On this week's episode of Get Off My Lawn, we focus our episode on January 6th, 2019, the day after 9/11. We have interviews with people facing 20 years in prison, their lawyers, and the people who were there that day.
Transcript
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00:08:37.000I don't think I could get drunk from beer.
00:08:39.000You know, that's a good point because when somebody's like in a rap song, they say good weed and alcohol, nobody thinks beer.
00:08:45.000If you said, if you had, if you were doing a music video and you're like, good weed and you put up weed and then you put up beer when they said alcohol, you'd be like, I think it would take.
00:08:52.000Like I wouldn't be able to fit the number of beers it would take to get drunk into my body.
00:08:56.000I would just become like, what's his name?
00:09:00.000Bad, Michael Jackson, fat, weirdo Yankovic in that fat video.
00:09:04.000Anyway, we're all enjoying the left overstating how terrible that day was.
00:09:12.000And Ann Coulter had a great tweet where she talks about this year, the first anniversary of January 6th, you give a gift that's paper-based.
00:09:37.000And the strange part about all this is everyone is completely ignoring not just the left burning down America and destroying police buildings and costing, I believe, $3 billion worth of damage.
00:09:53.000Every major city in the entire country has had a riot.
00:09:58.000Every state has had a statue torn down.
00:10:10.000This was a dumb brawl, a riot that broke out because people were pissed off, not just about the election, but about the media and the way that they have been portrayed.
00:10:25.000I don't think they should have done it, but I under...
00:10:27.000I'm not saying they should have done it, but I understand.
00:10:31.000Like, say you get kicked out of a bar for no reason, and on your way out, you say, fuck this place, and you knock over a bunch of pints and they smash on the ground.
00:10:52.000I was talking about this the other day.
00:10:55.000Remember when Democrat protesters stormed the U.S. Capitol in 2018, took over the U.S. Senate building, tried to get into the U.S. Supreme Court during the Kavanaugh confirmations?
00:11:05.000We've seen this happen a million times from the left, and it's always worse.
00:11:09.000Remember it was at Georgia that woman was screaming at the cop at the Senate House.
00:11:16.000I think I'm wrong about Senate House, some political building over there.
00:16:24.000I cannot confirm or deny these allegations, but that's what I heard.
00:16:28.000So the moral of that story is we need money.
00:16:33.000And the best way to donate money is to go to the individuals give, send, go.
00:16:39.000Do not, as far as I'm concerned, I got to tread lightly here for legal reasons, but my personal belief is one should not donate to these big groups just because you saw them on Steve Bennon's war room.
00:17:59.000Joe Biden also was all over this today, talking about how horrific it was and crying.
00:18:06.000And Trump just goes, this is political theater.
00:18:08.000You're trying to hide your own incompetence by focusing on Jan 6.
00:18:12.000The weird thing, though, about this is, and Molly was saying this, Trump has been accused of milking this and telling them not to settle because it's good for him.
00:18:24.000That's the weird thing about the insurrection, the meandering.
00:18:28.000The left thinks it makes the right look bad, but a lot of Republicans like it because it gins up the base.
00:18:34.000So a lot of Trump people are saying, don't settle.
00:18:39.000We want you to rot in jail and not take a plea, which I support, by the way.
00:19:46.000Trump has confirmed reports he requested 10,000 National Guard troops ahead of the January 6th rally in Washington, D.C., only to be rebuffed by the authorities.
00:19:55.000And we'll talk to a documentary filmmaker, Nick Quested, who was there that day.
00:20:02.000And he said, I walked by the Capitol steps at about 11 a.m. and there was one cop there.
00:20:09.000I mean, there's more cops at the South Bronx train station than there are protecting the White House or the Capitol, sorry?
00:20:22.000I got to be honest, after doing all these interviews, talking to all these people, I'm still very confused by that day and who was involved.
00:21:37.000I've noticed the lefties, they like to talk about this dude because he's shown like this, like, get back, get back to the mob, saving our institution.
00:21:56.000I don't know why we're remembering him, but you'll see a lot of liberals will have him as their screensaver or their banner atop their Twitter account.
00:22:36.000And we've since heard that Michael Bird was another affirmative action hire, totally incompetent, regularly left his gun in the bathroom after he'd take a shit.
00:24:22.000The pressing question here is whether the Capitol Police and the government agents killed a second female Trump supporter while putting out the lie that she died from a drug overdose.
00:25:33.000Look, I look educated because I've got books behind me.
00:25:38.000So most people don't know that you were following the Proud Boys around at various rallies for months and months before January 6th, and you were at January 6th.
00:27:15.000Why would Biggs pull out a gun like saying we're about to start shooting people?
00:27:20.000Well, that's why it doesn't make any sense because I think it was Sempsell trying to create some type of plausibility that he wasn't part of instigating the first push on the fences at the western entrance.
00:27:39.000Is he making up stuff to get a police so they'll let him go?
00:27:43.000I think he was trying to do anything he could, and I think that was very desperate.
00:29:53.000And there was a group of Proud Boys there that I hadn't seen before at other rallies with the orange hats on who are allegedly from Arizona.
00:30:47.000Because you're doing a documentary about what is it about the Proud Boys or Jan 6 or just the Trump?
00:30:56.000Well, we started making a film about the dissatisfaction with the government and the rhetoric from all parts, like from both sides, from Antifa and from various militias,
00:31:16.000whether it be the Proud Boys, who I don't think are a militia, but whatever.
00:31:20.000And it distilled into a film about from November the 3rd to January the 6th and the language and events that led to what happened on the steps of the Capitol.
00:31:51.000Stabbing is a best case scenario at this point.
00:31:54.000I also had heard that the government was going to give out their concealed carry permits to people that they didn't normally allow as far as tourism goes.
00:32:02.000And I thought, they're only going to give it to the lefties.
00:32:04.000And again, the media will take away, probably show up at a thing, and someone gets shot.
00:32:11.000Yeah, you have to think about why there was no counter protest and how that was managed as well.
00:32:16.000Yeah, yeah, I'm glad you brought that up because above and beyond that, which was very unusual, you have this sort of seminal shot, this seminal scene where it's early in the morning.
00:32:29.000I think it's, is it Biggs and Nordine or something?
00:32:31.000And they're walking by the state capitol and there's one cop there.
00:32:37.000I mean, that really is the errant thread that unravels the whole sweater.
00:32:41.000Yeah, at 11.52, I walked past the Capitol with at the front of the Powboys.
00:32:47.000In the shot was Zach, Nordine, and Biggs.
00:32:53.000And in the background, there is just one police officer, which is fascinating because if you know 30,000 people are going to turn up to a football match, would you only have one policeman there?
00:33:07.000You only have one policeman if the kid has a lemonade stand in the suburbs.
00:33:12.000I mean, right now, I guarantee you, there's at least 12 on the steps.
00:33:21.000So, I mean, that's a, you know, I'd love to know what the select committee finds out about the chain of command and how the staffing was organized that day.
00:33:34.000So let's just play hypothetical here and say, what is the worst case scenario with that one cop?
00:33:40.000Is the scenario, let's understaff law enforcement to inadvertently egg on an insurrection or some sort of riot?
00:33:50.000I mean, the worst case scenario is that there was a person in authority reduced the staffing in order to create an opportunity for a crowd to enter the Capitol.
00:34:07.000And that would be on Trump, would it not?
00:34:12.000I don't know who would be responsible for the levels of policing.
00:34:16.000I mean, ultimately, ultimately, it depends where you assess responsibility.
00:34:23.000But, you know, that seems to be a very tactical decision rather than a strategic decision to me.
00:34:51.000The fact that they've been held without bail for so long obviously implies that the U.S. attorney is unsatisfied with their level of cooperation.
00:35:03.000I think what happens to them depends on how much help they were going to give the federal government in trying to create a relationship between the organizers of Jan 6, the executive branch, and politicians such as Grossar and Meadows.
00:35:50.000And taking that to court and proving that they had planned this weeks in advance is impossible because they didn't.
00:35:57.000So my gut says time served for trespassing and vandalism.
00:36:03.000But, you know, conspiracy is a very low bar.
00:36:09.000To prove conspiracy, you don't need to necessarily prove conspiracy to you.
00:36:14.000You need to, their actions of provoking a confrontation or looking for a confrontation could be enough to warrant a conspiracy conviction.
00:36:26.000Okay, well, that is a good, because that's not what I heard, but that's a good question for our next guest who's a lawyer and is representing them.
00:36:35.000And I do not mean that in a gay way, in any way, but let's have a sit-down and do a long talk about this because I feel we've barely scratched the surface.
00:38:35.000So when you have a tailored shirt, you have the top button done up, you have your tie on, and you can fit a finger in there and you feel like a normal human being.
00:38:44.000If you I would argue, this is a very controversial statement, but I'm just going to say it.
00:38:48.000I would argue that not being able to do up your top button looks as bad as flip-flops.
00:38:55.000And if I see someone in flip-flops or I see a guy doesn't have his top button, I can't hang out with him.
00:41:21.000So you have 24 other people that you're representing from the insurrection?
00:41:29.000A total of approximately 23 or 24, including the Proud Boys, yes.
00:41:35.000And are they all basically facing the same kind of problem, which is, were you just there riding or did you conspire?
00:41:45.000You know, so, I mean, everybody's facing different sets of charges.
00:41:52.000You know, it does appear, you know, based on public information that the government is interested in the groups such as the Oath Keepers and the Proud Boys and the Three Percenters with respect to some sort of alleged conspiracy,
00:42:13.000And I'm not sure they'll be able to do that.
00:42:16.000But that is still actually, and again, this is based on public records.
00:42:21.000I mean, it's actually kind of evolving in all these cases as we speak.
00:42:25.000As you may know, because I'm sure you follow these things pretty closely, there are often superseding indictments that come through, multiple superseding indictments in the course of a case, even as they get close to trial.
00:42:40.000And so, you know, and also the government is certainly continuing their investigation.
00:42:46.000And, you know, it wouldn't surprise me if they tried to tack on additional conspiracy charges to folks who don't have them yet.
00:43:23.000And isn't that what you need to prove conspiracy?
00:43:27.000Yeah, so I mean, there's a couple of things to unpack.
00:43:32.000I mean, obviously a conspiracy charge is a serious charge, which carries with it serious potential penalties.
00:43:40.000And so the bar that the government has to meet, I think, in actuality is fairly high.
00:43:46.000I mean, you can't just use sort of metaphorical kind of talk that you might hear at a bar that kind of seems like it may be drifting into that territory.
00:44:05.000I mean, there has to be, essentially, under the law, there has to be an agreement to do something illegal and an overt act that's step that's taken in that direction.
00:44:17.000But it has to be actually relevant to the crime that's being charged.
00:44:23.000We're going to fuck shit up is not conspiracy.
00:44:42.000Yeah, no, I mean, they are very different.
00:44:43.000And, you know, as you know, and as we've talked about before, and as will probably always be a frustration for you with me, you know, I can't talk about specific cases and how that will play out.
00:44:55.000I mean, judges and juries will have to make that decision.
00:44:58.000Yeah, I mean, obviously, those are different things.
00:45:06.000If prosecutors choose to try to bring conspiracy charges based on the type of thing that you were mentioning in the first example, I suspect they will have real challenges.
00:45:17.000That's obviously up to their discretion as to what they think they can prove and what they want to try to prove.
00:45:23.000But your point is absolutely correct, in my view.
00:45:26.000So what does your gut say is going to happen?
00:45:31.000What does your gut say is going to happen to them?
00:45:35.000My gut says vandalism, trespassing, rioting, whatever, a year, two years, probation, we're done.
00:45:46.000Yeah, I mean, you know, again, that's a type of thing I really shouldn't get in predicting because that's going to force me to kind of give my views of the merits of the case.
00:45:55.000I mean, I will say that, again, I will say that based on the public record, like any other American who's viewing this, the evidence of quote-unquote conspiracy to overthrow the government,
00:46:15.000candidly in the public record so far seems a bit sparse.
00:46:19.000But again, I mean, that's going to be up to the prosecutors to see what kind of evidence they can bring forth, and then the judges and juries will decide that on their own.
00:46:26.000Well, it's a tough fight because you guys are working for a year.
00:46:30.000You're getting no money, little money, a fraction of what you would normally get.
00:46:34.000And then the prosecution has this unlimited bank account, unlimited resources.
00:46:38.000I mean, it's the little engine that could up against an entire fleet of fighter jets.
00:46:45.000Yeah, you know, sometimes it does feel, if I can use an analogy to make myself seem a little bit cool here, you know, it does seem a little bit like being Jerry Butler in the movie 300 holding the hot gates of Thermopylae against the million-man Persian army.
00:47:01.000And, you know, and if I can take the opportunity on your show here to, again, you know, ask all your viewers to go to nclu.com and do whatever they can to, you know, to donate, that will be extremely helpful.
00:47:14.000You know, also, everybody should go to the gives and go pages of these individuals and help them directly.
00:47:22.000You know, as far as I'm concerned, the more the merrier in terms of resources that can be gotten to all of these defendants, not just mine, in order to make sure they get a fair trial.
00:47:59.000I'm just talking out my ass here, but that seems like that an appeal will bring that down.
00:48:04.000That seems to me like the heaviest one because the strangest thing about this whole case is it seems entirely based on optics and not evidence.
00:48:13.000And he was obviously the most optical.
00:48:33.000And I guess what I'm asking is, it's hard to determine this and give a professional opinion about it because it seems to be such a bizarre case.
00:48:43.000It's so uniquely about optics and Proud Boys.
00:48:47.000Proud Boys are getting it worse than everyone because of Proud Boys.
00:48:49.000Not because of what they did, but because of it's almost like the media is driving this case.
00:49:50.000And so you can, in my view, given how aggressive the federal government has been with respect to this whole situation, if there were the basis remotely for those kind of charges,
00:50:08.000I would expect that you would see them.
00:50:09.000So for example, in my mind, every time any one of these defendants is called an insurrectionist, I think that's just blatantly false and defamatory.
00:50:20.000And there can be legal action based on that for sure.
00:50:28.000And like we said when we talked before, again, because the left has control of these media sort of outlets, they go with these narratives.
00:50:38.000And then when they fall apart three months later, there's no reckoning.
00:50:41.000They just kind of shrug their shoulders and they move on to the next false narrative.
00:50:46.000And so that's one of the big problems in the country right now.
00:50:48.000It's one of the big problems with big tech.
00:50:50.000It's one of the reasons that folks like you and platforms like you have, folks like Tim Pool or Take Your Choice, Joe Rogan are becoming more and more relevant than CNN and MSNBC and NBC combined because at least people are getting the truth.
00:51:21.000And you speak what you view to be the truth, but viewers have the ability to understand what your point of view might have coming along with it.
00:51:33.000These propaganda networks like CNN, MSNBC, and all the major mainstream media outlets, they try to pretend that they're straight news without any sort of political viewpoint.
00:52:12.000So trials are gradually beginning to be set.
00:52:15.000I believe there's a trial in one of the Oath Keepers cases with Judge Maida in April.
00:52:19.000The first case that we have set for trial as of right now is August 29th.
00:52:24.000That's an individual who's not triboy, but is in a co-defendant case, along with some folks who are actually detained.
00:52:34.000So what you're going to see is all of the trials that involve defendants who are detained, those will happen first.
00:52:44.000They can include some co-defendants who are not detained, but they have to try those cases first because these folks are sitting, you know, they're sitting in jail.
00:53:30.000I'm sure I think there's a handful, but the ones that I've the four that I mentioned at the beginning here, and I'm sure I might be missing one or two, but they are all on free trial.
00:55:21.000So you were at Harry's bar, and there was a bunch of Proud Boys hanging out there, and they all hopped on scooters and took a ride around the park.
00:56:11.000Not the velvet ropes to let you in at any point.
00:56:15.000So why did you travel four hours to DC?
00:56:20.000I'm doing, listen, I believe, and this is me personally, I believe that Jan 6 is the worst terrorist attack to ever take place on American soil.
00:56:31.000It's Pearl Harbor, the Civil War, and 9-11 combined.
00:56:35.000So I had to ask people, because of that, you mentioned 9-11.
01:00:04.000Proud Boys made a law that says if you're going to have an event, you have to talk to that local chapter and see if they support it or not.
01:00:12.000If they say no, then you can only go there as a civilian, not as a Proud Boy.
01:00:18.000And there's plenty of record of this, which is why they're having so much trouble prosecuting these guys.
01:00:23.000And the D.C. Proud Boys, there isn't really D.C. Proud Boys, but there's West Virginia Proud Boys.
01:00:53.000So they're trying to prove that Proud Boys plan to overthrow the Capitol.
01:00:59.000And isn't that one little interview, which I can prove happened on that day, way before January 6th, is that not proof that they didn't intend to storm the Bastille?
01:01:09.000Let's talk to someone who was there, who is also a Proud Boy, censored.TV alumni, Nick Ox.
01:01:56.000Yeah, well, I can't take you through the day for legal reasons, but I did attend this event as a journalist, announced I was going there as a journalist, and I went there and I filmed it as a journalist.
01:03:30.000Inside, that was not the attitude or the atmosphere.
01:03:35.000Again, for legal reasons, I'm just not supposed to talk about the events of, but I'll say for my part, there's a lot of questions about how, why, how this comes together.
01:04:33.000It would take 10 years and it would cost tens of millions of deaths.
01:04:38.000A bunch of angry dads on a Thursday or whenever it was.
01:04:45.000They're not going to replace the fucking government.
01:04:47.000This is not Cuba with Shea and Fidel and a handful of farmers.
01:04:52.000This is the most powerful nation in the world.
01:04:54.000And then when I say that to liberals, they go, no, no, we don't mean like literally take over the government, but they Wanted to mess with the process for a day.
01:05:03.000And I'm like, okay, I don't believe that.
01:05:06.000But even if that were true, all right.
01:05:11.000Like, well, if it's even that, I mean, I understand the ceremonial nature of certifying a voter or whatever.
01:05:19.000And I don't think that people, anyone really believe they're going to like, if I go wave this sign hard enough, like Trump gets to be president again.
01:05:26.000I just don't think that's a real line of thought, to be honest with you.
01:05:29.000So it's sort of like when Kanye got up and Taylor Swift was getting that award and he was like, no, no, I, you know, Beyonce deserves this award and ruined her acceptance speech, which was rude and tacky.
01:05:45.000I mean, was Taylor still got the award?
01:05:49.000Yeah, the, well, you know, things go forward as they go.
01:05:53.000I've never been under the illusion that I'm going to really change anything with demonstrations.
01:06:00.000I don't think demonstrations in general just, it's, maybe people enjoy them, but I don't see them as affecting democracy that much, as they say.
01:06:11.000I agree, especially when there was a big one in November, a big one in December.
01:06:16.000Like, one a month for that whole time just seemed excessive to me, which is why I said don't go.
01:06:20.000But can you tell us about life after that day?
01:06:24.000So you go back to the hotel, whatever.
01:06:26.000You weren't arrested or anything that day, right?
01:06:28.000No, well, I got in a plane, flew back to Hawaii, and I was immediately arrested in the airport because they waited to go get your bag so they know you're the one.
01:07:23.000And I'm not telling you how to live your life, but I would say yes.
01:07:27.000And then when they turn around, I would go, and then the other guy, I would bring him down and hit him with my knee.
01:07:35.000And then I would do a big, slow circle kick that knocked them out, like knocked them to the ground, sorry.
01:07:40.000Then I would get up on the thing that has the luggage and be running along that and then jump over that thing, run out to where the exit is, rip someone out of their car.
01:10:03.000I'm not a lawyer, but this is what I get from reading the internet.
01:10:07.000But Antifa and the radical left have been doing exactly that, and there's no debate about it in their case, burning down police headquarters all over the Pacific Northwest.
01:10:18.000You know, the idea that interrupting any kind of politician at work is 20 years, that means the prisons would be full of protesters because that's all Antifa's been doing.
01:10:30.000Well, that approach has been tried, believe it or not.
01:10:33.000And the judge that most recently commented on that said that it's different because they burned down courthouses and such at night.
01:10:57.000Anyway, from what I understand, that's not going to be a defense in this thing, is that there's a disparity in treatment between right and left protesters.
01:11:05.000It's just whether it should or not, I'll leave that up to your viewers to decide, but it's not working.
01:11:11.000So I, you know, so much of this is just conjecture and guessing.
01:11:15.000And I definitely felt about five months ago that 20 years was possible, at least for like half a dozen or a dozen, no, half a dozen of the guys.
01:11:27.000Now my gut says everyone's looking at something, but it's going to range from like one to two, not even three years probation kind of thing.
01:11:38.000Because the big trespassing, vandalism, all that rioting is easy to prove.
01:11:43.000But sedition, conspiracy, all of that is, I mean, a mountain of work.
01:11:50.000And I don't think there's any evidence because I don't think you did conspire, any of you.
01:11:56.000No, when I pleaded not guilty, I mean, I mean it.
01:13:21.000But within all of that clown world parameter, you getting, you know, two years, getting out in a year and a half, your kid being three and a half, it's digestible.
01:15:54.000I just assume they listen to my calls, but like they really have bugged me personally.
01:16:00.000That's funny because I believed it and I just went, oh, relax.
01:16:03.000Him and his wife obviously have a sense of humor and they have a dumb joke picture on their wall.
01:16:08.000No, it's completely made up by D.L. Hegley or whoever made that in the first place.
01:16:12.000I don't know, but he made it popular also.
01:16:15.000Well, what the left has done, right, is they've said, I've decided that everyone to the right of me is racist, and that's a comfortable fit, and you can't defend yourself, right?
01:16:25.000How do you prove that you don't believe a thing?
01:16:27.000And then all of a sudden, they start noticing that some of them have black wives.
01:16:31.000And because they put all of the eggs in the racism basket, it's a very fragile belief system.
01:16:39.000So once you just go pook with a black wife, the whole thing falls apart.
01:16:43.000So now they have to reinvent the basket and they go, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute.
01:16:47.000It's like a slave owner raping his slave, which totally demeans the wife, by the way.
01:16:54.000She's this stupid bitch now who is like constantly abused and takes it.
01:17:00.000They say the same about Zenoa Kinsman, John's wife.
01:17:03.000And I'm like, I'd love to see you say the bedwench thing to her face in person.
01:17:07.000I have a feeling you'll be a little less brave about throwing that term around when you're talking about the actual person, like a 9-11 truther talking to the family of a victim.
01:17:18.000But it's amazing how they keep reinventing the wheel.
01:17:21.000And they bring up some guy who fucked his slave, like Thomas Jefferson or something, one million years ago, to maintain this retarded belief system that everyone on the right is a white supremacist.
01:17:36.000You have to do some serious gymnastics.
01:17:38.000Like, you know, the word, they only say the word racist because that's what gets you fired.
01:17:43.000You know, if people who really who hated pop-tarts got fired, they call you a Pop-Tart hater.
01:17:51.000It doesn't, that's why they use the word.
01:18:52.000Even though the husband's innocent, it's the same sort of results.
01:18:56.000So, you know, cave-wise, her brain, I'm not just talking about your wife, my wife too, her brain goes, husband bad, him hurt, family, ooh, ug, ug, no like man, bad man.
01:19:09.000And it takes a lot to overcome that instinct and go, yeah, that is the result, but it's not fair.
01:20:06.000Anyway, later in the news, I saw somebody I recognized who I helped put decorations up with, sort of a distant family member of hers, had run over two cops on purpose during the Philadelphia because cops aren't bad, right?
01:20:22.000And just that's what she decided to do.
01:20:24.000So within 24 hours, and she's not a person who has no connections to that.
01:20:29.000She was completely bailed out of jail.
01:20:47.000I was going to say black privilege, but it's really liberal privilege.
01:20:50.000We're living in an era of liberal privilege, and there's no limit to the heinous crimes you can get away with if it's under the name of supporting the DNC.
01:21:00.000If you're in Antifa and you're firebombing shit, they'll work it out.
01:21:03.000I think that the pendulum is swinging back.
01:21:05.000I think Antifa is starting to get arrested.
01:21:07.000But, you know, two years ago, last year even, someone would punch a cop in the head and all of a sudden they were Antifa, these magic lawyers would just appear out of nowhere.
01:23:30.000The song that the Proud Boys blare from their truck when they march through Long Island, the Five Points Proud Boys, which is like five different boroughs of New York.
01:23:43.000They play the Pine Tar Rebellion song.
01:23:51.000And this was, it sums up the club perfectly, I think.
01:23:55.000When the war started, the American Revolution, fighting the British, the Brits realized they're going to need more ships, and they realized ships need masts, and that means trees.
01:24:06.000So they told, the Pine Tree Rebellion, they told lumberjacks not to cut down any trees that were bigger than this, because they need them.
01:24:17.000So those are the property of the crown.
01:24:19.000If it has a diameter this big, then it's the property of the crown.
01:24:22.000You may not touch them because we need them for masts so we can shoot you from our boats with cannons.
01:25:33.000The other lawyer we have on today's show, Mr. Dan Hall.
01:25:37.000I want you to try to ignore the fact that he looks exactly like Paul McCartney during this interview and focus on what he's talking about, folks, okay?
01:25:46.000Only an idiot, an imbecile baby would be staring at him thinking, holy shit, he looks exactly like Paul McCartney.
01:26:40.000He's been sued with three other individuals who are supposedly leaders of the Proud Boys on that day.
01:26:48.000But I'm also representing another January 6th figure who wasn't there named Henry Terrio in connection with the House of Representatives investigation.
01:27:01.000Now, we were just talking to a documentarian who was filming Joe that day.
01:27:07.000And we brought up the New York Times article where they said that weird prospect kid said Joe showed him a gun and said, let's go into the Capitol.
01:27:18.000This filmmaker has footage of that meeting, and you clearly see there's no gun involved.
01:27:50.000The myth is that a gentleman named Ryan Samsel, who has quite a criminal history that's remarkable, put his arm around Joe and said something.
01:28:04.000And Joe said, showed him a gun and said, I want you to go up and break down one of those barriers and mess with one of those cops.
01:28:12.000And Samson is supposed to have said, you know, I'm hesitant about that, which is very unlikely.
01:28:55.000And one of the interesting things about all of this is, of course, that the Justice Department has selected the Prow Boys as low-hanging fruit to pin a conspiracy plan or coordination of obstruction of the Harris-Biden certification.
01:29:14.000And the truth is, there was no plan, there was no conspiracy, there's no coordination.
01:29:18.000The Prowboys were doing that day what they always do, which is march around, get their pictures taken, say some hammy things.
01:29:28.000In this case, they was their fourth time in Washington that year, and they did what they always did.
01:29:34.000They went to the east front of the Capitol, got their pictures taken, said F Antifa a few times, and then walked back down to the right down Constitution Avenue and had lunch.
01:29:49.000And while they were having lunch, Trump's speech ended, and they were about to go back to the ellipse, and at the last minute decided to go up to the bottom of Capitol Hill.
01:30:00.000And I don't know about you, but after I've had a couple of hoagies, I always want to storm the Bastion.
01:30:09.000And that's the films tell that story, the films that everybody can see.
01:30:13.000But there wasn't any, it was the normal Proud Boy march, except there weren't very many people.
01:30:22.000It was during the day, which is normal, not many people, out of uniform for a reason.
01:30:26.000And there was a plan to go back to the ellipse or a place closer to the White House, away, about a mile and a half from the Capitol.
01:30:38.000And that didn't happen because at the last minute, there was this magic moment where somebody looked over their shoulder and said, who are these people marching up the hill?
01:30:46.000And they were not any kind of, quote, militia or just looked like mom and pops, folks from Ohio, North Carolina, New Jersey, whoever, were going up the hill about one o'clock.
01:31:01.000And they were still sitting down eating lunch.
01:31:03.000And somebody said, well, we're going to go.
01:31:06.000We're going to go back to the ellipse.
01:31:07.000And then somebody else said, well, what's that?
01:31:08.000And then they made the mistake of walking over to the bottom of the hill and hanging out there for a little while.
01:31:18.000And, you know, the rest, then there's this magic moment where somebody decides, let's follow these people up the hill, which was a bad move.
01:31:28.000Because once you follow people up the hill, you're trespassing.
01:31:31.000You're not in First Amendment land anymore.
01:32:11.000They went to the bathroom, went to the Capitol, did use the bathroom, went up to the Senate chambers.
01:32:16.000But it's not like, I think people are going to be disappointed when they finally see the films of Joe, who was usually by himself in those films, walking and strolling around in the Capitol like it's the first trip to the Smithsonian.
01:32:31.000You know, it's amazing how much work you've done for all this, the research and the legal work you've done.
01:32:39.000I don't think people understand how incredibly expensive these things are.
01:32:45.000I mean, ideally you have, what, a million per representative?
01:32:49.000Like, a million for Ethan, a million for Biggs.
01:32:57.000I'm not, there's three kinds of lawyers.
01:32:59.000There's retained people, it's people who get paid.
01:33:01.000There's CJA appointments, which are kind of like a private version of public defenders, and public defenders.
01:33:10.000And by the way, the public defenders and the CGA people, for the most part, are excellent, especially the public defenders.
01:33:16.000Retained people are different, and I'm used to representing corporations, often in crimes, always in federal courts.
01:33:24.000But the budget for this for two corporations, if you will, going at each other for a six-week trial after a month of preparation would be astronomical.
01:33:38.000But I will say, though, that even lowering your rate, probably the budget for, you know, the people the Justice Department have identified as being leaders of a group or really part of destruction and conspiracy,
01:34:19.000Well, we were talking to John Pierce earlier, and we were using analogies like, it's like the little engine that could versus a bunch of F-14 fighter jets.
01:34:29.000I mean, you're not even in the same universe, and that's a real problem with our justice system.
01:34:34.000Once the state is out to get you, how is this different from Stalinism?
01:34:39.000Because the courts have a 98% guilty rate, and it's you and your petty, like when I say you, I mean Joe Biggs, it's the average citizen and whatever he's managed to save throughout his life versus literally infinity.
01:34:55.000Yeah, and these are big deal cases and important cases.
01:34:59.000And, you know, the verdict, if you will, is still out on what really happened that day.
01:35:05.000Nobody's talking, everybody's on the right and the left are talking about really crazy, mindless narratives that never happened, conspiracy theories, at best.
01:35:15.000This was the madness of crowds pushed along a little bit maybe by some of the things that Trump said in his speech.
01:35:21.000There may have been some professional crowd fomenters in it.
01:35:26.000But there's a lot of people involved, and we're not sure about that, but it does not look like when all is said and done, there's going to be a conspiracy or plan storyline for this.
01:35:40.000However, right now there is, and there will be up until the time of Joe's trial.
01:36:10.000No, I'd like to, I'm not exactly sure what you said.
01:36:12.000I'd love to meet John, and John and I need to talk about some things anyway, but I think that I'm very happy that good lawyers like John got involved in this because some of the lawyers are better than others.
01:36:28.000And one of the reasons for that, and I think you and I talked about this a couple of days off camera, is that you can get lots of people from the larger firms to represent the Taliban, but you can't for some reason get anybody to represent anyone who marched up that hill that day.
01:36:46.000And this is true of Proud Boys and the right in general.
01:36:49.000Like I was getting sued last year for some made-up charge, and the lawyers kept refusing.
01:36:55.000And every time they would refuse to represent me, I'd say, you know, Jeffrey Dahmer had a lawyer.
01:37:30.000He's actually in a federal subset or hold of a jail in Florida, which is actually probably of the four jails involved with these four, his three codependents, probably the best, but it's still jail.
01:37:47.000And the notion that he has future dangerousness attributes under the Bail Reform Act is a little bit insane if you think about this presupposes that the reason he was put back in jail is,
01:38:05.000I mean, the idea of future dangerousness is we want to have people in jail pre-trial for, you know, forgery, rape, auto theft, things that they have a history of doing.
01:38:19.000And it's very unlikely, I think, that anyone, especially Joe, who was out for three months between the time he was finally incarcerated and he was first processed, is going to commit another insurrection.
01:39:37.000The problem is once you have it sort of in place, all the defendants in a conspiracy are, of course, responsible for what the others said and did.
01:40:38.000And one of the Prowboys did two things that were unfortunate.
01:40:43.000And one was what they usually do, and that is like saying a lot of things that everybody in half of America was saying between the election of Joe Biden and the inauguration.
01:40:57.000And the other thing they did was they decided to go up that hill.
01:41:00.000Going up that hill, which is bad, and it's trespass, but it's super trespass on a constitutional day.
01:41:08.000And it's on a day when even a Trump appointee thinks, wait, you might be interfering here with the peaceful transfer of power, which is a fair thing.
01:41:18.000But in the case of the Prowboys, and that's distinct from some of these other groups, I don't want to talk about other groups of people, whether they have names or not, but there's no plan like, you know, we do this, we meet here, you're right.
01:41:32.000We have guns that we're going to bring across the river and nothing like that at all.
01:41:37.000And every indication showed that they were probably not going to storm anything or do any violence.
01:42:09.000Because the takeaway from that stabbing was that Proud Boys showed up in D.C. and a stabbing ensued, not Proud Boys were stabbed.
01:42:17.000Yeah, and one of the things that was really interesting to me is the Washington Post, which I used to admire, mentioned the stabbings.
01:42:25.000I went back and looked at it, but it almost made it look as though it was the fault of the Proud Boys, and it wasn't at all.
01:42:31.000It was a rank-and-file Antifa member stabbed four of them.
01:42:36.000This kind of thing had happened before, but the idea was when we come back, let's be incognito, not because that would make it easier to pull off the, you know, storming the Bastille or interfering with the Harris Biden certification,
01:42:53.000but it would make it harder for them to see us.
01:42:58.000Well, wait, wait, Dan, there was another thing.
01:43:02.000Right before January 6th, the Proud Boys had come up with a new law, and that is we check with the local chapter before we do something on their turf.
01:43:12.000And if they're against it, then we can only go as citizens and not as Proud Boys.
01:43:16.000So apparently the D.C. Proud Boys did not want this.
01:43:22.000And that's the first thing that somebody like Enrique Terrio will start telling people when he gets out of jail next Friday and starts talking to the House Committee.
01:43:32.000There was a request that they not do it.
01:43:35.000I think, and there may have been one other reason, which I won't disclose now, but it's pretty good.
01:43:40.000It's just not something I need to disclose now.
01:43:43.000I think the best reason was not to get stabbed during the day.
01:43:47.000And Chief, during the summer of 2020, which some people have forgotten about, became stabby during the day and at night.
01:43:57.000Powboys don't generally carry weapons.
01:44:04.000They will, however, fight back if they think that they or particularly Trump Normies are threatened, whether that be in D.C. or, you know, yeah, it just occurred to me, this might be evidence that I could give you.
01:44:16.000We had Noble Beard on the show in December, and he had been stabbed, but he had the chest plates and the back plates, so he thought he was just being punched.
01:44:23.000He didn't notice until much later that there was knife holes in his plates.
01:44:43.000The Washington Post at least covered it, and then they sort of changed it a little bit to make it seem even more like it was the Proud Boys' fault, frankly.
01:44:51.000But, and, you know, Noble Beard, to his credit, has been very active.
01:44:58.000I'm not sure where he's from, but every day on Telegram.
01:46:32.000And it was business as usual, except for the color, the dress, and the stat-proof vest, which I'm trying to get the Justice Department to pay more attention to, but they just don't like hearing.
01:47:30.000But even more novel was the obstruction statute, which is based on obstructing Congress when it's acting like it's court or taking testimony or doing subpoenas.
01:47:43.000It's an obstruction in the sense of you don't want to damage records.
01:47:46.000You don't want to intimidate witnesses.
01:48:51.000My problem with the obstruction is that Antifa has been doing it across the country, especially in the Pacific Northwest.
01:48:57.000We even had the Capitol, I think it was in Madison, Wisconsin, where they stormed in and prevented everyone from doing their job.
01:49:03.000And then Merrick Garland says, no, no, no, Antifa doesn't count because they do it at night when no one's there.
01:49:08.000And you go, no, they often do it at night, but Antifa and the radical left also do it in the day.
01:49:15.000So if this is going to be, obstruction is going to become interrupting the government in the day, then the prisons will be full of radical leftists.
01:49:24.000I agree with that, except that the Capitol, this is a special place on a special day during the day where they're doing something that most people knew or could have known was the certification of the vote.
01:49:38.000So it's like not the best bet and not the best, frankly, comparison.
01:49:44.000I mean, believe me, when I hear people talking about all the noises that were made about Trump's win in November 2016, people forget about that.
01:49:55.000They said that was like an invalid election.
01:49:59.000People made noises about it for four years.
01:50:37.000And if I look at this, you know, in an even-handed way, that's in front of me.
01:50:44.000And the judges are right to make comparisons between.
01:50:47.000I mean, some of the judges, to their credit, have actually, whether it's before them or not, have raised this saying, what about Antifa?
01:50:55.000Well, the answer, which came down with the denial of my motion to reopen detention hearings and the denial of the motion to dismiss, the answer was, well, it was a little different.
01:52:00.000And they said early on, and I think I remember the name of the judge, but I want to get it wrong.
01:52:09.000He was making a decision one way or the other and just raised on his own, I mean, why isn't the Justice Department coming after Antifa for doing this and that on the West Coast?
01:52:38.000And he also did, excuse me, want to make sure I got the right.
01:52:40.000It was during an oral argument, saying, you know, what's all that about?
01:52:45.000But people in court, and I'm not talking about the proceeding that I'm in, started raising the same argument.
01:52:51.000And a couple of judges did respond to it and say, you know, it's different.
01:52:58.000What happened, you know, a post office is not the United States Capitol, different time of day, different thing going on.
01:53:05.000And primarily what bothers the judges about whether they're Trump appointees, I think, Trump appointees or Obama appointees or Clinton appointees, is that there was something that happened that interfered with the peaceful transfer of power.
01:53:21.000And we're very proud that we do that in the United States a certain way.
01:53:25.000So they all seem to be united on that, if that helps answer your question.
01:53:34.000I'd love you to come to New York and we'll have a long sit-down because I think this is a three-hour discussion.
01:53:39.000But just to wrap it up, how can we donate?
01:53:42.000Is there any way to get money to any of the I appreciate your asking this?
01:53:47.000One of the problems has been that there hasn't been, and even people on the left agree with me on this, there should be access to funds or access to courts, money for people like the Proud Boys, and I don't mean Joe Biggs and Henry Terrier.
01:54:05.000One of the problems has been, though, that people who want to write $5,000 checks rather than $50 checks or $5 checks don't want to use credit card transactions, don't want to use these fundraisers.
01:54:19.000Some of the fundraisers are more legitimate than others.
01:54:22.000So we're trying to come up with now some kind of device whereby people could give anonymously, safely, and get these people the help they need.
01:54:59.000Other people are working on it and working on it fast because this is coming up and there is a crisis of resources here to a certain extent.
01:55:09.000Yeah, I mean, I want to just go from David and Goliath to Goliath versus Goliath.
01:55:29.000And if half the people in this country, and I think this is true, have ideas or feelings about the way the country is going or has been going for the last 20 years that are very similar to the Proud Boys culturally, and I think they do, there's a lot of support,
01:55:47.000but it's been difficult to bring that out without losing it or without having USAI Today shut it down.
01:55:56.000And I even know people who work for some of our most liberal newspapers who think that funds should be available to people no matter who they are.
01:56:05.000The Justice Department are bringing really good lawyers to these cases.
01:57:21.000We're talking about Michael Graves doing a concert.
01:57:23.000Let's get Graves on the line and ask him.
01:57:27.000Because that's more evidence that this was not planned.
01:57:30.000If they had a concert set up, they're going to go back to a party.
01:57:34.000Because I remember hearing something like, we can't have our guns in D.C. So let's make sure the after party is somewhere where we can have our guns.
01:57:56.000Just short and sweet, we're running low on time, but I was just talking to Dan Hall, Joe Biggs' lawyer, and the challenge with this whole case is to prove that they weren't conspiring to do this, and it was spontaneous.
01:58:10.000And then I just said to him, wait a minute, they had planned to go see Michael Graves do a show in Virginia at like 3 p.m.
01:58:43.000So we said, let's do it for January 6th.
01:58:47.000This way, after everybody does what they were going to do in the morning, I had some stuff to do.
01:58:53.000We were going to hook back up in the afternoon and just hang out and party to the night.
01:58:58.000And I was going to play a concert for everybody, specifically to keep everybody, you know, I wanted to keep everybody off the streets and out of trouble.
01:59:09.000And we thought that that was a good idea.
01:59:26.000I don't remember talking about particular times.
01:59:32.000The fifth, it was going to be like 7, 8 o'clock, but then it just didn't work out.
01:59:39.000Am I crazy or do I remember a flyer or some kind of thing that said like, Michael Graves, rocking out, blah, blah, blah.
01:59:47.000Well, I was, I played over on, it was Latinos for Trump stage on the morning of the 6th.
01:59:58.000So again, we really didn't, we were all going to rendezvous back at the Airbnb after, you know, after the whole march, after the president was done speaking.
02:00:10.000Everybody was going to march to the Capitol, and then we were going to rendezvous back.
02:00:14.000But things were so, got so out of control so quick that that didn't happen.
02:00:22.000Rufio didn't, I couldn't even get in touch with Rufio because he didn't have his phone.
02:01:47.000But what's ironic to me about the whole incident is that they are trying to say you're not allowed to crowdsource fund on GoFundMe and these other pages.
02:01:55.000But the Constitution guarantees a right to a public defender, self-defense, you know, defense in court.
02:02:01.000So people do underestimate how expensive this stuff is and litigation, and you can win, but millions of dollars.
02:02:10.000Yeah, and when you're up against the state, they have unlimited funds.
02:02:14.000There should be a thing where if you beat the state, they then have to pay your legal bills.
02:02:19.000That's not the way it is in the United States.
02:02:21.000That's the way it is in other countries.
02:02:22.000In one case that we were, civil case, I was involved in North Carolina.
02:02:27.000It went to a jury verdict, and the plaintiff was suing me for defamation because I quoted someone.
02:02:40.000And at jury verdict, right before the jury came out of the box to issue the judgment, the federal judge gaveled the case and said, this is completely ridiculous.
02:02:49.000He said, if someone sued Mike Wallace, now deceased from 60 Minutes, for the same things they're suing O'Keefe for, everyone in the courtroom would laugh.
02:02:59.000But because it's James O'Keefe, it somehow got this far.
02:03:02.000But I had to litigate for two, three years.
02:03:33.000And I could have settled the case for $50,000, $100,000, most likely.
02:03:37.000But on principle, I wanted to make sure that I was doing the right thing.
02:03:42.000That's the only way this can end, is people going to trial and fighting to the end.
02:03:47.000Because all of these settlements and all of these plea deals, they end up furthering this law affair where people are punishing others with no intention of going to court.
02:04:09.000Now, he sued the Post for defamation, and he actually had a great case, but he settled out of court, not for $250 million, as was reported.
02:04:23.000And because he probably wasn't a fighter as much as Rittenhouse was.
02:04:28.000So when Rittenhouse sues for defamation, I hope he doesn't settle out of court.
02:04:32.000I hope he deposes NBC News in the Washington West because it's the depositions where you get to see discovery, you depose them on videotape.
02:04:40.000That's when you can really expose them.
02:05:28.000Yes, litigation is very expensive, and there are very few people.
02:05:31.000I'm one of the only chairmen of any media company you will have ever met who has never really settled a lawsuit.
02:05:37.000And it's cost me unbelievable amounts of money, but you're right, Gavin.
02:05:41.000If you litigate it all the way to a jury verdict and then are willing to appeal it and you're in the right, you'll probably win.
02:05:46.000Most people think the American justice system is totally corrupt, but I don't actually believe that.
02:05:52.000I think it's actually the one branch of government which is less corrupt than any other.
02:05:56.000The federal judge in New York that ruled for a special master over the FBI, which is a very rare thing to be granted, that was an Obama-appointed federal judge.
02:06:06.000Yes, in New York, a federal southern district of New York.
02:06:09.000And you're talking about the guy who said, give James O'Keefe his stuff back.
02:06:13.000This was a federal judge who ordered the FBI to stop rummaging through my phone and ordered what's called a special master, which is effectively a babysitter over the FBI, so that those prosecutors no longer have that possession.
02:06:29.000But what I'm trying to say to you is you have to be willing to fight them in court all the way to the end, which is very important in this day and age.
02:09:28.000But yeah, we're all on the same page on this.
02:09:31.000And the reason it's important, even to people outside of America that are watching this episode, is this is what happens to the justice system.
02:09:38.000This is what happens in our clown world when optics dominate truth.
02:09:43.000And media, fake news, bullshit leaves men in prison.
02:10:11.000And right now, their rights are being murdered by this cabal of media, a corrupt justice system, corrupt prosecutors.
02:10:24.000I mean, the media and the justice system have colluded to destroy these people's lives in the name of hurting Trump.
02:10:33.000The modern left is a crazy ex-girlfriend, and she's outside your house right now with a brick in her hand, and her hair's all like messy and kind of dreaded, and she's twitching one eye, and there's makeup running down her face.