major fires in LA right now, and they're raging.

00:03:13.000 And I said to Brian Hyde, he's a big ranching commentator, works at Who's Next, and he's been following the Bundy thing forever.

00:03:21.000 And I said, can this be blamed on the government?

00:03:23.000 And he said, yes, sort of.

00:03:25.000 He said, well, he didn't say yes, sort of.

00:03:27.000 His exact quote was, I spoke to a state legislator recently who told me that the plan with the forestry, with all forestry in the country, is just let it burn because we're harming the environment and climate change.

00:03:37.000 I know that's pretty ambiguous of an accusation, but that's the mentality.

00:03:42.000 So when you hear that Trump is giving land back to the state and taking it away from the federal government, he's taking it away from someone who's worse at land than whoever is getting it now.

00:03:52.000 And it's still government land.

00:03:54.000 Now, why do I care so much about this?

00:03:56.000 Because of this.

00:03:58.000 The cheeseburger.

00:04:00.000 Now, I've had a few bites of this, so it's not looking that beautiful.

00:04:03.000 But I think the cheeseburger is one of the most wonderful creations in the world.

00:04:08.000 I think it proves that the West is the best.

00:04:10.000 It beats every other sandwich.

00:04:12.000 I think tacos are stupid.

00:04:13.000 I've done many videos about this in the past.

00:04:15.000 It's a grab, grab it as you go food, where you can just, you don't even have to stop walking.

00:04:20.000 Just keep running, eating your cheeseburger.

00:04:22.000 You know, the French and the Italians like to sit down for a nine-hour meal and then have a siesta.

00:04:27.000 That's not us.

00:04:28.000 We're movers and shakers, and I love the cheeseburger.

00:04:30.000 And what brings us to the cheeseburger?

00:04:32.000 Ranchers.

00:04:33.000 And who benefits from having land not tied up in government bureaucracy?

00:04:38.000 We do.

00:04:39.000 Ranchers do.

00:04:40.000 Cheeseburgers do.

00:04:41.000 So I feel very strongly about this, giving the monuments back.

00:04:46.000 And I want to get the full story because as urbanites, we tend to just see them as a bunch of stupid redneck cowboys. 0.97

00:04:51.000 And of course, anyone south of the Mason-Dixon line or anyone in Fly River Country or anyone in a cowboy hat couldn't possibly be as sophisticated as us New Yorkers, as us coastal people in LA, as us tattoo artists and creative types.

00:05:06.000 We know the environment way better than someone who's been there for hundreds of years.

00:05:11.000 Sorry, 100 years.

00:05:13.000 In the case of the Bundies. 0.68

00:05:14.000 So first we're going to talk to Angie Bundy.

00:05:16.000 Ryan Bundy, he's a guy.

00:05:18.000 He had an accident as a kid.

00:05:19.000 His face is kind of sloped.

00:05:21.000 He just got out of jail on bail.

00:05:22.000 They've been sitting there for, I think, two years now in jail, and they just got out.

00:05:27.000 Clivin Bundy refused because he have an ankle bracelet and he says no.

00:05:32.000 We're also going to talk to Carrie Stadheim.

00:05:34.000 Now, she's the editor of the Tri-State Livestock News, a newspaper you'll never see and you couldn't care less about, but it is sort of the heart.

00:05:42.000 It is the New York Times of ranchers, ranchers media.

00:05:48.000 And then, of course, Brian Hyde, the guy I just talked about, he's been close with the Bundies for over a decade, and he's been following this very closely.

00:05:55.000 I mean, the Bundies, this LA fire, Trump giving it back, this cheeseburger, they're all related.

00:06:01.000 And I think the big thing that brings them together is self-hatred.

00:06:05.000 We don't like cowboys anymore.

00:06:07.000 We don't like the people who made America.

00:06:10.000 And at the same time, while we poo-poo these heroes, these guys that make our country great, the guys that feed us, at the same time, we sort of hand over our wrists to the government and say, handcuff me.

00:06:23.000 You guys know what's better.

00:06:24.000 Like a dog laying on its back, totally subdued, to the Alpha White House.

00:06:29.000 Well, I'm on the Side of the Cowboys.

00:06:32.000 And I believe at the end of this episode, this exclusive, all-encompassing, be-all and end-all episode, all about ranchers and forestry and land grabs and federal land, I think you'll feel the same way.

00:06:48.000 Angie, how are you doing?

00:06:51.000 I'm great.

00:06:51.000 How are you?

00:06:52.000 I'm good.

00:06:53.000 Now, with Trump declaring that the federal land should be going back to the individual states, city folk, well, the liberals are freaking out.

00:07:02.000 They say, oh, he's turning monuments into shopping malls.

00:07:05.000 But I don't trust my fellow city folk.

00:07:08.000 And it got everyone talking about the Bundies and a sort of, where are they now?

00:07:13.000 How is everything going over there?

00:07:14.000 Who's in jail?

00:07:15.000 Who's out of jail?

00:07:16.000 Who's facing charges?

00:07:19.000 We're all still facing charges.

00:07:21.000 Well, they have run some through and some have been acquitted.

00:07:28.000 But I will say that we are making progress to where they've let them all out on bail, which has not happened until now.

00:07:36.000 So they've been sitting in jail up until some of them, just like yesterday.

00:07:41.000 Oh, really?

00:07:41.000 So the fact we are making progress.

00:07:44.000 Who got out on bail yesterday?

00:07:47.000 Joe O'Shaughnessy did.

00:07:50.000 My two brother-in-laws got out two days ago.

00:07:54.000 My husband got out about three weeks ago, and Ammon got out last week.

00:07:57.000 So we are making major progress.

00:08:01.000 Now, just to get everyone up to date, this is all really based on the government saying that the Bundies were not paying their grass tax.

00:08:10.000 Right.

00:08:12.000 And I've heard rumors that you tried to pay, and they were prevented.

00:08:17.000 Well, I'll tell you this right now.

00:08:19.000 They came up with a really large figure and put that in the media.

00:08:23.000 It did come out in court last week that what we supposedly owed was more like $8,000 instead of millions.

00:08:31.000 That's a bit of a discrepancy.

00:08:34.000 It was like $70,000 $7,500 or something close to that.

00:08:43.000 So that was just basically something to make us look like, you know, really bad.

00:08:49.000 My father-in-law has maintained the whole time that the federal government, according to the Constitution, should not own vast tracts of land.

00:08:57.000 And that is one reason why I understand when you city dwellers don't understand what we're dealing with out west.

00:09:05.000 Because you guys don't have them maintaining and controlling large spans of your state.

00:09:12.000 Yeah.

00:09:12.000 But they have claimed most of Nevada.

00:09:17.000 So basically, my father maintained all the land belongs to the state of Nevada.

00:09:22.000 So we're trying to pay our grazing fees or taxes to the state or the county.

00:09:30.000 And besides the fact that this is, you know, another thing that a lot of the city people don't understand is we don't own 160 acres that are private.

00:09:44.000 We run cattle on a way bigger portion than that.

00:09:49.000 And that is through water rights and grazing rights.

00:09:53.000 So we don't own the land, but we own the forage and we own the water.

00:09:59.000 So, you know, it's kind of odd.

00:10:01.000 And then the rest of it is public ground.

00:10:03.000 Okay, but who owns that?

00:10:05.000 And we claim that the state or the county, Clark County owns that.

00:10:10.000 And so, but those are real.

00:10:13.000 I mean, those grazing rights and those water are real.

00:10:15.000 You can buy them.

00:10:16.000 You can sell them.

00:10:17.000 You can inherit them. 0.52

00:10:17.000 You can trade them just like your house deeds. 0.52

00:10:20.000 So to just have them come in and say, oh, they're ours now, you know, my father-in-law was like, no, no, they're not.

00:10:27.000 No, you've had them for hundreds of years.

00:10:30.000 We have.

00:10:30.000 We've had them over 100 years.

00:10:32.000 And that's another thing a lot of people get confused on.

00:10:35.000 They look through the records and they're like, oh, no, it doesn't show Bundy's owning this.

00:10:38.000 This actually was inherited through Clevin's mother, who's Jensen and Levitt.

00:10:43.000 So if you look on those records, it's not going to say Bundy.

00:10:46.000 It's going to say Jensen and Levitt.

00:10:48.000 Well, look, as an outsider, I go, who are the two warring factions here?

00:10:52.000 Cowboys and the government?

00:10:55.000 Okay, what's the government claiming that they're missing?

00:10:58.000 Well, some of the cows that the Cowboys had ate government grass.

00:11:02.000 And you go, I didn't know grass was so important to you, White House.

00:11:05.000 I didn't know you were so worried about your grass.

00:11:09.000 Well, there's no grass out here on this range either.

00:11:12.000 There's no grass.

00:11:13.000 This is like the barren desert.

00:11:14.000 They actually live on a lot of the scrub brush.

00:11:17.000 Anyway, I could go into all kinds of things.

00:11:20.000 Another thing is that cattle actually replenish that grass.

00:11:23.000 If there's grass there, a cow is going to come up. 0.60

00:11:26.000 She's going to eat the top port. 1.00

00:11:27.000 She's mowing it, is what she's doing. 0.92

00:11:29.000 A horse is a little different.

00:11:31.000 A horse will grab it by the roots a lot of the time, but a cow won't.

00:11:34.000 A cow will grab it and she'll eat the top off, which actually encourages it to grow. 0.98

00:11:39.000 Well, yeah, every time the federal government totally takes over this land, it falls apart.

00:11:44.000 The only time this land thrives is when ranchers are on it.

00:11:49.000 Well, because how would it benefit us to ruin our range?

00:11:55.000 It doesn't.

00:11:55.000 We have to maintain the waters.

00:11:57.000 We have to maintain the forage.

00:11:59.000 Otherwise, we lose money.

00:12:01.000 I will say this, and this was before I married into the family.

00:12:06.000 We used to camp a lot, you know, growing up.

00:12:09.000 And when the federal government would come in and take over it, they would ruin it.

00:12:12.000 I don't mean to be rude.

00:12:13.000 They don't know how to take care of it.

00:12:15.000 And they'd say, it's kind of like there was this really beautiful piece of property here.

00:12:21.000 And all of a sudden, they point at it and say, look, we're going to make this monument.

00:12:25.000 And then it was ruined.

00:12:26.000 You'd get a million people in there.

00:12:28.000 The cows were kicked off.

00:12:29.000 And no longer were we able to ever go and enjoy it because then it was ruined.

00:12:34.000 I don't, you know, I'm not against people being out there.

00:12:36.000 I mean, we're all for that.

00:12:38.000 But it just seems like once they took over, then, you know, it went downhill from there.

00:12:45.000 They would come in and they would ruin the springs. 0.71

00:12:48.000 You know, they would try to fence around them and tap them and make them into these.

00:12:51.000 And it was like, you know, that was a beautiful spring.

00:12:53.000 You didn't need to do that.

00:12:54.000 Yeah.

00:12:54.000 You know?

00:12:55.000 Yeah.

00:12:56.000 Honestly, we're the true conservationalists because we have to maintain That property, otherwise, we don't earn a living.

00:13:03.000 It seems perfectly logical to me.

00:13:05.000 I don't understand why there's this adoration for the government and this disdain for the ranch.

00:13:15.000 You know, it's called communism.

00:13:18.000 If you think that they should own everything, then that's where you go to a communist company.

00:13:26.000 No, thank you.

00:13:27.000 If there are people working the land, then they're going to take care of it.

00:13:30.000 Yep, it's so true, and we've seen it again and again.

00:13:33.000 Angie, we're out of time, but thank you so much for taking time out of your busy day to talk to us.

00:13:38.000 Well, thanks for having me on.

00:13:39.000 I appreciate it.

00:13:40.000 And how many kids you have?

00:13:42.000 Eight kids?

00:13:43.000 I have eight kids.

00:13:44.000 And you know what?

00:13:45.000 One of them found a recorder this morning.

00:13:47.000 I try to keep those hidden.

00:13:48.000 So it was really tough around here.

00:13:50.000 Anyway, you know those little recorders they play at school?

00:13:53.000 We try to hide those.

00:13:54.000 Yeah, they're so shrill.

00:13:55.000 They were playing it really loud.

00:13:56.000 They make your eardrums rattle.

00:13:58.000 All right.

00:13:58.000 Thanks, Sanchez.

00:13:59.000 Thanks for coming on the show.

00:14:00.000 Thank you.

00:14:01.000 Bye-bye.

00:14:01.000 Thank you.

00:14:03.000 While we were trying different things, and we were smoking funny things.

00:14:08.000 Making love our brother late to our favorite song.

00:14:11.000 Carrie, are you there?

00:14:13.000 I believe so.

00:14:14.000 Am I?

00:14:15.000 Yes.

00:14:16.000 You look great.

00:14:16.000 You sound great.

00:14:17.000 Everything is good over there.

00:14:19.000 Now, where are you?

00:14:19.000 You're in Utah?

00:14:21.000 No, no, no.

00:14:22.000 No, Tri-State Livestock News is located in western South Dakota.

00:14:26.000 Uh-huh.

00:14:27.000 Uh-huh.

00:14:27.000 Yep.

00:14:28.000 So we're Bellefource, South Dakota.

00:14:30.000 We're actually very near Wyoming, just within a few miles of the Wyoming border and not far from Montana.

00:14:36.000 Okay, well, here in New York City, when we learned that Trump was giving these monuments back to the states they are in, the general understanding from liberal New Yorkers is that there's going to be shopping malls all over the place and there's going to be fracking and they're all going to be destroyed and he no longer wants to preserve nature.

00:14:56.000 So there'll be chipbags and old tires everywhere.

00:14:58.000 Is that what happened?

00:15:00.000 Well, I think people need to understand that these lands are federal lands.

00:15:04.000 They're still federal lands.

00:15:05.000 They just don't have the monument designation on them.

00:15:08.000 So they're still going to be managed just like federal lands are all across the West.

00:15:11.000 They still have, if it's BLM land, they still have a BLM person overseeing them.

00:15:16.000 If it's Forest Service land, they still have a ranger overseeing them.

00:15:19.000 I mean, there's still, every rule that applies to federal lands still applies to these lands.

00:15:24.000 So they're not privatized?

00:15:26.000 Correct.

00:15:27.000 So what's all the hullabaloo about?

00:15:30.000 Well, monument designation, you know, puts extra, what they call protections on the land, but really sometimes what happens is it's meant to protect the land, but it doesn't always do what it's meant to do.

00:15:42.000 And a lot of times the hands-off approach isn't necessarily the best way to manage land.

00:15:49.000 Right.

00:15:49.000 So what ends up happening with extra quote-unquote protections is that the grass gets overgrown, you know, trees get overgrown, terrible fire hazards, you know, fires come through that are just completely uncontrollable, that kind of thing.

00:16:04.000 Not to mention communities dry up and that sort of thing when grazing and logging become less and less available.

00:16:12.000 So really what hopefully will happen with these shrinking of these monuments is the land will still be federal lands, it'll still be protected by the federal government, but multiple use will be able to be implemented a little bit more.

00:16:25.000 People will still, the public can still use these lands.

00:16:29.000 Actually, they should be more accessible to the public than they were under the monument designation.

00:16:34.000 So really in a lot of ways, I feel like environmentalists or hikers or rock hounds, that kind of thing, should be happy with this announcement because they should have better access to the land than they did before.

00:16:46.000 It seems logical to me.

00:16:47.000 There's a guy, Patrick Moore.

00:16:48.000 He started a Greenpeace or something.

00:16:50.000 He's since abandoned them.

00:16:52.000 And he says controversial, counterintuitive things like, if you want more forests, buy more wood.

00:16:59.000 He said, the best thing for a forest is for people to use paper and wood to make it viable.

00:17:04.000 And then you look over in Zimbabwe, to choose a crazy example, and Mugabe's livestock, wildlife, was all dying, elephants starving to death, lions dying.

00:17:14.000 And then he just gave up and said, all right, well, let's privatize it.

00:17:17.000 And all of a sudden, the game hunters had an incentive, and now wildlife is thriving all over Zimbabwe.

00:17:23.000 Right, right.

00:17:24.000 Management is always a good idea.

00:17:27.000 Good, you know, responsible management is just important.

00:17:31.000 You know, we've seen the same thing with prairie dogs in our area.

00:17:34.000 They're environmentalists from the coast that really don't understand what's going on here.

00:17:40.000 They want to protect them.

00:17:41.000 Well, they're actually a rodent and they destroy land.

00:17:44.000 And again, with their quote-unquote protections, is they just, they don't manage them, so they overgrow and there isn't enough food for all of them.

00:17:53.000 And they start starving and cannibalizing one another.

00:17:57.000 And it's horrible.

00:17:58.000 Yeah.

00:17:59.000 Well, this brings us to the Hammond case.

00:18:01.000 Now, the general understanding, and I'm convinced it's this sort of anti-cowboyism that we get taught in schools where they go, oh, the ranchers, they're bad.

00:18:09.000 They're rednecks. 0.99

00:18:10.000 And the Hammonds were arsonists.

00:18:12.000 And they were just burning the forest willy-nilly.

00:18:15.000 Well, actually, the Washington Post article that I talked about earlier, I sent it to you, where they go, break out the matches because he was hunting deer illegally.

00:18:23.000 Now, you read that sentence and you go, what are you burning?

00:18:26.000 Like your footprints from when you were hunting the deer, the dead deer?

00:18:30.000 It doesn't make any sense.

00:18:31.000 And a fire isn't going to burn up a deer.

00:18:33.000 I mean, it's not going to completely, you know, get rid of it to where there's absolutely no evidence.

00:18:39.000 So I think that's just a side issue.

00:18:41.000 I don't even know where that part of it came from as far as burning to try to cover the tracks of the deer.

00:18:46.000 But, you know, if anybody with any common sense looks at this issue, look at how many hundreds of thousands of acres burn out there in those forests in Oregon and Idaho and Montana and California and Washington when they're dry and when they haven't been logged properly.

00:19:01.000 And the Hammonds burned, I think it was around 140 acres in two small fires.

00:19:07.000 One was a backburn to protect their branch headquarters when a lightning struck fire was coming towards them.

00:19:15.000 And then another one was just a small fire to get rid of some noxious juniper trees that are, you know, they just crowd out the grass and anyone out there knows that they're basically a noxious weed.

00:19:25.000 I mean it was just a very small fire to do some management on some land.

00:19:29.000 I mean 140 acres sounds like a lot, I understand, to some people, but you have to look at the scope of these things, these, you know, these landscapes out there.

00:19:38.000 I mean, it's nothing, and there, again, it wasn't arson.

00:19:42.000 It was doing the same type of management that the BLM does.

00:19:46.000 Fires are an integral part of ranching.

00:19:49.000 They're an integral part of any sort of forest control.

00:19:51.000 They're an integral part of a forest.

00:19:53.000 A pine cone can't pop unless it's heated to a certain degree.

00:19:57.000 We have fires are a crucial part of the environmental balance.

00:20:03.000 And if you're working with nature, you have to work with fire.

00:20:06.000 Right.

00:20:06.000 Arsonists.

00:20:08.000 Right.

00:20:08.000 And particularly when there's grass that hasn't been able to be grazed as it should, and trees that haven't been logged as they should.

00:20:15.000 That is, especially when fire does come into play and is kind of necessary because there's just so much overgrowth that, you know, something has to get rid of all of that dead extra fuel.

00:20:26.000 It's almost like the people who live on the land and live with the animals in nature know more about it than a bureaucrat in Washington.

00:20:36.000 It seems that way.

00:20:37.000 Yes.

00:20:38.000 It's hard to manage what you can't see.

00:20:40.000 Right.

00:20:41.000 Especially when you have no experience in the field.

00:20:43.000 Right, right.

00:20:44.000 Now we're running out of time, and I'm sorry to dump all this on you, but the Bundy's, as far as I can see, the government said, you owe me a million dollars in grass, grass munching.

00:20:56.000 And we were talking to Angie Bundy earlier, and she said that the figure's more like eight grand.

00:21:03.000 Yeah, I've never seen that million dollar figure verified.

00:21:07.000 I think it's sort of a number that just gets thrown around.

00:21:10.000 And I think some people are okay with that being out there, but I don't think it's proven.

00:21:15.000 So yeah, I don't know what the exact dollar amount is, but the Bundies have the right to graze on the BLM land. 0.65

00:21:23.000 They've established that right through grazing for generations and through the use of the water.

00:21:29.000 That being said, yes, there are grazing fees that need to be paid for any rancher that grazes on BLM or for forest service land.

00:21:39.000 So, I mean, that is one step in the process, yes.

00:21:41.000 So the bungees were wrong not to pay, or did they, I heard they wanted to pay and they weren't allowed to pay? 0.99

00:21:47.000 Right, I understand they tried to pay their county.

00:21:49.000 They don't believe in paying the BLM because they don't believe that the federal land, that the federal government should actually own huge tracts of land according to the Constitution.

00:21:59.000 And that might be another topic for another day for you to cover.

00:22:03.000 But yeah, so they did decline to pay the BLM for their grazing fees.

00:22:09.000 That is correct.

00:22:10.000 But I do believe that they attempted to pay that to the county because they believe more in local control of land like we were talking about versus somebody in Washington, D.C. And you have to understand, you know, 50 of their neighbors, really their only neighbors that they had, the Bundies were the 51st rancher kind of left there when they declared this tortoise endangered and said that, you know, cattle were going to kill all the tortoises, so they had to get rid of all the cattle.

00:22:37.000 And so the Bundies really had their backs up against a wall and were really just clawing to preserve anything that they had left as far as their ranch goes.

00:22:46.000 Right, it wasn't about the grass bill.

00:22:48.000 It was about preserving their ranch forever.

00:22:50.000 Now, we have, that brings us to our last guy, Lavoy Finnecum.

00:22:54.000 He outright refused.

00:22:56.000 And instead, like these guys, they don't go to a debtor's prison for a week the way you would if you owed someone some money.

00:23:03.000 The Hammonds spent five years in prison.

00:23:07.000 I think they're still in prison, right?

00:23:09.000 Yes, that is correct.

00:23:10.000 And the Bundies are still facing prison time. 0.71

00:23:13.000 And this Lavoie guy ends up shot dead.

00:23:16.000 Right, right.

00:23:17.000 It seems like the punishment is not fitting the crime.

00:23:20.000 Yeah.

00:23:22.000 It really seems like overkill and kind of a double standard when you look at how so many other things are handled.

00:23:29.000 Yeah, other crimes are handled.

00:23:31.000 Well, we just had an illegal immigrant shoot a woman in the head and get away scot-free. 1.00

00:23:36.000 Right, right, I know.

00:23:38.000 It doesn't seem...

00:23:44.000 He was the most gentle, kind man that ever lived.

00:23:48.000 I mean, if that's something that is worth shooting somebody over, then I don't know.

00:23:54.000 Yeah.

00:23:55.000 Well, it's nice to finally get the other side because we're getting a very biased look at ranching and no one's talking to the ranchers.

00:24:03.000 Well, we really appreciate you showing an interest here because we feel the same way.

00:24:06.000 We really feel like the ranchers need to get their point of view out there because it's, you know, we feel like we're doing a service to the world.

00:24:16.000 We're providing food.

00:24:18.000 Like I told you in my email, we're taking a natural resource, a natural renewable resource, grass, that really nothing else can be done with that.

00:24:27.000 And we're turning it into food that people can eat.

00:24:30.000 And we're doing it on very slim profit margins.

00:24:32.000 We're not getting rich.

00:24:34.000 We do it because we love it and we feel like we don't tell the rest of the world how they need to do their jobs.

00:24:40.000 And we'd appreciate somewhat of the same kind of sentiment toward us.

00:24:45.000 Just, you know, let us do what we know how to do.

00:24:48.000 I'd appreciate if you could get some respect too.

00:24:52.000 Carrie, thank you for coming on the show.

00:24:53.000 It's a pleasure to talk to you and I want to check in later.

00:24:56.000 Thank you very much.

00:24:57.000 We would love that.

00:24:58.000 We appreciate having the chance to visit with you.

00:25:01.000 All right, Kerry, cheers. 0.50

00:25:03.000 Sipping whiskey out the bar.

00:25:06.000 Not thinking about tomorrow.

00:25:08.000 Ryan, are you there, sir?

00:25:09.000 I am here.

00:25:12.000 So I'm conflating a lot of stuff today with Trump's move to sort of defederalize these monuments in, I don't know, Utah, Ohio.

00:25:26.000 I'm a Canadian New Yorker born in Britain, so I couldn't know less about this subject.

00:25:30.000 But is it crazy of me to say that what Trump did is associated with the Hammonds, is associated with Lavoie Finnecum, is associated with the Bundies, in that the less government has involvement with land, the better we all are?

00:25:49.000 I wish I had a solid answer to tell you.

00:25:51.000 Yes, definitively, he did it for them.

00:25:54.000 I can't tell you that, though.

00:25:57.000 The moves that he made earlier this week when he was visiting Salt Lake City were probably the biggest single step back towards Federalism that I've seen within at least the last 25 years.

00:26:08.000 I mean, I had just moved to southern Utah when the Grand Staircase Escalante Monument was designated by William Jefferson Clinton.

00:26:15.000 And I remember the anger and just the outrage that locals there felt to have so many acres placed off limits and essentially regulated out of existence.

00:26:26.000 I know the common narrative is, well, this is to protect the land.

00:26:30.000 This is to make sure that it's preserved.

00:26:33.000 But there were a lot of people who were utilizing that land, and I mean responsibly, forestry and ranching and so forth, mining.

00:26:39.000 This wasn't scorched earth or strip mining.

00:26:42.000 These were people who had it in their interest to keep those renewable resources lasting for generations.

00:26:48.000 And suddenly it was placed off limits.

00:26:50.000 Well, there's all this conjecture.

00:26:53.000 The left loves dealing in hypotheticals.

00:26:55.000 And I haven't heard anyone say it's all going to be shopping malls now.

00:26:59.000 But there is fear of fracking or something.

00:27:02.000 And whenever they say that, I can't help but ask, what's the matter with fracking?

00:27:07.000 Yeah.

00:27:08.000 And I'm not an engineer, so I couldn't tell you, is fracking really causing earthquakes?

00:27:13.000 Is it causing the earth to shift poles?

00:27:15.000 Or I don't know.

00:27:15.000 I've heard some pretty outrageous theories of what it does.

00:27:20.000 Having lived in the West all of my life, I am a very strong proponent for the wise use of resources.

00:27:27.000 And I trust the people who live there in those lands and in those states and affected areas to understand what wise use is.

00:27:34.000 Nobody wants to have to wade through spilled crude oil holding a sheaf of money in their hands.

00:27:41.000 Look, we got money.

00:27:42.000 We may be dying, but at least we're rich.

00:27:43.000 We're literally hillbillies.

00:27:44.000 Yes.

00:27:45.000 Right.

00:27:46.000 No, we want to take care of this.

00:27:47.000 And especially the national parks and the national monuments in Utah, they're a source of pride.

00:27:53.000 We love when people come here and just go gaga over our eye candy.

00:27:57.000 Right.

00:27:57.000 Brian, can you move your mic a bit?

00:27:58.000 When it's behind you, you look like a pirate.

00:28:01.000 It looks like an eye patch.

00:28:02.000 There we go.

00:28:03.000 That's good.

00:28:03.000 There we go.

00:28:04.000 Okay.

00:28:04.000 Just don't hide your gorgeous face.

00:28:06.000 Gorgeous guys like us.

00:28:07.000 We need to advertise.

00:28:08.000 We want people to go gaga over our eye candy. 0.53

00:28:12.000 But I think that the conflation here is justified, I hope, in that the Bundies basically said this. 0.52

00:28:20.000 They said, we don't want the federal government controlling our land.

00:28:23.000 We can do a better job with it.

00:28:24.000 And isn't the whole origin of the Bundy affair that Cliven said, I don't recognize the Bureau of Land Management.

00:28:30.000 I'm not paying you.

00:28:31.000 I'll pay the county, but I'm not paying the Washington.

00:28:34.000 I'm not paying the White House for the right to do what I've been doing for generations.

00:28:39.000 That's a very big part of it.

00:28:40.000 You have to understand that the Bundy family's roots go back to about 1877 on that land where they have been running their cattle.

00:28:47.000 And I don't know if you have ever seen the Gold Butte area or the Bunkerville area of Nevada.

00:28:52.000 Have you ever seen pictures of it?

00:28:54.000 Yes.

00:28:57.000 What was your impression?

00:28:58.000 It doesn't look like it's easy to farm.

00:29:00.000 You're not going to grow any soya beans there.

00:29:03.000 No, it's a pretty harsh environment.

00:29:06.000 I mean, the kind of people who would settle there and eke out a living ranching and tame that land, they got to be pretty determined people.

00:29:15.000 And so it's been in their family for generations.

00:29:18.000 Have you seen how many kids these people have?

00:29:20.000 Well, you need help on the ranch.

00:29:22.000 I talked to Angie Bundy this morning.

00:29:25.000 She's got eight.

00:29:26.000 Eight running around.

00:29:27.000 I wish we all did that these days.

00:29:30.000 Yeah, sorry to interrupt you, but yeah, this land, all it is, is just some tufts of grass and bushes and stuff, and that's useless.

00:29:39.000 You're not going to make lumber out of that, but you can make beef out of it.

00:29:42.000 And we have this mentality where we trust the White House with nature more than the ranchers.

00:29:47.000 And I think it's a form of self-hatred.

00:29:51.000 Like, we hate the cowboy.

00:29:52.000 Whereas when I was a kid, it was Jesse James and Cowboys and Indians.

00:29:56.000 No one wanted to be an Indian. 1.00

00:29:57.000 I bet you today, no kids want to be cowboys, if they're even allowed to play that game.

00:30:01.000 Yeah, cowboys have kind of become the new symbol of defiance.

00:30:03.000 You know, a cowboy hat and cowboy boots.

00:30:06.000 What are you against?

00:30:07.000 And it's just because they're the ones who are standing up for their rights and for these lands.

00:30:12.000 And maybe I could explain for a second how these rights tie together.

00:30:17.000 When you hear of grazing rights or water rights or improvements, you know, like water tanks and ponds and things, those are some of the rights that the Bundies were asserting. 0.76

00:30:27.000 This is why Clivin said, I'm going to stop doing business with the BLM because they're trying to put me out of business.

00:30:35.000 And he had made beneficial use, as had his forebears before him, of the grass that grew there, the water that flowed there.

00:30:42.000 They had made beneficial use of that, which gave them rights, even though they don't own title to the land, they still have an enforceable right to those things which they have properly purchased and have been recorded in the county recorder's office.

00:30:56.000 And by using those rights, they still have access to them.

00:31:00.000 It's like having an easement.

00:31:01.000 If you've had property where there was an easement, you may own the property, but that easement stays in place because it was a pre-existing right.

00:31:08.000 Right.

00:31:08.000 Well, that's something I think a lot of us New Yorkers don't understand is the Bundies weren't being inconvenienced.

00:31:14.000 It's not like they saw their bill and went, it's a little high this month.

00:31:17.000 They were facing extinction.

00:31:19.000 The Hamlets, they weren't mildly annoyed by how they had to do brush fires.

00:31:24.000 They are serving five years in prison.

00:31:28.000 So it's not like the government is being a little grumpy or a little inconvenient.

00:31:33.000 They are decimating families that are generations old.

00:31:37.000 Out of 52 ranchers that were operating in that area of Clark County, Nevada, Clive and Bundy is the only rancher who remains in business.

00:31:45.000 The rest were regulated out of existence.

00:31:48.000 Where's the support?

00:31:49.000 Like even, I know this is going to sound crazy, but even Antifa, even these young kids that call themselves anarchists, aren't you inspired by seeing a man with a gun stand up to the authorities?

00:32:01.000 That's a beautiful American archetype.

00:32:06.000 Something that I wish more people understood, too, about Cliven's conflict with the authorities is this has gone on for well over 20 years.

00:32:13.000 Yeah, same with the Hammonds.

00:32:15.000 And it has been determination, not violence, and not even the threat of violence, that has stopped the authorities from taking their cattle away from them.

00:32:24.000 What's happened, though, is the authorities have ratcheted up the coercion and ratcheted up the arm twisting to try to get the Bundies to bow to their will.

00:32:34.000 And I think we're at a point in our history here in America where it's been long enough since someone really had to stand up and take a hit for liberty or for asserting their rights.

00:32:45.000 We've forgotten what that is.

00:32:46.000 I think we assume, oh, it's just going to naturally hand down from generation to generation, and it doesn't work that way.

00:32:52.000 There are always forces that are competing against liberty and trying to shrink it and expand the state in place of it.

00:32:59.000 And when someone does stand up, they will get hammered, just as the Hammonds have and just as the Bundies have. 0.99

00:33:05.000 Well, and also there's a real out of sight, out of mind, and a kind of an apathy you get from the rest of America.

00:33:10.000 I don't totally get why.

00:33:11.000 I think maybe it's going to Marxist schools and hearing the cowboys are terrible, but they just sort of shrug it off.

00:33:17.000 Well, they shouldn't have broken the law.

00:33:18.000 They should have paid their bills.

00:33:19.000 What exactly are the Bundies facing?

00:33:21.000 I heard that they just got out on bail.

00:33:22.000 What's an update with the prison term?

00:33:25.000 Okay, so as of last week, actually, I guess as of this week, just earlier this week, all of the defendants in this case, stemming from a standoff and confrontation that took place in April of 2014, all of the defendants have been granted pretrial release.

00:33:40.000 Now, this is after 660 days of sitting in jail waiting for trial.

00:33:45.000 So, I mean, if anybody's tempted to say, well, that's so generous.

00:33:48.000 And wow, how nice.

00:33:49.000 Hey, these guys have been in jail for the better part of two years.

00:33:52.000 Cliven has chosen to refuse that pretrial release.

00:33:56.000 And it's because of his principles.

00:33:58.000 He's saying, look, I'm not going to be let out of here so I can go home and be a dog on a leash, you know, with an electric monitor here.

00:34:04.000 He says, I will walk out of this jail a free man or I'm not walking out.

00:34:07.000 Amazing.

00:34:09.000 I hear nothing but heroicism, and I get nothing but apathy and disdain from my fellow city folk.

00:34:17.000 It's incredibly frustrating, and it's un-American, ultimately.

00:34:21.000 Well, there's the narrative that has to be overcome.

00:34:24.000 And the very fact that these individuals were given pretrial release is a strong indicator that that narrative is starting to fracture.

00:34:31.000 The prosecution portrayed these, well, these are dangerous men.

00:34:34.000 Why?

00:34:34.000 They pointed guns at federal agents and they incited violence.

00:34:38.000 And yet, as evidence has come forward, there's this pattern emerging.

00:34:42.000 The government, so far in this trial, has put three witnesses on the stand.

00:34:45.000 Every one of these witnesses has inadvertently revealed previously withheld information that actually helped the defense.

00:34:52.000 And the judge has sealed these sessions where she's made the decision to give these guys pretrial release, but it's a pretty safe bet.

00:35:00.000 Some of this evidence that's been coming forward in those sealed sessions is what has caused her to reverse that earlier hard stance that said, no, these guys are too dangerous to be let loose.

00:35:10.000 So how much prison time are they facing?

00:35:12.000 Worst case scenario?

00:35:13.000 Decades.

00:35:14.000 It'll be a life sentence for many of them if they were convicted.

00:35:18.000 And what does your gut say the conviction will be?

00:35:22.000 The jury is paying really close attention.

00:35:24.000 I've watched them and I've watched the notes that they take.

00:35:27.000 And when they have the chance to ask questions of the witnesses, their questions are pointed more at the government's case.

00:35:32.000 Why did you do things this way?

00:35:34.000 Or is it normal for you to do things like this?

00:35:37.000 Now, keep in mind, we're still early in the trial, but these guys, their BS detectors seem to be well calibrated.

00:35:44.000 Well, I'm optimistic, but I'm also looking at the Hammonds who got five years for lighting a brush fire that they had to light to ensure their land lived.

00:35:52.000 Yeah.

00:35:53.000 Well, and isn't it interesting?

00:35:54.000 The first judge in that case felt terrible about the idea of sentencing them to that length of prison.

00:36:00.000 And in fact, said, no, I'm going to let you serve this much time or this much for time served.

00:36:04.000 And it was another judge that said, no, no, no, you have to serve every day of it, which is what sparked the protest, you know, up at Mal here in the first place.

00:36:12.000 And ultimately got Lavoy Finnecum killed.

00:36:14.000 Yeah.

00:36:15.000 Terrible.

00:36:16.000 Well, Brian, thanks for updating us, and we'd like to check back in because I don't enjoy this out of sight, out of mind we're seeing from the people who provide us with our cheeseburgers.

00:36:26.000 We need these guys.

00:36:28.000 If you would have a chance to meet the Bundies, you know, their name sparks really strong reactions in people either way.

00:36:35.000 But I can tell you from long time association with Ryan Bundy, I've been a friend of his for about 12 years.

00:36:41.000 These are the kind of people, if you were broken down alongside the road, they would stop and not just wish you well.

00:36:47.000 Well, we'll say a prayer for you and then drive off.

00:36:49.000 They would take care of you and do whatever it took to get you on your way.

00:36:52.000 If it meant giving you the shirt off their backs, that's the kind of people that they are.

00:36:55.000 And I wish more people understood that.

00:36:58.000 Well, I'll tell you what, I don't doubt that for a second.

00:37:01.000 You can just sort of tell.

00:37:02.000 Brian, we got to go.

00:37:03.000 Thank you so much for coming on the show.

00:37:04.000 And don't eat all those pieces at once.

00:37:06.000 That's going to be murder on you.

00:37:08.000 The cheese is just going to clog you right up.

00:37:11.000 See you next time.

00:37:11.000 Thanks, Gavin.

00:37:12.000 We're smoking funny things Making love out by the lake To our favorite song Mmm Mmm They took a bunch of shrubs, excuse me, and they turned them into the greatest million earthquakes.

00:37:39.000 I can feel endorphins being released with each bite.

00:37:42.000 I think that's God's way of saying you're doing the right thing.

00:37:45.000 But no, they're not heroes.

00:37:48.000 Men who stand up to the entire government, the entire federal government, armed men who stand face to face against a man.

00:37:56.000 They're not heroes.

00:37:57.000 Well, who do you got?

00:37:59.000 We got these guys.

00:38:00.000 They're heroes because they put on wigs.

00:38:04.000 And after hundreds of hours of playing video games where they chose the chick, I don't know, because she kicks better, they started thinking, maybe I am a chick.

00:38:12.000 No, you're a degenerate nerd desperately hunting for some sort of color to give you some sort of depth, some sort of culture.

00:38:23.000 And the culture, of course, is just mental illness and weakness. 0.98

00:38:28.000 And that's why we have to stand by these guys.

00:38:30.000 You know what?

00:38:30.000 Tomorrow I'm going to get Terry Shappard on the show, Green Beret, medic, marksman.

00:38:36.000 And I'm going to have Miles threaten him with these people and hear Terry's response and why this has to be stopped.

00:38:46.000 And then similarly, I think I'm going to talk to a roaming millennial who I would say is a nine.

00:38:52.000 I'm going to talk to a roaming millennial about women in the workforce and how many exactly belong to be there and why the vast majority ultimately do not. 0.99

Get Off My Lawn - Gavin McInnes - December 07, 2017

Get Off My Lawn #43 | Fix Be In

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