Goldie Ghamari - December 11, 2025


Douglas Murray： Great Men Will Save The West


Episode Stats


Length

1 hour and 59 minutes

Words per minute

143.90202

Word count

17,189

Sentence count

631

Harmful content

Misogyny

13

sentences flagged

Toxicity

92

sentences flagged

Hate speech

132

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 This is welcome to be a exclusive app by W 750 FNkoifa,
00:00:03.620 and you can email me at www.w 200.wanza.movers Caoimho and
00:00:25.300 Thank you.
00:00:55.300 Thank you.
00:01:25.300 Thank you.
00:01:55.300 Well, good afternoon, everyone.
00:02:24.720 Hello, Shalom, wherever you are. Thank you for joining me for another live stream of the Goldie
00:02:31.800 Show. I'm your host, Goldie Gamari. And we have a very interesting episode today. By your request,
00:02:39.920 I'm going to be playing something by Douglas Murray. If you don't know who Douglas Murray is,
00:02:48.200 you probably haven't really been focusing too much on geopolitics, but that's okay. That's okay.
00:02:54.220 Douglas Murray is a UK-based writer and political analyst.
00:03:03.880 He is the number one best-selling author of eight books, including On Democracies and Death Cults.
00:03:10.560 He's a columnist. He's a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute.
00:03:16.420 And a little bragging point here, he follows me on X. 0.85
00:03:19.440 I actually had an opportunity to meet him two years ago when he was in Toronto, and he has been speaking out a lot about the threat of radical Islam and how that's impacting not just his country, the UK, but Western civilization in general.
00:03:45.600 And so, of course, many of the Islamists like to call him, you know, Islamophobic or whatever.
00:03:53.300 But of course, for the rest of us, he is a fearless truth teller and he's not afraid to speak out and focus on facts when necessary.
00:04:07.200 So if you haven't seen his interviews, I'm happy to play some afterwards.
00:04:11.040 But I found this really interesting documentary from him on his YouTube channel, actually.
00:04:18.600 It's called Douglas Murray, Great Men Will Save the Rest.
00:04:23.680 And I did a little bit of a sneak peek, and we know that this is going to be good because one of the people in this podcast is none other than Ayan Hirsi Ali,
00:04:38.580 whom I absolutely love, one of my heroes, and I've actually featured her on my live stream
00:04:45.580 as well. So without further ado, let's get started here. Let me just go back to the beginning
00:04:54.600 here. All right, and don't forget to like, share, and subscribe to the YouTube channel.
00:05:08.580 So Luke, presenter, contributor, cameraman, sound engineer.
00:05:25.940 I know, I'm a sort of technical genius now.
00:05:27.940 I didn't know this.
00:05:28.540 Okay, so we're definitely on.
00:05:35.000 Yeah, we're definitely on.
00:05:35.960 We're recording.
00:05:37.120 We can start at any moment.
00:05:38.580 um which is now um so douglas murray is a man who needs no introduction
00:05:47.700 but here's one anyway he has for years been one of britain's leading cultural commentators and
00:05:53.060 writers uh on the conservative side of things uh he is the author of many best-selling books
00:06:00.020 including the madness of crowds and the wall in the west and he's the associate editor at the
00:06:06.020 spectator and last night douglas you were here in new york winning the uh hamilton award i was
00:06:13.620 being honored by the manhattan institute with the hamilton award which is the annual award
00:06:18.420 to give out and i had the great pleasure of being introduced by i am incredible you guys go way back
00:06:23.700 um you've worked with nathan before and i've known you for a little bit as well
00:06:27.540 so we're sort of thrilled to have you on our restoration podcast it's a great pleasure to
00:06:31.060 be with you all right yes and you have been a friend for a very long time and a supporter and
00:06:40.180 a defender i have so much to ask you but the first question i want to begin with because i'm
00:06:46.820 fascinated by your speech last night and i know that we're going to fix it
00:06:52.020 It's when we say last night, but you were awarded the Alexander Hamilton Prize by the Manhattan Institute,
00:07:03.500 and you gave a speech, and it's probably one of the most inspiring speeches I've had.
00:07:08.960 Oh, thank you.
00:07:10.080 What stayed with me was that rhetorical question that you posed of what young people,
00:07:17.220 if they are confronted today with what israel was confronted on the 7th of october if something
00:07:24.180 similar happened you know what i want to do uh because like i'm doing um uh like a dry watch of
00:07:32.340 this podcast and if i and her see ali is saying that his speech was fantastic maybe what we should
00:07:42.820 do before continuing with this podcast is um is watch that speech uh the one that he gave the
00:07:50.900 night before they filmed this podcast so that then we could actually have some context as to what
00:07:59.780 this particular podcast is um is all about do you guys agree should i do that
00:08:04.660 all right okay let me let me pull up his um award speech from the manhattan institute
00:08:16.080 i'm the boss okay all right well i mean i guess i mean i am technically in control
00:08:22.000 of the show but uh you know um i do i do like to you know i want your input as well guys i mean i
00:08:30.100 want your your input um your feedback as well like i'm doing this for you guys you know if i was just
00:08:36.100 going to do it for myself i would just you know be staring at my camera and not go um not go online
00:08:42.980 so okay so here i i found his speech um so this was from one year ago all right let's see what
00:08:48.500 this says here um oh wow the speech has almost half a million views okay so it says the hamilton
00:08:54.340 award dinner is a special night in the life of the institute it provides us with an opportunity to
00:08:59.220 honor deserving individuals who embody the mission of the manhattan institute advancing opportunity
00:09:05.220 individual liberty and the rule of law in america and its great cities this year we were delighted
00:09:13.060 to honor douglas murray his unwavering defense of western values and ross pro jr for representing
00:09:19.380 the best of civic engagement in dallas throughout texas douglas murray i want to dedicate this award
00:09:25.700 to the people of israel of all ages who in the face of absolute death cults in the face of people
00:09:32.820 who most people in this country have no idea of can't imagine what these people are capable of
00:09:38.580 i want to dedicate my acceptance of this award to the people of israel who in the face of death
00:09:43.860 choose life thank you um all right let's let's watch his acceptance speech let me make sure
00:09:49.620 captions are turned on as well well thank you so much Ayaan it's such a
00:09:59.700 pleasure being friends with Ayaan a great honor and it's a great honor to me
00:10:03.420 that you've introduced me here tonight I'm slightly nervous because I'm not
00:10:07.380 used to friendly crowds and I think it's a first so please bear with me if I
00:10:15.840 stutter or lose my train of thought i'd like to thank paul singer the chairman of the manhattan
00:10:23.440 institute rayhan salam the president and also the great pleasure of being a co-honoree with ross pro
00:10:30.560 junior it's my view that that none of us come into the world fully formed by any means and
00:10:41.280 I wanted also to take a moment to mention the fact that there are many people in this room
00:10:46.960 here tonight who've helped to form me and you will know who you are and I'm not going to
00:10:54.240 name names or hold anyone personally responsible but
00:11:00.320 I'm also very deeply honored to receive this award because looking at the list of previous honorees
00:11:06.400 they include so many other people who i credit with part of my intellectual evolution
00:11:15.040 not least daniel patrick moinehan william f buckley and tom wolf but i'd also like
00:11:23.840 i open my remarks to cite a fellow emigre writer to this city who's no longer with us but made a
00:11:31.680 huge impression on me and I know Ayaan had the enormous honor of meeting. That's the great
00:11:37.440 Italian journalist Oriana Fallaci. I mention her because she wrote a great book about the war in
00:11:45.440 Vietnam called Nothing and Amen and it starts with one of the best lines that I know in any book.
00:11:54.480 book, it opens with her niece, her young child niece, asking her a question. The question
00:12:03.900 is, life, what is it, Oriana? And the next sentence is, she says, the next morning, I
00:12:13.600 went to Vietnam to find out. Now, it seems to me that the nature of being a writer is
00:12:21.600 to get to the essence of things, to get to the nature of things,
00:12:26.160 to try to work out life in its totality,
00:12:31.720 whether that's, as I've done recently,
00:12:33.800 writing about the fentanyl epidemic in this country
00:12:37.120 and all of the monstrous things that come from it,
00:12:40.120 or from the many war zones I've reported from.
00:12:44.080 The purpose, I suppose, is to try to get to the truth.
00:12:48.560 And the truth is not just an abstract thing, but specifically a truth about ourselves as human beings.
00:12:58.280 And I suppose in that case, it's inevitable that a writer would be drawn to war,
00:13:03.520 because war is in some ways the ultimate subject.
00:13:08.960 Because it shows us, human beings, at our very worst, and also at our very best,
00:13:17.360 a couple of years ago i was reporting from ukraine with the uh ukrainian armed forces as they were
00:13:25.300 taking territory back briefly all too briefly from the russian advance i always think of the woman i
00:13:32.660 wrote about her in my column in the new york post i always think of the woman of 28 beautiful blonde
00:13:38.540 woman i met at the very front line it was in the cold of november and she had given birth to her
00:13:46.560 first child the month before the Russians invaded and she told me when I
00:13:52.260 said what did you do she said I gave my child to my mother in Kiev and I haven't
00:13:57.660 seen her since there's no rotation there's no rotation we don't have the
00:14:03.180 luxury of rotation in the army at the moment I think of all the people I've
00:14:08.880 seen in Iraq and Ukraine northern Nigeria where the Christians are under
00:14:15.080 such terrible and almost ignored persecution and from many other places, but I've never 1.00
00:14:22.320 seen as much of the best and the worst of humankind as I have in the past six months 0.99
00:14:29.760 in Israel and Gaza. I was here in New York on the 7th of October, and on the 8th of October,
00:14:39.220 I went down to Times Square, and there were these men and women waving signs celebrating the massacre of the previous day.
00:14:52.520 They weren't calling for a two-state solution.
00:14:54.640 They weren't saying, we'd awfully like to do some borderline territory swaps in the West Bank. 0.78
00:15:03.260 No, no, it was all celebrating the massacre.
00:15:05.840 and some of them were doing it and they were holding these signs in Times Square by any means.
00:15:11.820 They were also celebrating in Canada. In fact, they didn't even wait until October 8. These
00:15:19.280 savages were literally out there on October 7 in the evening. They were out celebrating
00:15:26.900 like the genocidal massacre. It was shocking. It was absolutely disgusting. And for me,
00:15:34.300 was actually that moment when i realized that we have a really really big um jihadi problem in canada
00:15:44.860 um i mean i i always knew that there were you know people who thought a certain way
00:15:52.620 um in in canada i just never thought that there would be that many and i also never thought that
00:15:59.260 they would be bold enough to actually go out and celebrate when islamic terrorists um
00:16:07.580 mass murdered uh innocent innocent people in israel like it was it was just absolutely 0.86
00:16:12.700 horrific to to see that and um it was a very very big um and chilling wake-up call for me personally 0.53
00:16:22.460 to see the depth of anti-Semitism and, you know, radical Islamism
00:16:30.820 that had quietly infiltrated Canadian society. 0.63
00:16:35.040 And, I mean, it was, of course, unfortunately, the same all over in Western countries.
00:16:41.780 ...means necessary.
00:16:44.060 I'm going to go back a bit.
00:16:45.480 ...the massacre.
00:16:46.700 And some of them were doing it, and they were holding these signs in Times Square.
00:16:49.900 By any means necessary.
00:16:52.460 at a time when we already knew what those memes included,
00:16:56.320 and in fact when the massacre was still going on.
00:16:59.960 And I thought then, when I said this in the post,
00:17:03.040 I thought then that a couple of things were obvious.
00:17:05.580 The first was I had to get to Israel as soon as I could.
00:17:09.420 The second was that we were going to see a kind of Holocaust denialism in real time,
00:17:14.880 and therefore I thought I should see with my own eyes everything that had happened,
00:17:19.440 everything I could see.
00:17:20.440 and the third was that i noticed already what i said a couple of days after the seventh i said
00:17:28.120 there are some times in your life when a flare goes up and everybody can be seen precisely where
00:17:35.260 they're standing and that seemed to me to be exactly what happened i went straight to the
00:17:45.380 sites of the massacres to the hospitals where the uh the wounded were recovering i won't
00:17:56.020 give you all of the or even any of the terrible stories you can hear from there i joined the
00:18:03.140 experts in the more as in the uh i joined the uh pathologists in the morgues of tel aviv as
00:18:12.980 they were trying to identify the dead. An unbelievable task which they do with extraordinary
00:18:21.780 delicacy and religiosity, actually. I spent a lot of time with the families of the kidnapped
00:18:28.980 and with the survivors of the Nova Party. But I also had the great opportunity to witness
00:18:36.820 firsthand Israel's response, because unlike some countries today, Israel doesn't just
00:18:44.260 sit back with equanimity when it's attacked, much as some of the world would like it to
00:18:49.520 do so. One of the fences that the terrorists broke into on the 7th, and I thought immediately
00:18:57.540 as well after the 7th, people aren't going to realize the scale of this. This was a 4,000-person
00:19:02.500 battalion-sized terrorist attack that aimed to go all the way up the center of the country. 0.99
00:19:10.020 I felt rather proud, actually, to go back through that fence with the IDF
00:19:18.260 when they were going into Gaza in search of the hostages.
00:19:22.980 I saw the tunnel networks that Hamaz has spent all these years building with your money and mine.
00:19:29.540 I have a friend from the British Army, Colonel Richard Kemp, and one day we were standing
00:19:36.000 underneath one of the tunnels that Sinoir had built and which he's videoed going through. 1.00
00:19:40.800 This is a mastermind of the Seventh.
00:19:43.280 And I said to Richard, who like me is a fan of dark humor, I said, this is about the size
00:19:51.480 and width of the London Underground.
00:19:53.400 And he said, yeah, and I hear it's even longer than the London Underground.
00:19:58.660 And I had the opportunity to say, and I think it's rather better run.
00:20:07.740 But it was, I suppose I can say as much as any person could, that I saw it all.
00:20:14.080 And on the day I left Israel a few days ago, 0.99
00:20:16.900 I was the first person allowed in to see the Hamas terrorists
00:20:21.220 who'd committed the atrocities of the seventh in the prison cells in which they're held.
00:20:25.740 i mention all of this really to say what do i make of all this
00:20:31.260 i'd like to say the first thing i would like to do is something even more heretical than what
00:20:37.540 paul singer did earlier um i'm going to quote scripture
00:20:42.180 i think often of the line from deuteronomy when god says i've set before you life and death
00:20:53.660 blessing and cursing
00:20:55.780 therefore choose life 0.99
00:20:58.040 that you and your descendants
00:20:59.980 might live
00:21:00.940 and I think also of the psalmists
00:21:04.220 who said
00:21:04.940 I shall not die
00:21:07.560 but I shall live
00:21:09.100 because when I think of the seventh
00:21:12.020 now I don't only think of the
00:21:14.140 victims I think of the
00:21:16.100 extraordinary heroes
00:21:17.820 and I want to mention
00:21:19.940 them to you above all
00:21:22.300 as a young man is a friend of mine in his 30s on the morning of the seventh he woke up in
00:21:28.600 jerusalem realized the seriousness of what was going on got into his car drove south collected
00:21:34.800 some guns left a farewell message to his children and his wife on his phone
00:21:41.680 got a call from his company commander on the road saying you have to come back to base in
00:21:48.720 Jerusalem, and he said, no, we're needed south now. And his battalion commander said, are you
00:21:55.360 defying an order? He said, yes, I'm defying an order. We're needed in the south. And he fought
00:22:01.140 for the next 48 hours, and he survived. I think of my friend Moshe, who I've had the great good
00:22:09.140 fortune of being with for many months. He said, now my cameraman, or was from the beginning, and
00:22:14.400 The first day we were together, we donned our battle armor and helmets on the Gaza border.
00:22:23.060 And I noted that Moshe had a bullet mark down the top of his helmet.
00:22:29.020 And he hadn't mentioned anything about it.
00:22:31.340 I said, where's that from?
00:22:33.380 And he explained that it was from the 7th.
00:22:35.120 He, every Saturday, would go down to see a friend of his in Kfar Aza, also in the media.
00:22:40.020 And he drove right into the middle of the firefight on the highway.
00:22:43.120 he got out and he fought and he killed three terrorists with his own gun that he carries
00:22:48.580 with him thank goodness and he fought for the next two days and he doesn't expect any applause
00:22:57.240 from it or anything like that just did what he had to do i think of the extraordinary druse men
00:23:02.660 who provided the food at the party at the nova party and who i met a few months ago some weeks
00:23:08.840 after the atrocities and he described to me not just what they'd seen at the party which the world
00:23:15.000 was already trying to deny but what they'd done and they didn't see themselves as heroes at all
00:23:20.040 but because they could understand arabic they saved so many young jews that morning and when
00:23:27.960 i said to them why among other things did you do it they're proud israelis they're druze they said
00:23:34.200 the hamas hate us even more than they hate the jews i think of the muslim doctor who hamas held 0.61
00:23:40.280 as a uh as a human shield at one point in the morning and even after being wounded saved the
00:23:46.040 lives of other israelis i think of the extraordinary people of the united had salah
00:23:51.400 sort of first responders unit they all get an alert on their phone and they all go off and
00:23:58.360 address a car crash and i spoke to the head of that organization in jerusalem he said in
00:24:03.080 30 years of doing this job the whole 30 years altogether wasn't like one minute that morning
00:24:12.280 the lights just went off everywhere and i think of a young woman called adi brook
00:24:20.360 she was 23 and i was with her family in uh december in uh judea and samaria she
00:24:27.080 She was a beautiful girl, a photographer, and she decided she had to go and re-enlist after the 7th, and she did.
00:24:36.360 Her parents begged her not to, but she said she had to, and she was killed on her first day by a rocket that landed on her in Sterot.
00:24:46.880 But her parents shared with me the note that she'd left for them, in case she didn't make it, and in it she said, among other things, how sorry she was.
00:24:55.440 But she said, I wanted to live life, and now I want you to live it for me.
00:25:02.880 I think, finally, of the extraordinary evening in November last year.
00:25:09.860 I was at the Schneider Children's Hospital when the helicopters came,
00:25:14.200 returning the first hostages, the first children, 0.98
00:25:17.120 who Hamazes stole them from their homes in the south. 0.80
00:25:21.820 And we'd been waiting for them for two days. 0.66
00:25:24.400 there were two days of thwarted exchanges where Hamas deliberately eked it out, eked it out,
00:25:29.520 more and more torture for families. But when the helicopters emerged, there were two of them,
00:25:36.880 they emerged in the night sky, and the people of Tel Aviv realized what was happening.
00:25:43.040 And every car stopped. I was standing right on the top of the hospital. Every single car in Tel
00:25:49.440 aviv stopped and uh suddenly i noticed there was applause from the citizens the televivians
00:26:00.160 and then there was singing singing all the way through the streets of tel aviv
00:26:06.240 and i said to my cameraman what what are they singing and they were singing a song
00:26:13.600 we brought you peace and i learned afterwards that speaking to the helicopter commander that
00:26:19.440 there was such intense competition among the helicopter pilots
00:26:23.140 to have the good fortune, the honor of returning these children home.
00:26:30.960 Now, there's millions of stories like this across Israel, absolutely millions.
00:26:35.720 The country rings with them, it resounds with them.
00:26:40.520 And it makes me think a lot about home, my home here in America, my home in the UK.
00:26:47.340 There have been polls over the last couple of years asking Americans and British people,
00:26:56.380 what would you do if your country was invaded?
00:27:01.120 And a couple of years ago, when Ukraine was invaded, there was a poll here in the U.S.
00:27:06.380 And it found that a, I don't want to make a partisan point, but let me risk it.
00:27:13.940 You might guess.
00:27:16.120 It turned out that a minority of Democrat voters said they would stay and fight for their country.
00:27:23.980 A slight majority of Republican voters said they would.
00:27:27.820 But it ended up with only 52% of the American public saying they would stay and fight.
00:27:35.080 I assume the rest would hot-foot it to Canada, assuming that Canada wasn't the one invading.
00:27:41.320 which is one of the very few things in geopolitics i'm i like to hold um but when i looked at those
00:27:51.640 in the uk there was an even worse one a few months ago the the pollsters asked young british people
00:27:57.200 when the defense secretary said that there's a possibility we might have to have enlistment in
00:28:01.060 the uk for young people a mere 27 of young people said they would be willing to be enlisted to fight
00:28:07.560 for their country these i don't need to tell you are not good results and they bring a whole set of
00:28:17.480 questions behind them beneath them some of which i wrote about in my last book i mean it doesn't
00:28:22.680 surprise me at any rate that a lot of young americans wouldn't be willing to fight for
00:28:26.680 their country if they've been told from the cradle that their country was rotten from birth
00:28:32.520 and have nothing going for it other than slavery colonialism and everything else
00:28:39.240 you've really got to miseducate americans into this kind of self-loathing
00:28:50.440 and a lot of that um miseducation as douglas murray calls it comes from um foreign bad actors
00:28:59.480 who have been investing billions of dollars in American universities.
00:29:04.060 I spoke about that in my live stream a few days ago.
00:29:07.400 It's called Qatar 101 Part 2.
00:29:11.180 Yeah, like young people are being indoctrinated to hate their identity
00:29:17.660 and to hate their country. 0.70
00:29:19.580 And that's a big help for the communists and the jihadists 0.59
00:29:24.580 jihadists and the anti-imperialists who eventually want to destabilize western countries and take over
00:29:35.380 but i compare this i compare this to what i've seen in the last six months and actually
00:29:43.620 a number of my readers and viewers have said to me in the last six months you
00:29:48.420 you've changed, Douglas, and I sometimes ask them what it is they think,
00:29:55.700 and they said, you've lost some of your pessimism.
00:30:02.740 And I said to them, you know, there's a reason for that.
00:30:06.820 And the reason is what I've seen in the Israeli public.
00:30:11.780 Because actually, this wasn't theoretical. It wasn't a poll question.
00:30:16.980 it wasn't some dolts on an american campus cosplaying being terrorists for the day 0.98
00:30:24.140 their pathetic attempts to i mean what's the latest one they they they're now in la they're 0.97
00:30:34.780 doing call to prayers there's a guy in new york who's got a belly button and a crop top and 0.86
00:30:42.880 At the beginning of this academic year, he was on camera calling for a climate emergency,
00:30:48.880 and now he's for Hamas. 1.00
00:30:52.900 I suppose he's queers for Palestine, and chickens for KFC, and all that. 1.00
00:31:08.060 And I would love to drop him into Gaza. 1.00
00:31:12.880 Although, as I've occasionally said, I'm not sure there are very many tall buildings to throw him off,
00:31:19.080 but once they rebuild them, that guy will have about a day.
00:31:27.040 He'll be introduced to the elevator fast, I reckon.
00:31:32.620 One of the great things about Israel at the moment is, my friend Barry Weiss said when she arrived in February, 0.73
00:31:37.400 she said, isn't it wonderful to be in a country where nobody gives a damn about woke?
00:31:42.880 I said, it's so true, nobody bothers about pronouns, life is too serious, reality is right in front of you.
00:31:54.940 Now, it seems to me that there's a lesson for this, and it's not a lesson for Israel, it's a lesson for us, for you and me,
00:32:04.680 for us if we are going to restore countries like Great Britain and the United States of America.
00:32:12.880 You know, I spoke some months ago with an older guy in Tel Aviv who said to me,
00:32:19.560 he'd fought in the 1967 and the 1973 wars, and he said,
00:32:24.200 I owe the younger generation in Israel an apology. 0.78
00:32:29.560 He said, I used to say they don't have it in them. 1.00
00:32:33.760 They've become, they like partying.
00:32:38.240 They like being on Instagram and TikTok.
00:32:40.360 and he said I owe them an apology they've been magnificent and the thing is is that perhaps it
00:32:48.680 does require life to become serious again perhaps the students that we see these destroyed
00:32:56.580 universities perhaps they just need a dose of reality someday I always pray that that day in
00:33:06.600 some ways never comes to them because it'll be the biggest wake-up call anyone has ever had.
00:33:14.040 But all I would say is that this country, Great Britain, should be so lucky as to have a young 1.00
00:33:23.320 generation like that in Israel. They were weighed in the balance since October the 7th and they've 1.00
00:33:29.880 they've been found to be magnificent.
00:33:42.540 And so what I wanted to say was, really, in closing,
00:33:45.580 is that question, I suppose, of Oriana Falaci's.
00:33:50.260 I wonder what I've learned about life.
00:33:52.780 I'm going to give you, I'm afraid, a circular definition.
00:33:56.380 that life has to be fought for, and it has to be cherished.
00:34:03.040 And that what Israel has been up against is not just a people of death, but a cult of death. 0.76
00:34:10.780 A cult which wishes to annihilate an entire race, 0.94
00:34:16.300 and which, after dealing with that race, has made very clear what it wants to do with Christians, 0.52
00:34:22.180 Americans, everyone in Britain, everyone in America, and everyone else next.
00:34:28.500 They don't hide it at all. 0.99
00:34:32.640 And we're merely stupid in not believing them. 0.99
00:34:36.700 And I suppose for those people in America who don't believe them, I'd say, slumber 1.00
00:34:42.000 on as long as you can.
00:34:45.360 I wanted, therefore, just to say I want to thank the Manhattan Institute and you for
00:34:52.040 this deep honor but i want to dedicate it to the people of israel of all ages who in the face of
00:35:05.240 life of in the face of absolute death cults in the face of people who most people in this country
00:35:12.020 have no idea of can't imagine what these people are capable of i want to dedicate my acceptance
00:35:18.660 of this award to the people of Israel who in the face of death choose life. Thank you.
00:35:31.680 Wow, what a great speech. That was, I'm glad we paused the podcast so we could go back and watch
00:35:38.260 that because now that speech will give us some context for what they're speaking about here.
00:35:44.940 So I'm just going to go back a little bit, just sort of to the beginning again.
00:35:52.520 And now we can get started with this podcast.
00:35:56.780 All right.
00:35:59.520 So Douglas Murray is a man who needs no introduction, but he's one anyway.
00:36:04.200 He has for years been one of Britain's leading cultural commentators and writers on the conservative side of things.
00:36:10.740 He is the author of many best-selling books
00:36:14.700 including The Madness of Crowds and The War on the West
00:36:17.800 and he's the associate editor at The Spectator
00:36:21.380 and last night, Douglas, you were here in New York
00:36:24.980 winning the Hamilton Award
00:36:27.940 I was being honoured by the Manhattan Institute
00:36:30.440 with the Hamilton Award, which is an annual award to give out
00:36:33.820 and I had the great pleasure of being introduced by IAM
00:36:36.000 Incredible, you guys go way back
00:36:37.860 you've worked with Nathan before and I've known you for a little bit as well
00:36:41.960 so we're sort of thrilled to have you on our restoration podcast
00:36:45.140 it's a great pleasure to be with you
00:36:46.680 all right I guess and you have been a friend for a very long time
00:36:51.720 and a supporter and a defender
00:36:55.700 I love so much to ask you but the first question I want to begin with
00:37:01.120 because I'm fascinated by your speech last night
00:37:04.420 and I know that we're going to fix it
00:37:06.960 when we say last night, but
00:37:09.980 you were awarded the Alexander
00:37:12.560 Hamilton
00:37:13.060 Prize by
00:37:16.420 the Manhattan Institute
00:37:18.280 and you gave a speech
00:37:19.480 and it's probably one of the most inspiring
00:37:22.380 speeches I've had.
00:37:23.760 What stayed with me was
00:37:26.280 that rhetorical question that you
00:37:28.240 posed of what
00:37:29.680 young people, if they
00:37:32.360 are confronted today with what
00:37:34.420 Israel was confronted
00:37:36.260 on the 7th of october if something similar happened in america or europe what would how
00:37:43.620 many people would actually sign up for that i wanted to reverse that because as you were talking
00:37:51.060 i thought oh my goodness the images of these people coming in actually siding with the other
00:37:56.900 side pose the other question which is how many people would actually side with the enemy I find
00:38:07.220 that much more frightening and I ask this question because I've been through so many exercises of 0.77
00:38:14.420 the reckoning with the second world war there were ordinary people who worked with Hitler's
00:38:21.620 scheme to take their neighbors and to take their fellow citizens to labor camps and gas chambers
00:38:29.620 and i lived in the netherlands when this economy was happening and it seemed that the hardest
00:38:35.460 question was not why didn't people go to war to fight against hitler um so someone in the youtube
00:38:44.260 chat was saying that um the the title shouldn't be great men will save the west it should be the
00:38:51.540 war on the west or betrayal of the global left um this is just the title of douglas murray's
00:38:56.180 podcast guys so that's why i have that title so if anyone wants to go and search for the video
00:39:02.660 they'll be able to do that so it's it's not something um that i came up with this is just
00:39:07.860 the name of the podcast video on his youtube channel artist's question was why did my neighbor
00:39:15.940 betray me why did this yes and that's i think the question really the question we have to ask
00:39:23.140 oh by the way there's another version of that which is what solzhenitsyn asks which is
00:39:26.980 when the when the terrorists started after petrograd in 1917 why when the secret police were
00:39:32.660 their weakest and they came to an apartment block in the day why did people and the rest of the
00:39:40.500 other people in the apartment block not just attack the secret police with whatever they had in their
00:39:44.420 hands and kill them wound them send them back to the headquarters and make sure this couldn't happen
00:39:51.380 and there's a couple of stories actually of that happening in petrograd in 1917 as a 0.99
00:39:55.620 as a woman who actually was pulled in off the street and some other people passing actually
00:40:01.940 stop the secret police getting her and they they get her in her apartment that night
00:40:09.300 but the answer as far as i can see that Solzhenitsyn says is um well the easiest answer to it is
00:40:17.540 because we didn't know it was too early and if you just said in 1917 this is going to end up
00:40:24.740 with the gulag um then maybe people would have resisted but they didn't know but i don't buy
00:40:31.540 that it's 2024 let me there are two ideologies now that are aligned and that are also primed
00:40:40.740 amongst themselves with dominance one is islamism the other one is it's neo-marxism that we call
00:40:47.220 wokeism it's 2024 and we know as clearly as daylight the logical outcome of both ideologies
00:40:58.340 and the one the islamist one it's only in 2018 that we saw what the islamic state of iraq and 0.66
00:41:06.740 syria was doing to the people we conquered uh the islamic regime in iran conquered iran in 1979 0.87
00:41:17.220 we know what they've been up to for the last 40 45 years we know that when we establish sharia law 0.76
00:41:24.580 exactly what happens so i want to know in 2024 why would a student in columbia or cambridge
00:41:33.300 university or penn state or mit or berkeley who are well-informed most well-informed generation
00:41:43.060 of all humankind okay the highest educated well the most well let's you know she she asked a very
00:41:53.460 good question especially like for someone like me and the millions of other iranians um who've 0.98
00:41:59.700 experienced sharia law and the islamic republic has been murdering us in the name of you know 0.98
00:42:05.300 allah and islam and muhammad for the last 47 years um to me it's it's mind-boggling that there are 0.98
00:42:12.740 now people in the west who are um trying to normalize uh you know sharia 0.84
00:42:19.540 as if it's something that's comparable to Western values or Western norms or has any sort of place
00:42:29.700 in Western civilization. There is no place for Sharia anywhere in the world, at least of all 1.00
00:42:36.800 in Western civilization. And so she's asking a very good question here about, she's wondering 0.99
00:42:43.000 why are all of these young people now starting to you know put out this message that sharia
00:42:52.700 you know it's just as good it's just a different type of law um and a lot of that has to do with 0.79
00:42:58.600 the with the um funding from foreign bad actors like qatar um that have been indoctrinating young 0.74
00:43:08.500 people for a very long time in in universities in places of higher education the most expensively 0.60
00:43:15.700 educated most expensively educated so the and i know that the germans and other europeans
00:43:23.620 in these happening exercises were saying we didn't know so that doesn't work now there's no way you
00:43:30.340 could say i didn't know i think there is a way i think quite a lot of people saying we don't know
00:43:34.660 I mean, look at the people who are denying October 7th and have spent the last six months, for instance,
00:43:39.900 completely unnecessarily denying that there were, for instance, rapes of Israeli women by Hamas on the day.
00:43:46.420 Why do they do that?
00:43:48.060 I mean, it can't be that they just haven't looked into it.
00:43:50.520 Or it can't be that they've looked into it and persuaded that the video evidence isn't what it is
00:43:56.340 and the evidence of the first responders isn't what it is and the evidence of the people in the morgues isn't what it is.
00:44:00.680 It's that they cannot face up to what their own side does.
00:44:04.660 So they're sort of willful ignorance, they're trying to psychologically insulate themselves from these horrors.
00:44:09.660 It reminds me of something, I don't want to make the obvious comparison, 0.61
00:44:13.660 but it reminds me of what people did after the Holocaust who still wanted to be Nazis.
00:44:18.660 There's a great book by a German writer, Bettina Stanteff, called Eichmann Before Jerusalem,
00:44:26.660 in which he described how these neo-Nazis in South America in the 1950s desperately wanted to believe that the Holocaust hadn't happened,
00:44:33.660 hadn't happened because they realized already it was a big problem for their side and they weren't
00:44:37.820 going to actually be able to get nazism back or fascism back in europe so long as there was this
00:44:41.640 pr problem which is how they saw it and they get eichmann in argentina and they have these
00:44:48.240 tape recording sessions with him in which among other things eichmann badly misreads his audience
00:44:53.620 with one of the most fascinating problems of the 20th century he gives these speeches explaining
00:44:59.660 how he killed six million Jews. 0.78
00:45:02.120 And the room goes silent when he finishes
00:45:04.460 because that's not what we wanted to hear.
00:45:07.440 Now, why did they not want to hear it? 0.83
00:45:09.020 Because they wanted to get around the Holocaust 0.72
00:45:10.900 because they realized that there was no way
00:45:12.600 you could do fascism or Nazism ever again. 0.95
00:45:15.420 You would have to walk through the Holocaust 0.96
00:45:16.940 and therefore it couldn't be done. 0.96
00:45:18.520 And that's what the people, I think,
00:45:19.740 it's eminently possible for them to try to get around it
00:45:23.880 because, I mean, if somebody I supported
00:45:27.120 or you supported, like, went into a country 1.00
00:45:30.300 and started raping women and shooting them in the head 1.00
00:45:33.140 as you raped them, I think the only thing we could do 1.00
00:45:36.760 would be to say, and we would say, is that that has happened 0.98
00:45:39.960 and it's appalling and I wonder whether my side's going wrong.
00:45:45.400 But that requires a degree of honesty,
00:45:49.200 which is much easier, and I think most people do,
00:45:52.220 just you get around it.
00:45:54.060 You can't walk through that. They get around it.
00:45:56.180 So they say, oh, it's been exaggerated, or it didn't happen, or I don't want to read about it, or it's PR, or what about Gaza?
00:46:01.680 And so there is a, it's easy for these people.
00:46:04.560 Yeah, so there is, okay, easy for these people, various forms of denial, trying to get around it.
00:46:10.340 And there's another feature of denial, and I remember a thinker in the Netherlands, Paul Scheffer, used to talk about it, and he called it indifference.
00:46:19.360 to what extent do we have people just large audiences who know and know perfectly well and
00:46:28.360 understand what it entails but take on maybe it's also a form of denial and it's a take on this
00:46:35.020 indifferent attitude it's not happening to me it's not happening in my neighborhood
00:46:39.760 it's happening there well there's something that happens i mean there's something fascinating that
00:46:45.440 happens with the nature of violence which is that it's like something shatters around you
00:46:51.400 it's my view it happens even though I know a bar fight the first time somebody throws a fist
00:46:58.160 everything changes and our late friend Clive James was in Cambridge in 1968 when the garden
00:47:05.280 hotel riots happened which big news in Cambridge at the time but not everybody historically
00:47:10.480 remembers it um there was a 68ers they were imitating it in cambridge england some reason
00:47:17.760 they protested outside this hotel and somebody threw a brick at the hotel and i remember clive
00:47:24.560 said that's when everything changed the nature of violence suddenly was on the table and
00:47:32.160 i think that if you're a student of columbia or whatever the really interesting thing i think i
00:47:39.760 I think I said this to you the other day, the really interesting thing I think that's happening at the moment 0.82
00:47:43.760 is that they've picked up an interesting tactic of Hamas, 0.58
00:47:47.760 and I think Eric Weinstein said this first, but they've picked up a tactic 0.98
00:47:51.760 which is, Hamas' tactic is please kill my people 0.95
00:47:55.760 for the cameras, or even kill me for the cameras, or 0.98
00:47:59.760 kill my son for the cameras, and students at Columbia and elsewhere 0.97
00:48:03.760 seem to be saying, hit me or hurt me 0.98
00:48:07.760 policemen for the cameras so it is such a sort of low-level version of something
00:48:16.160 which is a much more brutal level is is a tactic and the tactic I think we 0.89
00:48:21.880 should explain to the viewers is a tactic that's been utilized by Hamas
00:48:27.120 for decades which is to fight to use human beings as shields
00:48:33.860 civilians have shown hide behind children put their military facilities in mosques hospitals
00:48:44.180 and schools in markets knowing through well that when israel retaliates that it's these children
00:48:51.700 who will be killed and then there's the horror of war would be then on the screens of western 0.57
00:48:58.420 consumers of the news and that propaganda element from condemning israel is what works for them so
00:49:05.940 you are saying and eric is saying that that tactic is now being deployed by yes yes i wonder if
00:49:13.940 there's there's a connection between these two things if you if you're affronted with the horrible
00:49:21.300 violence that happened on october 7th and you're on the palestinian side which you really need 1.00
00:49:27.300 is to find something even worse 0.79
00:49:29.840 on the Israeli side.
00:49:31.140 And if you can't find something,
00:49:33.460 then you've got to make it happen yourself.
00:49:35.160 This is one way psychologically to rationalize.
00:49:38.060 To say, okay, fine,
00:49:39.720 those bad things did happen, 1.00
00:49:41.340 but Israel is now so much worse 0.91
00:49:43.600 that even with this, 0.92
00:49:45.140 it's all perfectly just
00:49:46.780 to raise that flag 1.00
00:49:48.860 and wrap yourself in that headscarf. 1.00
00:49:51.260 I think that's a good point to make there. 1.00
00:49:53.940 But it is easier then to say, 0.96
00:49:55.800 Let's condemn Israel from this distance. 0.62
00:50:00.840 But when we were attacked here in New York and in Paris and in London, 0.97
00:50:08.680 we gave permission, you know, through support to our government to chase them.
00:50:17.200 This is a phrase that Biden used, I think, when he was vice president. 0.98
00:50:22.980 We will chase them to the gates of hell. 0.98
00:50:25.060 That's right. 0.95
00:50:25.500 Yes, and so we were fine with that, but when Israel manages, doesn't even chase them to the gates of hell,
00:50:33.660 but is raging, walking this very delicate line, trying to preserve the lives of the civilians. 0.64
00:50:40.940 They are civilians that they have put in danger, while at the same time trying to neutralize them. 0.86
00:50:47.980 We condemn Israel. 0.95
00:50:49.460 I think that's where the element maybe comes in. 1.00
00:50:52.540 Is it because they're Jewish?
00:50:54.220 yeah of course that's a significant part of it um but i i also think there's there's an
00:51:00.000 interesting question which both you and i have spent significant parts of our lives cycling
00:51:04.000 which is what are you going to do about it this documentary or this um not documentary this
00:51:12.800 podcast it's a little too slow paced for me i feel like you know they're struggling a little
00:51:19.000 bit on what to talk about like once they hit the point they you know they finally get there and
00:51:24.360 then they they hit the point but it seems like it takes some time to get to their point and i just
00:51:31.820 kind of wish they would just go to go to the point of of of the issue here um and the audio isn't
00:51:41.300 really the the greatest so um oh we have a new member welcome greg thank you for um joining the
00:51:49.500 channel and now you're officially part of goldie's gang welcome i hope that you um enjoy the the
00:51:57.180 live streams um yeah guys this is just this is i mean he's saying good stuff but it's just very
00:52:04.400 very slow paced um like it's it's not going not going as fast as i want it to so um let me see
00:52:15.760 if i can find something else maybe because i mean he is a good speaker but um
00:52:25.680 okay here's one let me let me switch over to this one maybe okay
00:52:34.400 Ooh, okay. So maybe, maybe this one will be better. Let me just switch over here.
00:52:43.780 Because that one was, I mean, too, too conversational. Like, I just want to get to
00:52:48.920 the point here. Maybe that's me being a little impatient, but all right. Okay. So I found this
00:52:54.720 one um uncancelled history with douglas murray episode two colonialism wait
00:53:09.360 no that's not the one i wanted where is it oh here we go
00:53:15.840 this is the one i wanted thank you to all of you ladies and gentlemen thank you so much
00:53:19.680 So this is Douglas Murray on the rise of anti-Westernism and how to defeat it. So this is sort of on the same topic as as the other one. But I'm hoping that this will be a little bit more fast paced and, you know, not too much rambling on or conversational. Plus, this is from November 11. So this is only about a month ago. So there we go. And you know, it's a it's a PragerU. So you know, it's going to be good.
00:53:49.360 all right let's um let's watch this one instead so much marissa that for that very kind introduction
00:53:56.240 and that very heavy award um i'm uh i'm going to enjoy getting that through the airport latest
00:54:04.880 night i was actually just telling erin backstage that uh many years ago i was um in israel and
00:54:12.160 there was a uh i was in the town of sterot and the mayor gave me something which then about 15
00:54:18.560 years ago was not very well known, but it was a company called From Rockets to Roses.
00:54:24.480 And they were turning the Katyusha rockets that landed in their town into works of art.
00:54:32.560 And they gave me, as a thank you, a tall sort of rose that had been made out of this rocket with
00:54:42.480 a very heavy base. And as I say, the company was new. I was going through Ben Gurion Airport the
00:54:48.800 next day to head back to my then home in London, and the LL security staff, who some of you will
00:54:58.400 have had the pleasure of meeting, said, anyone give you anything while you're in Israel?
00:55:06.180 And I said, yeah, sure, this is this.
00:55:09.300 And I opened my bag, and I showed them this.
00:55:11.960 And they were looking at it, and eventually they brought over all their friends,
00:55:16.680 and everybody in the airport was looking at the gift that I'd declared.
00:55:20.900 And eventually I explained it, and about half an hour later,
00:55:24.660 the El Al man said, so apart from Katusha rocket,
00:55:28.820 anyone give you anything in Israel?
00:55:30.260 I wanted to just say a few things
00:55:38.020 tonight in the time that we're together
00:55:40.500 as Marissa was very kind to note
00:55:43.860 I left my home in London some five years ago
00:55:48.200 to move to New York
00:55:49.560 and I suppose I'm open to offers of where to move next
00:55:53.180 and there's a lot to say
00:55:58.960 about some of the things that are going on
00:56:03.060 in all of our countries in the West at the moment.
00:56:07.500 But I want to talk about two things in particular.
00:56:13.400 You know, many centuries ago, Martin Luther,
00:56:17.520 a great figure of the Reformation in Europe,
00:56:20.620 observed that mankind is like a drunkard on a horse.
00:56:25.240 And he falls off the horse to the right, he clambers back on, and he falls off to the left.
00:56:34.940 Martin Luther was not talking politically, not least because it would be some centuries before the idea of left or right even entered the political lexicon.
00:56:45.080 But it's been on my mind recently, this idea of falling off the horse to the left or to the right.
00:56:55.240 In New York, as you'll know, we've just had somebody who is a self-avowed, self-declared, completely proud socialist, among other things.
00:57:09.700 The president, of course, says he's a communist. You might all have your own views about that, but it seemed inconceivable until very recently that somebody whose politics are founded in anti-Westernism should be in charge of the greatest city in the world, the biggest, most important city in America.
00:57:36.640 Sorry to those of you who are locals here, but that's just the stats.
00:57:42.020 It seemed impossible to people that you'd actually have somebody who's declared repeatedly
00:57:46.480 that his politics are founded in this anti-Westernism.
00:57:52.000 That is also, of course, anti-capitalism, of course, anti-Israelism.
00:57:58.420 What exactly the ideology of our new mayor is, is disputed by some,
00:58:03.480 but I think it's actually rather obvious.
00:58:05.000 his own father laid down the blueprint for his career.
00:58:10.400 His father, of course, was a Columbia professor
00:58:13.040 who could think that anything bad could come out of Columbia.
00:58:19.000 The mayor, by the way, has the extraordinary distinction
00:58:22.960 of having a parent on the faculty of Columbia
00:58:25.260 but couldn't get in himself.
00:58:26.860 but his father's own work is is dedicated to what is known as third worldism it is the belief that
00:58:41.400 essentially everything that we have in the west is the problem is the cause of all the world's
00:58:48.000 problems nothing in the rest of the world can go wrong unless we have made it so they can look at
00:58:56.400 China will say, well, aren't there human rights abuses? And they'll say, well, look at the opium 0.60
00:59:02.900 wars. This is, you can say something that is going wrong in the Middle East or the Far East,
00:59:10.780 and they will say, but colonialism. He will point out some human rights abuse on the other end of
00:59:17.880 the planet, and they will say, what about the slave trade? As if this was something that only
00:59:23.040 america ever engaged in this third worldism or anti-westernism has never had such a prominent
00:59:32.960 advocate at the heart of america and this it seems to me presents a huge challenge to those of us
00:59:42.800 on the right those of us on the conservative side because we at least have to engage with
00:59:48.960 what arguments people like Mamdani put across. Sometimes people put across the argument in
00:59:55.600 response to people like him that there's some specific issue that you can nix. And I just
01:00:04.080 wanted to say that that's, in my view, massively understating and minimizing the scale of the
01:00:11.200 challenge that somebody like him poses. Some people in the room I've discussed this with
01:00:16.880 many times before, but essentially what somebody like Mamdani is relying on is a set of very basic
01:00:25.440 base human instincts which the conservative side has to be able to respond to.
01:00:30.880 The base instincts are essentially envy and resentment. And you cannot reply to appeals to
01:00:40.960 envy and resentment by merely talking about zoning regulations. You can't. You have to find
01:00:49.940 your own way to appeal to equally deep instincts. And I'll come on to that in a second. But
01:01:00.600 one of the things that's probably on many of your minds, as it is on mine at the moment,
01:01:06.360 is that just as we've seen people drunkenly fall off the horse on the left,
01:01:14.260 so we've seen some people drunkenly fall off the horse on the right.
01:01:19.460 This is something which it's worth lingering over,
01:01:22.780 particularly in this esteemed gathering here tonight,
01:01:26.660 because perhaps the greatest critique that the right has been able to have
01:01:32.660 the american left in recent years is that they haven't been able to keep their extremes away
01:01:38.980 from their center remember that just go back five years what were the most useful things for 1.00
01:01:47.620 republicans that democrats said defund the police what a stupid slogan what a stupid stupid slogan 1.00
01:01:58.740 and the fact that people it really is like it's just such a brain dead um idiotic thing to say 1.00
01:02:06.620 people like kamala harris and others were willing to entertain this to flirt with it to play with 0.99
01:02:14.320 it to pander to it was catastrophic for the democrats at the ballot box every one of the
01:02:22.900 slogans every one of the things the deranged things that the left did in recent years
01:02:27.660 was incredibly advantageous to Republicans.
01:02:32.020 What greater gift did the Republican Party have in recent years than the Squad?
01:02:39.540 Donald Trump couldn't have hoped for a better group of critics than the Squad.
01:02:46.800 And the fact that the Democratic Party seemed incapable of distancing itself
01:02:52.500 indeed became completely wrapped up with the most extreme bits of their own side.
01:02:58.780 They got wrapped up with the people who believe that none of us are born with any genitalia that's discernible.
01:03:10.760 Doctors just sort of guess it.
01:03:15.340 A bigoted nurse decides it's a boy or a girl.
01:03:22.500 This stuff was devastating for the political left.
01:03:28.500 Well, I would say we now on the political right have things that are equally potentially devastating.
01:03:36.500 The most potentially devastating one we have at the moment is something which people in this room have been close to, I've been close to.
01:03:47.500 There are individuals, some of whom were friends, some of whom may be able to remain friends
01:03:53.080 at some point or be friends again, but we have people on our own side who are playing
01:03:58.680 with things that are utterly disastrous for the conservative cause. 1.00
01:04:03.940 The most obvious one, the most obvious one, the stupidest one, so stupid that again I 1.00
01:04:09.460 can't believe it hasn't been somehow mandated by the Democrat Party's headquarters is the 1.00
01:04:16.880 fact that prominent conservative commentators and podcasters would be playing with the most
01:04:23.440 evil viruses of the 20th century. Nothing is more delegitimizing for the conservative side
01:04:33.600 than to have people who claim to be on the conservative side playing footsie with Nazis 0.93
01:04:40.000 and anti-Semites and racists.
01:04:50.140 Nothing can be more destructive for our side 0.98
01:04:54.040 than people like Tucker Carlson
01:04:57.140 who give the most virulent,
01:05:00.080 hard-edged attack interview they possibly can
01:05:03.220 to Senator Ted Cruz
01:05:04.960 and then play the fluffer to Nick Fuentes.
01:05:10.000 If the political right doesn't address this and say,
01:05:18.800 you can say what you want,
01:05:20.500 but it doesn't mean that we have to regard you as an ally,
01:05:25.100 then we are in real trouble.
01:05:27.560 You know, I've noticed since I've moved to America
01:05:30.600 that something I said would happen some years ago has been happening,
01:05:33.620 which is in the moral vacuum, the moral disaster of the last 20 years, there were several things
01:05:41.400 that stand out. One is that after the 2008 financial crash, it was not inevitable that
01:05:46.980 if young people couldn't accumulate capital that they would become capitalists. We have to address
01:05:52.660 that problem. But it also seemed to me that into the religious vacuum that had emerged in recent
01:06:00.280 decades things would tread now we saw the left they had the gender ideology the sexual ideology
01:06:10.280 the race and all of that and for a time for them going around and waving banners every saturday and
01:06:20.280 so on provided them with meaning it was also inevitable that the right would have to address
01:06:26.520 this hole, this vacuum as well. And some people have, but some of the people who've trodden into
01:06:35.240 that have done so in an incredibly ill-advised way, partly because they have not listened to
01:06:40.520 good mentors like Dennis Prager has been to so many. They have fallen into clerical attitudes,
01:06:48.520 attitudes, very far-right-wing Catholic attitudes, very ill-informed, in which they seem to think,
01:06:57.280 for instance, I am not kidding or exaggerating when I say this, that they would effectively
01:07:02.420 like to have, for instance, Catholic clerical law in the United States in the 21st century.
01:07:09.100 I said to one of the advocates of this a little while ago, you know, I'm not in favor of that,
01:07:16.940 Partly because, although I wasn't alive in Europe in the 16th century, I did hear about it.
01:07:26.800 And, by the way, for those who are Catholics who think that in any way a Christian America would accept Catholic cardinal law, 0.62
01:07:33.580 they ought to realize that they themselves would be a religious minority in such a state and would be hanged from the lampposts by the Protestants. 0.77
01:07:41.500 This is, to put it mildly, unbelievably frivolous but also dangerous stuff to be playing with. 0.99
01:07:50.500 Johnny, thank you so much for the super chat and for the kind words.
01:07:55.500 I'm glad you're enjoying my daily livestream.
01:08:00.500 When the Heritage Foundation had its town hall the other day,
01:08:04.500 other day, a young woman said to Kevin Roberts that she was opposed to what she called Christian
01:08:11.440 Zionism because she said she regards it as a heresy. Who told her it was a heresy? Tucker Carlson
01:08:19.100 told her it was a heresy. I can tell her some other heresies, and I could list off many more than she
01:08:24.580 can in her short time in the Catholic faith. I could talk to her about, for instance, the fact
01:08:31.360 that Pope John VI said many decades ago
01:08:35.400 that the relationship between the Jewish people
01:08:39.240 and the Christian people
01:08:40.440 was absolutely central to the future
01:08:43.340 of Christianity as well as Judaism.
01:08:46.260 I could point her to the works of Joseph Ratzinger
01:08:48.860 or the vital and significant work
01:08:52.400 that Pope John Paul II did
01:08:55.020 for Christian-Jewish relations.
01:08:58.260 I really hope that young people like that
01:09:00.740 don't go through what the continent I'm from went through for centuries. There's a reason
01:09:08.580 why Queen Elizabeth I said one of the most important things about religion that anyone
01:09:15.060 has said when she said, I do not make windows into men's souls. Those people from the American 0.99
01:09:25.060 right who really do wish to open windows into men's souls and judge other Americans by these
01:09:31.620 standards should just consider what will happen if it comes to them, and I would place one on the
01:09:37.380 table straight away. Some of these people on the new American right like to blame the Jewish people
01:09:44.260 for the fact that, for instance, there are prominent Jews in various positions who say things they
01:09:48.820 disagree with. They often point to the fact, which is a fact, that many open borders organizations
01:09:56.500 are dominated by prominent liberal Jews. That's absolutely true, and there's not one of those 0.99
01:10:03.620 organizations that I haven't criticized. However, these people who like to say that as a result
01:10:10.580 Jews should be held responsible for open borders policies might take this little warning from this
01:10:17.940 non-catholic from britain the most prominent open borders advocate in um just wanted to say 0.95
01:10:27.460 uh dates dates um i saw your your super chat um i responded to you send me a message on x and i
01:10:37.300 will follow up with you there my dms are open um in x thank you in recent years has been the pope
01:10:45.140 Okay? Not just this pope, but his predecessors. The people of the island of Lampedusa in Italy,
01:10:53.460 where I was when I was writing my book The Strange Death of Europe, are fed up with popes
01:10:57.780 coming to Lampedusa expressing sympathy for migrants and none for the people who live on
01:11:02.020 Lampedusa. But here's the thing. Do you want us, who are not Catholics, to blame Catholics in
01:11:09.540 in America for your liberal open borders popes?
01:11:12.920 I hope not.
01:11:14.420 You wouldn't like it if we did,
01:11:16.460 so don't do it to the Jews.
01:11:26.520 Let me say just a couple of other things.
01:11:29.360 The first is, I said earlier,
01:11:31.240 we have to find things to respond,
01:11:34.280 not just to the right where it's gone wrong,
01:11:37.200 but also, of course, to the left.
01:11:39.980 And by the way, what a great sign it would be in this country
01:11:42.860 if whereas the left can't control its borders politically, socially, hygienically, the right could.
01:11:49.740 What a good thing that would be for the right in this country.
01:11:52.240 But I said that we have to find ways to reply to the deep things.
01:11:57.220 And I believe on these issues, as Dennis Prager and others have said for years,
01:12:02.300 we have all of the best cards.
01:12:05.420 Let me give you one. The left, as I said with Mamdani and others, is focused on the politics
01:12:14.480 of envy and resentment. How do you counter that? I'll give you a couple of examples.
01:12:23.440 One, the greatest example in America of all, aspiration. Aspiration, the knowledge that if
01:12:32.580 If you work hard, you will improve your lot in life
01:12:35.580 and the lot in life of the people you love.
01:12:39.580 If we make this work in America,
01:12:41.580 we can destroy the left's appeal to resentment.
01:12:45.580 Let me give you two others.
01:12:47.580 Gratitude.
01:12:49.580 Gratitude.
01:12:55.580 You know, the people who are currently playing
01:12:58.580 with the darkest aspects against religious freedom
01:13:03.460 should remember the great luck we have here in America.
01:13:10.980 Most countries in the world do not have religious freedom.
01:13:16.720 What did Thomas Jefferson ask to be put on his gravestone?
01:13:21.340 Most of you here will know this,
01:13:23.920 but Mr. Jefferson himself asked on his gravestone to be written
01:13:27.900 that he was the author of the Declaration of Independence,
01:13:33.240 the author of the Statute of Virginia for Religious Freedom,
01:13:37.520 and the father of the University of Virginia,
01:13:41.860 because these were the things he was proudest of,
01:13:45.840 that the Statute on Religious Freedom
01:13:48.600 broke something that had torn Europe apart for years and solved it.
01:13:56.380 These are gifts we have been given in America.
01:14:01.820 Many, many other gifts exist in this land as well.
01:14:07.140 But if we remind people that what we have we are lucky to have,
01:14:12.960 and not just random luck, but because it has been given to us
01:14:17.240 by people who thought and judged wisely.
01:14:21.300 And that is why we're here.
01:14:25.420 Finally, I wanted to say, the other thing on the side of the American right and conservatives
01:14:36.100 is the significance of the individual.
01:14:40.320 The left talks in grandiose terms, but also non-human terms.
01:14:47.340 It talks about class struggle.
01:14:49.860 talks about economics. It talks about all its vaguely Marxist or watered-down Marxist views
01:14:57.620 of how society works. But what they cannot account for ever is the individual. And you might say,
01:15:06.580 well, the great man, the great woman theory of history, that's so dated. No, it isn't.
01:15:12.420 That is a deliberately deracinating and demoralizing line of the left, to pretend that
01:15:19.060 individuals don't make the course of history, they do. And it's not just that the course of history
01:15:28.500 is made by presidents, by kings, senators, even some congressmen. It is that it is made by every
01:15:40.420 individual, including those in this room. Let me finish by citing something that has been much on
01:15:48.100 my mind in the last few days. Some years ago, I did an interview, a video for PragerU in the
01:15:57.460 great book series that Michael Knowles was doing. You know Michael Knowles, he's very shoddy looking,
01:16:04.020 badly dressed guy, deeply in need of a tailor. The wonderful Michael Knowles, Dennis's suggestion,
01:16:15.260 decided to do a set of interviews with people about great books.
01:16:19.600 It's a wonderful series.
01:16:21.140 I hope that many of you will know it.
01:16:23.920 As with so many of the Preview videos, it's gone so far and so wide.
01:16:29.020 And Michael asked which great book I wanted to do.
01:16:32.480 And I said to him, I'd like to do, I said, this is a bit of a cheat.
01:16:37.100 But I'd like to do King Lear, which is, of course, a play, not a book.
01:16:41.600 But it's published in a book form.
01:16:43.080 So I thought I could get away with it.
01:16:45.260 There's something in that that I mentioned to Michael during that interview, which I'd
01:16:50.140 like to finish with by sharing with you here tonight.
01:16:55.840 At the midnight of the play, something extraordinary happens.
01:17:00.880 Gloucester, one of the few good people in the play, is going to be blinded.
01:17:08.480 eyes used to be torn out by two of his enemies, one of Lear's daughters and her husband.
01:17:16.720 And whenever I think about King Lear, I always think about this scene, but I also think of
01:17:20.960 something that one of the great Christians of the 20th century, C.S. Lewis, said about this play,
01:17:28.160 and I wanted to share it with you. He asks how we as humans can act in the world,
01:17:34.480 And he asks it by going to this scene, Act 3, Scene 7 of King Lear.
01:17:40.900 I hesitate talking about any play in the presence of a great actor like John Voight,
01:17:46.120 but allow me to get away with it.
01:17:54.720 This is what C.S. Lewis says about our position in life.
01:17:57.940 He says, we are not the playwright.
01:18:00.220 We are not the producer.
01:18:01.860 We are not even the audience.
01:18:04.480 we are on the stage. To play well the scenes in which we are on concerns us much more than to
01:18:14.020 guess about the scenes that follow. In King Lear, Act 3, Scene 7, he says, there is a man who is such
01:18:23.060 a minor character that Shakespeare has not even given him a name. He is merely first servant.
01:18:31.060 all the characters around him regan cornwall and edmund have fine long-term plans they think they
01:18:41.600 know how the story is going to end and they are quite wrong the servant has no such delusions
01:18:51.260 he has no notion how the play is going to go but he understands the present scene
01:18:59.220 He sees an abomination, the blinding of Gloucester, and it's taking place, and he will not stand
01:19:09.840 it. His sword is out and pointed at his master's breast in a moment, then Regan stabs him dead
01:19:17.880 from behind. That is his whole part. Not even eight lines, all told. But if it were real 0.89
01:19:30.140 life and not a play, that is the part it would have been best to have acted. We don't know
01:19:41.640 which scene in the play we're in. We don't even know if it's a comedy or a tragedy.
01:19:47.880 some combination of both.
01:19:50.520 The one thing we do have a say in,
01:19:53.600 as Dennis Prager has shown,
01:19:56.700 as some remarkable people in this room continue to show,
01:20:00.240 and as Dennis continues to show,
01:20:01.860 the one thing we can choose
01:20:04.500 is to act the best we can
01:20:08.540 in the times we find ourselves in.
01:20:12.680 So thank you.
01:20:13.800 wow that was um i really enjoyed that um
01:20:26.440 i wish more people would listen to what he has to say because um i mean he he's been speaking about
01:20:35.320 this topic for quite a while and he sees the patterns like many other people um he sees the
01:20:45.640 patterns excuse me um you know he's seen what's happened to other countries you know like my 0.98
01:20:55.160 country of iran um used to be a normal country and then of course it was taken over by islamic
01:21:02.760 radicals in 1979. And, you know, that didn't happen overnight, guys. It didn't happen 0.83
01:21:08.520 overnight. The sort of anti-imperialist, anti-Iran sentiments within Iran, it took about
01:21:21.060 40 years for the communists and the Islamists to get strong enough to be able to do what they did
01:21:29.820 in 1979. And, you know, the vast majority of Iranians didn't take them seriously, 0.71
01:21:37.760 never thought that they would be able to take over the country. And then by the time 1.00
01:21:42.920 that they did, it was too late for everyone else. So, you know, I just wish more people would
01:21:51.780 pay attention to his warnings. And, you know, he knows the Iran situation very well. I've
01:21:58.440 actually spoken to him precisely about Iran and Iranians and what we have been going through and
01:22:06.900 what we are fighting for. And, you know, my warning as an Iranian to everyone else is fight
01:22:13.860 back before it's too late. Preserve your country. Preserve your culture. Don't let them take your 0.98
01:22:20.020 flags don't let them take your identity don't let them ruin your country and your culture in the 0.89
01:22:28.680 name of communism or marxism or dei or islamism or whatever just don't don't allow it um but i
01:22:37.280 want to go to something a little bit more upbeat now because that was uh it was a it was a pretty
01:22:41.760 heavy talk it was very thought thought provoking but a little heavy um the very so i found this
01:22:48.820 video uh and it's it's basically woke people getting destroyed by douglas murray so i figured
01:22:57.180 this would be um a good way to uh you know sort of finish off finish off the the live stream
01:23:04.560 for today because i'm sure we could all use a good laugh uh once in a while so here we go 1.00
01:23:10.840 stupid results of a very stupid idea ideology being rolled out by very stupid people so do be 1.00
01:23:19.080 quiet do stop judging other people and if i were you me judging other people are you joking if i 1.00
01:23:24.940 were you i would do the tiniest bit of research before opening your mouth you're embarrassing
01:23:29.240 yourself that's probably why people wouldn't think you're embarrassing yourself douglas murray is
01:23:33.840 never walking on eggshells which is why there are so many instances of him getting into fiery
01:23:38.540 disputes with woke activists and social justice warriors, Douglas is one of the last people 1.00
01:23:43.680 ready to bend over only so he can pander to the stupidity of the woke mob. 0.99
01:23:48.200 Today we are going to cover a few juicy examples of him wrecking some people with some really 1.00
01:23:52.720 stupid ideas. 0.99
01:23:54.500 Let's get into it, starting with a report of kids identifying as animals inside a classroom 1.00
01:23:58.940 in Britain.
01:24:00.140 This stuff reads like a joke, but it's really not funny when you get into the weeds of it. 1.00
01:24:06.060 is limitless self-identity gone bonkers yeah it's um the very stupid results of a very stupid idea 1.00
01:24:15.660 ideology being rolled out by very stupid people uh basically everything has come unstuck in recent 1.00
01:24:22.780 years by the ever expanding alphabet acronym people starting off strong that was savage 1.00
01:24:30.060 where the fight for gay rights and minority sexual rights turned into this demand this claim
01:24:37.620 that there was no such thing as biological sex as peter tatchell and others well know
01:24:43.900 the argument for gay rights was won by saying we're just like the rest of you it was also won
01:24:49.620 by saying you know we just want to live and let live yet the gender ideologues have done something
01:24:55.300 totally different they've said you don't have the right to have your own say in this absolutely
01:25:01.900 unleashed we are right and you have to agree with us they say we're here and instead of saying we're
01:25:07.960 here we're queer and just get used to it it's we're here and as a result biological reality 0.99
01:25:14.460 doesn't exist well clearly this very very idiotic ideology is causing havoc just today appears 1.00
01:25:22.080 there's another tape from a school in Scotland where some poor boy is having to explain to his 1.00
01:25:27.620 teacher that there's only two biological sexes and that the gender woo-woo stuff is nonsense.
01:25:33.020 And yet again, it's the student having to educate the teacher because the teacher 1.00
01:25:38.020 has been indoctrinated into stupidity due to the gender ideologues. 1.00
01:25:43.200 Look at the expression of the lady on the panel. She can't help but laugh. She probably thought 1.00
01:25:47.880 the story with the boy in scotland was very amusing i'm sure she's a woman full of amazing
01:25:52.520 ideas ready to take on the bigoted mind of douglas head on okay now it's time to listen to her give
01:25:58.760 her explanation on the whole gender debacle let's see it okay avie you're laughing why it's just
01:26:05.320 quite amusing really i mean we're talking about children that are 12 and 13 i mean when i was at
01:26:17.880 I think my internet cut out
01:26:35.640 for a moment there, guys. 0.94
01:26:36.800 um the very stupid my internet cut out i think let me let me do a quick speed test here 0.91
01:26:53.300 i was yeah i was lagging for a bit and then all of a sudden my internet just died 0.95
01:26:59.040 but i think okay it's better now okay yeah that was so weird like my my thing like my my
01:27:07.960 live stream just like started lagging on me um okay i'm back where were we i think we i think
01:27:15.660 we were somewhere here on okay now it's time to listen to her give her explanation on the whole
01:27:22.600 gender debacle. Let's see it. Okay, Ava, you'll... Also, to the person in the chat who asked me if 0.61
01:27:30.340 I receive any payments from the state of Israel, no, I'm still waiting for my paycheck. So if you
01:27:36.640 have any contacts with Mossad, can you let them know that I'm still waiting for my paycheck? Thank
01:27:41.940 you. It's just quite amusing, really. I mean, we're talking about children that are 12 and 13. I mean,
01:27:48.840 And when I was at school, I had a girl who identified as a horse,
01:27:52.220 but not in this sort of, like, problematic way that we're now labelling it.
01:27:54.880 She didn't actually think she was a horse.
01:27:56.300 She was just quite strange and walked around and, you know...
01:27:58.520 But nobody at the school then, no teachers, would have tolerated that
01:28:02.420 in the way that this is now having to be tolerated.
01:28:04.740 No teacher would have tolerated bullying of that child,
01:28:07.300 and that's what this teacher in Sussex has done.
01:28:09.800 They've said it's not acceptable for boys in that class
01:28:12.360 to take the mickey out of someone who's obviously clearly just a child
01:28:15.440 and they're exploring their imagination.
01:28:16.840 Who says they're a cat.
01:28:17.700 Yes, yes, but, Piers, they're 12.
01:28:20.240 And he's actually interfering with the lessons by talking in...
01:28:24.800 Look at Douglas Murray's face. Just look at his expression.
01:28:29.620 He's thinking, like, what the hell am I doing here stuck with these ridiculous people? 0.98
01:28:36.800 Language, including meowing, and if people don't go along with this, refusing to cooperate. 0.98
01:28:41.800 That is not just having a bit of fun being a cat.
01:28:44.340 That is actually assuming the identity of an animal that this person is not,
01:28:49.800 and then insisting everybody else conform to it. 0.97
01:28:53.160 This is beyond ridiculous. 0.93
01:28:55.000 I can't believe we're actually talking about this stuff in this manner. 0.96
01:28:58.300 Nobody cares about what children are doing in a classroom.
01:29:01.200 It's when supposedly abstract thinking adults are taking them seriously
01:29:04.560 and saying they were born the wrong gender.
01:29:06.980 But okay, now watch the madness of what happens next after she says this.
01:29:10.760 That is madness.
01:29:11.560 That's not what's happening.
01:29:12.760 What's happening is there's a child who's slightly more imaginative than their peers
01:29:16.640 and they are acting out this sort of fallacy and that's fine. 0.82
01:29:19.660 But to make it about trans, this is where it gets dangerous, OK?
01:29:23.900 The Telegraph...
01:29:24.480 Oh, it's very damaging to trans people. I agree. 1.00
01:29:26.640 Right, OK.
01:29:27.480 I agree with that.
01:29:28.280 The reason it's most damaging, the Telegraph has been reporting this, 0.91
01:29:30.580 it's up 400% in the last couple of years, them reporting trans issues.
01:29:34.220 I don't understand why they've got this weird obsession with going into trans...
01:29:37.980 Let me explain why. 0.88
01:29:38.940 I love how her speech took a more defensive undertone 0.84
01:29:41.240 because she started to realize just how ridiculous all of this stuff got.
01:29:45.500 Brace yourself for Piers' dramatic reply. 0.98
01:29:47.860 Oh, it's quite gross.
01:29:48.780 Let me explain why. 1.00
01:29:49.720 When you have in women's sport six-foot-four-inch biological males 1.00
01:29:54.300 destroying biological females at elite sport level 0.99
01:29:59.260 in swimming pools, on racetracks, in other sports, 1.00
01:30:03.640 that's when it becomes a full-frontal assault on women. 0.53
01:30:07.400 You know, something that's really dangerous about this whole woke leftist ideology is that this ideology is also enabling all of that Islamist jihadi rhetoric, right, under the guise of multiculturalism and diversity.
01:30:30.580 And because these people are so anti-everything imperialism, anti-West, whatever the case might be, and they have this very skewed perception of colonization or oppressor versus oppressed, 0.64
01:30:50.060 um that has created the the space for the islamist jihadi narrative to come in under the guise of 0.56
01:31:03.800 you know social justice or multiculturalism and diversity and it's the most bizarre thing to me 0.99
01:31:08.700 because all of these gays for gays for gaza or queers for palestine people um they wouldn't last 0.99
01:31:15.660 10 minutes in in gaza and yet they're out there like it's it's just the most bizarre thing um 0.97
01:31:24.480 one of the most bizarre things i've ever seen women's rights to fairness and equality and when 1.00
01:31:29.620 you include them going into dressing rooms and so on and mixing with biological females then 1.00
01:31:34.620 there's a safety issue now listen as piers hammers in the point calling spade a spade when you have
01:31:39.900 we had in scotland a male rapist identifying at his trial as a woman to get put into a woman's
01:31:46.300 prison and being sent there by the female boss of scotland at the time who's now obviously in
01:31:52.140 her own troubles that is why this is this is happening kids are watching all this stuff and
01:31:57.980 as kids do they want a piece of the action oh pierce don't be ridiculous there is nothing
01:32:02.940 there's no similarity between a child wanting to be a cat when they're 12 years old and someone
01:32:07.900 competing in the olympics oh there is there is peter it all started with the question of what
01:32:12.940 is a woman if you believe that kids can be whatever they want then you also believe that
01:32:17.500 adults can be whatever they want and there is a direct link between kids in the classroom
01:32:22.220 and athletes on the field now let's watch douglas give the burning answer to all of that nonsense 0.97
01:32:28.300 if i may first of all ava rather um unfortunately misspoke earlier when she said that the uh school 1.00
01:32:35.420 schoolgirl in question was acting out a fallacy. I think you meant a fantasy. But actually
01:32:40.100 she is acting out a fallacy. A fallacy which has been propagated by gender ideologues and
01:32:51.540 is doing profound damage to gay people among others in our society as well as women. Let
01:32:57.400 me explain very quickly why. I can't quite hear you but I can hear you muttering something.
01:33:03.820 Let me quickly explain why. A poll that just got published in the United States showed that among the general population, support for gay marriage has been starting to decline in the last year. Why is that? It's because the arguments that actually brought about liberal rights for all minorities in the last few decades have started to get turned on their heads.
01:33:25.460 Absolutely spot on. They went to such extreme lengths that they are actually doing more harm to the people they claim to help. 0.96
01:33:31.320 ...and turned against people. What is the source of that? It is the gender ideology movement.
01:33:37.700 What is the tripwire for the general public? It is children. 0.97
01:33:42.440 It is people learning that their children are being taught nonsensical things.
01:33:48.620 It is being seen by the wider public, most of whom are heterosexual and don't need to identify as cis or anything else.
01:33:55.200 It is being seen from that vantage point as the LGBTQIA plus movement losing control of itself. 0.57
01:34:03.520 And so a backlash is starting and the backlash is coming because people are lying to children and are using children for medical experiments. 0.92
01:34:12.360 There's nothing funny about this. There's nothing that should cause levity in that.
01:34:17.440 It should be treated by adults seriously.
01:34:20.220 Medical experiments is indeed the correct terminology to use here. 0.91
01:34:23.780 Considering the fact that 80% of kids that experience gender dysmorphia transition 0.85
01:34:28.180 back to their initial sex later in adulthood,
01:34:31.240 giving them puberty blockers in childhood is nothing short of a great insanity. 0.94
01:34:35.840 I wonder what other important life-changing decisions
01:34:38.220 these activists believe that little children are fit to make at such a young age.
01:34:42.580 Should we also allow them who to marry?
01:34:44.660 Okay, Ava.
01:34:45.620 So Douglas, it's really important actually,
01:34:47.520 all of that point that you've just brought up,
01:34:49.180 it's very on brand for you because you like to stoke fear.
01:34:52.600 You've actually made a career out of it.
01:34:54.620 I'll take you back to your book, The Strange Death of Europe,
01:34:57.240 and you made a big fright.
01:34:58.380 You frightened the entire public about your thoughts on Europe,
01:35:00.960 and we ended up in Brexit.
01:35:01.940 You weren't the sole contributor to that,
01:35:03.800 but you were a big voice in that.
01:35:04.620 Can we stick on to the Ava theme?
01:35:06.060 I will, I will.
01:35:06.680 If I may say so very quickly.
01:35:07.520 Now we're talking about LGBTQ.
01:35:08.700 If I may say so very quickly, peers.
01:35:10.740 Hang on, you spoke, you spoke.
01:35:12.200 I'm speaking.
01:35:12.900 I'm speaking.
01:35:13.660 I'll reply.
01:35:16.040 I'll reply.
01:35:17.440 Let Ava speak, please. 0.99
01:35:19.580 Back on the trans issue,
01:35:20.740 When you're talking about LGBTQ, what you've just done there is basically say that the whole of America,
01:35:25.480 who have historically had a problem with gay marriage, are now turning on it
01:35:28.680 because a couple of children in a classroom in Sussex want to be a cat. 0.98
01:35:32.400 If you can't see the ridiculousness in that argument, I can't help you. 0.68
01:35:35.700 The bigger issue is there is no such thing as gender ideology.
01:35:40.140 We all have gender identities. You identify as a man, and I fully respect you.
01:35:44.780 He's just shaking his head in disapproval. That was funny.
01:35:47.900 Let's skip over to the part where he drops the bomb and gets to respond to those accusations.
01:35:52.740 Very quickly, I don't know, Ava, anything about your career.
01:35:56.760 I don't know if you have one.
01:35:58.860 But you did try to imply that you knew something about mine,
01:36:02.400 and you just showed you know nothing about it,
01:36:04.040 because actually my 2017 bestseller, The Strange Death of Europe, was not about the EU.
01:36:08.900 So you should learn at some point to read more than the title of the book before commenting upon it.
01:36:13.060 It was about, and it was about migration, and it was.
01:36:15.240 But let me very quickly...
01:36:16.280 And how rude are you?
01:36:17.140 How rude are you?
01:36:18.140 How rude are you?
01:36:19.140 Very quickly, very quickly. 0.86
01:36:20.140 You've built a career out of fear-mongering, and you're now importing those evangelical
01:36:23.140 American ideas onto UK television.
01:36:24.140 It's very odd. 0.88
01:36:25.140 You haven't even built a career, have you?
01:36:27.140 You haven't even built a career.
01:36:28.140 What are you talking about?
01:36:29.140 I'm on the same panel as you had, and we're getting the same...
01:36:31.140 You know what?
01:36:32.140 I'm going to wrap it up by saying you've both got wonderful careers, or you wouldn't
01:36:34.740 be on Piers Morgan Uncensored.
01:36:36.620 That was absolutely unleashed.
01:36:38.460 She tried to come back from that burial by saying that she's on the same panel. 0.82
01:36:42.180 But the truth is that Piers brings in lunatics on his show all the time. 0.93
01:36:46.120 they can embarrass themselves on television. It's not any different with her. That was absolutely 0.92
01:36:51.300 brutal by Douglas. She got so irritated by it while he was chilling and calmly spitting the
01:36:56.660 verbal jujitsu. But enough of this. Let's move on to another incident where Douglas got to confront
01:37:02.760 a woke activist that's trying to argue why it should be acceptable to cancel people for the
01:37:07.520 things they say. Starting off with her speech first. Here, Silvana, the woke activist, was 1.00
01:37:12.980 telling a story about how a bunch of far-right peeps in her country managed to get away with
01:37:17.460 some violence they have committed. And then she said this. Two people are in custody at the moment
01:37:22.980 relating to this incident. That's two out of the 60. And it means to me that 58 people were very
01:37:29.840 much, very much free to express themselves, even in the most aggressive and detrimental way possible
01:37:36.640 without any ramifications.
01:37:39.640 In fact, the irony is that the mere reason my friends, party members and comrades
01:37:44.720 were so brutally attacked in the first place
01:37:46.480 is because of exercising their right to the freedom of speech
01:37:50.720 by claiming that Black Pete is a racist caricature character.
01:37:55.780 So I beg to differ that so-called political correctness or wokeness
01:37:59.560 results in less free speech.
01:38:02.480 I can safely say from my own personal experience
01:38:05.020 that it seems to me that more can be said by some rather than, as well as less by others.
01:38:12.620 Okay, so she related a part of her experience as a way of minimizing the cries of people
01:38:16.780 complaining about the extremism of cancel culture.
01:38:20.040 Let's see how Douglas is going to address all of this.
01:38:22.320 I'm looking forward to discussing this.
01:38:23.700 I've been thinking about this subject for a long time.
01:38:27.040 And as was just mentioned, I wrote a book that just came out in English, German,
01:38:31.620 I think it's about to come out in French and other languages,
01:38:33.380 called the madness of crowds which is an attempt to try to think about some of
01:38:38.060 these things that are going on some of the what I describe as crowd madness is
01:38:44.000 that particularly online world encourages where very often we cancel
01:38:51.320 people destroy people for saying something that everyone thought until
01:38:55.140 24 hours ago and we're making up and evolving a lot of our ethics and I'd say
01:39:03.080 metaphysics as we go along and it's very confusing very confusing especially for those people that
01:39:10.040 were the ones orchestrating the canceling and ended up being cancelled too later on however
01:39:15.320 i think we can identify certain trends that are going on and one of them is that there are a set
01:39:22.440 of what i describe as tripwire issues which any journalist citizen absolutely anybody if they just
01:39:32.200 nick one of these tripwires with their foot can find causes total career implosion
01:39:40.760 they broadly speaking there there are a few others but i say they go come down roughly to
01:39:47.720 gay everything to do with women particularly relations between sexes everything to do with
01:39:53.960 race and absolutely everything to do with trans so i decided to do a chapter on each
01:40:00.680 in my latest book to try to say what are the discussions we perhaps ought to be having and
01:40:05.000 the ones that we're not having and this is what the social justice warrior gleefully glossed over
01:40:09.880 she tried to say that political correctness can provide more free speech for those that are afraid 1.00
01:40:14.600 to speak up because they are marginalized while completely ignoring the toxic environment this
01:40:19.640 will create for the majority of people which douglas excellently pointed out when you prioritize
01:40:24.760 the feelings of the minority like this you sadistically sacrifice the rights of the majority
01:40:29.960 but let's give her a chance to make another point and then we'll listen to douglas respond
01:40:34.600 because you see it's not that it is no longer allowed to say what you want to say
01:40:41.720 it's about being held accountable for what one says taking responsibility for the words
01:40:47.320 the language that one uses. One has to be aware that words are not neutral, that
01:40:54.880 they have histories and connotations and one just cannot ignore that. Words have
01:41:00.640 power and they can reinforce systems of inequality and suppression. Thus you can
01:41:09.220 still use these words, you can still be free to speak, yet you need to be aware 0.91
01:41:14.240 of what you're saying and um that if your words are racist sexist homophobic transphobic 0.99
01:41:26.100 well somebody might just call you a racist a sexist a homophobe or a transphobe she said 0.96
01:41:33.820 it's not about tackling free speech it's about taking responsibility for what one has to say
01:41:39.040 um and what does that responsibility specifically look like hopefully you are not insinuating that
01:41:46.620 people should lose their jobs over what they said on facebook with their friends even so initially
01:41:52.140 there was still a noble cause behind this type of extremism that we see today here's douglas
01:41:57.400 recognizing that so what is it that's going on well let me as it were do the opposite of of of
01:42:03.780 straw manning and try to steel man this because this is something i also happen to agree with
01:42:09.020 it seems that one of the things we're trying to do is a very noble aspiration
01:42:16.100 and it's something like this we're trying to come to a position where
01:42:24.160 somebody with a competency indeed anybody with a competency in a
01:42:28.840 particular area is never held back from achieving what they could achieve because
01:42:35.240 of some characteristic. So no young girl growing up anywhere thinks they can't be something
01:42:43.160 because they're a girl. Nobody who's LGBT thinks they can't get anywhere because of
01:42:49.680 their sexuality. And nobody, whatever their skin color, is held back from anywhere because
01:42:55.480 of their skin color.
01:42:56.800 The time where it was only about that is long gone.
01:43:00.500 seems to be almost agreed upon, I put it out there as I say, it's one that almost across
01:43:06.480 political sides, you could say, is a common aspiration. The problem that I try to identify
01:43:13.100 and go into, among other things, is what if we're, in trying to achieve that, doing something
01:43:19.920 that's making things an awful lot worse? Now, it is, as you all know, incredibly unwise
01:43:27.480 for any man to talk about women so i'm going to completely duck that one today um it's extremely
01:43:35.880 unwise to talk about race if you have my skin color so i'm also going to duck that one and let
01:43:42.120 me today just focus on the one scrampon that i you know what he makes a very good point there um
01:43:49.560 pretty much everyone can talk about racism or maybe how they've experienced racism
01:43:55.800 except for white people and this this rhetoric on the left has gone so far to the left that
01:44:04.660 some of them actually believe that white people can't experience racism and you know white people
01:44:11.700 are are always the oppressors white people are always the colonizers um and that's why there's 0.81
01:44:18.660 also a very deliberate um there's a very deliberate push by the islamists and you know 0.85
01:44:27.020 the marxists or whoever to um to try and portray jewish people as being all white you know like
01:44:36.580 they say um jewish people are white they belong in europe you know saying things like that
01:44:41.380 Because that fits in with the very, very anti-white racist rhetoric that they have already created, even though we know for a fact that many, many Jews are not white.
01:44:56.820 Like, you know, I've been to Israel.
01:44:58.780 Jews come in, you know, every shape and color, you know, just like Iranians, all shapes and colors.
01:45:05.140 But yet one of the reasons that that false narrative is pushed about Jewish people is, again, to try and constrain them and to limit their ability to talk about how, in fact, the Jewish people are indigenous to the land and how they are the ones who have been colonized,
01:45:31.140 colonized just like the rest of us in the middle east have been colonized right but yet um this is
01:45:37.500 how they try to reverse the narrative um when it comes to jewish people is by portraying them all
01:45:43.740 as white even though that's not true at all we have on the edifice of social justice which is
01:45:50.660 the g bit in lgbt and i'm going to treat myself to showing you an example of what i think is going 0.60
01:45:59.840 on which is very unwise absolutely spot on that single line has decimated her whole argument
01:46:06.240 what if by trying to help the minorities through hurting the majority you are actually making
01:46:10.800 things worse for everybody let's see the examples douglas has to give here one day later and the
01:46:17.440 bbc's front page of the news website had as one of its lead stories that day the news that a minor
01:46:23.920 reality television star in Britain called Ollie Locke had announced that he
01:46:28.900 and his fiancee Gareth Locke were going to join their surnames to become the
01:46:33.280 Locke Locke's after their forthcoming nuptials
01:46:53.920 My connection just died on me again.
01:46:57.580 I don't know if it's my laptop or if it's my connection here.
01:47:08.280 All right.
01:47:11.240 I brought it back.
01:47:12.320 The news website had as one of its lead stories that day,
01:47:16.340 the news that a minor reality television star in Britain called Olly Locke
01:47:20.760 had announced that he and his fiancée, Gareth Locke,
01:47:24.680 were going to join their surnames to become the Locke-Locks
01:47:27.520 after their forthcoming nuptials.
01:47:32.000 Underneath that was the headline that the death toll in Indonesia
01:47:35.180 had risen significantly overnight.
01:47:39.560 The New York Times, on 16th October 2017,
01:47:44.860 this is the international edition of the New York Times,
01:47:47.580 the business section leads with a two-page story
01:47:50.580 headlined gay in Japan and no longer invisible and it relays the story of a Japanese businessman
01:47:58.020 who had come out in his office in Tokyo and nobody had any problem with it now just watch
01:48:05.920 what happens next and what's more as the story went on to say Japan isn't a very homophobic
01:48:11.300 society so this was man comes out in not very homophobic country and nobody cares
01:48:18.780 But that was the two pages of lead news story in the New York Times.
01:48:23.420 If you turned to the culture section in the New York Times that day,
01:48:27.060 there was a picture of two men dancing,
01:48:30.580 and it was the news that the New York City Ballet
01:48:33.560 had decided to turn one of the female roles into a male role
01:48:38.120 so that two men were dancing together.
01:48:40.060 And they had a massive news story about what an incredible breakthrough this was
01:48:43.340 in the obviously previously very virulently heterosexual world of ballet.
01:48:47.940 So, but for some reason we have fallen, and we can get into why perhaps, into this very
01:48:58.140 strange fragmented view of society, which fragments along these very specific lines.
01:49:04.700 Stellar observation and some great food for thought served to these insistent social justice
01:49:09.360 activists.
01:49:10.380 The big takeaway from Douglas here is the following question. 1.00
01:49:13.320 If you continue to shove all of this gayness down people's throats, what are the chances 1.00
01:49:18.400 that they are going to get even more repulsed by it? 1.00
01:49:21.120 I'm not going to pretend like I have the perfect alternative solution, but it's just
01:49:25.240 something that the activists need to put to good thought, because as we've seen in the
01:49:29.340 beginning, this continuous propagation has damaged the public's impression of gays as
01:49:34.060 a whole.
01:49:34.820 Okay, now let's move on to Douglas confronting a woke teenager activist on the attraction
01:49:39.520 to fat people.
01:49:43.320 Yeah, exactly.
01:49:49.540 Well, joining me now is comedian James Byrne,
01:49:51.080 best-selling author of The Madness of Crowds, Douglas Murray.
01:49:54.100 Well, Douglas, let me start with you.
01:49:56.140 I don't get this Sam Smith thing.
01:49:58.080 It just seems like every week he deliberately...
01:50:01.100 They. 1.00
01:50:01.580 I'm sorry, they, even though there's only one. 0.98
01:50:04.120 There's only one of them.
01:50:05.840 Why is Sam Smith they?
01:50:07.600 No, please do address Douglas first,
01:50:09.300 but I just need to correct you a few minutes, Jen.
01:50:11.280 That's how they identify the false fears.
01:50:13.320 Why is one person they?
01:50:14.800 Because that's how they identify.
01:50:15.840 Why have I got to go along with it?
01:50:17.100 Because they've asked you to.
01:50:18.420 So what? No one's asked me to.
01:50:19.840 Even the Pope respects people's pronouns now.
01:50:21.880 I don't have to respect anybody's pronouns. 0.61
01:50:23.540 Well, that's fine as long as that's your decision.
01:50:25.100 My pronoun is hottest man in the world.
01:50:27.160 Yeah, well, I'm happy to call you that.
01:50:28.280 Well, go on then.
01:50:28.800 Some may disagree, but yeah, if that's what you are,
01:50:31.200 then cool, I will address you as the hottest man in the world.
01:50:33.160 Throughout the entire interview.
01:50:33.920 Throughout the entire interview.
01:50:34.760 Okay, let's stick to that.
01:50:35.800 Epic Own. Let's move on from that cringe.
01:50:38.260 Douglas, let's come back to you.
01:50:39.700 You don't have to call me the hottest man in the world,
01:50:41.400 even if you're thinking it um sam smith to me he's just on an ever deteriorating campaign to be
01:50:49.020 as vulgar and offensive as he possibly can am i missing something he's doing what pop stars have
01:50:55.540 done for decades which is trying to shock as a means to get publicity and of course it's pretty
01:51:00.700 successful i mean we're talking about him at the moment uh but it's it's striking that it's sort of
01:51:04.960 very unoriginal. I mean, all the stuff he's doing, the sort of over-sexualized stuff,
01:51:10.980 the sort of satanic stuff. Madonna did this 40 years ago. You know, pop stars have done this
01:51:18.460 and more for decades now. I think the only thing that Sam Smith has got sort of going for him on
01:51:24.200 this and the thing actually is making people notice him on this is that, first of all,
01:51:29.180 He keeps sort of throwing these bollards in the way of everyone by changing his alleged gender all the time.
01:51:35.960 He gets marketing, doesn't he? Appeal to the old tricks and mix it up with what's popular now. 0.86
01:51:40.820 Gotta appreciate the grind. The fatness especially helped his cause.
01:51:44.860 He wouldn't have gotten nearly as much publicity if his meats weren't spilling out everywhere.
01:51:49.260 And they say that the skinny people are the privileged ones in society. Yeah, surely.
01:51:53.320 he came he came out many years ago as gay and then he said he was actually
01:52:01.360 genderqueer and then he said he was non-binary and he said he didn't know
01:52:05.140 what it meant of course he didn't because there's no such thing but he he
01:52:08.620 said that they were going to he said that he thought that he was genderqueer
01:52:12.100 he didn't know what it meant but he said that he would explain it someday when he
01:52:15.160 did know and I thought sort of think if you're gonna make everyone else distort
01:52:18.040 the language you should know what you're talking about first so he does that to
01:52:21.980 get publicity obviously and the other thing he does is he does this sort of you know like taking
01:52:28.240 all these clothes off stuff and the thing that makes it different from other people is that when
01:52:32.800 oh I don't know Justin Timberlake or Rihanna or someone stripped down they do so because they look
01:52:38.660 good like their bodies look good Sam Smith is like pudgy and very ugly and so people look at it 0.93
01:52:45.400 and he looks ridiculous and the problem is is that he's saying don't ridicule me but it's hard 0.97
01:52:51.160 not to ridicule people when they present this right now watch the following part where he 0.97
01:52:55.640 comes clashing with the blonde guy don't seriously think what we're looking at here is actually
01:53:00.440 anything other than ridiculous no i think it's absolutely fantastic really yeah i do i think
01:53:05.000 it's brilliant i think it's sexy sexy do you think that's sexy that is and i that's someone 0.97
01:53:09.640 exploring you think what we're looking at right now is sexy yes i do seriously would you shag it 0.99
01:53:15.640 would i shag it did you say well there's a question yeah absolutely i would have sex 1.00
01:53:20.840 with them. Really? Thank you for asking. Would you, Douglas? Because it sounds like you're a little 1.00
01:53:24.940 bit too obsessed with them, if I'm honest with you. No, no, no. I can assure you I'm not. I know
01:53:29.360 what I like, and I don't like fat, blubbery show-offs who look hideous, dressed in lacy pants 0.99
01:53:35.680 with their fat spilling out everywhere and doing it in front of as many people as possible to gain 0.99
01:53:40.620 attention. I just don't find that sexy. I'm old-fashioned. James? Why on earth are you friends 0.62
01:53:46.020 with Piers Morgan. You'll notice, of course, that Piers hasn't appeared on this show naked
01:53:53.700 with nipple tassels on. Douglas's overly exaggerated smile is so hilarious here. But let's move
01:53:59.900 over to the most culminating part of this whole debacle. And once again, if you act
01:54:04.520 in a vulgar way, you should expect people to be vulgar about you. I think that's the
01:54:07.820 point. If you're going to do what he does, it's a bit like Madonna, you know, when she
01:54:10.720 says stop objectifying. What else are we supposed to do with Madonna? All she ever does is demand
01:54:15.540 be objectified you know what you're both cis white straight men you can carry on i'm not a
01:54:19.620 cis anything right i'm sorry i don't even know what you just say is look it's what did you just 0.60
01:54:25.060 say you just want to both be when i was born what did you just say i was a cis what is a
01:54:28.980 now watch what's about to happen next everybody take cover
01:54:58.980 I think you said we're both cis, white, straight men.
01:55:01.580 First of all, I am white.
01:55:03.760 Secondly, I am a man.
01:55:05.660 Thirdly, I've been out and gay my entire adult life,
01:55:08.500 which is about 25 years now.
01:55:09.860 I don't know how old you are.
01:55:10.860 Shame on you for not supporting the community, Douglas. 0.99
01:55:13.120 I was out as gay when you were still prancing around 0.84
01:55:16.240 talking about whether or not you were. 0.99
01:55:18.120 So do be quiet.
01:55:19.600 Do stop judging other people.
01:55:21.480 And if I were you...
01:55:22.420 Me judging other people?
01:55:23.340 Are you joking? 0.99
01:55:24.280 Oh, my God, Douglas, that's ridiculous. 0.98
01:55:27.100 I'm not the one judging other people here. 0.99
01:55:28.980 I'm just pointing out facts.
01:55:30.100 I'm sorry I got your sexuality wrong.
01:55:31.800 No, if I were you, I would do the tiniest bit of research 0.76
01:55:34.840 before opening your mouth. 0.95
01:55:36.420 You're embarrassing yourself.
01:55:37.740 That's probably why people wouldn't want to come to your show.
01:55:39.560 I don't think so. I think you're embarrassing yourself.
01:55:40.660 Gentlemen, you're a shame to the queer community. 1.00
01:55:42.080 You know what? I'll tell you who's really embarrassing themselves. 1.00
01:55:44.320 I'm not a member of the queer community, you stupid sod. 1.00
01:55:47.540 I'm not a member of the queer community. 1.00
01:55:49.680 The person who ultimately is genuinely embarrassing himself,
01:55:53.380 herself, themself, whatever, is Sam Smith.
01:55:56.440 On that note, we'll leave it.
01:55:58.080 that was epic no one can pull it off quite the way douglas does okay the the weird ai voiceover
01:56:04.320 caption is weird but that was interesting so there you go there's a little more on douglas
01:56:09.440 murray for those of you who are not familiar with him um i'm definitely going to feature
01:56:14.000 more videos and clips from from him in the future but i think i'm you know unlike the other ones
01:56:19.440 where i just kind of pick something and then we watch them together i'll probably have to watch
01:56:24.080 his videos in advance because he does have a different style of speaking. He speaks a little
01:56:30.760 bit more slowly. And, you know, for a live stream podcast where, you know, we're talking and going
01:56:37.740 back and forth, and there's a lot of live reactions, it could be a little too slow paced
01:56:43.180 there. But I definitely look forward to featuring more of Douglas Murray. I just want to thank you
01:56:50.780 guys all for joining me. For the members, I know I said I'm going to start doing members only live
01:56:57.480 chats. I can't do a members only live chat today just because I do have an appointment and I have
01:57:04.840 to get ready and go. Yes, I do have a life outside of YouTube and live streaming, but I will be doing
01:57:13.560 members only live streams. I'll do one tomorrow for sure. And for those of you who are not
01:57:20.320 members and are watching me on YouTube. I am starting sort of members only live stream. So
01:57:26.720 after I do my daily show, I'm then going to start another live stream, but that's for the paid
01:57:33.980 channel members only. And that's where we can talk about the issues of the day. I can bounce ideas
01:57:38.540 back and forth with you guys. I can get your thought, your input, your feedback. And yeah,
01:57:44.400 so if you're interested, you're more than welcome to become a channel member and get involved in
01:57:49.960 that way as well. All right. Thank you everyone for joining. I will see you all later tonight
01:57:55.200 for the evening, um, live stream. And until then, uh, Poyande Iran and Javid Shah.
01:58:19.960 Thank you.
01:58:49.960 Thank you.
01:59:19.960 .